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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09170	A declaration of the variance betweene the Pope, and the segniory of Venice with the proceedings and present state thereof. VVhereunto is annexed a defence of the Venetians, written by an Italian doctor of Diuinitie, against the censure of Paulus Quintus, proouing the nullitie thereof by Holy Scriptures, canons, and catholique Doctors.	Manfredi, Fulgenzio, attributed name.	1606 (1606)	STC 19482; ESTC S114206	32,389	92

trueth concerning Englands continued claime of her owne Imperiall rights and her manie prouisions decrees and consultations tending to the renunciation or abdication of any the Popes Interest or intermedlings in England In the 14. yeere of K. H. 1. the Popes Authoritie was so little esteemed in England as that it was come to that passe that no persons were permitted to appeale to Rome in cases of Controuersie Their Synods and Councels about Ecclesiasticall affaires were kept without seeking any his licence or consent And they would not obey such Legates as hee sent nor come to the Conuocations which they held In the 31. yeere of K. H 3. The Pope vnderstanding that diuers rich beneficed men in England died Intestate he ordeined a Decree That the goods of any Spirituall persons dying Intestate should remaine to the Pope which Decree purporting the Popes oppressiō in preiudice of this Realme and the suruiuing friends of the deceased the King in no sort would suffer to take place And the same King by his Letter Inhibitorie did flatly forbid a talage of the Cleargie which the Pope about that time had required In the 30. of E. 1. the Popes Peter-pence being not his due but rather the King of Englands Almes were denied to the Pope In the 17. yeere of K Edw. 3. the Commons pray the Kings assent to banish the Popes power quite out of England And in the same yeere vpon the Popes intruding of himselfe to make a peace betweene the King and France King Ed. sent him word That if hee would mediate betweene them as a friend hee would heare him but in no sort if he intermeddle as a Iudge In the 50. of E. 3. the Commons complaine that all the miseries of the Kingdom come by the Popes vsurpation beseeching the King this being the 50. and the Iubile yeere of his Reigne that hee would ioyne with them to cast him out for that he doth not pasture but pill Gods sheepe In the times of E. 3. R. 2. H 4. and H. 5. sundry Statutes were made against then that out of the Court of Rome obtaine or pursue any personall Citations against the King or any of his Subiects or that procure from thence any impetrations and prouisions of Benefices and offices of holy Church And for that as I before declared the Pope on the other side opposed to these Statutes his Interdicts and sentences of Excommunication against the obseruers of the same In the 13. yeere of R. 2. the said Excommunications also are so farre disauowed as that for the maintenance of the Liberties of the Kingdome and the dignity of the State it was ordained That if any did bring or send within this Realme any summons sentence or excommunication against any person for the cause of making motion assent or execution of the said Statute of Prouisors he shall be arrested imprisoned and forfeit all his Lands and Tenements goods and cattels for euer and moreouer incurre the paine of life and member And a Prelate making execution of such summons or sentence to forfeit into the Kings hands all his Temporalties Neuerthelesse for a long space after whether by reason of our continuall ciuill broyles in England which scant affourded any leisure of thinking much lesse of prosecuting vpon this cause or for that the superstitious ignorance of those times did entangle or rather captiuate the consciences of our people this point of the rights appertaining and incident vnto the Royall power Maiesty of this Imperiall Crowne and of the Popes vnlawfull oppressions and vsurpations within this Land lay asleepe was silenced and suffered open wrong vntill the latter dayes of K. H. 8. who instructing himselfe by the conferences and disputations of his learnedest Diuines and by the aduise and assent of the whole State assembled in Parliament fully and finally decided this question with the absolute exclusion and extermination for euer out of this Realme and the Dominions thereof of any the Popes Authoritie and Iurisdiction Thus hath God his prefixed periods for the producing at the last of that trueth which hee oft suffereth his Church to be long in trauaile of Then why should not we likewise reteine some comfortable conceits of Gods accomplishing and bringing to an happy effect of that worke in the Venetian State though sensim gradatim whereof hee hath of his prouidence and goodnesse and by occasions which for the iustice thereof may expect his blessings begun and layd so likely groundworkes ANd now my good friend for a closing conclusion to this my ouerlong letter as remembring wherefore I ted this tale Lend me a little more of your gentle patience whilest I draw out of the fresh remembrance of this Relation some satisfactory vse for the iustification of the Nationall Lawes of England and the Iustice of our Magistracie from the scandalous imputation of crueltie in our prosecutions against our professed Aduersaries transgressing our Politicall and poenall Ordinances Which I will comprise in a comparison betweene our English proceedings with these of the Venetians not intending at this time to sort out for them any other example or presedent then what I here haue already with my best iudgment wel obserued knowing that if I should post through France Spaine Italy and all Germany to collect proofes demonstrations to that purpose it would be as to me a labour supererogatory so to them whom nothing will satisfie like a charme to a deafe Adder It cannot be obscure to the whole world That our Royall kingdome hath for many yeeres together quite expelled the Pope with his Supremacie and superstition where the Venetians for any thing yet of publique note haue not fallen from him in any point of Religion no not disauowed his gouernance or Supremacie in causes Ecclesiasticall but onely excepted against his intrusion into the right of their owne Iurisdiction in causes on their part iustifiable by all humane and Diuine rules Yet haue they resolued vpon and pursued courses no whit inferiour in rigour and extremitie to the sharpest Lawes made with vs in so long a time and after so manifold and violent occasions Yea though the matter concerned vs in the deepest degree euen of vter esset vter imperaret both our regall and Imperiall rights lying at the stake in conflict with the Papall vsurpations and our Religion Peace Iustice and tranquillitie being continually infested by the positions oppositions practises and iniuries of the Romish faction You see the Commands and prohibitings of the Venetians to be all accompanied with the terrors of death which is vltimum in malis I doe not taxe or dislike this their seeming austeritie But I inferre that as necessitie coacteth them to be seuere so that our Lawes being enforced from vs by the like coaction haue also the like defence of naturall reason and primatiue Iustice in the righteous directions whereof they and wee doe agreeingly concurre What doe you thinke they would doe if they had once made a generall reuolt or

defection from the Pope in all the controuersed Articles of difference Can you imagine that beginning thus roundly they would not against their aduerse part and in the behalfe of the States quietnesse and preseruation proceed proportionably As the businesse now standeth I make no question but that in case that any one Venetian should be found to oppose against the current or streame wherein they be now caried he should so be suncke and confounded as neuer to see the Sunne againe In one point I must confesse they haue stepped further then we yet they may hold it to be Iustice too that the professors of pouertie should be forced to pouertie Wee haue neuer vsed against any Subiects such seazures and confiscations of their goods neither exiling of them out of their natiue Countreys without orderly and iuridicall Trials and Conuictions Neuerthelesse I condemne it not that either feare of danger maketh them sensitiue or that apparance of danger be met withall by wise preuention but if our Gouernours should driue the wheeles of Iustice so furiously as to possesse and take from euery dangerous or suspected Subiect his whole Estate thereby stripping and clipping him first and then to send away his body to seeke his heart beyond the Seas whither himselfe before had sent it How clamorously and with what horrible yellings would our Enemies cry shame and vengeance vpon vs all The trueth is That there is no State or Body politique whatsoeuer that will not in very sense of Nature seeke their best meanes against repugnant and sicknesse-breeding humours and either to reduce them to amendment if it may be or to rid them away by eiection when that cannot bee hoped And therefore howsoeuer we may imbrace rather the sweete and well contenting motions of mercy for which princes are blessed let vs giue leaue to the Venetians in imitatiō of their paterne the ancient Rome to restraine by prouisions that such detected and detested enemies of the State as the Iesuits are should liue amongst them and that ad confirmandam audaciam yea that they should there designare oculis ad interitum or beyond all this to bring in into their very bowels a Troiane horse with his belly full of treasons murders and all villanies to be vnloden and let loose among them for their finall ruine and confusion In England for that first the graue aduisednesse of the whole State in their great Assemblies of Parliament is but to giue support to Iustice And next aswell the Maiestie of our dread Souereigne who to his Diademe of Dignitie vnseparably conioyneth the Scepter of his Iustice as also the true Nobilitie of so wise and Honourable Counsellors who doeth make publique Iustice their primum in intentione all true hearted Subiects will rest indubitably satisfied of the integritie equitie and vprightnesse of that Gouernment And for other carping reproouers or barking slanderers let vs obfirmare mentes that whome we cannot content with honest reason them we may contemne with a disdaining confidence Here I will end this threed which I feare I haue drawen out in length ouer tediously I doe craue your well accepting curtesie to dispence therewith And I further promise you that if you please to vouchsafe the returne of some endeuours on your part concerning the new arising occurrences within your discouery you shall not faile to be plyed still in this sort with more of my loue and diligence THE ANSWERE OF AN ITALIAN D or of Diuinitie vnto a Letter written by a friend of his concerning the Briefs of Pope Paulus 5. his censure published against the Venetians And vpon the Nullitie thereof Drawen out of the Holy Scriptures the Fathers and the Catholique Doctours ¶ Translated out of the Italian tongue MOst reuerend Sir I haue read your Letter and doe not a little wonder that when I was wont alwayes to receiue from you the first aduertisements of all occurrents especially when there was cause to aske my opinion in them Now when so many matters of greatest importance are current in your Citie you haue bene the last man that certified mee thereof And yet you require me to set downe my opinion vpon these Briefs published against your Common wealth and vpon the protestation of the nullitie and inualiditie of the same made for the defence and maintenance of their reasons Albeit I know well the causes of this your slackenesse and may attribute it to the difficultie of the matter though I know not what scruple sticks most in your minde yet I will excuse you by reason of the extraordinary businesse you alledge and satisfie you in this as I haue beene wont to doe And I hope to doe it with that speed which you desire I being prepared thereunto by the exact consideration and studie which I haue bestowed in that matter alreadie I say then if I vnderstand it aright that your desire is to know if the censures publisht by Pope Paulus Quintus against the Segnior of Venice be voyde and of no force as is declared in their protestations that they being so you may celebrate the Sacraments and doe your Offices in your Churches as you did before the publication of the said censures without any scruple of Conscience To answere then plainly in order to these your requests I will include whatsoeuer may be said in that matter in Eight propositions The doctrine whereof as it shal be far from faction or flatterie so shall it be founded vpon the holy Scriptures the sayings and expositions of the Fathers and vpon the strongest force of trueth and reason that no man but vpon peeuishnesse shall dare to contradict it ¶ The first Proposition THe power that Secular Princes haue the Pope also as a temporall Prince ouer the States and Prouinces which he possesseth is granted vnto them immediatly from God without any exception For the vnderstanding and cleerenesse of this Proposition it must be considered that Lordship seruitude wrs brought in by the Law of Nations The command of the Prince obedience of the Subiect is by foure meanes that is by Election by Inheritance by Gift or by right of Warre So that all Princes which by any of these foure meanes euer haue beene or now are placed in the Throne of Principalitie are iust and lawfull Lords those I say which haue Authoritie from God to command to make Lawes to exact Tribute to Iudge and to punish Subiects without any exception The Doctrine is not mine but the Apostle Saint Pauls in the Epistle to the Romans Chap. 13. yea it is the holy Ghosts doctrine which speaks with his mouth and writeth with his penne whose wordes are these Omnis anima subdita sit potestatibus sublimioribus nam nulla potestas c. Let euery soule submit it selfe to the authoritie of the higher powers for there is no power but of God Saint Chrysostome expounding this place saith The Apostle doeth this to shewe that Christ brought not in his Lawes to ouerthrow Policie but to

breach or contention for now are the Venetians further catched at and looked into for former offences against the Church to make thereby a broader irruption and scandall vpon them First they are charged with the retention of Decime due vnto the Church and for their ill affection toward their Cleargie in keeping them downe generally as much as may be Secondly they had passed an Act in the Councell of the Pregati whereby is directly forbidden the leauing of any land to Holy vses ordering further any such Legacie to be immediatly sold Thirdly the State hauing in penurious times taken money of certaine Churches and Hospitals at vse of fiue or sixe pro Cento refuseth nowe to restore the principall tending that it hath bene repayed in the very Interest These causes added vnto the first and malignantly vrged to his Holinesse were so distastful and so distempered his affections as that shortly after hauing this grudge lying heauy and vndigested about Ianuary in the time of Marino Grimani then Prince he commanded the Venetian Embassadour then resident at Rome from his presence forbidding him further accesse while the State which hee serued stood in termes of contumacie against the Church And then with conuenient speede the sting of this complaint still egging on his sharpnesse he directed vnto the Venetians a Monitoriall Breue as they call it summoning them to obedience and in defect thereof menacing Excommunication of the whole State This admonishing Briefe was by the Popes Nuntio not onely defended and iustified in publique but with his Oratory further recommended as ful of wise and louing moderation Sith by giuing vnto them both fatherly aduise and respit of repentance it was rather an Argument of indulgence in his Master then of any furious precipitation Hereupon Leonardo Donato now Prince at 72. yeres of his age was presently elected to goe in quality of extraordinary Embassadour to the Pope of whom being ready to depart the death of the former Prince made a stay not as if so vrgent a businesse of the State had giuen way to his priuate aduancement but because this accident did bring with it a necessary excuse of deferring their answere to the summons till they had made choice of another Prince all consultations ceasing in the time of the vacancie Howbeit this so solemne Embassage thus accidentally respited It being thought fit in the meane while to apprehend and imploy all reasonable meanes in Rome by the friends of this Rebublique to remooue the Popes indignation with conuenient lenities It prooued all of so little effect that it rather turned into further exasperation partly through the Popes naturall tenacitie in whatsoeuer hee hath once resolued which is a note of him in his Court and partly by the cunning of the first instigators who stil kept a watch ouer him in that businesse but principally by the fore-expressed causes themselues which in their owne nature and pondered according to the grounds of that religion doeth not admit any dispensation in such an occasion where no qualifying can bee vsed without notorious affront and preiudice to the Popes Authoritie Whereupon after it was discerned that these cooling mediations by interceding friends so slenderly preuailed The State of Venice and their new Prince Leonardo Donato who as a priuate man for many yeeres hath had great credit in that State elected for Embassage toward Rome the Caualiere Dodo whom they furnished and prouided with good reasons for the iustification of the State Namely That concerning all those foure points wherein they be so blotted with disobedience toward the Church of Rome they haue sufficient and iustifiable allegations out of common reason Nationall right and priuiledges Authenticall And specially for the first which seemed to pricke the very master veine by restraining and correcting the vncleane conuersation of their licentious brood of single fornicatours and was otherwise most incensiue as most derogatory to the Popish chalenged exemption and preheminence For which were deliuered two reasons First that some of the Popes predecessours haue granted a power vnto them to proceed according to the forme of their Secular Courts against the Cleargie of their owne Dominion In delictis atrocibus of which nature these must needs be accounted Secondly that they did not by any their iudiciall attaches or proceedings inhibite or impeach the Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction But seeing that their immediat and competent Iudges through fauors negligence or conniuence omitted their dueties in such criminall prosecutions that they were bound both for the conseruation of their State and by diuine Law not to leaue malefactours vnpunished This Dodo whom as a very choice man of great worth and wisdome they had as their manner is chosen by their balls to the composing of this businesse was also further instructed in some circumstantiall cariages As by faire speech of their professed zeale vnto the Church and his Holinesse to asswage his angry and ouer-vehement intentions And to finde out and pursue any likely meanes of sauing the Popes reputation vvhom they might perceiue to be the more stiffe and vntractable because he had proceeded so farre already as that he could not hansomly make stop or goe backe And lastly to passe ouer that impediment and obiection deuised by the Factors and followers of the Pope obtruding to the Venetians as a president what they should doe the State of Genua Who hath lately in diuers things satisfied his Holinesse that therein a difference might bee sought out and insisted vpon betweene the case of this Common wealth and that of Genua shewing it selfe to the Sea of Rome so subiect and obsequious which example the Venetians much stomacked and are very sensitiue of the comparison with that president The Caualiere Dodo being in readinesse to depart for Rome it was thought fit to sound first whether he should be receiued with all circumstance according to the dignitie of the State being afraid of a publique scorne and meaning to proceede in this businesse from point to point very curiously as pretermitting no precise regard And taking assurance either directly from Rome of good acceptation in plaine deliuered termes or comfortably presupposing the same by a construction which might easily take holde of mindes well inclined because the Pope had since the Monitoriall sent to them a congratulatorie Briefe vvhich perhaps vvas his complementing with the new Prince which they reckoned as some signe of his relenting They dispatched Dodo vvith opinion that their iust Arguments would bee allowed of He had as Associate in these affaires the then Embassadour resident that with the concurrence of both their aduises and labours the desired effect might bee the easier attained vnto Notwithstanding all the diligence and forwardnesse of both these Ministers the Pope like to a shrew the more earnestly that hee was instanced the more crossely hee gaue his answeres And in the end became so stately as he would endure no more debatings or entreatings but with a Papall sternnesse hee proceeded to the publishing of