yet assume and challenge to themselves the Name when they have in no wise the thing it self but do lack not only all these causes that did concur to the due creation thereof but also all those vertues gifts and faculties that did accompany and shew themselvs in the right administration or exercise of the same wherefore your Ordainers be like to certain Impostors that profess indeed the true Art of Physick but cannot give a proof thereof by healing any one disease Away then with this fasting praying hand-laying Ordination which was never yet followed nor attested by a miracle or any other visible effect t is no better then that * Mat. 21.19 fig-tree that bare indeed leaves but no fruit at all Shortly after he mustereth up a number of things and calls them Doctrines by your Party aâ—…erted to which I forbear to answer he having not respectively cited the Books and pages where they might be found In the mean time it may not seem good proof that such or such a thing is truth because so saith Thomas Lye Neither ought it to be charged on our friends for error or blasphemie if they sometimes mistake the meaning of words they being in this behalf unlearned as also most of Christs Disciples and Ministers were whiles the learned Rabbles and Priests were bitter opposers and persecutors both of him and them section 5 T L. Whether those godly Priests and Prophets that lived by a standing-maintenance are those that are accused by Micah 3.11 to teach for hire c. Answ Here would ye methinks allude and compare your maintenance to that of the godlie Priests and Prophets of old time First Where in all the Old-Testament find you this Epithet godly standing so near the word Priest I am sure it 's a very rare conjunction Neither is your implied comparison a vvhit better theirs that is the Priests and Levites was a voluntarie contribution and of God himself ordained your's a forcible exaction and by humane Law if any whereof more hereafter section 6 Neither was this Querent vvell advised when he scoffed at She Prophetesses as he hath done it being a part of Joels Prophesies I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh saith God and your sons and your daughters shall prophesie c. Also Priscilla was one of those two that instructed eloquent Apollos in the things of the Gospel God gave the word and great was the company of the She-Preachers as the Hebrew reads it Psal 68.11 section 7 T. L. Whether Christ hath not ordained That they that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel and that they which sow spiritual things should reap carnal things 1 Cor. 9.11,13,19 Answ To sue men at Law for tithes to recover trebble damages to distrain mens goods and take much more then is claimed is this to live of the Gospel Did ever any Priest or Prophet in the times of the Law or any Apostle or Minister since the Gospel so live either of the Law or Gospel Or will ye else grant us That never any of Christs Ministers mentioned in the Scriptures did live of the Gospel Is it not much rather to be said That to live of the Gospel is to live of such Alms and Contribution as men freelie give to Ministers as such and that vvithout the awe of any outward co-action terror of trebble damages or other peril section 8 Obj. We also live of such means as the Magistrate hath freely allotted for our maintenance Answ If indeed the Magistrate or other shall give of his own private Goods or Lands to what kind of Preachers soever for their livelihood I have nothing here to gain-say But if he shall give them that which is another man's without his consent to keep them in idleness I see not how this can be justified by the Scriptures or by any sound reason This also were repugnant to Christs own Otdinance namely That they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel and to live of the Gospel is not to live of any inforced maintenance as above is shewn neither can you produce any one such Ordinance of Christ that the Magistrate ought to take such course for the livelihood of his Ministers Now the Ordinance above intreated and to which the Scripture cited in the Quaery hath reference we find in Luk. 10.7,8 And in the same house remain eating and drinking such things as they give for the labourer is worthy of his hire And into whatsoever City ye enter and they receive you eat such things as are set before you From whence I note these things 1. That the Apostles were to eat such things only as were freely ministred to them 2. By them who should receive them 3. Of their meat who having a private and proper right therein should so give or cause to be given Now whether the men of your qualitie do live after this manner and rule let all sober men be Judges And albeit it were true that you sowed indeed to your hearers spiritual things yet should you not therefore reap their carnal by force muchless take them being reaped Now what kind of Seed it is you sowe doth by the Fruit appear section 9 Obj. But if we have nothing allowed for our maintenance but must depend of the charity of our hearers soon may we either beg or starve Ans Wherefore if God so cloth the grasse of the field which to day is and to morrow is cast into the Oven shall he not much more clothe you O ye of little faith Therefore take no thought saying What shall we eat or what shall we drink or wherewith shall we be clothed for after all these things do the Gentiles or Heathen seek Matth. 6.30,31,32,33 Now if so great be Gods care of ordinary Christians how much more shall he provide for his Ministers who are as it were his Embassadors and have specially addicted themselves to his service Are you his choice Darlings unto bliss eternal and wil not yet trust him vvith your bodies Are you his Labourers and vvill not yet relie on him for your Wages no not though you have his own word for it and solemn Engagement What greater infidelity then this hath any of the Gentiles ever bewrayed Neither can you avoid the Edge of this Sword by saying Your petitioning the Magistrate indenting with the people for maintenance c. is no distrusting of God for your livelihood forasmuch as the provision God makes hath made for his Ministers Livelihood is by inclining mens hearts to supply their necessities and that out of their own private goods and not out of other mens as elsewhere I have said section 10 T.L. Then do men preach for hire when they make hire their chiefest end c. Answ Yea and if they make hire any end at all do they truly preach for hire Neither are we justlie charged to intrench on Gods prerogative in that we do judg you to preach for hire for certes that can be no
far dissenting from the rest of their brethren that have not yet stained themselves with the guilt of any the things above remembred yet likely it is that even these also have tacitely and in heart assented thereto and approved the same Or if there bee who are even hitherto clear yet I challenge you all to this viz. To name me the man amongst ye that openly and of his own accord hath rebuked and earnestly testified against those many open sins and abuses which their Hearers daily commit on those that are called Quakers Or that hath so qualified and disposed them afore hand by sound teaching godlie instruction and example of innocent life that they be not now apt to commit or intend such violence and fury But why appeal ye to Heaven Is it hence because that ye fear to refer your cause to the judgement of anie here on earth But whatever it be if ye so will appeal I assure ye we dare to join with you herein provided ye will interpose good Caution to meet us there for this of your part do we verie much doubt except ye mend your lives while ye be here on earth But to what end hast thou mentioned the Marian dayes in the following Quere You are not much liker those Martyrs in spirit and temper of mind though you succeed them in name of religion and certain opinions then the Popes are like Peter whose Successors they likewise pretend to be section 72 What godly men do we call Vipers Serpents children of the Devll false deceivers even such persons as holy men have formerly branded with the self-same names And therefore ought you neither to call us Raylers for so useing these names unlesse you can prove that these also who so have done before us were Railers too section 73 T. L. To run up and down starke naked as one of your Brethren at Exeter and one of your Sisters at Westminister c. Ans I know not of any of our friends that so have done as here is surmised As for one of them I am sure he was disown'd of our friends and touching the other whom you call our Sister I am verily perswaded shee never was acknowledged as such a one by our friends neither Note here Reader that albeit so many evil eyes do so diligently watch for our haultings yet the accuser was fain when he had objected one trifle done at Exeter to go as far as Westminster for a nother Thus is the charge not only repelled but turned even greatly to our commendation and praise section 74 T. L. Whether those that professe such Doctrines mentioned S. 3. 3. before and are guilty of such practices as are not to be once named amongst us Ans No what think ye then of Adam and Eve and of Isaiah the Prophet for all these did go naked and that a far longer time then those above named are said to have done Is it long of your super-excellent holynesse and purity of mind that such things as were done in the state of Innocency by the greatest of Prophets would yet annoy your eares if they were but named amongst you as we have them quoted in Fords Answer to Speed will stand with that Innocency c. Ans Read Speeds reply to Fords Answer and thou shalt finde his refuge of lyes to be swept away But what kinde of proofe is this One of you invents a crime against us then reports it to another or prints it himself and ever after this serves for Iudicial evidence whenever you have occasion to use it And generally concerning such accusations and crimes as were objected or witnessed against our friends by any of the mercenary Teachers this I say and admonish that as their testimonies and authorities are not to be regarded much lesse believed because such men are both our mortal Enemies and also parties themselves in most the controversies and contests wherein we are engaged This Ford is the man of whom when he lived in the Western parts this jest was carried about viz. That he had stolen the Bishops Lawn Sleeves to make him boot-hose topps of then was he noted of pride I have also since heard of him that he is a very troublesom man to his Parishioners in exacting of tythes here he is taxed of covetousnesse and of crueltie Mark now Reader what kinde of men they be that witnesse against us For thou maist ghesse the Lyon by his paw as the saying is section 75 T. L. Whether though all inordinate care concerning the things of this life be a sin yet all holy carefull duties to preserve our lives be not our duty Eph. 5.28 Gen. 30.30 1. Tim. 5.28 Answ Call ye these holy carefull Studies to preserve your lives namely to begg of the Magistrate or Patron power to receive 100. or 200. l. per Annum for preaching the divinations of your brain To cast men into prison and be but for 12 d. To begger your Neighbors whom you ought to love better with long and costly suits at the Law and that upon false pretexts as is afore shewn To †See I Bensons book hereof distrain their goods and take much more then ye claim To procure a supplement of Augmentations though yee had a sufficient yea many times a large maintenance before to seek Annexation of another neighbor Benefice to that you had before if your friends shall but estimate it within a 100 l. per annum though it happen many times to be more worth which practise heretofore in the Episcopal Clergy was even by the men of your own Sect greivously censured and condemned I say are such as these your holy careful Studies to preserve your lives What could the very Heathen have done more in point of self-preservation then you have done Even such holy careful duties as these were those of Micah's Priests and Prophets ch 3. Vers 11. Isaiah's also Ieremiah's finally Peter Iudes false Teachers murmurers complainers c. did practice like holy careful Studies to preserve their lives Where at length may we find those Belly-Gods Phil. 3.19 if these be not they where them that mind earthly things if not here Would it seem here Reader to have ought of the nature or likenesse of a Slander to call such men as these be Hireling Shepherds and ravening wolves and greedy Doggs that never can have enough And yet will they say they be reviled as oft as they be so called As if it implied no inconvenience at all to be counted true Ministers of Christ and at the same time to be the Devils Servants in doing all manner of sin I say moreover that they that are holy do cast their care on the Lord who careth for them and they that will save or preserve their lives shall lose them section 76 T L. Whether the penalty of not eating be not to be inflicted on those that are Idlers in Gods Vineyard and on such of your partie as wander and labor not Answ