Church-Tradition to the morning Light detected and shewed to halt down-right of all foure 217 218. The Prelate still unreasonably inculcates his Church-Tradition 218 219. He is brought into a Circle 219. 121. The Prelates Whimsey suckt in from the Popish Schoole That Divinity hath a Science about it confuted 219 220. What true Divinity properly is ibid. 122. The Prelate selfe-condemned while his leaning too much upon Tradition may mislead Christians 221 The Prelate still prosecutes his Tradition ibid. His misapplying of his Schoole-distintion 222 223 224. Shoole-distinctions must be well examined by Scripture 224. 125. The Prelate calls the Protestants Seperation from Popery a miserable rent which he lamenteth with a bleeding heart 225 226. His vanity discovered ibid. A most shamefull or rather shamelesse lye of the Prelate detected 226. His blasphemous lye that he hath given the Scripture more then enough 227. The Prelate confesseth he goeth the same way with the Jesuite for Church-Tradition ibid. A subtile and sly insinuation of the Prelate detected of vanity ibid. The onely difference between the Prelate and Jesuite about Tradition noted 228. 128. The Prelate vaunting the Roman Church to be a true Church with his reasons confuted 229 2â—0 231 232 233 234. Rome holds neither Word nor Sacraments Ergo no true Church 131 132. The Prelates privy nipping and pretty quipping of Luther and in him all the Reformed Protestant Churches as seperating from Rome not onely as it was then false but as once formerly true 236. And so he shuts them out as Seperatists from the true Catholicke Church as â—e accounts â—t ibid 133. How tenderly the Prelate toucheth Rome for her Superstition and errour and not once in all his Book charging her with Idolatry 23â— Who be the Prelates best men who he saith most bemone his miserable rent ibid. Reconciliation of true Protestants with Rome impossible ibid. The vanity of the Prelates Apologie for the Protestants about the Rent 238. The Synagogue of Rome and her Corruptions are grown into one intire body ibid. 135. The Prelate no observer of his own Law in interpreting of words ibid. The Prelates vaine condition to the Jesuite about Reconciliation with Rome 238 239. Why the Prelate so names The Great Sacrament of the Eucharist 239. 136. True Protestants protest against such damnable Corruptions of Rome as the Prelate accounts essentiall parts of his Catholicke Church ibid. 138. Why the Replyer hath so sharpened his style against the Prelate 241 The Example of Irenaeus arguing with Victor declared and retorted upon the Prelate concerning Ceremonies 241 242 243. 140. The Prelate beleeves that though his whole Militant Church cease to be holy yet she is a Church of Christ still 245 confuted to 251. The Prelates Militant Church why so called It is the Malignant and Antichristian Church 251 252. The Prelate implyes his Militant Church may fall from the Foundation and cease to be holy and become Hereticall and an Assembly of Hereticks ibid. The true difference between the Prelates false Militant Church and of the onely True ibid. Christs true Militant Church connot fall from the Foundation A notable instance and demonstration shewing that denyers of the Christian Sabbath day to be commanded in the 4th Commandement is an overthrowing of a fundamentall point of Faith and consequently of the whole Faith 248 249. A cleare Declaration of the Sabbath day commanded in the 4th Commandement and applyed to us Christians 248 249 250. How farre in this and other points of faith the Prelates Church of England is fallen is put to the Prelates consideration 250. 141 142. Romes errours being dyed in graine cannot by the Prelates confession consist with holinesse 251 252. 142. A peremptory Speech of the Prelate 252. The Prelate plainly enough blameth the Protestants both for making and continuing the Separation and that most peremptâ—rily ibid. How Jesuites are by the Laws of England to be disputed with and where 253. The Prelates honesty wherein it consisteth 254. namely in excluding the Scripture as Iudge an disputation ibid. 148. The Prelates Faint confession that Romes errous doe onely indanger Salvation 254. The Prelates tender Heart loth to make the rent wider ibid. Not so tender to Christs Lambs as to the Romish wolfe 255. How by the Jesuites Confession alledged by the Prelate the Protestants can abandantly justifie their Seperation from Rome ibid. The Ten Tribes under Jeroboam how no true Church against the Prelate 255 compared with Rome 256. 153 154. The Prelates notorious hypocrisie detected in his calling Pelagianisme that great bewitching Heresie As also in naming sâ—me Councels as setting the Church right therein Retorted upon the Prelate 259 260 261. 1â—5 The Prelate confuted by those examples himselfe alledgeth about his Princes and Clergies power and direction for Reformation of Religion 261 262. Of Englands halfe-Reformation now made a whole Deformation 262. To whom Reformation of Religion belongs and how ib. The Replyer justifies his answering the Prelate by his own confession 262. 157. The Prelate still persists in his obstinacie not allowing the Scripture for Iudge in doubtfull Cases 263. 171. The Prelate glories in the Title of Patriarchate of the other world which the Pope gave to his Prdecessor Anselme 263 264. An honest Cobler to be preferred before all the Prelates Pontificall and pompous Titles 264. 175. Authority of Prelates over the Clergie no Calling from God 264 to 268. Of what known use and benefit they be for unity and peace Hieromes words omitted by the Prelate That Prelates were brought in by humane presumption and not by Divine Institution 264. Scripâ—ure hath no Diocesan Bishops 267 268. 2. but they are usurpers and Tyrants 177. Domination Prelaticall with Subjection thereto confessed by the Prelate to be grounded on Canon and Positive Law 267. How the Prelates are fallen between two Stooles 268. 2. They call themselves Princes 269. 2. What kind of Princes they be 270. And who be the true Princes 269 2. 183. The Prelates necessity of one Ordine Primus and confession that the Popes Principality was the very fountain of Papall Greatnes do prove that of necessity the Prelaticall Catholicke Church is the very Head and Body of Antichrist confederate against Christ and his true Church 268 269 270 271. 182. How and whereupon the Prelate would reduce all to Rome 272 273. Where his subtilty anent the Popes Supremacy and Infallibility iâ— detected He is selfe-condemened 274. 199. How by the Prelates confession the Pope and so other Prelates cannot prosper because they have no Authority from God 274. Proud Prelates are none of Christs privy Councel 276 277. 200. The Prelates blasphemy against Christ making him the Author of the Antichristian Hierarchy detected and confuted 275 to 289. Prelates Ecclesiasticall Government not Aristocraticall but Tyrannicall 275 276. How Prelates differ from true Bishops in Scripture 278 to 281. For Prelates to be Vice-Roys how impious and absurd 28â— to 286. How unlike they are to Christ 282. Their
in his innocent nakednesse then with his devised Fig-leaves how applyed to the Prelaticall Church 103 104. Prelates Service sensuall and heathenish as done to an unknown God fully displayed 104. Prelates pompous Ceremonies like the Cardinals Sumpter 105. No necessity of Prelates Ceremonies sith both Superstitious and Superfluous saving that they are all the Substance of their Religion 106 107. True Reformation ought to have no Ceremonies at all to bind the Conscience 107. Prelates Ceremonies strengthen Superstition and Idolatry and destroy true piety 108. What is that Substance of Religion which Prelates Ceremonies doe fence 106 107. And what strength they adde to his Religion how it is weaknesse not to see 108. Prelates Ceremonies are beggerly Rudiments yea Aegyptian bonds and Babilonish Chaines 108. How by the Prelates Ceremonies so eagrely urged the Jesuites win ground 108 109. Romes Reconciliation hastened by hossing up wodden Altars and hurling down golden Ministers 109. The Jesuites hale in Popery through the Prelates broad Gates he hath layd open ibid. 21. How the Prelate hath layd open the wider-gates of his Catholicke Church by pulling down the walls and bulwarks of Christs true Church 109. The Prelates wider-Gates whither they lead 110. The Prelate hath nothing to doe with the true Faith nor Communion with the true Saints ibid. He perverteth the Scripture Jude 3. falsely applying the Saints Faith to his boundlesse Catholicke Church 110. What Truth the Prelate professeth and with what singlenesse of heart 110 111. And his notorious hypocrisie in deluding the King 111. The Prelate puts all his Book upon the King as published in obedience to his Majesties command ibid. What we may expect from the Prelate who resolves to dye in that Faith wherein he hath lived ibid. And so what hope he can have of Gods favour 112. THE CONTENTS OF THE MAINE POINTS AND PASSAGES IN THIS insuing Reply to the Relation it selfe 2. WHat is that Church whose judgement the Prelate would have the people to depend upon 113. And not to be too busie with Seripture but moderately in things obvious 114. How the Prelate yeelds the Jesuite this that the Church of Rome is a true Church on whose judgement people must depend 115. The Prelate a Subtile underminer of the Truth 116. 4. The papall Church holds no one point of Saving Truth ibid. 23. How the Prelate vants himselfe for the great Champion of the Church of England 117. 29. How the Prelate overthrows Christ while he makes things not Fundamentall in the Faith necessary to some mens Salvation but tells us not who those be 117 118. 31. How the Prelate can bind all men to peace by his Churches Declaration yea though it be not the Churches 118. The dangerous Consequences hereof 119. 32. The Prelate selfe-condemned for adding things contrary and detracting things necessary 120. 35. How against the Prelate things considered in the manner of Beeing onely are fundamentall in the Faith Instanced in sundry particulars 120 121. The many absurd consequences of Popish Reall-presence ibid. 37. How the Prelate makes things which are fundamentall in the Faith not to be so to all men 122. See 117.118 If the Prelate doe at all discerne what the true Faith is what use he makes of it 122. 39. How the Prelate falsifies Lyrinencis and is loth to English some of his words 123. If the Church of Rome be Lupanar Errorum a Stews of Errours 't were good that all should know her in plain English to be so to avoyd her though the Prelate be loth English men should know it ibid. How the Prelate applauds the Iesuite Stapleton in a grosse point of Popery whom Dr. Whitakers in the Chaire at Chambridge confuted 124. How therein the Prelate prefers Stapleton before Bellarmine who comes nearer to the Truth ibid. 40. How the Prelate is justly as an Enemy to Assurance of Salvation and so of true Saving Faith 124. 43. How the Prelate makes it whether for a penny Beliefe of Scripture or the Creed hath the Precedencie of a Prime Principle of Faith 125. 44. The Prelate allows some Traditions for Apostolick though not fundamentall in the Faith ibid. 45. The Prelates Faith of Christs Descent into hell which Article is by the Replyer discussed 126 to 129. 47.48 For default of examining the Articles of the Creed by Scripture the Prelate overthrows two Articles The Catholicke Church and the Communion of Saints 129. 51. Notwithstanding the Prelate we ought boldly and publickly to affirme The Truth against errour 132. 53. The Prelate submits the Faith of the Church of England to the judgement of the Fathers whether her Articles be according to Scripture How by those Fathers he is condemned 132 133. With what limitation the Church within the first 400 or 500. yeares may be sayd to have been at the best 133 134. How the Replyer declines the occasion of entring into a comparison between the truly Reformed Protestant Churches and that within the first 500. years after the Apostles 134. Conformity to Popish Rites a Pretence to bring Papists to Church as the Christians anciently intertained Heathen manners to draw them to be Christians 134. Augustine complained of Ceremonies then when if the Prelate say true the Church was at the best ibid. 62. The Prelates false professed Faith concerning the Catholicke Church in the Creed which he defines to be the Society of all Christians 135. 66. How the Prelate jumpes with Bellarmine for a word of God as well unwritten as written 135 136 137. Baptisme of Infants a Doctrine of Scripture not an unwritten Tradition We ought to repaire to Scripture in all doubts of Faith 137. 72 73. How the Prelates words not well examined may make us beleeve he is no Arminian but Orthodox in the Doctrine of Grace while he abuses the Scripture most palpably and grosly 138 139. 75 76. What the place and office of naturall Reason is in judgeing of Scripture against the Prelate magnifying naturall Reason to the vilifying of Scripture the blindnesse and vanity thereof in judging of Divine things and matters of Faith 140 141 142 143. Vnsanctified Reason how it judges the Scripture to be false 143. How the Prelate is put to his naturall Reasons pregnancy in matters of Faith 1â—2 77. The Prelates extreme blindnesse or malice in saying The Scripture is strengthened with probable Arguments from the light of Nature and humane Testimony to convince men without which it is not so demonstratively evident of it selfe 144. At large confuted 14â— to 149. A secret power in Scripture convincing a naturall man in the reading or hearing of it preached that it is the very word of God 148 149 150. See also A motion of the Replyer to the Prelate how he shall make tryall of the Scriptures powerfull sufficiencie to convince him that it is the word of God 149. A comparison of the Scripture with the Sun 151. Gods word preached and not Church-Tradition the ordinary prime motive and instrument of Faith Illustrated
the strength of your powerfullest perswasive reasons and draw them by your gentlest motives but doe not hale and dragge them with the violence of your Archiepiscopall power and Romish zeale Throw not Godly Ministers out of their Ministry and Means and that by Hundreds with their Wives and Children exposed to all miseries of poverty and all because they will not dare not yeeld to your lawlesse Prelaticall Impositions Innovations Usurpations But if you will needs proceed on in that your violent course against Christ and Christian liberty and peace of mens Consciences assure your selfe you shall not prâ—sper you shall not be victor Christ will confound you with all your Power and Pollicie And He shal be both Irenaenus and Victor for his Church both to Conquer his Enemies and to restore Peace to his People And thus much of your example of Irenaeus and Victor L. p. 141. Well thus the whole Militant Church is holy and so we beleeve And if she erre in the Foundation that is in some one or more Fundamentall points of Faith then she may be a Church of Christ still but not Holy but becomes Hereticall And most certaine it is that no Assembly be it never so Generall of such Hereticks is or can be holy P. Doe you beleeve the whole Militant Church to be holy And so doe I. But your whole Militant Church is not the same with that which I beleeve is holy For your whole Militant Church whereof you professe to be a member is in plain terms the Antichristian Church and the Church Malignant which is a persecuter of the true Militant Church of Christ as both hath been and yet will be made more manifest So as your Militant Church is properly so called for no other reason but because it makes Warre against Christ and his Saints Rev. 12.7 and 13.7 and 16.14 and 17.14 but the true Militant Church of Christ is so called because she fights spiritually under Christs banner against Sinne the World the Flesh the Devil and cruell Persecuters whom she overcomes by the blood of the Lambe and by the word of her Testimony not loving her life unto the death So as your Militant Church is a name which you have usurped abused and perverted whereas it is to be named according to its nature The Church Malignant For further proofe hereof you say if she erre in some one or more Fundamentall points c. Which implyes your Militant Church may erre in points Fundamentall Which cannot possibly be understood of the onely true holy Catholicke Militant Church of Iesus Christ. For this whole Militant Church of the Elect cannot either in whole or in part or in the least member of it erre in any Fundamentall point so as thereby to becâ—me unholy For this were else to fall from Christ and from â—he Comâ—munion of Saints by being seduced by Antichrists and false Prophets who shall deceive if it were possible but it is not possible the verâ— Elect. This erring in the Foundation belongs and extends to all the Reprobates of the world who are by Antichrist seduced unto their perdition who because they receive not the love of the Truth that they might be saved God shall send them strong Delusions to bâ—leeve a lye yea to beleeve that for truth which their own â—eared Conscience tells them is a lye For not to receive the love of the truth implyes that they had received the truth unto acknowledgement and conviction but the love of this truth they imbraced not But the whole Militant Church of Christ I say cannot be so seduced unto perdition or to fall from Christ. What is it to fall from Christ To fall from Christ is to fall from that Faith and love of Christ which once they professed that is from the Faith of the Doctrine of Christ and from that love which they professed towards it And this faâ—ling from the Faith of Christ is when any one Fundamentall point of faith is denyed and persisted in as we have formerly proved as in the Resurrection and Circumcision and sundry others I might adde here many other Instances as the Deniall of all the Doctrines of Grace in Gods Free Election Redemption c. which Grace and Merit of Christ is peculiar to the Elect onely I will onely adde one more here which I but touched before He that denyes the Lords day to be the Sabbath day of Christians commanded no lesse to Christians in the 4th Commandement then the seventh or last day of the week was to the Iewes he erres in the Foundation becomes unholy and falls away from the Faith of Christ. This I demonstrate thus First The 4 th Commandement is Morall and so eternall and unchangeable And as the eternall sabbatisme is in heaven belonging to the Church Tryumphant so there is a sabbatisme temporall pertaining to the Church Militant in this world This sabbatisme as the other is the rest of God His Rest saith David This Sabbatisme in the Church Militant is by God himselfe appointed to be solemnly observed of the whole Congregation on that seventh day of the week wheron himselfe rested This Sabbath or rest of God was on the seventh or last day of the week upon the finishing of the worke of creation And therfore for that very cause God commanded his People in the Old Testament to sanctifie that Sabbath day weekly This is given as the Reason of its sanctification by the People The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God For in six dâ—yes he made heaven and earth and rested the seventh Therfore c. Remember to sanctifie the Sabbath day the Lords Sabbath day And note he saith not Remember to sanctifie the seventh or last day of the week but Remember to sanctifie the Sabbath day These words are the Morall substance of the Commandement The rest is an exposition and application of it the exposition to keep holy that Day for Sabbath which is the Lords own Sabbath day wherein himselfe hath rested Note this well for I will speak much here in few words Weigh them therfore number them not The particular application of the seventh or last day of the week as wherein God rested from his works of Creation is commended and commanded to Gods people under the Old Testament So as if there had not come in afterwards a more glorious Sabbath or rest of Gods as from a more glorious worke of a more glorious Creation we Christians also should have kept that seventh day that the Jewes kept But that this more glorious day of a more glorious rest of God from a more glorious worke being come then the same 4 th Commandement commands us Christians to keep this new Day of Rest of the Lord our God So as though the Day be changed yet the Commandement is the same It binds us still to sanctifie the Sabbath of the Lord our God Secondly for the application of the 4 th Commandement to us
so fit as his own Day of Rest which he hath Commanded to be sanctified weekly of us if we be his people and he the Lord our God who hath redeemed us in his holy and eternall Law and in which day we resting do partake and communicate of his holy and eternall rest begun here by Christ and consummate in heaven in that pangúrei solemne Generall Assembly and Congregation of the first borne written in heaven Heb. 12.23 And to conclude if the ten Commandements belong to us Christians under the Covenant of Grace then certainly the 4 th Commandement which commands to keep the Sabbath of the Lord our God which is the Lords day Now by this which hath been spoken you may examine how farre you and your Church of England have erred in the foundation that is in this and other fundamentall points of Faith at least if those Acts â—dicts and Books that have been published against the aforesaid Doctrines shal be avowed for the Doctrines of the Church of England as they are pressed And if with Rome you be thus fallen holy you are not by your own confession nor onely so but Hereticall yea more then that Infidel For in the same page you say If the Church can erre quite from the Foundation then she is nor Holy nor Church but becomes an Infidell Now we have proved that to erre in one or more though not in all fundamentall points of Faith is to fall quite off from the foundation But if you thus cease to be holy how are you the Church of Christ still as you say For holinesse is essentiall unto and so is of the Difinition of the true Church of Christ I beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church And so of every particular Church if it be a true member of the true Catholicke it is holy For Eadem est ratio totius partium If the whole be holy so every member and part But the whole true Church is holy For 't is Christs body mysticall whereof he the Head he the root and we the Branches and if the root be holy so are the branches as the Apostle saith And he saith againe The Temple of God is holy which Temple ye are And I say Christ being the Head and the Church hâ—s body the spirit of holinesse and sanctification flows down from the Head to all the mâ—mbers as the Oyle powred on Aarons head went down to the skirts of his clothing which was a type of the holy anoynting oyle of Christs spirit powred on him which he communicates to all the members of his misticall body even as a mans head communicates of Animal spirits of motion to all the parts of his body as we touched before Except with Bellarmine you will have a dead member to be a true member Indeed a dead member of a dead body is a true member of that body And certainly if a Church cease to be holy it ceaseth to be a Church of Christ any moreâ— But I pray you what should move you to say thus Though the Church ceaseth to be Holy yet ceaseth not to be a Church of Christ. You have it not from the Schoole of Divinity not scarce can you rake it out of the puddle of the Iesuites themselves But haply you might suspect that the Church of Rome might be proved to be fallen quite from the Foundation as hath been already proved before and therfore your Charity would provide one refuge for it that though thus she ceaseth to be holy yet not to be a true Church still But you may doe well to study this point a little better how to make it good How a Church may cease to be Holy becoming Hereticall and yet be a Church of Christ still L. p. 141.142 Those Errors that are dyed in Graine cannot consist with holinesse of which Faith in Christ is the very Foundation And therfore if we will keep up our Creed the whole Militant Church must still be holy P. This confirmes what before I concluded of the Church of Rome as no Church of Chhist because by your own verdict not holy For her Errors and that in the fundamentall points of Faith are all dyed in graine so as they will never change colour nor looke of another hue For both they are of no small antiquity and since their first hatching they have been by sundry Councels confirmed and at last most irrefragably in the Councel of Trent as hath been shewed For as those things which you elswhere instance Worship of Images first erected in the 2 d Councel of Nice the seventh Generall Transubstantiation first Decreed in the Councel of Laterian under Innocent the third and the taking away of the Cup in the Sacrament first decreed in the Councel of Constance so the Title of Antichrist of Vniversall Bishop and Head of the Church obtained first by Boniface 3. above a thousand yeares agoe with many or most or all the Rest of Popery have been ever since their severall erections upon all occasions more and more ratified never any corrected and by generall practice upheld and against all opposition and conviction stiffly maintained Are they not dyed in graine then And if so you confesse they consist not of holinesse But say you if we will keep up our Creed the whole Melitant Church must still be Holy Here you enterfere againe For notwithstanding all that is said or I suppose can be said you will have the Church of Rome to be holy still as being a member of the Church Militant in despight of the Pope But let her be a member of your Church Militant is she therfore holy Say not you your Church Militant may fall into errors so as to cease to be holy And if the Church of Rome hath thus fallen hath she not for her part ceased to be holy But not if she keep up the Creed What call you that To hold the letter of the Creed and to deny the Faith of it so we have proved before She hath lost the Faith of Christ the foundation of Holinesse Ergo she hath lost Holinesse Ergo lost the Essence of a Church Ergo she is not in the compasse of your Creed I beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church L. p. 142. I say it and most true it is That it was ill done if those who ere they were that made the seperation P. It should be most true if you doe but say it Yet we find not all to be most true you say How true this is I know not yet Let us here I remember a little before you performed a thanklesse office for the Protestants in making an Apology for them as not the first in the fault of this seperation Which I answered And here you put the fault on those that made the seperation who ere they were which might be aswell the Protestants as the Papists But speake out L. p. 145. For my part I am of the same opinion for the continuing of the Schisme that I was for
they renounce all such lords Aske them againe why they subject their Consciences soules and bodies to the will and lust of man in will-worship forbidden by the Apostle ô they answere they never knew that before and now that they know it they repent of it and from henceforth they renounce it and resolve to loose rather life and all then they will doe so any longer Thus even a good Christian through ignorance may for a time in a dangerous errour but so soon as he is convinced of it he will not for all the world continue in it So he that hath true saving faith in Christ resting on Christs merits alone for his justification he neither will nor can be brought to beleeve that he must be justified by his works For this is against the very nature of saving faith which rests onely on Christ renouncing all other respects So that 't is impossible that any true member of Christ should by any errour be so seduced as to be seperated from Christ for he is preserved by the spirit of Grace by the power of God through faith unto salvation So that as the whole body of the Church of Christ so every particular member of this body hath the certaine and infallible seale of the Spirit of Truth given him of Christ according to his promise purpose and intention for all truth absolutely necessary to salvation having both his Spirit and word to guide them into all truth Finally 't is very true being taken in a true sence that Christ never intended to leave an infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either contentious or curious or presumptuous spirits And if not presumptuous spirits certainly not such spirits as usurpe a Prelaticall and Lordly Authority and to sit as visible Iudges of Scripture in Generall Councels imposing upon all men a servile yoake of obedience to their Decrees whether right or wrong true or false Nay to such presumptuous spirits God hath given eyes not to see and hath made their hearts fat not to understand the truth not to see the light that shineth in his word and therfore they say it is darke and speake disgracefully of it So as the presumptuous is properly yours As for the contentious and curious these are they that contend for the truth against your undermining and oppugning of it and are curious â—o search and sound the bottome of that Mystery of Iniquity which is cunningly yet grosly enough folded up in the voluminous leaves of this your Booke So as for these so contentious and curious Christ did intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie them and to assure them of the Truth so as not all the opposition and contradiction in the world can beate them from it To the Tenth you make no matter of it if Generall Câ—uncels erre in one or a second or a third so it be not in things necessary In other cases it makes no matter if they erre And what matter is it then if there be none of your Generall Councel at all For you confesse that they may possibly though not easily erre in things necessary and in fundamentall points of Faith and yet obedience must be given If then it be no matter if in other things they erre onâ—e twice thrice yea or if you will in a hundred things take all these together and the world should be free from many dangers if it were rid of Generall Councels altogether But in the meane time you make no matter of it if in so erring they load the world with an intollerable burthen of errours which all men must bow their necks under till another Generall Councel doe free them and perhaps in stead of freeing them may lay as much more load upon them Truly my Lord if you had not a liberty to talk with your pen what you please and a strong opinion also that whatsoever you write or speake must needs be of every body highly applauded as if all you write were Oracles you would never have suffered such foule blots to have dropped from your pen. But 't is no matter If you erre in this and that and another c. aswell as your Generall Councels so as we knowing them may not in obeying or assenting erre with you To the Eleventh you say for necessary faith to salvation we have the Scriptures Creeds 4 first Generall Councels So then being furnisht of necessaries what need we any more I think the Apostles rule for temporall things may hold well in spirituall he saith having food and rayment let us therewith be content So Having all things necessary for faith to salvation let us use these well and bâ— content not affecting to be loaden with a multitudo of humane devises which Prelaticall Councels Courts and Canons put upon us And are Generall Councels so Cheape as that you should keep such a doe having no Necessaries to trouble them withall But it seems you have some other necessaries besides those of faith that will require a Generall Councel For you tell us pag 211. The setling of the Divisions of Christendome as the reconciling of England with Rome the making of Canons which must bind aâ—l particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded 〈…〉 but there to wit in a Generall Councel Why but there For the Church of England you may doe what you please onely you desire perhaps a Generall Councel to conclude for Altars and other utensils and so ease your shoulders of the envy and crime of Innovation but for that also you have a sufficient put off as is shewed before But the reconciliation and setling of the Divisions of Christendome will conclude all But still the Scripture with you is not alone sufficient for necessary faith to salvation without the Creed and at least the 4 first Generall Councels Why was the Scripture before there were any either Creeds or Councels And was not the Scripture then alone sufficient for all things necessary to salvation The Creeds and Councels are not to be added to the Scripture as if without them it were not an absolute and compleat Rule As for the Creeds they were for the summe and substance of them extracted from Scripture and must still be reduced to Scripture for their true sense and interpretation as before And for the Decrees of the 4 Generall Councels we approve of them no further then the Scripture warrants them And therfore though Twelfthly you humbly submit to the Scripture as it is interpreted by the Primitive Church and Generall Councels and not els yet we submit our faith onely to the Scripture as it is interpreted by it selfe and by the spirit of Christ speaking and breathing in it which by the Scripture interprets the Scripture unto us as Augustine doth well observe in his Second Book de Doctrina Christiana And herein you shew your faith not to be Divine but humane as which you submit not meerly to the Scripture but unto the Iudgment of men as
then as now was no lesse sensible then visible when sitting most conspicuous in their Courts they condemned Christs true Church for an Heretiâ—ke delivering it over to the seculer power for a burnt sacrifice And was not this that Church then of which you tell us when you say Our Church was just there then where Romes is nâ—w So as we need make no doubt but your now conspicuous Church of England was one and the same with that in Maryâ—s dayes onely that Church by vertue of a Law burned the Saints of God and you without Law bury them quick You aâ—e all for a conspicuous visibility of a Prelaticall or Hierarchicall Church But Christs true Church as before is otherwise which hath for the Bishop of her soule the Lord Iesus Christ who is no Non Resident Bishop but perpetually resident and present with all his Congregations Yea where but two or three are assâ—mâ—led in his Name there is He in the midst of them He saith not In a Cathedrall or other Church but indefinitely Wheresoever as in a Chamber in a private room as the Apostles were for feare of the High Priests During which time where was the conspicuous visibility of the true Church untill the day of Penticost came when there was a new Church collâ—ctive of all nations under heaven Againe Christ saith not Where there is a multitude but Where two or three nor assembled in a Prelâ—tâ—s name as members of a Prelaticall Church but In may Name saith Christ in the faith of me according to my word then and there am I in the midst of them to rule and protect as King to teach as Prophet as Priest to present their persons and sacrifices to my Father These these are those Churches or Congregations which you scorne and scoffe at and which you persecute and punish as â—alefactors for so assembling as where Christ is present among them which plainly bewrayes your selves to be the false Church which you say must be continually visible L. p. 320. A Church may hold the Fundamentall point literally and as long as it stayâ—s there be without controwle and yet erre grosly dangerously nay damnably in the exposition of it And this is the Church of Romes case For most true it is it hath in all Ages maintained the Faith unchanged in the expression of the Articles themsâ—lves but it hath in the exposition both of Creeds and Councels quite changed and lost both the sense and meaning of some of them So the Faith is in many things changed both for life and beliefe and yet seems the same Now that which deceives the world is that because the barke is the same men thinke this old decayed tree is as sound as it was at first and not wether-beaten in any age But when they can make me beleeve that painting is true beauty I le beleeve too that Rome is not onely sound but beautifull P. First here I must note the perplexed and confused frame of your first sentence You say A Church may hold thâ— fundamentall point literally and as long as it stayes there be without controwle and yet erre grosly dangerously nay damnably in the exposition of it As much as if you had sayd That a Church may hold the fundamentall point literally and erre grosly dangerously nay damnably in the exposition of it and yet be without Controwle As for As long as it stayes there namely in holding the fundamentall point literallâ— how is it without controwle when notwithstanding the holding of the letter it erre grosly dangerously nay damnably in the exposition of it For you joyne and jumble all together the holding of the letter and the overthrowing of the sense and yet want controwle And what 's the letter where the sense is lost What 's the barke when the pith and marrow is gone As Iâ—rome saith Gods word standeth non in verborum cortice sed in medulla sententiarum not in the barke of words but in the pith of the sense Well And this is Romes case say you How Most true it is say you that it hath in all ages maintained the faith unchanged in the expression of the Articles themselves but it hath in the exposition both of Creeds and Councels quite changed and lost the sense and meaning of some of them So the faith is in many things changed both for life and beliefe and yet seems the same Here againe do you not most pittifully enterfere Faith is lost in the exposition and yet kept in the expression of the Articles Have not you lost sense in this expression except you can recover it by a better exposition For you separate the expression from the exposition So you leave the Articles as a dead carcase without a soule For there is no faith kept in the expression of the letter without the true exposition of the sense And if the sense be lost the faith is lost And what expression of faith doe you call that which is abstracted from the sence But Rome hath lost the sense but of some of them Of which And whether of Creeds or Councels For here you shuffle both together too as making Councels of equall Authority with the Creeds I did not thinke before this nor yet that Councels Decrees are to be taken as Creeds Onely I might have learned of you before That Councels Decrees though they be erronious must bind all to obedience and then sure they are little inferiour to Creeds saving that those may be reversed by another Generall Councel but these not But however Rome is the same barke of a Church still Ergo a true Church still Why the Barke is not the Tree no more then a Sheep-skin is a Sheep No nor yet hath Rome so much as the barke of the true Church of Christ left Looke upon her outward hew and habit and there we shall find nothing but the habitements of the great Whore and the Ensignes of Antichrist with his Church Malignant warring against the true Spouse and Church of Christ. And both these we find in that one Chapter where the Woman is set out to the life Her Habilements She fits upon a scarlet coloured Beast full of Names of Blasphemy having seven Heads and Ten Hornes and she is arayed in purple and scarlet colour and decked with gold and precious stone and Pearle having a golden Cup in her hand full of abominations and filthinesse of her fornications with a Label on her forehead to know her the Better a Name written Mystery Babylon the Great the Mother of Harlots and abominations of the Earth and she is drunken with the blood of the Saints And a little after we see her Ensignes set up and those be her ten Hornes the power of Kings which she instigateth to make warre with the Lamb and those on his side the Called and Chosen and Faithfull Now the Whores habit is not the habit of Christs Spouse This is not the barke of the weather-beaten Tree of Gods
whatsoever faith is requisite and necessary to salvation as the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God as is shewed before And this saving faith is the faith of all them that are heires of salvation to wit of all Gods Elect and all the Saints But it seems with Father Bellarmine you have an Implicit faith for your ignorants and an Explicit for you that are great Clerks or the letter of the Creed for those and the sense for these But I handled this also before Onely you propound a Paradox which is no worke for your pen wherein you are the wiser not to take upon you to read or expound such riddles had you been so wise as not to have propounded â— And yet it is the worke of every good Minister of Chrâ—â—t to teach the people what to beleeve and to exhort them to grow in Grace and knowledge and Faith and so declare unto them the whole Counâ—el of God and to keep nothing backe and to build men up in knowledge more and more unto perfection As the Preacher saith Because the Preacher was wise he still taught the people knowledge yea he gave good heed and sought out and set in Order many Proverbs The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words and that which was written was upright even words of truth The words of the wise are aâ— Goads and Nayles fastened by the Masters of Assemblies which are given from one shepheard But this is not a patterne for you to follow neither by your tongue nor pen. You have other imployment for them But though we cannot set a bound to faith in respect of perfection of degrees yet we ought to teach the people all the parts of saving faith and knowledge striving unto perfection And besides it is the duty of every good Minister of Christ to limit and set bounds to all the negatives of faith in discovering all manner of sins and errours which are all contrary and enemies to faith and salvation For which end they must open all the ten Commandements as Christ did Mat. 5. and all other points of saving Doctrine in the Scriptures Now though you have not the skill or will to set bounds how farre men shall beleeve yet you want no will nor power to inhibit and restraine Preachers shewing them how little a way they must goe in teaching the people and so consequently how little a way the people must goe in beleeving and saving knowledge as in restraining and forbidding to preach the Doctrines of Grace as before forbidding Lectures and especially all Sermonâ— on the Lords day afternoon forbidding long Preaching at any time forbidding expounding of the Catethisme as many of your Prelates doe and the like Thus you can finely set men bounds how little thy shall beleeve or know of God to their salvation That 's a worke if not for your pen or hand yet for your head and not unlikely of your hand and pen too L. p. 327. The Romanists dare not beleeve but as the Roman Church beleeves And the Roman Church at this day doth not beleeve the Scripture and the Creeds in the sense in the which the ancient Primitive Church received them P Dare they not How then say you there is possibility of salvation in the Roman Church for any when it condemneth and accurseth saving faith and justification thereby with other saving truths For if the Papists dare not beleeve but as their Church beleeves then they are bound to good behaviour they dare not beleeve to their salvation And if they dare not beleeve to their salvation then they cannot be saved And if they cannot be saved what possibility of salvation for them living and dying in that faith And here Why do you noâ— say in the sense of the Scriptures themselves and not of the Primitive Church But you doe not like the Scripture sense except the Church interpret it You allow not Scriptures to speake for or testifie for themselves You are the same man still And as we sayd before you doe wisely in that to stoppe the mouth of Scripture as Ahab did Michaiahs for it never speaks good of you but evil alwayes L. p. 232. I will acknowledge every fundamentall point of faith as proveable out of the Canon as we account it as if the Apochryphall were added unto it P. As if Apocryphalls were any divine proofe at all of the fundamentall points of faith in Scripture or ought any way in that respect to be so much as named with the Scripture Apocryphalls saith Ierome may be read for instruction of manners but not for confirmation of faith as before L. p. 336. I have lived and shall God-willing dye in that faith of Christ as it was professed in the ancient Primitive Church and as it is professed in the present Church of England P. As you handle the matter ther 's a vast difference between the faith of Christ professed in the ancient Primitive Church and that which is now professed in the present Church of England For the Ancient Primitive Church taken properly and strictly as somtime in your Booke as before you put it was that wherein the Apostles lived Now will ye be tryed by the Ancient Primitive Church of the Apostles held and professed What say you my Lord for your faith in this case Will you put your faith and Religion to the tryall of the most intire and upright Jâ—ry the Twelve Apostles Certainly if you decline this tryall 't is a shrewd suspicion that the faith of yours wherein you are so resolute to live and dye is not right Therfore for shame of the world you must at least professe or pretend that you wil be tryed by the the Faith and Religion which the Apostles and the true Church of God in their time as being the most Pure Prime Ancient Primitive Church held and professed First then That Primitive Church neither held nor professed nor practised any Hierarchicall government of Prelates or Bishops but have câ—ndemned it in their writings the Scriptures of the New Testament And yet I are say you resolve to live and dye Primate of Canterbury and Metropolitan of all England Secondly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their Age and time had no Altars but onely the Lord Iesus Christ Heb. 13.10 as it is formerly proved but you and your Church of England both set up and worship Altars and â—each the people both by your Books and practise to do so too and force Ministers to erect Altars or force them out of their Churches And this Faith and Religion also I dare say you resolve to live and dye in Thirdly The Apostles and the anciciâ—nt Primitiâ—e Church in their time celebrated and sanctified every Lords day in holy duties onely and in preaching as well in the afternoon as in the fâ—â—enoon never forbidding but still exhorting to preach in season and out of season giving no liberty to vaine and profane sports and Pastimes either upon
be heard among them And for us thy poore handmaids here humbly suppliant before thee let thy holy Spirit direct lead and assist us in the way which may be most acceptable to thy Majesty and profitable for thy People and comfortable to us all in our distressed estate And shew unto thy Servants what thou wouldst have us to doe in this difficult businesse about the presenting of this Reply to the King which with our selves and all thine we humbly commend to thy grace and blessing through Iesus Christ to whom with thee ô Father and the Holy Ghost be all honour and glory now and ever Amen Mother Now my deare Children I will tell you what resolution GOD hath put into my heart upon the very close of this Prayer namely that we addresse our selves to the King with this Reply together with an humble Petition And because all of us perhaps would be too many let as many of you as are willing to attend me goe with me to the King the rest let them goe and be humble suiters at the Throne of Grace that our GOD would give us to find Grace in the eyes of the King so as hearkening to our Petition he may doe accordingly Such therefore of you as are willing to accompany me stand on this side and the rest stand on that side Well I see you are equally divided Six with me and Six for me With me Charity Humilty Prudence Piety Patience and Verity For me Faith Hope Zeale Iustice Mercy Prayer Now my Gracious Children be strong and of a good courage Our Cause is good and GOD is for us and though our enemies be great yet they shall not prevaile against us TO THE KINGS MOST EXCELLENT MAIESTY THE TRVE CHVRCH AND CHILDREN THE TRUE FAITH AND RELIGION OF JESUS CHRIST do humbly present their Petition of Right THAT whereas a Book intituled A Relation of a Conference between WILLIAM LAUDE and Mr. FISHER the Iesuite hath been by the said WILLIAM now of Canterbury lately republished and that under your Majesties Patronage and in the publishing whereof as he saith he hath obeyed your Majesty And whereas A Reply to the said Relation is now under the Patronage of JESUS CHRIST and in obedience to his Word and by assistance of his Grace here published and presented to your Majesty and before all the World in which Reply are detected and clearely evinced by manifold and infallible Testimonies sundry particular passages and Doctrines of the Relator which directly overthrow all true Christian Faith and Religion And whereas in this Reply is clearely proved that Prelaticall Government of the Church or the Hierarchy as they call it is meere Antichristianisme and the very Mistery of Iniquity branded by the Apostle and expresly forbidden by Christ himselfe to his Apostles whose Successors the Prelates falsely pretend to be and that all Prelates even as they are Prelates are both by their Profession and Practise so many Antiâ—hrists adversaries to CHRIST who as the Great Antichrist sit as Gods in the Temple of GOD Lording over the Faith Soule and Conscience of GODS People thrusting CHRIST out of his Throne And whereas notwithstanding the manifest truth hereof confirmed by most cleare Testimony and undeniable Proofes of Scripture the Relator or Prelate hath in his said Relation uttered sundry blasphemous Speeches belying the Wisedome Counsell and Providence of GOD and of CHRIST as making Him the Author and Ordainer of such a Hierarchicall Government of his Church which is to Father upon GOD and CHRIST a most notorious Lye and Falshood where he addes withall a blasphemous New Article of Belief of the Church of England that this is a truth And whereas the Holy Scriptures is and hath been in all Ages and by all Sound and Orthodox Divines both Ancient and Moderne both Forraigne and Domestick universally received held and constantly beleeved and maintained against all Adversaries of the Truth to be the Onely Rule of Faith and Iudge of Controversies in Divinity and alone Selfe-sufficient to give Testimony to it selfe that it is the undoubted Word of GOD as in this Reply also is fully prooved And whereas the Relator notwithstanding hath loded the Scripture with many intollerable reprâ—ohes and blasphemous words of disgrace censuring it as an insufficient witnesse to it selfe and an incompetent Iudge of Controversies in Faith as being both a blinde dumbe and dead Judge and that it hath no light in it selfe but is as a Candle in a box without light till Tradition of the present Church doe light it and the like the very ground of all Infidelity and Apostacie And whereas notwithstanding all such his blasphemies against the Scripture wherewith he hath stuffed some 30 leaves in Follio besides many other the like scattered all along his Book he the same Relator out of his grosse hypocrisie addeth this proud Blasphemy to all the rest That he hath given the Scripture all honour and ascribed unto it Sufficiencie more then enough And whereas also as appeareth in this Reply the Relator belyes and blasphemes the Holy Ghost himselfe making him the Author of most notorious lyes and vanity And whereas the Relator doth define a meere false and counterfeit Catholicke Church contrary to that Holy Catholick Church beleeved in the Creed whereby he overthrowes both that Article of Faith and with all the Communion of Saints teaching that his Catholicke Church though it cease to be holy yet is a true Church of CHRIST still And whereas of and in this his new Catholicke Church which the Relator beleeveth he makes the Church of England and of Rome to be one and the same Church and both to hold one and the same Faith of that his Catholicke Prelaticall Church which Faith is declared in the Reply not to be the true saving Faith and that they both do set up and professe one and the same Religion not different in which Faith and Religion of the Church of England and of Rome he saith as he hath lived so he resolves to dye as much to say as he will live and dye an English-Romish-Catholicke And whereas the Replyer proveth and which no Papist denyeth that the maine substance of the Romish Religion is the Masse And whereas the Relator confesseth that though a simple Papist may as he saith yet no Romanist as a Romanist living and dying in the Roman Faith can be saved and yet this Faith of Rome is the same with that of England wherein he will end his dayes So as the Church of England may hereby see in what a case she is and how highly she is preferred by her Primate as to be brought to be of the same Church the same Faith the same Religion with Rome enough to startle all your Majesties Subjects that till now thought themselves to bo Protestants and no Papists and to cause all zealous Christians to abandon all communion with such a Church as is the same Church of the same Faith and Religion with Rome And wheras
this Relator professeth and teacheth a blind Charity sutable to his Faith which he boldly affirmeth to be not a mistaken Charity in granting that a silly ignorant Papist so living and dying may be Saved by his Ignorance in that Religion conforming himselfe to his Religious life and on the contrary condemning such Protestants of stiffenesse and churlishnesse that are not of the same Charity with him though the Replyer proveth that there is no true Charity without true Faith and Verity And whereas the same Relator is shewed in this Reply to give much more liberty to your Majesties Protestant People to goâ— to the Romish Masse as being with him one and the same undiffering Religion with that of England then the Jesuite doth to his blind Romanist to come to the English Church And whereas the same Relator hath many passages wherein he makes a Generall Councell of Prelates Iudge in all Controversies of Faith ascribing unto them an Infallibility and in case they shall erre and that even in grosse things and points of Faith yet that all men are bound to yeeld obedience at least externall till another Generall Counsell equall to the former reverse those Errours whereupon by Consequence of this Prelaticall doctrine as the Replyer doth instance the Church of England it self is bound to observe the worship of Images and the forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament c. decreed in Generall Councels and not yet reversed by other Generall Councels equall to those And whereas the Relator calls Transubstantiation Purgatory and the forbearance of the Cup but disputable and Improbable Questions the nature of which is to be taken indifferently Pro and Con And whereas he never once in all his Relation calls the Romish-worship of Images and of the Sacrament or any other Idolatry in all the Romish Church but onely by the name of Superstition abstaining altogether from the name of Idolatry as if with him the Roman Church were no Idolatresse And whereas he much lamenteth the Seperation and rent between the Protestants and Rome with the continuance of it although with the Iesuite he confesse that errour in Faith is just cause of separation And whereas he the same Relator doth cunningly yet palpably enough in sundry passages of his Booke as also he hath openly done viva voce at the High-Commission-Board exclude all the Reformed Protestant Churches beyond the Seaes as no Churches of Christ as not admitting the Hierarchy Finally also in his Book quipping Luther and in him all the Reformed Churches as having made a rent not onely from Rome with her corruptions but even from the Catholick Church it selfe which indeed in the Relators sense and difinition of the Catholicke Church is most true to wit from the universall Hierarchy And whereas he the Relator doth every where highly extoll his Ceremonies in Gods worship as without which he saith there is no light left to shine before men that they may see his Devotion and so glorify GOD therein most foulely and odiously perverting and abusing the holy Text of Scripture uttered by CHRIST to a cleane other purpose as the Replyer hath noted all which Ceremonies being a will-worship after the Tradition and Commandement of men the Apostle doth utterly condemn as wherby the very merits of Christs death are made of none effect who in his death destroyed All Ceremonies in Religion obliging the Conscience and not onely the Leviticâ—ll but all other whatsoever of humane Ordinance as the Replyer clearely proveth So as it is not left to any Power on Earth to impose the least Ceremony yea though it be of nature indifferent to bind the Conscience in the service of GOD seeing all such imposition is Antichristian Tyranny And whereas all Prelaticall Hereticall and Antichristian Faction erected by the Prince of darkenesse against Iesus Christ and his Kingdome as is apparent both by their profession and practice wherein they have nothing at all yea not any one thing to show wherein they resemble either Christ or any one of his Apostles except Iudas Christs Kingdome being altogether spirituall and not of this world but the Hierarchy a meere carnall and worldly Kingdome onely guilded over with the bare name of spirituall And whereas the Relator throughout his whole Booke bewrayeth his most palpable and profound ignorance and notorious blindnesse in the whole mystery of Faith and all true divinity in so much as when ever he Cites Scripture he still perverts it to a wrong sense and is not able to bring any proofe either from Scripture or Common Reason except from some of his Jesuiticall Authors for any of his Paradoxes and strange doctrines delivering all without Book tanquam è Cathedra as but of some Papall unerring Chaire upon the Authority of his bare word and upon meere trust And whereas the Relator saith That worth once misled is of all other the greatest misleader and who of greater worth in the Church of England and in the Esteem of Great ones too then the Great Primate himselfe whose very word with many is taken as a divine Oracle So as if the Church and State of England will but pin their soules upon this Leaders sleeve he will not fayle to lead them in that way the issue whereof seem it never so right in the eyes of credulity will certainly prove to be as Solomon saith the wayes of death And whereas by the Relator sundry occasions are ministred to the Replyer of instancing divers practises charged upon the Prelate as the principall Agent or Instrument of setting up sundry Innovations in Religion in the Church of England all which have been done under his Primacie as The republishing under your Majesties Name the Book for liberty of profane Sports on the Lords day with pressing Ministers to read the Sayd Book in their severall Congregations and upon refusall extreamely persecuting them and thrusting them from their Ministry and meanes with their poore wives and children The authorizing and licencing of some Doctors Books which cry down the Morality of the 4 th Commandement for the Sanctifying of the Lords Sabbath day The setting forth of a New Order to restraine Preachers from Preaching in the Afternoones on the Lords dayes much pressed by the Prelates and their Officers in all their visitations The setting forth of a Declaration in your Majesties Name prefixed to the Articles of Religion which the Prelates practises plainly interpret to be for the restraining and prohibiting altogether the Doctrines of Saving Grace to be preached and wherein the genuine sense of those Articles touching Grace which formerly were universally interpreted to have but one sence agreeable to the Scripture is confounded with the heterodox hereticall doctrines of the Pelagians and Arminians so as none can tell what to make of those Articles saving that by this meanes the Orthodox Ministers must not preach the truth and the Adverse party and Faction may find footing and countenance for their groundlesse and gracelesse heresies and all this to the manifest
Kingdome meerly Temporall 283. Their Government Oligarchicall ibid. Christs Congregations have no need of Prelates to visit them having their own lawfull Pastor to feed them 285. The Govenment of Christs Church is most perfect of all other as consisting of the 3 States of good Politie or Government to wit the Monarchiall the Aristocraticall and the Democraticall 286. Prelates Lordly Tyranny expresly condemned by Christ as Heathenish 287 to 290. 204. The Prelaticall Church in England no lesse Tryumphant then the Prelate taxeth Rome to be 290 291. 205. By the Prelates own allegation nor Kings nor Priests may doe any thing in Reformation of Religion besides Gods prescript Law 291 292. And so by his Confession implicitly where the foundation of Faith and Good Manners are shaken therein Magistrates are not to be obeyed in which respect the Prelate is shrewdly put to it in sundry instances 293 to 297. 210. The Prelate againe blasphemeth Gods Name as if a favourer of the Prelaticall practises in England 297. A blasphemous Article of Faith of the Prelates pinning upon the Church of England ibid. Prelaticall Canons yea and Papall too yoaked and equalled by the Prelate with Scriptures in Governing the Church We must not joyn in Prayer with notorious profane Hypocrites and Enemies of Christ and of his Truth 298. A speciall Prayer for the King in these perillous times ibid. King and State abused and indangered by the Prelates practises and putting forth of this his Booke ibid. The Prelate proves all his Speculations with his bare word 199. What a Polititiant he Ch. of Eng. is grown under such a Primate Prelates no visible Judges of Gods Institution proved at large against the Prelates Blasphemy 399 300 301. Prelates Canons such Law-books as wherewith Christs Law-book cannot consist but is made of none effect They are Antichristian bondage ibid. No more necessity of one Primate over all England then of one pope over All 302. A Speciall duty of Christian Magistrates ibid. 212. How uniny and certainty of Faith is preserved by the Prelates 303. 194. The Prelate makes the Scripture a blind dumb and dead Judge 303 304. Of Generall Councels sundry notable Passages scattered along his Booke and collected by the Replyer and detected to be some of them ridiculous and all of them most impious and detestable from 304 to 324. How by the Prelates Doctrine both himselfe and his Church of England are bound to worship Images and to forbeare the Cup in the Sacrament as being decreed by Generall Councels and not yet reversed by any other equall to those 312 313. The Apostles Assembly Act. 15. no Precedent for Generall Councels in after Ages to be Judges in Controversies of Faith 314 315. and therfore that example not prudently but surreptitiously taken up by the Prelaticall Church The Prelate confesseth that Generall Councels have no Authority by Christs Institution 312 313. How unlike Prelaticall Councels are to that Act. 15. whereof not only the Apostles but the Presbyters and the Brethren the People of God were the Body 313 314. How the Prelate holds the Difinitions of Generall Councels to be infallible and that there is no more question to be made of the assistance of the Holy Ghost in them then that the Holy Ghosts assistance is without errour 325 326. The Prelate boldly professeth that he absolutely maketh a Generall Councel Judge of Controversies 327. Wherein he is abolutely fallen from the Catholick Faith His sundy assertions some ridiculous some contradictorious some blasphemous some darke riddles which he propounds and leaves unresolved and can never Resolve 321 322. He is catcht fast in his own Net And the more he struggleth to unwind himselfe out the mâ—re he is intangled 213. Though the Councel of Trent were not Generall yet it is so Generall as the Decrees thereof do bind all Papists under Anathema 328. 227. Another Reason of the Prelates why a Generall Councel erring yet should stand in force namely for the peace of Christendome confuted He is content to forgoe the Truth for Peace sake 328. The Prelates Heresie in holding it a branch of Heresie to say The Church Militant is without spot or wrinckle according to Ephes. 5. confuted 329 330. The Prelate overthrows an Article of the Faith 331. The Prelates Key of Doctrine primely in the Church wherewith he shuts out Truth and lets in Errour 329. He makes it but a supposition for the Key of Doctrine to let in Truth ibid. The Prelates subtile but futile and vaine Distinction of Transubstantiation confuted 332. He makes Christs Institution not to be cleare against Transubstantiation as against Communion in one Kind Confuted fully 333 334. Romish Adoration of Images minced by the Prelate set forth by the Replyer in its full proportion and shewed to be more grosse Idolatry then that of the Heathen 334 335 336. 280. The Prelates notorious hypocrisie in confessing Images in Churches and other Romish Superstitions to have given great Scandall to many so as to drive them quite away from them detected and selfe-condemned by his practises 337 338. Will-worship in Altar-Service and the like a Service of the Devil 340 341. The Prelates hot zeale in pressing more of Romes Ceremonies makes the old justly suspected as smelling ranke 341. Ilustrated by a similitude ibid. The Prelates Ceremonies condemned by the Same Testimony which he alledgeth 343 344. the By beâ—ng put for the Maine See before 280. The Prelate stands stiffly in this That a silly ignorant Papist living and dying in the Romish Faith may thereby conforming himselfe to his Romish Religious life be saved with his Reasons his so learning of Christ and his Charity not mistaken confuted 345 to 350. That which the Prelate calls Churlishnesse in the Protestants is better then the Prelates Charity ibid. 294 295. The Prelates quoting of 3. Martyrs for the Name of Reall Presence which he would faine have to be brought in use answered 350 351 352 353. Reasons why we ought not to name the Reall Presence in the Sacrament 351. 297. The Prelate dallies with Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup in saying they are Disputed or Disputable and Improbable Questions 353 354. Romes Tyranny confessed by the Prelate the Image whereof is proved to be in the Prelacy of England 356 357. How he dawbes with the Jesuites about their Salvation 357 358. 299. The Prelate contradicts himselfe and so overthrows his Faith and Charity concerning a silly Papists Salvation in Saying That as a Romanist he cannot be saved 357 358. The Prelates vaine ridiculous and absurd hope of the Salvation of some Papists living in the Church of Rome 358 to 363. The Prelates confession of the Romanists Faith crosseth his hope of their Salvation 372. The Prelate still hath a Reservation for the Salvation of his silly ignorant Papists 302. The Prelates worth misled the greatest misleader 363. The Prelates Rule 'T is safest to beleeve the Article of Christs Descent into hell as both the Churches of England
and of Rome doe agree upon 363 364. He contradicts himselfe ibid. 307. Jesuites Commendation of the English Liturgy whether it be a good signe 364. 318. How the Prelate rewards the late Dr. White for his Deserts and what they were 364 365. The true Church of Christ proved against the Prelate not to be alwayes visible and conspicuous by many Instances Though the Prelaticall be alwayes conspicuous 366 367 368. Most pittifull and perplexed contradictions and confused and false Speeches of the Church of Rome by the Prelate 369. Rome a Tree wholly corrupt without so much as the Barke of a true Church 370. 321. Dr. Whites Errours Fundamentall reductivè confuted 371 372. 325. Wherein the Prelates Church of England is departed from the Foundation 373. The Prelates Latitude of faith in reference to different mens Salvation which he can no more fit to them then a coat for the Moâ—ne 373 374. True Preachers must teach all what and how to beleeve though it be no worke for the Prelates pen 373. 327. The Prelate confesseth that Romanists dare not beleeve but as the Church of Rome beleeves which saith he beleeves not aright How then can his Ignorants be saved 374 375. 332. Apocrypha by the Prelate how neatly brought in as a Co-witnesse with the Scripture to prove points of Faith 375. 336. The Prelates Resolution to live and dye in the Faith of the Primitive Church confuted by sundâ—y Instances 375 376. 338. The Prelate holds not the Saving Faith as not acknowledging other then Romes Faith 377 378 379. And the Saving Faith is not in the Church of Rome 377 The Prelate holds a false Hope and Charity together with a false Faith with Rome wherein he will live and dye an English Romish-Catholicke 379 380. 339. The Prelates haâ—ting and halfing with the Jesuite 380. In charging Rome he checketh himselfe 340. His halting againe 381. Yet he confesseth that the now Roman Faith is not the Catholicke which Roman Faith he will live and dye in 380. What Contradiction is ib. His contradiction noted 382. His halting down-right all along 382 383. 342. How the Prelates Saving Faith of Rome is by himselfe proved to be Infidelity 384. So as compared with the former he will live and dye in the Roman Infidelity Conferre 375 376 377. His Collusion 382. 349 Who the first Founder of Purgatory 386. 365. The Prelates false root of the true Churches existence and true root of the false 387 388. 370. The Church of Rome how yeelded by the Replyer to be visible yet not Apostolicke against the Prelate 387 388. 371. Of Peters being at Rome 388. The Church of Rome for what preserved of God 389. 375 How the Prelate gives more liberty to his Protestants to goe to the Romish Church to heare Masse which he calls the Service of God then the Jesuite doth to his Roman Catholicks to goe to the English Service 390 391 392. 376. The Prelates Assertion That the Church of Rome and the Protestant Church of England do not set up a different Religion 392. And so no great difference of going to either yet that both accuse each other of grosse corruptions indangering Salvation 393. Ibid. Who are the Prelates Indifferent Readers to whom it appeares by his Discourse as himselfe saith That the Religion profest in the Church of England comes nearest to the Primitive Church And what Readers will judge the contrary 394. 377. Not onely Superstition as the Prelate stints it but grosse Idolatry in Adoration of Images in Invocation of Saints in Adoration of the Sacrament 395. 378. By the Prelates confession to the Priest A. C. there should be but little pride in his heart 396. 379. The Prelates wan hope of mercy to the dead Lady 396 397. 388. The Prelates Close or Conclusion wherein he excuseth himselfe by reason of his other weighty affaires and of his Age His misnaming of the Penman of the 90 Psalme least he should through all his Booke but touch or name any one Scripture and withall not mistake misapply or pervert it His fearefull and desperate condition layd home unto him by the Replyer His mocking and abusing Gods Name and Mercy in his hypocriticall Prayer and impenitent heart His blaphemy in Fathering all his Booke written and published for the meeting of his Popish Truth and Peace in a Reconciliation with Rome upon Gods Free Grace His wicked and false hope that God will bring to passe that his Diabolicall Designe and Desire which cannot come to passe but with the utter confusion of the whole Land His hypocriticall and faithlesse giving Glory to God after all his blacke mouthed blasphemies and disgraces throughout his Booke cast upon the Majesty of God of Christ and of the Holy Ghost also upon Gods holy word the Scripture as if he would in the close of all with this one plaister heale so many broken heads 397 to 405. This suffice for a rude Model But what 's that to the House it selfe Enter therfore and take a free and full view Consider what thou readest and the Lord give thee understanding in all things TO THE AVTHOR AND PVBLISHER OF THE RELATION MY Lord that you find not my Name in Front the Reasons are to my selfe And when you find it 't will appeare that feare of your displeasure though terrible enough was not the Cause But whoever I be you will Say perhaps I am some madde fellow and too bold to make a Reply to your Relation But your own words will I hope excuse me for that For you Say A right sober mâ—n may without the least touch of insolency or madnesse dispute a businessâ— of Religion with the Roman either Church or Prelate so it be with modesty and for the finding out or confirming of Truth free from â—anity and purposed opposition against even a Particular Church So you Now my manner in disputing with one so Great though a single Prelate and no Church being with modesty and 〈◊〉 from vaniâ—y and purposed opposition against your Person and the end for finding out and confirming the Truth which God himselfe knoweth I hâ—pe I Say your Lordship wil be as good as your word not to cast upon me an aspersion or Censure of the least touch of Insolâ—nâ—ie or madnesse But this indeed I must confesse unto you and professe before all the world that in a Cause so weighty as this wherein I find my Lord Iesus Christ so deeply ingaged so much dishonoured and his onely true Faith and Religion so much depressed and disparaged and that by so great a Prelate I must crave pardon if herein I be both zealous and plain with you And that so much the more that one so Great I say so high in favour in Court and so potent and prevalent in the State should so doe And to this purpose I remember another Speech in your Booke Worth is no necessary concluder for Truth For worth once misled is of all other the greatest misleader And such is
your whole Discourse So as I may see my Doom already set down in black and white that I must be Censured as one too busie or AllotroepÃoskopos playing the Bishop in anothers Diocese in our English Translation a busy body But I must beare it off with Head and Shoulders And as the Proverbe is Over Shooes over Bootes I have already waded through the Fords of your Dedicatory and now I must launch into the Deep of your Discourse And there 's now no returning Nor have I put my hand to the Plough to turn up your weeds by the roots to look backe or desist for feare to be censured as one too busie Yea all my businesse is about particulars and namely such as summed up together in the totall conclude you to be though not a profest Invader yet a most subtile and pragmaticall Enginer and underminer of that Truth of Christ in the Scripture which yet the Gates of Hell shall never prevaile against L. p. 4. Bellarmine of very great ability to make good any truth which he undertakes for the Church of Rome P. What one thing I pray which Bellarmine undertakes to make good for the Church of Rome as the Church of Rome is a truth I say as the Church of Rome For what he undertakes to make good for the Church of Rome properly must needs be some point of Popery or Popish Doctrine Otherwise he undertakes not to make it good as for the Church of Rome Now the Church of Rome as it is the Church of Rome namely the Papall Church holds not any one Saving Truth I say againe it holds not any one Saving Truth I shall prove this more particularly at after Yet you seem to intimate here that either all or most things so undertaken by him are truth But the contrary will appeare So as what things are in themselves false and erronious can by no humane ability either of that Champion of Rome Bellarmine or of the great Champion of the present Church of England be so made good as to deserve the name of Truth L. ibid. After Bellarmine hath distinguished â—o expresse his Meaning in what sence the particular Church of Rome cannot Erre in things which are de Fide of the Faith he tells us this Firmitude is because the Sea Apostolicke is fixed there And this he saith is most true P. Your last words here are somewhat darke whether we should take them for Bellarmines words he saith or for your owne assent therein And this he saith is most true This Later is the Likelier And then againe here is another doubt whether And this he saith is very true it be referred to the whole Sentence going before and alledged by you or onely to the Last Clause If to the whole Sentence then in Saying And this he saith is most true you assent that Romes infallibility consists in the Firmitude of the Sea Apostolicke fixed there Which you seem afterwards more expresly to contradict But if onely to the Last Clause your Speech hath reference And this he saith is most true then first you should have expressed it more Clearely and punctually as in some things you doe But taking it in the best sense you confesse it is most true that the Sea Apostolicke is fixed there thus you give occasion of Dispute about Peters being at Rome and of his being Bishop of Rome and if so whether consequently Rome be yet the Sea Apostolicke But because your words here are not Cleare enough and at after you declare your selfe herein more plainly what we have to say of this we will reserve to a fitter place L. p. 23. I shall ever be glad that the Church of England may have farre more able Defendants then my selfe P. Certainly the Church of England her selfe may be glad hereof to vindicate her Reputation which you by this your Defence have layd flat in the dust But May have seems to import that now she hath not at least now that Dr. White is dead Nor hath the Church of England any great cause to glory in either of you both as Defendants unlesse by the Church of England you understand that new Start-up Faction of Arminianized and Iesuited Atheists whose Standard-beares you have been and are to bring the whole Land backe againe to Rome and so to make a full League and Confederacie against the true Church of Iesus Christ. L. p. 29. Things not Fundamentall yet to some mens Salvation are neâ—essary P. How prove you this Seeing what is necessary to some mens Salvation is necessary to all and every mans Salvation And Fundamentalls onely to wit Such things as are de Fide of Faith are the onely things necessary to every mans Salvation According to the Athanasius his Creed Whosoever will be Saved it is necessary that he hold the Catholicke Faith which Faith unlesse a man keep whole and undefiled without doubt he shall perish everlastingly For the Catholicke Faith comprehends all Fundamentalls which to violate in any one particular overthrowes the Faith and cuts a man off from Salvation But your adding of other things besides and unto the Fundamentalls as necessary to Some mens Salvation doth necessarily inferre this Consequence that there be other things besides Christ which are necessary to Some mens Salvation And so you make Christ an insufficient Saviour to some men at least as to whose Salvation things not Fundamentall are necessary For things not Fundamentall are extra Christum out of or without Christ. Whereas the Scripture Saith of CHRIST That there is no Salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given whereby Dei sothenai emas we Must be Saved which words doe plainly evince that besides Christ nothing under heaven is necessary to any mans Salvation But give us some one particular instance of such things as being not fundamentall yet are necessary to some mens Salvation You tell us of certain I wot not what Deductions from the Articles of Faith which you make to be your Not-Fundamentall and yet necessary to some mens Salvation but for our better Information you particularize in nothing neither in the things nor in the persons for whose Salvation they are necessary but leave all in the Cloudes the fittest manâ—le to foldâ—up such foule and blind errours in L. p. 31. The Churches Declaration can bind us to peace and externall obedience where there is no expresse Letter of Scripture and Sense agreed upon P. By the Latitude of this Sentence you or your Church of England may as you have done by your Declaration prefixed to your Articles of Religion as before bind Ministers not to preach of those Doctrines of Grace as Election Predestination c. because though there be expresse Letter of Scripture for them yet the Sense is so farre from being agreed upon by your present Church as that you Say plainly they may be taken in two opposite Senses So as upon this your Churches Declaration of the ambiguities of your Articles you
have stopped all the Ministers mouthes binding them to peace and externall obedience Although I cannot yet conceive how that Declaration should be the Church of Englands though published in the Kings Name and perhaps compiled in the Conclave of Canterbury And thus also that Order for the Altar of S. GREGORIES which yet is but Dormant in Cryptis not published in Print in which respect it cannot be called the Declartion of the Church yet must be of force to bind all Ministers to Peace and Obedience first to Peace not to speake a word against Altars for his Eares and next to Obedience that if he refuse to have an Altar set up in his Church himselfe shal be made a Sacrifice But why should such an Order thus bind I must crave pardon for making Question And the rather because your Lordship here gives us a Rule or Canon saying The Churches Declaration can bind us to Peace and externall Obedience where there is no expresse Letter of Scripture and Sense agreed on Now though we have expresse Letter of Scripture proving Christ to be the onely Altar of Christians as before is shewed yet because this sense is not agreed on by your Lordship and so by your present Church of England therefore men must be peaceable and obedient in that point and quietly submit to Authority in the admitting and the Adoring too if you will of Altars in every Church And so in all other your superstitious Ceremonies of what force is the expresse Letter of the Scripture where the Sense of it is not by you and your Church agreed upon To give an Instance or two more This is my Body the Sense of these words is not agreed on between your Church of England and that of Rome though you are in Substance both one Church what then Ergo Ministers are bound to Peace and Obedience in not medling to or fro with the manner How Christ is present in the Sacrament though your Article of the Lords Supper doth declare it both affirmatively and negatively how it is and is not but to content themselves with Really which is a very peaceable word about which Rome and you have no great reason to fall at oddes Againe for bowing at the nameing of the Name Iesus although you have no expresse Letter of Scripture for it no not Phil. 2.10 where it is Said En to onómati In or as your Translation hath it at the name of Iesus every knee should bow but it is not Said En to onomazethai tò onoma Iesoun or Iesous In the naming of the name Iesus every knee should bow So as that place is plainly expounded and agreed on by other places of Scripture as Isa. 45.23 and Rom. 14.10 as some of your old English Bibles note those places in the Margent over against the place as in that of Isaiah there is set in in the Margent Rom. 14.10 and Phil. 2.10 all which three places unanimously shew the universall Subjection of all Creatures in heaven and earth and under the earth to Christ in the day of Iudgement yet because this Sense is not agreed on by the present Church of England therefore her Declaration in her Canon binds all to Peace and Obedience to Peace in not speaking or writing against bowing at the nameing of the name Iesus nor in preaching to expound the Letter of Scripture Phil. 2.10 by the plain sense of other Scriptures as afore cited and to Obedience by bowing themselves when they heare that Name to be named So as your Lordships Rule here is very usefull for many things although you have neither Letter nor Sense of Scripture for them L. p. 32. The power of adding any thing contrary and detracting any thing necessary are alike forbidden No power of the Church can doe this P. This Sentence you alledge out of Vincentius and allow it So as it is to be accounted your owne Confession which I suppose you will not deny Whereupon you with your Church fall under just condemnation both for adding things contrary and detracting things necessary For you adde to the service of God as you call it your Altars and sundry other superstitionâ— which the Scripture excludes and condemnes and so are contrary and you detract things necessary as Preaching of the saving Doctrines of Grace Preaching on the Lords dayes in the after noon Preaching Week-day Lectures and Cathechising by expounding the Grounds of Religion Which things are necessary profitable and usefull to the people of God and which God commaundeth as 2 Tim. 3.15.16 and 4.1.2 Gal. 6.6 Let him that is Katekoúmenos Cathechised in the word communicate To katekounti to him that Catechiseth or instructeth him in all good things Thus you and your Church take upon you to do those things which are alike forbidden and which no power of the Church can doe though you can L. p. 35. Wrangle while you will you shall never be able to prove that any thing which is but de modo a consideration of the manner of being onely can possibly be fundamentall in the Faith P. Wrangle I will not but prove that some things which are de modo considered in the manner of being onely not onely may possibly but are really in that very respect fundamentall in the Faith So as to deny them or not to beleeve them is in it selfe damnable And hereof I shall give some Instances 1. Christs body in receiving of the Sacrament is to be considered in the mâ—nnâ—r of its being present to the beleeving Communicant In so much as to exclude such manners of being present as doe destroy either the Article of his perpetuall Residence in heaven till his câ—ming againe or the truth of his Naturall Body doth deny and destroy two Articles of the Faith 1. touching Christs sitting 〈◊〉 tâ—e rigâ—â— hand of God from whence he shall come to Judgemâ—â—â— and 2 ly that he was borne of the Virgin Mary with a true humane body As the Papists apprehending and beleeving Christs naturall body to be locally present in the Eucharist doe thereby overthrow his perpetuall residence in heaven till his coming againe and withall the truth of his naturall body which being a true naturall body with all its naturall properties cannot be locally or corporally in many places at one and the same time which yet the corporall presence in the Eucharist doth necessarily import And if the truth of Christs naturall body be destroyed as by the Manichees and other Hereticks Christ is wholly evacuated and shall profit nothing Besides this Popish beliefe of Christs corporall Presence in their Eucharist makes Christs natural body which hath its dimensions of length breadth thicknesse to be a meere fantasticall and imaginaâ—y body as being contained within the narrow circle and compasse of a thinne Wafer-cake and so they destroy Christs body And so also in that they beleeve they eat this body of Christ which is to destroy it as 1 Cor. 6.13 And this beliefe of Christs corporall presence as aforesaid
destroyes spirituall communion with Christ and with the Holy Ghost and consequently the Article of faith concerning the Communion of Saints For Christ saith to his Disciples I tell you the truth it is expedient for you that I goe away for if I goe not away the Comforter will not come unto you but if I depart I will send him unto you So as to beleeve Christ to be corporally present on earth and that men have by that meanes a corporall communion with him doth debarre such men from all communion of the Spirit of Christ. And If any man have not the Spirit of Christ the same is none of his He hath not Christ that hath not his Spirit and he hath not Christs Spirit that rests in the beliefe of Christs corporall presence on earth as before For except I depart saith Christ that is except I be absent from you as concerning my corporall presence the Comforter will not come unto you And thus by a false beliefe of the very manner onely of Christs presence in the Popish Eucharist Christ the Foundation is overthrowne And this errour de modo of the manner of being onely overthrowing the Foundation must needs be a Fundamentall errour if any errour may be said to be Fundamentall My Second Instance is about Christs humane Nature de modo Subsistendi of its manner of subsisting in the Person of the Son of God For to beleeve that it is either after the manner or way of Commixtion or by adherence as one thing cleaving to another or Inherence as an Accident in the Subject or by Conversion into the divine nature or by Concomitancie as Bellarmine saith Christs divinity and soule is present with his body in the Eucharist by Concomitancie all these manners doe destroy the personall union of Christs two natures in one person As those two Hereticks Nestorius and Eutiches the one condemned in the Councel of Ephesus the other in the Councel of Chalcedon the later for holding that Christ had but one Nature the humane converted into the Divine Nature the other that Christ had two Persons both these destroyed Christ the Mediator who is not a Mediator unlesse he be both God and Man in one Person Christ. So Bellarmines devise in holding Christs divine nature and humane soule to be present in and with that body which they frame unto him in the Masse by way of Concomitancie as being inseperable companions destroyes the Sacrifice of Christs Passion wherein the soule of Christ was in death seperated from his body untill his Resurrection Now the Papists say they offer up Christs body in the Masse as representing the Sacrifice of his death and Passion Which how can it be when they say his soule is by concomitancie with his body offered up So as all this while there is no representative or Commemorative much lesse a propitiatory Sacrifice of Christs death Seing in that body as they say Christs soule is inseperably present And againe to say Christs divine nature is present with that body of Concomitancie this destroyes the Personall union For Concomitancie is no personall union of the two natures concomitancie being but an accompanying of each other Whereas the divine nature of Christ doth not accompany the humane nature but assumes it and the humane nature doth not accompany the divine but subsists in it Thus it is cleare that the Consideration of the manner of being onely may possibly prove to be Fundamentall in the Faith L. p. 37. All which pertaines to Supernaturall Divine and infallible Christian faith is not by and by fundamentall in the Faith to all men P. You told us before That things not fundamentall yet to some mens Salvation are necessary and here that all that pertaines to Christian faith is not fundamentall in the faith to all men It seems you have some peculiar way to heaven which is not common to all But take heed least leaving the common road-way of true Saving Faith attended with a holy life you fayle of heaven I am the way the Truh and the Life saith Christ. And is not Christ this way Truth and Life to all that are Saved Is not he to all such as are called both Iewes and Greekes Christ the Power of God and the Wisdome of God But what doe I speake to you of Christ or what doe you speake of Christian faith that know not what Christian faith is otherwise then as you discerne in it some thing for which in whomsoever you find it you persecute it to the death L. p. 39. If new Doctrines be added to the old the Church may be changed in Lupanar errorum which I am loth to English P. Nay are you not ashamed to English it For this you Speake of the Church of Rome and you have told us that the Church of England and of Rome are one and the Same Church And now you Say If new Doctrines be added to the old the Church may be changed in Lupanar errorum And this the Church of Rome hath done as you elsewhere affirme She hath added new Doctrines to the old and such new as She doth with the old aâ— men doe when they put on a new suit make the old a Cast suit But because you are loth to English in Lupanar errorum for the reverend respect you beare to that Venerable Apostolick Sea I will doe as much for you as to English it If new Doctrines be added to the Old as the Church of Rome hath done the Church may be changed into a Stewes of Errours This Phrase you take out of Vincentius Lyrenensis his Sentence quoted in the Margent which is this in English The Church by adding new Doctrines to the old becomes a Stewes of impious and beastly Errours which was before a Sacrary of chast and undefiled verity Whence I note how you not onely smother some of his words but smooth others Saying for The Church becomes a Stewes The Church may be changed So as herein you falsify the worthy Saying of Vincentius when you make but a May be of his Is made But let the Conclusion be If a Church be turned Whore 't is good that all should know her to be so in plain English that they may avoyd her and as Salomon saith remove their way farre from her and not come neere the dore of her house And for this Cause have I taken the Paines to be your Translator L. p. 39. Some Decisions yea and of the Church toâ— are made or may be if Stapleton informe us right without an evident nay without so much as a probable testimony of holy writ But Bellarmine falls quite off and confesses in expresse termes that nothing can be certaine by certainty of Faith unlesse it be contained immediately in the word of God or be deduced out of the word of God by evident consequence And if nothing can be certain then certainly no Determination of the Church it selfe if that Determination be not grounded upon
one of these either expresse word of God or evident consequence â—ut of it And a little before Every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose the Determinations of the Church no not when they are Dogmata deposita Deposed Principles P. Now all these Passages weighed together do clearely and distinctly resolve themselves into these Conclusions 1. That the Church may decide and determine some things without any evidence or so much as a probable Testimony of holy Writ and herein you consent and jumpe fully with that notorious Papist and adversary of the once Church of England Stapleton whom the learned Dr. Whitakers publickly confuted in the Divinity Schooles in Cambridge as his Works can yet testifie And yet behold now the Church of England hath got a Champion in the Chaire of Canterbury who pleads for and applauds that in Stapleton which Dr. Whitakers and many other learned Divines in England formerly have refuted And for further Confirmation hereof you tax Bellarmine as of untruth where he confesses that nothing may be certaine by certâ—inty of Faith unlesse it be contained immediately in the word of God or be deduced thence by evident consequence Whereupon you inferre that if nothing can be certaine then certainly no Determination of the Church it selfe wanting expresse word or evident Consequence out of it Thus you condemne Bellarmines true Saying if by the Word of God he understand the Scriptum alone and not his word unwritten and approve and preferre Stapletons false and hereticall sentence before it Secondly That things so decided and determined by the Church without either evident or so much as probable Testimony of holy writ yet are so de fide so firmely to be beleeved as every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose Consonant hereunto you â—ay at after pag. 224. The Determination of a Generall Councel â—â—ring is to stand in force and to have externall obedience at least yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary make the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority do reverse it And so also pag. 226. c. Where here I mention for clearer proofe of what you say here but not to anticipate or prevent our fuller Answere when we come to those places where we shall supply our brevity here L. p. 40. I hope A. C. will not tells us there 's any Tradition extant unwritten by which particular men may have assurance of their Severall Salvations P. But what think you of it Will you tell us there is no such thing written in the Scripture That true Beleevers may have assurance of their owne Salvation But if there be why doe you forbid Preachers to meddle with it considering the true and solid comfort which it bringeth to him that hath it As the 17 th Article confesseth might it be suffered to speake out and had you not put a gagge in the mouth of it L. p. 43. Mine is That the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God and infallible is an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith wâ—th or rather to the whole body of the Creed P. How The Belief of Scripture to be Gods word and infallible no more but an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith with or rather to the whole body of the Creed This is yours you say your Saying And I beleeve it to be yours For it is as like to one of your Sayings as may be For here you attribute no more credit to the Scriptures then to the Creed both equall onely differing perhaps in point of some precedencie of time or So with an or rather equall or rather preceding the difference not great if any Thus doe you not equall a Church Tradition with the Divine Scripture For we have it by Tradition that the Apostles compiled the Creed and each his Severall Article And is this or any other Tradition of equall Credit with Scripture And is not the Scripture the Rule whereby the Articles of the Creed are to be interpreted which are no otherwise to be beleeved but as they are agreeable to the Scripture So as for the Purpose if you goe no further for the Sense of the Article of Christs Descent into hell then the very Letter of the Article you can make no Sense of it nor give any reason for it And how then can you give a reason of your Faith in this particular Except you do beleeve it because you do beleeve it and because the words are He Descended into Hell But of this more by and by L. p. 44. Some Traditions I deny not c. to be Apostolicall but yet not fundamentall in the Faith P. You might do well to point out unto us which be those your Apostolicall Traditions that we may distinguish them from those Traditions which Rome calls Apostolicall Or rather perhaps you admit of all those as Apostolicall indeed but yet not Fundamentall Surely if you can prove them to be truely Apostolicall namely that the Apostles delivered them immediately to the Church by word of mouth why are they not fundamentall in the faith Why are not all bound to beleeve them or give as much Credit to them as to the Articles of your Creed which you Say are fundamentall in the faith L. p. 45. The Church of England taketh the words He descended into hell as they are in the Creed and beleeves them without further Dispute and in that Sense which the ancient Primitive Fathers of the Church agreed in P. Here a Question may be moved 1. In generall Whether a man taking up a matter upon such trust as he gives equall beliefe unto it as to the Scriptures themselves doe not therein Sinne damnably As making that a fundamentall ground of his Faith which is not found to be in the Scripture Secondly in particular Whether a man resting in the very Letter of the Article He descended into Hell beleeving thâ—reupon as surely as he beleeves that God is in Heaven that Christs Soule did locally descend into Hell among the damned there having no regard at all to what the Scripture Saith of it whether the Scripture Say any such thing or no doe not hereby make way for his owne Descent into Hell Or thirdly Whteher you do as verily and firmly beleeve Christs Descent into Hell as you doe his Ascent into Heaven Seeing the Scriptures Speakes clearely and expresly of this but not so of that and whether you are aâ— much bound to beleeve his Descent into Hell because you find such words in the Creed as his Ascent into Heaven because you find it in the Scripture Now for Answere to all these together I conceive that to make any thing of the necessity of Faith to Salvation besides what is found in the Scripture is Sinne and in particular to beleeve that because it is Said in the Creed He Descended into Hell therefore Christ
your 16 th Sextion mentioned before which continueth from p. 59. to 116. wherein are sundry passages â—o this purpose whereof the last was one and the rest we shall touch as we meet with them And here I cannot though I said I would no more wonder but admire that such Speeches should flow down so fast from the Sea of Canterbury which is a mighty Catarrhact or distillation of the eye drowning the sight and flowing from such an abundant humour in the head as it is like to turne into a Dropsie possessing and putrifying the whole body which if not prevented by some remedy from hâ—aven must needs prove Epedemically mortall You are the first Antagonist of Iesuites that ever uttered such things and you might well have given them leave to utter such base Speeches of the holy Scriptures as more proper for a Jesuite then one pretending the Faith of a Protestant But the difference is not great nor matters is much which of you be the mouth having all one Spirit and being all one and the Same Church So as being the Metropolitan of that Church which with Rome is one and the Same you have the greater priviledge to speake in the language of that pregnant Mother who is so full of the names of Blasphemy against the word of God Now is not the Scripture so demonstratively evident in it selfe as to enforce assent What then shall doe it Probable Arguments from the light of Nature But Nature is blind as we shewed before of naturall Reason And againe how can that which is but probable confirme that which is truth For the Scripture is Truth it selfe As Christ saith Thy word is Truth Now there being strictly no proportion between Probability and Truth how can the Light of Nature which you say is but probable confirme that which is truth And we shewed also how the Naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God which things are contained in the Scripture But you adde Arguments from humane Testimony confirme the Scriptures to be Gods word That which is but humane cannot strengthen that which is Divine I receive not the Testimony of man saith Christ. So the Scripture is so farre above humane testimony that it can receive no strength from it no more then God can receive strength from the creature Gods word from mans word And the Scripture being Gods written word is above Mans bare word As Christ tells the Jewes who took Christ for a meere Man If ye beleeve not Moses his writings how shall you beleeve my words Thereby implying That Writings the Scripture are above mans words Againe humane testimony in Comparison to Gods word is but a lye For every man is a lyer Moreover in saying The Scripture is not evident enough to demonstrate it selfe to be the word of God and to enforce assent but being strenthened by Probable Arguments from the light of Nature and of humane Testimony 't is then wilfullnesse and pride to suspect it Here you set the light of Nature above the word of Grace probability above Truth humane Testimony above Divine Man above GOD. For Christ tells us that the Scriptures beare witnesse of him And you Say the Scriptures are not sufficient witnesses of themselves and so consequently of Christ without mans testimony So as hereby you disable the Scripture as being an incompetent witnesse of Christ because not evident enough in themselves without humane Testimony So as how you can cleare your selfe from blasphemy I see not But this is but one degree For you adde The light which is in Scripture is not light enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesse to it selfe Now you open your mouth a little wider to blaspemy But we shall have yet more of ths Suffe out of your Wardrobe Of which I may say this by the way That you bewray how grosly and palpably blind you are in discerning the Scriptures glorious brightnesse being like that Woman in Lipsius who being blind her selfe blamed the house she was in for being very darke So you because you are blind your selfe the god of this world having blinded your eyes therefore you blame the holy Scriptures of GOD for being darke not bright enough to to beare witnesse to it selfe Why Surely all light is Sui index sui Communicativum it is a witnesse to it selfe that it shineth So as all in the house doe see it yea though it be but the light of a Candle as Christ saith If therefore the Scriptures have not so much light in them as all may see it to shine forth then they have no light at all For if there be any light at all it will shew it selfe But this you will not stick to tell us anon that the Scripture hath no light in it selfe and therefore no mervaile if here you say the Light that is in it is not bright enough And you tell us here also That the Testimony of the Holy Ghost ordinarily is not so much as considerable in this Question Why What is the Question Is it not how or by what meanes we beleeve the Scriptures to be the word of GOD Is not this the Subject Question of this whole 16 th Section and which you handle throughout And this being so have you forgotten what you told us before of this beliefe that the Scripture is the word of GOD Namely that faith is the gift of God of God alone and an infused habit in respect whereof the Soule is meerely recipient and that the sole infuser is the Holy Ghost and Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve And now doe you come and tell us The Holy Ghost ordinarily is not so much as considerable in the Question Yea but here you tell us this is not the Question What then Namely how the Scripture may be proposed as a Credible Object fit for beliefe And for this you set us downe a rule of Proposall which must of necessity take its rise from the Tradition or Authority of the Present Church Whereof we shall heare more anon But by your leave this is not the Question but the other For this your manner of Proposall you put it not as a Question but as an a'Ãtema a Question begged not to be argued and disputed upon as the nature of a Question is to be but you doe dogmatÃzein obtrude and force upon us a novell opinion of your owne devising without proofe of Reason Argument or Authority from the Scripture And therefore we deny your Question or Position as Heterodox or a Paradox contrary to the truth of God word which is the onely rule of determining all Questions in Divinity about faith whereof this is not the least How or by what meanes a man comes to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God Now for the determining herof you would tye us to the one only manner of Proposing the Scripture as a Credible object fit for beliefe and that is necessarily to
as you imposed upon me So as No Right that is No Orthodox Church at Rome And yet no newes it is that I granted the Roman Church to be a true Church For so much very learned Protestants have acknowledged before me and the Truth cannot deny it For that Church which receives the Scripture as the Rule of Faith though but as a partiall and imperfect Rule and both the Sacraments as instrumentall Causes and seales of Grace though they adde more and infuse these yet cannot but be a True Church in Essence How it is in manners and Doctrine I would you would loâ—ke to it with a single eye P. Not Right then not Orthodox you hold the Church of Rome to be That 's somthing yet Yet True you ever have and will hold her to be unlesse she absolutely fall away from the Faith Well And yet I wot well you give absolutely falling away from the Faith So large bounds as it is to be feared you will never come to give her for absolutely gone and fallen away from the Faith so long as she can have but one bare thread or ragge of the profession of the Faith of the Creed nay if she can but say over her Creed though as you Confesse elsewhere she hath quite overthrown the sense of it And if the sense of it be destroyed surely the Faith of it also This will more fully appeare as we goe along We come to your Reasons why you hold Rome a True Church 1. For very learned Protestants which hold with you in this First we can set both as learned and double the number of of Protestants who will weigh down the Scale against those that seem to be of your opinion Secondly we could out of those very Protestant Authors whom you mean though I suppose you seldome read such Authors and in other things scarce name them Honoris causa collect more against this opinion That the Church of Rome is a true Church then you can for it As out of Iunius himselfe for Instance I mentioned before a laâ—e Book intituled Babel no Bethel never yet answered by any Jesuite or other Priest Romish or English where the Author hath cleared all or most of those Protestants which his Adversaries alledged and I suppose you meane from this opinion of yours And then also the Author proves by many concluding Arguments and in my opinion unanswerable that the Church of Rome is no true visible Church of Christ as having lost the very Essence of a true Church To which Booke I referre your Lordship could your patience but brook the Authors name or your Conscience not tremble at the mention of him To your Second Reason First I deny that the Church of Rome receives the Scriptures as A Rule of Faith For first The Rule of Faith must be in it selfe simply Divine and Infallible But such to the Church of Rome the Scripture is not For she makes the Infallibility and Divine Authority of the Scripture to depend upon the Church as you do upon Church Tradition which you confesse to be not simply Divine and Infallible Ergo Rome receives not the Scripture as A Rule of Faith Secondly Rome receives not holds not The Rule of Faith Ergo she is not a true Church As the late Dr Carleton of Chichester in his Book of the Church hath well and learnedly proved For not to hold the Rule of Faith is to deny and destroy the Faith and to fall absolutely away from the Foundation of Faith and to set up a new and false Faith upon a new and false Foundation Nor dare or doe you say that Rome receives the Scripture as The Rule of Faith but onely as A Rule of Faith to wit a partiall Rule as Bellarmine calls it But if the Scripture be as it is The onely Rule of Faith and ever hath been in all ages so held till Rome in the Councel of Trent changed this Rule then not to hold it so for The Rule that is the onely Rule but onely as a partiall Rule joyned with other Rules equall to it as her Traditions which Bellarmine in his Book de verbo Dei non scripto calls the word of God unwritten is to reject the onely Rule and so to fall absolutely away from the Faith And you confesse that the Church of Rome holds the Scripture but as a partiall and imperfect Rule And is this nothing with you What is this but to evacuate and utterly make voyd the Rule when for a perfect intire and absolute onely Rule it is made but a partiall imperfect and joynt Rule And when humane Authority is equalled with Divine Humane Traditions with Divine Scriptures as an equall Rule of Faith Nay and those her Traditions which she calls her word of God unwritten are such as teach things directly contrary to the Doctrines of Scripture as of Purgatory Invocation of Saints and the like Is not this a'kurosai as Christ saith to make voyd and of no Authority the Commandements of God by mens Tradition Yet this Camel you can easily swallow you slight this over as a matter of nothing as if it were all one thing in a manner to hold the Scripture The Rule of Faith and A Rule of Faith namely a part or piece of the Rule The whole Rule and a partiall Rule The onely perfect Rule and An imperfect Rule All this breakes no squares with you but that Rome for all this holds the Rule of Faith and therfore you hold her for a true Church of Christ. But yet in so saying you plainly imply That if Rome held not the Rule of Faith she is no true Church of Christ but is absolutely fallen away from Christ the Foundation For you give this for a Reason that Rome is a true Church because she holds the Rule of Faith Ergo If she hold not the Rule of Faith she is no true Church of Christ but is absolutely fallen away from the Faith Whereupon I argue thus That Church which denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute perfect Rule of Faith is fallen absolutely away from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church that is to have the very Essence and beeing of a true Church of Christ But the Church of Rome denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute Perfect Rule of Faith Ergo the Church of Rome is absoluely fallen away from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church that is to have the very Essence and beeing of a true Church of Christ. The Minor Proposition is confessed by your Lordship For you say The Church of Rome holds the Scripture but as A Rule a Partiall Rule an Imperfect Rule Thus she denyeth the Scripture to be the onely Intire Absolute Perfect Rule of Faith And for the Major Proposition you doe by necessary Consequence confesse it also to be true For you set it down as a Reason why you hold the Church of Rome to be a true Church because she holds the
Rule of Faith the Scripture Implying that to hold the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith is one speciall note of A true Church But now you confesse againe that Rome holds not this Rule but as a partiall and imperfect Rule And therefore denying this Rule of Faith she ceaseth to be a pure Church of Christ And which is the more this the Church of Rome doth ex professo solemni Decreto professedly and by solemne Decrees ratified as irrefragable and that under Anathema to be received of all And this is farre more then to doe it by Practise onely And yet in Practise to destroy and overthrow but onely some speciall Doctrines of Scripture though otherwise the Scripture be professed and confessed in this or that particular Church to be the intire and onely Rule of Faith is de facto to disclaime the whole Scripture and to unmake it the perfect Rule of Faith and so thereby such a Church possessing such and such Errors as are Fundamentall that is against the Foundation is fallen from Christ as hath been formerly proved Now if but any one part of Scripture in this or that Doctrine of Christ be overthrown so as therein it is not made the Rule of Faith and this overthrowing such Doctrines being once professed and maintained generally in any one particular Church makes that Church to cease to be a true Church of Christ as not holding the Scripture intirely but professedly overthrowing it in such and such particulars then how much more the Church of Rome professing and maintaining gumne kephale with a whores forehead that the holy Scripture is not the onely Rule of Faith intire and perfect but partiall and imperfect as your Lordship confesseth doth thereby proclaime her selfe to all the world to be fallen away absolutely from Christ and so ceaseth to be a true Church of God And denying the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith she denyeth the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone and so is fallen quite from the Foundation Nor onely thus by Addition of another Rule doth the Church of Rome overthrow the onely Rule of Faith the Scriptures but also by denying the selfe Authority of them as also you doe and withall by tying the sense of Scripture to the interpretation of the Church as also you doe at least in difficult places and by holding and maintaining false Doctrines against the Scriptures which overthrow Christ and wherein they will not be regulated by the Scriptures as you also doe in your Altars and forbidding the Doctrines of Grace to be Preached and other things which if the Church of England hold with the Church of Rome and with you you and both your Churches are fallen absolutely from Christ and so cease to be true Churches of God As also your very Hierarchy makes you to be no true Church of Christ were there nothing else as before is sufficiently proved And if you desire any further proofe that the Church of Rome is no true Church of Christ I still referre you to the forementioned Book Babel no Bethel And though you supprest the Book yet ten to one but one of your Hounds will hunt it out for you Next for the Sacraments which is your second Reason you say The Church of Rome holds both the Sacraments as instrumentall Causes and Seales of Grace though they adde more and misuse these Ergo she cannot but be a true Church in Essence For Answere First she holds them not absolutely to be Sacraments but dependently upon the Priests intention which you mention elsewhere And so hath the Councel of Trent defined of the Sacraments so Vega so Bellarmine Secondly if she be sure the Priests intention be not wanting or going a wool-gathering in his Consesecration then she makes the Sacraments to be not Instrumentall Causes of Graces but aitia kúria Principall and efficient working causes of Grace ex opere operato as they barbarously speake by the immediate vertue of the worke wrought So the Councel of Trent also So as they shut out the Holy Ghost from this worke as the Principall Efficient worker and sealer of Grace Thirdly For Baptisme which you make to be an Infallible Marke of that Church to be Christian besides their infinite corruptions of the Element of water which the Apostle calleth pure water with their spittle salt creame exorcismes or conjurations of the Devils insultations and the like they hang the very beeing not onely the vertue of this Sacrament upon the Priests intention which intention of the Priest is so uncertaine as Vega one of the prime Sticklers in the Councel of Trent as aforesaid in his Booke upon the Councel of Trent especially the sixt Session where he treateth of certainty of Faith in Iustification Confesseth that there can be no certainty of Salvation to a man because he cannot be certain whether he hath true Baptisme or no and that in regard of the Priests intention whereof he cannot be certaine So as by this their own Doctrine no one Papist can be sure that he is a Christian and so consequently neither can all the members of that Church severally nor conjunctly the whole Body it selfe be sure whether they or it be Christian or no and so the Church of Rome upon this very ground cannot resolve certainly whether she be a Church of Christ or no unlesse your Testimony will help her out at a dead lift And that not onely in regard of the Priests intention in the Sacrament of Baptisme but also in their Additionall Sacrament of Orders one of these more which they have added to the two So as for default of the Popes intention in ordering of Prelates or of the Prelates invention in ordering one another and in ordering of Priests and of Priests intention in Consecrating their Sacrament of Baptisme as themselves Vega and others do argue the case they are all put to the stagger whether they have in that Church either Priesthood or Sacraments For all hangs upon that weake pin or haire of the Priests intention So as another of their Primipili a Standard-bearer of the Dominicans in the same Councell Dominicus Soto forementioned in his Book de natura gratia saith that Deus in potestate Sacerdotis posuit Populi salutem GOD hath put the peoples Salvation in the Priests power Now all this considered and withall the time when this was made a Decree in the Councel of Trent a matter of 100 yeares agoe and when it was but new and the Pope and Prelates and Priests could not perhaps of a good while learne their lesson perfectly and so get a habit of it but that in all their Consecration of Prelates and Priests still intention was to seek and where it breakes off as in the Pope and Prelates in their Consecration of Orders there followes a meere nullity in succession of the whole Generation of Priests downwards and so through that whole body no Priesthood now no Sacraments
when men sheere their Goates so in this respect you may safely say That when Romes errours and Superstitions are removed our Protestations and Seperation is ended And so may I. L p. 136. Protestants doe but protest the sincerity of their Faith against the Doctrinall corruption which hath invaded the great Sacrament of the Eucharist and other parts of Religion P. Well were it for you and your present Church of England as you have lately made it or would at least make it if you had such sincerity of Faith to protest against Romes doctrinall corruptions as true Protestants have But why doe you call the Lords supper The Great Sacrament of the Eucharist Is it Great because you give it a Name not known in Scripture Or because it is so grandized in the Church of Rome as it is made like the Great Diana of the Ephesians whom all the Pontifician world worshipeth Or it is Great comparatively to Baptisme because this is celebrated in the Font at the Church doore neere the Belfrey and That upon your high Altar which you have advanced at the chiefe as you esteem it and East end af your Chancels and of your stately Cathedrals Or Great because in your Devotion you bow towards that place whence it seems you look for your help yea so lowly fall down and worship before it as before the Lord your maker Or what is it that your Eucharist is become with you so Great a Sacrament Because it or your selfe is Great with Child of a young new God-Almighty But however For my part I reverence every Ordinance of God but I dare not make nor esteem them greater then God hath made them nor give them other Names and Titles then God hath given them least I either seem to be wiser then my Maker and their Author or should give more honour to them then is due this being as wofull experience hath taught the ready way to rob God of his honour to transferre it to the creature and set it up instead of God But loth you are I know to call the Sacrament the Lords Supper as the Scripture calls it least it might call for the Lords Table as the Scripture also terms it and so your high Altar should have no more Room in the Church But doe the true Protestants protest the sincerity of their Faith onely against the Doctrinall Faith which hath invaded your Great Sacrament of the Eucharist Yes you adde and other parts of Religion What be those That we may know those speciall Doctrinall Corruptions against which you say Protestants do protest the sincerity of their Faith For Rome hath many Doctrinall Corruptions against which true Protestants protest which you do not so much as mention in all your Book and such too as do â—â—atly overthrow the Foundation Christ. As Iustification by works for one which we have touched before Yea and Rome hath many and those most damnable corruptions which you are so farre from accounting corruptions as you make them Essentiall parts of Gods worship I name Altars for one Of which also before And these things we Protestants protest the sincerity of our Faith against But you are none of those Protestants as not professing much lesse protesting the sincerity of any such Faith L p. 138. A right sober man may without the least touch of insolence or madnesse dispute a businesse of Religion with the Roman either Church or Prelate as all men know Irenaeus did with Victor so it be with modesty and for the finding out or confirming of truth free from vanity and purposed opposition against even a particular Church P. This passage I cited before in my Preface to your Lordship yet I here recite it again because perhaps all wil be little enough to put you in mind therof For as I told you before the Greatnesse of the Cause hath caused my stile and Spirit to mount upon the wings of zeale for my Christ and for his Church in a higher degree and strain then ordinary And that for this you Censure me of insolence or madnesse as I feare it wil be the best defence you can make for your Cause alwayes excepted the Bill in Starre-Chamber I have no remedy but patience committing the Cause to him that judgeth rightly And as I have done it for the finding out of the truth so this hath caused me a great deale of moyle in digging and removing away a masse of earth and rubbedge which you had cast to hide this Treasure from us So as a purposed opposition was not it that set me upon this Great taske but yet I oppose you and purpose to detect your falsities so fairly guilded over with hypocrisie that you might not impose too much upon your Credulous Reader You aledge for this purpose the Example of Irenaeus arguing a Case with Victor Bishop of Rome which you say all men know But my Lord I suppose all men do not know it And because it is a matter both worthy and not unnecessary for all men to know it I will take occasion here to speake somthing of it as not impertinent also to our present purpose Towards the end of the second Century there was a difference between the Asian Church and the Roman about the Day of Celebrating the memory of the Lords Resurrection The contention grew hot as commonly men are most eagre in propounding their own devises in matter of Religion so as because the Asian Churches would not conforme to Victor Bishop of Rome he began to fume and to thunder and threaten them all with Excommunication Irenaeus who lived in France for this reproves Victor telling him that he ought not to proceed and deale so with Asian Churches for such differences as were of things at that time accounted Indifferent Some saith he fast one day before Easter some two some more some 40. houres together whereupon by the way it seems that those 40. houres were afterwards turned into forty dayes for your Lent Fast kaì cudèn élatton pà ntes oâ—uioi eirteneusà n tè kaì eireneúomen pròs alluious yet neverthelesse saith he all these lived peaceably together and we also are at peace one with another Kaì he diaphonìn tes nesteÃas tèn homónoian tes pÃstâ—os sunistesi And this difference about Fasting commendeth saith he the unity of Faith And he relates unto him also the examples of sundry of his Predecessors in the Sea of Rome who neither kept it themselves nor command of it to others and yet neverthelesse they that observed it not were at peace with those that came to them from the neighbour Churches or Congregations wherein it was observed Nor were any at any time cast out of the Church about the Manner or Custome But those Presbyters saith he who before you observed it not sent Commendations or kind salutations and greetings as tokens of Charity to those of other neighbouring Churches who did observe it And blessed Polycarpus sojourning at Rome in the time of
the making of it That is That it is ill very ill done of those who ever they be Papists or Protestants that give just cause to continue a seperation P. Here you speake plain Papists or Protestants and why not then Protestants as well as Papists that did very ill in making the seperation as they doe ill in continuing of it But yet your meaning here may possibly be that as it was ill done of the Roman party to give the first cause of the separation so it were no lesse ill done to continue the same cause to the continuing of the Schisme You may doe well to perswade Rome to lay down all her Corruptions which the Protestants have and doe protest against her that so if the Schisme be any longâ—r continued it may then appeare to be long of the Protestants â—ut if Rome be obstinate and incorrigible in her errors you have no reason to say it is ill done on the Protestant party to continue the Schisme But it may be perhaps ill done of the Protestant Church of England notwithstanding to continue the Schisme for as it may be well done of you to sowder it againe And therfore while the case is thus in agitation and Rome maks no more hast to meet you the multitude of her impedimenta bagge and baggage and all kind of Trumpery retaining her peace and which in no sort she will part withall and so will not stirre a foot over Tiber what 's wanting on her part you will supply with all expedition dressing up her sister the Church of England in Romes fashion unto such a conformity and symphony as promiseth a making up of the maâ—ch with all faults on both sides sooner perhaps then Rome could hope for L. ibid. The Kings and the Church of England had no reason to admit of a publick Dispute with the English Romish Clergy till they should be able to shew it under the Seale or Powers of Rome That that Church will submit to a third who may be an Indifferent Iudge between us and them or to such a Generall Councel as is after mentioned P. First the English Romish Clergie are by the Laws of England Traitors and therfore to be disputed withall at Tiburne So as if you put them to shew their warrant to dispute with you under Romes seale they will require of you perhaps to shew them under Englands seale an abrogation of the Laws against them And you tell us before that the Church of England knows well that a Parliament cannot be called at all times Nor will the Powers of Rome permit their Religion to be disputed on And whom will you chuse to dispute with them some peaceable men that will not be apt to fall out with the Jesuites your Lordship being Moderator But you know Rome denyes the Rule of Faith the Scripture And Contra negantem Principia non est disputandum Who shall else be the Umpier Who the Third Who the Indifferent Iudge Could both the Churches joyntly chuse a more Indifferent Iudge then your selfe Sure Rome her selfe would nominate you before Bellarmine himselfe if he were living A Generall Councel indeed of Romish English and other Prelates might do much so you should be sure to exclude all the Protestant Reformed Churches for wranglers as Franciscus à S. Clara well adviseth And then if a Generall Councel should reconcile and compose all differences though never so erroniously yet the Error must stand till another Generall Councel shall reverse it as you tell us at after But you adde L. p. ibid. and 146. And this is an honest and I think a full Answer And without this all Disputation must end in a clamour and therfore the more publick the worse because as the Clamour is the greater so perhaps wil be the Schisme too P Nay my Lord if you stand upon termes of honesty indeed you should have nominated the Scripture for the onely sufficient and upright Iudge between you This had been honest in one that professeth but the name onely of a Protestant But for that you told us enough before whereby we understand that this point of honesty is no part of your meaning But if your Answere were not in this respect honest I must tell you neither was it full but an empty and frivolous Answere To dispute of Divinity or Religion where Scripture is not the onely Iudge is as to judge of gold by the colour without the touchstone And so he that could shew the best colour for his matter by a false light should carry it away And I may say truely without the Scripture be Iudge your disputation must needs end in a clamour where the voyce of God is of no authority But then also if Scripture should be the Iudge you might well say The more publicke the worse For it is such a light as would discover all your fallacies and so raysing a clamour of the publicke Audience when they should observe such collusion between the English Clergie and the English Romists it might breed such a detestation against all Reconciliation with Rome as would make the rent the wider and so all your labour should be in vaine And then you might use the Proverbe As good never a whit as never the better L. p. 148. That there are errorr in Doctrine and some of them such as most manifestly indanger salvation in the Church of Rome iâ— evident to them that will not shut their eyes P. To indanger Salvation is much and for you to say so much is much too and you saying so much we need not make much doubt of the truth of that you say in this Case And yet in saying so much you speake not all truth The truth is as we have proved and shall yet further That Romes Errors in Doctrine are damnable and cannot consist with salvation as is evident to those whose eyes are truly opened L. ibid. A. C. himselfe confesses that error in Doctrine of the Faith is a just cause of seperation so just as that no cause is just but that Now had I leasure to descend into particulars or will to make the rent in the Church wider 't is no hard matter to prove that the Church of Rome hath erred in the Doctrine of Faith and dangerously too And I doubt I shall afterwards descend to particulars A. C. his importunity forcing me to it P. By A. C. his canfession then the Protestants are able to justifie their seperation abundantly As for your Lordship you are so charitably and peaceably affected that you are loth upon any termes though it concerne the salvation of mens soules in such a case to speake the truth home to make the rent wider till by your Adversaries importunity I would say A. C. you be forced to it You have too tender a heart to be a Surgion when for feare least the opening of the wound make it wider you suffer it to fester inwardly It were well if you were halfe so tender hearted to the
and needs the Churches mouth and if it be dead as being not living Certainly it can be no fit Iudge at all except ye will admit of a Judge that is both blind and dumb and dead As three Romans being sent in Ambassage one a Foole an other a Coward the third having the Gout Cato told the Senate they had sent an Ambassage that had neither Head Heart nor Feet And such a Judge would you make the Scripture But 't is visible you say So are your dumb dead and blind Images in your Churches they are visible and very conspicuous when the Scripture oftentimes can neither be seen nor heard Now to your Generall Councels L. p. 192. And surely what greater or surer Iudgement can we have where sense of Scripture is doubted then a Generall Councel I do not see And pag. 211. The making of Canons which must bind all particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded and established but there to wit in a Generall Councel P. 224. I said The Determination of a Generall Councel erring was to stand in force and to have externall obedience yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary made the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority did reverse it And pag. 226. Now suppose a Generall Councel actually erring in some point of Divine Truth I hope it will not follow that this Errour must be so grosse as that forthwith it must be known to private men And doubtlesse till they know it obedience must be yeelded Nay when they know if the Errour be not manifestly against fundamentall verity in which case a Generall Councel cannot easily erre I would have A. C. and all wise men consider whether externall obedience be not even then to be yeelded And p 227 Therfore it may seem very fit and necessary for the peace of Christendome that a Generall Councel thus erring should stand in force till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration make the errour to appeare as that another Councel of equall Authority reverse it And ibid. No way must lye open to private men to refuse obedience till the Councel he heard and weighed And p. 261. A Councel hath power to order settle and define Differences arisen concerning Faith This power the Councel hath not by an immediate Institution from Christ but it was prudently taken up in the Church from the Apostles example Act 15. And ibid. If the Councel be lawfully Called and proceed orderly and conclude according to the Rule the Scripture then the Dâ—finitions therof are binding but not from calling another Councel to reverse or abrogate the former Asts upon just cause P. 346. 'T is true that a Generall Councel de pace facto after 't is ended and admitted by the whole Church is then Infallible for it cannot erre in that which it hath already clearly and truely determined without Errour After 't is confirmed 't is admitted by the whole Church then being found true it is also Infallible that is it deceâ—ves no man And p. 347. For a man upon the pride of his own Iudgement to refuse externall obedience to the Councel was never lawfull nor can error stand with any Government P. 357.358 Christ did just intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either Contentious or Curious or presumptuous spirits And therfore in things not fundamentall nor necessary 't is no matter if Councels erre in one and another and a third the whole Church having power and meanes enough to see that no Councel erre in necessary things c. If it erre in things necessary we can be Infallibly assured by the Scripture the Creed the 4. first Councels and the whole Church where it erres in one and not in another And pag. 360 For one Faith necessary to Salvation a most infallible certainty we have already in the Scripture the Creeds and the 4. first Generall Councels to which for things necessary and fundamentall in the Faith we need no assistance from other Generall Councels P. 378. I submit my Iudgement with all humility to the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and upon new and necessary doubts to the judgement of a lawfull and free Generalâ— Councel And I absolutely make a lawfull and free Generall Councel Iudge of Controversies by and according to the Scripture And p. 386. I have expresly declared that the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and a lawfull and free Generall Councel determining according to these is judge of Controversies P. Thus in your Commending of Generall Councels you are very large that I may not say lavish too And surely in one respect especially you have great Reason for your Generall Councels must consist of Prelates onely so as in exalting Generall Councels you magnifie your Prelacie But I remember a saying of Basill that in his Observation he never knew any good to come of Generall Councels of Bishops who when they met in Councel were more zealous and eagre for their own particular Honours and Dignities then of the Church of God And as Bernard saith Totus fervet Ecclesiastiâ—us zelus sola pro Dignitate tuendâ— All the zeale of Church-men is infâ—amed altogether for the advancing and upholding of their Dignity But let us now take a briefe view of your words which we will collect and reduce to certain summary Heads First That Generall Councels are the supreme Iudge of the sense of Scripture when and where 't is doubted p. 192. Secondly that the Canons and Decrees of Generall Councels bind all Christians of necessity p. 211. Thirdly yea though Generall Councels determine Errors yet that requires at least externall obedience Fourthly That Generall Councels erring in some points of Divine Truth yet you hope it will not be so grosse as to come to the common view or if it doe yet obedience must be yeelded p. 226. onely except the Error be not manifestly against the fundamentall Verities Fifthly That a Generall Councel hath no power from Christ to be Iudge in Controversies but the Church prudently tooke it up from the Apostles example Act. 15. Sixtly That the Difinitions of Generall Councels bind being according to the Rule the Scripture yet that those may be reversed by an after-Councel Seventhy A Generall Councel in things clearely and truly determined cannot erre but in that is infallible Eightly That it is pride not to obey the Councels Difinitions yea unlawfull and not standing with any Government Ninthly That Christ intended to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church but not to satisfie contentions or curious or presumptuous spirits Tenthly That it is no matter if Generall Councels erre in one two three c. things not fundamentall nor necessary Eleventhly That for necessary Faith to Salvation we have an Infallible certainty in the Scriptures Creeds and 4. first Generall Councels to which for things necessary we need not the Assistance of any other Generall Councel Twelfthly That the Scripture interpreted by the
no salvation And that one Doctrine of Justification by works were there no more which all Papists professe and hold is alone sufficient to shut out all Papists living and dying therein from salvation This being so cleare should Protestants grant notwithstanding a possibility of salvation to any Papist living and dying in that Romish faith they should utter a manifest untruth and falshood and so should bewray themselves to be notoriously uncharitable How First to Protestant Professors 2. to Papists To Protestant Professors causing the weake at least to waver in their faith and make them the apter to be seduced by Romish Priests and Jesuites who prevaile not a little with vulgar Protestants and that by this very Argument which you hold That Protestants yea the Primate of Canterbury grant a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church Whereas we say the Jesuites deny salvation to be had in the Protestant Church Although I hope they will not extend this to the Church of England which you say is one and the same Church with that of which Rome is Againe secondly Protestants in not affirming this truth Then it is impossible for any Papist living and dying in the Roman faith to be saved should be very uncharitable to the Papists themselves For seeing them running on in a way which is full of false ground and deep pits covered over with green leaves and the end whereof is certaine and unavoydable destruction should they not cry out unto them to abandon that way and by all meanes and speed to get them out of it they were very uncharitable And the Scripture calls this hatred of our Brother As Levit. 19.17 Thou shalt not hate thy brothâ—r in thy heart thou shalt in any wise rebuke him and not suffer sin upon him And for ignorant Papists we are not to cast off all hope of them but erranti comiter monstrare viam shew those wanderers the right way instructing them with meeknesse proving if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil being taken captive of him at his will Ob. But for Protestants to have no better an opinion of Papists and of their Religion would as you tell us before make the rent wider which you are loth to doe The rent is too wide so to be sowed up with the rotten thread of your Charity Nay such your Charity keeps Papists the further off from the true Protestant Religion when they may be provided of salvation nearer home and that so easily too But however the truth must be spoken as you â—old us before As Augustine saith in the point of Predestination at the Preaching whereof some in his dayes as too many in ours taking offence he answereth Numideo tacenda est veritas c. Is the Truth therfore to be concealed because some unjustly are offended with it to their damnation and not rather to be spoken that he which is able to receive it may receive it to his salvation And here the Papists take offence at Protestants for speaking the truth it is not scandalum datum but acceptum not an offence given but taken And though some take offence yet others weighing by reason may thereby through Gods grace forsake their errour and imbrace the truth If they will not we have freed our own soules and Truth is Truth still We must keep our distance and not because they will not come to us goe the halfe way at least to draw them to us as before As the Lord saith to his Prophet concerning revolted Israel Let them return unto thee but return not thou unto them And if thou take forth the Precious from the vile thou shalt be as my mouth We must not mingle and confound the precious and pure gold with the base drosse not truth with errour not light with darknesse Yet for your part you say Thirdly Not to deny Papists salvation living and dying Papists to wit in the Roman Faith is not mistaken Charity and if it be mistaken Charity is better then none at all But first we have shewed that this is no Charity at all but an erronious opinion arising from a spirit destitute of the Truth and too much in love with the Romish whore And Secondly such mistaken Charity is worse then no Charity at all in this kind It were better if ye had no such Charity For your Charity towards your silly ignorant Papists in perswading them that they are safe enough in any society of men and there is salvation for them living and dying in the Roman Faith is a nuzzling of them in their ignorance and like the Apes Charity to her young one a strangling of them with too much hugging and bewrayes you to be of the spirit of those false Prophets that strengthen the hands of the wicked that he should not return from his wicked way by promising him life that dawbe with untempered morter that call evil good and good evil that put darknesse for light and light for darknesse and wo to such that say peace peace when there is no Peace Ob. But you will say shall we shut out silly ignorant Papists from Gods mercy Nay you your selfe shut them out from Gods mercy while you shut them up in their blindnesse and so from the meanes of Gods mercy For meanes of mercy they have none in their Popish Religion and blind faith and therein you lull them fast asleep while you tell them so long as they are ignorant of the Errours of Popery they are safe among any part of men Thus you shut them out from Gods mercy as much as in you is when we by shewing them the truth and their errour would lead them to Gods mercy Nor doe we deny but God may in the riches of his Grace and mercy prevent and overtake a silly Papist in causing him to imbrace Christ by Faith even when he lyes on his death bed and truly beleeving in Christ and so dying he is undoubtedly saved But dying thus a true Beleever he dyes not in the Roman faith but in the saving faith of Christ which the Roman faith is not So as thus dying within the Verge of the Roman Church yet he dyes no member of the Roman Church but of the true misticall body of Christ. And this Charity we have towards silly Papists praying that God would shew them mercy in delivering them from under Antichrists yoake to take Christs yoake upon them and bring them out of darknesse into his marvellous light To proceed L. p. 294 295. Io. Frith saith Of the presense of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament that neither side ought to make it an Article of Faith but leave it indifferent And B. Ridley we confesse all one thing to be in the Sacrament onely we differ in modo in thâ— manner of Beeing P And of this of Ridley you say ibid. 'T is well if some
what Of no lesse then Heresie and Schisme and other sinne too living and dying in the Roman faith Nay if there be but perill though great perill these pregnant Wits have wayes and wiles enough to avoyd all such perills and that by the cleane strength of their Art of equivocation wherein they are become the most expert Masters in the world Except they have forgotten it it is so long agoe since our Judges were wont to put them shrewdly to it as to confesse whether they were Priests or no which confession then was as good as to be hangd And you say elsewhere such can make a short cut to heaven when they lye a dying saying They renounce all their own merits whither their many bad or their few Good merits is not known and rely onely upon Christs merits for salvation As your good Brother Stephen Gardiner did at his death as before But when they dye in so good a mood though they may seem as Gardiner seemed to dye in the faith yet in charity they do not while they leave not the same gappe open for the people by which themselves get through concealing Iustification by Faith from the silly vulgar In which desperate case had not your Lordships charity put in to helpe at a dead lift to teach them a blind way to heaven which scarce any Jesuites before you ever knew What had become of them But alas As you delude those silly ignorants by telling them such a way leads to heaven which will carry them straight to hell so on the other side you doe but dally with A. C. and his fellows in telling them they are in perill onely when they are in the very precipice of perdition But if you intended to be their Ghostly Father indeed you should have told them plainly Their Religion is Idolatry Heresie Schisme Apostacie Antichristianisme Infidelity and all manner of Inâ—quity and Impiety so as to live and dye therein is inevitable damnation to all Papists whatsoever but double damnation to those that know it For as Christ saith That servant which knew his Lords will and prepared not himselfe neither did according to his will shal be beaten with many stripes But he that knew not and did commit things worthy of stripes shal be beaten with few stripes But what should a man speake to the deafe Adder that stoppes her eare and will not hearken to the voyce of Charmers charming never so wisely I will follow my Lords Councel Let them alone They be blind leaders of the blind and if the blind lead the blind they shall both fall into the pit And as he saith to the Pharisees Fill ye up the measure of your Fathers But how come you to say Ther 's danger of Schisme living and dying in the Roman faith What Can a man be a Schismaticke being a Romanist Then is not the Church of Rome her selfe a Schismatick And so the Church of England all one Church And so your Catholicke Church of which you and Rome are all Schismaticks Look to it But I may not leap over that which you have stumbled upon namely Romes Tyranny to boot And it were well if such Tyranny were confined to Rome saving that all Tyranny is such as it will not be confined to any place within any bounds You say that the Church of England and that of Rome are one and the same Church Certainly then this One Church what ever you pretend of the Catholick Church is of such a constitution as whose very foundation is Tyranny because Hierarchicall As Pope Hadoian 4. an English man lying extreme sick said That there was no life more wicked then the Popes whose Popedome was founded in blood and is maintained with blood wherein he is Romulus his successor who in laying the first foundation of Rome slew his brother Remus And wherein doth the Tyranny of your Popedome in the Church of England come short of the Popes saving that he hath a more powerfull Principality then you have Have not you in your hand like that Roman Iupiter the Pope your thunderbolâ— of Excommunication to blast and cast out of the Church whom you please or those who do not please you Do not the Censures of your High Commission like the Popes Court of Inquisitâ—â—n extend to the spoyling of good Ministers and Christians of all liberty and livelyhood You will say You use no fagots as Rome doth 'T is true 't is not yet come to that But wheâ—'s the default You onely want a Law But in the mean time you want not your devises armed both with your own power and borrowed of others to afflict men worse then with death as before is shewed in the forenamed examples And therfore from all such Tyranny both English and Romish the Lord deliver us L. p. 299. I do indeed for my part leaving other men free to their own judgement acknowledge a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church But so as that which I grant to Romanists is not as they are Romanists but as they are Christians that is as they beleeve the Creed and hold the Foundation Christ himselfe not as they associate themselves wittingly and knowingly to the grosse superstitions of the Romish Church P. Now you speake a little more plaine then before But how do you leave other men free to their own judgement when for not being of your judgement in this point you censâ—re them of stiffenesse and churlishnesse and want of Charity And yet you your selfe say that there is no possibility of Salvation for Romanists as they are Romanists So as your judgement is That Romanists as they are Romanists have no possibility of Salvation Ergo no Papist as a Papist living and dying in the faith and Religion of Popery can possibly be saved And just so say those Protestants whom you Censure for stiffe churlish and uncharitable Onely you qualifie it with this Condition If they wittingly and knowingly associate themselves to the grosse Superstition of the Romish Church so as still you save harmlesse your silly ignorant Papists that know nothing at all whether they doe and beleeve right or wrong And you distinguish That as Romanists they cannot be saved but as Christians beleeving the Creed and holding the foundation Christ. But we told you before that your silly ignorant Papists do not so much as understand or know the very letter of the Creed how much lesse beleeve it If they can mumble over their Creed as many a blind Priest doth his Mâ—sse 't is in a strange tongue and they say it for one of their blind and superstitious Prayers as they doe their Ave Marie So that way what hope or possibility can they have of salvâ—tion And for holding the foundation Christ to that we have before sufficiently proved the Contrary But say you they are Christians So you say they are Romanists too As one telling the Emperour Sigismund of Iulianus the Cardinal speaking somthing in his Commendation he
of England doth Againe you make it no great matter of difference in this case between your Protestant and the Romanist whither this or that goe to each others Church so his Conscience put not a barre As you tell us a little after That the Church of Rome and the Protestants do not set up a different Religion Of which in its place And here also you put no difference but that the Romanist doth as well serve and worship God after his Roman manner in his Idolatrous Masse as your Protestant doth after your English manner And perhaps the difference will not be found so great between you but that you will well enough agree when you have cast up your reckoning But now what if one of your simple Protestants be not resolved in Conscience of the profession of the truth in the Church of England more then of that in the Church of Rome Is it not then lawfull for him to goe to the Romish Masse With â—ou it seems so so his Conscience hinder him not And what Conscience hath your ignorant Protestant to hinder him in this case Nay I will say more What knowing Protestant have you at this day in the present Church of England since the publishing of your Declaration before the 39 Articles which makes some of the principall of them to beare a double and contrary sense that is or can be resolved in his Conscience that either the true faith or so much as the Profession of the true faith is in the Church of England For those Articles which containe the Doctrine of your Church you confesse to be ambiguous and doubtfull and doe not resolve either way but leave your Church in suspense how then can any Protestant of the Church of England be resolved in Conscience that the Profession of the true faith is in the Church of England when neither your selfe seems to be resolved or at least you doe not resolve your Church concerning your Articles what to beleeve Which being so may you not fairely hence conclude that it is lawfull for any Protestant of the Church of Engdaud to goe to the Romish Church there and in that manner to serve and worship God untill he shal be resolved in his Conscience that the profession of the true faith is in the Church of England which resolution is not like to be till your Lordship hath resolved them which is the true and orthodox sense of your Articles and that by a publicke edâ—ct athenticke and every way equall to the former as in the case of Generall Councels when the errours of one must be obeyed till another equall to that shall reverse it As before But in the meane time unlesse you make the more hast with your Edict for Resolution your whole Church of England is now at liberty to goe to Masse and so to turne Romanist as having nothing to restrain them were there but Masses enough to intertaine them as no doubt there be Priests enough for the purpose had they but Churches so long as their Conscience is not resolved of the profession of the true faith in the Church of England And so the Broad Gates are set upon for the Consummation of your so much wished and plotted Reconcliation with the Church of Rome And you adde L. p 376. Nor do the Church of Rome and the Protestants set uâ— a different Religion fâ—r thâ— Christian Religion is the same to both but they differ in the same Religion and the difference is in certaine grâ—ssâ— corruptions to the very indangering of salvation which each side sâ—yâ—s the other is guilty of P. By Protestants here 't is plain enough you mean those of the Church of England not those of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas I am sure of it For they utterly renounce the Romish Religion and Faith as Antichristian which you avow for Christian the same with yours But they differ say you in the same Religion How They do not set up a different Religion and yet they differ in the same Religion I understand not this Babylonish language But wherein then doe they differ in the same and undiffering Religion In some certaine grosse corruptions say you But in some not in all grosse corruptions which are indifferent and common to you both And what grosse corruptions are common to both those shall not be put in the reckoning of corruptions at all each covering other with the mantle of Charity Yea such as you both agree in are the very substance of your Religion And the whole substance of the Romish yea of all Christian Religion saith Bellarmine is the Masse This then must be That same undiffering Christian Religion which you both set up And herein how much doe you dister Have you not both your Altars the main substance on the service whereof all the rest attend as your Priests Sacrifice Images Crucifixes Adorations Organs curious musicke and many other devises for your pompous service your Liturgie differing more in the language then in the matter and forme But you will say you differ in Transustantiation Yet you are willing to have a reall Presence confessed and professed with you as is noted before But you say the difference is in certaine grosse corruptions indangering salvation On which side Each side say you charges other I have heard two butter women scold and each layd to other grievous things and the one said Thou playdst the whore and the other sayd Thou playdst the whore Which of these trow you was the honester Woman She haply that had lesse playd the whore then the other which perhaps was not for want of will but opportunity You and Rome charge each other with grosse corruptions which yet are one and the same in both Doth not thus the shame of both the more appeare Your grosse corruptions on both sides can agree well enough if you can be quiet Yea and that to the indangering of Salvation too For have you not to be silent in the rest both your Altars which are alone sufficient to sacrifice upon all your faith and salvation and so to leave you neither faith nor salvation in Christ as whom also you sacrifice thereon together with your faith and salvation For we shewed before that your Altars doe overthrow and deny Iesus Christ the onely Altar of true beleevers If then you both doe agree in the grossest corruptions as those whereby your salvation is not onely indangered but destroyed which is the maine of your Religion wherin you differ not what need there be any oddes between you for the rest Both sides complain of each other both have their corruptions and grosse ones too such as overthrow salvation Then let your conscious ingenuity confesse to each other and your conscientious Charity pardon each other And so let the world be troubled no more with your Differences but be good friends and agree as sisters L. p. ibid. It may appeare by all the former Discourses to any Indifferent Reader that Religion as it is
before him in the view of all the Councel And the maine point of their Contentions was about Precedency which Bishoprick should be before another Oh devout and humble Prelates O holy successors of the Apostles Are these men like to remedy Schisme in the Church that are the Authors of them themselvs How came the great Schisme of Arius but by the Prelates when but one chiefly stood up against him How got Antichrist to be Caput Vniversale Universall Head or Bishop but by the dessent of the Bishops which causing their Appeales to Rome brought the Roman Bishop to that height so as the Prelates being worse divided among themselves then the Presbyters had been before them for remedy of whose Schisme they were by mans prescription erected gave occasion to the two Bishops of the two Imperiall Cities Rome and Constantinople to stickle for one Headship over all to reconcile all And so the Popedome it selfe the Throne of the Beast was erected in Schismatis remedium for the onely Remedy of all Schisme And it is to be noted how these two Prelates strove for this supremacy and both under the veile of humility Iohn of Constantinople becomes a great Faster whereupon he was styled Iohannes Iejunator Iohn the Faster Gregory then of Rome though he thundred against Iohns Ambition calling him that had or affected that Title the forerunner of Antichrist yet seeing Iohn like to prevaile with pretence of holinesse and humility Gregory stiles himselfe servus servorum Dei He thought he would not come behind for humility but indeed therein bewraying his pride when his humility was but in emulation And we see in Gregories Registrum in sundry of his Epistles how low he descends in most base flattery to that Parricide Phocas and his Empres to visit the thresholds of Peter and Paul c. But what will not Episcopall zeale doe for the Hierarchy But thus he kept Iohn off and so made way for his own Prophecy which was Filius superbiae prope est The son of pride that is Antichrist is neere at hand And neerer surely then he was aware For Gregory deceasing and Sabianus succeeding and siting but one yeare Boniface 3. the next successor obtaind this Title of Phocas and so each confirmed other the Emperour the Pope in the Throne of Antichrist which is a Tyranny over mens Soules and the Pope the Emperours Cruelty in a Tyranny over mens Bodyes And thus came that Prophecy of the Angel Revel 17.18 to be fulfilled The Woman which thou sawest is that great City which reigned over the Kings of the Earth As Rome then did in S. Iohns time So as according to Gods word not Constantinople which was not the Imperiall Câ—ty till Constantine so made it but Rome must be the feat of the Beast and of the Whore thus described Thus from Bishops emulation ambition contention one against another for honour precedency and greatnesse in the world came Antichrist to mount upon that Beast which had 7 heads and ten hornes And your selfe confesseth The difficulty was to accommodate the Places and Precedencies of Bishops among themselves And for this you say The most equall and impartiall way was that the Honours of the Church should follow the Honours of the State So that the greater City the greater Bishop And thus Romes Primacy in Order brought him to his supremacy in Authority Againe you say The Calling of Bishops Whence this Calling Not from God And of Aarons Priesthood it was said No man takes this honour upon him but he that is called of God as was Aaron Heb. 5.4 So all the Apostles had a speciall Calling and Commission from Christ to preach c. Paul Called to be an Aposâ—le of Iesus Christ. He stood upon his Calling he had a lawfull Calling wheron his Apostolicke Authority was founded Now you would be accounted Apostolick and the Apostles successors but where 's your Calling We find no such Calling as of Lord-bishops in the Scripture Therfore you have no Authority over the inferiour Clergy not over Gods Ministers I meane Either therfore prove your Calling from God or give us leave to deny your Authority as being an usurped Tyranny If you aledge those Bishops so called Act. 20.28 Phil. 1.1 1 Tim. 3.1 Tit. 1.7 c. Prove they were Diocesan Bishops We prove them by the plain Text to be but Presbyters over the severall Congregations over which the Holy Ghost made them Episkópous Bishops or Overseers as more fully at after If you aledge Timothy and Titus for Bishops that 's soon answered they were onely Euangelists no Bishops Those Epigraphees in the end of that to 2 Tim. and Tit. they are no part of the Text but were added long after at the leasâ— 400. years It behoves you therfore to prove your Calling better before you so presse and oppresse us with your Authority But you adde L. p. 177. Among these to wit Patriarchs Metropolitans Bishops there was effectuall subjection respectively grounded upon Canon and positive Law in their severall quarters P. Here you confesse that all subjection of Metropolitans to the Patriarchs and of Bishops to the Metropolitans was but grounded upon Canon and Positive Law Ergo not upon the Canon of Scripture nor the Law of God As you confessed openly in High Commission that no one Apostle had Authority or Iurisdiction over the Rest or any of their fellows so as though you call your calling Apostolicke yet your Arch-Bishoprick is not Apostolicke in exercising Authority and Iurisdiction over all the Bishops in your Province This you have not from the Scripture I know not from what Papall Canon For as for Positive if you meane the Politick Laws of Princes you will not take your Authority from them And the Judges have declared their judgement in the Kings Edict that your exercising your Authority and keeping Courts in your own Names is now no more a trenching upon the Kings Prerogative then formerly it hath been Where the Judges are to be commended for their Discretion But it is very well Thus you are loose off from the Positive Law of the Prince and we deny you any title either of Authority or Calling over the Ministry and so you may prove to sit between two stooles or as he that hath not one string to his bow But whereas you confesse before that Bishops have no Jurisdiction one over another because the Apostles had not hence it is evident that those who are true Bishops to wit Presbyters have no jurisdiction over one another and so there is no such Order or Calling of Lord Bishops whereby they have Authority over the true Bishops and Pastors of the flocks of Christ. These things are noted sufficiently before but as Augustine writing against the Pelagians saith By these things so often repeated though the importunity of the Adversary will not be repressed yet the Truth shal be the more confirmed and the Faith of Beleevers the more firmly established L. p. 183. The
Patriarch of Rome had potentiorem Principalitatem a more powerfull Principality then other Churches had And that the Protestants grant too and that not onely because the Roman Prelate was Ordine primus First in Order and Degree which some one must be to avoyd confusion but c. P. What the Protestants grant to have been de facto is one thing that such a thing is or was so and so but what they grant to have been de Iure but what Right is another And this the Reformed Protestants never granted to the Pope or any Prelate But there must be some one say you to avoyd Confusion and this according to the honour of the state and Place And that must needs be the Pope of Rome But for the purpose or end you are farre wide For instead of avoyding Confusion this strowed the way to build up Babylon Confusion it selfe And your selfe saith as much This was the very fountaine of Papall Greatnesse the Pope having his Residence in the Great Imperiall City So as Primacy joynd with Power and Authority too as that of the Pope in Rome and yours in England the Pope residing in the Imperiall City and you in the Royall Court What confusion the one hath brought to the Empire it selfe the world knows and what the other may bring to the State Royall the Lord knows and he in mercy prevent and if such confusion to States then what to the true Religion and the Churches of Christ. But hath the Pope then that pretended successor of the poore Fisherman such a Principality This is more then Primacy Unlesse Primacy be by your interpretation Principality Nay it must needs be so because if the Popes Principality be more potent then other Churches then surely your Primacy is at least a Principality too though lesse potent And who doubts of that For at your High Commission Board at Dr BASTVVICKS Censure you did prove most bravely from Scripture it selfe that you were Princes What Scripture You aledged Psal. 45.16 Instead of thy Fathers shal be thy Children whom thou mayst make Princes in all the Earth What conclude you hence Ergo Prelates are Princes We deny your inference and consequence How prove you it I know you will straight appeale to a Generall Councel if we doubt of it Stay awhile A Generall Councel is an Assembly of Prelates And then They shal be their own Iudges That 's not faire play And Bellarmine would have a great stroke there for he also aledges this place for you and himselfe too to prove that the Pope is a Prince and so all Prelates under him But by your leave we appeale to the Scriptures themselves for Interpretation as best knowing their own meaning and ablest to expresse themselves Now comparing this with other Scriptures we find that those Princes there spoken of in all Lands are understood of all Gods Children true Beleevers throughout the whole earth now under the Gospell For of these the Spirit saith He Christ hath made us Kings and Priests to God his Father Now if all true Beleevers be Kings then also Princes And in Peter we are called a royall Priesthood So Rev. 5.9 10. Thou hast redeemed us to God by thy blood and hast made us unto our God Kings and Priests c. And Jam. 2.5 Hearken my beloved brethren hath not God chosen the poore of this world to be rich in Faith and heires of the Kingdome which God hath promised to them that love him How if heires of the Kingdome then Princes And Rom. 8.16 17. The Spirit it selfe beareth witnesse with our spirit that we are the Children of God And if Children then heires heires of God and joynt heires with Christ if s◠be we suffer with him that we may be also glorified together And many other places to this purpose We are the brethren of Christ the congregation of the first borne Therfore Princes And yet poore in this world But if Prelates be Princes they are such as Salomon describes by another Title being compared to the true Princes Gods Children There is saith he an evil which I have seen under the Sun and he saw it by the eye of Prophecy as an error which proceedeth from the Ruler What is the evil What that error of Rulers Namely Folly is set in great Dignity and the Rich set in low place I have seen Servants on Horses and Princes walking as Servants upon the earth Now who are these rich that sit in a low place The rich in Faith saith Iames. And who are these Princes that walke as Servants upon the earth Namely Gods Children who are true Princes heires of the Kingdome that are afflicted and oppressed in the world And what folly is that which is set in great dignity Who more properly then Prelates which are as those of whom Iames speakes in rich and gorgeous apparell who are set in a goodly place while Gods poore Children sit below on the footstoole And who those Servants on Horses Prelates on their footcloth riding in pompe while Gods people trudge a foot on the earth If you say you are not here meant because you are no fooles nor servants Indeed you are no small fooles For there are no greater fooles in the world then such as seem wisest in their own conceit as Prelates doe As Salomon saith Seest thou a man wise in his owne conceit there is more hope of a foole then of him Now doe not you make your selves the wisest men in the world as the onely Guides and Oracles of the Church and that even as you are Prelates And againe are there any such fooles as those who preferre the riches and honours in the world before heaven Or that warre and fight against Christ and his Kingdome And doe not you Prelates so Your own vain profession and practises proclaime you to be folly it selfe set in great dignity And are you not servants servants of sinne servants of your own lusts and other mens having them in admiration for advantage And under colour of humility as if you were servi servorum servant of servantes as the proud Pope styles himself which was Chams curse doe you not exalt your selves as Domini dominantium mounted on your rich and prancing Palphrys while you ride over the heads of the true heaven bred Princes that goe afoot on the ground And how came you to be so mounted but through the 〈◊〉 of Rulers of the earth How mounted the Pope but by the Emperours holding of his stirrup And when the Pope was terrible angry with the Emperour for holding the wrong stirrup did not the Emperour trow you then begin to see his error But it was now too late Having given their Kingdome to the Beast 't is just with God they should become his Vasalls till the time appointed But to conclude this your Ordine primus which you apply to 〈◊〉 Pope I cannot more properly and truly parallell or compare it
They are taught this one Maine Principle That they must be saved not by Faith onely but by their good Works whereby they must merit their Salvation Now this all Papists learned and unlerned professe This unlesse they cease to be Papist they live and dye in and so they are necessarily and certainly damned For to adde any thing to Faith in Iustification is damnation as before it shewed And saith the Prophet They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy But Thirdly you say They may be saved so they conforme to a Religious life Now what is the Religious life of a Papist and especially of a silly ignorant Papist Namely to goe to Shrief or Confession to the Priest his Ghostly Father as often as may be as the Fernall Glory published by your Chapleins licence teacheth or at the least once a yeare against Easter to keep his Lent-fast strictly so as upon paine of damnation or greivous penance not to eat an egge all that time and so observe all othor Fasting-dayes in the yeare together with all Holydayes to say over their Beads every day in repeating their Pater Noster Ave Mary Creed and ten Commandements â—f either they be so learned or devout to goe to their dayly Masse and Mattens where it is their safety to understand never a word nor to say Amen to the Priest but by the sound of his voyce which they understand no more then the chattering of a Magpy to call upon such a Saint his speciall Mediator and say a Pater Noster and Ave Mary before such an Image and especially of their Lady and a thousand such like observations wherein a Popish Religious life consisteth And so this is the Religious life of your ignorant silly Papist wherin living and dying he may be saved if he may beleeve your Doctrine But to this you adde An humble and peaceable obedience To What Or to whom As to the Priests Ghostly Discipline when he injoynes sore penance as whipping-cheare in Lent or the like Or if you meane peaceable obedience to the Civil Magistrate as in England that must be according to their Ghostly Fathers direction and limitation they must not take the Oath of Supremacy nor in some cases the Oath of Allegiance when it makes for the Catholick Cause And though to satisfie the Law and save his purse he come once a moneth to Church and heare your service yet Sermon he must not heare especially if the Preacher be Puritannicall for that might turn him quite from his Popery And thus such partly by their peaceable civill life and partly by their humble Popish Religious life so living and dying may be saved And therfore to such silly Ignorants we must not deny salvation Why so For first We have not so learned Christ say you Wee What wee Wee to wit you and your present Church of England And surely you had not need to deny salvation to that Church with which you and your Church is one and the same Church least otherwise you might leave your selves as little hope of salvation as others doe them But this is a piece of your learning of Christ it seems to beleeve that a silly ignorant Papist that knows not the right hand from the left that is drowned in Ignorance blindnesse superstition Idolatry Infidelity and as a drowned man knows it not may securely wrappe himselfe in the shrowd or mantle of his silly ignorance and so goe to heaven Thus have you learned Christ. But Wee Wee I say that renounce all communion with the Whore of Babylon and with all her Abominations have not so learned Christ as having heard him and been taught by him as the truth is in Iesus as to beleeve there is salvation to be hoped for of any but such as walke according to Christs rule and live and dye in his Faith And what 's Christs rule Even that which follows in the same place vers 22 To put off and renounce the former conversation of the Old Man which is corrupt according to the deceitfull lusts waâ—king v. 18. in the vanity of our minds having the understanding darkened being alienated from the life of God through ignorance as the Gentiles because of the blindnesse of their heart who being past feeling have given themselves to all â—â—sâ—viousnesse to worke all uncleannes with greedinesse Wherupon the Apostle addes But have not so learned Christ so as to thinke to be saved in a Heathenish life drowned in ignorance from which you cannot distinguish the life of an ignorant Papist except that it is infinitely more stupid and fuller of grosse ignorance and all abominations then the Heathen were and saving that Papists professe the name of Christians We have not I say so learned Christ. What is then the learning of Christ To put off the Old Man and that ye be saith the Apostle renewed in the spirit of your mind putting on the New man which after God is created in Righteousnesse and true Holinesse This is the learning of Christ. So as without this learning neither any silly ignorant Papist nor the most pregnant acute learned Arch-Prelate can be saved We must have both the Righteousnesse of justification by Faith imputed and of Sanctification of the spirit of Christ inherent and shining forth in a holy life and conversation It is not a Pope-holynesse in keeping of a Lent fast or worshiping of an Altar and such like counterfeit holines of mans devising This you learne not of Christ. For Christ saith In vaine they worship me teaching for Doctrines the Commadements of men or humane Traditions This holinesse saves not but shuts men out of the Kingdome of Heaven But secondly You call it stifnesse and churlishnesse in Protestants to deny all Papists salvation We shall by and by see your Charity to Papists which is so extreame great as we need not wonder at your malice against those some Protestants you speake it Is it stifnesse to avouch the truth And if they do bebaiousthai as the Apostle exhorteth Titus constantly affirme what not onely is truth but also necessary to be spoken as being a matter of such moment and consequence as concernes the savation of soules by denying salvation to whom it belongeth not and when men are seduced in a false perswasion therof call you this churlishnesse Certainly this churlishnesse in so denying is better then your charity in affirming a falshood Nay what will you say if this which you call churlishnesse be found to be true Charity when your Charity will be found to be deadly hatred against the soule of that silly ignorant Papist For true Charity ever consists with verity els it is no Charity but vanity Now those Protestants which deny salvation to all Papists living and dying in the Roman faith doe it upon sound and solid grounds even upon cleare evidence of Scripture For the Roman Faith is not the true Christian Faith as we have proved And without the true Christian Faith
Protestants except not against it For this difference de Modo of the manner of the Presence of Christs naturall Body in the Sacrament we have spoken before at large And was this Difference trow you so small that cost both Ridley and Cranmer and Frith their lives For you cite them all 3 in one Page calling them the learned of those zealous in Queen Maries dayes Martyrs you do not call them beware of that So as times kà rin for honour sake you mention them not So you cite Calvin a little before whom in the High Commission you honoured with the Title of Rascall And these Martyrs are they whom one of your Divines of note and worth Dr. Heylin in a Booke licensed by your Chaplein stiles with the Honourable Title of Schismaticall Hereticks But to let this passe for currant with you The summe of your whole passage touching this point from pag. 292. to 296. is to perswade us to acknowledge a reall presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament onely differing from the Papists quoad moaum as touching the manner of presence Now I confesse this is a very pretty and ready way to lead to your Reconciliation But let me tell you even words and names and verball expressions are of no small force many times to lead men into great errours although at first they meant no harme that used them For instance The Primitive Fathers when they began to call the Lords Table an Altar they little dreamed what an Altar it would prove afterwards as wheron to offer up in sacrifice Christs naturall body So when they called Ministers Priests they imagined not that those Priests would prove afterwards such sacrificing Priests as now are in the Church of Rome And when they called the Lords supper a sacrifice which they meant to be Eucharisticall of thanksgiving they never suspected that this would become afterwards a corporall sacrifice of Christs very body and bâ—ood And yet these very Names so taken up gave occasion afterwards of setting up the greatest Idol that ever was in the world as we see at this day So dangerous is it to expresse Divine matters by any other Name then what the Scripture hath given them Seeing then that in Scripture we find no such words as Reall Presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament it is not safe for Christians to take them up And so much the more because we see by experience the mischiefes that this reall presence so called and so understood as the Papists doe hath done in the Church of God How many Martyrs hath it made How much innocent blood hath it spilt So as it hath gotten and that deservedly a very bad Name And it is the Name or Word wherby the Romanists expresse their Great Idol in the Masse And David saith Their Drinke offerings of Blood will I not offer nor take up their Names into my lips So as Christians ought not to use the Names of Idols invented by man to expresse Divine things of Scripture by Yea K. Hezechiah when the Brazen Serpent which God himselfe had commanded to be made for the present occasion in the Wildernesse though he commanded it not to be kept for a Monument began to be abused unto Idolatry he brake it to pieces And so in this case though these words The Reall Presence may beare a good sense yet being and that of long time abused to the setting up and upholding of most grosse Idolatry we are to stamp it to powder and never use it more And we have as little reason to be perswaded hereto by your Lordship as by any For as this word Reall presence is very suspicious in it selfe and much more in regard of the Papists abusing of it so it wants not suspicion that you so commend it unto us First in regard of the whole matter of your Book which generally complyes with Popery Secondly in regard of the main scope of your Booke which is to bring on a Reconciliation with Rome And Thirdly and more especially in regard of some speeches which have now and then dropped from you in publick Court where speaking of Altars-placing you said you would have none to sit above God-Allmighty which must needs imply as before is noted that either your Altar is your God Allmighty or els God Allmighty hath a locall presence and residence there upon your Altar And so Fourthly your eager zeale in promoting of Altars makes us much to suspect your Reall Presence as fearing all will not be well when once we have taken up and let down this Reall presence of God Allmighty into our bellies And so also Fiftly your Priests by that Name doe increase the suspition And Sixtly because you tell us before of a Transubstantiation taken properly and improperly And Seventhly Because you tell us by and by that Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup are but Disputed and Improbable Opinions Lastly it is used to Idolatry and so to be broken in pieces as the Brazen Serpent was And therfore for all these Reasons we desire not to be troubled with your Reall presence but leave it to the Papists or to you to restore it where you had it or if you like it so well to use it let it be to your selfe or Chappell at Lambeth trouble not the Church of England with it any more which desireth not more matter for a new Booke of Martyrs Now to come to the Martyrs First for Ioh. Friths words Not to make it an Article of Faith but leave it Indifferent First However the words sound we must weigh them by the sense And the best Commentary of his words is his death which he suffered even therfore because he made it an Article of his faith to beleeve that Christ was not Really Present in the Sacrament as the Papists do hold and therfore on the contrary he held it as an Article of his faith That Christ was onely vertually and spiritually present to the Faith of the Receiver according to the true meaning of those Sacramentall words This is my body as a little before we shewed Secondly to take Friths words in your sense doth overthrow a Christians faith as touching the Sacrament wherein the beleever receives and applyes by faith the merits of Christs death to the comforting nourishing and strengthning of his soule And a man is bound to beleeve aright concerning the Sacrament and to put a maine difference between truth and erroâ—â— therein And is it not an Article of Faith to beleeve Christs body not to be corporally present in the Sacrament seeing he saith Me have you not alwayes It is expedient for you that I goe away who sits at Gods right hand whom the heavens must receive till his coming againe And lastly admit his words may be stretched to the full bredth of your sense which is erronious wee must measure all mens words by the Rule of Scripture in divin matters If they dissent or come short or goe