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A68850 A mothers teares ouer hir seduced sonne: or A dissuasiue from idolatry penned in way of a dialogue, by occasion of a late letter from the sonne now at Doway, to his mother: which is also printed vvith the letter, and is fully set downe in the sonnes part, for the substance, though with some addition in forme.; Answere of a mother unto hir seduced sonnes letter. 1627 (1627) STC 24903.5; ESTC S114250 89,317 193

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done Why he was no more able to hurt then a dead dog could bite and therefore art thou O Lord my King and thou also Abner alive at this time and your eyes may behold both the speare and pott that was so nigh thy Masters Pillovv and my Master Saul may heare too and now I hope both my Lord and Abner from this very day will be able to discerne truth and innocency from wickednesse which ever proceedeth from the wicked man and be able to point at it too with the finger saying there it is behold Child Saul doth it he knowes the voice of David and it melts him into teares and see what he saith thou art more righteous then I thou hast rewarded me good when I rewarded thee evill and now my Child rhou hast seene truths guize and hir childrens carriage how meeke how harmlesse Thou maist likewise discerne the Beasts mark and from whence wickednesse doth proceed I know no motive in the world except the secret working of Gods Spirit more prevalent to cause thee to come away unlesse thou hast not a Sauls discerning But because I know thou art blind folded and hast no light but what comes in by chaunes and crevises I will contract what hath been sayd concerning these two Mothers into an Embleme one or two which thou maist perceiue by the least glimmering Then I will turne thee to two places of Scriptures from which thou shalt make thine owne collection The first Emblem shall bee of the holy Mother and a Mother shall be it An Hecuba in travell with a fire brand and forth it comes rushing into the Bush of the Church Or a Iezabell plotting the death of poore Naboth because he will not part with the Vinyard the inheritance of his Fathers She must not keep it for all her painting downe she must be cast like a milstone The Doggs did eate the flesh of Iezabel Take the Embleme of hir eldest sonnes and sonnes shall be it Samsons three hundred foxes running about the field with firebrands at their tailes see what hurt they doe the shock● are burnt Or for variety sake look upon the Gadarens heard of swine but not running into the lake though an evill spirit be in them The day of recompence for Sions controversie is not yet yet the enemy is not brought to the valley of Iehosophat to bee iudged there we must looke on them running into the vineyard that must be more w●st we leave them rooting there But here is the cōfort Is it wast is Sharon a wildernes now I will up saith the Lord I will give to Israel the opening of the month in the midst of them and they shall know that I am the Lord. Ezech. 29. 21. Take the Embleme of she true Mother and that is made to our hands you heard hir begging of the Childs life Take the Embleme of hir Children David cursed and pelted at by Shimes and praying the while Steven stoning and even then saying Lord lay not this ot their charge We have done with the Emblemes wee turne to the Scriptures the first is 1 Kings 19. 11. There came a great strong wind but the Lord was not in the wind nor in the earth-quake nor in the fire There came a still and soft voice there the Lord was Make thy collection now here are two both would be Mothers both would speake in the evidence of the same spirits which of these comes like a wind renting as it goes like an earth-quake opening graves as it goes like a fire scorching as it goes or in a still and soft voice instructing perswading blessing praying as it goes with whom the soft voice is there the Lord is Answer this unto him who understands thy thoughts long before I have done with that Scripture we find the other 2 Sam. 7. compared with 1 Chron. 22. 8. where is something will hold us from our purpose a little for the Readers sake We find David sitting in his house and in peace yet not confined to his owne particular interest and looking no further one eye is on his house the other on the Arke and he sees no correspondency And yet he that hath Davids observation may observe a greater disproportion betwixt his conveniences the Arks now then was betwixt Davids and the Arkes then he sitts in his house of hewed stone he heares no complaining in the streetes Gods footstepps drop fatnesse towards him there are his conveniences What are the Arkes The enemy hath raised a mighty storme and the Arke hath scarce curtaines to keep it off I know well on the glory there i● a defence but I speak of that covering the outward eye may discerne Certainly if the consideration of David be this mans precept the practise of David will be his patterne whose mind was presently on worke how he might build an house for the Arke too Yet Nathan must stay his hand that must not be put to the worke We came purposely hither to enquire the reason of that but I desire the Reader would marke one thing by the way Though it were taken out of the power of Davids hand to build an house for the Arke yet the Lord tells him thou didst well in that it was in thy heart 2 Chro. 6. 8. A mans hand may be kept from the Arke every one cannot visibly worke the securitie of it nor bring it within Cedars Nay though the Arke shake every hand is not worthy to hold it up A man must looke to his warrant specially when he goes about the busines of the Arke But marke this they shall prosper that loue thee We wish you prosperitie in the name of the Lord O it is a gratious thing even when the hand can doe nothing But M●roz with the inhabitants were curs● bitterly Iudg 5. 23. And the men of S●c●oth were taught that i● the word by briers and th●r●●● Iudg. 8. 16. That was a sore teaching but who can help it They that will not be taught by instruction must be taught by paine 2. Esd 9. 12. It is Apocryph● thou maist keep it in thy Bible when it ●out of thy Creed and let it teach thee when thou look'st upon thy house of Ceder I meane thy many many conveniences many positrue many privatiue to haue the Arke in thy heart for this is to remember the Chare●● of Israel and the horse men thereof that is the Church The glory of Israel that is the Gospell The Paules in prison and she Iaseps in affliction for this glorie for thy sake are we killed all the day long now what thou doest for these or any of these they ●●e so like thou canst not distinguish them thou doest it to Christ and thou shewest mercy to thy owe soule For these will pray that thy mercy may be returned to thee thine in the tempestivitie of time The Lord ●●ew mercy to Onesiphorus in that day Nor is that all the Lord shew mercy to the whole house of Onesiphorus Now to
the soule of the diligent shall be made fatt As it is a fearfull thing to commit ones selfe to Gods mercy Lord Lord and yet fit still the while so is it dangerous to commit ones selfe to Gods providence and indeavour nothing I never heard of any mans will but it bequeath'd his soule to God let the living man be carefull to prove his will in his life time by double diligence as by two sure witnesses For certainly as the sluggard hath lost his meate so will he venture his legacie I am now lapping up that which was last said as closse together as I can and let the Child hearken even every one who is a child in understanding Thou must trust God with the blessing he trusts thee with the meanes if thou art not a wise steweard in the one thou dost foolishly expect the other Againe when thou seest thy way walke in it and goe down unto Gods providence by meanes as by stepps and staires so maist thou lay thy selfe downe upon it as upon a bed of Camamile safely Againe dost thou perceive no way art thou in a wildernesse and canst discerne no path in a strait and see'st no meanes yet grope not for them in the darke by any meànes but reach forth thy hand unto the Lord willingly as Abraham did he obeyed and went out not knowing whither The Lord can lead thee whose property it is to shew his mercy then greatest when nearest to be utterly despaired off to doe the greatest things by contraries To deale with men as he did with Pauls passengers to break the ship on which they bottome themselves yet to bring them to land Thou had questioned the Churches being before Luther in another letter thou art answered but because thou art never likely to see it marke this one thing more which I shall now tell thee touching Gods providence in answer to that rotten question God hath and doth doe great things by Ashur he layes wast and cuts downe not a few But the Lord will never doe a great thing for Ashur What is that The Lord will never make his Arme bare for Ashur he will never shew himselfe in the Mount to Ashur he will never strike off his charet wheels and yet bring him safe to shore when they goe heavily he sinkes like a stone This giving an issue this opening the waters this paving a path in the wildernesse is Abrahams prerogative royall I meane the Churches portion for ever Ancient dayes can speake this the following shall declare it Consider this thou lookest beyond Luther It cleares our eyes too Iacob is small his hands hang downe Iacobs ship is almost broke he will sinke sure No this doeth but unbottome him see him rouling himselfe upon Gods providence and there resting till the Lord make bare his Arme in all the peoples sight so carrying him to the place where he would be as upon the wings of an Eagle Thus Abraham as dying lives by faith whose propertie it is to rest on God most when it sees least to relie on God above meanes against meanes Now but one word to thee Reader before I leave the Churches treasure Gods providence Thou art yet in no strait That is a wonder Doth the fire claspe the house and is thy chamber in safety doth it not smell of the smoke then God is exceeding patient towards thee as appeareth this day yet canst thou not discerne the wind which way it beares the flame If thou thinkst not thou maist be in a strait shortly thou considerest nothing and if thou considerest it thou wilt be never the sooner io it but the further from it In the meane time thou hast heard with thy eares and Iobs messengers have told thee that there is one at this day in a strait and sees no meanes thou maist be sure it is the Church in a wildernesse can discerne no path What doe we man for hir what shall we doe for our selves what We know not what to doe our eyes are onely to thee O Lord then it went well with Iehosophat I have done with this mans casting away his goods and then himselfe upon the Churches treasure We must iudge nothing before the time he that iudgeth is the Lord who will bring to light the hidden things of darknesse 1 Cor. 4. I haue yet more to say unto my child to bring him out of liking with this mans bodily exercise will worship his assumed not commanded services not onely shewes and shaddowes but such as hold the heart contented without the trueth for what can Please the heart better then some things of his owne chusing which shall not be so sharpe I warrant thee but that he may keep upon the lees and detaine his old sent still O my child let but thy heart once go a whoring this way it is strange how it will dote upon these things as a harlot upon hir lovers no cost shall be thought too much rivers of oyle shall goe no travell too long a thousand miles on pilgrimage if you will No paynes too hard no pennance too paienfull the the heart will as easily turne in unto these things as the Israelits were perswaded to returne into Aegypt or Sisera persued by Barak intreated to returne into Iaels tent Alas child any tent will serue the turne for a time to take a little milke in and so to bring it a sleepe when like a wearied child it is willing to rest Or like a persued Sisera it would faine be at quiet A Cloister may serue the turne a Scelb a Crucifix a stripe a pilgrimage a little holy water a diridge an Ave-Marie let the heart but haue a Saint one its litle or a pardon about its neck and what can hurt him O child why dost thou gaze one these things what is this But for thee to make lyes thy refuge and under falshood to seeke to hide thy selfe for what are these Or any of these or ought else of these assumed seruices but like the Harlots wiping hir mouth or Pilats washing his hands Good child fall not a sleep here or if thou hast in these Iaels Tents taken of the milke and it's pleasant unto thee yet for thy soul● sake keep thy eyes waking For behold a stronger then Barak pursues thee Iudgment will he also lay to the line and righteousnes to the plummet and the haile shall sweep away the refuge of lyes and the water shall overflow these hiding places and thou shalt not stand when the overflowing scourge shall passe over thou wilt be trodden downe by it for the bed is shorter then that a man can stretch himselfe on it and the cover narrower then that he can wrap himselfe in it Good Child sleepe not How willingly would a poore mother keep her child waking when if he sleepe his sleep would proue and iron sleepe he will never wake againe How shall I indure the death of my Sonne O harke unto thy mother child that would faine keep
her breasts and suckled thee so feeding thee with milke till thou couldst beare strong meate Now thou risest up as a gaine saying child against the mother her house hast thou dealt truely with this Mother hast thou Harken unto me that the Lord may harken unto thee Hast thou dealt faithfully with thy owne soule Thou hast left the fatnes of the Oliue the sweetnesse of the Figtree the wine of the Vine and thou hast put thy trust under the shadow of the Bramble It is true of all the trees of the Forrest non so ready to boast of protection as is the Bramble It is strange what a shadow it seemes to cast like that we read off in the 4 of Daniell the Cedars may come under it nay must they will not be safe else but it is a dreame-Doest thou not know whether the Bramble must goe Can it stand against the fire Can it keepe off the he●● at noone I●na● was exceeding glad of his go●●d but did it sheilter him when the 〈…〉 one the head of 〈…〉 fainting time will come child and ●he strongest man this day living shall find it so a vehement wind the Sunne at noone will beate upon thy head and then it will be too late to seeke for a sheilte● we must thinke of this fainting time vvhile it is to day Novv there is a tree whose l●●ves 〈◊〉 heale the nations under which there is a sure shadow the bramble not so The olive 〈◊〉 hath much fatness●● the bramble not so The f●ggtr●● much sweetness● the bramble not so The Vine cheareth mans heart the bramble not so It is prepared for the fire the end is burning so is the its that trust under hir shadow as thou shalt heare anon Hast thou dealt faithfully with thy owne soule Then doe thou re●●●ce●● the Bramble and let the Bramble reioyce in th●e But if not then yet let thy soule hearken unto thy Mother that the Lord may hearken unto thee If the Lord hath left thee to the counsail● of thy owne heart which he may doe as not bound to the creature a rebellious creature and this is to be acknowledged let him accept an offering even the ●alv●● of thy lipps that he who i● the tr … wold lead th●● into all truth See thy face towards heaven resigne thy selfe to God to be guided in the way thither a● David did who know the way better th●● thou or I with ●●y whole heare have I sought th●● O let me not w●●der from thy commandements But if they be the children of men who have entised thee and beguiled thy poore soule which vvill likewise be acknowledged I will not pronounce the Lords curse against them for I have not Davids spirit but the Lord be mercifull to the blind leaders of the blind and remember them not after their dealing for they have driven thee out this day from the abiding in the inheritance of the Lord saying so sake the rock even the only rock of thy salvation and goe serve other gods I am now at the bottome of thy letter that shall conclude my Answer Thou seemedst to perswade thy selfe thou art another Ioseph sent before to prouide for thy Mother and hir Children and were it so and that now I have heard from thee let hir who hath the heart of a Mother c is acquainted vvith the yearnings of the bovvells say vvhether she thinks not althogh novvagon is come that I vvould presently take my staffe and trudge avvay yea and not feele the vveary stepps though my legs be old this thought vvould still be better then vvine to refresh me I shall see my Sonne before I die But alas the case is different hovv doth a beguiled heart deceive thee your Aegypt hath proved an iron furnace to our Israell and at the best a staffe of reed I dare not venture my selfe so no nor yet thy brother neither though thou like a good Iudah wilt undertake for thy brother Beniamen thy Mother will not trust thee to be thy brothers keeper unlesse thou couldest keep thy selfe better why should I be robbed of both my Children Alas Child I well knovv your Aegypt is full of inchantments aske a Mother now and she will tell thee whether she will venture a Child as boyes venture pi●s and points hazard two that they may find one she will not doe it a Child is dearer then so Againe why should I send my Child over to you for bread Why our staffe is not yet broken it is Gods goodnesse it is not if it should be which our unthankfulnesse threatens what have we to doe with the broken reed of Aegypt that would deceive us we have yet store of bread in our fathers house rebellious children though we are but through our fathers patience we have it and the children are fat and well liking upon it but if we were thrust out of dore as we have well deserved it yet we could not eate your Gibeonitish bread which hath nothing to shew its antiquity but that it is dry and mouldy nor could we goe to eat among the swine Husks such empty things we do daily pray Lord give us evermore of this bread But if the Lord be deafe towards us as he may justly be he bath called to us and we have not hearkned how could we expect that Baall could heare us I trust we should never seek to Eckron we know we have a God in Israell and we hope we shall not goe from the living to the dead To speak yet more plainly we have Moyses and the Prophets and thy are read amongst us even to this day and it is wonderfull in our eyes and the Saints see wonders in it if we do not belieue them neither should we believe though some of us were sent unto your dead or some of your dead were sent unto us But to cut of all hope of comming over unto you and yet to confirme this hope of thy returne unto us I tell thee besides that Christ hath set a sword to stop the way unto thee which in some cases must divide betweene Mother and Child brother and sister there is a kind of gulfe betwixt us yet passable on thy part that strengtheneth my hope a se● betwixt us no lesse full of blood then that other is of water For is it not plaine unto thee what havock the whore hath made of the Churches what threatnings she hath breathed forth what rivers of blood she hath shed how she hath killed and scourged persecuted the Saints Martyrs of the Lord Iesus that may come upon hir all the righteous blood shed upon the earth from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of all the Prophetts Apostles and Martyrs that have beene slaine O Child what a sea is here Certainly he that hath any light will not venture here he that hath no●e walketh in darknesse and knowes not where he shall fall and plunge himselfe Then there is no comming for us to