Selected quad for the lemma: faith_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
faith_n	rule_n	scripture_n	tradition_n	12,255	5	9.8749	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A35564	To J.S., the author of Sure-footing, his letter, lately published, The answer of Mer. Casaubon, D.D., concerning the new way of infallibility lately devised to uphold the Roman cause, the Holy Scriptures, antient fathers and councills laid aside	Casaubon, Meric, 1599-1671.	1665 (1665)	Wing C811; ESTC R3910	21,053	27

to make good but Whether you have positively declared your self this or this to be your opinion and Whether that be not the principal end and scope of your Discourse To maintain such an opinion If therefore you take the advantage of any words casually misplaced or of pages mis-quoted to criminate this is not to criminate properly but to cavil Give me leave therefore to remind you for I profess I did partly rely upon him and upon those grounds I have mentioned I thought I had reason so to do how he Dr. Hammond upon accurate examination of what you had written and some others had written doth represent your opinion and it was some argument to me that you did not think your self wronged by him because I never heard of any answer that you had made However it shall be upon this condition that if I cannot make good my charge to the full from what you have written and I have read since I will make no advantage at all of his words First then the main business as I conceive what you mean by Orall tradition Orall Tradition is that faith Mr. White they are Doctor Hammonds words which the mothers flatter into their children and is the most sweet and connatural way that can be imagined to beget a firm and undoubted assent and this faith Doctor Hammond from you both if not exclusively yet comparatively so as to carry it clearly from Scripture and Fathers which are but dead letters and mute writing in comparison of this which alone he looks on as Gods living word This then is your opinion That all the assurance we have of our Faith and the onely thing Christianity stands upon is by this teaching of flattering mothers or in your words of fathers and mothers of families Dr. Hammond faith if not exclusively But whatever you do in Schism Dispatcht where nevertheless you plainly enough exclude Scripture and Fathers as Dr. Hammond doth else where tell you it is apparent that in your Sure footing you do very positively exclude both Scripture and Fathers as when you say There is no arguing against Tradition out of Scripture and that none canin reason oppose the authority of Fathers and Councils against Tradition Insomuch that you will not allow Christs promise to his Church which both Protestants and Papists if true Christians have so much relied on and found so much comfort in to bear any part in the Rule of Faith that is what else you mean by Rule of Faith I cannot tell to be trusted to as certain and infallible without your Tradition Nor allow us to say that Tradition is certain because Christ hath promised it no further than can be made good or demonstrated by principles of nature and such Mediums as you call intrinsecal Of the Scriptures particularly Dr. Hammond doth give us this account that never any Romanist Jew Heathen or Mahumetan hath attempted the like against them to bring their credit down as Rushworth hath done in his Dialogues to establish this Oral Tradition which you maintain And if the same though truly I do not see what can be done more by any be not done or attempted by you yet you are answerable for what is done by Rushworth in those Dialogues because you refer to him without any exception and that both are engaged in one cause which doth oblige you if not to say yet to think no less Another thing which doth much add to my wondring and indignation is the newness of your way the consequences whereof is that if this way have not been known to former ages till this late discovery it must of necessity follow and your Corollaries acknowledg it that Christ hath had no Church all this while no people or nation upon Earth that could be called faithfull You indeed for the most part cunningly hide as much as you can the monstrousness of your Doctrine under the generall word of Tradition which you know both Papists and Protestants under several notions or in the same notion with some limitations do own and acknowledge though you still understand but one thing by that word that is the teaching of flattering mothers in every age Of mothers I say and upon them it seems you most rely because Dr. Hammond who hath read all your books doth most keep to those terms but of Fathers and Mothers of Families if you will as you expresse it So you tell us in a place this way of Tradition is the way every Catholick in the whole Church none excepted holds and follows your way therefore not a new way as if a man would prove that a dogg is a man because both dog and man are Animals All Romanists hold Tradition therefore they hold the Tradition of Fathers and Mothers that and none but that as the onely foundation of their faith for so it must be understood or else you say nothing Now by Mr. Whites account as I find in Dr. Hammond the first invention or beginning of this was in a sleight familiar conference afterwards exalted to no less then Divine Revelation or Inspiration you shall know what I mean by and by which made Dr. Hammond say that this Discovery of Mr. Whites as it is the greatest blessing the richest jewel so it is the greatest riddle and mystery in the world And again to propose it to his Readers consideration Whether it be credible that so great a Jewel as this pretends to be should be withheld from the Christian world for above 1600 years and at last brought forth not onely by one man that pretends not to inspiration then he did not it seems but also in a sleight familiar conference between two Kinsmen So that if Dr. Hammond who made it his study and had read all your Books as was said before did not ignorantly mistake or wilfully falsifie as you charge me what can be more horrid and monstious And then again by your own Corollaries That body of men who adhere to Tradition Oral still that is the teaching of Fathers and Mothers of Families can evidence clearly and plainly who are truly faithfull who not who are of the Church who not pag 97 98. And again No company of men hang together like a body of a Christian Church or Common-wealth but that which adheres to Tradition p. 99. By these Corollaries I say it is clear and must of necessity follow that till this way of Tradition was hatcht whether new or old Christ had no Church no faithfull People in the World As the Consequence of your Doctrine is horrible so the Doctrine it self both at first hearing and the more a man looks into it if he have the patience with reason and judgment no less prodigious and incredible The Doctrine of Faith on which Gods Catholick Church is founded true Christianity on which depends Eternity of bliss or misery to be preserved in every Age sound and entire and so conveighed from Age to Age by Fathers and Mothers of Families This the way and the

White 's miracle it seems you do not much trust to endeavoured to do it by strong asseverations and from thence proceeded to Oaths and Execrations against himself if it were not true c. so D. Hammond tells you you know where You are not come to Oaths and Execrations I am glad of it for then we should be forced to stop our eares instead of them we hear of strong asseverations of principles of nature and connexion of causes and demonstrations these we may hear and laugh The Doctor it seems by this application began to suspect somewhat which I do more then suspect But I believe had he seen your Sure footing and these pretty Corollaries he had never taken so much pains to consute you as he hath done But he also I perceive made some question whether Rushworths Dialogues the Apology and the Dispatcher were three or one The next injury I charge you you make nothing of and disclaim the testimonies of Popes and Prelates c. I say so you say you do not in that very page it may be but all that you have written doth tend unto this and you do it eminently in your Corollaries page 100 101. Still provided that Tradition be taken in your sense for orall tradition that is the instruction and catechising of fathers and mothers of families in opposition to written And so you explain your self Schism Disp p. 47. To Stop the way against the voluntary mistakes of mine adversaries I declare my self to speak here not of written tradition to be sought for in the Scriptures and Fathers which lyes open to so many cavills and exceptions but of orall tradition All the rest of your accusation is but words and impertinencies which I will not spend time upon To this may the third also which you call injurie be referred That I charge you you slight Scriptures Fathers and Councils as and call them in scorn wordish testimonies It is not your bare professing you respect and honour them in such and such a sense that will serve the turn The greatest Rebell in the world may tell his King he doth honour him as he is a Man perchance Gods creature made after his Image c. when he hath a knife in his hand to stab and murder him as a King So you deal with the Scripture you cast upon it all the dirt and scorn you can as Scripture in general you call it a dead dumb letter what do you think of the Author in the mean time you make it to be of no use at all as to the rule of faith or deciding of controversies of religion But if fathers and mothers of families tell you that understood in points of faith in this and that sence it is good Scripture and the word of God then it shall be Scripture with you and not till then As for other uses which godly people might make of them so highly recommended unto all people by the Ancients upon that score those uses you take away also whilst you forbid them to read them But this you will say doth not concern Oral Tradition properly in so doing you do no more then other Papists But then I must tell you it doth not a little aggravate the case that flattering mothers should be trusted by you for the conveyance of faith and Religion sound and sincere and the true sence of Scripture in things controverted to posterity and so many brought up to learning and so much more rational and intell gent not allowed where the Inquisition reigneth especially the use of them for fear they turn hereticks Before I proceed you charge me I call ordinary Citations testimonies though many citations have nothing in them of a testimony True but he that cites commonly doth intend his citation as a confirmation of somewhat that he saith and so it becomes a testimony in a larger sence as the word is commonly taken in Bellarmine for example and others Testimonia Patrum any words of theirs are so called though never intended for such by the authors nor attired in the formality of a testimony I wonder you should stick at such a thing but you may as wel ' wonder I take notice of it The fourth injury I say the onely thing you place infallibility in is Oral Tradition and the Testimonies of fathers of families Have not you told us many times you admit of nothing to have any part in the rule of faith but Oral Tradition Do not you upon that account exclude Christs promise to his Church Do not you forbid your adversaries to use dead testimonies that is Fathers and Councils or some book granted to be sacred yea elsewhere expressly any kind of testimony either from Scripture Councils Fathers or History except your Oral Tradition be first granted to you which granted all testimonies become uselss Is not this your business every where that tradition your tradition is the onely thing against which nothing must be heard and which onely gives credit unto all other things such credit as they are capable of You would make a man hope sometimes that you begin to be sensible of the absurdity of your doctrine which makes you so often say and unsay and contradict your self But I fear it is not so well but rather that you are afraid to offend your party and therefore write so variously and inconsistently You say you place infallibility in other things too though you make that the greatest Either you aquivocate in the word Infallibility and abuse your Reader or manifestly contradict your self and overthrow your own grounds But Popes and Prelates are masters of families also you say and therefore have a part or bear a share in your Tradition I could answer that flattering mothers is the word in Dr. Hammonds reply all along or most occurrent not without ground certainly and in the very manner or nature of this Tradition as it is explained it is certain they must be the greatest part incomparably But if we take in Fathers as well as Mothers which I suppose is your intention then Popes and Prelates may come in I will grant you but then it must be in the most literal sense as they are fathers of children as well as other men though they have no wives For though he may be called Pater familias I know that keeps a house though of servants onely yet servants men and women at large are not for your purpose as you explain the business of Tradition but such only who were taught by their Fathers and Mothers when Children neither are others mentioned by you that I remember Yea most of your arguments fall to the ground as natural affection and the like if others be admitted besides Children If therefore you take in Popes and Prelates as partners or actors in your tradition it must needs be you presuppose they have Children all or most Which though it may be true enough yet whether they will take it well at your hands to acknowledg it so publickly