Selected quad for the lemma: faith_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
faith_n	church_n	true_a	visible_a	19,269	5	9.3685	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91809	A looking glasse for the Anabaptists and the rest of the separatists: wherein they may clearly behold a brief confutation of a certain un-licensed, scandelous pamphlet, intituled, The remonstrance of the Anabaptists, by way of vindication of their separation. The impertinancies, incongruities, non-consequences, falsities, and obstinacy of William Kiffen, the author, and grand ring leader of that seduced sect is discovered and laid open to the view of every indifferent eyed reader that will not shut his eyes against the truth. With certaine queries, vindicated from Anabaptisticall glosses, together with others propounded, for the information and conviction, (if possible) the reformation of the said William Kiffen and his prosylites. / By Josiah Ricraft, a well willer to the truth. Published by authority.	Ricraft, Josiah, fl. 1645-1679.	1645 (1645)	Wing R1430; Thomason E299_9; ESTC R200250	22,283	33

in the faith a pure lump of beleivers we I hope shall joyne with you in the same Congregations and fellowshipe and nothing shall separate us but death but tel then we shall present those Scriptures as an adition to those formely quoted wherein we have sufficient testimony from you comparing them with your practice that the word and Sacraments are not purely dispensed among you 2 Thes 3 6 Eph 5 3 4.5 11 Gall 5 9 12 2 Cor 6 14 15 1 Cor 5 4 5 6 Asts 2 40. The Reply of JOSIAH RICRAFT to W. K. his Answer FOR your Answer to this my First Queare which you affirme seemes to import thus much that from such Congregations where the word and sacraments are purely dispensed men ought not to seperate but that men are and ought to seperate from such where the word and sacraments are not purely dispensed It is well you used that evasion seemes which you doe twice in one sentence yet many things seemes to be which are not And if I should take the advantadge of falling upon every passage of your discourse I might shew you how my Queare in many respects though it doth impley as in the case of our Church the unlawfulnes of all Seperation from out Congregations where the Word and Sacraments are purely dispensed yet it doth not impley that men are and ought for to seperate from such a Church where the word and Sacraments are not so purely dispensed because there are differant degrees of purity and reformation of Churches and whilest the Word and the Sacraments are dispensed according to the institution for the maine though there may not in some Axedentalls and Cercumstances and Concometents be that purenesse which ought to be and is desired Yet to seperate from such Churches hath neither ground in the Word nor the approved Iudgement of godly and learned Devines Yea further a Church may come to be so corrupted as that the Word and the Sacraments in somethings of Substance may be corrupted and yet it is not lawfull for men presently to seperate There is something else to be done before they leave such a Church for they ought to try and use all meanes and ways to sée if the Church may not be healed In this kinde I could give you many instances of the unlawfullnesse of a sudden seperation from a corrupted Church God will not have his people come out of Babylon untill they have used all meanes to heale her as is evident 51. Jeremiah verse 9. Wee would have healed Babylon but she is not healed Forsake her and let us go every one into his own Country Which shewes Babylon must not be left till first meanes habe been used for her healing And if you had read aney thing in this point you would know that as there is an unjust and an un-nessessary Seperation which is upon leight and small causes so there is a rash and unadvised seperation in forsaking a Church suddenly and willingly without wayting in the use of all meanes for Reformation but I shall spare to speake further of this and now come to speak to the maine of your discourse to this my first Queare namly to shew our Congregations are such as where the Word and Sacraments are purely dispensed and then according to your own confession you sin and are justly charged with Schism for Seperating from us All the Scriptures that are coated by you in the beginning of your discourse and the close to this Queare doe none of them in the least prove the Seperation from such a Church as ours is where there is a profession of the true Faith the most essentiall noate of a visible Church as is confessed not onely by great reformed Devines but even by some Seperatists themselves as Mr. Robinson and we have also the Word of God powerfully preached professed and maintained and the right administration of the two Sacraments As for your Scriptures they onely prove a lawfull Seperation from Heathen Idolators and Blaspheming Jewes and Antichristian Idolators Familiar and volentary unnecessary private society with wicked men or the casting out of evill men by those that have the power in the Church And if you look over the Scriptures again and God give you grace to consider you will finde all this to be true as for those grounds by which you would prove that the Sacraments are not purely dispensed amongst us and so you may lowfully Seperate from us namely in regard that wicked persons are admitted and suffered amongst us to come to the Lords Table and that Children are Baptized amongst us I answer these are noe grounds and I dare challenge you and all the Anabaptists in England of your way to bring any Scripture wherein you have any precept or example to Seperate from a Church for some wicked persons mingled with good or because Baptisme is administred to Infants Is any man so ignorant as to deny the Church of Corinth to be a true Church Yet I say there was wanting Discipline and more horible abuses of the Sacraments and many vicious persons uncast out 1. Cor. 5.1 2. 1. Cor. 11.17 18 19 20 21 22.30 also 1. Cor. 15.12 with the 2. Cor. 12.20 21. Yet Paul writes to them as a true Church Many such instances I could give you as also that of the Israellites where there wanted Discipline and the Ordinances most grossely abused yet we account of them to have béene a true Church 1. Sam. 2.16 17.22.29 And in this case the Apostle Paul speaks of many loose and uncleane persons and yet in many of his Epistles though he blames the not casting out of such yet he blames not those that continued in the Church with such and in all his Exhortations about purging out the old Leaven putting away the wicked persons from among them never exhorts private persons in case his Apostallicall commands were not obeyed that then they should Seperate and in particular he gives not any directions to the house of Cloe to Seperate from the Church although they had made their addresse to the Apostle 1. Cor. 1.11 And for our Baptizing of Children which in scorn you call one of the great Sacraments amongst us Know we have ground in the Scripture for our practises therein and do not go into the durty pudle of mens Inventions as you say but from the Covenant made to beléevers Gen. 17.7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. with Acts 7.8 and Rom. 4.11 also Levit. 12.3 with Luke 2.21 and 1. Cor. 12.13 likewise Gal. 3.26.27.28.29 Baptisme it succéeds Cercumcision Coll. 2.11.12 〈◊〉 it did not the condition of Christian Infants in this time of the Gospel were worse then the condition of Iewish Infants under the Lu●● First in regard of their age if Baptisme may not be conferred upon them now as Circumcision was upon the Iewish Children Secondly if Baptisme belongs not to Infants then the Grace and Favour of GOD by Iesus Christ his coming is more obscure strait

were marvelous silly when they were received members amongst you and it should seeme they have received by your owne words little eddification in their so long membership with you and therefore it doth behove them whom you say are so silly to look also where to be better instructed who have received so little benefit in so long time by your ministers least they perish in their owne ignorance and blindnes and therefore herein you would doe-well to take our saviours advice Math 7 3 4 5. we know it is noe strange thing for those that desire to walk in the strait wayes of the Lord to heare themselves despised and reproched with these and far greater aspersians but however that such as are so esteemed of by you have a right to be received into the fellowship of the Saints these Scriptures prove which I pray you examine P●o 9 1 to 7. Isa 14 32 and 18 7 1 Cor 1 26 27 28. Rom 14 1. The Reply FOr your Answer to this my fourth Querie in stead of positive laying downe your Ground What warrant you have to admit filly seduced servants or children or people into your Congregations Which question implyes in it thus much What ground you have to take away them that by the laws of God and Nature are not in their owne powers but under the powers of others In this you answer nothing but wholly wave it and runne according to your former method into a tedious heterogeneall discourse of a people whom God out of his infinite love hath redéemed to himselfe And here you quote severall places of Scripture all which are meant of the invisible Church of Christ and belong not to the question of Congregations This is commonly your error and the error of all in your separated way to apply that to the visible Church which is spoken of an invisible Church and so it is nothing to the purpose And whereas after this long and impertinent answer you gather from it that if wee can prove our selves to be such Congregations as are before spoken of which by way of reply I tell you that you cannot prove your Congregations to be such they being invisible and so knowne only to God The foundation of God standeth sure having this seale 2 Timoth 2.19 for of such you speake of in your discourse In the former part of your answer to this my fourth Querie namely a people out of infinite love redéemed and if you could prove your selves to be such reall Saints and not hypocrites yet I must tell you that the people of God have no warrant to leave the Church to which they are or were joined where there is a profession of the true faith and the preaching of the word to goe joine themselves to a company of people though they should be true Saints because there goes more to the making of a visible Church then that there bee many Saints gathered together And besides there may bee many such Saints you speake of that have put off the old man and put on the new man and are Kings and Priests to God which yet may neither have office nor gifts of preaching and so such Christians shall sinne against God and their owne soules many waies as forsake visible Churches to joine with such Saints only And in this sense I professe to despise such gathering of Saints together as to forsake a visible Church where there are Word and Sacraments to goe to joine with them they wanting the publike Ordinances and the due managing of them by persons fitly qualified and orderly called according to the Scriptures to that end and purpose QUERIE V. HOw can you vindicate by the word of God your Anabaptisticall way from the sinfull guilt of notorious Schisme and defection from all the Reformed Churches Kiff Ans They that runn may read what fire this pen and heart was inflamed withall in the writing and inditing this Querie but first of all that by reformed Churches you meane those Churches planted by the Apostles in the Primitive time which are the platforme for all Churches in all ages to looke unto to be guided by those apostolicall rules left them we then shall vindicate by the word of GOD our Anabaptists way as you are pleased to call it from that guilt and first although we confesse our selves ignorant of many things which we ought to know and desire to waight daily for the farther ciscoveries of light and truth from him which is the only giver of it to his Poore people yet so far as we are come we desire to walke by the same rule they did and first of all we baptize none into Christ Iesus but such as professe faith in Christ Iesus Rom 6 3 by which faith they are made So●ns of God and so having put on Christ are baptized into Christ G●l 3 26 27 and that Christ hath commanded this and no other way of b●p●izme see Mat 28 19. Mark 1 4 5. Luk 3 7 8. and that this also was the practice of the Apostles see Acts 2.41 8 12 36 37 10 47 48. and that being thus bap●ized upon profession of faith they then are added to the Church Acts 2 41. and being added to the Church we conceive ourselves bound to watch over one another in case of sin to dease faithfully one with another according to these Scriptures Lev. 19 17 1● Mat● 18 1● and that they remaine obstina● to cast them out as 〈◊〉 that are not fit to live in the Church according to the rule 1 Cor 5 4 5. Math 18 19 20 by all which and mony other perticulars I might ●am it apears that through mercy we can free our selves from th●● gu●l● and truly if your eyes were turned to peruse your own practises wayes you would then see we could better free our selves from that gu●le of ●ch●sme from those reformed Churches then you your selves from ●he notorious guile of schisming from Rome for first you hould their baptisme true their ordination of ministers true their maintenance by tithes and offerings true there people all fi● ma●ter for a church so true and yet you will seperate from them for some corruption now for you par●s we deny all and every one of these amongst you to be true and therefore doe seperate from you so then when you have made sati●faction for your notorious schisme and returne as dutifull sons to their Mother or else have cast off all her filthy Rubies of her abominations which are amongst you we will returne to you or shew our best grounds to the contrary Yet I would not be understood as to suppresse that none of the people in your Assemblies of England to be fit matter for a Church of Christ in respect of the graces and qualifications of the Spirit which we see to be in many But I speake of all the multitude which are forced in amongst you to be members with you though they never manifest Faith so that by this