bellarmine_n we_o can_v be_v certain_a whether_o we_o fulfil_v or_o not_o and_o consequent_o we_o can_v be_v certain_a of_o our_o grace_n and_o justice_n and_o he_o say_v these_o place_n be_v so_o manifest_a that_o our_o adversary_n can_v deny_v something_o to_o be_v requisite_a on_o our_o part_n for_o though_o say_v he_o they_o deny_v the_o remission_n of_o sin_n to_o depend_v upon_o the_o condition_n of_o work_n or_o our_o penance_n faith_n or_o other_o act_n to_o be_v the_o cause_n or_o merit_n of_o justification_n yet_o they_o grant_v they_o to_o be_v requisite_a and_o that_o without_o they_o a_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v this_o be_v bellarmine_n discourse_n wherein_o he_o do_v neither_o confess_v any_o good_a of_o your_o haeretique_n nor_o any_o way_n allow_v or_o approve_v your_o say_n as_o you_o will_v make_v one_o think_v but_o bring_v your_o own_o confession_n against_o you_o and_o even_o by_o so_o much_o as_o you_o confess_v though_o that_o be_v far_o from_o enough_o overthrow_v another_o error_n of_o you_o to_o wit_n your_o vain_a confidence_n and_o certainty_n of_o your_o justification_n now_o then_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v not_o this_o honest_a deal_n in_o you_o to_o take_v a_o word_n speak_v by_o bellarmine_n for_o one_o purpose_n and_o to_o transfer_v it_o to_o another_o far_o different_a and_o again_o in_o favour_n of_o yourself_o to_o allege_v those_o word_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n as_o his_o confession_n which_o he_o allege_v only_o for_o you_o and_o to_o take_v it_o so_o as_o if_o his_o allegation_n be_v a_o approbation_n or_o allowance_n of_o they_o whereas_o he_o bring_v they_o but_o in_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o objection_n against_o yourselves_o and_o there_o withal_o plain_o declare_v the_o difference_n between_o your_o error_n and_o our_o faith_n that_o you_o will_v not_o have_v faith_n or_o work_v to_o be_v any_o cause_n or_o merit_n of_o justification_n nor_o justification_n to_o depend_v upon_o work_n as_o upon_o a_o condition_n whereas_o we_o teach_v all_o the_o contrary_a which_o though_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o stand_v to_o prove_v there_o because_o that_o be_v not_o a_o place_n for_o it_o yet_o he_o plain_o show_v that_o to_o be_v his_o belief_n 3._o the_o second_o place_n of_o bellarmine_n you_o say_v be_v touch_v justification_n by_o faith_n only_o wherein_o you_o tell_v we_o he_o conclude_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n say_v that_o either_o a_o man_n have_v true_a merit_n or_o he_o have_v not_o if_o he_o have_v not_o he_o be_v dangerous_o deceive_v if_o he_o have_v true_a merit_n he_o lose_v nothing_o by_o not_o respect_v they_o but_o put_v his_o trust_n in_o god_n only_o but_o in_o this_o again_o as_o before_o and_o every_o where_o else_o you_o still_o line_v it_o egregious_o for_o here_o you_o make_v as_o if_o bellarmine_n do_v allow_v of_o your_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o whereas_o he_o confute_v the_o same_o large_o and_o learned_o for_o 13._o 1._o lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr iustif_a cap._n 1._o whole_a chapter_n together_o begin_v his_o disputation_n thus_o hominem_fw-la non_fw-la sola_fw-la fide_fw-la iustificari_fw-la 5._o argumentis_fw-la principalibus_fw-la demonstrare_fw-la conabimur_fw-la we_o will_v endeavour_v by_o 5._o principal_a argument_n to_o demonstrate_v that_o a_o man_n be_v not_o justify_v by_o faith_n only_o how_o then_o do_v he_o conclude_v with_o your_o reform_a church_n he_o conclude_v against_o they_o &_o you_o tell_v we_o he_o conclude_v with_o they_o and_o this_o place_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o he_o be_v above_o 50._o leaf_n from_o that_o where_o he_o begin_v to_o treat_v of_o justification_n by_o faith_n and_o be_v a_o argument_n for_o a_o far_o different_a matter_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v most_o safe_a for_o a_o man_n though_o he_o may_v put_v some_o trust_n in_o his_o own_o good_a work_n yet_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o uncertainty_n he_o have_v of_o his_o own_o justice_n and_o danger_n of_o vain_a glory_n not_o to_o put_v any_o trust_n in_o they_o but_o all_o in_o god_n this_o late_a part_n whereof_o there_o be_v no_o controversy_n between_o we_o and_o protestant_n bellarmine_n prove_v by_o the_o reason_n here_o bring_v because_o if_o he_o have_v not_o true_a merit_n he_o deceive_v himself_o but_o if_o he_o have_v and_o yet_o trust_v not_o in_o they_o he_o lose_v nothing_o by_o not_o trust_v in_o they_o and_o what_o be_v all_o this_o good_a sir_n humphrey_n to_o your_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o and_o consequent_o all_o that_o you_o have_v say_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n in_o this_o section_n to_o the_o antiquity_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o doctrine_n or_o the_o contrary_a of_o we_o not_o one_o word_n to_o any_o such_o purpose_n on_o either_o side_n and_o therefore_o all_o be_v but_o vain_a brag_n wherewith_o you_o conclude_v hereupon_o that_o our_o best_a learned_a confess_v that_o many_o principal_a point_n of_o their_o own_o religion_n yea_o many_o article_n of_o faith_n be_v neither_o ancient_a safe_a nor_o catholic_a wherein_o you_o speak_v ignorant_o in_o distinguish_v principal_a point_n of_o religion_n from_o article_n of_o faith_n for_o though_o every_o proposition_n which_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la be_v not_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n yet_o every_o principal_a point_n be_v and_o therefore_o some_o give_v that_o for_o the_o reason_n why_o we_o call_v a_o point_n a_o article_n to_o wit_n because_o it_o be_v a_o principal_a point_n but_o this_o be_v but_o to_o show_v that_o you_o can_v speak_v two_o word_n sound_o without_o falter_v and_o yet_o you_o must_v be_v show_v man_n the_o way_n forsooth_o 4._o have_v then_o say_v all_o you_o can_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n you_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v not_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_n which_o we_o assume_v that_o make_v good_a the_o catholic_a doctrine_n neither_o the_o opinion_n of_o learning_n or_o multitude_n of_o our_o side_n that_o must_v outface_v the_o truth_n for_o say_v your_o our_o saviour_n do_v special_o note_v the_o member_n of_o his_o body_n by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o little_a flock_n as_o if_o the_o paucity_n of_o true_a believer_n be_v the_o special_a character_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o for_o our_o learned_a you_o bring_v a_o say_n of_o s._n paul_n to_o the_o corinthian_n 1.26_o 1._o cor._n 1.26_o not_o many_o wise_a according_a to_o the_o flesh_n not_o many_o mighty_a 25._o mat._n 11_o 25._o not_o many_o noble_a and_o another_o out_o of_o s._n matthew_n i_o thank_v thou_o father_n because_o thou_o have_v hide_v these_o thing_n from_o the_o wise_a and_o prudent_a and_o have_v reveal_v they_o to_o babe_n and_o then_o you_o will_v we_o to_o reflect_v upon_o our_o own_o church_n and_o we_o shall_v find_v the_o mark_n of_o a_o false_a church_n foretell_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v after_o the_o work_n of_o satan_n with_o all_o power_n and_o sign_n and_o lie_v wonder_n and_o after_o a_o little_a of_o this_o rave_a talk_n you_o conclude_v with_o s._n augustine_n that_o miracle_n be_v not_o now_o to_o be_v expect_v thus_o you_o troll_v it_o out_o sir_n humphrey_n where_o first_o to_o begin_v with_o i_o may_v ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o that_o which_o the_o title_n of_o your_o section_n promise_v to_o wit_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o your_o doctrine_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n but_o that_o it_o seem_v prove_v but_o dry_a matter_n you_o take_v yourself_o the_o freedom_n without_o regard_n to_o the_o consequence_n of_o your_o discourse_n to_o talk_v of_o the_o church_n of_o miracle_n strong_a delusion_n and_o other_o such_o stuff_n good_a for_o nothing_o but_o to_o fill_v paper_n but_o this_o very_a discourse_n for_o the_o matter_n itself_o show_v your_o wit_n for_o you_o can_v have_v say_v nothing_o more_o to_o the_o advantage_n of_o our_o cause_n nor_o more_o to_o the_o disadvantage_n of_o your_o own_o for_o you_o show_v we_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n your_o own_o a_o false_a one_o which_o to_o be_v so_o i_o shall_v show_v not_o in_o my_o own_o word_n but_o in_o s._n augustine_n who_o give_v account_n what_o it_o be_v that_o keep_v he_o in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o church_n reckon_v these_o very_a thing_n which_o you_o make_v so_o little_a account_n of_o as_o miracle_n multitude_n of_o people_n and_o the_o very_a name_n of_o catholic_a and_o i_o may_v say_v also_o learning_n 4._o aug._n count_v ep_v fundam_fw-la cap._n 4._o for_o answer_v that_o epistle_n of_o the_o manichee_n call_v epistola_fw-la fundamenti_fw-la he_o begin_v his_o discourse_n thus_o in_o catholica_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la ut_fw-la omittam_fw-la sincerissimam_fw-la sapientiam_fw-la etc._n etc._n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o most_o sincere_a wisdom_n wherein_o by_o mention_v this_o wisdom_n in_o such_o manner_n every_o man_n see_v that_o to_o he_o it_o be_v a_o motive_n though_o he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o urge_v
thou_o be_v not_o to_o be_v the_o author_n but_o the_o keeper_n not_o the_o institutor_n but_o a_o scholar_n not_o leadinge_n but_o follow_v so_o as_o by_o timothee_n the_o whole_a church_n be_v understand_v as_o the_o same_o author_n say_v or_o especial_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o pastor_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o church_n creat_v not_o any_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o teach_v only_o that_o which_o she_o have_v learn_v of_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 6._o from_o which_o follow_v that_o other_o thing_n which_o i_o mean_v to_o tell_v the_o knight_n for_o his_o learning_n which_o also_o i_o touch_v before_o in_o a_o word_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o point_n of_o doctrine_n before_o in_o controversy_n and_o undefined_a come_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n the_o doctrine_n be_v not_o therefore_o new_a because_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la or_o matter_n of_o faith_n now_o which_o it_o be_v not_o before_o as_o he_o most_o false_o and_o fond_o suppose_v for_o a_o undoubted_a truth_n and_o upon_o this_o his_o own_o idle_a fancy_n build_v many_o goodly_a argument_n like_v so_o many_o castle_n in_o the_o air_n for_o out_o of_o this_o he_o think_v it_o to_o follow_v that_o we_o vary_v in_o our_o doctrine_n that_o because_o forsooth_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n now_o the_o fide_fw-la which_o be_v not_o before_o and_o whereof_o doctor_n do_v dispute_v which_o see_v we_o may_v not_o now_o doubt_v of_o therefore_o the_o faith_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n alter_v but_o this_o show_v nothing_o but_o the_o poorness_n of_o his_o judgement_n for_o by_o this_o he_o may_v prove_v that_o the_o sun_n as_o it_o rise_v high_a and_o high_o and_o by_o spread_v his_o beam_n give_v light_n in_o some_o place_n att_o noon_n where_o it_o do_v not_o in_o the_o morning_n that_o therefore_o it_o be_v change_v in_o itself_o than_o which_o what_o can_v be_v more_o absurd_a 7._o and_o that_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o sun_n 6.9_o cant._n 6.9_o appear_v by_o that_o place_n of_o the_o canticle_n quae_fw-la est_fw-la ista_fw-la quae_fw-la progreditur_fw-la quasi_fw-la aurora_fw-la consurgens_fw-la pulchra_fw-la ut_fw-la luna_fw-la electa_fw-la ut_fw-la sol_fw-la terribilis_fw-la ut_fw-la castrorum_fw-la acies_fw-la ordinata_fw-la who_o be_v she_o that_o go_v forward_o as_o the_o morning_n rise_v fair_a as_o the_o moon_n choose_v as_o the_o sun_n terrible_a as_o a_o order_a army_n of_o tent_n which_o word_v no_o man_n ever_o doubt_v to_o be_v literal_o understand_v of_o the_o church_n even_o then_o as_o the_o sun_n may_v go_v spread_v his_o beam_n more_o and_o more_o with_o out_z increase_n or_o change_v of_o it_o own_o light_n in_o itself_o so_o may_v the_o church_n go_v more_o and_o more_o spread_v the_o beam_n of_o her_o divine_a faith_n with_o out_o increase_v or_o alteration_n of_o the_o faith_n in_o itself_o and_o as_o the_o sun_n beam_n may_v shine_v in_o a_o valley_n or_o room_n of_o a_o house_n where_o it_o do_v not_o shine_v before_o so_o may_v the_o church_n spread_v the_o light_n of_o her_o faith_n show_v such_o or_o such_o a_o point_n to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n which_o before_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o be_v or_o which_o though_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n in_o itself_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o us._n 8._o for_o more_o declaration_n whereof_o i_o may_v yet_o bring_v another_o more_o scholarly_o example_n which_o be_v of_o the_o principle_n of_o several_a science_n which_o be_v to_o be_v the_o premise_n in_o demonstrative_a argument_n of_o those_o science_n in_o which_o principle_n or_o premise_n be_v contain_v diverse_a truth_n which_o may_v be_v draw_v out_o of_o they_o by_o many_o several_a conclusion_n one_o follow_v of_o another_o these_o conclusion_n be_v truth_n in_o themselves_o before_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o appear_v unto_o i_o till_o i_o see_v the_o connexion_n they_o have_v with_o the_o premise_n and_o how_o they_o be_v contain_v in_o they_o and_o by_o the_o many_o several_a conclusion_n which_o be_v so_o draw_v the_o truth_n of_o those_o principle_n and_o premise_n do_v more_o show_v itself_o but_o not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o change_v in_o itself_o thereby_o even_o so_o we_o say_v in_o the_o prime_a principle_n of_o our_o faith_n reveal_v immediate_o to_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n and_o by_o they_o deliver_v unto_o the_o church_n be_v contain_v all_o truth_n which_o any_o way_n belong_v to_o our_o faith_n and_o whereby_o the_o church_n have_v in_o succeed_a age_n destroy_v several_a heresy_n as_o they_o have_v rise_v without_o create_v or_o coin_v new_a faith_n or_o alter_v the_o old_a but_o out_o of_o the_o old_a ground_n and_o premise_n draw_v those_o conclusion_n which_o destroy_v new_a heresy_n and_o show_v they_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o ancient_a faith_n and_o in_o that_o manner_n the_o church_n have_v grow_v and_o increase_v in_o knowledge_n by_o degree_n and_o shall_v still_o go_v grow_v and_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n 6._o greg._n moral_a lib._n 9_o cap_n 6._o as_o show_v s._n greg._n his_o discourse_n upon_o those_o word_n of_o job._n qui_fw-la facit_fw-la arcturum_fw-la &_o oriana_n &_o hyadas_n etc._n etc._n where_o he_o say_v thus_o vrgente_n mundi_fw-la sine_fw-la superna_fw-la scientia_fw-la proficit_fw-la &_o largius_fw-la cum_fw-la tempore_fw-la excrescit_fw-la as_o the_o world_n draw_v to_o a_o end_n the_o heavenly_a knowledge_n profit_v and_o with_o time_n increase_v wherein_o also_o she_o resemble_v our_o b._n saviour_n her_o chief_a lord_n and_o heavenly_a spouse_n who_o though_o in_o grace_n and_o knowlegde_v he_o never_o receive_v the_o least_o increase_n from_o the_o first_o instant_n of_o his_o conception_n 2.52_o luc_n 2.52_o yet_o the_o scripture_n say_v after_o proficiebat_fw-la sapientia_fw-la &_o aetate_fw-la &_o gratia_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o homines_fw-la to_o wit_n because_o he_o show_v it_o more_o in_o his_o word_n and_o action_n 9_o this_o be_v far_a confirm_v by_o the_o manner_n and_o practice_n which_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o father_n ever_o observe_v in_o and_o out_o of_o counsel_n in_o prove_v or_o define_v point_n of_o faith_n to_o wit_n by_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n belief_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o search_n whereof_o the_o holy_a church_n join_v humane_a industry_n with_o god_n holy_a grace_n and_o assistance_n for_o when_o any_o question_n or_o doubt_v of_o faith_n arise_v particular_a doctor_n several_o dispute_v and_o write_v thereof_o then_o if_o far_o need_n require_v it_o the_o holy_a church_n gather_v together_o her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n in_o a_o council_n to_o examine_v and_o discuss_v the_o matter_n more_o full_o as_o in_o that_o first_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n 15.6_o act._n 15.6_o whereof_o the_o scripture_n say_v conueneruntque_fw-la apostoli_fw-la &_o seniores_fw-la videre_fw-la de_fw-la verbo_fw-la hoc_fw-la the_o apostle_n ad_fw-la ancient_n assemble_v to_o consider_v of_o this_o word_n the_o pastor_n come_v so_o together_o and_o have_v the_o presence_n of_o our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o promise_n and_o his_o holy_a spirit_n out_o of_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a scripture_n and_o tradition_n join_v therewith_o the_o authoritye_n and_o interpretation_n of_o holy_a father_n and_o doctor_n out_o of_o praecedent_a time_n she_o do_v infallible_o resolve_v and_o determine_v the_o matter_n not_o as_o new_o but_o as_o ancient_a orthodox_n and_o derive_v from_o her_o forefather_n make_v that_o which_o be_v ever_o in_o itself_o a_o divine_a truth_n so_o to_o appear_v unto_o we_o that_o now_o we_o may_v not_o make_v far_a question_n thereof_o 10._o seq_n vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 27.28.29_o &_o seq_n and_o this_o be_v the_o common_a doctrine_n deliver_v by_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n i_o think_v it_o not_o amiss_o somewhat_o far_o to_o confirm_v and_o authorise_v the_o same_o by_o a_o excellent_a discourse_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o ancient_a father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n not_o recite_v his_o very_a word_n because_o it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o but_o only_o the_o substance_n which_o be_v this_o have_v prove_v by_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la out_o of_o s._n paul_n that_o a_o pastor_n priest_n preacher_n or_o doctor_n there_o mean_v by_o timothee_n must_v only_o deliver_v the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v deposit_v with_o he_o or_o in_o his_o hand_n not_o find_v out_o by_o he_o which_o he_o have_v receive_v not_o invent_v whereof_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v author_n or_o beginner_n but_o the_o keeper_n or_o guardian_n he_o say_v that_o if_o such_o a_o man_n have_v ability_n for_o it_o he_o may_v like_v another_o beseleel_n adorn_v set_v out_o and_o grace_v the_o precious_a jewel_n of_o divine_a faith_n by_o expound_v more_o clear_o that_o which_o before_o be_v believe_v more_o
you_o and_o they_o be_v 10._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v out_o of_o mr._n fisher_n that_o though_o there_o be_v no_o express_a practice_n or_o precept_n of_o worship_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n yet_o there_o be_v principle_n which_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n suppose_v convince_v adoration_n to_o be_v lawful_a it_o be_v as_o well_o and_o true_o say_v by_o he_o as_o that_o be_v false_o foolish_o &_o impertinent_o which_o you_o say_v thereupon_o that_o from_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o grace_n we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o to_o declare_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n by_o the_o light_n thereof_o mr._n fisher_n say_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n show_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a which_o be_v true_a you_o say_v he_o declare_v it_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n from_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n which_o be_v false_a there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o those_o two_o to_o be_v lawful_a and_o to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n the_o light_n of_o nature_n may_v reach_v to_o show_v a_o thing_n to_o be_v lawful_a but_o not_o to_o make_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n for_o that_o must_v be_v ground_v upon_o the_o supernatural_a light_n of_o divine_a revelation_n which_o be_v far_o above_o the_o natural_a light_n of_o humane_a reason_n though_o by_o your_o favour_n sir_n knight_n as_o scornful_o as_o you_o speak_v of_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n it_o have_v somewhat_o more_o to_o do_v also_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n than_o you_o be_v aware_a of_o for_o out_o of_o one_o premisse_a reveal_v and_o another_o evident_a by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n there_o may_v be_v draw_v a_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n or_o at_o least_o such_o as_o may_v sufficient_o ground_v a_o definition_n of_o a_o council_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n and_o likewise_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n have_v place_n also_o in_o all_o the_o mystery_n of_o our_o faith_n in_o some_o show_v the_o reason_n or_o congruence_n in_o all_o show_v that_o there_o be_v no_o falsehood_n or_o impossibility_n and_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v the_o gift_n and_o law_n alsoe_o of_o god_n why_o then_o shall_v you_o speak_v so_o contemptible_o of_o it_o but_o only_o that_o you_o want_v it_o in_o great_a part_n and_o consequent_o know_v not_o the_o worth_n thereof_o 11._o but_o it_o be_v strange_a here_o to_o see_v how_o though_o you_o can_v find_v in_o your_o hart_n to_o allow_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n allege_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n you_o can_v allege_v it_o against_o they_o but_o even_o as_o wise_o as_o you_o deny_v it_o for_o they_o you_o say_v varro_n a_o heathen_a philosopher_n by_o the_o instinct_n of_o nature_n profess_v the_o contrary_a by_o say_v the_o god_n be_v better_o serve_v without_o image_n the_o latin_a be_v castius_fw-la dij_fw-la obseruantur_fw-la sine_fw-la simulachris_fw-la 31._o aug._n 4._o de_fw-fr civit._n ca._n 31._o which_o say_v you_o tell_v we_o s._n aug._n comend_v and_o so_o he_o do_v indeed_o but_o understand_v he_o far_o otherwise_o than_o you_o do_v for_o he_o do_v take_v simulachrum_fw-la not_o for_o a_o image_n as_o you_o do_v false_o but_o for_o a_o idol_n as_o it_o be_v indeed_o and_o so_o commend_v varro_n for_o come_v near_o to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o true_a god_n and_o go_v far_o from_o idolatry_n in_o that_o he_o neither_o acknowledge_v any_o deity_n in_o those_o material_a idol_n nor_o that_o multiplicity_n of_o god_n but_o rather_o allow_v the_o opinion_n of_o they_o that_o hold_v that_o god_n be_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o world_n which_o though_o it_o be_v also_o a_o error_n in_o he_o yet_o s._n augustine_n say_v it_o come_v near_a to_o truth_n in_o that_o it_o teach_v but_o one_o god_n and_o he_o not_o a_o material_a or_o corporal_a but_o a_o spiritual_a and_o invisible_a substance_n for_o proof_n whereof_o varro_n allege_v that_o for_o above_o a_o hundred_o year_n the_o roman_n have_v worship_v their_o god_n without_o those_o material_a idol_n which_o whosoever_o bring_v in_o say_v he_o do_v take_v a_o way_n the_o fear_n and_o add_v or_o increase_v the_o error_n he_o mean_v that_o they_o that_o bring_v in_o those_o idol_n take_v away_o all_o fear_n of_o the_o god_n because_o man_n see_v those_o idol_n propose_v for_o god_n contemn_v they_o and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o he_o say_v castiùs_fw-la dij_fw-la obseruantur_fw-la sine_fw-la simulachris_fw-la the_o god_n be_v more_o chaste_o or_o pure_o observe_v or_o fear_v without_o those_o idol_n now_o what_o be_v this_o against_o us._n do_v not_o we_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n much_o more_o ample_o and_o more_o full_o i_o see_v not_o then_o why_o you_o shall_v bring_v it_o unless_o it_o be_v to_o usher_v in_o a_o thing_n which_o you_o have_v out_o of_o eusebius_n to_o give_v the_o reason_n as_o you_o say_v why_o these_o father_n condemn_v the_o worshipper_n of_o image_n for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n in_o these_o word_n because_o say_v eusebius_n the_o man_n of_o old_a of_o a_o heathenish_a custom_n be_v wont_v after_o that_o manner_n to_o honour_v such_o as_o they_o count_v saviour_n whereupon_o you_o say_v that_o after_o image_n have_v get_v foot_v among_o christian_n the_o bishop_n and_o emperor_n by_o counsel_n and_o command_n take_v special_a care_n to_o prevent_v both_o the_o make_n and_o worship_v they_o and_o thereto_o you_o bring_v a_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n that_o no_o picture_n shall_v be_v in_o church_n lest_o that_o which_o be_v worship_v shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n and_o a_o authority_n out_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n of_o a_o decree_n make_v against_o adoration_n of_o image_n which_o i_o shall_v cite_v when_o i_o come_v to_o answer_n it_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n wherein_o you_o have_v give_v so_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o notorious_a bad_a deal_n especial_o in_o the_o 2._o place_n of_o eusebius_n and_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n that_o if_o there_o be_v nothing_o else_o falsify_v or_o corrupt_v in_o your_o whole_a book_n this_o be_v enough_o utter_o to_o deface_v all_o memory_n of_o you_o from_o among_o honest_a man_n 12._o the_o matter_n be_v this_o have_v bring_v only_o s._n aug_n commend_v varro_n his_o say_n against_o idol_n you_o say_v in_o the_o plural_a number_n these_o father_n as_o if_o you_o have_v bring_v some_o great_a number_n of_o father_n and_o withal_o you_o say_v these_o father_n condemn_v the_o worhipper_n of_o image_n for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n what_o word_n have_v you_o bring_v out_o of_o any_o father_n one_o or_o other_o to_o this_o purpose_n from_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o this_o §_o either_o condemn_v the_o woship_n of_o image_n in_o we_o christian_n or_o call_v we_o haeretique_n or_o idolater_n for_o it_o how_o then_o can_v you_o have_v the_o face_n to_o say_v it_o so_o bold_o but_o we_o must_v not_o ask_v you_o reason_n for_o any_o thing_n you_o say_v but_o take_v it_o as_o you_o say_v it_o well_o you_o tell_v we_o eusebius_n give_v the_o reason_n why_o the_o father_n condemn_v we_o for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n which_o import_v that_o eusebius_n concur_v with_o those_o father_n in_o judgement_n who_o fact_n he_o give_v a_o reason_n for_o but_o what_o if_o eusebius_n do_v not_o condemn_v it_o can_v you_o desire_v to_o be_v count_v a_o honest_a man_n i_o presume_v you_o can_v well_o let_v we_o then_o see_v whether_o he_o do_v so_o or_o not_o make_v mention_n of_o the_o city_n of_o caesarea_n philippi_n by_o occasion_n thereof_o he_o relate_v a_o story_n of_o the_o woman_n which_o be_v cure_v by_o touch_v the_o hem_n of_o our_o saviour_n garment_n 14._o eus._n hist_o lib._n 7._o cap._n 14._o and_o how_o come_v home_n after_o her_o cure_n to_o caesarea_n philippi_n where_o she_o live_v she_o make_v herself_o a_o brazen_a statue_n set_v upon_o a_o high_a stone_n before_o her_o own_o door_n as_o if_o she_o be_v kneel_v upon_o her_o knee_n and_o hold_v up_o her_o hand_n like_o one_o pray_v and_o look_v towards_o another_o statue_n of_o a_o man_n stand_v straight_o up_o with_o long_a garment_n down_o to_o the_o foot_n stretch_v out_o his_o hand_n to_o the_o woman_n which_o statue_n the_o people_n say_v be_v the_o statue_n of_o jesus_n upon_o the_o very_a basis_n or_o foot_n of_o this_o statue_n they_o say_v there_o grow_v a_o certain_a strange_a and_o unusual_a kind_n of_o herb_n which_o as_o soon_o as_o it_o grow_v up_o so_o high_a as_o to_o touch_v the_o hem_n of_o the_o brazen_a garment_n it_o have_v virtue_n to_o cure_v disease_n of_o every_o kind_n which_o statue_n eusebius_n say_v continue_v to_o his_o time_n and_o that_o he_o see_v it_o himself_o neither_o be_v it_o to_o be_v wonder_v say_v he_o go_v on_o with_o his_o discourse_n that_o
uncertainty_n and_o novelty_n of_o his_o own_o for_o which_o end_n you_o produce_v 8._o several_a place_n six_z whereof_o i_o have_v answer_v before_o and_o there_o also_o show_v that_o some_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n to_o the_o purpose_n other_o most_o gross_o falsify_v the_o 1._o place_n to_o wit_n that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o faith_n because_o he_o can_v be_v certain_a he_o receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o minister_n intention_n be_v answer_v and_o prove_v most_o foolish_a chap._n 10._o n._n 7.8_o etc._n etc._n the_o second_o place_n which_o be_v of_o transubstantiation_n as_o if_o bellarmine_n confess_v it_o probable_a that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n be_v answer_v in_o cap._n 9_o §_o 2._o n._n 22._o concern_v which_o i_o only_o note_v that_o in_o this_o place_n you_o have_v a_o new_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellar._n say_v only_o that_o it_o may_v be_v doubt_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o place_n of_o scripture_n so_o plain_a as_o without_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n to_o enforce_v transubstantiation_n because_o some_o learned_a man_n as_o scotus_n do_v doubt_v thereof_o though_o bell._n say_v to_o he_o the_o scripture_n seem_v so_o plain_a as_o to_o enforce_v it_o here_o you_o make_v he_o say_v it_o may_v be_v doubt_v whether_o the_o scripture_n will_v bear_v it_o which_o be_v clean_o another_o thing_n for_o to_o enforce_v a_o sense_n &_o bear_v a_o sense_n be_v two_o several_a thing_n neither_o do_v scotus_n or_o any_o divine_a else_o ever_o make_v question_n but_o that_o the_o scripture_n will_v bear_v that_o sense_n but_o whither_o that_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o obvious_a a_o sense_n as_o of_o itself_o to_o enforce_v the_o belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n the_o 3._o 10._o bell._n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 9_o &_o 10._o place_n which_o be_v of_o mass_n without_o communicants_n i_o pass_v over_o before_o as_o impertinent_a to_o the_o purpose_n and_o so_o i_o may_v do_v here_o but_o for_o the_o reader_n be_v full_a satisfaction_n i_o answer_v bellarmine_n say_v that_o mass_n be_v ordain_v both_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n to_o god_n and_o to_o nourish_v the_o people_n with_o spiritual_a food_n in_o which_o respect_n as_o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o offer_v it_o to_o god_n though_o there_o be_v none_o to_o communicate_v but_o very_o lawful_a good_a and_o holy_a so_o be_v it_o more_o perfect_a and_o as_o i_o may_v say_v in_o a_o certain_a sort_n more_o lawful_a where_o be_v some_o to_o communicate_v for_o than_o it_o have_v both_o the_o end_n for_o which_o it_o be_v ordain_v now_o what_o do_v this_o make_v for_o you_o sir_n knight_n or_o against_o we_o as_o also_o that_o which_o follow_v here_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o express_a mention_n among_o the_o ancients_n where_o none_o do_v communicate_v but_o the_o priest_n alone_o but_o only_a conjecture_n for_o no_o more_o be_v there_o any_o express_a mention_n to_o the_o contrary_a that_o no_o priest_n may_v nor_o ever_o do_v say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n which_o unless_o you_o can_v show_v in_o bellarmine_n you_o say_v nothing_o against_o we_o neither_o if_o you_o can_v show_v it_o shall_v you_o therefore_o say_v any_o thing_n for_o your_o own_o sacrificelesse_a communion_n which_o have_v no_o affinity_n with_o our_o mass_n the_o essence_n whereof_o consist_v in_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n and_o communion_n in_o be_v a_o participation_n of_o the_o same_o sacrifice_n your_o protestant_a communion_n be_v but_o a_o bit_n of_o unblessed_a bread_n and_o no_o participation_n of_o sacrifice_n for_o you_o absolute_o deny_v all_o manner_n of_o visible_a sacrifice_n in_o the_o church_n now_o for_o bellarmine_n conjecture_n it_o be_v true_a he_o give_v they_o no_o other_o name_n but_o of_o conjecture_n but_o they_o be_v such_o as_o may_v with_o great_a probability_n persuade_v any_o indifferent_a man_n to_o conclude_v that_o many_o time_n and_o i_o may_v say_v much_o more_o frequent_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n then_o with_o they_o and_o the_o lest_o of_o they_o be_v such_o that_o if_o you_o have_v but_o half_a such_o a_o one_o for_o any_o point_n you_o hold_v you_o will_v vaunt_v it_o and_o triumph_n as_o if_o you_o have_v a_o unanswearable_a demonstration_n but_o be_v it_o so_o or_o be_v it_o not_o of_o some_o of_o the_o people_n communicate_v whensoever_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n what_o make_v it_o to_o our_o purpose_n which_o be_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n or_o not_o they_o do_v not_o will_v you_o say_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n i_o ask_v what_o then_o may_v not_o we_o now_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v every_o day_n then_o must_v every_o body_n communicate_v now_o therefore_o every_o day_n all_o give_v their_o good_n away_o and_o live_v in_o common_a must_v every_o body_n do_v so_o now_o i_o believe_v sir_n knight_n you_o will_v not_o like_v that_o so_o well_o if_o the_o people_n devotion_n grow_v so_o cold_a as_o not_o to_o participate_v sacramental_o of_o the_o sacrifice_n must_v the_o priest_n grow_v so_o cold_a also_o as_o not_o even_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o his_o own_o and_o the_o people_n sin_n this_o be_v no_o good_a council_n sir_n humphrey_n almighty_a god_n reprehend_v it_o by_o his_o prophet_n 24.2_o isay_n 24.2_o that_o the_o priest_n be_v grow_v like_o the_o people_n sicut_fw-la populus_fw-la sic_fw-la sacerdos_n we_o can_v be_v glad_a sir_n if_o you_o can_v help_v to_o mend_v the_o people_n but_o not_o mar_v the_o priest_n which_o you_o will_v do_v enkindle_v their_o devotion_n not_o destroy_v their_o faith_n nor_o take_v away_o the_o holy_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n which_o afford_v many_o benefit_n even_o to_o not_o communicant_n though_o not_o so_o much_o as_o to_o they_o that_o do_v communicate_v sacramental_o but_o what_o do_v i_o in_o this_o discourse_n here_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o show_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o patronize_v you_o nor_o weaken_v us._n the_o two_o place_n follow_v touch_v prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n and_o communion_n under_o both_o kind_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v also_o answer_v before_o &_o be_v only_o of_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o argument_n with_o this_o the_o 6._o place_n which_o be_v as_o if_o bell._n teach_v your_o two_o sacrament_n be_v answer_v in_o two_o place_n upon_o several_a occasion_n fine_n chap._n 9_o §._o 4_o fine_a and_z ch_z 10._o fine_n and_o in_o both_o be_v show_v your_o notorious_a corruption_n both_o of_o word_n &_o sense_n 2._o now_o for_o your_o two_o last_o testimony_n which_o you_o bring_v not_o before_o i_o shall_v here_o examine_v one_o you_o tell_v we_o be_v touch_v faith_n and_o good_a work_n of_o which_o say_v you_o it_o be_v bellarmine_n confession_n 6._o bell_n lib._n 3._o the_o â—ustif_a cap._n 6._o that_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o faith_n &_o repentance_n be_v requisite_a that_o be_v a_o lively_a faith_n and_o earnest_a repentance_n and_o that_o without_o they_o no_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o you_o propound_v the_o matter_n very_o imperfect_o and_o ignorant_o in_o say_v thus_o touch_v faith_n and_o good_a work_n it_o be_v bellarmine_n confession_n etc._n etc._n not_o tell_v we_o the_o particular_a controversy_n for_o which_o you_o bring_v this_o say_n of_o bellarmine_n there_o be_v more_o controversy_n than_o one_o between_o you_o and_o we_o as_o whither_o any_o thing_n be_v needful_a to_o justification_n beside_o faith_n or_o what_o faith_n it_o be_v that_o justifi_v and_o how_o and_o whither_o good_a work_n be_v necessary_a or_o no_o and_o how_o they_o concur_v for_o there_o be_v all_o these_o thing_n and_o more_o in_o question_n between_o you_o and_o us._n and_o a_o man_n will_v have_v think_v by_o your_o general_a title_n of_o faith_n and_o work_v it_o have_v be_v in_o proof_n of_o some_o of_o these_o that_o you_o have_v bring_v bellarm._n but_o it_o be_v for_o no_o such_o matter_n bellarmine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v handle_v a_o clean_a different_a question_n to_o wit_n whether_o a_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o own_o grace_n and_o justice_n that_o be_v whether_o he_o be_v in_o the_o grace_n and_o favour_n of_o almighty_a god_n or_o not_o and_o for_o proof_n that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a thereof_o he_o bring_v diverse_a place_n of_o scripture_n which_o imply_v a_o condition_n on_o our_o part_n in_o our_o justification_n as_o if_o we_o turn_v to_o god_n if_o we_o seek_v he_o in_o our_o whole_a hart_n if_o we_o do_v penance_n if_o we_o believe_v if_o we_o do_v his_o will_n etc._n etc._n god_n will_v turn_v to_o we_o forgive_v our_o sin_n and_o the_o like_a which_o condition_n say_v