amongst them And this libertie he did use and might have used to this day without any disturbance to his Civill or Church-Peace save onely in a way of brotherly disquisition but it was his Doctrines and Practises which tended to the Civill disturbance of the Common-wealth together with his heady and busie pursuite of the same even to the rejection of all Churches here These they were that made him unfit for enjoying Communion either in the one state or in the other When he reckoneth me and me onely by name as one of the most incensed against him I reckon it as one of his usuall exorbitant Hyperboles unlesse by Incensed he meane one that with some others were most kindled and stirred up to endeavour his satisfaction And then his terme Incensed though it be not an Hyperbole yet it is an Acurology Neither doe I remember that he hath any cause to say that I gave him a Testimony of godlinesse For his godlinesse I leave it to him who is the searcher of hearts I neither attested it nor denied it Every brother in the Church though he may be called a brother in Christ as Christ is the Head of the visible Church and being cast out of the Church though he may be admonished as a Brother and so have some reference still to Christ yet godlinesse requiteth a Participation of the Divine Nature I speake in Peters sence 2 Pet. 1.4 by the power of the Spirit of Grace conforming us to fellowship with Christ and his Churches the which things have not so evidently appeared to me I speak it with griefe either in his spirit or in his way these many yeares And yet I deny not others may discerne more Power of Godlinesse in him then I doe and may speake of him accordingly But it was no uncharitable speech of Paul to tell the Galatians and that before all the Churches that he stood in feare of them Gal. 4.10 The life of faith from whence springeth both the truth and the Power of Godlinesse is very repugnant to Self-fulnesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Faith emptieth a man of self-confidence and maketh him apt to acknowledge with Agur Truely I am more foolish then any man Prov. 30.2 But the Lord help us to tremble before him If he leave us though but a while to our selves we can soone learne to reigne as Kings like the Corinthians without Church-Officers or the Ordinances of Christ 1 Cor. 4.8 TO CHAP. XII HIs 12th Chapter is taken up in Examining and Answering a speech of mine That godly persons are not so enthralled to Antichrist as to separate from Christ Else they could not be godly persons His Answer is That this cometh not neere the Question which is not concernign personall godlinesse or Grace in Christ but the godlinesse or Christianitie of worship Whereupon he distinguisheth of Christ as considered two waies 1. Personally as God-man c. 2. As Head of his Church In the former sence he acknowledgeth they cannot be so enthralled to Antichrist as to be separate from Christ in the latter they may Reply This distinction of Christ is inconveniently expressed as was the like once before For the membra dividentia the parts of the division are coincident Christ as God-man is the Head of the visible Church But his meaning I apprehend and accept Christ God-man is Head both of the invisible Church and of the visible As he is Head of the invisible Church so he is received by faith As he is head of the visible so he is received by profession of the true faith both of the grace of faith and of the Doctrine of faith The proper fruit whereof is holy worship and professed subjection to the Rule of the Gospel Now for his application of his Distinction in the generall I doe approve it and doe willingly acknowledge that a godly person may be through ignorance or negligence so farre enthralled to Antichrist as to be separate from Christ taking Christ as Head of the visible Church For he may fall into such fundamentall Antichristian corruption in Doctrine or Worship or Government as either may justly prevent his admission into the Church or being in the Church and yet through pang of Temptation continuing obstinate in his corruption after conviction he may justly be excommunicate out of the Church But lest I may seeme to hover and so to vanish in Generalities whilest I onely speake of Antichristian corruptions in generall I shall willingly Instance in some Particulars which may give light to others of like nature It is an Antichristian corruption in Doctrine to accept any Propitiatory Sacrifices for our reconciliation but the death of Christ only It is a like corruption to look for Justification from sinne in the sight of God by our own works It is an Antichristian corruption in worship to worship Angels or Saints or Images It is an Antichristian corruption in Government to take the Pope to be the Head of the Church and such an Head as hath Power to make Laws to binde the Conscience to authorize Scripture to be Canonicall to adde other Books to Scripture with like Authoritie to be himselfe the onely Authenticall Interpreter of Scripture and Judge of Controversies These and the like corruptions are such as make Antichrist a Sonne of Perdition and them that are led by him to fall into like Perdition with him Of one of these Points Paul saith They that hold it hold not the Head Col. 2.18 19. Of another of these Paul saith They that hold it are abolished from Christ Gal. 5.4 The like wee may say of all the rest Yet in times of former darknesse some of the faithfull members of Christ might and were for a time entangled with a yoke of Bondage in some or most or all of these Particulars out of which the Lord at length rescued them by variety of Temptations and by some breaking forth of light in the mouths of some of his witnesses in every age But whilest any of them walked in these or like corruptions they might justly be debarred from admission into Church-fellowship or standing fast in them after conviction they might justly be cast forth out of Church-fellowship But there be other corruptions and Antichristian corruptions too which because they doe not subvert the Foundation neither of faith nor of Church-order I would not say that they separate from Christ no not as he is the Head of the visible Church For then if some whole Church were leavened with them they might soone cease to be a Church But we see the contrary in Scripture the High Places were tolerated in Judah and yet Judah ceased not to be a Church And by like proportion some more high and eminent Power may be given by some Churches to their Officers according to an Antichristian Patterne in some measure and yet they not cease to be a Church David and all the Congregation of Israel might bring up the Arke of God in a Cart after the manner of the
yeild obedience to such Doctrines and worships as are by men Invented and Appointed As the three famous Jewes were cast into the fiery Furnace in a non-conformity to the whole conforming world before the Golden Image Dan. 3.21 c. Defender Thus a man may find a knot in a Bulrush yea thus a man that were disposed might find fault with the Comforts of God for not being full and Compleate with the Affirmative Comforts because they doe not expresse the Negative and with the Negative because they doe not expresse the Affirmative He that maketh it persecution for cause of Conscience when a man is punished for professing such Doctrine which he beleiveth in Conscience to be the truth he maketh it a Pari Persecution for cause of Conscience when a man is punished for Renouncing such Doctrines which he beleiveth in Conscience to be Erroneous And he that maketh it Persecution for cause of Conscience when a man is punished for practising such a worke which he beleives in conscience to be a Religious duty He maketh it no lesse Persecution for cause of Conscience when a man is punished for not practising such a worke which he beleiveth in Conscience to be a sin CHAP. 4. A Reply to his fourth Chapter touching the distinction of Doctrines Some fundamentall others circumstantiall and lesse Principall IN points of Doctrine I said in my Answer to the Prisoners Letter some are Fundamentall without right beleife whereof a man cannot be saved others are circumstantiall and lesse Principall wherein one man may differ from another in judgement without prejudice of salvation on either part Discusser To this distinction He saith Truth dare not subscribe for then thousands ten thousands should everlastingly be condemned yea the whole Generation of the Righteous who since the falling away have and doe erre fundamently concerning the true matter Constitution Gathering Governing of the Church And yet farre be it from any pious Breast to Imagine that they are not saved c. Defender Fundamentall Doctrines are of two sorts Some hold forth the foundation of Christian Religion as the Doctrines of salvation by Christ and of faith in his Name Repentance from dead workes Resurrection from the dead and the like Others concerne the Foundation of the Church as the matter and forme of it and the proper Adjuncts accompaning the same The Apostle speaketh of both these sorts of Foundations together Heb. 6.1.2 I speake of the former sort of these onely namely the Foundation or fundamentall points of Christian Religion which who so subverteth and Renounceth he renounceth also his owne salvation The other sort I looke at as lesse principall in comparison of these though some of them have a fundamentall vse in Church order It was pertinent to the Question propounded in the Prisoners Letter to expresse how farre I allowed Toleration even in such fundamentall Errors as subverted the Foundation of Christian Religion And in other Errors lesse dangerous such as neither subverted Religion nor Salvation It would easily be conceived that Toleration might more easily be allowed How farre New English Churches partake with the Old English Parish Churches in any of the Ordinances of God and upon what ground hath been declared in the Reply to the Answer of the other Letter Where also it hath been cleared how farre off the Churches here have been from persecuting or oppressing any of their Brethren for presenting light to them about this point which may prevent and still the lamentation of peace in the beginning of this fith Chapter CHAP. 5. A Reply to his fifth Chapter Concerning a distinction of Points of Practise IN Answer to the Prisoners Letter I said in points of Practise some concerne the weightier Duties of the Law as what God we worship and with what kinde of Worship whether it be such as if it be right Fellowship with God is held If false Fellowship with God is lost Discusser It is worth the Inquiry what kinde of worship he intendeth whether in generall acceptation the Rightnesse or Corruptnesse of the Church or the Ministery of the Church or the Ministrations of the Word Prayer Seales c. And because it pleaseth the Spirit of God to make the Ministery one of the foundations of Christian Religion Heb. 6.1.2 and also to make the Ministery of the Word and Prayer in the Church to be two speciall workes even of the Apostles themselves Acts 6.2 I shall desire it may well be considered in the feare of God 1. Concerning the Ministery of the Word If their new Ministery and ordination be true then the former was false And if false then will it not follow according to this distinction that fellowship with God was lost 2. Concerning Prayer the New English Ministers have disclaimed and written against that Worship of God by Common or set formes of Prayer which yet themselves practised in England And though they were faithfully admonished for vseing the Common Prayer yet at that time they satisfied their hearts with the practise of the Author of the Councell of Trent c. But now I aske whether or no fellowship with God in such Prayers was lost c. 3. Gods People may live and die in such kinde of worship notwithstanding light presented to them able to convince yet not reaching to a conviction and to forsakeing of such wayes which is Contrary to his Conclusion That Fundamentalls are so cleare that a man cannot but be convinced in Conscience after once or twice Admonition And therefore such a person not being convinced he is condemned of himselfe and may be persecuted for sinning against his Conscience 4. I Observe here that Mr. Cotton herein measureth to others that which himselfe when he lived in such practises would not have had measured to himselfe As 1. That it might have been affirmed of him that in such practises he did sin against his Conscience having sufficient light shinning about him 2. That he should or might have been cut off by death or Banishment as an Hereticke sinning against his Conscience c. Defender 1. It needs no inquiry what worship I meanes whether Church and Minister or Ministrations of the Word Prayer Seales c. For I meane none of these as they are dispenced in the Churches of England Though there have been corruptions in the order and dispensations of these things amongst them especially in the times when we lived there yet neither their Churches nor Ministry nor Ministrations were such or so false that fellowship with God could not be held of them not onely inwardly and secretly but also outwardly and visibly not onely in inward conversion and conviction but also in outward and visible Reformation according to light received Take my words as I wrote them and as he relateth them and my meaning is plaine enough I speake of such worship which if false fellowship with God is lost which cannot truly be avouched of any part of the Worship of God in England It is not truly said
to become Church-members yet Ahab though King over an Apostate Church having gotten Pagan Benhadad by conquest under his Dominion because he put him not to death for his blasphemy forfeited his owne life for his 1 Kings 20.23 with 42. CHAP. 36 A Reply to his Chapter 36. Discussing the Text in Luke 9.54 55. Discusser THe next Scripture brought by the Letter against such Persecution is Luke 9.54 55. where the Lord Jesus reproved his Disciples who would have fire come downe from Heaven to have devoured those Samaritans that would not receive him in these words You know not of what spirit you are the Sonne of man is not come to destroy mens lives but to save them With this Scripture Mr. Cotton joyneth the next and answereth both in one which is this 2 Tim. 2.24 The servant of the Lord must not strive but must be gentle towards all men proving if at any time God will give them Repentance c. unto both these Scriptures he giveth this Answer Both these are directions to Ministers of the Gospel how to deale not with obstinate offenders in the Church but either with men without as the Samaritans were and many unconverted Christians in Creete whom Titus as an Evangelist was to seeke to convert Or at best with some Jewes or Gentiles in the Church who though carnall yet were not convinced of the Errours of their way And it is true it became not the Spirit of the Gospel to convert Aliens to the Faith Such as the Samaritans were by Fire and Brimstone nor to deale harshly in publick Ministry or private conference with all such severall-minded men as either had not yet entred into Church-fellowship or if they had did hitherto sinne of Ignorance not against Conscience But neither of both these Texts doe hinder a Minister of the Gospel to proceed in a Church way against Church-members when they become scandalous either in life or Doctrine much lesse doe they speake at all to the Civill Magistrate Defender The matter of this Answer it is likely enough was given by me for it suiteth with mine owne apprehensions both then and now But some expressions in laying it downe I doe not owne nor can I finde any Copie under my owne hand-writing that might testifie how I did expresse my selfe especially in a word or two wherein the Discusser observeth in chap. 38. some haste and light and sleepy attention But if the Discusser can shew the same under mine owne hand as it is not impossible I shall be willing by Gods help both to acknowledge it and my haste in it CHAP. 37. A Reply to his Chap. 37. Discusser THis perplexed and ravelled Answer wherein so many things and so doubtfull are wrapped up and entangled together I shall take in pieces 1. That the Lord Jesus in rebuking his Disciples rash and bloudy zeale against the Samaritans did not hereby hinder the Ministers of the Gospel to proceed in a Church-way against scandalous offenders is not here questioned Defender Well then this Point is none of those many doubtfull things here wrapped much lesse is it perplexed or ravelled but a plaine and confessed Truth But whether the Author of that Letter sent to me did take it for a certaine and unquestioned Truth I did not know nor doe I yet know unlesse the Discusser speake his mind herein as well as his owne Sure I am Prosecution in a Church-way if the cause be not just is as odious and dreadfull a Persecution as Prosecution in a Court of civill Justice as hath been proved above Discusser Secondly when the Answerer saith much lesse doth this Text speake at all to the civill Magistrate here I observe that he implyeth that beside the censure of the Lord Jesus in the hands of his spirituall Governours for any spirituall evill in Life or Doctrine the civill Magistrate is also to inflict corporall punishment Defender This observation I may truly say is ravelled out of my Answer and that so perplexedly that it cannot be wound up out of my Answer without breaking the threed both of my words and meaning It is a plaine and certaine Truth that as the Disciples were not civill Magistrates so neither doth Christ speake to them in this Reproofe as to such But it is farre from me to say that it is lawfull for civill Magistrates to inflict corporall punishment upon men contrary minded standing in the same state the Samaritans did No such thought arose in my heart nor fell from my pen either in my Answer to the Letter or in any writing of mine that it is lawfull for a Civill Magistrate though he had dominion over Pagans much lesse if he have none to inflict corporall punishments upon such as are contrary minded in matters of Religion No these are ravellings of a loose and ungirt disputer not the Inferences of a serious and solid Discusser And therefore the Reasons which he bringeth in the Sequele of this chapter that the Magistrates should not lay violent hands upon any such as the Samaritanes for not receiving of the Lord Jesus might well have been spared for they fight not against me but against a shadow of his owne fancy But when he maketh the Fire that fell downe from Heaven Rev. 13.13 to be the fiery Judgements and persecutions which the second Beast perswaded the civill Powers to destroy the Saints withall as if they were Gods just Judgements from Heaven upon Hereticks This is such an Interpretation as ravelleth the Text and will not stand with the Context For the Text speaketh of it as a great wonder that the Beast should make Fire to come downe from Heaven upon Earth in the sight of men ver 13. But this was no wonder to cause civill Powers to inflict fiery Judgements of Imprisonment Banishment Death upon Hereticks for Constantine had done as much before And the Arrian Bishops had caused Constantius to doe as much against the Orthodox Saints Besides in the Context ver 15. It is expressely there declared as a distinct matter from the former that he had Power to cause that as many as would not worship the Image of the Beast should he killed This is a different effect and recorded as different from the former of causing fire to come downe from Heaven and that not upon the Saints but upon Earth CHAP. 38. A Reply to his Chap. 38. Discussing the place in Timothy 2 Tim. 2.25 26. Discusser I Acknowledge this Instruction to be meeke and patient to all men c. is properly an Instruction to the Ministers of the Gospel Defender Then hitherto the Answer is not perplexed and ravelled Discusser Yet divers Arguments will from hence be truly and fairely collected to manifest and evince how farre the civill Magistrate ought to be from dealing with the civill Sword in spirituall cases But first by the way I desire to aske what the Answerer meaneth by his unconverted Christian in Creete An unconverted Christian is as much as an unconverted Convert untamed
Prophets and seducing Teachers doe bring downe showers of Gods blessings upon the civill State 1 Kings 18.40 41. Fifthly it is an honour to Gods Justice that such Judgements are executed Rev. 16.5 6 7. Discusser But such Executions in Queen Elizabeths dayes had raysed almost all Europe in combustion the warres of 88. the Spanish Invasion had speciall respect to this And had not the Lord borne witnesse to his owne Law and to his people herein by defeating the Intendments of their Enemies it might have been the ruine both of England and the Netherlands which are the words of Mr. Cotton himselfe on the third Viall Defender The words Answer for themselves The Devill and his Instruments raged against such Lawes and such Executions but God bare witnesse to both by mightily defeating the Invasions and Conspiracies of Enemies Discusser It is no Argument that God bare witnesse to his people in such Deliverancies and Victories For 1. Events and Successes come alike to all and are no Arguments of Love or Hatred Defender Events and successes are indeed no Arguments of a mans spirituall Estate of the Love or hatred of God to a mans person in which sense Solomon speaketh Eccles 9.1 2. But otherwise they are ordinary witnesses good Events of a good cause if it be well handled ill events of an ill cause or at least of the ill handling of a good cause Psal 1.3 4. Jer. 22.15 16 17. Discusser Secondly Papists in their warres have ever yet had both in Peace and warre victory and Dominion And therefore if successe be the measure God hath borne witnesse to them as in the Warres between Charles the fift and some Germane Princes where the successe was various between Philip of Spaine and the Low-Countries the King of France and his Protestant Subjects sometimes winning sometimes loosing But most memorable is the History of the Waldenses who fought many Battles against three succeeding Popes with various successe But the finall successe and Victory fell to the Popedome and Romish Church in the utter extirpation of those Waldensian witnesses Defender Reply 1. I will not inquire of the meaning of the words how the Papists in their warres have had both in Peace and Warre Victory and Dominion But this I cannot excuse from contradiction that the Papists in their Warres ever had the Victory and yet have often fought with various successe sometime winning sometime loosing Nor can I tell how it standeth with Truth that Papists in their Warres ever had the Victory since Queen Elizabeth ever had the Victory over them Reply 2. Though Papists have fought with various Successe it is Gods manner to nurture his people with some crosses that they might at length learne to fight not in their owne strength but in the Lords Reply 3. The story is evident that the Waldenses never lost Battell but when they complyed with the Papists and trusted more in their false pretences then in the Lord. Neither is it true that the finall successe ef the Victory fell to the Romish Church to the utter extirpation of those Waldensian witnesses For it never came to an utter Extirpation of them but only to a dispersion into sundry Countries of Europe as Bishop Vsher sheweth in the last words of his Booke De successione Christianarum Ecclesiarum But dispersion is one thing utter exterpation is anoother Seed is dispersed and the more multiplyed but exterpation tendeth to withering and destruction Certaine it is the Waldenses long after those warres and that dispersion wrote Letters to Luther and Calvin which are extant to this day Discusser It is most true what Daniel in his 8.11 and 12. Chapters and John Rev. 11 12 and 13. Chapters write of the great successe of Antichrist against Christ Jesus for a time appointed Defender Not against Christ Jesus for who ever warred against him and prevailed Job 9.4 But true it is against his servants Antichrist prevailed for a time appointed but it was when either the Saints suffered for the Truth and then the Saints were the true Conquerours or else when they complyed with the corruptions of the times and then though their cause was good yet they handled it ill Discusser Gods servants are all Conquerours when they warre with Gods weapons in Gods cause and worship as in Rev. 2. and 3. Chapters and in Rev. 12. they overcome the Dragon in the Romane Emperours by three weapons the bloud of the Lamb the word of their Testimony and not loving their lives unto the death Defender It is true those are the weapons of the Ministers of the Gospel and those are also the weapons of private Christians but if the Magistrate be the Minister of God in bearing his sword then the Sword also is a weapon of God which when it is drawne out in Gods cause and worship according to God with confidence not in the arme of flesh but in the Lord of Hosts it goeth forth Conquering to conquer Rev. 17.14 with Rev. 19.14.19 20. Gideons Sword was the Sword of the Lord Judg. 7.20 CHAP. 65. A Reply to his Chap. 68. Discussing the Testimonies alledged from Ancient and later writers and first that of Hilary Discusser THe last Head of Arguments produced by the Author against persecution was from the Judgement of Antient and later Writers to some of which the Answerer pleaseth to answer Defender Some of which as if any of them were omitted or as if all of them were not answered compare the Prisoners Letter and my Answer together and see if I have balked any one of them Discusser If it be a marke of the Christian Church to be persecuted and of the Antichristian or false Church to persecute then the Churches cannot be truly Christian according to the first Institution which either actually themselves or by the civill Power of Kings and Princes given to them or procured by them to fight for them doe persecute such as discent from them or be opposite against them Defender I say againe if persecution be properly taken for the punishment of the Innocent for Truth or Righteousnesse sake it ought not to be found in a Christian Church but is usually found in a false and Antichristian Church but I cannot as the Discusser doth make it a marke of the Christian Church to be persecuted and a marke of a false Church to persecute For a Marke is such a signe as belongeth omni soli semper as a marke of the Church must agree to every Church and at all times to the Church and onely to the Church But to be persecuted is not found in every true Church at least not at all times For after the conversion of Paul unto the Faith of Christ the Churches had rest throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria Acts 9.31 shall we say they were then no true Christian Churches because they wanted this marke of the Church to be persecuted Againe wee read that after the destruction of Antichrist the Churches of the Saints shall have rest
to the soules and Consciences of men Secondly that the Church of Christ doth not use the Arme of secular power to compell men to the true profession of the Truth For this is to be done with spirituall weapons whereby Christians are to be exhorted and compelled But this saith he hindereth not That Christians sinning against the Light of Faith and Conscience may justly be censured of the Church by Excommunication and of the civill Magistrate also in case they shall corrupt others to the perdition of their soules This Joynt-confession of the Answerer with Luther to wit that the Government of the civill Magistrate extendeth no further then over the bodyes and goods of their Subjects not over their soules who seeth not that hereby is given a cleare Testimony that either the spirituall and Church Estate the preaching of the word Baptisme Ministery Government thereof belongeth to the civill body of the Common-wealth that is to the bodies and goods of men which seemeth monstrous to Imagine or else that the civill Magistrate cannot without exceeding the bounds of his Office meddle with those spirituall Affaires Defender A man that is willing to open his eyes may easily see that though the Government of the civill Magistrate doe extend no further then over the bodies and goods of his Subjects yet he may and ought to improve that power over their bodies and goods to the good of their soules yea and by promoting the good of their soules he may much advance the good of their outward man also The bodies and goods and outward Estates of men may expect a blessing when their soules prosper Though God may keep his Saints low in outward Estate that grow fastest in Godlinesse yet sure Godlinesse hath the Promises of this life and of a better 1 Tim. 4.8 And such as first seeke the Kingdome of God may expect all these outward things to be cast in upon them If it seeme a monstrous thing in the eyes of the Discusser to imagine that the good Estate of the Church and the well-ordering of the Ordinances of God therein should concerne the civill good of the Common-wealth it may well seeme monstrous to him to imagine that the flourishing of Religion is the flourishing of the civill State and the decay of Religion is the decay and ruine of the civill State But such Virgine soules as follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth Rev. 14.4 would be loath to goe to live in such a Common-wealth to whom it should seeme monstrous that the things of God should belong to them And therefore the Magistrate need not to feare that he should exceed the bounds of his Office if he should meddle with the spirituall affaires of the Church in Gods way It is true if he shall meddle with the execution of a Ministers Office as Vzziah did or if he shall set up humane Inventions in Doctrine Worship Government in stead of Christs Institutions as David brought the Arke of God upon Oxen instead of the shoulders of the Levites Or if he shall thrust in Jeroboams Priests upon the Church and cast out faithfull Ministers or if he shall make Lawes to bind Conscience in all these or any such Like he exceedeth the bounds of his Office But if he shall diligently seeke after the Lord and read in the word of the Lord all the dayes of his life Deut. 17.19 that he may both live as a Christian and rule as a Christian if he shall seeke to establish and advance the Kingdome of Christ more then his owne If he shall incourage the good in a Christian course and discourage such as have evill will to Sion and punish none for matter of Religion but such as subvert the Principles of saving Truth which no good Christian much lesse good Magistrate can be ignorant of or at least such as disturbe the Order of the Gospel in a turbulent way verily the Lord will build up and establish the House and Kingdome of such Princes as doe thus build up his Discusser Againe necessarily it must follow that these two are contradictory to themselves which yet both of them are Mr. Cottons Positions the Magistrates Power extends no further then to the bodyes and goods of the Subject and yet The Magistrate must punish Christians for sinning against the Light of Faith and Conscience and for corrupting the soules of men Defender If the Christian Faith and a good Conscience be a part and a great part a chiefe part of the good of Christians then these two are so farre from contradicting one another that they establish one another For if a Magistrates power extend to the preserving of the Goods of the Subject and to the punishment of the Impeachers or purloyners thereof then he falleth short of his duty if he suffer their Faith and good Conscience to be corrupted or dispoyled without revenge Againe this I say further which also will easily avoyde appearance of Contradiction suppose by Goods were meant onely outward Goods and that the Magistrates power extended no further then the bodies and goods of the Subjects yet though he have no power over Faith and Conscience he hath neverthelesse lawfull power to punish such evill doers in their Bodies and goods as doe seduce his people to make shipwrack of Faith and a good Conscience For in seeking Gods Kingdome and Righteousnesse men prosper in their outward Estates Matth. 6.33 otherwayes they decay Besides I doe not remember that this Proposition is any of mine which yet the Discusser fastneth upon me that the Magistrates power extendeth no further then the bodies and Goods of his Subjects I doe not deny the Truth of it rightly understood but it seemeth to me somewhat too loose and confused for me to owne it as mine own For the Magistrates power may be said to extend no further then the bodyes and Goods of his Subjects either as the Subject of his power or as the end of his power If Goods be meant outward Goods and the Magistrates power be said to extend no further then to the body and Goods of his Subjects as to the Object of his power the Position is true But if it be meant of the end of his power as if a Magistrates power reached no further then to the preservation of their bodyes and outward Goods it is false For the Adequate end of the Magistrates power is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 benè administrare Rempublicam well to governe the Common-wealth Now can it be well with a Common-wealth that liveth in bodily health and worldly wealth but yet without Church without Christ without God in the world But though God for a time may preserve a civill State in health and wealth through his Patience and bounty especially till meanes of Grace be offered to them yet after meanes of Grace be offered they cannot long expect bodily health or wealth to be continued to them if they neglect or despise or depart from so great salvation Witnesse the Romane Empire which though it
me to despise his afflicted condition but the truest mercifull cordiall to his afflicted estate would be to perswade him that he is out of his way and still blesseth himselfe though God both crosse his estate and blast his spirit in such a way As for my being at ease as he calleth it had he been a little longer acquainted with the faithfull discharge of a Ministers office he would not judge it such a state of ease If I durst allow my selfe to seeke and take mine ease I should sooner choose a private solitary condition in his Wildernesse then all the throng of employment in this numerous society TO CHAP. VIII IN his 8th Chapter Mr. Williams rehearseth and examineth those words of my Letter wherein to helpe him to a serious sight of his sinne I said that it pleased the Lord Jesus to fight against his corrupt wayes with the sword of his mouth in the mouths and testimonies of the Churches and Brethren Against whom when Mr. Williams over-heated himselfe in reasoning and disputing against the light of his Truth it pleased the Lord to stop his mouth by a sodaine disease and to threaten to take his breath from him But he in stead of recoyling as even Balaam offered to doe in the like case chose rather to persist in his way and to protest against all the Churches and Brethren that stood in his way c. In these lines the Examiner telleth us an humble and discerning Spirit may espie first a glorious justification and boasting of my selfe and others concurring with me secondly an unrighteous and uncharitable Censure of the afflicted Reply Whether is it a more glorious boasting to challenge to a mans selfe an humble and discerning Spirit as the Examiner doth here and elsewhere in this Treatise or to ascribe the glory to Christ in fighting with the sword of his mouth in the testimonies and labours of the Churches and Brethren against his corrupt wayes Surely when our glorying is not in our selves but in the Lord Jesus we are allowed so to doe by the Holy Ghost Isa 45.25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified and shall glory Object But is it not a glorious boasting of our selves when as wee make the sword in our mouths and testimonies to be the sword of the mouth of Christ when as the holy Scripture putteth the sword of Christ in the mouths of such witnesses as himselfe and some others who in meeknesse and patience testifie the truth of Jesus against Antichrist and against all false Callings of Ministers And whether is Mr. Cotton swimming with the streame of outward credit and profit and smiting with the fist and sword of Persecution or himselfe and such other the witnesses of Christ most like unto Balaam Reply 1. The quicknesse of the Examiners wit over-runneth his judgement for I did not compare him to Balaam as like much lesse as most like but as unlike For that which Balaam would have done I said he would not doe 2. Let the light of the holy word of God discover and judge whether the sword of the mouth of the Lord Jesus be found in his mouth and his fellowes or in the mouths of the Churches and Brethren here and let the tryall be upon this very Point whether witnesseth for Christ or for Antichrist 1. We witnesse that Christ was never so farre overthrowne and overcome by Antichrist but that still the Lord Jesus hath preserved a Congregationall Church one or more especially since the Reformation of Religion by the Ministery of Luther and Calvin and other Ministers of Christ in the dayes of our Fathers The Examiner witnesseth that since the Apostasie of Antichrist Antichrist hath so farre prevailed against Christ and his Kingdome that he hath no Church nor Church-Officers left upon the face of the earth to this day 2. Wee witnesse the godly persons visible Saints confessing their knowne sinnes and professing their faith are fit materialls for Church-fellowship The Examiner witnesseth that the Churches which consist of such visible Saints are nullities unlesse they discerne every spot and pollution of Antichrist and forsake it for Instance unlesse they see the Antichristian pollution of the Ministery in England and doe refuse to heare the word from it 3. We witnesse that Persons qualified with a convenient measure of spirituall gifts fit to lead Gods people and chosen and elected by a Congregation of visible Saints and ordained and set apart unto the worke of the Ministery have received a lawfull calling from Christ to that office The Examiner witnesseth against this as a false Calling upon what pretence himselfe better knowes then I. 4. We witnesse that it is lawfull for the King of England to give a Patent to a certain number of his Subjects to transplant themselves out of England into America and to possesse such Lands as the Providence of God layeth open before them between such and such Degrees of the Horizon Provided that his Subjects adventure not upon such acts as the Patent never intended as to murther the Natives or to dispossesse them by violence or fraud of their lawfull Possessions but either to plant themselves in a vacuum Domicilium or if they sit downe upon the Possession of the Natives to receive the same from them by a reasonable Purchase or free Assignement The Examiner witnesseth against all such Patents and Preacheth it to be unlawfull for Magistrates to execute Justice upon the English by them and that it is necessary to repent of receiving such Patents and to returne them back againe into the hands of those Princes or of their Successors from whom they received them 5. We witnesse that it is lawfull for Magistrates especially in time of danger to offer to the Subjects under them an Oath of Fidelity whether they be regenerate or unregenerate Mr. Williams witnesseth it to be utterly unlawfull so to doe an Oath for confirmation of Office being peculiar to Christ and an Oath being a worship of God not meete for unregenerate Persons to take into their mouths 6. Wee witnesse that if a Church refuse to hearken to the voyce of Magistrates in delaying the Election or ordination of such an one to Office whom they finde to be troublesome to the State then it may be lawfull for Magistrates to delay the granting of the Petition of such a Church for Lands that lie convenient for them Mr. Williams witnesseth that in such a case the Church whose Petition is so delayed may write Letters of Admonition to all the Churches whereof such Magistrates are members to require them to grant without delay such Petitions or else to Proceed against them in a Church-way Now let the Churches of Jesus Christ and all the Saints on earth judge in whether sort of these witnesses the word and Spirit of Christ or Antichrist breatheth As for the deciphering which the Examiner maketh of Mr Cotton as swimming with the streame of outward credit and profit and smiting with the fist and
though not in regard of the falshood of the estate yet in regard of the pollutions that cleaved to it which were as so many false wayes in the Administration of it 2. The second thing which he would have to be observed is my own confession of that which a little before I would make so odious in him to hold to wit That Gods People may be so farre enthralled to Antichrist as to separate them from Christ For these were my words If they see and bewaile so much of their former pollutions as did enthrall them to Antichrist so as to separate them from Christ Reply 1. His expressions of himselfe in that Point were so incommodious as that a plaine Reader such as my selfe unwonted to heare such language in his sence could not easily conceive that he speaking of godly persons no lesse unfit for Church-fellowship then Trees and Quarries unfit for a Building I say I could not easily conceive that by Trees and Quarries should be meant any other persons then unregenerate and it seemed to me to imply a contradiction to call them ungodly who were unregenerate Reply 2. The Examiner wrongeth himselfe and me to say That I would have made it odious in him to say that godly persons cannot be so enthralled to Antichrist as to-separate them from Christ The odiousnesse he speaketh of is a contradiction And it was himselfe not I that forged that contradiction as hath been shewed above Reply 3. My words out of which he gathereth this observation are misreported and the contradiction ariseth from his misreport not from my words For Gods People and godly persons are not all one Any Church-members may be called Gods People as being in externall Covenant with him Psal 81.11 and yet they are not alwayes godly persons Gods People may be so enthralled to Antichrist as to separate them utterly from Christ both as Head of the visible and invisible Church also But godly persons cannot be so enthralled to Antichrist as to separate them from Christ as the Head of the invisible Church though as I said before they may be separated from him as the Head of the visible Church 3. The third thing which the Examinen would have to be observed in my words is How easily a soule may wander in his generalls for thus I write though they see not all the pollutions wherewith they have been defiled in their former Church-fellowship Againe if they did see so much as did enthrall them to Antichrist and separate them from Christ And yet saith he he expresseth nothing of that all the pollutions nor what so much is as will separate them from Christ Reply 1. Though these words might seeme generall to a stranger who knew nothing of the occasion of them yet to the Examiner himselfe to whom in private I writ them it was easie and obvious to poynt with the finger at the particular I intended in these He knoweth the Question was Whether the hearing of the Ministers of the Parishes in England was such an Antichristian pollution as either to cut off such persons from Church-fellowship or the Churches themselves from Christ Our Answer was 1. That it was no Antichristian pollution at all 2. If it were it was more then either our members or our Churches yet saw or were convinced of and then generall confessions and generall repentance would serve for unknowne knowne sinnes To the same purpose is this generall Answer framed here which himselfe well knoweth upon what particular occasion it grew and to what particular case it had reference Reply 2. Besides why should we count the Answer as wandring in Generalities when it was fitted to his generall Objection His Objection was Chapt. 10. That a necessitie lay upon godly men before they can be fit matter for Church fellowship to see bewaile repent come out of the false Churches Worship Ministery Government Now here are onely generall words no particular mention of the falshoods that lye in the Churches Worship Ministery Government Why should he blame wandring in Generalitie in the Answer when his own Objection wandereth in the like Generalities Reply 3. If he please to look back to the Reply given in his 12. Chapter he may finde me plaine and punctuall in Instancing in particulars But thus having passed over his Observations upon my former Answer he now cometh to returne Answer to me by demanding a Question or two to wit 1. Whether if a godly person remaine a member of a salsely constituted Church and so consequently in that respect of a false Christ whether in visible worship he be not separate from the true Christ Answ That I may not delude neither him nor my selfe by answering to obscure and ambiguous termes I would know by some that understand his speech what he meaneth by a falsely constituted Church or else give me leave to explaine the termes my selfe There be but two things intrinsecally necessary to the constitution of any thing so of a Church to wit a fit matter and a fit forme The matter of a Church are visible Saints Proâ—essors of the faith of Christ The forme is an holy Covenant or Agreement either explicite or implicite to joyne together in one Congregation to worship the Lord and to edifie one another in the Administration of his holy Ordinances Now if in stead of visible Saints professing the Name of Christ there be a company of prophane persons Idolaters Hereticks that shall covenant or agree together to joyne in a Congregation to worship Idolls and to build up one another in Heresie and Apostasie This is Ecclesia Malignantium a false constituted Church And consequently the Head of this Church is a false Christ and every member of this Church who joyneth with them in this way is in visible worship separate from the true Christ In this sence I would answer to the Examiners first Question Affirmatively His second Question then is Whether it be not absolutely necessary to a godly persons uniting with the true Church that is with Christ in true Christian worship that he see and bewaile and absolutely come out from that former false Church or Christ and his Ministery Worship c. before he can be united to the true Israel Answ I would readily answer this Question Affirmatively also unlesse there be a fallacy in the latter absolutely For his Question is Whether it be not absolutely necessary unto uniting with a true Church to see and bewaile and come out absolutely from the false Church or Christ or Ministery or Worship c. This latter absolutely if it imply no more then coming out altogether from all that separateth from true Christ I grant it absolutely but if he meane coming out from every thing of theirs say from every good gift yea from every error amongst them which doth not separate from Christ and then I deny that it is absolutely necessary either to see or bewaile all or in that sence absolutely to come out of all His similitudes brought to
not first a Puritan For as Mr. Can hath unanswerably proved the grounds and principles of the Puritans against Bishops and Ceremonies and prophanesse of people professing Christ and the necessitie of Christs flock and discipline must necessarily if truly followed lead on to and enforce a separation Reply 1. If there were hardly ever any conscientious Separatist who was not first a Puritan then it seemeth that if there be any Conscience in the Separatists it was first wrought in them by the Ministers of those whom he calleth Puritans 2. Say it were true that he pretendeth That the principles and grounds of Puritanisme did enforce Separation yet I doe not understand what it maketh to the point in hand 3. Neither doe I understand how it suiteth with the Examiners profession who is wont to renounce all communion with Antichristian inventions so frequently to take up into his mouth and pen the Nickname of Puritans which was at first devised by Sanders the Jesuite to cast a reproach upon the persons and way of reformers to render them suspicious and odious to the State The righteous hand of the Lord struck him with madnesse who invented the name nor doth he delight in them that delight to take up a reproach against the innocent 4. How unanswerably Mr. Can hath proved the necessity of Separation from their grounds and principles I will not judge because I have not seene his Booke But to separate from the Churches of England as no Churches or false Churches from their Ministery as a false Ministery from their Sermons as false worship from their professors as no visible Saints And to prove all this out of the Principles and grounds of those holy Saints of God whom he misnameth Puritans will require a strong efficacy of delusions to make it appeare probable to a sad and judicious spirit that is not sorestalled with prejudice or partialitie But the Examiner proceedeth in his Answer to enquire What should be the Reason why the Separatist who witnesseth against the Roote of the Constitution it selfe should finde more favour then the Puritan or Non-conformist And he telleth us Doubtlesse the reasons are evident 1. Because most of the Separatists have been poore and low and not such gainfull Customers to the Bishops their Courts and Officers Mr. Ainsworth himselfe though a worthy instrument of Gods praise lived upon nine pence in the weeke with roots boyled c. Reply In part I will not deny some truth and weight in this reason But take it for granted and it doth but confirme what I said that the Separatist found more favour then the Non-conformist whatsoever the reason was The second reason that he giveth is That it is a principle in nature to preferre a professed enemy before a pretended friend The Separatists have been looked at by the Bishops and their adherents as knowne and professed enemies whereas the Puritans have professed subjection and submitted to the Bishops their Courts their Officers their Common Prayer and worships And yet the Bishops have well knowne with no greater affection then the Israelites bore the Aegyptians cruell task-masters Reply 1. What the Non-conformists did beare it was no more then they thought they might beare with a good Conscience according to the light they had received If they did beare more then what in Conscience they judged lawfull to be borne they had no reason to beare with themselves in so doing But if the Bishops bore the lesse with them in such their subjection it was because they looked at them not as pretended friends but as more dangerous enemies as knowing both that the Lord was with them which made Saul the more afraid of David 1 Sam. 18.28 29. as also that the grounds which they gave of their judgement and practise were more agreeable to Scripture and to the judgement of all reformed Churches and therefore more likely in time to prevaile to the utter overthrow of their usurped Hierarchy But as for the Separatists the Bishops did not discerne either the Lord going forth in like sort with them or their grounds so likely to subvert their freehold Though the Separatists struck at the roote of the Constitutions of their Churches which was indeed a greater blow then to strike at the roote of Episcopacy yet because the Episcopacy saw that the Separatists struck at the things of Christ together with themselves they knew such stroakes would not much hurt their standing The next word which the Examiner answereth is unto that I said God hath not prospered the way of Separation neither with peace amongst themselves nor with growth of grace His answer is 1. That want of peace may befall the truest Churches of the Lord Jesus as them at Antioch Corinth Galatia Reply The distraction at Antioch was soone healed by the Counsell of the Synod at Hierusalem which is a way of peace which the Churches of the rigid Separation have not knowne nor will condescend unto which makes their dissentions destitute of hopes of reconciliation without separation one from another The like may be said of the Churches of Galatia and Corinth I doe not read their differences were healed by Separation but by listning to Apostolicall Counsell 2. His second Answer is that it is a common Character of a false Church maintained by the Smiths and Cutlers shop to enjoy peace none daring for feare of civill punishment to question or differ c. Reply Though it be a common Character of a false Church to enjoy a forced and violent peace yet it is a peculiar Character of a true Church to enjoy holy peace with God and one with another which where it is wanting there is something else wanting either in their Faith or Order 3. His third Answer is That Gods people in that way have sometimes long enjoyed sweet peace and soule contentment in England Holland New-England and other places c. Reply The Answer had been more cleare and evident if he had named those Churches who have long enjoyed such peace in that way in that way I say of rigid Separation separating from the Churches of England as altogether false in their Constitution Ministry worship and therefore refusing to heare the word in the best of the Parish Assemblies It is a wise Proverb of a wiser then Soloman The back slider in heart from any Truth or way of God shall be filled with his owne wayes They that separate from their brethren further then they have just cause shall at length find cause or at least thinke they have found cause just enough to separate one from another I never yet heard of any instance to the contrary either in England or Holland And for New-England there is no such Church of the Separation at al that I know of That separate Church if it may be called a Church which separated with Mr. Williams first broke into a division about a small occasion as I have heard and then broke forth into Anabaptisme and then into Antibaptisme and Familisme
that the Spirit of God maketh the Ministry one of the Foundations of Christian Religion Heb. 6.1.2 for it is onely a foundation of Church Order not of faith or Religion the Apostle puts an expresse difference between faith and Church Order Colos 2.5 Nor is it a true and safe speech to call the Fellowship or blessing of God vouchsafed to corrupt Churches or Ministers or Ministrations to call it I say unpromised or to be beyond a word or promise of God For it is a large and yet an expresse promise of the Covenant of Grace that God will be mercifull to our iniquities Ier. 31.34 That he will be mercifull to every one that prepareth his heart to seeke God though he be not cleansed according to the Purification of the Sanctuary 2 Chron. 30.18 19 20. with many more such like And therefore there wants not Promises of Grace and blessing to the People of God notwithstanding some defects and impurities found in their Administrations Neither will it follow that if our Ministery and Ordination here be true that then the former which we had in England was false especially so false as that according to visible Rule Fellowship with God was lost For the Rite of Ordination we doe not looke at it as any Essentiall Part of our vocation to the Ministry no more then Coronation is an Essentiall Part of the Office of the King And though we doe not justly sundry things found in our Ministry yet Jehoshuah the High Preist did not loose his Fellowship with God though he was cloathed with filthy Garments Zach. 3.3 4. 2. Concerning Prayer though the New English Ministers have witnessed against the Common set-Forme thereof which yet our selves in our ignorance have somtimes used and have therefore seen just cause to judge our selves since yet we did not thereby loose fellowship with God by such sinnnes of Ignorance no more then the People of God did in the dayes of Hezekiah by sacrificeing to God in the High places when yet they did it to the Lord their God onely 2 Chron. 33.17 I know no such faithfull Admonishers as presented to us in England Arguments against the Common Prayer which then seemed weake but now are acknowledged to be sound though such a thing possibly may be true howsoever forgotten But this I am perswaded to be utterly false that any of us satisfied our hearts with the Practise of the Author of the Councell of Trent who used to read some of the choysest select Prayers out of the Mass-Booke The Spirit of a childe of God though upon occasion he may receive such a Practise yet he can never satisfie himselfe with the Practise of any godly man for the warrant of his Imitation without some further light or at least apprehension of light from the word 3. It is readily graunted that which is observed in the third place That Gods people may live and die in such kindes of Worship though light from the Word whether publickly or privately hath been presented to them able to convince Neverthelesse that will not weaken the Conclusion formerly mentioned and afterwards further discussed That Fundamentalls are so cleare that a man cannot but be convinced in Conscience of the Truth of them after two or three Admonitions and that therefore such a Person as still continueth obstinate is condemned of himselfe and if he then be punished He is not punished for his Conscience but for sinning against his owne Conscience For both these may well stand together and are farre of from crossing or contrarying one another A set forme of Prayer though it be unlawfull yet it is not such a Fundamentall Error either in judgement or practise as cutteth off from fellowship with God That is onely a resolute Assertion of the Discusser but a vouched without all colour or pretence from the Scripture There is some resemblance and proportion betweene Praying and Prophesying Moses used an unwarranted way and Forme of Prophesying when God Commaunding him to speake to the Rock before the Congregation of Israel He spake not to the Rock but stroke it with his Rod for which he had no Commaundement and spake to the People and that in a Passion and and both without a Commaundament Numb 20.8.11 And yet this did not cutt off his Fellowship with God nor Gods gracious Presence with him in giving water to the People no not at that time God knoweth how to be present with his People in blessing their Administrations and forgiving their iniquities though he doe take vengeance of their Inventions Psal 99.8 4. Though I doe maintaine as the Apostle doth a Clearnesse of Fundamentall Points of Religion and Worship such Fundamentalls I say without which Fellowship with God cannot be had and though I graunt that in subserting such Fundamentall Points and persisting therein after once or twice Admonition a man sinneth against his owne Conscience and is therefore censurable by the Church yea and by the Civill Magistrate also if after Conviction he continue to seduce others unto his Damnable Heresie yet I doe not herein measure to others that which my self when I lived in such practises would not have measured to my selfe For I thank God God never left me to live in any such Practises as to fall into any Fundamentall Error much lesse to Persist therein after Conviction and Admonition and least of all to seduce others thereinto If God should leave me so farre as to fall so fearefully into this three-fold degree of Hereticall wickednesse what am I better then other men better my selfe cut off by death or Banishment then the Flock of Christ to be seduced and destroyed by my Hereticall wickednesse CHAP. 6. A Reply to his sixth Chapter Discussing Civill peace and the Disturbance of it IN this Chapter the Discusser undertaketh to declare what Civill peace is and to shew that the Toleration of different Religions is no Disturbance of Civill Peace First for Civill peace what is it saith he but Pax Civitatis whether English or Irish Spanish or Turkish City Reply Be it so and if the Civill State or Common-wealth containe many Citties or Townes and so become a whole Countrey or Common-wealth let Civill Peace be the peace of the Countrey or of the Common-wealth But what is then the peace of the Citty or Countrey Is it not Tranquillitas Ordinis the tranquility of order in every Society wherein the Publicke Weale of the Citty or Countrey is concerned And is it not the proper worke of the Civill Magistrate to preserve the Civill Peace and to prevent or reforme the disturbance of the Tranquility or Peace of any such Societyes in whose Peace the Peace or Weale of the Citty or Society is concerned Suppose a Society of Merchants or Cloathyers or Fishmongers or Drapers or the like If the Weale of the Citty or Countrey be concerned in these as it is much concerned in them all It is not for the safety of the Civill Sate to suffer any of these so
Discusser IF it be said neither the Roman Caesar nor Herod nor Pilate knew ought of the true God or of Christ and it had been in vaine to have made complaint to them who were not fit and competent but ignorant and opposite Judges Answ 1. This removeth the stumbling blocke of Pauls appeale to Caesar which since he could not doe in common sence as to a competent Judge in such cases c. It must needes follow his appeale was meerely in respect of his civill wrongs c. Answ 2. If it had been an Ordinance of God that all civill Magistrates were bound to judge in causes spirituall and Christian as to suppresse Heresies to defend the Faith of Jesus although that Caesar Herod and Pontius Pilate were ignorant wicked and opposite Judges yet Christ and his Disciples should have gone as farre as lay in their power for redressing of evill and left it in the Magistrates hands Answ 3. If it had been the holy will of God to have established the Doctrine and Kingdome of his Sonne this way he would have furnished Kingdomes and Common-wealths with many good and gracious Magistrates to have fitted them for it Defender Reply 1. to Ans 1. Pauls appeale to Caesar was about the wrongs done unto the Jewes Acts 25.10 The wrongs to them were not onely civill but Church-offences which Paul denied Neither against the Law of the Jewes saith he nor against the Temple nor against Caesar have I offended any thing at all ver 8. Festus demanded if he would goe up to Hierusalem there to be judged of these things ver 9. These things were matters of Religion as well as civill offences To offend against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple were offences against Religion to offend against Caesar was a civill offence To be judged of these things Paul declineth the Court at Hierusalem as being unjustly prejudiced against him But professing his owne innocency and subjection to just judgement He appealeth to Caesars judgement seate ver 10 11. wherein three or foure things doe evidently appeare 1. That a man may be such an offender in matters of Religion against the Law of God against the Church as well as in civill matters against Caesar as to be worthy of death This Paul presupposeth ver 8 9 10. 2. That Paul or any other such like servant of Christ If he should commit any such offence he would not refuse judgement unto death ver 11. 3. That for the Judgement of his person in these causes whether ecclesiasticall or civill It is lawfull in some cases to appeale to a civill though a Pagan Magistrate In some cases I say as where both these concurre to wit 1. That Church-officers are maliciously prejudiced against a man and inferiour civil Courts incline to them 2. That a man be called in question amongst them in capitall causes which concerne his life But a fourth thing which appeareth from Pauls appeale is this That the civill Magistrate whether Christian or Pagan may and ought to be so well acquainted not onely with civill causes but also with causes of Religion especially such as concerne life as to be able to judge though not of all questions yet of capitall offences against Religion as well as against the civill State Reply 2. to Ans 2. The Marginall Note seemeth to imply a contradiction to it selfe for thus it speaketh Civill Magistrates were never appointed by God Defenders of the Faith of Jesus And againe Every one is bound to put forth himselfe to his utmost power in Gods Businesse Surely if every one be bound to put forth himselfe to his utmost power in Gods Businesse then civill Magistrates are bound to put forth their civill power in defending the Faith of Jesus Neither will it henceforth follow That either Christ or his Disciples were bound to complaine to Caesar or to Herod or to Pontius Pilate against the Heresies of the Pharises For though all Magistrates even Pagans ought to informe themselves in the matters of Faith and of Christian Religion that they may observe and preserve it and it will be a destructive sinne to them and their States if they doe neglect it Psal 2.10 11 12. Yet it may be safer for a Christian man being oppressed in inferiour Courts of hereticall malignant Judges to appeale from them unto Pagan Princes in his owne just defence then to make complaint to malignant hereticall Judges or to Pagan Princes against heresies or hereticall false Teacliers Christ sent out his Disciples as sheepe amongst wolves and therefore instructed them to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves Matth. 10.16 Now it is no part of wisedome for a sheepe of Christ to complaine to a kennell of wolves That amongst the wolves there be some of their company doe make havocke of the sheepe leading them aside into damnable heresies If a poore sheepe should attempt such a thing would not the whole kennell of wolves arise up against him as a troubler of their State that when he enjoyeth peace himselfe they trouble not him yet he will needes be so busie as to trouble them And therefore we deny that it had tended to the defence of the Faith of Jesus or to the suppressing Herisies for Christ and his Disciples to have complained to Herod Pilate Caesar of the heresies of the Pharises It had rather tended to the disturbance and suppression of the Faith of Jesus by provoking the malice of the Pharises and by disquieting civill Thrones with feares and jealousies of a new Kingdome springing up amongst them Besidâ—â— it had been altogether preposterous to make use of the civill power for the first publishing of the Gospell of peace It was necessary the Gospell should first be knowne and received and beleeved and professed before any could be complained of for Apostacy from it into Heresie or seducement of others into such wickednesse Reply 3. to Ans 3. We doe not say It is the holy Will and Purpose of God to establish the Doctrine and Kingdome of his Sonne our Lord Jesus onely this way to wit by the helpe of civill Authority For it is his Will also to magnifie his Power in establishing the same by a contrary way even by the sufferings patient sufferings of his Saints and by the bloudy swords of persecuting Magistrates Revel 12.11 So that Christ need not to send good and gracious Magistrates as if for want of them the Christian Faith and Religion would fall to the ground for it hath spread and flourished under fiery and cruell persecution But yet this hindreth not but that it is the duty of Magistrates to know the Sonne and to kisse him to acknowledge his Kingdome and submit their Thrones and Crownes to it to love his truth and to be nursing Fathers to his Church Isai 49.23 which how they can doe and yet not be Defenders of the Faith of Jesus I doe not understand CHAP. 31. A Reply to his thirteenth Chapter discussing by the way the
Text in Isai 49.23 Discusser 1. THat place of Isaiah 49.23 will appeare to be farre from proving such Kings and Queenes Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes And if not Judges they may not punish 2. In spirituall things themselves are subject to the Church shall licke the dust of the Churches feet as is there exprest How then shall those Kings and Queenes be Supreame Governours of the Church 3. Gods Israel of old being earnest for a King an Arme of flesh God gave them Saul in his anger and tooke him away in his wrath So God will take away such Princes in his wrath that so as David succeeded Saul so Christ Jesus in his spirituall Power may for ever be advanced Defender Reply 1. We doe not alledge that place in Isaiah to prove Kings and Queenes to be Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes but to be providers for the Churches well-being and protectours of it For so much the very phrase of nursing Fathers and Mothers doth necessarily import But if they be Protectours of the Church and providers of the well-being of it then are they also Defenders of the faith of it so farre as their defence in a way of God is dispensable So Magistrates are also called Shepheards of the people as well as Ministers Ezec. 34. Now it is a part of a Shepheards protection of his sheepe to drive away wolves from sheepe-folds And it is the like part of good Magistrates to drive away false Prophets from the Churches whom our Saviour calleth ravening wolves Matth. 7.15 But saith he Magistrates are not Judges of Ecclesiasticall causes and if not Judges they may not punish Answ There is a three-fold Judgement 1. A Judgement of private spirituall Discretion and so a spirituall man judgeth all things 1 Cor. 2.15 and so may a Magistrate judge also if he be a spirituall man 2. There is Judicium Propheticum A propheticall Judgement whereby the Prophets having received a greater gift of spirituall discerning of the things of God and an office to declare the same doe judge of Doctrins with Authority Let the Prophets judge 2 Cor. 14.29.32 And this the Ministeriall Judgement of the Church but here the Magistrates Judgement doth not interpose as a Magistrate but as a Brother 3. There is Judicium Politicum the Judgement of civill power whereby a Magistrate being called of God to provide that his people may lead a peaceable life in godlinesse and honesty he therefore is called to discerne not onely what is honesty or righteousnes before men but what is godlinesse also before the Lord accordingly judgeth of godly ungodly doctrines practises so far as tendeth to the upholding of publicke Peace For it is evident in the Scriptures of the New-Testament that when Magistrates were so blindly devout and superstitious as to give their Kingdomes unto the Beast as Rev. 17.12 13. and so to tolerate the publicke worship of Images and other Idolls they thereby overthrew the civill Peace of their Common-wealth For to punish their ungodlinesse it was that God opened a way for the Turkes to breake out and destroy the 3d part of Christendome Rev. 9.14 to 21. Reply 2. Both these may well stand together that Magistrates may be subject to the Church and licke the dust of her feet yet be supreame Governours of the Church also In spirituall matters and in the right administration of them the Magistrates are subject to the Church But in civill matters and in corrupt administration of Church-Affaires so farre corrupt as tendeth to the disturbance of civill Peace there the Magistrates are supreame Governours even over Churches also in their owne Dominions Reply 3. It was no sinne in Israel of old to aske a King but to aske him before the time appointed and to aske him in a tumultuous manner with rejection of Samuel and to aske him for carnall and prophane ends that they might be like to all other Nations whom God did not approve they should affect to be like unto Otherwise had they tarried Gods time God had appointed to give them a King out of the Tribe of Judah Gen. 49.10 It is true God tooke away Saul in his wrath but not for exercising civill Power against spirituall wickednesse for he did justly exercise it against Witches but for other well-knowne notorious wickednesse And as for David we doe not reade that he did exercise any spirituall Power as a King but as a Prophet CHAP. 32. A Reply to his Chap. 32. Discusser THough for the present the punishment of corrupt Teachers as the Scribes and Pharises were be deferred yet their waiteth for them an higher pitch of punishment then any Corporall can reach unto As 1. Starke Blindnesse c. 2. Incurable Blindnesse c. 3. Their end is the Ditch c. 4. The Leaders of others into the ditch shall find their owne ruine horrible and the ruine of their followers eternally galling tormenting Defender The Discusser himselfe knoweth and accordingly expresseth himselfe in his next words That it is the like case of all sinners and of all malefactours their punishment in hell will be more horrible and full of torment then can be inflicted in this world And yet the State is often bound to punish them and in many cases by death it selfe Discusser Be it so But what is this to a blind Pharisee resisting the Doctrine of Christ who hapily may be as good a Subject and as peaceable and profitable to the civill State as any c. Defender But what is this to the question in hand we doe not hold it lawfull for a Christian Magistrate to compell by civill sword either Pharisee or any Jew or Pagan to professe the Religion or Doctrine of the Lord Jesus much lesse doe we thinke it meet for a private Christian to provoke either Jewish or Pagan Magistrates to compell Pharises to submit to the Doctrine or Religion of Christ Jesus And therefore all these Chapters from 29. to 35. seven Chapters in all tending to prove that Christs Disciples were to let the Pharises alone in this way are but so many empty flourishes beating the aire playing with a shadow And yet the rest of the Chapters which remaine must not passe without some Advertisement of such passages in them as doe corrupt the truth of Christ How the Pharises can be as good subjects and as peaceable and profitable to the civill State as any who yet destroyed the civill State by destroying Christ let any but a blind conscience judge CHAP. 33. Discusser IT is truth The mischiefe of a blind Pharises blind guidance is greater then if he acted treasons murders c. And the losse of one soule by his seduction is a greater mischiefe then if he blew up Parliaments or cut the throats of Kings and Emperours c. And therefore a firme justice that requires an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth life for life calleth also soule for soule But that no civill sword can inflict but the Lord
Jesus onely Defender Reply 1. But he that corrupteth a soule with a corrupt religion or worship layeth a spreading leaven which corrupteth the State The Idolatry began in the House of Micah corrupted Laish Judges chap. 17. and chap. 18. And that was the beginning of sinne to the Daughter of Zion Micah 1.13 And that Apostacy was the captivity of the Land As in the New-Testament the worship of Images was the advancement of the Turkes and the ruine of Christian States Rev. 9.14 to 21. When therefore the corruption or destruction of soules is a destruction also of lives liberties estates of men lex talionis calleth for not onely soule for soule but life for life Reply 2. False Prophets in the Old-Testament did but corrupt the soules of some and it may be did not corrupt them neither but attempted it onely And yet amongst Gods people where lex talionis was much attended the Law was Thine eye shall not spare him Deut. 13. The reason of which execution is not fetched from any typicall holinesse of the Land but from the dangerous wickednesse of the attempt to thrust away a soule from God which is a greater injury then to deprive a man of bodily life Discusser But dead men cannot die nor be infected Naturall men the civill State the world are dead in sinne c. Defender Reply 1. Dead men may be made worse by corrupt Teachers two-fold more the children of hell then before Matth. 23.15 And therefore such as so corrupt them are worthy in a way of due proceeding of a two-fold death Reply 2. Such as professe the truth of the Doctrine and Worship of Christ they live a kind of spirituall life though not such as accompanieth salvation Else how are false Teachers and such as are led by them said to be twice dead plucked up by the roots Jude ver 12. And therefore it is not true that such as being in a naturall state are dead in sinne annot be infected nor die againe Discusser As in the common infection of the plague so in the infection of heresie none can be strucke deadly but whom God hath thereunto ordained c. Defender Reply 1. No more can any man be murthered but whom God hath ordained thereunto But it is a prophane sacriledge to excuse or alleviate the punishment of sinne by Gods eternall predestination Was the sinne of Herod or the Jewes or of Pontius Pilate any whit the lesse because they did nothing against Christ but what the hand of God and his Counsell had fore-determined to be done Acts 4.29 Sure it is Christ aggravateth the sinne of Judas and of the High-Priests and Elders of the Jewes by this Argument that Pilate could doe nothing against him but as it was given him from above Therefore saith he he that delivered me to thee hath the greater sinne John 19.11 Reply 2. The Discusser himselfe acknowledgeth That though in a common plague or infection none are smitten or die but such as are ordained thereunto yet it is not onely every mans duty but the common duty of the Magistrates to prevent infection and to preserve the common health of the place by removing infectious persons into solitary tabernacles Discusser True but the meanes God hath appointed for preservation from spirituall infection and perdition are spirituall such as God directeth to Rev. 2. Tit. 3.10 11. Rom. 16.17 But the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for either Antidote or Remedy as an addition to those Spirituals The Remedy which God preseribed to the Angell of the Church of Pergamus It were a Babylonish confusion to interpret it as sent to the Governour of the City of Pergamus Defender Subordinata and so Coordinata non pugnant It is true Christ hath appointed spirituall meanes for the avoiding and preventing the infection of heresies so hath he also for the preventing and avoiding all offences in Church-members But that hindreth not the lawfull and necessary use of a civill sword for the punishment of some such offences as are subject to Church-censure If indeed the Ordinances of Christ in the Church doe prevaile to the avoiding and healing of heresies there is no need of the civill sword for that end But it often falleth out otherwise as 1. That when the Church hath cast out an Heretick yet he still remaineth obstinate and proceedeth to seduce and destroy the faith of some it may be of many as did Hymeneus and Philetus 2 Tim. 2.17 18. If the Magistrates sword doe here rust in the scabberd such leaven may leaven the whole Masse of a City or Countrey As by this meanes Arrianisme leavened the world by the indulgence of Constantius Ingemuit Orbis Christianus miratus est factum se esse Arrianum 2. It may be the Heretick was never any member of the Church and then though the Church may lay in some Antidotes and Purges to preserve or recover their Members yet how shall they succour such as are not subject to their censures Or how shall they prevent the spreading of this noisome leprofie in private Conventicles But the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for an Antidote or Remedy in such a case Answ It is evident the civill sword was appointed for a remedy in this case Deut. 13. And appointed it was by that Angell of Gods presence whom God promised to send with his people as being unwilling to goe along with them himselfe Exod. 33.2 3. And that Angell was Christ whom they tempted in the wildernesse 1 Cor. 10.9 And therefore it cannot truely be said that the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for a remedy in such a case For he did expressely appoint it in the Old-Testament nor did he ever abrogate it in the New The reason of the Law which is the life of the Law is of eternall force and equity in all Ages Thou shult surely kill him because be hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God Deut. 13.9 10. This reason is of morall that is of universall and perpetuall equity to put to death any Apostate seducing Idolater or Heretick who seeketh to thrust away the soules of Gods people from the Lord their God If Magistrates be the Ministers of God in the New-Testament as Paul calleth them Rom. 13.4 And Ministers of God to execute vengeance on him that doeth evill surely either this is no evill to seeke to thrust away Gods people from him or the Magistrate beareth not the sword in vaine to execute vengeance on such an evill doer Yea but such an evill is evill onely to the inner man not to the civill State Answ But if a man imagine evill against the Lord it is a destructive evill to a whole City yea to a Pagan City and God will visit such an evill with such an affliction as shall be no lesse then utter destruction to such a City It shall not rise up the second time Nahum 1.9.11 Discusser But the eivill Magistrate hath his charge of the bodies
dispencing and pressing of spirituall matters for the immediate producing of spirituall ends as for a Magistrate to draw his sword to compell all his Subjects to the obedience of the faith if Christ and to the profession of it But this is not unfitting nor improper That a Magistrate should draw his sword though not in matters spirituall yet about matters spiritual to protect them in peace and to stave off the disturbers and destroyers of them It were improper and unfitting for carpenters to bring their Axes and Hammers to build up the spirituall Kingdome and Church of Christ But yet their tooles are fitting to build up scaffolds that the people may draw neere to heare the Word by hearing be brought on to faith and salvation CHAP. 45. A Reply to his 45. Chap. Discusser TO Batter and take a strong Hold or Fort men bring not a first and second Admonition and after obstinacy Excommunication But they bring Canons Culverings Sakers Bullets Powder Musquets Swords Pikes weapons suitable and proportionable On the other side to batter downe Idolatry false worship Heresy out of the soule and spirit It is vaine Improper unsuitable to bring the usuall weapons of persecutors Stocks Whips Prisons Swords Gibbtts Stakes But against these spirituall sirong holds in the soules of men spirituall Artillery and weapons are proper and mighty through God to subdue every thought to obedience Defender Let this stand as it shall for me It nothing toucheth the Question in hand It is farre from me to allow the Civill Magistrate to make use of his Civill weapons to batter downe Idolatry and Heresy in the soules of men but for this end he is to use spirituall weapons and all Lenity and wisdome in the improvement thereof But if the Idolater or Heretick grow obstinate as the Apostle saith waxe worse and worse deceiving himselfe and others to the destroying or corrupting and disturbing of others now the Magistrate maketh use not of Stocks and Whipps for these doe not remove but exasperate the malady but of Death or Banishment that may cut him off from opportunity of spreading the leaven and Gangerne of his pernicious wayes whether in Doctrine or practise It is one thing to speake oâ— Heresie and Idolatry in the Abstract another in the Concrete Heresie Idolatry and all spirituall wickednesse cannot be rooted out of the hearts of the sonnes of men but by spirituall weapons But Hereticks and Idolaters may be restrained from the open practise and profession of their wickednesse by the Sword of Justice and such weapons of Righteousnesse Discusser But though these weapons were proper yet they are unnecessary For if spirituall weapons in the hand of Church Officers be able mighty and sufficient and ready for the Lords worke either to save or to kill the soule c. How doth the Magistrate come in to help but as if the Lord had no power Defender This is a meere pretence in the mouth pen of the Discusser For he having cut off all the Churches of Christ and all Church Ordinances and Church-weapons from off the face of the earth for these many ages past and I know not for how many yeares yet to come If Civill weapons be debarred from defending Religion upon pretence that Church-weapons are sufficient and and then no Churches nor Church weapons to be found upon the face of the earth then let all Seducers to Apostacy Idolaters Hereticks let them all rejoyce in an open doote of liberty safety which the Discusser hath set wide open before them If Civill States must not and Churches cannot come in to helpe the Lord shall the curse of Meroz be so avoided because the Lord wanteth not power to help himselfe But I might reply further that though spiritual weapons are mighty through God and sufficient to those ends for which the Lord appointed them which are to purge out leaven from their holy communion and to mortify the flesh of offendors yet that is not supersedeas to Civill Magistrates to neglect to punish those sins which the Church hath censured if the persons censured do proceed to subvert the truth of the Gospel or the peace of the Church or the salvation of the people The rest of the Discussers discourse in this chapter are as Jude speaketh clouds without water words without matter CHAP. 46. A Reply to his Chap. 46. Discussing Rom. 13. Discusser This Scripture Rom. 13. which it pleaseth the Answerer to quote how hath both himselfe and many excellent servants of God wrested not as Peter writeth of the wicked to their eternall yet to their owne and others tempor all destruction by civill warres and combustions in the world Defender This charge is a greivous crime if it be truly proved a greivous slaunder if it be not proved The rest of the Chapter proveth it not but that onely which I willingly graunt that this 13th Chapter to the Romans exhorteth unto subjection to Magistrates unto love to all men which are duties partaining to the second Table Howbeit though subjection to Magistrates and love to all men be duties which concerne the second Table a point which needed no proofe yet this inference will not here follow That therefore Magistrates have nothing to doe to punish any violation no not of the weightiest duties of the first Table It is a cleare case amongst the duties of the second Table people may be exhorted to honor their Ministers and children may be exhorted to honor their Parents But will it thence follow that therefore Ministers have nothing to doe with matters of Religion in the Church or parents in the Family CHAP. 47. A Reply to his Chap. 47. Discusser THere be excellent and precious servants of God in their time who have absolutely denyed the 13. of the Rom. to concerne any matter of the first Table Defender I will not stand upon the last use in that Chapter put you on the Lord Jesus Christ which I hope the Discusser himselfe will not deny much lesse say that any Excellent and precious servants of God doe absolutely deny that such a Duty concerneth the first Table But what is it that the servants of God say Discusser Calvin saith this whole Discourse concerneth Civill Magistrates and therefore in vaine doe they who exereise Power over Consciences goe about from this place to establish their sacrilegious Tyranny Defender Calvins Judgement herein as generally in other points is sound and agreeable to the Text but not at all favouring the Discussers Imagination This whole Disputation saith he is of Civill Governments whereupon this inference is according to his owne true meaning and scope therefore it doth nor concerne Church-Government Therefore such Church-Governours as upon pretence of this Text doe make Lawes without the word and besides the word to bind Conscience and to usurp power over Consciences they in vaine goe about to establish their sacrilegious Tyranny from this place But what is this to the point in hand Church-Governours
under them But they all were strangers from the life of God yea most averse and opposite yea cruell and bloudy Persecutors of the Name and followers of Jesus and yet unto these is subjection commanded Now then I argue If Paul had commanded this subjection to Romane Magistrates in spirituall causes to defend the Truth to punish Hereticks neither of which they could discerne nor judge of but by Trust from others as Pilate condemned Jesus he must in the Judgement of all men have put out the eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once Defender Not in the Judgement of all men for besides Calvin and Beza whose Judgement you have heard all those Interpreters who expound this place in the Romans of the Magistrates power in punishing spirituall evill doers as well as corporall they none of them doe so judge that Paul in commanding the Churches to yeild subjection unto civill Magistrates in matters of Religion did put out the Eye of Faith and Reason and sense at once For first it is one thing to yeild subjection to the unrighteous Decrees of Ignorant and Pagan Magistrates another thing to obey their Ordinances in matters of Faith and worship and Government of the Church The former of these Christians did yeild unto the Romane Magistrates even subjection unto the Death the other they neither did nor ought to yeild as knowing God was to be obeyed rather then men Secondly though it be true whilst the Romane Emperours and Magistrates were Pagans and Persecutors they were incompetent Judges to discerne and give Sentence in the spirituall matters of Christian Religion yet the word of Christ who commandeth a Duty commandeth all the necessary meanes which tend to that Duty And therefore in giving them a Power and charge to execute vengeance on evill doers and that in matters of spirituall unrighteousnesse against the Church as in matters of Civill unrighteousnesse against the Common-wealth It behoved them to enquire and listen after true Religion to heare and trie all and upon serious deliberate and just scruting to hold fast that which is good and so prevent the disturbance thereof by the contrary It was no vaine charge of the Holy Ghost Psal 2 10 11 12. If Christ have an Iron Scepter in his hand to crush all States and Kingdomes Emperours and Princes as well as private persons Be wise now therefore ô yee Kings be instructed yee that are Judges of the Earth serve the Lord with feare rejoyce unto him with trembling Kisse the Sonne least he be angry and yee perish in the way Thirdly the cases of Religion wherein we allow Civill Magistrates to be Judges are so fundamentall and palpable that no Magistrate studious of Religion in the feare of God but if he have any spirituall discerning as all truly Christian Magistrates have and even Pagans have discerned between innocent Christians and turbulent Seducers he cannot but judge of such grosse corruptions as are unsufferable in Religion as hath been opened above Though we reserve to the Prophets and Churches Judicium Propheticum as hath been said above yet we allow Judicium Politicum to Civill Magistrates studious of Truth as all ought to be and the Judgement of Discretion unto all Christians But as for such Magigistrates as are meerely naturall and Pagan though Christians be bound to subject themselves unto them with patience yet such Magistrates ought to forbeare the exercise of their Power either in protecting or punishing matters of Religion till they have learned so much knowledge of the Truth as may enable them to discerne of things that differ But this forbearance of theirs is not for want of Authority in their callings nor for want of Duty in their Consciences but for want of evidence to them in the cause In which Case Magistrates are wont to forbeare their exercise of their Power and to respit Judgement even in Civill causes not for want of Authority or Duty to doe Justice But for want of ripe and full cognizance of the Cause CHAP. 49. A Reply to his Chap. 49. Discusser VVHy then did Paul himselfe appeale to Caesar Acts 25. unlesse that Caesar though he was not yet yet he ought to have been a fit Judge in such matters Answ Paul appealed to Caesar not to judge the cause of his Religion but to defend him from civill violence and slanderous accusations about sedition mutiny civill Disobedience c. From which Caesar as a supreme civill Magistrate ought to defend him Defender This appeale of Paul to Caesar doth evidently hold forth three things 1. That there is a lawfull and needfull use of civill Magistracy unto Christians 2. That Church Officers even of highest ranck the Apostles themselves and other Ministers are subject to civill Authority as well as private Christians 3. That Paul did submit to Caesars Judgement-seate the tryall of his innocency as well in matters of Religion as in civill conversation For he pleadeth his innocency that he was guilty in none of those things whereof they did accuse him and for tryall hereof he appealeth to Caesar ver 11. Now the things whereof they did accuse him were offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple as well as against Caesar ver 8. And offences against the Law of the Jewes and against the Temple were matters of Religion And yet even in these Paul appealeth to Caesars Judgement-seat for tryall of his innocency Discusser But if Paul in this Appeale to Caesar had submitted his Religion which was the cause of Christ his Ministery and Ministration to the Romane Emperours Tribunall he had sinned First against the light of Reason Secondly against the cause of Religion Thirdly against the holy Calling of a Christian Fourthly against his owne calling of Apostleship Fifthly against the holy name of God c. Defender All these sinnes might with some colour have been charged upon Paul if he had appealed to Caesar to Judge whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were of God or no. But that was no point of his Appeale But whether his Religion or Ministery or Ministration were guilty of any capitall crime against the Law of the Jewes or against the Temple or against Caesar Now in this case Paul might safely appeale to Caesar and that to the Honour of God of his Apostolick and Christian Calling and to the glory of his Religion The Reasons against Pauls Appeale in this case are but bul-rushes CHAP. 50. A Reply to his Chap. 50. Discusser HAving dispatched two Arguments against the founding of the civill Magistrates power in spirituall causes in Rom. 13. First from the Testimony of Calvin and Beza the second from Caesars incompetency and insufficiency to Judge of spirituall matters I come now to the third Argument taken from the nature of the Magistrates weapons he hath a Sword and that Sword is a civill Sword a Sword of civill Justice which being of a materiall and civill nature serveth for the defence of Persons Estates Families Liberties of
once and againe out of the Church of Alexandria once whist he was Deacon as Sozomene reporteth in Lib. 1. Ecclesiast Historia Chap. 14. And though afterwards he got into the Church againe yet he was againe excommunicated when he was Presbyter and cast out of his Presbytery as Socrates reporteth in his lib. 1. Ecclesiast Hastoria Cap. 6. of the Greek Edition Chap. 3. of the latine So that Hierome complaining of the great hurt which the sparke of Arius did because he was not timely put out he did not meane of putting out of the Church which was done timely enough and twice for failing but because he was not put out either out of the world or at least out of the Confines of Neighbour Churches Say not yet Paul doubtlesse spake of putting out of the Church For though that be true yet now the Question is not of Pauls judgement in this place but of Hieromes judgement which the Author of the Letter alledgeth as a witnesse for himselfe and the Discusser would maintaine it though Ieromes words will not beare it It argueth men are more led by will then judgement to uphold a cause when the witnesses which themselves produce beare witnesse against them Neither let any man say That this graunt of his That Heresie must be cut off with the Sword of the spirit doth imply an absolute sufficiency in the Sword of the Spirit to cut it downe according to 2 Cor 10.4 5. For though Spirituall weapons be absolutely sufficient to the end for which God hath appointed them as hath been opened above to wit for the conviction and if he belong to God for the conversion of the offender for the mortifying of his flesh for the saying of his soule and for the cleansing of the Church from the fellowship of that guilt yet if an Hereticke still continue obstinate and persist in seducing creepe into Houses lead captive silly soules and destroy the faith of some it may be of many such Gangrenes would be cut off by another Sword which in the hand of the Magistrate is not borne in vaine Discusser But the eye of this Answerer could never be so obscured as to run to a Smiths shop for a Sword of Iron and steele to help the Sword of the Spirit if the Sunne of righteousnesse had once been pleased to shew him That a Nationall Church which elswhere he professeth against a State-Church whether explicite as in Old England or implicite as in New is not the Institution of the Lord Jesus Christ The Nationall Typicall-State-Church of the Jewes necessarily called for such weapons But the particular Churches of Christ in all parts of the world consisting of Jewes and Gentiles is powerfully able to defend it selfe and offend men and Divells although the State and Kingdome wherein the Churches be had neither carnall Sword nor Speare as once it was in the Nationall Church in the Land of Canaan 1 Sam. 13. Defender I should think mine eye were very obscure indeed if I should run to a Smiths shop to fetch the Authority of the civill Magistrate from thence or if I should thinke his Authority could not be put forth against all evill doers and amongst others against Hereticks without a Sword of Iron or Steele If their be stones in the streets the Magistrate need not fetch a Sword from the Smiths shop nor an Halter from the Ropers to punish an Heretick A pleasant wit can play with a feather of every flying Fancy and yet which is to be lamented bring in such light conceits into grave Discourses and Disputes about the holy things of God But two things let the Discusser understand 1. That the Lord through his grace hath opened mine eye many a yeare agoe to discerne that a Nationall Church is not the Institution of the Lord Jesus And himselfe confesseth that elswhere I have profest against such a Church State nor will he ever be able to make it good that the Church in New-England is implicitely any Nationall or State-Church 2. Let him understand further that I should thinke mine eye not onely obscured but the sight of it utterly put out if I should conceive as he doth That the Nationall Church State of the Jewes did necessarily call for such weapons to punish Hereticks more then the Congregationall State of particular Churches doth call for the same now in the dayes of the New-Testament For was not the Nationall Church of the Iewes as compleately furnished with spirituall Armour to defend it selfe and to offend men and Divells as the particular Churches of the New-Testament be Had they not power to convince false Prophets as Elijah did the Prophets of Baal Had they not power to seperate all evil doers from the fellowship of the Congregation what power have our particular Churches now which their Nationall Church wanted or what efficacy is their found in the exercise of our power which was wanting to them If it be said Their Nation was an holy Nation and an uncleane person might not live amongst them Ans It is true he might not enter into the Congregation with the rest of the Israelites to worship the Lord but he was permitted to live in the Common-wealth of Israel men uncercumcised both in heart and flesh It is therefore a Sophystical imagination of mans Braine to make a mans selfe or the world believe that the Nationall Church-State of the Iewes required a civill Sword whereas the particular Church-State of the Gospel needs no such help Why not I pray you Because particular Churches are powerfully able by the Sword of the Spirit to defend themselves and to offend men or Divells And was not the Nationall Church of Israel as powerfully able by the same Spirit to doe the same Surely it was both spoken and meant of the Nationall Church of the Iewes Not by might nor by power but by my Spirit saith the Lord of Hostes Zach. 4.6 And doth not the Discusser himselfe observe that time was in the Nationall Church of the Land of Canaan when there was neither carnall Speare nor Sword to be found 1 Sam. 13. And was not then the Nationall Church powerfully able by the Spirit of God to defend it selfe and to offend men and Divells aswell as particular Churches now CHAP. 69. A Reply to his Chap. 72. discussing the Testimony of Brentius Discusser BRentius upon 1 Cor. 3. saith no man hath power to make or give Lawes to Christians whereby to binde their Consciences For willingly freely and uncompelled with a ready desire and chearfull minde must those that come run unto Christ To this the Answerer returneth Brentius saith he speaketh not to your cause Wee willingly graunt you that man hath no power to binde Conscience but this hindereth not that men may see the Lawes of God observed which doe binde Conscience But the graunting this That men have no power to make Lawes to binde Conscience overthroweth such his Tenent and practise as restraine men from their worship
abounded in worldly blessings till the Lord Jesus came riding forth amongst them upon a White Horse of the Gospel of his Grace yet after they neglected so great Salvation then followed a Red Horse of Warre and a black Horse of Famine and a Pale Horse of Pestilence and other Judgements which much impeached both the health and wealth of that State and would have ruined it had it not cast away her Idolls and advanced the Scepter of the Lord Jesus Now the God of all Grace be pleased at length to shake the heart of this Discusser that he may not thus delight to seduce himselfe and others against the Light of Grace and Conscience against Reason and Experience Discusser Againe in the Answerers Joynt-confession with Luther that the Church doth not use the secular power to compell men to the Faith and Profession of the Truth he condemneth as before I have observed 1. His former implication that they may be compelled when they are convinced of the Truth of it Defender This implication where it was formerly observed it hath been formerly cleared from implication of Contradiction I have never said that after men be convinced of the Truth they may be compelled to the Profession of it by any penalties but onely by withdrawing such favours as are not comely or safe for faithlesse persons Discusser 2. He condemneth their owne Practise who suffer no man of any different Conscience and worship to live in their Jurisdiction unlesse he depart from the Exercise of his owne Religion and worship differing from that allowed of in their civill Estate yea and also actually submit to come to their Church Defender This charge of the Discusser let him consider if it be not contradictory to his owne Relation chap. 60. where he saith wee permit and tolerate the Indians in their Paganish worship which wee might restraine Yet here he saith we suffer no man of any different Conscience or worship to live in our Jurisdiction Neither is it true that we suffer no man of any different Conscience or worship to live in our Jurisdiction For not to speake of Presbyterians who doe not onely live amongst us but exercise their publick Ministry without disturbance there be Anabaptists and Antinomians tolerated to live not onely in our Jurisdictions but even in some of our Churches Yea saith the Discusser but they must actually submit to come to our Church I cannot say nor doe I beleive that any man is compelled to come to our Church against his Conscience Nay we are so farre from that and that the Discusser is not ignorant of that our Churches doe not expostulate with our Members who heare in England no not then when there was more difference from us in manner of worship then through the mercy of God now there is The which the Discusser himselfe hath declared to have been no little Offence unto himselfe Which maketh me the more to marvell that he should now charge it upon us that we compell all to come to heare in our Churches against their Consciences when he is wont to be offended that we suffer them to heare in any true Church though polluted according to their Consciences Discusser Howsoever they cover the matter with this varnish that none are compelled further unto their Churches then unto the hearing of the word unto which all men are bound yet it will appeare that Teaching and being taught in a Church Estate is a Church-worship as true-and proper a Church-worship as is the Supper of the Lord Acts 2.46 I cannot call to mind that either upon that colour or any other any man in this Country was ever compelled to heare the word of God in any of our Churches in this Country But there is indeed some colour for the varnish he speaketh of but not that which he pretendeth our compulsion of any man for to heare but a controversie with himselfe upon another occasion as I remember The Discusser sometimes endeavoured to draw away the Church of Salem whereof he was sometime Teacher from holding Communion with all the Churches in the Bay because wee tolerated our Members to heare the word in the Parishes of England Wee to satisfie him in that held forth that which here he calleth a varnish that hearing was a common Duty lying upon all men where the word of God was truly taught He replyed as he doth now that Teaching and hearing in a Church-Estate is Church worship Acts 2.46 To which we gave Answer as now againe That though Teaching and being taught in a Church-Estate be Church-worship according to Acts 2.46 yet it is not a Church-worship but to such as are in a Church-Estate To all it is an holy Ordinance of Gods worship and a Christian Duty And though Teaching and hearing doth imply a Relation yet not a Church-relation There is a relation between a Teacher and a Learner in any Art or Knowledge and there may be a nearer relation between a Preacher and an Hearer in case the Hearer be begotten to God by such a Sermon even the same relation as is between a spirituall Father and Sonne but this doth not amount to Church-relation and Communion till there passe some mutuall profession of Covenant explicit or implicit between them A Pagan Infidell may come into a Christian Church-Assembly to heare the word and may be convinced and converted by it as suppose he in Corinth 1 Corinthians 14.24 25. yet is he not therefore joyned in Church-Estate and Fellowship with them without profession of acknowledgement and acceptance Discusser Secondly all persons Papist and Protestant that are Conscientious have alwayes suffered upon this ground especially that they have refused to come to each others Church or meeting Defender It is too large an Hyperbole to affirme that all persons that are Conscientious whether Papist or Protestant have alwayes suffered upon this ground Are no men conscientious but such as have suffered upon this ground are there not many that were never put upon this Tryall and are not many conscientious that never scrupled this point and are there not many conscientious that have suffered upon other points that never suffered upon this point Besides though many conscientious Protestants and Papists doe refuse to heare in each others Assembly or Church it is not because such hearing doth implant them into their Church-State but out of feare to be leavened with their corrupt Doctrine or polluted with some other part of false worship CHAP. 71. A Reply to his Chap. 74. Touching the Testimony of the Papists against Persecution Discusser AS for the Testimony of the Popish Booke saith the Answerer wee veigh it not as knowing what ever they speake for toleration of Religion where themselves are under Hatches yet when themselves come to sit at Sterne they Judge and practise quite contrary as both their writings and judiciall proceedings have testified to the world these many yeares But for Answer to him though both their writings and practises have been such yet the
Common Prayer Booke which though they then seemed sandy to me yet since I have acknowledged to be rocky and have seene cause so to publish to the world in my Discourse to Mr. Ball against set formes of Prayer For a reply let me begin where he leaveth How ready he is to build upon sandy grounds may appeare by this very Passage where he maintaineth his rockinesse For here he avoucheth I have seene cause to publish to the world the rockinesse of his grounds in a Discourse to Mr. Ball against set Formes of Prayer What rocky ground doe you thinke this Assertion of his standeth upon I know no other but this He findeth such a Discourse published to the world and he thence concludeth for other Grounds he hath none that I published that Discourse and that I saw cause to publish it both which hang upon that ground like ropes of sand The truth is I did not publish that Discourse to the world much lesse did I see cause to publish it upon the Grounds he speaketh of A briefe Discourse in defence of set formes of Prayer was penned by Mr. Ball much briefer then that which since is put forth in Print That briefe Discourse a religious Knight sent over whether to my selfe or to a Gentleman of note then dwelling in my house I remember not but with desire to heare our judgement of it At his request I drew up a short Answer and sent one Copie of it to the Knight and another to Mr. Ball divers yeares agoe How it came in processe of time to be published to the world or by whom I doe not know And yet Mr. Williams doubteth not to affirme it that I published that Discourse to the world and saw cause to doe it Rocky spirits can expresse all their conceits in rocky firmnesse though upon sandy conjectures Besides when he saith That himselfe discovered to me and to other servants of God his grounds against our using of the Common Prayer which then seemed sandy to us but now in New-England I have acknowledged to be rocky in my Discourse to Mr. Ball. I could have wished he had expressed what grounds those were which he discovered to us For my selfe I can call to minde no such matter that ever I heard or received from him either by word or writing any solide grounds against that Practise But this I am sure of that the grounds of altering my judgement touching that practise did chiefly stand upon the exposition of the second Commandement which if I should say I received from him I should greatly feare my forehead were more rocky then his grounds were I thinke it no disgrace to change either my judgement or practise upon better grounds then I formerly discerned Nor would I thinke it a disgrace to learne any grounds of truth and to professe that I had learned them from himselfe if so I had done But sure I am it hath not been wont to be the manner of the servants of God to upbraid their Brethren with their Retractations of their former Aberrations I have read of the Churches of Judea that when they heard Paul now preached the Faith which once he destroyed they glorified God for him Gal. 1.23 24. but I never read that any of the Churches of Christ or any sincere member of the Churches did ever upbraid Paul for his former Persecution or for his present change The other part of the Chapter he spendeth in relating the grounds of the sentence of his Banishment and in the avouchment of his confidence of the firmenesse of them The grounds of the sentence of his Banishment some whereof He saith I am pleased to discusse in the Letter and others not to mention He saith were rightly summed up by one of the Magistrates after his publick Tryall and Answers Mr. Williams said that publick Person holdeth forth these foure particulars 1. That we have not our Land by Patent from the King but that the Natives are the true owners of it and that we ought to repent of such a receiving it by Patent 2. That it is not lawfull to call a wicked Person to sweare to pray as being actions of Gods worship 3. That it is not lawfull to heare any of the Ministers of the Parish-Assemblies in England 4. That the Civill Magistrates Power extends onely to the bodies and goods and outward state of men c. These particulars he hopeth that as he maintained the rockie strength of them to his own and other Consciences satisfaction So through the Lords assistance he shall be ready not onely to be bound and banished but to dye also in New-England as for most holy Truths of God in Christ Jesus It was not my intent in that Letter which he examineth to discusse the Grounds of his Civill Banishment at all neither did I discusse one or other of them And it is a preposterous shifting of the State of the Question to put it upon me to give account of the causes of his Banishment who neither did banish him nor provoked the Court to banish him out of the Countrey The Magistrates and Deputies of the Common-wealth who were then the Members of that Court are all of them of age and able themselves to give account of their own actions To them or some of them he should in reason have addressed himselfe for satisfaction in this case if any were due and not to me who am as seldome present at any Civill Court if not more seldome then any man of our calling in Towne or Countrey where the Courts are kept It were more then Aegyptian bondage to me and more then Pharaonicall tyranny in him to exact of me an account of all the capitall or notable sentences of Judgement which passe in all the Civill Courts of Justice in the Countrey unlesse I had a calling to sit amongst them But why did I then endeavour in my Letter to shew him the sandinesse of those grounds upon which he had banished himselfe c. If I did not meane to declare and discusse the causes of his Banishment He doth very well and wisely to expresse the Grounds upon which I said he banished himselfe with an c. For he knows that if he had related my whole sentence in my own words he had cut off himselfe from all opportunitie of pleading with me the causes of his Civill Banishment My words are plaine I endeavour to shew you the sandinesse of those grounds upon which you have banished your selfe from the fellowship of all the Churches in these Countreyes It is one thing to banish ones selfe or to be banished out of the fellowship of all the Churches in the Countrey another thing to banish ones selfe or to be banished out of the Countrey There be at this day that banish and separate themselves from all the Churches in the Countrey and yet are not banished out of the Countrey and there be that are banished out of the Countrey and yet are not banished out of the
is not locall remoovall from former pollution nor contrary practise that fitteth us for fellowship with Christ and his Church but that it is necessary also that we doe repent of such former Pollutions wherewith we have been defiled and enthralled 2. We grant further that it is necessary to Church-fellowship that we shou'd see and discerne all such pollutions as doe so farre enthrall us to Antichrist as to separate us from Christ But this we professe unto you that wherein we have reformed our practise therein we have endeavoured unfainedly to humble our soules for our former contrary walking If any through hypocrisie are wanting herein the hidden hypocrisie of some will not prejudice the sinceritie and faithfulnesse of others nor the Church-estate of all This though the Examiner doe rehearse it here in this Chapter yet here he answereth nothing to it though it be the very hinge of the Controversie If we meet with any Answer to it in the sequele we shall God willing consider of it in its place Onely let me adde this third thing to cleare the state of the controversie more fully That to this day we doe not see nor discerne that it is any Antichristian pollution at all for a member of any of our Churches going over into England to heare the word Preached by a well-gifted Minister in the Parish Assemblies TO CHAP. XI IN this Chapter the Examiner propoundeth a second third fourth and fifth Reason to prove that which I deny not to wit That a necessitie lyeth upon godly men before they can be fit matter for Church-fellowship truely to see and humbly to bewaile their spirituall bondage under Antichristian pollution and withall to obtaine some power and strength from Jesus Christ to bring them out of it This I say I deny not nor ever did But this necessitie I conceive to be Necessitas praecepti as they call it or officii as that which is the commandement of God and the duty of godly men to doe But not Necessitas medij ad finem such a necessitie as without which a godly person cannot be a member of the Church unlesse the spirituall bondage under Antichristian pollution doe so farre enthrall him to Antichrist as to separate him from Christ as he is the Head of the visible Church Which what it is we shall have fitter occasion to speake of in the sequele To his second Argument I would therefore Answer that as an holy Altar and Temple to God could not have been built to God in the midst of Babylon but the Builders must come locally out of Babel to build it in Hierusalem So a Church of Christ cannot be built to God but by such Builders as spiritually come out of Antichristian pollutions and inventions at least out of such pollutions as keepe them still in Babel and detaine them under Antichrist and separate them from Christ To his third Argument I would grant all that he saith in it to be true But how he applieth it to inferre his conclusion he neither expresseth nor is it easie for me to gather If his meaning be that Luther and other godly persons might not be received into Church-fellowship in those dayes because they saw not the bottomlesse gulfe of all those Antichristian corruptions which the Lord hath since discovered It is a conclusion that I durst not inferre nor will he be ever able to make good It is not alwayes full Moone in respect of spirituall light with every Church of God in all ages alike To his fourth Argument taken from my own Practise In that I doe not receive all Persons eminent for Grace and godlinesse forthwith to the fellowship of the Lords Supper till upon their entrance into Covenant with a Confession of faith c. I would answer it is not because I thinke such persons are not fit matter for Church estate but because they yet want a fit Forme requisite to Church-estate His last Argument is taken from a famous Passage as he calls it of a solemne Question put to me and to the other New-English Elders unto which I with the rest did answer Negatively That if godly persons coming over hither did refuse to submit to our way of worship and Government that then they could not onely not enjoy Church-fellowship together but not be permitted to breath and live in the same common ayre and Common-wealth together To which I answer 1. That it is suitable to his wonted boldnesse to affirme that of me which is more then he knoweth and indeed more then is truth For though he say that Mr. Cotton and the New English Elders returned that Answer yet the answer to that Question and to all the other thirty-two Questions were drawne up by Mr. Mader and neither drawne up nor sent by me nor for ought I know by the other Elders here though published by one of our Elders there Howsoever the substance of that Answer not which Mr. Williams rehearseth but which Mr. Mader returned doth generally suite with all our mindes as I conceive 2. In particular The Answer which our reverend and beloved brother Mr. Mader did returne unto that Question I have read it and did readily approve it as I doe the substance of all his Answers to be judicious and solide But this I must needs professe that his Answer to this Question is notoriously slandered and abused by the Examiner For 1. There is no word at all in that Answer that denieth permission to such godly persons to live and breath in the same ayre of the Common-wealth Let the Answer be perused It is too long for me to transcribe the Book is publiquely extant and obvious and see if there be a syllable sounding that way 2. In that Answer he distinguisheth out of Mr. Cartwright and Mr. Parker touching matters of Church Discipline and maketh some to be the substantiall and immutable others of a more accidentall and circumstantiall nature In the former he doubteth not but that we and all the godly Ministers in England should accord if they were here as beleeving that either we should satisfie them in our way or they us in theirs so as there would never be Question whether we should embrace one another as Sister-Churches In the latter to wit in matters circumstantiall we are all taught of God Placide ferre aliud sentientes 3. When the Examiner maketh it his own case not to be permitted to live and breath in the same ayre and Common-wealth though Mr. Cotton and others most incensed gave him a testimony of godlinesse c. Let him be pleased to look back to what hath been formerly laid open and he will finde this Instance of himselfe wholly impertinent For the casting of him out of the Common-wealth sprung not from his difference in matters of Church Discipline It was well knowne that whilest he lived at Salem he neither admitted nor permitted any Church-members but such as rejected all Communion with the Parish Assemblies so much as in hearing of the Word
the contrary may perswade a selfe-pleasing fancy but will not convince nor satissie any solid Judgement Might not the Israelites that came out of Aegypt borrow Jewells of silver and gold from the Aegyptians yea and carry up also a mixed multitude of People and yet build a Tabernacle to the Lord in the Wildernesse Exod. 12.35 to 38. Might not the Jewes come out of Babel and accept from all the People where they had sojourned vessells of silver and gold with goods and beasts and other precious things and yet build a Temple at Hierusalem Ezra 1.4 5 6. May not a soule be married to Christ and yet his former husband his corrupt nature not be so absolutely dead as the husband of a wife must be before shee can be lawfully married to another The Graft cut off from one tree may be engrafted to another and yet carry forth his old leaves with him The kingdome of Christ that is cut off from the Romane Monarchy may yet for a time have some entercourse with the Romane Monarchy The Corinthians though united with Christ and washed from their former Idolatry as well as from other sinnes yet still were defiled with communion in Idols Temples and with Fornication The Thessalonians turned from their former Idolls to serve the living and true God yet they had some amongst them that walked inordinately after their entrance into Church-estate as well as before 2 Thes 3.6 Besides for a further answer to his similitudes the Examiner may remember that though Israel came out of Egypt locally before they could sacrifice to God in the Wildernes yet in their hearts and soules they were still for Aegypt Exod. 14.11 12. Yea and for Aegyptian Idolls Act. 7.39 Ezek. 20.7 8. which is more then we doe allow to our selves TO CHAP. XIV HIs 14th Chapter is spent in Examining and answering a Reason that I gave of my second Answer to his Objection which was propounded and cleared in the former Chapter The Reason was this The Church of Christ received many thousand Jewes who beleeved on the Name of Christ although they were still zealous of the Law and saw not the beggarly emptinesse of Moses his Ceremonies Act. 21.20 And the Apostle Paul directeth the Romans to receive such unto them as were weake in the faith and saw not their liberty from the servile difference of Meats and Dayes but still lay under the bondage of the Law Yea he wished them to receive such upon this ground because Christ had received them Rom. 14.1 to 6. And lest it should be objected there was not the like danger of lying under bondage to Moses as to Antichrist It was said that even the bondage under Moses was such as that if it were continued in after instruction and conviction it would separate them from Christ Gal. 5.2 and bondage under Antichrist could doe no more For Answer hereto the Examiner would have two things to be carefully minded 1. That the Ordinances of Moses were sometimes the Ordinances of God and when they were to vanish they were to be taken away with solemnity The Ordinances of Antichrist were the Inventions of Satan and from first to last never to be received nor submitted to no not for a moment 2. He would have the difference of times to be observed which saith he Mr. Cotton himselfe confesseth after instruction and conviction Moses Law was deadly and would separate from Christ Therefore there was a time when they were not deadly and did not separate from Christ to wit untill Moses was honorably fallen asleep c. To apply then Paul observed a vow and the Ceremonies of it Circumcised Timothy c. May therefore a Messenger of Christ now as Paul goe to Masse Pray to Saints performe Pennance keepe Christmasse and other Popish Feasts and Fasts c. Reply 1. I never heard or read till now that Paul ever went to Masse Prayed to Saints kept Christmasse or the like nor did I ever imagine that any ingenuous minde would thinke that ever it came into my heart to plead for such things now or for the retaining of any Popish Rite at all But the wit and lip of man being let loose and left to it selfe may inferre quodlibet ex quolibet If it be said his Parenthesis as Paul had reference onely to a Messenger of Christ as Paul not to any such like act of Paul then his Argument is no more conclusive then a Baculo ad Angulum What colour were there that any man now should plead Pauls example to doe that now which Paul never did nor any thing like it Reply 2. The Examiner requireth two things here to be carefully minded In answer whereto I desire but one thing to be carefully minded to wit to what end I alledged the ignorance of the Jewes in the Primitive times and the indulgence of the Christian Churches for receiving them into Church-fellowship notwithstanding such ignorance And then see if it doe not inferre that which I brought it for If in the Primitive times the ignorance of the Jewes in many waighty Points of Religion and some of them fundamentall did not hinder their receiving into Christian Church-fellowship nor disanull their Church-estate who so received them then it is not so necessary to Church-fellowship as that without it a Church cannot be that the Members admitted thereunto should all of them see and expresly bewaile all the pollutions wherewith they have been defiled in their former Church-fellowship Ministery Worship Government c. But the former is true as hath been opened from Acts 21.20 Rom. 14.1 to 6. Gal. 5.2 To which may be added Acts 15.5 with 24. Where it appeareth some of the members of the Church and of the Synod held forth such Doctrine and Worship touching the necessitie of Circumcision and observation of the Law as tended to the subversion of soules and yet neither their membership nor the Estate of the Church was thereby disanulled The Conclusion is evident from these Premises It is a vaine thing now to alledge that the Ordinances of Moses were sometimes the Ordinances of God but so the inventions of Antichrist never were and there is not the like honourable respect and tendernesse to be shewed to the inventions of Antichrist as to the vanishing Ordinances of God For though this were of weight in case I had pleaded for the practise of any Antichristian inventions which indeed was farre off both from my meaning and words yet in this case it is wholly impertinent For that which I pleaded for was the capablenesse of godly Persons of Church-estate notwithstanding their ignorance of some weighty and necessary truths and the soundnesse of their Church-estate notwithstanding their admission and toleration of such ignorant members unto which the difference of the severall objects of their ignorance maketh nothing at all For the ignorance of weighty Truths of one sort as well as another necessary to salvation is a sinne of like destructive nature of what kinde soever the
Truths be Besides there is no need either for the clearing of our members or of our Church-estate to plead for the capablenesse of godly persons of Church-estate notwithstanding their ignorance of the Truths of God whether more or lesse necessary For wee doe not look at it as any point of ignorance at all for our members to believe they may partake in the gifts of the godly Ministers in England in hearing the word of God from them I know the Examiner is vehement and peremptory in pleading for an absolute necessitie that godly persons before they doe joyne to a true Church and Ministery should see and bewaile so much as may amount to cut off the soule from a false Church whether Nationall Parishionall or any other falsly constituted Church Ministery Worship and Government of it But the voyce of God is not alwayes in every vehement and mightie winde that rendeth mountaines and breaketh rockes 1 Kings 19.11 The Examiner is not ignorant that we have seene and bewailed Nationall and Parishionall Church-estate and have cut off our selves by the Grace of Christ from any invented worship or government of it yea and from such entrance into the Ministery or Administration of it as was corrupt either by Nationall or Parishionall Relation But this is that which he requireth further He I say but not the Lord that wee should cut off our selves from hearing the Ministery of the Parishes in England as being the Ministery of a Nationall or Parishionall Church whereof both the Church-estate is falsly constituted and all the Ministery Worship and Government thereof false also But two things here may suffice to answer this clamour 1. Suppose all this were true that he clamoureth but prooveth not yet this would I faine learne wherein lieth the sinne of our members in hearing the godly Ministers in the Parishes Why saith he in that they doe not cut off themselves from a false Ministery Now by the Ministery may be meant either the office of the Ministery or the exercise of the office and gifts of the Ministery From the office and from the exercise of the office our members have cut off themselves partly by submitting themselves to a Ministery of their own Election in these Churches and partly by submitting themselves to no act of their Ministeriall office in England but what an Indian or any Pagan might partake in who yet is cut off farre enough from fellowship in their office Cutting off is an act of disunion and somewhat more violent and keene then it may be the Examiner requireth The sinne he chargeth upon our members in hearing such Ministers is union or communion with them And what shall wee say is there no Communion between our members and the Ministers in England whom they doe heare Yes doubtlesse For 1. There is a naturall communion between the speaker and the hearer the one giveth counsell or instruction or reproofe or comfort and the other receiveth it 2. There is a morall Communion between a Teacher and a learner and doubtlesse our hearers may learne many precious Truths from them 3. What shall I say further Is there not also a spirituall Communion between the Preacher and the Hearer when the Preacher communicateth many spirituall and heavenly Points and the Hearer receiveth them Answ 1. Some would say It is not necessary that this should breed a spirituall Communion between the Preacher and the Hearer No more then it maketh a Mathematicall Communion between a reader of the Mathematicks and the learner of some Principles or Conclusions from him But 2. I would rather answer otherwise For suppose a member of our Churches though a visible Saint here yet indeed an hypocrite should occasionally heare a Minister in England and by the Power of the Spirit of Grace breathing in his Ministery be effectually brought home to Christ and by lively faith united to him Here is a spirituall Relation and Communion wrought between them the one is a spirituall Father the other a naturall Sonne in the Faith Neverthelesse this I would say that this spirituall Communion is not between this Hearer and this Minister in respect of his Office but in respect of his Gifts and of the Power of the Spirit of Grace breathing in the dispensation of his Gifts In which respect this Communion doth not amount to Church-communion Any stranger might enjoy as much Any Pagan Corinthian might come in and heare in the Church of Corinth 1 Cor. 14.24 25. and reape a blessing thereby who yet had not Ecclesiasticall Communion with their Office Also the Prophet Jeremy heard the false Prophet Hanani yea and in some sence said Amen to his Prophecy yet had he no communion with his false Office Jer. 28.1 to 6. If he still urge that we have not yet cut off our selves from communion no not with the false office of the Ministery of England and with their false Church-estate in as much as we still retaine their Baptisme wherein we subjected our selves to their Office and to their Church-estate which are both false as well as their Worship and their Government Answ This is a further Objection then he held forth whilest he continued with us and therefore no marvell if my Letter spake nothing to it But therefore let me now propound another Point which may suffice both for an Answer to this Objection as also for a second Answer unto the former clamour and exception against hearing of the godly Ministers in England The Point is this That I doe not see how the Examiner can justifie his grievous charge that their Church is falsly constituted whether Nationall or Parishionall and accordingly that their Ministery Worship and Government are all of them false Foure things he chargeth to be false 1. Their Church constitution Parishionall and Nationall 2. Their Ministers 3. Their Worship 4. Their Government For the first touching the constitution of their Parishionall Churches let it be considered what I said before that where there be visible Saints there is the true matter of the Church and where there is a Covenant or Agreement whether explicite or implicite to assemble together in one Congregation to worship the Lord and to edifie one another in the Ordinances of Christ there is for substance the true forme of a Church And where there is the true matter and true forme of a Church it cannot be truely said that such a Church is falsly constituted For there being but two causes of which a thing is constituted matter and forme whatsoever hath true matter and true forme is truly constituted Against this what he will accept I doe not know and therefore know not how to prevent him with a fit and just defence But by others two things are wont to be objected Object 1. From the matter of the Church Object 2. From the efficient cause of the Church From the matter of the Church it is objected that there be not onely visible Saints in the English Parishes but with them are mingled many
separation of holy from unholy penitent from impenitent godly from ungodly And that to frame any other building upon such grounds and foundations is no other then to raise the forme of a square house upon the keele of a Ship which will never prove a soule saving true Arke or Church of Christ Jesus according to the patterne Reply I cannot acknowledge what he saith that I have not duely considered that all the grounds and principles leading to oppose Bishops and Ceremonies c. doe necessarily conclude a separation of holy from unholy c. For I have considered and well weighed after my slender measure that they doe indeed conclude a three-fold separation of holy from unholy 1. Doctrinall that the Minister of Christ whilest he liveth amongst such dissolute and scandalous persons he is to separate them in the application of his doctrine between the holy and unholy between the precious and the vile so as to make sad the hearts of the wicked whom God would have to be made sad and to strengthen the heart and hands of the righteous whom God would have to be comforted Secondly A practicall separation in a mans own person that what a man findeth upon those grounds and principles to be unwarrantable and sinfull he doe forbeare the same in his own practise and disswade others from the same by his doctrine and example Thirdly An Ecclesiasticall separation that when a man cannot continue in fellowship with such a Church but that he shall be compelled to the practise of some sinne or of necessitie to communicate with the sinnes of others then after all good means used in vaine to redresse those evils meekly to separate and withdraw himselfe from fellowship with them in Church-Communion as one that cannot enjoy the good which is found amongst them without partaking in sundry evils that cleave to them Thus farre I have considered the grounds and Principles of Reformation of which the Examiner speaketh and doe finde that they doe necessarily conclude a separation of holy from unholy thus farre But I confesse I have not considered nor can I finde out by any further due consideration that the principles and grounds of Reformation doe necessarily conclude a separation from the English Churches as false Churches from their Ministery as a false Ministery from their worship as a false worship from all their professors as from no visible Saints Nor can I finde that they doe either necessarily or probably conclude a separation from hearing the word preached by godly Ministers in the Parish-Churches in England Nor can I finde that the building of our Churches in these ends of the world is the raising up of a square house upon the keele of a Ship unlesse it be the Arke of Noah for as the soules in the Arke were saved from water so we finde by experience and good evidence from the word that the Lord blesseth our Church-Communion and administrations with soule-saving efficacy through his grace in Christ Thirdly The third particular which the Examiner saith I have not duely considered is The multitudes of holy and faithfull men and women who have witnessed this truth from Queene Maries dayes by writing disputing and suffering farre above what the Non-conformists have done c. Reply This particular hath been considered above in Answer to Chapter 23. Fourthly The fourth particular which he desireth might be better considered Is our own practise and profession Our practise in constituting our Churches of none but godly persons and uniting them into a body by voluntary mutuall Covenant and adding none to them but persons carefully examined and approved and entering by way of confession both of their sinnes and of their faith Our practise also in suppressing other English who have attempted to set up a Congregation in a Parishionall way Our profession in the late Answer we gave to many worthy persons whom yet we account godly Ministers and people that we could not permit them to live in the same Common-wealth together with us if they should set up any other Church and Worship then what our selves practise Reply 1. Our practise in the constituting and ordering our own Churches here holdeth forth what matter and forme and order of the Church we doe beleeve to be most agreeable to the patterne set before us in the Gospel of Christ And our not receiving all commers unto the Communion of the Lords Table and other parts of Church-fellowship saving onely unto the publick hearing of the Word and presence at other duties it argueth indeed that such persons either thinke themselves unfit materialls for Church-fellowship and so they never offer themselves to us or else that we our selves conceive them to be as stones standing in need of a little more hewing and squaring before they be layed as living stones in the walls of the Lords house All which amounteth onely to this That we doe consider and bewaile the defects of the Churches of England in receiving ignorant and scandalous persons to all the liberties of the Lords Table and of his house as other wayes But it doth not at all argue neither is it our minde it should argue their Churches and worship and Ministery and members should all of them be separated from as false or none at all Our practise in suppressing such as have attempted to set up a Parishionall way I never heard of such a thing here to this day And if any such thing were done before my coming into the Countrey I do not thinke it was done by forcible compulsion but by rationall conviction But as for our profession that wee should answer many worthy Ministers and people in England that wee could not permit them to live in the same Common-wealth with us if they varied from us I have cleared it above in Answer to Chapt. 11. to be a notorious falshood and but that I know the Devill is able to create slander of nothing as God is able to create truths of nothing I should thinke it incredible that any man who hath been in New-England should be able to say as the Examiner here doth that we persecute the Parishes in New-England and yet frequent the Parishes in Old England Fiftly The fift particular which he thinks I have not duely considered is That in the Parishes which Mr Cotton holdeth but inventions of men how ever they would have liberty to frequent the worship of the Word yet they separate from the Sacraments And yet according to our own Principles there is as true Communion in the ministration of the Word as in the Seales What mystery saith he should be in this but that here to wit in Old England the Crosse of Christ may be avoyded if persons come to Church Reply 1. It is an untruth that Mr. Cotton holdeth the Parishes to be but inventions of men for though I hold that the receiving of all the Inhabitants in the Parish into the full fellowship of the Church and the admitting of them all unto the liberty of all