as he is a priuate man may erre but as Pope and in his consistory and iudiciall sentence hee cannot erre But what is the church now become an asse to carry a priuiledge for the Pope onely To returne vpon himselfe the skiruie terme that he hath vsed in the former section Is not heere a huge great mill-post fairely thwited into a poore pudding pricke that whereas we are told that it was the effect of the inestimable price of Christs bloud to purchase a church free from all errours in matter of faith The word of God the rule and square of Christian religion we haue this great prerogatiue of the Church resolued finally into a drunken dreame concerning the Pope that it is he onely that cannot erre This is the vpshot of all and to this issue the matter commeth that the church may erre the general councell may erre be the persons neuer so learned neuer so faithfull neuer so holy onely the Pope though hee bee an ignorant beast a very he hound and incarnate diuell yet sitting downe in his chaire of Pestilence to decree a sentence receiueth presently like the Prophets of Apollo some Enthusiasticall impression whereby he pronounceth infallibly a truth howsoeuer he himselfe in his owne priuate opinion bee perswaded otherwise Which being a ridiculous presumption a meere nouelty most impudently deuised by sycophants and parasites a matter which hath no shadow of defense from the beliefe or practise of the ancient church deserueth rather to be reiected with scorne than to haue any question made of it As for that other matter which he adioineth concerning the word of God and interpretation thereof he saith rightlie that we hold for so we doe the holy word of God to be the onely rule and square of Christian religion u Iren adu haeres lib 3. cap. 1. Euangelium per dei voluntatem in Scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostrae futurum For it was the will of God that the Apostles should commit the Gospell to writing To be the pillar and foundation of our faith and x Aug. in epist. Ioan. tract 3. contra insidiosos errores ponere voluit deus firmamentum in Scripturis sanctis in the scriptures to appoint vs a fortresse against deceitfull errours so as that y Chrysost op imperfect hom 49. Christiani qui sunt in Christianitate volentes accipere firmitatem fidei ad nullam rem aliam fugiant nisi tantummodo ad scripturas Christians being desirous to receiue assurance of their faith are no whither else to flie but onely to the Scriptures But wheras he affirmeth that we say that Christ hath left his holy word to be vnderstood of euery man as his own knowledge and spirit shall direct him and that in doubtfull questions arising he hath taken no order for the deciding of them but that euery one may be his own Iudge they are but silly deuices of obiection against vs to colour the nouelties absurdities which we in the same behalfe iustly condemne in them Wee euery man vnderstand the Scriptures as his owne knowledge and spirit doth direct him and why Because we reiect that course of vnderstanding the Scripture which they factiously and partiallie haue of late deuised for the seruing of their owne turne z Hosius de expresso dei verbe Siquis habeat interpretatisnem ecclesiae Romanae de loco aliquo scripturae etiamsi nec sciat nec intelligat an quomodo cum scripturae verbis conueniat tamen habet ipsissimum verbum dei If a man forsooth haue the interpretation of the church of Rome concerning any place of Scripture albeit he seeth not how it accordeth with the words yet he hath the very word of God We leaue euery man in doubtfull questions to be his owne Iudge but why Because we refuse the triall of a Iudge presumptuously aduanced and authorised by them Forsooth the Pope being accused of hainous abominations and sacriledge against God must sit as Iudge whether he be guiltie or not and whether they doe iustly that haue accused him But what Scripture what Councell what Father or storie or practise of the Church hath tied the interpretation of the Scriptures to the church of Rome or the deciding of controuersies to the Bishop of Rome And whereas their course in this behalfe hath no maner of iustification from the ancient Church I challenge him on the other side to alleage any course entertained by the same Church for the interpretation of Scriptures and iudgement of controuersies which is not approued and practised by vs. Which because he cannot do he doth but waste his wit by trifling in this sort and renuing idle cauils which a Of Traditions sect 21.22 before haue beene troden vnder foote being not able to relieue them with any further defense or strength 18. W. BISHOP To fold vp this part let me entreate thee courteous reader to be an vpright Iudge betweene the Protestants doctrine and ours in this most weighty matter of Christs dignity vertues and mediation and if thou see most euidently that ours doth more aduance them why shouldest thou not giue sentence on our side They make Christ ignorant many yeares of his life we hold him from the first instant of his conception to haue beene replenished with most perfect knowledge They that he spake and taught now and then as other men did and was subiect to disordinate passions We that he was most free from all such and that he taught alwaies most diuinely They make his very death not sufficient to redeeme vs we hold that the least thing that euer he suffered in his life deserued the redemption of many worlds They that he died onely for the elect we that he died for all though many through their owne fault doe not receiue any benefit by his death They that thereby we are not purged from our sinnes but by imputation we that all are by the vertue thereof inwardly cleansed They that Christ purchased a Church consisting of few not to continue long and subiect to many errours we that he established a Church that should be spread ouer all the world and that should continue to the end of the world visibly and alwaies free from any errour in any matter of faith Finally they hold that Christ left his holy word to the disputation of men not taking any certaine order for the ending of controuersies that should arise about it we teach that he hath established a most assured meanes to decide all doubts in religion and to hold all obedient Christians inperfect vniformity of both faith and manners And because I am entred into these comparisons giue mee leaue to persist yet a little longer in them Consider also I pray you who goe neerer to Atheisme either we that thinke and speake of the most sacred Trinity as the blessed Fathers in the first Councell of Nice taught or they who directly crosse them and by the nouelty
not Apostolical traditions which appeare certainely so to be and yet woorthily we reiect those vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions of the Papists which are falsely fathered vpon the Apostles It is by these vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions that the grounds of our faith are impeached and shaken We therefore cannot be said to shake the grounds of faith who retaine the meere simplicity of those grounds and refuse all other strange and bastard stuffe but they shake the grounds of faith who become patrons of such tradition coloured with the names of the Apostles when notwithstanding they plainely crosse the written doctrine of the Apostles 2. W. BISHOP But let vs descend to the particulars wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saints are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that Praier is to be made to Saints departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These points are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creed which hath beene thought to containe all necessary points of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these points nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creed or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundred yeeres This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these bee new articles of faith neuer knowen in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and new Testament Answer is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all things which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this bee as they say wee must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-secene that did not propound the former points to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these latter times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many things confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctly to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all points of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestants themselues must needes confesse or else grant that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that we are iustified by Christs iustice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacraments or that the Church seruice must be said in the vulgar tongue or that all things necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is conteined in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as he doth all necessary points of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall points of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church which being the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Ioh. 16.13 directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith M. PERKINS The eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the church but we poore creatures that are subiect to mistaking and error should not so certainely vnderstand and know that truth of God vnlesse hee had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it self by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrow his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holy Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we do not that the written word containeth all points of doctrine necessary to saluation yet were it most necessary to relie vpoÌ„ the Catholike churches declaration both to be assured which books of scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon Saint Augustine a man of far better iudgement than any of these daies said Con. Epist. Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospel vnlesse the authority of the church mooued him therunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the words of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sense of them do but deceiue men and lead them into error and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to draw others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creeds and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creed did adde some few points vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particular diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by soâ—e fewe and obscure men onely questioned Wherefore to argue that no other points of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creeds is to cut off a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knew not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writings yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions now againe reuiued and holden by the Protestants as in those seuerall questions I haue before prooued R. ABBOT How M. Pirkins vnderstood that all necessary
points in religion to be beleeued are contained in the Creede I doe not well conceiue for my part I rather admit that the Creed is therefore called the key and rule of faith The Creed how the key and rule of faith for that it is a summary Briefe containing the principall and fundamentall points of Christian faith which doe as it weere open the doore to all the rest and by which all preaching and doctrine of faith is to be esteemed so as nothing may be admitted but what holdeth correspondence with this rule according to those vses which the Scripture teacheth vs to make of euery part therof Which the scripture I say teacheth vs to make for if we draw any article of our faith to the maintenance of any doctrine which hath no warrant or testimony of the Scripture we are corrupters of the faith and doe but abuse the name thereof to the cloaking of our owne deuice Thus M. Bishop and his fellowes corrupt the faith as touching the holy catholike church first in wresting the name of the catholike church to the particular church of Rome and secondly in challenging a certain and vndoubted credit to be yeelded to that church for the infallible resolution of all points of faith For as touching the first where hath the Scripture giuen vs any inckling that the name of the Catholike Church should in any peculiar manner be vnderstood of the Church of Rome We regard not their claime we know they haue tongue at will to speake for theÌ„selues but let them giue vs one word of God whereby it may appeare that by the name of the Church we are directed in special maner to that church We are not ignorant that amongst most ancient writers the name of Catholike church is sometimes giuen to the church of Rome but we know withall that it was no otherwise giuen to the church of Rome than to any other church euery Church being called a Catholike church as hath been a Answer to the Epistle sect 3. before shewed that communicated in true faith with the church dispersed thorow the whole world And therefore as Leo wrote himselfe b Leo epist. 12. Leo papa ecclesiae Catholicae vrbis Romae Bishop of the catholike church of the citie of Rome so doth Constantine the Emperour write c Socrat hist. li. 1. ca. 6. Constantinus Catholicae Alexandrinorum ecclesiae to the catholike church of Alexandria and Athanasius accordingly is entituled by his Clergy d Athanas Apolog 2. Theognio c. Presbyteri diaconi sub reuerendissimo episcopo Athanasio Catholicae ecclesiae Alexandrinae Bishop of the catholike church of Alexandria and Austin nameth e August cont Crescon li. 3. ca. 13. Omnis Aphricana Catholica ecclesia the catholike church of Africa and Aurelius writeth himselfe f Collat. cum Donat. cognit 1. ca. 16 Aurelius episcopus ecclesiae Catholicae Carthaginensis Bishop of the catholike church of Carthage and another Aurelius g Ibid. ca. 201. Aurelius episcopus ecclesiae Catholicae Macomadiensits cap. 204. Nouatus episcopus ecclesiae Catholicae Sitifensis Bishop of the catholike church of Macomodia and Nouatus Bishop of the catholike church of Sitif So in the fift councell at Constantinople we reade the holy h Concil Constantinop 5. act 1. Supplicatiâ— Ã Clericis Monachis Apostolici thront Antiochenae magnae â—uitatis Catholicae sanctae ecclesiae catholike church of Antioch and in the subscriptions of the Councell i Dei Act. 8. in subscript Sextiltanus in sericordia Dei episcopus ecclesiae Catholicae Tumensiu Megethius gratia Dei episcopus sanctae dei Catholicae ecclesiae ciuitatis Heracleae c. Sextilianus Bishop of the catholike church of Tunis Megethius Bishop of the holy catholike church of the city of Heracela and Pompeianus Bishop of the holy catholike church of the city of Victoria and sundry other the like By all which and many other examples it may appeare with how little discretion Dureus the Iesuit hath affirmed that k Duraeus cont Whitak li. 3. In nullum planè aliam Catholicae nomen ecclesiae quaerunque de Christiecclesia Prophetae praedixerunt quà m in Romanam conuenire possunt the name of the catholike church and those things which the Prophets haue forespoken of the church of Christ can agree to no other but to the church of Rome And with this madde and witlesse fancy they are all caried away so that there can bee no naming of the church or catholike church but it soundeth in their eares vndoubtedly to haue reference to the Church of Rome According to this fancy it is that M. Bishop heere would haue his Reader to imagine that by the beleefe of the Catholik church he is taught to beleeue the church of Rome And by the same illusion hee wresteth to his purpose the words of the Apostle that the church is the pillar and ground of truth and the promise that Christ maketh vnto his of his spirit to direct and guide them into all truth as if therein were some speciall priuiledge meant to the Roman church The Church how the pillar ground of truth But for the first place if any one church might challenge a prerogatiue therby it should be the church of Ephesus For Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus wished by the Apostle l 1. Tim. 1.3 to abide still there as specially to take vpon him the charge of that place He writeth to him purposely to instruct him how to carry himselfe in that charge m cap. 3.15 That thou maist know saith hee how thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the house of God which is the church of the liuing God the pillar grouÌ„d of truth The house of God then wherin Timothie was to conuerse which he was to gouern was the church of Ephesus as the church in general so this church for it own part in particular is called the church of the liuing God the pillar and ground of truth Yea these two goe hand in hand to be the house of God the church of the liuing God and to be the pillar and ground of truth Now of euery church of the faithfull it is said n 1. Pet. 2.5 Yee as liuely stones are made a spirituall house o 2. Cor. 6.16 yee are the Temple of the liuing God p Eph. 2.22 yee are built together in Christ to be Gods habitation Which way then I maruell is it now brought about that to be the pillar ground of truth should be a peculiar dignity of the church of Rome more than of the church of Ephesus or of any other particular church To be the pillar and ground of truth importeth the office and duty of the whole church and euery part thereof and not a speciall prerogatiue of any one church as to bee alwaies found so in act and execution The church is the pillar and ground of truth as the
purpose he misinforceth the testimony of Epiphanius whereby he would exempt Aerius from the crime of heresie iustly laied vnto his charge by S. Austin and many others But I answer him that though as a man I may be deceiued yet God hath giuen me more grace than that in these matters I will willingly deceiue my selfe In this matter of Epiphanius I do not take my selfe in any sort to be deceiued His conclusion against Aerius as touching praier for the dead is this r Epiphan haer 75. Ecclesia necessâ—râ—ò hoc perficit traditione à patribus accepta quis autem poterit staturum matris dissoluere aut legem patris velut Solomon dicit Audi fili fermones patris tui ne repudies statuta matris tuae ostendens per hoc quòd in scriptu sine scripto decuit pater mater autem nostra ecclesia habet statuta in se posita indissolubilia quae dissolui non pâ—ssuntâ—â— Cùm itaque ordi nata sint in ecclesia statuta benè se habeant omnia mirabâ—ittèr fiant confutaâ—us est tursus etiam hic seductor The Church necessarily doth this by tradition receiued from the Fathers and who may dissolue the statute of his mother or the law of his Father as Solomon saith My sonne heare thy Fathers words and refuse not thy Mothers statutes heereby shewing that both in writing and without writing the Father hath taught and our Mother the Church hath statutes set downe in her which are inuiolable and may not be broken Seeing then saith hee that there are statutes ordeined in the Church and they are well and all things are admirably done this seducer is confuted Now then doe I say that praier for the dead is a tradition Epiphanius saith the same that the Church doth it by tradition from the Fathers Doe I say that he maketh it a statute or ordinance of the Church He himselfe expresly calleth it so and finally presseth the authority of the Church onely for the confuting of Aerius He alleageth no Scripture his words import that he hath none to alledge Onely to grace the ordinances of the Church he wresteth a saying of Salomon nothing pertinent thereto as if we were taught that God without scripture teacheth vs by the Church And if he meane any otherwise but that it is the ordinance of the Church very vainly and idlely doth he heere name the ordinance of the Church But M. Higgons will say that though Epiphanius name it thus a tradition and an ordinance of the Church yet he meaneth it to be such a tradition and ordinance as is from the Apostles But let him meane what he will yet so long as he maketh it a tradition without Scripture my words stand good which I vsed to M. Bishop Å¿ Answer to Doct. Bishops epistle sect 10. pag. 79. 80. Epiphanius resolueth vs that praier for the dead is a matter of tradition and an ordinance of the Church and therefore freeth vs from any trespasse against any thing that Moses or the Prophets or Christ and his Apostles in the Scriptures haue deliuered vnto vs. If it be no matter of Scripture with Epiphanius then I say rightly that he cleereth vs from impugning therein any thing that is deliuered in the Scriptures Albeit because it is by Epiphanius his confession a tradition without Scripture therefore we resolue vndoubtedly that it came not from the Apostles because whatsoeuer they taught concerning faith and saluation is conteined in the Scriptures as before hath beene shewed at large Yea and how vnsoundly Epiphanius vrgeth Apostolike tradition is to be seene in the point which he speaketh of immediately before where he saith that t Epiphan haer 75. Decreuerunt Apostoli quarta prosabbato ieiunium per omnia excepta Pentecoste de sex diebus Paschatis praecipiunt nihil omninò accipere quà m panem salem aquam the Apostles decreed a fast vpon Wednesdaies and Fridaies continually saue betwixt Easter and Whitsuntide and that six daies before Easter men should receiue nothing but bread and salt and water whereas S. Austin professeth that u Aug. epist 86. Quibus diebus non oporteat ieiunare quibus oporteat praecepto Domini vel Apostolorum non inuenio de finitum what daies to fast or what daies not to fast he findeth it not defined or set downe by any commandement of Christ or his Apostles and by Tertullian it appeareth that the Primitiue Church alledged against the Montanists x Tertul. de ieiunio sic Apostolos obsernasse nullum aliud imponentes iugum certoruÌ„ in coÌ„mune â—mnibus obeundorum â—etunorum that the Apostles imposed no yoke of standing and common fasts and of the Lent-fast Socrates resolueth that y Socrat. hist. li. 5. c. 21. Quoniam nemo de ea praeceptum literarum monumentis proditum potest osteÌ„dere perspicuum est Apostolos liberam potestatem in eadem cuiusque menti arbitrio permisisse vt quisque nec metu nec necessitate inductus quod bonum est faceret because no man can shew any written commandement thereof it is manifest that the Apostles left it free to euery mans will and discretion that without feare or necessity euery man should doe what good is Now we cannot wonder that he that would thus vnaduisedly name Apostolike tradition for the one should do the same for the other also Albeit if M. Higgons can iustifie praier for the dead according to Docter Fields rule we will not sticke with him to grant it to be an Apostolicall tradition But he might haue seene that I had put it without the compasse of that rule if he had been desirous to know the truth and had not resolued first vpon other occasions to fall away and afterwards to seeke shifts to excuse his fall I shewed by Origen that the Church at first vsed no praier for the dead by the authour of the ecclesiasticall Hierarchy that when it was first vsed it was vsed onely for iust and holy men of whose soules they were resolued that they were in heauen for what causes I haue expressed there by Epiphanius that they added afterwards to pray for euill men also and publicke offenders by Austin that there was not knowen any definite and certaine vse and effect of praiers and offerings for the dead and that many in his time did plead that if any good were to be done for the soule after death it should rather be by it owne confession of sinnes than by offerings procured by other men And lastly whereas praier for the dead by M. Higgons confession dependeth vpon Purgatory I shewed by Austins expresse words that he had no certaine beleefe or knowledge of any such place which are more cleere to that purpose than that by any Popish sophistications they can be shifted or deluded 36. Albeit I did not only alledge him doubting of Purgatory but also plainly excluding it vpon occasion by denying any third place
seruice M. Bishop sheweth himselfe to be a man of a leaud and dishonest tongue that will make any comparison of the Church of Rome to our Church And thus we are come to an end of his long preface wherein what mature iudgement he hath shewed concerning a matter of so great moment it remaineth for the Reader to iudge for my part I iudge he did very ill bestow his time in blotting so many papers with so much folly and vntruth But his transition is woorthy to be noted Now to the rest of his questions saith he according to his own â—â—â—der whereas of twelue questions consequently handled by M. Perkins he speaketh not a word but onely passeth to an aduertisement in the end where hee thought least harme might befall to him Heere is some want of plaine dealing which may iustly cause his Reader to bee suspicious and doubtfull of him A confutation to D. BISHOPS answer to Master PERKINS his Aduertisement W. PERKINS An aduertisement to all fauourers of the Roman religion shewing as he weeneth that the said Religion is against the Catholike principles of the Catechisme that hath beene agreed vpon euer since the daies of the Apostles by all Churches Which principles be foure The Apostles Creed the tenne Commandements the Lords praier the institution of two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords Supper 1. COR. 11. v. 23. 1. W. BISHOP I Had once determined to haue wholly omitted this goodly post-script because it containeth in manner nothing else but an irkesome repetition of that which hath beene I will not say twice before but more than twenty times handled ouer and ouer in this former small treatise notwithstanding considering both how ready many are when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and also for that these pointes heere reiterated are the most odious that he could cull out of all the rest to vrge against vs I finally resolued to giue them a short answer And further also by prouing their new religion to be very opposite vnto those old grounds of the true religion to requite him with the like that I die not in his debt Thus he beginneth The Roman religion established by the Councell of Trent is in the principall points thereof against the very grounds of the Catechisme the Creede the tenne Commandements the Lords praier the two Sacraments THe Catholike religion embraced and defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul fifteene hundred yeeres before the Councell of Trent and hath been euer sithence by the Bishops of Rome their lawfull successours constantly retained and most sincerely obserued and maintained some articles thereof called into question by the Heretikes of this latter age were in that most learned generall Councell of Trent declared and defined And great meruaile it were if the principall points thereof should be against the grounds of the Catechisme which is in euery point most substantially expounded by the decree and order of the very same Councell Or is it credible that the Church of Rome with which all other ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree and which hath beene euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions should in the principall points of faith crosse and destroy the very principles of that religion that hath been agreed vpon by all Churches euer since the Apostle daies as he saith Is it not much more likely and probable that the Protestants who slander all Churches euer since the time of the Apostles with some kinde of corruption or other and who hold no kinde of Apostolicall tradition to be necessary is not not I say more credible that they should shake those grounds of faith which come by tradition from the Apostles and haue beene euer since by all Churches agreed vpon I suppose that few men of any indifferent iudgement can thinke the contrary R. ABBOT M. Bishop is desirous to seeme to haue omitted nothing because many saith he are ready when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and yet he hath cunningly omitted the handling of twelue questions as I haue already noted which are more than the third part of the booke which he vndertooke to answer In that which here he hath sent vs he taketh vpon him as to answer M. Our religion and not Popery is the old religion Perkins so by way of requitall to prooue that our new religion as he calleth it is very opposite vnto the old grounds of the true religion But if his eies were open he would easily see that that new religion and the true religion are all one our new religon as to him it seemeth being indeed no other but that onely true religion whereby all the faithfull haue been saued from the beginning and so shal be to the worlds end And if he will haue our religion to be taken for a new religion he must first impeach those grounds of antiquitie wherby we haue hitherto iustified the same against his vaine and wilfull cauilations As for that which he saith that the religion now defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul it is the begging of the question a fond presumption an idle headed dreame who but fooles and madde men beleeue it when they see the writings of the Apostles Peter and Paul and therein finde no mention of the religion that is now at Rome neither of the Pope nor of Purgatorie nor Pardons nor Iubilies nor Masse nor Images nor any other of that filth If the successors of that See had constantly reteined the faith that by the Apostles was deliuered we should now haue that religion at Rome which is taught in the Epistle to the Romanes which now is our religion and was then the religion of the church of Rome Of that religion those heretikes whom no otherwise he so nameth but according to the a Act. 24.14 Iewish phrase called nothing into question they only questioned impugned those additions and alterations wherewith the church of Rome hath defiled and disgraced that religion The Councel of Trent a mockerie of the world The Councell of Trent which declared and defined against them was neither learned nor generall It was a base and a vile collusion and meere mockerie of the world partially assembled by the Pope guilefully managed by his Agents directed wholly by his intelligence nothing there to bee concluded but what hee first approued yet all in sine left at his will by that damnable clause neuer heard of in any former Councel b Conc. Trid. sess 7. in princip sess 25. cap. 21. de reformat Salua semper in omnibus authoritate sedis Apostolicae Sauing alwaies and in all things the authoritie of the See Apostolike Some Diuines there were of qualitie and worth who gaue their assistance in that businesse but as for the Bishops of which
the greatest number were Italians they deserued for the most part rather to bee accounted a heard of swine than a Councell of learned men His reason that the principall points of Poperie cannot bee against the grounds of the Catechisme because the same is expounded by the decree and order of that Councell maketh as much for vs as it doth for them For the Catechisme is by order expounded and taught by vs wee open to the people the Creed the ten Commandements the Lords Praier the doctrine of Sacraments M. Bishop therefore doth amisse to say that our religion is opposite to those old grounds of true religion If this argument auaile not for vs then neither shall it auaile for him but wee are still at libertie to conceiue that notwithstanding their expounding of those grounds they teach points of doctrine contrary thereunto And indeed that expounding of theirs was no otherwise begun but in emulation of our doings in that kinde for vntill it pleased God to stirre vp the spirits of some of our men to endeuour the reformation of the Church and to that end to bring the people so much as in them lay out of the thraldome of blindnesse and ignorance wherein they were then holden the vse of Catechisme was quite abolished out of the Church the people knew neither the Creed nor the Lords praier but onely that they spake them like a charme in a strange and vnknowen tongue But when they saw vs recalling them to the ancient order of Catechising and thereby training them to the knowledge of God and of faith towards him they held it necessarie for the satisfaction of the world that they themselues should make some shew of doing the like and thereupon in the Councell of Trent tooke order for a Catechisme to bee published though they neuer meant to make any great vse of it but onely where necessitie should enforce them for the countermining of our labours and the staying of manie whom otherwise the desire of learning and of the knowledge of God would haue caried away from them Into that Catechisme and the rest of theirs how they haue foisted in matters of faith and doctrine which the old expositours of the Catechisme neuer knew nor haue deliuered wee shall somewhat perceiue by examining the processe and particulars of this booke In the meane time we answer M. Bishop that it is verie credible and ready enough to be beleeued of them that are carefull to vnderstand it that the church of Rome albeit while it continued sound in the faith all ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree with it yet since being gon out of her * The church of Rome hath swaiued from the tradition of the Apostles ancient way doth indeed crosse and destroy those principles of religion which formerly haue beene agreed vpon by all Churches For whereas hee saith that that church hath been euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolical traditions it is a stale iest Bellarmine himselfe perforce acknowledgeth it to bee a lie For it being manifest by the testimonie of Anacletus an ancient Bishop of Rome that c De consecrat dist 2. cap. Peracta Peracta consecratione communicent omnes qui nolin◠eccleasisticis carere liminibus sic enim Apostoli statuerunt sancta Romana tenet ecclesia the Apostles decreed and the church of Rome then obserued that they should be excommunicate whosoeuer were present after consecration and did not receiue the Communion Bellarmine in the behalfe of the now-church of Rome reiecteth the same as a thing d Bellarm. de Missa lib. 2. ca. 10. Cortum est decreta ista quae sine dubio non diuini sed humani iuris erant si ad populum pertinebant progressis temporis abrogata fuisse in processe of time abrogated by the church being but a matter of humane only constitutiō decree So likewise we see in the Councel of Cōstance acknowledging that e Concil Const sess 13. Licèt Christus post coenam instituerit discipulis suis administranerit sub vtraque specie panis vini hoc venerabile Sacramentum tamen hoc non obstante c. Et similitèr quòd licèt in primitiua ecclesia huiusmodi Sacramentum à fidelibus reciperetur sub vtraque specie tamen haec consuetudo ad euitandum aliqua scandala pericula est rationabilitèr introducta quòd à laicis tantummodo sub specie panis suscipiatur c. vnde pro lege habenda est c. Christ administred the holy Sacrament to his disciples vnder both kindes and that in the Primitiue Church it was so receiued of the faithfull and yet this notwithstanding they decree it for a law that lay men shall receiuc only in one kinde Now when thus with our eies we see and they themselues tell vs the contrary will M. Bishop notwithstanding tell vs that the Church of Rome hath been euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions Surely if they had failed but in these two they had not obserued al but now how many other things are there wherein they haue apparantly swarued from the example of the Apostles How then can we beleeue M. Bishop any further who doubteth not heere to affirme so grosse and manifest vntruth And to this vntruth he addeth another when hee saith that we slander all churches since the time of the Apostles with some corruption or other It is true that we note the corruptions of some churches and of some men accordingly as the history of the Church and the monuments of antiquity doe lay the same foorth vnto vs but wee cannot say that al Churches or al the Fathers of those times were guiltie of those corruptions For many Churches were there and many Bishops and Pastours of Churches of whom no memoriall is come vnto vs many whom we finde otherwise reported of than was true by the corrupting of those writings which they left vnto the Church and suborning other counterfets in their stead many who haue deliuered some exorbitant opinions of which notwithstanding it appeareth not that they had publike approbation in the Church many who haue left so little in record as touching points of faith as that it is hard by them to esteeme what the doctrine of the Church was As for the corruptions whereof we speake there are many of them such as that I doe not thinke M. Bishop to be so impudent but that hee will acknowledge the same as well as we there are none of them but that either by the word of God or by like warrant of antiquity we prooue them to be such as we report them His other tale that we hold no kinde of Apostolicall traditions to be necessary he himselfe knoweth to be vntrue because he knoweth that we receiue the Creede as necessarie which he saith came by tradition from the Apostles It hath beene also f Of Traditions sect 4. before giuen him to vnderstand that we reiect
Rom. 8 11. quickened by his spirit h Rom 5.19 iustified by his obedience i 2 Cor. 1.22 Ehâ— 1.13.14 2. Tim. 2.19 sealed to the remssion of sinnes and euerlasting life That God hath such a people we beleeue it we see it not neither can our eies discerne who they are that appertaine to this number it being one of the proper emblemes of Gods honour j The Lord knoweth who are his In this sort doe we in the articles of our Creede professe to beleeue the holy Catholike church That there is a church also visible no man denieth no man doubteth nay we affirme that it is amidst that church which wee see that God gathereth vnto himselfe that church which we cannot see And to speake of this visible church also we cannot see it to be Gods church or that it is Gods word that there is preached or that they are the Sacraments of Christ which are there administred or that there is any fruit or benefite to be reaped thereby We see these things done but the estimation of them is a matter of faith and not of fight we see the persons but we do not by our eies perceiue them to be that that they take vpon them to be But being by faith instructed that these things are of God or professing so to be beleeue we discerue by hearing and seeing who they are to whom we are to adioine our selues for the exercise of our faith So then the church is both visible and inuisible visible as touching the persons visible as touching open assemblies and exercises but not visible to bee the church of God for then Iewes and heathens would see so much and would leaue to persecute which now they doe not because they haue no faith and the church is no otherwise knowen so to be but onely by faith Now what saith M. Bishop to hurt any thing that we say The persons saith he in the Catholike church are visible but their indowments are inuisible Well and men are not true members of the true church by being such and such persons but by hauing such and such inward indowments and therfore though they bee visible as touching their persons yet they are not visible as true members of the church The church therefore which wee professe to beleeue which consisteth in them that are the true members of the visible church must needs be granted to be inuisible Yea I say further that men are not at all members of the visible church by being such and such persons but by profession of the faith and name of Christ and participation of his Sacraments And therfore M. Bishop doth much amisse to compare visible persons and inward qualities with the body the soule because to be a visible person is not to be in part a member of the church as the body is part of a man for then euery Turke and Infidell might be said to be in part a member of the church because he is a man but outward acceptance of the faith and visible communion with the church maketh a man outwardly a member thereof and is as it were the body the life and soule wherof is the inward grace of the spirit whereby he is indeed to the eies of God that which outwarly he seemeth to bee to the eies of men But a further difference also there is for that the soule though in it selfe it be inuisible yet is certainly perceiued and discerned by the actions and motions of the body and therefore well may a man be said to be visible as a man though as touching the soule it selfe he be inuisible whereas there are no such actions or motions of a member of the visible church whereby the eie of man can certainely see that hee hath life within or is spiritually the same to God that outwardly he giueth semblance to men to be Because therefore the true members of the church are not to be discerned with the eie it followeth that the church properly so called consisting of those true members is visible to God onely 7. W. BISHOP His last obiection against vs out of the Creed is That the articles of remission of sinnes resurrection of the body and life euerlasting containe a confession of speciall faith For the meaning of them is thus much I beleeue the remission of mine owne sinnes and the resurrectition of mine owne body to life euerlasting Answer That is not the meaning vnlesse you adde some conditions to wit I beleeue the remission of my sinnes if I haue duly vsed the meanes ordained by our Sauiour for the remission of them which is after Baptisme the Sacrament of Penance Item I beleeue I shall haue life euerlasting if I keepe as Christ willed the yong-man to keepe Gods commandements or at the least if I doe die with true repentance Now whether I haue done or shall doe these things required of me I am not so well assured as that I can beleue it for I may be deceiued therein but I haue or may haue a very goood hope by the grace of God to performe them Neither is there any more to be gathered out of Saint Augustine as some of the words by himselfe heere alleaged doe conuince For he requireth besides faith that we turne from our sinnes conforme our will to Gods will and abide in the lap of the Catholike church and so at length we shall be healed See the question of certainty of saluation Note also by the way the vncertainty of of M. PER. doctrine concerning this point for he holdeth that it is not necessary to haue a certaine perswasion of our owne saluation Pag. 2â—0 275. but that it is sufficient to haue a desire to haue it and that doctrine he putteth there as he saith himselfe to expound the Chatechismes that propound faith at so high reach as few can attaine vnto yet heere and elsewhere the goodman forgetting himselfe chargeth vs to crosse the Creed because we doe not wrest faith vp to so high a straine and so in heate of quarelling often expoundeth this contrary to his owne rule Now for proofe of S. Augustines opinion heerein whom he onely citeth take these two sentences for the two points be speaketh of For the first that we be certaine by ordinary faith of our saluation let this serue Of life euerlasting which God that cannot lie hath promised to his children De bono perseuer cap. 22. De correct grat cap. 13. no man can be secure and out of danger before his life be ended which is a tentation vpon earth Secondly that a man once truely iustified may afterward fall We must beleeue saith this holy father that certaine of the children of perdition doe liue in faith that worketh by charity and so doe for a time liue faithfully and iustly they were then truly iustified and yet afterward doe fall and that finally because be calleth them the children of perdition Thus much in answere vnto that which M. PER. obiecteth
cap. 3. Et nuncille viuit in sinu Abraham He now liueth in Abrahams bosome Now then we are come to this that because Abrahams bosome is in heauen and Christs descending to hell was no other but his going to Abrahams bosome therefore the meaning of Christs descending into hell is that hee ascended vp to heauen It were well that they should first cleere these matters for themselues and make good their owne assertion before they should take in hand to question ours Whatsoeuer the meaning bee of Christs desecending into hell we are sure that that which they bring is vaine and false Now the article of Christs descending into hell being according to their exposition impertinent and idle and no vse to bee made thereof in the Creede some in respect thereof haue thought the same to haue crept into it of latter time and not to haue beene there from the beginning and some it may be for I know it not neither dare I take M. Bishops word for it haue quite omitted it in the Creed Neither doe they want inducements heereunto from the ancient church in which there are many Creedes and confessions of faith in which there is no mention of Christs descending into hell And heerein we are to note Doct. Bishop to be a man singularly impudent who alleageth the article to be in the old Roman Creed expounded by Ruffinus whereas the words of Ruffinus himselfe doe expressely affirme the contrary n Ruffin in exposit symb Apost Sciendum sanè est quòd in ecclesiae Romanae symbolo non habetur additum Descenditad inferna sed neque in Orientis ecclesiis habetur hic sermo We are to know saith he that in the Creed of the Roman church it is not added that he descended into hell neither are those words vsed by the Easterne churches The Nicene Creed saith nothing of it which in likelihood would not haue omitted it if it had beene found in the ancienter Creed of the Apostles Saint Austin hath o Tom. 9. de symb vel reg fidei ad Catechumenos foure expositions of the Creed in one place and p Tom. 3. de fide symbolo one in another and in none of these expositions is it found that Christ descended into hell Tertullian hath q Tertul. de praescript adu Praxean de veland virginib three declarations of the rule of faith and this point is not found in any of them Neither doth Ireneus mention it where r Iren. adu heres lib. 1. c. 2. lib. 3. cap. 4. twice he expresseth the Apostolike faith There is a confession of faith set downe by Å¿ Synod Roma tom 1. Concil a Synod at Rome in the time of Iulius the first another in the t Concil Constantin 1 cap. 7. first Councel of Constantinople another in a Councell at u Synod Aleuand apud Cyril in Concitio Ephes Alexandria confirmed by the Councel of Ephesus and many other moe wherein there is nothing said of Christs descending into hell Thus from many examples and authorities of the ancient church those men parhaps thinke that they haue warrant to leaue out that article without being culpable of any violation of Christian faith And although Athanasius and sundry other in their writings haue deliuered this as a point of faith yet they hold that those acts and instruments of publicke recognition which are very frequent to this purpose do ouerwaigh priuate iudgements and are sufficient to excuse or defend that that is done by them But for our parts wee see no sufficient reason to moue vs to follow them herein We see diuers phrases of Scripture tending to the assertion of this article of our beleefe We read our Sauiour Christ professing his reioycing to his Father x Acts. 2.27 Psal 16.10 for that he would not leaue his soule in hell which is vainely spoken if the soule of Christ were not at all in hell Therefore we admit the article and in the confession of our faith we alwaies recite it neither doth any man make question to doe otherwise But M. Bishop excepteth against the variety of expositions that are found amongst vs concerning the same And what is there no variety of expositions thereof to be found amongst them Doe they all so accord in one as that we can obserue no difference of one from another first that learned deuout Authour Durand as M. Bishop y Preface to the Reader sect 5. before hath stiled him doth hold that z Durand apud Bellarm. de Christianima cap. 15. Christ descended not into hell at all by reall presence but only by effect and power a Tho. Aquin. sum p. 3. q. 52. art 2. in concl Christus secundùm effectum in omnem inferâ—â— locum descendit secùndum verò substantialem praesentiâ—m non descendit nisi ad locum iustorum Thomas Aquinas determineth that by reall presence he went onely to Limbus Patrum but to the other parts of hell he descended by vertue and power Bellarmine setteth it down for b Bellarm. de Christianima c. 16. Probabile est profectò animam Christi ad omnia inferni loâ—a descendisse probable that the soule of Christ did verily descend to all the places of hell Thomas Aquinas resolueth that c Tho. Aqui. vt supra art 4. in concl Animam Christi tamdiu fuisse in inferno credendum est quamdin corpus fuit in sepulchro the soule of Christ was so long in hell as his body was in the graue and so they commonly hold as did Vigilius of old d Vig. â—o Eutyc lib. 2. Anima Christi per illud triduum in inferno that for those three daies space the soule of Christ was in hell But S. Austin holdeth it a thing impious to be affirmed e Augst cont Felic Arian ca. 15. Si mortuo corpore ad paradisum anima latronis mox vocatur quenquamnè adhuc tam impium credimus qui dicere audeat quoniam anima saluatoris nostri triduo illo corporeae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipetur that the soule of the theefe being foorthwith called to Paradise the soule of our Sauiour should for the three daies space of his bodily death be in custody in hell Thomas Aquinas is of opinion that f Thom. Aquin. sum pa. 3. qu. 52. art 1. in corp Conueniens fuit Christen ad infernum descendere quia ipse venerat portare poenas nostras vt nos a poena eriperet ex peccatâ— autem homo incurrerat non solum mortem corporis sed etiam descensum ad inseros it behooued that Christ should goe to hell because he came to beare our punishments so to deliuer vs from the same and we by sinne had incurred not onely bodily death but also going to hell But Bonauenture saith and to him Bellarmine inclineth that g Bellerm de Christi anima cap. 16. ex Bonauentura Dicit Christi animam
hold it impossible for him to remooue thence at any time before the last iudgement for feare they should otherwise be inforced to confesse that his body may be in two places at once which is to make him not Lord of the place but some poore prisoner therein And as for Christs sitting one the right hand of his Father they are not yet agreed what it signifieth See Conrad * L. 2. Insti c. 14 ss 3. Caluin plainely saith that after the latter iudgement hee shall sit there no longer That God shall then render to euery man according to his workes as holy Scripture very often doth testifie all the packe of them doth vtterly denie R. ABBOT I doe not know any of our writers that denieth Christ in his resurrection resumed his blood againe but that Christ in his resurrection by his almighty power resumed his bloud againe He quoteth M. Caluin and M. Perkins affirming the contrary but I could not finde that which he mentioneth of them For my part I resolue that if any of them or any other haue said so they haue erred therein because I beleeue that it is true both of the whole and euery part of the body of Christ which Dauid saith a Psal 16.10 Thou wilt not suffer thine holy one to see corruption Saint Austin resolueth that b Aug. de ciu Dei lib. 22. ca. 19. Non quòd existimeÌ„ corpori cuiquam periturum quod naturaliter inerat of our bodies there shall nothing perish that is naturally belonging thereto and groundeth vpon the words of Christ that c Ibid. cap. 14. 20 Luk. 21.18 not a haire of our head shall perish If then it be so in our bodies much more are wee so to conceiue of the body of Christ that nothing at all perished that did belong to the substance of it As for the now remaining of the print of the nailes in the hands feete of Christ of the wound in his side M. Bishop can giue no reason why Caluin might not well account it an old wiues dreame For whereas he alleageth that Christ after his resurrection did shew the same to his Disciples it may well be answered that so Christ after his resurrection did eate and drinke with his Disciples and yet it doth not follow that therefore now Christ doth eate and drinke Both these Saint Austin holdeth to be of like vse to giue to his Disciples assurance of his resurrection whereas now there is no such vse and therefore no reason of the remaining of them d August de ciui dei lib. 22. cap. 19. Quando ille à suis ita deberet attendi vt pâ—ssâ—t agnosci Quò pertinuit etiam vt contrectantibus ostenderet suorum vulnerum cicatrices vt etiam cibum potumque sumeret non alimentorum indigentia sed ea qua et hoc poterat potestate He was so to be seene of them saith he as that he might be knowen Thereto it serued that to them handling him he shewed the skarres of his wounds as also that he did eate and drinke not for want of food but by that power whereby he could so doe at his owne pleasure But of Christ ascending he saith e August in Psal 23. Contrecta cicatrices senties reparatas immortalitati redditam humanam infirmitatem The heauens gaue way to Christs body in his ascension Handle his skarres and thou shalt perceiue them to be repaired and that humane infirmity is restored to immortality That in the ascension of Christ the heauens opened way and passage to his body we beleeue and that necessarily it was so because Christ had a true body which was glorified in taking possession of heauen where is the place of glory albeit in the glorifying of it f August epi. 57. Cui profectò immortalitatem dedit naturam non abstulit he gaue it immortality but tooke not from it the nature of a body so that g Ibid. sub finem In aliquo cali loco propter veri corporis modum it is in some certaine place of heauen because of the condition of a true body Thus Saint Austin saith that he ascended h Idem in Psal 23. Patefactis sibi caelestibus the heauens being made open for him So where the Psalme saith Lift vp your heads O yee gates Saint Hierome saith that i Hieron in Psal 23. Ipse dominus nunc regna caelestia repetens nunciatur c. Tollite portas c. Hoc est reserate caelestes aditus pateat aeternalis ingressus therby is set foorth Christ ascending to heauen and expoundeth the words thus Open yee the entrances of heauen let the euerlasting entry be set open As for M. Bishops foolish Philosophy we regard it not in this case we would know of him by his Philosophy how Saint Steuen said k Act. 7.56 Behold I see the heauens open and the Sonne of man slanding at the right hand of God We wish him to remember that in the measuring of matters of faith by rules of Philosophy Tertullian saith that l Tertul. adu Hermog Philosophi haereticorum patriarch Philosophers were the Patriarchs of heretikes the Apostle therefore giuing warning m Col. 2.18 Beware lest any man spoile you through Philosophy and vaine deceit through the traditions of men according to the rudiments of the world and not according to Christ We aske him againe how it standeth with his Philosophy that n 2. Kin. 2.11 Elias in a whirlewind ascended into heauen We beleeue that the heauens yeelded him way to goe thorow and M. Bishop will not say that he had as yet a glorified body to goe otherwise What he will affirme otherwise The soules of the faithfull in heauen before Christs incarnation let him prooue it or else he shall not finde vs very hasty to beleeue it Now that Elias ascended into heauen the text plainly affirmeth as I haue alleaged and therefore we beleeue vndoubtedly that he did so The same Elias with Moses o Luk. 9.31 appeared vnto Christ in glory and to his Disciples which glory they could not bring with them from the Popish Limbus patrum and therefore wee cannot doubt but they brought it with them from heauen We cannot doubt therefore but that the soules of the faithfull that died before the incarnation of Christ were receiued into heauen For as by the faith of Christs death and resurrection they were acquitted from hel euen so doe we beleeue that by the faith of Christs ascension they were receiued to heauen And of faith the Apostle telleth vs that p Heb. 11.1 it is the subsistence of things hoped for the demonstration or euidence of things which are not seene to which in effect and after a sort the things are which yet indeed are not By faith Abraham so long before q Iohn 8.56 saw the day of Christ and was glad thereof To faith Christ was r Reuel 13.8 the
do not beleeue the one Catholike Church because they doe as well not beleeue it as beleeue it And as for the communion of Saints their learned Masters doe commonly cassier it out of the Creed and that not without cause For by the Saints vnderstanding as the Apostles did all good Christans whether aliue or departed this world they that deny praier to Saints and for the soules in Purgatory haue reason to reiect the common society and enter course that is betweene the Saints and the mutuall honour and help which such good Christian soules doe yeeld and afford one to another R. ABBOT The holy Catholike church which wee beleeue in the Creed being the communion of Saints is onely one The Catholike Church only one which is the body of Christ whereof all the faithfull are members being ioyned into this society by one spirit Visible and Inuisible being but circumstances cannot argue any multiplication of the church because the inuisible church importeth all them and them only who are the true members in their time of the visible church For in the visible church the name of the church properly belongeth to them onely who liue by faith and by the spirit of Christ the rest are not members but a August in 1 Ioan. epist tract 3. Sic sunt in corpore Christi quomodo humores mali as euill humours in the body which wait their time to be purged out In the meane time because all professe to seeke Christ and to serue him and our eies cannot distinguish betwixt them that truely doe so and them that doe not therefore visibly and to vs all goe together vnder the name of the church though many there be hypocrites and time seruers who with God and to his sight are no part thereof So then the church visible and inuisible in substance are the same they differ only in respect and M. Bishop knoweth that respects change not the natures of things and therefore those different respects doe nothing hinder but that the church in nature is alwaies one As touching the holinesse of the church M. Bishop in the deliuering of our opinion keepeth his woont He saith The holines of the church imputatiue and reall that we imagine it to be holy by the imputation of Christs holinesse to the elected brethren and not by the infusion of the holy Ghost into the hearts of all the faithful Whereas we doe not imagine only but by the word of God beleeue and know that the church and all the members thereof are holy not onely iudicially by the imputation of Christs holines but also really by the infusion of the holy Ghost begun in this life by b Rom. 8.23 the first fruits of the spirit and fully to be perefected when the promise of Christ shall be fullfilled c Mat. 5.6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousnesse for they shal be satisfied Againe he excepteth against vs that we cannot abide the name Catholike in the true sense of it Of the true sense of the name Catholike But what is that true sense That is saith hee they will not beleeue the true church to haue beene alwaies visibly extant since the time of the Apostles But what ancient father did euer set this downe for the true sense of the name Catholike If any let him be brought foorth If none why doth he contrary to his owne prescription introduce a new exposition of an article of our beleefe Cyril in his Catechisme bringeth in all the meanings of the name Catholike that he could learne that the church is so called for that d Cyril Hierosci Catechis 18. Illuminat Catholica vocatur quia per vntuersum sit orâ—em terrarum diffusa c. Et quia doret Catholicè hoc est vniuersalitèr sine vllo defectu vel differentia omnia dogmata quae deberent venire in cognitionem c Et quòd omne genus hominum ipè subiugat et quia in vniuersum curat omne genus peccatorum c. hab turque in illa omne genus virtutis c. it is vniuersally spread thorow the whole world for that it teacheth vniuersally all doctrines that are to be known for that it subiecteth to it alkinde of men for that it healeth all kinde of sinnes for that it hath in it all kind of vertues but of M. Bishops meaning that it should be alwaies visibly extant he had learned nothing Surely S. Ambrose saith e Ambros Hexaem lib. 3. cap. 2. Ecclesia habet tempora sua persecutionis pacis videtur sicut luna deficere sed non deficit obumbrari potest deficere non potest The church hath her times of persecution and peace it seemeth as the Moone to faile but it faileth not it may be ouershadowed but vtterly faile it cannot If the church may be as the Moone so ouershadowed by persecution as not to be seene then it is not necessary to be alwaies visibly extant and if that be not necessary then M. Bishop hath plaied heere the false merchant to tell vs that the church is therefore called Catholike because it is alwaies visibly extant Albeit there is somewhat also to be obserued concerning the name of the true church that we may speake to that time of the visibility of the church which M. Bishop specially intendeth For if wee call that the true Church which truely hath the outward vocation and calling of the church then we deny not but that the church in the time of Antichrist must bee and hath beene alwaies visibly extant because Antichrist was to possesse and hath possessed the visible state of the church But if by the true church we meane those members of the church which are truely correspondent to the vocation and calling of the church in faith and obedience vnto God then the true church is not alwaies visible because the greater part being the woorse doth many times oppresse the better and weaker part and proudly carrying it selfe in the opinion and confidence of it selfe persecuteth and driueth into corners all them that gainesay their traditions and wilworships which by their owne authority they establish to delude thereby and frustrate the word of God And thus we say that the true church in the time of the exaltation of Antichrist was in a sort inuisible the publike state of the church yeelding it selfe in thraldome to his tyranny and persecuting the true members of the church who disclaiming his obedience sought to keepe themselues entire and faithfull vnto God Whereas hee further addeth for the notation of the name Catholike that the church was so called as being generally spred into all countries we willingly acknowledge the same as being before acknowledged by the ancient church and defended against the Donatists who by other expositions sought to draw the name vnto themselues as the Papists now doe Onely wee adde that caution which Bellarmine himselfe hath deliuered as necessary for himselfe that f Beliarm
doth cease But yet hee saith that Gelasius in that place signifieth so much in that he affirmeth that by the operation of the holy Ghost the bread and wine doe passe into a diuine substance And it is true indeed that Gelasius so saith But M. Bishop did your eies serue you to looke no further n Gelas vt supra Indiuiuam transennt sancto spiritu perficiente substantiam permanent tamen in suae proprietate naturae They passe saith he into a diuine substance but yet they remaine in the propriety of their owne nature euen as to the same purpose Theodoret saith o Theodoret. dial 1. Symbola signa quae videntur appellatione corporis sanguinis honorauit non naturam quidem mutans sed naturae gratiam adijciens Christ honoured the visible signes with the name of his body and bloud not changing their nature but adding grace vnto nature Now if they still continue in their owne nature as before then they doe not so passe into a diuine substance but that there is still the substance of bread and wine The thing whereto Gelasius driueth that speech is to shew against Eutyches that as in the Sacrament the bread and wine become vnto vs the body and bloud of Christ and yet retaine the same nature and substance as before so the manhood of Christ being ioined into one person with the Godhead is not thereby drowned or swallowed vp but continueth in substance the same that it was from the beginning This he imagined to be very direct against the heresy of Eutyches but by M. Bishps transubstantiation it proueth wholly to the aduantage thereof for that it may bee said that as in the Sacrament the substance of bread and wine are extinguished though there remaine the shew and likenes and taste therof so in the vnion of the man-hood with the god-head there coÌ„tinued the semblance and likenes and outward appearance of a man but the substance thereof was swallowed vp and continued not And this M. Bishop helpeth to strengthen by expounding nature to be vnderstood of naturall qualities whereas Gelasius as he speaketh of the bread and wine there ceaseth not to be the substance or nature of bread and wine so saith of Christ p Gelas ibid. Dicimus proprietatem vniuscuiusque substantiae vel naturae in Christo manere perpetuam We say that the propriety of ech substance or nature abideth continually in Christ vnderstanding still by nature the same that he doth by substance as hee hath said before q Ibi. Substantia nulla est quae non natura dicatur There is no substance but it is called nature euen as Austin saith r August cont Iulian. li. 1. ca. 3. Natura est ipsa substantia cont serm Arianor c. 36. Vnius eiusdemque substantiae vel vt expressiùs dicamus essentiae quod plantùs dicitur vnius eiusdemque naturae The nature is the very substance and Of one and the same substance or essence is more plainly said of one and the same nature which made the Euty chians that they could not endure to name Å¿ Gelas ibid. Quis ferat eos dedignari vocabula promere naturarum two natures in Christ because thereby should be imported two entire and perfect substances And albeit it be true that sometimes the name of nature is vsed to signifie some intrinsecall properties issuing immediately from the essence of the thing yet he that shall say that the nature of bread and wine is the forme and taste and sauor thereof may be thought to speake like a naturall rather than like a learned man His exception that this Gelasius was not Bishop of Rome is vaine It hath beene still and is printed by themselues vnder his name The conclusion doth giue token that it was his t Ibid. in fine Hanc regulam Catholicae fidei c. cùm sedem Apostolicam vestram dilectio vnanimitèr teneat coÌ„staÌ„tèr praedicet sapieÌ„ tèrque defendat seeing you beloued doe with one minde hold fast the Apostolike sea therefore constantly preach and wisely defend this rule of the Catholike faith yea and that very fragment which wee now haue is cited by u Bibliot sanct Patr. edit 2. Iom 4. pa. 557. Iohn the first his successour soone after to the same very purpose whereto he wrot it which alone is sufficient for approbation thereof Againe I cited x Pag. 35.35 Theodoret making mention that the Councell of Laodicea did forbid to pray to Angels or to worship them and I alleaged Austin noting them for heretikes that did so To S. Austin M. Bishop answereth nothing at all with whom as I cited they are recorded for heretikes and termed y August ad Quod vultd haer 39 Angeliciin Angelorum cultu inclinati Angelici who were bowed downe in the worship of Angels How trimly he answereth to Theodoret and the Councell of Laodicea shall be the better discerned if I first set downe the words of Theodoret himselfe Who handling the words of the Apostle z Col 2.18 Let no man at his pleasure be are rule ouer you by humblenes of minde and worshipping of Angels saith thus r Theodoret. in Col. 2. Qui leâ— gâ—m defendebant eos etiam ad angelos â—olendos inducebant dicentes fuisse legem per eos datam MaÌ„sit autem diu hoc vitium in Phrygia Pisidia Quocircae Synodus quoque quae conuenit Laodiceae quae est Phrygiae metropolis lege prohibuit ne precaerentur Angelos Et in hodiernuÌ„ vsque diem licet videre apud illos eorum finitimos oratoria sancti Michaelis Illi ergò hos consulebant humilitate vtentes diceÌ„tes vniuersorum deum nec cerni nec comprehendâ— nec perueniri ad eum posse oportere per Angelos diuinam sibi heneuolentiam conciliare Hoc antem dixit Apostolus In humilitate cultu Angelorum They who defended the law did induce them the Colossians to worship Angels saying that the Law was giuen by them And this corruption continued long in Phrygia and Pisidia Wherefore the Councell of Laodicea the chiefe City of Phrygia did by decree forbid to pray to Angels And euen to this day we may see amongst them and others neere to them Chapels of S. Michael And this they perswaded pretending humility saying that the Lord of all might not be seene nor comprehended nor come vnto and that by the Angels we must procure or obtaine the good will or fauour of God And this saith he the Apostle meant by humility and worship of Angels And what doth M. Bishop now say to this The Councell forsooth meant it Å¿ Reproofe pag. 238. of leauing our Sauiour Iesus Christ to commit idolatry to the Angels preferring the Angels before him But Theoderet knew well the meaning of the Councell Theodoret knew the occasion of that decree namely a superstition brought in by the false Apostles to worship Angels and to pray to them