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after_o for_o in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v no_o more_o but_o neither_o do_v caluyn_n say_v he_o nor_o any_o of_o these_o father_n mention_n either_o the_o use_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a church_n nor_o do_v any_o father_n speak_v of_o all_o these_o ceremony_n together_o nor_o can_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o the_o sign_n and_o form_n of_o these_o ceremony_n be_v justify_v by_o father_n lo_o here_o 3._o or_o 4._o hole_n open_v to_o run_v out_o at_o at_o first_o that_o albeit_o caluyn_n confess_v these_o ceremony_n to_o be_v very_o ancient_a and_o that_o the_o foresay_a old_a father_n and_o doctor_n do_v mention_v they_o in_o their_o write_n yet_o do_v they_o not_o mention_v the_o use_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a church_n before_o their_o day_n be_v not_o this_o a_o pretty_a shift_n as_o though_o themselves_o be_v not_o sufficient_a witness_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n the_o second_o be_v that_o albeit_o the_o father_n though_o dispersedly_z as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v mention_v these_o ceremony_n as_o use_v in_o the_o church_n in_o their_o day_n yet_o do_v they_o not_o set_v they_o down_o altogether_o in_o one_o place_n and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o more_o silly_a shift_n as_o though_o the_o father_n testimony_n of_o they_o in_o several_a be_v nothing_o except_o they_o do_v set_v they_o down_o altogether_o by_o which_o reason_n the_o evangelist_n themselves_o may_v be_v reject_v for_o that_o they_o put_v not_o down_o all_o thing_n together_o but_o many_o dispersedly_z as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v to_o treat_v of_o they_o the_o three_o be_v that_o albeit_o these_o ceremony_n be_v in_o use_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n yet_o not_o in_o the_o same_o particular_a sign_n and_o form_n of_o word_n as_o they_o be_v use_v now_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o so_o he_o have_v a_o little_a after_o that_o if_o we_o will_v be_v obstinate_a we_o must_v prove_v that_o the_o father_n pray_v in_o consecratinge_a light_n or_o use_v the_o same_o word_n in_o hallowinge_v water_n &_o salt_n which_o be_v now_o set_v down_o in_o the_o roman_a missal_n &_o by_o these_o &_o other_o like_a shift_n which_o for_o brevitye_n sake_n i_o omit_v he_o put_v of_o all_o that_o can_v be_v lay_v against_o he_o and_o it_o be_v as_o good_a a_o manner_n of_o answer_v as_o a_o merry_a good_a fellow_n be_v say_v to_o have_v use_v at_o oxford_n oxford_n in_o a_o visitation_n to_o avoid_v the_o punishment_n for_o the_o breach_n of_o certain_a statute_n of_o his_o college_n in_o the_o begin_v of_o the_o late_a queen_n reign_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o the_o statute_n be_v urge_v against_o he_o which_o do_v forbid_v scholar_n upon_o pain_n of_o expulsion_n to_o come_v in_o or_o go_v out_o over_o the_o wall_n he_o answer_v that_o be_v true_a when_o the_o gate_n be_v open_a and_o then_o be_v urge_v by_o another_o statute_n forbiddinge_a under_o the_o same_o pain_n to_o bear_v any_o weapon_n he_o answer_v that_o bear_v be_v understand_v in_o man_n hand_n but_o not_o as_o hang_v at_o their_o girdill_n and_o by_o these_o mean_n be_v he_o able_a to_o answer_v full_o all_o objection_n make_v against_o he_o for_o breach_n of_o statute_n and_o so_o be_v sutcliffe_n for_o falsifyinge_v of_o father_n by_o the_o like_a manner_n of_o answer_v and_o this_o shall_v suffice_v for_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o end_n whereof_o notwithstanding_o he_o return_v again_o to_o caluyn_n as_o be_v more_o trouble_v with_o his_o authority_n than_o all_o the_o other_o father_n bring_v against_o he_o master_n caluyn_n say_v he_o do_v not_o affirm_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o my_o word_n 5._o for_o albeit_o he_o say_v that_o he_o know_v how_o ancient_a some_o of_o these_o ceremony_n be_v which_o i_o deny_v to_o have_v be_v use_v in_o the_o first_o church_n yet_o do_v he_o not_o express_v how_o ancient_a they_o be_v nor_o speak_v any_o thing_n of_o their_o several_a form_n etc._n etc._n lo_o shiftinge_n &_o shufflinge_v upon_o caluyn_n also_o he_o do_v grant_v they_o be_v ancient_a but_o do_v not_o tell_v how_o ancient_a and_o sutcliffe_n say_v before_o that_o they_o be_v not_o practise_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n and_o now_o he_o say_v that_o he_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v use_v in_o the_o first_o church_n and_o though_o three_o you_o shall_v prove_v that_o they_o be_v use_v as_o caluyn_n say_v in_o the_o ancient_a church_n yet_o will_v he_o say_v that_o caluyn_n do_v not_o affirm_v they_o to_o have_v be_v in_o the_o first_o church_n of_o all_o nor_o do_v he_o specify_v the_o particular_a form_n of_o word_n now_o use_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o so_o will_v he_o escape_v out_o that_o way_n but_o now_o i_o will_v ask_v the_o discreett_a reader_n in_o good_a sadness_n what_o scripture_n what_o father_n what_o most_o evident_a truth_n may_v not_o be_v shift_v of_o and_o delude_v by_o these_o kind_n of_o illusion_n let_v the_o reader_n but_o look_n over_o the_o six_o chapter_n of_o ceremony_n 6._o in_o the_o 2._o 3._o 4._o and_o five_o centurye_n of_o the_o magdeburgian_o and_o he_o shall_v see_v the_o antiquity_n of_o all_o these_o point_n against_o sutcliffe_n in_o this_o place_n the_o second_o place_n object_v by_o e._n o._n to_o o._n e._n be_v in_o the_o same_o page_n where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v no_o catholic_a doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n place_n to_o denounce_v they_o accurse_v that_o shall_v not_o hold_v baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n be_v these_o in_o the_o four_o canon_n concern_v baptism_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la dixerit_fw-la baptismum_fw-la liberum_fw-la esse_fw-la 5._o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la necessarium_fw-la ad_fw-la salutem_fw-la anathema_n sit_v if_o any_o man_n do_v affirm_v that_o baptism_n be_v free_a that_o be_v to_o say_v not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n let_v he_o be_v accurse_v and_o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v re_fw-mi well_fw-mi voto_fw-la as_o general_o all_o catholic_a divine_n do_v expound_v to_o wit_n that_o a_o man_n be_v either_o real_o or_o actual_o baptize_v or_o at_o least_o wise_a have_v a_o desire_n thereof_o which_o desire_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o they_o that_o have_v year_n of_o understand_v and_o be_v let_v otherwise_o by_o some_o extrinsical_a mean_n from_o actual_a receavinge_v the_o same_o and_o what_o christian_a man_n will_v reprehend_v this_o doctrine_n or_o call_v it_o uncatholike_a as_o sutcliffe_n do_v e._n o._n assault_v he_o with_o three_o sort_n of_o weapon_n as_o himself_o confess_v first_o the_o authority_n of_o ancient_a father_n that_o affirm_v baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n second_o the_o word_n of_o their_o own_o communion_n book_n where_o talk_v of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n they_o say_v that_o none_o be_v save_v that_o be_v not_o regenerate_v by_o water_n three_o out_o of_o his_o own_o word_n diverse_a time_n repeat_v in_o other_o place_n upon_o other_o occasion_n where_o he_o say_v that_o child_n by_o baptism_n be_v receive_v into_o the_o ark_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n and_o again_o that_o want_n of_o baptism_n send_v infant_n to_o hell_n fire_n whereof_o his_o adversary_n infer_v ergo_fw-la it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o that_o neither_o out_o of_o the_o ark_n nor_o in_o hell_n fire_n can_v they_o be_v save_v which_o be_v the_o same_o doctrine_n that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v teach_v and_o add_v a_o curse_n to_o they_o that_o deny_v it_o and_o these_o be_v the_o charge_v give_v now_o let_v we_o see_v how_o sutcliffe_n seek_v to_o run_v out_o of_o the_o list_n first_o he_o stand_v much_o upon_o the_o word_n let_v they_o be_v accurse_v and_o will_v we_o to_o show_v out_o of_o the_o father_n that_o they_o do_v use_v the_o word_n accurse_v 5._o neither_o do_v any_o father_n say_v he_o affirm_v that_o such_o be_v accurse_v that_o hold_v not_o baptism_n to_o be_v necessary_a be_v not_o this_o a_o egregious_a foolery_n as_o though_o the_o controversy_n be_v of_o the_o word_n accurse_v &_o not_o of_o the_o doctrine_n it_o self_n see_v that_o sutcliffes_n own_o word_n in_o his_o accusation_n be_v shift_n which_o doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n do_v not_o say_v he_o appear_v to_o be_v catholic_a and_o yet_o now_o will_v he_o hide_v himself_o under_o the_o word_n accurse_v as_o though_o the_o controversy_n be_v not_o about_o the_o doctrine_n but_o about_o the_o word_n and_o yet_o of_o we_o will_v stand_v also_o upon_o the_o curse_n sutcliffe_n can_v so_o escape_v but_o must_v undergo_v the_o say_a curse_n in_o like_a manner_n for_o he_o shall_v find_v the_o same_o both_o condemn_a and_o accurse_a express_o in_o the_o counsel_n of_o carthage_n and_o milivitanum_fw-la at_o which_o