by true repentance Thus farre be your wordes Master Barrow Alas poore creatures how much is your siely blindnes to bee pitied that can set down things so directly contrary at the same instant yet espieit not for you say that Circumcision in their Apostasie was no true Sacrament vnto them neither sealed the Lordes couenant vnto them in that estate And yet you say it was true Circumcision concerning the outward cutting Likewise you say that Baptisme in the poperie cannot bee saide a true Sacrament or seale of Gods couenant vnto them And yet concerning the outward washing ye confesse it true Baptisme Is not this all one as if a man should say it is the true sacrament and seale of Gods couenant it is no true Sacrament nor seale of Gods couenant I pray you M. Barrow is not the outward washing the whole Baptisme and the whole seale of Gods couenant Was not the outward cutting the whole circumcision and the whole seale of Gods couenant And if the outward washing be the whole Sacrament and the whole seale of Gods couenant as indeede with the word it is for the inward grace is no part of the Sacrament but we may say that this inward grace is the thing represented and sealed by the Sacrament Then when you say concerning the outward washing it is true Baptisme doo you not affirme the whole Sacrament and so the whole seale of Gods couenant to be true But you say it is no true seale vnto them in their Apostasie or it doth not seale Gods Couenant vnto them in that estate but when the abuse thereof is purged away by true repentance What absurde speeches be these can a man deuife more grosse folly the outward true Sacrament is the true seale of Gods couenant euen vnto those which be hypocrites and vtterly voyde of fayth which haue it For if we shall say it is no true Sacrament or no seale of Gods couenant or that it doth not seale Gods couenant but vnto those which haue the inward grace the efficacie and fruite thereof then was it sometimes no true Sacrament which the Apostles themselues did administer because there were some vnto whome they did administer both the holy Baptisme and the Lords Supper which had not the inward grace And if the Sacraments be not the true seales of Gods Couenant euen vnto those which haue no fruite thereby how should the receiuers which are vtterly vnworthie be guiltie of the body and blood of our Lord Also when a man doth receiue Baptisme which is alwayes the seale of Gods couenant and is voyde of fayth and receiueth it at their handes which doo mixe it with sundry additions and corruptions and after commeth vnto true faith he himselfe is purged by his fayth and hath the vse of that seale which hee had before but without fruite we cannot say as you doo but with most wicked and foule absurditie that the Sacrament it selfe was a false Sacrament and now through sayth is purged and became a true Sacrament That which is the Lordes doth stand in it selfe pure and vndeâ—iled euen when corruptions bee added The Wheat in it self is as pure lying among the Chaffe as when it is purged from the Chaffe The golde and siluer in themselues be as pure when the rust is vpon them as when it is scowred off If a thing in the mixture of corruptions haue not a true being ye cannot by purging bring it to haue a true being And when you say that concerning the outward washing it is true Baptisme ministred in popery which is as much as I haue shewed as to say it is a true sacrament concerning the whole because the outward washing is the whole and therefore all that Iohn the Baptist taketh to himselfe is this I baptize ye with water Doo you not acknowledge a ministrie in popery Will you say it is concerning the outward washing true Baptisme by whomesoeuer it bee done Nay you say where there is no true ministrie there is no true Sacrament Then where there is no part of a true ministrie there is no part of a true Sacrament In your other booke Master Barrow which you tearme a briefe discouerie of the false Church from the 102. page vnto 121. you make a large discourse about this point taking vppon you to bee a stickeler betwéene Master Doctor Some and the Scholler of Oxenford writing against him in defence of Master Penrie There you lay about you with your woodknife vpon both parties Master Doctor Some holding the Baptisme administred in the popery to be true Baptisme alleaging that Master Caluine held so as in déede all the Churches and all the most excellent and worthy lights which God hath raised vp in these last times doo hold the same with sound reasons from the Scripture you scoffingly tearme him a great Clarke and say that in certaine marginal notes added to his booke this inconuenience was moued vnto his further consideration how hee would auoyde the blowe of flat Schisme Also you say he was friendly aduised to spare this deepe diuinitie deriued from Master Caluine and others of this time leaft hâ—e should open such a gappe to the Papistes as neither the Church of England nor Geneua nor any other that hold this opinion shall euer be able to shut for if it be true Baptisme deliuered in the Church of Rome then will it follow that the Popish priests be true ministers And then may the seale of the couenant be giuen to open Idolaters then dooth Gods couenant of peace belong to the babilonish harlot then hath Christ many bodies or else cannot three so diuers Churches as the Church of Rome the Church of England the Church of Geneua all or any two of them I will not say any one bee true Churches TheÌ„ he may be an husband where his wiues rule Infinit other absurdities would then proue lawful And let me adde yet this vnto the rest if the Baptisme of the Church of Rome be a true Sacrament then haue they one true Sacrament and another false Thus you wound the one party that is Master Doctor Some Then touching the Scholler of Oxenford hée is blamed for that he alleageth for his patron Master Doctor Fulke to proue that the Baptisme administred in popery is no true Baptisme And he is set to counteruaile Master Caluin as his equall in all learning Grieuous absurdities you shew in déede which must néeds follow from the opinion of the foresaid Scholler Touching the comparison betwéene Master Fulke and Master Caluine for my part I am not so learned as that I can bring a full measure to measure them iustly withall I know not what might slip from Doctor Fulke in any part of his writings vpon some occasion which may séeme as though he fauored that opinioÌ„ but this I know that sundry times crauing his iudgement in that matter he held it to be true Baptisme which hath béen administred in the popery And what a thing is this Master Barrow that
you to disproue it But that then all the world is within the Church holy all being sprong within farre lesse then a thousand generations of many faithfull and lineally come from the Patriarch Noah And that then ought the Israelites vnder the lawe to haue circumcised all their captiue Cananites and heathen that came into their power Then ought the Church now to baptize al the seed euen of the most wicked and vngodly whether Turkes Papists Idolaters c. You are out of the way Master Barrow and the faster you runne the further for you should remember that I spake of the seede of such prophane men as remayne in the Church and professe Christ and are sealed with the seale of the Couenant Will you make no difference betweene those which were or are without the Church â—ncircumcised or vnbaptized not professing the God of Abraham or the faith of Christ and those which were or be in the Church circumcised or baptized professing the the God of Abraham and the faith of Christ The Cananites and other heathen if they forsooke false Gods and imbraced the religion of the true God were circumcised so may the Turks and heathen be baptized at this day But while they are without and blaspheme and renounce Christ what hath the Church to do with their children which are not vnder her gouernment and power to bring vp The Church is to take care that al those children may bee instructed in the faith and guided in the way of godlines which she admitteth vnto baptisme For the places of Scripture where I sayd that the couenant with Abraham was made thus I will bee thy God and the God of thy seede and that to a thousand generations Exod. 20. And that because of this S. Peter calleth all the Iewes in generall the children of the Prophets and of the couenant Act. 3. 25. and Paule Rom. 9. 4 For which respect they are called holy Rom. 11. And the childreÌ„ of Idolaters among them are called Gods children Ezech. 16. The whole nation of the Iewes a very fewe men excepted did at sundrie times very grieuously sinne agaynst the Lord and the greater part of those neuer returned by true repentance but yet remayned in the profession of the God of Abraham and were circumcised If the couenant had been disanulled to their seede how could Saint Peter say they were the children of the Couenant Or how could Saint Paule say that theirs was the adoption and the Couenant If none were outwardly to stand vnder the Couenant but the elect how should this haue been spoken Or if the Couenant had been disanulled by their fathers sinnes Unto this Master Barrow you haue made none answer at all But you take occasion at that which I alleage out of Exod. 20. to make some colour or shewe of matter and say that I wittingly suppresse the next words of the sentence which are these of them that loue me and keepe my commandements which shew to whom this couenant is made and belongeth and the condition on our part And you require that I should â—heâ— one plate through the whole Scripture where the Lords Couenant is made vnto vs without this condition and then you say I may peraduenture cléere my selfe and mine ordinarie for publishing this wicked and diuellish heresie so directly contrary to the whole Scriptures in more then a thousand places Thus it is your pleasure Master Barrow euen in your deepe ignorance and that in the grounds of Religion to impugne the stablenes of Gods couenant made vnto his people It is a thing indeed which any godly mind may with horror tremble at when with such furie you terme it a diuellish heresie which is indeed that doctrine of grace deliuered in the Scriptures whereby the glorie of the Lord is most highly magnified It is certayne that the Couenant or promise of God dooth not profite any vnlesse they receiue it as the holy Ghost speaketh mixed with faith Heb. 4. 2. Then where true faith is there is sanctification there is obedience according to the measure of that faith greater or lesse Hereupon it followeth that as God is become their God so they are become his people and this is required on our part But now to inferre vpon this that the stablenes of Gods couenant dependeth vpon this condition if we keepe his commandements and that a man yea a whole Church doth forfeit the couenant as your phrase is if they shewe rebellion is most wicked For what is more manifest then this that if it had been so the couenant had been forfeited almost vnto all Israel and that very often for they oftentimes rebelled agaynst God most grieuously and brake promise on their part The complaints of the Prophets are many sundrie Psalmes doo set it forth the booke of the Iudges declareth how oft they rebelled and fel vnto foule Idolatrie and how oft he plagued them and humbled them by deliuering them into the hands of heathen Kings You will say they rebelled but repented And in the dayes of euery godly Iudge and godly King were the visible Church But in the times of their defection when they committed Idolatrie you say they were not the visible Church Yea you alleage testimonies of Scripture to prooue that in their defection they were not the Lords people as Deuteronom 32. 19. Micha 2. 7 8 9 Amos. 8. 2. Ezech. 16. Alas Master Barrow would any man looke for such matter at their hands that had but euen read ouer the Byble It is declared by Moses that God chose them to be his people not for their owne righteousnes but of free mercie and made his couenant with them Likewise it is most certayne that hee continued his faith towards them not for that they kept couenant with him for they often rebelled but for his own names sake To say that they forfeited the Couenant by transgressing his commandements and recouered it agayne by repentance and so to be now out now in is that I may say no worse most foolishly spoken For they did not enter agayne into a couenant which was lost because they repented but contrariwise they repented because they were in the couenant That is because he had sworne vnto them to bee their God hee not onely brought them downe by afflictions chastising them as a father but gaue them the graces of repentance This is shewed Psalm 106. where the Prophet hauing set foorth their manifold rebellions and the plagues wherewith he plagued them he sayth When they were brought downe by affliction he looked to their distresse and heard their cry And remembred for them his couenant and repented for the multitude of his mercies The Lord sayth also He foreknewe them to be an hard people that their necke was as a barre of yron and their forehead of brasse and that they would deale vnfaithfully Esay 48. vers 4. 8. Yet he sayth I will be long suffering for my names sake and for my praise I will refraine mine anger towards
when you haue a long time taken on you yéeld the whole matter vnto Master Doctor Some For what hath he said more then that it was and is true Baptisme touching the outward washing Doth he euer say that all which had the true sâ—ale had also the inward grace And for warding the blow of flat schisme it is a very weake blow The Romish Antichrist vsurped an vniust power and tyrannie and brought in many most wicked abominations cannot the Churches cast him foorth with his inuentious but they commit Schisme Can any thing be more friuolous Are all seuerall kingdomes tied vnto Rome or shall we be tied to ioyne where there be some remnants of a Church with Idolatrie And concerning the rest your self do in effect now confesse that some part of Christs ministry remaineth in the popery when you say that their Baptisme concerning the outward washing is true Baptisme And moreouer what should be we dispute not but this proueth that the true seale of Gods couenant is giuen to open Idolaters For the seale is the same in it selfe but the Idolater hath not the fruite of it vntill he come to true faith And so your next absurdities fall off themselues séeing the hauing of the true seale that is the outward washing in Baptisme dooth not make the papists true Christians nor proue that Gods couenant of peace and loue dooth belong to the Romish harlot so many among them as come to true faith receiue that vse of the seale All this I say dooth follow vpon your owne confession who build with the one hand and breake down with the other But it passeth all the rest that then Christ must néeds haue diuers seuerall bodies or else he cannot stand an head to thrée so diuers Churches as the Church of Rome the Church of England and the Church of Geneua Why Master Barrow you wil not deny but that to the elect in the Church of Rome Christ is the head And this is further to be noted that when we speak of a visible Church we speake not of men alone but of Gods ordinances And so touching the holy Sacrament of Baptisme in the Church of Rome and so much of the truth as remaineth Christ is the Author of them and so standeth the head of his own he is not the head of the Apostasie or to the wicked inuentions So then in all Churches Christ is the Author and head of that which is his ordinance and of those which belong vnto him What blasphemies are then hereby allowed And if the Papists haue quite ouerthown the one Sacrament by turning it from a Sacrament into a Sacrifice propitiatory what reason is it therefore to say Baptisme is ouerthrowne We must yet a little further deale about the Church of Rome because you make all our people to be but as heathen without the couenant and not rightly entred to become a visible Church but all receiued in at the sound of her Maiesties trumpet I say our people stood vnder the couenant before as a part of the visible Church and that our soueraigne Quéene did not compell those which before were not vnder the couenaÌ„t to become the church but by her regall power giuen vnto her of God banished the vsurped power of Antichrist abolished Idolatry and compelled her people hauing receaued the seale of the couenant and professing Christ to receiue also the true doctrine This was not to begin a Church but to reforme a Church hereupon it falleth out in question whether the Church of Rome were the visible Church of Christ in time of Idolatry It is vsually said that the Church is in the papacy but the papacy is not the Church I said we may rather say to speake more plainely the papacy was in the Church because Antichrist who brought in all the papacy erected his throne in the Church You begin with this Master Barrow and say that I hold it not enough to affirme with the learned deuines that the inuisible Church of God is in the papacy as in all other places of the world because God hath his elect there and in all other places but to be singular I haue inuerted the proposition and say that the papacy is in the Church O Master Barrow it is your bold ignorance as in all other matters Who be those learned diuines that when they say the Church is in the papacy but the papacy is not the Church doo meane no more but that there be Gods Elect as in other places of the world If you haue any modesty bring forth some one learned deuine which is of that iudgement I did like rather to say the papacy is in the Church then to say the Church is in the papacie because I sée diuers doo mistake it as though it were onely meant that in the papacy there are Gods Elect and no further that is no outward visible Church in any respect I doo not differ any iot in the spéech from the sense which Master Caluine and others doo giue for when I say the papacy is in the church but the papacy is not the church by the papacy we must néeds vnderstand that vsurped tyranny of the Pope and his Clergy with all their abominable inuentions By the Church we may not vnderstand only Gods Elect but also so much of Gods ordinances as remaine not only in the points of doctrine and publike profession of the name of Christ but also in the holy Baptisme the seale of the couenant which all haue and may so farre be called the visible Church That the papacy should inuade the visible Church remaine in it and not vtterly or quite destroy it I did alleage that Saint Paule saith Antichrist should sit in Gods Temple Now let vs see whether this bée not the meaning of the most learned diuines when they say the Church is in the papacy Master Caluine handleth this point in the fourth booke of his Institutions Chap. 2. section 11. 12. Which booke though it be in our language yet is it little read and studied of our people as the weakenes and readines of many to be seduced by hereticks and Schismaticks dooth euidently declare I will set downe his words for such as haue not the booke But yet as of old time saith Master Caluine among the Iewes there remained certaine peculiar prerogatiues of the Church so doo wee not at this day take from the papists those steppes of the Church which God would haue to remaine among them notwithstanding the dissipation God had once made his couenant with those Iewes that same couenant did continue vpholden by the stablenes of it selfe as it were wrastling against their impietie rather then kept of them Such therefore is the certainty and constancy of Gods goodnes that there remained the couenant of the Lord neither could his faith giuen be made voyde by their vnfaithfulnes neither could circumcision be so prophaned by their impure hands but that it was still the true signe and Sacrament of his couenant Whereupon
is not cast out of his house nor made subiect these be most friuolous and fantasticall imaginations but in his most high and soueraigne power he vseth Antichrist and Satan as the instruments of his wrath not vtterly to rase and destroy his Temple but miserably to afflict the chosen and so seduce the reprobate euen all wicked hypocrites which are in the visible Church I knowe not what you will vnderstand by diuiding but the diuell may in some sense be sayd to diuide with God in that he receiueth one part vnto damnation The third is If Antichrist sit in the church then the church of Christ may remayne subiect vnto and be gouerned by Antichrist Here we must distinguish First the visible Church consiseth of men and of Gods ordinances The men are of two sorts the elect and the reprobate He exerciseth a sauage tyrannie and oppresseth the elect whome yet he cannot bring into his subiection to make them hang their faith upoÌ„ him or his lawes For God did miraculously preserue a remnant in the poperie which were not vtterly poysoned He corrupteth the lawes and ordinances of Christ but yet had not power giuen him to destroy all His full dominion is ouer the reprobate which receiue his marke and worship him The fourth is If Antichrist sit in the Church then the Church is subiect vnto two heads and Christ then is not the onely head This is fully answered in the former for his tyrannie and vsurpation dooth not make him head but vnto those whose head Christ is not more then by hypocriticall profession of his name The fift is If Antichrist in the Church then Antichrists ministers and marked seruants may be brought into and set ouer the Church of God then is not Christs ministrie which he hath ordeined in his Gospell and his Church permanent vnto the worlds end but variable at the will of man and then may the Church of God cast out Christs ministrie and receiue Antichrists This is also most friuolous for as Antichrist did almost destroy all but yet not all in other things so in the ministrie for the ministrie of Christ was not vtterly destroyed Agayne the Church if you vnderstand Gods true people did not this but Antichrist did it The sixt is That if Antichrists lawes may be brought and set vp and remayne in the Church then Christ is not the onely Prophet and law giuer and then may the Church be built vpon another foundation then vpon Gods word Christ is the onely true Prophet whose lawes onely are wholesome Antichrist hath vsurped a power to make lawes and to set them vp in the Church The elect though some of them for a time haue gone a stray and followed Antichrist vntill it pleased GOD to open their eyes and many of them holding Christ haue been infected and stayned with sundrie errors of Antichrist yet their saluation being onely through faith it cannot be sayd that they were built vpon any other foundation then that which the Prophets and Apostles haue layd The reprobate which haue worshipped the beast though in respect that hauing been borne vnder the Christian profession and had the true seale of the Couenant and professed the name of Christ they might bee the visible Church or of the visible Church yet they were not built vpon Christ vnto saluation but vpon the lawes of Antichrist vnto destruction The seuenth is That if all Antichrists abominations heresies and Idolatries may bee brought into and remayne in the Church of God then no blasphemie heresie Apostasie or any thing that man can commit or deuise can break the couenant If the fayth of God might be made of none effect by the vnfaithfulnes of men it were a wofull case The couenant of God is founded vpon free grace The Lord would not euen because of his Couenant suffer the deuill and Antichrist vtterly to deface his Temple but preserued the holy seede preserued some of his ordinances yea so farre that in some sorte the Couenant was not disanulled to the very reprobate but that outwardly they stoode vnder it in their Apostasie and it might bee said of them though indeede they were no true Children as Saint Paul sayth of the rebellious Iewes theirs is the Couenant and the Adoption The eight is That if those that worship the beast and his Image may be sayd to be in the Church and their seede outwardly within the Couenant then the most abominable and execrable in this estate may be sayd members of Christ washed and purged with his blood sainctified and led by his spirite in assurance of saluation for none can be sayd to bee within the Church but the members of the Church And whosoeuer we may affirme to be within the Church those so long as they continue in that estate we are also to iudge assuredly saued for any thing to vs reuealed or knowen to the contrary These â—re things easily spoken by such as are bolde to vtter whatsoeuer they imagine The Prophets complayned that the great multitude both of Iuda and the ten Tribes were rebels and that the Lord had but a remnant among them shew when that multitude of open wicked ones and their seede were cast out from being the visible Church then shew when they were receiued in agayn For both these you must do because the whole nation when Christ came were the children of the Couenant it is sayd that Christ came among his owne and his owne receiued him not You must prooue that the Scribes and Pharisies the high Priests and all the Capitall enemies of our Sauiour Christ were deemed vndoubtedly saued euen when they shewed their enmitie against him For they were then in the Church They could not sit in Moses chayre and not be in the Church The Uineyard was not taken from those wicked husbandmen which had slayn the seruants vntill they had slayn the sonne and heire himselfe These things are so manifest by the Scriptures Master Barrow that if it shall not please God to open your eyes to see your palpable grosse ignorauce and bolde presumption yet others may see and tremble least God giue them ouer also for the pride of their hearts Whereas I sayd that the Apostasie is in the Church but not the Church you think it strange repugnancie Yet indéed there is none as may appeare by that which I haue set down before and should appeare vnto you if your minde were not so deepely infected with the principles of Donatisme You runne still vpon this Rock that because none ought to bee in the Church but such as appeare godly therefore no open Idolaters can be sayd to be in the visible Church to stand outwardly and their seede in any respect vnder the couenant I haue plainely prooued the contrary What ought to be is one thing and what hath béen or what is is another To your other question I answere that it is no Schisme to depart from the Church of Rome although in some respects they were
⧠A short Reply vnto the last printed books of Henry Barrow and Iohn Greenwood the chiefe ringleaders of our Donatists in England VVherein is layd open their grosse ignorance and foule errors vpon which their whole building is founded By George Gyfford Minister of Gods holy worde in Maldon Imprinted at London by Thomas Orwin for Tobie Cooke and are to be solde at the Tygers head in Pauls Churchyard 1591 To the Reader THere were good Christian Reader foure haynous accusatioÌ„s laid against the Church of England for which the accusers haue condemned her all her publique assemblies as most wicked Antichristian Idolatrons synagogues of Sathan I shewed how falsely they doo accuse and howe presumptuously agaynst God they doo condemne And that indeede they are the very same with the auncient Donatists They haue replyed and published in print their defence but their bookes are intercepted yet some few haue escaped and are dispersed among theyr fellowes Wherefore I hold it needfull to publish some answere not dealing with euery error and absurditie for that would aske the trauaile of some yeares but onely with the chiefe grounds of their Schisme In this I trust euery simple man that hath a Christian heart shall see the effectuall power of Sathan when he turneth himselfe into the likenes of an Angell of light to seduce ignorant men which are lifted vp in their mindes with opinion of their knowledge For being men vnlearned onely some little froth excepted I speake thus because they peruert that little which they haue read in other means writings in sundry poynts yet as if they were sent from heauen with reuelations or as great Apostles they take vpon them to confute and controll and condemne all Churches and all the most worthy Instruments which GOD hath raysed vp in these last times For knowe this good Reader that the foure accusations which they haue brought agaynst the Church of England to condemne her â—â—â— also though with some differences brought against all Churches in Europe and that in expresse wordes in these their last bookes For the prescript formes of prayers which all the Reformed Churches doo vse they condemne as most horrible and 〈◊〉 blasphemie The people they say are prophane multitudes They say that in all Europe in all these knowen partes of the world there is no minister of Christ The gouernment by Elderships they condemne as a most proude thing as being without any warrant of Gods word Doo but readeouer these fewe things which I haue noted out of their bookeâ— and iudge how fit they be for such a work as they haue taken in hand whether it be like that GOD hath sent them euen as it were Moses and Aaron to conduct his people out of Aegipt from vnder the bondage of Pharaoh for so they take it as appeareth by their owne wordes speaking of those which cleaue vnto them Many they see by Gods mightie hand say they escaped and marching with the banner of the Gospell displayed before all the inchaunters of Aegipt and Pharaoh his troupes pag. 5. of the Epistle And if it seeme lost time to stand vpon such grosse things yet take this profit as to see how needfull it is not to be high minded and presumptuously bolde in Gods matters but to feare and tremble with Humilitie To Master Barrow and Master Greenwood YE complaine much of hard dealing offered you and say ye are blasphemed with odious tearmes And if ye doo erre your desire is to be reduced by a Christian manner It is certaine when men are cleane awâ—ye in simplicitie the matter toucheth but themselues they are to be dealt withall without seeking their disgrace But when they be publike and notorious seducers defacing Christs Ministers and many poore sheepe of Christ are in hazard to be spoyled They that take it to be vncharitable dealing to disclose and to paynt out such seducers in their colours and to disgrace them vtterly to the end that the simple may not be spoyled by theÌ„ as a praie doo want some iudgement For as it is Christian charitie in the Shepheards to deale meekely with the sheepe so is it high treachery and vnfaythfull dealing to Christ and his Church when the VVoolfe dooth come in sheepes clothing not to pluck it off and to let the sheepe see that he is a VVoolfe VVhy else did our Sauiour call the Pharisies hypocrites Serpents and generations of Vipers VVhy sayd S. Paule of the false Apostles beware of dogges Ye haue drawen many into an outragious presumption against God and his people flat contrary to the rules of his holy word as shall appeare in the discourse Ye hauerent out of the hearts of many all reuerence and loue towards the preachers of the Gospell and led them into such a presumptuous opinion of their owne vnderstanding that if they become not heretikes yet experience doth teach that many of them growe into irreligious prophanenes Master Barrow and Master Greenwood I doo not know your persons and I protest vnto ye there is no priuate thing hath moued me to seeke your disgrace but indeede the care of Christs sheepe And let it appeare by the things which follow whether I haue done ye any wrong A short Replie vnto the last printed Bookes of Henry Barrow and Iohn Greenwood the chiefe ringleaders of our Donatistes in England I Did lay to your charge M Barrow and Master Greenwood a matter very haynous and detestable yea most odious in the sight of euery good man as namely intollerable pride presumption and wicked intrusion into Gods office for that ye vtterly condemne and abandon all our assemblies as haynousty faulty and so wilfully obstinate in such principall transgressions as that they haue forfayted the couenant and are separated from the fayth and communion of Christ I set downe reasons from Gods word to conuince yee in this that if it pleased God ye might repent for this sauage crueltie by which ye indeuour to rend and teare vp all the Lords tender plants If not yet that others might see tremble at your inordinate and outragious boldenes Vnto this ye haue replied stifly affirming and labouring to maintayne that ye haue rightly condemned and cast foorth our assemblies as most wicked Antichristian Synagogues Adding moreouer that ye lie in prison as Christs poore afflicted seruants the Lords witnesses agaynst vs that your bonds and sufferings are glorious and that I as a wicked false Prophet and as a marked seruant of Antichrist haue vncharitably reuiled ye both for those former wordes as also that I that tearme you Donatistes Schismatikes c. If ye be Christs seruants and haue iustly accused condemned and cast forth doing no more that Christ hath sent ye for and authorised ye to doo then haue I vnchristianly and as a false Prophet indeede reuiled ye and your glorious sufferinges But then take this withall by the way that the Donatists in olde time and the Annabaptists of late daies were Christs poore afflicted
haue this power whole and seuerall by it selfe I take it you shall neuer be able to prooue that it ought to be much lesse shall you be able to prooue them to bee no true Churches which haue not in euery seuerall congregation established the power of excommunication For touching excommunication there be Churches which are true Churches of Christ which haue it not nor iudge it needefull Master Beza in his booke against Erastus pag. 2. sayth that he was charged by some to esteeme them to be no Churches which wanted excommunication or such a Presbyterie which was vniustly layd to his charge as he sayth the perpetuall conuiction of him and those Churches did sufficiently witnes You haue more worke in hand here Master Barrow then you bee wate of For if you had proued that the Church of England hath no power to excommunicate yet there remayneth a further thing which is not so easie as you take it to bee conuinced namely that it is no true Church of Christ which hath no excommunication All Churches are against you in this poynt and the light of the truth will be as strong agaynst you as it hath beene agaynst the Annabaptists Here you make the chalenge anewe and say If I would vouchsafe to take mine aduersaries with me into the field and giue them leaue to bring and to vse their owne weapons I answere that for all your outcries yet there hath been no one weapon taken from ye nor yet cut shorter That speciall weapon which you now haue drawen and burnished wherein you repose your trust is this Where all the prophane and vngodly are receiued into and retayned in the Church as members thereof there cannot bee sayd the true established Church of Christ But in the Church of England all the prophane multitudes vngodly of the land were receiued into are retayned in their Church as members thereof Therefore the Church of England in this estate cannot be sayd the true established Church of Christ You doo here conclude a new question for there may bee a true Church of Christ and yet not in all things rightly or truly established Agayne there be foure terminie in this your Sylogisme because this clause all the prophane vngodly is taken more largely in the maior then it is in the minor or else your maior is false also the scriptures which you quote falsely applied It is certain that God did separate his Church from the Heathen Nations that did not call vpon his name Such were not compelled to enter But if you looke vpon the Church of Israel the Nation of the Iewes which had the couenant when they fell into Idolatry and horrible impietyes you shall see that all the godly Kings of Iuda that reformed and restored the true worship of God compelled all to the same Doo you reade that the Idolaters or their seede which still after a sorte professed the God of Abraham and had the seale of the couenant vpon them were cast foorth You may sée in the Prophet Sophonie that in the dayes of the godly King Iosias many of those Idolaters did turne but feynedly for feare of punishment and secretly worshipped Idoles The nation of England did professe Iesus Christ and were all sealed with the seale of the couenant but yet ouerwhelmed generally in Idolatry and many horrible sinnes Our Noble Quéene Elizabeth placed by God vpon the Regall throne compelleth them all being her subiects according to their vow in Baptisme to renounce Idolatry and to imbrace the holy fayth and Religion of Christ appoynting sharpe penaltyes for such as shall obstinately persist either in Idolatrie or other horrible sinnes Now tell me Master Barrow what doth she herein other then the godly kings of Iuda did She receiueth not in nor compelleth Turkes Iewes or heathen but onely such as are Christians by profession And therefore you may see that if you will haue your maior proposition agree with the Scriptures it must needes be taken more largely than your minor And thus you are come forth into the field with your choyce weapon which deceiuethye vtterly But yet here to make some face of true zeale you reckon vp a number of horrible sinnes Indeede God requireth that al his seruants should vtterly abhorre and condemne such vices and speak against them but he alloweth not any to take occasion thereby to condemne his Church Such vices abound but yet there are many thousands which cannot â—e charged with any one foule vice whose conuersation in the profession of the true fayth is hath been with much more sobrietie and modesty then yours Master Barrow vnlesse your time past haue beene better spent then the present And when God shall open your eyes his terror shall be vponye ye shall know that I haue not by the deuill blasphemed yee but shewed by Gods worde that you haue with horrible presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgement seate and with most sauage crueltie sought to rend vp and to teare the Lordes tender plants In the next place commeth the Baptizing the Children of prophane men which professe Christ and remaine in the Church Here Master Barrow you are in a wonderfull displeasure and can not satisfie your selfe with all the varietie of odious tearmes which you doe euen fome out The heresie which I haue vttered about this matter is so foule as you take it that after many extreame wordes you say you may by the direct warrant of Gods word hold me and mine ordinary most heynous falsefiers and corrupters of the whole law and worde of God most blasphemous and peruitions false Prophets A man would thinke at the reading of these words that the whole Church were on fire especially if I should repeate but the one halfe of your speeches but that we know Master Barrow it is but your fashion If it please God he may giue you some spark of modestie But touching the matter it selfe I did affirme that the children of prophane men which remayn in the Church professing Christ whether they bee close hypoerites or openly wicked in conuersation do belong to the couenannt are to be baptized so that the Church take care for their instruction and education in the true fayth Your cauills here about verball confession which God alone can iudge about parish assemblies which are members of a Church though euery one by it selfe seuerally hath not the full power and so to becalled a Church about expresse contrariety error and sacriledge in my proposition as you say are not worth the mention Touching the Scriptures which I alleage to prooue that the interest in the couenant doth not depend vpon the syncere fayth or godlines of the next parents youcrie out of so many errors mischines and blasphemies that you doubt not as you say to pronounce and reiect these doctrines of this false Prophet most blasphemous and deuilish But now if it be true which I say and proue agaynst whom haue you powred foorth your poyson And what bring
thee that I may not cut thee off vers 9. It were too long to repeate all the Scriptures where the Lord pronounceth that he chose them for his owne names sake that they dealt vnfaithfully and yet he kept them as his people and forgaue their iniquities euen for himselfe You will say that Gods couenant was to the elect among them but the rest were not vnder the couenant nor the visible Church This is your grieuous blindnes that you cannot see that many stand outwardly vnder the couenant and are the visible Church which yet receiue no benefite thereby being wicked euen voyd of faith And for this cause although the great swarme of the Israelites were wicked reprobates and as the Prophet sayth but a remnant saued yet for their outward profession the whole Nation was euer sayd to stand vnder the couenant Otherwise how could it be sayd That Christ came among his owne and his owne receiued him not Ioh. 1. How could these wicked infidels be called his owne in any other respect but that they stood outwardly vnder the couenant and were the visible Church And therefore when the bodie of that people should stand no longer vnder the couenant to be the visible Church but as our Sauiour sayth the kingdome of God should be taken from them Math. 21. The Lord to shew that he had still kept his couenant with them euen vntill that time in which they now breake off themselues and that hee had giuen their mother no bill of diuorse asketh where the bill of diuorse of their mother is by which he had put her away Esay 50. vers 1. The tenne Tribes which fell from the house of Dauid and worshipped Idols were yet in some sort euen the whole bodie of them vnder the Couenant and were so farre the visible Church for otherwise how should the Lord bee called their God For when Benhadab made warre agaynst Achab and tooke the foyle and his seruants counselled him to enterprise the warre agayne and to fight with them in the valleyes saying That the God of Israel was the God of the mountaines the Lord tooke it agaynst himselfe and gaue them the ouerthrow the second time 1. King 20. Achazias K. of Israel being sicke vpon a fall he had taken sent his messengers to enquire of Baalzebub the God of Ekron Elias the Prophet is sent to meete them and to say Is it not because there is no God in Israel that you goe to enquire of Baalzebub the God of Ekron 2. King 1. Now for the places which you alleage that they became not his people you doo but peruert them For the song Deuteron 32. vers 5. If you will vnderstand it so as you here apply it how should they after bee called his people and his seruants in the same song vers 36. The breuitie and the placing of the words in that sentence doo make it darke This is the sense That the peruerse generation corrupt themselues by their owne vice which is not of his children For the holines of Gods children is from him but when they transgresse and corrupt themselues it is from their owne vice And hee calleth all the whole people his sonnes and daughters not in respect of some former estate as you vainly imagine seeing that very fewe of them were his sonnes and daughters indeede in their best estate but in respect that they stood outwardly vnder his couenant and professed his name And that the Lord sayth Yesterday which was my people is risen as an enemie Mich. 2. vers 8. is not to shewe that they were now quite remooued and cast off by the Lord from being vnder his couenant though the multitude were the Church but in name but their hostilitie among themselues both in Iuda and Israel The ende which God sayd was come to his people Amos. 8. is meant of their subuersion and captiuitie Will you say that they were neuer after nor no longer Gods people If you dare not say this why doo you alleage that place You would haue me shewe some place in the Scriptures where God maketh his couenaut without this condition that they shall bee his people and obey him That is not the question Master Barrow but this whether when men breake couenant and promise with God by disobeying him whose couenant yet they chalenge his couenant be broken and abrogated towards them And for this I shewed you the plaine Scripture Psalm 89. where the Lord saith If they should for sake his law he would visite their offences or defections with the rod but he will not disanull his mercie towards them nor falsifie his fayth That he will not prophane his couenaunt nor alter the thing which is gone out of his lippes Master Barrow what can be more expresse then this to shew the stablenes of Gods souenant dependeth not vpon our obedience or vpon that condition which you speake of and say the couenant standeth no longer then they stand obedient Why did you not answere this place but require still to haue that shewed which is playnly shewed you before Solomon on his part brake couenant with God will you say he did forfeyte the couenant I conclude therfore with the saying of Saynt Paul where hee speaketh of the Iewes what preferment they had aboue other What if some of them were vnfaythfull shall their vnbeliefe make the fayth of God of none effect God for bid Yea let God be true and euery man a lyer Rom. 4. Cease therefore Master Barrow to hang the stablenes of Gods couenant vpon the obedience of man and do not so peruersly reason against the truth in affirming that the couenant of God was disanulled toward the Iewes not to stand as the visible Church before such time as they had reiected Christ The next thing is that I say eyther wee are within the couenant from our Aucestors and haue the seale thereof euen Baptisme or else your selues are without Baptisme and so must either with the Catabaptists rebaptize or else holde the couenant without a seale Neyther of these you will doo and yet stand in it that we haue no true Church nor true Sacraments This therefore is your answere The Israelites in their Schisme and the Iewes in their Apostasie still had and vsed Circumcision This Circumcision was no true Sacrament vnto them neither sealed the Lords couenant vnto them in that estate Yet was this circumcision true Circumcision concerning the outward cutting and was vpon their repentance and returne neither defaced nor reiterate but they were restored to the Temple and receiued to the pasouer In like manner in this generall Apostasie and defection from the Gospell the Baptisme continued in these Apostaticall and false Churches cannot in this estate thus administred be sayd a true Sacrament or seale of Gods couenant vnto them Yet concerning the outward washing it is true Baptisme the outward action neede not and ought not to bee againe repeated after the abuse thereof in the false Church is purged away
the visible Church This matter Master Barrow hath beene as throughly pursued by the Papists as euer you or any Donatist shall be able and such answere they haue receiued from the Churches that haue made separation from them as that they haue no cause to glory The ten Tribes remayned still in some sorte the visible Church and vnder the Couenant as I haue prooued before but yet they were not such a true Church as men might ioyne withall in their worship and therefore when Ieroboam had set vp the golden Calues the Leuites departed from them and went to Ierusalem 2. Chron 11. 23. 14. Then you come to expound how this may bee taken that Antichrist shal sit in the Temple of God And first as you take it his sitting in the Temple of God may be vnderstood as in regarde that he tooke his originall before he was reuealed Let any simple man looke vpon the wordes of Saint Paul and see whether he speake of any such close sitting Then that he should sit where sometimes the true Churches haue beene which hee should so destroy and waste as there should be no shape or steps of any of them left vpon the earth as it was foretolde Matth. 24 29. Reuel 6. 14. See what two places Master Barrow hath found to proue Antichrist should vtterly destroy the visible Church These be the wordes And immediately after the oppression of those dayes the Sunne shall be darkned the Moone shall not giue her light and the starres shall fall from heauen and the powers of heauen shall be shaken This is spoken of Christs comming to iudgment and is meant indeed of the Sunne the Moone and stars themselues and therefore most foolishly concluded that Antichrist shall vtterly destroy the visible Church And for the place in the Reuelation The heauen departed away as a booke that is roled vp you may euen as well conclude that the whole Church in the world vtterly fayled as to say therefore Antichrist vtterly defaced the visible Church And if you will haue the matter tried by so darke a place your light had neede to be great But your pretiest reasons of all are yet behinde Antichrist shall be lifted vp aboue all that is called God this can not be done by any Minister in the Church seeing euery soule must bee subiect They say it will weary an old bodie to followe a Child vp and down all day that can newe goe I am sure it will weary any man to follow you Master Barrow in all your trifles God commandeth euery soule shall submit it selfe vnto the higher powers doth it here vpon follow that if a king vsurp that which belongeth to God they must therein â—â—ay him so long as he remayneth their king Also when it is sayd that he is God you say what blasphemie will not insue if this should be literally taken It may as well be inforced say you by this place that Antichrist is God as that the place where he raigneth is the Temple of God You will not haue this place expounded literally and then what shall we make of it or howe shall we finde Antichrist May he not be the Turke or some other If the Papists could proue yâ— which you speake but with some little shew how much would they glory For grant theÌ„ a mysticall sense of these words and they will carie it whither they list To exalt himselfe aboue all that is called God is literally spoken and literally fulfilled when the Pope exalteth himselfe aboue all Kinges and Emperours which are called Gods So that he shall sit as God in the Temple of God shewing himselfe that he is God What blasphemie is it which will ensue if these wordes bee all construed literally after the Grammaticall sense The wordes doo not import that he shall bee God indeede but that he shall take that to himselfe which belongeth to the most high God The thing which deceiueth you Master Barrow is in the word shewing for euery thing that a shew is made of is not so in truth There is a true shew and there is a false shew when one doth arrogate that to himselfe and bâ—ast of it which belongeth not vnto him As Antichrist vsurping not onely an earthly dignitie but euen the high power and authority of God is therefore sayd to shewe himselfe to bée God And now wheras I stand vpon this that the Church of England was a true Church of God before popery and that in popery it stood a member or part of the vniuersall visible Church fo farre as the remnants of Christs Church remained not vtterly defaced by Antichrist that the casting out of Antichrist and his lawes and vsurped power is not the beginning but the restoring and repayring or recouering a Church from miserable desolation And as Iosias and other godly kings of Iuda by terrour of punishment draue Idolaters which outwardly stood vnder the Couenant being cyrcumcised from false worship vnto the lawes of God so Quéene Elizabeth hath done with her subiects being baptized and thereby bound to renounce false worship and to imbrace the holy doctrine of the Couenant Here you say that to make my conclusion follow I must proue and make euident demonstration by Scripture that the Church of England was rightly gathered vnto and established in that holy fayth and order which Christ hath left vnto his Church in vniuersall and particular according to the rules and examples in his Testament Next that they fell not away froÌ„ this holy fayth in the time of popery and that now they continue and faythfully walke in the same fayth and order If I had done this you say I had powerfully conuinced and stopped the mouthes of all Schismatikes for euer I sée you can make your mach wisely Master Barrow I must make euident demonstration by the Scriptures of what of that which was not mentioned by the Scriptures For there is no particular mention of planting the fayth of Christ in England If wee shew it out of auncient records then doe I not saâ—ilfie your desire at all Agayne it must be shewed by the Scriptures that the Church of England receiued orderly the fayth and order of Christ not onely in generall but in euery particular This is a surer knot than the former And me thinkes you should bee a little more kinde for the honour of your countrey not that any honour is to be rendred against truth but whereas you confesse that a true Church may erre in diuers things so that it be not conuinced sinne obstinately If the planters of the fayth and discipline of Christ in England did erre it some things which yet you know not how can you tell but that they did it in simplicitie wee sée that in auncient times and of late dayes GOD hath had many Children in England which haue been begotten and nourished vp in the land and haue acknowledged her their mother And we are sure herevpon that God hath put his couenant of mercy
in England and planted a true Church And therefore if you deale rightly you must proue against vs. I haue shewed that popery did not vtterly destroy the visible Church And there be at this day multitudes that so walke in the holy fayth that no man is able to accuse them And therefore if either all or the most part of Schismatikes were not obstinate cauillers their mouthes might be stopped for euer Thus much might fuffice agaynst that you affirme our people neuer had any entrance to be vnder the couenant and so to stand the visible Church but to be as heapes of prophane heathen but that your matter reacheth further then against the assemblies in England condemning other Churches which professe the holy Gospel And least some may think that in this poynt I charge ye but by some hard collection in so horrible presumption as to condemne all Christian Churches I will recite the wordes which you haue set downe in your other booke pag. 33. where after long discourse agaynst the reasons which Master Caluine vseth both out of the olde and new Testament to proue that neither the worship it selfe nor the faythfull are defiled by the company of the open wicked you speake thus This and such like detestable stuffe hath Master Caluine in his ignorance partly to confute that damnable sect of Annabaptists which fantastically dreame vnto theÌ„selues a Church without spot in this life and for euery transgression that ariseth are ready to leaue forsake the felowship of the Church without due and orderly reproofe Partly also is this stuffe brought to defend his owne rash and disorderly proceedings at Geneua whilest hee at the first dash made no scruple to receiue all the whole state euen all the prophane ignorant people into the bosome of the Church to administer the Sacraments vnto them which confuse route could not fit with Christs heauenly gouernement neither could it by any meanes agree vnto them in this estate But that monstrous disorders and haynous enormityes dayly ensued thereof whereby this their Church became a iust reproch vnto all men euen to those wicked Heretikes yea that which is worse and more to be lamented it became a miserable president and pernitious example euen vnto all Europe to fall into the like transgression as the confused estate of all those regions where the Gospell is thus disorderly taught declareth Let the Reader here consider Master Barrow what a worthie Champion you â—re become for the Papists for Heretickes and Schismaticks agaynst all the Churches which professe the Gospell and agaynst all their teachers What was Master Caluine to bee regarded if he were so ignorant so rash and so disorderly in his doings How miserable was his case that he must be so pernitious an example to the ruine of many What is or what hath the Church of Geneua been and together with the assemblies of England all Churches in Europe but heapes of prophane multitudes no better then heathen or dogs if your words be true True Christ they haue none for they fit not his gouernment nor his gouernment them as you say But Master Barrow as the Churches and their ministers haue been able haue iustly defended themselues though not from all faults because there is no Church so pure agaynst the wisest and learnedst reuiling Rabsakaes the Hereticks and Schisinaticks so must you thinke that they shall be able to withstand two or thrée which are so ignorant in some grounds of religion as that their bookes are a bundle or rather a dunghill of absurdities Whom shal you euer perswade that hath any true light that your knowledge so farre passeth the learned of all Churches Were it not honour enough for ye to triumph ouer the ministers of the Church of England whom so often in disdayne you terme learned Priests but ye must be generall conquetors like Alexander the great Faine you would seeme to bee farre from the Annabaptists but how néere you are vnto them euen in their tents all that haue skill doo see Well then to conclude this poynt he that will finde a true Church with which he may ioyne himselfe he must not seeke it in the publike assemblies either in England Scotland Geneua or any region of Europe for by your iudgement they be all prophane heapes but he must seeke the fellowship and ioyne with the Donatists of England Now to the second part of the assumption where you say that the Church of England hath power to cast foorth none by excommunication I am of the minde that Christ hath giuen such a power to his Church and also doo take it that the Church of England is not boyd thereof But you condemne all excommunication which is not executed by an Eldership and the people of euery particular assemblie If excommunication be onely to bee so executed then how could Esra with the Elders and Princes of Israel publish an excommunication generall against euery one that should not within three dayes come vp to Ierusalem Esra 10. vers 8. And where doo you proue that excommunication is to be executed vpon any but for contumacie and contempt of the Church Doo you hold that a man which doth repent him for his adulterie these heresie or such like and is cast downe in sorrowe is yet to be deliuered vp to Satan If not why doo you vpbrayd that there is none cast foorth among vs but for contumacie In the next place you take vpon you to confute and cut downe foure false expositions as you say of Math. 18. vers 17. Tell the Church The first sort take the word Church for the Pope the second for the Archbishops and Bishops which exercise this power for the whole Church the third for the companie of the Elders apart from the people which they call the Consistorie the fourth are they which would haue the people excommunicate without the Elders The two first sorts that is the Pope and the Bishops doo depend you say vppon one line and build their preheminence vpon the promise made to the Apostle Peter Math. 16. vers 18. 19. where the keyes of the kindome of heauen are giuen him And vpon the Apostle Paul his example who deliuered Hymeneus and Alexander vnto Satan Timoth. 5. 10. You are so learned and skilfull Master Barrow yea so trustie and true that wee must holde them for Oracles that doo proceede out of your mouth although indeed they be neuer so false as shall appeare Touching the place in Mat. 16. for the keyes giuen vnto Peter it is agreed vpon by all parts that there is a power giuen to be exercised in the Church The disagréement is chiefly about this to whom it is giuen The Pope with his adherents sayth it was giuen onely vnto Peter and his successors He sayth further that Peter was Bishop of Rome that there is his chaire and that this power is annexed to that chaire and so the Pope alone is to haue it and from him all other are to participate which