with naked persecuted truth in our Church as the Marques of Galeacia Mr. Smeton c. yea sundry have gone to Rome been converted by taking a distaste at their worship and way Fourthly Our run awayes runagads have to mourn before the Lord for their Apostacie seeing they cannot deny that the Ordinances in our Church have been by the Lords blessing instrumental to beget children to God This they must graunt unless they will say that all the reformed Church is unconverted which they have no confidence to averre Now how gross is it to spit in the face of her who did bear and foster them which I wish the Lord may lay to the consciences of such revolters But not to insist further I desire you in the fear of God to pause and consider well whether you are going to heaven or hell and by what rule you walk If the will of man or the revealed will of God have the power of your consciences or whether it be safer to take the scriptures way in which the Prophets and Apostles walked to heaven or the way of your own traditions and vaine inventions He who walketh according to the scripture rule peace and mercy shall be upon him and upon the Israell of God Reply In your last answer you say our Papists Reply pelf and policie is greater then yours both which I grant but glories in neither Yet if Ministers augmentations hold on they will shortly equal our pelf but not our Christian policit in employing it so well our glorious and goodly edifices of Churches Hospitals Monasteries dispersing and distributing their rents to pious uses But the thrusting down of Churches Hospitals Monasteries dispersing and dissipating their rents testifie your want of policy blind avarice mad passion Secondly You say we give indulgencies for looseness as if in Catholick times there had been greater looseness then since the Reformation Whereas the keeping of Lent and Fasting dayes were abolished Pennance and satisfaction for sin taken away Celibacie in Church men thought a crime Laicks allowed after divorcement to marry all good works thought impossible the Commandments thought impossible to be keeped and that men sin of necessity in their best actions which as it excuseth all wickedness and sin so it giveth way to all looseness and prophainness Thirdly You say many quit Rome in the integrity of their heart such as the Marquess of Galeacia and closed on their peril with naked truth in your Church To which I answer that all Hereticks and Schismaticks have quit Rome not in the integritie of their heart but in the blindness of their mind and that with their own peril eternal damnation closing with a very naked faith and Religion not well cloathed with the least colour of truth but not with naked faith or belief which Catholicks confidently and constantly assert what ever you say to the contrar And it is no where else to be found for they know there is but one faith and one GOD and one true Church Consequentlie united in the same faith in all which points as she was established by Christ and his Apostles hath continued since their time visible in her Pastours and People in all Ages holy and incorrupted in her Doctrine religious in her Sacraments and ceremonies powerful and glorious in her wonders and miracles conversion of Infidels in the which the holy Fathers have lived and all true Martyrs have died Which only all new upstarts and Sects do persecute and oppose as Protestants at this day under the pretence of Reformation and upon the same ground of wresting Scripture against the common consent of the Church and Fathers with them For as all divisions in Christianity have been from the Roman Catholick Church so all have turned both their armes and pennes chiefly against her but in vain she is builded on a rock against which the gates of hell shal not prevail against her And so who return from you to her are neither run-awayes nor run-agads as you call them but like the forlorn child or lost sheep return'd Whose example undoubtedly many more would follow if they would consider Faith without unity amongst Protestants a Church without a Head a Body without united Members a Law without a Judge a Temple without an Altar Religion without Sacrifice Divine service without Religious ceremonies Sacraments which do not sanctifie Doctrine without infallibility Belief without a ground Preachers without a call Commandments impossible to be keeped Exhortation to what is not in our power Reprobation without workes Reward without Merits Sin punished where there is no Free-will Scripture received or rejected upon the catalogue of the Jewes GODS word patched up by men Reformation without authority New-lights against old received veâ—iâ—ins the Privat-spirit against the whole Church single mens opinions against the unanimous consent of the Fathers in a word wavering Pastours unsetled Government unstable Faith In the post-script there be a parallel patched about our Reformations which being composed of the gall of bitterness without verity or reason deserveth no answer but that which Hezekiah commanded Is 36. 21. Duply You graunt that ye are rich and politick this is true there is much prophain Prote ∣ stants Duply 1 policie where Jesuited equivocation is mantained But tell me if this be like the Godly sinceritie and Gospell simplicitie which was the old Apostolick way and ground of their rejoicing 2. Cor. 1. 12. If ye exceed us in sumptuous buildings which politickly you mistake for the policie mentioned by me though your pelf be greater then ours we want not Hospitalls Bridges Temples according to our abilitie But what is that to the doctrine which is according to Godliness The Turks exceed you as farre that way as ye doe us And the Temple of Diana at Ephesus exceeded you and them also Secondly You deny that Poperie fostereth prophanness but it is too apparent and Duply 2. how can it be otherwise If indulgencies bought and sold like an horse in a market tend not ex natura operis in it self to make men loose and prophane let any sober man judge For thus may they reason shall I quite my lusts for a little money I know what will do the bussines and put me in favour with God Why should I pluck out my right eye and cut off my right hand when a little time in puâ—gatorie will do the turne and a soulemasse which I can have for the Legacie of a summe of money will free me thence But we with the scripture forbid men to deceive themselves for they who do such things shall not it herit the kingdom of heaven So with us nothing less will satisfie then Gospell repentance and the least ground of hope is not granted to those hereafter who turne not away hore from their iniquities How can this be denyed seeing your latest Casuists such as Escobar Busenbaius and Diana the Sicilian have purposly devised latitudes for rendring prophane men secure about Duells Sodomy and other acts of
Religion to reproach and stumbleth many The Iews are hindred to come in by their superstitious worship The Eastern Church which is the most ancient agreeing almost with us in all doctrinals as their Confession of Faith emitted by Cyrill the Patriarch of Constantinople testifieth is much offended at their Church dividing way We are vexed with their plots blots underminding courses They sowe cockle amongst our wheat and tares in our field while men sleepe Of all men on Earth in any visible incorporation pretending to Christianity they have made the greatest breach in the Catholick Church and taken the tittle to themselves contrar to all reason The Paganes perceiving our breaches are hardened in their blind way When their were not so great breaches in the Christian Church Chrysostom on the Galatians bringeth in the Gentile speaking thus Vellent fieri Christianus sed nescio cui adhaream multae sunt inter vos pugnae seditiones tumultus nescio quod dogma eligam quod praeseram singuli enim dicunt ego verum dico i. e. I would be a Christian but know not to whom I shal adhere there be such differences amongst you I know not what to choose what to preferre every one saith he hath the truth on his side For this we are derided by Iews and Gentiles and the Church of Christ is divided This obâ—â—â—tion may be soon solved by these who adhere to the Scripâ—â—re sensed by sound antiquitie But to them who are without it maketh a great muster and is a mountaine in the way which none have towred up more then the Romanists by craft and might they have stated a faction and fixed a Schism in the universal church Is it not high arrogance that a town in Italy and a pettie Prince there should make a monopolie and obtrude their ware pro arbitratu imperio sub poena anathematis upon all the Christians in the world what have we to do with an Italian Prince and who gave him right over us Albeit these rents made in the church by secular interests be matter of mourning yet there be a providence in it and this is permitted by the wisdom of GOD that these who are approven may be made manifest 1. Cor. 11. 19. Vt sides habendo tentationem habeat probationem as saith Tertull. contra Haeres cap. 1. Divina veritas calida oppositione agitatur ut adversus illos adversarios desendi possit considerari diligentius intelligi clarius praedâ—cari constantius ab adversariorum motis quaestionibus discendi existat occasio Divine truth is cunningly opposed that it may be defended more vigorously considered more attentively understood more clearly preached more instantly and that from the questions of adversaries we may have the more occasion of learning truth Saith Aug. de civit DEI. lib. 16. cap. 2. It is noted by Historians that in the tenth Centurie called the unhappie Age there were no Heresies started not opposed they were then asleep and cared neither for truth nor errour Setiousness about these matters was at that time suspended Yet it was infelix seculum it had been better for some that the tares had appeared and then trysted with speedie opposition Albeit evil be not good yet sometimes bonum est malum esse as Aug telleth us in his Enchiridion it is good that evil be qui bonus est non sineret maluÌ„ esse nisi omnipotens etiam de malo faceret bene He would not suffer evil to be if he being Omnipotent could not bring good out of it VVe are not therefore to cast away our confidence nor become despondent albeit Poperie encreaseth Papists way hold The only wise Lord knoweth why it is so how to order this broken condition for good VVhen they like the old Pagans at Rome who fathered Portenta Gnosticorum aliorum Haereticorum the absurdities of Gnostickes and other Hereticks upon the orthodoxe Christians as Church Historie telleth us blot our doctrine worship with all the reproaches which malice can devise who can tel but the holie providence of GOD may bring us out amongst the pots with our feathers like yellow gold And he who worketh manie of his workes by mean instruments may put such to it that his strength may be perfected in weakness I have contrar to my designe engaged into this debate and do acknowledge that I am a weak sinful man my inclination is averse from janglings and I have had more satisfaction in going about the work of my Calling in practicals of Religion nor ever I had in penning or publishing this debate But what could I do Adversaries invaded the flock pursued me within the ports when my back was at the wall and I had no purpose for warre stealed the sheep out of my bosome and averred considentlie that they were sed with rot-grasse in stead of wholsome food Should I not in this exigence defend with such weapons as the Lord would afford It may he said that the adversarie is stronge at home and abroad but the Lord on high is more mighty then the noise of many waters So farre as I am concerned I rather would choose to fall in the field nor turne my back or by sinful silence suffer the truth to be over-laid and stifled To some this may seem a light matter and needless worke yet if all be well understood it will not be found such The found of a testimonie for the truth in the case of subversion is an ominous duâ—ie if it were for no other end but this to leave a vvitness not to be involved in the shout Evetiâ— Minister of the Gospel is bound within his station to promove Gospel intorests to which Popery is highlie prejudicial to convince convert confute gain-sayers to confirme the weak and undeceive the simple I am much mistaken if this be superflous worke seeing it is one of the ends of our Calling It is to be râ—â—â—sited indeed that by debates for our just possession past prescriptioÌ„ we should be diverted from more comfortable and edifying worke seeing ordinarlie this way is so unsuccesful that few adversaries once engageing use to yeeld and will rather act their partes to defend one errour with another ne videantur â—rrasse nor with divine Aug make a retractation VVhich evidenceth much pride and unmortified self-love but very smal respect to the Gospel Yet cura officii iâ— ours and ourâ— evenâ—us belongeth to the Lord who will make a good account of all his affaires cause the fâ—ot of adversaries slidalin due 〈◊〉 Now Sir seeing I resolved upon these considerations to publish this Vindication following the custoÌ„ I have sheltered iâ— under the Patroâ—iny of your Name so much valued for ReligioÌ„ Vertue When HieroÌ„ wriâ—teth to Dardanus he calleth him Christianorum nobilissime nobilium Christianissime I will not make use of that compellation to you I know ye love not so well words to proclaim you good as those which may make you better It may be said
undoubtedly to believe for it is written We have a more sure word of Prophecie to the which ye do well to take heed as to a light shining in a darke place Besides we believe the authoritie thereof to be above the authority of the Church It is a farr different thing for the hâ—ly Ghost to speake and the tongue â—f man for the tongue of man may through ignorance erre deceive and be deceived but the Word of GOD neither deceieveth nor is deceived nor can erre but is alwayes infallible and sure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the best and greatest GOD hath predestinated his Elect unto glory before the beginning of the world without any respect unto their workes and that there was no other impulsive cause to this election but only the good will and mercy of GOD. In like manner before the world was made he hath rejected whom he would of which act of reprobation if you consider the absolute dealing of GOD his will is the cause but if ye look upon GODS orderly proceeding his justice is the cause for GOD is marciful and â—ust 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that one GOD in Trinity the Father Son and holy Ghost to be the Creator of all things visible and invisible Invisible things we call the Angels visible things the Heavens and all things under them And because the Creatour is good by nature he hath created all things good and cannot do any evil and if there be any evil it proceedeth from the Devil and man for it ought to be a certain rule to us that GOD is not the authour of evil neither can any sin by any just reason be imputed to him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that all things are governed by GODS Providence which we ought rather to adore then search into sith it is beyond our capacitie neither can we truely understand the reason of it from the things themselves in which matter we suppose it better to embrace silence in humilitie then to speak many things which do not edisie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the first man created by God fell in Paradise because neglecting the Commandment of GOD he yeelded to the deceitful counsel of the Serpent from thence sprung up Original sin to his posteritie so that no man is borne according to the flesh who doth not bear his burthen and feel the fruits of it in his life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Son of God our Lord Iesus Christ hath made himself of no account that is hath assumed mans nature into his own Subsistence that he was conceived by the Holy Ghost that he was made man in the womb of Mary alwayes a Virgin was born and suffered death was buried and glorified by his resurrection that he brought salvation and glorie to all Believers whom we look for to come to judge both quick and dead 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that our Lord Iesus Christ sitteth aâ— the right hand of his Father and there maketh intercession for us executing alone the office of a true and lawful Priest and Mediatour and from thence he hath a care of his people and governeth his Church adorning and enriching her with many blessings 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that without Faith no man can be saved but that we call Faith which in Christ Iesus justifieth which the life and death of our Lord Iesus Christ procured the Gospel published and without which no man can please GOD. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Church which it called Catholick containeth all true believers in Christ which being departed are in their Countrey in Heaven or living on earth are yet traveling in the way the Head of which Church because a mortal man by no means can be Iesus Christ is the Head alone and he holdeth the sterue of the Government of the Church in his own hand but because on earth there be particular visible Churches and in order every one of them hath one chief which chief is not properly to be called a head of that particular Church but improperly because he is the principal member therof 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Members of the Catholick Church be the Saints chosen unto eternal life from the number fellowship of who Hypocrits are excluded though in particular visible Churches Tares may be found amongst the Wheat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that the Church on earth in the way is sanctified and instructed by the Holy Ghost for he is the true Comforter whom Christ sendeth from the Father to teach the truth and to expel daâ—kness from the understanding of the Faithful For it is very certaine that the Church of GOD may erre â—â—king fâ—lshood for truth from which errour the light and doctrine of the holy Spirit alone fâ—eeth us not of mortal man although by Mediation of the labours of the Churches Ministers this may be done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We beleeve that a man is justifie by â—aiâ—h and not by workes but when we say by Faith we understand the correlative or object of Faith which is the righteousness of Christ which Faith apprehends and applyeth unto us for our salvation This may verily be and yet without any prejudice to good workes for Truth it self teacheth us that workes muâ—â— not be neglected that they be necessary means and testimonies of our Faith for confirmation of our calling but for workes to be sufficient for our salvation and to make a man so to appear before the Tribunal of Christ that of condignity or merit they conferre salvatioÌ„ humane frailty witnesseth to be false but the righteousness of Christ being applyed to the penitent doth onely justifie and save the Faithful 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that free-will iâ— dead in the unregenerate because they can do no good thing and whatsoever they do is sin but in the regenerate by the grace of the holy Spirit the will it excited and indeed worketh but not without the assistance of grace to effect that therefore which is good grace goeth before the will which will in the regenerated is wounded as he by the thieves that came from Ierusalem so that of himself without the help of grace he hath no power to do any thing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We believe that there be Evangelicall Sacraments in the Church which the Lord hath instituted in the Gospel and they be two we have no larger number of Sacraments because the Ordayner thereof delivered no more Further more we believe that they consist of the Word and the Element that they be seals of the promises of GOD and we doubt not but do conferre grace But that the Sacrament be intire and whole it is requisit that an earthly substance and an external action do concurre with the
Of 150. Bishops in the first Council of Constantinople anno 381. Where the Bishop of Constantinople is decreed to be the chief next the Bishop of Rome Thirdly Of 200. Bishops in the first council of Ephesus anno 431. where in the third action it is defined that saint Peter was the head and prince of the Apostles and that the power of binding and loosing is granted to him who in his successours liveth and exerciseth judgement unto this very day Fourthly Of 600. Bishops in the Chalcedon council in the year 451. where in the third action also Pope Leo is called universal Bishop Patriarch of old Rome and sentence is pronounced against Dioscorus in the name of Leo and sunt Peter to acknowledge Leo Peters successour The Fathers in particular I do not cite for their citations in this would make a volumn Only I engage that of a 100. there be 90. clear for this And not one against it Is not Popish faith resolved into a lie say you viz. the infallibility of Pope or Council You should have said Pope and Council putting tâ—em together as the head and chief members which represent the whole body of the Church As the Parliament doth the whole Kingdome and then if you doubt of their infallibility you deny the express words of Scripture which calleth the Church the ground and pillar of truth 1. Tim. 3. and which assureth us that the gates of hell shal not prevail against her Math. 16. 18. Yea you take away all possible means to know infalliblie what is true Scripture what is the true sense thereof which is to make us doubt of all and leave us no sufficient ground to believe undoubtedlie any thing You take away Christs promise to be with the Church to the end of the world Matth. 28. 20. Yea you take away an Article out of the Creed I believe in the holy Catholick Church and leaving men either to the dead letter of Scripture which killeth many or the privat spirit which deceiveth more or natural reason which can be a motive of faith to none you cast loose all Religion every one reâ—ecting or receiving Scripture as he pleaseth Expounding Scripture as he pleaseth and following in both no infallible rule or guide but his own opinion fancie imaginatioÌ„ In the fourth part you say that all the positives of the reformed Religion were mantained in the primitive Church the first 300. years But if this were true it would be made good no otherwise but by the Fathers writtings in the first three ages after Christ Now if they had all your positive tenets why do your learnedest writters openly disclaime them as I have shewed formerly Why saith Luther your Apostle lib. deserv arbitrio cap. 2. the authority of the Fathers is not to be reguarded and in his Collâ—q cap. de patribus In the writtings of Hierom there is not aword of true faith of Chrysostom I make no account Basil is of no worth he is wholly a Monk Cyprian is a weak Divine But I must not insist on this because you may in some measure deny the greatest parts of controverted points betwixt you and us to be positive tenets Albeit there be none of them but justly may be called so For you not only deny for example the real presence invocation of Saints use of Images that a man is justified by faith and works c. But ye positively believe that Christs Body and Blood is not reallie present in the Sacrament that to invocat the Saints is to give Gods worship to creatures that to make use of Images is idolatrie that a man is not justified by faith only Therefore I instance only two upon which all your visible reformation is grounded First That the whole visible Church may erre Secondly That we should believe nothing but what is in the written Word Now I have made it appear reflecting on your sixt answer that both these positive tenets are against the express wordes of Scripture and Fathers How then did the Church in the first 300. years hold all the positives and what you affirme As for your negatives and what you deny you grant they cannot be there because the controversies were not then stated But this is a bold and open calumnie for not one point is denyed by you but the Fathers in the first 300. years have clearlâ—e asserted And so the controversie betwixt you and us was sufficientlie stated even then You deny real presence and transubstantiation but in the second age Justin Martyr Apol. 2. ad Antonium saies as Jesus Christ incarnat had flesh and blood for our redemption so are we taught that the Eucharist is the flesh and blood of the same Jesus incarnat And in the third age Cyprian serm de coena Domini saith the bread which the Lord gave to his Disciples being changed not in shape but in nature by the omnipotencie of the Word is made flesh Secondlie Ye deny the sacrifice of the Masse asserted in the first age by St. Andrew in the book of his passion written by his Disciples I daily saith he sacrifice the immaculat Lamb to Almightie GOD who when he is truelie sacrificed and his flesh eaten remaineth intire and alive And in the third age by Origen hom 13. on Exod. Ye think your self guiltie and worthilie if any part of the consecrated Hoste be lost by your negligence Thirdlie Ye deny Purgatory asserted in the second age by Tertullian lib. de anima cap. 58 seeing we understand Matthews prison which the Apostle demonstrats to be places below and the least farthing is every smal fault delayed to be paied till the resurrection none will doubt but the soul will recompence something in places below And in the third Age It is one thing being cast into prison not to go out thence till he pay the uttermost farthing another presently to receive the reward of faith One thing to be affected with long pains for sins to be amended and have all sins purged with suffering sayeth Cyprian ep 52. ad Antonium Fourthly ye deny Prayer for the dead allowed in the first Age by S. Clemens ep 1. de sancto Petro where he saith Peter there taught to give almes and pray for the dead And in the same age by Tertul. lib. de cor militis we make yearly oblations for the dead Fifthly ye deny invocation of Saints and Angells recommended in the secong Age by S. Dennis Eccl. hierarch part 3. cap. 3. saying I constantly affirm with the divine scripture that the prayers of the saints are profitable for us in this life after this manner when a man is inflamed with a desire to invocat the saints and distrusting his own weakness betakes himself to any saint beseeching him to be the helper and petitioner to God for him he shall obtaine by that mean very great assistance And in the third Age Origen on the Lambent sayeth I le begin to fall on my knees and pray to all the saints to succour me
We are bound as Christians not only to bear the scourge of tongues but more also for the Gospels sake when called to it Augustin said to Petilian his tongue was not the fan I am a man in the floore of Christ and if good grain will be laid up in the Garner blow the wind as it will So we may say to such râ—ilers yea if the adversarie would write not only pasquils but a book of this kind we may bind it to our shoulders and wear it as our crown For the Lord will in due time wipe of the rebuke of his people Is 25. 8 which they bear for his Name That saying of Bernard is sweet Cimbae me comitto in tanto discrimine confidens in Domine qui pro illo recte lâ—quentibus pro illo laborautibus dicit Adsum 〈◊〉 run the reaâ—k trusting in the Lord who hath promised presence to all who speak and act rightlie for him And heroickly Luther to the same purpose if truth be on my side quidni pro viribus agam why should â—â—ot do my uttermost sim homicida sim adulter â—â—â—do silentii non arguar dum Christus patitur Let them call me what they wil if I be not guilty of sinful silence when Christ suffereth in his truth It is a very smal matter upon this account to be judged of men 1. Cor. 4. 3. these things are light and heavy as we ordinarily take them If this strain of reproaching did siste at us it were not so much but they reproach the written word of GOD and sentence it boldly of imperfection contrar to Psalm 19. 7. 2. Tim. 3. 15. 17. and of obscuritie as if it were not a light and lantherue to our paths Psalm 119. 105. Yea they shamelesly averre that the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome is greater to us nor Scripture Is it not lamentable that men called Christians for pompous selfish interests should laboriously studie to cast aspersions upon the unâ—ported word of GOD and depretiate it so in the world May not this render Popery suspicious to any knowing man that the abettors thereof decline the written word of GOD to be the sole umpire of faith and manners and endeavour to discredit it before the Nations which is the touch-stone of truth and best fence we have against Satan and all his complices such non sunt audiendi saith holy Aug. Confes lib. 6. cap. 5. they should not in this be heard far less obeyed Their second device when they are pressed with the truth is to coin evil grounded distinctions and with this ley money to make merchandise of poor simple souls Needle headed men have strangely acted their inventions herein and cruÌ„bled Gospel truths thus that he is now thought the best and most learned Papist who can findout subtile subterfugies and receptacles against plain Scripture verities So that the Romanists are the great foxes which eat up the tender vines Other Sectaries who separat themselves from the Church builded on the foundation Eph. 2. 20. and deface the doctrine which is according to Godliness are of lesser magnitude That ye may know what sort of proppes uphold their rotten building take these five instances First When we prove that the Scripture is the rule of faith this they grant in part but say they it is a partial not the total rule they must sowder somewhat of their own tradition to it erre they acknowledge it for a rule This is a reasonless shift If the rule be not total and perfect in its own kinde for its own ends it is no rule at all but a semi-rule regula nec appositionem nec ablationem admittit saith Theophilact on the 3. chap. to the Philip. Nothing can be added to or taken from a rule the law of nature the law of reason are sufficient for their own ends so is the written word of GOD for salvation When we say Secondly that the word of GOD cannot have authority from men therefore the Scripture is judge of the Church and not the Church of the Scripture They answer by a leaden distinction that it hath authority from the Church in respect of us but not in respect of it self This is a reasonless evasion for all authority is an act quoad extra and relative to us The Scriptures have excellency and dignity internal but all its authority is external and relative to men So that distinction is null If the Scripture hath its authority from the testimony of their Church then their faith must be ultimatly resolved into their Church testimony as more authoritative nor the word of GOD. Propter quod unumquodque est tale illud ipsum est magis tale Therefore Popish faith by this maxime is not divine but ecclesiastick and humane Now the Church and faith of Believers should be builded immediatly upon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles Iesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone Eph. 2. 20. Therefore the Pope with his traditions cannot found the Church nor the faith of Christians other foundation can no man lay then that which is laid 1. Cor. 3. 11. To this they returne a distinction that Iesus Christ is the principal and the Pope the secondary foundation seeing it was said to Peter upon this rock I will build my Church This subterfuge in like the rest if this was said to Peter personally as Tertul. de praescrip thinketh then not to his successours suppose the Pope were the man a personal individual prerogative is incoÌ„municable If it was not personal but to him and his successours then if the Apostle Paul were living the Pope behoved to be above him in dignity and Church prerogative by reason Peter was above him and he succeedeth to his superioritie This to any discerner may appear absurd Beside the Church is builded on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Eph. 2. 20. then not upon one Apostle take the words as ye will The true meaning of these words upon this rock I will build my Church is this the confession of Peter concerning Iesus Church the Son of the living GOD was a â—ock on which the Church was builded This interpretation is authorized by Augustin who interpreteth the words thus Tract ult in Iohan. serm 13. de verbis Apost he giveth also strong reason for it lib. 1. retract cap. 21. non enim dictum est Petro tu es petra sed tu es Petrus which reason Valentia challengeth in vain disp 1. to 3. quaest 1. punc 7. Further there câ—nnot be two foundations if we speak properly If no man can lay another as the Scripture speaketh why should it be asserted Christ Iesus alone set forth in the doctrine of Prophets and Apostles is that solid foundation on which we build all our salvation he is that sure foundation laid in Zion and no wayes can this without blasphemie be applyed to the Pope seeing the Apostle Peter maketh application of it to Christ only 1. Peter 2. 6. Thirdly When we
assert with the Scripture that Marriage is honourable amongst all therefore they should not forbid it Their answer is that all should not be taken here absolutely for then a brother might marry his sister but only of persons not prohibited and their votaries are such Is not this a fig-leaf covering Incest is forbidden by the law of GOD. But where are Church men forbidden by GOD to marry it is honourable among them saith the written word who can bind men to the contrar of that which the Lord hath permitted and commanded The evasion about the Sacrament of the Supper is of the same kind when it is objected that Christ said expresly of the Cup drink ye all of it By all say they is meaned all Priests but not all Christians Is this to be endured with patience to see men tear so the sense of Scripture with sophisms If all relate to them as Ministers of the Gospel then they should have the bread only and all privat Christians should be barred for he who said drink ye all of it said likewise to the same all take eat Fourthly When they are challenged of Superstition and Idolarrie by breach of the second Command here there is a distinction not lacking betwixt the worship called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 reserved for GOD and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which they avowedly say should be given to images Saints c. And this they father on Augustin But these two words are promiscuously taken in Scripture and both of them given to GOD as shal be proved in its proper place Papists give 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to Images Reliques and Cross of Christ Thus they confound themselves When Iohn the divine would have worshipped the Angel doth he not forbid him Rev 22. 9. and say worship GOD Belike he knew not this distinction Is it not called will worship Col 2. 23. Then it is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Neither doth Augustin make use of that distinction in the Popish sense he was farre from thinking that Religious worship should be tendered to Saint or Angel for he saith lib. de vera Relig. cap. ult Honorandi sunt propter imitationem non adorandi propter Religionem And epist 44. seâ—as inquit a Christianis â—ullum coli mortuorum He biddeth us praise the Martyres honour their memories follow their foot-steps sed DEVM Martyrum colite worship the GOD of Martyrs onlie This distinction then is groundless Is it not lamentable that men professing Christianitie should so hazard upon Idolatrie Superstition and will worship with a deceitful distinction which can neither satisfie reason nor conscience And dare any tender Christian think that such jugling work will be his peace in the day of distress and death What is this but a lie in the right hand Therefore let all who love and fear the Lord bewarre of that worship which standeth on such cogling distinctions Fifthly Their great refuge when they cannot mantain these absurdities is that we calumniat them mistate questions And if neither of these can serve then they alleadge that these are the opinions of some privat Doctors and not the judgement of their Church But in this vindication let all be assured that to my best uptaking nothing is fathered on this Adversary but what he saith directly or coÌ„sequentially nothing brought against him but that which is either literally or interpretatively in the written word of GOD or human Authours Albeit it he notoriously known that Papists uphold their tottering Babel by lies murthers treasons deluding wonders by corrupting mutilating foisting embezeling diverse testimonies divine and humaâ—â— as shal be made out hereafter yet we have not so learned Christ The truths of Christs Gospel need not such proppes and we are not allowed to lie for GOD. It is a meer evasion to cast over what they cannot make good on their privat Doctours For the decrees of the council of Trent to which now they profess adherence are purposly contrived in many particulars like the Delphian oracles and when they lurke under ambiguities what way shall they be found out but by their Doctours who are the expositors of their tenets Beside there be few or none of them cited whose books are not approven by Censurers appointed for that effect the tenour of whose testimonie is that such books contain nothing contrar to the Catholick faith of the Church of Rome Is not this equivalent to a Council statute Do they not impuâ—â—â—â—ur Doctours Calvine Luther c notwithstanding of 〈…〉 Confessions of faith whereof they cannot be ignorant They deal not only so with their own writters but also with the Fathers as some hard Masters use their servants if they â—lease their humours they will keep them if not they will dismisse them it may be with a stain betwixt termes Yea they deal worse with such testimonies as rellish nor their taste for they dispatch and gelde them also Their Monastries have not occasioned the murther of more infants nor their Golders by the index expurgatorius have the death of true testimonies which now being overlaid cannot see the light Shal not the GOD of truth make inquisition for these crimes in due time Surely he will arise and have mercy on Zion for some are yet living who take pleasure in her stones and favour the dust thereof Thirdly The third Engyne which thâ—se Engyneers use is the colour of antiquitie and pretence to closs walking and austerities The Church of Rome to which the Apostle Paul did write is indeed ancient whose faith was spoken of through all the world But Poperie as it is now dogmatised is a late invention plastered with antiquitie like the Gibeonites bread And so far from rendring men closs walkers that it is highlie prejudicial to Gospel interests For ex natura operis it turneth men loose and unfaithful to souls yea its pompous secular way is verie unsuitable to the simplicitie and self-denyal required in the Gospel this is soon proved The great pillar of the Romish Religion is the Popes pompous supremacie and infallibilitie In this saith Bell. prefat de Pontifice the summe of their Religion consisteth Consider Reader which of the Apostles did so empyre it Not Peter that he forbiddeth and calleth himself a fellow Elder 1. Peter 5. 1. Not any Church man for manie Centuries thereafter For Gregory who was Bishop of Rome anno 600. curseth the name of universal Bishop which Iohn Bishop of Constantinople usurped and saith epist lib. 4 Rex superbiae prope est he meaneth Anti. Christ Et sacerdotum ei praeparatur exercitus in this he prophecied truelie Estius in lib. 4. sent dist 47. being puzled with this testimonie saith that by universal Bishop Gregory meaned onlie sole Bishop who excluded others This is a meer forgerie for there were manie Bishops at that time in the Greek Church beside Iohn of Constantinople so he was not solus Episcopus But giving not granting this to be the sense of the
Ghost proceedeth from the Father and the Son is clear in Scripture Io. 14. 16. 17. Ioh. 15. 26. Io. 16. 7. Gal. 4. 6. Fourthly That there be two Natures in Christ is clear Io. 1. 14. The Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us And Augustin who refuteth Rebaptization mantained by Donatists maketh no use of unwritten Traditions against that errour but of that Scripture Eph. 4. 5. One Lord one Faith one Baptism for he sayeth reâ—urrantus ad fontem viz. Scripturas let us return to the Scriptures which are the fountain then citeh that text mentioned Tom. 7. lib. 5. cap. 26. and Ordination is expressed in that Tense which by vertue of the word excludeth Reiteration It being a matter of Order if it be once done according to the rule 1. Tim. 4. 14. it is enough neither should this be debated here for all that we assert is that all points necessar to salvation are comprehended in Scripture either expresly or cosequentially by general or particular precepts Perinde sunt ea quae ex Scriptuâ—is Colliguntur atque ea quae scribuntur saith Nazianzen †Naz. de Theol. orat 5. i. e. These things which by necessary consequence are deduced from Scripture are of the same force with these which are written in it Let the Reader judge whither Popery be a safe way which buildeth our main foundations upon humane testimonie and derogats so much from the Scriptures of GOD. Yea ere they will give them their due rather will they strengthen Anti-Trinitarians Arrians Anti-Sacramentarians Anti-Sabbatarians Donatists and Separatists The Lord grant repentance to such who leaving the truth have a massed a body of errors Thirdly For that amongst many Versions Pa. Red. 3 yea and corruptions of Scripture which all do acknowledge and each sect imputeth to its adversaries it seemeth very hard to discern authentick Scripture many of the originals being lost and the extract comming to the hands of very few and few understand the Hebrew and Greek tongues wherein they are written and yet of this first of all we must be understood and assured if we will not waver in matters of fâ—â—th Answer first This is a digression to another Pro. An. 1 question concerning the Version for I would ask if there be any right Version at all this will not be denyed for the old Latine translation is acknowledged by you then it is the rule of faith and no humane testimony What doth this arguing prove against the point there be some corrupted Versions Ergo the Original rightly translated must not determine my faith some men are evil cloathed therefore a man should not be well cloathed against the cold there is no consequence there Further this objection maketh the word of God useles to men Now is it like that all should be commanded to go to the Law and Testimony to search the Scriptures if they could not be had by any Yea this Objection spoileth Providence of its rent of praise which hath appeared so visibly in the preservation of the Scriptures And we bless his Name for it that we have the Originals in Hebrew and Greek and so pure a translaon that if any will compare them they wil find great faithfulnes and skill in the translators But to answer this impertinent Objection An. 2. more fully we say that the Version is a Commentary be way of interpretation and we make neither the translatioÌ„ of the 70. nor of the vulgar Latine authentick but wheÌ„ we find errours in either we go ad judicem incorâ—uptum hoc est primaevam linguam to the uncorrupted Judge that is the first language so much speaketh your Acosta lib. 2. cap. 10. and in this rightly But yee Romanists have preferred the vulgar Latine to the Hebrew and Greek whereas it is a corrupt translation as some of your own testifie and corrupteth the doctrine witness that one text for many Gen. 3. 15. Ipsa conteret caput tuum She shal break thy head which is contrar to the Hebrew hu to the 70 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and putteth the Virgin Mary for Christ so overturneth a foundation Pagâ—â—n in his Preface to the Hebrew Grammar saith Optarem ut ostenderent mihi Germanam translationem quae enim pâ—ssim legitur non est Hieronymi incorrupta translatio i. e. I wish they would shew me the Genuin translation for that which is coÌ„monly received is not Hieroms pure translation and Sixtus Senensis Bib. lib. 8. sub finem sayeth Multa ibi sunt parum accommodate versa There are many things in it not fitly rendered so that our Version will be found as good as any And we are not hindered to run to the fountains in case of doubting we make use of these streams as helps and the Version is an humane instrument leading us to the well-head of the Original tongues Dei verbum non est linguased doctrina The word of GOD is not the language but the doctrine saith Rivet in his Isag cap. 1. and we need Grammar more then Tradition for understanding thereof Reason fourth Many cannot read Scripture and more as yet do not understand it the Pa. Rea. 4 Scripture then or written word cannot be the Rule of Faith to these poor ignorants but their Churches or Pastors authority And so it seemeth the Scripture cannot be the rule of faith to all persons or in all points or of any point contained in it self untill I be first assured of some infallible rule that this translation I rely upon is conform to the original in all points and this Bible I am reading is the authentick word of God Answer First This maketh nothing against Pro. An. 1 our assertion wherein it is only said that the Scripture is the rule of faith to a right discerner which is granted by the Arguer in the next reason It is Regula regulativa to all apt and meet to decide all controversies if men have ears to hear what the Spirit saith to the Churches if it be not Regula regulans to some who are ignorant and unstable Vitium ost in Organo the fault is in the Organ It is ill argued to say the Sun shineth not because blind men see it not Secondly They who cannot read the Scriptures An. 2. can hear them read and it is more easie for dark ignorant ones to hear the word read and explained in their own language then to travel from Scotland to Rome to hear the sentence of the Pope for they could not understand the language in which it is delivered they cannot travel through their decretals and acts They know not if it be a lawful Pope who pronounceth the sentence And by their Confessours here they may be and are deceived Thirdly It is the priviledge and promise An. 3. of God to open the heart to enlighten the eyes by the word read and preached but no where hath the word of man this prerogative See Is 32. 3. 4. and Is 35. 5. 6. 7. 8. These are Gospel
prophecies The Roman Trash may well make seeing men blind but will never make blind men see the right way Fourthly We do not deny ministeriall An. 4. helps to unlettered people for such are commanded Heb. 13. 7. and 17. provided alwayes their faith be resolved into the word of God at least interpretative virtualiter What ever means be used this milk of the Word is the authentick instrument which begetteth faith and it must be received not as the word of man albeit the treasure be in earthen vessels and the milk in a wooden pape The difference of assent betwixt the learned and the unlearned is only accidental and modal the one being more express then the other we Catechise and instruct the ignorant and require them to hear the Church and follow their guides so far as they follow Christ 1. Cor. 11. 1. we hold forth coâ—munia fidei motiva interna 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inward testimonies the common motives of faith reasons and testimonies of old and late and what ever may help their edification but we dare not lead them from the Scripture to men neither will the interpretation of the Scripture permit us to admit of an other determiner And it may be wel enough known by them who understand these languages that these Greek and Hebrew words do thus signifie as they are translated without the help of an infallible decree of Pope or Council thereanent Without this also GODS word can discover it self to be from GOD as hath been shewed already Reason 5. Reading of the Scripture with the privat spirit and taking it up as every one Pa. Rea. 5 thinketh maketh all the controversies in Christendom daily multiplying both Heresies and sects Luther no sooner swerved from the Church and denyed her authority but as soon he broached this principle That every man might take the Bible follow that interpretation which after due diligence used he thought best whereupon preseÌ„tly did spring up an incredible number of different sects Antimonâ—ans Osiandrians Majorists Synergists c. Now hear what Luther himself said of Calvins heresie Tom. 7. fol. 380. I scarce ever read saith he of a more deformed heresie which presently in the beginning was divided into such variety of sects as so many Toads and such disagreement of opinions not one like to another You see then how the word cannot be the determiner of faith which all these sects take with you for their rule yet alone will never agree â—hem As for that you say the scripture hath Divine authority Heavenly majestie and maketh Spiritual impressions on the soul all this I grant if once a man know or believe it to be the word of GOD. Answer First All this is answered to the fourth or fifth question and should not be Pro. An. 1 brought in here yet passing the digression and informality which I hope the Reader cannot impute to me the Defender I answer to the 5. Reason the Scriptures in the Primitive Church were published â—o all this your own Azâ—â—iâ—s confesseth Iust mor. p. 1. lib 8. c. 26. â—he Scriptures in the Primitive Church were to be published throughout all Nations and therefore made common in the most famouâ— languages In Hierom and Chrysostoms dayes the ley people were exercised in reading the Scriptures Espencaeus saith Comment on Tit. 3. 2. it is manifest by the Apostles doctrine Col. 3. 16. and by the practise of the Church that the publies use of reading the scriptures was then permitted to the people The Council of Nice decreed saith Agrippa that no Chriâ—tian shoulâ—â—e without a Bible Augustin alloweth de Doct. Christi the use of scriptures to all for he saith they are not so hard but every one by his use making of them may attain to so much knowledge of them as may further him in his salvation Chrysost hom 3. de Lizaro exhorts all men and women yea Tradsmen to get Bibles Now I pray you to what purpose if they dare not search for the sense of them Secondly It is denyed that when privat Pro. An. 2 men search the Scriptures this is an act of a privat spirit †It may be privat respectupersonae which is publick rationâ— modi medii è contra for such may pray and have the spirit of grace and supplication poured forth on them according to the promise Zach. 12. 10. and none call that a privat spirit so they may interpret Scripture by Scripture and have the gift of it Hear your own Gerson primâ— part de ex doct Si aliquis non authorizatus sit excellenter in sacra scriptura eruditus plus credendum est ejus assertioni quam Papae declarationi i. e. If any not ordained be well instructed in the holy Scriptures his assertion is more to be believed then the Popes declaration Secondly Our Divines distinguish well three sorts of interpreters the first is extraordinar and miraculous 1. Cor. 12. 30. The second is ordinar and ministerial 1. Cor. 14. 32. The spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets The third is of privat persons who are commanded to â—ry the spirits and are commended for so â—â—ing Aâ—t 8. 28. 29. Aâ—t 17. 11. The first kynd of interpretation is gone the two next are in use as yet but the one is subservient to the other Thirdly â—he different sects that lay claim to Scripture cannot deprive us of the priviledge to search it and make use of it Will any man approve this argument Meat and drink is abused by some therefore none should eat or drink If the matter be indifferent and subject to abuse then we are to restrain our selves of liberty in the use of that in different thing Vâ—tandum estlicituÌ„ non necessâ—riuÌ„ propter vicinitatem illiâ—â—ti Aug. de câ—v Dei lib. 15. But when it is necessar necessitate precepti medii by necessity of precept and mean who can forbid the use of a necessar mean Now it is most necessar to improve the Scriptures by reading understanding application meditation and blessed is he who doth so day and night sitting or standing Deâ—t 6. 6. It is absurd to say â—lbeit Luther and Calvin did differ in some points that he fathered the sects of Germany on Calvin who was as free of Munster malady as the man unborn and was malleus haereticorum as his learned writtings testifie aboundantly In that place cited he speaketh of the swarms of sects which were indeed monstrous like at that time but never imputed it to the use making of Scripture for then he would not have understood himself nor could he blame Calvin for it upon that account seeing it was his own tenet Now Reader stay and impartially consider the weaknes and impertinency of these 5 reasons why our faith should not be resolved into the Scriptures and determined by them For the sume of all is thus concluded The word of GOD is not wel understood by some is evil translated by others and
seem to me against our oath of supremacie not to acknowledge any other judge in matters of controversie then scripture Seeing there his Majestie is said to be and we sworn to acknowledge him supream judge in all cases as well Civil as Eclesiastick and I pray God that Preachers and Ministers to whom only you ascribe the power of herauldry had not taken on the coat of arms these years bygon to publish any other sentence then that which did proceed from the mouth of that supream judge Answer first The Scripture we call a rule Pro. An. because it maketh the man of GOD perfect 2. Tim. 3. 16. as a rule doth a line and the Duply 1. doctrine therein is termed a judge Metonymically properly a judge is a person because it is the voice of a supreame judge who is our law-giver This we speak with the Scripture Io. 12. 48. Io. 7. 51. and Heb. 4. 13. It is the descerner of the thoughts of the heart Where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is given to it You grant here that it is our law book Ergo Metonymically our judge and determiner it must be for we appeal to the law for judgement To this the Apostle Paul appealeth Act. 26. 22. Then there be many cases incident to a Christian in his spiritual exercise which none on earth can judge The spiritual one is judged of no mam 1. Cor. 2. 15. yet this will discern the thoughts of his heart The divine doctrine now written is the only impartial infallible determiner he who heareth not Moses the Prophets and the Apostles will not hear one risen from the dead Conscience is a rule Rom. 2. 14. a witness Rom. 2. 15. and a judge 1. Io. 3. 20. 21. It is to be considered that there is a difference betwixt humane Courts and this work the one concerneth temporals wherein we may be ruled by reason but here in matters of salvation we must have an infallible rule by revelation albeit in humane Courts the rule the witness and the judge are different for guarding against corruption to which fallen man is subject yet in foro divino in the court of GOD one may be witness judge rule accuser such is the scripture The Spirit of GOD speaketh there Is it not the law the testimony the canon or rule Gal. 6. 16. is it not a witnesser a warner Ps 19. 11. doth it not speak to men Rom. 9. 17. and will it not judge us hereafter The word which I speak to you will judge you in the last day Io. 12. 48. if then why now is it not our judge Further the judgement of discretion is but a discretive faculty no proper bench and liker a watch then a judge for it hath no authority over others the Ministerial authority is subordinâ—t and more like the office of a steward nor of a proper judge 2. Cor. 1. 24. Only the written word is the determiner and the Lord speaking there is absolute supreame judge from whom there is no appealing Answer second If the second be as good as the first it is well for notwithstanding of all Pro. An. 2 your weapon-shews you yeeld in the end what I said that we should go to the law and testimony with all our cases and that the scripture to any believer and right discerner hath divine authority Heavenly majestie and maketh spiritual impressions on the soul If it have divine authority is it not judge was there any more asserted in the first answer we hold the same similitude the King is head of Council and Session the law ratified by King and Parliament is the rule and the officers of Council and Session are administrators So our Lord Jesus is the head of his Church the written Word is the law and the Ministers of the Gospel are administrators by whom the people are directed and instructed But if the officers go contrar to the will of the King and his law the subjects may appeal from their administration to the acts of Parliament and hear the Kings pleasure when subjects wrong their inferiours and neighbours See Ps 85. 8. Hear what the Lord will say and who hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit sayeth to the Churches Answer third Ministers of the Gospel are called Messengers Rev. 2. 2. Cor. 8. 23. So Pro. An. 3 were they termed under the law Mal. 2. 7. and doth not the Greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 oft used for Preacher in the N. T. signify a cryer or herauld Why then do you scoff at Scripture As for your prayer it seemeth you pray all by the book and here you are beside it present or future things are the object of prayer but that factum should be infectum to pray that a thing done should be undone is an unwarrantable petition what hath been wrong in us heretofore should be regrated what is or hath been right is the object of praise but your prayer is unwarrantable and impossible Answer fourth Albeit our Soveraign Lord Pro. An. 4 the Kings Majestie be supream magistrat according to the Scripture 1. Pet. 2. 13. and ex officio a nursing father to the Church Is 49. 23. to whom every man civil or Ecclesiastick doth owe subjection Rom. 13. 1. Yet it will not follow that the word of GOD is not the supream determiner of all controversies in Religion Whatsoever primitive Fathers gave to Constantine the great Theodosius elder and younger c. that we give to our Soveraign Lord the King And there be no Church on earth which by their confessions of faith honour the Magistrat more then we Yet notwithstanding of this prerogative asserted and mantained against Papists by our †Viz. Bp. Bilson de Subject Usher Dr. Strang. Divines Our Soveraigne Lord the Kings Majestie will not deny that the scripture is the determiner of all the Articles of our faith seeing he mantaineth the 39. Articles of the Church of England whereof this is one Answer fifth How cometh it to pass that Pro. An. 5 you own the oath of supremacie By calling it ours seeing the main scop of that oath was to renounce the Pope his jurisdiction in the Kings dominions you must either have a dispensation for this that you here subscribe a renunciation of the Popes supremacie or else you will be declared apostar at Rome And no Papist keeping his principles can averre that wich is here set down under your hand Question third If the Scripture be judge why be there so many controversies undecyded Pa. Qu. Answer The perverseness of men is to blame for this Unstable unlearned ones wrest the Scripture to their own perdition Pro. An. 2. Pet. 3. 16. and make difficulties where there be none As much as containeth the way to salvation is plain in Scripture so that he who runneth may read and learn Reply In your third answer you please me Pap. Reply well and it confirmeth all I have said but refuteth your former answer to the full For if the
directly answered by me whither on man or many should be judge of controversies To this he saith I dare not answer because I will not grant the power either to the high Bishop or general council nevertheless he findeth this to have been the constant practise of the Church both in the Old and New Testament established by the express word of God and received by the Fathers in all ages for in the Old Testament from Deut. 17. from 8. to 13. we read that GOD did command the people in matters of controversie to go to the Priests Levits and judge who should be in those days appointed by him for that end saying and thou shalt do according to the sense of the law which they shal teach thee and according to the judgement which they shal tell thee Remark he saith not according to the sense of the law which thou shalt read but which they shal teach thee not taken according to the privat judgement and spirit but according to the judgmeÌ„t which they shal tel thee where God promiseth out of their mouth judicii veritateÌ„ truth and verity in judgement or as you turn it sentence of judgement See for this also 2. Chr. 19. 8. where Jehosophat established what was first instituted Viz. a council of Levits Priests and chief fathers of Israel to judge not only between brethren and brethren blood and blood but also betwixt law and coÌ„mandments statutes and judgements Not leaving law and commandments to the peoples privat reading and interpretation as you do in your rule of faith In the 11. verse he concludeth thus Amaziah is over you in all matters of the Lord where it is evident that the council and chief Priest is established judge of controversie and not the written Word as every one readeth and expoundeth In the New Testament again you have this practise clearly set down Acts. 15. Where Paul and Barnabas though Apostles themselves go up to Jerusalem about the question of circumcising the Gentiles converted to the faith And there was holden the first council in which this is decided not out of Scripture but by the authority of the Council it self It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us said they having the assured promise of the assistance of the Holy Ghost as the Church hath at all time Wherefore after the Apostles councils have decided with the same authority and upon the same infallible ground of the Holy Ghosts assistance promised to the Church Many controversies are acknowledged by Protestants for points of faith without express passage of Scripture Marcion teaching that Baptism should be conferred more then once and Donatists that Baptism conferred by Hereticks should be reiterated as invalid are condemned in the council holden at Rome under Melchiadâ—s Pope in the year 313. now what passage of Scripture I pray you is for this Sâ—bellius putting one person only in the God-head is câ—ndemned in the council of Alexandria under Pope Cornelius in the year 319. but scripture maketh no mention of persons Nestorius putting two persons in Christ is condemned in the Generall Council holden at Ephesus under Pope Caelestin the year 434. Yet neither doth the Scripture speak of thâ—â— The Monotheliâ—s giving to Christ one will in two Natures are condemned in the third general Câ—uncil holden at Constantinople under Pope Agathon the year 679. albeit there be no formal scripture for this So you see it belongeth both in the Old and New Testament to the high Priest and general Council to decide controversie either by Scripture if there be any passage clear for that point or without Scripture by Apostolick tradition conserved in the Church which scripture it self warranteth 2. Thess 2. 15. Hold fast the traditions which ye have learned either by word or our epistle but it seemeth you care not who be condemned or by whom if you take away all power on earth to condemne your selves Every Protestant will be condemned by none but Scripture and yet will make none judge of the Canon Version and sense of Scripture but himself All your answer is that we grant the Promulgation of the law to the pure Gospel Church but you shew not what is this pure Gospel Church neither can you infallibly prove the purity of the Gospel it self or that there is a Gospel or the true sense of the Gospel but by the Catholick Church her authority Hear Aug. contta Ep. fund cap. 5. Where he saith I my self would not have believed the Gospel were it not that the authority of the Church moved me to it Now the Catholick Church is that whose faith is spread through all the world in the Apostle Paul his time which maketh her to be justlie called the Catholick Roman Church and whose faith hath been in all ages since Christ which all the records of the Protestant writters witness of the Roman Church wherein the succession of Popes Bishops Councils is made conspicuous to all who have written Chronology or Church history in every age none whereof make mention of your Church or of men professing your tenets before Luther and Calvin from whom ye dissent in many things Answer first This is a prolix reply the Pro. Du. 1 substance of which might have been taken up in seven or eight lines As it is spacious so it is an impertinent rapsodie and like a beggers cloak clouted here and there with divers parcells without any method or cohesion It seemeth to have been taken out of some Index and cast in here to fill the page For the answer was That the promulgation of the law is not denyed to the pure Gospell-Church which is not the Roman-Church for it is impure Is not this a direct answer You prove that there hath been a Ministerial-Church in the old and new Testament which we doe not deny but this is the point did they so pronounce sentence and decide Controversies that all discretive judgement was taken from people or called they themselves infallible whether they had scripture warrand or not Or wil the promise of presence to the Apostles Prophets and penners of Scripture in measure and duration agree to any Church Officers now on Earth Or should promises made to the Universal-Church agree to any particular Church such as Rome Or will promises made to the collective body of the Church agree to the representative unless these be proved you fight with your own shadow For we are much for the authority of Christs Church and think that her judgment of old and late should sway privat men unless they can prove by scripture or sound reason that she erreth We are much for the authority of all lawful Councils and we give them all reverence in regard of the authority of their constitution but if they depart from the scriptures we owe them not active obedience Well speaketh our learned Camero tom 1. tract de infallibilitate ecclesiae So oft as any thing is decreed by a Council or assembly of men appointed by lawfull autharity
in the Church it should have this weight with us that rashly without grave and diligent enquiry after the truth it should not be rejected by us And whereas it is alleadged there will be no effectual way against Controversies and divisions in religion unlesse some one supream and infallible judge be appointed on Earth in whose â—udgement and decision parties controverting should â—â—st and acquiesce It may be well answered in your own Bellarmin his wordes lib. 2. de Concil cap. 19. It is no wonder if the Church remaine without any humane remedy seeing the welfare of it doth not primarily rely upon humane industrie but upon divine protection seeing its King is GOD therefore may and ought the Church to pray unto God and it is certaine he will care for the well-fare of it Answer second Albeit I cannot comprehend the purpose of this laxe discourse yet Pro. Duply 2 for satisfaction to the Reader I shal inform him in these 5. particulars First what Papists mean by the Church or whither they understand themselves in this Secondly Whither Church officers since the dayes of the Apostles are infallible Thirdly What kind of obedience should be tendered to them Fourthly What government the Christian Church should have whither Papal and Monarchical or Aristocratical and Ministerial Fifthly How that testimony of Augustia non credidissem Scripturae c. is to be understood For the first by the Church all the Jesuits who are the Popes life-guard understand the Pope So Valentia disk Theol. tom 1. disp 1. qu. 1. Coster Enchir de sum Pont Gretser Colloq Ratis Ses 1. Bell. hanketeth in the point for once he saith that the Pope without the Council may determine matters of faith De Christo. lib. 2. cap. 28. and de Concil lib. 2. cap. 17. Against this de verbo Dei lib. 3. cap. 3. he saith the Pope with a Council is the judge of the true sense of Scripture So speaketh this reflecter The Sorbonists Jansenists and others of the Popish partie understand by the Church the present Romish officers assisted by the Pope and stand by the Canons of the Councils of Constance Sess 4. 5. and Basil Sess 2. wherein it was decreed that the Pope should obey the Council The Council of Trent according to its manner is ambiguous herein Sess 4. decr 2. And saith that the Church should judge the true sense of Scripture yet tell us not what they mean by the Church Now whatever way it be taken whither for Pope or Council there must be another judge of controversies otherwise the Church wanted a judge 300 years for there was no such judge then pretending to the infallible supremacie now claimed Secondly The Romish Synagogue headed by the Pope cannot be our judge for they are party partial against whom we have just acception Thirdly Is not this a jugling trick that when controversies occasioned and raised by them are in the Christian Church they will have none to be judge but themselves so they would be sure of the sentence and must suspect their own cause Fourthly If by the Church they mean the Pope as now they mantain it is hard to call him judge of controversies seeing it is a great controversie whither there should be any Pope at all and beyond controversie with us that he is an usurper Fifthly According to the Popish tenet the intention of the Priest is necessar in his ordination in his Baptism succession without interruption is necessar and Simony maketh him no Pope as Gratian telleth from the Canon law causa 2. qu. 1. Now if so he may be a Pagan for who knoweth the Priests intention who baptized him He may be a Laick and yet without ordination upon the same ground if one be such it marreth uninterrupted succession and so ceaseth the Pope Then by your own writters it is clear that many Popes entered by Simony as Barronius testifieth Annal tom 9. ad annum Christi 912. And Alexander the 6. was notorious that way This un Popeth all for it breaketh the chain of succession and leaveth the Church collective without any judge It is clear hence how slipperie the Romish Church is in its foundations seeing he whom they call the Church may be a Pagan Secondly As to the second thing proposed viz. Whither Church officers since the days of the Apostles are infallible The Church whither taken for Pope or Council or Pope Council is not infallible When the Councils condemned hereticks of old they did it not pro arbitratu imperio but judged by the Scriptures which is indeed an infallible rule but the church taken whither for Pope or Council or Pope and Council is not infallible First If the jewish-Jewish-church erred in matter of faith and worship then may the christian-church erre also For they had statutes judgements and promises to them were committed the oracles of GOD. Rom. 3. 2. But Aaron and the people erred grosly Ex 32. So did Uriah the Priest 2. Kings 16. May not then Popes erre Seeing Aaron the saint of the Lord was not infallible Yea both Priest and Prophet erred in judgement see Is 28. 7. on which words Sanctius the Jesuit saith Priests Prophets and people were spiritually drunk Did not the Church rulers while the Levitical Priest-hood lasted procure the death of Christ Secondly Under the Gospel Popes and Councils have erred Ergo they are not infallible Tertullian telleth contra Praxetam that Eleutherius the Pope approved Montanus heresie and obtruded it on the Church as his Irenicum Your own Barronius telleth ad ann 302. that Marcellus the Pope sacrificed to Idols Athaudsius †Athanasius in epist ad Solitariam vitam agentes testifieth that Liberius the Pope was Arrian Honorius was condemned in the sixth General Council as a Monothelit Anastasius the Pope saith Alphonsus de cast lib. 5. cap. 25. was Nestorian Now can Monothelism Nestorianism Arrianism Montaaism and Idolatry be â—nherent to a man infallible Or can a chair make that man who is Arrian Orthodoxe or him who sacrificeth to Idols unerring who will believe this Councils may erre adversaries being judges Occam asserteth so much and Petrus Alliaco Cardinalis qu. vespert art 3. for he saith that this promise the gates of hell shal not prevail against the Church is made universo catui fidelium to the whole number of the faithful not to the representative Church which may erre Panor sup 1. part sib decret Dicit Ecclesiam quae non potest errare esse totam collectionem fidelium nam ista est Ecclesia quae non potest errare that is the whole company of believers which cannot erre Nic. de Clemang in his disp with the Parisians saith the promise Matth. 18. as likewise that Iohn 16. The spirit of truth shal lead you into all truth belongeth only to spiritual ones and it were better to be much in fasting and prayer for direction then to bragge we cannot erre So then I reason the Pope may erre
but Aristocratical Under the New Testament the Lord appointed no visible Monarch on earth to be an officer in his church for our last appeal in dubious cases is regulated by that well known Scripture Matth. 18. 17. If he will See Bish Laud. againstâ— Fisher not hear the church let him be to thee as a publican Now it is absurd to say that this should be the sense of it tell the Pope for in no language the word Church can signifie a visible Monarch Secondly The council of Jerusalem maketh not for this for not only proceed they upon Scripture grounds but although they were infallible men yet none of them took the Papal way and the government was not Monarchical It seemed good to the holy Ghost and us Thirdly Church power is Ministerial Matth. 20. 25. 26. 2. Cor. 1. 24. 1. Pet. 5. 3. but Monarchy is Magisterial therefore it agreeth not with church power And when Papists reason for the power of the church and mention councils the argument may be thus propounded church officers councils have been appointed to rule and order the affairs of the house of God Ergo they may do what they will and who can say unto them what dost thou I deny the consequence Ergo the Pope is one of these officers it is absolutly refused And this is summa totalis of the prolix answer to the fourth question which may be taken away with a word Ergo if the word make not for them theâ— they may betake themselves to their own traditions and rule by them That is denyed also by us And suppose they should give the Law to their own Vassals will it therefore follow that they empire it over the whole christian-Christian-church And seeing all churches are bound to a rule can any be infallible which have need of a rule When you make the Pope your church do ye not build your faith on him Is this like the foundation Eph. 2. 20. What is this but to make your faith humane And is it not absurd to say that Alexander the siâ—â—h Pope Iohn 22. in the cathedra were infallible as the Prophets and Apostles in dyting Scripture they cannot blush who speak so Fifthly As for the fifth particular viz. That place of Augustin cont ep fund cap. 5. I would not have believed the Scripture Pro. An. 5 unless the authority of the church had moved me Our Divines have answered fully long ago so it is a threed bare argument for he speaketh not there concerning the formal reason why Scripture is believed but concerning the mean and motive by which intrants are brought at first to the knowledge of the Scripture I mean the consused knowledge of the Scripture as when a man delivereth a letter he may tell from whom it is but the faith of it is from the subscription So here then by the church he understandeth not the church or Pope of Rome but the Primitive-church of the faithful which did hear see Christ and his Apostles So saith Durand †Dur lib. dist 24. qu. 1. he had to do with the Manichees who would make him believe their Gospel No saith he the testimony of those who did see with their eyes hear with their ears and handle the word of life is to be preferred to your assertion and this is a motive which made me at first quite Manichism and close with the Gospel of Christ so speaketh Melchior Canus lib. 2. de loc cap. 8. therefore it maketh nothing for the imperious supremacie of the Pope or Church in matters of faith fot there is a difference between coÌ„muma motivafidei and formalis ratio credendi See learned and perspicuous Dr. Barron against Turnebul Tract 4. pag. 188. Who hath unanswerably demonstrated this truth and so interpreteth these words of Augustin The testimony of the church is a principle inductive and a motive to new intrants to read hear and consider the holy Scriptures and it produceth only an humane faith the inward testimony of the holy Spirit is the principle effective of divine faith and the Scriptures themselves are the formal reason and terminative principle whereinto divine faith is resolved as a building upon its foundation Eph. 2. 20. To conclude this answer We judge that the pure Gospel Church is and should be the pronouncer of divine sentence from the Scripture that the authority of Councils should be inrerposed for making men willing and obedient to the divine law so should the Magistrat concurre in his station for that effect But the church of Rome is not pure nor like that which once it was in the Apostle Paul his time and at no time could she be called the Universal church far less now Albeit then her faith was spoken of throughout all the world Is this a good argument the faith of the Church of Brittain is mentioned throughout all the reformed churches of Transylvania Hungaria Polland Germany Bohaemia Flanders France and Helveâ—ia therefore it is the universal-Universal-church no we claim no more but to be a Sister church to these in the confession of faith according to the Scriptures †Alb. Pighius lib. 6. Eccl. hierarc cap. 3. and all together make up the Universal-church And any one of these is preferable to the church at Rome as it is now corrupted and apostatized Will ye hear Albertus Pighius Quis unquam per Romanam Ecclesiam intellexit universalem who ever did by the Roman Church understand the Church universal Why do ye then speak so and ambitiously empire it over all the world Question fifth Seeing no Scripture is of Pa. Qu. 5 privat interpretation 2. Pet. 1. 20. should privat men take upon them to interpret the same Answer The sense of that text is no scripture Pro. An. is the indytment of a privat spirit but proceedeth from the holy Ghost for it followeth holy men of GOD spake as they were moved by the holie Ghost and it came not of old by the will of men Therefore it is no ways to be thought that privat men should be barred from searching the Scripture seeing Christ Jesus commanded the contrar Io. 5. 39. This was spoken to a whole multitude of persecuting Jews The word is the sword of the spirit Eph. 6. 17. should any privat man be disarmed amongst his foes And blessed is he whither privat or publict who meditateth in the law of the Lord day and night Ps 1. Reply In your fifth answer you grant with the Apostle that no prophecie of the Scripture Pa. Rep. is of any privat interpretation so should you grant also that the Scriptures cannot be rightly expounded of every privat spirit and fancie of the vulgar Reader but by the same spirit wherewith they were writren which resolveth in the Church And I am very confident no learned or wise Protestant will allow any privat man to expound scripture against the common consent of the whole Catholick Church wherein they were immediatly before But you insist that it is
not to be thought that privat mâ—n should be barred from searching the scripture seeing it is contrar to that text John 5. 39. where if by searching the Scripture you mean the reading and interpretation of it that cannot be the sense of it For the Apostle Paul saith 1. Cor. 12. GOD hath set in the Church Prophets Apostles Doctors c. Then he addeth are all Apostles are all Prophets are all Doctors do all interpret Then this doth not belong to every man to read and interpret Scripture but to search the deep meaning and sense thereof from the Doctors of the Church For the Jews did search the scripture reading and hearing it read in their Synagogues and yet did deny Christ to be the Messiah which scripture doth clearly testifie Even as Protestants do read Scripture and in it the real presence the power to forgive sins granted to men justification by faith and good works anointing the sick virginity preferred to marriage and yet deny all this Wherefore as Christ exhorteth the Jews to do it with greater reflection and attention not superficially turning and shuffling it over as Protestants do so do I exhort them The word is the sword of the spirit upon which you inferre should any privat man be disarmed amongst his soes So let me tell you that the Apostle calling it a sword sheweth that it should not be put into a mad mans hand or in the hand of a fool i. e. Poor ignorants who as Peter saith wrest it to their own destruction and yet this is your consequence if it should be granted to all privat men Children and fools get not arms amongst their foes wherewith they might rather wrong themselves then their enemies but are under the protection of their Paedagogues and attendants And so the ignorant should not easily handle the sword of the word being ignorant and only capable of the letter but should receive the sense thereof from the Church and her Pastors that it may be to them an arme of defence Pro. Duply 1 Answer first All this is answered fully in the return of the first question to which place I referre the Reader lest I make idle repetition If the rule of right reasoning had been observed nothing of this ought to have come in formerly but here in its own proper place I distinguished betwixt privat men and privat interpretations then betwixt the extraordinar gift of interpreting and the ordinar Thirdly Betwixt the priviledge and the exercise Privat men have the priviledge to search the Scriptures you say it should be by no other then doctors if that be true then the Lord Jesus did not direct the people who heard him to use prayer and meditation for knowing the Scriptures but to go to their rulers Scribes and Pharisees who did what they could to make the Scriptures testifie against him and all his I appeal to the conscience or reason of any if this exposition on the place can hold water Or if an indvidual act such as this being performed by another is an obedience to a command If this exposition be good then when the Lord pronounceth the man blessed who meditats in the Law day and night the sense of it must be if his Pastors do it for him it is enough Who will admit this But the one is as true as the other Secondly You contradict your self for once you say that privat men should not interpret Pro. An. 2 Scripture but take it from the mouth of the church then immediatly you exhort them to do it not superficially but with attention and we exhort to no more Thirdly You make all the people who are Pro. An. 3 privat men mad fools and Children by your coÌ„parison in whose hand the word of GOD should not be put then it must be taken from them and how agreeth this with the former exhortation What if this were told to the Kings and Queens who are Popâ—sh By the testimony of your doctors ye are all de clared unfit to rule others for mad men fools children caÌ„not govern In effect ye guide theÌ„ as such in divine matters for ye muzle and blindfold the people all this passeth under the notion of Paedagogy But sad is the case of such pupils â—f they knew what belonged to their peace Let ignorants be catechised and trained in the ways of GOD this may make them more discerning of the sense and meaning of the word of God Seneca telleth Coenant nobiscum quidam quia sunt docti alii ut sint doâ—li Some men suppe with us because they are learned others that they may be learned The testimonies of the Lord make wise the simple should they then be deprived of them Question sixth Ye agree not about the Pa. Qu. 6 rule for some cast at the Epistle of James others receive it Answer None of the pure reformed do Pro. Qu. so it was only rejected by some Lutherians in which we do not owne them Secondly The number of Scripture books is not the question but whither these mantained by all be the rule of saith Seeing all men are murable creatures and at their best state vanity Popes clash with Popes Councils with Councils Pulpits with Pulpits let any judge whither it be safest that the revealed will of God be our rule or the dictats of self contradicting men Reply You say none of these pure reformed Pa. Reply reject the Epistle of James and you disclaime the Lutherians who do so and they you for I am confident they will acknowledge none for pure reformers who take an Epistle for scripture which they hold to be none Then you say the number of Scripture books is not the question Sir you move questions as you please but hear Mr. Hooker one of your most learned Protestants lib. 1. Eccl. pol. Sect. 14. pag. 36. of these things necessar saith he the very chief is to know what books we esteem holy which is impossible for it self to teach Apply this to your only determiner of faith in your first answer And truely I think this should be the first question of all to the pure reformed according to the pure word of God as you cal them which are the books of the pure word of GOD Now if you answer these are mantained by all which you make the rule of faith how few books of Scripture shal be this rule if any at all For there be few or none whereof some have not doubted or flatly denyed Saint Augustin contra Faustum Manichaeum and lib. de mor. Eccl. cap. 1. Saith the Manichees did deny Moses and the Prophets the Jews did deny the New Testament What books of Scripture are mantained by all For by that you make the consent of all judge of canonical Scripture how then can you disclaim tradition and say immediatly after men are mutable creatures and at their best state vanity Seeing upon the consent of men ye take up your rule of faith and number of Scripture books I know other Protestants
alleadge for this that the books of Scripture like the Sun shew themselves to be such to him who hath the spirit But I would ask at such why the Rev. St. James Epistle the second of St. Peter and two of St. John did not shew themselves to be Scripture to Luther that spiritual man and the Protestants very first Apostle in the work of reformation in the end you say Let any judge whither it be safest that the revealed will of God be your rule and determiner or the dictats of self contradicting creatures Where you seem to rubbe on Catholicks But Sir this toucheth not them at all for they profess not to believe self-contradicting creatures but the unanimous consent of Councils and fathers or the Catholick Church known to be the only Church established by Christ and his Apostles and by the continued succession of Popes Bishops and Pastors the unity universality and gifts of miracles in all ages c. Which Christ hath called the ground and pillar of truth 1. Tim. 3. 15. and against which he assureth us the gates of hell shal not prevail Math. 16. 18. and which he hath commanded us to hear otherwise to be holden as heathens and publicans Math. 18. 17. so you see that the written word maketh the Church our judge which we should obey and that ye who make so much of the written word do not believe it when ye do not obey her And here I remarke that Protestant Ministers and preachers deceive the people in that they ground their faith on the written word only and Roman Catholicks say they on humane tradition and their Churches authority which being composed of men is subject to errour Whereas the contrar is true for Roman Catholicks believe nothing which the written word believing both the tradition of the Church and Apostles doth not expresly warrand As for the Church what is more expresly said then what I have cited both to prove that we are bound to hear her Mat. 18. 18. and hold her authority infallible Math. 16. 18 and the house of God which is the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3. 15. Neither doth it avail you to say this is not said of the Roman Church which is not the universal Church but a particular one a strumpet c. For we speak not of any particular Church when we say that the Church is infallible nor when we say the Roman the Catholick do we understand the particular Church at Rome But that Church which professeth constantly the Romans faith spread in saint Pauls time through all the world As we call yet the Roman Empire that which hath its seat in Vien of Austria Yea Protestants calling their own the reformed Church cannot say but we have one Church on earth which Christ commanded us to hear constantly And if the reformed Church be the true Church then she must have taken the place from that church which was deformed and had fallen into an errour and so deserved no more to be called the pillar and ground of truth or to be heard Moreover the very pillars of the Protestant Religion grant all the world to be in an errour before themselves and so against the express written Word must deny the infallibility of any Church whatever For Calv. Instit lib. 4. cap. 18. saith they made all the Kings and People of the earth drunk from the first to the last and Hospinian epist 41. saith Luthers separation was from all the world White in his defence chap. 37. saith Popery was a leprosie breeding so universally in the church that there was no visible company of men free from it Jewel in his Sermon on Luke 11. The whole world Princes and people were overwhelmed by ignorance and bound by oath to the Pope which if it be true that the Church in former ages did erre the reformed Church may erre that themselves do not deny Thence it followeth clearly that the Protestant Church is not the house of GOD called the pillar and ground of truth that she is not Christs Church against which the gates of hell shal not prevail that none are bound to hear her in matters of faith being subject to errour And so Protestants may well desire men to read the Scripture and believe what they found there but not urge any man to follow their doctrine but in so far as they find it conforme to Scripture which all Roman Catholicks protest they do not As for traditions are we not commanded to hold them in the clear written Word 2. Thess 2. 15. Hold the traditions which ye have learned whither by word or our epistle Protestants read documents but documents by word and traditions are the same thing on which place Chrysost saith It is evident that the Apostle did not deliver all things by writ but many things by word which are worthy of credit as wel as the other That is Christs word as well as his writ therefore we call them divine and Apostolical traditions Aug. lib. 5. de Trinit cap. 23. speaking of rebaptization The Apostle saith he commanded nothing of it but that customâ— which is believed to proceed from the Apostle is opposed against Cyprian in it as many things are which the whole Church holdeth and therefore are believed to be commanded by the Apostles though not written Aâ—d in the first age saint Dennis chap. 1. speaking of the Ecclesiastick hierarchy saith These our chief captains of Priestly function did deliver to us the chiefest and supersubstantial points partly in written partly in unwritten institutions Epiph. Haeres 61. is of the same minde we must hold traditions saith he for the Scripture hâ—th not all things and Tertullian de praescrip grounds his faith on the authority of the Church and what tradition I believe saith he I received from the present Church the present Church from the primitive that from the Apostles the Apostles from Christ Here I hope you see you must either admit traditions as necessar in themselves and infallible in their authority or else disclaim both Scripture and Fathers All that Protestants can say either against the authority of the Church in general Councils or Apostolick traditions delivered by her is that all her decisions and traditions flow from men and so are not infallible But I answer neither were the Prophets Apostles Evangelists who penned the Scripture but men yet I hope their writtings are not fallible or subject to errour Because they were inspired directly and assisted by the Spirit of God The Fathers of the Church have to this day that promise verified to them Math. 28. 20. which was made as well to their successours as to themselves As for that some Protestante speak of an invisible Church composed of the Elect it is but a shift to delude the ignorant for as it is a Maxime of law Idem est non esse non apparere i. e. it is the same not to be and not to appear to be in the matter of any
pretended right so in the matter of doctrine an invisible Church and no Church is the same For if I cannot see nor know the Elect as being invisible to the eye of man so I cannot know that the Church composed of them speaketh to me or that this Doctrine I hear of any man is infallible more then that he is one of the Elect. Answer I am weary transseribing a number Protest Duply of wordâ— without weight that is a compleet rapsodie and no return to the former question If such digressions were heard in the School the Writter behoved to be sore censured The question was how the Scripture could be the square Seeing all agree not about the number of the books some cast at the Epistle of James as the Lutherans And the answer I gave was that although some Lutherans differre from us about the authority of that epistle yet we both agree here that uncontroverted scripture is the determiner And for the numerick question it was sufficiently answered in the second answer to the first querie so we needed not this tauâ—oligie to make the Reader nauseat If I had to do with a Lutheran then I could prove the divine authority of that Epistle but you do not deny it therefore to what purpose should I insist on that subject against you Mr. Hooker whom you cite maketh nothing against us as is alledged for that which he sayes is first that the light of reason rightly managed is a requâ—sit mean for the knowledge of scripture books and what sayeth that against us seeing we suppose the Readers of Scripture to be â—ational men that reason in its own line may be helpful to them for understanding scripture Secondly Mr. Hooker directly disclaimeth your traditions page 86. and affirmeth that they who betake themselves to that testimonie as divine have not the truth but are in an errour Thus he condemneth you as erronious so it had been your advantage to have spared this tradition neither was it needful to tell us that the Manichees denyed Moses and the Jews the New Testament We have to do with Papists who hold all the books of the Old and New Testament which we hold for Canonick At lest what some others make disputable as Melchior Canus telleth us you put it out of dispute so you are not in bona fide to reason about their number with us seeing ye question none which we mantaine albeit we justly call in question Apocryphal writtings which ye put into the Canon Is it not safer to regulate our faith by these uncontroverted Scriptures then by the dictats of mutable self-contradicting Popes When Church Rulers have been fully corrupted Believers have continued orthodoxe as in the time of the Arrian persecution The Fathers who lived the first 300. year believed without either Pope or General Council as propounders of their faith For then there was no such pretending to infallible supremacy They had no infallible testimony from the Church they acknowledged not her testimony to be such And for ought I can learn theâ—e be no testimony of your Church nor statute enacting her testimony to be infallible If so it is nor according to you de fide however ye make a great noise amongst people with it And if all the faith you have depend upon the testimony of the present Church which is your doctrine your faith is not one with Abrahams faith for the word of God did beget his faith but it is the testimony statute of the Trent Council that begettâ—th yours and I would gladly hear from you whither there was universal consent there or not Such clashing and pocket orders as the author of that history telleth to the world will not permit you to say without a blush that the Council was unanimous and Gospel-like in their way Therefore unless it be against us all their otheracts are made up of ambiguous stuffe like the Delphian responses this is purposely coÌ„trived to cover debates with general termes And if their testimony make the word of GOD Scripture to me living under Popery what rule had they for their faith who made these conclusions Their own testimony could not be the cause of their own belief if you say that the testimonie of the ancient Church was their rule then ye go contrar to your own Doctors who declare that the present Church of Rome is above all former councils and their authority dependeth on her testimony See Bell. lib. de Eccl. cap. 10. Valentia Tom. 3. disp 1. quest 1. Further that the supream power of judging is not in the Council but in the Pope that he is above a general Council that he cannot be subject to it See Bell. lib. 2. de Concil cap. 17. Valentia tom 3. disp 1. Suarez disp 5. de fide and your own Vives in his comment on Augustins 20. book de civit Dei cap. 26. telleth us how little ye make of Councils or of the ancient Church when they militat against you Illa demum videntur iis Concilia quo in rem suam faeiunt reliqua non pluris estimantur quam commenta mulierum in textrina aut thermis i. e. These appear to be Councils to them which make for them the rest are no more esteemed by them then the sables of old women in the weavers shop or sloves Brisâ—â—erius writting against Collag a Jansenist as he is cited by learned Dalleus †See Dâ—lleus de usu Patrum saith Councils are literae mortuae nisi animentur à praesenti Ecclesia i. e. They are dead letters if they be not animated by the present Church This appeareth to be true from experience for ye agree not with the primitive either in doctrine worship or government The ancients thought that Images should not be in the Church See Epiph. epist ad Iohannem Hierosolymitanum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cum vidissem Imaginem penderâ— in Ecclesia contra authoritatem Scripturae i. e. When I saw an Image hang in the Church contrar to the authority of Scripture how grieved was I. But the Council of Trent appointed them to be had in houses and Churches and that debitus honor reverentia Sess 25. eis impertiatur i. e. Due honor and worship be given to them The Fathers thought that the Virgin Marie was conceived in sin so saith Ambrose Augustin Chrysostom as Melchior Canus de loc Theol. lib. 7. telleth The Council of Trent Sess 5. will not conclude heâ— under Original sin The Fathers excluded Tobias Judith Wisdom Ecclesiasticus and both the books of the Maccabees out of the canon of Scripture So did Hierom in his prologue ad libros Solomonis Epiph. lib. de Pond mens cap. 2. pag. 162. Gregorie Nazianzen câ—rm 3. Athanasius epist fest But the Council of Trent anathematizeth them who exclude these books out of the Canon Sess 4 Baptism was delayed till Pasch and Pentecost in the primitive Church it is not so with you The 4. Council of Carthage did forbide women
about matters of faith Secondly If so they be no where written in Scripture Thirdly That if they be not written they be the same which ye deliver to the people and by what authority ye press and writ them But to take this text wholly from your mis-interpretation hear Theodoret who saith that the Apostle spake not of diverse doctrines but of the same diversely delivered For first he preached to the Thessalonians and then did writ the substance of it But as where ever ye find fire in the Scripture ye make it Purgatory so where ye find tradition ye make it pari ratione yours Will ye listen to Bell. lib. 4. de verbo Dei cap. 10. and he will put all out of doubt for he granteth that all in substance were written by the Apostles which they preached to the people or were necessar to salvation Cyprian in his epist ad Pompeium admitteth not any traditions but such as may be perceived to be in the Evangels in the Epistles or Acts of the holy Apostles Therefore it is a perfect rule to all discerners say I and no more was at first asserted Your Maxime Idem est non esse non apparere holdeth in law but not in divinity For the soul is not visible yet who can deny the being of it What is more in the Reply I judge not worthy the noticeing and I am forced to make digression because of an impertinent return Is it not strange that when I called men mutable creatures and at their best state vanitie subject to clashing contradiction and that the written Word is the only infallible rule for direction that upon this tradition universal consent should be so prolixely commented on without any connexion They who follow this reflecter must resolve to deviat from tho high way Question seventh Your Church which ye Papists Quest. 7 call reformed is but of yesterday where was it before Luther Answer It is as old in its doctrinals as Prote ∣ stants Answer the Scripture therefore not of yesterday See what societie from the beginning professed the doctrine mantained there that was out Church The Romans Corinthians Ephesians Philippians Thessalonians as taught by the Apostle Paul are our Church of old so it is not new Secondly In all ages there have been and are eminent professours of that doctrine which we mantaine as is abundantly proved by Flaccus Illyricus in his Catalogue Testium veritatis and learned Dr. Usher in successione Ecclesiae reform which testimonies no Popish shaveling of what ever ordour yet could answer Thirdly where was the church of Rome as now constituted before the council of Trent Nay more was the Popes supremacy and infallibility heard of the 600 year after Christ Is not all Popish faith as such resolved into a lie viz. the infallibility of the Pope or Council which though errand untruths are the key of the Popish Religion Fourthly All the positives of the reformed Religion were mantained substantially in the Primitive church the first 300. years I speake not of changeable circumstances nor integrals but essentials and the negatives could not be there because the controversies were not then started But ye Papists have amassed a body of humane inventions gross errours contrare to scripture obtruding them under Anathema to be the established doctrine of the Church And because we of the reformed Profession will not own these and call that which is new old ye excommunicat us as Hereticks Reply In your seventh Answere you say Papists Reply your doctrine is as old as scripture and your Church as the Apostles and this is common to you with all sectaries to claime the scripture and the Church in the time of the Apostles And like to that answer of the common people we are all come of Adam and Eve But I shall let you presently see how contrar your doctrine is to that scripture and how unlike your Church is to that of the Apostles the first 300 year In the second part ye pretend that Illyricus and Doctor Usher have sufficiently shewed that there have been eminent men of your Profession in all ages and that without a Reply of any Popish shaveling of whatever ordour But Sir I am sorrie that you who are a Nazarian and not a shaveling shoule be so ill versed in books of controversie as not to have seen so many Catholick writters who demonstrat clearly that of all these eminent men before Calvin you pretend to be yours there is not one hath holden all the same tenets with you and no more For it is enough for you that they dissent from the Church of Rome and sling at the Popes authority what ever tenets they hold in matters of belief to call them yours Which hath made Dr. Vane Chaplain to our late King judiciously compare them to Sampsons foxes which were all bound together by the tails although their heads went diverse wayes So that when you call the Luthereans Valdenses Albigenses Hussites Catharists Wicklessians Graecians Egyptians yours you may as well call the Turks and Tartars yours if we trust all records which speake of their tenets And as for the Fathers hear if they were yours in the opinion of the most learnea Protestants Dudithius apud Bezam ep 1. If that be true which Papists say the Fathers with mutual consent are altogether on their side Pet. Martyr 2. de verbo col 1539. as long as we stand to Councils and fathers we shal alwayes remain in the same errours And fully confesseth that Hierom Ambrose and Augustin held the invocation of Saints Chemnitius in ex concil trid art 3. pag. 100. did not disput but avouch that most of the Fathers said the souls of the Martyrs heard the petition of those that prayed to them they went to monuments and invocated Martyrs by name Whitgift in his defence pag. 473. all the Bishops and writters of the Greek and Latine Church too who no doubt were the Fathers for the most part were spotted with the doctrine of Free-will Merit Invocation of Saints Judge then Sir if they were pure In the third part you ask where was the Church of Rome before the council of Trent I answer you even where she is now except in Jappony India China and some parts of America where by their Christian labours and by the blessing of GOD she hath been established since Neither can you instance that she is not constantly the same in all points Nay more say you was the Popes infallible universal supremacie heard of the first 600. years Where it seems you must be very deaf who hear not the voice of 1200. Fathers speaking only in the four first general Councils He who holdeth the See of Rome is chief and head of all Patriarchs saith right seeing he is the first as Peter to whom all power is given over all Christian Princes and all their people and who ever contradicteth this is excommunicated Can. 29. Concil Nicaeni anno 325. Where 316 Bishops were conveened Secondly
who dare not ask God for the exceeding greatness of my sin O saints of God I beseech you with tears and weeping to fall down before his mercy seat for me wretch Sixthly ye deny the making of the sign of the Cross and Images but hear S. Dennis lib. 2. Eccl. hierarch cap. 2. 5. The sign of the Cross is so much honoured that it is often used both in Baptism and other Sacraments And in the third Age Tertul. de cor mil. cap. 3. In every thing we sign our forehead with the sign of the Cross of which practise tradition is the defender custome the conserver and faith the observer And againe the same Tertul. lib. 2. de pudic The Image of Christ bearing a Lamb on his shoulder were graven on chalices and used in Churches Seventhly ye deny Freewill which in the second Age Irenaeus lib. 4. cap. 72. affirmeth not only in workes but even in faith hath Almighty God reserved liberty of will to man saying be it done to thee according to thy faith And in the third Age S. Cyprian lib. 3. cap. 52. The freedom of believing or not believing is placed in the will Eâ—ghtlie ye denie merit of workes but in the second Age Justin Martyr Ap. 2. boldeth it saying We think that men who by workes have shewed themselves worthy of the will and counsel of God shall by their merits reign with him And in the third Age St. Cyprian sect de Eleemosyna If the day of your return shal find us unloaden swift and running in the way of good works our Lord will not fail to reward our merits Ninthlie Ye deny the possibility of keeping the Commandments against Tertul. in the second Age cited by the Centurists and Origen in the 1. hom 9. on Iob. the baptized saith he may fulfil the law in all things Judge now Sir whither it be not an open calumnie to say the controversies betwixt you and us were not then started in the first 300. years The Fathers having taught even then so clearlie our tenets which nevertheless ye are not ashamed to call new with Dr. Pierce in his Court sermon but see the two learned answers made to him which may evidentlie convince you of boldness ignorance and errour Answer You are wise by this your reply Prote ∣ stants Duply for you leave the marrow of my answer untouched which was this That our Church in Doctrinals worship c. is as old as Scripture That you pass with a jeer and say that it is the language of all Sectaries This calumny hath been cast of old upon pure doctrine Acts 24. and their worship called Haeresie verse 14 I wish that all Sects were such as we are scriptural in their way Ye are the greatest Schismaticks I know on earth departing from the Scriptures and mocking others who adhere to them The other assertion is That this is the voice of common people who claim descent from Adam and Eve Is not this true Are not all nations of men made of one blood Acts 17. 26. It is grace and vertue which maketh the difference Omnis sanguis concolor And iâ— we have as much relation to scripture Churches as multitudes have to Adam and Eve we are not spurious but of a right extract Ye probably must be a kind of men like the pre-Adamits and of another descent But one cheat is here remarkable you promise to shew how contrar our doctrine is to scripture and when you come to answer then you beginne with Dudithius and overleap the whole scripture Your own Rainerius an Inquisitor giveth this verdict concerning us that we are said to have been from the beginning and walked by the Scriptures Secondly You pass that concerning professours of our doctrine in all Ages and will not signifie one man who answereth Flaccius or refuteth Usher but only you averre with Dr. Vane to whom ye are much beholden in this that they were not in all things ours I know few discerning men who agree in all things If we hold one foundation which Jesus Christ hath laid that maketh unity and uniformity All Christian Churches except Romanists make the Scripture the sole rule of their faith and to this we accord Were the Eastern and Western Churches essentially different because of some discrepances about the time of Easter c. For Turkes and Tartars they are without Christ and you might more pertinently have spared the comparison of them with ancient churches and professours if your charity were as much in your breasts as in your books and your respect real to the Saints in light Thirdly That which I said I will mak good that all the positive fundamentals of our Religion were mantained in the Church the first 400. years This appeareth from the Creeds and Confessions of Faith then made yet extant Let any read the Apostolick Nicaene or Anathasius Creed the determinations of the Ephesian council written by Cyril of Alexandria the Confession of Faith made by the council of Chalcedon and there they will find exact conformity with the positives of our Religion Popery addeth to these their own inventions which we renounce and this maketh the difference To make this truth appear the more I shal name these foundations The doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles upon which our faith is builded We hold that there is one GOD three Persons that the world was made by GOD and man the tennant when the house was made appointed to bring in his rent That man was made according to the Image of GOD in holiness and righteousness That he fell from his first state and turned to the creature by transgression That sin entered this and death by sin That he sinned as a publick person and involved posteritie under a curse That GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son who was very GOD made flesh in the womb of the blessed Virgin and dyed for our sins and after burial rose again for our righteousneâ—s So that it is the blood of Jesus Christ only that cleanseth us from all siâ— And eternal life is the gift of GOD through Jesus Christ our Lord and when he paid the price then he ascended to Heaven and the Heaven must contain him as man â—ill the day of the restitution of all things That he iâ— now aâ— the right hand of GOD advocating and inâ—erceeding for as many as the Father gave him and shal come again and render â—o every man according to his works When he ascended on high he led captivity captive and sent the Holy Ghost who proceedeth from the Father and the Son who createth saith in us by which we are justified Who enlighteneth convinceth comforteth supporteth directeth all the houshold of faith and teacheth all the children to worship GOD alone in spirit and in truth and to call on his Name through Jesus Christ the only Media tour betwixt GOD and man Our Lord sent his Apostles and set them in the Church commanding them to teach
and baptize all Nations To ordain Pastours for edifying the body whose power and calling it is to preach the Word purely to administrat the Sacraments of Baptism and the Supper of the Lord as it was first delivered to rule their flocks as they that watch for souls and should stand and feed in the strength of the Lord to administer discipline according to the word of GOD and to do every thing commanded there which may bring men near GOD and help them forward in their journey to Heaven That Magistrats should be obeyed in the Lord. Parents honoured and husband and wife dwel together according to knowledge as heirs of the grace of life That Masters should remember they have a Master in Heaven and Servants be subject to their Masters for the Lords sake That the Lord to whom we owe all should be loved with the whole heart and have the flower of our affection and that we love our neighbour as our self That we should rather suffer then sin and glorify GOD in every station wherein he placeth us This is the summe of the positives which we mantaine he who will deny that all this is contained in Scripture and consented to by the Fathers hath no understanding either of Scripture or antiquity The negatives of our Religion are points of Popery denyed by us and condemned in the Scripture contrar to all antiquity Such as these That the Pope of Rome is supream infallible Monarch of the Christian Church That he and these who follow him cannot erre in matters of faith That he hath preheminence above the scripture and may dispence with the law of GOD concerning incest murder perjury c. That he may depose Kings Their service in an unknown tongue is contrary to all pure antiquitity so much is confessed by Thomas Cajetan and Lyranus writting on 1. Cor. 14. Their praying on beads a late invention Polid Virgil lib. 5. invent cap. 9. Their carrying of the Hoste by a pompous procession is praeter veterem morem saith Cassander consult art 22. not according to antiquity That Christ is bodily present there and should be worshâ—pped and that bread and wine is no longer there after consecration is not older then the Lateran Council That the cup should be holden from the People is of one age with the council of Constance That the Mass iâ— a proper propitiatory sacrifice for the sinnes of dead and living was unknown to Peter Lombard who saith from Augustin lib. 4. disp â—â— that which is offered is called a sacrifice because it is a commemoration and representation of the true sacrifice made on the altar of the Cross Augustin lib. 20. cap. 21. against Faustus the Manichaean the flesh and blood of Christ before his comming into the world was promised by the similitude of the legâ—l sacrifices in the suffering of Christ 〈◊〉 his flesh and blood was in the veritie and antitype it self exhibited after the asâ—â—â—tion of Christ it is celebrated in the Sacrament of commemoration That none should communicaâ— except such as make aâ—ticulat consession to a Priest was not known in the ancient Church saith Maldon sum qu. â—â— art 11. Where there was only publick confession That Images should be set up in Churches and worshipped was abominated till the second council of Nice The like may be said of Purgatorie worshipping Saints and Angels with-holding the Bible from people c. So the Romish Religion is new and ours the good old way quod primum verum saith Tertul. lib. 4. contra Marc. cap. 5. It is true that the enemy did sow tares quickly in the Church and the mysterie of iniquity did encrease by degrees Yet these were not holden to be de side and made articles of the Christian Creed under the paine of Anathema till the council of Trent then indeed in stead of reformation which occasioned that convention the Trent Doctors oâ— at least the plurality of them gathered the crotchets of some Fathers the disputable opinions of some School-men and making a bundle of all together did obtrude them to be believed by all Christians under the pain of excommunication So that the church of Rome as new dogmatized is no older then the council of Trent and ours is as old as Scripture sensed by the purest antiquity For further clearing beside all I have said formerly you may hear this more how Suarez telleth us that the council of Florence did at first insinuat that there were seven Sacraments but it was no article of faith till the council of Trent the like may be said of the rest So Popery is a superstitious superstructure like an ulcer on the body which was long in growing at last did break out and stain the garments of many in a world When our Lord Jesus dyed he left a Testamen behind him which being opened directeth all his subjects how to carry Papists not content with this rule for ordering his legacâ—e upon a pompous design have formed a dative which they make equal to his Testament which we disclaim and honestly adhere to the first Testament here is the rule of our Negatives It is â—â—â—rasonick bragge for you to say That of an 100. Fathers ye have 99. for your tenets and as untrue that the four first general Councils were for the Popes universal supremacie The Fathers though the mystery of iniquitie was then in the cradle being taken up with other controversies did not purposely fall on these tares which scarcely were come to the blade then For instance the Fathers in the first 300. years whose books are extaÌ„t were Iust Mar. who did writ 150. year after Christ an Apology for the vindication of Christians to the Senat of Rome after another of the samekind to Antonius the Emperor a Dialogue concerning the verity of Christian Religion called Tryphon and some other letters exhorting to moral duties holding forth the Roligion of Christians against Jews and Gentiles but that which is Poperie the source of controversies in the Christian Church was unknown to him The next is Ironaeus who lived about the year of Christ 178. He did write five books against the heresies of his time as the Valentinians Gnosticks Ophites the heresie of Simon Magus Menander Basilides So Popery is not to be found in them unless some of these heresies be found in their skirts The â—hird is Clemens Alexandrinus who flourished in the year of Christ 196. who was a Presbyter of Alexandria the subject he handleth is in three parcels an exhortation to the Gentiles to renounce their Idols a Paedagogy to the Christians instructing them about their carriage and his Stromara which is a Miscellany work against the followers of Basilides Gnosticks c. Origen lived about the same time whose writtings are so imperfect and vitiated that we scarce know what to make of them as Erasmus witnesseth in his edition Tertullian did writ about the same time several books as concerning Patience the Resurrection against the Jews against Marcion Hermogenes
to the Sabbath of the Lord. Secondly Our dayes of humiliation and thanksgiving are not nimious for number nor one rous to the people but yours are such that many of your own complaine on them as Polydore Wirgil in proaemio and oâ—hers And if Aug. complained so of these in his own time what would he say â—ow if he were living Will ye hear what he saith Epist 119. Omnia talia quae sanctarum Scripturarum authoâ—itatibus continentur nec in Conciliis Episcoporum statuta inveniuntur nec consuetudine universae Ecclesiae roborata sunt ita ut vix aut omnino nunquam invenâ—ri possunt causae quas in eis instituendis homines sequuti sunt sine ulla dubitatione resecanda existimo Then he saith all such things which stumble the weake and are detrimental not founded on Scripture are to be cut off And again albeit it cannot be found out Quomodo contra fidem sint Yet ipsam Religionem premunt seruilibus oneribus ita ut tolerabilior sit conditio Judaeorum because non humanis praesumptionibus ita subjiciuntur Is he not clearly then against your way Thirdly In observing the Sabbath we regard at that time the work for the day but in the dayes of fast and thanksgiving we regarde the day occasionally for the worke Fourthly We have in observing these no cognation with Jewish or Pagane times whereof ye may be impeached and cannot plead not guilty Ninthly Ye condemn marriage as carnall § 9. Inst to some contrare to the Apostle Heb. 13. 4. and make it a Sacrament to others So ye confound your self making it both Sacramentall and Sacrilegious to the elect of God whereas Enoch walked with God and begat sons and daughters Gen. 5. 22. You reply to this that we Ministers are addicted Papists Reply to marriage and therefore should not offend that it is called a Sacrament Thou that it is so called Eph. 5. and by the Greek Fathers who understood their own language And that ye condemn it not as sacrilegious in any but such as take on the vowes of chastitie povertie c. And that it is malice in Ministers to call Vertues Vices Here you contradict your self for in answer to the sixt Question you denyed that Prote ∣ stants Duply 1 the word Sacrament was at all in scripture which is true and yet now you alleadge that it is to be found in the 5. Eph. and marriage is so called Beside your contradiction you speak ignorantly by telling thâ—t the Greek Fathers who understood their own language called marriage a sacrament whereas the word is Latine and not Greek If that place of scripture be read by any it will soâ—n appear that marriage betwixt man and woman is noâ— called a mystâ—rie but that which is between Christ and his Churâ—h vers 32. For the marriage of Ministers I seâ— not why it should be blamed seeing it is holy in all Heb. 13. 4. Nor how any should take on the vow of chastitie who have not the gift from God The Apostle sayeth it is good in time of persecution for the present distress for a man not to be married 1. Cor. 7. It is Bonum utile but it is better to marrie then to burne A chaste life is commendable in any Christian and a Caelchs state may free him of many cares and snares but to tye all Clergie men to it whither they have the gift from GOD or not is a sin And your encroarchment on the divine ordinance and appointment of GOD hath filled your Church with whordoms and adulteries your Cloysters and Nunries with abominable uncleanness and murders of children It is too well known how the vow of chastity is kept by your Church-â—en And if any doubt of it let them read the late relation of the Ambassadour of Venice concerning the present state of the Church at Rome and he will tell you that some of the most eminent Cardinals there will frequently be under Lues Venereâ— Is it not better to marry then to sin thus I appeal to your own conscience Tenthly Ye teach for doctrine the Commandements of men contrar to scripture § 10. Inst for it is reproved Matth. 15. 9. And do dye your worship wholly with there colored antick gestures so that in your worship ye are more like to Monkies then reasonâ—ble men â—nd gâ—ddiâ— stage-players then solid Christianâ— who worship God in spirit and in truth Reply This ciâ—ation is often answered It Papists Reply is not known of what gestures you speak as if â—uer you did see the gestures of worship of the Catholick Church But one thing is sure that it is a very childish calumny Our gestures being so grave that they move men to decâ—â—â—ion and do accompany GODS wâ—rship with decency Majestie better then your gaping likâ— distracted men your affected sighs and howlings You cite again two words of Scripture that we should worship in spirit 〈◊〉 in truth to condemn reverend and grave gestuâ—es of the body in time of worship as if men were pure spirits I answer that albeit I have of seen your Prote ∣ stants Duply worship yet I have heard the forme of it from sundry discerning â—en who had seen it and told me how Apishand Hâ—â—â—â—onick it is And it is strange how anâ— caâ— deny it Seeing the reacting of the Earth-quake of the renâ—ing of the vale of the Temple of the darkness about the time of the Pâ—dâ—on your crossings your kissings your kissings your whisperings washings anointings spiâ—â—ings breathings falâ—ings c. What are they but many idle observations Yoâ—â— iâ—cense on your Altars your candles wherewith ye burne day-light do they not savoâ—â— of Judaism and Paganism And are far more like stage work then sincere worship And iâ— these be not the commandements of men why produce ye not Scripture for your warrand We are not against reasonable service both with the spirit and body but think that bodily exercise alone profiteth little and the marrow of the work is to worship GOD in Spirit Eleventhly Ye think it lawful to equivocat in some cases to dispence with lawful § 11. Inst. Oaths But Scripture sayes It is a snare after vowes to make enquiry Pro. 20. 25. And that the man shal only inhabit the holy mountain who speaketh the truth in his heart Ps 15. Thus ye Popelings are scarce for moral fellowship seeing no words can tye you Doleful experience proveth this in that your Council of Constance murdered John Huss and Hierom of Prague contrar to the solemn warrand for security of their lives And then said by way of poor defence that faith was not to be keeped to Hereticks To this it is replyed thus In your eleventh Section you are not ashamed to set down in Papists Reply writ that we think it lawful to lâ—e which no Catholick did ever writ or say But ye Protestants brought in your Religion by lies as if the whole Church before them had erred in matters of faith and making poor
any other Papist Reply Reply In your twelfth Sect you make us teach that lawful Magistrats may be deposed by the Pope and that we canonize such Where citing Rom. 13. and 1. Pet. 2. you sight with your own shaddow and make up tenets contrar to Scripture which Catholick detest and abhorre But this is proper to Heresie and particularly yours to cause rebellin from lawful Princes and Magistrats as it did every where even in its first beginning witness the revolting of the Princes of Germany against the Emperour The bloody warre of the subjects in France 20. years against their King Holland against Spain to this day the Suitzers amongst themselves SCOTLAND first against Queen Mary and then our late gracious King Nevertheless Ministers are so bold as to speak this who can neither be subject to Kings Magistrats nor Bishops if they oppose their whimsyes in the least Every one of them taking greater power to himself then Catholicks gives to St. Peter Duply Any one may here perceive a Prote ∣ stants Answer studied shift by way of recrimination Because ye date not declare your selves herein And do you indeed detest the Doctrine of the whole Canonists the whole Jesuits that the Pope may depose a lawful King If it be so I am glade you renounce this point of Poperie But because you say I fight with my own shaddow herein to shew how ignorant and impudent you are in this denyal Let any read either the bull of Gregory the seventh against Henry the fourth the Emperor or of Sixtus the 5 against Henry the third King of France or of Pius the fifth against Elizabeth Queen of England and there ye will find this tennor Nos in supremo justitia throne collocati supremam in omnes Reges Principes Terrae universae cunctosque populos gentes Nationes non humana sed divina institutione obtinentes nobis traditam potestatem declaramus praecipimus jubemâ—s c. Viz. That none of their subjects should owne oâ— acknowledge them For your better information in this particular know that the power of the Pope in this particular is one way explained by the Canonists and another way by the Jesuits For the Canonists say that the Pope hath jura omnia caelestis terrestris imperii sibi à Deo concessa The Jesuits that Pontifex ut Pontifex non habet directe ullum temporalem potestatâ—m sed solum spiritualem tamen indirecte ratione spiritualis habet potestatem quandam eaâ—â—que summam disponendi de temporalibus rebus omnium Christianorum See more of this in Dr. Barclay de potestate Papae in Principes Christianos They hold it beyond doubt that in ordine ad spiritualia which is a broad charter the Pope may depose any King and loose their subjects from all allegiance to him cum subest causa rationalis †Anno 1654. When it was Printed at Naples by authority that the Pope should not exercise jurisdiction civil in the territories of Spain without the Kings leave this was condemned at Rome by Innocent the tenth Secondly They hold that Bishops may omnem moverâ— lapâ—dem and that is a broad word ne degant sub Haeretico Principe Baron anno 438. Sect. 89. Thirdly When the knowledge of the fault is evident Subjects may lawfully if they have sufficient strength exeem themselves from subjection to their Prince Baniâ—s on Thomas quastion 12. and that ante judicis sententiam declaratoriam Lastly Privat persons may kill an Heretical King after sentence is given against him Suarez defens fidei Cathol lib. 6. cap. 4. only their tenderness appeareth in this that the King be not constrained wittingly or willinglie to be the cause of his own death the sense is thiâ— if you can poyson him by his gloves garment or saddle you may do it But by meat or drink you may not for then he taketh his own poyson So John Mariana de Reg. instit lib. 1. cap. 7. Is it not then true that by principles of doctrine no Papist adhering to the Pope can be a loyal subject to the King As for our Reformations ye look on all such with an evil eye But our doctrine in the reformed Church concerning the Magistrat is such that no Christians on earth give him more then we do Witness out Confession of Faith to which we will adhere while we live what ever the scripture and pure antiquitie giveth to Kings that we willingly tender for conscience sake All sound Protestants do abhorre and detest the murther of our late Soveraign Lord the King and we in this Nation did protest and declare against it for which our Commissioners were committed close prisoners and sent with a guard to the border As for the Reformation abroad I desire that famous Mr. Baxter his Key for Catholicks and disswasive from Popery may be read by you who hath written so well on this point that I hope all men satissiable may be satisfied with his reasons which I need not here transcribe See also the testimonie of the Ministers at London against that horride murther to which testimonie we do still adhere and then adbered But Quis tulerit Gracchos de seditione c. †See Bilson of Subjection page 382. Doth not your great Cardinal Allen write an Apologie for Stanles treason against Queen Elizabeth Doth not Bellarmin shew lib. 5. de Pontif. cap. 8. in how many respects Kings may be deposed by their subjects Did not Pope Sixtus the fifth make an Oration at Rome in commendation of the Friar who murthered Henry the third King of France Was not Tyrones treason commenced and commended by your Party who then did take on the coâ—â— of Armes and sound the trumpet of rebellion When the Popes Bull roared in England against Queen Elizabeth how many treasons were hatched and evil humours bred in the people Thirteenthly Ye say we are justified partlie by faith partlie by workes but the § 13. Inst Scripture saith that we are justified by faith without the works of the law and that the man is justified to whom the Lord imputeth faith without workes Rom. 4. 6. and that we are saved by grace through faith not of workes lest any man should boast Neither can any good workes be wrought by us till we be justified and sanctified how can an evil tree bring forth good fruit Nor can we understand any good work which the law doth not require seeing it was tendered under the Covenant of grace Beside our best worksare leavened with many imperfections and debt for the present so these cannot absolve us for bygones or the time to come And whereas the Apostle James chapter 2. speaketh of Justification by workes his purpose there is onlie to declare what justifieth faith Now justifying faith must be a lively working faith and if it be dead it availeth not and if he hint at personal justification which verse 29. implyeth it is before men and that before the Tribunal of GOD there
all must say Enter not into judgement with thy servant for in thy sight no flesh living â—â—n be justified Psalm 143. 2. And the Church must confess that all her righteousness is ragged and as a menstruous cloath Reply In your thirteenth Section you denying Papists Reply that we are justified by faith and works do both contradict scripture and your self It in the Epistle of St. James chap. 2. verse 20. 24. You see then how by works a man is justified and not by faith only No wonder after this ye contradict your self when you grant that faith is justifying or made justified by works For what is it to say that works justify faith But that faith without works is not justifying And so that faith justifyeth not all or no other way then as it is decompanied with good workes as two conjunct causes For as the Philosopher saith causa causae est causa causati But what needeth any reasoning if this place be not clear to a Minister what it clear to ignorants in all the scripture Wherefore ye had done better to reject the Epistle of James with Luther then to acknowledge it for scripture to deny that we are justified by faith and works the two parts of Christian dutie being belief and life Yet to shew that the place of St. James is not to be taken according to the letter you cite three passagâ—â— excluding workes of the written law from justifying but not excluding workes of grace and the Gospel The first whereof expoundeth the rest and St. Augustin them all de fide operib cap. 14. saying St. Paul speaketh of the workes of Abraham in so much as they proceed from the law excluding the spirit and grace of Christ Then you say neither can any good work be wrought by us till we are justified for how can an evil tree bring forth good fruit To which Question I answer with our Saviour in the Gospel asking how a good tree can bring forth evil fruit as David committing adulterie For if you understood the one you may easilie understand the other Which if you do not go to the school and learn the distinction betwixt simpliciter and secundum quid betwixt good and evil simplie and in part For as there be few so good but they do some evil so there be few so bad but they do some good being assisted by GODS actual grace albeit they want sanctifying grace Yea very good actions may be done with some little imperfection which maketh the Prophet compare our righteousness to a menstruous cloath Duply You are like to your self all along in this reflection for I cannot call it a return Prote ∣ stants Duply seeing you have a flourish of fectless words for catching women and children but do not touch the arguments proposed for justification by faith without the workes of the law My first argument was this That the Apostle Paul saith we are justified by faith without the workes of law therefore not by them You say he meaneth not of workes of grace What then Of sinful workes before Coversion And is it indeed like that sinful workes can be called by the Apostle workeâ— of the law seeing these are transgressions of the law Or that the justitiaries amongst the Romans in the dayes of the Apostle were so gross as to assert that sinful workes justifie a man which condemn him Secondly you say that justification by faith contradicteth scripture James 2. 24. which place I explained and reconciled with the 4. of the Romanes and all you say to that is that I contradict my self I said workes justifie faith for my faith is known by my works to my self and others But that will nor say that workes and faith justifie the man So I clash not with my self here And for your Maxime causa causae est causa causati If I understand this you contradict your self in the application of it for faith being the cause of workes and justifying the man workes are the effect of justificatâ—on not the cause of it Hence the Apostle James saith shew me thy faith by thy workes O man For it cannot be showen without workes v. 18. Albeit we say that faith alone justifieth yet that Fides sola in approhendendo non est solitaria My next argument was that a man must be justified before he can work well therefore workes are not the cause of justification I hope you will not say that the effect is antecedent to its cause if you have read Ramus Logick And that a man must be justified before he can work well I prove thus He must be sanctified Ergo c. a corrupt tret cannot bring forth good fruit Matth. 7. 18. Ere you have not something to say to this you close with Pelagius for a defence and speak non-sense For you say that you answer with our Saviour by a distinction of that which is simply such and secundum quid In what part of the Gospel is this Logick to be found For it is clear from the verse above cited that our Saviour denyeth simply the thing so he granteth it not secundum quid Some good acts you say may be done by evil men being assisted by actual grace I would know if actual grace can be in exercise where habitual grace is not at all then if men habitually evil in an unconverted state can do any thing well That something materially good may be done by them as well as sin may be committed by the regenerated I doubt not but that they can do ought upon a good principle for a good end by a good morive I deny it simply Now if they be not such they cannot justifie a mâ—n For nullum agens potest agere extra Spharâ—m suae activitatis Till he be sanctified he cannot be be such till he be justified he cannot be sanctified Workes justifie no more the man then the fruit maketh the tree good My third Reason you leave untouched which was this that the present time requireth all our work Ergo it cannot justifie us for bygones or the future What is now debituns cannot pay my bygone debt nor free me for the time to come And you grant all I have said in the fourth that our best workes are unperfect and so cannot hold water before the Tribunal of GOD. I am glade to hear you grant so much for then where will workes of supererogation and merit appear For further clearing of our Doctrine of Justification take notice the Papists and we thus differ First They say there is a two fold justification one whereby a mâ—n unjust is made just for attaining this there must be previous dispositions by the acts of faith fear hope love whch fit the man for his justification some of them terme this Meritum congrui others say tâ—at this is the free gift of GOD not deserved by workes The second Justification is that whereby â— man being just is made more just this they say is merited by their workes and proceedeth
the unlawfulness of it nor all the Rhetorick of Muretus can wipe off For as an excellent Poet saith on that subject Maribus ore oculis atque auribus undique ano Et pene erumpit qui tuus iste cruor Non tuus iste cruor sanctorum at caede cruorem Quâ—m ferus hausisti non poteras coquere Eighteenthly Ye call your selves the Universal Church which was never attributed § 18. Inst. to the Church of Rome in the Apostle Paul his time notwithstanding that then their faith was spoken of through all the world Rom. 1. 8. Beside ye are but a particular Church at best not so numerous as we and the Greek Church are with whom we joyn in one Confession except about the manner of the ProcessioÌ„ of the Holy Ghost As witnesseth their Confession set forth in the name of the Greek Church by Cyrillus Patriarch of CoÌ„stantinople and printed Anno 1633. which booke can easily be produced Whereas ye bragge of Unity ye are great Schismaticks renting the universall Church and taking the tittle from them to your selves Ye are miserably divided within as appeareth from the strong factions of the Councill of Trent and these hot skirmishes amongst Jesuâ—ts Dominicans and Jansenists lasting to this day Moreover the scripture calleth Rome Bâ—bylon the scarlet whore according to your own Interpreters upon Rev. 17. 18. which Babylon is to be destroyed Reply You accuse us for calling our selves the Universal Church and yet would willingly Papists Reply take that title to your selves if the common practâ—se in all Ages to your shame and discreâ—it did not oppose it None acknowledging your Church under this title but all generâ—lly ours But I have heretofore told you why the Roman Church is called the Catholick as being the Mother Church constantly since the Apostles times which hath a power of head-ship and jurisdiction over all the rest holding communion with her through out the world Then you say we are but a particular Church not so numerous as ye and the Grecians with whom ye joyn in one Confession of Faith except about the manner of the procession of the Holy Ghost Which it seemeth you hold but as a trissle although it maketh no distinction betwixt the second and the third Person of the Trinity for where there is no Procession and relative opposition in the Trinitie there is no distinction say Divines after Iohn Damascene yet notwithstanding ye joine with this in the confession of faith albeit they plainly disclaim them in the censure of the Orientall Church where chap. 7. 12. 13. 21. they hold Transubstantiation seven Sacraments an unbloody sacrifice prayers to the saints and for the dead whatever you alleadge of that confession of faith printed only in the last year But however this sheweth the Protestants weaknes and wavering faith that they claim the Grecians and Lutherians albeit both do openly disclaim them Neither do you prove better our division amongst our selves seing all the parties in the Council of Trent subscrived the Canons thereof nor doth the hot skirmishes betwixt Jesuits and Dominicans in school questions hinder their Unity in all the tenets of the Catholick Church both being willing to subscribe them with their blood as amongst Jesuits many do to this day As for Jansenists we altogether disowne them and to make you more numerous if ye please are well content that in many things you call them yours I am content also Rome be called the scarlet whore Rev. 17. 18. viz. Rome under Pagan Empeâ—ours But was not the Church of Rome then in her greatest integrity and virginity under the Apostleâ— St. Peter and Paul who praising her faith as spoken of through the world both declare her Universality and speak of her preheminence Duply I had reason to challenge your usurpation Prote ∣ stants Duply of the Catholick title for your own Pighius Eccl. hierarch lib. 6. cap. 3. saith Quis unquam per Romanam Ecclesiam intellexis universalem He thinketh it absurd and repugnant and so it is As for the Grecians I can presently produce their Confession †See it set down after the Preface Printed not the last year but 30. years ago and upward wherein they disclaim seven Sacraments the unbloody service of the Masse prayers to Saints or for the Dead Purgatory Transubstantiation c. And Dr. Rivet in his 3. Tom. pag. 1257. setteth down at length how the Jesuits by money and moyen of the French Ambassadour accused the same Cyrillus of treason before the grand Segniour and said that he favoured the King of great BRITTAIN by which accusation he was for a time thrust out of charge and forced to flee anno 1627. but afterwards by the good providence of GOD restored the Greek Church would owne no other Patriarch during his absence and how sore he was persecuted thereafter see Hornbeck in his Summa Contro As for the Jansenists you gift us with them calling them ours So Augustin and the Dominicans are ours also in this so your unity and universality â—s not so much as you pretend You grant also that the scarlet whore Rev. 17. and Babylon is Rome but under the Heathen Emperour and not as it is now under the Pope Your own Ribera refuteth you fully in this for he saith †So saith Sixtus Senensis and Baronius also that it must be meaned of Apostat Rome in the time of Antichrist because she is called an adulteress the mother of harlots but there can be no adultery where Marriage was not once Secondly The people of GOD are required to leave her lest they partake of her plagues But they were never incorporated with Pagan Rome as Christians for they had no communion with Pagan Idols Ergo if your Church be the Mother of Fornications and less numerous then these who hold the Scripture for the rule in no sense can ye be called the Catholick Church Ninthteenthly Ye make the Pope Christs § 19. Inst. Vicâ—r on Earth Peters successour the head of the Church an infallible man a Demi-God Whereas all the Apostles were equal in power and dignity Matth. 20. 26. And Cyprian lib. 3. de unitate Ecclesiae saith hoc idem Petrus quod reliqui Apostoli pareâ— consortio dignitate Peter was one with the rest of the Apostles in dignity and fellowship Ambros de Sp. S. lib. 2. cap. ult Nec Paulus est inferior Petro. see August ad Hieron epist 97. and Hierom ad Evagr and Cyprian epist ad Quintum 71. Prophets and Apostles were not infallible except in penning the Scripture Did not Moses speak unadvisedly Psalm 106. 33. the Prophet Elisha professeth that the case of the Shunamit was hid from him 2. Kings 4. 27. Nathan gave forth a verdict to day and made a retractation to morrow 2. Sam. 7. Peter controuled the Heavenly vision and knew not what to do Acts 10. 17. And shal your sinful Popes then be infallible who will believe it Is it not then
not to be expected here So ye shew your selves conscious enough of your own divisions and if you understand it in matters of faith it is a blasphemy against Gods word which saith that there be but one GOD one Faith one Baptism If one faith then no division of faith without which no unity can consist So judge you if it be not only a solecism in reason as you speak but also in belief to joyn with the Grecians in Confession of Faith albeit they deny the procession of the Holy Ghost which ye believe or with the Lutherians who hold the real presence of Christs body in the Sacrament which ye flatly deny Duply You grant that the Pope according to Hierom was first chosen that the occasion Prote ∣ stants Duply of Schism might be taken away Then it is clear that the Pope is not Dominicae dispositionis and that Hierom nor the Fathers did ever dream of his Monarchical Empire as Casaubon ad Barronii Annales proveth well Exercit. 15. A Prolocutor is the most they give to the Apostle Peter they call him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aut 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this will not make a Pope so by adhereing to Hierom you destroy the Pope And not only was he of this opinion but your own Medina telleth us de sacrorum hominum origini that Ambrose Chrysostom Theodoret Theophylact Oecumenius Sedulius Primasius mantained the same And it is clear that Augustin in quaest Veteris Novi Testament quaest 101. homologaâ—â—h all this I 'le help you further herein to shew that I am no adversary to truth Gregory the Pope prophecied that whoso counted himself universal Bishop was Anti-Christ And writting to John Patriarch of Constantinople epist 38. lib. 4 who did usurpe that tittle he calleth him Rex superbiae Which title Boniface did take on afterwards by Phocas means who killed his Master Mauritius and fulfilled the prophecie of Gregorie Neither John Patriarch of Constantinople nor Boniface excluded other Bishops as Esthius laboureth by this reply to make evasion For both in the Eastern and Western Churches at that time there were Bishops whom they acknowledged such But he is universal Bishop according to Gregorie who layeth claim to the universal supremacy and extolleth himself above all as the Pope now doth in the Church at Rome I shal shut up this answer with that famous consideration of Bernard to Pope Eugenius the 4. which words Antonius de Dominis Arch Bishop of Spalato citteth for refutation of the Popes supremacie Politia Ecclesiast lib. 5. cap. 2. the words are these Hoc quod habuit Petrus hoc dedit solicitudinem quippe super Ecclesias Dominationem nunquam audi ipsum non Dominantes inquit in clerum 1. Peter 5. 3. Et ne dictum sola humilitate non ettam veritate videatur vox Domini est in Evangelio Reges Gentium Dominantur vos non lic I ergo â—u inquit aude tibi usurpare Apostolicus Dominatum aut Dominant Apostolatum plane ab alterutro prohiberis This was written in the 12. Centurie and is a full testimonie proving that Bernard thought not Papal jurisdiction of divine appointment Now sir did you nor palpablie contradict your self here when formerly you equalized your Pope to Prophets Apostles and made your universal High-Bishop jure Divino by saying that the evil of Schism occasioned his election at first if so it is juris humani at best and thus you agree with Hierom. Secondly You would father a contradiction on me because I regrate our rents proceeding from the evil use of Gospell-light as if we held not one confession of faith A child may conceive that the abuse of Gospel-light supposeth the light but it is evil used practically and this maketh our breaches in other things It is beyond controversie that the nationall stroaks under which we groan have chiefly proceeded from the evil use of the Gospell Light hath come amongst us but we have walked in darkness Will it therefore follow that we are not one dogmatically in the orthodox confession of faith Where is this consequence founded Neither doth the Popedome cure rents but rather make them Experience proveth this cure to be the fomenter of the disease For since his usurpation moe controversies have been started in the Christian Church then formerly were heard And if this wer the cure it is admirable that wheÌ„ the case was in Corinth there is no mention of that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thirdly You deny that it hath been the sentence or deeree oecumenical that the Councill was above the Pope Was it not expresly defined by the Councill of Basil and doth not the 15 Act of the Councill of Chalcedon say that the Roman Church hath no priviledge above others from Christ But the reason why at any time they had it was because it was the seat of the Roman Empire and that the Bishop of Constantinople hath equall priviledges with the Pope Doe not all your Sorbonists preferre the councill to the Pope and all your Jesuits the Pope to the Councill Where is your Unitie then for as Bellarmin saith In hoc consistit summa rei viz. â—n the Popes infallible universall supremacie without which there is no salvation to be â—â—ad Also ye make it a fundamental article of your Creed which is more then the opinion of privat Doctours And the very truth is it is the foundtion and key-stone of Popery Quo sublato omnia corruunt as he saith there in his Preface to the Treatise de summe Pontisice De qua re agitur cum de primatu Pontisicis agitur Breviter respondeo de summa rei id enim quaeritur debeâ—tne Ecclesia duitius consistere an vero dissolvi concidere Then ye betake your self to this hold that the Pope is above a Council not approved by himself and the Council approveed by him above the Pope But as I said before this giveth no more to a Council then to a Session for if the Pope approve that it is above his own single approbation in regard of the additameÌ„t to it The only question is when they differ whose sentence is to be preferred And about this ye differ much amongst your selves consequently in fundamentals for this is caput rei Fourthly You quarrel with us for saying that perfect unity in all things is not to be expected here And yet it is express Scripture 1. Cor. 13. 9. Phil. 3. 15. founded upon experience How then call you it blasphemie Unitas in fundamentalibus libertas in supra fundameÌ„talibus charitas in omnibus is a saying much commended by many and did we blaspheme by uttering this golden sentence We are in charity with the Lutheran and Greek Church because they hold the same rule with us viz the Scripture The Reformed Churches have a body of Confessions in which they have Concord and we in this Church have one Catechism and one Confession of Faith in which we all agree But to think that because of some
other differences we are not for one GOD one Faith one Baptism it is absurd to speak so Question thirteenth May there not as yet Papists qu. 13 be an accommodation and union betwixt you and us Answer Will ye be like the Church at Rome to which the Apostle Paul did wâ—ite Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 his Epistle we will presently accord with any prosessing that faith and not destroying it by contradicting consequences and practices But ye are no more like that Church of Rome except in name then a strumpet is like to a Virgin The Epistle to the Romans is now against the Romans witness the point of Justification and subjection to the higher powers Secondly Will ye take the Scripture for the only rule of faith worship and manners We differ from none such But ye regard not the Scripture so much as your own traditions For ye fainzie that it is imperfect obscure must have an authoritie from your word otherwise that it is not to be believed Thirdly Those who have intended that work have lost their labour and thanks at all hands as Cassander Antonius de Dominis Barnesius Forbesius What agreemeÌ„t can the Temple of God have with Idols 2. Cor. â— 14. Reply In your 13. Section you answer to a Papists Reply Question which no Catholick would have made if ye understand by an accommodation betwixt you and us such as are in Scottish Trysts We granting something to you and ye something to us For as to gain the whole world a man should not lose his own soul so neither can be quyt one article of his faith without which it is impossible to please God But your way being better asking only two conditions to make this so much desired agreement The first is if ye will be like that Church of Rome to which the Apostle Paul did write his Epistle And the second is that we will take scripture for a rule We most willingly grant you both not taking scripture as every bungler who wresteth it but according to the exposition of the Church and the unanimous consent of the fathers Appoint the meeting where ye please on these terms He challenge no moe calumnies on this Question seeing now we are in terms of agreement having sufficiently confuted them before Duply You say no Catholick would have moved the question Are ye nâ—â— for unitie in the Lord amongst all Christians where is Prote ∣ stants Duply 1 your charitie now I remember you said once nothing here was mentioned by me but what was mentioned by others but now you graunt this hath nor come to your ears formerly this is strange Have you not seen Grotius and de Sancta Clara who move the same wheel At first you seem to be against all accommodation asmuch as against all reformation You cannot quite on article not unum jot a saith Bellarmin otherwise your Church might be declared fallible therefore such as hanker after reconciliation with you unless they mind to come up your length will prove fools in the end and lose all their labour Yet on a sudden you forget your self accepting of these terms offered but in repetition you embezle them unfaithfully For first will ye be like that Church to which the Apostle Paul did writ in point of justification by faith and subjection to the Magistrat These two you leave out being conscious that ye are contrar to divine direction in both these And how cometh it to pass that when the Apostle chap. 16. saluteth so many Saints at Rome he omitteth the Pope If he was then head of the Church and maketh no mention of his supremacie nor of their subjectioÌ„ to him which is summa rei one of your fundamentals seeing chap. 13. he ordained them for conscience sake to be subject to Nero. The world may see that the Apostle Paul hath been no Papist Secondly When you propound the second condition it is propounded lame barely you say that ye hold the Scripture for a ruleâ— but I said for the only rule of faith worship and manners Hold that then ye renounce traditians in matters of faith for the law of the Lord is perfect Ps 19. The Popes infallibility and univeâ—sal supremacie your latine worship communion under one kind prayers to Saints and for the dead Purgatory all which are clearly confuted by Scripture So if ye do not adhere to these conditions the meeting will be to smal purpose where ever it be appointed Justin Martyr Expos recta fidei saith Amongst the children of the Church matters divine must not be ordered and directed according to mens reason and thoughts but our speach and interpretation of them should be sitted to the sense and will of the Spirit of GOD. Basil in Exercit. de Fide It is a manifest defection from the faith and a clear evidence of pride either to reject any of these things which the Scripture contain or to bring in as a point of faith any thing which is not written in the word and he citeth that of our blessed Lord Iohn 10. 5. My sheep hear my voice a stranger they will not hear but flee from him Hilar. lib. 1. de Trinit when we speak of divine matters let us give to GOD the knowledge of himself and let us with all veneration follow his sayings for he is a meâ—t witness to himself who is not known but by himself Aug. lib. 6. Conf. cap. 5. Thou hast perswâ—ded me O GOD that not these men who believe these books which thou in all Ages hast founded upon thy authority are to be blamed but such as believe them not neither are they to be heard If any perchance should say to me whence knowest thou these books to have been ministred to man-kind by the Spirit of the one and most true GOD even that very same thing was mostly to be believed Aug. lib. 2. de Baptismo contra Donatist as Let us not bring false ballanceâ— wherein we may weigh what we will and as we will according to our own arbitriment saying this is heavy that is light but let us bring the divine ballance out of the holy Scriptures as the Lords treasurie and let us weigh in it what is more heavy and weighty Yea let us not weigh only but also acknowledge scriptuval truths to be weighed and determined alreadie by the Lord. Si Scriptura habeat controversiam ex eadem Scriptura adhibitis ejus testibus terminâ—tur Aug. de doctr Chr. lib. 3. cap. 28. Papists Quest. 14 Question fourteenth We are still gaiâ—ing Proselyts from you but few turne off from us and become members of your Church Answere Your pelf and policie is greater Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 then ours hereby simple soules are ensnared Secondly Ye give indulgencies for looseness this catcheth prophaine ones who love to live at random but without some such carnall design or prejudice we hear not that any turn off from us Thirdly Have not sundrie left Rome in the integrity of their heart and closed
uncleanness which would make chaste ears to â—ingle And that men who in hainously are not bound to repent imediatly as it is fully proved by Reverend Learned Mr. MENZIES in his Papismus Lucifugus pag. 158. to 169. And when it is defended that minus probabile may be chosen although it have no ground in scripture contrar to more probable grounds and the stream of Doctors doth not this open a door to make the may of Christianity broad whereas the scripture calleth it strait and narrow Thus ye gaine proselites And it is observable that manâ— loose livers in the land who are adversarieâ— to the power and puritie of Religion hate to be reformed do encline to Popery And to me it is not minus probabile that it is only upon this account We are not against fasting chastity mortification Nor do we say that men sin not willingly or that good workes are impossible yea we hold them necessar to salvation Only we deny that faln man can be justified by the workes of the law otherwise we needed not a Saviour not a Gospell-remedy It is your ordinar way to mistate questions and then intend a skirmish which is easie work this is a sinfull and shallow evasion Thirdly You fall out with bauling expressions which rational men cannot value much and scoâ—fe at these worthies who did take their lives in their hands and closed with persecuted truth neither for gaine nor for honor but for conscience sake Was not this a commendable duty If self denyall be not a chief ingredient in Christian performances I know not the Gospell You assert that it was blindness not integrity I averse it was integrity and not blindness Who art thou that judgest another mans servant remember thou shalt be judged You talk much concerning the authority and unity which is amongst you but some who were at Rome and have come not long ago from you to us againe tell what sort of integritie puritie and chastitie is amongst you So it is no wonder albeit many tongues and pennâ— be employed to pull down that whorish Babell which ye call Zion Fourthly You imply that none can be saved but such as are subject to the Pope Therefore our run-awayes must nor be apostats with you for they are Prodigals returned and lost sheep found When I pray you went they from you to us Were they not baptized in our Church and partakers of all ordinances with us till of late Then I pose you and them again whither ye damn all who are not Popish and judge them unconverted If they be Hereticks in your sense this must follow Yet you have nor the confidence to speak it directly And sure I am Scripture requireth not subjection to the Pope as an article of the Creed If without this â— man cannot be saved albeit he believe and live like the Gospel the Apostle Paul was no chosen Vessel which is contrar to Scripture there was no Pope in his dayes nor long after that Your Church hath been visible by bell book and candle fire faggot pomp policie Your Pastours are more for the fleece then the flock Ye are superstitiouâ— by addition substractioÌ„ multiplication without any warrand Your Ceremonies are partly Paganish partly Jewish and for the most Schismatick so not religious nor venerable Your miracles woÌ„ders are such that it is good for you to have them wrought in America and told in Europe Like are ye to him who cometh with lies and wonderâ— 2. Thess 2. 9. Your conscience can witness what Leger-demain is in these And it is our way to try miracles by the Scripture I wish Infidels were converted to the Christian faith and not to a faction By the Scripture noâ— by fopperies and military Compulsators Stephen the Apostles and some primitive Fathers were Martyrs but they died not in the Romish Faith as it is now mantained And how can your Church be called Catholick which is a particular one wherein be many dissenters It is not strange to us albeit ye indulge them who runne away and Apostatize from us but it is strange why they have done so and what hath sascinated them to burst all bonds and swallow on a sudden the whole bulk of Popery It requireth an Ostrich stomach to digest such iron Where in did Gospel-truths Gospel-worship or their mother and nurse weary them testifie against her if they can Fifthly You say we have Faith without unity then you grant us faith and our unity in fundamentals is more then your own A Church without a head We acknowledge no Pope head of our Church Christ is our head and the visible Government of the Church is Aristocratical not Monarchical the mystical Members of his Body are united in him so we are not a body without united members Neither want we a Judge in controversal matters It is known that many points of Christianity cannot be judged by râ—en because the Kingdom of Grace is within us and consisteth not in meat or drink but righteousness peace and joy in the holy Ghost Rom. 14. 17. Who will say that the hidden man in the heart can be cognosced by any external living judge on earth The spiritual man â—udgeth all things but he himself is judged of no man 1. Cor. 2. 15. The written word is the rule of this and other such cases For other matters we have Councils and Church Ruleâ—s appointed by the supream Judge who are bound to discern according to Scripture and all are appointed to obey them in the Lord so we have not a Law without a Judge The golden Altur is our Altar we have sacrifices of Prayer and Praises and one living sacrifice is better then many carcases that is reasonable service Rom. 12. 1. Then we have order and decencie and such positives as set forth the worship in a Gospel way without pâ—mpous observation therefore we lack not an Altar Sacrifices and Ceremonies in such manner as Gospel-work under the New Testament requireth Our Sacraments are instruments to seal and sanctifie our rule is infallible for it is Scripture the grounds of our faith are such as will not make us ashamed for we have his revealed will and word for it Therefore it is a calumny to say we have Sacraments which do not sanctifie Doctrine without infallibility and Belief without a ground If our Preachers had runne unsent the Lord had not sealed their Ministrie with such success Ier. 23. 32. It may be spoken without vanity to the praise of free-grace that there be many real sincere serious solid Christians in BRITTAIN Blessed be the Lord we go not without our CoÌ„verts who can speak with any adversary in the gate And they will and do bless our Ministry upon the brink of eternity which hath been the power of GOD to their Salvation So our Ministry is not without a call we say not that any divine command is in it self impossible to be keeped but that fallen man through his own fault is imperfect in obedience
and without Christ can do nothing Iohn 15 5. If you say more speak it out for it will be plain Pelagianism Exhorrations and communications are means to make us willing and obedient It is not in our power to think a good thought as of our selves dare you deny this Why then fall you fondly on us speaking with the Scripture Luke 17. 10. By grace we are saved freely through faith and eternal life is the gift of GOD the reward is a free remuneration and may be without our merits we grant free-will in Augustins sense and Jansenius proveth that this is true liberty by arguments which were never yet answered But we do disclaim Jesuitical indifferencie because it taketh away divire providence the power of grace and setteâ—h up anti-providences from the will of man Because we sin willingly who can deny that we are punished justly Neither take we the Scripture Catalogue from the Iewes but make use of reason testimonies from old Writters universal consent to be a porch for eâ—trie to the knowledge of the numerick controversie and how can you say so of our Catalogue seeing we mantain no book to be Scripture but such as ye allow And are ye not helped by the Jewes herein as wel as we Only we lay that the authority of the Scripture dependeth not on humane testimonie as upon its principal foundation nor yet upon unwritten tradition because divine faith must be begotten by a divine testimonie And we believe the Scriptures authority and truth side lâ—â—ina because the Lord hath spoken it In this true faith must be finally resolved else it is not divine It is a calumny to say we patch the Word seeing we make Scripture the only rule of our faith There be none in the Christian Church who adde such patches to the word of GOD as ye Our Reformation had authority both from Heaven and men on earth The Lawes of the Land can restifie this which are yet in vigor for it and against you And there may be new light in time of darkness which was formerly dimmed or put out which light is the good old light proceeding from the Father of lights If ye condemned this the world should have still continued Arrian when it was over-clouded with it and all Reformation even the Scripture one is unlawful see you not your absurdity here Yea it was prophesied Dan. 12. 4. that in the latter times knowledge should encrease and light also be extended but light without verity deserveth not the name Privat men have the liberty of discerning allowed to them Acts 17. 11. 1. Io. 4. 1. Yea such may have publict spirits and be called to publict employments But what you mean by this I conceive not For the Gospel worship which we mantain hath the consent of all the Scriptures Churches and primitive Fathers as is formerly proved to the full We wish the hearts of all our Pastors may be established by grace that they may be subjected to him who hath the government on his shoulder and by their faith working by love glorifie the chief Shepheard of the stock We will not recriminat ralling for railing but it were easie to shew Ye have a Church composed state-wayes Your policie devouâ—eth all pâ—â—ty Your superstitious vowes against marraâ—ge all chastity Your impeaching of the Scriptures all divine verity Your blind allegiance to the Pope all loyalty Your superstitious buskings all puritie Your worship in an unknown tongue all fervencie Your addition to the one Sacrament and mutitation of the other all sincerity Your universal infallible supremacie all primitive antiquity It is not long since this Reply came to my hand at the first view whereof I intended to take in and discuss arguments proposed by Dr. Vane in that Pamphlet entituled The lost sheep found And these contained in another of the same kind called Presbytries tryall And to survey the other two entituled The Touchstone and Fâ—at lux But finding the substance of all these in this reflecter and that he hath little of his own but maketh malt for the most of their barley by answering this all the foure are macerially answered which a discerning Reader will find to be true Now to close I obtest all who read this Vindication of the reformed Religion to consider the cause seriously without partialitie pride passion prejudice Remember that Iames 2. 1. Have not the faith of our Lord Iesus with respect of persons And the spirit of truth lead you into all truth The spirit of errour and lies be rebuked and resisted by the Lord That a pure offering may be offered to Him from the rising of the Sun to the going down thereof FINIS A POSTSCRIPT Containing an Advertisement and Advice to the Merchants of DVNDIE who travell abroad that they be not ensnared with the fopperies of Poperie AFter the writting of this VINDICATION I judged it expedient to give this word of Advertisement and Advice to such as be called by their affairs to negotiaâ— in Countreys where the Popish worship is only professed and mantained Because many travellers return home from these places as that French fool came back from Rome who passing through Ravenna least he should return empty to his friends gathered in that Forrest a multitude of bees and flees which being closed into a cloath bagge he poured forth amongst his relatives to their prejudice and offence And all they gained by his voyage was made up of stings and buzings So when travellerâ— return from forrain Nations either Neutral Nullisidians or leavened with Popish saperstition what is their purchase Nothing that can edifie any Will ever practical Atheism Gallioeâ— temper or tampering betwixt truth and errour advantage a man at the long runne Not at all These will sting like a serpent more then themselves a wound and dishonour may they have by it but nothing else The hazard which some Travellers tunne cannot be unknown to you For the man who in this City hath become Popish and stingeth some is thought by all that know him to have received the first dye thereof abroad when he travelled thither And although the flecks of that pestiferous malady broke nor forth immediatly after his return till the Carduns Maledictus of prejudice against some fellow Citizens made them appear yet there probably he was first infected Now if he who was gifted above many Merchants catched so sore a back-ward fall abroad that he hath now turned his back on that Church wherein he was born and iostered Have ye not reason with full purpose of heart to cleave to the truth of GOD which can only set you free It is not for nought that our Saviour said to his Disciples Luke 17. 32. Remember Lots wife It is certain that the Church of SCOTLAND is a great eye-sore to Papists and they craftily lay snareâ— to seduce her members at home and abroad Their hooks are feathered with variety of colours and the Convent at Rome de Propagan fide furnisheth many Emissaries who
A VINDICATION OF THE REFORMED RELIGION From the Reflections of a ROMANIST Written for Information of all who will receive the Truth in Love By WILLIAM RAIT Minister of the Gospel at DUNDIE 2 Cor. 13. 8. We can do nothing against the Truth but for the Truth Cyprianus ad Pompeium epist 74. Quae ista obstinatio est quave praesumptio humanam traditionem divinae dispositioni anteponere net animadvertere indignari irasci Deam quoties divina pracepta soluit praeterit humana traditio Sine causa colunt me mandata doctrinas hominum docentes ABERDENE Printed by IOHN FORBES Younger Printer to the Town andVniversitie dwelling on the Mercat-place 1671. To the truly Honorable and really Religious The Laird of HALGREEN Elder Grace and Peace be multiplied SIR The great work of a Christian in the world is to preferr Heaven to Barth the law of the Lord to the law of sin Gospell concernments to all earthly interests when the one cometh in competition wiâ—â— or opposition to the other The first fall of man as the schooâ— termeth it was Aversio a Deo and conversio ad creaturam A turning from God to the creature Then sin obtained precedencie to Grace folly to Wisdom lust to the law of God Our health and safety cometh in by recoverie and cure our victorie by a reserve therefore God sent his Son into the world with the Gospel remedy to turn us from ungodliness and worldly lusts Titus 2. 12. to wean us from the inordinate love of the substance and shaddowes of the world 1. Iohn 2. 15. to espouse our love to himself that we may be presented as a chaste Virgin to Christ 2 Cor 11. 2. For this we pray we preach we lâ—bour we make use of Ordinances and goe about every duty This is the scope and course of a Christian and whatever hindreth this design is not to be approved by him Wood hay stuble is not a Gospel cure Pure Religion and undefiled can only better the heart mortifie corruption subdue the body of death subject the whole man to the soveraignety of Iesus Christ mend the world and make men live holily righteously and soberly When this salve was rightly applyed in the primitive Church O how wonderfully did the Lord bless the cure and proved the medicine to be good by great successe How were men bound to their duty by the awe and love of GOD on their hearts that the very Heathens and Iewes â—â—eto amused and forced to give testimony to the doctrine that it was of GOD. But when men afterwards did beginne to mixe the wine with water and handle the word of GOD deceitfully They then became lovers of pleasure more then lovers of GOD then fell they in dotage with the pompe and pride of the world Which disease did break forth notoriously first at Rome thence it spread and infected many Churches Vrbs rea stagitiies urbs leâ—â—i causa putanda es Vrbs fera Tibrinae cui famulantur aquae As heathen Rome usurped dominion so Rome now being animated by the Pope and his Complices taking advantage by the division of Princes and encreasing her wealth by their wrack like some who live near the Sea as if there had been no law of Christ to deny our selves take up our cross and follow him turned the Gospel-simâ—â—â—citiâ— into state-policy and the Ppoe degenerating from the â—hristian carriage of primitive fathers sought secular greatness chiefly put on a triple Crown followed the pompe of the world And all this is done under the name of Christ pretence of Religion and in ordine ad spiritualia which maketh the sin more sinful and their way irreconcilable with the dogâ—atick saith of a Christian who believeth the Scripture The Church of Rome was once famous for Gospel profession Her saith was spoken of through all the world in Tertullians time who lived in the second centurie Rome hath this character from him lib de praescript adversus Haereticoâ— Felix Râ—mâ— cui totam doctrinam Apostoli cum sanguine suo profuderunt legem Prophetas cum Evangelicis Apostolicis literis miscet inde potat fidem eam aqua signat Spiritu Sancta vestil Eucharistia pascit martyrio exhortatur adversus hauc institutionem nominem recipit Happie Rome to whom the Apostles poured forth their doctrine with their blood who mixeth Law and Gospel together and drinketh in saith that way taketh on the Baptismal seal thus cloatheth her self with the graces of the Holy Ghost feedeth by the Sacrament of the Supper confirmeth the doctrine by martyrdome and receiveth none but on thâ—se termes Quantum mutatur O how great an alteration is there Rome is not like that which is was once For then they were made martyrs for the faith now they make martyrs for the same faith then they had pure ordirances now they pollute them all with superstition and humane inventions Bernard lib. 4. de consid ad Eugen. Invisi Terrae Coelo impii in Deum temtrarii in sancta seditiosi ad seiuvicem simplicissimi dissimulatores malignissimi proditores quos nominem amantes nemo amat c. The pâ—imitive Fathers studied modelty humility and Gospel carriage Cornelius to Cyprian in his Epistles breatheth forth much self-denyal Cyprian thaâ— holy Martyr at the Council of Carthage saith neque euim quisquoeÌ„ nostrum se Episcopum Episcoporum constituit i. e. None of us maketh himself an universal Bishop And divine Augustin writing to Hieromâ—pist 97. uttereth himself thus in multis rebâ—s Augustinus Hieronymo minor est this was Gospel like But now the Pope is the Prince of pride naming himself infallible consequently incorrigible by the same reason impeccable â—amomâ—is peccans in eo quod peccat errat Every man erreth in as much as he sinneth saith the school If our hope were in this life only and no retribution hereafter or if the Alcoran were our rule this deportment being full of carnal wisdom proclaimeth them witty politicianes But seeing the contâ—aâ— is sure by the undoubted word of GOD this their way is soâ—â—ly and it is admirable how understanding men approâ—â— their sayings This their way hath wronged Christianity highly and many sad effects have followed upon this pompous alteration of the Primitive frame First It hath turned many Italians who live near the Court of Rome voide of all true Religion and dyed them with Atheisme So that as it is reported of them in Print they will call proverbially their Idiots Christians and when they would name a fool they say he is a Christian as if Christianitie were a fable and high follie A discerning person who travelled through Italie many years ago told me that he heard some of them publicklie blaspheme Iesus Christ by words which should not be repeated and yet go unpunished This is the fruit of their state way For now it is far more like to the state of Rome noâ— the old Church of Rome Secondly It exposeth Christian