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A50249 A disputation concerning church-members and their children in answer to XXI questions wherein the state of such children when adult, together with their duty towards the church, and the churches duty towards them is discussed by an assembly of divines meeting at Boston in New England, June 4th, 1657 / now published by a lover of truth. Mather, Richard, 1596-1669. 1659 (1659) Wing M1271A; ESTC R3585 21,931 42

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all Ordinances and full communion Deut. 29. 12 14. 2 Chron. 15. 12. 2 Chron. 34. 31 32. Where it is mentioned as the performance of a duty whereto they stand obliged by the Covenant made in their Infancy Propos. 3. Being accordingly called thereunto if after Church-admonition and other due means with patience used they shall refuse the performance of this great duty or in case they shall notwithstanding like means applied any otherwise continue scandalous it is the part of the Church to proceed with them to the censure of excommunication because the Facts mentioned deserve excommunication 2 Chron. 15. 13. Mat. 18. 17. 2 Cor. 5. 11. 2 Thes. 3. 6 14. And the persons are Church-members being confederate with their Parents and the Church as the matter requireth administreth Discipline to the Members thereof without respect of persons according to their capacity 1 Cor. 5. 12. 1 Tim. 5. 21. Add hereunto the instance of those who are separated from the Congregation for their non-observance of that Covenant Ezr. 10. 3 7 8. Together with the examples of Cain Ishmael and Esau not a little contributing to the truth of this assertion by way of proportion Propos. 4. In case they understand the grounds of Religion are not scandalous and solemnly own the Covenant in their own persons wherein they give up both themselves and their children unto the Lord and desire Baptism for them we with due reverence to any Godly Learned that may dissent see not sufficient cause to deny Baptism unto their children these reasons for the affirmative being proposed to consideration 1. Church-Members without offence and not baptized are to be baptized The children in Question are Church-Members without offence and not baptized Therefore the children in Question are to be baptized 2. Children in the covenant of Abraham as to the substance thereof i. e. To whom the promise made to Abraham as to the substance thereof doth belong are to be baptized The children in Question are children in the covenant of Abraham as to the substance thereof Therefore the children in Question are to be baptized 3. Children in the same estate with those children under the Law unto whom the seal of the righteousnesse of Faith because in that estate was by Institution Divine to be applied the Precept for so doing not repealed and the reason for so doing still remaining are to be baptized But the children in Question are children in the same estate viz. regularly in church-Church-covenant with those children under the Law unto whom the seal of the righteousnesse of Faith because in that estate was by Institution Divine to be applied the Precept for so doing not repealed and the reason for so doing still remaining Therefore the children in Question are to be baptized 4. Either the children in question are to be baptized or the Gospel dispensation forbids the application of the seal unto children regularly in Church-covenant unto whom the Mosaical dispensation commanded it to be applied But the Gospel despensation forbids not the application of the seal unto children regularly in Church-covenant unto whom the Mosaical dispensation commanded it to be applied Therefore the children in question are to be baptized The contrary opinion infers that the Gospel bereaveth the children mentioned at least in a considerable degree of their glory advantage mercy blessing and that in this respect it casts reproach yea brings disadvantage a judgment a curse upon them Iosh. 5. 9. Rom. 3. 1 2. 9. 4 5. This seems to be a lesse Evangelicall Tenent the nature of the Gospel being to enlarge and better not to contract and diminish the external dispensation of Grace 5. Children unto whom the Gospel testifieth both the promise and baptisme by vertue of that promise to belong ought to be baptized The children in question are children unto whom the Gospel testifieth both the promise and baptism by vertue of that to promise to belong Acts 2. 39. Therefore the children in Question ought to be baptized Obj. The Parent though a Church-member owning the Covenant in his own person and qualified according to the premises is not admitted to full communion therefore the child ought not to be baptized Ans. The Church-act onely and not any other act much lesse defect of the Parent is by Divine Institution accounted to the child The membership of the child is a distinct membership from the membership of the Parent In case the Parents membership ceaseth by death or censure the membership of the child remaineth still The membership of the child is the same in kind with and not inferiour to the membership of the Parent Membership is a Relation and therefore admits not of magìs and minùs more or lesse Members are better or worse and communion is more or lesse but membership admits not of degrees Benjamin an Infant but of an hour old is as truly a son as Reuben a man of twenty two years of age The child is baptized by vertue of his own membership and not by vertue of his Parents membership The Parents death is not with us an obstacle of the Childs Baptism Propos. 5. The same may be said concerning the children of such persons in question who being dead or necessarily absent either did or do give the Churches cause in judgment of charity to look at them as thus qualified and such as had they been called thereunto would so acted For in Charity that is here done interpretatively which is mentioned in the fourth Proposition expresly Propos. 6. Though the persons forementioned own the Covenant according to the premises yet before they are admitted to full communion i. e. To the Lords Supper and voting they must so hold forth their Faith and Repentance unto the judgment of Charity by way of confession in the congregation as it may appear unto the Church that they are able to examine themselves and to discern the Lords body See the proof hereof in Ans. to Quest 7th Quest 11. Whether children begotten by an excommunicate person are to be baptized he so remaining Ans. We cannot for the present answer the following Arguments for the Negative 1. Persons excommunicate are not members and the promise made to the seed belongs under the Gospel onely to the seed of immediate Parents in Covenant 2. Excommunicate Parents are to be looked at in Church account as Heathens and Publicans now the Church ought not to baptize the children of those which she is to account as Heathens Publicans because their children are unclean 1 Cor. 7. 14. 3. To baptize the children of the excommunicate is to have Church-communion with the excommunicate But those that we are forbidden to have civil communion with 1 Cor. 5. 11. We are much more forbidden to have Church Communion with Quest 12. Whether a Child born of a justly censurable person yet not actually excommunicate be to be baptized Ans. We answer affirmatively 1. Because the child is a Church-member by vertue of his covenanting with his Parents 2.
a manner as to be by coming in to the Iews and joyning with them as Iaphet must dwell in the Tents of Shem Gen. 9. 27. And not that Shems Tents must be destroyed and other kind of Tents built for Iaphet to inhabit All which do shew that the Church then and now is not essentially though sundry waies accidentally differing but the same 2. Again If the consequence be not good then it will follow that such Iews as were brought in by the Gospel into Church-estate were great losers by embracing the Gospel and the children losers by their Parents Faith inasmuch as though in the former state the children were Members with the Parents yet now in the Gospel-estate the children by this assertion are all left out Yea then the children of those Iews Acts 2. Which before the Sermon when their Parents wanted Faith were in the covenant and Church-state with their Parents are now after the Sermon when their Parents are become believers cast out or fallen out of the Church A strange and harsh Doctrine that the Faith of the Parents should set the children further off from God and from his Church and covenant than they were before 3. Then also when the Iews shall be converted in the latter daies of the new Testament the Parents must be Members of the Church but not the children and so they shall be in a worse condition than formerly as not having their children in the Church with them as formerly it was But besides the harshnesse of such a conclusion see the contrary in Ier. 30. 20. Isa. 61. 9. 59. 21. 65. 23. Ezek. 37. 25 26. 4. Although it be true that the Lord hath made difference between the Administration of his covenant and Grace to his people in these daies from that which was in former times yet as these differences are not in the essence of the Church-estate but in accidentals and in degree so where any alteration is made it is still for our advantage and greater benefit and therefore our covenant is called a better covenant and established upon better promises Heb. 7. 22. 8. 6. And from this it is that the burden of ceremonies which lay on them is now taken off the darknesse of Types and Shadows is now removed and liberty is now given to worship the Father every where whereas they were for many things tied only to Ierusalem and every congregation of Saints is now a Church entire within it self whereas then no single congregation had such Church-power and entirenesse of Jurisdiction but all their congregations had dependance on Ierusalem and all made up but one National Church In these things and some others that might be named there is alteration made but still it is an alteration for the better and for our advantage But now for the Particular in Question If children were then Members of the Church and now be not here is an alteration made for the worser and not for the better not for our advantage but for our losse for so it is to have all our children put out of covenant and Church and from all the priviledges thereof Iosh. 22. 24 25. Eph. 2. 12. Psal. 87. 3. Mat. 15. 26. And therefore such a change may not be admitted For Christ by his coming did not worsen the condition not of the whole Church but not of any one person upon Earth nor yet of any age or condition or sort of persons Luke 2. 10. And surely the child in minority as the Church of old was Gal. 4. 1 2. hath not a greater or larger place in the house nor is in better condition in respect of priviledges than the heir that is full of age And who can think that a place in Gods House which is promised as so great a Benefit in Isa. 56. 5 7. And accounted such a Glory Advantage c. Rom. 3. 1 2. 9. 4. Should be no more but a part of that bondage and tutorage which belongs to children under age Hence also add a fifth Argument to prove the consequence above mentioned 5. If children were once Church-members and do not continue to be Church-members still then their Membership must have been repealed by the Lord who alone could make such an alteration And if any should affirm that the Lord hath done it it lieth upon them to prove it and to shew when or where such an alteration was made or such a repeal may be found But in the mean time though it be lesse needful to prove the negative when-as the affirmative in such a case as this cannot be shewed yet let these considerations amongst others that might be named for that purpose be duly weighed 1. If the Lord had made such an alteration that now under the new Testament no children should be Members of the Church then in all likelihood Christ or his Apostles would have made mention of it Witnesse their Faithfulnesse And how else should we know that the Lord had appointed any such alteration but now Christ and his Apostles in stead of mentioning any such thing do confirm the contrary Mark 10. 13 14 16. Acts 2. 39. 1 Cor. 7. 14. And hence the Apostles writing Epistles to Churches do sometimes expresly and directly apply their speeches unto children Eph. 6. 1. Col. 3. 20. Which seems to imply that they accounted children to be parts and members of the Churches unto whom they sent those Epistles 2. If the Apostles had taught any such alteration surely the Iews who raised Objections and controversies about matters of far lesser moment and who did so stumble at taking away the particular Rite of circumcision for though they had Member-ship and Baptism allowed to their children yet that would not satisfie them without the Rite of circumcision also Acts 16. 3. 15. 1. 21. 21. And considering also how they had been from age to age wonted to this covenant and Church-estate of their children Sure'y we say they would have made a remarkable stand at this if the Apostles had taught or practised this discovenanting or unmembring of all their children and the Apostles would have needed both by preaching and writing to have bestowed much pains to have quieted them in this point But of any such thing there is a deep and total silence in all the new Testament Quest 2. Whether all children of whatever years or conditions be so as 1. Absent children never brought to the Church 2. Born before their Parents Covenanting 3. Incorrigible of seven ten or twelve years old 4. Such as desire not to be admitted with their Parents of such an age Ans. Onely such children as are in their minority covenant with their Parents therefore not all children of whatsoever years and conditions We do not hereby exclude such as being defective in their intellectuals are as children in respect of their incapacity That adult children are to covenant in their own persons see Ans to Quest 6th 2. Children in their minority though absent covenant in their
Parents and are Members with them Dout 29. 14 15. 3. Children born before their Parents covenanting yet if in their minority when their Parents enter into covenant do covenant with them and are Church-members Gen. 17. 25. The whole houshold of Lydia the Jailor and others were baptized therefore some children in minority which were born before except we shall deny so much as one child in minority then alive in all those houses 4. There is no sufficient reason at least ordinarily to conclude a child of seven ten or twelve years old to be incorrigible because a child at the ages mentioned is infans in foro Ecclesie i. e. He hath no voice nor is capable of being heard in a Church way therefore not incorrigible as to the Church Their obstinacy at the years mentioned is not capital By Gods Law Deut. 21. 18. There is still place for hope Prov. 19. 18. 22. 15. 5. Their desiring or not desiring in their own persons during the ages forementioned is not to be attended as the ground of proceeding in this case because the ground thereof is the covenant founded upon Divine Institution and in-depending upon such childrens desires Quest 3. Till what age shall they enter into Covenant with their Parents whether sixteen twenty one or sixty Ans. As long as in respect of age or capacity they cannot according to ordinary account be supposed able to act in a matter of this nature for themselves so long they shall enter in by means of their Parents covenant because whilst they are children and in their minority they are not otherwise capable of covenanting When adult they are to covenant in their own persons If a precise and certain age may here be prescribed surely it is safe to go at least so far as may answer the example Gen. 17. 25. Where Ishmael is admitted to the Seal by his Fathers covenant at thirteen years of age Howbeit the bounding of adult and in-adult age depending upon the judgment of prudence much is to be left unto the discretion of Officers and Churches in this case Quest 4. What Discipline a child is subject to from seven to sixteen years old Ans 1. Church Discipline is taken either more largely for the act of a Church-member dispensed to a Church-member as such by way of Spiritual watch rebuke c. Luke 17. 3 4. Mat. 18. 15. Or more strictly for the act of the whole Church dispensed by a Member thereof as in case of publick rebuke admonition excommunication Mat. 18. 17. 2 Cor. 2. 3. 1 Tim. 1. 20. In the first sense children in their minority are subject to Church Discipline immediately but not in the second 2. It is the Duty of the Elders and Church to call upon Parents to bring up their children in the narture and admonition of the Lord and to see as much as in them lieth that it be effectually done Eph. 6. 4. Officers and Churches respectively succeed Apostles in matters of ordinary practise 3. Besides their subjection to Ecclesiastical Discipline they are also subject to civil Discipline respectively according to their capacity whether Domesticall Scholasticall or Magistraticall Quest 5. Whether a Father may twice Covenant for his Children in Minority in several Churches Ans. 1. When a Parent is called to remove from one Church to another he is also called to enter into covenant in that Church to which he removes Paul was first baptized and in communion at Damascus Act. 9. 29. Afterwards removed unto Ierusalem and joyned to the Church there v. 26. This the very nature of order calleth for because otherwise he can neither do all the duties nor enjoy all the priviledges of a Member in the one Church or in the other not in the former because now he dwelleth not with them nor in the other because though dwelling amongst them he joyneth not with them in covenant 2. When the Parent thus removing entreth into covenant his children then in minority covenant in him The child and the power of Government over the child must go together Prov. 29. 15. 3. Hence it is the duty of Churches when they give Letters dimissory unto Parents to insert the dismission of the children then in minority with them 4. Adult children yet under the power of the Parents and removing with them are to give their personal consent unto this translation of their Membership and so to be orderly dismissed and received with their Parents otherwise they remain Members of the Church of which they were before Quest 6. Whether the end of a Deputy Covenant be not to supply personall incapacity or whether Children ripe for personall Covenanting in regard of age should Covenant by a Deputy as others that are unable thereunto Ans. 1. Children in their minority whose immediate Parents are in church-Church-Covenant do covenant in their Parents see the proof hereof in answer to Question 1. 2. Children adult ought to covenant in their own Persons To covenant in our own persons according to the sense of this Question is nothing else but an orderly and Church profession of our Faith or a personall publick and solemn avouching of God in an Ecclesiasticall way to be our God according to the covenant of his Grace the great duty of the people of God throughout all generations both in the times of the Law and Gospel Pregnant and Illustrious examples whereof we have in the time of Moses Deut. 26. 17 18 19. 29. 10 11 c. And of Ioshua Iosh. 24. 18 27. Of Asa 2 Chron. 15. 12. Of Iosiah 2 Chron. 34. 31 32. So Ier. 50 5. A considerable part of which Prophesie for it extends it self also to the ages after Christ we have accomplished Nehem 9. ult. 10. 28 29. The Priests and Levites and many others there named and their wives and their sons and their daughters every one that had knowledge and that had understanding did cleave unto their Brethren their Nobles and entred into a covenant and an Oath to walk in Gods Law so of the times under the Law Concerning the times under the Gospel in Isa. 62. 5. 41. 3 4 5. We read of the seed and off-spring of Iacob and Israel that when they should be sprung and grown up h. e. become adults they should both by word and writing by saying and subscribing with their hands engage themselves unto the Lord It is a part of instituted Gospel Worship The same reason which called the Fathers to confession before calleth the son also when adult It went for good reason among the Iews He is of age he shall speak for himself Ioh. 9. 21. What more meet than that the confession of our Faith should be made with our own mouths when we are able God avoucheth them in the same day when they avouch him It is a special engagement of the adult person to perform his covenant Psal. 119. 106. I have sworn and will perform Lastly It is a duty compared with others especially commended in the
Because the foundation of the covenant membership of the child is Divine Institution which imputes the Covenant Act only and not any other Act of the Parents to the child Quest 13. Whether a Members Childs unfitness for seals disableth not his seed for Membership or Baptism Ans. This question agreeing in scope with Quest 10. We refer thither for Answer thereunto Quest 14. Whether a Members Child be censurable for any thing but scandalous actions and not also for ignorance and inexperience Ans. A Members child like as it is with all other members is censurable only for scandalous sins Mat. 18. 15 18. 1 Cor. 5. 11. Consequently for ignorance and inexperience when scandalous for all ignorance and inexperience though blameable is not scandalous Rom. 14. 1. Heb 5. 12. Luke 9. 55. Quest 15. Whether a Members Child must only examine himself and may not be examined by others of his fitnesse for seals Ans. It is a duty of a Members child to examine himself and yet he is also subject to the examination of others 1. Because the Elders are to give an account which necessarily presupposeth that God hath given them power in some respects to take an account Heb. 13. 17. Acts 8. 37. 2. It pertaineth to them to see that the holy things be not defiled by the accesse of any unclean and unworthy person Ezek. 44. 23. Mal. 1. 6 7 9. 2. 1. 3. To teach by question and answer in the most profitable way for the instruction and edification of the younger sort and is commended occasionally to the practise of the Churches Gal. 6. 6. Quest 16. Whether only Officers must examine in private or else publike before the Church Ans. Concerning their examination by the Elders in private the former reasons conclude affirmatively whereunto may be added occasionally that Iames and the Elders contrive and prepare in private for the more orderly and quiet transactions of things in publick Acts 21. 22 23. 'T is spiritual wisdom by preparing the stones beforehand to prevent after noise in the building 1 Kin. 7. 6. Publick examination we also conceive to be regular edification or due satisfaction of the Church calling thereunto yet alwaies orderly that is by approbation of the Presbytery and the immediate proposal of the questions by them to the examinate Rev. 2. 2. 1 Cor. 14. 40. Quest 17. Whether the same grown Members Child must not be examined of his Charitable experience before Baptism as well as before the Lords Supper Ans. We think the Elders do well to take an account of children concerning the Principles of Religion according to their capacity before they be baptized If the children spoken of in the question be yet in their minority their right unto Baptism being founded consequently upon the Covenant made in their Parents this Examination is to be looked at as conducing to the better application but not to the being of their Baptism But if they be adult they are to give an account of their Faith and Repentance in their own persons before they be baptized Acts 8. 36 37. Mat 3. 6. See Ans. to Quest 6th Quest 18. Whether baptized Children sent away from the Church for settlement and not intending return are continually to be accounted Members Ans. Baptized children though locally removed from the Church unto which they belong are to be accounted Members until dismission death or censure dissolve that Relation because Christ the Institutor of this Relation onely by these waies dissolveth the same Quest 19. Whether Historical Faith and a blamelesse life fit a Members Child for all Ordinances and Priviledges and he must be examined only about them Ans. Not only historical Faith i. e. The meer knowledge of the fundamental Doctrine of Faith and a blamelesse life but also such an holding forth of Faith and Repentance as unto judgment of Charity sheweth an ability to examine themselves and to discern the Lords body is requisite to fit a Members child for all Ordinances and Priviledges and his blamelesse life notwithstanding a Members child is to be examined concerning the other qualifications That both the having and holding forth of Faith and Repentance are requisite to fit for all Ordinances see Ans. to Quest 7th That a meer Historical Faith and every blamelesse life is not sufficient to hold forth these qualifications appears 1. An Historical Faith as meerly such is insufficient Iam. 2. 19. 2. A blamelesse life is either taken for such a conformity of the external man to the Letter as exempts from censure Mat. 19. 20. Phil. 3. 6. Or for such a conformity of the whole man as in judgment of Charity commends a person to the Conscience of the beholder as in measure spiritual Phil. 1. 10. 2. 15. A blamelesse life in the first sense is not sufficient to qualifie for all Ordinances but for our fitnesse thereunto the Rule calleth for a blamelesse life in the second sense Matth. 3. 8 9. Iames 2. 21. Besides the holding forth of Faith and Repentance according to the Premises Quest 20. Whether if a Church-Member barely say it repents me though seventy times seven times following he relapse into the same gross evils as lying slander oppression c. He be to be forgiven and not censured Ans. Though we alwaies acknowledge that the Holy One of Israel is not to be limited by man or Angel as to the dispensation of his Grace yet so far as we remember the Scriptures seventy times seven times i. e. 490 relapses into the same grosse sin and repentance is an instance not extant there Without the fruits meet for repentance we are not called to forgive Mat. 3. 8. Luk. 17. 3. Notwithstanding a Brother offends seventy times seven times that is many times a definite number being put for an indefinite yet whilst God enables him to repent it is our duty to forgive 'T is not the number of offences but the holding forth of repentance in the offender that is the measure of our forgivenesse Mat. 18. 22. As God for Christs sake forgave us so ought we to forgive one another Ephes. 4. 32. To say in words I repent and to gainsay it in deeds is according to Scripture not to repent yea rather to continue in impenitency Tit. 1. 16. Iam. 2. 18 26. An ingenuous and solemn profession of repentance nothing appearing to the contrary is to be accepted as true repentance in the judgment of Charity Luk. 17. 3. 1 Cor. 13. 7. Quest 21. Whether a Member under offence and not censured or not with the highest Censure can authoritatively be denied the Lords Supper or other Church-priviledges Ans. 1. None but the Church can Authoritatively deny to the Member his accesse unto the Lords Supper because the power thereof is only delegated to that subject Mat. 18. 17. 2. The Church cannot deny unto a Member his accesse unto the Lords Supper untill she hath regularly judged him to be an offender 3. The censure of admonition is the first act whereby a Church doth judicially declare a Member to be an offender therefore till the censure of admonition be past a Member cannot Authoritatively be denied communion in the Lords Supper or other Church-priviledges because of offence 4. After the sentence of Admonition is past the offender now admonished may be yea thereby is Authoritatively denied to come unto the Lords Supper and to vote in the Church because he is judicially unclean Lev. 22. 3 4. 7. 20 21. Mat. 5. 23 24. Though he be not yet Censured with the Censure of Excommunication 5. All which notwithstanding there are cases wherein a Brother apparently discerned to be in a condition rendring him should he so proceed to the Lords Supper an unworthy Communicant may and ought regularly to be advised to forbear and it is his duty to hearken thereunto 6. Yet two things are here carefully to be attended 1. That Brethren be not many Masters taking upon them to advise and to admonish others to abstain without cause or before the time Iam. 3. 1. 2. That none forbear to come worthily which is their duty because to their private apprehension another is supposed at least to come unworthily which is their sin 7. In case the Church shall see cause to advise a Member to forbear and he shall refuse to hearken thereunto his refusal being also a violation of Church Order addeth contumacy to his offence and thereby ripens the Offender for Censure 19 4th 1657. Boston N. E. ERRATA PAg. 5. l. 1. read Act. 15. 10. p. 6. l. 23. r. Act. 2. 47. p. 14. l. 7. r. 2 Cor. 2. 6. l. 26. r. Act. 9. 19. p. 18. l. 5. for reason r. season p. 23. l. 30. for Church-act r. Covenant-act p. 24. l. 19 20. r. would have so p. 26. l. 20. for in r. is See the platform of Church Discipline cap 12. §. 7. See the platform of Discipline cap. 12. §. 7.