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A05456 Cyuile and vncyuile life a discourse very profitable, pleasant, and fit to bee read of all nobilitie and gentlemen : where, in forme of a dialoge is disputed, what order of lyfe best beseemeth a gentleman in all ages and times ... 1579 (1579) STC 15589.5; ESTC S106722 50,662 109

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also to their powers enhabled to trauaile countreyes haunt the warres In which trades of life although touchinge their persons there bee greater perrill then in study at home yet sith the common weale may not wante such men and those knowledges not gotten without perrill I iudge it a lesse euill to hazard mens bodies in them though many perish then vtterly to want them and haue our children safe at home Euery man by nature is condemned to die better it is to aduenture an honest death then to continue an improfitable life To answere the rest of your speech that in warre in Court and Cittie is great store of euill company Thereto I say there is also many good Therfore good counsaile of freends honest discretion of young men may learne them to make choise Besides that it is good to know euill not to vse it but to auoyd it and for the most part things are indefferent and not perfit Besides vertue there is nothing in perfection good nor besides vice nothing in perfection euill Therfore though your childe must needes know some euill in learning good yet is it better hee know it with some hazard then want his good for feare of that hazard If no man would approch the fier because it hath burned many a house and many a heedlesse man also that haue fallen into it then would many a one freeze to death though the Sea hath drowned many thousands yet no wisdome would that sayling should bee forbidden for as erst I sayd in euery thing excepting vertue is commodity and discommodity when the good doth or may surpasse the bad no man doth or at the least ought shun the aduenture where good is the marke and the end honest Vincent In good faith Sir you haue spoken more then euer I did heretofore consider for in deede when I bethinke mee of your discourse I remēber how diuersely my poore children are in nature affected some of thē are of thē selues very bookish others for none entisement or compulsion can be brought to learn so as I suppose you say truly that if I durst hazard their persons suffer them to try their fortune abroad they might attaine to sumwhat And Fortune as some Clerkes say is very freendly to folke aduenturous Vallentine Well I am glad my speech hath drawen you to consideration of any good thing before either vnthought of or forgottē But I am sure you take my mening as it is to remēber you not to coūcel you Vincent Sir I thanke you that you yeeld mee that honor to say so this proceedeth of your fauour But I must confesse troth that I neuer cast my minde so far from home And I therby conceiue that a common wealth hath occasion aswell to imploy men expert in warre as others learned in lawes though of these wee haue most vse Vallentine Yea Sir therof assure your selfe and in some Countryes where God hath suffered vnquietnes there is more want of good Capitaynes then learned Doctors yea in such estate hath our Country beene and may bee for nothing is assured but besides Warriers Princes haue occasion to imploy many other Gentlemen of experience For I can accompt vnto you sundry honest quallities that are very cōmendable in men and necessary for the state Vincent Fayne would I bee enformed of all But first let mee intreat you to tell what are or ought to bee the cheefe professions of a Gentleman Vallentine That can I doo and in few wordes Vincent So much the better for my memory shall the more easely beare them away therfore without more request I pray you proceede Vallentine The cheefe and onely professions wherby a Gentleman should receaue aduancement or commendacion are Armes and Learninge For in these two onely should hee exercise him selfe Vincent Surely Sir they seeme to bee noble quallities but I thinke hard to excel in them But is not Husbandry Tillage Grasinge Marchandize buying and selling with such other trades as wee Country men vse thinges meete for a Gentleman Vallentine In plaine speeche I tell you that I thinke not one of them fit for a gentlemans exercise Vincent And why so are they not commonly vsed of Gentlemen and by them they doo receaue daily profit the lawes doo allowe of them as thinges commendable Also by them many poore yonger Bretheren without lande as commonly they are all doo by the Plough maintayne him selfe his wife and famyly Vallentine A poore maintenance and a flow thrifte God knoweth and full euill it becommeth the person of a Gentleman to practise any of these trades Vincent Then I pray you tell mee how many wayes a man without land may gayne his lyuinge Gentlemanlike Vallentine There are three wayes to doo it Vincent And which are they I pray you informe mee Vallentine There is Arte Industry and Seruice Vincent What you meane by euery of these I pray you let mee know for I am borne I thanke God to some reuenues of mine owne and therfore haue litle studied to attaine to any thinge saue that my lotte hath brought mee vnto Vallentine The better is your fortune that haue by succession only the whole fruite of all your auncestors trauaile Vincent Euen so it is in deed I thanke God them for it But I pray you answere to that I aske you Vallentine Such Artes as I wish a Gentleman sholud learne must be those that commonly are called Lyberall Sciences Which and how many there bee of them you may easely know yea and to what purpose they serue Vincent But tell mee are not the lawes a study very fit for a Gentleman Vallentine Yes surely both the lawes Ciuill Common are studies most excellent to speake breefely all learnings that tend to action in the state either Ciuill or Martiall Vincent Now you seeme to talke of great misteries but wee gentlemen in the Country vnlesse our sonnes proceed in the study of the cōmon lawes Diuinitie or Phisicke doo holde them learned ynough if they can write and read English and congrue Latine Vallentine If your sonne wade no deeper in learning better vntaught at all And I am of this minde that these common Schooles wherof in England are many that receaue all sortes of children to bee taught bee their Parents neuer so pore and the Boyes neuer so vnapt doo often times rather harme the good because there they continue so long as a good misterie or occupation might haue bin learned For as I say vnles the childe be apt for learning and his freendes resolute in holdinge him to it the thinge were better vnattempted Vincent Now Maister Vallentine you seeme to speake straungly as though VVrighting Reading and the Lattin tongue were nothing worth Vallentine Sir I do not so say but to gaine a lyuing by thē without further learninge I thinke it hard And therfore poore men that put so many vnapte chyldren to the Schole do nothing els but offer them losse of time For do you not meete many beggers
entertaininge and sparinge doo maintayne theyr honours and worships Vallentine You speake well for these sortes of seruauntes I lust not yet a while to reply I pray you say on Are these all that his folly foolish ambition doth entertaine you must not tell what I say Vincent I am sure you speake merrily but yet I will proceede these sortes of men bee the most number But besides them wee haue Subseruingmen as I may call them seldome in fight As Bakers Brewers Chamberlaines Wardrobers Faulkeners Hunters Horsekeepers Lackeies and for the most parte a naturall Foole or Iester to make vs sporte Also a Cooke with a Scullin or two Launderers Hynes and Hogheards with some other silly slaues as I know not how to name them Vallentine I thought I had knowen all the retinue of a Noble mans or Gent. house But now I finde I do not for it semeth a whole Army or Camp and yet shal I tell you truely what I thinke this last number though it bee least is the more necessary sorte of seruaunts because these serue necessity and the other superfluity or I may call it ambition But altogeather they make a world For my parte I had rather haue a litle with quiet then a great deale with such confusion for though money and prouision bee plentifull in the Countrey yet spending and eating deuoureth all and for ought I conceaue there is no great charity in feedinge of many of these men who eate much and get litle Vincent I must confesse it true that our charge is great and some of them are also prowde and euill natured people as were it not for their Parents sakes who bee our good freendes or Tennaunts wee would many times discharge our houses of them But partly for those respects and partly for feare beeing out of seruice they should fall into offence of law wee kepe them though to our great charge and discontent for well you know it were great pittie to see a tall fellow to clyme a Gibbet Vallentine Euen so it were in deed and yet if you hap to haue in your ground a fayre great Tree that yeelds you no fruit but with the dowes therof ouer droppeth an Aker of grasse which therby I meane for want of sunne shine cannot prosper were it not better to hew downe this tree then for the onely beauty therof suffer it to grow to your continuall losse and hinderance Vincent Yes mary would I but to what purpose would you apply this Parrable Vallentine I can compare a c●●ly vnquallified seruaunt to this Tree for if hee can none other good but shew forth his proper person nor intendeth to bee more profitable it maketh no great matter what becommeth of him cheefely if hee bee vnhonest and of euil condicion Let not that therfore comber your conscience but a gods name prefer your profit beefore the releefe or maintenaunce of such ydle folke Vincent In very deed syr I haue heard of learned Clerks that God and nature hath made nothing in vaine wherupō I iudge that men who can no good the fault is rather their owne then natures yet doth it sumwhat stay in my stomack to discharge a lusty fellow though his conditions bee but skantly commendable And the reason is because hee becommeth a house well Vallentine If that bee all that bindeth you to your charge I will tell you how you shall better cheape furnish your house then of these persons of whom you haue no other vse then to looke on them because they are cumly Vincent As how I pray you for considering the smal seruice they doo and yet are men healthy sound I suppose it is no great charity to keepe them Vallentine What I meane to tell you is this that you were best to cause al their pictures to be drawen in their best array and hange them vp in your Hall and you shall finde them as seemely furniture as the men them selues and yet they will put you to no cost eyther in meate money or cloth Vincent You speake merrily but yet in good faith reasonably and truely for sith these men bee sound and stronge and will notwithstanding bee ydle I beleeue to keepe them cheefely with euill condicions is no great charitie and hauinge no seruice at their handes I cannot maintaine reasonably that they are profitable Vallentine I am very glad that you are perswaded to see that many thinges vsed in the Country accompted godly bee not euer as they seeme Vincent In deede I yeelde vnto you and had I considered so much a dozen yeares since it would haue saued mee two thousande poundes of victuals that these good fellowes haue deuoured But tell mee touching my next allegation honour and worship Vallentine To that I say that your honor or worship resteth not either in your Countrey aboade or keeping of many seruaunts but rather in your owne vertue For though wise men for curtesy fooles through simplicitie doo salute you with reuerence yet must you not thinke your selfe the more honorable vnlesse you be in deede vertuous I meane wise valyaunt iust temperate liberall affable modest and in somme indued with all sortes or at the least wise with some vertuous morrall and commendable condicions wherby you may be known and at occasions vsed in the seruice of our Prince and Country either Martially or Ciuilly for those bee occupations of all nobility in which word is included all sortes of Gentlemen aswell those that beare greatest Tytles as they that haue lesse Vincent I finde it far otherwise then you say for albeit a man bee as few are in possession of all these vertues which you say doth onely make men honourable yet if hee bee no Householder nor keeper of seruaunts you see that in his Countrey neither the neighbours will loue him nor the people do him reuerence Vallentine I did not nor will not speake agaynst householdinge nor yet haue I inuayed agaynst keping of honest and necessary seruauntes but against the superfluitie in either For I confesse that hospitallity bee it in Towne or Country is good and godly and also a testimony of liberality which is a great vertue and very commendable But therwith bee content that I tell you that though all good housekeepers bee the more honourable yet euery one that can not or doth not kepe house or seruaunt must therfore bee disdained or holden vile Vincent I know not what ye mean by disdain or vilety but I am sure be a man neuer so vertuous vnles hee be a housekeper no mā wil in the country resort vnto him or if hee walke in the Cittie without seruants attending on him no man wil put off his cap or do him reuerence how can then such a man bee honorable Vallentine Yes yes syr as much or perhaps a great deale more then hee that spendes a thousand poundes a yeare in his house or hath in the Towne twenty men to follow him For though a vertuous man doth walke alone for lacke of abillity
dayes to honour Ladyes although to serue them daily in Courte and dalliance I holde olde men farre vnmeete Vincent I am satisfied and because you haue so ofte addressed mee to the Earle Baldazar I will speake no more of Courte but come home to the Cittie which is or ought to bee our habitacion Doth it please you to commaunde mee anye seruice there Vallentine No seruice good syr but desire you will commaund mee wherin I am able Vincent I know your abilitie to bee much more then I will imploye But sithe you so freely offer your selfe I praye you but not commaund you to tell what is your order of life in the Cittie and which bee your exercises both of body and minde Vallentine The manner of the most Gentlemen and Noble men also is to house them selues if possible they may in the Subburbes of the Cittie because moste commonly the ayre there beeinge som●●h●● at large the place is healthy and through the distaunce from the bodye of the Towne the noyse not much and so consequently quiet Also for commoditie wee finde many lodginges both spacious and roomethy with Gardaines and Orchardes very delectable So as with good gouernment wee haue as litle cause to feare infection there as in the verye Countrey our water is excellente and much better then you haue anye our ground and feeldes most pleasaunte our fier equall with yours This much touchinge the site of our Towne dwellinge and the Elements Vincent Then my desire is to know how you be furnisshed of al sortes of prouision as flesh and fish beere and bread wood and coale hay and oates with euery other thing needfull either for your ordinary expences or for feastinge your freendes at occasions Vallentine All these thinges wee haue with lesse labour then you of the Countrey where the same doth grow For either it is brought to our very Gates and offered vs or els in the Market hard at hand wee may buy it Vincent But so dearely as euery penny worth of prouision in the Countrey is worth three of yours Vallentine That may hap so to bee and yet as I tolde you 〈…〉 afforde a penny for three Egges in the Cittie then for nine in the Country Vincent And how can that bee is not nine more then three and will goe further Vallentine Yes truly but sithe a penny in Egges wil serue the turne for my few I keepe in the Cittie And your penny though it bringeth you more plenty yet seeinge you haue so much people as will deuoure it commeth not the matter to one reckoninge saue that the aduauntage is ours that in rostinge our three Egges is not so great troubles as yours in rosting of nine Vincent Certainely Maister Vallentine you are an excellent Arithmetrition among egges But I pray you tell mee how shal our children bee brought vp and where shall wee haue Scoolemaisters to teache them Vallentine A great number of better then any Sir Iohn of the Countrey who most commonly teacheth your children that him selfe knoweth not and yet either because you are lothe your Babes should be set far from your sleeues or that there you may haue thē taught best cheape you will in no wise seeke out a skilfull Tutor in deede But when you shal inhabite the Cittie you haue there choice of excellent Maisters not only for the Grammer and such boy studies but also in all sortes of learning Vincent That is a very good thinge and an excellent commodity Now I desire you to 〈…〉 mee what repare will bee to our houses and how wee are to entertaine them for I am ignoraunt in all because I neuer dwelt in the Cittie Vallentine Of my former speeche comparing the Country custome with ours you might haue gathered that vnoccasioned or not contryued no man will resort vnto your Town house except he be your brother your sonne or some dere frend whom you accompt as your selfe els none without occasion which happening they that seke you are so respectiue as neither at the howre of dinner or supper they will looke you if their busines doth not very much vrge them And if happely you do inuite any of what condition soeuer hee bee his seruauntes doo not charge you no nor trouble you for they retire till such time as their Maister haue dined of what degree or title so euer is sayd Lorde or Maister bee So as the greatest Lord shal no more pester your Hall or disorder your prouision then the least gentleman or meanest freend except it bee that for one meale you will to honour the great guest make your fare the better Vincent That is a great sauing to my purse and sparing mee from trouble In Country the custome is contrary the charge of our Halles is more then our owne Table and the trouble to serue the seruants exceeding But when wee haue no company but by these happes wee shal be I suppose very solitary Vallentine Euen ●o much as pleaseth your selfe for when you lust to tarry alone no man will presse you if you wil be accompanied a small conuitation will traine freendes vnto you and these men of more ciuilitie wisedome and worth then your rude Countrey Gentlemen or rusticall Neighboures If you delight in graue men sober you shal easely acquaint your selfe with such If you pleasure in myrth and pleasant companions they are at hand If you like of learned men there are they found If you wil hauke or hunt there are Faukners hunters enough If you will ride there are horsemen And to bee shorte you shall neuer lacke company fit for your honour age and desire Vincent I am very glad of those newes for wee Countrey Gentlemen loue not to eate nor dwell alone But yet mee thinke I shall hazard my health notwithstandinge if my body bee diseased as it may bee whersoeuer I dwell wee may haue I suppose plenty of Phisitions to cure vs The wante of which men is cause that in the Countrey many do I think daily perish whose liues might by their skill bee preserued Vallentine Yea certainly syr many in deede for want of good medecines doo no doubt miscarry And euen in mine own experience I haue knowē a Gentleman or two that were driuen to die for want of a poore Surgion or a Barbor to let them blood Vincent The more is the pitty Now hauing hard what site I shall haue for my towne habitation and likewise how I may be accompanied I desire to know with what matters I shall entertaine my minde and exercise my body Vallentine I haue tolde you often and euer will tell you that the cheefe and principall studies and delight of a Gentleman must bee learninge and Armes And therfore such as haue ciuilly brought vp do seldom muse on other matters For though they refuse not for company conuersation to hauke hunte fish and fowle Bowle or coyte or any other honest pastime yet is our most continuall exercise eyther studie or ridinge of great and seruiceable