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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A10973 Two dialogues, or conferences (about an old question lately renued, and by the schismaticall company, both by printed pamphlets, and otherwise to the disturbance of the Churches quiet, and of peaceable minds, very hotly pursued.) Concerning kneeling in the very act of receiuing the sacramental bread and wine, in the Supper of the Lord The former betweene two ministers of the word, the one refractarie, and depriued; the other not so. The latter betweene an humorous schismatike and a setled professor. Rogers, Thomas, d. 1616. 1608 (1608) STC 21241; ESTC S116109 75,976 132

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immediatly after our speeches and that not onely for himselfe and peraduenture for others too of the Brother-hood better to consider of but also for the satisfaction of him besides who both motioned the same at the first and desired it might be written for a further good And being committed to writing had so continued priuate in few mens hands for any thing that was in my thought God hee knoweth touching the publication of the same had not some persons neere and deere vnto your Lordshippe and for their vertues learning and iudgement of more then ordinary account in our Church and State vpon reasons both speciall and vrgent very earnestly moued me to make the same more common The other was occasioned by a certaine printed Libell of not aboue two sheetes of paper of which bulke or thereabouts myselfe haue seene diuers treatises published by the Sectaries An. 1605. and so made purposely they knowing and foreseeing that bookes of that size and of small price are both more readily bought vp on all hands especially of the common people whose fauour they hunt and hawke after more greedily read more easily vnderstood then large tedious and deere discourses published I wot not by whom and printed I know not where but doubtlesse beyond the Sea for the Printer wanted an English Corrector but wheresoeuer and by whomsoeuer printed and published which for my part I shall not be curious to inquire after as the publisher would not haue any man to be I haue thought it my bounden duety to answere and confute the same both because it is of the same verie subiect which the former is namely against kneeling at the communion as against flat Idolatrie as also for that the same is purposely diuulged both to harden such persons among vs whereof the number is but too greate in their folly as imbrace and hold that errour and to allure so many of our Church as possibly may be to be of that opinion And therefore both for the further and fuller manifestation of the truth by answering what the aduersaries hitherto haue deuised and dispersed as well in papers priuately as publiquely in print against the said Kneeling for the vpholding of Schisme and faction in that point and likewise for the preseruation of many in the peace and vnity of our Church and deliuery of others so far as in me lieth from this foule and lothsome opinion I haue thought it expedient yea very necessary the times considered to vndertake this labour Whereby whatsoeuer the author of the said Libel hath obiected is both answered and confuted and what he hath written verballie and syllabicallie the order of a dialogue onely considered and obserued yea and without omitting so much as a letter set downe This I speake of the booke it selfe For as touching the Preface it being partlie slanderous and reprochfull partly inticing all sorts of people vnto an open rupture schisme and forsaking of our Communions because of the said Kneeling I haue not medled therewithall being for my part of all other men both most vnwilling to spend good and pretious houres about such matter as cannot be stirred without offending the eares and stomackes of good men and most hartilie sorie that any men pretending sinceritie as all Schismatikes doe should either employ their pennes or thinke that euen their cause can be blessed of the highest which hath no better meanes then lies slanders diffamations and abandoning the Vnion and Communion of Gods people to vphold and support itselfe withall Now these my labours I verie humblie desire your Lordship to accept at the hands of an old Oxford and Christ-church man to whom it is no small ioy and comfort that he liueth to see that Vniuersitie equall at least with any other place of Learning in the word famouslie and admirablie to flourish and of that Vniuersitie to obserue men of Christ-church for their rare and singular endowments to be of such note and regard with the King and State as that the gouernment of foure chiefe and eminent places and Dioceses in this land is at this present committed to their trust and inspection as most worthy Patrons and pillars for the supporting both of the vncorrupt doctrine and holy discipline in this Church established And though I doubt not but I am knowne vnto all your Honours in some sort being sometime a poore member with you all at one and the same time of one and the same Colledge or Cathedrall Church yet doe I acknowledge this and what els I am able to performe due vnto your Lordship more then vnto any other man partly for that which it hath pleased you of late to write both vnto mee and touching me in your letters vnto that all worthie M. D. Tinley Arch-deacon of Elie my right worshipfull good friend which I haue both seene and read and with a thankefull minde recognise partly for that which it hath pleased your Lordship to say vtter vnto my selfe since my comming vnto London and especially because you haue vouchsafed to testifie your well liking of what I haue done both by a more then ordinarie approbation and desire that it might come abroad and also by commending of the same vnto the presse for the furtherance of the worke and better publishing it vnto the world Acknowledging therefore these your manifold vndeserued fauours with a very thankefull heart and promising my best to deserue them I earst and againe very humbly desire your good Lordship to accept these treatises with the former and same affections at my poore hands in respect of my owne handling simple and slender bee they I confesse but for their subiect and these times of Schisme wherein many writers and spreaders of new and false doctrines may be seene but few confuters of them many disturbers of our Church and vnderminers of the peace and prosperitie thereof by factious and Schismaticall discourses but few counterminers or that stand in the breach to keepe these aduersaries out of the Citie of God and from the sheep-fold of Christ very necessarie and worthie your Lordships patronage and protection and so very humbly taketh his leaue the fourth of May Anno. 1608. Your Lordships alwaies to command THOMAS ROGERS THE FIRST DIALOGVE or conference for the finding out of the truth touching kneeling in the act of receiuing the Supper of the Lord. THE SPEAKERS Seffray Rogers S. WE ought herein to imitate Christ. R. That is not simplie and absolutely true For in the administration of the Lords Supper we are to imitate Christ but onely in things necessarie not accessorie and substantiall not circumstantiall and accidentall Christ is to be followed of vs not as he was God but as he was man and as man in his Morall euer not alwayes in his Ministeriall actions Our Sauiour willeth vs in the celebration of this Sacrament and the deliuerie of bread and wine to renue the memorie of his death and passion till he returne againe but not to vse his