consentientem diuinitùs adspiratis Scripturis Traditionibus Sanctorum Patrum Wee reioice togeather eche of vs in others behalfe for that the Faithe bothe of our Churches and also of yours is agreable bothe vnto the Heauenly inspired Scriptures and also to the Tradition and exposition of our Fathers Whiche woordes of Cyrillus beinge hearde and the consente of the Fathers being knowen the whole Councel for ioye made a shoote togeather Omnes ita credimus Papa Leo ita credit c. Thus wee al beleeue Pope Leo thus beleeuethe Thus beleeuethe Leo and Anatolius Thus Cyrillus beleeuethe This is the Faithe of our Fathers This is the Faithe of the Apostles Thus haue the Apostles taught Thus maye you sée M. Hardinge wée saye not to you as you doo to vs If you be Learned for thereof we haue no doubte God graunte ye maie directe your Learninge to his glorie but thus maye you see to what ende the Bishoppes in the Councelles ye speake of alleged the expositions of the Ancient Fathers and howe farre they weighed them vnder the Authoritie of the Scriptures In like sorte doo wée also this day allege against you the manifeste and vndoubted agreeable iudgementes of the moste Aunciente Learned Holy Fathers and thereby as by apapproued and faitheful witnesses wée disclose the infinite folies and errours of your Doctrine And séeinge you haue forsaken the felowship of the saide Holy Fathers as hereafter shal more â—ully appeare wée saye vnto you as Endoxius saide vnto the Heretique Abbate Eutyches in the Councel of Chalcedon Ye haue remoued your selues bothe from al Priestly Communion and also from the presence of Christe The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 2. S. Augustine when he disputed againste Petilian the Donatian Heretique Let not these woordes quod he be hearde betweene vs I saye or you saye Let vs rather speake in this wise Thus saithe the Lorde There let vs seeke the Churche there let vs boulte out the cause M. Hardinge Concerninge this place of S. Augustine it ought not to be stretched to al maters in general that be in question as though wee might not vse the Testimonies and Authorities of the Fathers againste Heretikes but it perteinethe onely to the quaestion in that booke De vnitate Ecclesiae treated of whiche is where the Churche is PetiliaÌ„ the Donatist and the Mainteiners of that Heresie coÌ„tended the Churche to be onely in Aphrike or at the furthest in Parte Donati amonge theÌ„ onely that helde with Donatus The same heresie went they about to proue by Scriptures But when S. Augustine sawe howe weake theire proufes were whiche they brought out of the Scriptures he prouoked them the better to ouerthrow them to come to the trial of the Scriptures And in deede where the Scriptures be manifeste for proufe of any matter what nede is there of Doctours But where the sense of the Scriptures is obscure and may be wrested by euil wittes to the maintenauÌ„ce of an Heresie there the expositions of the Fathers by al Olde VVriters haue ben taken of necessitie to supplie the Scriptures obscuritie and to declare the sense of the Churche whiche the Holy Ghost hathe proÌ„pted And in sutche cases S. Augustine himselfe vsethe the Testimonies of the Fathers not seldome namely against Iulian the Pelagian VVhere beside Scripture touchinge Original sinne he allegethe against the Pelagians a great number of Fathers and at length in one place speakinge of the Authoritie reuerence and credite he had them in he saithe thus Quod credunt credo c VVhat they beleue I beleue what they holde I holde what they teache I teache what they preache I preache From the special to the general negatiuely the argumente holdethe not ye knowe if ye haue not forgotten your Logike The B. of Sarisburie M. Hardinge as wel here as els where thinkethe it an easy mater with a bolde Asseueration to smoothe his vnlearned simple Reader specially sutche a one as hathe no eies to looke after him These woordes of S Augustine saithe he perteine onely vnto the mater he had then in hande and therefore maye not be forced to any other And here he remembrethe vs of a profounde pointe in Logique that a Negatiue CoÌ„clusion from the Special to the General cannot holde Here it were a mater woorthy the hearinge firste howe M. Hardinge coulde enter so déepely to knowe so mutche of S. Augustines meaninge next for as mutche as in respecte of him selfe he euermore fansiethe vs to be vnlearned howe he were hable to teache vs to knowe the same He assuerethe vs vpon his woorde that these woordes of S. Augustine muste néedes be pounded and restreined to that one onely mater maie not in any wise be stretched farther this he imagineth was S. Augustines meaninge Thus good Reader by M. Hardinges handlinge thou haste here a meaninge of S. Augustines that S. Augustine himselfe neuer meante For S. Augustine in the same mater and against the same Heretique Petilian although not in the same Booke writethe thus Siue de Christo siue de eius Ecclesia siue de quacunque re alia quae pertinet ad Fidem vitamque nostraÌ„ noÌ„ dicam Si Nos Sed si Angelus de Coelo nobis annuntiauerit praeterquà m quod in Scripturis Legalibus EuaÌ„gelicis accepistis Anathema sit VVhether it bee of Christe or of his Churche or of any thinge els what so euer perteininge either to our life or to our Faithe I wil not saie If I mee selfe but if an Angel from Heauen shal teache vs otherwise then wee haue receiued in the Bookes of the Lawe and in the Gospelles holde him accursed M. Hardinge saithe S. Augustine meante onely of one mater S. Augustine him selfe saithe he meante of al manner maters touchinge either Faithe or Life M. Hardinge saithe S. Augustine meante this onely of him selfe S. Augustine him selfe saithe be meante it of any other yea eueÌ„ of the Angels of God And shal wee thinke M. Hardinge knoweth S. Augustines meaninge and S. Augustine him selfe knewe it not Verily S. Augustine in an other case concerninge the Arians as I haue touched twise before likewise refuseth the Determinations of al Councelles and Fathers and standeth onely to the Scriptures Neither wil I saithe he â–ª allege againste thee the Councel of Nice nor shalt thou allege againste mée the Councel of Ariminum c. Neither dothe S. Augustine onely saye thus but also yeeldeth a reason why he saithe it These be his woordes Auferantur de medio quae aduersus nos inuicem non ex Diuinis Canonicis Libris sed aliundé recitamus Quaerer fortasse aliquis Cur vis ista auferri de medio Quia nolo humanis Documentis sed Diuinis Oraculis Ecclesiam Sanctam demoÌ„strari Haue away al those Authorities that either of vs allegeth against the other sauinge sutche onely as be taken out of the Heauenly Canonical Scriptures But perhaps somme man wil
Man doothe moste abhorre vvith the pretense of this saieinge in the Gospel where as our Lorde saithe thus I haue many thinges to saie vnto you but as nowe ye are not hable to beare them Euen so saithe Tertullian Eadem dementia confitentur Apostolos quidem nihil ignorasse nec diuersa inter se praedicasse Sed non omnia volunt illos omnibus reuelasse Sed quaedam Palà m Vniuersis quaedam secretò Paucis demandasse By a like kinde of Madnesse they Confesse that the Apostles in deede were ignorante of no thinge nor taught any contrarie Doctrine emonge themselues But they saie The Apostles reucied not al thinges to al menne but shewed certaine thinges openly and to al and other certaine thinges secretely and vnto a fevve By sutche right helde sommetime the greate Heretique Arius For euen so saide he then as M. Hardinge saithe nowe Ex Electis Dei secundum Fidem Peritis Dei Rectigradis oui Sanctum Dei Spiritum acceperunt ego ita didici These thinges haue I learned not of y◠Scriptures but of the Chosen of God according to Faithe of the skilful in Godly vnderstandinge of them that walkte vprightly and had receiued the Sprite of God that is to sale by Tradition So Epiphanius saithe The Heretiques called Caiani auouched al theire solies and Heresies not by the Scriptures but by Tradition as they saide from S. Paule and tooke vpon them to knowe al those Secrete woordes that S. Paule had hearde in the Thirde Heauen If M. Hardinge maie haue leaue to handle the same weapons I doubte not but he wil soone be hable to proue that bothe his Holy Breade his Holy VVater and what so euer shal please him els came by Tradition directly from the Apostles and from Christe him selfe But S. Paule when he saide I vvil comme and take order he meante not to diuise any other Scripture or Newe Verities that they had not knowen before but onely to appointe them in what place at what time in what order and with what other Circumstances the Holy Ministration and other like Ecclesiastical Offices should be vsed As for these fantasies that M. Hardinge and his felowes haue imagined S. Augustine saithe cùm Christus ipse tacuerit quis nostrum dicat Ista vel illa sunt Aut si dicere audeat vnde probat Quis enim est tam vanus aut tam temeratius qui cùm dixerit etiam vera quibas voluerit quae voluerit fine vllo Testimonio Diuino affirmet ea esse quae tunc Dominus dicere noluit For as mutche as Christe him selfe hath not reuesed these thinges whiche of vs wil saie they be these or these Or if he so saie hovve can he proue it For who is there either so vaine or so rashe who notwithstanding he speake the Truthe to whom he listeth and what he listeth wil affirme vvithout any Testimonie of the Scriptures that these be the thinges that the Lorde then vvould not Open Sutche thinges they be S. Hierome saithe are cutte of with the Swerde that is to saie with the Woorde of God M. Hardinge saithe these expresse Woordes Persona Ingenitus Homousios are not found in the Scriptures So saide the Arian Heretiques too as wel as he But what foreeth that Epiphanius saith Nomen Substantiae non ponitur nudè nec in Veteri nec in Nouo Testamento Sensus autem eius Nominis vbique est This very woorde Substantia is not plainely expressed neither in the Newe nor in the Olde Temente But the sense and meaninge of that VVoorde is eueryvvhere So saith Anthanasius Tametfi haec voces in Scriptura non reperiuntur tamen habent earn Sententiam quam Scripturae volunt Notwithstanding these woordes be not founde expressed in the Scripture yet haue they the same sense and meaninge that the scripture willeth Touchinge the Perpetual Virginitie of that Blessed Virgine the Mother of Christe whiche M. Hardinge saithe cannot be proued by any Scriptures Gennadius writeth thus Heluidij prauitatem arguens Hieronymus Libellum Documentis Scripturarum Sufficienter factum aduersus cum edidu S. Hierome repreuinge the wilful lewdnesse of the Heretique Heluidius denieinge the Perpetual Virginitie of Christes Mother sette foorth a Booke against him furnished vvith sufficiēte Testimomonies of the Scriptures Gennadius saithe the Perpetual Virginitie of Our Lady is proued sufficiently by the Scriptures M. Hardinge onely to mainteine his quarrel saith It cannot be proued by any Scriptures but standeth onely by Tradition S. Hierome him selfe in so vaine a contention moued by an Heretique thought it sufficient to answeare thus Mariam nupsisse post partum non credimus quia non legimus Wee beleeue not that Marie was Married againe after her Childebearinge bicause vvee reade it not Here M. Hardinge thinketh to oppresse vs with the Olde Heretiques Ordinarie question Hovve knovve you saith he that the Scriptures be the Scriptures Hovv knovve you that the Gospel of Thomas Bartholomewe and Nicodeme are no Scriptures Thus they laboure to pulle al credite from the Woorde of God and sende vs onely to theire Traditions Of God and his Woorde they would euermore haue vs to stande in doubte but of the Pope and his Woorde they say in any wise wée male not doubte Hosius a special Proctoure of that side saithe Quod Ecclesia docet id est Expressum Verbum Dei What so euer the Churche teacheth he meaneth the Churche of Rome that is the very Expresse VVoorde of God A man might wel demaunde the like question of M. Hardinge Hovv knovv you that the Sonne is the Sonne Or that the Moene is the Moene Or hovve knovve you that the Churche is the Churche Or that the Congregation of the Wicked is not the Churche Sutche idle questions the Olde Heretiques the Manichées demaunded of S. augustine But S. Augustine answeared them Si quaeratis à nob is vnde nos sciamus Apostolorum esse istas literas breuiter vobis respondemus Inde nos scire vnde vos scitis illas literas esse Manichaei If you demaunde of vs hovve vvee knovve that these be the Apostles writinges wee make you this shorte answeare Euen so wee knowe that Oure writinges are of the Apostles as you knowe that your writinges are of the Heretique Manichee But for further answeare I recken M. Hardinge cannot be ignorant that the Gospel of Thomas Bartholomevve Nicodeme and sutche others were neuer written by them whoe 's names they beare but were wickedly and falsely countrefeited vnder their names by sundrie Heretiques S. Ambrose saithe Erant Pseudopropherae c. Erat autem populi gratia discernere Spiritus vt cogno scerer quos referre deberet in numerum Propherarum quos autem quasi bonus Nummularius reprobare Sic nunc in Nouo Testamento multi Euāgelia scribere conati sunt quae boni Nummularij non probauerunt There were False Prophetes c.
of the Romaine Churche is the infallible Rule of Faithe from the vvhiche the Holy Scripture taketh her force And Indulgences and Pardonnes saithe he are not made knovven to vs by the Authoritie of the Scriptures but they are knovven to vs by the Authoritie of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishoppes of Rome vvhich is greater then the Scriptures Pigghius also letteth not to saie that without the licence of the Romaine Church we ought not to beleue the very Plaine Scriptures Mutch like as if any of those that cannot speake pure and cleane Latine and yet can babble out quickely and readily a litle somme sutche Lawe Latine as serueth the Courte woulde needes holde that al others ought also to speake after the same waie that Mammetrectus and Catholicon spake many yeeres agoe and whiche themselues doo yet vse in pleadinge in Courte for so maie it be vnderstoode sufficiently what is said mennes desires maie be satisfied that it is a fondenesse nowe in the later ende to trouble the worlde with a newe kinde of speakinge and to cal againe the olde finenesse and eloquence that Cicero and Caesar vsed in theire daies in the Latine tongue So mutche are these menne beholden to the folie darkenesse of the former times Many thinges as one writeth are had in estimation oftentimes bicause thei haue benne once dedicate to the Temples of the Heathen Goddes Euen so wee see at this daie many thinges allowed highly sette by of these menne not bicause they iudge them so mutche woorthe but onely bicause they haue benne receiued into a custome and after a sorte dedicate to the Temple of God M. Hardinge Ye haue neuer donne with the Churche of Rome I cannot blame you For so long as that standeth without ye repente and tourne ye shal neuer be taken but for sutche as ye be Schismatikes and Heretikes But alas poore soules what thinke ye to ouerthrowe that Churche builded vpon the rocke Peter againste whiche hitherto neither tyrauntes nor Heretikes farre passinge you in lerninge and honestie of common life coulde euer preuaile Trowe ye to extinguishe that faithe of the Romaine Churche whiche is the same that was the faithe of Peter for which Christe praied that it should neuer faile Ye laboure in vaine VVel may Sathan winne you the Churche whiche our Lorde praied for by you shal he neuer winne Geue ouer therefore your vaine and wicked attemptes Trust not in the patches that falsely ye allege out of Canonistes gloses scholemen riminge poetes Heretikes and who so euer be they neuer so bad Some ignorant persons maye ye deceiue whose sinnes deserue the same VVhat Syluester Prierlât saieth I minde not here to discusse Neither where he saithe that you alleage haue you thought good to tel vs lest by perusinge the place we shoulde take you in a lie as we haue almoste in al your other allegations The like sinceritie you use in alleaginge Pighius VVe binde our selues neither to the wordes of Syluester nor of Pighius If they erre what is that to vs Let them beare theire owne burthen If they tel truth we beleue them for truthes sake If otherwise we leaue that parte for you to carpe If Syluester Prierias saide that for pointes of belefe the Doctrine of the Romaine Churche is a squire to trie theire truthe by the same beinge wel vnderstanded is right true Likewise if Pighius saie that the Romaine Churche sheweth vnto vs which be the approued and vndoubted scriptures and whiche be not this is so true as your selfe I suppose wil yelde thereunto As for that the scripture receiued from the Churche of Rome Authoritie credite and force if in your meaninge you exclude God that is your lie not Syluesters sentence If relation be made to vs that we ought not geue credite vnto it onlesse it had ben shewed to be holy scripture by the Romaine Church whiche is the true Churche of Christe in this sense be it Syluester or who els so euer saithe it it is a true saieinge and agreable to S. Augustine Ego Euangelio non crederem nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commueret Authoritas I woulde not beleue the Gospel except the Auctoritie of the Catholike Churche moued me And for that you alleage out of him touchinge indulgences truthe it is the ful and whole knowledge of them is not plainely opened vnto vs by expresse and euident wordes of Scripture no more then the mysterie of the blessed Trinitie baptizinge of infantes and many other truthes but rather by the doctrine of the Romaine Churche VVhere you tel vs of Pighius that he letteth not to saie that without the licence of the Romishe Churche for in that word you please your selfe wel we ought not to beleue the very plaine scriptures we wil proclaime you a lyer vntil you shewe vs where he spake so farre beside reason and lerninge The holy Churche doth not wil vs to staie from belefe of the scriptures vntil we haue licence but by al waies and meanes inuiteth and stirreth vs to beleue the truthe in the scriptures vttered The B. of Sarisburie The greatest weight hereof vpon twoo of your Doctoures Syluester Prieriâs and Albertus Pigghius Whoe 's credite notwithstandinge yée woulde faine otherwise saue vpright yet here as it séemeth ye are contente for shame to géeue them ouer VVe binde our selues yée saie neither to the woordes of Syluester nor of Pigghius If they erre what is that to vs This shorte and blunte answeare notwithstandinge it séeme to like wel you yet perhaps Prieriâs and Pigghius it woulde not like I sée no greate cause to the contrarie but either of them might as wel renounce your Authoritie and saie of you Wée are not bounde neither to M. Hardinges woordes nor to his felowes For that yée doubte the Truthe of our allegations reade Syluester Prieriâs Maister of the Popes Palace in his Booke entituled Contra praesumptuosas Martini Lutheri Conclusiones de potestate Papae His wordes there emongest others be these Quicūque nō innititur Doctrinae Romanae Ecclesiae ac Romani pōlificis tanquam Regulae Dei infallibili à qua etiam sacra Scriptura robur trahit Authoritatem Haereticus est Who so euer leaneth not to the Doctrine of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the infallible Rule of God of vvhiche Doctrine the Holy Scripture taketh force and Authoritie he is an Heretique Againe he saithe Authoritas Romanae Ecclesiae Romanique pontificis maior est c. The Authoritie of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the Authoritie of Goddes woorde As for that is here alleged of Pigghius it is the very sounde and sense of the greatest parte of his Common place De Ecclesia Of whoe 's iudgemente herein M. Caluine writeth thus Pighius ait Nullius Scripturae Authoritate quantum libet Clarae nostro quidem
of him selfe but of Freere Eckius that disputed against him Eckius and his felowes neuer beganne this mater for Goddes sake nor for Goddes sake wil they ende it For he sawe they had begonne were bente to ende it againste God as beinge enflamed with ambition and malice and procured and hired by the Pope Euen so M. Hardinge maie wée also truely saie You and your Felowes haue not begonne these your Contentious Vanities for Goddes sake nor for Goddes sake wil you ende them The Apologie Cap. 16. Diuision 8. Wherefore if thei wil weigh al these thinges with a quiet minde fully bente to heare to learne thei wil not onely allowe this determination of ours whoe haue foresaken Errours folowed Christe and his Apostles but themselues also wil foresake their owne selues and ioine of theire owne accorde to our side to goe with vs. Here endeth the Fifthe Parte The Sixthe Parte The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 1. BVt peraduenture they wil saie it was treason to attempt these maters without a sacred General Councel For that therein consisteth the whole force of the Churche there Christe hath promised he wil euer be a presente assistant Yet they themselues without tarrienge for any General Councel haue broken the Commaundementes of God and the Decrees of the Apostles and as wee said a little aboue they haue spoiled and disanulled almoste al not onely the Ordinaunces but euen the Doctrine of the Primitiue Churche And where they saie It is not lawful to make a chaunge without a Councel what was he that gaue vs these Lawes or from whence had they this Iniunction M. Hardinge If general Councels continewe in that estimation and Auctoritie they haue euer had theire priuate conspiracies and false conueiances in corners be like to be dasshed Nowe priâ—keth foorth theire Secretary who thinketh him self a fresh souldier in Rhetorike and geueth the onsette vpon vs with a blinde peraduenture But Sir what so euer you imagine vs to saie touchinge a General Councel we are not so simple as to graunt whiche your Peraduenture semeth to surmise of vs that your Heretical and moste vngodly matters whiche you speake of might without blame be attempted by licence of any Councel Sutche wicked changes in religion as ye haue made neither is it lawful to make with a Councel nor without a Councel The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 2. In deede King Agesilaus did but fondely who when he had a determinate answeare made him of the opinion and wil of mighty Iuppiter woulde afterwarde bringe the whole matter before Apollo to knowe whether he woulde allowe thereof as his Father Iuppiter had donne or no. But yet shoulde wee doo mutche more fondely when we heare God him selfe plainely speake to vs in his most Holy Scriptures and maie vnderstande by them his wil and meaninge if wee would afterwarde as though this were of none effecte bring our whole cause to be tried by a Councel which were nothinge els but to aske whether menne would allowe as God did and whether menne woulde confirme Goddes Commaundemente by theire Authoritie M. Hardinge For as mutche as the scriptures wherein God speaketh vnto vs be in sundrie places not moste open and plaine to humaine senses and many by mistakinge them be deceiued were it not wel done of you for the more suretie and better vnderstandinge of that ye goe about I meane in matters concerninge religion to folowe the iudgemente of the Catholike Churche represented in general councels Yea we saie boldely that surer it is in pointes of faithe to leane to the exposition of the Fathers agreinge togeather and to folowe the tradition of the Churche then to trust to your selues or to the letter of the scriptures scanned onely by your owne wittes For the Churche is promised to be lead into al Truthe by the holy Ghost Ye cannot saie any such promise hath ben made to your particulare company Therefore it were not fondly done as ye saie but wisely saie we if ye tried and examined your Doctrine which ye pretende to be according vnto the Scriptures by the rule of Ecclesiastical Tradition which is the chiefe rule to trie euery Doctrine by The B. of Sarisburie Wée neuer despised the iudgemente of the Learned and Holy Fathers but rather take them and embrace them as the Witnesses of Goddes Truthe And therein wée finde you the more blame woorthy M. Hardinge for that hauinge without cause renounced the iudgemente and orders of the Primitiue Churche and Anciente Fathers as to the wise and Learned it maie soone appeare yet neuerthelesse yée euermore make vaunte of your Antiquitie and fraie the world with a visarde of the Churche a shewe of Olde Fathers as if a poore Sommonere that had loste his Commission would serue Citations by the vertue of his emptie bore And thus haue ye set al your vaine fantasies in place of Goddes Churche and your Churche in place of God as by the woordes and witnesse of your owne Felowes I haue before shewed more at large For example Cardinal Cusanus saith Nulla sunt Christi Praecepta nisi quae per Ecclesiam pro talibus accepta sunt The Commaundementes of Christe are no Commaundementes Onlesse they be so allowed by the Churche Thus yée leaue Iuppiter and renne to Apollo or rather yée foresake God séeke to Man as it is written in the Prophete Hieremie Yee leaue the Fountaine of the Water of Life and rippe vp broken and filthy Cesternes that can holde no Water Tertullian thus vpbraideth the Heathens Apud vos de humano arbitratu Diuinitas pensitatur Emonge you the right of God is weighed by the iudgemente of menne But Clemens Alexandrinus saithe Quoniam ipsum Verbum ad nos venit de Coelo noÌ„ est nobis ampliùs eundum ad Humanam Doctrinam For so mutche as the Worde it selfe that is Christe is comme to vs from Heauen wee maie not nowe any more seeke vnto the Doctrine of Man Likewise S. Chrysostome saithe Fuisset extremae absurditatis eum qui edoctus fuerat à Deo postea cum hominibus communicate It had benne greate folie for S. Paule hauing receiued his Doctrine from God him selfe afterward to conferre thereof with menne that is to saie with Peter or Iames or with any others The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 3. Why I beseche you except a Councel wil and commaunde shal not Truthe be Truthe or God be God If Christe had meante to doo so from the beginninge as that he woulde preache or teache nothinge without the Bishoppes consente but referre al this Doctrine ouer to Annas Caiphas where shoulde nowe haue benne the Christian Faithe Or who at any time shoulde haue hearde the Gospel taught Peter verily whom the Pope hath oftener in his mouthe more reuerently vseth to speake of then he dooth of Iesus Christe did boldely stand against the Holy Councel saieing It is better to obey God then Men. And after yâ— Paule
onely are the Churche to geue credite to al your fantasies yea although ye be the defacers enimies of the Churche Verily the bare name of the Churche is not sufficient S. Paule saithe that Antichriste the Man of sinne shal sitte in the Temple of God whereby no doubte he meante the Churche But M. Hardinge Heare you the voice of God leaue your Fables speake Goddes Holy Woord and speake it truely be ye faitheful Ministers of the Truthe Then who so euer shal be founde to despise your Doctrine be he kinge or Emperour wée will not doubte to calle him an Heathen and Publicane But if he be an Heathen that wil not beare your Churche what is he then that wil not heare Christe Aeneas Syluius beinge afterwarde Pope him selfe saithe thus Si Romanus Pontifex non audiet Ecclesiam Christum quoque non audiet tanquam Ethnicus Publicanus haberi debet If the Bishop of Rome wil not heare the Churche he wil not heare Christe and therefore muste be taken as an Heathen and Publicane S. Augustine saith Oues meae vocem meam audiuÌ„t sequuntur me AuferaÌ„tur chartae Humanae sonent voces Diuinae My Sheepe heare my voice and folowe me Awaie with Mannes VVrittinges Let the Voice of God sounde vnto vs. Surely Doctour Luther him selfe againste whom M. Hardinge so vehemently and so often inflamethe his choler in humble and reuerent manner writethe thus Nos colimus Romanam Ecclefiam in omnibus Tantùm illis resistimus qui pro Ecclesia obtrudunt Babyloniam VVee honour the Churche of Rome in al thinges Onely wee withstand them that in steede of the Churche haue thruste in the CoÌ„susion of Babylon In like sense S. Cyprian saithe Non est pax sed bellum nec Ecclesiae iungitur qui ab Euangelio separatur It is not peace It is VVarre Neither is he ioined to the Churche that is dinided from the Gospel Nowe howe carefully the Churche of Rome is leadde by the Gospel of Christe wee maie easily learne by Nicolaus Cusanus a Cardinal of the same Churche of Rome Thus he saithe Sequuntur Scripturae Ecclesiam non è conuerso The Scriptures of God folowe the Churche but contrary wise the Churche folowethe not the Scriptures To conclude wée maye saye vnto you as S. Augustine saide sometime to PeÌ„tilian the Donatian Heretique Vtrùm nos Schismatici simus an vos nec ego nec tu sed Christus interrogetur vt iudicet Ecclesiam suam Whether of vs be Schâ—matiques wee or you aske you not me I wil not aske you Let Christe be asked that he maie shewe vs his owne Churche The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 1. With this swerde did Christe put of the Diuel when he was tempted of him with these weapons ought al presumption whiche doothe auaunce it selfe againste God to be ouerthrowen and conquered For al Scripture saithe S. Paule that commethe by the Inspiration of God is profitable to teache to confute to instructe and to reproue that the man of God may be perfite and throughly framed to euery good woorke Thus did the Holy Fathers alwaie fight againste the Heretiques with none other force then with the Holy Scriptures M. Hardinge That the Holy Fathers did euer more fight against the Heretiques with nowe other force then with the Holy Scriptures that weè denie For What did the Fathers in the first general Councel holden at Nice did they fight against Arius and the mainteiners of his Heresie with no other force then with the Scriptures When those Heretikes refused the woorde Homousion whereby is signified the sonne of God to be of one and the same substance with God the Father for that it was not to be found in the Scriptures besides whiche they stiffely denied as ye doo that any thinge ought to be receiued did not the Caetholike Bishoppes of thother side flie to the Ancient Fathers did thei not appeale to the iudgementes of those Fathers which had geuen sentence of the mater then beinge in controuersie before that Arius and those that helde of his side were borne In the seconde Councel assembled at Constantinople were not the Heretikes of sundry sectes by a wittie and a godly policie contriued betwene Nectarius the Bishop and Theodosius the Emperour through the suggestion of the greate Clerke Stsinnius driuen to receiue the Doctours who liued before theire Heresies were heard of as witnesses of true Christian Doctrine woorthy of credite Macedonius in that Councel was condemned who therefore denied the Holy Ghost to be God bicause the Scriptures geue not vnto him that name But the Bishops there assembled as Photius that learned Bishop writeth declared out of the teaching of the Fathers and Diuines before theire time that the Holy Ghost is to be adored worshipped and glorified as beinge of one nature and substance togeather with the Father and the Sonne In the thirde Councel kept at Ephesus the Heretike Nestorius boasted at ye doo of the Scriptures sayinge they were of his side and would neither speake nor heare ought but Scriptures Scriptures And alleaginge a place or twoo out of the Gospel where Marie is called the Mother of Iesus stoutely finde me in all Scripture quoth he wher Marie is called the Mother of God Hereto what said that holy and learned Bishop Cyrillus chiefe in that Councel Hanc nobis fidem diuini tradidere Discipuli licet nullam fecerint dictionis huius mentionem ita tamen sentire à sanctis Patribus edocti sumus This Fatthe saith he the Disciples of God haue by tradition lefte vnto vs. And although they haue made no expresse mention of this woorde Deipara yet so to thinke we haue benne taught of the Holy Fathers When they reasoned about rules touchinge faithe to be made saithe Vincentius Lirinensis writinge of that Councel to al the Bishoppes there assembled to the number almost of two hundred this seemed most Catholike most faitheful and beste to be done that the sentences of the Holy Fathers should be brought foorthe amonge them to th end that by theire consente and Decrce the Religion of the Olde Doctrine should be confirmed and the blasphemie of the Prophane nouelâ—ie condemned Behold Sirs what weapons the Fathers haue vsed against Heresies besides the Holy Scriptures In the fourthe Councel whiche was celebrated at Chalcedon the Heretike Eutyches as ye and al Heretikes haue done câ—aked mutche of the Scriptures and required his matter to be discussed by Scriptures Tel me quoth he mockingly to euery one that reasoned with him in what Scripture lie the twoo natures But let vs heare what the Learned Bishoppes of that Councel saide thereto VVee finde in the first action of the Councel that they cried out aloude Ea quae sunt Patrum teneantur The thinges that the Fathers haue taught let them be kept Againe when they come to the definitiue sentence they saie Sequentes igitur Sanctos Patres
de sua Fide viuit And wee beinge Laiemenne are wee not Priestes It is written Christe hath made vs bothe a Kingedome and Priestes vnto God his Father The Authoritie of the Churche and the Honour by the Assemblie or Councel of Order Sanctified of God hath made a difference bitwene the Laie and the Cleregie Where as there is no Assemblie of Ecclesiastical Order the Prieste beinge there alone without the companie of other Priestes doothe bothe Minister the Oblation and also Baptize Yea and be there but Three togeather and though they be Latemenne yet is there a Churche For euery man liueth of his owne Faithe Againe ye demaunde of me what Bishoppe of Sacisburie euer sithence Augostines time maineteined this Doctrine I might likewise and by as good Authoritie demaunde of you what Bishop of Rome euer before the same Englishe Augustines time maineteined your Doctrine Or as I saide before what Bishop of Rome euer before that time either saide or knewe your Priuate Masse Touchinge the Bishoppes of Sarisburie you your selfe haue already named twoo Bishop Shaxton and Bishop Capon bothe Learned and graue Fathers and bothe Preachers and professours of the Gospel For the reste of the Bishops that were before them what Faithe they helde and what they either liked or misliked by their writinges or Sermons it dothe not greately appeare I truste they helde the Fundation and liued and died in the Faithe of Christe If they had liued in these daies and seene that you see they would not haue benne partakers of your wilfulnesse To be shorte wée succede the Bishoppes that haue benne before our daies Wee are Elected Consecrate Confirmed and Admitted as they were If they were deceiued in any thinge wee succede them in place but not in errour They were our Predecessours but not the Rules and Standardes of our Faithe Or rather to sette aparte al comparison of Personnes the Doctrine of Christe this daie M. Hardinge Succedeth your Doctrine as the Daie Succedeth the Nighte as the Lighte Succedeth Darkenesse and as the Truthe Succedeth Errour Nowe for as mutche as ye haue thought it so good to examine the Petite degree of the Bishoppes of Sarisburie I truste ye wil not thinke it il if I alâ—tle touche the like in the Bishoppes of Rome that wée maye thereby be the better hable to sée some of the branches of your Succession Therefore shortly to saie you knowe that Pope Marcellinus committed Idolatrie that Pope Syluester 2. was a Coniurer and gaue him selfe whole Body and Soule vnto the Diuel and by the Diuels procuremente was made Pope That Pope Zosimus for ambition and claime of gouernmente corrupted the Holy Councel of Nice That Pope Liberius was an Arian Heretique That Pope Leo as appeareth by the Legende was likewise an Arian That Pope Coelestinus was a Nestorian Heretique Pope Honorius was a Monothelite Heretique Pope Iohn 22. was reprooued by Gerson and the Schole of Parise for an Heretique Petrarcha saithe Rome is a Sanctuarie of al Heresies Lyra saithe that many Popes haue fallen into Heresies you know that Pope Hildebrande as he was charged by the Councel of Brixia was an Aduouterer a Churcherobber a Periured man a Mankiller a Sorcerer and a Renegate of the Faithe That Platina calleth the Popes sometimes in scorne Pontificulos Litle Petite Popes sometimes Monstra Portenta Monsters and Vnnatural and il shapen Creatures Pope Adrian the fourthe was woonte to saie Succedimus non Petro in pascendo sed Romulo in Parricidio VVee Succede not Peter in Feedinge but Romulus in Killinge And to leaue Dame Iohane the woman Pope with many others moe of like Vertue and Holinesse as hauinge no pleasure in this rehersal And for as mutche as M. Hardinge began this mater with Sarisburie to ende it with the same Iohannes Sarisburiensis saithe In Romana Ecclesia sedent Scribae Pharisaei In the Churche of Rome by Succession sitte the Scribes and the Phariseis This is M. Hardinges holy Succession Though Faithe faile yet Succession muste holde For vnto sutche Succession God hath bounde the Holy Ghoste For lacke of this Succession for that in our Sees in the Churches of Englande wée finde not so many Idolaters Necromancers Heretiques Aduouterours Church-robbers Periured Personnes Mankillers Renegates Monsters Scribes and Pharisies as wée maie easily finde in the Churche of Rome therefore I trowe M. Hardinge saithe wée haue no Succession wée are no Bishoppes wée haue no Churche at al. But S. Paule saithe Faithe commeth not by Succession but by hearinge and hearinge commeth not of Legacie or Enheritance from Bishop to Bishop but of the Woorde of God They are not alwaies Godly that Succede the Godly Manasses succeded Ezechias and Hieroboam succeded Dauid By Succession the Turke this daie possesseth and holdeth the foure greate Patriarkal Sées of the Churche Constantinople Alexandria Antioche and Hierusalem By Succession Christe saithe Desolation shal fitte in the Holy place and Antichriste shal presse into the roume of Christe It is not sufficient to claime Succession of place It behooueth vs rather to haue regarde to the Succession of Doctrine S. Bernarde saithe Quid prodest si Canonice eligantur non Canonicè viuant What auaileth it if they be chosen in Order and liue out of Ordere So saithe S. Augustine Ipsum Characterem multi Lupi Lupis imprimunt The outwarde marke or right of a Bishop manie geue to Woulues and he Woulues them selues Therefore the Ancient Father Irenaeus geueth vs this good Councel Eis qui sunt in Ecclesia Presbyteris obaudire oportet qui Successionem habent ab Apostolis qui cum Episcopatus Successione Charisma Veritatis certum secundum beneplacitum Patris acceperunt It becommeth vs to obeie those Priestes in the Churche whiche haue their Succession from yâ— Apostles and togeather with the Succession of their Bishoprikes accordinge to yâ— good wil of God the Father haue receiued the vndoubted gifte of the Truthe S. Cyprian beinge likewise charged for dissentinge from his predecessours answeareth thus Si quis de Antecessoribus meis non hoc obseruauit tenuit quod nos Dominus exemplo Magisterio suo docuit potest simplicitati eius venia concedi Nobis verâ— ignoici non potest qui nunc à Domino admoniti instructi sumus If any of my Predecessours haue not obserued and kepte the same that our Lorde hath taught vs bothe by his example and also by his Commaundemente his simplicitie maie be pardoned But wee if wée doo the like can hope for no pardonne beinge nowe admonished and instructed of our Lorde Compare the vse and order of our Churches M. Hardinge with the Primitiue Churche of God and ye shal easily see the right of our Succession S. Cyprian saithe Si Canalis aquae quae copiose prius laâ—gâ—â—â—r profluâ—baâ— subitâ— deficiat noÌ„ne adfonteÌ„ pergitur c. Hoc nuÌ„c facere oporteâ— Dei Sacerdotes Praecepta Diuina
Basile reckeneth Traditions to be One and Equal with the Woorde of God Firste that S. Basile worte those woordes rather of zele then of Iudgement it maie easily appeare by that the selfe same Traditions that he there specially nameth and so highely commendeth are for the greattest parte already abolished and quite foregotten yea and that euen in the Churche of Rome Yet the Woorde of God endureth stil and shal endure for euer For example by one of S. Basiles necessarie Traditions It is not lawful for any man to kneele in the Churche vpon the Sonnedaie But euery man is bounde by the same Tradition at Sermon at Praier at the Communion to stande vpright And this he saithe was geuen vnto vs in Secrete Charge by the Apostles of Christe This so necessarie and so Apostolique Tradition is now dissolued and broken and vtterly foregotten not onely in Louaine but also in Rome S. Augustine saithe By Tradition of the Apostles bitwéene Easter and Witsondaie it was not lavvful for any man to Faste Yet now wée Faste within the same daies so forebidden and the same kinde of Faste is thought lawful the Apostles Tradition to the contrarie notwithstandinge The reste of S. Basiles Traditions stande in halowinge of VVater in Blessinge of Oile in Praieinge towardes the Easte in vtteringe certaine woordes of Inuocation at the shewinge foorthe of the Breade of Thankesgeuinge vnto the people These thinges I beléeue M. Hardinge him selfe neuer thought to be Equiualente with the Woorde of God But if these and other like Traditions be so weighty and so necessarie as he séemeth to make them then let him tel vs in good soothe and without fable what were these Mystical Solemne VVoordes of Inuocation that S. Basâ—le saithe were spoken by the Prieste at the Openinge or shewinge foorthe of yâ— Sacrament If they be so necessarie to be vsed and continued in the Churche of God why hath he his whole Romaine Cleregie quite foregotten them If he and his Cleregie haue foregotten them and vse them not and care not for them how can he saie or maie wée thinke they are so necessarie to Saluation This is the Simplicitie and plainenesse of M. Hardinges dealinge He telleth vs many tales of the Apostles Traditions being him selfe the manifeste despiser and breaker of the same Traditions Touchinge the woordes of S. Paule I marueile that M. Hardinge could so easily be deceiued For S. Paule him selfe euen in the same woordes in the selfe same line would haue tolde him that by the name of Traditions he meante not vnvvritten Verities and Liuelesse Ceremonies as he supposeth but the selfe same Substance of Religion Doctrine that he had vttered vnto the Thessaloniens before either by Epistle or by Preachinge These be his Woordes Holde the Traditions whiche ye haue receiued either by Epistle or by Woorde He calleth them Traditions although they were conteined in his Epistles and deliuered to them by Writinge For the Apostles preachinge writinge in grounde and substance were al one Nicephorus saithe Paulus quae praesens oratione sua dilucidè docuerat eadem absens per compendium in memoriam scripta Epistola reuocare voluit Paule what thinges beinge presente he had plainely taught by Mouthe the same thinges afterwarde beinge absente he shortely called to their remembrance by writinge of an Epistle The like he writeth also of S. Mathewe Matthaeus discedens aliò praedicatum absentiam suam scripto praesenti compensauit S. Mathewe departinge to preache in other places recompensed his absence by presente vvritinge S. Paule vnto the Philippians saithe thus Eadem scribere mihi quidem non pigrum vobis auâ—em necessarium To write vnto you the selfe same thinges vnto me it is not paineful but in your behalfe it is necessarie These woordes S. Hierome expoundeth thus Eadem scribere hoc est eadem repetere quae praesens dixeram To write the same thinges that is to saie to make rehearsal of the same thinges that I tolde you by Mouthe wheâ— I was presente So saithe Theophylacte speakinge in the personne of S. Luke Priùs te sine Scripto institui nunc scriptum tibi trado Euangelium Atque ita mentem tuam munio vt ne obliuiscatur eorum quae priùs sine scriptis Tradita sunt Before this time I haue instructed thee vvithout vvritinge Nowe I deliuer vnto thee a vvritten Gospel And so I furnishe thy minde that it forgeate not the thinges that vvere deliuered thee before vvithout vvritinge So saithe Irenaeus Apostoli tunc Euangelium praeconiauerunt Posteà verò per Dei voluntatem illud in Scripturis nobis tradiderunt Fundamentum Columnam Fidei nostrae futurum Then the Apostles preached the Gospel And afterwarde by Goddes wil they deliuered the same to vs in vvritinge to be a Fundation and a Piller vnto our Faithe And therefore Chrysostome saithe Paulus etiam non Scriptam Praedicationem vocat Euangelium S. Paule calleth his Preachinge not vvritten by the name of the Gospel But me thinketh M. Hardinge so stoutely striuinge for the bare name of Traditions should better haue Learned S. Hieromes lesson touchinge the same Thus he writeth vpon these woordes of S. Paule Holde the Traditions whiche ye haue learned either by Our Epistle or by Our VVoorde Quando sua vult teneri non vult extranea superaddi Whereas S. Paule wil haue his ovvne thinges to be keapte he wil haue no strange thinges thereto to be added And that S. Paule by this Woorde Traditions meante not Ceremonies or certaine Secrete vnknowen Verities but the very Substance of the Gospel of Christe as it is saide before if M. Hardinge wil not beleue vs yet let him beléeue S. Paule him selfe Thus he writeth Tradidi vobis in primis quod etiam accepi quòd Christus mortuus est pro peccatis nostris secundum Scripturas Firste I haue deliuered to you or geuen to you by Tradition the same thinge that I receiued that is that Christe died for our sinnes accordinge to the Scriptures Here by S. Paules Woordes the Deathe of Christe is called a Tradition So saithe S. Basile Hoc palà m impugnat Salutaris Baptismatis Traditionem Baptismus noster iuxta ipsam Domini Traditionem est in Nomine Patris Filij Spiritus Sancti Per ipsam Baptismi Traditionem habemus Confessionem Fidei This thinge is plainely againste the Tradition of Healtheful Baptisme Our Baptisme accordinge to the Tradition of our Lorde is in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the Holy Ghoste By the very Tradition of Baptisme wee haue the Confession of Faithe S. Cyprian saithe Vnde est ista Traditio Vtrum ne de Dominica Euangeliea Authoritate descendens an de Apostolorum Mandatis atque Epistolis veniens c. Si igitur aut in Euangelio praecipitur aut in Apostolorum Epistolis Actis continetur obseruetur etiam haec
is not hable to assure him selfe Touchinge the certainetie of this Doctrine to alleage one or twoo places out of many S. Augustine writeth thus Tale aliquid etiam post hanc Vitam fieri incredibile non est vtrùm ita sit quaeri potest Somme sutch thing he meaneth the Fire of Purgatorie to be after this Life it is not incredible And vvhether it be so or no It maie be a question Againe Quòd Spiritus Defunctorum c. ignem transitoriae Tribulationis inueniant non redarguo quia Forsitan Verum est That the Sprites of the Deade finde a Fire of transitorie Tribulation I reproue it not For Perhaps it is true Againe Siue ergo in hac Vita tantùm homines ista patiuntur siue etiam post hanc vitam talia quaedam iudicia subsequuntur non abhorret Quantum Arbitror à ratione Veritatis iste intellectus huius sententiae Therefore whether menne suffer sutch thinges onely in this Life Or els somme sutche Iudgementes folowe euen after this Life As mutche as I thinke the vnderstandinge of this sentence disagreeth not from the order of the Truthe And againe he saithe Quis sit iste modus quae sint ista Peccata quae ita impediant peruentionem ad Regnum Dei vt tamen Sanctorum amicorum meritis imperrent indulgentiam difficillimum est inuenire Periculosissimum definire Ego certè vsque ad hoc tempus cùm inde â—atagerem ad eorum indaginem peruenire non potui VVhat meane this is and what Sinnes these be whiche so lette a man from comming vnto the Kingdome of God that thei maie notwithstanding obteine Pardonne by the Merites of Holy frendes is it very harde to finde and very dangerous to determine Certainely I mee selfe notwithstandinge greate studie and trauaile taken in that behalfe coulde neuer attaine to the knovvledge of it By these it is plaine that S. Augustine stoode in doubte hereof whether there be any sutche Purgatorie Fire or no. Therefore vndoubtedly he tooke it neither for an Article of the Christian Faith for thereof it had not benne lawful for him to doubte nor for any Tradition of the Apostles Ye saie S. Augustine neuer doubted whether there were any sutche Place of Purgatorie or sutche Fire or no But onely whether the tormentes there doo satisâ—ie the Iustice of God for Sinne or no and whether the same tormentes doo by degrees diminishe the Venial Sinnes and Seculare Affections whiche the Parties carried with them or no. Notwithstandinge what shoulde any question be raised hereof Plato and Vergile and other Heathen writers from whom this Doctrine first flowed abroade woulde soone haue put you quite out of doubte Vergile hereof emongest others saithe thus Quin supremo cum lumine vita reliquit Non tamen omne malum miseris nec funditus omnes Corporeae excedunt pestes Penitusâ—ue necesse est Multa diu concreta modis inolescere miris Ergo exercentur poenis veterumâ—ue malorum Supplicia expendunt Aliae panduntur inanes Suspensae ad ventos alijs sub gurgite vasto Infectum eluitur scelus aut exuritur igni But reade you S. Aâ—gustine M. Hardinge you I saie that to vse your owne woordes are so profoundely seene in al the Doctours that ye maie boldely despise al others what so euer Reade I saie S. Augustine examine better the Places and weigh the woordes And ye shal finde that he neuer neither mentioneth nor toucheth any of these your prety fantasies but saithe plainely vvhether it be so or no it maie be a question I reproue it not For perhaps it is true And are ye so Profoundely seene in al the Doctoures Scriptures M. Harding that ye thinke there is either Fire or Water or any other Creature wherewith to satisfie the Iustice of God againste Sinne sauinge onely the Bloude of the Lambe of God that taketh awaie the Sinne of the Worlde Or thinke you that S. Augustine woulde turne vs from the Satisfaction of Christe and sende vs to séeke for any other Certainely S. Augustine him selfe saithe Valeat mihi ad Perfectionem liberationis tantùm Pretium Sanguinis Domini mei Let Onely the Price of the Bloude of my Lorde auaile me to the Perfection of my deliuerie Againe he saithe Quando aliquis se conuerterit ad Deum Prorsus illi omnia dimittuntur Nemo sit sollicitus quòd aliquid ei non dimittatur When so euer any man turneth him selfe vnto God al thinges vtterly are foregeeuen him Let noman be doubteful leste any thinge happily be not foregeeuen Chrysostome imagineth God thus to saie of a sinner Vnum tantùm requiro vt confiteatur peccata ab eis desistat Nec vltrà infero Poenam peccatis This thinge onely saithe God I require of a Sinner that he coÌ„fesse his Sinnes vnto me and leaue the same Aftervvard I laie nomore pounishemente vpon his Sinnes Likewise againe he saithe Ego Fideiubeo Si quis nostrum recedat a Peccatis ex animo verè Promittat Deo se ad illa non rediturum nihil Deum requisiturum ad Satisfactionem I wil stande bounde in Goddes behalfe If any of vs foresake his Sinnes with al his harte and make true promisse vnto God that he wil nomore returne vnto them that then God shal require nothinge els vnto Satisfaction He that knoweth not thus mutche hath no greate cause to vaunte him selfe of his profound knowledge in the Doctours But it Gods Iustice againste your sinne be fully satisfied by the Bloude of Christe If the Onely price of our Lordes Bloude haue vvrought the perfection of your deliuerie If there remaine nothinge vnforegeeuen If God require no further pounishemente What shoulde you seeke for other Satisfaction in your painted Fires and smokes of Purgatorie To conclude ye saie thus In effecte S. Augustines question is whether the Fire of Purgatorie be not double O M. Hardinge it ye were simple and meante simply ye woulde not so vainely double the pointe I beseche you what double Fire of Purgatorie meante S. Augustine Or where was he euer so double in dealinge By your double Diuinitie and Profounde knowledge in the Doctoures ye haue at the laste skilfully founde out a Double Purgatorie Fire and a Double Purgatorie Howe be it as you are nowe troubled about the Fire of your Purgatorie so were somme others of your frendes not long sithence as mutche troubled aboute the VVater Sir Thomas Moore saide and helde for certaine that in al Purgatorie there is no VVater no not one droppe And that he saide he would proue by the wordes of the Prophete Zacharie Eduxisti vinctos tuos de lacu in quo non erat Aqua Thou haste deliuered thy Prisoners out of the Doungeon wherein there is no VVater Of the other side Roffensis saith Yes there is in Purgatorie good stoare of VVater And that he saith he can
treasurie of the Popes breasâ—te it were absurde and vnreasonable Mary to saie that the Lawes reste in the Popes breaste after a certaine meaninge as hereafter shal be declared it is not altogeather beside truthe and reason But Sirs what if some meane writer or Gloser vpon the Canon Lawe speake somewhere out of square if al should be exactly tried by Scripture wil ye laie that to our charge Shal the Faithe of the Catholike Churche thereby be called in doubte and question VVe take not vpon vs to Defende al that yâ— Canonistes or SchoolemeÌ„ saie or write c. In this kinde or order be many things whiche may rather be called rules of maners then Principles or such as we terme Axiomata of our Faithe These although they be founde written in the Scripture for asmuche as they haue benne commaunded by an occasion and for some cause they maie for cause and occasion and as we finde in C. Lector for necessitie by Gods depute and Vicare be supplied holpen expounded And if the case so require he in the same for a certaine cause with a certaine persone for a certaine time with certaine circumstances maye dispense by the same spirite they were firste founded and instituted withal and with the same intention to witte for some speciall good and furtherance of Godlinesse Suche administration of Gods Lawe and suche dispensation thereof as of a precious Treasure not free or at Libertie and pleasure but an euen iuste and good dispensation they do attribute to Gods Vicare whome this Defender calleth the Popes Parasites Pages and Clawbackes him selfe a very Page Slaue and clawbacke to the Diuel The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge ye rome and wander goe masket as a man that were benighted and had loste his waie In somme cases ye saie the Pope maie dispense against Goddes VVoorde In somme cases he maie not Faine woulde ye for shame somewhat limite restraine his Immoderate Authoritie but ye knowe not where to laie the boundes Ye make smal accompte of your Schoole Doctoures and Canonistes that is to saie of the Principal Pillers of your Catholique Churche and thinke them not woorthy to be your guides How be it your laboure cannot al be loste For they wil thinke as light of you But for as mutche as ye saie they flatter not the Pope nor be his Pages or Parasites but speake roundely to him and tel him his owne it shal not be mutche amisse to herken a litle what they saie One of them saithe thus Papa potest Dispensare contra Ius Naturale The Pope maie Dispense againste the Lavve of Nature An other saith Papa Dispensat contra Canones Apostolorum The Pope Dispenseth against the Canons or Rules of the Apostles An other saithe Papa potest mutare formam Verborum in Baptismo The Pope maie change the fourme of VVoordes in Baptisme An other saithe Priuilegium dari potest contra Ius Diuinum The Popes Priuilege maie be graunted againste the Lavve of God An other saithe Papa ex Maxima Causa potest Dispensare contra Nouum TestamentuÌ„ The Pope vpon a very great cause maie dispense againste the Nevve Testamente An other saith Papa potest Dispensare de omnibus praeceptis veteris Noui Testamenti The Pope maie Dispense for any commaundemente of the Olde or Nevve Testamente An other saithe Papa potest Dispensare contra Epistolas Pauli The Pope maie Dispense againste the Epistles of S. Paule And somewhat to qualifie the outrage of the mater an other saithe Papa potest Dispensare contra Ius Diuinum in Particulari non in Vniuersali The Pope maie Dispense against the Lavve of God in Particulare not in General And againe Papa potest tollere Ius Diuinum ex Parte non in Totum The Pope maie abolishe the Lavve of God in parte but not in vvhole An other saithe Martinus Papa 5. Dispensauit cum quodam qui acceperat Germanam suam in Vxorem Pope Martine the. 5. dispensed with a man yâ— had taken to VVife his ovvne Sister Whether this reporte be true or false I referre mée selfe to the credite of the Authoure An other saith Papa potest Dispensare cum omnibus Personis nisi cum Patre Matre The Pope maie dispense vvith al Personnes touchinge Marriage sauinge onely vvith Father and Mother to Marrie or to be Married to theire Children An other saith Papa potest supra Ius Dispensare Et de Iniustitia potest facere IustitiaÌ„ Sententiam quae nulla est facere aliquam Et de nihilo facere aliquid The Pope maie dispense aboue the Lawe the Pope of VVronge maie make Right The Pope of no Sentence maie make a Sentence The Pope of nothinge maie make somme thinge The cause hereof as an other saith is this Quia Papa potest excepto Peccato quicquid Deus ipse potest Sinne onely excepted the Pope maie doo vvhat so euer God him selfe maie doo An other saithe Papa habet Authoritatem declarandi Scripturas ita vt non liceat oppositum tenere vel opinari The Pope hath Authoritie so to expounde and to declare the Scriptures that it maie not be lawful for any man to hold or to thinke the Contrarie For Cardinalis Cusanus saithe as it saide before Scripturae ad tempus adaptatae sunt variè intellectae ita vt vno tempore secunduÌ„ currenteÌ„ Vniuersalem ritum exponaÌ„tur mutato ritu iterum sententia mutetur The Scriptures are applied vnto the time and are diuersly derstanded so that at one time they are taken accordinge to the Vniuersal Currente order whiche order being changed the meaninge of the Scripture is changed too An other demaundeth a question Vtrùm Papa ex Plenitudine Potestatis possit omnia Whether the Pope by the Fulnesse of his Power maie doo al thinges An other saithe Si totus mundus sententict contra Papam videtur quòd standum esseâ— sententiae Papae If al the VVorlde vvoulde geue sentence contrarie to the Pope yet it seemeth vvee ought to stande to the sentence of the Pope These M. Hardinge by your Iudgemente are neither Pages nor Parasites but good sadde and earnest frendes sutche as loue roughly and plainely to vtter theire minde without flatterie This doubtelesse is it that Daniel so longe before Prophesied of him Dabitur illi os loquens grandia He shal haue a mouthe geuen him vtteringe greate and presumptuous maters For in déede notwithstandinge al this glorious glitteringe of painted Authoritie yet one of the Popes owne menne saithe Papa non potest facere de quadrato rotundum The Pope caÌ„not make a square thing rouÌ„de S. Bernarde saith An Regula non concordat cum Euangelio vel Apostolo Alioqui Regularam non est Regula quia non est recta Dooth not the Rule agree with the Gospel or with the Apostle Otherwise that Rule is no Rule at al for it is crooked it
it appeareth by youre reckening ye make no greate accoumpte of it Christe saie you praied for Peter Ergo the Romaine Faithe can neuer faile Fewe children woulde willingly make sutche Argumentes Ye presume very mutche of the Simplicitie and Ignoraunce of youre Reader For thinke you that Christe praied onely for Peter and for no body els Or thinke you that Christes praiers tooke place in none other of al the Apostles but onely in Peter Awake for shame and shake of these dreames Christe him selfe saithe O Father I praie nor onely for these but also for them that by their woorde shal beleue in me And S. Augustine thus reporteth the same praier as it is alleaged before Ego rogaui Paitem pro vobis ne deficiat Fides vestra I haue praied vnto my Father not for Peter onely but for you that youre Faithe maie not faile Againe he saithe Nunquid pro Petro rogabat Pro Iohanne Iacobo non rogabat Did Christe praie for Peter And did he not praie for Iohn and Iames Certainely Origen saithe as likewise I haue before alleged Omnia quaeque priùs dicta sunt quaeque sequuntur velut ad Petrum dicta sunt omnium Communia Al the thinges that either paste before or folowe after as spoken vnto Peter are common vnto al the Apostles But S. Paule saithe vnto the Romaines Youre Faithe is spoken of throughout the worlde And S. Cyprian saithe The agreeing with the Bishop of Rome was the Vnitie of the Catholique Churche And yet it maie please you to be remembred by the waie that the same S. Cyprian reproued Cornelius and Stephanus bothe Bishoppes of Rome and tolde them they were bothe deceiued and therefore woulde not agree vnto them Neuerthelesse hereof ye conclude thus Ergo the Holy Ghoste hath signified that the Churche of Rome cannot erre It pitieth me M. Harding in youre behalfe to see into howe streite and miserable holes ye are faine to creepe For what if the Faithe and the Constancie of the Romaines in olde times for the Nobilitie of that Empiere and Cittie were then published throughout the whole worlde Yet where did the Holy Ghoste euer tel you that therefore the Churche of Rome shoulde neuer erre By what Woorde By what Promisse By what Reuelation Yee saie The Faithe of the Romaines was heard of throughoute the whole Worlde So was the Greate capitol there So was the bewtie of their Princely buildinges Whiche notwithstanding are nowe made smoothe and euen with the grounde So likewise is it written of Hierusalem De Sion exibit Lex Verbum Domini de Hierusalem The Lawe shal comme foorth from Sion and the Woorde of God from Hierusalem So in the Cittie of Antioche the Faithful were firste called Christians And therefore Chrysostome calleth the same Cittie Caput totius orbis The Head of the whole worlde Thus was Eusebius Samosatensis called Regula Fidei The Rule and Standerde of the Faithe Thus was Athanasius called Orbis oculus Fundamentū Fidei The Eie of the world and the Fundation of the Faithe Would ye hereof conclude M. Harding that therfore the Faithe of these Churches can neuer faile Ye knowe that al this notwithstandinge the Churches as wel of Hierusalem and Antioche as also of Asia Syria Graecia and of al the Easte are nowe subiecte to the Turke and scarcely a fewe leafte there that dare to professe the name of Christe What a fonde Paradise is this to saie bicause ye had once the Faith of Christe therefore nowe ye can neuer erre Sutche a fantastical Paradise had they built vnto them selues that cried out in olde times euen as you do now The Temple of God The Temple of God VVee are the Children of Abraham But who so euer wel cōsidereth the storie of the time shal soone finde y◠then they cried moste The Temple of God when they had moste shamefully abused and defaced the Temple of God and that then they claimed moste to be called the Children of Abraham when they had forsaken bothe the Faithe and life of Abraham and as Christe saithe vnto them were becomme the Children of the Diuel Sutche a fantasie had they that saide Non peribit Lex à Sacerdote Nec consilium à Sapiente Nec Verbum à Propheta The Lawe shal not departe from the Prieste Nor Counsel from the Wise Nor the VVoorde from the Prophete But God saith vnto them Obstupescent Sacerdotes Prophetae terrebuntur Lex peribit à Sacerdote Consilium à Senioribus Nox vobis erit pro Visione tenebrae pro Diuinatione Youre Priestes shal be amased and youre Prophetes shal be at their wittes ende The Lawe shal perishe from the Prieste and Counsel shal wante in the Elders Ye shal haue Nighte in steede of a Vision and Darkenesse in steede of Prophesie S. Paule saithe vnto the Galathians Ye beganne wel who hathe thus bewitched you that yee shoulde not obeie the Truthe S. Peter saithe As there were False Prophetes emongest the people in olde time euen so emong you there shal be False Prophetes bringing in Sectes of Perdition Of sutche a chaunge the Prophete Esaie cōplaineth Quomodò facta est Meretrix Ciuitas Fidelis Howe is this Faithful Cittie now become an Harlot Deceiue not thus youre selfe M. Harding with vaine hope Harken rather to the voice of our Lorde Put nothing to his Worde take nothing from the same turne neither to the Right hande nor to the Leafte So shal ye be sure ye shal not erre The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 2. For our partes if wee could haue iudged Ignoraunce Error Superstition Idolatrie mennes Inuentions and the same commonly disagreeing with the Holy Scriptures either to please God or to be sufficient for thobteining of Euerlasting Saluation or if we could ascertaine our selues that the Woorde of God was written but for a time onely and afterwarde againe ought to be abrogated and put away or els that the Saienges Cōmaundementes of God ought to be subiecte to mans wil that whatsoeuer God saithe and commaundethe excepte the Bishop of Rome wil and Commaunde the same it must be taken as voide and vnspoken If we coulde haue brought our selues to beleue these thinges we graūt there had benne no cause at al why we shoulde haue leafte these mennes Companie M. Hardinge God forbid that either ye or any Christen man shoulde iudge that ignorance errour superstition idolatrie mennes inuentions contrarie to the Scriptures either pleased God or to be sufficient to saluation Bicause ye laie this to the catholique Churche we can saie no lesse of you but that ye be false liers and diuelishe slaunderers And who teacheth that Gods worde was written but for a time onely ‡ That his commaundementes be subiecte to mans wil ‡ That Gods saienges and preceptes be voide except the Bishop of Rome ratifie them Here would I saie vnto you at least fie for shame but that I thinke I should preuaile
that he heareth loseth the thinge that he heareth Therefore the Pope him selfe in his Pontifical géeueth this special Charge vnto the Reader Stude Lectiones Sacras distinctè apertè proferre ad Intelligentiam aedificationem Fidelium Endeuoure thee selfe to pronounce the Holy Lessons or Chapters distinctely and plainely not to a Spiritual doumbenesse but to the vnderstandinge and profite of the Faitheful Touching the Praiers that the simple people maketh in a tongue vnknowen Christe saithe This people honoureth me with theire lippes But theire hartes are far from mee The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 2. In these thinges haue they set al theire Religion teachinge the people that by the same God maie be duely pacified Spirites be driuen awaie and mens consciences wel quieted M. Hardinge VVhat shal I saie to al this but that ye lie I would saie as the manner is Sauing your worshippes but that your often and vnshamefaste lieing hath quite taken awaie from you al opinion of honestie Al Christes Religion whiche we professe consisteth not in these thinges neither by these be mennes consciences quieted By certaine of these euil and impure sprites be driued awaie in deede VVhich here by sundry Aunciente recordes and Testimonies I woulde declare to be moste true were it not wel yenough knowen by daily experience But as for you whereas neither Breade nor VVater nor Crosse driueth you awaie it semeth ye are worse to be coniured then the deuil himselfe Many of your secte Catholike Princes haue founde so stubborne as they could yet neuer ridde theire Countries of them but by coniuration of fire The B. of Sarisburie Yée saie yée ye neuer sought to quiet mennes Cōsciences by Oile Water Palmes c. And therefore ye stande vp a tipps toe and in your familiare manner crie oute yee lie For shorte trial hereof one example maie suffice in stéede of many Augustine Steuchus one of your special and woorthy Doctoures saithe thus Aquas Sale Orationibus Sanctificamus vt ad earum Aspersum nostra deleātur delicta We halowe VVater with Salte and Praiers that by the Sprinkelinge thereof our sinnes maie be foregeeuen Reade your owne Pontifical and ye shal finde in the halowinge of your VVater your Asshes your Palmes your Candels c. this clause euermore in the ende Vt sint nobis ad Salutem Animae Corporis That they maie be to vs to the Saluation of Body and soule Whereas in the ende ye vaunte your selfe of your Crueltie and so pleasantly make Sporte with the Bloude of your Brethern take it not for il if I answeare you with the Woordes of Salomon Viscera impiorum crudelia The bowelles of the wicked be alwaies cruel Therein M. Hardinge standeth your greateste puissance If ye were no better armed with Fire and Svverde then ye be with Scriptures and Doctoures no wise man woulde greately feare your force As for vs wée maie answeare you now as S. Cyprian sommetime answeared the Heathens Nobis ignominia non est pati à Fratribus quod passus est Christus neque vobis gloria est facere quod fecit Iudas It is no shame for vs to suffer of our Brethren the same violence that Christe suffered neither is it any praise for you to doo the same thinge that Iudas did Tertullian saith vnto your Fathers Crudelitas vestra gloria nostra est Semen est Sanguis Christianorum Your crueltie is our Glorie The Bloude of Christians is the seede of the Gospel I praie God al that innocente Bloude that hath benne sheadde in this cause be not required at your handes in the daie of Wrathe and at the declaration of the iuste iudgemente of God The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 1. For these lo be the oriente colours and Pretious sauours of Christian Religion these thinges dooth God looke vpon and accepteth thē thankefully these must cōme in place to be honoured must put quite awaie the Institutions of Christe of his Apostles And like as in times paste when wicked Kinge Ieroboam had taken from the people the right seruing of God had brought thē to woorship the Golden Calues leste perchaunce thei might afterward change theire minde and slippe awaie geatinge them againe to Ierusalem to the Temple of God there hee exhorted them with a longe tale to be stedfast saieinge thus vnto them O Israel these Calues be thy Goddes In this sorte commaunded your God you shoulde woorship him For it shoulde be wearisome and troublous for you to take vpon you a iourney so farre of yeerely to goe vp to Ierusalem there to serue and honoure your God Euen after the very same sorte when these menne had once made the Lawe of God of none effecte through theire owne Traditions fearinge that the people shoulde afterwarde open theire eies fal an other waie and shoulde sommewhence els seeke a surer meane of theire Saluation Iesu howe often haue they cried out This is the same woorshippinge that pleaseth God and whiche hee straitely requireth of vs and wherewith he wil be turned from his wrathe that by these thinges is conserued the Vnitie of the Churche that by these al sinnes be cleansed and consciences quieted and that who so departeth from these hath leafte vnto him selfe no hope of Euerlastinge Saluation For it were wearisome and troublous saie they for the people to resorte to Christe to the Apostles and to the Anciente Fathers and to obserue continually what theire wil and commaundement should be This ye maie see is to withdrawe the people of God from the Weake Elementes of the worlde from the leauen of the Scribes and Phariseis and from the Traditions of menne It were reason no doubte that Christes Commaundementes and the Apostles were remoued that these theire diuises might comme in place O iuste cause I promise you why that Anciente and so longe allowed Doctrine shoulde be nowe abolished and a newe Forme of Religion be brought into the Churche of God M. Hardinge It shoulde haue becomme Scoggin Patche Iolle Harry Pattenson or VVil Sommer to haue tolde this tale mutche better then your Superintendentships And if ye woulde nedes haue plaied the parte your selues it had ben more conuenient to haue donne it on the stage vnder a vices cote then in a booke set abrode to the worlde in defence of al your newe Englishe Churche Ye shal neuer make any reasonoble man beleue your scoffinge tale VVe esteme litle your railinge comparison with your spiteful woordes and so mutche deuilishe villany The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 2. And yet whatsoeuer it be these menne crie stil that nothing ought to be changed that mens mindes are wel satisfied here withal that the Churche of Rome the Churche whiche cannot erre hath decreed these thinges For Syluester Prieriàs saith that the Romishe Churche is the Squier and Rule of Truthe that the Holy Scripture hath receiued from thence Authoritie and Credite The Doctrine saith he
Wée are not gonne from the Churche of God M. Hardinge Wée are gonne onely from you that haue so vnreuerently abused the Churche But ye feele good ease yée saie and are wel reliued by our departure as to vse your homely comparisons a sick body is reliued by a purgation God of his mercie graunt that yée maie likewise be purged of al the reste So shal yée féele more ease and be better reliued S. Hierome saithe Hebraei dicunt quòd ea nocte qua egressus est Israel ex Aegypto omnia in Aegypto Templa destructa sunt siue terrae motu fiue ictu fulminum Spiritualiter autem dicimus quòd egredientibus nobis ex Aegypto errorum Idola corruant omnis Peruersarum Doctrinarum cultura quatiatur The Rabines or Hebrewe Doctoures saie that the same night that Israel departed out of Egypte al the Idolatrous Temples in Egypte were destroied either by Earthquake or by Lighteninge But here of wee learne in a Spiritual sense that when wee departe out of Egypte that is to saie from the companie of Idolaters the Idolles of erroure falle to the grounde and al the honoure of false Doctrine is shaken downe Sutche reliefe M. Hardinge wée trust yée shal finde by our departure Beda expoundinge these woordes of the Apocalyps Comme foorthe from her my people and be not partetakers of her sinnes saithe thus Inducit discessionem quae est ruina Babylonis cùm enim Loth discesserit à Sodomis Sodomae funditùs tollentur S. Iohn speaketh of the departure whiche is the ruine and fal of Balylon For when Loth shal departe out of Sodome then shal Sodome vtterly be ouerthrowen Againe he saithe Post haec audiui vocem Alleluia Laus Gloria Virtus Deo nostro Haec nunc ex parte dicit Ecclesia Tunc autem perfectè dicet cùm discessio facta fuerit After this I hearde a voice Alleluia Praise and Glorie and Power be to our God This songe the Churche in parte singeth already But then shal shee in deede and perfitely singe it when departure shal be made from Antichriste or Babylon The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 1. For if they saie It is in no wise lawful for one to leaue the felowship wherein he hathe benne brought vp they maie aswel in our names vpon our heades likewise condemne the Prophetes the Apostles and Christe him selfe For why complaine they not also of this that Loth went quite his waie out of Sodome Abraham out of Chaldee the Israelites out of Egypte Christe from the Ievves and Paule from the Phariseis For excepte it be possible there maie be a lawful cause of Departinge wee see no reasone why Loth Abraham the Israelites Christe and Paule maie not be accused of Sectes and Seditions aswel as others M. Hardinge Yet bringe ye nothing to the purpose Your proufes be so weake and hange so euil togeather that we maie wel tel you whiche Irenaeus obiected to Heretikes that ye make a rope of sande VVe saie not it is in no wise lawful for one to leaue the felowship wherein he hath benne brought vp But contrary wise if the felowship be naught and wicked euery one is bound to eschewe it ▪ Depart from Babylon my people and be not ye partakers of her sinnes saith the heauenly voice to S. Iohn Therefore the examples ye bringe helpe nothinge your cause Loth went out of Sodome Abraham of Chaldea the Israèlites of Egypte Paule from the Phariseis by Gods special warninge VVhere ye saie Christe went from the Iewes onlesse ye referre it to his steppinge aside from them for a while ye shoulde rather haue saide the Iewes went from Christe But whereto perteineth this Though ye were so malicious as to compare the Catholike Churche to Sodome to Chaldea to Egypte to the Iewes and Phariseis yet I wene ye are not so proude as to compare your selues to Loth to Abraham to Gods peculiar people to Paule to Christe himselfe These departinges we allowe and God required them yours we blame and God detesteth The B. of Sarisburie Wée compare not our selues M. Hardinge neither with Loth nor with Abraham nor with Paule leaste of al with Christe him selfe But wée humbly submitte our selues both in life and in Doctrine to be guided by theire Examples And thus I truste we maie lawfully doo without iuste note of presumption S. Chrysostome saithe Data est tibi potestas diuinitùs imitandi Christum vt possis illi similis fieri Noli expauescere hoc audiens Timēdum enim tibi potiùs est si similis illi fieri negligas Thou haste power geeuen the from God to folowe Christe that thou maiste be like vnto him Be thou not afraide to heare this thinge Thou haste more cause to feare if thou refuse to be like vnto him Likewise saithe the Anciente Father Origen Si quem imitati volumus propositus est nobis Christus ad imitandum If wee desire to folowe any man Christe is set before vs that wee shoulde folowe him But if it be so Provvde a parte in Religion and Life to folowe Christe what is he then that claimeth to him selfe Christes Authoritie and calleth him selfe euen by the name of Christe You know of whom it is written Papa potest quicquid Christus ipse potest The Pope can doo what so euer Christe him selfe can doo Yee knowe who is wel contented to heare him selfe thus saluted Touchinge Primacie thou art Abel touchinge Gouernemente thou art Noē touchinge Patriarkship thou art Abraham touchinge Order thou art Melchisedech touchinge Dignitie thou art Aaron touchinge Authoritie thou art Moses touchinge Iudgemente thou art Samuel touchinge Power thou art Peter touchinge Anointinge thou art Christe These woordes I trowe M. Harding maie sommewhat séeme to sauoure of Pride The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 2. And if these menne wil needes condemne vs for Heretiques bicause we doo not al thinges at theire Commaundemente whom in Goddes Name or what kinde of menne ought they themselues to be taken for whiche despise the Commaundemente of Christe and of the Apostles M. Hardinge Our frailtie concerninge life we accuse and lamente and commende our selues to Gods infinite mercie Touchinge belefe and necessarie doctrine of faithe raile ye at vs neuer so mutche we neither despise the Commaundementes of Christe nor the ‡ traditions of the Apostles The Apologie Cap. 14. Diuision 3. If we be Schismatiques bicause we haue leaft them by what name then shal thei he called themselues whiche haue foresaken the Greekes from vvhom they firste receiued theire Faithe foresaken the Primitiue Churche foresaken Christe himselfe and the Apostles euen as if Children shoulde foresake theire parentes M. Hardinge VVho so euer departe from the Catholike Churche they be Schismatikes ye haue departed from the Catholike Churche of these nine hundred yeeres ergo ye be schismatikes The firste proposition ye wil not denie The seconde your selues confesse the conclusion then muste
nedes be true If we saie the same blame vs not Neither saie we that onely but also that ye are Heretikes VVhereby the measure of your iniquitie is increaced The same crime ye woulde impure vnto vs if ye wisie howe If ye haue no more to laie to our charge but that we haue foresaken the Grekes ye shal not be offended with the world if it geue vs the title name and estimation of Catholikes as heretofore For remember your selues we haue not forsaken he Grekes but the Greekes in some pointes haue forsaken vs. By the name of vs alwaies I vnderstande the Catholike Churche euen the Holy Romaine Churche whose faithe we professe and with whom we communicate And howe standeth it with your lerninge that we receiued the faithe first from the Grekes For where ye saie we haue forsaken the Primitiue Churche yea Christe himselfe and the Aposâ—les ye haue tolde vs this so often that now we take them to be but wordes of course and a common blaste of your railing sprite The Romaine Churche receiued the faithe from Ierusalem and not from Grece as the reste of the world did according to the Prophecie De SioÌ„ exibit lex c. As for the land of Britaine our natiue country if the faithe were firste brought hither by Ioseph of Arimathaea and his felowes as by old tradition we are told then was the Church here first planted by faithful Iewes and not by Grekes This beinge true we maruel what ye meane to charge vs with forsaking the Grekes specially where ye saie we firste receiued the faith from them â–ª VVhiche is no truer then that we receiued our Englishe language from them The B. of Sarisburie It were no shame for you M. Hardinge to confesse that the Churche of Rome firste receiued her Faithe from the Churches of Graecia Neither are they so vtterly voide of Learninge that haue saide the same Rather I marueile what Learninge can leade you to sate the contrarie S. Augustine saithe Terra Graecorum vnde vbique destinata est Fides The Land of Graecia from whence the Faithe into al places was sente abroade Againe he saithe Radix Orientalium Ecclesiarum vnde Euangelium in Aphricam venit The Roote of the Easte Churches from whence the Gospel came into Aphrica S. Chrysostome saithe vnto the people of Antioche Christianorum nomen â–ª velut ex quodam Fonte hinc incipiens omnem mundum inundauit The name of Christians beginninge firste from this Cittie of Antioche as from a Springe hath flowed ouer the whole worlde The Bishoppes of the Easte wrote thus vnto Iulius the Bishop of Rome Ad Ecclesiam RomanaÌ„ ab Oriente Praedicatores Dogmatis adueneruÌ„t The Preachers of Christian Doctrine came froÌ„ that Easte to the Churche of Rome Likewise S. Basile saith The Gospel of the Kingedome springing vp first in the Church of Graecia was froÌ„ thence published abroade into al the world Eusebius saithe Lucis virtus Sacrae Religionis Lex beneficio Dei quasi è sinu Orientis profecta cunctum simul Orbem Sacro Iubare illustrauit The power of the Light and the Lawe of Holy Religion by Goddes benefite springinge out as it were from the bosome of the Easte hath shined ouer the whole worlde togeather with a blessed beame The Emperoure Iustinian saithe Constantinopolis Religionis Fidei Mater perpetua Constantinople is the Euerlastinge Mother of Faithe and Religion And likewise againe Sacrosancta CoÌ„stantinopolitanae Ciuitatis Ecclesia Mater Pietatis nostrae Christianorum Orthodoxae Religionis omnium The moste Holy Churche of the Cittie of Constantinople the Mother of oure Holinesse and the Mother of al Christians of the Catholique Faithe In like sorte the Churche of Constantinople euen vntil this daie intituleth it selfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Churche of Constantinople the Mother and Maistresse of al that be Catholique To be shorte if ye wil not beleue any of these yet at leaste yee maie beleue your owne Felowes The Bishop of Bitonto in youre late Chapter at Trident vttered these woordes as it maie wel appeare with lusty courage Eia igitur Graecia Mater Nostra cui id torum debet quod habet Latina Ecclesia O therefore oure Mother Graecia vnto whom the Latine Churche or the Churche of Rome is beholden for al that euer she hath These thinges M. Hardinge beinge true wee marueile what shoulde moue you to denie that yee first receiued the Faithe from the Churche of Graecia Touchinge the mater it selfe it is written thus in youre owne Councelles Si Graeci per quandam Scissuram diuiduntur à Latinis ita Latini à Graecis Et ideo videtur quòd Si Graeci debent dici Schismatici propter huiusmodi Diuisionem eadem ratione Latini praetereà Graeci magis seruant Antiquas Consuetudines Apostolorum Discipulorum Christi in Barbis c. If the Grekes by a certaine Diuision be sundred from the Latines euen so be the Latines sundred from the Greekes And therefore it seemeth if the Greekes in respecte of this Diuision ought to be called Schismatiques that then the Latines also ought so to be called in like case Furthermore the Greekes doo more duely keepe the Olde Customes of the Apostles and of Christles Disciples touchinge Beardes c. then doo the Latines The Apologie Cap. 15. Diuision 1. For though those Greekes who this daie professe Religion and the name of Christe haue many thinges corrupted amongest them yet holde thei stil a great number of those thinges whiche they receiued from the Apostles They haue neither Priuate Masses nor mangled Sacramentes nor Purgatories nor Pardones And as for the titles of Highe Bishoppes and those glorious names they esteeme them so as whosoeuer he were that woulde take vpon him the same and woulde be called either Vniuersal Bishop or the Head of the Vniuersal Churche they make no doubte to cal sutche a one both a passinge proude man and a man that woorketh despite againste al the other Bishoppes his Brethren and a plaine Heretique M. Hardinge As ye haue oftentimes belied vs so nowe ye belie the poore Greekes So little are ye able to saie somewhat and therein to saie truthe For they haue Masse commonly without companie to communicate with the Prieste whiche ye cal Priuate Masse so is it al Greece ouer so is it in Asia in Syria in Assyria in Armenia and where so euer the Religion of Christe is professed As amonge the Greekes in Venis I my selfe and diuerse of oure countrie menne haue seene it commonly practized Like wise praie they al for the dead and thinke them to be relieued by the praiers oblations almose and deedes of charitie doone for them by the liuinge VVhiche minde and opinion implieth that faith whiche the Churche holdeth of purgatorie But though saie ye those Greekes haue many thinges corrupted yet holde they stil a greate number of those thinges whiche they
you haue eies to sée them are no smal Miracles S. Chrysostome saith The Conuersion of the vvorlde is a Miracle S. Augustine saithe Modò Caro Coeca non aperit oculos Miraculo Domini Et Cor Coecum aperit oculos Sermone Domini Nowe adaies the Blinde fleashe openeth not her eies by the Miracle of our Lorde Put the Blinde harte Openeth his eies at the VVoorde of our Lorde And againe Modò Aures Corporis surde◠non aperiuntur Sed quà m multi habent clausas Aures Cordis quae tamen Verbo Dei penetrante patescant Nowe adaies the deafe Eares of the Body be not opened yet many there are that haue the Eares of their harte shut vp whiche Eares not withstandinge are opened by entringe of the VVoorde of God Therefore wèe maie rightly saie to you with other woordes of S. Augustine Quisquis adhuc Prodigia vt credat inquirit Magnum est ipse prodigium qui mundo credente non credit Who so euer yet requireth Miracles to bringe him to the Faithe is him selfe a greate Miracle that the worlde beleeuinge remaineth stil in vnbeliefe Where as the Phariseis saide of Christe Lette him nowe comme downe from the Crosse and we wil beleue him S. Hierome saithe vnto them Etiamsi de Cruce descenderet similiter non crederetis Yea although he shoulde comme downe from the Crosse yet woulde ye not beleeue him But it were a worlde to beholde the Glorious Countenance of your Miracles Your Crosses can speake youre Idolles can goe your Images can lighte their owne Lampes your Holy VVater is hable to calme the Sea to chase awaie Mise and to make barren Wemen to conceiue If yée doubte hereof conferre with M. Cope one of your owne Louanian companie or with that Woorthy Prelate the Bishop of Verona your Holy Father Lipomanus I am ashamed to remember that you are not ashamed euen nowe in these daies to publishe in Writinge How be it sutche Religion sutche Miracles S. Hierome saithe Mendacium Antichristi Christi Veritas deuorabit The Truthe of Christe shal deucure and consume the Falsehedde of Antichriste The Apologie Cap. 16. Diuision 2. And as wee know bothe Christe him selfe al good menne heretofore haue donne we haue called home againe to the Original and firste Fundation that Religion whiche hathe benne fowly neglected and vtterly corrupted by these menne For wee thought it meete thence to take the Paterne of Refourminge Religion from whence the grounde of Religion was firste taken Bicause this one Reasone as saithe the moste Auncient Father Tertullian hathe greate force againste al Heresies Looke vvhat soeuer vvas firste that is trevve and vvhat soeuer is later that is corrupte Irenaeus oftentimes appealed to the Oldest Churches whiche had benne nearest to Christes time whiche it was harde to beleue had benne in erroure But why at this daie is not the same common regard consideration had Why returne wee not to the Paterne of the Olde Churches Why maie not we heare at this time amongest vs the same saieinge whiche was openly pronounced in times paste in the Councel at Nice by so many Bishoppes Catholique Fathers and no body once speakinge againste it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Holde stil the Olde Customes M. Hardinge Ye saie muche in your owne commendation but lies be no proufes Ye haue not called Religion home againe to the Original and firste Fundation as ye saie but ye haue quite ouerthrowen all true Religion from the fundation As for your apishe noueltie ye haue taken the paterne thereof from Satan auctour of diuision the auncient ennemie of Christe and of his true religion VVee admitte the saieinge of Tertullian though it be not altogeather as ye alleage it that this reason hath greate force against all heresies VVhat so euer was firste that is true what so euer is latter that is corrupt Of the Blessed Sacramente Christe saide firste c. Ye woulde seeme to be faine that we folowed the aduise of Irenaeus VVe are contente with all our hartes And with Irenaeus we appeale to that tradition whiche is from the Apostles whiche as he saieth is kepte in the Churches by Priestes that succeded them VVith Irenaeus leauinge other Churches whose successions of Bishoppes it were a longe woorke to rehearse we require to haue recourse for triall of our Faithe to the Tradition of doctrine of the Romaine Churche whiche he termeth Greatest Oldest best knowen to al founded and set vp by the twoo moste glorious Apostles Peter and Paule VVe appeale to the Faithe of that Churche taught abrode in the world and by successions of Bishoppes brought downe vnto vs. For to this Churche saithe Irenaeus must all the Churche of Christe repaire where so euer it be for that it is the chiefe of all and for that the tradition of the true doctrine which the Apostles leaft behinde them is there faithfully kepte VVherefore if ye would after the councell of Irenaeus resorte to Rome for decision of the controuersies that be bet wixte you and vs and would them to be tried by that sense of doctrine which hath continewed by successions of Bishops euen from Peter to Pius the fourth now Pope and would stande to the auctoritie of that See Apostolike al strife were ended we should be at accorde But we haue litle hope ye will folowe this godly counsel of S. Irenaeus that blessed Martyr whose body your brethren the Huguenotes of Fraūce vilanously burned at Lions Anno Dom. 1562. after it had rested there thirten hundred yeeres and more The B. of Sarisburie The Preeminence that Irenaeus geueth to the Churche of Rome standeth in Consente and Vnitie and Agreemente of Doctrine not in Superioritie or Gouernmente ouer al the worlde For proufe whereof yee maie vnderstande that Irenaeus in the same place likewise specially noteth the Churche of Smyrna planted by Polycarpus the Churche of Ephesus planted by S. Iohn and generally sundrie other Greate Churches planted by menne of Apostolical Dignitie vnto whiche he willeth vs in like māner to repaire not onely to y◠Churche of Rome The Emperoure Theodsius willeth his Subiectes to conforme them selues in Doctrine not onely to the Romaine Bishop but also either to Nectarius the Bishop of Constantinople or to Timotheus the Bishop of Alexandria or to Pelagius the Bishop of Laodicea or to Diodorus the Bishop of Tharsus or to Amphilochius the Bishop of Iconium or to Optimus the Bishop of Antioche or to Helladius the Bishop of Caesarea or to Otreius the Bishop of Melite or to Gregorius the Bishop of Nice or to Terennius the Bishop of Scythia or to Marmarius the Bishop of Martianopolis Vnto al and euery of these notable greate Churches y◠Emperoure willeth al other inferioure Churches to repaire By sutche Examples the Fathers in the Councel of Chalcedon were contented to directe their Faithe For thus they brake out in a general shoote Omnes
And therefore was Origen called Magister Ecclesiarum The Enformer or Maister of the Churches S. Basile Canon Fidei The Rule of the Faithe Eusebius Samosatensis Regula Veritatis The Standarde of the Truthe Athanasius Orbis oculus The eie of the worlde And in doubteful Cases they were as diligently sought vpon as the Pope Here by the waie it were a woorthy mater to consider somme of the Profound and Learned Resolutions that wee haue receiued from the See of Rome Augustine the Italian Monke whom somme haue called the Apostle of England demaunded of Pope Gregorie by waie of greate Counsel whether a Woman with Childe might be Baptized or no and howe longe afterwarde it might be lawful for her to comme to Churche Bonifacius the Apostle of Germanie demaunded the like questions of Pope Zacharie whether laies Davves Storkes Beauers Otters Hares and VVilde Horses be mannes meate or no what order were to be taken with Man or Horse hauinge the Fallinge sickenesse At what time of the yeere it maie be lawful or wholesome for folkes to eate Bacon and if a man liste to eate it Ravve howe old it ought to be before he eate it What maie be donne if a Prieste haue a blacke in his eie Who maie hallovve Oile who maie weare the palle At what time in what place in what sorte ouer or vnder openly or secretely it maie be lawful to weare it To these and other like doubteful and profounde questions the Pope hath geuen out his Answeares and that in sutch graue and solemne sorte as if no other Creature vnder Heauen bisides his Holinesse were hable to vnderstande sutche highe Mysteries There felle out sommetime an Odious quarrel bitwéene the Thomist s and Scotistes whether the Blessed Virgine were conceiued in sinne or no. The one side saide Yea the other cried Nay There were Learned menne of bothe sides Parties grewe The Schooles were enflamed the worlde was troubled No Conference no Doctoure no Councel was hable to quiet the mater and to make them frendes The Scotistes alleged for them selues the Councel of Basile The Thomistes cried out the Councel of Basile was disorderly summoned and therefore vnlawful In the middes of this heate Pope Sixtus tooke vpon him to be Iudge bitwéene them and to determine the bottome of y◠Cause In conclusion when al the worlde lookte to be resolued and satisfied in the question the Pope Commaunded bothe the Thomistes and the Scotistes to departe home and to dispute no more of the mater but to let al alone so leafte them as doubteful as he founde them A greate contention fel out bitwéene them of Ratispone in Germanie and the Abbie of S. Denise in France whether of them had the whole Body of S. Denise for that either parte saide bare the worlde in hande they had the whole To Rome they wente The Pope sate sadly in Iudgemente and examined theire Allegations and grewe to conclusion and in the ende gaue his aduised Definitiue Sentence that either parte as wel thei of France as also the others of Germanie had the vvhole Body of S Denise and that who so euer woulde saie nay shoulde be an Heretique Of sutche substance and certainetie are the Oracles of your See of Rome Somme of your frendes haue saide Veritas per Christum Cathedrae alligata est non personis Christe hath fastened his Truthe not to the Popes personne but to his Chaire Meaninge thereby that the Pope what so euer he decree or saie sittinge in S. Peters Chaire can neuer erre And thus by this Doctours Iudgemente wee are taught to géeue credite rather to the Popes Chaire then to the Pope Yet neuerthelesse the same Irenaeus whom yée haue here alleged openly reproued Pope Victor and S. Cyprian like wise reproued Pope Steuin for that thei thought notwithstandinge their Chaire they were in erroure Brasmus speaking of the Answeare of Pope Innocentius vnto the Councel of Carthage saith thus In hac Epistola Dictionem Ingenium Eruditionem tali Praesule dignam cogimur desiderare In this Epistle wee misse bothe Eloquence and Witte and Learninge meete for sutche a Prelate S. Ambrose saithe In omnibus cupio sequi Ecclesiam Romanam Sed tamen nos Homines sensum habemus Ideo quod alibi rectiùs seruatur nos rectè custodimus I desire in al thinges to folowe the Churche of Rome Howe be it wee our selues for that wee be menne haue vnderstandinge and Iudgemente too Therefore what so euer is better keapte in other places wee doo wel to keepe the same But touchinge the state of Rome that nowe is Arnulphus saide openly in y◠Councel of Remes Cùm hoc tempore Romae nullus sit vt fama est qui Sacras Literas didicerit qua fronte aliquis illorum docere audebit quod non didicerit For as mutche as nowe a daies as it is reported there is none in Rome that hath Learned the Scriptures with what face dareth any of them to teache vs that thinge that he him selfe neuer learned It is not sufficiente to saie The Pope sitteth in Peters Chaire As Antichriste maie sitte in place of Christe so maie Iudas sitte in place of Peter S. Hierome saithe Bethel quae priùs vocabatur Domus Dei postquam Vituli in ea positi sunt appellata est Bethauen id est Domus inutilis Domus idoli Bethel that before was called the House of God after that Hieroboams Goldē Calues were sette vp in it was called Bethauen that is to saie a House vnprofitable and the House of an Idole Therefore wée thinke it better to examine trie the groundes of your Religion by the VVoorde of God that is one and Vniforme and enduereth for euer then by your touche of Rome that is so vncertaine and so mutable and so often hathe deceiued vs. S. Cyprian saithe Si ad Diuinae Traditionis Caput Originem reuertamur cessat error humanus If wee returne to the Heade and Original of the heauenly Tradition which is the VVoord of God al humaine errour geueth place Touching the reste of your néedelesse talke our Brethren in France whom in your pleasante manner yée cal Huguenotes burnte not the Body of Irenaeus They knewe he was a Blessed Martyr of God and his Body sommetime the Temple of the Holy Ghoste Without any reproche or villanie either donne or meante to that Holy Father if they burnte any thinge whiche also maie wel be doubted they burnte onely an Idole that you had so vnreuerently sette vp againste the Glorie of God Chrysostome saithe Ioseph moriens air Ossa mea efferetis hinc vobiscum Ne Aegyptij memores beneficiorum eius Corpus Iusti haberent in occasionem Impietatis Ioseph lieinge in his death bedde saide vnto his Children and Neuewes yee shal carrie my bones with you foorthe out of Egypte Leste the Egyptians remembringe the good