sinners c. but repent least that chaunce to you that came vpon them And againe looke I pray you howe you stumble in your owne tale You would prooue that none hath receiued their ministerie from the mouth of God you'speake of Paule did not Christ speake to him after his ascention from heauen and I pray you tell mee what ministration that euer was true came froÌ„ other then Gods owne mouth you are taught to flee such boasters like enough for so Satan hath alwayes taught his children And as concerning the badge whereby you woulde knowe them is as you set downe by publique declaration which is vtterly false For Moyses onely shewed his ministration to the Israelites Abraham to his children Noc to his familie Lott to his housholde and all the Prophets to Gods peculier children the Apostles in priuate houses c. And nowe to be short the disciples of Christe â–ª or his worde which are taught by the doctrine of Christ our sauiour out of the mouth of H. N. do confesse freely before all men the ground of their faith and religion and though you will not credit it yet it doth not followe that it is not so except this reason as God forbid should alwayes holde like as it hath holden of late Because men say I am a theefe therefore no proofe of lawe the testimonie of my neyghbours with whome I liue nor mine owne words against so simple an alligation must be permitted but all is vntrue nowe except it be to proue your false words slaunderous brutes trewe Here we finde will and vniustice on your parte to haue more rule then equitie or good reason And nowe therefore master Rogers will I euen out of loue to an admonition of you to your preseruation display vnto you a little of the difference betwixt the doctrine of H. N. yours He exhorteth according to the doctrine of Iesus Christ mentioned in the Scriptures to true repentâ—unce godly loue an vpright faith and dutifull obedience c. euen like as many of you at this day in words do but yet he with more power for he manifesteth according to the trueth that none among all the children of men shal be found meete in the sight of the Lord to beare the names of Christians boast they neuer so much of their Christianitie freedome or iustification by Christe in their vnregenerated life as they wil which hath not submitted them selues in true repentance vnder the obedience of Gods holie lawe which is administred vnto them in the seruice of Loue for to become first disciples of the same worde to a reformation of their owne wayes and not to go presently foorth with the knowledge and teach others as you do before they be come taught and reformed thereby neyther yet to iudge others therwith as you now do before they be come first iudged thereby which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the father And then being so taught vnto Iesus Christ in the holie lawe to take vp in the beleefe their crosse daily on them with Christ against the sinne which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the Sonne vntill that Christe which is the way the trueth and the life it selfe haue gotten a liuing shape or fourme in them by faith and that they through the Spirite of loue or Christ be raised vp againe in a newe life which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the holy Ghost wherevnto all the Familie of Loue or of God at this day are louingly called and doe meane by Gods assistance most earnestly to endeuour themselues but yet with much more quietnesse mought they haue rest by such enimies to all godlynesse as you are Although you be vnaquainted with this doctrine â–ª or rather true baptisme here following yet would wee not therefore haue you belye vs according to your accustomed manner and saye that we deny the holy sacrament therof And although this infallible Christian doctrine of Loue Faith Obedience and Life which is taught by H. N. in the seruice of Loue accordeth with all Scriptures remaineth yet vnknowen much lesse practised amongst you free ones or Lybertines and this true repentance which is taught vnder the obedience of the holy lawe of God the Father this true crosse of Iesus Christ which is taught vnder the obedience of the beleefe of God the Sonne and this true resurrection or newenesse of life which is taught vnder the obedience of the loue of God the holie Ghoste is nowe blasphemed despised and resisted as an vnneedefull thing of you yet is the same neuerthelesse by the Familie of Loue or of God found to be the olde and true way corespondent with all the doctrine of the Apostles of Iesus Christ and therefore so needefull that without it looke ouer the Scriptures againe so mâ—ny as be wise among you there shall no man finde mercie with God or els through Iesus Christ become saued Then Alas master Rogers â–ª alas what haue you done I hope nothing yet but out of ignorance I would then you woulde looke better into the matter for if H. N. be a minister of the Lord then you haue much ouershot your selfe I leaue Stephan Bateman to the righteous iudgement of the Lord as one in whome there is small hope of any goodnesse Wherefore the Lorde God for his Christes sake graunt you eyes of vnderstanding and a repentant heart to aske forgiuenesse for so maliciously blaspheming Gods loue and trueth extended towardes vs out of mercie vndeserued and to aske mercie for deprauing such a gratious worke of God published forth nowe in the last time to all mens preseruation that desire to walke â–ª therein whereof we shal be right glad and then shal you be deliuered from that lying spirite which nowe seeketh like as in times past with moste horrible slaunders lyes to deface all good all such as indeuour themselues therevnto So shal it come to passe to Gods glorie your saluation our comfort Amen Your vnknowen friend The aunswere of I. R. to â–ª the letter of the Familie I Receiued a letter from you as from an vnknoweÌ„ friend conteining matter inuectiue against my booke as also verie many contumelious slaunderous speaches touching my honestie both which to aunswere you shall finde me readie and willing although not with like speach of disdaine sauouring of the spirite of enuie and not of loue To all which speach touching my honestie this shall serue for answere the Lord deale so and so betwéene vs as you vniustly charge me with waightes measures wares c but the contents of my booke disquieteth your moode the which you shal finde more large in aunswering 1 The first matter you tell me that no honest man woulde assay to defende so vnhonest attempts to defend my honestie I will not in this place my protestation shall serue but if the cause be dishonest then I am worthy great reprehension but you mistake me vtterly that I reprehend
and passion is impaired and lessened Looke therfore into Christes office with a right spirite and you shall sée plainely in him the Lawe to be fulfilled for vs so y what he hath fulfilled y haue we full filled for it is made ours by grace otherwise we caÌ„not kéep the law but by Christ neither are you able to shewe vs any example that any Patriarches Prophetes or Apostles that euer were did euer kéepe the lawe of God in euery point as good requireth Nowe touching the authoritie of S. Ierome I aunswere by Ierome who writing against Pellagius doth shew two maner of perfections the one to be agreable to the vertues of God whiche is voyde of all sinne and here one earth declared in the person of Christ the other which agreth with our frailtie is not pure froÌ„ sin which argueth an impossibilitie to fulfill the lawe otherwise then in the person of christ And in déed almightie God did not coÌ„mand impossible things for somuch as Christ being perfect maÌ„ fulfilled y law for vs which vtterly declareth our weakenes inhabilitie to perfourme the same For if by any other means y wrath of God could haue bene pacified or his lawe satisfied Christ his onely sonne our blessed sauiour and redemer had not neded to haue ben incarnat to become man to work this great effect for vs And surely they the acknowledge our habilitie in perfourming the law do mightilie shake the office death of Christ our Lord leaue in our conscience such a clog as is hardly remoued Dauid demandeth Who can say my hart is cleane again God looked down froÌ„ heauen amoÌ„g the sons of men and ther was not one righteous no not one Many of the fathers did sée our impossibilitie in perfourming the lawe therfore Austen saith al the commauÌ„dements of God are accoÌ„pted to be don when y is pardoned which is vndone To coÌ„clude almighti god neuer giueth such grace to any his childreÌ„ absolutely to fulfill his law but only to Christ by him is that performed It is no derogation to our God in giuing a lawe which we cannot performe but coÌ„mendation in sauing deliuering vs from y law notwithstaÌ„ding our weakenes in performing y same And if we did right ly examine our selues our own conscience doth wel verifie the same but sathaÌ„ is an enemy heretoo the he might by pride puffe vp our minds with a vain imagination the we are able to do performe y which God in his law requireth so to perswade our minds thereby the Christs death doth smally auaile or help vs here in But of this argument this is sufficient y Godly learned are able to say much more if you require herein to be satisfied The Lord direct our minds into the way of truth let thy people O-Lord not be ledde into error by sathans practise Then Lord giue vs al humble minds Amen This aunswere is to E. R. Your friend I. R. An other letter of the familie conteyning a Reply to the aunswer of I. R. to their first letter WE haue receiued a Letter from you maister Rogers dated the 29 of Ianuarie as an aunswer to a former letter which came to your handes wherein you say was manie inuectiues against your booke as also verie manie contumelious and slaunderous speches touching your honestie c. wherevnto wee aunswere breefely he is honest that honestly doth But wee vse no disdainfull speeches sauouring of enuie and not of loue like as you vnrightly report of vs we charge you not but we saye your allegation concerning Christopher Vittell is vntrue as my lord of Caunterburie that now is can witnesse and therefore say wee looke well to your weightes measures and wares from henceforth The contents of your booke disquieteth not our moode your cause is surely dishonest then what honestie wee aske can proceede thereout but yet wee hope you haue done it all out of ignorance and therefore worthie of lesse reprehention And in that you haue reprehended the loue of God and Christ we haue not therein mystaken you at all for were the loue of God and Christ manifested in you like as you saye it is vnto you then could you not verely haue so impudently in the face of all the worlde â–ª belyed and slaundered your poore neighbours as you haue done who neuer did you harme You say if we were of God and Christes houshold you and we were fellowes and you would embrace vs but you call vs strangers of the housholde and as straungers lurke in corners c. we aunswere of such an houshold as you haue challenged to your selues wee are straungers and the feare of your rigorous dealings hath in deede made some of vs to flye lurke in corners we say still your foundation is against one H. N. whome you neuer knewe nor rightly vnderstood of and you answer that his doctrine is not vnknowen vnto you whose bookes ye haue to shewe Wee wish it were euen so And whereas the name of Christ is shadowed by two carecters A. O. euen so we haue heard that there is some meaning more then you or wee can well tell in these two carecters H. N. Notwithstanding if any man become so captious as to gather and report therevpon that we should therefore denye any outward man or creature he doth not onely mistake vs but also in reporting the same againe to others slaunder vs therein verie much You say you haue truely set downe the same mans life not hear-sayes but the trueth c. whome yet you confesse you neuer knewe then it can be nothing but hearesayes that you write And you saye that the reporters are honest and of Christes church To which we say againe that those of Christes church occupie not their mouthes with vntruethes albeit then they stand neuer so well liked of you or any other for wee knowe that they say not truely And wheras wee haue set downe the true principles of our faith and religion in a breefe rehersall which ye confesse to be sound and good yet because that agreeth not to your minde in that we confesse not somwhat therein whereby ye might haue your slaunders verified against vs which ye looke for by our own confession it is you say plaâ—sible and mockerie See into your disposition if we would accuse our selues albeit falsly with any matter that you accept gladly but if we in trueth simplenesse aunswere for our selues that ye reieâ—t vtterly Oh what nature that good is would so seeke to hurt his brethren And further ye saye that the auctor of those bookes termeth you a diuellish Sinagogâ—e or scoole and that you are not the churche but an harlot and if you and wee say you professe one baptisme one Christ one faith c. why are we scuered in Comunion Of this matter we will speake here following And where you saye that certeine of our familie haue been conuinced subscribed and recanted and haue promised neuermore to professe H.
ouershot my selfe and if you can prooue it to me I shall gladly receiue it and will be redie to recant and cal backe all my wordes and aske mercie in like fourme as you haue prescribed but hitherto as I am persuaded and as my conscience beareth me witnesse I haue not in any point slandered you nor of malice spokeÌ„ any thing against you for if I did know any nerer way to saluatioÌ„ then y which our sauiour Christ hath taught in his Gospell I woulde with all gréedenesse imbrace it And if I can vnderstand that euer this your doctrin was taught publikly since christ our Lord his assention by any godly writer in Christs Church I will ceasse and subscribe vnto you otherwise blame me not though I continue in that minde which the Lorde in mercie by his Christ hath made manifest to me to my comforte The God of mercie and consolation giue you a right spirite to depend vpon the puritie of his worde written by the holy Ghoste and not to depend vpon the vncertainetie of man giuing testimonie to him selfe so shall both you and I bee brought to sée rightly into our weakenesse shall heare y ioyful voyce y Paule heard My grace is sufficient for thee For y Lords power loue is manifested made kno wen vnto the worlde through our weakenesse and all our righteousnesse is Sicut pannus menstrualis God in mercie giue vs all his grace that in séeking the true way that ledeth to life euerlasting we be not led into y by paths of errour but leade vs and guide vs O Lorde so shall we knowe thy ways aright imbrace our sauing health in Christ declared to all nations If it please you to reply I shall receiue it thankfully London the 12. of Februarie Your friend I. R. A Letter of the Familie to I. R. written by E. R. M. Rogers these are to signifie vntd you that I haue perused a booke wherof you are the authour In your preface you say you haue vsed this order to set downe the authors owne speach not adding or diminishing any thing with the name of the booke Chapter or folio I do wish that your word and deede had agreed therein I call to minde that I haue read many authours bookes within this 35. or 36. yeares and among them all I haue not found any writer that hath taken such an order as you haue done for who so euer will write to confute an Authour he should set downe the Authours owne wordes as they stande written in his bookes and so to confute them by the Scriptures orderly and not to take out here some and there some and of diuers sentences and part of diuers sentences to make one sentence You haue added and diminished in diuers places and to inlarge your booke withall you haue set downe the most part of the sentences in two places as y readers may perceiue if they do confer your booke with the Authours bookes wâ—y them with indifferencie I am fully persuaded that the sober discreet wise and godly learned do ne wil not allowe of it that any Authour should be so abused as you haue abused this Authour in wresting belying and peruerting his writings Salonton saith A false record wil make a lye A false witnesse shall not remaine vnpunished and hee that speaketh lyes shall not escape I pray God open the eyes of your heart that you may see your ignorance and repent You do ground one point of your matter vpon Adrian Gisling a man of credite as you say y he did read in a Duche booke intituled the Glasse of righteousnesse wherein the Authour doth certifie his Familie of Loue that they must passe foure most terrible castels full of combersome enimies before they come to the house of Loue the first is Iohn Caluine the second the Papistes the third Martine Luther the fourth the Anabaptistes howe good of credite so euer Adrian Gisling is of he hath not at any time read any such matter in any of that Authours bookes he might perhaps read of such matter in some other booke hauing that title I my self haue read ouer diuers of the bookes and also the booke called the Glasse of righteousnesse of that Authours writing that you take your occasion against and there is no such Castles written in any of his bookes therfore Adrian Gisling is therein vtterly deceiued and I do beleeue no lesse but those other thinges that you haue written vpon reporte against â— Author to make him odious vnto the people is as contrarie I suppose you should haue done well if you had not come in with a flourish to attempt battell and beginne a skirmish against those that haue no pleasure or delight in warre or battell but much rather doe desire peace vnitie It is not reckoned for a manly part that an armed souldier should take vp weapon and fight with a naked childe It is written Let not him that putteth on his harnesse boast him selfe as he that putteth it off If the little vnarmed childe Dauid doe come to battell with his sling and stones one of the stones may happen to hit Golias in the forhed be he neuer so well appointed for battell and trusteth in his owne strength But what you haue done you can not vndo it is too farre past your hands And where you call in doubt that the familie will carpe as you terme it at your booke and do offer if they do answere it a speedie replie will be performed I for my parte I giue GOD thankes am not ignoraunt of the Lande of strife and contention that ye walke in and as it appeareth ye haue a pleasure therein I haue wandered vppe and downe there ouerlong and consumed much time there about to my greate greefe and sorrowe for those that doe loue strife and contention would haue other like to them selues S. Paule saith The seruants of the Lord must not striue And Saint Iames saith If ye haue bitter enuying and strife in you hearts reioyce not neither be lyars against the trueth and then following where enuie and strife is there is vnstablenes all maner of euill workes In the Homilie for whitsunday the second part ye may read this sentence But to conclude and make an end ye shall briefly take this short lesson where so euer ye finde the spirit of arrogancie and pride the spirit of enuie hatred contention crueltie murther extortion witchcraft Necromancie c. assure your selues that there is the spirite of the diuell and not of GOD albeit they pretend outwardly to the worlde neuer so much holinesse I haue no desire pleasure nor delight to carpe at your booke nor to striue or contend with you or any one neyther is there any other who doe desire peace and vnitie that will haue any delight or pleasure in strife and contention but leaue euery one to the Lorde Salomon saith The sinne of the wicked is his owne snare Saint
Therefore to conclude for our true principles we referre you to the briefe rehersall and for any other difference to these premisses and all other doubtes we haue sufficiently resolued you as wee thinke in plaine speeche out of hartie loue Let this therefore suffise for an aunswere at this time The Lorde for his mercie graunt you and vs all inclyned heartes to doe his will but first to leaue our owne will and to indeuour vs with all the elect of God and Christe to the renouation in the spirite vz. that wee all in one heart of godly loue mought as liuing stones bee fast couched or coupled together in Iesus Christe to an holy house temple or familie of Loue or of God in as much as God is Loue and not any longer to striue but much rather as seruanntes of the Lorde in all meekemindednesse to humble our soules vnder this his great grace loue and mercie wherevnto wee all are so louingly called and warned by him and his holie Gospell in the ministration of the loue in the last time Amen This aunswere is to your first Letter Your louers and friends F. L. The answere of I. R. to the reply of the Family of Loue. BY perusing of your reply to my first answere I perceiue that our conference is to small purpose for that you cōtinue stil of the same mind you were and your crabbed slaunderous words towards me is nothing impaired with your smooth answer saying we charge you not with weightes wares c. If you of purpose had not charged me here with what néeded any mention of such slaunders but as in other thinges so in this you bewray your stomacks and of what spirite you are You take witnes My Lord of Canterburie whose minde concerning your great Rabby Vittell is knowen to many You affirme the cause I take in hande is surely dishonest The cause is Christes whose office and death is impaired and made of no effect by your doctrine of perfection and shadowed by H. N. so darkely that the children of GOD abiding in the vnitie of his Church do greatly lament your follie You say I haue belyed and slaundered my poore neighbours impudently and yet you shewe no matter wherein only you finde fault with vnorderly setting downe your Authours spéech No man can kéepe order with him that is without order Of adding diminishing you often charge me and shewe not in what place nor in what sentence I will not vse your vnhonest tearmes of impudencie but surely you deale in this case as the Papistes are woont to charge the doctrine of Christs Gospell which we professe that it bréedeth sedition that it pulleth Princes out of their seats openeth a gap to liber tie c. which howe truely these are imputed the eies of al do at the last behold The feare of our rigorous dealing forceth you to lurke in corners you say what rigour I pray you was euer shewed either to you or your companions the Papistes for their conscience Imprisonment you would say vpon submission which is no rigor Of such an houshold as we haue challenged to our selues you say you are strangers we confesse our selues to be of no other houshold then of Christes staying vpon the puritie of his word if you will be straungers from the same willingly it is great pitie You had rather follow H. N. then Christ and yet confesse that H. N. signifieth not any mans name but hath some other meaning which you ne wee can tell What a lamentable case is this that men hauing any sence or vnderstanding would credite such vncerteine wayes to follow an Authour doctrine so egerly and yet confesse you are ignoraunt who he is or what he is As for your confession published as I saide it is a mockerie for it is sounde and agréeing to vs Why halt you so cunningly Why will you dance in a nett and not be séene Do you in your confession impugne the doctrine of predestination or the possibility of the law c. or doe you once mencion the same therein and yet in your letters you shewe your dislyking of such doctrine terming it licentious Is not this déep dissembling and yet call it plaine dealing I would not haue you accuse your selues as you vniustly charge me but vse a simple and playn trueth and shew your minds truely and not hide it craftely and set downe pointes of doctrine agréeable with vs and say it is your confession of faith where you conceale the chéefe matters in variance betwéen vs Oh when will you deale plainly a wicked doctrine requireth shiftes and delayes but trueth openeth her selfe plainly to al in y day light And for your weakelings which haue recanted you say they were suche as coulde scarsely read english You forget your selfe very much was Sharpe and his companie which recanted at the crosse were they suche as you would beare vs in hand simple Sharpe was a teacher and others that I could name were not of the least account among you yet to help their weakenesse you call them simple men c. I know that some of thē haue followed the doctrine of H. N. these 18. yeares I take you not to be so olde a scholler in the Family You say you wil not conuince vs by the testimonies of the scriptures for it lyeth not in your power neither were you so dealt withall Surely this is very straunge It is the Lord that hath conuinced you and brought you vnder his Crosse but I pray you came this to passe by reuelation or by mans ministery If man was the minister you would haue vs beléeue that H. N. was he but it appeareth not that you are vnder Christes Crosse for in patience he suffered all wrongs and there was no deceipt nor guile found in his mouth He commanded his doctrine to be published to all the worlde not in corners but on the house toppe not faintly and fearefully but boldely and couragiously he suffered contumelious spéech and slaunderous but you do vse spéech of slaunder and disdaine as appeareth so that you haue not learned Christes crosse but H. N. his crosse As for Maister Knewstubs doings as yet not exstant you rashly and foolishly cauill at him before you heare him and condemne his doinges before you sée them and say that he will display himselfe euen as I haue done This is impudencie in the highest degrée to iudge and condemne a man before he be heard what he can say this doeth bewray of what mind and spirite you are What conference can do you good It séemeth your heart is hardned with the riddles of H. N. y so make your selues knowen to all Gods children it had bene more agréeable to the spirite of God to haue suspended iudgement vntill the worke had bene séene My adherentes in diriston you often name I tel you truly that the church of Christ Iesus are those adherents for I mainteine no other doctrine then y which in Christs Churche by publique