multitudes without exception anie one person are with them receiued into and reteined in the bozome of the Church 3 FOR that they haue a false Antichristian Ministerie imposed vpon them reteined with them and maintained by them 4 FOR that these Churches are ruled by and remaine in subiection vnto an Antichristian and vngodly gouernment cleane contrarie to the institutioÌ„ of our Sauiour CHRIST VVhen these things stand thus let him that readeth consider THE first Article is that which all Christians doo seek in dead but the kingdome of CHRIST or the kingdome of God as CHRIST saith is within men Yt consisteth in righteousnes peace ioye in the holy Ghost For the preseruation of this CHRIST hath ordeined a Church gouernmeÌ„t They sinne against God which do not couet and according to their calling labour to haue so great a help But to transport the name of Christs kingdome which is spirituall which is in the heart vnto this which is but a part and as though the kingdome of God could not be in anie vnlesse they haue this so they do not wilfully despise yt I say is false and the contrarie to be proued by the Scriptures OVR Article being by you confessed to be the bounden dutie of al true Christians we see not with what equitie you can in this maner cauil at our wordes or with what conscience you can misconstrue and constreine them as you doo seeking therby to retract by sleight what you cannot gainesay in truth And taking occasion to contend about wordes Namely the kingdome of CHRIST You make yt only inward and vse CHRIST as one of the Phisitians planitarie signes assigning to him in hipoctisie your heart soule to rule whilst in y e meane time you yeild your bodies and whole assemblies to the obedience and rule of Antichrist making no coÌ„science to obey his lawes openly and to transgresse Christs thinking belyke Christs kingdome so inward and spirituall as that he requireth no bodily or outward obedience or because yt consisteth of righteousnes and peace and ioye of the holy Ghost that ther may be peace without righteousnes or ioye without peace or inward righteousnes where is such outward disobedience and wilfull transgression But al this is couered and cured at once if so be you couet labour in your calling to haue CHRISTS outward gouernment c. To discusse here how far euerie Christians dutie calling extendeth herein vvere to dismisse all your answers at once and to pluck away the mantle of shame wherwith you couer your nakednes your negligence and all your abhominations In this place therfore we will only ask you these 2 questions First whither anie which haue their calling of Antichrist or be his marked Ministers or waged seruants can truly and vprightly couet labour for the sincere gouernment of CHRIST which is his whipp wherwith he â—kourgeth out all thieues intruders and idle-bellies out of his house The next question is Whither to remaine wittingly and seruilely in the bondage and yoake of Antichrist 29 yeares be to seek labour for the gouernment of Christ faithfully in your callings or to vphold and vndershore the kingdome of Antichrist rather But to transport the name of Christs kingdome which is chiefly spirituall and in the heart vnto that which is but a part c. How diuerslie the kingdome of God is read in the Scriptures we will not contend with you although it were not hard to shew either your ignorance or forgetfulnes herein Only this we say our words can carie no such construction muchlesse such an erronious opinion as you abounding in your owne sense haue not only collect but confuted In the first our words being That we seeke the kingdome of Christ Iesus our Lord cannot be thus restreined to Christs outward orders and gouernment in his Church especially if you had pondered that which followed where in the â— Article after your diuision we haue expressed this point in perticular Neither if we should admit you yâ— interpretation could you collect from thence that the kingdome of God could not be in anie vnlesse they haue this But as we vsually reade in the olde and new Testament Christs kingdome to be taken for his true visible Church here in earth so we acknowledg his vniuersall Church kingdome to extend to all such as by a true faith apprehend confesse Christ howsoeuer they be scattered or whersoeuer dispersed vpon the face of the earth Yet both with this interim without true faith obedience can be no true Church no true Christian. THE 2 Article ought all men that will please God to approue THIS Article you say ought al that wil please God to approue How then seek you to please God vvhich continue in Idolatrie are a Minister therof vvhich prophecie in Baall plead for Baall Or how approue you yt when you condempne vs of schisme and heresie because we forsake your false antichristiaÌ„ worship and seek to worship Christ according to his word THE 3 Article if it be taken in this sense that yee dare set vp a societie seperated from all others vvithin this land vvhich make publique profession then I see not when you haue gon by your selues set vp your Officers how you will cleare your selues from Donatisme If theirs were a damnable fact which God did accurse then take heed to yours for if it can be shewed that their heresies are not holden I will chang my minde THE words of our Article being That we seek the fellowship and communion of Christs faithfull obedient seruants cleare vs of all schisme heresie So that if you would convince vs of these crimes it had bene expedient you had first proued your assemblies as they generally stand by the euidence of Gods word to be true churches of Christ rightly entred keeping couenant with the Lord continuing in the order and obedience of his word c and that we preposterously haue departed from you and vncharitably haue forsaken your fellowship But as soone as you shall shew vs such a church emoÌ„g you by the grace of God we wil shew you how free we are of schisme As likewise when you shall lay open our errors vnto vs how farr we wil be froÌ„ heresie In the meane time we will not cease to pray vnto God for you that he will not lay these sinnes vnto your charge which in your ignorant zeale you commyt but in mercy shew you the feareful estate you staÌ„d in and giue you an heart vnfeinedly to repent speedely to turne vnto him THE 4 Article ought all men to practise so far forth as the limitts of their calling doo extend But let it be shewed that euer priuat men did take vpon them to reforme when things were amisse in the Church or that anie of the Prophetts did wil them to take the matter in hand or shew your warrant that you be not priuat men
continueth in this estate a true established visible church within y e outward Couenāt of God so far as we may ought to iudge by his worde thē doubtlesse for mie part I wil graunt yt a sounde Maior proposition And if he shal bring the church of Rome for instance in the Minor I must then yeild to his argumēt Because y◠church at Rome was sometimes rightly gathered established and within the couenant Yet euen then I suppose yt wil be harde for him to make the like assured proof that euer her daughter of England was rightly established into that christiā order within the couenant But I doubt rather and by her present estate iudge that she was among the childrē of her Mothers fornications and therfore without the Couenant To the second reason it will also hardly followe that because some faithful men haue bene called to some generall knowledge of God and of Christ in this estate and because they in their ignorance cotynued in the same estate that this should therfore iustifie the outward estate of the Church which the worde of God condemneth or prooue yt in this estate the true established Church of Christ when they haue nothing aright according to Christes ordinance as we haue prooued in this treatise whether I refer for a more ful answeare of these reasons hasting to the second poyncte Wherein I before shewed how God commandeth al his faithful seruantes of what estate or degree soeuer to flee out of Babilon the false Church and being escaped not to stand still to remember the Lord a far off to let Ierusalem come into their minde to goe vp to SION to seeke out and to repaire vnto the place where God hath put his name To seek the Church and the kingdome of CHRIST to take his yoke vpon them to assemble together in his name with his promise of direction and protection and with his authoritie to establish his offices and ordinances amongst them giuen by him to the ministrie and gouernmēt of his Church vnto the worldes end there to leade their liues together in all mutuall duties in his holie order faith and feare Now as we shewed all perticular and priuate men whosoeuer to be called out of the false Church from confusion and out of the world from dispersion vnto the true Church vnto order So likewise shewed we that all these faithfull persons whosoeuer were as yet but priuate men at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together none of them being as yet called to anie ecclesiasticall office or function in the Church yt not being as yet established into order Wherevpon we concluded and still of necessitie enforce That seing God calleth all his seruantes out of confusion and will not haue them liue in dissipation or disorder but only in this order which he hath prescribed in his worde And hath giuen his Church aucthoritie and commandement to erect retaine and obserue this order vnto the worldes end And seeing in this estate the Church now consisteth but of priuate men That therfore the faithfull being as yet but priuate men ought by the commandement of God to assemble ioyne themselues together in the name faith of Christ and in all mutual dueties orderly to proceede according to the rules of the worde to a holy choice vse of such offices ordinances as Christ hath ordayned to the seruice gouernment of his Church And sure were not Mr. G. as forgeatful as he is ignorāt of the scriptures he could not but haue seene by the verie phrase the first proposition confirmed by many scriptures The secōd by many prophecies of this general defection and if not verified in these present tymes yet he cannot denie but some former not long sithence Therefore whilest he fighteth with the conclusiō he but spurneth against the prickes bewraieth the folly of his owne heart and no waye auoydeth or defendeth the daunger therebie His best answeare to this reason or rather manie reasons summed vp is as he thinketh to tourne it away by two questions and by manifold contumelies against our poore persons or to say as yt is by inaudible blasphemies against the Church of God likening the assemblie of the faithful gathered in the name and ioyned together in the faith of Christ proceding to th'establishing and exercise of Christes or dinances to the rebellious company of Corath Dathan Abyram to a rowte of mutynous prentices assembled without leaue of their Prince to chuse a Lorde Maior c. His first question is That if all were priuate at the first comming out of the false Church who they were that caled them together Or whether their cōming together doth make them otherwise then priuate We answeare that for anie thing we can see or may iudge by the word they were but priuate men that first caled them out of the false Church and that caused them to assemble together howsoeuer peraduenture indued with more excellent giftes and more rare graces then other Furder that being thus assembled they ceased not to be priuate men vntil they were lawfully caled vnto some true ecclesiastical office in and by the Church Yet al this notwithstanding the Church in this estate nowe consisting onlie of priuate men ought to procede to a right choice of Ministers c according to the commandement of God His next stombling-block or question is VVho should ordaine these Pastors Elders And whether we euer read of any ordained but by Apostles Euangelistes Pastors Teachers and Gouernours And vvhether that power vvas not at the first deriued from th'extraordinarie Ministers to the Ordinarie To this we haue aboue answered where wee entreated of the ordination of the Ministers of England and here againe doe answere That the Church had alwaies the power to chuse and ordaine their owne Ministers wherevnto yt ought to vse the most fit instruments whether these Pastors Teachers Elders if such be to be had or ells where they be not to be had to vse the fittest meanes and instrumentes that God exhibiteth For this power of ordination is not as Mr. G. and the vnruly cleargie of these dayes suppose deriued from the Apostles Euangelistes vnto the permanent ministrie of Pastors and Elders neither belongeth yt by anie peculiar right to their offices and persons segregate from the Church But yt is giuen by Christ and properlie belongeth vnto the Church wherevnto their Ministrie and persons also belonge and are by the Church to be vsed vnto this worck as occasion is administred And thus if a vaile were not laid ouer Mr. G. his heart at the reading of the scriptures he might finde that those cheife builders the Apostles Euāgelistes themselues vsed this power not to take yt from the Church but therein to assist the Church As we reade Act. 13. Where the Church being assembled vnto fasting prayer and other holy exercises yt is there said also that they layde handes vpon the Apostles and sent them
administration gouernment cannot be said the right and true established Churches of Christ. Neither may anie faithfull man ioyne vnto them in this administration gouernment without heynous impietie and denying the faith The more perticular proofe aswell of these Arguments as of these transgressions insue hereafter in this treatise These reasons all men may see proue directly these Parish assemblies not to be the true established Churches of Christ to which anie faithfull christian may ioyne himself in this estate especially when all reformation vnto the rules of Christs Testament is not only denied but resisted blasphemed persecuted How then are M. Giffardes eies bound and couered with the spirit of slumber that still dreameth of a true Church ministrie sacraments worship gouernment in this estate and will not be wakened by these reasons or anie thing that can be said or aledged against their vngodly doings though he can neither approue these his strong coÌ„ceiued imaginations by the rules of Gods word nor disproue these euident charges in the fower principall transgressioÌ„s by vs aledged against their parish assemblies Which yet he indeuoreth to put away shift off by shameles sclanders opeÌ„ vntruthes gyuing out That we condempne a Church for that wicked men come with the godly to the publique exercises of religion For that there are some vngodly men of the church For that there are some wantes in the calling of the Ministers and in the outward discipline As also some imperfections or corruptions in the worship which are not fundamentall The vntruth wherof our verie Propositions though we should no furder answere sheweth to his face Where we charge and the word of God condempneth their assemblies for that they consist of prophane multitudes neuer orderly gathered vnto or walking in the faith There shall whilest the Church consisteth of mortall men alwayes be wicked in the Church But Christ hath his fanne in his hand to make cleane his barne flore And hath gyuen power commandement to his Church to cast out the wicked from amongest them We acknowledge that the Prince ought to compell al her subiects to the hearing Gods word in the publique exercises of the Church yet cannot the Prince compell anie to be a member of the Church or the Church to receiue anie without assurance by the publique profession of their owne faith or to retaine anie longer then they continue walke orderly in the faith Againe we condempne not their assemblies for some faltes in the calling of the ministrie but for hauing reteining a false antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them Such we here proue their whole ministrie to be in Office Entrance Administration In like maner we forsake not their assemblies for some faltes in their gouernment or Discipline but for standing subiect to a popish and antichristian gouernment And such we here proue theirs to be in the officers Courtes proceadings Neither refreigne we their worship for some light imperfections as he saith but because their worship is superstitious deuised by men idolatrous according to that patched popish portesse their seruice booke according vnto which their sacraments and whole administration is performed not by the rules of Christs Testament Such we here proue their booke worship and ministration to be We also before set downe vnto him sondry popish idolatrous blasphemous abuses in their worship ministration As their Idoll Lent Ember Eaue Fastes their Idoll Feastes popish Iewish Easter Pentecost Christmasse their Idoll Ladie dayes Sainctes dayes Innocentes dayes Angells dayes Soule dayes Their false maner of administâ—ing their Sacramentes with such idolatrous Popish ceremonies trinckets the Font signe of the Crosse Gossips c Their midwiues baptisme ConfirmatioÌ„ Their housâ—ing the sick with the other sacrameÌ„t Their Iuish Popish ceremonies vestures c Their PurificatioÌ„ Offertories Crismes c Their marijng burijng limiting or coniuring the fieldes made a parte of the publique worship and of y e Pastors office c. These abhominatioÌ„s M. Giff. will at no haÌ„d haue called popish idolatrous or blasphemous We impudently lye vnsufferably sclander in so faijng He therfore indeuoreth to pourge them of all popish superstitious opinions abuses shewing how cleare the Church of England is of the same Yet will not M. Giff. be thought to plead for or iustifie anie publique abuse of the Church but only to plead against the Brownists that speake worse of these things then they are For these are no fundamental errors such as polute the worship but only light imperfections c. Well we will refer the discussing of the nature of them how heinous they are vnto their due place Only here we would know of M. Giff. what foundation these things themselues haue in the word of God and what warrant he can there shew for them If he can iustifie them by the word of God then verely our offences are no lesse then he hath said that blame them to be idolatrous popish blasphemous But if these trumperies haue no foundation or commandemeÌ„t in Gods word but are the deuises of men then we would know whither God requireth or accepteth such worship at their haÌ„des And whither being made the publique worship of God and administration of their Church they be not idolatrie And then how they may offer or the faithfull be constrayned to such idolatrie to such worship as God neither requireth non accepteth And with what conscience he can or how he dare stand a minister of that Leitourgie and worship which the cannot approue by the word of God and which he would not be thought to allowe of the abuses therof being so manifest odious in his owne eies Especially now with what conscience he can thus blaspheme condempne vs for refreining that worship which he cannot approue and doth not alowe Or how he can so earnesâ—ly inueigh against those most forward and zealous hearers who though they will heare their sermons yet withdraw from the booke seruice for the errors and euills they see therin This M. Giff. in the Epistle to his second booke saith is a more grieuous sinne then they suppose In deed if the poore soules knew what they did or ought to doo in refreining the publique false worship of the Church they would and could haue no spirituall communion with those ministers or people that still exercise and will not be withdrawen from the same false worship which they condempne forsake nor yet would or might they heare their learned sermons that are ioyned conformed to the same idolatries and abuses But to the matter vntill M. Giff. can proue by the word of God this publique worship and administration according to their seruice booke in those poinctes wherin we blame them there is no cause he should exercise it himself allure others thervnto or condempne vs for refreigning the same as we are commanded of God in as manie places as true worship is inioyned and false worship forbidden In all this then
he but bewraieth his owne shame hipocrisie in condempning blaspheming vs for doing the will of God in aluring others to false worship idolatrie and in doing that himself for filthie lucre feare of the world which he for shame of the world dare not alow neither can iustifie Yea whatsoeuer he colourably pretendeth aledgeth in his second Booke to couer excuse the shame infamie of his former yet is he become an earnest pleader for all the corruptions and abuses of his Church not granting vnto vs anie one of the abuses we reproue to be vnlawfull vngodly lest we should thervpon vrge him to haue y e same left refreined though not publiquely put downe reformed as he accuseth by the faithfull and so they should be condempned for the practise and we iustified for the refreining these things Therfore he is driuen to plead for mitigat excuse to tollerate with his vttermost shiftes cauills all these abhominatioÌ„s whatsoeuer Which yet are so heinous and of so high a nature as no pretexts of the Princes or churches power of ceremonies of things indifferent no distinctions of substance forme of fundamental and not fundamental errors corruptions c can hide but the are found heinous transgressions of the law of God detestable abuses of the worship of God And he in practising and pleading for them is found but as the Dogge retoâ—ned to his owne vomit as y e false Prophet that teacheth y e Prince to set a scandall before the people and that seducâ—th the people to eate their Idolothites Yea he is yet furder driuen openly to iustifie the ministrie and regiment of these Arch Lord Bishops and their hierarchie to be of Christ against which he erewhile also amongest the rest of that faction was an earnest â—utor to the ParliameÌ„t to haue them vtterly remoued out of the Church and abolished their Offices Ministrie Courtes Gouernment which could not be done without most heinous impietie open barbaritie violence to the Church and vnto Christ himself if they had bene of Christ as he now pretendeth Againe if they were not of Christ but of Antichrist as they all of that sect then vpon certeine knowledge and assurance affirmed how and with what conscience could the Reformists themselues submit vnto their decrees power gouernment receiue their ministrie of them exercise their ministrie vnder them sweare performe their canonical obedience vnto them Let M. Giff. with all his coÌ„ning reconcile this in truth good conscience howsoeuer he hath reconciled himself to that apostatical throne from which he was reuolted And in testimonie of his vnfeined fidelitie and in hope of some promotion hath written these blasphemous bookes in â—his gracious Lords defence against the Brownists yea and rebuked in the Epistle to his second Booke al such as speake against the Bishopps c. which yet shall neuer be able to hide or excuse his open coÌ„trarietie perfidie apostasie yea that which yet is more fearefull his open restreint blasphemie and despight of that truth which he sometimes gladly acknowledged professed Vnto all which he is driuen by opposing himself against these Browâ—ists in the defence of their worship Leitourgie ministrie which al should fal to be the ground with their Lords the Bishops throne For if they fall out to be antichristian no true ministers according to the rules of Christs Testament theÌ„ must that ministrie which is made by them standeth subiect vnto them c needâ— be antichristiaÌ„ also Then haue they their ministrie not to intermedle with the gouernment administratioÌ„ of Christs church much lesse to make them lawes a Leitourgie worship Neither staieth M. Giff. himself here in the defence of this present worship Leitourgie Hierarchie Courtes their procedings ministrie and their administration but yet is dryuen for the defence of all these to iustifie the Church of Rome euen in their greatest deepest apostaâ—ie to be the true visible established Church of Christ to haue the true seale of the Couenant c. And in deed this it standeth him vpon to proue seing their whole ministrie were immediatly deriued receiued from their mother of Rome as also their whole gouernment Courtes c and no smal parte of their worship ministration togither with the whole people Parishes Synagogs as they now stand He wanteth not learned proues to bring this abought As that the Apostasie should arise and Antichrist sit in the Church of God Yea he proueth both the Church of Rome of England at once by the schisme of Israell the apostasie of Iuda c which yet in those estates were pronounced Churches by the Prophetts He proueth them within the Couenant by the second Commandement where the promise is made to the thousand generation As also by the greatest corruptions and faltes that he can anie where reade of the primatiue Churches These miserable reasons examples are the maine pillers ground-worckes of al their buildings and his writings which being pulled downe their whole frame falleth to the ground at once and is irreparable For this I refer the Reader to their due place in the second Transgression where they are largely refuted answered An other pitifull reason he bringeâ—h in his Proeme to the Reader of an humane bodie coÌ„sisting of maimed or deformed members Which yet so long as life remaineth in it is said an humane bodie So the Church though it coÌ„sist of mained deformed members yet whilest it hath the life viz. true faith in CHRIST in it yt is to be held a true Church I will not here stand to shew how vntowardly he hath draweÌ„ this comparison beyond the Apostles scope proportion Rom. 12. Nor yet how manie errors inconveniences would insue of such racking of Allegories Only to his reason we answere that if in his first Proposition he meane by deformed members such as haue not their right true shape y t God hath appoincted to humane members but a strange diuerse forme as the feet of a Beare the mouth teeth of a Lion though it haue the face of a man the haire oâ— a woman c then hold we it not a naturall but a monstrous bodie So we say that to the heauenly body of Christ may no monstrous deformed strange members be ioyned but only such members vnto the publique ministrie as are described Rom. 12. Neither may that heauenly edifice be built of any other the lyuing holy precious stones 1 Pet. 2. or be built in anie other forme then that Christ hath prescribed and the maister builders left vnto vs in his Testament 1 Cor. 3. They that misbuild the Temple of God destroy yt And they that destroy the Temple of God them shall God destroy Now then to his inference of instance We denie this body of their Church to consist of these true members spoken of Rom. 12. Neither of those liuing precious stones
1 Peter 2. Neither to be built according to the true Apostolike patterne 1 Cor. 3. But to consist of those monstrous members Reuel 9. Reuel 13. and of those prophane multitudes Reuel 17. 18. Remayning in confusion disorder Reuel 18. 2. And therfore not to be held the heauenly body of Christ but that monstrous body of that Beast Not that holy Spouse of Christ but that adulterous harlot Not that compact Citie that heauenly Ierusalem but that confuse BabiloÌ„ Furder to that faith life of the Church he speaketh of we confesse indeed to the stopping of his sclanderous mouth that so vntruly chargeth vs that no sinne or sinnes in anie Church or Christian can disanull the Couenant where this true faith is found But this we say that true faith may not be sâ—uered from true repentance euen of all things â—hey see to be contrary to Gods word True faith may neuer be seuered from true obedience of whatsoeuer is shewed to be the will of God in his word Faith without workes is dead Now then to the faith of the Church of England we finde yt without workes we find yt without repentance In their worckes as the Apostle saith they denye God howsoeuer in words they confesse him in their deeds they are abhominable vnperswaded to euerie good worke howsoeuer they make a shew of godlynes they denye the power therof Yea so far are they from suffring their workes to burne being shewed and reproued vnto them by the word of God as they smite persecute and blaspheme with all hostilitie and reproch those that but shew and reproue their sinnes How then should they be thought to haue this true faith this true life in them But the faith of their Church remaineth to be furder examined discussed in this Booke whither I refer for furder triall And now if this verbal faith confession of iustification by CHRIST only make a Church a Christian though they erre transgresse in manie yea in anie other thing as the life doth make a man c how may we that professe this faith make this confession be by M. Giffard accused pronounced coÌ„demned divulged as damnable Heretikes Brownists Seâ—ismaticks c Shall this faith giue life vnto them and not vnto vs Or will he slay them that Christ gyueth life vnto And that before anie due conviction of anie one error or transgression deseruing these hard censures sentences May he not euill accuse vs of rash furious disorderly dealing that thus vncharitably accuseth condempneth smiteth before anie triall Yea that thus presumptuously runneth before and forestalleth the iudgment of their owne Church pronouncing divulging vs damnable heretikes schismatickes before their Church had detected convinced reiected vs for anie one errot As to the heresies he accuseth vs of Namely to hould an 〈◊〉 perfectioÌ„ in this life immunitie froÌ„ sinne from the superior powers y t God hath set ouer vs. When he shall be able to shew by anie one sentence in our writings or but necessarily to infer from the same that we hould these heresies Let vs then be held such and M. Giâ—â—ard no accuser and sclanderer But if the contrarie appeare in all our writings and doings then is it euident that he hath most maliciouslie sclandered vs to bring vs in hatred with our souereigne Queene the whole Land We may euill be accused to hould the error of perfectioÌ„ for blaming their Church for such heynous transgressions Or of Anabaptisticall freedoÌ„ for not being subiect to their antichristian yoake Or for vsing the 4 5 Chap. of the Epistle to the Gaâ—â—at against their burdenous and vngodly traditions These causes scriptures wil not beare vp M. G. his malicious suspicions chardges Neither if we held these detestable heresies could our sinns or errors either excuse or lessen these traÌ„sgressions of theirs It is a bad foundation to build his credit vpon the ruines of other mens especially by such detraction sclander The Schisme he chargeth vs with hath as litle ground or colour of truth We willed him long since to proue these Parish Assemblies in this estate true established Churches and then we would shew him how free we are of schisme We depart not from anie part of the truth or from anie that will walke holily orderly in the same The causeâ— of our seperation from these Parish assemblies we haue shewed to be such as proue them no true established Churches of Christ or such where the faithfull may abide with anie promise or comfort In seperating from them then we haue not rent our selues from the Church or body of Christ but rather seperated the Church from them and obeyed the commandement of God that calleth vs out from emongst them Againe whilest M. GIFF. standeth so much vpon the name of a Church and giueth the same to the Romish Syâ—â—gog in their deepest apostasie how will he escape himselfe or cleare the Church of England from the blot of Schisme for seperating and withdrawing from the Church of Rome Anie excuse that he can make or deuise wil cleare vs as wel as theselues Let him looke therfore to y e measure he meateth lest it be measured vnto him againe with the same not oÌ„ly in this matter of Schisine but euen in that especial poinct of Donatisâ—rie which he of a singular iudgment aboue all others of this time hath espied out and taken no small paines to compare and liken vs vnto them from poinct to poinct Forgetting in this heate of zeale and acuâ—â—inat pregnacie of his how the Papistes haue coÌ„tinually battred them with the â—ame ordinance with much greater aduantage then he hath vs In asmuch as he confesseth the Church of Rome the true established Church of Christ with the true ministri and true seale of the Couenant c And in that they still reteine the same ministrie Gouernment Courtes Officers Canons Orders Parishes People Synagogs c that the Papiâ—tes vsed left in this Land as the Douatists did Wheras we on the contrarie do not seperate for the same causes neither doo iustifie or reteine the same ministrie worship Leitourgie Officers Ordinances Gouernment Parishes Synagogs that they vse c as the Donatists did Neither do we hold such errors concerning the Magistrates or ministrie c as the Donatists did as is here more perticularly shewed in a peculiar treatise whither I refer Only here obseruing how the malicious man still by the iust iudgment of God falleth into the same pitte which he digged for the innocent For whilest he would accuse vs to derogate from the Princes authoritie in not allowing her to make lawes for the Church And greatly to blemish her â—ame diminish her loue emongest her subiects whilest we denie these Parishes to be true established Churches of Christ He himself layeth vpoÌ„ her al these popish trumperies idolatrous reliques antichristian enormities abuses of their church and distaineth her
whither the Fig-tree put forth and the Vine florish bud her small grapes Then will he prepare and make al things in a readines for that great solemne day of the consummation of his mariage The Lord grant we may likwise prepare be in redines trimmed prepared that we may meete him with ioye to our euerlasting comfort Amen And the Lord shorten that day and hasten his comming Amen Euen so come Lord IESVS come quicklie Amen So be it A PLAINE REFVTATION OF Mr. Giffard his reprochful Booke intituled a short treatise against the Donatistes of Englande c. YOV were before shewed that we iudged none otherwise no furder theÌ„ th' expresse worde of God teacheth vs to iudge of you That is to knowe the tree by the fruicte and the fruicte by Gods worde You were there shewed That we iudged not of Gods secret election which he hath in al places amongst all sortes of men but of the apparant odious sinnes of your Congregations from which whilest you wil not be purged we may haue no spiritual fellowship or communion with you in this estate We shewed you that notwithstanding all your wickedâ—es we neuer doubted but the foundatioÌ„ of God stood firme the Lord hauing manie thowsandes of his elect amongst you knowen to himself though not apparant to to our eies whom he in his good time will call more neare vnto him And therfore we with extreame longing loue towardes you sought desired your conuertion that we might see that seale of Gods grace vpon your foreheades wherwith all that name the name of Christ are sealed vzt To depart from iniquitie To this end we did and stil doe reproue in the name of our Lord IESVS CHRIST these heinous transgressions in your publique assemblies lying in your miserable Prisons the Lordes witnesses against the same To this end we exhort al meÌ„ by al meanes and admonished you of your present euil estate as also blamed you for your former vngodlie false â—urmises collectioÌ„s chardges wresting deprauing our wordes contrarie to al sense equitie and conscience We hoped that this thus far forth had sufficed especiallie seing you rested in silence more then two yeares without anie replie or contradiction Vntil now at length vpoÌ„ your submissioÌ„ made and consultatioÌ„ had with your Ordinarie you disclosed this Cocaâ—rice egge which you had so long sit vpon and all to sprinckled vs with the viperous poyson therof Terming vs at the first dash Donatists Brownists Anabastites Hereticks Schismaticks with infinit reprochfull horrible adiectiues ioyned to the same which you haue aboundantly drawen out of the euil treasurie of your owne wicked heart without cause giuen by vs or shewed by you Continuing stil and more more abounding in the gall of bitternes still chardging vs with intollerable pride presumption intrusion into Gods iudgement feate in falselie chardging accusing condemning your Christian assemblies that professe the Gospel c notwitstanding al we haue said to cleare our selues of those crimes and to proue in perticular the thinges we chardged you with the truth wherof remaineth now to be skanned In which blasphemous vayne of wryting you but fulfil the measure of your sinne and those prophecies you were foretold of They shall drincke be moued be madd c. They shal gnawe their tongues for grief and blaspheme the God of Heauen for their paines for their soares and not repent of their worckes FIRST then to this worde Principal wherat you so stomble and from which you draw such heretical conclusions We giue you to vnderstand that we vsed yt onely to signifie and expresse vnto you the fowre cheif heades froÌ„ whence flowe and whether may be reduced all these seueral infinite enormities abuses which abouÌ„de in your church As to the nature qualitie of these 4. how far they extend let the word of God iudge Yea let anie by the same worde iudge 1. Whether such assemblies as were neuer dulie gathâ—red vnto CHRIST but all the prophane and open wicked of the land receaued by constrainte into the bodie of your Church as members of the same immediatlie from opeÌ„ idolatrie and apostasie without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them to the faith or anie voluntarie profession made by themselues in perticular of their owne faith whether such Congregations as these may in this confusion be held esteamed the true rightly planted Churches of CHRIST 2. Also let anie by the worde of God iudge whether those Congregations which haue not that ministerie of the Gospel that CHRIST hath in his Testament instituted to his Church but haue retaine an other strange and Antichristian ministerie euen that the Pope vsed left in the Land may be held the true and rightly planted Churches of CHRIST 3. Moreouer let anie iudge whether those Congregations which haue not those orders and gouernement which our Sauiour CHRIST hath ordained and commaunded vnto his Church vnto the worldes end but reiecting that haue retaine an other strange Antichristian gouernment euen that Antichristian Hierarchie the Pope vsed and left in the Land may be held the true rightly established Churches of Christ. 4. Finallie let anie in whom is anie sparke of light iudge Whether those Congregations that retaine vse an other Leitourgie that is an other forme of publique administration and worship then Christs Testament especiallie such a patched erroneous idolatrouse blasphemouse thing as theirs is and will not be reformed or withdrawen from the same may be esteamed the true and rightly established Churches of Christ such as Christes faithful seruantes may haue communion fellowship with in their administration of prayers and Sacramenâ—s But now where all these faultes concur and haue not onelie obstinacie but tyrannie and persecution ioyned to the same who can doubt of the matter Whether also your Churches can remaine in these transgressions or you maintaine the same and not depart from the groundes and principles of Christian religion and faith which you boast to keepe let anie which is anie thinge exercised in the worde of God iudge And thus by these few wordes are not onelie your 3. ineuitable dangers into one of which you would needes shoue vs but eueÌ„ your whole blasphemous Booke auoyded at once For whie should we now ether maintaine this heresie 1. That where the true faith is ther can breake forth no great faultes errors and abuses Or this absurde maner of speache 2. That all errors deformities in Religion be heresies blasphemies and abhominations Or ells confesse 3. That with intollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgment seate we haue taken vpon vs to iudge and condemne whole assemblies which professe the faith of CHRIST sincearelie in all fundamentall poinctes For holding that yt caÌ„not be held the true church of CHRIST rightlie planted and established where the people were receaued into the bodie of the Church before they were dulie caled vnto the faith or
of the Sacraments was perfect and fullie sufficient Yf they so thincke of yt Whether they iudge it lawful for anie mortal men or the whole Church willingly wittingly to alter or add anie thing to or plucke anie thing from the said institution of our Sauiour in the Sacraments Or if they so add Whether our Sauiour doth accept and blesse yt as his owne institution And if God doe not accept or blesse such Sacraments where his institution is thus wilfullie violated and changed Howe such â—dulterate Sacraments may be said the true seales of Gods Couenant especiallie where such a blasphemous horrible popish idolatrous ceremonie is vsed as Mr. Giffard coÌ„fesseth this signe of the crosse to be except yt be better with them then it was with the Papistes Or howe may the faithful in this estate ioyne vnto them And nowe yt would be knowen of Mr. Giffard seing he in his owne iudgment condeÌ„neth these Symbolical Seremonies howe he dare thus presumtuously breake CHRISTES institution in deliuering them after the maner prescribed and ioyne vnto those men that enioyne those ceremonies against such of CHRISTES faithful seruants as reproue them stand and suffer againgst them Is not this most fearefully and presumptuously to tempt God to sinne against his owne coÌ„science It is no excuse vnto him to saye the best reformed Churches doe vse witnesses he meaneth God-fathers and God-mothers in baptisme For his owne conscience knoweth and iudgeth that the best Churches doe erre in so doing Furder Baptisme being publique to be deliuered openlie in th'assemblie when the whole Churche is mett together what neede more witnesses of the matter then the whole Congregation But howe wicked and impious is that lawe of their Church which forbiddeth the Parents to answere and vndertake for the bringing vp their owne children in the true faith and feare of God and driueth them to bring Popish Gossips or sureties who must both vndertake vowe and answere for their childe That he doth forsake the Deuil his workes c. What can be more vaine folish and ridiculous TO the Baptisme by weomen you answeare That it is both coÌ„demned by the cheif Gouernours of your Church and is not practized except it be among the popish superstitious ignoraÌ„t sort First we must oppose the publique lawe of your Church against those your gouernours who we suppose as confidentlie as you speake wil not proue in the plural nomber when the pointe coÌ„meth to scanning Your lawe in 3. places of your Portesse doth not onlie allowe the baptisme by weomeÌ„ but publiquelie iustifie it and maketh a kinde of necessitie of such priuat baptisme Saijng that if the child be in danger they may baptise yt at home without a Minister and that in this case they haue donne wel according to due order concerning the baptisinge of this childe which being borne in original sinne in the wrath of God is nowe by the lauer of regeneration in baptisme receyued into the nomber of the children of God and heires of life euerlasting Wherin besides that they most highlie breake prophane th'institutioÌ„ and ordinances of Christ coÌ„cerning the publique seale of this holie CouenaÌ„t in deliuering yt without a lawful Minister priuatelie in a house rashlie and vnreuerently without due order c they also consequeÌ„tly maintaine teach these popish blasphemous errors therbye That if the childe had dyed vnbaptized yt had bene damned And that baptisme is of necessitie to saluation For ells what needed so great feare haste that they would not staye to bring the childe to the publique Congregation no noâ— so much as for the Minister to baptise yt Or how could there he so great cause and so greate necessitie in the matter as their booke mentioneth if they thought that the saluation of the childe honge not vpon the Baptisme Wherbie is manifestly coÌ„uinced as also by their wordes not secretlie implyed That they hold Baptisme the cause and not the seale of saluation For ells to the infant nowe dying what good could baptisme doe Or which waye could yt be a Laver of regeneration vnto yt or receiue yt into the nomber of Gods children We had thought that the saluation of the childe had onlie honge vpon th'eternal election and predestination of God And that the seale of the Couenant had belonged ynto yt by reason of the Parents faith and is administred not as anie helpe or present benefite to the newe borne infant so much as when yt commeth to ryper age to be a contynual comfort help vnto yt BIsshopping Mr. Giffard saith is litle vsed or vrged in the Church of EnglaÌ„d being loath belike to make anie defence therof Yet it is certaine that the Priest is in his Portesse enioyned to commaund That the children be brought to the Bisshop to be confirmed so soone as they can saye in the vulgare tongue the articles of their faith c. Also in an other place of their said seruice-booke there is an expresse lawe That none shalbe admitted to the holye Communion vntil such time as he can say the Catechisme and be confirmed Howe accorde these lawes to Mr. Giffards saying that yt is litle vsed But what a monstrous matter is this confirmation of their Church where the Baptisme of CHRIST is to be confirmed of a wretched man if he were as he is nothing lesse a seruant of CHRISTE Yea that Christes faithful seruaÌ„ts whom CHRIST hath alredie publiquely baptised receyued and engrafted vnto himselfe should be kept from the comfortable table of the Lorde vntil they haue a popish Bisshop his confirmation Not here to mention the binding of the faith of the whole Church to an Apocrypha Catechisme Yet to make this their confirmation either of greater estimation or more execrable with all men they add in the second cause manie speciall vertues therof Namely that by their imposition of handes and praier such as are so confirmed by them maye receaue strength and defence against all temptations to sinne and the assaultes of the VVorlde and the Deuil Surely if this be true great is the Bisshops faulte to neglect the practise theâ—of but howe great then our sinne to blame and condemne such a wonderfull excellent ordinance But doubtles this is either too good or too bad to be true If al they vpon whom these Bisshops shall laye their haÌ„des praye ouer shal receaue strength and defence against al temptations to sinne and the assaults of the worlde and the deuil then shal al they that receaue this Confirmation be vndoubtedlie saued Yea if anie of them whome the Bisshop shal thus confirme shal receiue this strength and defence c then haue the Bisshops greater power and their prayers more vertue then eueâ— God gâ—ue to anie mortal man yea then euer he gaue to our Sauiour CHRIST himself with whom though Iudas were contynuallie conuersant his most Heauenly doctrines and holie prayers yet the Deuil entred into him and preuayled against him Though Peter were a
be fayne to returne back againe into his owne heart where they were forged and whence they proceded Our former Argument being reduced into forme was to this effect Into what Congregations all are receiued as members and the said Congregations haue not the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to caste out anie by excommunication there al the prophane multitudes without th'exceptioÌ„ of any one person are receiued into retayned in the bozome and bodie of that Church or of those Churches But in those special Congregations he spake of where the Pastor doth repell from the Sacrament al are receiued as members and the Parson whole parish Or all those Pastors and their flockâ—s haue not the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to cast forth anie by excommunication Therfore euen in those speciall parishes where the Priest by their seruice-booke repelleth from their Sacrament are all the prophane multitudes without th'exceptioÌ„ of any one person receiued into reteined in the bozome bodie c. Here Mr. GIFFARD finding the Maior or first Proposition irrefragable The Minor thus proued vnto him because al in these parishes are baptized and the Parsons suspention is not CHRISTS excommunication hath sought to escape by changing falsifijng our reason which otherwise he was neuer able to answeare He hath quite chaunged yt by putting in a newe Minor Proposition Namely for these peculiar CongregatioÌ„s wherof he made instance he hath put the whole Church of England as they staÌ„d one bodie altogether And is now driueÌ„ to mingle these his select CoÌ„gregations with the other Most parte of Churches Ministers whom erewhile he condemned graunted guiltie of this transgression and also to praye in ayde appeale vnto the popish excommunication of that antichristian Hierarchie of their Church Gouernours And this by furder falsifijng our wordes in both his propositions vizt Where we said haue not CHRISTES power to cast forth anie by excommunication he saith haue no power to cast forth anie by excommunication We neuer doubted but the Church of England as also her mother of ROME hath a false kinde of excommunication exercised in the power of the Dragon of the Beaste but we stil denie that they haue that true ExcoÌ„munication which is exercised in the name power of CHRIST which only belongeth to the Church of CHRIST Thus if the man had takeÌ„ his worcke before him and proued as he had gonne happely his triumphant conclusions would not so sast haue followed Then should he haue had lesse to feare and more to reioyce of his doings wheras now his reckonyng iudgment are yet behinde But if Mr. GIFFARD would vouchsalf to take his aduersaries into the field with him before the fight and giue them leaue to bring and vse their owne vveapons then seing he vvill needes haue the question now generall of the whole Church of England and our argument after a scholastical maner let yt be thus touching this Second Transgression Where all the prophane and vngodly are receiued into and reteined in the Church as members therof there cannot be said the true established Church of CHRIST But in the Church of ENGLAND all the prophane multitudes vngodly of the land were receiued into are reteined in their Church as members therof Therfore the Church of ENGLAND in this estate cannot be saide the true established Church of CHRIST THe first Proposition is coÌ„firmed through the whole Bible from the beginning to the end The Church of God hauing alwaies consisted of a select peculiar people caled separated from the prophane of the worlde None entring into CHRISTS Church but by a voluntarie profession of their true faith and obedience Or standing longer there then they keepe the same faith obedience The second Proposition may be proued by way of argument thus Where all were receyued into the Church without any separation at the first gathering therof and they haue not the power of CHRIST to caste forth any by orderly excoÌ„munication there all the prophane multitudes may iustly be said to be receiued into and reteined in the bozome and bodie of the Church But in the Church of England al the prophane multitudes of the land were together without difference or separation receiued into the Church neither haue they the power of CHRIST orderly to cast forth any by true excommunication Therfore al the prophane multitudes are truly said to be receiued into and to be reteined in the bozome and bodie of their Church This aucthor his two exceptions to the first Proposition of the repelled from the Sacraments and such is depart of them-selues no waye diminish the truth or hynder the course therof For the suspended they still remaine members of their Church For such Papists Hereticks Schismaticks as depart of themselues though they ought also to be cast out by orderly Excommunication yet are they not nor can be in this their Church so cast out howe infectious and wicked soeuer they be because they haue not the power and excommunication of CHRIST amongst them So that nowe all the controuersie wil be about the second Proposition whether the Church of England haue receaued in al the prophane whether yt haue the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to cast forth any by true excommunication Thus far forth it is manifest cannot be denyed That the whole land eueÌ„ al the Queenes subiects at the beginning of ouer Queene ELISABETHES reigne were all at one instant receyued as members into this Church this Ministrie Worship Sacraments Ordinance c set ouer them indifferently Since al their seede without exception of any whether Papiste Heretick Atheist Witch Coniurer c are baptized in this their Church What then should let vs to affirme and conclude That all the prophane of the lande are receyued into the bodie of bozome of this Church if so be that there then were at the beginning of her Maiesties reigne or now are anie prophane in the land Wherfore he must either mainetayne that there haue not beene since this our Queenes reigne and now presently are not any prophane open vngodly in the land Or ells coÌ„fesse his Church guiltie of this Transgression for receyuing in al the wicked prophaâ—e into their Church Neither wil all the Deuils sophistrie his raâ—ling accusing blaspheming of Christs faithful seruantes witnesses of heresie intrusion into Gods iudgmeÌ„t seate sauadge and desperate rending vp the Lordes tender plantes yea of whole christian assemblies help the matter excuse him or chardge vs. We hold al such prophane as either are not yet come to the true faith obedience of Christ by outward profession or are departed from the true faith and obedience of CHRIST remayning obstinate and hardned in transgression or error And this second sort although the Church should neglect or refuse to cast them out by excommunication We hold that only such as voluntarily make a true profession of faith and vowe of their obedience and
impenitent offendors may be reteyned in the Church as members This he must proue or ells all that he saith is nothing to the purpose seing we chardge their Church as heynously guilty of and wilfully obstinate in these transgressions But insteade of prouing he slilie seeketh to chaÌ„ge the question by turning yt from these open prophane and wicked to Hypocrites wicked persons which remaine in the Church whose children he saith ought to be baptized Wherin besides â—hat he beggeth the question assuming in a stronge imagination that which he shal neuer be able to proue That these parish assemblies are the true plaÌ„ted and established Churches of CHRIST and these vngodly multitudes true members therof he furder so doubleth and windeth betwixt these two starting holes the hypocrites and the prophane as one cannot knowe whereto find him or wherof he affirmeth It being graunted that the children of hypocrites ought to be baptized he wil â—hervpon conclude that the childreÌ„ of the prophane also Which if yt be denied then he wil make no conscience to giue out that we denie baptisme to the seede of Hypocrites in the Church Thus standing vpon no grownde he flitcheth fleeteth vp and downe seeking in an euil conscieÌ„ce to shifte off the truth wherwith he is pressed First presupposing that al these multitudes of prophane wicked are within the Church Then endevouring to proue that al the children of such prophane and wicked as he termeth within the Church and to professe Christ ought to be baptized Wherin before we come to the consideration of his reasons we must note vnto the reader in his Proposition expresse contrarietie error and sacriledge Contrariety in that he with the same mouth in the same senteÌ„ce pronounceth them as prophane wicked and also as faithful and members of the Churh such to whom the Covenante and the seales therof belonge Error in that he thus iudgeth and blasphemeth them if they be faithful members of the Church As on the contrarie if they be prophane wicked to iustifie their profession whilest they are obstinate in such sinnes Yea furder to harden them therin to giue the seale of the Couenante vnto their children in respect of their profession which caÌ„not be donne without open wilful sacriledge for if they be to be iudged prophane wicked then are their children also vntil they make profession of their owne faith to be held of vs as prophane the deuised writteÌ„ professioÌ„ of their Church cannot sanctifie or iustifie either the one or the other vnto vs. Moreouer the Church cannot denie to receaue those Parents or that Parent vnto the communion of the Supper whose infantes they baptize in that estate And thus by Mr. Giffards diuinitie may the bodie and bloude of Christ be prostitute to the open prophane and wicked whom he thus proueth within the Couenant THe interest of Gods Couenant saith he doth not depend vpoÌ„ their next Parents but vpon the antient christiaÌ„s their fore-Fathers For when God saith I wilbe thie God and the God of thie seede the promise is made to a thousand generations Exod. 20 So Leui paied tithes vnto Melchi-sedec because he was the loynes of Abraham Yea al the whole nation of the Iewes were in the loynes of Abraham and therfore holie within the Couenant For if the first fruictes be holy so is the lumpe if the roote be holy so are the boughes Rom. 11. Yea though manie of them were wicked idolatros reprobates yet euen in the worst tymes were they Circumcised and yt was not disalowed But the Lorde caleth the children of those wicked idolators his children Thou hast taken thie Sonnes thie Daughters which thou broughtest fourth vnto me and sacrificed vnto them to be consumed thou hast slaine my Sonnes and giuen them by causing them to passe through vnto them Ezech. 16. 21. BEhold into how manie errors mischieues and blasphemies they fal which in this maner spurne striue against the truth euerie worde becomming a snare vnto them to hold drawe them vnto their greater iudgments If th'interest in Gods Couenant as being the seed of the faithful vnto the sight of the Church depend not vpon the faith of the next parents but vpon the antient christians their fore-Fathers within a thowâ—and generations c Then ought al to be receaued and none to be kept or caste out of the Church Then is the whole world within the Couenant of the Church holie al being â—pronge within far lesse then a thowsand generations of manie faithful and lineallie come from the Patriarck Noah Then ought by this rule the Israelites vnder the lawe to haue circumcised all their captiue Canâ—â—nites and heathen that came into their power Then ought the Church nowe also to baptize all the seede euen of the most wicked and vngodlie whether Turcks Papists Idolators c because they are all â—pronge of faithful Parents within lesse then a thousand generations But because we reade in the Scriptures that Gods Couenant only belongeth vnto the faithful and the seales of his couenant are nowe only committed to his true established Church Seinglawes rules are giueÌ„ by God vnto the Church to whom and how to administer the faid seales Seing none can enter into this Church but by this true outward profession of faith obedience neither anie remaine loÌ„ger there theÌ„ they keepe the said faith and obedience outwardly Seing baptisme only belongeth and is giuen to the members of this Church and vnto their â—eede and can to none other be giueÌ„ without heynouse sinne and sacriledge We doubt not to pronownce and reiect these doctrines of this false Prophet as most blasphemous and diuelish As â—ending to the open breach of al Gods lawes and ordinances to th'vtter abolishing of the truth and feare of Gods iudgments to the taking away of al faith and godlines out of the earth to the bringing in of al Atheisme confusion to the prostituting and prophaning of the holie things of God And therfore al true Christians by the commandment of God are to auoide and hold accursed the aucthor and bringer of such doctrines and so much the rather in that he so wretchedly and bouldly falsifieth dismembreth peruerteth and abuseth the holie Scriptures thervnto AS to proue that the Couenant dependeth not vpon the outward faith of the parents but vpon the faith of their godlie ancestors he voucheth Exod. 20. I wil be thy God and the God of thy Seede the promise is made saith he to a thousand generations But he wittingly suppresseth the next wordes of the sentence of them that loâ—e me and Keepe mie Commandements which shewe to whom this Couenant is made and belongeth and the conditioÌ„ on our part As the former part of this senteÌ„ce verse 5. sheweth howe we may forfeite this Couenant Namelie by breaking and coÌ„temning the lawe of God in whose loue we cannot remaine except we remaine in his obedience Iohn 14. 21. 15. 10. So that the Lorde
Idols be placed together If they that worship the Beast his Image may be said to be in the Church of God and their seede outwardly within the couenant TheÌ„ the most abhominable and execrable may be said in this estate members of Christ washed purged with Christ his bloude sanctified and led by his Sprit in assurance of saluation For none can be said to be within the Church but the members of the Church And whomsoeuer we may affirme to be within the Church those so longe as they contynue in that estate we are also to iudge assuredly saued for anie thing to vs reuealed or knowen to the contrarie But if al these be most diuelish heresies directly contrarie to the whole truth of God if they be most execrable blasphemies such as christians abhor but to heare TheÌ„ let the aucthors and spreaders of these doctrines tremble for feareful iudgments remayne them HIs slie distinctioÌ„ or euasion rather wherby he diuideth the Church of Rome into two parts the Pope and his adherents And the nations vnder the tyrannie of the Pope doth rather bewray the thick darcknes of his heart wherin he is held with chaynes vnto iudgment and his giddye amazednes then anie way cleaâ—e him of these heresies and blasphemies aforesaid His first vnderstaÌ„ding of the Church of Rome is the Pope his lawes his worship which hath bene deuised by himself his adherents and al that worship him or receiue his marcke These he saith are the Apostasie seduced to damnation and not the Church of CHRIST otherwise then thus that the Pope the Cardinals and al that worship the Beaâ—t be false christiaÌ„s by profession bredd in the Church and contynuing in yt their seede not excluded from the Couenant What a delphick Orakle is this What strange repugnancie contradiction is here betwixt euerie worde of this his cleare Proposition How can the Pope and his adhereÌ„ts be said to be that Apostasy seduced to damnation not the Church of CHRIST and yet by the same mouth in the same sentence at one and the same instant be pronownced to contynue in the Church and their seede not be excluded from the outward couenant Can they be said to be vtterly departed from the faith from Christ from his Church which is meant by this word Apostasy and yet to remaine in the Church How hangs this together May they be pronounced seduced to damnation and not the Church of Christ and yet both they remayne in the Church and their seede not to be excluded from the seale of the couenant There ought none to remayne in the Church but such as are by outward profession and obedieÌ„ce members of the Church Neither ought the childreÌ„ of anie be baptized in their infancie except one of their Parents be a member of the Church The Pope then his Cardinals and adherents remayning in the Church their seede thus baptized as members seing none ells may either remayne in the Church or be baptized How may they thus be pronounced seduced to damnation and not to be the Church seing they are confessed to be outward members of the Church THe second vnderstanding of the Church of Rome is of al those compaines of people ouer whom the tyraÌ„nie of the Pope hath hertofore extended and doth at this daye Or those things which were giuen by CHRIST which remaine in the same this he saith is not the Church of Rome but the Church of God If by the people and tyrannie he here meane such persons as though their bodies were vnder the cruel haÌ„des of the Pope his Bishops or Prelates yet they kept their bodies soules vndefiled with their idolatries and abhominations and free from their antichristian yoke counterfeite Ministrie and ministration and haue on the other side faithfully kept practized the things which are giueÌ„ by our Sauiour CHRIST in his Testament these people indeed can at no hand be said the Church of Rome these are the true Church and seruants of Christ witnessing fighting through the faith of the Gospel against the Pope the Church of Rome and al their antichristian cleargie and religion But what is this to proue the kingedome of ENGLAND or other nations which haue beene and are defiled with the idolatries and abhominations of the Church of Rome in that estate to be the true Church of God but rather the quite coâ—trarie seing these faithful witnesse against them and haue no fellowship or communion with them The Church of Rome we reade Reuel 17. to be caled that great whore that sitteth vpon manie waters That great Babylon the mother of whoredomes abhominations of the earth with whom the Kings of the earth haue committed fornication and th'inhabitants of the earth haue bene droncke with the wyne of her fornications mingled vnto them in her golden cup. We reade there verse 15. that the waters where the whore sitteth are people multitudes natioÌ„s tongues We reade also that the Beast the false Prophet shal deceaue y e people of the earth and cause theÌ„ to set vp worship the image of the Beast and to slaye al that wil not so doe And cause al both smale and great riche poore free bonde to receaue a marcke in their right haÌ„des or in their fore-heades And that no maÌ„ might buy or sel saue he that had the marcke of the Beast Wee reade furder more That all that receaue the Beastes marcke that worship him or his image shal drincke of the wyne of the wrath of God With what shame then caÌ„ this marcked Priest goe about to proue the Church of Rome to be y â— true Church of God Or those nations which haue coÌ„mitted fornication with her receaued her Ministrie wares abhominations that haue receaued the marcke and erected the image of the Beast and worshipped the Beast and his image in this time of their poperiâ— to be esteemed the true Church of CHRIST His 3 stowte reasons wil not al proue this poynte Though they held many poyntes of true and sounde doctrine yet the many heresies they held those as this man himself in an other place of his booke confesseth Fundamental doe poyson and leauen the whole lumpe There is no heretick that holdeth not some truth As to their holy Sacrament of Baptisme yt being deliuered by a false ministrie after a false maner with new adulterate elements of salt oyle chreame c with their magical incantations signes c and that to opeÌ„ idolators can no waye giue them christendome as this Popish Priest supposeth Or if this Baptisme in the Popish Church be an holy Sacrament true seale of the couenant then would we knowe of Mr. GIFFARD or his learned abettors whie their other Sacrament of the Supper or Altare should not also be held in the same accompt Or how the Church may be said to haue one true holy and auaileable Sacrament to be receaued an other so blasphemous and execrable as is
to be abhorred at the same instant Or what kinde of Couenant this is that hath one true authenticke seale an other forged and adulterate annexed vnto yt Furder also we would knowe if the baptisme of the Church of ROME be a true and holy Sacrament whie they should inhibit any from fetching the same there and how they dare schisme from that Church that hath the Couenant sealed and confirmed vnto them His second reason of some in al kingdomes that hold the faith is aboue shewed not to iustifie but to condemne the Church of ROME But all those that had any communion with them in their worship c in the tyme of Poperie cannot in this estate be said to hold the true faith or to be members of the Church of CHRIST His third reason concerning the infantes is yet as false fonde as the rest For neither are the infants of these idolators by vs to be iudged holy or to receaue baptisme as he himself Pag. 49. confesseth Neither can these infantes anie waie iustifie their wicked Parents or the open idolatries c of the Romish Church Againe although it be most true that the truth was before error and apostasie yet herevpon it followeth not that error apostasie are of in the truth as this man would conclude of Antichrist That because he is said to rise in the Church of God and to sit in the TeÌ„ple of God Therfore the place where he now raigneth rageth is the Church of God But by all these rules of the word of God we finde the Sinagogues that Antichrist hath erected to be of the false malignant Church and the Church of ROME pronownced by God himself to be that great Whore Howsoeuer then Antichrist might haue his original and worcke in his mysterie in the visible Church yet as soone as his wickednes brake out and was apparant he forfeited his place was to be caste fourth as the Angells that sinned were precipitate out of heauen and cast headlong into Hel. Yea those Churches that neglected thus to doe and spared him in the iust iudgmeÌ„t of God lost their happie estate became guiltie of his sinne and partakers of his iudgment and fel away with him So then this phrase of Antichrist his sitting in The Temple of God might be much better vnderstoode then thus grosly to affirme thervpon that Aâ—tichrist now sitteth in the Church of God Whether we vnderstand this his sitting in the Temple of God as in regarde of his original before he was reueled Or in that he should sit where sometimes the true Churches of CHRIST had bene which he should so destroy waste as there should be no shape or steppes of any of them left vpon the earth as it was foretold Math. 24. 29. Reuel 6 14. Or ells of those counterfeight names and titles of the Temple Church of God which the false Church should arrogate and take vnto her self Howsoeuer nothing is more sure then that all these abhominations cannot remaine in the Church of God And in that it is in the same verse said that Antichrist shalbe lifted vp aboue all caled God or that hath veneration This cannot be donne by any Minister in the Church seing euerie soule must be subiect Furder also that he should shewe himself that he is God If this also should be liteâ—ally vnderstoode what blasphemie will not ensue And aswel might it from the same verse be enforced that Antichrist is God as that the place where he raigneth is the Temple of God THus hauing finished hisâ— cardinal reasons of Israel in their schisme Iuda in their apostasie and this vniuersall falling away and corruption in the time of Poperie to prooue the Church of England aswell as these the true Church of God he at length addeth a conclusion in this authenticall assertion of his owne The Church of England in the tyme of Poperie was a member of the vniuersall Church and had not the being of a Church of CHRIST from ROME nor tooke not her beginning of being a Church by separating herself from the Romish Sinagogue c. If he here meane that the Lord had his secret ones chosen and knowen vnto himself in England in the tyme of Poperie which were members of the vniuersall Church vve graunt vvel But what were this to approue the generall estate of England in the tyme of Poperie when they were throughly infected with the apostasie and idolatrie of the Church of ROME to be a visible member of the vniuersal church So that albeit they had not their being a Church from ROME yet they had their not being a Church from ROME when they were defiled with their apostasie and idolatrie Wherfore to haue this conclusion passe yt had beene needfull that Mr. GIFFARD had approued made euident demonstratioÌ„ by the Scriptures that the Church of ENGLAND was rightly gathered vnto and established in that holy faith and order which CHRIST hath left vnto his Church in vniuersall and perticular according to the rules and examples in his Testament Then that in tyme of Poperie they fel not away from this holy faith and order And that nowe they contynue and faithfully walke in the same faith and order This if he had donne then had he proued that which now he beggeth and assumeth Then had he powerfully convinced and stopped the mouthes of al Schismaticks and gaynesayers for euer But with al his learning and labour he hath not enterprised neither euer is able to proue this by Christes Testament The tyme past estate present of their Church of England witnesse the contrarie vnto his face and shew vnto all men how dieplie yt hath bene and still is infected with the Romish idolatries apostasie from the Testament of Christ and in what sort they haue at this daye caste forth the tyrannie yoak of Antichrist with his abhominations idolatries heresies false Worship false Ministerie and false gouernement c. He therfore in steade of approuing his Church by the rules of Christs Testament striueth to proue yt a true Church though yt consist of prophane multitudes neuer as yet rightly gathered vnto or established in the faitâ— and order of Christ though yt haue not Christs Ministrie and Officers which he hath appoynted vnto the Church but that false and antâ—christian Mâ—nâ—strie which the POPE erected vsed and left Though yt be gouerned not by the rules of Christes Testament but by the POPES Courtes Cannons c and such lawes as these Romish Bishopps doe deuise Though yt worship God after a Popish and most idolatrous maner though yt reiect the truth of God and persecute all such as call them vnto or stand for the same And this most barbarous and diuelish assertion he striueth to confirme by the schisme of Israel the apostasie of Iuda and the vniuersall defection and corruption of Poperie Vnto which our finall answere is that if anie of these 3. be iustified and finde mercie before the
profession of their owne faith obedience they cannot be receiued as members or haue communion with the Church Then vntil Mr. Giffard proue that the prophane multitudes and open wicked which neuer made anie voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience may be receiued as members into the Church he cannot iustifie these Parish assemblies of England or convince vs. Furder we graunt that wicked men such as fal away from their profession and obedience shal daylie arise in the church ells there should be no cause of Excommunication But when their sinne is publicke then ought the Church to ceÌ„sure it and if they be founde obstinate to caste them out ells were there no vse of ExcoÌ„munication We graunt also that the Church sometymes of negligence delaying in due tyme to caste out such wicked is notwithstanding if they amend vpon admonition to be held the true Church of God And this our aduersarye himself Pag. 56. acknowledgeth that we confesse although now forgetting himself his heart being fraught with malice he bursteth foorth in the gall therof accusing and sclandering vs to hold these heresies That where any wicked and open sinners worship together with the Church as members of the Church there the Couenant is disanulled with the whole Church Againe that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the Gospell they be not only vtterly voyde of fayth which offende but also all they that worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are fallen from the Couenant Thirdlie that we make the stablenes of Gods Couenant to depend vpon the worckes of men and not of the free grace and mercie of God How could this accuser drawe these heresies from this assertion It is the Church of CHRIST vvhich hath the power to Excommunicate though it fault much by negligence in executing the same Doth not the expresse contrarie herein appeare How can he then reconcile these chardges of his vnto this proposition of ours Or can he produce any one sentence that euer we wrote or spake conteyning such odious doctrines as these Yf not these heresies must stil retourne to his owne throate as to the sepulchre froÌ„ whence the sprange these chardges must remayne vpon his reckoning not vpon ours WE hold that the open prophane and wicked such as were neuer caled vnto the faith caÌ„not be receiued into the Church as members before they make open and voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience He that hath from the beginning distinguished light from darcknes hath alwaies made difference and separation betwixt the world the Church caling the one the Sonnes of God the other the daughters of men preseruing the one in his Arcke drowning the other in the floode he chose and separated to himself out of the whole world one peculiar Nation and people to be his visible Church to whom no prophane which made not professioÌ„ of the same faith might be admitted or ioyned in their worship The worde Ecclesia or Church we knowe to be a companie caled forth from the world as were CHRISTS Disciples and the faithfull in all places at the first gathering of the Church Againe we hold that such as are dulie entred into the Church falling from their profession and after due admonition remaine obstinate and hardened in their sinne ought by the Church to be excommunicate And if the Church being admonished stirred vp vnto their duetie refuse to obey execute the commandemeÌ„t of God that then vnto the faithfull it ceaseth to be the true Church of God and ought to be auoyded vntil they repent The Church of CHRIST must euer be obedient vnto CHRISTS voyce which voyce when they openlie despise wilfully resist they are a companie of rebells not a companie of Sainctes When they fal away from the faith they fal away from the Couenant of God when they obstinaâ—lie persist in sinne wilfully despise Gods voyce they fal away from the faith Faith belieueth reuerenceth and obeyeth Gods worde so far as yt is reueled vnto them and neuer wilfully despiseth or reiecteth anie anie part of the same God can neuer be seuered from his worde they that despise reiect Gods worde despise reiect God himself Christ ruleth and reigneth by the scepter of his owne worde they that are not subiect vnto but wilfully disobey that word are not subiect vnto Christ haue not him a Kinge but a Iudge ouer them Seuere lawes iudgments are set downe in God his worde against presumptuous sinne yea against al sinne wherof they denie to repent God hath executed these iudgments vpon the Angels that sinned vpon the original world vpon the Nation of the Iewes Neither wil anie vayne titles of Church Couenant c. excuse or deliuer them being founde in the like transgressions from the like iudgments God is iust his iudgments are alike pronounced executed against al as against one being founde wilfully remayning in the transgression of his lawe Nowe then vvhilest vve conclude that vvhere the people were neuer rightly caled vnto the faith or gathered vnto CHRIST and orderly ioyned together in Christ But multitudes of prophane al sortes of vvicked persons idolators Atheists c euen the whole land without any choice any separation receiued into their Church as members without any voluntarie profession of their owne faith that in this estate they cannot be esteemed the true planted Churches of CHRIST With what conscience or truth can this vngodly man herevpoÌ„ defame divulge vs to hold this heresie that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the gospell they be not only voyde of fayth which offend but all they also which worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are falen from the Couenant How can he liken these rowtes of prophane Atheists and wicked persons of the world to the faithful seruantes of CHRIST in his Church or compare their open wickednes which they commit even with greedines to the faultes eskapes of frailety or negligeÌ„ce in y e Sainctes Againe whilest we affirme That where open obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne whether yt be in the whole Congregation or in any perticular member there that Congregation or that member cannot by vs be iudged faithfull or within the outward Couenant vntill they repent with what feare of God or shame of men caÌ„ this maÌ„ publish vs to hold that where any open grosse sinne is committed by anie and they stil through ignorance or negligence are suffred in the Church there the Couenant to be disanulled with the whole Church And so we to fall into this heresie To make the stablenes of God his Couenant not to depend vpon mercie and free grace promised and bownde with an oathe but vpon our worckes yea vpon the worckes of other whom we must iudge THis heresie after he himself hath deuised in our name he procedeth to coÌ„fute yt with manie wordes shewing the stability
like false Prophets commanding them to take heede of them teaching them howe to knowe them by their fruictes Math. 7. 15. 16 willing them to let them alone as the blinde lâ—aders of the blinde vsing an argument of the ineuitable peril If the blinde leade the blinde both shall fal into the ditch Math. 15. 12. 13. 14. chardging them to beware of the leauen of the Pharasies Math. 16. 6. which leauen verse 12. they found to be the doctrine of the Pharasies To these if sondrie other places of his conflictes with these Scribes Pharasies be added it wil euidently appeare that he withdrewe his Disciples from their doctrines pronouncing euerie where woes iudgmentes against them That he made also a separation and especiall choise of his Disciples from the wicked people of the Iewes euidently appeareth by the office and ministerie of Iohn the Baptist. vvhom he sent as an Heralde before him to prepare his waye to proclaime his kingdome to call the people to repentance and to make readie a people to receiue him lest when he came he should smite the earth with cursing Mightely did Iohn refute all these vayne arguments allagations that Giffard alleadgeth of the seede of Abraham the outward Couenant Nation Temple c. Shewing them that God was able of stones to raise vp children vnto Abraham calling those boasting Pharasies the generation of vipers shewing them that only those trees that bring forth good fruicte are the plantes that shall stand and growe in the Lordes Orchard that the other shalbe hewen downe and caste into the fire and that the Lordes axe is nowe laide to the roote Shewing them that the Messiah of whom they boasted and whom they looked for should come with his fanne in his hand to cleÌ„se his barne floore to preserue his wheat in his granarie and to burne the chaffe with vnquenchable fire baptising none but such as coÌ„fessed their sinnes The same course toke our Sauiour CHRIST sending forth his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdome who receiued and baptized none but such as repented of their euill life and gaue obedience to their doctrine these our Sauiour acknowledged receiued taught instructed guided as his owne peculiar flocke But al the other as the sheepe of distruction he gaue ouer to be spoyled and deuoured of their owne rulers and one of an other to be guided by those wicked and idoll sheepheardes vvhose soule abhorred him and his soule loathed them Yea how ful a separation there was betwixt these sheepheardes and these flockes the hostilitie they shewed vnto our Sauiour and his Disciples by excommunicating persecuting blaspheming him and his rounde reprouing them euerie where in the historie of his life doth appeare Furder that he communicated not with them in their feastes offrings and worship in this their sinne and obstinacie appeareth as plentifully He a longe season when the Iewes laid wayte to kill him refrayned Iudea and Ierusalem At other tymes when he came thither it was not to keepe the feastes together with them so much as to take occasion vpon such concurse of people to instruct them and to call them vnto himself He sometimes went not at all sometimes went at the mid-feast And when he was there he kept not the Paschal together with them before the Temple according to the lawe Deutronomie 12. 5. Leuit. 17. But he kept yt apart with his Disciples in a priuate chamber As when there was no publicke assemblies as in Egipt or when the Temple was shut or polluted and the vvorship corrupted Exod. 12. 2 Chron. 35. yea he kept yt vpon an other daye namely vpon the 14. of the first moneth according to the lawe and not vpon that daye the Iewes kept theirs which was a daye after as appeareth euidently by the historie Math. 26. For the Iewes solemne feast or cessation ought by the lawe to haue bene vpon the 15. daye the next day after the Paschal vpon which daye they crucified our Sauiour and kept their feaste vpon the Sabaoth deferring the Paschal by their tradition one daye longer then the lawe commanded Leuit. 2. 4. 5. 6. Numb 28. 17. by all which reasons circumstances and places it is euident that our Sauiour and his Disciples did not communicate with but withdrewe from the Iewes and their worship in this their sinne and obstinacie By whose example this great Clearke Mr. GIFFARD hath endeuoured to confute the Brownistes of heresie and to prooue that the open wicked and prophane may be kept in the Church and communicated with and yet neither the Church therefore cease to be a true Church nor the faithfull which together with these prophane ioyne in the worship of God and the Sacraments be defiled therbie Yet to make the matter more sure he bringeth certaine Churches planted by the Apostles As the Church at Corinth and the Churches of Asia In the Church of Corinth were factions and schismes corruption in the teachers negligence in the Gouernours th' incestuous person suffred contentions among the people and that vnder heathen Iudges They feasted in idoll temple they prophaned the Supper of the Lorde they abused spirituall giftes some denied the resurrection of the deade yet the holie Ghost vouchsaueth them the name of the Church of God Well what of all this Therfore the wicked prophane multitudes which were neuer rightly gathered to the faith may be receiued as members into the Church We see no such consequent The Church of Corinth was orderly gathered by the Apostle vnto the faith none receiued but such as belieued and made open profession of their faith and obedience Sainctes by calling Agayne the Church of Corinth was rightly established into that order and had such Ministers Officers and ordinances as CHRIST in his Testament had assigned and th' Appostle instituted so hath not the Church of England but popish and antichristian Therfore no comparison thus far foorth betwixt the Church of Corinth and the Church of England Neither can these faults wherein he compareth the Church of England to the church of Corinth and wherein it is founde like vnto or rather far without all comparison to exceede them make the Church of England the true Church of God What is yt then this learned man would conclude from thence That the open prophane and obstinate wicked may be retained in and by the Church wittingly and willingly after admonition and yet that Congregation not cease to be the true Church of CHRIST This he striueth to proue And therfore where it is alleadged that the Church of Corinth repented at the Apostle his admonition and is by the Apostle himself said to haue shewed them selues pure in that busines 2. Corinth 7. he maketh vnto this a double answeare One that they were Godes true Church before they repented The other that all did not shewe repentance as appeareth 2. Corinth 12. 20. 21. To the first we answeare and neuer denied That they being rightly gathered vnto the faith and orderly established
sometime of an other minde you must thincke it was before he had so neere friendship with or was imployed in such trustie seruices by his Lord of Londō Who as also his Lords grace must not be driuen to proue euerie thing they affirme that were enough to put young diuines vnto their pontifical mouth is sufficient warrant to all the Churches in England Yet I would of their curtesie they would giue vs their Schismatiks that cannot be so satisfied leaue to doubt though we wil not contēd whether their Caling Consecration and this their Power first came not from the Pope For albeit we haue heard that the offices of Prouincial Bishops Arch Bishops Metropolitanes where almost when this general defection from the gospel so much foretold of began to breake out and appeare longe before the Pope obtayned his Supremacie ouer al other Churches and Ministers Yet might it be that this maner of their caling solemne consecration and lardge irregular power of his Lords Grace Lord Bishops sprong from their vnholie Father the Pope Who when he was inthronized by Sathan had receiued the Dragons high commission to be his Vicare general in earth could not of his fatherhoode but prouide for these his natural childrē and bestowe them in his garrison Cities as his Tetrarches Lieutenants Tribunes with magnificent titles priuiledges power and authoritie to rule in his name and absence euen as his owne engrauen image ouer all Realmes Countries Territories within their Fathers dominiōs For as we haue also crediblie hearde there was neuer a Lorde Arch-Bishop or Lorde Bishop with such titles priuiledges power hearde of before the Pope created them Notwithstanding because wee haue these thinges but bie hearesay and would be lothe to affirme of things so vnsure we wil content our selues to haue proued and shewed the Arch Lord Bisshops to be no true Ministers of the gospel and Church of CHRIST and therfore of themselues antichristian from whom or howsoeuer they rise it skilleth vs not Neither shall it auaile them though they haue broken their faith and schismed from the Pope cast off his yoke renownced his vsurped power and tyrannie when they themselues are rounde to vsurpe retaine and exercise if not the same yet as antichristian enormous a power as the Pope retayning the same Courts Officers Cannons constitutions priuileges ouer all Churches Ministers causes doctrines censures they themselues not being subiect to the censure of anie Church exercising their aucthoritie and commandementes contrarie vnto and aboue all lawes both of God and of their Prince whose Royall Courts and writts are not of power to baile anie one committed by the leaste of their hierarchie assuming vnto themselues both the swordes exercising together and at once both ciuile and ecclesiasticall offices c. How well they aduance the Gospel of CHRIST that blaspheme the same and pronounce the rules ordinances and ministrie therof intollerable and persecute all such as either speake against them or for yt Let the tyrannous hauocke they make in the common wealth of poore christians in the prisons of the land shewe How wel by the liuelie worde they cut downe all idolatrie heresies and popish abhominations let the seruice-booke and publick worship of their Churche shewe Which whilest with a stronge hande they obtrude vpon euerie conscience as also impose vpon the Church is not this to tyrannize and exercise a Lordship ouer the faith and conscience Or to speake as he doth is this nothing but to execute the external discipline to make and impose a newe Leitourgie for the whole administration of the Church Or is it likelie that this marcked Minister of ANTICHRIST knewe what the outward gouernment of CHRIST in his Church meaneth that saith yt concerneth not the conscience Is there anie more dreadful or reuerend action on earth amongst men then the iudgmentes of CHRIST in his Church which are al most holie and true Or doe not these concerne the conscience Doth not euerie action of which there are such certaine lawes set by CHRIST himself nearelie concerne the conscience to doe it according to the same when the least abuse neglect or swaruing from the rule euen in the least circumstance that is enioyned in the least censure doth so deface the action is so offensiue preiudicial do not those actions which are donne for the saluation of soules that are said to binde in heauen not concerne the conscience Or doe not those rules which are giuen for the direction and preseruation of the publick communion of the whole Church and priuate conuersation of euerie member therof without the obseruation of which rules there can be no order no dutie either publick or priuate no holie walking in anie caling kept concerne the conscience Except Mr. Giffard can imagine such a Congregation and such members therof as either neuer sinne and so need no watching ouer admonition reproof Or ells such a Church and members therof as make no conscience of anie thing as when they sinne will not amend wil not heare admonition or suffer reproof which is the meanes giuen of God to bring them to amendement Yet Mr. Giffard maketh this holie outward gouernment of CHRIST ouer and in his Church not to concerne the conscience the myserable diuines of this age not to be of necessitie to the beeing and preseruation of a Church the blasphemous Bisshops of this land not to be a thing tollerable with manie other reprochfull blasphemies of the same which are not of anie christian almost to be hearde or repeated much lesse pronounced and defended These husbandmen are they that caste the Sonne and heyre out of the vineyarde that wil not haue him reigne ouer them but take the regiment into their owne hands deuising and erecting a newe forme of gouernement vnto the Church as these their popish Courtes Cannons Customes Officers declare and persecuting with al hostility and tyranny all such as pleade for Christes gouernement and wil not subiect their bodies and soules vnto their antichristian yoke But yet for all this they exercise no Lordship ouer the faith and conscience though they vsurpe exercise and impose this strange ministrie ministration and gouernement in and ouer the Church All this saith Mr. Giffard is but th'administration of exernall discipline and concerneth not the conscience especiallie if it be seared with a whote Iron as Mr. Giffard is Wherfore we doe impudentlie and wickedlie sclander when wee therfore conclude that the Bishops be antichristian and whosoeuer is ordayned by them hath his ministrie from Antichrist and from the Deuil What kinde of ministrie your Lord Bishops exercise and aucthoritie they vsurpe by that which is alreadie written the reader may iudge or at leaste hath a direct way shewed furder to examine What kinde of rule they keepe or as you call it discipline they execute remaineth to be tryed in the fourth principal transgression Where if you make not a better defence for it then you haue donne for their
al these Parsons stand subiect hauinge sworne their Canonical obedience to their Courtes Cannons commaÌ„dements to their sommance censure controlement for al their actions ministrie conversation to be made Ministers deposed from their ministrie silenced sequestred suspended by them The true christian Pastor as by vertue of his office intangleth not himself neither intermedleth with â—iuile actions and affayres But these parrish Parsons especialie these of the Countrie are busied and almost wholly entangled with renting tithing prowling their Parrishners whether faithfull or vnfaithfull riche or poore Widowes or Oâ—phanes they marrie they burie c by vertue of their office and are â—o all outwarde seeming and iudgment rather Rieues and Bayliffes then Ministers of the Gospel Yea if it be true which some writers of no smale accompt both olde and new haue written of them these parrish Parsons were at the first deuised and brought in to serue the Metropolitanes in the offices of Rieues and Bayliffs to gather vp their rents c. Againe the true christian Pastors office cannot be possessed by anie ciuiâ—e person But the parrish Parsons office may be and often is bestowed vpon Ciâ—ilians Phisâ—â—ons who if they weare the Priestes weedes inioyned It sufficeth Not here meaning or speaking of impropriatioâ—s which haue no office and chardge of anie Ministrie yt being transferred to a Vicare endoâ—ed Moreouer the christian Pastors office caÌ„not be kept or executed by a man absent or by anie other in that Congregation wherof he is chosen then by the elect of that Congregation But the Parrish Parsons office may be kept by a man absent executed by an Attourney or Curaeie Finnaly euerie true christian Pastor is by that his officie a Bishop But no Parrish Parson is by vertue of that his office a Bishop Therfore and for al these reasons abouesayd the parrish Parsons office can in no iuste intendement be held the true christian Pastors office NOwe let vs procede to their entrance this being first a position perpetual That euerie true Minister of the Churche must not onlie be caled to a true office but must haue a true right caling vnto that his office otherwise he is no true Minister but an vsurper an intruder a theife a murderer Euerie true Minister then by the rules of the worde ought to be thus caled Euerie perticular Congregation being a faithfull flocke destitute of some Minister for example of a Pastor ought to make choice of some one faithful christian of whose vertues knowledge iudgment fitnes and conversation according to the rules in that behalf prescribed they haue assured proofe and experience in some christian Congregation or other where he hath liued Such a one the whole Congregation being gathered together in the name of God with fasting prayer for the especial assistance of his holy spirite to be directed to that person whom the Loâ—de hath made meete and appointed vnto them for that high chardge and Ministrie In which Election euerie perticular member of the said Congregation hath his peculiar interest of assent or dissent shewing his reasons of dissent in reuerent maner not disturbing the holie and peaceable order of the Church Whose exceptions and reasons are to be considered of and compared to the rules of the worde if they be founde peremptorie and true As the partie to be of no founde iudgment in the faith of no sufficient knowledge in the scriptures a drunckarde a smiter coveteous one that ruleth not wel his owne house wife children theÌ„ yeildeth the whole Church to their reasons or rather to the word of God But if their exceptions be vnsufficient or vntrue then procedeth and standâ—th their Election and the persons that take them are publicklie reprouâ—d according to their offence This choice thus made accepted and determined the elect is to be publicklie ordayned and receiued in and of the same CongregatioÌ„ wherof and whervnto he is chosen If there be an Eldership in that CongregatioÌ„ by them as the most meete instruments with fasting prayer exhortations c if not then by the help of the Elders of some other faithful Congregation one Churche being to help and assist an other in these affaires But if the defection and apostasie be so generall as there be not anie where anie true Elders to be founde or conveniently to be had yet then hath the Church that hath power and commandemeÌ„t to chuse and to vse Ministers yea that only hath that most high and great spirituall power of our Lorde Iesus Christ vpon earth committed vnto their handes power also to ordaine their Ministers by the most fit members and meanes they haue For the Eldership doth not add more power but more helpe and seruice to the Church in this action Neither doth this action which is but a publishing of that former contract and agreement betwixt the whole Church and these elect the Church giuing the elect receiuing these offices as by the commandement of God with mutuall couenant and vowe each to other in al dueties belonge to the Elders onlie as separate from the Church but to the Elders as the most fit members and instruments of the Churche to doe yt for and in the Churche Otherwise when the true ministrie ceased as in the generall apostasie they could neuer againe be recouered in the Church because they cannot haue this ordination of true christian Elders and so must the ministrie sacraments and ordinances of Christes Testament cease for euer and the true established Churche neuer be seene againe vpon earth Vnlesse with the Papistes they â—il make a personal successioÌ„ of Ministers in some place euer since the Apostles tyme. Or with Mr. Giffard make a true publick ministrie sacrameÌ„ts c in the Church of Rome in the diepest apostasie Which yet of al other is the most absurd PropositioÌ„ that euer I suppose was vttered by anie man or published and allowed by anie Churche contrarie to al the rules of Gods worde and eueÌ„ to it self For how can there be by anie reasonable man immagined or seene publicke apostasie and publick faith in the same estate at one and the same instant Likewise if of necessity the ordinatioÌ„ must always be donne by a christian Presbutrie or Eldership we woulde then knowe of them by what Elders Mr. Luther Mr. Caâ—uine or our Englishe Bishopps in K. EDVVARDES daies were ordayned Other Elders then of the Popish Churche there were not then to be founde Now these are sure groundes that cannot be doubted of The true ministrie of Christ doth not belonge vnto and may execute no ministrie in the false Churche Neither yet hath the execrable ministrie of the false Church anie thing to doe to ordaine the true ministrie of CHRISTES Churche neither is their Ordination auaileable If then the Churche of Rome and the ministrie therof were false and antichristian then cannot the ministrie of these men which was then in that estate giuen and
and not from CHRIST we all with our bodily eyes see the Church of ENGLAND hath receiued them We see they beare not CHRISTS but Antichrists image marcke life power What then should hinder this assertion that they together with Antichrist their heade doe growe liue raigne stand and fal as the branches with the tree Should a revoulte diuision and schisme in a kingdome within yt self No this but hasteneth the Lordes iudgmentes the sooner to make it desolate Can this revoulte and schisme either transforme or reforme this ministerie Let their present estate iudge Should Antichristes changing his shape from his mysterie to his exaltation from his exaltation to his Consumption Or his Ministers transforming and masking themselues vnder shewes and visardes of righteousnes make them euer the better or hide and defend them from the light No all thinges when they are reprooued of the light are manifest The light of the Gospel shal discouer and abolish Antichrist As he rose by degrees so shall he by degrees vanish As he and his trayne rose out of the smoke of the bottomlesse pit Reuel 9. so shall they all goe into vtter darckenes euen thether againe The Beast and the false Prophet shalbe taken by him that rideth on the white horse and his holie armie these both shal aliue be cast into that lake of fire burning in brimstone The Lord himself hath spoken yt Reuel 19. NOwe let vs see what arguments Mr. GIFFARD after more then two yeeres studie hath brought vs to approoue his ministrie by He told vs erewhile that they were true Ministers of the Gospel Pastors Teachers had a true calling and ordination Nowe come his proues The ministerie of the Gospell vvhich bringeth the vvorde of faith and reconciliation betwixt God and the vvorld is the true ministerie of CHRIST for the Diuel and Antichrist ordaine no such ministerie Nowe the ministerie of the Church of England doth bring no vvorde nor doctrine but the sacred Scriptures yt preacheth faith in God through CHRIST and the doctrine of repentance deliuering the holie Sacraments as seales to confirme the same Let all the schismaticks of the vvorlde barck c. I am lothe to take Mr. GIFF. in a Parologisme at the first where reasons are so geason lest hereafter we haue no more especially lest we haue more varyance about the forme then about the matter in this yet when he shall haue reduced it to right forme he shall then but haue beggâ—d that which we demanded and still looke that he should prooue vzt That their ministrie is the true ministrie of the Gospell This because euerie true ministrie of the Gospell is in some office vnto which office there must needes be a true and lawfull calling therefore we desired him to prooue their ministrie in the office entrance c by the scriptures Mr. GIFF. giuing vs his bare worde that they are Pastors Teachers making no proofe thereof quite ouerskippeth their office and entrance and prooueth them Ministers because they doe administer As if a priuate person should reason thus I haue knowledge of the lawe I administer true iustice and iudgment Therfore I am a true Iudge a lawfull Magistrate Doth he thinck that this reason wil excuse this vsurper either before God or his Prince If he then wil haue anie better speede let him prooue his ministerie directly and plainely by the scriptures first in the office he chalengeth then in his caling vnto his office as al the Apostles and true Ministers of CHRIST haue donne and ought to doe And then if he can iustifie his administration and be founde faithfull he shall haue praise with God and man Otherwise by this balcking and begging that he should and hath bene so often vrged to prooue he but manifesteth his weaknes and forgerie in those poynctes and but to loseth as many of these preposterous argumentes as he bringeth Yet that he be not too far conceipted or any other deceiued with this argument against his next booke we giue him to wiete That the second part of his argument is a false and impudent assumption The Church of ENGLAND bringeth and emposeth an other worde and other ordinances then the holie scriptures as that deuised abhominable Leitourgie their idoll seruice-booke the rule and foundation yea the verie matter substance of their publick worship and administration their popish superstitious ceremonies and trincketts their vngodly and antichristian ordinances ministrie and gouernement To all these abhominations they ioyne or rather subiect and abuse the Gospell And therfore preach not faith in God nor CHRIST neither the doctrines of repentance truly and sincerely but denie God in their workes and CHRIST in his offices They beare the yoke of Antichrist drawe all the people vnto them souder them euen the most wicked impenitent in their sinne and iniquitie with their prayers preaching and sacramentes Not suffring any to forsake these seene sinnes and abhominations or to come vnto CHRIST but drawing and holding all the land vnder the wrath of God c. NExt he by the way maketh a learned apologie for y e dumbe Pastors of the Church of England his bretheren against whom if yt be obiected that their ministrie is not the ministrie of reconciliatioÌ„ because they cannot preach the Gospel He here setteth downe a learned note by way of two rare distinctions We must first he saith distinguish betwixt the ministrie the Minister The man may be of the Diuel and yet his ministrie of God Then we must distinguish betwixt the function yt self and the execution of the same As when the office is laide vpon one that cannot preach the function it self is entire the defect only in the execution therof Therfore the ministrie of the Church of England is the ministrie of the Gospell though some doe not and others cannot preach Sure this is so subtily contriued as men of meane iudgmeÌ„t capacitie shall neuer be able to perceiue how it is or may be brought about The first Distinction is graunted so the sinne of the Minister be secrete or not such as disableth him to the ministrie But what of this may any open vnworthie or insufficient person be a Minister Or is the ministrie of such a one good acceptable Ther is no such consequence from hence to be gathered To the second in like maner it followeth not because we may distinguish and put difference betwixt the office yt self and the execution of the office that therfore any office of the Church may be giuen to anie open vnsufficient or vnworthie person Or if yt be that the ministrie of such a one is good or acceptable For the calling of the Church cannot enhable such open insufficient to the ministrie whom God refuseth or make acceptable that ministration which God disaloweth Nowe then these dumbe Pastors that cannot preach are apparantly insufficient and incapeable of that office therfore no calling of men can make them true and lawfull
Ministers And being no true or lawfull Ministers their ministration is then vnlawfull accursed abhominable to God men These then being allowed Ministers and their ministration publiquely by lawe approued and receiued in the Church of England we may conclude the publicke ministrie and ministration of the Church of England to be vnlawfull accursed and abhominable thus far foorth notwithstanding Mr. Giffardes payre of distinctions Otherwise if he laboured to prooue the ministerie of the Gospell to be in yt self alwaies entire holie and blessed notwithstanding the infirmities faultes of meÌ„ this all men will graunte and needed not his learned distinctions to prooue the same But what is this to prooue the ministrie of these dumbe Pastors Or the other ministrie of the Church of England to be that ministerie of the Gospell which we for all the reasons aboue alleadged confidently denie HIs second reason Such as haue the caling ordination of the Church haue the ministrie of CHRIST For it is giuen to the Church to cal ordaine Ministers In the next sectioÌ„ his Minor followeth In EnglaÌ„d the Ministers haue their caling ordination by the Church of GOD Therfore c. To the Maior he addeth a clause that yt may be a true caling notwithstanding some faultes of ignoraÌ„ce or otherwise So he vnderstand this otherwise to be of negligence and not of anie wilful obstinate transgressioÌ„s Or not any of those pereÌ„ptorie faultes excepted by the holy Ghost which disable the elect disanul the electioÌ„ then we thus far assent But wheÌ„ we reason of the caling of the ministri of England we speake not of a true caling though vnperfect with some faultes of ignoraÌ„ce or negligence but of a false counterfeit antichrâ—stiaÌ„ caling which we haue proued affirme theirs to be The caling of the Church ought alwaies to be yt caling of Christ prescribed in his Testament which theirs is not To his Minor now first we denie the Churche of England to be the true established Churche of Christ. He prooueth it thus That people vvhich hath forsaken heresies and false vvorship and imbraced the doctrine of the Gospell hath in it the true Church vvhich hath the power Wee obserue much subtiltie and feare in this position For whereas he ought to haue affirmed Are the true Church and haue the power he fearefullie subtilly saith hath in it the true Church which hath the power not daring to iustifie or ioyne issue of their outward estate but leauing himself a starting hole to flee to such secret ones as God may call and haue amongst them We doubt not but God hath in Turckye or Persia yea in the Church of ROME manie deare elect but should we therfore say that Turcky Persia Rome are the true Church We affirme also will approue against al the false Prophets of the world that in this land the Lord hath such a people that haue thus forsaken heresies false worship embraced the Gospell and haue this power of CHRIST But we denie this their Church to consist of this people to haue forsakeÌ„ heresies false worship to haue truly embraced the Gospel or to haue this power of CHRIST to elect ordaine excoÌ„municate or to redresse anie enormitie but are dryuen to these antichristian Bishopps for al these Who receiue not power of the Church but vsurpe and exercise absolute power ouer the Church yea the whole power of the Church as hath bene shewed Which is vnlawfull either for the Church to giue or for any true christian to receiue or execute Neither can th'aucthoritie of anie mortall men or Parlament make that lawfull which God in his worde condemneth and forbiddeth And so euen by this his owne allegation all this ministrie made by standing vnder this vsurped inordinate antichristian power of the Bishopps are also vnlawfull To which if we add the vnlawfulnes of the office these Ministers are called vnto and execute the vnlawfulnes of their calling in the whole maner therof vnto by and in no flocke certaine the vnlawfulnes of the ordayners as also of the ordayned their open ambition greedines and insufficientcy their false maner of probation and ordination with all the vngodly and execrable ceremonies vowes othes subscriptions vsed to the same none can mistake this caling and ordination of the Ministers of ENGLAND for that true holie election and ordination of the Church of CHRIST without which true caling there can be no true Minister No true Church may vse or can iustifie anie such false caling as theirs And so still we must leaue Mr. GIF to proue the office caling of his ministrie THis Clarke procedeth to an other reason That ministrie is of God which is to bring men to the faith and to build vp the bodie of CHRIST The ministrie of England is to none other end Therfore c. The Minor he proueth Because the whole drift scope and burden laide vpon them is to feede vvith vvholesome doctrine to guide in the waies of godlines the sheepe of CHRIST walking before them in godlie conuersation Mr. G. said erewhile that the Ministers of England were no intruders But sure vt seemeth they are verie nimble leapers which skippe ouer the hatch into the house wil not stay vntil the Master of the house cal vntil the Porter of the house open but without any lawfull calling or entrance wil needes thrust themselues Ministers vpon the Lord and his Church whether he and they wil or no. Yea Mr. Giff. wil proue himself these his presumptuous companions true Ministers without this caling or entrance by the endes of their administration although the Lorde of the house neuer caled them to be builders or coÌ„mitted vnto them the worcke and ministrie of his house The deceiptfulnes and disorder of these kinde of argumeâ—ts wee haue aboue shewed and with the same general answeare might dismisse this Saue that by the way wee must giue him to vnderstand That his Assumption is a shamelesse presumption They build not vpon but destroye the house of God the bodie of Christ. This their worcke the present estate of their Church witnesseth to their face and sheweth what maner of worckmen they are where we finde not one pinne nayle or hooke in due order and proportion according to the true paterne They feed not the Lordes sheepe but the Lordes goates and that not with wholesome foode with sincere milke that they might growe and be encreased therby as the generall sinne prophannes and ignorance of al estates both Priestes and people declare Neither guide they in the way of godlines but in the wayes of destruction and calamitie They haue al declined bene made together vnprofitable And the way of peace they haue not knowen And as for the conuersatioÌ„ of these Priestes it may wel be an example to the flock in al idolatry superstition impiety vnfaithfulnes apostasie halting and dissembling with God and man worldlines coueteousnes deceipt and what not So that the
this tyme after that Gods spirit had wrought effectuallie in their and our hearts and opened our eyes to see part of his holy truth as also some of the heinouse abhominations committed defended and wilfullie persisted in in the false Church and ministrie constantlie euen to death bandes to witnesse against the same and to forsake the false Church notwithstanding al the pretextes gâ—oses and arguments the falfe Prophet shal adorne the Harlot with or make for his Ministry So deare is the loue of God of his holy truth vnto vs as we can suffer our selues neither by men or Angels be drawen into anie seene or willing transgression of his holy word And as for these arguments of Mr. Giffard what other are they then the Papistes haue brought against the first faithfull witnesses Iohn Husse Ierome of Pâ—â—ge Luther Caluine Frith â—indal c Or may bring at this daye against al the Churches that are departed from them Vnto the execution of our Ministery is ioyned the effectual grace power blessing and operation of the holy Ghoste to the true convertion of some mens soules Therfore our Ministrie is not of the diuil or Antichrist but indeed the true ministry of Christ. Ells al that haue liued thus manie hundred yeeres before you in our Church and knew not these newe learninges you hold are damned Ells all that haue died in our Church are damned yea ells you must hold al the Kinges and Princes Nobles Pieres and people in our Church reprobates c. But let vs come to your selues ye that are the aucthors of this Schisme Where had you your faith your first knowledge of God and of Christ if not in this Church by our ministrie we haue the true scriptures amongst vs we teache truly concerning the Godhead and the thee persons therof God the Father God the Sonne and God the Holy Ghost though distinct in persons yet one God c We preach Christ in his two natures verie God and verie man That he came into the world for the saluation of al mankinde That God so loued the world that he gaue his only begotteÌ„ Sonne that whosoeuer belieueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting Wee preach Christ crucified for our sinnes dead buried risen againe ascended glorified We preach him in his three offices to be our King Priest and Prophet Wee preach al the fundamental articles of our christian faith and as wee preach so you belieue al these Yea and we appeale to your consciences whether you haue founde ioy and comfort in your owne soules at the preaching of these doctrines Againe we preach the lawes of God in the tables and beate downe such sinnes as wee see to be contrarie to the same in such sort as manie are drawen to repentance to hatred sorrowe and remorce for sinne And these againe wee raise vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenes and with the promises of eternal life These things if ye schismaticks feele not yet vnto many others which by our preaching are converted vnto the Lorde indeed which vnto feare trembling doe feele the power sweetnes of the liuely worde we may say as the Apostle vnto the Corinthians in like case If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet ame I one vnto you ye are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord. And as for you Lutherans if you contynue not that is not our default if you fal from grace It is enough for vs that you haue felt this maiestie of the worde and it sufficeth to proue our ministrie that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with yâ— when men haue bene so moued though they contynue not seeing the reprobate may feele this power and taste this sweetnes for a tyme. Now then our ministry being thus proued by the law and the Gospel and by the testimony of the holy Ghost in these powerful effectes How can you thus separate from the meanes of your saluation from that ministry which hath begotten in you or at least doth begeat in others this knowledge faith comfort c Our ministrie theÌ„ being thus proued our Church must needes followe for a true ministrie doth not belong neither is at anie time founde in a false Church Yea you must graunt that whilest we hold the true foundation wee are the true Church though we erre in matters of circumstance other doctrines as you thincke yet that taketh not away our beeing of a Church The Churches at Corinth Gallatia Asia abounded with many faults errors corruptions as we reade yet are saluted by the Apostles recorded by the holy Ghost as true Churches Now that we hold the foundation our confession of the articles of our christian faith the ten coÌ„mandementes the Lordes prayer c. which you also confesse and vse shewe Therfore whilest you depart from vs you depart from the true Church Herevpon they might also vse those rethoricall flowers of Mr. GIFFARD his diuinitie to rayle reproach and invaye That they are ranck Donatistes Lutherans ignorant furious franctick schismatickes yea damnable heretickes forsaking the ministerie and truth of God condemning the Church of God bringing the holie ministerie thereof into contempt and so bring in flat atheisme barbarisme rebellion against Magistrates c. Howe thincketh Mr. Giff. would not these argumentes fit the Papistes aswell against them as they do him against vs Is he not driuen to hard shift when he must borrowe weapons of them to defend himself his Church ministrie worship gouernment They must needes stand fast when they are built vppon their groundes Let him then first answeare the Papistes to these reasons before he bring them against vs and then if he be not satisfied he shall heare what we can say to them For sure if they be not of force to bring them home againe to their Mother of ROME they wil neuer perswade vs to goe backe to them In the meane time Mr. Gif we signifie vnto you concerning this reason which you vrge and dilate That it is a ground of Anabaptistrie to iustifie open transgression by inwarde motions It is a grounde of Atheisme to pleade for or tollerate sinne because of such good effectes as you imagine to procede therof Mr. GIFFARD his next argument is drawen from our confession VVe confesse that they vvere blessed Martyres that suffred in Q. MARIES daies But thei were converted by the same ministeâ—ie vvhich vve haue now They had the same motions at the preaching of Latimer Hoper Taylor Bradford which our people haue noâ— at our preaching and Sacraments touching saith repentance and resolution to die for the testimonie of the Lorde Therfore let the Brownistes and al other wicked schismaticks barck that vve hâ—â—e no ministrie c. This reason hangeth vpon the same thread with this other last before and is built vpon the same popish and Anabaptistical grounds Touching the persons of these Martyres we haue alreadie in our first replie vnto your answeare set downe our christian opinion and iudgment Yet
Martyres will not approue the antichristian offices gouernment of these Prelates nor yet iustifie the publick worship ministrie confusion sacriledge of the Church of England Mvchlesse wil these two lame propositions of M r. G. his final argument beare vpp his forged conclusion where he concludeth the Brownistes hereticks c Because they condemne a Church as quite deuorced separate from Christ For such imperfections corruptions in Gods worship as are not fundamental nor destroy the substance For that wicked men come with the godly to the publicke exercises of religion For some wantes in calling ordayning Ministers And for some wantes in ecclesiastical discipline If M r. GIF had taken the wise mans councel he should not haue answered a matter before he vnderstood it much-lesse would he if he had bene ledd by the spirit of God haue blasphemed the truth or cōdemned the innocent without cause But as he began his booke without councel cōtinued it without grace and ended it without truth so hath he herebie but purchased to himself shame and brought vpon his owne head the iudgments due to an accuser a blasphemer a false witnesse and iudge What opinion the Brownistes hold of the Church of England their worship people ministrie gouernment we neither knowe nor regard neither is there cause whie we should be chardged or condemned for their errors faultes For which themselues and this Church of ENGLAND that receiueth and nourisheth all sectories hereticks wicked and abhominable persons whatsoeuer shall accompt For vs whom it pleaseth M r. G. to terme Brownistes and whome he endeuoreth to confute in this treatise we neuer condemned any true Church for anie fault whatsoeuer knowing that where true faith is there is repentance where true faith and repentance are there is remission of all sinnes Far be it from vs to condemne anie whom CHRIST iustifieth 1. And for the Church of ENGLAND we neither did or doe condemne yt as this accuser suggesteth for such imperfections and corruptions in their worship as be not fundamentall or destroy the substance but we condemned the publick worship of their Church of ENGLAND presently inioyned receiued and vsed as deuised by men popish superstitious idolatrous abhominable not such as God commandeth requireth or accepteth and therfore not such as anie faithfull christian may offer vp vnto God be compelled or consent vnto This wee shewed in the first PRINCIPALL TRANSGRESSION this we haue proued in the first part of this treatise 2. Secondly wee condemne not the Church of England as separate from CHRIST for that wicked mē come with the godly to the publick exercises of religion But rather as neuer rightly gathered to CHRIST for that al the prophane and wicked ar receiued and retayned as members of their Churche Wee gladlie acknowledge that CHRIST came a light into the world to offer saluation vnto all men to haue built his Church vpon an hil there to be lifted vp by the preaching of the word as a standard to al people and passengers there to haue made a feast to al natiōs and thither to inuite them Neither were we euer so enuious of the saluation of others or of the glorie of God as hauing founde mercie and being entred our selues to shut the doore or stop the fountaine of Gods grace against others yea God is witnesse with what heartie desire we long after them all that they euen our greatest persecutors might be partakers of the same saluatiō ioy comfort happines with vs And howe wee intermit not much-lesse exclude anie meanes thervnto that God putteth in our power though it were with the hazarde of our owne lyues to bring them of the water of the wel at Bethelem But now though we affirme that al the vnbelieuing prophane not onlie may but ought to resort to the publick exercises of religion in the Church as the most excellent meanes to call them to the faith yet do we not therfore belieue or affirme that the prophane or vnbelieuing may be receiued or admitted as mēbers of the Church before they haue made voluntarie publick profession of their owne faith and obedience Or being entered by such profession be permitted longer to stand or remayne of the Church then they contynue orderlie to walke in the same faith and obedience And therfore we blamed these parish assemblies of England as consisting of a confuse multitude of al sortes of prophane and wicked people in differentlie where they are al receiued nourished and retayned as mēbers of y e Church though they were neuer called gathered by the power of the worde entered receiued by the profession of their owne faith neither walke orderlie in the faith or in anie duties either publick or priuate And so are al guiltie of most high sacriledge prophanatiō of the holy things of God No such assemblie or communion of Sainctes as Christes faithful seruantes ought to repaire or ioyne vnto This wee shewed in the second PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION This we haue lardgly proued in the secōd part of this treatise 3. Thirdly we condemne not the Church of England for some wantes in calling and ordayning Ministers But for hauing maintayning and retayning a false and antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them with a false antichristian calling ordination euen the self same that the Pope vsed left in this Realme which false offices and ministrie cannot be ioyned vnto or exercised in the true Church of CHRIST This wee shewed in the thirde PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION this we proued in the third part of this treatise And therfore with an euil and corrupt conscience hath Mr. G. sought to hide this transgression vnder some vvantes in the calling and ordaining Ministers and thus boldlie and falselie thervpon to accuse vs. Wee knowe there may be faultes either of ignorance or negligence in the calling ordination c yet these not to disanul the action much-lesse the Couenant so longe as they are not obstinatlie held and persisted in But our assertion and controuersie here is not of a faultie ministrie caling ordination c but of a false ministrie caling ordination c which we haue proued theirs to be and that no such belongeth vnto may be imposed receiued or retayned in the Church of CHRIST 4. Fourthly in like maner wee reason not of some wantes in the gouernment and order of their Church but of a false and antichristian gouernment set ouer the Church Neither condemne we the Church of ENGLAND for some faultes in a true ecclesiasticall gouernment but for hauing and standing vnder a false and antichristian gouernment euen the self same Hierarchie Officers Courtes Cannons Customes Priuileges Proceedings that the Pope vsed and left This wee also haue shewed in the 4 TRANSGRESSION and haue nowe in this fourth parte and through this booke fullie proued their present ecclesiastical gouernment to be To which fower principall transgressions a willfull obstinacie an open reiecting resisting the truth al reprofe a violent and most hostile
Church whereof they were Ministers And yet to stop his mouth farder if the Martyres and first witnesses had a true ministrie such also haue sondrie of vs whom he termeth Brownistes c yea by so much a better as he holdeth the ministrie of the Churche of England better then the ministrie of the Church of Rome Yea if M r. G. his owne ministrie be good such the same haue diuers of vs had and are as yet vndisgraded otherwise then by vnfaigned repentance of so detestable a Ministrie So that if they lost not their ministrie by forsaking the Churche they receaued it of and exercised it in why shoulde M r. G. be so seuere to iudge others that may make the same plea If they saye they left not the Church of Rome but the corruptiōs therof what should let vs to alleadge the same nowe against them if we would stand vpon those shiftes doublings But we vse no such coloured excuses neither relye vpon mens persons and doinges wee haue the expresse commandement of God for our warrant of al those thinges we doe or refuse to doe and stand to make proofe tryal therof by the same word gladly submitting our selues al our actions and whole faith vnto this tryal Although also we haue and vse th'examples and practize of these faithful that first came out of the popish Churche and enterprised the erection and practize of Christes Ministrie ordinances amongst themselues according to that measure of knowledge God gaue them Whose errors though wee shunne neither will mainetayne our owne when they shalbe shewed vs cleauing onlie to the true paterne of Gods word yet make we their presidēt a bulwark for vs against these cauilling enimies Who must for doing these thinges either condemne them and so themselues and their whole Church and doings with them Or ells with no shame or iustice condemne vs of heresie schisme sectes presumption intrusion rebellion c for doing the self same thinges they did or at the least professed to doe yea for doing them better nearer the true paterne then they did If they in this doing neither intruded without caling nor presumed aboue their caling Why are we iudged for this doing to doe both yea for this saying to haue put an halter about our neckes Doth not this our hange-man executioner that with ioye speaketh of the chaynes and fetters that these bloodie Bishopps lay vpon the faithful seruantes of Christ for leauing their antichristian yoke and seking Christs heauenlie gouernment put with the same hande and trise the halter about these godlie Martyres neckes yea about his owne and his Lorde Bishops neckes and al the Ministers neckes of the land that haue no other defence for their vngodly ministry and doings then the erroneous practize of these godly Martyres who as hath bene proued were but priuate men at their first cōming out of popery erection of these Churches as we now be Mr. GIFF. had not best shew vs manie of these trickes of legier du main lest he ensnarrle choke himself with the same halter he would cast about our neckes and kil himself his whole Church with that sharpe weapon wherwith he would kill vs at once in his furious moode For sure if it be vnlawful for priuate men to assemble and in this estate to proceede to the election ordination of Ministers then by the same lawe was it vnlawful for them so to doe Then are all these Bishops Ministers priuate men vsurpers no more true Ministers then such a one as the mutinous prentices should make Maior were a true Maior Yea let me goe furder if the Church consisting of priuate men may not in this estate erect and ordaine Christes true ministrie amongst them then is there no true ministri vpon earth neither euer can be vntil God raise vp new Apostles and Euangelistes and buildeth a new Church vpon a new foundation which shalbe when vve haue a newe Christ. And then Mr. G. shal haue his dreame For he saith that vvhen God vvill haue his vvorke donne he vvill raise vp extraordinarie workemen thervnto But where read Mr. G. this positiō if not amongst the Anabaptistes Sure he neuer founde it in the new Testament vvhere vve haue the minde of Christ a perfect foundation an accompleat ministrie vntil Christes comming So that we neede not to say in our heartes who shall ascend vp to heauen for vs or descend from heauen vnto vs or goe ouer the sea for vs to bring or teach vs the Commandement of our God when the worde is so neare vs euen in our mouthes and in our heartes for to doe yt Therfore when Mr. G. shall make his proofe of this assertion And shew his warrant and promise that God will now raise vp to his Church extraordinarie worckmen and that til then no priuate men ought to proceede to the choice and ordination of Ministers but to tarye and expect this promise of the Lorde Then surelie we will acknowledge him no false Prophet no Anabaptisticall dreamer and that we haue presumed ouer far vpon the Lordes authoritie and commandement giuen to his Church vnto the worldes end to chuse and ordaine his ministerie and to practize amongst them whatsoeuer he hath commanded But nowe because this were to bring Christ from aboue and againe from the deade because also we haue Gods direct commandement to goe out of the false Church being come out to assemble and ioyne together and being so ioyned to proceede to the erection of his ministrie and practize of his ordinances and haue his aucthoritie promise of blessing to these proceedings because we haue the practize of Christes Apostles in planting the primatiue Churches and now latelie th'examples of such as endeuored to build this Church they liue in we dare not by any vayne hope or threates of this false Prophet be drawen to neglect so great saluation to continue either in apostasie or disorder and to transgresse or neglect the Lordes commaundement THe next obiection against vs is drawen from an especiall obseruation in our first Article where we confessed the vniversal Church and kingdome of CHRIST to extend to all such as by true faith apprehend and confesse CHRIST IESVS howsoeuer they be skattered and wheresoeuer dispersed vpon the face of the whole earth Hence Mr. GIFF. concludeth that seing the faithfull may be in state of grace and haue CHRIST their Kinge though they liue not vnder that gouernment order that CHRIST hath established in and to his Church therfore it is not necessarie for priuate men to set yt vp Sure this is a weake argument and not worth half the noting obseruation he hath made of yt we must for all this denie yt and finde no more consequent then if he had therfore concluded that the communion of Sainctes the ministrie and ecclesiasticall gouernment of CHRIST are not to be sought of the faithfull because some faithfull may be saued that liue not in an
established church vizt such as are in captiuitie sicknes age or in such times place as they knowe not where to finde one day of the Sonne of man He might aswell conclude that because God is able doth saue some in the false Church Therfore priuate meÌ„ ought not to forsake the false Church God is able to saue some in dispertion out of the established Church Therfore priuate men ought not to seek the established Church THe last greatest matter is that we runne before the Princes commandement whose dutie it is to reforme Churches Priuate men might not so much as sweepe them much-lesse build them For this is to erect a state gouernmeÌ„t because the power of the Church is both publicke greate We haue aboue shewed that y e Church hath Gods coÌ„mandement authoritie alwaies to erect Christes ministri gouernment amongst them That the Church in this estate consisteth only of of priuate men neither are there anie true Ministers anie where to be found vpon the earth neither any extraordinarie Ministers to be looked for seing they are long since ceased Therfore the Church in this estate consisting only of priuate men ought to erect this ministerie and gouernment ells should they also cease and neuer be had againe vpon the earth and so should there neuer be any established Church ministrie Sacramentes c agayne in this world yet here must be noted by the way that Mr. G. runneth too much vpoÌ„ and wresteth too far these wordes priuate men when we speake of the Church consisting only of priuate men Now vnto his crimination the Church hauing this coÌ„mandement aucthoritie giuen of God vnto the worldes end we before shewed him that no Prince might take it away or without great wronge hinder them from the performance hereof yea that the seruantes of God ought not to be staied from doing the coÌ„mandements of God vpon anie restrainte or persecution of any mortall man whosoeuer For this we alleadged the examples and practize of the Apostles who then had bene guiltie of the same disobedience rebellion if Princes in this busines had bene to be stayed for or their restrainte had bene a sufficent let yea that persecution and the crosse of Christ were vtterly abolished if the Church and faithfull were not to proceede in their dueties vntill Princes giue leaue We shewed also that the obedience and practize of Gods will was no disobedience or preiâ—dize to the Prince That we attempted nothing beyonde our calling neither transgressed in our calling We medled not with the reformation of anie publick abuse either in the common wealth or in their Church otherwise then by prayers vnto God and godly exhortation We only according vnto Gods commandement refrained from their idolatrie and other publicke euils and assembled together in all holy and peaceable maner to worship the Lord our God and to ioyne our selues together in the faith vnto mutual duties This we shewed to be the duetie of euerie priuate man that would be saued to leaue the false Church and to seeke the true Church And being thus assembled ioyned in the faith we shewed it to be their dutie together to seeke that ministrie and gouernment which Christ hath left vnto his Church and for the Church to erect the same VNto the Apostles proceeding without the licence of Princes he maketh a double answere One in respect of the persons of the Apostles that they were furnished with a special coÌ„mission and authoritie from CHRIST himself to set vp his kingdome which commission and power the Pastors and Teachers successiuely receiued deliuered ouer to others so that priuate men may not haue this power The other in respect of those Princes in the Apostles tyme which were all heathen and therfore it had bene bootlesse to sue to them But where there is a christian Prince that holdeth the fundamentall poynctes of the christian faith though otherwise this christian Prince doe erre in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline euerie godly priuate man is to keepe a good conscience not breaking the vnitie and peace of the Church But not to take publicke authoritie to reforme THese instances of the persons of the Apostles and Princes as they are litle to the purpose so doe they him as litle good If the commandement of God were sufficient warrant to the Apostles to doe their worke though al the Princes of the world resisted then must the commandement of the same God be of the same effect to all other instrumentes whom it pleaseth the Lorde to vse in their callings to his seruice also though all the Princes in the world should withstand and forbid the same For neither dignitie of the persons that are vsed make the commandement of God of more authoritie or necessitie to be donne neither yet the greatnes or the goodnes of the persons that withstand this commandement of God make yt of lesse authoritie or necessitie Onlie let the seruantes of God be sure to haue the commaundement and calling of their God for that they doe and then they neede not feare the Powers that are placed of of God for the praise and not for the punishment of the good Our question then is not whether priuate men may doe that which is not their dutie to which they haue no commanndement as this accuser surmizeth to bring vs into danger and hatred But whether they may not doe that which God commanndeth them within the limites of their caling As to forâ—ake idolatrie and the false Church to seke the true worship of God in the true Church though all the Princes of the world whether belieuers or infidels should forbid the same And this we affirme to be the duetie of euerie perticular person whosoeuer forbid We say not now that priuate men may reforme the false Church abolish publick idolatrie or depose a false ministrie that the Kinge setteth vpp This were to breake the boundess of their calling to intrude vpon the Princes office and great cause had they then to feare for he beareth not the sworde in vayne Againe our question is not whether it is the office and dutie of Princes to see abuses reformed both in the Church and common Wealth which we thinck no man to be so ignorant or barbarous to denie except the Anabaptistes But vvhether the Church ought not now amongst themselues freely to practize CHRISTS Testament either in erecting his officers and ordinances or in reforming or correcting anie fault or abuse that ariseth amongst them vvithout staying for the Princes licence yea though the Prince should vpon the paynes of death forbid This we affirme to be the dutie of euerie perticular Congregation CHRIST hauing therfore giuen vnto each and all of them his sacred power and aucthoritie to binde and to loose in earth and to doe all thinges whatsoeuer he hath commaunded them vvith promise to be with them vnto the end of the world He hath giuen them the
saith it is Christs ordinance that an holie assemblie should iudge in such cases Howe will this agree with the office of your Arch-Bishop Further as a maÌ„ ignorant in the scriptures he would haue the people excluded in their Synods The holye Ghost setteth before vs another order Acts. 15. And for a christian trial of our cause wee haue euerie way sought it by supplication and all maner of wayes but could neuer obteine it But your whole broode haue not only refused it and shewed al exquisit tyrannie vpon our bodies so farr as they had powre by close emprisonment rending vs from our trades and families and al ordinary meanes of liuehood but set their Priestes eueriwhere to crye out in their pulpits gyuing out lyes and sclanders openly secretly in Articles in printed Bookes in priuate complaints and false suggestions wherin M r. Giffard hath not bene behinde yet neuer vouchsafed vs free conference nor haue or can conuince vs of crime or error maintayned by vs. In whom then is this furor dolus tumultus now found but in these godlesse Priestes that caÌ„not abide the light because their workes are euill HE procedeth now to shew what tryalls were granted the Donatists before the Emperour and by his apointment Wherein there wil be found litle consimilitude betwene our estate and theirs for these AntichristaÌ„ Bishops vsurpe such powre as the magistrate may not cal their actions into question shutting vp the benefit of the common lawe against vs suffring no Iurie to passe vpon those they murther in pryson nor no bayle for anie they commyt I meruâ—l you could set forth these â—rialls alowed the Donatistes without blushiÌ„ng and make such hauock amongst Gods children now without anie trial granted them Further it is rehersed how these men the Numidian Bishopps and their companie condemned all Churches through the worlde as wrapped together in the guyltines of those Churches of Africa al polluted al vncleane al fallen from the Couenant of God through such as had committed sacriledge and were not separated They said there was no true ministerie no true Church no true sacramentes To which wee answere that wee are not to pleade the Donatistes cause but setting their persons and causes aside I trust it will be granted me that the defâ—ctioÌ„ Apostasie vnder Antichrist was generall in which defection you wil stil remaine in obstinate confusioÌ„ not only retayning that ministerie worship lawes offices c but reiecting Christs prescribed and for euer commanded in his Testament which your ministerie lawes worship gouernmeÌ„t we are able to prone false Antichristian So that there is no consimilitude in the Donatistes separation and ours in this poinct their matter being about sinnes coÌ„mitted in the Church where there was lawful office worship gouernment as they did not denie and our cause being about the not hauing of a Church gathered vnto CHRIST from the Apostasie from all them that remaine vnder that Apostatical ministerie gouernment and worship and in that confusion we haue warrant to separate Reuel 18. 3. 4. Now to the poinct These Numidian Bishops taught that so manie as would saue their soules must separate themselues M r. GIFFARD wil graunt I doubt not that if there were no true Church true ministerie nor no true sacramentes it was tyme to come out from amongst them and haue no coÌ„munion with the tables of Diuells as the Apostle reasoneth 1 Corint 10. If the Donatistes separated from the true Church we do not so but we separate according to Gods coÌ„mandement from the false Church false ministerie worship and Sacramentes Proue your Church therfore a true Church or our separation is iust and holy and the only way to saluation In the meane tyme let the Papist reason thus with you You separate from our Church therfore you are Schismaticks Donatistes Heretickes If M r. GIFFARD say no we hold you the true Church to haue the seales of the Couenant to hold many doctrines of faith to be the Temple of God then we may lawfully hold you still Daughters of that damnable harlot murderesse of the Saintes so often accursed in whose cupp of fornication you are druâ—ken If he say separation from the false Church is a commandement of God and that they haue made a kinde of separation then all are not Donatistes that make a separation but the cause must be considered from whome for which in what maner and to what we separate or ioyne Where he alledgeth that Augustine thought it an vnequall thing to condemne as they did at the first all the world for one mans sinne namely for the sinne of this Caecilianus and they therevpon tooke on hand to affirme that as the Church of Carthage and the Churches elswhere in Africa were fallen from God by the pollution of the sacriledge of Caecilianus and others so all other Churches in the world were destroyed by the like sacriledges committed in the dayes of persecution There is litle consimilitude betwene the Donaâ—â—stes and vs therein For we separated not at the first for one mans sinne neither do since condemne the Churches we know not but for the whole ministerie of CHRISTS Testament worship lawes and ordinances which you reiect deface and peruert standing subiect vnto administring in the Apostaticall orders and offices of Antichrist do wee separate But to answere your perticulars as you haue filled the printe with rayling lying and vnfruiâ—tfull and impertinent matters were but to trouble the Reader and maintaine strife You bring a storie of their comparison betwene Caecilianus Iudas-Iscariot whether should be greater sinner a repetition of Caluines Institutions histories out of Augustine Tertuâ—lan c which your labour as yttendeth but to a shadowe of defence of your rayling so I will leaue their writings and you to the iudgment seate of God where euerie one must answere for himself and breiflie proceed to your perticular accusations falsly fathered vpon vs most of them THus we see saith he that the Donatistes departed disorderly out of the Church not condemning yt for anie poincte of doctrine for therein they did not disagree Herein then we cannot be compared till you haue prooued your parish assemblies the true Church and we holde that you haue poysoned all the fountaines of sincere doctrine and peruert the whole Testament and turne away the practize thereof by your damnable false expositions yea that you teach not one poincte sincerely Againe where you say afterward that you will affirme the worship in the Churches from which the Donatistes separated as corrupt as yours and here say they agreed in all poinctes of doctrine we wonder what your make your worship to be some things indifferent as reading for prayer mens writings for scriptures homilies for interpretation but no doctrine conteined in your worship And where you affirme that the Donatistes cryed out all was polluted because such as reuolted from the faith in time of persecution returned and were againe recoâ—â—ed into the Church you know we hold
no such doctrine but all that God gyâ—eth grace to returne by repentance ought to be receiued though no Apostate â—uer to beare office in the Church yet such we take to be wholly purged in the blood of CHRIST by repentance which your parish assemblies neuer did But this setting their persons aside we take to be an vndoubted truth of God that where no separation is made from Idolatrous prophane Atheistes Heretickes tyrannicall persecutors nor no couenant entred by the faithfull vnto the obedience and orderly practize of CHRISTES ordinances but a generall commixture with the world in sacriledge in false worship vnder a false ministerie such assemblies are no true Churches orderly gathered or established Now looke saith he vpon the Donatistes of England Antichrist hath bene exalted according to the prophesie of Paule he hath sat in the Temple of God c. This man by his whole former discourse present Argument it semeth herein chiefly compareth vs to the Donatistes that as they made all their quarrell for Caecilianus his vnmeetnes for his office so we make our quarrell for that Antichrist reigned or doth reigne as hâ— after expoundeth it in the Church of God wherein he affirmeth that they which submitted or stand still in subiection vnto his decrees iurisdictioÌ„ ordinances ministerie are yet notwithstanding the true apparant Church of God First we answere that we take not the word Antichrist to be vnderstood of one mans peâ—son but of all the falsly called Fathers of the Sea of ROME and more generally of all that exalt themselues aboue the ordinances of CHRIST and his Church establishing their owne deuises in place thereof or giue life vnto the image of the Beast for if the same markes of pride blasphemie and tyrannie erection of a strange ministerie lifting vp themselues aboue CHRISTS Testament ordinances and worship be sound emongst your spirituall Lords in England we see not but Antichrist spoken of by Paul may be also found amongst you Now if M r. GIFFARD had considered Caecilianus his estate who at the hardest was but vncapable of that lawfull office and to that lawfull administration as it was on both sides supposed and concerning the outward order or maner lawfully ordeyned there can be no comparison betwene him and Antichrist And for Antichristes sitting in the Temple of God M r. GIFFARD must know that manie times the Church is called the Church not because yt remayneth still vnder the outward couenant but because yt sometimes did so yea and at the first creeping vp of that man of sinne while the iniquitie wrought in a mysterie yt was the Church out of which he sprang and in which he sometimes sat The holy Ghost giueth vs then hereby to vnderstand that this Antichrist who should change the holy ordinances should be an Apostata he should be neither Turke nor Pagan but the bottomlesse pit should be opened by him in more subtile and strange delusions out of which smoke all your ministerie is proceeded But when he had changed the ordinances destroyed euery greene thing caused all high and low rich and poore to receiue his marke in their hande or foreheade and suffred none to buye and sell which would not fall downe and worship him the sunne now couered with sackcloth the Moone turned into blood the starrs fallen from heauen the true worshippers murthered if any one stood vp Gods curses threatned to all that worshipped the Beast or his image or receiued his marke in their hand or foreheade we hope this man will not say yt was now the apparant Church of God lest he coÌ„demne not only the scriptures but al whome God commanded to come out of her calling her the mother of fornications the harlot that sitteth vpon many waters hold of all vncleane spirits cage of all vncleane and hatefull birdes confused Babell c. So that if M r. GIFFARD had anie salt of grace he would better pervse the booke of Reuelations which with all the prophesies of the Prophets of CHRIST himself and of his Apostles make manifest this generall Apostasie and defection vnder Antichrist and not now tell vs a tale of Caecilianus Doth he not see in the whole Booke the false Church true lyuely described the one worshipping the Beast the other following the Lambe the one persecuted the other persecuting in most bloody murder of the Sainctes Well saith he but Antichrist is disclosed by the glorious light of the Gospel his damnable doctrine cursed idolâ—trie and vsurped tyrannie are cast forth of this land the true doctrine of faith is published c. First we must here demaunde whether these assemblies were then the true Church when they were ledd by those damnable doctrines and lyued in that cursed idolatrie bowing downe to the Beast and persecuting the Sainctes Secondly as we are not vnthankfull for the abandoning of the POPES person supremacie with much of his damnable wares we demaund of you what you thinke of those persons which set opeÌ„ his shoppes againe keepe his Courtes and exercise like vsurped power and tyrannie that was before But to answere directly Antichrist is not discouered in your assemblies his daÌ„nable doctrines cursed idolatries vsurped tyrannie are not cast forth the doctrine of faith is not sincerely published Againe what is al this to the prouing of a true Church a lawfull ministerie true worship and holy gouernment of CHRIST Your parish assemblies were receiued from the Popes hand without anie conuersion by repentance or orderly gathering by doctrine into any communion the Popes ministerie set ouer them the worship though a litle changed out of latine into english some of theirs left out but al y t remayneth either takeÌ„ froÌ„ his Portesse or mens deuises these assemblies still gouerned by those Courtes Officers and Canons that before What place hath now Christes Testament amongst you how is Antichrist discouered or his damnable wares cast forth Is it not made subiect to these Antichristian ordinances ministerie worship gouernment It is not limited stinted and aportioned no further to be opened then to vphold these execrable orders idolatries sacrileges yea is not only the bare name therof vsed as a stale and doctrine therof peruerted to the deceiuing of the people in this estate Moses law was read euerie Sabboth day in their Synagogs when they crucified CHRIST But you should haue proued you had such assemblies such a ministeri such a worship such a gouernmeÌ„t as the Gospel prescribeth Being then the same assemblies contynuing in false worship vnder the same ministerie gouernment al the Atheistes Papistes Hereticks Antichristian officers c in one coÌ„mixture that the POPE left we may wel affirme you to remaine stil the marcked seruantes of Antichrist not speaking here how many Antichristes are here exalted leauing the damnable doctrines cursed idolatrie false preaching of the Gospell to our lardger discourse in due place But now M r. GIFFARD beholding these things that they haue made no separation nor draweÌ„ the people vnto the ordinances
giuing testimonie and blessing to his ovvne word The truth wherof shall shine forth in our simplicitie the povver therof be made manifest in our weakenes to the discouerie reformation of these publique enormities in the false worship open sacrilege antichristian ministerie heinous disorder exercised and soffred in this land and to the discipation of all the delusions vaine promises and persvvasions of these false Prophetts whervvith they haue a long time for their ovvne fleshlie pompe and filthie lucre seduced the whole land dravven them into and held them in the wrath heauie iudgments of God That so the mightie hand of God working in the heart of our Souereigne Prince Nobles especiallie through your Honors faithfull counsell and furtherance and also in the heartes of all the Commons when the truth of these things shall be shevved vnto them a general and sincere conuersion to the Lord may be made euen from all things that novv are or hereafter shall be found contrarie to his holie will whither in the publique estate of all or in the priuate estate of anie For sure as euerie perticular person goeth forvvard from faith to faith as knovvledge is increaced euerie day teaching other vnto eternal life So in the publique estate of the Church no change that is made according vnto the truth as the publique error is espied ought to be held strange or dangerous But most heauenlie is that harmonie where all the members kint together in the same faith both in general and perticular with one accord goe forward in their callings and duties still amending what is found amisse and daylie indeuouring to doo better Then should there not be found anie such vnchristian contention abought the truth pleading and spurning against the truth or persecution for the truth Then should the Lords dreadful iudgments which novv hang ouer the whole land for these sinnes be auoided and his blessings in stead therof be multiplied But sure in the meane time vntil these sinnes be remoued out of Gods sight and redressed there is no peace to be looked for or asked of the Lord there is no pleading with or against him hovvsoeuer the false Prophet may goe abought to heale the hurte of this people as a light euill saijng peace peace when there is no peace and to repaire the breaches that are as the sea with vntempered stuffe and vaine visions tending vnto abdication Wherfore to the torning avvay of so great euills and the procuring of so great and inestimable benefites to our Souereign Queene and Contrie as we haue not with-holden our vtmost indeuours to the discouerie of the publique enormities sinnes of these times in all truth and freedome being readie yet furder to witnesse and approue the same if such neade be to the face of our greatest aduersaries and gainsayers by the euidence of Gods word So novv it remaineth that we instantly beseach your Honor euen in the name of God before whome we shall all of vs shortly appeare to our accompt iudgment by whome this chardge is layed vpon you the cause being novv brought and by both sides asvvell our aduersaries as vs layed open before your Honor that you would novv be a meanes to her right excellent Maiestie that these weightie and dangerous matters may be no longer wrapped vp or put off in securitie and silence lest these our soffrings and testimonies rise in iudgment with this generation but may rather be furder inquired and discussed and order and redresse taken according to the will of God Which shall no doubt torne to the high glorie most acceptable seruice of God and of your Prince to the vnspeakable benefite of this whole land and to the happie discharge of your dutie and conscience to your eternall praise in this life and in the life to come Your Lordships most humble addict in the Lord. HENRIE BARROVVE IOHN GRENVVOOD for the testimonie of the gospel in close prison Wisdome to the Reader from the Father of lightes to disceâ—ne of these times and to iudge of themselues what is right SEing the scripture speaketh euidently of the generall defection apostasie vnder Antichrist and of the abhominable desolation hauock y t he should make in these dangerous latter times where y e sunne should be made blacke as a sack-cloth of haire the Moone be made as blood the Starres cast to the earth the Heauen departe away as a booke wrapped vp euery mouÌ„taine Isle be moued out of their place And all these things are most perticularly most liuely described in the booke of the Reuelation Of Antichristes beginning increace exaltation abolishing How a great part of the trees all greene grasse should be blasted a great parte of the sea become blood and of the creatures that lyued therin dye and a greate parte of the shippes therof be destroied the third parte of the riuers of the fountaines of waters be torned into worm wood and manie men die of the bitternes therof How that falleÌ„ apostatat Starre should open the bottomles pitte the sunne airâ— be darkened with the smoke therof the earth pestered with the swarme of poisoned stinging Scorpions crowned armed Locustes that came out of the smoke of the pitte and of those innumerable warriours vpoÌ„ those strange horses that destroied such multitudes of men How the Beast should get vnto him manie heades mo hornes and vpoÌ„ his hornes Crownes how he should be inthronised receiue the DragoÌ„ his large power high CoÌ„mission how he should warre with the Sainctes and open his mouth into blasphemie against God how he should erect his Image and gyue his marke how he should kill as manie as will not worship his image and suffer none to buye or sell but such as receiue his marcke How that greate harlot that sate vpoÌ„ manie waters so gorgiously araied adorned the mother of all the whoredomes abhominatioÌ„s of the earth with that goulden cuppe full of abhominations filthines of her fornication in her hand wherwith she made dronckeÌ„ all the inhabitantes of the earth should sit vpon the Beast and be made dronckeÌ„ with the blood of the Sainctes and Martyres of IESVS And yet furder How the vials of Gods wrathfull iudgments should by his faithfull messengers witnesses be powred forth vpon the earth vpon the sea vpon the riuers and fountaines of waters vpon the Sunne vpon the throne of the Beast vpon the greate riuer Euphrates and into the aire with the peculiar fearfull plagues denounsed to be executed herevpon As also how the greate Babilon should be discouered forsaken pleaded against condempned consumed fire cast vpon her all her wares the greate milstone vpon her al her childreÌ„ inhabitantes to presse her downe to hell To conclude How Christ himself his holye armie mounted vpon the white horse of his word should warre against the Beast and against the Kinges
nations that were gathered togither by the false Prophet into battell against Christ his armie how he should smite the heatheÌ„ with the sharpe sword that issueth out of his mouth rule them with a rod of yron and tread theÌ„ in the wine-presse of his fierce wrath how he should giue the flesh of all this people with their Kinges Capitanes and mightie men as a praye to the fowles the vncleane spirites and how he should take the Beast and with him the false Prophet that wrought signes before him wherein he deceiued them that receiued the Beastes marck and worshipped his Image and cast these both aliue into that lake of fire burning in brimstone Who now if not such to whome the scriptures are hidden and this Booke sealed could in this generall falling away from the gospel this generall departure of the true established Churches out of the inhabited this vniuersall corruption confusion of all estates degrees persons callings actions both in the Church commune welth in this estate in this defection seeke for or pleade for a true visible established Church the true ministerie of the gospel true worship ministration sacraments gouernment order Or who that were not droncke and had all their senses bound intoxicate with the whores cuppe could affirme this coÌ„fuse Babel these cages of vncleane birdes these prisons of foule hatefull spirits to be the Spouse of Christ the coÌ„gregatioÌ„s of the Sainctes the true established and rightly ordered Churches of Christ Is it likely that these men haue as yet read the whores misterie written in her forehead or as yet know what belongeth to the true established Church worship administration sacraments ordinances gouernment of Christ though they haue in his Testament which is dayly read amongest them an exact absolute parterne of al these things before their eies And haue not in their Churches anie one thing in their practise and proceedings not one pinne naile or hooke according to the true patterne Yea though they heare the trompets of the Lord blowen against them though they see the viallz of the Lords wrath powred vpon them and all their doings yet stop they their eares wincke with their eies lest they should see with their eies and heare with theire eares and vnderstand with their heartes and be conuerted healed And therfore are so farr from finding place to repentance that they opeÌ„ their mouthes into blasphemie and railings especially these men that haue the marcke of the Beaste vpon whome that euill malignant sore is fallen as you dayly see and heare in their bookes pulpets And how well these gouernours mariners merchantmen and all that trafique on this sea can endure the borning of these their pleasant gainefull wares how they waile howle and crye out when this heauenly fire is cast out into their shippes Let the behauiour of these Bishopps their hierarchie and Priestes towards the seruants of God that speak against their AntichristiaÌ„ proceadings shew and how they bestir them to quench the burning of the harlot smiting rending Christs poore witnesses with tongue tooth and naile casting out of their mouthes a flood of raylings reproches sclanders criminations against theÌ„ of poysoned bitters waters corrupt doctrines blasphemous opinions vnsufferable peruerting abusing the scriptures to hide tollerat or defend the antichristian forgeries abhominations disorder enormities of their Church ministrie that are discouered condempned by the word of God in the mouthes of vs his simple witnesses Of this sort amongst manie other such like are two bookes notoriously infamous lately published by one George Giffard a Priest of their orders against certeine christians whome he calleth Brownists Donatiste In the one of these Bookes he laboureth to defend cleare the parish assemblies of the Church of England of such heinous crimes as the said christians obiect against them and forsake them for witnessing suffring in bandes persecution against the same vnder the handes of those popish Prelats Romish Priestes In the other Booke he indeuoreth to recouer the blame he iustly suffred in the first for reproching sclandering blaspheming accusing these faithfull and innocent christians applijng himself to proue them Donatists by comparing together them from poinct to poinct Both which Bookes are here answered and now at length published to the pervsing iudgment of al men Where they shal see how well he hath delyuered and acquitted their Church in the first As also how iustly he hath proued his charges accusations and blasphemies in the first second The â—ower principall transgressions wherwith we charge and for which we forsake these parish assemblies Namely the prophanenes wickednes confusion of the people which are here receiued reteined nourished as members The vnlawfullnes of their whole ministrie which is imposed vpon them reteined mainteined by them The superstition idolatrie of their publique worship in that deuised Leitourgie which is imposed vpon them And the forgerie of their antichristian ecclesiasticall gouernment to which al their Churches stand subiect are such and so apparant as not only proue these parish assemblies not to be true established Churches of Christ But if it were admitted which can neuer be proued that they somtimes had bene true established Churches yet these transgressions obstinatly stood in and defended are sufficient causes of our seperation from them in this degenerate estate For where such prophane coÌ„fuse multitâ—des without anie exception seperatioÌ„ or choice were all of them immediatly from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compelled to be members of this Church in some Parish or other where they inhabited without anie due calling to the faith by the preaching of the gospel going before or orderly ioyning togither in the faith there being no voluntarie or perticular confession of their owne faith and duties made or required of anie and last of all no holy walking in the faith found amongst them Who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rules of Christs Testament Or who can say that this people in this estate are the communion of Sainctes Or who without sacrilege in this estate can administer the holy things of God vnto or in the same communicate with this people Likewise where these parishes haue a false antichristian ministerie imposed vpoÌ„ them who can say that they are the true established Churches of Christ to the building ministerie wherof Christ hath ordeined instituted and prescribed a certaine ministrie vnto the worldes end Or who without sacrilege may ioyne vnto or communicate with a false antichristian ministrie Christ also hath gyuen vnto his Church perpetuall and alsufficient rules in his holy word for the whole administratioÌ„ gouernmeÌ„t of his established churches to which they are bound wherby they ought to buyld proceede and walke Those Churches then that receiue an other Leitourgie an other foundation other rules for their
name and honor therwith for the reformation wherof this hipocrit somtimes stood a zealous sutor to the ParliameÌ„t Yea he now maketh his Prince an opposite aduersarie vnto Christ one that will not be admonished or be obedient to Gods word If these abuses he then complained of were iust or tollerable how could he sue to haue them abolished and that by a positiue lawe If they be contrarie to the word of God how then can he now obey them or blame vs for refusing to obey them The Lord deliuer our Souereign Queâ—ne from such Sycophants such impostors as these false Prophers are that are faithful neither to God nor her but most dangerouslie seduce highly abuse her gracious disposition which hath euer bene inclinable to anie truth of God that hath bene sincerely shewed vnto her It is no shame neither anie new thing but a most high honor and praise for godly Princes to redresse things that are amisse when they are shewed by Gods word Neither it is anie iniurie to the Prince wheÌ„ the faithful witnesse against and refreigne anie thing that is contrarie to Gods word Or dishonor to the Prince to amend the same how long soeuer the abuse hath continued as this Accuser and Flatterer suggesteth The rest of whose criminations accusations against vs our indeuours and proceadings I deferr to answere vntill we come to the Articles Yet now that the groundworke and true causes of all his bitter invectiues and grieuous charges against vs may appeare to all men we haue here set downe in print the originall and whole former passage betwixt vs and him concerning these poinctes in coÌ„trouersie That the Reader may the better discerne and iudge of these our present writings And also see what cause ther was giuen him thus to accuse reproch and blaspheme vs as heretickes Schismatickes disobedient and iniurious to Princes Anabapâ—ists Donâ—â—ists Brownists with infinite vile and reprochfull obiectiues wherwith his treasurie is stored If in those writings appeare no such matter theÌ„ we protest that to our knowledg we neuer gaue him cause thus to accuse and blaspheme vs he being a man altogether vnknoweÌ„ by person vnto vs and neuer so much as seene spoken vnto or medled with by vs the writers of these things otherwise then by those writings here insuing whervnto also we were prouoked by himself who would needs take vpon him this quarrell Which how christianly and soberly he hath handled and performed let him of his owne mouth be iudged euen by euerie sentence of his Bookes which are referced with most grieuous and inaudible raylings not so much as speaking of vs in anie place therof without some hard cruell and dispightfull words and bitter reuilings and cursings All which in our innocencie as the sparow and swallow by flying we shal escape And hauing therby discouered his spirit easely passe ouer without regarding or answering the same Turning also from his person as much as may be as from a most vnreasonable and vnhonest man with whome we would be loath to haue furder to doo Fixing our eies wholye vpon the matter set before vs Indeuoring to make proofe and euident demonstration of these charges for which we forsake their assemblies and haue all this time suffred vnder their tyrannous handes As also to cleare our profession and proceadings herein of such calumniations and reproches as this our malignant aduersarie defameth them with And this in all breuitie truth and good conscience as so variable and infinite a matter wil permit Wherin if in anie poinct we deale obsâ—urely insufficiently for as the man is such is his strength we desire that the truth may not suffer preiudice therby But that the learned and wise Reader wil rather confirme repaire our weake or loose reasons yea by our insufficiencie be prouoked euen in zeale loue of the truth to handle it more exactly Wherin we shall gladly gyue place and much reioyce But if in anie thing we be found to depart from the truth we desire to be louingly reduced yet condingly reproued and censured vowing through Gods grace neuer to resist anie truth that shal at any time be shewed vs neither to resfuse to be reformed The lesse faltes as the errors in the writing or print we shall desire the Reader charitably to construe correct And if ther be found or rather abound anie imperfect or redundant sentences let those be imputed chiefly to the want of better skill in the writers and partly to their decayed memories to the inconveniencie of the place the continual tossings turmoiles searches riflings and no peace or meanes giuen vs either to write or reuise that we had written To conclude we beseach and admonish the Reader not to be withdrawen from the truth by anie fore-conceived opinion either of our tenuitie of giftes and base estate or of the excellencie and multitude of our aduersaries for that were dangerous to themselues But rather diligently to ponder their owne wayes the issues therof and where they finde themselues to erre speedely to retorne to the truth without cunctation or excuse that so they may finde peace and assurance to their owne soules Which grace we euen wish to our greatest enimies and shall not cease to pray that God may thus blesse our indeuoures A BRIEF SVMME OF the causes of our seperation and of our purposes in practise withstood by G. G. defended by H. B. as followeth WE seeke aboue all thinges the peace and protection of the most high and the kingdome of CHRIST IESVS our Lord. 2 WE seeke and fully purpose to worship God aright according as he hath commaded in his most holy word 3 WE seeke the fellowship of his faithfull obedient seruants and together with them to enter Couenant with the Lord and by the direction of his holy Spirit to proceed to a godly free and right choise of Ministers and other Officers by him ordeyned to the seruice of his Church 4 WE seeke to establish and obey the ordinances lawes of our Sauiour Christ left by his last will Testament to the gouerning guyding of his Church without altering changing innouating wresting or leauing out anie of them that the Lord shall gyue vs sight of 5 WE purpose by the assistance of the holy Ghost in this faith order to leade our lyues and for this faith order to leaue our lyues if such be the good will of our heauenly Father to whom be honor glorye Amen 6 AND now that our forsaking vtter abandoning of these disordered assemblies as they generally stand in England may not seeme strange nor offensiue to anie man that will iudge or be iudged by the word of God we alledge affirme them heinously guiltie in these 4 principall Transgressions 1 THEY worship the true God after a false maner their worship being made of the invention of man euen of that man of sinne erronious imposed vpon them 2 FOR that the prophane vngodly
THIS Article you first alowe and after restreyne to we wot not what limits of calling But if you grant it the dutie of euerie true Christian to seek to establish obey the ordinances lawes of Christ left in his Testament to the gouerning of his Church without altering c it is as much as we indeuour or purpose Otherwise we allowe not that which the law of God condempneth either intrusion without lawfull calling either transgression in calling or presumption aboue calling Our purpose is not to medle with the reformation of the state otherwise then by our prayers vnto God and refreining from al things that are coÌ„trarie to Gods lawe Neither indeuour we to reforme your Babilonish deformities or to repaire the ruines of Hierico or dawbe the wall of Aâ—tichrist with you This trash we know to be deuote to execratioÌ„ by the Lords owne irreuocable sentence and therfore we leaue the reformation of them to the Lords visitation in iudgment holding it our dutie without al delay to obey the voice of God which calleth vs out of all places where he is not truly worshipped according to his word where his lawes are wilfully broken Antichrists lawes obeyed And this to be the commandement of God in the law by his Prophets Christ himself and his Apostles is euerie where in the scripture manifest without exception of person or restreint of calling euen vnto euerie one that wilbe saued In the rest whatsoeuer you surmise of vs we arrogat no swelling titles we are as we professe to be simple hearted Christians which seek to worship and obey Christ as our only King Priest and Prophet And to our Prince we are humble obedieÌ„t subiects in all things which are not repugnant to Gods lawes IF a man hath the truth it is good to stand vnto yt to the death rather then denie yt as our Church in the same estate it is in now yeilded many blessed coÌ„stant Martirs But if a man hath not the truth it is a great obstinacie to die for yt as sondrie Anabaptists and other hereticks haue shewed Euerie true Christian will rather die then denie the discipline which Christ hath left But you must shew that God commandeth priuat men to set yt vp THE word of God your owne mouth hauing approued our desires in these Articles we cannot be moued with Satans olde tentation to doubt of the Lords vndoubted truth or call his commandements into question with if it be true c. Neither can we be remoued by that olde popish reason which you bring of certeine blessed Martires that died in this estate your Church is now in This is not to approue the estate of your Church by Christs Testament Which vntill you doo though all the men in the world should die both in yt for yt yet could they not iustifie that God condempneth But in deed the holy Martirs you speak of neither died in yt nor for yt Not in yt being by Gods great mercy depriued and discharged by their enimies Not for yt but for the truth of CHRIST they most constantly gaue their lyues Neither can it be shewed where euer they resisted the truth being shewed them or denied to heare yt at y e most simple maÌ„s mouth or euer yeilded to anie corruption or yoake that God gaue them sight of contrarie to their owne coÌ„sciences as you doo in these dayes Therfore so far are they from iustifiâ—ng you in this your general apostasie as that they being found faithfull in that litle in the twilight shall rise in iudgmeÌ„t with this generation in this great light with al the giftes they boast of Euerie true Christian you say will die rather then denie the discipline that Christ hath left With what conscience then can you esteeme emong the wicked Anabaptists and condempned dampned hereticks that suffer in their obstinacie vs that cast off the yoak of Antichrist seek suffer for the true worship holy gouernmeÌ„t of Christ Or how can you flatter your selues in the fearful estate you stand in drawing so euen by long custome in Antichrists yoake not only in deed and practise denijng the gouernment of CHRIST but to your vtmost indeuour by contumelious reproches vniust sclanders and open persecution seek to resist and suppresse yt But we must shew that God commandeth priuat men to set yt vp First God commandeth in his law euerie one to seek the place where he putteth his name CHRIST in the Gospel to seek the kingdome of God to take his yoake vpoÌ„ them c. Againe CHRIST hath left but one forme of gouernment in his last Will and Testament vnto his Church which he hath fealed with his blood and therfore not left yt arbitrable at y e pleasures of Princes or pollicies of tymes to be done or vndon but made yt by a double right inuiolable both by his word and his Testament so that the Church of God caÌ„ neither be gouerned by anie other lawes or gouernment neither ought yt to be without this for God holdeth them all in the estate of enimies which haue not his Sonne to reigne ouer them Now then the faithfull are coÌ„manded to gather togither in CHRIST his name with promise of direction protection and with authoritie not only to establish his lawes ordinances emongst them but faithfully to gouerne his Church therby For the kingdome of God consisteth not in word but in power Now this assemblie of the faithfull before they be planted established in this order consisteth hitherto but of perticular priuat persons none as yet being called to office or function Therfore we may well conclude that God coÌ„mandeth his faithfull seruants being as yet priuat meÌ„ togither to build his church according to the true patterne of Christs Testament without altering changing innouating c. And for this we haue the example of the primatiue Churches for our patterns and warrant which sued not to Courtes Parliaments nor wayted vpon Princes pleasures when the stones were in a redines but presently hauing receiued y e faith of Christ receiued likewise the ordinances of Christ and continued in the same Againe if they should tarie Princes leisuers where were the persecution you speake of Princes neuer punish them that obey their hestes And thus because you caÌ„not endure the fierie triall of persecution you vtterly by your perfidous tolleration abrogate at once the crosse of Christ. And that you might enioy this worldly peace fleshly pleasure for a season you care not to make Christ attend vpon Princes and to be subiect to their lawes and gouernment But alas it were fitter with a loude voice to call you out of Babilon theÌ„ thus to sing you hebrue songes in Babilon THIS Article mentioneth 4 principall Transgressions wherin the assemblies in England are iudged and affirmed to be heinouslie faultie and wilfully obstinate Elias did see outward idolatrie practised and did see none that did mislike and
willinglie gladlie accept of it and wil refuse no indifferent godlie conference which we yet this time expected and to that end wrote at certeine of your chief Ministers requests these Articles which you haue takeÌ„ vpoÌ„ you to answere In the rest though you haue most rashlie most vnchariblie reproched condempned vs alredie contrarie to all truth order or equitie euen for telling you the truth Yet if hereafter you can beware of rash iudgment we shall reioice Likewise if you can escape Gods iudgments for these your heinous transgressions or make anie better plea for them then as yet we haue heard or can perceiue we shall not be sorie but much glad if you would preuent the wrath that hangeth ouer your heads for them by vnfeigned repentance spedie amendement THE 4 fault is in the subiectioÌ„ to Antichristian gouernment Let it be admitted that ther is some yoake of Antichristian gouernment vnder which the poore Church doth grone as it is her lot to be oppressed with outward bondage to be made to keepe the vineyeard which is not her owne to be beaten of the watchmen to haue her vaile taken from her is she therfore no longer the Spouse of Christ BVT o how far are you from this which winke with your eies stop your eares hardeÌ„ your hearts which caÌ„not endure so much as to heare of your feareful estaâ—e which you see not no nor suffer your sores which you see to be touched but seeke rather to cloake hide them both froÌ„ God men yea to mitigate tollerate iustifie them Seeke you not here to mitigate that heauie apparant AntichristiaÌ„ yoak your Churches stand vnder wherof heretofore you haue complained in Parliaments tearming yt some yoake being now peraduenture through long custome growen lighter vnto you and more easie then Christs yoake at the least theÌ„ Christs Crosse. And yet this some yoake is yeilded but by waie of admition to be retracted at your pleasure if either aduantage arise to vs or danger grow to you therby Further you haue added to this your hipocrisie Blasphemie tearming the yoake of Antichrist the lott of the Church which she must beare by the will of God wherof in due place Now to shew this some yoake you speake of according to the indignitie therof in euerie perticular would make a volume Yea onlie to recite y e seuerall enormities therof would require a discourse which is neither our purpose at this time neither haue we skill or experience therin Only this we see and testifie that your churches staÌ„d whollie vnder the yoake of Antichrist you still reteining his Worship his Lawes his Ordinances his Officers his Courtes euen the whole gouernment that the Pope somtime committed to his faithfull seruants your Bishops which now haue takeÌ„ his power into their owne hands What a sort of stagelike Antichristian Courtes haue you As first that great Court of your high CoÌ„mission the Court ex officio in euerie Bishops house the Court of Arches the Court of Delegates the Court of Faculties Not to speak of your inferiour Courtes in the Contrie as your Commissaries and Officialls Courtes your Scenes such like What a rabble of Officers attendants are vnto theâ—e belonging Aduocates Doctors Proctors Registers Scribes Pursiuants Who can number all their AntichristiaÌ„ Cannons Lawes Rites Ceremonies Priuileges Dispensations Licences of all sortes Probations Inhibitions c which require but the whole age of a man to reade But now who can recount the perticular mischiefs enormities that ensue flow from them euen ouer the whole land Or who yeildeth not to this Antichristian iurisdiction Doo not you your whole Parishes without exception of one bowe downe to this Beast and take the marke of his subiection or the print of his lawes vpon you eueÌ„ in your foreheads in your handes What libertie haue you to refreine froÌ„ these abhominations without present persecution Or what powre haue you to execute and practize Christs lawes Call you this but some yoake The holie Ghost hath taught vs to call you his â—eruants to whome you obey So we finding you vnder the obedience of Antichrist cannot compt you the seruants of Christ vnlesse you can proue that you can serue two coÌ„trarie Maisters faithfullie at once Christ Antichrist are at perpetual war ther is no coÌ„munion betwene them So that it is impossible that the Church of Christ can carie the yoake of Antichrist without breach of wedlock euen of the Couenant as appeareth plentifullie in all the Prophets Christs loue being not bound to her anie longer then shee keepeth faith to him Againe ther is continuall war betwene the true Church and Antichrist which were at an end if she should yeild vnto him or carie his yoake as you suppose But if you had learned to put difference betwene persecution and bondage you could not in this matter haue runne into this blasphemous error as to say it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward boÌ„dage and to be made to keepe the vineyeard which is not her owne Persecution in deed is the lott of the Church here is this world as he that was borne after the flesh persecuted him that was borne after the Spirit But bondage is the badge of Antichrist the marke of the Beast wherby his souldiours are discerned froÌ„ the souldiors of Christ and the children of mount Sina from the childreÌ„ of Hierusalem which is aboue free eueÌ„ the mother of vs all for whome our Capitaine Christ hath purchased a full a perfect libertie at a deare precious price which libertie once lost ther remaineth no more ransoms to make vs free It behooueth therfore all the children of the free woman to stand fast in the libertie wherwith Christ hath made theÌ„ free and not to be intangled againe with the yoake of bondage Neither can these places of the Songe which you haue falsified peruerted anie way carie this doctâ—ine you would build vpon them or coÌ„struction you make In the first place though the Church confesseth her owne vnworthines deformitie borne in originall sinne which conceiued and brought out in her manie actuall sinnes which being kinled in her against her ofteÌ„ enticed her prouoked her to keepe their vines wherby she neglected to dresse and keepe her owne vine Yet from hence it followeth not that because she was sinfull negligent that therfore she was obstinate incortigible the contrarie appeareth in that she thus humblie modestlie confesseth her faultes Or because she kept not her owne vine as she ought to doo that therfore she kept Antichrists vine which shee ought not to doo What a bolde falsifijng of this place is this to all edge y â— the Church was made to keepe the vineyeard which is not her owne in stead of this that she kept not her owne vine If you had looked vpon the two next verses following you could neuer thus groslie
had made profession therof where they haue not the true ministrie of CHRIST but a strange antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them vvhere they haue not the gouernement of CHRIST but of Antichrist ouer them where their administration worship is not after the Gospel of CHRIST but after their popish idolatrous Leitourgie Al this may safely be defended without falling into anie such inconvenience as M r. Giffard threatneth AS to the heresie he speaketh of we doubt not nether euer thought but the best Church that consisteth of mortall men may fall ether of negligence or of ignorance into greiuous offences and dangerous errors Yea we doubt not but that some famous Churches Christians may fall into such errors as he termeth fundamentall the holding wherof should vtterly subuert the faith As in the Church of Corinth Galatia Asia there where that denied the resurrectioÌ„ That reuiued the Ceremonial â—awes That held the doctrines of Balaam and Nicholas But this we hold withal that no true Church or Christian will maintaine anie sinne or error wheÌ„ yt is euidentlie shewed coÌ„vinced vnto them by the worde of God much lesse persecute such as reproue admonished them as you doe Or if they doe whilest they remaine in that estate they are not of vs to be held the true Churches of CHRIST TO your second chardge we answeare That we haue learned to put difference betwixt error heresie All good men as is said doo may erre but no good man wil defend or persist in his error when yt is shewed and conuinced vnto him Obstinacie ioyned vnto error after yt is dulie convinced maketh heresie Furder we say That anie error being obstinatly holden and taught after it is duelie convinced reproued vnto him maketh an hereticke and heresie in that partie or in that Congregation that so holdeth and teacheth it and doth separate from the faith communion of Christ. Wherfore we can but wonder at your ignorance who staÌ„d for a Teacher in your church and yet hold some errors obstinatlie held taught against the truth of God not to be heresies or at the least not to be fundamental though you see by expresse rule euerie hereticke after one and the second admonition to be shunned Yet say we not that though euerie error thus obstinatlie held be heresie and euerie transgressioÌ„ against the lawe be sinne that therfore all sinnes are equal or all errors of like indignitie The lawe and iudgments of God teach vs to put difference NEther is ther cause whie you should chardge vs or we confesse our selues guiltie of pride presumption intrusion into Godes iudgment seat for condemning those assemblies which the whole worde of God condemneth in all their doings Greater is your pride presumption c that in this maner condemne and blaspheme the truth and seruantes of God for reprouing your sinnes that thus plead for and coulor these filthie abhominations of your Church which are most odious to euerie good conscience But this knowe for certaine howsoeuer the Shipmasters Maryners and Marchantmen of these wares howle and crye out howsoeuer the false Prophet labour to gilde and adorne the false Church with the iewells ornamentes and titles that belong to the true Church how much soeuer the Harlot doe glorifie her self and say in her heart that she sitteth as a Queene and is no widowe and shall see no sorrowe Yet shal her plagues come in one daye death and sorrowe and famine and she shalbe burnt with fire because the God that condemneth her is a strong Lorde IN that you chardge vs with the breach of the rule Math. 18. vnto you this still proceedeth of your former vayne conceipt arrogating vnto your Churches such names titles prerogatiues duties as belong and are only giuen to the true Churches of CHRIST Not being able noâ— endeuouring to approue your Churches by the Testament of Christ although you were often required and vrged by vs so to doe wherby all contention should soone haue ceased you beene cleared iustified we iustlie conuict and chardged In the meane while we affirme vnto you That these golden rules onlie belong vnto the true Churâ—h of CHRIST and that the Court without the Temple vvhich is giuen to the Gentiles is to be cast out and not to be measured The Cannons of the POPE which your Church imbraceth more fitly agree vnto you then the rules of Christs Gospel which your Church reiecteth and blasphemeth But that we maie the sooner see our fault shew vs we pray you how we might execute this rule vnto you how we might tel yt to your Church how we might be heard and haue redresse For if by your Church you meane the ConvocatioÌ„ house you see how they haue often openly reiected this sute If you meane by your Church the Bishops whom you cal the cheif gouernours of your Church you see they blaspheme this truth caling the order of Christs gouernmeÌ„t intollerable daÌ„gerous to the subuertion of Prince state they hate persecute imprison al that speake for or seek the same But if nowe you meane by Churches your Parish Churches alas you see they want power they can mend nothing be yt neuer so heinous or hereticall they must receaue what their Lordes the Bisshops impose and endure til they redresse How then to whom or to what end would you haue vs complaine vnto your Church in this estate Or with what equitie and conscience can you thus reuile and coÌ„demne vs for breaking Christs order towardes your Church when you see your Church wil not be subiect vnto Christes order but persecuteth vs and al such as reproue their faultes and seek to doo Christes will because their worckes are euil and wil not endure the light when they are neuer so litle examined therbye As shal furder appeare but by a cursorie touching of these principal transgressions following THE FIRST PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION VVHERVVITH YOVR CHVRCHES ARE CHARDGED IS THAT they worship GOD after a false maner Their worship being made of the invention of man euen of that man of sinne erroneous and imposed vpon them We leaue your first answeare vnto this Transgression and our replie vpon your said answeare to be pervsed and compared by the indifferent Reader and now addresse our selues vnto this your second defence FIrst to make our aâ—cusatioÌ„ his answere more cleare M r. GIF traÌ„slateth our PropositioÌ„ into a Sylogisme thus VVhatsoeuer assemblies worship the true GOD after a false maner their vvorship being made of the inveÌ„tion of maÌ„ euen of the maÌ„ of sinne c the same are not the true Churches of GOD. But th' assemblies as they generallie staÌ„d in England doe vvorship the true GOD after a false maner their vvorship being made of the inventioÌ„ of man c Therfore the assemblies of EnglaÌ„d be not the true Churches of GOD. We finde M r. Giffard so ful of legier du main that we had neede looke narrowlie
they fetched this geare from the POPES Portesse Againe where haue they learned to pray for their fore-Fathers offences if not of the POPE Where haue they learned to pray for all that erre for all that trauaile by land or water for all that are sicke in captiuitie tribulation c when there is a sinne for which we are forbidden to praye when there are many most vngodly and wicked persons going about and suffring for much mischief thus traueyling emprisoned c Pray they not for Gods open enemies for the breach of all Gods lawes for the ouerthrowe of all maiestracie publique peace order and for the destruction both of the Church coÌ„mon wealth therby Also where learned they to pray against lightning tempest plague famine battle c when they haue no present neede or haue no present feare or danger therof Is not this to trifle to abuse Gods name Can this prayer be of faith to praye against lightning in the middest of Wynter c Is not this to forbid God to vse his owne Creatures to his owne will and glorie Yea to forbid him to restraine his Creatures or to punish his enemies by dearth plague warre Finally where learned they to praye against sodeyne death that God should not call anie of this land yea of the whole world sodeynly Is not this to appointe God when and howe to call Hath not God reserued these secret thinges in his owne hande only forbidden men to be curious or inquisitiue after them and commanded them continually to watch be readie for in an howre that we thincke not will our Master come as a theife in the night c These are the publique prayers doctrines worship and administration of the Church of England which it not only tollerateth but with an high hand commaundeth maintayneth enforceth vpon all men Of all these execrable wares standeth Mr. GIFFARD a marchantman retayling them to the miserale people being with none more or so much offended as with those who refuse and speake against this tromperie vvhom how he rewardeth or refuteth let this his blasphemous popish booke shewe What defence he hath made for this worship and ministration Let the readers by this time iudge and howe smoothly he hath passed by and coulored yea swallowed vp all these abhominations transferring all the blame and reproach vpon the poore seruants of CHRIST that condemne this trash and admonish him Euill signes ether of a true Minister or true christian None speaking by the spirit of God iustifieth error or blasphemeth the truth at any time How far he hath sought to iustifie these antichristian deuises popish enormities and blasphemed vs for speaking the truth Let his booke shewe Yet bringeth he against vs a certaine Secte in their Church which condemne certayne thinges as corruptions such as neede reformation and therfore would know how we could abandon al th'assemblies for this Booke seing manie disalowe manie thinges therin TO this he saith we make a double answeare First that vsing a part they doe homage to the whole Then that the best part of this Booke is an abhomination to the Lorde c. This dubblenes is of your owne heart who dissembling with God and your owne conscience to auoyde opeÌ„ shame care not what wrong you doe others or what iudgments you heape vpon your self against the daye of wrath Our answeare was but one and this That you knewe neuer a Minister that vseth not the Booke that standeth not vnder this Idoll Or that had throwne it out by the power of Gods worde or with-drawen the people from yt with al their preaching these 29. yeares But that they all administer by yt ioyne their gospell to yt minister to that people that vse yt c. That the conningest of you that vse the best and leaue the rest connot make that best part you vse other then a piece of swynes-flesh an abhomination to the Lorde And that the perswation of your consciences could neither iustifie your worship cleare your selues or satisfie others Especially when we see your consciences to tollerate to submit vnto the whole to vse part in respect of your homage and to refuse part for shame of the worlde This you were ashamed to inserte because you were not able to answeare Therfore in all this they but counterfeite and you cauil What folly can you finde in this saying That in vsing part they doe homage for the whole Stand not all your Ministers bownd to this Booke sworne in their canonicall obedience to administer according to the order prescribed therin and not to preach against anie thing by publique authoritie established Stand not the Church-wardens and Sidemâ— bownde to present the defaults And the Arch-Deacon and Commissarie to censure the same How then seing all your Ministers stand in this subiection vnto yt would you haue vs thincke that the part they vse is not in respect of their homage to the whole Or howe woulde you haue vs thincke that they condemne anie part therof when they speake not against yt and cast yt not out by the power of the worde nether with-drawe themselues nor the people from yt but ioyne in prayers sacramentes with them that vse yt Is this to condemne yt or to condemne theÌ„selues rather in the things they do CaÌ„ you with your fleshly reason put this away Might they not by your reason stand sworne to y e Masse-Booke ioyne to such idolatrous priestes people as vse yt yet if in their owne conscience or secretly they dislike some faultes therof be as cleare as these Ministers you speake of are of the corruptions they condemne There are some truthes some good things in the Masse-Booke also You vse no good reason to persuade vs by your Schismes and diuisions in your Church vnto your Church We know that Christ is not diuided and y t there is but one Spirit one Baptisme CHRIST is not yea nay yea in one place naye in an other Though christiaÌ„s may through y e ignoraÌ„ce darcknes that is in them dissent in some things yet ar they to walke by one rule and not to teach diuers doctrines Who so teach otherwise or causeth anie dissentioÌ„ or offences besides the doctrine with we haue learned is to be auoyded to be cast out If either of these factions you speake of had bene of CHRIST they would yeâ— this haue proceded according to the rule of CHRIST against the offenders and not haue remayned in this contention diuision TO your next vehement exclamation of frensie In that we terme the best part of your Portesse but a piece of swynes-fleshe c wherin you saye we strike at God and blaspheame that which is most holy because therin are sondrie portions of Scripture As the Lordes prayer the tenne commandements the articles of your faith c. We beseech you when you shall be a litle come to your self are not all these with your Pistâ—es and Gospells in the Masse-Booke
also yet you wil hold no part of that execrable Idoll good The Papistes hange the first wordes of the Gospel after Iohn about their necke for manie purposes shall we not saye that this or their Agnus Dei are abhominable Idolls therfore Coniurers vse diuers Psalmes and scriptures in their magical incantations diuers Collects with as litle euill as most of yours shall we nowe allowe anie part of their Coniurations are they not altogether accursed The Scriptures then we see may be abused yet no way iustifie anie part of the wicked action or naughty thing to which they are applyed The Scriptures are holy good of themselues yet when they are thus violently rent dismembred constrayned peruerted abused ioyned to these idolatries they no way iustifie any part of the vvorship but make the whole more execrable We can saye then that those Scriptures vvhich you thus prophane and abuse to your idolatries aboue-said as your idoll feastes and all your idol vvorship and ministration are in their due place true vse holie reuerend gratious But vvhen they are abused peruerted and ioyned to patch vp this idolatrie they make the whole the more execrable All the Scriptures then of God are holy pure and all the whole Masse-Booke and English seruice-Booke and euerie part therof are detestable Idolls All which Idoll and euery part therof vve can condemne and yet preserue the sacred maiestie and aucthoritie of the Scriptures All this your festered conscience blasphemous mouth could to your furder iudgment confesse in our name though Sathan that speaketh in you by and by sought to quench it by deriding our holie suffrings Our baÌ„des vnto vs are comfortable glorious vnto God and shal rise vp and be produced in iudgment with this idolatrous murderous generatioÌ„ of your horned cleargy But now to the Scriptures be you alledged If you were demaunded where you learned to mumble ouer that Scripture by you falsely caled the Lords prayer fiue tymes in your Morowe-Masse and to vse yt at all assaies to to saye yt ouer the sick ouer the deade ouer the weomen in Churching ouer the marryed c should not your holie Father the POPE be founde the aucthor of all this Also if we should aske you where you reade and how you could proue that blasphemous Article of your faith That CHRIST discended into Hel what scripture could you shew or alleadge for yt Thus are euen those thinges wherof you glorie tourned to your shame if so be that you could be ashamed of anie thing Yet howsoeuer you maye harden your heart and your face against the manifest truth by this sleight discussing of your worship doctrines and administration euen by this litle which is alreadie said all men may discerne what kinde of ministers blinde guides you be Also anie that had but once seene the Church of Rome might easilie by the â—â—ea-spotts freakes you speake of knowe her daughter of England at the first blush For as the Mother such the Daughter is in al her limbes features and proportions Hetherto we haue spoken of some odious fowle faultes and errors in perticular founde in this their worship or Leitourgie the furder examination wherof and searche of the rest that remaine we leaue to the furder diligeÌ„ce of others And nowe touching this their seruice-booke and Leitourgie in general this we saye 1. IN that they presume to giue and enioyne their prescript wordes in praier they take the office of the Holie Ghost awaie quench the spirit of the ministrie and of the whole Church stop and keepe out the graces of God thrust their owne idle deuises vpon the whole Church yea vpon GOD himselfe whether he wil or no 2. IN that bie their Leitourgie they prescribe what and how much to reade at Morne to their Mattens at Eauen c teachinge the Church and ministrie to pray by nomber stint and proportion it is not onely popish but most friuolous and vayne disgracing and not instructing the Church and ministerie 3. IN that by this their Leitourgie they prescribe vnto the Church what Scriptures publiquelie to reade and when to reade them as these Chapters and Psalmes at their mattens before noone those at after noone c On all the dayes that they haue publique meetings and seruice through the yeere and soe from yeere to yeere They therebie take from the Church the holie and free vse both of the Scriptures and spirit of GOD. They therbie conceale and shut out of the Church a great part of GODS holie worde which they reade not As also abuse without order those scriptures they enioyne to be read 4. IN that they shread rend and dismember the Scriptures from the holie Order and natural sense of their context to make them Epistles Gospels Lessons select Psalmes to their festivals and Idol worship aboue-said They most heinouslie pervert and abuse the Scriptures to the high dishonor of GOD their owne feareful iudgment 5. IN that they bring in and commaunde the Apochrypha writings to be publiquelie read in the Church They both mainetaine and publiquelie teach the dangerous errors therin contayned to the poysoning and subverting of the faith of the Church They thrust these deuises of men into the place of GODS worde causing the people therebie to reuerence and esteeme them as the holie Oracles of GOD of like aucthoritie dignitie and truth and to resorte vnto them to builde their faith thervpon and therbie they bring in an other foundation into the Church besides the high iniurie donne vnto GOD therbie 6. FInallie in that by this their Leitourgie they bring in erect and enioyne a new strange kinde of administration as is aboue proued in the perticulars They make and erect a new Gospel and so must needes also erect vnto yt a new ministrie For the ministrie of Christ is only bounde vnto and wil onlie administer by Christes Testament wherein they haue a most perfect Leitourgie for the whole administration of his Church Therfore this present Leitourgie and ministrie of ENGLAND are by al these reasons in general and perticular founde and proued at once to be counterfeite vngodlie and Antichristian His wide friuolous Parenthesis from the 17. page of his booke vnto the 47. touching read prayer and prescript Leitourgies we leaue to be discussed and refuted by an other to whose writinges we referr the Reader Leauing Mr. Giffard and the whole Church of ENGLAND touching this first pointe of their worship to be compassed about with the sparckes and to walke on in the light of the fire that they haue kindled Yet this to them of our hand they shal lye in sorrowe THE SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION IS THAT the prophane vngodlie multitudes without the exception of anie one person are with them receiued into and retayned in the bozome and bodie of their Church IN Mr. Giffard his former answere vnto this Transgression he then not being past al shame confessed That the most Churches in England want godlie
as in the same faith obedience seeke the coÌ„munion and fellowship of the faithfull are to be receaued as members into the Church And that only the childâ—en of such by the one Parent are to be baptized We hold furder that howsoeuer the dearest children of God doe may fal yet are they still â—enued by repentance And that all such as continue obstinate in their sinne after due admonition are not by vs to be esteemed faithfull but to be held wicked prophane although the Church should refuse to cast them out This vve hope in anie christian or sober iudgment will not be founde To call all suche prophane and to condemne them as infidells which professe the faith truly and coÌ„tinue outwardly obedient although in some weaknes and infirmities as this malitious accuser falsly sclandereth vs. Nether shall we be founde to intrude into Gods iudgment seate to rend and teare vp the weake plantes in desperate and sauadge maner vvhilest we affirme those rowtes and multitudes of Atheistes Papists Idolatros heretickes blasphemers extortioners wronge-doers couetous proude vayne and light persons glottons dronckardes adulterers bawdes whores and whoremasters theiues murderers and other such like flagitious vngodly persons which were receiued into and are retayned in their Church as members to be esteamed amongst the wicked and prophane of the world and not as the right plants true members of the Church in this estate We are taught to knowe and iudge the tree by the fruictes and easily can discerne these Vines of SODOME from the Lordes Vines these stincking weedes these nettles thornes thistles from the Lordes pleasant plantes the sweet incense trees oliue pome-granate figge trees of the Lordes walled Orcharde of his Church We cannot mistake the mountaines of these Leopardes and Wolues for CHRISTES sheepfold the cages of these vncleane and hatefull birdes for the holie assemblie of Sainctes Neither may vve nowe flatter and dissemble contrarie to the evident truth of God and our owne conscience to iuâ—tifie and blesse the wicked to call the churle liberall to saye to the wicked they are righteous and to them that despise the Lorde they shall haue peace as this vvretched man doth for his bellye Who being in league with his Ordinarie and in couenante with Hell is not ashamed to stand a Priest of all these abhominations to the most abhominable seeking to pleade for and iustifie both terming these rowtes of all sortes of wicked vngodly persons the Sainctes the assemblies of them the Church and sheep-fold of CHRIST calling the most hateful and horrible sinnes they daylie commit but their infirmities and weaknes the most execrable blasphemies and idolatries but the spotts bleamishes of their Church What then shall we iudge of their sinners and sinnes if these be their Saincts infirmities bleamishes But there are none so bad as we that speake against these holie assemblies of these Sainctes and that for these their bleamishes infirmities c. Al that feare God may tremble at our intollerable wickednes Mr. Giffard saith That teare vp these weake plaÌ„tes yea whole assemblies that vnfeinedly sorrowe and mourne for their sinnes and studie to please God We are they that take vpon vs to plucke vp al the darnel though we be commaunded the contrarie lest we plucke vp the wheate Math. 13. What spirit leadeth vs and possesseth him and his Church as also how they sorrowe and mourne for their sinnes Let th'ocasions of these controuersies betwixt vs their tyrannie our sufferings and this his present writing declare Wee blame and witnesse against manie most heynous horrible sinnes So far are they from acknowledging the same that they wil not be confessed amongst the bleamishes of his Church Yea insteade of repeÌ„tance they persecute he blasphemeth and in euerie sentence of his booke casteth at vs in his furie these his fire-brandes poysoned arrowes and deadly dartes wherwith his whole Booke is seasoned insteade of better grace and al for shewing admonishing them of their sinnes Vnto this place Mat. 13. which he bringeth against vs for plucking vp the tares he must acknowledge these his weake plaÌ„tes euen al the prophane multitudes deluge of people to be those tares or ells he cannot vse yt against vs or blame vs for plucking them vp This if he confesse then can they not be held in this estate the children of the kingdome that tender wheate that blossomed and made fruite Then hath he granted vs as much coÌ„cerning this poynte as we require yea and iudged them as far as we iudge which is not concerning their future but their present estate Their election or reprobation we leaue to that great hous-holder the maker and iudge of all conteyning our selues within the rules of his reuealed worde whose iudgmeÌ„ts we cannot lighten or pronownce the wicked innocent against whose iudgmeÌ„ts who so spurne or resist but stomble at that rocke which wil grind them to powder If Mr. Giffard vnderstand the field in this place to be the Church he choseth rather to insist in the errour of others then in th'exposition of our Sauiour himself who saith verse 38. That the field is the worlde the good seede are those Children of the kingdome but the tares are the Children of the wicked one If yt should be vnderstoode of the planted Church then were al the rules ordinances censures and gouernment of the Church vtterly abolished TheÌ„ might al be receiued in and none at anie tyme for anie offence cast out of the Church c. Then also could not the ciuile Maiestrate put anie offendor to death for that were to roote out the Tares Neither can these Tares be vnderstoode of those hypocrites whose sinnes appeare not for then could not the Disciples discerne iudge and seeke to roote them vp Or being so vnderstoode be compared to those multitudes of prophane whose heynous sinnes are manifest Let the Tares then be the children of the wicked one and not the Sainctes of CHRIST Let the tares be in the worlde and not in the Church seing our Sauiour himself so pronounceth them and instructeth his disciples so to thinck of them Yet let not his disciples in anie inordinate zeale seeke to roote them vp seing they haue nothing to doe to iudge them that are without But let them rather by al meanes seeke their ingrafting in instructing them inal gentlenes if so be that God at anie tyme wil giue them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth that they also may be partakers of the like mercie and grace with them WHat then hath Mr. Giffard gayned by this place That the opeÌ„ prophane such as neuer made true voluntarie profession of their owne faith other then that prescript verbal confession which is enioyned to them al in their Seruice-booke which a childe of 4. yeeres olde may say after the Priest as wel as they may be receaued into the Church Or that al sortes of open wicked grosse
in subiection ANd now this aucthor not being able to iustifie the publique excommunicatioÌ„ of their Church of England seketh to withdrawe vs from the present question by mouing two newe questions And from those after his accustomed maner laboureth to confute vs. Because the Assumption euen as he himself with longe studie had changed contriued and framed yt could not yet serue his tourne His first questioÌ„ is this If the Bishop with sondrie other Ministers of the Gospel do dulie excoÌ„municate an obstinate wicked man is he not excommunicate before God We first answeare That the Bishop or the Church of EnglaÌ„d doth not excommunicat for anie wickednes or crime whatsoeuer be yt neuer so heynous though obstinacie be ioyned thervnto as for Adulterie murder witchcraft c but only for contempt of their Courtes for not appearing or not paying their exactioÌ„s The we answeare that the Bishop neuer caleth anie other Ministers to this actioÌ„ of excoÌ„munication Furder we answeare that this Lorde Bishop is no Minister of the Gospel or Church of Christ and therfore he hath nothing to do with th' excommunication of anie member of the visible Church Neither may or wil anie true Ministers of the Gospel ioyne vnto the Bishop in this busines But if they should we say that such excommunication is not allowed before God because it is founde contrary vnto his worde Yet this we say that the obstinate wicked are bounde and excommunicate before God whilest they continue in y t estate albeit the Church here should neglect or refuse to cast them out For the iudgments of God do neither take effect by man neither depend vpon man or stay of man but the iudgments decreed are accomplished and the wrath of God is reueled from heauen against al impietie and vnrighteousnes of men that are contentious disobey the truth Finally though it were admitted which can neuer be proued that the Bishop and these Priestes were true Ministers of the Gospel yet wee say that this excommunication donne by them in their priuate assemblie or consistorie as they cal yt is contrarie to the rules of Christs Testament and vnlawful For there we finde this power committed giueÌ„ vnto the whole Church by our Sauiour Christ who sendeth al meÌ„ to tel the Church Math. 18. 17. There we finde the execution and publishing of this performed in by the Church 1 Cor. 5. We find also the remitting receauing in againe of such excommunicate to belong to be referred vnto the whole Church 2 Cor. 2. 6. 7. 8. Furder we there finde the iudgmeÌ„ts of God denownced against y e whole Church and euerie member of that Church where this censure of excommunicating the wicked is neglected reiected 1 Cor. 5. 2. 6. To these if we add the peculiar interest that euerie member hath in the worde doctrine and faith of Christ and in al the publique actions of the Church As also the perticular dueties that euerie member oweth vnto the whole Church together with the sondrie charges exhortatioÌ„s euerie where in the Scriptures giuen them to watch to admonish to exhorte and that not onlie the priuate members but eueÌ„ the greatest officers of the Church To marcke them diligently that cause diuisions offences coÌ„trarie to the doctrine that they haue learned and to auoide them Rom. 16. 17. 2 Iohn 10 To take heed what and whom they heare To hold such accursed be they men or Angels that preach vnto theÌ„ besides that they haue receaued Gal. 1. 9. To admonish Archippus Col 4. 17. To withdrawe themselues from euerie brother that walketh inordinately and not according to the tradition they haue receaued 2. Thess. 3. 6. To note such as abey not the worde and not to be coÌ„mingled with them that they may be ashamed 2 Thess. 3. 14. Yf their brethren sinne to rebuke them if they repent to forgiue them if not to retaine their sinne Luke 17. 3. 4. And to procede according to the rule Math. 18. 15. 16. 17. These perticular dueties chardges dulie considered there can be no doubte but euerie christiaÌ„ is a Kingâ— Priest vnto God to spie out censure cut downe sinne as yt ariseth with that two edged sworde that proceedeth out of Christs mouth As also that th'excommunication of anie member belongeth to the whole Congregation the whole bodie together seing al the members haue like interest each in other c Albeit the Church thus assembled be to vse the help or Ministerie of the most fit member for the pronowncing of this excommunication c. HEre then fal to the grounde those 4. false interpretations of Math. 18. 17. Tel the Church 1. Some vnderstanding by the Church the Pope who they say is Christes Vicare general and supreame head of the Church 2. Others would vnderstand it of the Lord Arch-Bishops grace or of the Lord Bishops who apart may excommunicate absolue for the whole church 3. Some others there are that vnderstaÌ„d by this word Church the companie of Elders aparte from and without the people which companie they cal the Consistorie and this ought to excommunicate c. 4. The last sorte are in a quite coÌ„trarie extremitie and these would haue the people without the Elders to excommunicate elect c and that by pluralitie of voyces THe two first sortes depend of one lyne and builde their prehemineÌ„ce vpoÌ„ the promise made to the Apostle Peter Mat. 16. 18. 19. where the keyes of the kingdoÌ„ of Heauen are giueÌ„ him And vpon the Apostle Paule his example who deliuered Himeneus Alexander vnto Sathan 1 Tiâ—oth 1. 20. They bring also the commaundement of Paule vnto Timoâ—hy To rebuke the Elders that sinne opeÌ„ly 1. Tim. 5. â—0 and the commaÌ„demeÌ„t vnto Titus to reiect an hereticke Titus 3. 10. Touching the power of the keyes we haue aboue in the handling of the Priestes absolution shewed yt not to depeÌ„d vpoÌ„ the dignitie of meÌ„s persons or offices but vpoÌ„ the vertue truth of God his worde from which wheÌ„ Peter or the Pope himself departeth his worde not onlie bindeth not but is lyable vnto reprofe bownd by the worde Which worde is giueÌ„ not to Peter onlie but to the whole Church that is builte vpon that rocke and to euerie member therof and hath like power to binde or to loose in the mouth of the least as in the mouth of the greatest For it is impossible that the word of God should be made of none effect As to Paules exaÌ„ple we suppose they can euil shewe any such authenticke warrant for their Apostolike aucthority ouer al Churches persons or such measure of grace as Paule had therfore we thinck they ought quietly to remaine within such lawes and limits in their calings as Paule hath left order For the commaundments giueÌ„ to Timothy Titus they can neither proue that they executed them in such poÌ„tifical maner as they do or in
so were it againe a most monstruous confusion high rebellion on the other side if the people should thus expulse and shut out their gouernours and guides those most fit members that God hath giuen them to these actions from amongst them and then decide and determine causes by pluralitye of voyces What can be deuised more barbarous and vnworthie the Church of CHRIST then this Were not this as if the bodie should offer violence vnto or laye aside the eyes and then diuide yt self into factions and partes for the busines yt hath to doe This balloting by suffrage or plurality of voyces might well be a custome amongst the heathen in their popular gouernmentes but yt is vnhearde of and vnsufferable in the Church of CHRIST whatsoeuer some dreame vnto themselues therof There all from the highest to the lowest in all actions enquire the will of God which being knowen they all then walke by the same rule and with one consent doe the will of God accordingly There is no diuision in that bodie neither anie thing donne according to the will of man but according to the will of God only all hauing receiued of and being guided by one and the same spirit euen as God is one and CHâ—IST not yea and naye Now though all the members haue receiued of this spirit of God yet haue not all receiued in like measure Though all the bodie be light yet is not all the bodie an eye But God that hath made the bodie to consist of diuers members hath distributed diuers giftes in diuers measure vnto them Some he hath giuen Pastors some Teachers c for the helpe and seruice of the whole which members the whole bodie vseth according to their gifts office and function The whole bodie asketh instruction of their Teachers councel of their Elders c. The people are commanded to obey their leaders and to submit to acknowledge to honoâ— them and to haue them in super-aboundant loue These are of God set ouer the flocke to watche to instruct admonish exhort rebuke c yet not to plucke awaye the power liberty of the whole Church or to translate and assume the publicke actions of the whole Church into their owne handes alone They are men and may erre They themselues euen for al their doctrines and actions are subiect to the censure of the Church or of the least members of the Church if in any thing they be founde to erre or transgresse Yea if they remaine obstinate that Congregation wherof they remaine Ministers members is to procede against them to excoÌ„municate them as any other member For as it hath bene said the iudgments of the Church are not the iudgments of men but of God to which al the members of the Church must alike be subiect Which iudgmentes as they are committed to the whole Church with perfect rules for their maner of proceding in euerie circumstance so is the Church herevnto to vse such members as God hath giueÌ„ made most fit For Paule Apollo and Cephas are theirs And this doth no way diminish the power interest of the Church in this action Or translate these publick affaires froÌ„ the whole vnto these Elders whose couÌ„cel directioÌ„ and seruice the Church vseth herein no more then a Prince or State may be said not to doe those thinges wherevnto they vse the aduise seruice of their Councel By the Church then here we vnderstand euerie perticular Congregation subsisting of al the members Euerie of which Congregations hath equall interest in the worde promises iudgments and power of Christ. CHRIST hath giueÌ„ vnto al Churches the same testament ministrie lawes and ordinances with like chardge aucthoritie to obserue the same He hath giuen them the same order and communion in all places one and the same rule to walke by towardes them within the faith as also to auoide cast out such as depart from the faith or walke inordinaâ—ly Neither hath CHRIST giuen vnto anie one Church more power or prerogatiue then vnto al other Or set one Church aboue ouer an other otherwise then to wish seke the good each of other of al to admonish exhort stirr vp each other as occasioÌ„ requireth And vnto this euerie member of Christ is also bounde in his caling but not to intrude encroach vpon the publicke actions duties of the whole Church or the perticular functions offices of others As to Pastors Elders their office extendeth but vnto those flockes wherof the holy Ghost hath set theÌ„ Ouerseers and not vnto all Churches in this maner to which their ministrie neither doth nor can extend Agayne ExcoÌ„munication is no part of their ministrie Neither hath God tyed it vnto the office of any but left it a publick dutie of the whole Congregation to be donne of al with one coÌ„sent How presumptuous then is he y t vsurpeth this power ouer yea of other CongregatioÌ„s to excoÌ„municate absolue elect depose c for them yea that thus plucketh froÌ„ them that power chardge which Christ hath giuen vnto them But how monstruous intollerable were the pride of that Consistory which consisting but of a few perticular members shal assume the power duties of so many Churches into their owne handes We are of minde that the best and learnedst of them shall finde their owne perticular offices in their owne perticular flockes as much as they can well performe and dischardge though they should not thus encroach vpon and assume the publick duties of the whole Church much lesse of mâ—nie Churches And sure if this Consistory should duely intend all the seueral occasions complaintes and matters of offence that howrely arise in so manie sondrie Congregations especially where all the multitudes are receiued in as members they should doe nothing ells through their whole life but sit in this Consistory yea their whole liues would not suffice to a litle part of this chardge where al th'offences of these multitudes both publick and priuate were duly admonished and prosecuted according to the commandement of God And so should these Pastors Elders neuer be able to exercise their owne ministri officers in those peculiar CongregatioÌ„s where they are chosen to serue Againe if euerie Congregation should be thus posted ouer and sent to this Consistory for the censuring of euerie peâ—ticular offence offender howe manifest soeuer c manifold inconveniences and mischieues would thervpon ensue As that they must be driuen oft-tymes to receaue and ioyne vnto the most wicked abhominable in their prayers sacraments yea if the Pastor himself should fal into some sinne heresie they must of force suffer him to administer vntill this Consistory had caste him out Many were the reasons more the inconveniences that might be alleadged against this presumptious irregular Consistory which hath no grownde in the worde of God but vtterly
subuerteth destroyeth and corrupteth the whole order coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Churches openeth a wide gap to al licentiousnes prophanenes of maners and conuersation wherin if the thowsand part of the heynouse faultes of these wicked multitudes these Sodomitical christians of these tymes should be noted prosecuted censured they should then in one weeke haue as few christians as now they haue many but nowe by this reiecting Gods ordinance erecting their owne deuises al sinne aboundeth ouer-floweth and no sinne though obstinatly held persisted an is iudged to deserue this censure Especially here in England where they excommunicate for no sinne but as the faultes aboue alleadged are held but bleamishes in their worship so the greatest sinnes wickednes are held but infirmities in their life by the Prophets of these dayes But vnto this their Consistory againe They that thus shall erect advance one perticular Congregation as a Iudge a Mother ouer others their Sisters must also erect in the same Congregation or Consistorie one perticular Pastor y t must be a Iudge a Father ouer other Pastors his bretheren And then let them duly consider how far this differeth from Or at leaste how then they can coÌ„demne that Apostatical Sea of ROME and that vnholy Father y â— sitteth therin And let Mr. GIF that is so wel skilled in discipline so derideth our ignorance now at length coÌ„sider better of this reason Seing euery perticular Congregation of Christ hath the power of our Lord Iesus Christ against all sinne and transgressioÌ„ to censure the sinne and to excoÌ„municate the obstinate offenders c. And seing these Parishes haue not this power of Christ neither in themselues in perticular nor yet in their Consistories as hath bene proued whether this conclusion which he termeth so absurde will not followe That they are not therfore the true churches of Christ. And let him y e next time frame a better answere then the Geneua Consistory which though for the reasons abouesaid yt can yeild him no help yet may it not be compared with the popish courtes of these antichristiaÌ„ Bishops Neither will his other kindes of excommunication in their English Romish Synodes proue better Our answeare then vnto his second question is That the excommuncication of an hereticke after he is dulie convinced founde obstinate belongeth not to anie Bishops or Elders of other Churches but vnto that Congregation wherof this heretick stood a ioyned member Although we graunt that for the discussing of matters in doubt and the convincing of some notorious subtile heretick the ayde of other Churches is verie necessarie But the bloudie procedings of these popish Bishops that in their Consistory not onlie convince the heretitke after their scholastical and vnchristiaÌ„ maner but deliuer him to the secular powers to be burned with fire whether the qualitie of the heresie deserue death or no by the lawe of God wherbie they make the magistrates together with theÌ„selues guiltie of murder declare vnto al men how vnlike their popish Consistories are to the holie free wel ordered Synodes of christian Churches But blessed be God that hath somewhat restrayned their crueltie and heweÌ„ their antichristian hornes by statute heere in tâ—is land that they cannot in that maner procede vnto bloude howsoeuer their tongues are not restrayned therbie froÌ„ pronowncing that truth of Christes Gospel which they cannot and dare not vâ—dertake to convince heresie and those Christians which yeild not to their antichristian yoke and enormities Hereticks Vnto the Convocation also of these Romish Priests and horned Cleargie we answeare That it carieth no shew of a christian Synode or Councel and so their excommunication of as litle value as their Sire the Popes is Furder we answeare That Synodes and Councels were not instituted to plucke away the power or â—o execute the publicke dueties of the Church but to instructe stir vp and confirme them in their duties to help them to decide controversies to shew them the rules of Gods worde and not to breake them or to make newe Moreouer we saye That in a christian Synode no christian ought to be shut out but hath equal power and freedome to speake in assent or dissent of anie thing there handled as occasion requireth Yet ought euerie christiaÌ„ to vse this power and libertie aright not disturbing the holie order of the Church presuming to speake before their auntients or against anie thing by them said without shewing iust cause c alwaies keping theÌ„selues within the compasse of faith and sobrietie Who so doth otherwise is reproued of al and iudged of al as a disturber NExt commeth the Suspension or half communication of the Church of ENGLAND namely the Priestes repelling notorious offenders the open Wicked from the Sacrament Mr. Siffard being demaunded of vs simple christians what warraÌ„t he could shew for this strange censure in the Testament of CHRIST and what aucthoritie the Priest there hath to excommunitate anie member of the Church if so be this Suspension were in nature of excommunication Answeareth that it is in nature of excommunication to such as haue bene before admitted yet not to be compared or anie thing neere so great as excommunication And for the Minister that he is to take heed to himself that he giue not holie things to doggs To beware of that which may giue publick offence bring the holie mysteries into coÌ„tempt Because these his answeres doe no way shew or proue that we demaund it is needful that we make a litle â—urder search to seeke out the nature of this Suspension and how neere yt commeth to excommunication We finde that such as before were partakers of are now openlie repelled from the Table of the Lord for notorious sinne wickednes by the Priest alone Now touching this Sacrament doth not the Apostle say The Cup of blessing which we blest is yt not the communion of the blood of CHRIST The breade which we breake is it not the CommunioÌ„ of the Bodie of CHRIST Because we manie are one breade one Bodie for we all partake of one breade 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. We see here this Sacrament of the Supper to denote that communion which all that partake therof haue with Christ as his members And againe that communion which they haue one with an other in CHRIST as one an others members This their suspensioÌ„ then being a publick â—emouing of notorious offenders from the communion of Christ and from al benefite of his death From the communioÌ„ of the Church and froÌ„ al interest of the Saincts We would knowe of him what it lacketh of excommunication and what excommunication is more If he say that the suspended are not repelled from the ministrie of the worde and prayers of the Church as th'excommunicate are We would then know of him where he hath learned to receiue such to the communion of the ministrie or anie actions of the Church that are repelled from al communion and fellowship with
Christ and his Church Or how dare he vndertake to offer vp their prayers in this estate vnto God whom for their notorious sinne and impenitencie he hath repelled from the communion of Christes bodie and bloode Thincketh he that Christ caÌ„ be a Priest for anie at the golden Altare to offer or receiue the inceâ—se and odoures of their prayers vnto whom he refuseth to be a sacrifice at the brazen Altare Or hath he not some Popish conceipt of more holines in the outward elements of the breade wyne in this Sacrament then there is in the fellowship of the holie prayers and administration of Gods worde in the Church els whie should he more repel for notorious sinne wickednes from this SacrameÌ„t then from the communion of the prayers and ministrie of the Church Our Sauiour Christ doth commaund that wheÌ„ the sinne is publick brought vnto the Church theÌ„ if the offender heare not the Church but remain impenitent he should without delaye or partialitie be cut off and caste out as a withered branche and be deliuered vnto Sathaâ— for the humbling of his flesh that the spirit might be saued in the daye of the Lord. The parish Priest in the Church of England insteade of excommunicatioÌ„ doth suspend such notorious wicked and impenitent from the Table of the Lorde yet admitteth he them stil to the prayers and ministrie of the Church in this estate and holdeth them stil meÌ„bers as before The Lord saith that excommunication when the sinne is publicke and the offender obstinate is the only remedie that we can administer for the salvation of the partie and the preservation of the whole Church The Church of England saith that Excommunication is to rough and seuere to cut him quite off and caste him quite out at once and therfore hath deuised this temperate middle course to cut him half off and caste him half out Is not this to iudge their owne wayes equal and the Lords wayes vnequal Is it not to esteeme theÌ„selues more merciful iust and wise then the Lord himself Ells would they not say that ExcommunicatioÌ„ were to rough when the sinne is notorious and the offender obstinate Ells would they not in place of excommunication bring in their owne deuised Popish Suspension Wherby besides that they controle God and breake his commandement in sparing where they should smite cut off and in suffring when they should caste out they furder bring the whole Church into the coÌ„tagion of these sinnes and into the iudgmeÌ„t wrath of God for the same if so be it be true that is writteÌ„ that a litle of such leauen maketh sower the whole iumpe or that the wrath of God for such offences burneth-against the whole Church Moreouer it would be knowen of this discipliner this suspender in what estate we might esteeme hold this notorious wicked person thus suspended whether as a brother or as an heathen If a brother how may he then be repelled from the communion with Christ and his Chuâ—ch Whie should he being a member hauing made professioÌ„ of his faith and not yet excommunicate be denied those heauenly comforts helpers of his faith If he be not to be held a member whie is he not then according to the commandement of God publickely caste out that al men might know how to esteeme of him and how to walke towards him For surely except it were the Popes purgatorie we neuer hearde of such a middle meane estate as this Neither euer in Christes Testament haue we read of such a sensure as this idole suspeâ—sion they vse Neither for anie thing by him alleadged can we perceiue anie warrant that the Priest may in this maner by his sole aucthoritie reiect anie from the communion table It followeth not because he is to looke that he giue not holie things to doggs to beware of publick offence and that he bring not the holie mysteries into contempt that therfore of his sole aucthoritie he may repelaâ—ie from the Sacrament that hath before receiued yt The meanes for him to auoyde offences to preserue his ministeriâ— from contempt is to kepe the commandements of God The Lorde hath commanded that when anie that is caled a bâ—other faleth into open sinne and remaineth obstinate and hardened therin so that he refuseth to heare the Church that such an offender in open Congregation by the whole Church be caste out deliuered to Sathan in the name of our Lorde IESVS CHRIST No where is there in all Christes Testament anie commandement that the Minister of his solâ— aucthoritie should reiect anie from the communioÌ„ of Christ of the Church especially in this conterfeite maner The way then for the ministrie to auoyde offence to preserue the holy mysteries from contempt is to cause the Church according to the commandemeÌ„t of God to reiect caste out such offenders wicked persons so shal he be sure not to deliuer the holy things of God vnto doggs Yea if the Church should refuse to caste them out then ought he to staye his ministerie and not to communicate with other més sinnes or in this estate to execute the ministerie of Christ vnto them whilest they refuse to obey Christs voyce But instead hereof this sacrilegious Priest his compaignions are not afraide to prostitute sel the bodie bloude of Christ to the open prophane notoriously wicked skorners and contemners for their wage offrings tithes thus trampling the SoÌ„ne of God vnder their feete and compting the bloode of the Testament a common thing What florish soeuer they may seeme to make with this their wooden dagger of suspension which rather manifesteth their follie and presumption theÌ„ anie waye cleareth them of this sacriledge great is their presumption in that they take vpon theÌ„ this absolute power ouer the whole Church and ouer the Table of the Lord to repel whom they liste of their owne sole aucthoritie from the communion of CHRIST and of his Church wherof they are but Ministers and perticular members in the best accompt and not Lords sole rulers And yet greater is their presumption in that they dare thrust out the holie ordinance of God namelie publick Excommunication and in place therof set vp their owne deuised idole suspension which what kinde of censure it is may appeare by that which hath bene said Yt hath no foundation or warrant in CHRISTS Testament but possesseth the place of that yt is not namely of ture excommunication therfore yt must needes be that idole instrument of that foolish shephearde which the Lorde setteth ouer those sheepe with whom he hath disanulled the couenant The aucthoritie of their Portesse their seruice-booke wil no way iustifie either them or yt The abhominatioÌ„s of that booke haue bene a little touched yet is not this wretched man ashamed to stand vnder that monstruous idole and to professe that all the Ministerie of England vse that booke in the publick prayers and
administration of prohibition from the Sacraments The vanitie and follie of this idole suspension most plainely appeareth vnto al men by the litle good it doth in anie of these Parrishes where al prophanenes and iniquitie stil aboundeth The Bishop his Chauncelor or Commissary may with one worde of their mouth heale the greatest wounde the Parrish-Priest can make with this Suspension whatsoeuer Mr. Parson saye They haue power to absolue anie that he bindeth and how cheape their absolutions are is not vnknowē to anie whore master in al the Parrish The Bishop hath power to make and to depose Ministers at his pleasure he hath power ouer the whole ministration he prescribeth howe whē to whom they shal administer What truth then is in these wordes that the Bishop cannot take away that power which their seruice-booke giueth them when he may absolue the partie disanul the suspension depose the Minister c. In that he saith the Bishop is but a Minister and no Lord ouer their faith and conscience The same will euerie Popish Priest say of their soveraigne Lorde the POPE to preserue the dignitie of their ministerie The POPE writeth himself but the seruant of the seruants of God What Lordlie authoritie the Bishop hath exerciseth and in what seruile subiection the Priestes all the Parishes stand vnto their Courtes iurisdiction shal hereafter more appeare when we come to the discussing of those poyntes In the meane while we willingly assent vnto Mr. GIFFARD that the christian reader shall iudge whether their seruice-booke be not a fit Portesse for such Priestes and this suspension a fit toole for such worckmen Still affirming euen with wonder that if the iudgmentes of God were not vpon their right eye and vpon their right arme they might perceaue how their Lordes the Bishops dresse them and how this weapon they allowe them wanteth both edge and poynte c. Thus hauing finished his answeare to our assumption he procedeth to a former answeare where he denied the Consequence That where wicked prophane men are receiued into reteyned in the bozome of the Church there the couenant is disanulled with them and they are no longer Godes people but a false antichristian Sinagogue To disproue this he alleadged that there were but fewe true worshippers that frequented the Temple amongst multitudes of prophane vngodly men To this he now addeth the examples of the Church at Corinth and of the seuen Churches in Asia c. We before answeared stil answeare that there is no comparison betwixt or Argument to be drawen from those Churches which were rightly gathered established and these confused Bibilonish Synagogues of theirs The Israelites were a peculiar separated people vnto the Lorde from the worlde The people of these other Churches were wonne caled and gathered vnto CHRIST by the preaching of the Gospel euery one entred into the Church by the voluntarie professiō of his owne faith No vncircumcised or Gentile might enter into the Temple to offer any gift there All nor yet the greater part of the Citie of Corinth nor of these other parts of Asia were not receiued into the Church as members But here in their Church of England al the whole land is receiued in and that immediatly from open idolatrie without any voluntarie professiō of their owne faith by the people in perticular yea without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them vnto the faith Therfore in these reasons he but beggeth the questiō and assumeth that which he ought to proue Namely That these multitudes of all the prophane al sorts of wicked persons were sometymes rightly gathered vnto and entred couenant with the Lorde hauing the true ministrie gouernement of CHRIST set ouer them and nowe being fallen into some sinnes are not cast out but stil retayned in their Church This if he had donne then had there bene some cause y ◠he might haue brought against vs th'examples of these Churches Then should not we haue needed to haue shewed him his follie twise Yet this if he had donne the contrarie wherof is manifest to al that remember the beginning of her Maiesties raigne or but behold the present estate in the same or rather in more confusion sinne being more encreased Yet then we should easily haue put difference betwixt those Churhes that amēded at the Apostles admonition and these which reiect all the rules ordinances ecclesiastical of CHRISTS Testament as pernitious and intollerable to th'estate of this land and persecute al such as admonish them of and will not partake with them in their idolatrie sacriledge WE also in our former writing shewed him how the faithfull seruants of God in the idolatrous dayes of Kinge ACHAS MENASSE AMON IEHOIAKIM c refrayned from the Temple being so polluted and defiled and mixed not themselues with the wicked in idolatrous worship This Mr. GIFFARD confesseth to be true and that it was theire duetie so to doe But he saith we do not argue whether the godly did ioyne with the wicked in idolatrie but whether the wicked were suffred and did ioyne with the godlie in true worship To the question we haue aboue spoken Only this by the waye we drawe from his owne confession That if the godly in those dayes did wel in separating from not cōmunicating with the wicked in those times of publick idolatrie then cānot we be blamed which separate withdrawe our selues from these prophane assemblies where such abhominable idolatrie and sacriledge is publickly vsed and enforced as we haue aboue proued and thus are we by him cleared and iustified Againe we convince him of his owne mouth thus If the faithfull did well in those tymes to withdraw and separate themselues from the wicked in their idolatrie which then was publickly set vp Then was not the publick estate of the Iewes in those tymes of vs to be held the true Church of God For the godly maie at no tyme separate from the true Church of God nor repayre vnto the false Church And thus by himself is an end put at once to all his cauils wherbie he hath endeuored to prooue the Iewes in these most corrupt tymes to be the true outwarde church of God and to accuse vs of heresie that affirme where such heynous transgressions are obstinatly defended persisted in by the whole Church there the Couenant vnto the iudgmēt of the faithful is disanulled there the faithful may not communicate And verie ignorant is Mr. Giffard if he thinck that the wicked and prophane may either be receiued into the Church or retayned in the Church as members The wicked prophane which were neuer entred into the Church may ought to be caled to heare the ministrie of the worde of God in the Church as the meanes wherbie they may be caled vnto the faith and so vpon their profession be receiued as members into the fellowship cōmunion of the Church But vntil they make open voluntarie
of Gods promises the greatnes of Gods mercie that remembreth his Couenant in his greatest indignation wrath as also the smale beginnings and daylie growth and proceadings of our sanctification in this life As though we euer doubt or denied that the Lord our God his couenant was made established and preserued vnto vs in his CHRIST only without any worckes or merite in vs present or to come to deserue or to retaine his fauour the least minute Alas our miserable forlorne estate even from our Mothers wombe before we knowe the Lorde yea our contynual transgressions defections euer since we knewe the Lorde wheÌ„ we behold our liues in that sparckling glasse of his lawe do shew vs that we are not saued be worckes but by the free grace mercie of God through faith in CHRIST and that not of our selues but by the gift of God whose worcke we are created in CHRIST IESVS vnto good worckes which God hath fore-ordayned y t we should walke in them But now whilest we acknowledge the whole worcke of our saluation from the beginninge to the end to be of God and not of our selues to procede from to be established vpon his free grace mere mercy and loue and not from or vpoÌ„ any goodnes in vs fore-seene or subsequent Yet make we not therby the grace of God and his holy spirit which he hath giueÌ„ to al his elect to be idle vayne or fruictlesse in any of them but to regenerate chaunge enlighten and sanctifie them to bring all their affections into and to keepe them in the loue obedience of the truth By the profession of which truth they are knowen receiued as members of the visible Church made partakers of the commune comfortes couenant of the Saincts From which profession when they fall away and will not be reduced by the voyce of the Church or renued by repentaÌ„ce but remaine obstinate hardned in their sinnes then are they by the commandement power of CHRIST to be cut off as withered branches to be cast out from the fellowship of the saincts and all interest in CHRIST to be deliuered vnto Sathan c. The same rules faith saluation iudgments we haue aboue shewed to belong vnto al and vnto euerie one vnto al as vnto one being founde in the same faith or in the same transgressions Now then whilest the whole Congregation or anie member therof shall remaine hardened in sinne deniâ—ng to obey Christes voyce refusing to repent who can say that this Church or man in this estate can by vs which iudge see but according to the rules of the worde be affirmed held the true Church of Christ within the outward Couenant when Christ himself commandeth vs to deliuer them vp to Sathan in his name to haue no fellowship with them This caÌ„not be doÌ„ne of vs vnto any whom we may affirme within the outward couenant God his secret electioÌ„ councels wherin he hath determined from before al worlds who shalbe saued how far the faithful shalbe tryed fal and when he wil raise them againe beloÌ„ge not vnto vs to iudge of Onley this is most sure they y t thus fal away are hardened are not of vs to be held esteemed within the outwarde CovenaÌ„t or receiued vntil they as publickly repeÌ„t How theÌ„ can this wicked sclaÌ„deâ—er drawe this gracelesse collection damnable coÌ„clusioÌ„ from this holie doctrine That where obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne there the outward Covenant is brokeÌ„ no communioÌ„ to be held vntil repentance be made Therfore we holde that the stablenes of Gods CouenaÌ„t with his Church depeÌ„deth vpon the worcked of meÌ„ Because we say that God sanctifieth al that he saueth Therefore we hold salvation by workes Because we hold that faith which is without fruictes to be deade worthles Therefore we hold salvatioÌ„ by workes Because God requireth obedieÌ„ce of al his seruants that enter into or remaine in his house and commandeth them to haue no â—ellowship with anie loÌ„ger then they coÌ„tynue in the same fayth obedieÌ„ce Therfore we make the stablenes of Godes CovenaÌ„t to depeÌ„de vpon our workes yea vpon the workes of others whom we must iudge What heretick or peruerted spirit could more highlie abuse deface the holy doctrines of Christ Is Mr. Giffard a teacher of the Church of England and cannot yet put difference betwixt the worcke of our salvatioÌ„ by Christ for vs the worke of Gods holy spirit the fruicts of Gods grace in vs That cannot put difference betwixt obedience mercie but that he wil make y e worck of Gods grace to abrogate Gods grace That cannot discerne betwixt the secret electioÌ„ of God Christes visible Church betwixt the temporarie iudgments of Christes Church according to the rule of Gods word and the final doome of God in his determinate councel Thus not knowing what either Gods Covenant Christes Church the communion or excommunioÌ„ therof meaneth this impious man vpoÌ„ these dotages seeketh to convince vs of his surmized heresies because we blame forsake these Babilonish confuse assemblies where al sortes of prophane and wicked are gathered together without faith or order bownde sed and suffred together in al impietie mischief and licentiousnes without censure or controlement vnto whome he for the wage of Balaam is powred forth and most sacrilegiously selleth them his pretended Sacraments for their two pennie shot or offring HE laboureth to defend this sacriledge confusion by th' examples of other Churches vnder the Lawe vnder the Gospel He beginneth with the estate of the Church vnder Moses where the rebellious Israelites whose carkases fel in the wildernes of whom the Lorde sware that they should not see his rest yet were not cast out of th' assemblie nor separated so longe as they liued nor their seed reiected So that he still beare in minde that he but beggeth the question so ofte as he compareth these confuse prophane assemblies that were neuer rightly gathered vnto nor established in the faith vnto true Churches vnto this place we answeare That he moste ignorantlie boldlie affirmeth an vntruth We reade Exod. 33. after the Israelites had made their Calf and committed idolatrie that Moses both did execution vpon the chief Idolators and with-drewe his tent and separated from the rest vntil they were reconciled vnto the Lorde Furder we reade that vpon publick notorious transgressions the Lorde executed publick iudgments sondrie tymes wherby the chief were taken away the rest brought to repentance Numb 12. 14. 39. and 25. and 21. 6. 7. We reade of separation from those of Corathes conspiracie c Numb 16. 21. 24. 26. verses We reade also Numb 12. that Miriam was separated out of the hoste vntill she was healed Likewise we reade of sondrie perticular iudgments for perticular transgressions As for breaking the Sabaoth for blaspheming c Num. 15. Whereby his impudencie is convinced But nowe if it were graunted him then which nothing
in the faith notwithstanding that grieuous sinnes brake out amongst them so long as they despised not admonition and refused not to repent were to be still held and esteemed as the true Church of CHRIST who if we confesse our sinnes is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all iniquitie But as we haue often said this maketh against Mr. GIFFARD because the Church of ENGLAND was no such true Church before that and wherein these faultes were and are committed Vnto his second allegation that all shewed not repentance for the vncleannes fornication and vvantonnes vvhich they had coÌ„mitted We acknowledge it as the Apostle recordeth it to be a great fault in the whole Church That they did not more diligently search out the sinne and speedely caste out the sinners that remayned impenitent Yet was this in the Church but a fault of negligence and not of anie obstinacye they neither contemnded admonition neither spurned against their admoniâ—hers Yet euen this slacknes and negligence the Apostle thus sharplie seuerely reproueth threatning if they amend not to come with a rodde and with the power of CHRIST against them He neither iustified nor flattered them in their sinnes as this false Prophet doth who hath no better argumentes to pleade for oâ— iustifie this apostasie and obstinacie of the Church of England then the greatest sinnes and odious faultes of other Churches But to such a height measure is their wickednes encreased as all the sinnes of all Churches in all ages are too narrowe to couer the bedd of their fornicatioÌ„ Neither can those fearefull breaches lamentable ruines in the Churches of Asia heale the wounde of the Church of England If God so threatned or menaced those Churches to come and feight against them to remoue their candle-sticke c vvhat shalbe the iudgmentes of the Church of England what can she expect whose sinnes so far exceede which taketh boldnes to contynue in sinne and pleade for the same from these examples which the Lord hath lefte as monumentes of terror to all posterities Yet in all these desolations of these Churches can there be no comparison betwixt these barbarous confuse assemblies and those Churches which sometymes were rightly gathered and established vnto the faith and into the order of CHRIST and so all Mr. GIFFARDS labour and paynes herein is lost Neither will this conclusion followe That because yt ceaseth not to be a Church by and by where the open wicked are not separated because the Church sometimes may fall into such sinnes of ignorance or of negligence Therefore the godly are not defiled which communicate with these open wicked in prayers sacramentes and other spirituall exercises Might he not aswel conclude that because yt ceaseth not to be a Church herevpon therfore yt is no sinne But if yt be a sinne in the whole Church then is the whole Church guiltie of defiled with that sinne NOwe as Mr. GIFFARD laboureth to drawe this conclusion so striueth he to proue this proposition That the admission of the open vvicked impenitent to the table of the Lorde doth not defile either the Sacrament or the faithfull receiuers Herevnto he hath gathered a fewe stale reasons 1. As that the wickednes of the Minister doth not difile the holy thinges of God Iudas Ely his Sonnes the Scribes Pharasies were wicked meÌ„ yet were the thinges they administered holie 2. Then that the godly communicant toucheth not the sinnes of others but the holie thinges of God because there cannot be a separation from the wicked in bodie or bodily thinges alwaies but they which touche not their sinnes obey the commandement Come out from amonge them separate your selues touche none vncleane thing That the blame of receiuing such wicked resteth only vpon such as haue the power of the discipline in their handes and not vpon priuate members which mourne lament to see such fowle matters wincked at which mourners are cleared Ezech. 9. TO discuse these pointes in perticular would make this discourse ouer long breiflie therfore this we say To the first that difference must be put betwixt hypocrites whose wickednes is onlie knoweÌ„ vnto the Lord and such wicked whose sinne is knowen vnto the Church The publicke ministrie of secret hypocrits that are rightly caled to a lawful office and execute their office without fault or blame is holie blessed and profitable to the whole Church which can but looke vpon and iudge the outwarde action and estate and not the hearte and conscience of anie yet this their ministerie is vnavayleable to themselues and maketh to their owne greater condemnation But where the Minister is detected of and remayneth obstinate in anie transgression his ministration is not acceptable to the Lord neither ought to be suffered or ioyned vnto of the Church The Lord willbe sanctified of all that come neere vnto him Vnder the lawe he required an holie ministerie to serue in the priestes office without outward mayne or bleamish lest he defiled the holie thinges of the Lorde The offerings of anie other were not acceptable to the Lorde It is also written that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abhomination to the Lord as if they cut off a dogges heade or offred swynes bloode They haue nought to doe to declare the Lords ordinances that hate to be reformed and caste his worde behinde them The Church ought not onlie to forbid such to administer but to cast them out of the fellowship which if the Church neglect and refuse to doe them are they guiltie of the open or wilful breach of Gods holie ordinances in suffring his holie name and ministerie to be prophaned yea in ioyning thervnto and reioycing therin The examples by him alleadged no waye help him Iudas whilest he remayned with our Sauiour was an hypocrite his sinnes vndiscoured yea vncommitted so longe in that estate his publicke ministerie was lawful holie and acceptable vnto others The ministerie of the Sonnes of Eli after their wickednes was publick wea abhominable vnto God to be detested of all the faithful yet was the sinne of the people verie great who vpon and for the sinnes of these wicked prestes abhorred the offringes of the Lorde which were euer to be esteemed most holie being lawfullie administred otherwise they are not the offrings of the Lord. The people then as nowe grewe into Atheisme and all impietie abhorring all Gods worship and refusing to be at anie chardge louing the creatures better then the Creator by seing the great insolency and inreverence of the prestes Touching the Scribes and Pharasies we haue alreadie said enoughe TO his other allegations that the faithful are not defiled by communicating with the open and obstinate wicked in the Supper of the Lorde and other spiritual exercises because they touche not the sinne of the wicked but the holy thinges of God c Surelie this is verie odd diuinitie contrarie to al the groundes of scripture that we haue read of We had
thought that all the communicantes at the Lordes Table had bene ioyned commingled together into one spiritual body euen into CHRIST as manie grapes are there bruzed into one cup manie graynes into one loafe Furder we had thought y t no obstinate offender whose sinne is publicklie knowen might haue beene admitted to that holie Table without wilful sacriledge and high prophanation of those holie mysteries both in all the Communicantes and in the Minister Wee reade in the lawe plentifullie That the leprous or polluted person defiled whatsoeuer touched him whether person vessel holie or ciuile c and that such person on vessel c remayned vnholie therebie vntil they were clensed according to the lawe The Prophet Haggai confirmeth the same and saith that whatsoeuer holie thing bread wyne or oyle a polluted person toucheth yt is made therbie vncleane The Apostle also sheweth in expresse wordes That as a litle leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe so one open vnworthie receiued to the supper of the Lorde maketh all the communicantes guiltie and their reioycing or feast not good before the Lord likening the whole Church to the lumpe the wicked person and sinnes kept amongst them to the leauen their reioycing to the eating of the Paschal c Which most direct place this ignorant sacrilegious Priest would put away and falsifie by likening this reioycing here spoken of to a glorying in the sinne of th' incestuous as though the Church of Corinth had euer bene so beastlie And by endevouring to separate the elements of the breade and wyne in this Sacrament from their mystical sense the communicantes that receiue the same together from their spirituall communion they haue one with an other the whole Church from the preparation and care they ought to haue both generally and perticularly in administring and receiuing the Sacraments And hauing thus royled the pure fountaynes he confowndeth the sense and distinct doctrines of the Apostle by bringing in certaine instances where the wife seruant passenger vpon some especial dueties and necessities may be occasion eate ordinarie bread with th' excommunicate Whervpon he concludeth that the faithful also may vpon necessitie as if the Church wil not caste out the open wicked and impenitent communicate with them in the supper of the Lorde And if so be these faithful mourne and are grieued for this wilful sacriledge of the Minister and the rest of the Church then they touche not their sinne but the holie thinges of God and are cleare Ezechell 9. because the separation from the wicked cannot alwaies be in bodie as in the cases by him alleadged of eating common breade with them But let this cauiller knowe that there is no comparison much-lesse anie consequence betwixt the eating common breade and the eating of the Supper of the Lorde with the open wicked and impenitent There is no such spiritual mysterie communion or commixture in the first as in the second Common bread is not forbidden the wicked but these holie pledges vtterlie are they ought not to be caste to hogges and dogges Neither are we forbidden al ciuile conversation so absolutelie with them as we are all spirituall communion In the one vve see prouision and exception made for duetie and necessitie In the other there is no such duetie or necessitie neither anie such prouision and exception mentioned in the Scripture vntil these Priestes to defend their port-sale and open sacriledge deuised these shiftes The scripture vtterlie forbiddeth and repulseth the open wicked impenitent from this holie banquet by more then the Cherubins shaking the edge of a sworde So far are the open wicked from being admitted to this feaste as they are to be caste out to be deliuered vnto Sathan so far are they to bee kept from all communion with CHRIST and with his Church But none are to be admitted to this Sacrament but such as outwardly stand in the faith and therby vnto the iudgment of the Church haue fellowship with CHRIST and his members The verie action or Symbole yt self sheweth this communion vvith CHRIST and one vvith an other 1. Corinth 10. 16. and 12. 13. No sophistrie can disioyne the mysterie or signification from the outward elements and action neither the communion from the participation in this action so far as vve may iudge As the vnworthie receiuers are guiltie of the bodie and bloode of the Lorde so the Church in admitting administring vnto and communicating vvith them is guiltie of most high sacriledge and prophanation of the holie thinges of God especially they doing it wilfullie and wittinglie Now then if they all communicate in this action and this action deliuered in this maner be sacriledge how should they not all be guiltie Can anie man here say that anie of the Communicantes in this case toucheth not the sinne but the holie thinges of God vvhen first in this action they are all spirituallie commingled and ioyned together then the verie action vvhich they all doe as they doe it is most highe sacriledge not a touching but an open if not a vvilfull prophanation of the holie thinges of God Can th' aucthoritie of the Church excuse them before God Or vvil it here excuse them to say they cannot doe vvith it because the power of the discipline is not in their handes We haue aboue shewed that euerie member hath interest in the power of the Church And that the power to receiue in and to caste out belongeth to the vvhole Church and not to the Presbiterie or anie perticular member of the Church onlie Neither yet these matters referred to the wil or choise of the Church but rules prescribed thē whom and vvhen to receiue whom and vvhen to caste out As vpon publick profession of faith and obedience with desire of ioyning the Church cannot refuse but must receiue so vpon publicke sinne and obstinacie ioyned to the same the Church must then caste out and cānot retaine without sinne Which sinne becommeth so much the more heynous whē they doe it wittinglie willinglie but most of al whē obstinacie is added whē the Church wil not be admonished neither amēd Though euerie private member cānot excommunicate or reforme the publicke actions of the Church which are donne contrarie to the worde yet euerie priuate member may ought to refraine such publick actions as they see to be contrary to the worde and to admonish the Church c. And in so doing they depart not from the Church neither withdrawe from the Communion so much as preserue the Church the communion Our fellowship must alwaies be in the faith out of the faith we maie haue no communion with man or Angel in knowen sinne They that depart from the faith depart from the Church and breake the cōmuniō We may not followe a multitude or the mighty in euil It behoueth euerie christian that receiueth to knowe what the action is he doeth to knowe what he receiueth and howe he receiueth to knowe by
Ministrie and ministration they are all like to proue as wee haue affirmed them strange false forged antichristian such as belong not vnto and cannot be exercised in anie christian Church and then let Mr. Giffard see whether that grieuous conclusion will follow and fal vpon the men vpon whom the marcke of the Beast is â—ownde that ministrie which is ordayned by proceded from and standeth vnder the throne of these antichristian Bishops In the meane while let vs in a verie few wordes consider of the rest of the ministerie in the Church of England in their order WE would gladly learne of him what office in the Church of God Chancelors and Commissaries may be said to exercise for we confesse that in Christes Testament we neuer read of their names or offices they are strangers there and we in all the worlde knowe not from whence they came or who brought them into the Church if not their Father the Pope or durste there retaine them but these his children successors the Bishopps A lardge power they haue and exercise ouer all parrish Churches their Ministers and Members to keepe a iudiciall Courte to cite coÌ„uent trie punish by muâ— ct iudge imprison absolue purge not only for ecclesiastical causes as the neglect of their ceremonies and trinckets and for not duelie reading and obseruing their iniunctions seruice-booke but also for ciuile causes yea criminatory and iudicial causes such as by the lawe of God deserue death and only belong to the Princes royall aucthoritie to whom therfore God hath committed his sworde Whose iudgment seate aucthoritie for anie priuate person to vsurpe is iudged rebellion both by the lawe of God and of this land For all that take the sworde shall dye in the sworde Math. 26. 52. Againe these Chauncelors and Commissaries are Ciuilians laye men as they cal them not Priestes therfore we meruaile how they came to exercise such an high ministrie ouer and in the Church The same we say of their other delegate ciuile Doctors of their Courtes trayne of Aduocates Proctors Registers c. We finde in the TestameÌ„t of Christ no mention in the Church of Christ no vse of such Offices Officers Courtes to decide their coÌ„trouersies to execute their censures iudgments These handle both ecclesiastical and ciuile causes mixtlie after a most corrupt and litigious maner amongst whom al things are venal in their Courtes c wherof in due place sufficeth it here to finde them in name office and vse counterfeit forged false without mention or warrant in Gods worde such as not Christ but Antichrist deuised brought in As to the persons in their high commission they are of two sortes chieflie ecclesiastical and partlie for countenance and fashion sake ciuile Of the ecclesiastical we haue aboue entreated Neither finde wee that anie ciuile person may exercise anie ecclesiastical office or function as to ouer-see so manie Churches to decide and determine ecclesiastical causes or to execute the censures of the Church as by way of office or by vertue of anie humane commission especially after that vngodlie maner which is in al things so contrarie to the order Christ hath instituted so contrary to the faith power and libertie of Christes Church as were not hard to shewe if we should examine their procedings by the rules of Gods worde And great ruth it is that so noble and honorable personages should be so highly abused by these wicked Bishops The Lorde in mercie shew them their deceipts the error and daunger of their wayes Yet of this gouerning ministrie remayneth the Arch head Deacon of the Church of England to be considered of who is no smale officer of this Church hauing and keeping his solemne iudiciall Court Synode and procedings in such ecclesiastical causes as fal within his consideration with absolute power in his owne name also to cite sommon iudge and punish all such parish Churches with their Parsons and Ministers as fal within his limites To impose taskes vpon Pastors what scriptures to reade priuately euerie daye what to conne by heart and to take accompt of them at his Synodes accordingly This Arch-Deacon also if such be his learning that he can may administer the worde and Sacramentes and haue a benefice or two for neede Howsoeuer he may pleade and boaste of his antiquitie aswell as the Arch-Bishop and of the great cause of his erection and necessarie vse of his office c. Yet seing we finde no mention of his name or vse of his office in all the Testament of CHRIST seing we finde there no such Heade Arch-Deacons with such stately Courtes and absolute iutisdiction and that not ouer many Deacons but manie of their Pastors yea manie whole Churches we must or rather the Lorde hath giuen the same sentence of them that is giuen of their fellowes aboue-said That they are not the ordinance or ministrie of CHRIST but of Antichrist euen the heades and limbes of that Beaste that wilbe held within no limites or boundes in no order or callings but breake corrupt and confounde all lawes boundes order and offices as they luste CHRIST himself is the only heade of all his Ministers whether Pastors Teachers Deacons c and they againe his members of their part The christian Deacon is to attend to the faithful collection and distribution of the benâ—uolence of the Sainctes and not to such Court-keeping ouer the Church ministrie and Sainctes He is to attend in his function to that peculiar flocke wherof he is chosen a Deacon and not in this maner to intrude and incroach vpon manie Churches A christian Deacon is to kepe himself within the boundes of his owne office in sobrietie and not to intermeddle with the Pastors office also with the ministration of the worde and sacramentes yea to exalt himself and vsurpe power and iurisdiction ouer his superiors not only ouer many Pastors but ouer manie whole Churches Thus haue we taken a superficiall veiwe or rather as yt were a sodaine blush of the reigning Ministerie of the Church of England leauing the furder inuestigation and demonstration of the manifold deformities therof to their furder diligence to whom God hath giuen greater knowledge and opportunitie leauing place also vnto Mr. GIFFARD or anie of that false hierarchie to make defence and iustification of these poyntes wherin they are here chardged by the worde of God Which if they can doe then let them be held excused and vs iustly chardged with impudent and wicked sclander In the meane while I haste to the second sort of their Ministrie THe next sorte of the ministrie of the Church of England is the Collegiat or idle Ministrie which may be diuided or rather distinguished because sometimes they are mixed ioyned one man being a master of a College and a Deane a fellowe of a house a Prebend and each of them haue a Parsonage or two for a neede into these two kindes Academical and Cathedral The third sort
sinne or enormitie of the tyme without censure or controlement Nay these men are praysed incited and commended for this as the most faithful and godly which maketh both the sectes as well Reformisâ—es as Poâ—â—ificall yearne praise by this vayne and fight with one accorde for their kingdome against Christes faithful seruaÌ„ts whom they cal Brownistes as against a common enimie yea more bitterly then they doe against anie other enimie heretick or wicked person Onlie here in this tubbe if they can keepe their tongues from speaking against their Lords the Bishops their procedings or against anie publicke â—normitie in the Church or common wealth they maie then ease their stomackes against anie meane person or one Priest against an other and rayle their fill These perticular Congregations haue neither power to reproue their doctrines or to censure their persons be the one neuer so hereticall the other neuer so obstinate and needes then must here be a cleane Church I trowe And now how sincerely and purely these learned Priestes Diuines al the rable of them preach Gods Lawe and Christes Gospel to set downe their seueral defaultes ignoraÌ„ces corruptions and vnfaithfulnes were infinite Let the high opeÌ„ wilful breach of al Gods laws by al degrees suffered and vnreproued declare and witnesse to their faces Let their execrable Idolls and idolatries their abhominable worship innumerable deuises their taking the Lordes name in vayne their common swearing in euerie matter and tryall for euerie cause and triffle yea without anie cause their common open blaspheming and cursing yea transfiging the holy and dreadfull name of God in their anger and miâ—th Their impietie prophannes pride vanitie glottonie excesse idlenes riote playing sporting dauncing c on the Lordes day openly seene suffered vnpunished shew how well they keep and teach the first Table of Gods lawe in the Church of England And for the second let the euil nourture bringing vp of their youth their dissolutenesse irreuerence head strong and incorrigible nature yea their open disobedience contempt of parents and superiours the inordinate walking of all degrees helde within the compasse of no lawes limites callings in the feare and obedience of no person Magistrate Parent Master Let the common quarles frayes foodes tumults blood-shed murder man-slaughter the iarres hatreds contentions debates wrath anger enuying cursing reuiling nicknaming c Let the common and open whoredoms adulteries fornications chambering wantonnes daliance lightnes delicacie and softnes of apparle diet maners to deck prouoke allure their courting intertainement open and secret lust otherwise caled loue most rife as in Sodome Let their open robberies their secret theftes pickings pilferinges their open oppression violence wronge extortion vsurie their vsual deceipt and couen in all bargayning buying selling Let their common customable open and secret lving blaspheming sclandering accusing reproching defaming bringing vp carying and receiuing euil reportes one of an other their false swearing in testimonie their swearing and foreswearing to deceiue euen in euerie triffle And as for couering of wife virgine seruant house land cattle goodes insatiable coueteousnes and greedines heaping and hourding vp treasures contynual purchasing and adding field vnto field yea towne vnto towne till they haue gotten whole countreyes into their possession neuer satiate till their mouth be full of moulde these are the best and only esteemed Christians of the Church of England where coueteousnes is no sinne They that should speake against yt pride intemperance c. should iudge the heart and enter into Gods iudgment seate Let these capital sinnes and transgressions against the lawe of God which are coÌ„mitted without shame or feare either not punished or wrongfully punished murder only excepted which how also yt is wincked at or perdoned I wil not stand vpon let these I say stand vp to the faces of these Priestes Prophets being thus coÌ„monly openly coÌ„mitted in their Church and witnesse how faithfully and sincerely they expounde declare the lawes iudgmentes of God how carefully they watch ouer the soules of men and gouerne the Church that haue not against all or any one of these sinnes any spirituall weapons or ecclesiasticall censure in a readines So that if the Magistrates sworde which yet wanteth an eye to guide it did not represse some sinnes there should be no humane peace as there now is no christian order in their Church And now if I should here stand to diriue the seueral and speciall kindes of sinnes which as riuers are diuided and flowe forth from all these generall heades and as a deluge couer the face of this whole land yt were infinite but what then to diuide those riuers againe into their perticular droppes namely such perticular persons as commit the same yea such and so many perticular tymes as they commit the same who then should nomber them All these sinners and sinnes are in this Church by these Leaches these Prophets healed with the plaister of peace with the bloode and merites of CHRIST though there be neither faith nor repentance they are all good christians Likewise if I should here stand to relate and recite the falshode deceipt and hypocrisie of these Priestes let me here be vnderstoode euen of those best esteamed forewarde learned Preachers commonly called Good men how conningly and craftily they teach the lawe neuer touching or offending their auditorie at leaste the mightie or rich of them be their sinnes neuer so heynous and manifest especially if they will countenance esteeme feaste and heare these Preachers they are in them but infirmities and imperfections be they neuer so deiplie set incurable And againe how sharply they will inveigh against others which thincke not so wel of them especially if they be not of power to doe them hurâ—e nor of will to doe them good howe they wil speake against such sinnes of the second Table as their rich auditorie are not at al or least addict vnto and beate them downe as with thunder from heauen though they suffer as greate in them and their houses beforâ— their face vncontrolled Yea what fine shiftes excuses and veales they will finde out to extenuate excuse or hide the sinnes of these greate rich persons in whose houses all excesse gloâ—onie ryot pride idlenes gaming shalbe but good hospitalitie answearable to their estates honest recreation And this veale of recreation must couer al their heathen sportes within doores and without though it be all the day yea al their life longe though they drawe neuer so many idle beholders or idle assistantes to keepe them companie to followe their dogges hawkes c as their only caling profession Yea go these Esawites their wiues and children neuer so disguisedly in their strange prodigious shapes newe fangled aâ—tires with their infinite deuises curiosities it is but according to their degree sexe age calling with infinite such like Also if I should stand to relate the sondrie shiftes of these Reformist Preachers these sighers for reformation these
out though wee doubt not the Church did it by some one or moe of the Prophets or Elders and vnto the Church at their returne the Apostles declared the successe of their iourney In which iourney also the Apostles ordayning or rather helping the Churches to chose and ordaine Elders the word cheirotonesantes lifting vp handes whereby the whole action of chusing ordeyning is expressed doth clearly giue the propertie and right therof vnto the Churches and not vnto the Apostles only who as also the Euangelistes did but instruct direct help and assist the Church herein and not pluck away this power from the Churches Likewise the rules for the choice and ordination of Ministers in the Epistles to Timothie Titus and other places of y e scripture as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. are not perticularly directed or committed to the coÌ„sistorie of Elders as they cal yt sequestred withdrawen from the Church but vnto the Church consisting of al the members which is therevnto to vse as in all other publicke waighty causes such meet fit instruments as the Lorde affordeth and apoyncteth Neither is this action of approbation and acception or ordination of Ministers so seuered or disioyned from the election as these men dreame Or so tyed to the office or persons of the Elders as the Church might either not ordeyne or not ordeyne without Elders And aswel might y â— Elders take into their hands the elections excommunications c of the Church as the ordinatioÌ„ in this maner Againe if the ordination were thus of necessitie tyed to the handes office of Elders how theÌ„ should the Church after this general defection corruption vnder Antichrist where al the starres were fallen to the earth and the whole shape of the heauen departed away as a booke wrapped vp a new strange ministry brought out of the bottomlesse pit with him as wee reade euer recouer or haue anie true Ministrie againe in this world where should they haue true Elders to ordaine their Ministers In the false and papisticall Church there can be no true Elders or Ministers of Christ The true members of Christ can not be made the members of that Beaste the members of that Harlot The true Ministers of Christ cannot belong vnto neither can administer in the false Church but only belonge vnto and administer in the true stablished Church of Christ. But now in the tyme of this general apostasie and papistical corruption Mr. G. cannot shewe anie where anie true visible established Church vpon earth with the true ministrie gouernment worship sacraments ordinances of Christ howsoeuer in a singular conceipt of his owne he haue pleaded the Church of Rome and her daughters in their deipest apostasie to be in the true Church they and al theirs within the Couenant from antient discent to haue the true seale therof namelie baptisme there giuen vnto them all Yet here not being to be founde anie true christian Ministers or Elders who shal now ordaine their Ministers at their first comming out of popery departing from the Romish Church For nowe we wil transfer the case from our selues who are so odious in Mr. G. his eyes as no good thing wilbe allowed in or to vs vnto themselues When they first came out of poperie were they then Corah his companie an assembly of mutinous prentices Were they not all priuate men Or which of them was otherwise Ordinary or permanent Ministers they could not be because there was no true visible established Church vpon earth and for a thowsand reasons that might be drawen froÌ„ the forgery of their office administration c in y e popish Church Extraordinarie Ministers Apostles or Euangelistes the could not be because as we haue aboue proued they were ceased after y e foundatioÌ„ was once laide and y e work rightly erect according to the true paterne Neither finde we to any one established Church the offices of Apostles or Euangelistes perticularly giueÌ„ belonging or erected in anie of them as a ministri of contynuance Neither had these meÌ„ the caling due to Apostles Euangelistes Nor yet did they chalendge or execute anie such office as appeareth by their writings and profession where they would not haue bene ashamed of y e ministry God had caled them vnto to haue published themselues such as they were But if so be they had donne this yet their practize being so discrepant from the Apostolike paterne worke of the former Euangelistes we might not at any hand accept them for such Thus then at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together they were but priuate men What then were they hereticks schismaticks for departing out of the false church were they coÌ„uenticlers sectories c for assembling together were they vsurpers and intruders without caling mutiners rebels against Princes and abridgers of their power aud withdrawers froÌ„ their obedience allegeaÌ„ce for dissuading the people froÌ„ the false Church the yoke of Antichrist al their detestable idolatrys and enormities for caling them to the communion of Sainctes to procede to the choice of Ministers and to the practize of Christes Testament as the Lorde shoulde reueale vnto them Al this they did or at the least professed endeuored to doe Yet I hope M r. G. that so buildeth their Tombes and garnisheth their sepulches wil not thus say of them howsoeuer he rayle on vs that doe and protest to doe no whit more If they were faithful ChristiaÌ„s such are we holding the same commune faith with them al Sainctes not as yet truly chardged or duly conuinced of any one error contrary to the faith They left the false Church so do we They assembled ioyned together in the faith of Christ so do we or at y e least would doe They were but priuate men and so are we They herein are not iudged to haue offended God or their Prince and why should wee for the same They herein did more then to come out of Babilon They did more then sweepe or repaire the house for they proceeded to the choice ordination of Miâ—â—sters to the building of the house c Or ells Mr. G. by his owne reasons must condemne them the Church and al the ministrie of the land yea of all Europe as wel as vs. IF he alleadge that though they left their popish administration and to administer in the popish Church yet they left not that ministerie they there had Wee answere as we haue answered that they receiued no better ministrie in the false Church then the false Church could did giue them neither could they bring anie better out theÌ„ they there receiued But the true ministerie belongeth not to the false Church neither caÌ„ the false Church ordaine true Ministers Againe whoseuer leaueth the publick administration of his Ministrie forsaketh his Ministrie But they left the publick administratioÌ„ of their ministrie The like argument may be drawen for leauing the
two edged sworde of his mouth to cut downe all sinne The mightie spirituall weapons of his worde to bring in captiuitie euerie thought to the obedience of CHRIST to to the ouerthrowing of all munitious reasonings and sublimitie lifted vp against the knowledge of God and to haue in a readines to reuendge all disobedience To cast sinne into the Epha and the talent of Gods iudgment vpon yt and to remoue yt out of the Church with all power and celeritie with the vvinges of a Storke and the wynde vnder their vvinges and to lift vp the Epha betwixt the heauen and the earth in the eyes of all men CHRIST hath giuen this aucthoritie to his seruantes whom he hath left in his house and hath commanded them all therfore to watche together To obserue and avoide them that cause anie diuisions or offenses contrarie to the doctrine that they haue learned To contende for the maintenance of the whole faith Not to intermit or to be withdrawen from anie part of the same by anie man or Angell for persecution or anie thing that man can doe vnto them euerie where vvarning instructing and exhorting his seruantes not to feare persecution for righteousnes sake to take vp and beare his crosse daylie c Likewise for the neglect of those thinges God reproueth and stirreth vp the Churches To repent and to doe the first workes or ells he wil come against them speedily and remoue their candlestick To repent or ells he wil come against them speedily and fight against them with the sworde of his mouth Commending those Churches that kept that they had the worde of his patience in persecution promising them the Crowne of life if they remaine faithfull vnto the death to make them that ouercome pillers in the Temple of God c. M r. Giffard he is contented that vnder heathen or popish Princes the Church now may reforme or proceed in the practize of the whole will of God but at no hand where the Prince posesseth the faith in the fundamental poinctes though otherwise he erre and mis-leade the whole Churche in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline In these abuses and corruptions euerie priuate man is to keepe a good conscience but none to take publick aucthoritie to reforme Because these Kinges are principal members of the Church c. What cleare conscience any priuate man that yeildeth to these publick seene errors or transgressions Or the whole Church whilest yt wittinglie doth or suffreth these thinges to be donne can keepe we haue aboue shewed in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION How expreslie contrarie this leauened traditionall proposition of M r. G. is to all these Scriptures and doctrines aboue recited is so euident to all men as yt needeth no furder or lardger refutation If God haue committed his whole worde vnto his Church as the foundation of their faith and of euery action they doe commanding them to stand to the death for the maintenance of the whole truth and the holy practize of the same and to cast out in his name and power all that publicklie and obstinatlie hold anie opinion or that so commit anie transgression contrary to his worde If God for the neglect hereof haue menaced to come in iudgment and exhorteth the Churches vpon the first discouerie hereof to speedie repentance Howe can M r. G. persuade the Churche to contynue wittingly in open errors publick transgression or in this estate promise them peace The holie Ghost hath not set downe this as a note of a true Prophet Neither hath God promised anie peace to thē that wittingly contynue in any error or transgression vntil they repent Doth not one deade flie putrifie and cause to stincke the whole oyntment of the Apothecary A litle leauen make sower the whole lumpe Wee would knowe of him therfore whether that diuelish distinction of fundamental errors and transgressions and such errors and transgressions as he holdeth not fundamentall wherebie he turneth away the practize of what part of Gods worde he lusteth and iustifieth or at the least tollerateth what open errors publick transgressions of Gods worde he lusteth will excuse him or anie that wittinglie breake the least of Gods commandements And whether the aucthoritie or christianitie of anie Prince wil in that daye excuse before the Lorde anie man that hath at the Princes commandment committed much more contynued to committ anie transgression without vnfaigned repentance But if the least error be contrarie to true faith the least transgression sinne and no knowen sinne or error to be committed or continued in howe can he persuade the Churche to commit or to contynue in anie error or transgression so highly to tempt and prouoke the Lorde And now to the poynct we would know of him whether anie Prince much-lesse a christian Prince may abrogate the commandement of God or take away that power and aucthoritie that God hath giuen to the Church vnto the worldes end If not but that the commandements of God remaine alwaies the same and the Churche hath the same power vnder a christian magistrate that vnder a heathen why then yt ought not to proceede to the obedience and practize of Gods worde whether in correcting and redressing faultes or in going forewarde in the wayes of God as they are reueiled vnto them as well and freelie vnder a Christian Prince as vnder an heathen Is it because a Christian Princd is the principall and greatest member of the Church why by so much the rather ought and the better may the Church doe it hauing now such a singular help and rare accomplement of so pretious a member Euerie true member is giuen for the help and comfort and not for the hindrance and hurt of the body Wee may then much better conclude that the Church vnder a christian Prince may procede with all freedome in the sincere practize of CHRISTES Gospel because he is a member of CHRIST of the Church then vnder an infidel Prince that is an enimie to CRHIST and to the Church ANother reason he bringeth whie the Churche vnder a christian Prince may not reforme without his licence or vntill hee will because it is the office of a christian Prince to reforme the Church and therfore the Church in taking such a publicke worke vpon them shoulde but vsurpe and encroch vpon his office Because wee are so apt to mis-vnderstand one an other and to take words in too lardge or straight a sense it were good wee set downe what is meant by this reformation here spoken of before we proceede Wee meane then by reformation to reduce all thinges and actions to the true antient and primatiue paterne of Gods worde This we graun to be the office and duetie of the Prince to doe aswel in the Church as in the common Wealth The Princes eye may suffer no transgression of Gods lawe he is to ouersee and see euerie one to doe their dueties in the office
betwene the Donatistes cause ours I would if he would forbeare to conclude me a Donatist for this poinct demaund this question in their cause if their accusation had bene true Namely whether one that hath professed the faith and after so foully apostatat as to accuse his bretheren denie the faith persecute the truth he sometimes professed may without repentance be receiued into the Church againe Then whether though he repent and be receiued he be euer capable of the ministerie or no. Then whether he alone may ordaine an other Minister or no if hee do whether the other be a lawful Minister or no. But in such cases in the Churche I could like well to here some man to perswade to repentance or to cast out the obstinat by due order and neither Augustine nor Angell from heauē to plead for a tolleration of open transgression which pleading for sinne maketh vs suspect the matter verie deeply iustifijng neither Their similitudes the riuer from the fountaine the members the head the stock and the plant in their application wee approue not but hold the doctrine erronious that they thought anie thing could be ordeyned from the person of the man in that sort But your discent from Antichrist and pedegree in that kingedome is an other thing if you would please to conceiue it namely that your office names liuinges entrāce administration c is of the Pope of Satan and that whē his kingdome shalbe abolished your office name entrance Vicarage leitourgie and all shalbe cast with the great milstone vpon them with all such trafique into the bottome of the sea Herevpon it is we say your discent is from the Pope within few degrees being the childrē of these Antichristian Bishops which are the creatures of the Pope who is the eldest sonne of Sathā and his vicar generall vpon earth whose image marke power and life you beare and together with him lyue reigne stand and fall as the branches with the tree for when the power decrees gouernment offices worship c of Antichrist is gone all your ministerie is vanished for euer The Lorde therfore put in her Ma ties heart to extirpate the same and to aduāce CHRISTS lawes ordinances ministerie worship c as he is worthie that euery knee may bowe vnto him But Mr. Giffard affirmeth we shal not be able to proue our accusation of their Ministerie that yt is by discent from Antichrist his reason is ther is no Minister in England by the Pope c. We shal not here need to seek out a Pope in England If hee will learne to distinguish betwene the Popes person and his decrees Canons orders after the Popes orders of priesthood he must be driuen to confesse their whole ministerie office entrance c to be drawen by discent and wee thinck Mr. Giff. will not hang the life and vertue of holy thinges vpon mens persons but vpon the ordinances of God lest he be a Donatist Hee further affirmeth the ministerie of publishing the Gospel delyvering the sacramentes is not the deuise of man but Christs ordinance Do you thinke Mr. Giff. can begg the question to affirme a Ministerie whose office entrance c is of Antichrist doth publish the Gospel Againe that they receiue yt as Christs Ministery when it is from point to point wholly found to be after the orders of Antichrist And when no shift wil help him out he is faine to affirme valiantly that the ministery was not vtterly destroyed in popery for there remained the Sacrament of Baptisme See here how he hath plunged himself into the sea of poperie and ouertumbled y e doctrines of his learned Fathers T. Co. saith from Malachie that the ministerie is not tyed to the succession of mens persons but to the law ordinances and what ministery the Popes is reade Reuel 9. c. You charge her Ma tie verie far to haue cast out y e true ministeri out of the lād for putting our Pope Cardinal shauē crowned Priest Fryer Monke Abbot And if y e Baptisme could not be a true Sacramēt without a lawful Minister then your ministerie being vnlawful ther is no seale w t promise no true church c. Seeing then the holy Ghost hath described that Church to be the Harlot sitting vpon many waters the mother of fornications confused Babel murderesse of the Saintes an holde of vncleane spirits and a cage of euerie vncleane and hatefull birde neither ministerie Sacramentes worship or anie thing remayneth there according to Gods ordinance and at the best you make your self this whole land Scismaticks from the true Church Ministeri Sacramentes if it so stand with the Church of Rome ministeri therof and of necessitie you are al Donatistes by your reasoning though my purpose is not to defend and proue in this discourse but to call a fewe notes to your memorie I will conclude this point that you are driuen to the Popes ministerie for your orders now desiring you to satisfie vs next time concerning the Popes damnable masse or Sacrament of the Altar if they be true Ministers whether the Church cā haue one Sacrament good and in other euil one with promise the other damnable blasphemous and accursed for I take it they cannot be true Ministers at the Font and sacriledgious massmongers at the Altar Weigh these things more cōsideratly before you publish such doctrines in England againe To the Sacramentes THe Donatistes did hold that the Sacramentes or efficacie of them depend vpon the worthines and holynes of the mā that administreth But the Brownistes are not of that minde To this obiection hee verie charitablie answereth that in this great ranke point of donatisme hee can finde no difference at all Let the wordes and meaning of both be skanned and it shall appeare manifestly that they hold the self same thing neither more nor lesse but like euen bretheren or ells Mr. Giffard wil be found a common lyer and sclanderer This mā may not be suspected of anie malitious practise to deface the truth yet is found to make his comparison by his false sclanders and not of anie direct sentence of ours What sinne hee is fallen into that so often dirideth the word bretheren let the godly consider The Donatistes held that if the man being a lawful Minister were a sinner the Sacrament delyuered by him was no true Sacramēt Mr. Giffard confesseth we hold no such thing where is then the consimilitude The Donatistes held that the faith or conscience of the gyuer did giue faith vnto purge make cleane the conscience of the receiuer and so of the contrarie the guyltines which doctrine we holde to be blasphemous it is only y e holy Ghost that worketh faith and purgeth from an euil conscience The Donatistes held that if he which did administer were an open sinner he was no Minister and so no Sacrament We do not hold that euery opē sinne maketh the Minister no Minister seing the high Priest manie times sinned vnder
ROME and yet keepe their gouernment worship therfore the Church of England are Schismamatickes and Donatistes and an other poinct that ther can be no true Sacramentes no true Church vnder a false gouernment And Mr. GIFFARD is yet further out of his way To the Argument of manie Churches HE granting that we herein differ from the Donatistes in that they condemne all Churches in the world we do not will needes notwithstanding haue vs Donatistes in this poinct also For saith he though they shoote not their arrowes at them yet their arrowes strike them their Argumentes vpon consequence will reach so far yea runne thorough the sides of all Churches This we answere you must first cleare your selues of those thinges wherwith you are chardged and pressed and trouble not your self with other mens matters seing you make this but a cloke for your wickendnes to shrowde your self vnder other meÌ„s persons with whome we haue not to deale We vtterly refuse to enter into this controuersie of the estate of other Contries we know the word of God is neere vs thankes be to God by which if your cause be good suffer it to be tryed As for the consequence of our Argumentes they are but your owne collections to passe ouer your owne sinnes and sett the strife betwene vs and other Churches which we wil not be drawen vnto And all men may here behold this sower of wordes and strife maker will counterfeit not only consequence but Argumentes of his owne head to raise quarrell In all which he hath forgotten his promise to compare our writinges and theirs together and flyeth to his owne collection In this part of his stage-play he beginneth thus The Church of ENGLAND is esteemed reuerenced emongst the Churches as a sister and so coÌ„municated with yet they all know what her faultes be in her assemblies in her worship in her ministerie gouernment in asmuch as they are apparant Vnto the first we suppose your worship ministerie Church gouernment are not so apparant vnto them as you gyue out Secondly we doubt yea I may say it is vntrue that they iustifie your ministerie worship or gouernment Thirdly admit they should thus sinne either of ignorance negligence or infirmitie standing otherwise orderly gathered to the practize of CHRISTES ordinances they are not for this sinne till after due convincement and admonition they remaine obstinat to be presently iudged no Churches But what I thinke of their estate you shall here pardon me I wil not intermedle till I be called As for your harmonie of Confessions if it be not the harmonie of the Prophets CHRIST and his Apostles it skilleth nothing vs what coÌ„sent you make Againe it is not an accord in certeine general Articles that can satisfie this matter when in the perticulars you discent to the ouerthrow of al Such an harmonie you may very wel make with your mother Church of ROME and a great deale more large Neither do their Confessions agree with you in the estate of the ministeri Church gouernment nor worship Scotland Geneua France c haue an other ministerie offices choise ordination and ministration an other gouernment worship but it were too large to discusse And now hold to your Argument and see what wil follow The Church of ROME haue the same confession of faith which you call your Apostolick Crede that you haue yea the Lordes prayer as you cal it Athanasius Crede c therfore they and you agreeing in this harmonie of confession are one body one Church Againe these Churches you say hold you the Church of God and you hold the Church of ROME to be the Church of God therfore you are one body al and then you al the Churches Schismatickes from your mother Church If the Church of ENGLAND be Antichristian idolatrous and worship the Beast c then the Churches which perfectly know the same and yet acknowledg her a sister are partakers of her sinne and so to be condemned with her The same Argument we thus returne you If the Church of ROME be Antichristian idolatrous worship the Beast theÌ„ the Church of ENGLAND which perfectly knoweth the same yet acknowledgeth her a sister as Mr. GIFFARD doth say is partaker with her sinnes and so to be condemned with her Al those Churches saith he which know the Church of ENGLAND in this estate do yet reuerence her as a true Church of CHRIST do coÌ„dempne those as heretical Schismatickes which cal yt Antichristian separat themselues from yt We answere that all those Churches he speaketh of do not approue the church of ENGLAND in this estate neither condempne vs in the thinges we withstand therein and receiue it againe thus At the first coÌ„ming out of papacie all the Churches in the world did approue the Church of ROME and condempne those as heretical Schismatickes which caled it AntichristiaÌ„ separated from yt Let Mr. Giffard put to what conclusioÌ„ he wil. I take it Mr. Giff. must now leaue the bare title of Church ministerie c and flee to the proofe of their profession orderly walking by the word of God which if he do not yet do we buyld therevpon as vpon a most sure foundation As to Mr. CALVINE we refer you to his confession of faith printed in the latter end of his owne Catechisme and if he be coÌ„trarie to himself in his other writinges look you vnto it we do not for the holynes of the man iustifie anie of his errours as no man is without neither for his errors reiect any truth he held knowing of the one God hath had mercy as we hope and for the other Gods word approueth it so that we beleiue not any thing because such a man said so but because by the word Spirit we heare CHRIST himself speak And you do greatly abuse his writinges in vsing them after your owne â—ense in his name contrarie to his minde and purpose and by your leaue wrasting them to your owne iudgment deceiuing others therby In his confession he affirmeth ther is no true Sacrament with promise as I do remember but where the Minister hath a lawfull office and outward calling to administer so that all his Argumentes must be vnderstood of such a Church as haue a lawful ministerie in office entrance and administration and cannot be applyed to yours Moreouer he reasoned against the Anabaptistes and such as held an integritie and perfection in the Church and separated for euerie sinne coÌ„mitted without due seeking of redresse And if he erred in these or anie other doctrines we do not therfore hold them presently to be no Church in which he was Minister or which did in like ignorance receiue the said doctrines it is obstinacie in error that only deserueth casting off and that by due order As for most of your places expouÌ„ded by his mouth now receiued by you to maintaine open sinne to coÌ„municate with the open knowne transgressours they are so coÌ„mon
stale that euery infant in the faith can shew you your vanitie if in your owne name you durst propound them Your learned bretheren haue gyuen them ouer as sclender collections you will now reuiue them put them in your owne name ells we haue nothing to say the man being dead whose steppes God giue you grace to follow in that which is good But this is a simple course to iustifie your owne wayes by mens names and writinges when Gods word convinceth you of sinne and wickednes For that place of the Epistle to the Corinth 11. Let a man examin himselfe and so let him eat of that bread drink of that cup yt doth not discharge vs of any dutie to others by admonition due censure for the same God hath said Admonish one another tell thy Brother his fault if he repent forgiue him goe firstâ— reconcile thy self to thy Brother then bring thine offring If anie that is called a Brother be a fornicatour c be not comâ—ingled together with such an onâ— eat not So that our examination must be whether we do follow these rules also and Mr. CALVINE himself saith it is sacriledg for the Pastor to gyue the Sacrament to the opeÌ„ vnworthie What coÌ„munion is ther then betwene him that openly standes vnder the wrath of God the Minister that coÌ„mitteth sacriledge and vs in that banquet We may better reason thus then we are coÌ„manded to examine our selues and so eat therfore I must examine my self also with whome what and howe I do come to receiue But what haue wee to do to reason what is to be done in the Church to the preuenting of Gods wrath and reprofe of sinne when our question is of the vtter forsaking of the false Church with all her wares and stolen waters So that wee conclude al Mr. Calvines Argumentes must be enforced against such as separate themselues from the true Churche otherwise himself and you all shall be found Schismaticks from the Church of Rome As for the Church of Corinth and Churches of â—alatia they were separated from Idolatours orderly gathered established and governed by CHRISTES lawes true Ministerie worship and stood not obstinatly to maintaine and retaine open grosse sinne and to murder the messengers sent early and late to reproue them as you doe So that ther is no comparison to be made betwene you and them for thus the Papist might pleade with you Ther were sinnes and corruptions in the Churches of Corinth and Galatia but it was not lawfull to separate from them therfore it is not lawfull to separate from the Church of Rome wherein stil you see your selues concluded Schismaticks Donatistes But because wee will not intermedle with Calvine nor other Churches Let vs returne againe to your comparison betwene the Donatistes vs from which you are so farr and so long digressed as a man litle regarding wherein hee busieth himself Concerning the Magistracie IN this matter he first termeth vs Donatistes for that we crye out of persecution and of the false Prophets that incence the Magistrates herevnto Wee answere wee complaine not of impatiencie nor yet for revenge only as duty bindeth vs wee seeke to the lawfull Magistrates for some redresse of our miseries which wee wrongfully sustaine and shewe the people the vngodlynes of their woefull guydes or rather wolues and if you had anie grace you would rather be moued with pitie then compare vs to either Schismatickes or hereticks for our iust complaintes But herein our cause differeth from the Donaâ—istes that wee are persecuted by the Clergie which is armed according to the order of their bloodie predecessors with ciuile power together with their popish ecclesiasticall iurisdiction both in one person contrarie to the lawe of God which vnlawfull power they only vsurp to keep CHRIST out of his office suppressing his lawes offices people worship with al force in all vnmercifull crueltie so far as their hornes will reach pushing poore Israel And howsoeuer her Ma â—â—e and her honorable Councill see not their wickednes or suffer them and winke at their doinges which God grant it be not layd to their chardge yet wee finde this Antichristian prelacie both the false accusers and hatefull molestours of Gods children so that the persecution is chieflie by that broode And whether haling vnto and shutting vp in most straite close imprisonment till they haue murdered them without trial whom they get into their clawes neuer loosing their hold till eyther they dye in prison or reuolt from the truth so that manie are made to blaspheme denie the holy wayes of God though their mercilesse tyrannie whether this kind of tyrannising without anie free conference or iudicial proceeding thus pulling the husband from the wife Father from children seruant from master c al from their lawful callings trades be not barbarous persecution let al men consider If we diserue death let vs dye in due execution if banishment banish vs but first by order convince vs of some crime or errour worthie therof if you will cleare your selues Mr. Giffard after this Ismalitish derision of our persecution proceedeth to accuse vs of some doctrines derogatorie to the Princes aucthoritie As first that Princes may not make lawes 2. that wee should hold the Prince ought not to reforme the Church by their authoritie 3. That none of the godlye Kinges of Iuda did compel anie to the Couenant 4. That the people of CHRISTES kingdome be spoutanei c. In al which besides that ther is no comparison betwene the Donatistes and vs in these poinctes hee doth but followe the steppes of that olde peruerter of the truth We wil theÌ„ first shew briefly how we hold this doctrine and how far we are from that hee would insinuate into the Magistrates eares as though we sought to diminish their lawful iurisdiction power or rule For lawes making we hold that Princes are limited by the law of God as he himself in an other place confesseth ought not to proclame any law that hath not warraÌ„t from Gods law either in expresse words or necessary collection from general rules stil keeping within the equitie For reforming we hold that y e Prince ought to supresse all transgressioÌ„ of Gods law and punish al persons without partialitie according to the offence within the Church or without the Church within their owne dominions as wel for the transgression of the first Table as the second and to defend the obseruers therof in al equity and y t whiles we walke in the wayes of God we are not afraid of y t powre but gyue God glorye them due obedience whether they be of the Church or no. To the 4. we hold that none can be receiued into the Church but y t willingly maketh publick confessioÌ„ of his faith for neither may the Church receiue nor they be holden of the Church without this repentance and confession Yet we grant that the Prince may coÌ„mand and compel her subiects to
the hearing of the publick doctrine prayer of y e Church but to enter Couâ—nâ—t or be receiued a member it is to be done by doctrine faith and repentance Neither did the kinges of Iuda compel the Priestes to receiue anie vncircumcised or Idolatours into y e fellowship of the Church Faith is the gift of God wrought by his Spirit word The Prince may coÌ„pel to the meanes therevnto but not enforce faith The Donatistes resisted the Magistrate so far as they durst saith he and wheÌ„ Iulian the Apostata shewed them fauour their circumcellioÌ„s made reuel in companies walking with clubbes staues did spoile beate such as lighted in their hands c The impatient heare of Browâ—istes is not vnknowen c. Let this lawlesse man shewe where euer anie of vs haue resisted the Magistrate or spokeÌ„ euil of the ruler of the people or gone about to reuenge our selues by any violence or vnlawful meanes As for his prophesie what we would be if we had power it layeth open himself to be a malicious false Prophet to incitate the Magistrate with lying dreames Let him better consider and he shal find that this Antichristian Prelacie hath bene not only the procurers but shedders of much innocent blood vsurping ciuile power And how they haue behaued themselues towards their soueraigne Kings Princes let y e Records be searched in your Church are found dayly treasons bloodshed c and most plentifull in your mother Church of Rome This then is but the false report of Sanballat and Tobia to hinder Gods Temple Nowe admiring Mr. Giffards clearing of the Donatistes of errour affirming they differed not from the other Churches in doctrine as also manifest or al least protest our innocencie from these and all other errours in the perticular course handled or els where to be found I will set downe three or fower grosse errours before him which we detest in the Donatistes as That he which or deineth a Minister as it seemeth they allowed ordinatioÌ„ by one maÌ„ is the head of him ordeined yea the fountaine and the other the riuer therfore if the head be holy the other is therby made holy and so on the contrarie if the first be wicked That the conscience of him that gyueth may wash the conscience of him that receiueth That when hee which baptiseth is manifest a good man hee gyueth faith hee is the original the roote the head of him that is by Gods spirit renewed That those which are baptised by a wicked man though in a lawfull office ought to be baptised againe That it is lawfull in some respectes to kill themselues That the Magistrate cannot compel vs to that which is good That we haue free wil after regeneration I wil not now iustifie Mr. Giff. explaining of their mindes whether in these or anie other wee handled I take al in this matter from his record which I hope hee will not affirme to be false As for his learned Fathers how they haue wrasted the scriptures new Testament and old in more then twenty false expositions and flat contradictions of the scope of the whole Canon of the worde to iustifie opeÌ„ iniquitie by slightes and tollerat it in the publicke assemblies with all their doctrines of separating in heart and not in bodye at comon meates and not at holy communion that all nations should be the apparant Church c wee leaue them al denying to enter controuersie with dead men wishing Mr. Giffard to spread such deceites in other mens names no more but to come orderly to some christian triall by the Booke of God In the meane tyme hee seeth wee neither hold of Donatistes nor of Augustine but followe faith in a pure conscience to our knowledge readie to be instructed wherein wee erre And when hee hath made such a lardge discourse to proue vs Anabaptistes Montanistes Arians Pelagians Nicolaitans c we shal in stead of conflicting with a beater of the ayre and vnconscionable sclanderous rayler demand the end and vse of his labours and nowe leaue him to his accompt for his defacing and blaspheming of the truth wishing all men to beware of such methodes of imposture I. G. FINIS A FEWE OBSERVATIONS OF Mr. GIFFARDS LAST CAVILLS ABOVT stinted read prayers and deuised Leitourgies HAving heretofore written an answere to Mr. George Giffards pretended defence of stinted read praiers deuised Leitourgies and since receiued an emptie replie wherin he doth nothing lesse theÌ„ yeild to any sound reason alledged but vngodlily cauilleth at and peruersly wrasteth the sence of so much as he toucheth I seeing no cause of further strife his former convinced to intermedle againe with perticular handling of his chaffe smoke his reasons in effect the same before answered haue only thought it my dutie to illustrate vnto the Readers some few brief poincts abused by him that they may the better be able to iudge of the former writings wherevnto with these few helpes following I refer the trial WHERAS I alledged out of the 8. to the Rom. and out of the 4. to the Galath that in the verie time action of our praiâ—ng to God the spirit of God was the only instructor and the only help no other help mentioned or that can be collected in the Scriptures Mr. GIFFARD hauing granted that reading prayer is not praying doth now answere that how soeuer the Scripture doth extol magnifie outward helpes meanes yet when they are compared with God which worketh all in all by them or when the scripture will set forth the efficacie worke to be his alone they are either not mentioned or els if they be mentioned so cast downe as if they were nothing God buyldeth his Church saith he by the ministerie of men yet Paul is said to plant Apollos to water but God to gyue the encrease 1 Corinth 3. and therfore to gather from those places Rom. 8. Galat. 4. that there neede or may be no outward help or meanes in the verie action and instant of praying is far awrye In which answere it euidently appeareth he is so bent to turne away all truth raise new strife as ther can be no expectation of agreement There is no sequence neither doth the Scripture alledged proue his owne reason so that nothing hangs togeather No man doubteth but that sometimes and in some places of Scripture the outward meanes of begetting and encreasing faith is only recited and sometimes the secret work of Gods spirit only sometimes both when yet they are not diuided but goe together and all of God both inward worke outward meanes though in way of coÌ„parison I neuer so read but rather the one repeated for both For shal I say that wheÌ„ the word of God preaching therof is â—hewed to be the power of God vnto saluation that the inward worke of the Spirit is therfore not mentioned because the other is of God theÌ„ both inward outward meanes being of God Gods owne worke
leaue out the word Apochripha thus Only the Canonical scriptures lyuely voice of Gods owne graces are to be brought into the publick assemblies for doctrine prayer But mens writings or Collections are neither Canonical scripture nor the lyuely voice of Gods graces in such as he hath appointed to speak in y e publick assemblies Therfore no mans writing may be brought into nor imposed vpon the publick assemblies for doctrine and prayer Now where he cauilleth about the perfectnes of the rule absolute perfectnes of the graces it doth not help him For the word of God being of necessitie by the lawe and ordinance of God to be read in our owne language I trust he will not denye yt to be the written word of God for the vnperfectnes of the translatiō being to the best search the Church can make skanned by the original tongue and stil amended or at least the Church no further bound to yt then yt shal be found to be the perfect rule so likewise the lyuely voice of Gods graces are not for the imperfectnes to be excluded being Gods appointed ordinance neither is anie fault in the translation to be allowed and errour in doctrine or prayer are presently to be admonished repented of Mr. Giffard then must denye the Bible translated into our owne language to be the Canonicall Scriptures and denye the lyuely voice of Gods lawfull officers and such as are therevnto called in doctrine and prayer to be the manifestations of the spirit and vtterance of Gods graces for the assemblie or els grant the proposition firme And if hee can put dead mens writinges into the place of either of these I will yeild In the meane time I hold such translations to be the worde of God and by Gods ordinance put into our owne language to all our knowledges retayning y e words of God which word the lyuely vse of Gods owne graces in the mouth of such as he therevnto appointeth are only to be brought into the publicke assemblies for prayer and doctrine for God hath cōmanded these vnto vs as his owne ordināces in his assemblies and no other means wherby either God speaketh vnto vs or his people vnto him in the Congregation To this all the scriptures beare witnesse the word is always firme confirmed with miracles from heauen and cōmended to vs by Christ the Prophetts Apostles to be the foundation Canon light lanterne c the graces of the Spirit gyuen for the interpretatiō prayer doctrine c. CHRIST is ascēded vp into heauen and hath giuen giftes vnto men to serue their tyme minister in their place in this house These graces stil renewed not only in those called of God in this seruice for their dayly administration but newe workmen thrust forth into this haruest as the Lord of the house disposeth which graces of his Spirit are compared to two oliue branches which emptie out of themselues thorow two golden pipes Zacharie 4. 12. And to seuen thunders which vtter their voices that cannot be written Away therfore vvith your patched mass-booke yt may neither stande for a foundatiō in Gods house nor for the lyuely voyces of these thunders you make yt a monstrous Idoll by putting yt in either of these vses yet you will make yt serue for both Wee haue nothing to do with your matters of order as you vnderstand that order for tyme place wee reason of the spirituall action yt self when wee entreat of y e meanes whereby God speaketh to vs and appointeth vs to speake vnto him Wee can cast out the errours in the translation or doctrine or prayer and yet retaine Gods vvorde in our owne language and the liuely voice of his graces in the assemblie When you can do so with your deuises and newe hatched Leitourgies wee will giue eare vnto you and them till then wee thinck of your counterfeit playes and pleas for your Idolls and detestable sacriledge and high prophanation of Gods ordinances with Iannes and Iambres to resist the truth Paraphrases wee hold to be mens writinges and expositions and not the word of God nor the liuely voice of Gods grace of interpretation or prayer therefore to be excluded this place of seruice vnto God Thus you see the further you wrastle the further you make your wares the best of them odious to euerie godly conscience You say I deceiue the simple by gyuing them one crabbe amongst many apples but you may behold your best apples such as the holy Ghost hath foretold vs Reuelations 18. to be entisements to euil It is well you will grant my Propositions so sound and I would wish if such be Gods wil they might be better favoured Nowe because I wil not stand either repeating or contending about Syllogismes I will take this much yeilded of your owne conclusions which is as much in effect as I haue affirmed where you teach me thus to reason No mans writings are the vndoubted truth of God but haue errours and imperfections therfore men cannot further ground vpon them then they be consonant to the Canonicall scriptures Againe The Church is builded vpon the foundation of the Apostles Prophets therfore our faith is not to rest vpō mens writings Wherevpon doth necessarily follow that if mens writings may not be builded vpon nor rested vpon howe should you dreame it lawfull to impose them for lawes vpon the publick assemblies or to haue them there read to beare rule as the wordes of God And this you confessed in an other of your writings that God spake vnto vs out of his vndoubted worde or by his owne word If then God speake not vnto vs by mens writinges that be of priuate interpretation in the assemblie nor that they can be made groundwork to buyld our faith vpon or to rest assured vpon yt will be granted I hope that they are not to be imposed vpon the publick assemblies as lawes and rules but left to euerie mans priuate vse in their libertie as they wil answere for themselues what vse they put them to and whither they doe not prefer them before the booke of God or preiudice themselues by them This first poinct is then plaine That only Gods vndoubted worde is to be imposed brought in and maintayned in the publick assemblies as lawes and rules no other vvritings being authentick or Canonical But here Mr. GIFF. doth in effect affirme that the word of God yt self is not authentick or Canonical except in the Hebrew or Greeke Copie Wherein he goeth a litle beyond the Papists that wil yet allow the vvorde of God in latine And if it shoulde be defended that the vvorde of God vvere not the vvorde yt self that vvee haue in our owne language it wil follow that no mā could haue assurance of faith except he vnderstoode both Hebrew and Greeke yea be able soundly to interpret the scriptures in both If the translations be so far mens vvritings that yt ceaseth generally to be the vvord of God that
against vs euen now as fresh as if he had not rayled enough or all in his writings and booke before But seing his reproches want both profe and truth they deserue neither refutation nor repetition Neither can they preiudize our holie profession or vs or anie way iustifie or excuse him before God or man but rather add to his feareful accompt before God and euidently shew vnto all men by what spirit his heart and pen were guided at the writing of these contumelious answeres Wherein yet most strange it is how he could take occasion to â—ade vs with all this vituperie for propounding these godly articles holy duties especially hauing shewed withall such iust causes of our separation from their assemblies But let vs nowe take a viewe of his reasons wherewith he hath disproued our endeuours in these articles and see whether they be of as great validitie as those wherewith he hath approued their assemblies in the transgressions by vs obiected The articles answeres and our former replie I will not here againe insert referring to the copies aboue HIs cauilling trifling about these wordes CHRISTES Kingdome in his former answeare to our first Article together with his hypocrisie in seeming to labour for CHRISTES gouernment were by vs layde open in our replie as also his vniust surmize that we should hold that CHRISTES Kingdome could not be in anie except they had that his outward ecclesiasticall gouernment was there by vs fullie answered and cleared He nowe in his second answere as vaynely endeuoreth to cleare himself of his former cauilling and hypocrisie by denijing the necessarie sense of his former wordes and by propounding two newe questions vnto vs instead of answering our two questions vnto him which we rather expected Let the indifferent reader iudge whether to all intendement he made not CHRISTES Kingdome only inwarde and his ecclesiasticall gouernment but an help for the preseruation of his inward kingedome in the first parte of his former answeare howsoeuer afterward he vouchsalfed yt to be a part of his Kingedome Vnto his contumelious blasphemous questions we answere That when he shall haue dulie conuinced vs of heresies or schisme to haue condemned a true ministrie to haue falslie accused a true Church then we will confesse our selues to be more then ignorant and rash till then all these reproches shall but followe his other sinnes into Gods sight to hasten his owne iudgment Our questions also whilest they remaine vnanswered and as we thinck vnanswerable must still lay open their bad estate and hypocrisie In that whilest they remaine antichristian Ministers in the false Church And haue so longe continued vnder Antichristes yoke and ecclesiasticall gouernment they cannot be said either to haue or sincerelie to labour for CHRISTS ecclesiasticall gouernment as he and they then pretended And here by the way I must drawe two dangerous positions and in the same obserue great contrarietie in Mr. G. vnto himself First in that they and he pretended to laboure and had so longe sued to Parliamentes for CHRISTES gouernment or discipline they confesse the absence and wante of the same For a fond thing it were to labour and sue for that which alreadie they haue Then if they wante and haue not CHRISTES ecclesiasticall gouernment and receiue an other ecclesiasticall gouernment ouer their Church and ministrie which is not his yt must needes be a false and antichristian gouernment And so they and their whole Church by their owne confession stand vnder Antichristes yoke and gouernment and haue not CHRIST their King to rule ouer them except they can shew that CHRIST doth rule in his Church by Antichrists officers and gouernmeÌ„t which I thinck will be harde to prooue and then are they and their Church in a bad estate As also Mr. G. herein contrarie to himself who erewhile affirmed this present gouernment of these BB s. their hierarchie and Courtes to be the true ecclesiasticall gouernment of Christ. And that they were not antichristian Furder he hath obserued reserued one special poyncte in our replie That the kingdome of God may be in the scattered faithfull which as yet haue not the ecclesiasticall discipline This we graunt neuer denied although Mr. G. whatsoeuer he now say then surmized the contrarie of vs or ells had smale cause so vehemently to haue refuted this opinion But we are content that yt shall now remaine to his vse THe second article of seeking Gods true worship he granteth that al men ought to approue Being demanded in our Replie howe then he coÌ„tinued in idolaâ—rie a Minister of idollatrie prophecied in BAAL and pleaded for BAAL Or howe he could approoue our article and yet condemne vs of schisme and heresie because we forsake their false deuised idolatrous worship and seek to worship God according to his worde To those he answereth that when we haue proued their worship to be idolatrie and that they prophecie in BAAL and pleade for BAAL then he is content that men take vs for no schismatickes or hereticks And this I hope we haue in this treatise donne hauing shewed their worship to be deuised by man idolatrous abhominable their ministrie to be as false diriued from and exercised vnder their BAALS these Bishops And how earnestly Mr. G. hath pleaded for these Baals their throne and all the enormities proceding from the same these his owne bookes shall testifie So that I hope we are now cleared with all men and shal hereafter be spared of him from the odious accusations of schisme and heresie THe 3. 4. and 5. Articles after Mr. G. his diuision tending to one effect and begetting but the same coÌ„mon difficulties may together be handled The chief controuersies about the same are these two 1. Whether these publicke assemblies of their parishes be antichristian Babilonish 2. Then whether the Church consisting but of priuate men may in this estate erect establish amongst them such offices ordinances of CHRIST as he hath instituted to the ministri gouernment of his Church Of the first both Mr. G. I haue now lardgly set downe our mindes so that I leaue yt as fitter for iudgment then anie furder discussing in this place The reasons here repeated 1. How their Churches are from antient discent within the Couenant 2. And how their Church in this estate hath begotten and nourished children vnto God as the Martyres haue bene alreadie often propounded and vrged by him in his book I hope by that time he hath wel considered of the heresies sacrilege and absurdities of the first and of the vayne assumption and litle consequence of the second as they are set downe in our answeres he shal haue litle cause to vse them so often or to vrdge them with such confidence bitterness For when Mr. G. shal prooue that a Nation so highly apostatate fallen from the faith so deiply plunged into such execrable idolatries abhominations hardnes of heart as in the papistical corruptioÌ„ stil
discipline to execute neither belong CHRISTS ordinances to your Antichristian ministerie Babilonish assemblies which we denie to hold the head CHRIST in this their subiection to Antichristes ministerie ordinances worship It is but then your ignorance to make comparison betwene the Donatistes and vs. To the Worship THat the Donatistes did separat themselues from as corrupted a worship as the Brownistes doe Mr. GIFFARD wil stand to affirme Saith he there were prayers oblations for the dead then significatiue ceremonies superstitious signing of themselues with the signe of the Crosse c. To which we answere that Mr. GIFFARD affirmed in the 6. page of his booke that the Donatistes departed disorderly out of the Church condemning yt not for any poinct of doctrine for therein the other Churches they did agree Now here he would make comparison betwene them vs in disalowing the worship But it seemeth Mr. GIFFARD holdeth not anie doctrine to be contayned in the worship which indeed ought to coÌ„teine nothing els and sure it is a strang worship that is not grounded vpon doctrine The second thing in this place we will note is the time of these corruptions in the worship namely as he reckoneth within two hundreth yeares after CHRIST If their worship were then as corrupted as ours is now we merueil how you will defend the platforme of your Church gouernment from that tyme that was so corrupt calling yt the primatiue Church Your fellow Priests Argumentes from the primatiue Church as thy falslie call those times will be of small weight if you make their worship as corrupt as this deriued from Antichrist In the 44 page he graunteth as much of the gouernment that it was then thus corrupt when our tyme-seruers will only cleaue to that paterne and neither he nor they to the Testament of CHRIST Thirdly he hath forgotten his scope Argument He should by his promise haue prooued that the Doâ—â—tistes we were of one iudgment in this poinct and that they made the false worship one principal cause of their separation as we do so that he hath forgotten himself in this place as a man not knowing where to make shew of somthing Next where Mr. GIFFARD grantes that in those assemblies where the worship is idolatrous it is lawfull to separat a mans self he contrary to those expositions of the 2 Corinth 6. and other places to that effect now granteth a separation in body and minde both I will not rebuke him nor charge him of inconstancie because I perceiue him to contradict his holy Pastors of these tymes where he seeth them to erre But he by and by returneth to his vomit againe thus Ther are many great corruptions in the worship before it come to that where certeine fundamental poincts of doctrine are holden the worship cannot be idolatrous but in the deepest defection in poperie ther were certeine fundamentall poincts holden as he faith in an other place wherby they were stil in the Church and vnder the Conenant therfore ther is no idolatrous or blasphemous worship that may in the Papistes Church be separated from Mr. GIFFARD may be a good subiect but sure his groundes of doctrine are popish and pernitious We here demaund of Mr. GIF whither such corruptions errours as he speaketh of might be of the godly that knew them such be offered vp by themselues or communicated with in the Church And Mr. GIF must giue vs leaue to say it cannot be their worship was so corrupt as yours consisting of so manie patched deuises of your learned Popes so long hatched and by so manie heades as haue out of that fordge of Sathans minting howse contriued yt euen out of Antichristes treasurie of deceites As for errours that haue no good foundation we may shew him twentie for one Hitherto then Mr. GIFFARD his bretheren that haue separated from the Church of ROME as they would pretend yet retayning still that worship are bretheren with the Donatistes as he pleaseth to deride that holy name of bretheren To the Ministerie THe Donatistes cried out that the Churches from which they separated had no true Ministers but that they were all false Prophets Iudasses persecutors of the iust generations of vipers because they said they had their ordination from them that were such The Brownistes lift vp their voyces with all their might call vs Baalls Priestes the marked seruantes of Antichrist false Prophets seducers and such lyke because as they say we are ordeyned by Antichristian Bishops therfore we be Donatistes Mr. GIFF. his Argument is denyed Ieremie our Sauiour Christ and diuers of the Prophets against Israell did in this maner pull off the visardes of the false Prophets disclosing their wickednes to y e people were they therfore Donatistes or Schismatickes Calvine all of you cry out against the Popes ministerie at ROME are you therfore Donatistes and Schismatickes The matter then must be considered for which they so called them The Donatistes for no other cause then for that some of them were ordeyned by Iudasses and traytours the Brownistes for that these are ordeyned by Antichristian Bishopps which exercise an other spirituall gouernment then CHRISTS Wherein if you had eyes to see there is no comparison betwene their cause ours First the person that did ordeine satâ— in a lawful office as the Donatistes supposed did also ordeine as they thought in maner according to the rule of the word the partie that was ordeined meete for the ministerie the office to which he was called lawfull the administration wherein he was to administer holy and good for anie thing they sawe The contrarie of all which we finde in your ministerie and the thing wherein you would haue vs likened together was neuer our reason which is the wickednes of the mans person that doth of his sole authoritie ordeine for manie Churches which we neither approoue in the Donatistes or you Our exceptions in this case I say hath neuer bene against the person of your Ordinarie although we might iustly Take next time your matter together and looke whose kingdome you administer in what calling office Leitourgie flock and be ashamed of your comparison by so much as your ministeri is more wicked Again you here put the cause of our casting of the Bishops their traine into the lake to be for that they exercise an other discipline then CHRISTES as though this were some small matter which if you put the word gouernment of the Church you shall finde it the denial of CHRIST to reigne in his kingdome a suppression of at his lawes ordinances euen the whole Testament and erection and practising of an other Let him that readeth consider what state all stand in that remaine in this kingdome erected against Christ and what ministerie the seducers in this foraigne priesthoode exercise of God or of the Deuill for CHRIST hath but one ministerie one Gospell one gouernment ouer his Church Now seeing ther is no comparison