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father_n worthy_a writer_n year_n 32 3 4.1296 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A20770 A treatise of the true nature and definition of justifying faith together with a defence of the same, against the answere of N. Baxter. By Iohn Downe B. in Divinity, and sometime fellow of Emanuel C. in Cambridge.; Selections Downe, John, 1570?-1631.; Baxter, Nathaniel, fl. 1606.; Bayly, Mr., fl. 1635.; Muret, Marc-Antoine, 1526-1585. Institutio puerilis. English. 1635 (1635) STC 7153; ESTC S109816 240,136 421

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3.5_o sir_n it_o be_v reason_n i_o shall_v pull_v off_o my_o shoe_n and_o come_v barefoot_a to_o these_o mountain_n because_o the_o ground_n on_o which_o i_o be_v to_o stand_v be_v holy_a nevertheless_o in_o this_o encounter_n with_o you_o i_o trust_v you_o shall_v find_v my_o foot_n so_o well_o sh●●_n with_o the_o preparation_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o peace_n 6.15_o ephes_n 6.15_o that_o i_o need_v not_o care_v what_o brier_n or_o thorn_n soever_o you_o plant_v in_o my_o way_n and_o therefore_o good_a leave_n have_v you_o sift_v my_o argument_n in_o god_n name_n at_o your_o pleasure_n for_o to_o that_o very_a end_n send_v i_o they_o you_o in_o writing_n but_o i_o be_o afraid_a lest_o instead_o of_o sift_v i_o find_v from_o you_o nothing_o else_o but_o mere_a shift_a as_o indeed_o i_o do_v not_o for_o to_o some_o of_o my_o argument_n you_o shape_v no_o answer_n at_o all_o some_o you_o unshape_v and_o turn_v clean_o out_o of_o the_o form_n i_o set_v upon_o they_o to_o not_o one_o of_o 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withal_o who_o while_o you_o hazard_v yourself_o in_o the_o forlorn_a hope_n wise_o provide_v for_o their_o own_o security_n in_o the_o reerward_o and_o as_o the_o turk_n use_v to_o marshal_v the_o base_a of_o his_o nation_n in_o the_o front_n of_o the_o battle_n that_o the_o enemy_n arm_n be_v weary_v &_o sword_n blunt_v upon_o they_o his_o ●a●j●ars_n may_v find_v the_o less_o danger_n and_o ●esistance_n so_o these_o i_o think_v be_v not_o unwilling_a that_o you_o with_o your_o wrangle_v a_o while_n cumber_v and_o annoy_v i_o that_o have_v spend_v my_o strength_n upon_o you_o i_o shall_v not_o be_v able_a to_o endure_v the_o force_n of_o their_o second_o charge_n but_o unto_o 〈◊〉_d ●●ish_a policy_n i_o oppose_v the_o old_a roman_a wisdom_n ●1_n veget._n l._n 1._o c._n ●1_n and_o as_o th●●_n exercise_v their_o young_a soldier_n to_o skirmish_n and_o 〈…〉_o martial_a activity_n against_o a_o post_n prepare_v 〈…〉_o ●hereby_o with_o more_o readiness_n and_o skill_n to_o encounter_v a_o 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one_o can_v better_v i_o the_o other_o can_v disparage_v i_o nevertheless_o if_o you_o can_v plain_o and_o direct_o show_v that_o like_o another_o ixion_n embrace_v a_o cloud_n instead_o of_o juno_n i_o mean_v my_o own_o fancy_n instead_o of_o god_n truth_n i_o have_v beget_v thereupon_o these_o monster_n as_o you_o term_v they_o of_o opinion_n i_o will_v as_o you_o wish_v i_o speedy_o snetch_v they_o 137.9_o psal_n 137.9_o and_o dash_v their_o head_n against_o the_o stone_n that_o they_o grow_v not_o up_o to_o the_o strength_n and_o stature_n of_o giant_n to_o the_o further_a danger_n and_o disturbance_n of_o the_o church_n but_o till_o then_o pardon_v i_o if_o i_o neither_o snetch_v they_o 2.2_o 1_o pet._n 2.2_o nor_o fear_v blemish_n by_o they_o nay_o if_o as_o the_o bless_a offspring_n of_o celestial_a verity_n i_o still_o feed_v and_o cherish_v they_o with_o the_o sincere_a milk_n of_o the_o word_n that_o they_o may_v grow_v thereby_o to_o the_o further_o comfort_v of_o distress_a 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patience_n set_v again_o before_o he_o these_o colewort_n now_o more_o than_o twice_o sodden_a for_o both_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o disputation_n and_o in_o the_o last_o section_n save_o two_o before_o this_o i_o have_v thorough_o scan_v &_o clear_v this_o business_n show_v that_o i_o be_o so_o far_o from_o teach_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o speak_v and_o the_o church_n to_o understand_v what_o faith_n be_v as_o you_o unchristianly_a lay_n unto_o my_o charge_n that_o i_o use_v no_o other_o term_n but_o that_o which_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n have_v in_o scripture_n sanctify_v to_o this_o purpose_n and_o the_o holy_a church_n have_v ever_o speak_v and_o use_v but_o because_o i_o be_o loath_a to_o pester_v my_o paper_n with_o so_o many_o tautology_n and_o needle_n repetition_n as_o you_o use_v to_o do_v thither_o must_v i_o entreat_v the_o courteous_a reader_n to_o repair_v for_o satisfaction_n in_o the_o mean_a season_n see_v both_o by_o express_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n and_o clear_a evidence_n of_o reason_n i_o have_v warrant_v every_o part_n of_o my_o definition_n and_o yet_o you_o without_o disprove_v the_o weak_a of_o my_o proof_n taunt_o call_v it_o a_o wooden_a definition_n you_o must_v pardon_v i_o if_o i_o tell_v you_o plain_o that_o this_o wood-kinde_n of_o answer_v deserve_v to_o be_v reform_v with_o a_o little_a wooden_a correction_n but_o where_o you_o say_v my_o definition_n may_v rather_o move_v to_o choler_n then_o consent_n a_o man_n will_v think_v read_v this_o your_o answer_n that_o either_o your_o principle_n be_v so_o incurable_o hurt_v or_o your_o brain_n damn_v and_o ram_v up_o with_o such_o a_o deal_n of_o dull_a and_o tough_a phlegm_n that_o it_o be_v as_o easy_a almost_o to_o remove_v a_o mountain_n as_o to_o move_v you_o either_o to_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o and_o yet_o indeed_o i_o find_v you_o of_o a_o clean_a contrary_a complexion_n even_o the_o most_o pettish_a and_o waspish_a gentleman_n that_o ever_o i_o meet_v withal_o every_o small_a &_o petty_a occasion_n stir_v your_o choler_n and_o work_v you_o present_o out_o of_o temper_n but_o because_o i_o see_v it_o be_v your_o impotency_n &_o disease_n i_o bear_v with_o you_o the_o more_o pray_v you_o notwithstanding_o to_o have_v as_o much_o patience_n as_o you_o may_v if_o at_o time_n for_o the_o purge_n of_o this_o humour_n i_o play_v the_o physician_n and_o minister_v some_o small_a quantity_n of_o rheubarb_n unto_o you_o n._n b._n for_o alas_o master_n down_o what_o rest_n can_v a_o man_n have_v upon_o christ_n without_o assurance_n to_o be_v save_v by_o his_o death_n and_o passion_n and_o knowledge_n of_o his_o lord_n and_o saviour_n a_o full_a assurance_n therefore_o as_o a_o cause_n work_v rest_n upon_o christ_n as_o a_o effect_n and_o be_v therefore_o the_o general_n word_n in_o the_o definition_n of_o justify_v faith_n i._o d._n your_o argument_n if_o i_o mistake_v not_o stand_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v a_o effect_n of_o assurance_n can_v be_v the_o act_n of_o faith_n but_o rest_a upon_o christ_n be_v a_o effect_n of_o assurance_n ergo_fw-la it_o can_v be_v the_o act_n of_o faith_n i_o distinguish_v of_o assurance_n for_o it_o be_v either_o of_o the_o general_a proposition_n or_o of_o the_o special_a and_o individual_a of_o the_o general_n when_o we_o be_v assure_v that_o whosoever_o believe_v on_o christ_n shall_v be_v justify_v and_o save_v of_o the_o special_a when_o we_o be_v certain_o persuade_v that_o we_o be_v justify_v and_o shall_v be_v save_v if_o you_o mean_v the_o former_a than_o i_o deny_v the_o mayor_n for_o such_o historical_a assurance_n be_v a_o necessary_a pre-requisite_a unto_o justify_v faith_n and_o be_v the_o cause_n without_o which_o we_o can_v believe_v on_o christ_n and_o therefore_o that_o which_o be_v such_o a_o effect_n of_o assurance_n may_v be_v the_o act_n of_o faith_n if_o you_o understand_v the_o latter_a then_o do_v i_o grant_v the_o mayor_n for_o if_o such_o assurance_n be_v as_o i_o have_v demonstrative_o prove_v itself_o the_o effect_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v more_o than_o manifest_a that_o that_o which_o be_v a_o effect_n of_o such_o assurance_n can_v be_v the_o act_n of_o faith_n but_o then_o i_o deny_v the_o minor_a that_o rest_a upon_o christ_n be_v a_o effect_n of_o such_o assurance_n affirm_v that_o contrary_o rest_a upon_o christ_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o such_o assurance_n and_o assurance_n be_v the_o effect_n of_o that_o rest_a but_o what_o rest_n say_v you_o can_v a_o man_n have_v upon_o christ_n without_o assurance_n to_o be_v save_v by_o his_o death_n &_o passion_n sure_o unless_o we_o know_v his_o death_n and_o passion_n to_o be_v the_o only_a mean_n of_o salvation_n we_o can_v rest_v upon_o he_o for_o it_o but_o to_o
work_v eternal_a rest_n and_o peace_n but_o how_o do_v this_o follow_n faith_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o eternal_a quiet_a and_o rest_v from_o our_o labour_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o affiance_n and_o rest_a upon_o christ_n here_o in_o this_o life_n for_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a that_o that_o which_o cause_v the_o one_o shall_v also_o cause_v the_o other_o but_o if_o in_o your_o conclusion_n when_o you_o say_v faith_n be_v not_o a_o rest_n you_o mean_v it_o be_v not_o that_o eternal_a rest_n what_o be_v that_o to_o i_o who_o define_v not_o faith_n by_o such_o a_o rest_n so_o then_o your_o therefore_o either_o conclude_v beside_o the_o question_n or_o be_v infer_v upon_o no_o premise_n deserve_v of_o i_o no_o answer_n at_o all_o yet_o to_o take_v away_o all_o scruple_n let_v we_o see_v what_o may_v be_v say_v for_o it_o bellarmine_n to_o prove_v that_o affiance_n be_v a_o effect_n of_o faith_n 6._o de_fw-fr iustif_a lib._n 1._o cap._n 6._o and_o consequent_o not_o faith_n allege_v and_o urge_v three_o passage_n of_o scripture_n but_o withal_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o that_o if_o he_o dispute_v to_o the_o purpose_n he_o must_v mean_v by_o affiance_n no_o other_o then_o confident_a persuasion_n or_o assurance_n for_o his_o adversary_n as_o himself_o there_o say_v define_v faith_n by_o affiance_n understand_v thereby_o that_o special_a faith_n whereby_o every_o one_o apply_v to_o himself_o the_o divine_a promise_n believe_v or_o rather_o confident_o trust_v that_o all_o his_o sin_n be_v forgive_v he_o by_o christ_n so_o that_o if_o as_o he_o ought_v he_o argue_v unto_o the_o meaning_n of_o his_o adversary_n he_o conclude_v not_o against_o my_o affiance_n but_o only_o against_o your_o persuasion_n or_o assurance_n nevertheless_o let_v we_o examine_v those_o place_n several_o and_o particular_o the_o first_o be_v that_o of_o the_o apostle_n to_o the_o ephesian_n 3.12_o eph._n 3.12_o in_o who_o we_o have_v boldness_n and_o entrance_n with_o confidence_n by_o the_o faith_n of_o he_o whence_o it_o follow_v say_v he_o if_o confidence_n or_o affiance_n be_v by_o faith_n that_o faith_n be_v not_o affiance_n but_o the_o cause_n thereof_o for_o otherwise_o the_o sense_n will_v be_v we_o have_v entrance_n with_o confidence_n by_o confidence_n which_o be_v absurd_a to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o confidence_n oftentimes_o signify_v persuasion_n or_o assurance_n be_v derive_v of_o a_o verb_n that_o signify_v firm_o to_o be_v persuade_v as_o where_o the_o apostle_n say_v 2.19_o rom._n 2.19_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d thou_o strong_o persuade_v thyself_o that_o thou_o be_v a_o guide_n of_o the_o blind_a 1.25_o phil._n 1.25_o and_o again_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o be_o i_o well_o assure_v of_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a here_o to_o understand_v it_o of_o my_o affiance_n second_o grant_v that_o by_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o affiance_n be_v mean_v yet_o do_v it_o not_o follow_v that_o it_o be_v a_o effect_n of_o justify_v faith_n see_v by_o faith_n not_o justify_v but_o historical_a faith_n may_v be_v understand_v which_o be_v the_o mean_n by_o which_o we_o grow_v unto_o affiance_n last_o let_v it_o be_v far_o yield_v that_o both_o by_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d affiance_n and_o by_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d justify_v faith_n be_v mean_v yet_o may_v affiance_n this_o notwithstanding_o be_v that_o faith_n neither_o will_v any_o such_o absurdity_n ensue_v thereon_o for_o as_o when_o you_o say_v we_o be_v assure_v by_o faith_n you_o will_v think_v yourself_o wrong_v if_o i_o shall_v infer_v thereupon_o that_o faith_n be_v not_o assurance_n but_o the_o cause_n thereof_o or_o that_o otherwise_o the_o sense_n will_v be_v we_o be_v assure_v by_o assurance_n so_o when_o the_o apostle_n say_v in_o affiance_n by_o faith_n why_o shall_v he_o not_o also_o count_v himself_o as_o much_o abuse_v if_o you_o gather_v from_o hence_o that_o faith_n be_v not_o affiance_n but_o the_o cause_n thereof_o or_o that_o else_o the_o speech_n will_v be_v absurd_a as_o if_o he_o shall_v say_v in_o affiance_n by_o affiance_n the_o reason_n of_o all_o in_o a_o word_n be_v because_o this_o form_n of_o word_n may_v import_v that_o affiance_n be_v the_o next_o and_o immediate_a act_n of_o justify_v faith_n the_o second_o place_n be_v that_o say_n of_o our_o saviour_n unto_o the_o woman_n disease_v with_o a_o issue_n of_o blood_n 9.22_o mat._n 9.22_o be_v confident_a daughter_n thy_o faith_n have_v save_v thou_o where_o say_v he_o faith_n be_v again_o in_o like_a sort_n distinguish_v from_o affiance_n for_o the_o woman_n be_v move_v to_o conceive_v and_o entertain_v affiance_n who_o be_v already_o heal_v by_o faith_n to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o word_n which_o our_o saviour_n use_v to_o the_o woman_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v to_o be_v bold_a or_o courageous_a whence_o come_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d boldness_n courage_n 317.4_o exerc._n 317.4_o which_o as_o julius_n scaliger_n say_v be_v the_o motion_n of_o fortitude_n unto_o some_o work_n and_o be_v oppose_v unto_o timorousness_n or_o fearfulness_n neither_o be_v it_o without_o special_a reason_n that_o our_o saviour_n choose_v that_o word_n rather_o than_o any_o other_o for_o find_v that_o virtue_n proceed_v from_o he_o and_o demand_v who_o have_v touch_v he_o 8.47_o luc._n 8.47_o the_o woman_n see_v that_o she_o can_v conceal_v it_o come_v unto_o he_o tremble_v and_o fall_v at_o his_o foot_n and_o declare_v what_o she_o have_v do_v whereupon_o he_o say_v unto_o she_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d tremble_v not_o daughter_n nor_o be_v dismay_v but_o cheer_v up_o and_o be_v of_o good_a courage_n for_o i_o assure_v thou_o thy_o faith_n have_v save_v thou_o go_v thy_o way_n in_o peace_n now_o this_o boldness_n or_o courage_n i_o confess_v be_v a_o effect_n of_o faith_n nay_o oftentimes_o a_o effect_n of_o the_o effect_n of_o faith_n namely_o hope_v for_o as_o despair_n of_o victory_n cause_v fearfulness_n and_o dejection_n of_o spirit_n so_o contrariwise_o hope_v of_o victory_n make_v a_o man_n to_o be_v bold_a and_o confident_a but_o unless_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o this_o boldness_n be_v the_o same_o with_o my_o affiance_n which_o with_o all_o your_o skill_n you_o can_v never_o do_v they_o be_v of_o so_o different_a nature_n you_o can_v never_o conclude_v from_o hence_o that_o affiance_n be_v a_o effect_n of_o faith_n the_o three_o and_o last_o place_n be_v that_o of_o the_o same_o apostle_n unto_o timothy_n they_o which_o minister_v well_o shall_v get_v unto_o themselves_o a_o good_a degree_n and_o much_o affiance_n in_o the_o faith_n which_o be_v in_o christ_n where_o say_v he_o 3.13_o 1_o tim._n 3.13_o affiance_n be_v say_v to_o be_v acquire_v and_o get_v by_o faith_n because_o faith_n may_v be_v without_o such_o affiance_n whereunto_o i_o answer_v that_o the_o word_n use_v in_o the_o original_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o no_o way_n signify_v affiance_n but_o liberty_n and_o freedom_n of_o speech_n whether_o we_o utter_v our_o mind_n unto_o god_n by_o prayer_n as_o where_o the_o apostle_n say_v 4.16_o heb._n 4.16_o let_v we_o come_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d with_o boldness_n and_o freedom_n of_o speech_n unto_o the_o throne_n of_o grace_n or_o make_v profession_n of_o our_o faith_n before_o man_n as_o where_o the_o same_o apostle_n say_v cast_v not_o away_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d your_o free_a profession_n 10.35_o heb._n 10.35_o as_o beza_n translate_v it_o and_o because_o this_o liberty_n and_o freedom_n proceed_v from_o the_o testimony_n of_o a_o good_a conscience_n and_o assurance_n of_o the_o love_n and_o favour_n of_o god_n 3.6_o heb._n 3.6_o therefore_o be_v it_o sometime_o use_v for_o assurance_n as_o where_o the_o apostle_n say_v who_o house_n we_o be_v if_o we_o hold_v fast_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o confidence_n and_o rejoice_v of_o hope_n unto_o the_o end_n mean_v by_o confidence_n say_v beza_n that_o most_o worthy_a effect_n of_o faith_n whereby_o we_o cry_v abba_n father_n 28.1_o prou._n 28.1_o and_o sometime_o for_o that_o lion-like_o boldness_n which_o solomon_n say_v always_o attend_v a_o good_a conscience_n and_o so_o do_v the_o same_o beza_n in_o this_o present_a place_n of_o timothy_n understand_v it_o 4.16_o heb._n 3.6_o vide_fw-la annot_fw-mi tremel_n ad_fw-la heb._n 4.16_o and_o hence_o it_o be_v that_o the_o syriac_a oftentimes_o render_v this_o word_n by_o retection_n or_o revelation_n of_o the_o face_n because_o a_o good_a conscience_n lift_v up_o the_o head_n and_o bold_o show_v the_o face_n whereas_o a_o guilty_a mind_n hang_v down_o the_o head_n and_o as_o one_o confound_v and_o ashamed_a dare_v
of_o all_o the_o heavenly_a host_n of_o the_o bless_a spirit_n therein_o whereas_o saint_n paul_n himself_o though_o he_o have_v be_v ravish_v up_o into_o the_o three_o heaven_n even_o into_o the_o paradise_n of_o god_n 12.3.4_o 2_o cor._n 12.3.4_o yet_o return_v back_o neither_o dare_v nor_o do_v utter_v any_o such_o thing_n and_o last_o that_o he_o talken_a so_o familiar_o of_o church_n and_o chancel_v and_o monk_n and_o diverse_a other_o order_n and_o ceremony_n which_o be_v well_o know_v to_o be_v of_o a_o much_o latter_a date_n omit_v i_o say_v these_o and_o the_o like_a objection_n although_o perhaps_o not_o so_o easy_a to_o be_v answer_v consider_v with_o i_o i_o beseech_v you_o these_o few_o reason_n follow_v first_o if_o these_o be_v the_o book_n of_o that_o den●_n which_o be_v saint_n paul_n scholar_n how_o come_v it_o to_o pass_v that_o neither_o eusebius_n in_o his_o ecclesiastical_a history_n nor_o jerome_n nor_o gennad●ui_fw-la purposely_o write_v catalogue_n of_o all_o the_o famous_a writer_n before_o they_o nor_o origen_n nor_o chrysostom_n nor_o any_o ancient_a father_n so_o far_o as_o i_o can_v learn_v make_v any_o mention_n of_o they_o until_o gregory_n the_o great_a who_o live_v about_o 600._o dragm_n hom._n 34._o de_fw-la 10._o dragm_n year_n after_o christ_n and_o speak_v very_o doubtful_o of_o they_o too_o for_o as_o for_o athanasius_n who_o you_o affirm_v to_o quote_v he_o i_o suppose_v you_o mean_v he_o in_o his_o question_n out_o of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n wherein_o he_o cite_v his_o mystica_fw-la theologia_n but_o neither_o be_v this_o book_n of_o denis_n know_v in_o the_o time_n of_o athanasius_n nor_o do_v athanasius_n himself_o write_v that_o 4._o biblioth_n l._n 4._o as_o your_o sixtus_n senensis_n think_v for_o have_v he_o write_v it_o will_v he_o think_v you_o have_v vouch_v his_o own_o authority_n and_o that_o with_o such_o arrogance_n under_o the_o name_n of_o great_a athanasius_n or_o can_v he_o have_v mention_v gregory_n nazianzen_n who_o flourish_v so_o long_o after_o his_o decease_n i_o trow_v no_o yet_o he_o do_v both_o etc._n quest_n 23._o 117._o 129._o act._n 17._o 34._o ib._n 16.3_o etc._n etc._n second_o it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o s._n paul_n be_v the_o man_n that_o convert_v denis_n and_o that_o before_o his_o come_n to_o athens_n timothy_n have_v be_v entertain_v by_o he_o and_o in_o his_o company_n have_v travel_v over_o many_o country_n and_o grow_v so_o intimate_a and_o dear_a unto_o he_o that_o he_o both_o count_v and_o call_v he_o his_o son_n 1.2_o 1_o tim._n 1.2_o &_o 2._o c._n 1.2_o which_o be_v so_o it_o can_v reasonable_o be_v imagine_v that_o the_o true_a denis_n will_v prove_v either_o so_o ungrateful_a or_o so_o presumptuous_a as_o this_o counterfeit_n show_v himself_o to_o be_v ungrateful_a in_o that_o forget_v saint_n paul_n he_o ever_o speak_v of_o one_o hierotheus_n in_o obscure_a man_n in_o comparison_n as_o of_o his_o master_n presumptuous_a for_o that_o as_o if_o he_o be_v a_o father_n to_o timothy_n as_o well_o as_o saint_n paul_n he_o call_v he_o his_o son_n notwithstanding_o he_o be_v far_o more_o fit_a to_o be_v his_o disciple_n three_o 8._o divin_v nom_fw-fr c._n 5._o strom._n l._n 8._o this_o denis_n cit_v clemens_n the_o philosopher_n not_o clemens_n of_o rome_n as_o some_o will_v have_v it_o but_o of_o alexandria_n for_o in_o he_o the_o very_a passage_n quote_v by_o denis_n be_v to_o be_v find_v 4._o devin_n nom_fw-fr c._n 4._o and_o yet_o this_o clemens_n live_v two_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n he_o cit_v also_o these_o word_n out_o of_o ignatius_n my_o love_n be_v crucify_v as_o if_o he_o have_v be_v present_a at_o his_o martyrdom_n memod_n memod_n and_o yet_o the_o true_a dionysius_n suffer_v under_o domitian_n whereas_o ignatius_n both_o write_v his_o epistle_n and_o be_v martyr_v some_o good_a while_n after_o he_o under_o trajan_n he_o further_o cit_v the_o gospel_n and_o revelation_n of_o saint_n john_n as_o if_o they_o have_v a_o long_a time_n be_v parcel_n of_o holy_a scripture_n howbeit_o if_o we_o may_v believe_v history_n both_o those_o book_n be_v write_v but_o a_o little_a before_o saint_n johns_n death_n and_o fourteen_o year_n after_o the_o death_n of_o dionysius_n and_o yet_o again_o in_o a_o epistle_n to_o polycarpus_n he_o speak_v unto_o he_o as_o unto_o a_o reverend_a bishop_n and_o doctor_n nevertheless_o dionysius_n himself_o suffer_v in_o france_n in_o the_o year_n of_o our_o lord_n ninety_o six_o as_o writer_n testify_v but_o polycarpus_n in_o the_o year_n one_o hundred_o sixty_o six_o and_o of_o his_o age_n eighty_o six_o so_o that_o at_o the_o death_n of_o dionysius_n polycarpus_n can_v be_v but_o a_o stripling_n and_o about_o sixteen_o year_n old_a four_o according_a to_o the_o proverb_n the_o rat_n perish_v by_o betray_v himself_o for_o speak_v of_o infant_n and_o why_o they_o be_v baptize_v thus_o he_o say_v 7._o hier._n eccl._n c._n 7._o hereof_o we_o say_v those_o thing_n which_o our_o divine_a master_n be_v instruct_v by_o the_o old_a tradition_n have_v bring_v unto_o us._n in_o which_o word_n ere_o he_o be_v aware_a he_o have_v discover_v that_o nor_o paul_n nor_o any_o other_o of_o the_o apostle_n can_v be_v his_o master_n for_o it_o be_v both_o untrue_a and_o absurd_a to_o say_v that_o the_o holy_a apostle_n be_v instruct_v in_o the_o point_n of_o christian_a baptism_n by_o the_o old_a tradition_n last_o this_o denis_n write_v that_o himself_o together_o with_o timothy_n and_o hierotheus_n be_v present_a at_o the_o departure_n and_o funeral_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n mother_n tim._n ep._n ad_fw-la tim._n now_o story_n say_v that_o she_o live_v threescore_o and_o three_o year_n be_v fifteen_o year_n of_o age_n when_o she_o bear_v christ_n whereunto_o if_o you_o add_v thirty_o three_o year_n of_o christ_n life_n and_o fifteen_o more_o to_o make_v up_o her_o full_a age_n it_o will_v appear_v that_o she_o die_v eight_o and_o forty_o year_n after_o her_o son_n birth_n and_o fifteen_o after_o his_o ascension_n but_o on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o plain_o appear_v that_o denis_n arcopagite_n be_v not_o convert_v unto_o the_o christian_a faith_n till_o the_o eighteen_o year_n after_o the_o ascension_n one_o and_o fifty_o year_n after_o christ_n birth_n our_o divine_n gather_v it_o thus_o the_o scripture_n witness_v that_o saint_n paul_n be_v not_o call_v till_o christ_n be_v ascend_v 16.1_o reinold_n in_o conc._n 8._o d._n 2._o act._n 9.5_o gal._n 1.18_o act._n 9.26_o gal._n 1.21_o act._n 13.4_o gal._n 2.1_o act._n 15.4_o act._n 16.1_o be_v call_v he_o stay_v three_o year_n in_o damascus_n and_o arabia_n before_o he_o come_v to_o jerusalem_n thence_o he_o go_v into_o the_o coast_n of_o syria_n and_o cilicia_n and_o the_o country_n thereabouts_o and_o fourteen_o year_n after_o he_o come_v to_o jerusalem_n again_o with_o barnabas_n to_o the_o council_n from_o the_o council_n he_o go_v to_o derbe_n and_o lystra_n where_o he_o receive_v timothy_n and_o have_v travel_v through_o phrygia_n galatia_n mysia_n macedonia_n he_o come_v at_o last_o to_o athens_n 17.34_o act._n 17.34_o where_o he_o convert_v denys_n so_o that_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v about_o eighteen_o or_o at_o the_o least_o seventeen_fw-mi year_n after_o christ_n ascension_n before_o saint_n denys_n know_v christ_n all_o which_o due_o consider_v it_o be_v evident_a that_o the_o bless_a virgin_n die_v if_o not_o three_o full_a year_n yet_o more_o than_o two_o before_o the_o conversion_n of_o denys_n and_o consequent_o that_o he_o can_v not_o be_v one_o of_o those_o brethren_n who_o be_v present_a at_o her_o death_n and_o funeral_n whence_o also_o it_o follow_v inevitable_o that_o the_o author_n of_o that_o book_n can_v possible_o be_v this_o denys_n this_o argument_n be_v press_v by_o that_o renown_a reinolds_n upon_o john_n hart_n 2._o confer_v c._n 8._o d._n 2._o he_o confess_v ingenuous_o that_o he_o know_v not_o how_o to_o accord_v it_o and_o these_o or_o the_o like_a reason_n have_v so_o prevail_v with_o sundry_a of_o your_o own_o side_n that_o they_o have_v be_v force_v some_o to_o doubt_n of_o he_o other_o utter_o to_o disclaim_v he_o from_o be_v the_o true_a denys_n aphrod_n praef._n in_o probl._n alex._n aphrod_n theodorus_n caza_n affirm_v those_o book_n of_o the_o hierarchy_n to_o be_v none_o of_o denys_n the_o athenian_n ibid._n in_o act._n 17._o ibid._n erasmus_n also_o profess_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n and_o laurentius_n valla_n say_v that_o the_o learnede_a man_n of_o his_o time_n entitle_v one_o apollinarius_n unto_o they_o cardinal_n cajetan_n not_o only_o say_v it_o 17._o in_o act._n 17._o but_o also_o show_v how_o unlikely_a it_o be_v that_o he_o who_o write_v of_o the_o name_n of_o god_n and_o of_o the_o heavenly_a and_o
fo●_n 〈◊〉_d second_o question_n i_o think_v you_o will_v confess_v pardon_n ●ee_n if_o i_o think_v amiss_o that_o you_o have_v not_o skill_n enough_o with_o understanding_n to_o read_v the_o greek_a father_n in_o their_o original_a but_o be_v fain_o to_o trust_v unto_o translation_n but_o i_o beseech_v you_o do_v not_o translator_n many_o time_n what_o through_o ignorance_n or_o neglicence_n or_o wilfulness_n mistake_v and_o pervert_v the_o meaning_n of_o their_o author_n 1._o l._n 2._o c._n 1._o ruffinus_n translate_v the_o ecclesiastical_a history_n of_o eusebius_n and_o in_o it_o this_o passage_n of_o clemens_n that_o peter_n james_n and_o john_n although_o christ_n prefer_v they_o almost_o before_o all_o yet_o they_o take_v not_o the_o honour_n of_o primacy_n to_o themselves_o but_o ordain_v james_n who_o be_v surname_v just_a bishop_n of_o the_o apostle_n a_o shrewd_a testimony_n for_o the_o primacy_n of_o james_n against_o that_o of_o peter_n but_o the_o error_n be_v in_o the_o translation_n the_o greek_a eusebius_n have_v not_o bishop_n of_o the_o apostle_n but_o bishop_n of_o jerusalem_n yet_o marianus_n scotus_n cit_v the_o same_o out_o of_o methodius_n just_a according_a to_o ruffian_n translation_n from_o whence_o perhaps_o it_o be_v take_v 23._o hist_o l._n 2._o c._n 23._o eusebius_n himself_o in_o express_a term_n affirm_v the_o epistle_n of_o s._n james_n to_o be_v spurious_a but_o your_o chrystopherson_n render_v it_o so_o as_o if_o he_o have_v mean_v that_o not_o himself_o but_o some_o other_o in_o the_o church_n have_v so_o esteem_v it_o in_o former_a time_n and_o last_o not_o to_o stand_v long_o upon_o this_o point_n that_o very_a translation_n of_o cyrillus_n alexandrinus_n which_o you_o have_v make_v by_o trapezuntius_fw-la you_o have_v little_a reason_n much_o to_o trust_v unto_o for_o as_o bonaventura_n vulcanius_n show_v ann._n praef._n &_o ann._n it_o be_v a_o very_a disorderly_a one_o wherein_o many_o thing_n be_v omit_v much_o be_v add_v of_o his_o own_o and_o much_o perverse_o translate_v to_o conclude_v therefore_o see_v the_o writing_n of_o the_o father_n have_v so_o many_o way_n and_o so_o notorious_o be_v abuse_v by_o addition_n by_o subtraction_n by_o alteration_n by_o misquotation_n by_o mistranslation_n it_o follow_v that_o infallible_a certainty_n from_o they_o you_o can_v have_v none_o and_o so_o consequent_o that_o you_o can_v safe_o build_v your_o faith_n upon_o they_o to_o proceed_v the_o scripture_n you_o say_v be_v obscure_a and_o ambiguous_a and_o therefore_o you_o may_v not_o rest_v upon_o they_o save_v only_o as_o they_o be_v expound_v of_o the_o father_n if_o so_o then_o if_o the_o father_n also_o be_v obscure_a and_o ambiguous_a neither_o may_v you_o rest_v your_o faith_n upon_o they_o now_o certain_o the_o father_n be_v as_o dark_a and_o doubtful_a as_o the_o scripture_n if_o you_o think_v otherwise_o do_v but_o read_v the_o work_n of_o tertullian_n and_o arnobius_n and_o let_v i_o afterward_o know_v your_o mind_n for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v no_o reason_n why_o the_o scripture_n shall_v be_v more_o subject_a to_o diversity_n of_o interpretation_n according_a to_o the_o difference_n of_o time_n as_o cardinal_a cusan_a impious_o affirm_v 45._o ep._n 2._o &_o 7._o cont._n whit._n l._n 2._o p._n 45._o and_o duraeus_n the_o jesuit_n impudent_o defend_v then_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o father_n what_o do_v we_o not_o vouch_v the_o father_n on_o both_o side_n be_v we_o not_o as_o confident_a upon_o they_o as_o you_o whence_o come_v this_o i_o beseech_v you_o if_o they_o be_v so_o clear_a that_o no_o doubt_n can_v be_v make_v of_o they_o and_o why_o do_v you_o profess_v in_o your_o flemish_a expurgatorie_n index_n that_o in_o ancient_a catholic_a writer_n you_o tolerate_v many_o error_n you_o extenuate_v and_o excuse_v they_o and_o often_o deny_v they_o by_o devise_v some_o shift_n and_o feign_v a_o sense_n unto_o they_o when_o they_o be_v oppose_v against_o you_o what_o need_v i_o say_v all_o these_o trick_n and_o fetch_n if_o there_o be_v no_o obscurity_n in_o they_o if_o literal_a and_o grammatical_a construction_n may_v carry_v it_o the_o father_n be_v direct_o we_o and_o we_o suppose_v they_o mean_v as_o they_o write_v neither_o can_v you_o make_v any_o show_n of_o answer_n unless_o you_o fall_v to_o expound_v the_o meaning_n of_o they_o and_o so_o as_o you_o remove_v your_o faith_n from_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o scripture_n unto_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o father_n so_o must_v you_o of_o force_n remove_v the_o same_o again_o from_o the_o letter_n of_o the_o father_n unto_o some_o other_o tribunal_n to_o determine_v the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n thereof_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o declare_v this_o by_o some_o few_o example_n that_o faith_n only_o justify_v origen_n cyprian_n eusebius_n caesariensis_n hilary_n basil_n chrysostome_n ambrose_n augustin_n cyril_n primasius_n hesychius_n gennadius_n oecumenius_n in_o express_a term_n affirm_v agree_v therein_o with_o we_o who_o word_n i_o will_v not_o fail_v to_o produce_v whensoever_o you_o shall_v require_v against_o have_v of_o image_n in_o church_n and_o the_o adoration_n of_o they_o we_o have_v the_o precise_a word_n not_o only_o of_o lactantius_n and_o epiphanius_n and_o other_o father_n several_o hicrosol_n epist_n ad_fw-la joh._n hicrosol_n but_o nineteen_o bishop_n together_o in_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n and_o of_o the_o whole_a council_n of_o frankford_n under_o charles_n the_o great_a against_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n supremacy_n we_o have_v the_o plain_a resolution_n of_o pope_n gregory_n 30._o lib._n 6._o ep_n 30._o that_o he_o be_v the_o forerunner_n of_o antichrist_n whosoever_o desire_v to_o be_v call_v universal_a bishop_n and_o of_o the_o general_n council_n of_o chalcedon_n 16._o act._n 16._o give_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o constantinople_n equal_a privilege_n with_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o of_o two_o hundred_o &_o seventeen_o bishop_n in_o the_o sixth_o council_n of_o carthage_n among_o who_o be_v saint_n augustin_n prosper_n gresians_n and_o many_o other_o worthy_a father_n all_o decree_a that_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n thenceforward_o shall_v have_v no_o authority_n over_o the_o african_a church_n final_o against_o transubstantiation_n thus_o write_v gelasius_n himself_o a_o bishop_n of_o rome_n eu●ych_n de_fw-fr d●ab_n nat_n con_fw-mi eu●ych_n the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o we_o receive_v be_v a_o divine_a thing_n wherefore_o by_o they_o we_o be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n and_o yet_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n cease_v not_o to_o be_v thus_o also_o theodoret_n 1_o dial._n 1_o he_o who_o have_v call_v meat_n and_o drink_n that_o which_o natural_o be_v his_o body_n and_o after_o call_v himself_o a_o vine_n he_o himself_o have_v honour_v the_o visible_a sign_n with_o the_o name_n of_o his_o body_n and_o blood_n have_v not_o change_v their_o nature_n but_o have_v add_v grace_n unto_o nature_n and_o again_o 10._o dial._n 10._o the_o sign_n mystical_a change_v not_o their_o nature_n after_o consecration_n for_o they_o remain_v in_o their_o first_o substance_n figure_n and_o form_n 11._o hom._n 11._o chysostom_n likewise_o if_o he_o be_v the_o author_n of_o the_o imperfect_a work_n on_o math._n in_o the_o sacred_a vessel_n there_o be_v not_o the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o mystery_n of_o his_o body_n and_o saint_n augustin_n the_o lord_n doubt_v not_o to_o say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n 12._o con._n adimant_n c._n 12._o when_o he_o give_v the_o sign_n of_o his_o body_n thus_o the_o father_n in_o these_o few_o point_v neither_o be_v it_o hard_o to_o show_v the_o like_a consent_n in_o the_o rest_n what_o will_v you_o now_o subscribe_v unto_o their_o word_n yea_o be_v take_v in_o the_o right_a sense_n but_o who_o shall_v judge_v of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d on_o understand_v they_o one_o way_n we_z another_z shall_v 〈◊〉_d learned_a rabbi_n of_o your_o side_n fie_o that_o be_v too_o partial_a and_o they_o so_o enterfere_v in_o their_o answer_n that_o they_o cut_v and_o hew_v one_o the_o other_o miserable_o reverend_a bishop_n morton_n have_v demonstrate_v this_o at_o large_a mitigator_n preamble●ng_v mitigator_n take_v one_o of_o his_o example_n the_o council_n of_o b●●beris_n forbid_v the_o have_v of_o image_n in_o church_n 9_o do_v imagine_v l._n 2._o c._n 9_o and_o adoration_n of_o they_o of_o image_n represent_v god_n nature_n faith_n andrad●●s_v no_o say_v bellarmine_n for_o such_o be_v not_o then_o in_o use_n for_o fear_v test_n gentile_n shall_v think_v christian_n warship_v they_o idolatrous_o say_v sanders_n but_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o canon_n agree_v not_o much_o with_o this_o exposition_n say_v bellarmine_n because_o christian_n seem_v to_o worship_v those_o image_n as_o god_n ibid._n ibid._n say_v alen_n cope_n but_o this_o exposition_n be_v not_o agreeable_a to_o the_o canon_n say_v