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fire_n air_n earth_n element_n 11,896 5 9.9757 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A14461 The Christian disputations, by Master Peter Viret. Deuided into three partes, dialogue wise: set out with such grace, that it cannot be, but that a man shall take greate pleasure in the reading thereoff. Translated out of French into English, by Iohn Brooke of Ashe; Disputations chrestiennes. English Viret, Pierre, 1511-1571.; Calvin, Jean, 1509-1564.; Brooke, John, d. 1582. 1579 (1579) STC 24776; ESTC S119193 490,810 627

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the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o agree_v more_o than_o it_o do_v of_o the_o dead_a to_o the_o live_n second_o because_o that_o they_o themselves_o can_v better_o perceive_v of_o their_o estate_n and_o condition_n and_o whether_o they_o be_v more_o in_o pain_n or_o whethether_o they_o be_v out_o of_o it_o than_o we_o for_o there_o be_v more_o agree_v of_o the_o spirit_n to_o the_o spirit_n which_o be_v separate_v from_o the_o body_n then_o to_o we_o which_o be_v yet_o wrap_v in_o they_o and_o which_o be_v more_o if_o that_o the_o soul_n of_o mor._n purgatory_n do_v know_v either_o by_o divine_a revelation_n or_o by_o the_o report_n of_o angel_n or_o of_o the_o soul_n of_o they_o which_o daily_o do_v depart_v out_o of_o this_o world_n that_o which_o be_v do_v upon_o earth_n as_o your_o doctor_n do_v testify_v and_o affirm_v can_v they_o not_o aswell_o report_n and_o tell_v unto_o the_o saint_n that_o which_o be_v do_v in_o purgatory_n it_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v true_a i●_z there_o be_v any_o but_o that_o they_o be_v better_o advertise_v than_o we_o and_o that_o many_o way_n and_o if_o they_o be_v advertise_v i_o can_v believe_v that_o they_o be_v so_o inhuman_a and_o ungentle_a if_o they_o do_v pray_v for_o the_o live_n but_o that_o they_o do_v pray_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o for_o those_o poor_a soul_n sith_o that_o they_o be_v in_o so_o grievous_a torment_n without_o any_o comparison_n that_o may_v be_v in_o the_o world_n i_o do_v speak_v always_o according_a to_o your_o doctrine_n and_o this_o be_v the_o third_o reason_n by_o the_o which_o i_o will_v conclude_v against_o the_o priest_n either_o that_o the_o saint_n do_v not_o pray_v for_o the_o live_n or_o the_o it_o be_v in_o like_a manner_n necessary_a and_o a_o great_a deal_n more_o needful_a that_o they_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a now_o if_o they_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a i_o be_o of_o a_o opinion_n that_o we_o leave_v unto_o they_o all_o the_o charge_n for_o it_o agree_v better_a to_o they_o then_o 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they_o have_v also_o their_o holy_a winnowinge_n or_o faminge_n which_o they_o use_v chief_o at_o the_o feast_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o god_n bacchus_n the_o which_o they_o make_v with_o a_o fan_n consecrate_v for_o that_o purpose_n theophilus_n behold_v the_o dream_n wherein_o man_n do_v fall_v yea_o the_o most_o wise_a when_o they_o give_v themselves_o bacchus_n to_o play_v the_o philosopher_n with_o heavenly_a thing_n after_o their_o own_o fantasy_n and_o mind_n without_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n and_o that_o they_o do_v seek_v the_o purgation_n of_o their_o sin_n in_o their_o purgatory_n beside_o jesus_n christ_n thomas_n i_o think_v that_o we_o do_v yet_o retain_v almost_o all_o those_o custom_n for_o we_o do_v light_n and_o offer_v torch_n taper_n and_o candle_n of_o wax_n as_o well_o for_o the_o dead_a as_o for_o those_o
canon_n which_o be_v make_v but_o yet_o at_o this_o day_n that_o error_n continue_v among_o the_o bohemian_n and_o moravians_n the_o which_o moravians_n yet_o nevertheless_o the_o papist_n themselves_o do_v not_o allow_v no_o more_o than_o that_o which_o s._n cyprian_a &_o origene_n do_v which_o do_v distribute_v the_o supper_n unto_o young_a child_n when_o their_o father_n origen_n and_o mother_n bring_v they_o in_o their_o arm_n in_o come_v to_o communicate_v the_o same_o and_o they_o give_v unto_o they_o not_o only_o the_o bread_n but_o also_o the_o cup._n now_o let_v we_o think_v if_o already_o such_o error_n be_v about_o the_o sacrament_n in_o that_o time_n there_o what_o may_v chance_v afterward_o for_o cyprian_n reign_v about_o the_o year_n after_o the_o death_n and_o passion_n of_o jesus_n christ_n two_o hundred_o and_o fifty_o those_o worthy_a man_n will_v not_o have_v so_o much_o attribute_v unto_o the_o sacrament_n if_o they_o have_v not_o so_o much_o take_v to_o the_o rigour_n and_o to_o the_o letter_n the_o word_n of_o jesus_n christ_n of_o the_o like_a beginning_n come_v up_o the_o error_n of_o those_o which_o esteem_v &_o think_v the_o he_o which_o after_o that_o he_o be_v baptize_v &_o have_v once_o receive_v the_o supper_n can_v never_o be_v damn_v or_o at_o the_o least_o shall_v be_v once_o deliver_v from_o damnation_n because_o that_o jesus_n christ_n have_v say_v i_o be_o that_o live_a bread_n that_o come_v down_o from_o heaven_n if_o 5_o anyman_n eat_v of_o this_o bread_n he_o shall_v live_v for_o ever_o they_o urge_v upon_o the_o letter_n &_o say_v that_o jesus_n christ_n can_v not_o lie_v which_o have_v promise_v the_o same_o yet_o nevertheless_o saint_n augustine_n rebuke_v &_o confute_v their_o error_n behold_v supper_n y_fw-fr absurdity_n into_o which_o man_n do_v fall_v for_o fault_n of_o well_o examine_v the_o scripture_n &_o when_o they_o do_v take_v they_o according_a to_o the_o rigour_n of_o the_o letter_n for_o whosoever_o will_v according_a to_o the_o opinion_n which_o the_o papist_n have_v of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o altar_n take_v literal_o y_fw-mi which_o jesus_n christ_n say_v of_o eat_v of_o his_o flesh_n &_o drink_v his_o blood_n there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o that_o we_o shall_v be_v constrain_v to_o confess_v that_o all_o those_o which_o have_v once_o take_v the_o supper_n be_v all_o save_v and_o in_o all_o those_o which_o shall_v not_o once_o receive_v it_o be_v all_o damn_a and_o so_o it_o shall_v be_v no_o less_o requisite_a to_o give_v in_o supper_n unto_o the_o young_a child_n &_o to_o give_v power_n unto_o woman_n to_o give_v it_o they_o then_z a'n_z baptism_n they_o y_fw-fr will_v take_v the_o word_n &_o those_o matter_n by_o a'n_z rigour_n and_o therefore_o for_o to_o return_v to_o the_o place_n by_o thou_o allege_v by_o the_o absurdity_n which_o shall_v follow_v of_o thy_o exposition_n the_o which_o do_v repugn_v against_o the_o grace_n of_o jesus_n christ_n as_o i_o have_v declare_v unto_o thou_o thou_o may_v well_o know_v that_o we_o must_v not_o understand_v that_o place_n after_o that_o manner_n as_o thou_o do_v expound_v it_o for_o jesus_n christ_n speak_v not_o in_o that_o place_n there_o of_o visible_a baptism_n nor_o of_o his_o institution_n 3_o but_o speak_v of_o the_o regeneration_n of_o man_n and_o show_v what_o thing_n he_o must_v have_v for_o to_o be_v a_o christian_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v necessary_a that_o he_o do_v renounce_v &_o forsake_v his_o first_o generation_n &_o nativity_n which_o be_v altogether_o corrupt_v and_o curse_a and_o that_o he_o be_v regenerate_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n and_o 45_o through_o the_o incorruptible_a seed_n of_o his_o word_n insomuch_o that_o he_o be_v make_v a_o new_a creature_n bear_v the_o image_n of_o jesus_n christ_n the_o true_a celestial_a adam_n even_o as_o he_o have_v bear_v that_o of_o the_o old_a and_o terrestrial_a adam_n and_o therefore_o 3_o have_v he_o say_v except_o a_o man_n be_v bear_v from_o above_o or_o a_o new_a be_v can_v see_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n and_o after_o he_o expound_v it_o by_o the_o other_o proposition_n follow_v which_o signify_v none_o other_o thing_n then_o that_o which_o he_o have_v already_o say_v before_o for_o to_o be_v bear_v from_o above_o or_o to_o be_v water_n bear_v again_o and_o to_o be_v bear_v of_o water_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v equivalent_a manner_n of_o speak_n and_o the_o two_o proposition_n of_o jesus_n christ_n be_v equipolent_a y_fw-fr one_o to_o the_o other_o &_o there_o be_v none_o other_o difference_n save_v that_o y●_n last_o be_v more_o ample_a and_o expound_v the_o first_o for_o sith_o that_o our_o first_o nativity_n be_v carnal_a it_o must_v be_v you_o the_o second_o be_v spiritual_a sith_o that_o 47_o the_o first_o man_n be_v of_o the_o earth_n earthly_a it_o be_v requisite_a that_o the_o second_o which_o be_v from_o heaven_n be_v heavenly_a and_o spiritual_a now_o that_o regeneration_n &_o transformation_n can_v be_v make_v but_o by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n for_o as_o it_o be_v write_v in_o that_o same_o place_n that_o which_o be_v bear_v of_o the_o flesh_n be_v flesh_n that_o that_o 6._o be_v bear_v of_o the_o spirit_n be_v spirit_n and_o therefore_o jesus_n christ_n willing_a to_o expound_v unto_o nicodemus_n y_fw-fr which_o he_o have_v say_v before_o except_o y_fw-mi a_o man_n be_v bear_v from_o above_o or_o a_o new_a he_o can_v see_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n afterwards_o say_v which_o shall_v not_o be_v bear_v of_o water_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n because_o that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n author_n of_o that_o regeneration_n be_v give_v from_o above_o which_o work_v a_o second_o nativity_n in_o we_o which_o be_v celestial_a and_o spiritual_a eusebius_n but_o what_o need_v it_o to_o add_v the_o water_n be_v it_o not_o sufficient_a to_o name_v the_o holy_a ghost_n theophilus_n wherefore_o have_v john_n baptist_n say_v speak_v 11._o of_o the_o ministry_n of_o jesus_n christ_n that_o he_o will_v baptise_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o with_o fire_n what_o need_v it_o sith_o that_o he_o name_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o add_v unto_o it_o the_o fire_n shall_v it_o be_v therefore_o necessary_a to_o constitute_v a_o baptism_n of_o the_o fire_n as_o some_o do_v say_v that_o some_o christian_n which_o be_v amongst_o y_fw-es indian_n aethiopian_n &_o persian_n do_v who_o for_o that_o indian_n cause_n do_v use_v the_o fire_n for_o baptism_n of_o the_o fire_n eusebius_n one_o may_v well_o perceive_v there_o that_o saint_n john_n take_v the_o fire_n by_o a_o metaphor_n and_o that_o he_o understand_v no_o other_o thing_n by_o the_o fire_n than_o the_o holy_a ghost_n of_o who_o he_o have_v already_o speak_v the_o better_a to_o expound_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o same_o for_o as_o the_o fire_n be_v pure_a &_o clean_a and_o can_v suffer_v any_o spot_n fire_n or_o filth_n but_o purge_v make_v clean_o &_o illuminate_v the_o conscience_n &_o inflame_v they_o to_o the_o love_n of_o god_n for_o which_o cause_n he_o be_v send_v unto_o y_fw-es apostle_n in_o y●_n likeness_n of_o tongue_n 3_o of_o fire_n the_o which_o s._n john_n do_v foresee_v &_o forespeak_v off_o use_v such_o word_n theophilus_n thy_o exposition_n do_v please_v i_o very_o much_o wherefore_o if_o thou_o make_v it_o not_o difficulty_n to_o take_v in_o that_o place_n the_o fire_n for_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n &_o for_o more_o ample_a exposition_n of_o his_o nature_n &_o property_n wherefore_o ought_v thou_o to_o make_v a_o doubt_n to_o take_v y_fw-mi water_n in_o that_o place_n for_o that_o same_o signification_n see_v you_o agree_v y_fw-es the_o water_n have_v with_o the_o nature_n of_o y_fw-es holy_a ghost_n for_o there_o be_v no_o less_o reason_n but_o a_o great_a deal_n more_o appearance_n for_o saint_n john_n put_v the_o holy_a ghost_n first_o &_o the_o fire_n afterward_o wherefore_o it_o seem_v either_o that_o he_o understand_v two_o thing_n separate_v or_o that_o he_o expound_v the_o thing_n more_o clear_a by_o a_o more_o dark_a thing_n although_o that_o thy_o answer_n do_v sufficient_o satisfy_v that_o objection_n but_o in_o that_o place_n jesus_n christ_n put_v y_fw-mi water_n first_o &_o afterward_o as_o if_o he_o will_v water_n expound_v his_o metaphor_n and_o comparison_n and_o give_v unto_o it_o more_o great_a brightness_n he_o declare_v what_o he_o will_v signify_v by_o that_o water_n to_o wit_n the_o holy_a ghost_n unto_o who_o he_o give_v that_o name_n for_o many_o cause_n first_o because_o that_o as_o the_o fire_n be_v a_o element_n marvellous_a pure_a and_o clean_a and_o so_o necessary_a unto_o man_n life_n that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o man_n to_o lack_v it_o so_o be_v it_o of_o y_fw-fr water_n the_o which_o be_v also_o by_o nature_n clear_v pure_a and_o