Selected quad for the lemma: fire_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
fire_n	lord_n	voice_n	wind_n	2,550	5	9.4969	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A57666	The new planet no planet, or, The earth no wandring star, except in the wandring heads of Galileans here out of the principles of divinity, philosophy, astronomy, reason, and sense, the earth's immobility is asserted : the true sense of Scripture in this point, cleared : the fathers and philosophers vindicated : divers theologicall and philosophicall points handled, and Copernicus his opinion, as erroneous, ridiculous, and impious, fully refuted / by Alexander Rosse ; in answer to a discourse, that the earth may be a planet.	Ross, Alexander, 1591-1654.	1646 (1646)	Wing R1970; ESTC R3474	118,883	127

a powerfull voice it is to shake the hearts of the proudest Atheists even of Caligula himselfe and to teach the most perverse Epicures that there is a God in heaven who ruleth and judgeth the earth No eloquence prevailed so much with Horace as this when hee was parcus Deorum cultor an Epicure it made him renounce his errour retro vela dare by which the Gentiles acknowledged there was a supreme God whom they called Iupiter and that hee had the power of thunder qui fulmine concutit orbem qui foedera fulmine sancit So the same Virgil acknowledgeth that the thunder made the people to stand in awe of God an te Genitor cum fulmina torques Nec quicquam horremus c. By this God moved the hearts of the Romanes to use the Christians kindly when by thunder hee overthrew the Marcomans and the Christian Legion from thence was called The thundering Legion It is his weapon with which hee fights against wicked men and which hee flings 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against perjurers as Aristophanes saith all the thundering disputations of Philosophers and the small sparkes of light or knowledge which they have of naturall causes are but toyes they are no better then glow-wormes What is the croaking of frogs to the cracking of thunder or the light of rotten wood to lightning in the aire Therefore in spight of all Naturalists let us acknowledge with David that it is the Lord that maketh the thunder that this voice of the Lord breaketh the Cedars and divideth the flames of fire and shaketh the wildernesse c. Besides the thunder is called Gods voice as the winde Gods breath by an Hebraisme as tall Cedars and high mountaines are called the Cedars and Mountaines of God the voice of God is as much as if you would say an excellent voice Then whatsoever Naturalists affirme peremptorily of the thunder I will with Iob and David acknowledge God to be the onely cause and will aske with Iob The thunder of his power who can understand Quis tonitrus sonum aut quemadmedum oriatur explicandis rationibus assequi possit saith Symmachus on these words of Iob. 15. The constellation called the 7. Starres are found you say by later discoveries to be but six What if I should grant you this and more too then you desire to wit that of old they were accounted but six of some So Ovid Dicuntur septeno sex tamen esse solent So Aratus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And generally the Poets held that though Atlas had seven daughters called Atlantides from him yet one of them to wit Merope or as others say Electra hides her face but divers others hold there be seven to be seen And S. Basil tells us in plain termes that there are seven stars of these and not six as some think but let there be seven or but six what is this to your purpose Mary that the Scripture Amos 5.8 speakes of seven starres according to common opinion being but six in Galilies glasse but indeed the Scripture speaks neither of six nor seven but of a certaine constellation which the Seventy Interpreters leave out as a thing unknown to them Symmacbru and Theodotion interprete 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the old Latine hath it Arcturus which is a starre in Bootes behinde the taile of the great Beare in English we call them Seven starres and to mine eyes they seem to be so many But if in Galilies glasse there be but six it 's no wonder for you tell us elsewhere That the better the glasse is the lesse will the starres appeare It is not like then that so small a starre can be seen through it Let therefore the number of 7. remaine it is a sacred nnmber numero Deus impare gaudet CHAPT IIII. 1. Many Philosophicall points are handled in Scripture 2. The heavens how round in the opinion of the Fathers 3. Wre must have a reverend esteem of the Fathers 4. How the seas not overflowing the land may be esteemed a miracle 5. The works of Nature may be called miracles HEre you tell us of Learned men which have fallen into great absurdities whilst they have looked for the grounds of Philosophy out of Scripture which you shew by the Iewish Rabbines and some Christian Doctors Ans. As it is vanity to seek for all Philosophicall grounds in the Scripture so it is stupidity to say there be no Philosophicall grounds or truths to be found in Scripture whereas Moses Iob David Solomon and other Penmen of the holy Ghost have divers passages of Philosophy in their writings as I have shewed heretofore of divers constellations out of Iob and why may not Philosophicall truths be sought for out of Scripture seeing Philosophy is the contemplation or knowledge of divine and naturall things both which are handled in Scripture divine things principally naturall things in the second place that by naturall things we may come to the knowledge of Divinity and by this to the attainment of eternall felicity Therefore in Scripture is recorded the creation the cause qualities and effects of the creature that by these we may come to the knowledge of the Creator If the Gentile Philosophers had not found much Philosophy in Scripture they had never conveighed so much out of it as they did into their Philosophicall books as Theodore sheweth The idle opinions of many Philosophers which are grounded neither on sense nor reason as yours of the Earth's motion are not to be sought for in Scripture but Philosophicall truths which are grounded on either or both may be sought and found there and whatsoever idle conceits the Jewes have had of Scripture or their idle fables which they have grounded on it concerne us not they were a giddy headed people given over to a reprobate sense groping at noone day having their hearts fat and their eyes blinded that they may not see their seeking for Philosophicall truths in Scripture was not the cause of their foolishnesse for few or none of them were addicted to the study of Philosophy but their owne voluntary blindnesse pride stubbornnesse and contempt of Christ the internall and essentiall Word of God are the causes of their ignorance in the externall Word so that they having forsaken the truth follow lyes But as for the Christian Doctors they have not exposed themselves to errours by adhering to the words of Scripture but you are fallen into grosse errors by rejecting the words of Scripture These which you count errours are truths as That the Sun and Moon are the greatest lights That there are waters above the firmament That the starres are innumerable as wee have already shewed As for the roundnesse of the heaven though the Fathers doubt of it yet they doe not absolutely deny it Iustine Martyr doth but aske the question Whether their opinion may not be true which hold the roundnesse of the heaven St. Ambrose saith that it is sufficient for us

not novv spend time in vievving the parts and materials of your Poeticall castle till you have brought it to perfection and then I vvill take a survey of every particular 4. I had said that a bigger body as a mill-stone vvill naturally descent svvifter then a lesse as a pebble stone the cause of this You will not have to be ascribed to the bodies bignesse but to the strength of naturall desire which that big body hath to such a motion Answ. You make a shevv as if you did ansvver our argument but in effect you ansvver nothing for if I should aske you vvhy a mill-stone falls faster then a pebble you will answer because it hath a stronger desire to fall but if I aske againe why it hath a stronger desire you answer because the bigger a thing is the stronger is its desire c. and is not your opinion now all one with mine in effect that it is the bignesse that is the cause of this swiftnesse now the same reason is appliable to bodies moving circularly for though they were in their proper scituations yet there is in them as great a desire to move about the center as there is in elementary bodies to move to and from the center therefore the greater the body is the greater desire it hath to move according to your opinion Againe I said that the winde will sooner move a great ship then a little stone you answer This is not because a ship is more easily moveable then a little stone but because a little stone is not so liable to the violence from whence its motion proceeds This answer is as wise as the former for why is not the stone as liable to the violent cause of its motion as the ship but because it is not so big therefore the ship is more easily moveable then the stone because by reason of its bignesse it 's more liable to the violent cause of its motion And when you say That I cannot throw a ship as farre as a stone I grant it but this will onely argue want of strength in me but not want of aptitude for a swifter motion in the ship then in the stone if I had strength to sling the one as well as the other A bigger bullet out of the same peece will flie farther and swifter then a lesser 5. I brought some instances to illustrate the possibility of the heavens swiftnesse as the sound of a cannon twenty miles off of the sight of a starre in a moment of the light passing suddenly from East to West of the swiftnesse of a bullet carried by the powder to these you answer That the passage of a sound is but slow compared to the heavens motion that the species of sound or sight are accidents and so is the light that the disproportion is great betwixt the heavens motion and the swiftnesse of a bullet Answ. Let the sound and light and species be what they will be they are moved and if they be accidents they cannot be moved alone but with the subject in which they are inherent therefore if there be such swiftnesse in the motion of these what need we doubt of the swiftnesse of the heavens and if accidents can be so swiftly moved with and in their subjects much swifter must be these heavenly substances having no resistance whose matter is so pure that it is a great furtherance to their motion and though there be great disproportion betwixt the bullets motion and the heavens swiftnesse yet the motion of the one serves to illustrate the swiftnesse of the other And yet I take not upon me as you doe peremptorily to tell how swift the heavens are and though I said that the light was an accident yet I said also that it was corpori simillimum that it comes very neere to the nature of a body neither did Aristotle prove the light to be no body because of its swiftnesse as if no body were capable of that swiftnesse for then he should contradict himselfe as you use to doe but he meanes that no sublunarie body had so swift a motion It had been folly to illustrate the swiftnesse of the bullets motion by the motion of the hand in the watch for there by many other motions far swifter then this to expresse the bullets motion but of sublunary motions there be none swifter then those I alledged to illustrate the motion of heaven 6. You would have the earth to be both the efficient and finall cause of its motion But indeed it is neither the one nor the other for if it move at all it must be moved by another mover then it selfe and God made the heavens not for the earth but for man so the diurnall and annuall motions have man for their finall cause and heavenly movers for their efficient 2. You say That nature is never tedious in that which may be done an easier way This I will not grant you for nature doth not still worke the easiest but the most convenient way but I deny that the earths motion is either more easie or more convenient then that of heaven for a light body such as heaven is is more easily moved then a heavy and it is more convenient that the foundation of our houses should remain firme and stable then moveable as I said I could tell you how laborious and tedious nature is in the perfecting of mans body and of many other things therefore she doth not take still the most compendious way 3. You say It is not likely that the heaven should undergoe so great and constant a worke which might be saved by the circumvolution of the earths body How tender hearted are you are you afraid that the heavens will grow wearie and I pray you is not heaven sitter to undergoe a great and constant worke then the earth so small so dull so heavy so subject to change a great worke is fit for a great body and a constant work fit for that body that knoweth no unconstancy 4. You are deceived when you say That the heaven receiveth no perfection by its motion but is made serviceable to this little ball of earth The perfection of heaven consisteth in its motion as the earths perfection in its rest neither was heaven made to serve this ball but to serve him who was made Lord of this ball 5. Your Similies of a mother warming her childe of a Cooke rosting his meat of a man on a tower of a Watch maker are all frivolous For a mother turneth her childe and a Cook his meat to the fire because the fire cannot turne it selfe to them the motion is in them not in the fire so he that is on a tower turnes himselfe round to see the countrey because the countrey cannot turne it selfe about him If you had proved to us that the heaven cannot move but that it is the earth that moveth then we should yeeld that the earth did foolishly to expect the celestiall fire to turne about her but

this you have not as yet proved neither will you be ever able to prove The earth indeed is a mother but as senslesse and stupid as Niobe who would suffer her children to starve with cold if that heavenly fire did not move about her As for your instance of a Watch-maker I will use it in your owne words but to our purpose If a wise Watch-maker will not put any superfluous motion in his instrument shall we not thinke that nature is as provident as any ordinary mechanicke Therefore doubtlesse it had been superfluous for the earth to move And whereas you say That the motion of the starres is full of confusion and uncertainties That is true in respect of your ignorance there is an heavenly order and harmony amongst them the confusion is in your head and the uncertainty in your knowledge 7. You say That motion is most agreeable to that which in kinde and properties is neerest to the bodies that are moved But this I say is false for an immoveable body is not made capable of motion because it is neere in some properties to the body that is moved A rocke and a mill-stone which perhaps was taken out of the same rocke agree in kinde and properties will it therefore follow that because the mill-stone moves round the rocke also moves round The sea-water and well-water agree in kinde and properties doth the well-water therefore ebbe and flow But your drift is to shew That the earth moveth with the six Planets because both Earth and Planets have a borrowed light whereas the Sunne and fixed Stars have it of their own Answ. A goodly reason the earth must move as well as the sixe Planets because it hath a borrowed light as well as they as if you would say Saturne and the Moone have a borrowed light therefore they have the same motion and bignesse or thus the Planets have a borrowed light as well as the earth therefore they rest or be as heavie as the earth but what if I should say the Planets have some light of their owne as may be seen by the Moone which the earth hath not and therefore they agree not in this property of light and consequently the earth moveth not as they doe But when you say the fixed stars have light of their owne you speake at randome for you can shew no reason of this conceit why the fixed starres should have light of their owne and not the Planets or why the Planets borrow light and not the fixed stars Againe you thinke That the Sunne and Stars should rest because they are of a more excellent nature As if motion did belong to the ignoblest creatures we know the contrary Man is a more noble creature then a rocke yet man moveth and the rocke is immoveable The heart in our bodies is more noble then the guts yet that moveth they move not Is the body of man lesse excellent when it is moved by the soule then when it is at rest putrifying in the grave When water rests from its motion it loseth its excellencie and stinketh therefore motion in many things is more noble then rest as for the rest which you say is ascribed to God that is not to our purpose for it is transcendent and hyperphysicall and as God is said to rest so he is said to move therefore called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But why you should thinke the fixed Starres of a more excellent nature then the Planets I know not neither can you give any reason for it 8. Aristotle you say tels us that the time of the revolution of each orbe should be proportionable to its bignesse which can only be you thinke By making the earth a Planet I answer that of two evills the lesse is to be chosen and better it is that there should be some disproportion between the bignesse of the orbes and the time of their motion then that the earth should move 2. You cannot exactly tell what disproportion there is in their motions till first you finde out the true knowledge of their magnitudes That the Comets which move in the aire are not moved by the heavens but by the earth you prove Because the concave superficies of the Moone is thought to be smooth so that the meere touch of it cannot turne about the fire with a motion not naturall to it nor can the subtle fire move the thicker aire nor this the waters Answ. How the upper spheares move the lower is neither knowne to you nor me but by conjectures 2. I have already shewed that one smooth body by its touch may move another as the winde moves the clouds so in the Northerne seas one mountaine of ice which is smooth moves the other forward 3. The subtiltie and puritie of the fire is no hinderance to its moving of the thicker aire for doe not our animall spirits which are pure and subtle and yet materiall move our grosse bodies Doth not the winde move grosse substances 4. That the aire doth not move the water is repugnant to experience for within the Tropickes the sea is continually moved from East to West by the aire and this by the heaven as I have shewed elsewhere 5. That the circular motion of the fire is not naturall is false for though this motion proceed not from an inward principle as the straight motion doth yet it is naturall because the nature of the fire is preserved by it for the fire never gives off moving upward till it begin to move circularly and then is it in its chiefe perfection when it hath attained this motion Lansbergius you say concludes that the earth is easily moveable from the words of Archimedes who said that he could move the earth if he knew where to stand and fasten his instrument it is a foolish conclusion for so he might as well conclude that armed men may arise out of the ground because Pompey said that if he did but stampe with his foot the ground would yeeld him armed men So because Medaea said Ego inter auras aliti curru vebar That shee would flie in the aire in a chariot drawne by dragons that therefore shee could doe as shee said this is to play the Poet. 9. The opinion of Intelligences by which the heavens are moved you say hath its originall from Aristotle's mistake who held the heavens to be eternall I answer that Aristotle was mistaken in holding the heavens to be eternall à priori but I deny that there is any errour in holding them to be eternall à posteriori in respect of their substance 2. Aristotle might have held the opinion of Intelligences without holding the heavens to be eternall for the eternity of the mover doth not necessarily inferre the eternity of the thing moved God is eternall so is not the world our soules are eternall so are not our bodies 3. You prove That Intelligences are superfluous because a naturall power intrinsecall to these bodies will serve the turne as well So you might