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A00276 A dialogue betweene a vertuous gentleman and a popish priest [ ... ]pleasaunt and profitable, both for ministers and gentlemen, men and vvomen, old and yong, made by I.B. I. B., fl. 1581. 1581 (1581) STC 1039; ESTC S120239 70,214 160

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that I shoulde refuse to shewe it you Par. Then I praie you sir what is it Gen. My name is Chistopher Conscience Par. What are you a Gentleman and are you called Conscience mee thinkes it is an vnfit name for you as might be deuised Gen. Whie should you think so M. Parson is it not as meet for a Gentleman as anie other man Par. No for I woulde alwaies haue a man called according to the qualities that are in him Gen. And maie not conscience bee it a Gentleman think you Par. Truely Gentleman it is possible inough but it is so vnlikelie that for mine own part amongst a great number I could neuer finde manie that had anie conscience in them at all Gen. Oh M. Parson I think you speak either of malice or of affection Par. Noe I promise you I speak as I thinke and if it be true that you are a gentleman that doth deserue the name of Conscience I maruel what you doe here in this place Gen. Why M. Parson where shoulde I be Par. Mee thinkes it is a greate maruail that you are not presented to the Queenes Maiestie for the greatest wonder that euer she saw Gen. Why is it such a straunge sight to see a Gentleman with a good conscience Par. What it is in the Court I cannot tel but in the countrie I am sure it is so Gen. Nay M. Parson you are not so sure of it as you make youre felfe for although you haue met with some that haue vsed you hardly yet you may not think but there are other some that a great many that are honest Gentlemen and will chuse rather to loose their credite then crack their conscience Par. I will not deny but that there bee a few but to say there are many of them in a Country I will neuer yéeld to it as long as I liue Gen. You may not * Mat. 7.1 iudge any M. parson but hope the best of all and leaue suche matters vnto the iudgement of God which * Apoc. 2.23 searcheth the heart and raines of al men and knoweth those that are his Par. Wel I am contented to hope well of them although I haue small cause to say wel of any of them for I haue not forgotten what scraps and paringes they haue fetched out of my benefices and yet forsooth they woulde be counted such as will doe no man harme and perswade themselues that they are men of very good consciences but if this be the fruites of a good conscience I had as lieue haue a badde conscience as a good Gen. There is no doubt of it but that a good conscience wil cause a good life and a bad consience will alwaies shewe it selfe Par. That I thinke in deed to he verie true but this grieueth mee that they will say they haue good consciences when they are starke naughte but because you are a Gentleman thinke your selfe to be a man of a good conscience I praye you let mee here according to your promise howe ou doe behaue your selfe that I may knowe how to discern a good conscience from a bad and first let me be so bold to intreat you to shew me your ●rudition from your childehoode vnto this time and what care your Father had of you in your tender yeeres to see you so wel brought vp vntill mans estate Gen. First you muste obserue that my father was a man ordeined to beare the office of a iustice in the common wealth and amongst manie children I was his eldeste sonne and my father being one that feared God had no desire so greate as to bring vp his children in the same feare and because of them al I was by nature most able to beare the greatest charge his cheefest care was to see mee wel brought vp the I might thereby learne to discharge my dutie and the better to bring this to passe I was from my infancy trained vp in learning when I came to bee of discretion I was sente to the Vniuersitie that I might the sooner attaine to that which was his desire and I being but young of yeares and wanton by nature my father for so long time wold not suffer mee to haue the bridle but spared no charge to keepe me vnder Masters and tutors that might inforce me to that which of my self I was vnwilling of al times I thoughte those daies moste greeuous wherein they wrought best for me and did like of no companie so wel as of theirs whiche did moste hurt me in this case I continued the space of my childish yeares but when I was able to discerne good from euill and my dearest friends from my greatest enemies and thought those that feared God could giue me best counsel I was neuer before so vnwilling to take their instruction as I was desirous at laste to follow their admonition and coulde like of no companie so well as theirs that were conuersant with such as were faithfull so that at length through the prouidence of God their good instructions and gentle perswasions I was gotten so far in loue with the law of the Lord that I coulde saie with the Prophet Dauid that his word was * Psal 119. sweeter vnto my soule then hony vnto my throte and I founde suche pleasure in the reading thereof that all the day long my studie was in it and the more I read the better I learned and the deeper I tasted the sweeter I felt it so that from that time to this I haue alwaies loued the lawe of the Lorde aboue golde or precious stone and am as gladde when I see it as those that haue foūd great spoiles and when it pleaseth God to take awaie my father and place me in his roome to beare the like office that he did I kn●we there was * VVis 6.4 Rom. 13.1 no power but was ordeined of God and that it was my duetie aboue all thinges to seeke his glorie I was taught by the example of Iosua that * Ios 1.8 the lawe of the Lorde ought not to departe oute of my mouth but that I shoulde studie in it day night that I might do al thinges that were written therein Thus did I begin and so doe I continue and no longer doe I desire to liue then this may be found in me for I know that right * Psal 116.13 deare in the sight of the Lorde is the death of his saintes and that the * VVis 3.11 hope of the vngodlie is vaine their labours vnfruitfull and their workes vnprofitable though they * VVis 3.17 liue long yet their end shal be without honor Par. If all this bee true that you haue saide you haue told me of a strange matter for it is as hard a thing to finde this which you haue spoken of in a man of youre calling as it is to obteine that which is past hope of finding for you being a magistrate and placed in so high a roome
world to come and that this world may not deceiue you consider it as it is and think no better of it thē it doth deserue loue it no dearer then you would your enemie for the Apostle saith * 1. Iohn 2.15 if we loue the world or the things in the world the loue of God is not in vs and if you wil say you * Ioh. 14.2.4 loue God and keepe not his commandementes you will prooue your selfe a liar there is no truth in you Know therfore the this world is vaine and al worldlie things are vanitie the righteousnes is perfect blessednes and to know God in truth is the cheefest felicitie and to put away confidence in man or any worldly helpe is to trust to a broken staffe which in th ende will deceiue you thinke no fréedome so to be desired as the seruice of God to know that better it is for you to be Christs Chaplin without a benefice then to haue all the liuinges in the worlde and bee out of his seruice and thinke it not inough to depart with one benefice and keepe two in your hand but if you may be vnburdened of that which you cannot discharge and haue pardon for your former sinnes committed say you are well vsed and finne no more and Christe teacheth vs that he that wil be his disciple * Mat. 16.2 must deny himselfe and take vp his crosse and follow him Now if I should counsel you to keepe any thing that might hurt you or hinder Gods glory I shoulde go beyond my commission and commit sin with you therefore to tel you the troth because you are an vnpreaching Prelate and vnmeet for that office I would wish you to giue ouer the function you haue no skill-of and leaue al your benefices as things that perteine not vnto you Let not so many soules perishe through one mans negligence but haue a care of your selfe as well as of them flatter not your selfe any longer least you your flock perish togeather let suche haue your roome that can teache them better and let such shere the sheepe as can feede the flocke that you may saue your selfe and thē let not worldly perswasions worke you destruction but let such flatterers goe for lyers that will tell you you are vnwise if you so doe you shall loose your credite you friends wil faile you no man wil regard you let these and such like tales goe for chaffe that is blowne awaye with the winde and whose substaunce will soone haue an ende for if the Lorde will be serued and his iudgement executed for so great a sinne al the world cannot pay your ransome neither shall any man be able to set you free Therfore in this matter deale wisely for your selfe for it is your selfe that shall stand to the stake for the whole depart with this vngodly promotion which this wicked worlde hath brought you and you shall haue treasure in heauen and because it is so that you are not able to take vppon you the charge of soules withoute the destruction of your selfe and them discharge your selfe quite of so great a daunger and keepe not a benefice for feare of displeasure Par. What wil you not haue me keepe one benefice then you deale more hardly with mee then I thought you woulde but there shal be no more adoe of the matter I will kepe my selfe as I am and therefore in vsing these perswasions you doe but loose your labour the charge is mine and I onely shall auswere for it therefore I woulde wish you to looke to your selfe and take no farther care for me Gen. What are you nowe come to this passe and is this the thanke that for my good will I shall receiue I was in good hope when you were once running you would not haue staied before you had come to the goale but oh howe true is that saying nowe fulfilled in you which was spoken so long agone that * 2. Pet. 2 2● the dogge is turned to his old vomite againe the sow that was washed to her wallowing in that mire Oh couetousnes couetousnes howe well may it be called the roote * 1 Tim. 10.6 of all euil that sendeth so many soules headlong to the diuel Par. What you are farre deceiued gentleman do you thinke that couetousnes is in mee no I abhorre it with al my heart and loue of monie is farre from me Gen. What are you not couetous I pray you what did then moue you to take 3. benefices when as one of them is liuing sufficient for you Par. I perceiue you knowe not what you say for I tel you troth I can not liue with one benefice Gen. No I praye you what is one of your benefices that doth yeelde you leaste worth you by the yeere Par. I thinke it bee woorth me a fortie or fifie pounds Gen. And I pray you what do you giue vnto your Curate by the yeare that doeth serue your benefice Par. I giue him ten pound by the yere Gen. And why can you not liue with fourty or fiftie pounds by the year as well as your Curate that hath but ten pounde by the yeare Par. I see well Gentleman you take all things at the worst but I will tell you and not lye vnto you wherfore one benefice would not content mee and so small a liuing will not satisfie me I did consider my calling how that I was a gentleman and therefore I thought it not ynough for mee to liue as the common sorte doe which are but plaine fellowes of the country and I knew no way how to make any difference but onlie by procuring my self such liuings as might mainteine me like a gentleman and being once a minister you knowe it is not lawful to possesse other liuinges then such as belong to the ministerie and therefore I had no way to make vp the matter or bring my purpose to passe but onelye by hauing two or thrée benefices and now you see the worlde what it is howe that he that hath nothing shal be nothing set by and hauing a good liuing and being able to beare some countenance he may be a companion for a right good Gentleman and I promise you these were the causes that did moue me to take so many liuings not for couetousnes sake as you do imagine Gen. Was it your chiefest regarde to haue greatest respect vnto these vanities I perceiue you are a right worldling and by a wrong dore haue entred into the ministerie you say you did respect your calling and that was how you were a gentleman ●ut I perceiue you had forgotten another calling which al ministers ought to haue regarde vnto and that is that you are no longer called to be a gentleman and to liue at ease but if you will be the man that you ought to be you must forsake your selfe and follow Christ and as neer as you may imitate his steps and then see what examples are