Selected quad for the lemma: friend_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
friend_n	answer_n	answer_v	letter_n	1,077	5	7.3824	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87226	Confidence encountred: or, A vindication of the lawfulness of preaching without ordination. In answer to a book published by N.E. a friend of Mr. Tho Willes, intituled, The confident questionist questioned. Together with an answer to a letter of Mr. Tho. Willes, published in the said book. By which the lawfulness of preaching without ordination is cleared, and the ordination of the national ministers proved to be a nullity. By Jer. Ives.	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1658 (1658)	Wing I1094; Thomason E936_1; ESTC R207711	43,652	64

Confidence Encountred OR A VINDICATION OF THE Lawfulness of PREACHING without Ordination In Answer to a Book published by N. E. a friend of Mr. Tho Willes INTITULED The confident Questionist Questioned Together with An Answer to a Letter of Mr. Tho. Willes published in the said Book BY WHICH The Lawfulness of Preaching without Ordination is cleared and the Ordination of the National Ministers proved to be a Nullity By JER IVES How forcible are right words but what do your arguings re●rove Job 6.25 As every one hath received the gift even so m●nister the same one to another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God If ANY MAN speak let him speak as the oracl●s of God 1 Pet. 4. ●0 ●● Printed at London and are to be sold by Dan. White at the seven Stars in Paul's Church-yard or may be had at the Authors house in Red-Cross-street 1658. To the READER Reader I Have for thy further information in the things of Christ published an Answer to some counter Queries which were made by an unknown Author in the behalf of Mr. Tho. Willes his Doctrine concerning the sinfulness of Preaching without Ordination in which counter-Queries thou maist be acquainted with the Author's Spirit though by his concealing his Name thou canst not be acquainted with his Person and by a strict Observation of what he hath writ thou maist see that he hath made good his own words viz. That he had writ enough to puzzle * See his book page 4. rather then convince his Adversary and that appears by his many contradictions one while he saith The Clergy is routed and by and by tells Mr. Willes The Enemy is routed * See his Epist to the Reader and compare it with his Epistle Dedicatory one while he demands whether Apollos was not ordained Minister when he preached publickly Act. 18. and by and by he demands if Apollos knew of any such thing as Ordination from the Apostles when he preached Act. 18. one while he demands if there was a constituted original Church with Officers in it at this time when Apollos preached See his book page 22 23. Act. 18. and by and by he saith That it is certain Apollos was at this time an Officer and bids me prove that he was ever made an Officer after his preaching Act. 18. Again he saith If the Church of Rome was a true Church then her Ministers were true Ministers when our Reformers were ordained by her And demands why I did not disprove her to be a Church pag. 41. and yet a little before he saith That she was as bad when the Ministers did receive Ordination from her as she was when they left her and yet he saith They left her not as she was the Spouse of Christ but as she was a Harlot page 39. so that he supposeth Rome to be a Harlot and Christ's Spouse at one and the same time Again he saith page 37. That the corruptions of the corrupt Dispensers of Ordinances cannot make them null and yet he saith pag. 48. If it be true as Mr. Brookes saith That the Ministers of England are Antichristian then all that they have baptized must be baptized again Is not this plain contradiction As he abounds with Contradictions so he doth with Impertinencies medling with the Trade that I follow and my being a Souldier and such-like things that concern not the Question before him Another while he blames me for that he doth himself viz. of meddling with this Controversie and taking it out of Mr. Brookes his hand when he undertook to answer a particular Paper which was proper for none else to answer but Mr. Willes Another while he blames me for that I did charge a thing upon Mr. Willes that I had but one witness for and yet himself believes the Accused's bare Negation without any witness for at that time when Mr. VVilles desired a Gentleman to apprehend me for a Jesuite there was none present to witness besides the Gentleman aforesaid though at our first meeting there was divers Again one while he saith Rome had power to ordain Ministers as Christ's Church and by and by compares them to Thieves and to Korah at the time they ordained the first Reformers Again his Book is full of unman-like arguings as appears by his frequent begging the chief things in question otherwhile when I demand a proof of those things that are so frequently affirmed by Mr. VVilles he demands how I prove they are not and so turns the proof of the affirmation from himself and puts his Respondent to prove Negations Surely this is not to give a Reason of our Hope to every one that asketh with Meekness and Fear Again he tells his Reader That the Anabaptists are bloody pag. 31. and pag. 50. he saith he ghesses that they are the men whose hands were most embrued in the blood of the late VVars When indeed the Anabaptists were in no capacity at the beginning of these Wars to blow those sparks of contention into a burning Flame if they had had a minde to so bad a work Thus I have given thee a taste of that Spirit that inspired him in the writing of his Book to which I have given an Answer and though I have not answered to every word yet I have answered every thing that hath any shew or colour of Reason in it which I desire thee faithfully and impartially to consider trying all things and holding fast that which is the best and that thou maist so do is the prayer and desire of Thy Friend Jer. Ives Confidence encountred c. Mr. N. E. ACcording to your desire I have answered your Counter Queries you sent to me with a Letter and though you have medled with a matter that concerns you not yet know that it concerns me to answer you lest you should be confirmed in your folly and though you contemn my Queries as slight and call me an unworthy Enemy yet I have learned to say Contemptum stulti contemnere maxima laus est Contemni à stulto dedecus esse nego To scorn a Fool 's contempt is praise and I His scorn to be disgrace do quite deny And though you thought you had so routed me that I would never appear again yet know that this was nothing but the violent beatings of the Waves and Billows of your ambition which I thought necessary to put a check to by this ensuing Answer lest you should be exalted above measure for the prevention whereof I have published this Reply And therein I Shall first begin with your Title wherein you call me a Confident Questionist but if you had read my Epistle you would have found that I did question for Conscience sake some things that Mr. Willes had delivered and withal did propound to the Reader that if the Answers thereunto did satisfie I should bless the Father of Lights that had not suffered me to labour in vain This was the greatest altitude of my Confidence and

the heighth of my Ambition in that undertaking You proceed to an Epistle where you tell your Reader That if he be a Friend to Truth he probably hath ere this been grieved to see the host of Israel routed c. and the Ministery SO MUCH shattered c. why then do you glory and cry victoria if the Clergy which you call the Host of Israel be routed should not you mourn as well as you would have your Reader but in stead thereof you blame your Enemy for glorying as though he had no occasion and wear the Lawrel your self wreathing it upon your own brows as though you had so routed your Enemy that he would never rally what need is there for the Reader to grieve if Mr. Willes hath routed and shattered the choicest Ranks of his Enemies unless you flatter Mr. Willes and deal truely with your Reader for is not this strange that you tell your Reader See his Epistle to Mr. Willes the Lords Host is routed and yet flatter with Mr. Willes and tell him the Enemy is routed And by this you may see that you are so unfit to be an Armour-Bearer in this Warfare that you justly deserve to be chashiered the Camp for your false Intelligence For you tell Mr. Willes the Enemy is shattered and yet tell your Reader the Ministery are shattered But is the Clergy shattered no marvel then that the people are shattered for like Priest like People a shattered Clergy must not look for any thing but a discomposed people And truely that is the greatest Truth in your Packet for how few of them agree in any thing save in the point of Tythes common experience can testifie if you had said nothing You go on still in your Epistle and tell your Reader That if he be shaken you have sent him some Counter-Queries and bid him judge and try and then you say you hope he will blush at his unconstancy c. So he may well if what you have writ should shake his understanding then he must needs be one that is carried about with every Airy notion You further tell your Reader That if he be an enemy to truth he hath triumphed before the victory c. How can that be when you exhort to grieve because them that you call the Enemy have routed the Host what is that less then Victory if you speak Truth You go on and tell your Reader That if Mr. Brookes or his Church invited me to be the Patron of their cause you might guess them to be miserably baffled c. First neither Mr. Brookes nor his Church ever invited me to do them this service but if they had if their inviting me to be a Patron to the cause had argued them to be miserably baffled how miserably baffled did you fear your self should be in what you had writ when you begged Mr. Willes to be your Patron You tell your Reader That he cannot expect Mr. Willes should hinder his more serious discussion of this weighty point to take notice of my slight Queries This I confess is an easie way to confute the strongest Arguments for a man that is contrary minded to call them slight and say he is not at leasure to answer them If I had answered you thus surely men would have judged you had more strength on your side then you have You go on and bid your Reader see if here be not enough to puzzle me c. You are now guilty of that which you blamed your Adversary for but now viz. of triumphing before the Victory but it seems then the end of your writing was to puzzle and not to convince your Adversary I proceed now to take notice of your Epistle to Mr. Willes in which you tell him my grounds are slight c. This triumphing of yours is but like that which Job speaks of that is but for a moment Job 20.5 You demand of Mr. Willes in what sence he asserted the baptizing the Children of wicked Parents c. and you presume he means onely such as are Church-Members and are not cast out c. Truely either your Church are all good or else you are partakers of their sins in not casting them out for I have not heard of one vile person that the Presbyters have excluded There is another Question which you propound to Mr. Willes viz What were his own words concerning the Fifth-Monarchy-men About Mr. Willes asserting those words touching the Fifth-Monarchy-men I have not wronged him as hereafter shall appear You further ask Mr. Willes Whether he did positively assert me to be a Jesuite c. Surely you did not think Mr. Willes had so much to do as you made your Reader believe even now that you ask him so needless a Question for did I say or intimate that Mr. Willes did positively assert me to be a Jesuite why did you not ask him whether I had two hands or three it had been as much to your purpose But to proceed You tell him That if any thing appear in print in answer to the whole it will beg his patronage of its cause c. If he did not father it it would be an Orphan since the true Father will not be known But doth not your Logick teach me to believe you feared to be miserably baffled since you thus beg for his Patronage Surely you thought your Wine to be mix'd with Water that you beg Mr. Willes his Bush to hang at your Door that so it might sell the better and not be questioned The next thing that followeth in your Book is Mr. Willes his Letter wherein he tells you That the people were so rude that it might have proved to my peril if he had not pacified them c. This shews what Spirit your Churches are filled withal that it is perillous for a man to ask a Question among them though never so soberly for no man in his wits will believe that they were of Mr. Brookes his Church that were so much my Enemies seeing you say I came to be a Patron to their cause Mr. Willes tells you further That he laid down two Principles as the grounds of my satisfaction 1. That Ministers in an ordinary way were to be ordained by Ministers 2. That in case of necessity where there was no Ministers to ordain fit Persons might become Ministers without Ordination c. But he doth not tell you that I asked him by which of these ways he came into the Ministery and he would not tell me though I prest him once and again for though I grant these two ways of Admission yet I denied that ever he came in by either Hereupon he told me If there was but two ways of coming into a House and if he were in I must conclude that he came in at one of them But is not this a shameful begging the Question for though I granted these two were to be the ways of entrance yet I denied him to be come in by either Now