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A81745 The Quakers vvisdom descendeth not from above or a brief vindication of a small tract, intituled, The Quakers folly made manifest to all men, as also of its authour, from the exceptions made against it, and aspersions cast upon him. In a pamphlet called The voice of wisdom, &c. published by George Whithead, Quaker. / By Tho. Danson, M.A. late fellow of Magd. Coll. Oxon. And now minister of the Gospel at Sandwich in Kent. Danson, Thomas, d. 1694. 1659 (1659) Wing D217; Thomason E2255_4; ESTC R210142 19,984 42

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the Father who merits and makes satisfaction for our sins The Spirit gives Faith to lay hold on Christ for Justification and seals the souls interest when obtained I have proved that we are not justified by the work of Grace or good works in the discourse upon Justification Quakers Folly p. 15. c. And so that the work of Grace cannot be meant in that place if by Spirit must be meant the meritorious cause of Justification as you assert I do not divide the Grace of God from the Spirit But I affirm that the G ●ce wrought in us by the Spirit is no meritorious cause o● Justification As for that passage justified fre●ly by his Grace which is in Rom. 3.24 It intends not grace 〈◊〉 us but the grace or favour of God in giving Christ for our propitiation v. 25. As for your accusation of ignoran●e I value it not but look upon it as a justifiable ground 〈◊〉 account you a blasphemer for 't is an implicite denying of what I expresly affirmed viz Persons in the Godhead T. D. p. 16. The Apostle asserts ●he holinesse of mans nature as a work of the Spirit confo●ming it to the Law to be the meritorious cause of our f●e●dom from sin G.W. Ans And yet he hath d●al d good works of obedience to be a deserving cause o● justification What is not justification a freedom from in Acts 13.39 And where doth he prove the holinesse o● mans nature is a merito●ious cause of our freedom from sin T D. R ply I see G. W. thou art so far from perfect that thou wantest moral honesty Thou shouldst have added what I did in the same period to make up my sense but mark withal 't is not that holinesse of mans nature which is in us but in Christ And then thou might'st have answered thy own Questions The righteousnesse of Christs humane nature or active obedience as we usu●lly call it in opposition to passive is asserted to be the cause of our freedom from sin and death Rom. 8.2 But not righteousnesse inherent in the same nature as it subsists in our persons As for Acts 13.39 I find nothing to the purpose it asserts not your Popish Doctrine that justification is sanctification or that the righteousnesse whereby we are justified is infused or inherent The words are And by him all that beli●ve are justified from all things from which ye could not be justified by the Law of Moses And it proves that by Faith men are freed from the guilt of all their sins And what of that T. D. sai●h Rom. 8.4 5. It impo●ts the end for which God sent Christ that his righteousnesse might be imputed to us as if it had been inherent in our selves G. ● Ans If the Apostle had not meant the righteousnesse of the Law fulfilled in their own persons he would not have said fulfilled in us neither would he have counted Christs righteousnesse inherent in themselves if he had not counted it ●● h●m nor needed he to speak of the ●ighteousnesse of the Law being ●o be fulfilled in Christ as if it had not been fulfilled in him T. D. R●●ly Bold man Who art thou that teachest the Apostle how to speak who canst not speak sense thy self as appears by the middle clause of this thy answer If thou didst understand thy self thou wouldst say that the Apostle would not account that righteousnesse in the Saints which was not in them Nor indeed do●s the Apostle so mistake but he asse●ts that the righteousnesse of Christ redounds to their benefit as if it had been their own inherent righteousnesse As the principal is discharged from the debt when the surety paid it though the cred●tor cannot nor does say that the principal did make payment Nor does the Apostle speak of Christ's fulfill●ng the Law as i● he had not done it but he tells of what Christ ha●h already done and to what end viz that we might have the benefit of it as if it had been our personal act T. D. Supposed S. F. to mean when he acknowledged degrees among Believers that some of these Bel●evers have a mixture of sin with their Grace G.W. Ans This is a false supposition grace is pure the mixture of sin is in that which goeth from the grace T.D. Reply Reader If thou dost not judge this latter clause in the answer to be unintelligible non-sense thy judgment and mine must part her● Mixture doth suppose at least two ingredients but what ●hat is which goes f●om grace to mingle with sin I cannot divine He should mean that when grace decreas●s corruption increases and gathers strength As for my words they intended but that sin and grace are in the same subj●ct or in each faculty of the soul not successively but together at the same time which Paul expresses by anot●er Law in his members rebelling against the Law of his mind Rom 7.23 Reader G.W. quotes a passage p. 18. l. 17. of my Book wherein he saies I wronged S. F. But I ref●r you to the place where you may read it and judge as thou seest cause T. D. saies p. 19. Conscience in the Saints being but in part cleansed as a witness it te●tifies falshood ●o them also G. W. Ans This man laies falshood and badness to the charge of the Saints Consciences ●he●eas they witn●ssed truth to them Sanctification throughout 1 Thes 5.23 and holinesse perfect●d in the fear of God T. D. Reply I do still affirm that no faculty in the Saints ●s sanctified wholly but only in part And that place you bring 1 Thes 5.23 is a distribution of the subjects of Grace it intends not pe●fection of deg●●es in each subject And if no faculty ●he● no● C●nscience As for 2 Cor. 7 1. which you f●●m ●o quo●● y●● w●ong that Scripture The words are not 〈◊〉 s●● p●●f●cted but perf●cting holiness And the Apostle ●o not suppos● th●ir holinesse to be perfected but exho●● them to end●avour after degrees of Grace nearer perfection which he expresses by cleansing from all filthinesse of flesh and Spirit in the former clause of the verse which supposes that there was filthiness remaining in both and then in Conscience for that is partly intended under Spirit See Quakers folly p. 19. T. D. saith p. 21. As Christ was made sin for us so are we the righteousness of God in him but the former was by imputation not inherence and therefore so the latter G.W. Ans If our being made the righteousness of God in Christ be but like Christ's being made si● for us then this Pr. might as well say that we shall have no righteousness in us at all for Christ was made s●n for us who knew no sin T.D. Reply There is not the same reason G.W. for saying the one as for saying the other For 2 Cor. 5. ult asserts such a proportion as I mentioned but no Scripture such a one as you vainly suppose Yet this I say that as there was no necessity of inherent
David which was the Royal Fam●●y ●●ould be rais●d to through Faith in Christ And so they give us two sizes of strength and for●●tude and not one only as G●● interpre●s them Some shall be as David others as God Now look as Omnipotency is not Literally promis●d to Davids House but by an ●x●●sse of spe●ch or Hyp●●bole a greater measure of strength than others against bodily enemies so nor can we understand it sp●ritua●ly b●t of a greater measure of spiritual strength against ●p●●itu●l enemies To conclude this discourse I shall not refuse to imitate an adversary though I shall be more ingenuous than to wrong h●m as he hath done me but shall b●i●fly sum up his principles and assertions with the place in his Book where they are to be found The Spirit was eff ctual among the Gentiles who had not the Letter of the Word p. 39. The works of God which true Believers witnesse are perfect p. 18. He meaning my self would have the Believers like the P●●ests who sin in the best of their performances as they conf sse p. 18. Th●t our good works are the meritorious or deserving cause of our Justification p. 19. G. W. finds fault with me for holding that the Scriptures are the Word of God and the only standing Rule of Faith and life p. 29. Those Teachers that want infallib●lity are out of the Truth p. 33. G. W. calls it Ignorance in me to call the Spirit the third Person in the Trinity p. 22. FINIS A NARRATIVE Reader MY Rejoynder to G.W. having been finished a good while since as the date of the Epistle will inform thee and the Bookseller having thought fit to delay the publication after it was off the Presse upon a consideration not necessary to be mentioned I have been perswaded by some worthy Friends to annex a Narrative the materials whereof lay by me and are of undoubted credit To most of them thou shalt have the Witnesses names persons of much integrity and where they are wanting in the rest the Witnesses not judging it advisable in some respects to be publickly named I shall be accountable to any man that desires it for a punctual proof Thou canst not be so much a stranger in England as not to know how frequently the Quakers decry the present Ministry with their Doctrine and Worship under the Notion of Antichristian But how little reason have they so to do considering how much themselves do symbolize with Antichrist particularly in that grand Doctrine of Justification by works which as they hold in the Principle they reduce it to Practise Witnesse Mr. Davis Min. of Dover For one of them lately at Dover when he came to die upon the question put to him made answer that he expected salvation only by his own works and not by Christ And dying men may usually be presumed to speak their hearts And I am out of doubt that they are acted by the antichristian Faction A Gentleman of good credit assured me that he met with an English Jesuit in London the first Lords day in June last one who was bred in Cambridge and had been formerly of his acquaintance who after some shynesse to be known at length confessed that he came over to propagate the Romish Faith and told him that there was a good honest people called Quakers whom we jeer'd at that did their work at the second hand and he boasted much of the numbers that turned Catholicks immediatly or medily by becomming Quakers And another Gentleman that came this Spring from St. Omars did avouch that he saw the Jesuits there about four a Clock every evening throw off their Gowns and put on aprons and betake themselves to the exercise of Handy-craft callings some plaid the Shoomakers others sate at the Loom others kill'd and dress'd sheep and they did not stick to boast that under the disguise of such callings working as Journeymen and changing place as they listed they served the Romish Church And the Head of the Colledge told him that England never was in so fair a way of return to the Romish See since it broke off as now And what hopes the Papists can have unlesse from the encrease of Quakers I leave Reader to thy determination And the truth is the Quakers now d●clare their intentions to propagate their perswasions by the sword whereas they were w●nt to pretend to so much meekness peaceablenesse that they would bear neither staffe nor sword At ●●●t Meeting of the Quake●s in Hurst-Peir-point in Sussex he that undertook to be the Speaker cald out to the Min● of the Parish who then accidentally passed by saying We will have you all down for now our day is come and another Quaker in the Parish of Nuthurst in the same County did say to a Godly person of good quality in that Parish that he no more cared to kill one of the Priests as he stiled the Ministers then he would to kill a dog And another Quaker way-laid the Minister of Covewold a very worthy and reverend man at his return from a Fast and justled him upon the high way as he kept it having his Wife behind him and drew out a sword which he had by his side about half way which was a shrewd presumption that he intended the Minister mischeif but that some Neighbours that came from the Fast coming up to them prevented it And they do usually give out threatning speechs against the Ministry and their Friends Mr. Wingfield One Instance you may take as it was formally attested to me under the hand of a Godly minister of a Town within one mile of Sandwich I do testifie that Luke Howard of Dover Quaker did say in my hearing on the 25 day of July 1659. upon the rode near Dover Castle that it was revealed to him by the eternal God that the Priests shall be destroyed and by the people who are called Quakers In testimony whereof I set my hand Aug. 3. 1659. Will. Wingfield Min. at Word And in a late Pamphlet call'd a Word of advice to the Souldiers by E.B. Quaker p. 2. he speaking to the Souldiers of the Ministers uses this passage Oh give the Priests bloud to drink for they are worthy I my self read the whole Book through and can therefore attest it upon personal knowledge And what affronts these wretches offer to the Worship of God is notoriously known On the Lords day being the 18 of Sept. 1659. one Will. Naylor Brother to James Naylor a Quaker came into the Savoy Church when Mr. Hooke was in the Pulpit preaching and made such a bellowing noise that it seemed to be rather the Devil speaking within him than his own natural voice insomuch that the Minister was necessitated for a time to hold his peace and many of the people were sadly affrighted at the dreadfulnesse of the noise that some ran one way some another to secure themselves from the danger which they apprehended was near them This is testified by
for his perfection and uprightnesse v. 8. was the occasion of the Devils desiring leave of God to afflict him v. 11. and of Gods grant that his words might be found true v. 12. T.D. p. 12. A Believers person with his works are accepted with God though his works be not perfect G.W. Ans Here he would have believers like the Priests who sin in the best of their performances as they confesse But I say the Believers works are wrought in God and God works them in them and these works of God are perfect T.D. Rep●y As for our confeossin 't is agreeable to Scripture Eccles 7.20 There is not a just man upon earth that doth good and sinneth not i. e. that sinneth not in doing good Exod 28.38 In●quity of holy things is there spoken of Duties which are holy for the matter are in●quity for the manner of pe●formance Your argument doth no more conclude for the perfection of Grace than it does that every child should be a man the first day of his birth for that is one of Gods works as well as Grace As for Saints they may be said to be perfect in regard of parts as a child is a perfect man 1 Thes 5.23 Sanctified in soul and body and spirit and in regard of their aims and intendments but not as to degrees of Grace Sin and Grace in this life are together in the same subj●ct as Esau and Jacob in th● same womb As for the name of Priests which throughout you give me and other Ministers of Christ I count it no disparagement however you intend it seeing Christ is called by the Holy Ghost the High Priest of our Profession Heb. 3 1. The answer of G. W to Eccles 7.20 is no other than what M. Fish r gave which is v●ry absurd and not worthy any further reply see Qu●k ●s Folly p. 13. T.D. We the Saints are one body with them in Heaven and have the same title with th m in possession p 14 38. G.W. Ans This confutes his former words for they that are one body with them in Heaven are members of the Body of Christ which is perfect and its members c●m●leat ●ol 2.10 Eph. 3 15 T D. Reply The Body of Christ is not yet perfect for the e are great numbers of elect belonging to it yet u bo n. Christ gives a commission to preach and a promise of b●●ssing to the Apostles and their successours M●t 28.19 20. And the Apostle saies that Pastors and Teachers are for the edifying of the Body of Christ till we all come in the unity of the Faith c. Eph. 3 12 13. Put both places together and they inform us that Christs Body is not built up i. e. all the Elect not converted and so not actual members of Christs body for such men are by Faith till the end of the world As for Col. 2.10 't is plain enough that the Apostle calls the Saints compleat in reference to the Doctrine of Christ which shewed them all things necessary to salvation so that they needed not the addition which natural reason humane tradition or Judaical ceremonies could make As for circumcision we find expresly that it was urged as necessary to salvation Acts 15 1. This the Apostle denies They are also said to be compleat in Christ in respect of Ordinances and outward priviledges as particularly of Baptism which rendred ci●cumcision uselesse because it signified the same thing which circumcision did in a more large and emphatical manner v. 11 12. As for Eph. 3.15 Ther 's nothing in that v. to his purpose but I suppose he means v. 19 That ye might be filled with all the fulness of God Fulnesse of God intends not equality but quality a divine and spiritual fulnesse And the Apostle praies that they m●ght be filled with it all and so they should be in Heaven but he asserts not that either they were or should be filled in this life QUESTION 3. Concerning Justification T.D. VVHereas S. Fish ● spoke of our good work being a m●● to ●ou cause of our justification this P●iest hath M●●l● much ado to p ove th●t S. F. 〈◊〉 a rank Papist and ●●i●h our good wo●ks are but imperfectly good and Isa 64.6 All our righteousn●ss●s are as filthy rags G. A●s S. F. never affirme● that imperfect works and the righteousnesse which is as il hy rags do dese●ve Just●fication as this P●● hath w●●nged him but good works wh●ch are the fulfilling of th ●aw T.D. Reply Whether I have w●●nged S. F I leave to the Readers judgment that shall peruse Qu●kers Folly p. 14 ●5 I urged against him ●●r though our evil works did cond●mn yet ou● g●●d work● could not justifie because none of ou● good wor●●●n this life are perfect and so not the fulfi l●ng of the Law as evil works are the violation or breaking of the Law And to prove the imp●rfection of our righteousnesse I brought Isa 64 6. To which G.W. hath nor nor indeed can ans●er 'T is an expresse place The Chu ch c●●par●s all her righteousnesses to the garments of a per●on legally unclean which by the Law were unclean and to be washed because his body had touched them T.D. hath confessed p. 15. that ●ood works which are the fulfilling of the Law deserve salvation and that the desert of obedience arises from the dignity of the Subject by which it is performed G.W. Ans So then this makes for what S.F. declared for here it appears then that obedience to God is deserving T.D. Reply I did not directly affirm that good works which are the fulfilling of the Law deserve salvation but that from the rule of contraries which Mr. Fisher urged we might so argue For upon supposition that any meer man could fulfil the Law yet he could not be justifi●d unlesse he had undergone the penalty of his former disobedience and so made reparations to the Justice of God for damages sustain'd And again though I asserted the desert of obedience from the dignity of the Subject yet withal I affirmed that the Subject must be an infinite person and one from whom no obedience is due Quakers Folly p. 15. T D. gives the explication of 1 Cor. 6.11 Where by the Spirit of our God is interpreted of the Spirits application i● referring to Just fication or else it may relate to Sanctification spoken of in the former clause G.W. Ans He would divide the Spirit of God from the Name of Jesus when as his Name and Spirit are one And where doth he prove that justified by the Spirit which he ignorantly calls the third Person in the Trinity is not the work of Grace Here he would divide the Grace of God from the Spirit for the Saints were just●fied freely by his Grace which was one with the Spirit T. D Reply Though Jesus and the Spirit are one God yet they have distinct operat●ons or manner of working about our Justification 'T is Jesus alone and not the Spirit nor