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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
friend_n	worship_n	worship_v	yield_v	10	3	8.3606	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A15082	A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of Div· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit*	White, Francis, 1564?-1638.; Laud, William, 1573-1645.; Baylie, Richard, b. 1585 or 6, attributed name.; Cockson, Thomas, engraver.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641.	1624 (1624)	STC 25382; ESTC S122241	841,497	706

examples of this kinde yea so much as one example then you might iustly say Neither haue Protestants reason c. But you are and will be as mute as a fish in producing any one example to this purpose From the example of the Angell refusing to be worshipped Apoc. 19.10 22.8 9. we argue in this manner That which the Angel refused to admit when hee was present and came as an Ambassadour of Christ is not to be giuen to blessed Saints and Angels when they are absent But the Angel refused a lesser degree of adoration when hee was present and came as an Ambassadour of Christ than Papists yeeld to Angels and to blessed Saints being absent Ergo c. The Iesuit imagineth but he prooueth nothing either that Saint Iohn would haue exhibited diuine Adoration to the Angell and for this reason his worship was refused or that being modest and also feruent about his present imployment he esteemed such worship vnmeet to wit at that present rebus sic stantibus and in regard of the extraordinarie dignitie of Saint Iohn who was so great and glorious a friend of God The first solution is reiected by learned Papists themselues Ribera Alchasar Salmeron Viegas Mendoza c. and it is apparant by the Text of the Reuelation that St. Iohn knew it was an Angel which spake to him Apoc. 1.1 and Christ had many times reuealed so much to him The second Answere The Angel in modestie c. hath nothing at all in the Text to warrant it but is voluntarily faigned by the Iesuite First Let him giue vs any the like example of such modestie elsewhere in holy Scripture vsed by any Angel Secondly His comparison from a Preacher refusing to bee praised c. is altogether vnlike for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 adoration are actions of a diuers kinde the one may be refufed in modestie by a Preacher a wayfaring man for feare of vaine-glorie But religious adoration is an vndue seruice for any creature and must be refused in right Neither doth any man when he praiseth a Preacher prostrate himselfe religiously Also if religious Adoration had beene due to the Angel why should he in modestie refuse it because he was an immediate Ambassadour of Iesus Christ and the admitting thereof would haue beene a leading case for posteritie to teach them their dutie to Angels if such dutie had belonged to them The third answere The Angel refused adoration from St. Iohn because of the dignitie of this great Apostle is confuted by the Text Apoc. 22.9 For the Angel yeelding a reason of his refusall assignes a cause which argueth that such adoration was not due to him from any other seruant of Iesus Christ saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. See thou doe it not for I am thy fellow seruant and of thy brethren the Prophets and of them which keepe the sayings of this Booke worship God Hence it is manifest that if the Angel refused religious worship because God alone is to bee worshipped in this manner and because he was the fellow seruant of all iust persons then he refused not this worship onely because of the speciall dignitie of St. Iohn but he would haue refused the like worship from any other Christian as well as he did from him Saint Ambrose vpon the Reuelation Chap. 19. saith The Redemption of Christs Blood brought this to the faithfull that they should be made the sonnes of God and companions of Angels Therefore the Angel feared to be worshipped of a man who worshipped one aboue him which was God and man To the like purpose also speaketh Ansbertus The Spirit of God no doubt foresaw the errours which would spring vp in future times and therefore hee left vpon Record this remarkeable example in the Reuelation to manifest his will and to be an Antidotarie against the superstitious worship of Saints and Angels And let men cauill and descant vpon this Scripture as they please It is euident from the same that the Angel would admit no worship of himselfe and hee draweth man to the immediate worshipping of Christ Hee doth not distinguish saying Worship me with religious worship as Gods friend or worship me not as the prime fountaine and principall doner or with Latria but simply and without all distinction he protesteth against this religious and sacred reuerence saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yeeld thy worship to God As for me 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I am thy fellow seruant and a fellow seruant c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 See thou do it not let no other do it Lastly If our Aduersaries will haue vs regard their distinctions let them not like spiders spinne them out of their owne braines but let them yeeld vs any Text or example in the new Testament wherein holy Angels or blessed Saints or the blessed Virgin liuing or defunct did euer require or receiue or our Sauiour or any of his Apostles in their behalfe did euer appoint such religious worship to bee yeelded vnto them as Papists require IESVIT § 4. Praying vnto Saints not iniurious vnto Gods mercie but rather a commendation thereof THe fourth cause why Protestants out of their zeale vnto God refuse to inuocate Saints is the high conceit of Gods mercie for seeing he calleth all men immediately to himselfe Come vnto me all you that labour and I will refresh you We wrong his infinite goodnesse in not approaching vnto him by Prayer without the intercession of Saints This their zeale is not ioyned with science of the course of Gods mercifull prouidence whose Diuine wisedome prescribeth certaine bounds and as it were lawes to the infinitie of his mercies which orders and prescripts whosoeuer doth neglect and yet hopes to obtaine fauours hee doth not truely confide but erroniously presume God is infinitly mercifull and saith Come to me all that labour yet the man that should seeke to him for the remission of sinnes and would not submit himselfe to the Sacrament of water should hope in vaine and to no purpose challenge him of his promise Come to me all wherefore it imports vs verie much to know and to vse those meanes of approching vnto God that he hath appointed Now that the intercession of Saints is one meanes without which God will not bestow many graces and fauours as well spirituall as temporall Christian Tradition doth deliuer vnto vs which Tradition is suitable with the bountifull and noble disposition of God which is not onely to honour and glorifie those that haue beene zealous of his honour to the effusion of their bloud but also to make the world know and vnderstand that he doth honor them for this knowledge is both for his glorie and also for the good of men that seeing how highly God honoureth his constant friends they be prouoked to indeauour by pure life to gaine his fauours ANSWER First our doctrine and zeale are grounded vpon diuine reuelation for we are

still sollicitous though secure of their owne as S. Cyprian writes ANSVVER The blessed Saints in Heauen can desire that only which is according to the will of God Math. 6. 10. But that it pleaseth God they shall desire to know and vnderstand all the particular actions and occurrents of people on earth or that they shall desire to know the honour which is done to them in the inferiour world must be beleeued as a matter of Faith when the Papals prooue it by diuine Reuelation And although according to S. Cyprian blessed Saints are sollicitous of the Saluation of the Chucrh militant yet it followeth not Ergo they heare the petitions of the liuing for a father dwelling in London which hath his sonne at Constantinople is sollicitous of his sonnes safetie and yet he vnderstandeth not all the particulars about him IESVIT Wherefore our Doctrine that Saints see our prayers being deliuered so constantly by the antient Fathers so conformable to the principles of Christian beleefe about the blessednesse of Saints so consonant vnto expresse passages of Scripture we may easily expect that vnto Protestants it would not be displeasing did they looke on it with vnpartiall eyes specially they hauing no Text of Scripture that may make so much shew of direct opposition against it ANSWER Your insinuations are coniecturall and at the best seemingly plausible but your disputation is weake wherefore we admire your confidence in a case so groundlesse and intreat you either to argue more soundly or else to be lesse vaineglorious in your conclusions IESVIT The place continually obiected out of the Prophet Esay Abraham knew vs not Israell was ignorant of vs thou O Lord art our Father thou our Redeemer hath this sence that Abraham and Iacob when they did liue vpon earth and carnally beget children did not know particularly their posterities and so could not beare them such particular affection whereas God can and doth distinctly see and know their necessities and prouides against them deliuering his children out of them And therefore he is the onely Father the onely Redeemer Abraham and Iacob not deseruing the name of Father in comparison with God What makes this against the Saints hearing our prayers ANSVVER We receiued our exposition of this place of Esay cap. 63.16 out of S. Augustine and I marueile why the Iesuit reiecteth the same and chuseth a worse because his owne party confesseth that Abraham and the Patriarkes liuing in the darke lake of Limbus did not heare the prayers of their posteritie nor behold and vnderstand the affaires of their children liuing vpon earth IESVIT §. 3. The worship of Spirit and Truth with outward prostration of the bodie due vnto Saints THe third cause of their dislike is That we giue the honor of the Creator vnto the creature honoring Saints with religious worship with worship of Spirit and Truth euen to the prostrating of our bodies before them whereby we giue them honor due to God only and bring in many Gods as the Heathens do To this Obiection made long ago by Faustus the Manichee S. Austine answereth in these words The Christian people doth celebrate with religious solemnitie the memories of Martyrs to the end to stirre vp themselues to their imitation and that they may be assisted with their prayers and associated vnto their merits c. but with the worship tearmed in Greeke Latria and which the Latine language cannot expresse in one word being a certaine subiection and seruitude due properly to the Deitie only wee do not honour any but onely God nor thinke that this honour ought to be giuen but only to him These words of S. Augustine shew the worship of Saints to be on the one side more than ciuile and on the other side lesse than diuine more than ciuile as proceeding out of acknowledgement of the excellencie Saints haue superior vnto all naturall by which they be partakers of diuine perfection in that high degree as no substance can by natureparticipate therof and therfore S. Austine with good reason tearmes it religious Lesse than diuine as proceeding from persuasion of excellency though superhumane yet infinitely inferiour vnto the increate and immence excellencie of God yea depending essentially thereof So that honor is giuen them dependently of God as being superexcellent participants of his perfection and his singular friends ANSVVER Our Argument is All religious worship is due to God onely Papists yeeld to Saints some religious worship Ergo Papists yeeld to Saints some worship due to God onely The Iesuit pretendeth to answere by distinction out of St. Augustine saying That religious worship is either simply Diuine and founded vpon infinite and increate excellencie called Latria or else superhumane founded vpon Grace and Glorie which is an excellencie finite and created Papists yeeld the latter kinde of religious worship to blessed Saints and Angels but not the former To this Answere Protestants replie saying That there are no other kindes of worship than there be Tables of the Morall Law But there are onely two Tables of the Morall Law the former whereof teacheth Diuine Worship and the second humane ciuile or of speciall obseruance And if there be a mixt worship partly Diuine and partly humane so much thereof as is Diuine is proper to God and may not be imparted to any Creature Esay 42.8 But against this they obiect That to euery kinde and degree of excellencie there is a worship due proportionall to that excellencie But blessed Saints and Angels haue a speciall kinde and degree of excellencie superiour to theirs which liue vpon earth Therefore a speciall honour proportioned to their excellencie and superiour to humane is due vnto them It is answered That granting in blessed Saints and Angels an excellencie of Grace and Glorie and Honour due in respect of the same this prooueth not that they are to bee adored with religious worship for then holy persons vpon earth may bee worshipped with religious worship But the vertue of Religion according to the Tenet of the Schoole respecteth immedately increated excellencie and Latria and Religion are all one and if Saints and Angels may be worshipped with religious worship they may bee serued with the worship of Latria And if they answer that worship of Saints is a materiall action of religion this answer is confuted by the schoolemen themselues who also affirme that the worship of Saints c. is an act of Dulia and not of Religion or Latria The place obiected out of S. Augustin c. Faust. Manich. li. 20. c. 2 1 is made to speake that by the Aduersarie which the holy father intendeth not for he tearmeth not the honour exhibited by the true Church to the persons of Martyrs religious but he saith onely Populus Christianus memorias martyrum religiosa solemnitate concelebrat Christian people celebrate the memorials of Martyrs with religious solemnitie And then expounding himselfe in the progresse of the chapter

heauier if wee mis-lead on eytherside than theirs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs. But I see I must looke to my selfe for you are secure For F. Dr White said I hath secured me that none of our Errors be damnable so long as wee hold them not against our Conscience And I hold none against my Conscience B. It seemes then you haue two Securities Dr Whites Assertion and your Conscience What Assurance Dr White 〈◊〉 you I cannot tell of my selfe nor as things stand may I rest vpon your Relation It may be you vse him no better than you doe the Bishop And sure it is so For I haue since spoken with Dr White and hee auowes this and no other Answere Hee was asked in the conferense betweene you Whether Popish Errors were Fundamentall To 〈◊〉 hee gaue 〈◊〉 by distinction of the persons which held and professed the Errors namely That the Errors were Fundamentall reductiue by a Reducement if they which embraced them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 adhere to them hauing sufficient 〈◊〉 to be better enformed nay further that they were materially and in the verie kind and nature of them Leauen Drosse Hay and Stubble Yet hee thought withall that such as were mis-led by Education or long Custome or over-valuing the 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 Church and did in 〈◊〉 of heart embrace them might by their generall 〈◊〉 and Faith in the Merit of Christ attended with Charitie 〈◊〉 other Vertues find mercie at Gods hands But that hee should say Signanter and expressely That none eyther of yours or your fellowes 〈◊〉 were damnable so long as you hold them not against Conscience that hee vtterly disauowes You deliuered nothing to 〈◊〉 such a Confession from him And for your selfe hee could obserue but small loue of Truth few signes of Grace in you as hee tells mee Yet hee will not presume to iudge you or your Saluation it is the Word of Christ that must iudge you as the latter Day For your Conscience you are the happier in your Error that you hold nothing against it especially if you speake not against it while you say so But this no man can know but your Conscience For no man knowes the thoughts of a man but the spirit of a man that is within him to which I leaue you But yet you leaue not For you tell me F. The doubting partie asked Whether shee might be saued in the Protestants Faith Vpon 〈◊〉 Soule said the B. you may Vpon my Soule said I there is but one sauing Faith and that is the Romane B. So it seemes the B. was confident for the Faith professed in the Church of England else hee would not haue taken the Saluation of another vpon his Soule And sure hee had reason of his Confidence For to beleeue the Scripture and the Creeds to beleeue these in the sense of the antient Primitiue Church to receiue the foure great Generall Councels so much magnified by Antiquitie to beleeue all Points of Doctrine generally receiued as Fundamentall in the Church of Christ is a Faith in which to liue and die cannot but giue Saluation And therefore the B. went vpon a sure ground in the aduenture of his Soule vpon that Faith Besides in all the Points of Doctrine that are controuerted betweene vs. I would faine see anie one Point maintained by the Church of England that can bee prooued to depart from the Foundation You haue manie dangerous Errors about it in that which you call the Romane Faith But there I leaue you to looke to your owne Soule and theirs whom you seduce Yet this is true too That there is but one sauing Faith But then euerie thing which you call De Fide Of the Faith because some Councell or other hath defined it is not such a breach from that one sauing Faith as that hee which expressely beleeues it not nay as that hee which beleeues the contrarie is excluded from Saluation And Bellarmine is forced to graunt this There are manie things de Fide which are not absolutely necessarie to Saluation Therefore there is a Latitude in Faith especially in reference to Saluation To set a Bound to this and strictly to define it Iust thus farre you must beleeue in euerie particular or incurre Damnation is no worke for my Penne. These two things I am sure of One That your peremptorie establishing of so manie things that are remote Deductions from the Foundation hath with other Errors lost the Peace and Vnitie of the Church for which you will one day answere And the other That you are gone further from the Foundation of this one sauing Faith than can euer bee prooued wee haue done But to conclude you tell vs F. Vpon this and the precedent Conferences the Ladie rested in iudgement fully satisfied as shee told a confident friend of the Truth of the Romane Churches Faith Yet vpon frailetie and feare to offend the King shee yeelded to goe to Church For which shee was after verie sorrie as some of her friends can testifie B. This is all personall And how that Honourable Ladie is settled in Conscience how in Iudgement I know not This I thinke is made cleare enough That that which you said in this and the precedent Conferences could settle neyther vnlesse in some that were settled or setting before As little doe I know what shee told anie Friend of the Romane Cause No more whether it were frailetie or feare that made her yeeld to goe to Church nor how sorrie shee was for it nor who can testifie that sorrow This I am sure of If shee repent and God forgiue her other sinnes shee will farre more easily bee able to answere for her comming to Church than shee will for the leauing of the Church of England and following the Superstitions and Errors which the Romane Church hath added in point of Faith and worship of God I pray God giue her Mercie and all of you a Light of his Truth and a Loue to it first that you may no longer be made Instruments of the Popes boundlesse Ambition and this most vnchristian braine-sicke Deuice That in all Controuersies of the Faith hee is infallible and that by way of Inspiration and Prophesie in the Conclusion which hee giues To due consideration of this and Gods Mercie in Christ I leaue you FINIS Optat. lib. 3. c. Parmen Aug. c. Cresc lib. 3. ca. 51. Isid. d. sum bon lib. 3. ca. 53. Aug. Epist. 48. ad Vincent Idem Ep. 52. ad Macedon Idem Ep. 61. ad Dulcit Euseb. Hist. Eccles li. 10. ca. 9. Et d. vit Const. li. i. ca. 37. Ministrorum Dei coegit Concilium lib. 2. c. 43. lib. 3. ca. 6 10 12 16 17 18 23. Interdum 〈◊〉 quae ad Ecclesiarum Dei commodū spectabant prescribendo ib. ca. 63. lib. 4. c. 14. c. 18. Festos dies instituit ca. 22 23 27. Episcoporū Decreta cōfirmauit Theoderit Hist. Eccles li. 1. cap. 7. August d. Ciu. Dei li. 5. c. 25. Tertul. ad