Selected quad for the lemma: friend_n
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A83819
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The report made to the honourable House of Commons, Decemb. 15. 1699. By the commissioners appointed to enquire into the forfeited estates of Ireland
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Ireland. Commissioners appointed to enquire into the Forfeited Estates.
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1700
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Wing E2704AC; ESTC R200771
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named were there the next day Mr. Speaker Who was by Sir R. Leving My Ld Dr-gh-da nor Sir F. Brewster were there but the rest were there and the Secretary I believe was there The next day when we met again there was present as I inform'd you all the Commissioners and then Mr. Trenchard amongst other Discourse did express himself in the said manner and Mr. Annesly said that he had received Letters from Members of the House Mr. Speaker But Mr. Annesly nor Mr. Trenchard did not tell you the Contents of those Letters nor from whom they received them Sir R. Leving They said they had Letters to report this Estate but they did not as I remember name any body tho I did hear from my Ld Dr-gh-da and Sir Francis Brewster that they had named Persons but I did not my self take particular notice of any Body Mr. Speaker Did they produce any Letter or shew you any Sir R. Leving Not then Mr. Speaker When did you see any Sir R. Leving I did see a Letter the next morning and that Letter was shew'd to me by Mr. Annesly but I did not think that Letter came up to the point they spake over night Mr. Speaker Can you remember the Contents of it Sir R. Leving I had rather refer my self to the Letter I believe Mr. Annesly has it Mr. Speaker Who wrote it Sir R. Leving Must I name him Mr. Speaker Yes the House expects it of you Sir R. Leving His name is Mr. Arthur Moore And I did then take notice of it to Mr. Annesly that this Letter did not amount to what they told us the night before Mr. Speaker You say you said to Mr. Annesly you told us of a Letter you received from some Members to report this private Estate but this Letter does not come up to what you told us Upon which Mr. Annesly answered as for himself If we do not report that private Estate we had as good do nothing Sir R. Leving I don't say so Upon recollection I do now believe that those Gentlemen Mr. Trenchard and Mr. Annesly did say that there was contained in the Letter that Expression that if they did not put that Estate into the Report they had as good do nothing but when I once saw that Letter I thought they had imposed upon us Then Sir P. Leving withdrew and all the rest of the Commissioners that were then in town with their Secretary were ordered to be brought in And accordingly Sir Francis Brewster Mr. Annesly Mr. Trenchard Mr. Langford and Mr. Hooper their Secretary were brought in Mr. Speaker Gentlemen I am commanded to enquire of you and if you please you may speak severally to it The House has been informed of some discourses among you Gentlemen of this Commission when you differed in opinion about returning of King James's private Estate the first time Mr. Trenchard was not there and the next day that Mr. Trenchard was brought there but I think the Discourse the House would enquire after was the 2d day when Mr. Trenchard was there which was to this Effect That some Argument being given why this Estate was Forfeiture and other Arguments being given it was not one of the Commissioners as this House hath been informed should say if it be not within our Commission 't is a flying in the King's face Upon which another Commissioner made answer Why the Commission it self flies in the King's face And for what are we sent hither but to fly in the Kings face or to that effect Members No no. Mr. Speaker I beg Pardon if I mistake the words were to this effect The Commission flies in the King's face and if you will not fly in his face you must not or you cannot execute this Commission You are all said to be present when these words were spoken So you will please to give account severally to the House what passed upon this occasion and what you remember of it Sir Francis Brewster if you please Sir Francis Brewster I beg leave to say I am sorry for any differences between us and that we were as hearty as any in the execution of this Commission But for the matter of the words now spoke of there was some Discourse concerning the reporting that private Estate Sir R. Leving said it was not within our Enquiry To which some Reply was made why if it was not within our Commission yet it might be fit to be reported My Ld Dr-gh-da made answer If it be not within our Commission then it will be to fly in the King's face to report it Another then said the Commission flies in the King's face and we can't act in this Commission unless we fly in his face I think that was said by Mr. Hamilton Upon which some other Arguments went on to enforce the passing of it At last some of the Commissioners said they had a Letter from several Members of the House of Commons that gave them reason to believe they should report this Estate I think it was said by Mr. Annesly Upon which Sir R. Leving made answer I do not think these Gentlemen have changed their minds that was that Forfeitures might be made by Kings upon which it was answered you are mistaken a great many of your Friends are now come over to us and they urged it still more and at last they said they had had several Letters about it I must confess I made answer I know not whether you have had any Letter I never had any But I must needs say if I had no other reason I should not sign this Report for I think I ought not to be directed by any private Member of the House of Commons and that no Letter should prevail with me to do it I am loth to name any one Mr. Speaker The House expects it Sir F. Brewster I think they named Mr. Harcourt Mr. Speaker Who named him Sir F. Brewster Mr. Annesly He did not say in his Letter particularly but did say something to that purpose that if we did not report the private Estate we had as good do nothing and he said it was so in the Letter Mr. Speaker Was you at Mr. Trenchard's Chamber the first night that he was not at the Commission the night before he was brought thither Sir F. Brewster No Sir I was not Mr. Speaker Mr. Annesly If you please to give an Account of what you know of this matter you hear to what the House hath a mind to be informed 't is as to the Discourse that happened amongst you the Commissioners the 2 days you differed in opinion concerning the inserting of this Grant into your Report and particularly as to the words spoken by Mr. Hamilton or what else you heard then Mr. Annesly Truly Mr. Speaker I never expected to have been called to an account for any thing that was said among the Commissioners in Ireland upon their debates or that any Gentleman in Commission with us would have acted such a part here
otherwise I should have been more observant thereof but the particular Expressions which some of us are charged with by the Evidence now given are of so extraordinary a nature that I could not easily have forgotten them flying in the face of the King is so great a Reflection and so foolish an Expression that I think I could not have passed it by without the Censure it deserved Sir I do affirm to you upon my Reputation my Credit and all that is dear to me that I never heard the least Reflection upon the King by any of the Commissioners either in their Debates or otherwise in execution of their Authority When I had the Honour to be appointed by you one of your Commission I naturally reflected upon the part I was to act in it the many enemies I must in likelihood create upon a faithful Discharge of my Duty as well amongst Men in power the Grantees as the Purchasers and others claiming under them of which I had some knowledg having been formerly in Ireland However I was resolved upon a very short notice not only to subject my own private Concerns to Disappointments but to dispose of other Mens business with which in the way of my profession I was intrusted to their best advantage in my absence In discharge whereof I did act and I hope it will appear I did so with all imaginable Integrity And it will be my hard fortune if after such my Endeavours I should fall under your Displeasure As to what is alledged with respect to Mr. Harcourt I do not remember that I ever mentioned his Name upon any Debate at our board whereby to influence any Man in his Judgment nor indeed upon any other account except in private Conversation by drinking his Health and by expressing my self with that gratitude which became me towards one whom I had received particular Obligations from and deserved well from me I never had any Letter from Mr. Harcourt that took the least notice of the private Estate nor indeed that related to the execution of our Commission except in one Letter he said I might easily imagine with what pleasure he heard of the success of our Labours and that he was glad to find by the account I gave him that the Forfeitures were likely to answer the End for which we were sent over and that was the only Letter I received from him during my stay in Ireland hearing abroad of such a Letter being mentioned in the House I lookt all the Letters I received from any of the Gentlemen of this House during my stay in Ireland but I own I am very unwilling to produce the Letters of any person who favoured me with his correspondence and do hope I shall not be obliged to it Mr. Speaker For that you will have the further pleasure of the House but do you say you never heard of those words of flying in the King's face or that your Commission did fly in the King's Face Mr. Annesly From the time we first began to execute our Commission till our Power was determined I never was absent one hour I think I may say one moment from business and I assure you I never heard those words nor any thing like them fall from any one of the Commissioners As to the Debate among the Commissioners about returning the private Estate some hot words did pass and I will take notice to you if you please of some of them The Gentleman on my left hand did give very abusive Language to one of the other Commissioners Mr. Speaker To whom Mr. Annesly To Mr. Trenchard Another of the Commissioners said he would battle it with us at the Bar of the House of Commons Mr. Speaker Who was that Mr. Annesly That was my Lord Dr-gh-da Says Sir Francis Brewster I have as good Friends as you meaning Mr. Trenchard and we shall be as well heard there as you Mr. Trenchard answered I don't fear what you can do if you won't be an Evidence against me the ill Language Sir Francis gave forced that Expression from him the Resentments were high and the rest of the Commissioners then present endeavoured to pacify and make them Friends I own I then little suspected that Sir Francis that took the Expression so ill would have made good Mr. Trenchard's words at this Bar if I had I should have taken more notice of what passed There might be some other particulars that Sir F. Brewster has charged us with which I may have omitted answering if you please Sir to remind me of them I will give them the best Answer I can Mr. Speaker Mr. Trenchard if you please to give the House an Account of what you know of this matter Mr. Trenchard I was present at the Debate about the private Estate which was managed with great warmth and much said on both sides but I do not remember one word which this Gentleman speaks of that was directly so said I do own there were some words that might give umbrage to this Accusation with those that were resolved to misunderstand them The occasion was this My Ld Dr-gh-da as I remember or Sir Richard Leving said it would be flying in the King's Face to report this Grant Upon which one of the Commissioners replied my Lord We have heard too much of this Argument already and 't is time to have done with it we were not sent here to flatter and if the enquiring into the mismanagement of the Forfeitures be a flying in the King's Face then our whole Commission is a flying in his Face 'T is not dishonouring but vindicating his Majesty to shew he has been abused by ill Men and I doubt not but he will desert them when he has discovered it as the best and wisest Princes in all Ages have done More than this I do affirm upon the Reputation of a Gentleman and the word of an honest Man was not said whilst I was at the Board Mr. Speaker Who said the words you have repeated Mr. Trenchard 'T was I Sir Mr. Speaker You don't remember that Mr. Hamilton said any thing as to the flying in the King's Face Mr. Trenchard I do affirm that Mr. Hamilton to the best of my memory and I think I could not mistake it did not say any words relating to that matter more than that since we had enquired into the private Estate and it was known in both England and Ireland we should be thought bribed and corrupt if we did not report it but I am very sure he said no words dishonourable of his Majesty and if he had I would have resented it at the time as I suppose these Gentle men would have done and call'd upon others to have taken notice of it Mr. Speaker What words did you hear said in your Chamber Mr. Trenchard A great part of the time I was in that Kingdom I was confined to my Chamber being sick which I impute in a great measure to the fatigue of our Commission during which time