haue the consent of many worthy churches and godly learned both of this and 13 Speake not this for shame for before Caluins time your fancies were neuer heard of other ages I would be ashamed for that singular mercy God had shewed mee by her Maiesties most gratious gouernment to come 14 Yet I haue beene in many places in her Maiesties seruice where I could not see you behind M. Sutcliffe in any duty that my poore hand is able to reach vnto 15 What is this to Fenners cause And that hee 16 If I dare you it is because I knowe you cannot dareth me not once but sundry times to answere touching these matters of discipline I thinke it not so 17 Why did you then first begin this braule fit for mee to vndertake it there being so many better able thereunto then I especially in this declining and forgetfull age of mine and yet if my answere might haue either that 18 At Geneua you may haue both allowance of print or passage that his hath and none other were found I my selfe in this weakenesse I am in would not be behinde with answere to any thing that he hath bene able to alledge in this behalfe 19 A ridiculous surmise if there be any thing in his writings the answere where of is not already set downe by such as haue written in that cause and that my silence in the cause of discipline is not altogether of the 20 I do thinke M. Cartwright able to do and write well but not in this cause inabilitie or feare M. D. Sutcliffe would so willingly fasten or rather force vpon mee let this be for an 21 An argument most weake for it is more easie to refute the Rhemâ—sts false annotations then to establish newe found conceits argument that where I was set 22 That should be done by the learned fathers of the church on worke by the right honourable Sir Francis Walsingham for the answere of the annotations of the Iesuites vpon the New testament had trauailed therein to a rude and first draught of a great part thereof vnderstanding from some in authority that I might not deale with it I did not onely not set any thing out my selfe but also 23 Good for you and for the cause earnestly laboured by letters and frends here and in Scotland both the hinderance of the printing some parts thereof which being brought to Sir Francis afterward much against my will came into the hands of diuers to whom I would 24 Such is the pride of these men they will not suffer their doings to be corrected neuer haue let them come In the margine oueragainst these words hinderance of the printing is this note placed And 25 This note serueth to vnderproppe the former weake argument but to no good effect for the vnsufficiency of this might deter him from attempting the other labour if he stayed the publishing of that whereunto he was once allowed by authority it is not in all likelyhood to be thought that he would hastily publish any thing of himselfe howsoeuer he might be persuaded of the trueth of it Matth. Sutcliffe In this answer there are two principall questions that should haue bene resolued by M. Cartwright if he meant to conclude ought against me the first is whether he did highly commend M. Fenners booke or no wherein this strange position mentioned in the title of his answere is conteined the second whether granting so much as I charged him withall he was herein slandered as in euery of his seuerall accusations he pretendeth of these two questions M. Cartwright resolueth nether with what face then can hee say that he is slandered not being able to deny any thing which I say nor to iustifie his wrong imputation of slaunder did hee thinke that I should neuer returne to looke into these matters if he did what hope hath he to make them good Beside this wrong where I say that Fenner giueth authoritie to inferior persons as indeed he doth he cunningly foisteth in superior persons as if either he meant to 1 If he say that a prince may be ouerruled by inferiors he denieth the princes souereignty if in such common wealths where the magistrates haue indeed superiors he deny their authority he speaketh as a man ignorant of antiquitie and state denie the princes supremacie or their authoritie if any such may be that haue authoritie ouer the prince or king as the Romanes had ouer kings that were their vassals and tributaries of which wee talke not nor make any question such goodly discourses maketh M. Cartwright all muffled about the eyes with the maske of innocency so that he could see nothing vnlesse it were to misalledge my words and to answere nothing to purpose yet least his clients and followers might thinke he had sayd great matters let vs examine euen this nothing He sayth that M. Fenner giueth no such authority as is sayd but where the lawes of the land doe establish such an authoritie as the Ephori in Lacedaemonia had A matter as I shewed that made not to purpose and which is also very false for M. Fenner as M. Cartwright should not be ignorant speaketh of lawes drawn out of the word of God to which all princes ought to submit their scepters further he speaketh generally he therefore that taketh it otherwise doth both mistake and misconstrue Driuen from this ground hee flieth to the second and sayth that hee is not of M. Fenners iudgement which sitteth him not well to say vnlesse he will contradict himselfe in his epistle for the matters conteined in M. Fenners booke hee calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 leges iuracoelestis Canaan Now I trow he wil not deny Gods lawes or as he calleth them the lawes of heauenly Canaan beside this he reuiewed the book and corrected it as appeareth by these words Cupiebam saith 2 The words of M. Cartwrights epistle before M. Fenners booke M. Cartwright libelluÌ„ hunc quem sanè praeclarum abs te accepi nec indignum vt ei legendo vadimonium quod dicitur deseratur pro voto postulato tuo meliorem cultiorem ad te remittere ad quam rem quid attulerim tu apud te statues hauing then corrected what he thought amisse will not M. Cartwright defend the rest especially hauing made all so neat and fine thirdly as those that 3 l. lex cornelia ff de iniuriis §. si quis librum publish and commend or write or make books conteining slandrous matter are to answere for whatsoeuer is therein conteined so they that publish and commend books conteining hereticall and trecherous and leud opinions are to answere for them much rather in what case then is M. Cartwr that by his excessiue commendations hath giuen vent to this booke which no wise man I thinke will valew is not he periured that denieth that doctrine on his oth which is conteined in the
the braule if you finde your selfe therewith agreeued and not mee that did nothing but defend my selfe and answere What should I speake of the harshnesse and roughnesse of your stile your booke it selfe albeit I say nothing will herein say sufficient against so megre and wretched a discourse what neede I say any thing Yet partly least you should enter into presumption as if you had triumphed ouer me and sufficiently iustified your selfe and partly also to represse that hautines of spirit that possesseth you and maketh you so impatient of due reproofe and partly to cure your followers of that mad humor that maketh them suppose you to be a man without blame and error I haue vndertaken to examine to looke into this treatise of yours more particulerly although otherwise most vnworthy to be refuted or looked vpon and the rather for that your friend that hath made the preface before your booke doeth make such great brags of this defence and standeth so confidently vpon your innocencie and would haue all my writings esteemed and iudged according to this rule I haue also added such questions as you omitted praying your answer for my satisfaction if you mislike this course blame your selfe that drew me forth to iustifie my doings and would not giue mee any rest by your importunitie but if you doe still like it and will further proceede to charge mee with slandering you then for your owne credite if not at my request set downe my wordes truely and wholy and forbeare to forge and deuise matters calumniously I haue shewed you both in this booke and in my answere to M. Throkmorton a precedent deale not worse with mee then I haue done with you but percase all this request is needlesse for I trust his example who now is silent as it seemeth for ought he dare auowe wil teach you not to stirre coles well couered too rashly nor to prate of needlesse matters foolishly nor to runne wilfully into danger when no man driueth you This my answere albeit you looke not for it I dedicate to your owne selfe and not without iust cause challenges they say require answer and 1 Iueunda rerum verissitudo one good turne requireth another all men that haue good minds yeld 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like for like and pay home 3 Quod a se allatum est id sibi relatum puter Terent. in prol phorm as much as they haue receiued yea gratefull mindes 4 Vberiore mensura quam acceperis Cicer. ex Hesiod pay all with ouerflowing measure I doe not looke for any thankes at your hands I know it is an vngratefull world yet if you will patronize this booke and vouchsafe to stay the vnbridled tongues of your disciples that in their Bacchanall banquettes and disciplinarian feastes degorge their malice and speake their pleasures of whom they list I wil accept it at your hands as a fauour and put it into the reckening of your good doings More I haue to say vnto you but the rest you shall receiue in my answere to your challenge praying you to thinke nothing ouermuch nor lightly to condemne any thing before you haue talked with your friend Master Throkmorton to whom I doubt not but you will discommend me and therefore I desire not to be commended to him and so committing and commending you both to your sober thoughts I bid you a dieu MATTHEVV SVTCLIFFE ¶ To the Reader IT may be gentle Reader that either thou mayest thinke mee contentious that haue entred into this quarrell with M. Cartwright being a matter very friuolous no way to any good purpose or els very idle and at great laisure that haue nothing els to busie my selfe withall vnlesse I doe dispute and talke of Hackets Penries matters and M. Cartwrights landes and liuings and also of his domesticall and inward affaires and his priuate conceits and opinions But yet if thou wilt be pleased to consider either the great credite and fame which M. Cartwright hath amōg his followers that admire all his vanities or els the importunitie of him that made the preface to his booke that would haue all my writings measured by this false and deceiuable line of M. Cartwrights apologeticall challenge by the which hee supposeth him to bee cleared and mee to be quite disgraced and therefore seeketh to discredite all that I haue written in the common cause by the supposed vntruethes and slanders vttered against him of which he taketh me as conuicted I trust thou wilt pardon mee although I doe examine euen these fond toyes and fancies not worth a straw and grant that it is to some good purpose if I doe cleare my selfe of those fonde and ridiculous imputations which hee would so willingly and yet doeth so vnhandsomely fasten vpon me I was not ignorant that wise men doe well perceiue this to bee an vncertaine and deceitfull rule considering that such as write best are not voyde of errours and very learned men doe often slip yet such is the iustice and clearenesse of my cause in this controuersie betwixt M. Cartwright and me that I would not feare for once to allowe this rule and to make the most simple iudge of my dealings herein the which helpe seeing my cause doth afford me I thought it not conuenient to leaue to such clamorous aduersaries any pretense of aduantage I am therefore to pray thee not to accompt mee for this cause either contentious and quarrelsome or els vnwilling to accept of conditions of peace but rather to pitie mee whom such contentious fellowes with their vaine iangling and clamarous complayning will not suffer to rest I did neuer challenge any as yet but still wrote against those that had first entred into voluntary quarrels against this Church and state such was my discourse against Bellarmine and the Papists such also were those two bookes which I wrote against the whole fraternitie of the disciplinarians and their extrauagant fancies neither had I to doe either with the authour of the petition or with M. Iob Throk before they did challenge me seeing then this my answere to M. Cartwright is of the same nature why should the same bee more blamed then my other doings As for my leisure I assure thee it was neuer lesse for yet there are not many dayes passed since the Fleete returned wherein I was with others in her Maiesties seruice in the iourney of Guadix and to set my things in order and to refresh my selfe of my former trauailes some time is required as for idlenesse I doe detest it and M. Cartwright and his friendes I thinke will thereof discharge me yet if his peremptory dealing and his proloquutors insolencie would haue suffered mee to rest I could nowe haue bene content to put ouer M. Cartwrights briefe vntill the next returne but being prouoked by both either to yeelde my selfe to haue done notorious wrong or els to make answere although my other busines was great and my ease none
is therfore needlesse comfort thy selfe if thou marke howe and in what sort this reuiling 2 Viz. Of Martinists and deformistes generation is curbed as it were snaffled and restreined by the powerfull and righteous hand of God that in the middest of their forwardnes and boldenesse to blunder out what they list without blushing they can hardly for their liues 3 What a blundring stirre haue we here blunder out a trueth as if the Lord in his secret iudgment had purposely and apparantly 4 O not orious blasphemie of a wicked tongue blasted their penne with a lying and distempered spirit ¶ The Answere We do in deed much comfort our selues considering the speciall prouidence of God and diligent care of the magistrate that hath curbed and snaffled the mouthes of the Martinistes which like wilde asses lift vp their heeles and put foorth their rayling tongues against the fathers of this Church and the chiefe gouernours of the Ecclesiastical state Neither are we to feare that such odious declaymers as this that hath now taken to himselfe a litle more libertie then ordinary shall still be suffered to blunder out their tempestuous and railing speaches As for those that haue written in defence of the lawes of England and ancient rites of the Church they are not to take it to heart albeit by this lewd fellow they be railed at as a reuiling generation that blunder out vntrueth without shame It is the fashion of heretickes schismatickes and wicked companions to raile at honest men so did Celsus and Porphyrius raile against the Christians the Arrians against Athanasius the schismaticall Donatists against S. Augustine the Anabaptists against true beleeuers What then although this railing Prefator do degorge his malice against vs why hath he not also blasphemed the holy Spirit of God doth he not say that God doth blast mens pennes with alying spirit attributing the wicked action to God which is the fountaine of trueth and all goodnesse reade the words and examine them and you shall finde it to be as I say He saith not that God doth send out wicked spirits or suffer wicked spirits of lying to blast mens pennes but that God blasteth mens pennes with a spirit of lying as if Gods breathing or Spirit did infect mens pennes with lying Looke on it M. Cartwright and be ashamed to haue such blasphemies in your booke at the least reproue him for it as for Iob Throk whose stile this seemeth to be he is ashamed of nothing Is it not sufficient for you to abuse men but you must also blaspheme God And you my masters of the rayling sect of Martinistes before you accuse others of reuiling and blundring out vntruthes looke on your selues and your felowes I thinke M. Cartwright will not deny but in his bookes he hath written many vntruethes and both he and others are still blundring out their consistoriall conceits in which there is neither trueth nor reason But this man had onely care to speake euill that which should be his special care he doth not regard for he proueth nothing I trust M. Cartwright who is now canonized by this Prefator and become S. Innocent or rather innocencie it selfe will reproue him for it and therefore I forbeare further to distemper his discrasied braine ¶ The preface All which if thou finde verified 1 But if this bee gainesaid and iust exception taken against it all this is but a foolish fancie without all gainsay and exception in the writings of M. D. Sutcliffe others of that 2 I wonder what haire these men be of that haue not one haire of an honest man haire and withall if thou see these men that doe thus 3 Is any more heady or desperat then your selues headily and desperatly lash on in disgrace of others to bee themselues in their seuerall accusations so palpably taken tardie that the very walles and 4 This stonie rhetoricke is able to mooue any stony heart stones of the streete may conuince them of vntruth if I say thou finde this to be true and for 5 If this bee your proofe I desire no better proofe of your foolery proofe thereof I referre thee to this short and modest defence haue patience in thy selfe and giue the glory to God who doth thus thou seest in his wisdome make a way and passage for the clearing of the innocent euen through the mouth and 6 Euill come to him that maliciously thinketh malice of the accuser himselfe ¶ The answere If any man be able iustly to prooue that to be verified in any writings which this man affirmeth and no way is able to auerre then let me receiue shame and this man glory Nay if I do not iustifie as much as I haue affirmed let mee haue punishment which will wonderfully content this malicious generation nay I will not take vantage of his wordes which giue colour to any contradiction or gainsaying But if I doe not iustifie such matters as I haue affirmed let law passe But if I do not onely gainsay but iustly gainsay M. Cartwr defence which is the whole proofe of all this proud bragge then let me haue this bragging fellow esteemed a vaine man without all iudgement or modestie Of what haire he is I will not dispute they say and I see he hath not one haire of an honest man He saith also that other my felowes writings shal be apparantly conuicted of vntrueth without all gainsay and for proofe referreth vs to this braue defence of M. Cartwright But his assertion is very impudent and his proofe ridiculous for how doth M. Cartwright conuince those against whom he saith nothing was not the Prefator ashamed to shuffle things thus together sure neither my friends nor I am afraid of any thing M. Cartwright either hath said or can say against vs. Neither do I thinke that he shall speed better then his friend Iob Throkmorton did the last yeere he bragged much of his defence against my slanders as he called them but the matters are prooued so true that albeit the man hath great lust to bite and grinneth and grumbleth in corners like a rough haired water spaniel yet I do not once as yet heare him openly barke And I hope likewise in this treatise so to refute this briefe that M. Cartwright will be aduised ere he send me foorth his reply by which I doubt not but to make cleare that I haue not disgraced any wrongfully nor bene so vnaduised as this man giueth forth very vnaduisedly and impudently There shall it appeare also whether I haue bene taken so tardy that the stones and walles may conuince me of vntrueth as he affirmeth very ridiculously for what more blockish deuise then to make stones and walles disputers Are these fellowes so powerfull that they can make walles to speake and so dul that they cannot conuince me when stones and walles can do it The walles he saith shal conuince them ô braue floure of thetoricall amplification
booke which he alloweth as for M. Fenner let him rest in peace he was towardly but in setting foorth this booke too forward yea and percase M. Cartwrights iudgement therein did not a litle abuse him Thirdly hee goeth on and would haue it considered with what minde I doe so often 4 Belike this point galled him and therefore he would not haue it touched or rubbed rubbe ouer this one point seeing in the Starre-chamber he disauowed this opinion fathered vpon M. Fenner as I doe confesse as if it were sufficient to deny it when a man hath done leudly or els if a man might not note his notorious contradictions that is still opposing himselfe against the state let him therefore rather consider how vnchristianly he hath dealt with many good men and recant the wrong hee hath done in disgracing of this church of England and the state and call backe his leud epistle and that leud booke that hath and doeth still giue occasion of iust offence let him also be sory for his oth so rashly taken and ashamed of his notorious contradiction in this matter finally let him deny that the eldership hath authoritie to correct excommunicate princes and giue vnto them their due and right and he shall neither be further rubbed nor heare more of me Fourthly to presse mee downe with the authoritie of the Starre chamber he goeth on and yet leaueth it to be considered with what christian modestie I may so often and that in print mooue question of things to his discredite which her maiesties most honorable counsell 1 Let him shew this was pleased should be no further proceeded in and that am not content with his imprisonment which their honours are 2 A manifest vntrueth satisfied with as if christians either vsed not or might not talke of matters examined and ended in courts of publike iustice especially so long as they did not controll them or mislike them nay therefore are such matters heard publikely that men may haue notice of them and talke of them and sometimes the sentences and proceedings of iudges are published abroad that men may talke of them that by the punishment of law breakers and disloiall persons others may bee warned and restrained from running into such like disorders Assuredly if the strange opinions and vndutiful behauiour of these men as they are well knowen to the iudges so had bene well knowen to the people men would neuer haue either admired them or folowed them or praised that discipline which they seeke for Neither do I thinke that there is any order in the Starre chamber to the contrary Why doeth not M. Cartwright note it if he know any such matter it was their honors pleasure to shew him great fauour and to accept of a certaine submission he made as I haue heard but that he should be quite discharged I cannot beleeue for M. Cartwright may remember that he standeth 3 His bond is in the court of the commission for causes ecclesiasticall bound to appeare at any time within 20. dayes warning giuen to him which argueth that albeit he be dismissed vpon hope of amendment yet he is not discharged dismissed he is of great fauour through her maiesties exceeding clemencie but if he runne on his olde courses and accuse those of wrong that did him exceeding fauour he may percase vnderstand what formerly he hath deserued and if he be not delt with all iudicially by lawe yet may it please him to giue vs leaue to talke of his misdemeanors extraiudicially vntil such time as he reforme them He is loth to haue his 4 All this sect doeth stand more vpon their credite albeit the same be litle then vpon the trueth of their cause credite touched yet hath not hee spared his superiors against whom hee hath delt why wee should not handle these points there is neither law nor commandement nor reason to the contrary What cause then hath M. Cartwright to insinuate that I haue made a breach of christian modestie in speaking of them may not a man with christian modestie note the faults and errors of these men especially when they goe about to defend them I neuer sought quarell nor entred into these matters before I was thereto vrged and prouoked M. Cartwright I thinke doth know that I did not so much as mooue question of these matters before I was drawen into them by a lewd and contentious companion of that sect that in a booke entituled A petition would needs name me and mooue diuers questions to the disgrace of the present gouernment of the church of which I am a minister and therefore deepely therein interessed and to the discredite of diuers good men and my good friends nor before that Iob Throk a great champion of puritane chiualrie and a noble pillar of Martinisme would needes charge me with slandering of the whole brotherhood of deformation and goe about to iustifie the chiefe heads and maintainers of that faction being then named in print and railed at in print and called foorth in print to iustifie what I had sayd how could I with any honestie forbeare to answere in print nay so farre am I from infringing any point of christian modestie in this behalf that I should greatly haue offended on the other side if being charged with diuers bad opinions and misdemeanors I should haue neglected them and held my peace Ruffinus doeth not thinke him to be a christian that being noted of heresie doeth dissemble the matter and hold his peace and Lawyers say quod negligere famam crudele est hee that striketh must not thinke much to haue his blowes warded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saieth Achilles Iliad 1. but these felowes when like Thersites they haue railed and spoken euill of others yea of princes doe disdaine to heare themselues iustly reprooued and most arrogantly disdaine to haue themselues touched most vaine therefore and causelesse is this complaint But I deale very hardly as he thinketh and vnchristianly that am not content with his imprisonment which satisfied their lordships which is a matter more then he knoweth sure more then I can learne or beleeue for albeit of fauour it pleased them and of their great benignitie and clemencie to inflict this punishment only yet how knoweth he that they were satisfied therewith especially seeing they are not yet discharged but were it true yet what a ridiculous point is it to thinke that men may not speake of matters for which malefactors are imprisoned especially when they or their friends doe repine and grudge at their punishment and pretend hard dealing and iniustice as the petitioner and Iob Throk did in the behalfe of M. Cartwr and others neither was the imprisonment of M. Cartwr so grieuous or costly to him that either himselfe or others should complaine or lament for the remembrance of it So soft was his lying so trim was his lodging so pleasaunt was his company so daintie was his fare so great were
the giftes hee had so diligent was his wife to rake in rewards that many braue men of good desert that serue her maiestie in her warres would bee content the shame onely except to exchange the commodity of their places with him but if these men haue not what they would or if their pillowes lie not right they thinke all men doe them wrong that doe not pitie them yea albeit they murmure at their iudges yet would they haue no man to open their mouth against them Lastly he entreth into comparison with me and saieth bee would be ashamed to come behind me in any duetie wherein it had bene good if he had hired M. Throk or some of his friends to speake for him This domesticall testimonie of himselfe sauoureth strongly of folly and arrogancie is litle to be respected yea albeit his deserts were greater yet is the comparison odious and loth I am to follow M. Cartwright in this vanitie yet thus much I may say for my selfe that I neuer was imprisoned for any vndutifull and disloyall opinions and misdemeanors as he hath bene neither did I euer hide my head in corners as hee hath done nor did I euer so neerely touch her maiesties royall prerogatiue her reuenues and her lawes as M. Cartwright did nor euer haue I written bookes in defence of a new gouernment of the church nor maintained the same directly against lawes as he hath done and doeth Againe I thinke M. Cartwright was neuer employed in her maiesties seruice as I haue bene now this fourth time yea while I was in her seruice in the iorney of Guadix hee emploied all his time and labour in setting foorth and printing this most simple briefe ô what brags would he make if euer he had done her maiestie seruice that is not now ashamed to brag of his duetifull behauiour towards her maiestie whose whole time hath bene emploied in oppugning that ecclesiasticall gouernment which by her authoritie is established so litle doeth he shame to looke into the crooked course of his whole life and studie For answere therefore to this obiection M. Cartwright doth insinuate that all other matters being equall he is behind me onely in his iudgement in matters of discipline which is vntrue for notwithstanding that iudgement he might haue done her maiestie seruice if he had would as I haue done Beside that this onely dealing of his about his fancifull discipline is matter sufficient to conuict him of notorious misdemeanors and vndutiful cariage of himselfe as hath bene declared neither is his defence of any moment where he saieth that many are of his opinion for in euery lewd practise there are lightly many consorts and heretikes and schismatikes want no folowers Beside that it is vntrue that many worthy churches and godly learned of this and other ages are of his opinion for before Caluins time his discipline was neuer heard of and albeit now some churches doe embrace his opinions herein yet doe they not consent with M. Cartwright in many points nor I thinke did they allow any negotiation and practise for the establishing of his new discipline in this land by forging railing libelling and disloiall dealing Would therfore M. Cartwr doe me this fauour in two other sheetes of paper to shew that godly learned men of other ages were of his opinion and that other churches allow his courses hee should cleare himselfe of the suspicion of a great and notorious vntrueth The rest of M. Cartwrights answere in this place is nothing but an idle digression nothing pertinent to the clearing of the obiection concerning his iudgement of Fenners booke and the authoritie by him giuen to certeine Ephori to ouerrule princes yet least hee should compleine hee were not answered I am to craue pardon if I examine this also He saith first that although I dare him not once but sundry times to answere touching these matters of discipline yet it is not so fit for him to vndertake it To this I answere first that albeit I should dare him yet it is no slander to his worship that I dare him it is rather shame for him that hee commeth not forth being dared Secondly he doth mee wrong to say I dare him for he dare do any thing yea things very absurd and vnlawfull But in deed I doe in diuers points challenge him to mainteine his bolde and rash assertions and that not to stirre contention but to shew that albeit he dare do it yet he can not mainteine his cause Thirdly I do mainteine that there is no man that hath more reason to answere in these causes then hee and that first for that he in this Church first of all in large books defended these opinions Now why should any bee thought more fit to speake then hee that first made challenge and entred the liftes in defence of this cause Secondly there is none whom that side doth more desire should answere then M. Cartwright Thirdly they imagine that none is more able Fourthly the cause of others is deserted Fiftly none promised or bragged so much as he Lastly of all men I would that M. Cartwright should specially answere that when it appeareth how the patriarch of discipline can say nothing his followers that are abused might soonest be mooued to change opinion And if neither his aduersaries prouocation nor his friends desire nor his owne reputation nor his cause deserted nor his owne great words and brags do moue him I see no excuse he can haue but the impossibilitie of defence and the vntrueth of matters heretofore defended by him He pretendeth age and forgetfulnesse but the first is not sufficient the second is absurd for he ought not to forget his duty nor what he is to say for himselfe Hee saith also that others are more able but I dare say he beleeueth it not and his friendes by no meanes will admit it Therefore when no iust excuse can be alledged of silence he proceedeth saying that if either his answere might haue allowance of print or passage himselfe in that weaknesse hee is in would not be behinde to answere any thing that I haue bene able to alledge in these matters as if hee might not as well print and passe his bookes at Geneua or Heidelberg as he did his first and second replies Beside that if the matters he standeth on be such as he saith then ought he to care for no allowance nor passage for if discipline bee a part of the Gospell and so constantly to be defended as that he ought to giue his life for it yea so many liues as he hath haires of his head these are no iust excuses why he should flie backe Further when hee printed his first bookes he desired neither passage nor allowance why then should hee nowe desire it more then then Is his heate of zeale cooled or is he growne wise nay he saith he is growne weake percase he hath taken some rheume or cold that hath disordred the records of his fancie which