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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
friend_n	answer_v	ask_v	see_v	761	5	2.8567	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A95679	Gainsayer convinced: or, An answer to a certain scandalous paper, subscribed and sent by certain seduced and seditious people to a minister in the countrey: in which the calling of the ministry of the Church of England, the nature of a visible church, the power of the magistrate under the gospel, the right of tithes, with many other points now in controversie, are briefly, fully and plainly cleared, to the satisfaction of those that are wavering; also much of the spirit and many of the errours of the Anabaptists of these daies (who call themselves saints) discovered and confuted. / By T.T. Preacher of the word at Kemble in Wiltshire.	Thache, Thomas, b. 1616 or 17.	1649 (1649)	Wing T827; Thomason E568_1; ESTC R206240	79,821	83

according to the Institution of Jesus Christ and his Apostles this I shall do when I hear what you have to say against it and if you have any shame left in you which you professe to have I hope the Lord will then help you to be ashamed of and confounded for all the abominable slanders you have cast upon it and to be ashamed and confounded in your selves for that you have so causlesly and sinfully separated from it and have fallen from the Ordinances and Institutions of Christ to the practise of those new ones that never had ground or being other then in the vain and foolish speculations of some newly inspired men Paper As for your tenth branch which is nothing but sinfull raylings and revilings I shall not look upon that as worth times and words to answer You call us men of blinde zeal you say we are desperate and damnable in opinions and practises That most of our own cloth and calling are Malignants Prelaticall drunkards swearers lyars hypocrites that we are most against those that are most conscientious and greatest friends to prophanenesse and prophane ones c. a roll of Shemei's and Rabshekah's language the Lord help you to see your wickednesse in it and to repent that your iniquity may be pardoned and forgiven by the Lord for my part I forgive you freely Ans I shall onely ask you how you would take it to have your Argument turned upon you Thus Some new Lights Separatists and Independents are raylers revilers slanderers swearers drunkards lyars follow all abominations if one should say such are some of you therefore you are all such and to be condemned for such how would you like the conclusion Now remember Christs rule Whatsoever you would that men should do unto you even so do you unto them for this is the Law and the Prophets Onely I shall speak one word to that which you call to witnesse some of us to be lyars openly in Pulpits because that will turn the lye upon your selves That is Dry Baptisme that was once publickly mentioned in a Pulpit to be amongst you Now pray tell me if you may not give it that name what name do you give to this ordinance practised amongst you instead of baptizing an Infant to pray over it onely and to give it a name without the use of any water either by dipping or sprinkling tell me I say I shall be glad to be informed by you what do you call this ordinance where is your ground for it your primitive institution which you professe to stick to Is this orderly or disorderly walking I dare be so bold to say that this hath no ground in Scripture either from rule or practice precept or president from Christ or his Apostles nor in any of the Churches of Christ till these late times which every day like Africa bring forth some new Monster yet that this hath been lately practised amongst you will be made good to your faces by those who were eye and ear witnesses and therefore you need not to take so much snuff at this Paper In your 11 th place you say you cannot but dislike our disowning of the Saints meeting to communicate to each other of the things of God being as clear a command of Christs under the Gospel as any other but you say we discountenance the practice that we may keep men in ignorance c. Ans Here 's another grosse slander when will this mouth of lyes be stopped did you ever hear any of us dislike or disown the meeting of Saints to communicate to each other the things of God when or where did we ever discountenance such a practice who * See I am 4 11 12. are you that you dare judge other men thus as to say it is our endeavour and practice to keep men in ignorance and blindnesse can you answer this to God The Lord will one day judge you for this judging and you will have the same measure meted to you are you the men that call your meetings the meetings of Saints look upon every branch of your rayling Paper and deal truly with your own souls judge your selves that ye may not be condemned doth any part of it savour of a Saints spirit or of the things of God if this be Saintship the Devil is a Saint he is a lyar a rayler a false accuser the accuser of the brethren and whether there be not much of these things in your invective I leave it to God and to the world to judge ye make it appear to the world in it what spirit ye are of and what Saints ye are Again for the meeting of Saints for those ends you speak of I here tell you again that we do own it countenance it exhort to it commend it practise it but what we dislike and must disown and discourage our people from that I likewise tell you viz The following after those who having a form of godlinesse creep into houses and lead captive silly women laden with sins and led away with divers lusts 2 Tim. 3. 5 6. Again we call to them to mark those which cause divisions and offences contrary to the Doctrine which they have learned and to avoid them For they that are such serve not the Lord Jesus but their own bellies and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple Rom. 16. 17 18. Again we call to them to remember Christs words and to take his counsell If any man shall come unto you and say Lo here is Christ or there beleeve it not For there shall arise false Christs and false Prophets and shall shew great signes and wonders in so much that if it were possible they shall deceive the very elect Wherefore if they shall say unto you Behold he is in the desart go not forth Behold he is in the secret chambers beleeve it not Matth. 24. 23 24. 26. We call to our people to remember the Apostle Peters words who tels us that as there were false Prophets amongst the Jews there shall be false teachers amongst us which shall bring in damnable heresies that many shall follow their pernicious wayes by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evill spoken of And through covetousnesse shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you These he describes to be such as despise government Prosumptu us are they self-willed they are not afraid to speak evill of dignities 2 Pet. 2. 1 2 3 and 10. verses Again we desire them to remember the counsell and direction of St. Jude who exhorts the Saints to contend earnestly for the faith that was once de●ivered to the Saints For he saith there are certain men crept in unawares who were before of old ordained to this condemnation He likewise does describe them to be men that despise dominion and speak evill of dignities that they are wanding starres that they are mockers and these are they saith he that separate themselves sensuall having not the

God in his word that putting away lying every man should speak truth with his neighbour Ephes 4. 25. Now I thinke I have made it appeare and shall make it appeare farther that this Paper which you have set your hands to hath not one page of it but what is stuft with lyes and falsehood I leave to the Lord and to the world to judge betwixt us of them And therefore here again you have walked contrary to the revealed will of God Againe 'T is the revealed will of God that you should not backbite with your tongue nor doe evill to your neighbour nor take up a reproach against your neighbour Psal 15. 3. Againe that all bitternesse anger wrath clamour and evill speaking be put away with all malice Ephes 4. 31. Now looke upon your Paper There you call us Praters Time-servers Weathercocks blinde Pharisees Ministers of Antichrist Popish persecutors of the Saints haters of godlinesse lovers of prophanesse false Apostles selfe seekers penny Masters Drunkards Swearers Lyars men that endeavour to keep others in ignorance Seducers men of no religion proud covetous blood thirsty men for-swearers vain teachers men of perfidious opinions that we preach destructive and damnable doctrines destroyers of truth and true religion perfidious men that will destroy soules for gain Ale-house hunters Hereticks Jews Monsters men that condemne the practice and precepts of Christ for heresie enemies to true grace Ministers of Antichrist nay Divels This is the language you afford us in your Paper and you have set your hands to it that we are such as these Now whether this be a walking according to the Word or contrary to the revealed will of God in his word let your own consciences be Judges or else let the Lord the righteous Judge judge betwixt you and us I thinke I need goe no farther in this particular I hope this may be sufficient to convince you if the Lord will set it on upon your consciences and if so then be thankfull and blesse God for it if there be any truth or ingenuity in you Paper In the next particular you tell me you are grieved in spirit to see and heare my light and frothy carriage in the mentioning of Scripture as to say that 's a nimble Place You say a carnall and w●cked heart will abuse the best thing even grace mercy and love you say a Stage Player could doe no more nor the Divell himselfe to abuse and mock at Scripture and you close thus for shame come not in publick to act such Diabolicall parts Ans I answer This whole accusation is from the Divell the Father of lyes too you are grieved you say to see and heare pray how many of you ten dare say you saw and heard me in that carriage or that expression which you have here set your hands to if I am not much mistaken not neare the one halfe of you and yet you have set your hands to it I hope you will not turn Knights of the post these be some steps towards it Me thinks you should not call men Divels meerly upon heare say if you had any Charitie in you you could not he or they that informed the rest of you of this may be ashamed to looke an honest man in the face as we say to come to Publicke ordinances under a pretence of worshipping and to bely the truth of God in this manner the Lord will finde out such one day But as you say a carnall and wicked heart will abuse the best things I am able to bring you twenty for one of your informers of this who will passe I beleeve both in the presence of God and account of men for as honest conscientious Christians as your informer whosoever he be of you that will be witnesses that there was no such word spoken and I call God that heard and recorded every word to witnesse of it You tell me that a Stage Player a Devill could have done no more I answer For what I did and speak then and there in publicke the Lord knows that as David said to Michal it was before the Lord and for the Lord and if this be to be vile and a carnall wicked man a Stage Player a Divell I shall desire that I may be more vile yet Paper You bid me not come in publick for shame to act such Diabolicall parts Ans When the Lord shall again call me I shall not be ashamed to come again in publick and to act that part which the Lord hath put me upon as for your expression Diabolicall the Lord forgive you I do and I value it not The Lord Jesus hath taught me that the disciple is not above his Master nor the servant above his Lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub how much more shall they call them of his houshold Fear them not therefore for there is nothing covered that shall not be revealed and hid that shall not be known Matth. 10. 24 25 26. In the next place you come to make your requests to me Paper First that I would define what heresie is Ans I define heresie thus Heresie is a voluntary chusing of an opinion against some Article of Faith without ground of Scripture and an obstinate maintaining of it against all lawfull determinations of the true Church for some sinister and particular respects Or if you will have it more briefly thus Heresie is an error in the foundation of Christian Religion taught and defended with obstinacy Thus Paul saith Tit. 3. 11. that an Heretick is perverted that is put besides the foundation and condemned of himself in his sin that is he erres obstinately This heresie is differenced from a simple error by its obstinate maintaining from a schisme for that schisme is in discipline heresie in doctrine from Heathenish superstition Jewish perversnesse stup●d Mahometisme and the like because heresie is a revolt from the faith contrary to the Word of God which such never had no profest The father of it is the devill the mother pride the nurse singularitie the attendant hypocrisie the promoters of it inticing perswasions and peremptory will-worship Apostacie is an eminency in it it being a falling away from the truth profest self-condemning the top of it The outrages of it will be blasphemy against God virulent persecution of his Church and children The end finall impenitencie and despair the dismall fore-runners of eternall damnation Having thus shewed you what Heresie is you may easily resolve your selves the 2d Quaere what an Heretick is And can likewise best satisfie your selves in the 3d. viz whether there be any such among you The Lord help you to search narrowly and to deal truly with your selves that if there be any amongst you you may see them and beware of them For your 4th desire to satisfie you in that I give you all this under my hand And for the 5th I leave it to the world to judge whether I have answered it or no. And whereas in your close you again desire a meeting in a sober and in a Christian way I have told you my mind before and here tell you again that the most safe and sure way to cleare up the truth to satisfie doubts to discover errors to establish Saints that are wavering wil be to deal by setting down under yours and my hand what we would speak face to face at such a meeting one thing we shall more probably avoid this way which would frustrate our endeavours in the other that is clamour passion and tumults Again from written words we shall not so soone start and fly as from words spoken which in such a way with such people have seldome proved any better then wind For my part I professe it in the presence of God that it is and by Gods grace shall be my endeavour that love may be increased that jealousies heart burning and evill surmisings may be removed And that we may live in love and peace as becomes Christians I trust the Lord Jesus who is the great Prophet of his Church and the teacher of Israel will alwayes direct me not onely to speak of but to endeavour after the peace of the Church by convincing and stopping the mouthes of gainsayers who are crept in to disturbe our Peace by perverting the truths of God once delivered to the Saints And my prayers in speciall are that that God whom I serve in my spirit who knoweth the heart and prayers of his servant would onely so be with me in these endeavours of mine as it is the truth which I endeavour to maintain Amen You subscribe your selves My loving friends so farre as I love the Lord Jesus For your love and friendship to me I know not how I have of late forfeited it There are but few signes of it at present to be seen But for love to the Lord Jesus I here set my heart tongue pen to that of Paul as the conclusion of his Epistle 1 Cor. 16. 22. If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be Anathema Maranatha March 1648. Kemble Yours to serve you in the work of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus THO THACHE Postscript FRiends If hereupon you finde grace to see and heal your Errors we shall with all brotherly meeknesse love and humilitie be willing to receive you and shall blesse God on your behalf But if the sway of your mis informed and mis-resolved Conscience be heady and unresistable and your return hopelesse Even these poore endeavours of mine shall one day be a fearfull and materiall evidence against you before that awfull Judge who hath already said That judgements are prepared for scorners and stripes for the back of fools FINIS