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A53364 A discourse of the unlawfulness of praying to saints and angels being a full answer to a letter of Sabran the Jesuite : wherein the practice of the Church of Rome, in praying to saints and angels is plainly proved to be contrary to the doctrine of Christ and the presented authority by him produc'd, to be either forged or impertinent / by Titus Oates, a presbyter of the Church of England. Oates, Titus, 1649-1705. 1689 (1689) Wing O33; ESTC R38151 88,775 90

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Nyssen Another Proof you produce is St. Gregory Nazianzen who you bring in praying to St. Basil in these Words O Sacred and Divine Man look down upon us from Heaven and either by your Prayers mortifie that Sting of the Flesh which God hath given us for our Instruction or move us to bare it with a couragious Mind and direct our whole Life to that which is most fitting and when we part out of this Life receive us there in your Tabernacles Sir I have read over the Life of Nazianzen written by Gregorius Presbyter and he tells us that Nazianzen came to Caesaria a great while after St. Basu's Death and it is like he might Visit St. Basil's Grave but I do not remember any Prayer he made to St. Basil and since Gregorius Presbyter maketh no mention of it who wrote his Life and no mention being made of it by Socrates and Sozomen nor of St. Gregory Nyssen nor Gregory Nazianzen himself and other old Writers of approved Credit that also wrote St. Basil's Life mention that Prayer made to St. Basil by St. Gregory Nazianzen Till you give me some Instructions where to find this Prayer you must excuse me from believing any thing of the Matter I partly guess at your Authour who if well considered will give you no manner of Reputation The next Proof is a Prayer of St. Maximus to St. Agnes which I shall not give my self the trouble of answering till you tell me where you find that Prayer and then I shall be in a better condition to make a Reply to it I yet never met with any such Prayer in my Reading I would have you tell where in your Books you meet with it I will then tell my Thoughts of it till then I shall forbear any Reply The next Proof you produce is Father Hillary of Arles his Prayer to St. Honoratus To this Hillary I must confess I am wholly a Stranger but I have considered St. Hillary Bishop of Poicters and he knoweth nothing of the business and therefore I pray tell us who this St. Hillary of Arles was but the Saint Hillary that I know was Bishop of Poicters and was a married Bishop and did Learnedly write of the Holy Trinity I have both Fathers and Councils by me and I have read some things of this St. Hillary but he mentions nothing of praying to St. Honoratus I pray Sir tell me whether there were two St. Hillaries or no if not then let me tell you that I cannot find it till I have some directions from you and you must excuse me from giving any Credit to it for I doubt you depend upon an Author that will have little or no Credit for the Prayer as you call it smells so much of your Romish Forgery that I cannot well mention without great Indignation for St. Hillary the said Bishop of Poicters lived and flourished presently after St. Athanasius and then praying to Saints was not in fashion In the latter part of the fourth Century some of the Fathers were very full of their Rhetorical Apostrophies and did call upon their Saints but not pray their Speeches many times were directed to them that Men might follow their good Example having had an Account of their Lives but no Prayer at all intended to them Sir in your Epistle to the English Peer you make mention of one Amphilochius as a great Defender of the Lawfulness of Praying to Saints but in your Letter to Mr. Needham are pleased to take no notice of him therefore give me leave to tell you that it is true there was an Amphilochius that did maintain and defend that Doctrine but he is a new Amphilochius of your Churches setting up and not the true Amphilochius and your Prayers of St. Gregory Nazianzen to St. Basil and your Prayers of St. Gregory Nyssen to St. Theodore and your Prayers of Nectarius Patriarch of Constantinople to St. Theodore are all taken out of your Amphilochius the falseness of that Author shall be made appear by and by him you make a Writer of St. Basu's Life and what not We confess there was Amphilochius that was of Iconium but not Bishop of Iconium but Archbishop of Layconia he was a stout godly and worthy Bishop that did write against the Messalian Heretiques whom he couragiously suppressed and joyned with Flavianus Bishop of Antioch and drove them out of their Diocesses and in the Assistance of these Holy Prelates one Laetoius who was a Zealous Man came and burned up their Monasteries or as Theodoret termeth it their Den of Thieves Lib. 4. c. 11. But your Amphilochius who as your Divines pretend was Bishop of Iconium and if we may believe your Church-men was Consecrated by Angels from Heaven He pretends to write St. Basil's Life and was as yours say an Ancient Father and the Credit this Amphilochius hath did incourage you to make use of his Name and Authority in your Epistle to the English Peer for a Proof of the warrantableness of the Doctrine of praying to Saints as it is now practised in your Church I confess the Names of the Ancient Fathers of the Church are worthy of great Honour The Life of St. Basil was written and published by several worthy Fathers as by St. Gregorius Nyssenus and by his dear Friend St. Gregory Nazianzen by Gregorius Presbyter by Socrates and by Theodoret by Sozomen and Nicephorus and St. Chrysostom hath some Remarks of his Life in his Works notwithstanding of late years he that wrote Vitas Patrum and Jacobus de Voragine and Vincentius in speculo who seem to intitle this Amphilochius to be a great Writer of St. Bazil's life and therefore from him you have the prayer St. Gregory Nazianzen is supposed to have made to St. Bazil The reason of my suspition is because I cannot find this Prayer as I observed to you in any of the Works of those ancient Writers before-mentioned If you have I pray deal so ingeniously with us as to tell us But in the mean time to let you understand of what Credit your Amphilochus is I pray see how he hath dealt with St. Bazil in his pretended writing his Life and by that you may see what stress may be laid upon his Authority as to the controversie now in hand We will therefore compare your Amphilochius with Socrates Sozomen Gregory Nazianzen and Gregory Nyssen and other Ancient Fathers of undoubted Reputation in the world that did on purpose write the life of St. Bazil but not one syllable as ever I could see of that Prayer Socrates and Zozomen do say that Bazil in his Youth was under the Education of Libanius and was his Scholar but your Amphilochius saith that he was Companion and School-fellow to Libanius Socr. l. 4. c. 21. Sozomen l. 6. c. 17. Nazianzen and Gregorius Presbyter say that Basil living some time at Caesaria was well acquainted with Eusebius the Bishop of that place before he went into Pontus Your Amphilochius saith that at his return