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A54202 Reason against railing, and truth against fiction being an answer to those two late pamphlets intituled A dialogue between a Christian and a Quaker, and the Continuation of the dialogue &c. by one Thomas Hicks, an Anabaptist teacher : by W. Penn. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1673 (1673) Wing P1351; ESTC R25209 131,073 243

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we affirm viz. 1st That Jesus Christ in the Flesh was more th●● a meet Exemple of Holiness 2dly And his Blood was of peculiar Value and Estimation with God Thomas Hicks Proceeds in his Envy and Falshood sti●●●● bring our Sufferings into Dis-esteem viz. 〈…〉 People that ever boasted so vainly of their Sufferings 〈◊〉 you do that scarce a Pamphlet can come out from yo● 〈◊〉 but the World must hear of your Brags of this kind Contin p. 6. A manifest and two-fold Falshood for 1st We do not vainly boast of our Sufferings but have rej●yced in Christ Jesus that we have been counted worthy to suffer for his Name when you who now enjoy our Prosperity durst not shew your Heads in publick for your Profession or Worship but fled into Corners and Obscurities and your publick Meetings were deserted and put by For thy part T.H. I do not think thou hast much Suffering for Conscience or any for Christ to boast of 2. Scarce a Pamphlet Is also false for many of our Bookes and Papers relate not our Sufferings but other Subjects much less vainly boast or brag thereof But it seems that it both judges and vexes thee and such Creeping Envious Spirits to hear of our deep Sufferings since they have had such a blessed Effect in the Nation as the inclining the Hearts of many to the Living Truth and the Increase of our Number in it Thou T.H. and such Envious Spirits are most quiet towards us when you see us under Persecution and appear most outragious against us when we have Liberty as if you were discontented and perplexed at our Liberties and as desirous of Persecution and Ruin upon us 3. I am not sorry that I was made Instrumental in obtaining the Liberty of some of thy Brethren the Baptists out of Prison the last Som●er who among a great Number of our Friends were released though I am but sorrily and badly requited by thee but thou art one of them who art more ready to persecute and scandalize our Sufferings then to suffer or sympathize with them that suffer for Conscience sake but have not some of thy Brethren both commended of our Sufferings and the Service thereof both to themselves and other Dissenters why then dost thou insinuate as if Carnal Interest Wills and Lusts were our chief Motive to suffer God and his Witness in many Consciences will judge thee for this gross Abuse Again T.H. did most falsly insinuate though by way of Query That our Sufferings were only to satisfie our Wills and Lusts and for Carnal Advantage which to excuse he now saith In this I only queried what it should be that doth influence you to suffer forasmuch as you deny that this Body shall rise And G.F. maintains that the Soul is part of God's Being Contin p. 6. 1. To the first I answer that every Seed shall have its own Body as it pleaseth God and every Man shall be reserved spiritually in his own proper Being though not in the gross fleshly Form Is this either to deny the Resurrection or an Eternal Advantage 2. To the second G.F. doth not so speak of the Soul or Spirit of Man nor are his Words directly and truly cited but of the Immediate Inspiration of God or original Life or Soul of Man's Soul by which Man became Living a Living Soul in this he queries Is not that of God which came out from God 3. It s an absurd and most abusive Insinuation that our Sufferings either were or could be for any carnal Advantage or Interest seeing we freely have often offered up our Lives and our All in this World therein 4. It s still a manifest Slander that we deny any Eternal Advantage to Persons after Death neither is it any much less direct Consequence of our saying Not that Body which thou sowest shall be and Flesh and Blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God or That the Body which God giveth shall not be in a Fleshly but in a Spiritual Form as Tho. Collier confesseth dare he say this is to deny any Eternal Advantage But with T.H. This is no more then the Genuine and a direct Consequence of denying the Resurrection of this Body Is it not then the reaping Eternal Advantage must be placed upon this Earthly Tabernacle or Carnal Body though it must be dissolved and no New one to be created according to his former Doctrine Dial. p. 58. O wonderful Philosophy Eternal Advantage placed upon these same Earthly Bodies yet they not to be renewed by Creation after dissolved and turned to Dust and how contrary to the Apostles Testimony is his so much placing Eternal Advantage upon this Earthly disolvable Body see the 2. Cor. 5 1 2 8. Phil. 1.21.23 Our experiencing Christ's second Appearance without Sin unto Salvation in Answer to our Hope and testifying to Eternal Life and Felicity as Inwardly and Spiritually receiv'd by those that now suffer for Christ can be no Denyal of any Future or Eternal Advantage according to his Instance against me p. 7. seeing we know that to live is Christ and to dy is Gain unto us they that walk up to his Light in them here cannot miss of an Eternal Advantage hereafter Our light Affliction which is but for a moment worketh for is a far more exceeding weight of Glory see 2 Cor. 4 10 11. to the end of the Chapter Concerning Justification Imputation and Sanctification p. 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 wherein we differ he is fully answered in our Books viz. Divin Chr. Serious Apol. But where he saith viz. I know of none that hold Justification of Persons in their Vngodliness p. 55. Are there not those that hold Justification before Sanctification or in a sinful Estate by a meer Imputatation And those that thus argue for it by the Rule of Contraries As Christ was made to be Sin for us who knew no Sin i.e. by an inherent Guilt or Operations of Sin in him so we are made the Righteousness of God in him they adding as and so as he so we i.e. we are not actually made Righteous by any inherent Righteousness or Holiness of Christ wrought in us any more then Christ was made Sin but reckened Righteous only from his active and passive Obedience without us This Doctrine we have not only opposed but refuted Divin Christ Ser. Apol. The wicked Slander he calls upon us in this is his own T.H. we plead not for a Righteousness Imputed to overthrow a Righteousness Inherent or the Exercise of Christian Virtue p. 55. But do you not oppose a Righteousness inherent as to Justification or deny that those Christian Virtues within are reckoned or esteemed of God unto Justification T.H. 'T is you would separate and divide them not we p. 55. False we make no such Separation between Christ's Righteousness Inherent in us and Justification on the Imputation as ours we experiencing a Participation thereof Christ being made unto us both Righteousness Sanctification Redemption