make anie long or large discourse or rehersal as concerning the Originall and offspring of your holy Churche of Rome whose beginning was with moste detestable and heynous murders poysoninges and other suche like meanes and practises neyther yet to dilate vppon the proceading succession or continuance thereof from time to tyme and vntill this present day neyther doo I mynde to remember you of the honour and reuerence which by the collour of your succession you haue wonne therevnto from God vnto whome onely such honor is due But to answeare you in few words the true Church of God began first to decay wheâ— as your Byshoppes of Rome not conteâ—ted with their dioces and their peculiaâ— charge vsurped other mens rightes anâ— interest or when they chalenged aucthoritie aboue their felow Byshoppes Thiâ— was in Phocas time who flew his Maistâ— Mauritius the Emperour and to currâ— fauoure with the Pope yeelded vnto hiâ— that superioritie that he shoulde be calleâ— the vniuersall Byshoppe and heade of thâ— Churche And so saith Platina Bonifaâ— saith he the thirde of that name obtained of Phocas the Emperoure yeâ— not without greate contention that hâ— should be called the heade of the Churche So saieth Sabellicus The Pope Boniface the thirde saith he at his beginning intreated Phocas the Emperoure that the Romaine Church might be the heade of all other Churches and that was graunted vnto the Apostolike Sea not without greate strife the Grecians claiming that honour saying that they ought by Christian pietie to be chiefest in respecte of the Empire whiche long before that time was at Constantinople Yet it appeareth by the writinges of Gregorie the greate that this challenge shoulde rather be a signe of Antichrist then of a true minister of Christ and therefore he writeth vnto Iohn Byshoppe of Constantinople saying It is not my cause but it is Goddes not I onely but the whole Church is troubled because godlie lawes reuerend synodes and the verie commaundementes of our Lord are ouerthrowne by a certaine proude and pontificall name or worde of vniuersalitie And againe he saith Whosoeuer doeth call him selfe an vniuersall Byshoppe is either Antichriste or the forerunner of Antichrist And agayne None of our Romaine Bishoppes euer chaleÌ„ged this name of singularitie none of my predecessors euer agreed to vse this prophane worde we will not receiue this honour though it were offered vnto vs. And to speake the playne trueth euen from this time Goddes true Churche beganne to decay and the superstitions of your Churche of Rome by little and little to increase and as your Churche grewe in wealth and riches so it waxed proude and carelesse as a good writer spake of it Ecclesia peperit diuitias et filia deuorauit matrem Thâ— Church brought forth riches and tâ— daughter deuoured the mother Foâ— euen this same Gregorie who liued sixe hundred yeares and odde after Christ not wtihstanding his owne bookes doe witnesse agaynst him to all posterities yet in his latter age he claymed this name of vniuersalitie though he could neuer attaine it for not onelie he but all before him and manie after him yeelded them selues vnto the Emperours refusing to be called vniuersall byshoppes or heades of the Churche Marcellus Meltiades and Siluester Byshoppes of Rome were in subiection vnto Constantine the Emperour Sirilius in subiection to Theodosius Anno domini 388. Hilarius vnto Iustinian Anno Domini 528. Gregorie the first vnto Mauritius Anno domini 600 Adrian and Leo to Ludouicus Pius Anno domini 830. Sergius vnto Lotharius Anno. 840. Benedict 3. and Iohn 9. vnto Ludouicus the Emperour Sonne of Lotharius Anno domini 856. But some of these byshops with their successoures peeced and patched with certaine superstitious ceremonies your Churche euen vntil â—ildebrandes time otherwise called Gregorie the. 7. at whiche time as it was prophecied long before Antichrist â—d beginne his full raigne Which Hildeâ—ande by a councell of nineteene byshops â—olden at Brixia was condemned for a â—riured person and a Necromancer As for your masse which was and is a more abhominable Idoll then the idoll at Delphos thoughe the Diuell himselfe was worshipped there in personall forme it was seuen hundred yeares in setting together and in framing And transubstantiation the piller of your masse not hatched vntil your Lateran councel beganne which was after Christ 1215. yeares and some euen the chiefest doctoures of your Churche cannot tell whether it be true or false certaine or vncertaine or a verie dreame or no. For Petrus Lumbaâ—â—us rehearseth these doubtes and therevnto he addeth his aunswere Quibusdam ita videtur Quidam dicunt quidam tradunt quidam concedunt alii putauerunt substantiam ibi panis et vini remanere Some men iudge thus Some say thus Some haue written thus some graunt this some other haue thought thus that the verie substance of the breade and wine remaineth still But marke your doctours iudgement and aunswere Si autem queritur qualis sit illa conuersio an formalis an substantialis an alterius generis definire non sufficio Yf a question weare moued what maner of conuersion or chaunge this is whether it be in forme or in substaunce or of some other sort I cannot define You may see your great doctors to be as ignorant and as doubtfull as the rest An other of your doctours saith How the body of Christ is there whether it be by chauÌ„ging of something into it or Christ his body begin to be there to gither with the bread both the substance and the accidents of the breade remaining still without chaunge it is not found expressed in the canon of the bible Beholde your Church Behold your doctours Beholde your vniforme assent and agreement whiche vntruely you so much boast of What time prayers for the dead soules Inuocation to Saintes seruice in an vnknowne and straunge tounge began in your Romish Church it is not much materiall seing they be all expresly â—gainst the worde of god The continuâ—unce of an errour doth not make the erâ—our a truth You may knowe by the scripâ—ures that the soules of such as departe his life in the faith of Christ be with Laâ—arus in Abrahams bosome as Saint â—ohn saith in rest and need not your praiâ—rs Such as end theire life in wickednes â— dye without true repentaunce be in hell â—here as the scripture saith that there is â—o redemption Concerning inuocation â—nd praier which is a parte of gods worâ—hip you robbe God of his due honour if â—ou giue that to anie creature which is â—roper to the creator For God saith by â—is prophet HonoreÌ„ meum alteri non â—abo I will not giue mine honour to â—nie other And againe Call vpon me â—n the day of thy trouble and I wil heare â—hee So likewise our Sauiour Christ â—aith whatsoeuer you shal aske my father â—n my name he shall giue it you And Saint Iohn saith If anie man sinne â—ee haue an
they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in
Church of God by as though Christes Church shoulde bee alwayes knowne and disceened by outwarde offices and functions I haue shewed before at large that the true church of God might be so hiddeÌ„ the tâ—ue religion so suppressed that it might in mans iudgement seeme that god had no church at al or else a very smal Church â–ª yet neuerthelesse God hath from time to time sent some Moses some Elias some Ieremie some Baruch or some one or other to represent his true Church to publish his true law gospel to waken the people from sinne that the world might thereby be without al excuse as I haue named some whiche liued in the time of ignorance which diligently preached the Gospell and reprooued the idolatries of your Church There was moreouer certaine godly preachers in Sueuia in the yeare of our Lorde 1240. which preached against the Pope affirming his authoritie to be vsurped and the doctrine of the Churche of Rome to bee corrupt Arnoldus de noua villa a Spanyarde complained that Sathan had seduced the world by your Church of Rome from the truth of Iesu Christ and said That there ought to be no sacrifice for the deade Which your Churche earnestly mainteineth At Brugis were 36. citezens of Moguntia burned for the doctrine of Christ affirming the Pope to be Antichrist Militius a Bohemian a famous and godlie Preacher inueighed against the Churche of Rome saying That Antichrist was alreadie placed Marcilius Patauius Gulielmus Ockam Iohannes Gandauensis Luitpoldus Andraeas Laudensis Aligerius Gregorius Arminensis Andraeas de castro Buridianus mainteined all the Gospell against the Popes proceedinges Dante 's an Italian writer in his booke called The canticle of Purgatory declareth the Pope to be the whore of Babylon Tauterus a Preacher of Germanie preached against mans merites and Inuocation to Saintes Franciscus Petrarcha about the same time did write an Italian meeter affirming Rome to be the whore of Babylon the schoole and mother of errour the temple of heresie the nest of al trecherie Iohannes de Rupe scissa Anno 1340. did write that Rome was Babilon and the Pope the minister of Antichriste Conradus Hager taught twentie foure yeares togeather the masse to be no sacrifice that monie taken for Masses was verie robberie and sacriledge Iohannes Mountziger Rector of the vniuersitie of Vlme disputed in open schooles against your Popishe doctrine And at the same time Nilus Byshoppe of Thessalonica preached and also wrote a booke against the Pope and the Churche of Rome whiche booke is now extant in English Truely there passed no age since Christ as it appeareth by the histories in which Christes Gospell hath not bene preached by some one or other either priuately in the times of persecution or publikely in the peaceable times and tranquilitie of the Churche when propheciyng of whiche Paule speaketh and other godlie exercises hath beene vsed But howe the true Churche may be knowen it is manifest surely euen in the Scriptures of God in whiche we learne Christ in which we may learn the church by which we may know the difference betwixte the true and false Church S. Chris saith At this time all Christians ought to flee vnto the Scriptures Because since heresies inuaded the Churche there can be no triall of true Christianitie neither can Christians which be willing to know the true faith haue anie refuge sauing the Scriptures Againe he saieth he that coueteth to knowe which is the true Church howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures The Church of God I meane euerie faithfull congregation in the time of peace and quietnesse doth vse preaching Christian and profitable exercises and discipline as Gods name be thanked wee haue at this day especially in all reformed Churches and we haue had since Christes ascention your Churche hath alwaies persecuted the true Churche by fire and faggotte and other exquisite tormentes If I may be so bolde I woulde aske one question of you Whether the true Churche of God did euer from the beginning persecute or that it hath bene persecuted You will I thinke confesse with me that Caine a figure of the malignant church did murder his innocent brother Abell an image of the true Churche that Ismael persecuted Isaac Esawe Iacob Saul Dauid the false Prophetes the true Prophetes the vngodlie Pharisies Christe the Messias the false Apostles the true Apostles the cruell tyrantes in the primitiue Churche the faythfull Christians and to conclude your Romishe Churche the true Churche and professoures of the Gospell And this thing was forewarned by our saâ—iour Christe That in the worlde his churche shoulde haue tribulation that the worlde shoulde reioyce and his children shoulde be sadde that if the false Churche had persecuted the Lorde it shoulde in like manner persecute the seruaunt and that they whiche shoulde persecute the Churche of God shoulde perswade themselues that they do God good seruice Saint Augustine speaking of the persecution in the primitiue Church saith They were bounde they were imprisoned they were beaten they were â—acked they were burned and yet they multiplied And Iustinus Martyr sheweth what he thought of those whiche suffered being yet an Ethnike When saith he I herd that the Christians were accused and reuiled of all men and yet sawe them goe to their death and to all manner terrible and cruell torments quietly and without feare I thought with my selfe it was not possible that suche men shoulde liue in anie wickednesse But to returne to your Churche we may say truely that you neuer had nor vsed in your Churche rightly according to the worde of GOD either preaching prophesiyng or discipline as for prophesying vsed by the Apostles and all other godlie reformed Churches your Church of Rome neuer vsed If you meane by the spirite of prophesiyng which you chalenge as of right to your church the forewarning of thinges to come which office was ceased in the Church then take heede least by your owne confession you bewraye your church to bee that Sinagogue of Sathan of which our Sauiour Christ geueth vs warning that with signes and wonders if it were possible shoulde deceiue the electe You preached very seldom not in time and out of time as Paule admonished his scholler Timothie and when you preached you preached not Christ and his death to bee the onely raunsome for our sinnes but your owne workes and meritorious deedes not Christes Gospell but your Legend of lyes and your vaine and supersticious traditions for whiche you had no warrant in Gods booke The law of God and his true worship was either altogeather abolished or else most wickedly corrupted before the times of king Iosias Helias did also renue the same beeing before his time decaied â—t seemeth in like maÌ„ner that the people of â—e Iewes were fallen from God when â—s they said vnto Ieremy The words that â—ou hast spoken vnto vs in the name of
â—e Lord we will not heare them of thee â—ut we wil doo whatsoeuer thing goeth â—orth of our owne mouth as to burne â—ncense vnto the Queene of heauen and â—o poure our drinke offerings vnto her as we haue doone both we and our fathers our kinges and our princes in the â—itie of Iuda in the streetes of Hierusalem Whereas in deede they woorshipped sacrificed to the Sonne Moone and Starres and committed grosse Idolatrie against god Euen as you haue learned by that idolatrous people and grounded I thinke vppon this place to call the Virgin Mary Queene of heauen and to sing Salue Regina and againe Regina coeli laetare Reioyce O Queene of heauen And euen from this same time wherein Ieremie liued and for the most parte vntill the time of our Sauiour there were false Prophets and men of greate learning which preached idolatrie in steed of Gods lawe yet imagined that they serued God shal we say that these were of Gods church because their religion continued so long a time woulde that excuse them or the Pharisees in pleading that they were the true successors of Moses the children of Abraham and that they taught the Lawe of God when as in deede they had corrupted the Lawe Euen so albeit you boaste neuer so much of succession or that your Church hath continued thus manie hundreâ— or thus many thousand yeeres or that your Churche is the knowne Catholike Church if that you be not able to prooue by the woord of God that your Church is the true Church and the religion and doctrine of your Church is fully and wholy in euery point grounded vppon the Gospell of Christ which you shall neuer be able to doo then you boaste and bragge in vayne The Turke himselfe by this argument of succession and continuance may approue the Alcaron and religion of Mahomet and this to be as true a Churche as yours This reason might the Aegyptians the Persians the Romanes and all Esawes broode haue alleadged for themselues So that to ende this matter it is neither the title or name of a Churche neither the succession of Officers or the continuance of the same or the aucthoritie of anie man that maketh the difference betwixte the true and false Churche but onelie the true worde of God which discetneth them Papist 14 MOreouer let anie Protestant shewe how that can be the piller of truth whiche durst not for a thousande yeares together claime either the preaching of Gods worde or ministring the Sacramentes or woulde vtter her selfe against falshood and superstition Let any man shew that all the giftes of the Spirite and functions of the holie Ghoste haue been taken from her for a thousande yeares together and onely practised for the peoples vse by the adulterous Churche Let it bee declared how the gates of bell haue not preuailed and Christes woordes promise and warrant for her hath not bene voyde and frustrate of a bastarde churche exercising perpetuall idolatrie as they say hath spoyled the true churche of all holie actions and of the whole gouernement and of the whole name of Christianity almost euer since Christes time Let me see therefore howe the onely dareling and spouse of Christe shoulde be neglected so long of him so long let the Aduersarie shewe that the Churche should euer by superstition and falshood committ adulterie or deserue to be deuorced from him or that Christ shoulde euer want his spouse in earth or that he shoulde be either a heade without a bodie or of such an vnknowen and small bodie or that Christ his onelâ—e kingdome should become so contemptable or that his spouse in earth shoulde euer lacke the singuler prerogatiue of Gods spirit Shewe me these things and I recant Answeare 14. COncerning the principal matter comprised in this your demaunde it is sufficientlie answeared before howe that all the Christians in Greece and Asia haue euer refused to agree with your Churche in faith and doctrine that God hath raised vp from time to time since your Churche declined from the true and Apostolike faith some which haue inueighed against your superstitious traditions euen as it is recorded by a learned writer who affirmeth That there hath bene some in euerie age which haue honored and embraced the Gospell but that within the space of these foure hundred yeares the zeale therof hath decaied in manie men And whereas you aske Howe the holie Ghost coulde be kepte so long from this close â—hurche how the gates of hell haue not preâ—ayled against it howe Christes dearling â—ouldâ— be neglected howe Christe shoulde â—e head of suche a Churche as hath either â—o bodie at all or else a very small and â—tle bodie â–ª I answeare that albeit to your â—do â—meaâ— the Churche of God whiche â—s the congregation of the faithful be conâ—mptible and despised yet neuerthelesse â— God 's eyes it is precious The holie Ghost commeth not in visiâ—le forme vnto the children of God as the Owle or Howlet presented himselfe in the â—ytime and stared your Pope Iohn in â—e face when he and his Cleargie were â—t in a general Councell holden at Rome by which occasion the Councel was dissolâ—ed â–ª but he is the comforter which shall â—wayes remaine with the church of God â—hich dwelleth with suche as be faithful â—hich guydeth and ruleth their mindes â—hich doth saÌ„ctifie them inwardly whiche â—pirite doeth breathe his graces where â—e listeth and when he pleaseth And thereâ—ore it is a great fault in you to vtter suche â—ashe iudgement and to propounde suche vayne questions or rather as you seeme to define where Gods spirite remayneth as though you had him in a string or that he should be at your becke and appointment The wordes of Christ be true That Hell gates which is the power of Sathan Antichrist which standeth in crafte and violence shall not preuaile against the Churche of God. For you may burne their bodies racke them in peeces teare them in sunder with wilde Horses boyle them in cauldrons roaste them on spittes broyle them vppon gridyorns stabbe and prodde them in with bodkins or penkniues throwe them vnto wilde beastes or other waies to torment them as your Church oâ— Rome hath vsed the children of God euen this close Churche whiche you so often do skoffe at Neuerthelesse their names are written in the booke of life When yoâ— haue consumed the bodie you haue no further power you haue done all that you caâ— for Christes Churche is Christes darling in deede whom he wil not forsake because he is alwayes faithfull and sure in his promises The mouth of God hath promised them helpe whiche cannot lie Christe iâ— deede is the true andonelie heade of his Churche whiche be the faithfull children â—f God truely called the temple of God â—ecause that GOD is resident in them by â—is holie spirite and these faithfull are the â—tones of the new Ierusalem which is the â—niuersall Churche of God of
the authoritie of the Romaine church and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the authoritie of Gods word An other saith That this is the iudgment of all them that thinke lightly that ground the authhoritie and vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not conrariwise â—lay the foundation of the church in the authoritie of the scriptures There be no coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts of Christ but such only as bee taken so and holden by the Church Therefore the scriptures followe the Church but contrariewise the Church followeth not the Scriptures An other saith That the Apostles haue written certaine things not that their said writings should rule our faith or religion but rather that they should bee vnder and be ruled by our faith the scriptures are dumbe iudges the scriptures are like a nose of waxe I might alledge many authorities out of your owne writers which go about to extoll your church of Rome aboue God and his holy worde â—ut these may perswade all men which be not wilfully blinded how arrogantly and Luciferlike you do preferre your Church both contrarie to the manifest expresse woorde of God and also to the opinion iudgement of the Godly learned fathers whose authorities I haue cited But let the indifferent reader iudge whether our church which groundeth her selfe wholy onely vpon the heauenly Scriptures and submitteth her selfe to the spirit of God as the true interpreter of the same hearkeneth onely vnto the voyce of her Pastor Christ and acknowlegeth him onely to bee her heade according as we are taught by the scriptures be the true Church of God the Catholik Apostolike church or your church of Rome which innketh her selfe equal with god vsurpeth authoritie aboue his most holy woord will not haue Christ but the Pope her heade which wil be iudge in all causes whether Christ will or no which mainteineth no not in one point the Apostolike doctrine and faith but doeth persecute euen vnto death the true professors of the same Whereas you doo aske Howe our Church can be one For that as you say it is deuided into so many sectes I haue shewed before that we doo not disagree now at this day in matters of faith and true religion as your Church of Rome dooth in matters of great weight and importance It hath beene a vulgar and common prouerbe of long time vsed that the Diuell will haue his Chappell nearâ— Gods Church Among the olde Prophets was some one Balaam or other In the small number which accompanied our Sauiour Christ was one Iudas many carnal Capernaites which sought rather their belly then the aduauncement of Gods truth which pretended a zeale and followed Christ yet depended vppon olde customes and ceremoniall traditions and helde other fond opinions Among the true Apostles were false Apostles which though not altogether yet in some parte preached either circumcision or iustification by woorkes repugnant to the doctrine of the true Apostles as you doo Our Sauiour truely prophesied That there shoulde arise false Christes and false Prophets Saint Paule saith yet in an other sence There must be heresies eueÌ„ among you that they which are approoued among you might bee knowne By which he noteth that Gods Church is not onely subiect to striffe and dissention as touching orders and maners but also to heresies as touching doctrine We doo not stand so stifely vppon our reputation but doe confesse that as we are men so we may erre But wee trye our iudgementes and opinions by the touchstone of Gods woord not respecting the person but the doctrine which we allow of so farre as the holy scriptures do approoue the same in which is no errour at all We doe not denie but that there may be amongest vs some carnall fleshly Gospellers some Epicures and Athistes some giuen to mainteine vnprofitable and straunge opinions as there are in your Church of Rome The like there were in the Apostles time some which helde of Paule some of Apollo some of Peter yea some which seemed to haue beene of the number of the faithfull because they occupied a place in the Church of whom the Apostle speaketh saying Babes it is the last time and as you haue hearde that Antichrist shall come euen nowe are there many Antichristes whereby we knowe that it is the last time they went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs. It is manifest that in the primitiue church therewere false brethreÌ„ which were cloaked with the name of Christianitie Arrius that damnable heretik the fauourers of his sect which deny Christ to be God bosted theÌ„selues That they only were Catholikes and called others which mainteined the truth against them sometimes Ambrosians and sometimes Athanasians as you doo call vs nowe Lutherans nowe Caluinists nowe Zwinglians Ebion that Heretike who affirmed Christ to be onely man and saith that the obseruation of the Lawe was very necessarie to saluation would needes be called a Christian All other heretikes which were many in the florishing time of the church as appeareth by the stories bragged that they held the true faith that they were the true Church Shal we therfore coÌ„clude say that the Prophets the Apostles the godly Christians and fathers of the primitiue Church were not of the true Church of God for that in their times there were manie sectes which couered them selues with the cloake collour of true religion Saint Paule forseing through Gods spirite what woulde come gaue this watchworde to the Colosians To beware least that anie shoulde goe about to spoyle them through phylosophie and vaine deceit through the traditions of men acording to the rudimeÌ„ts of the world and not after Christ He also forwarneth the Thessalonians that Antichrist the sonne of perdicion shall sitt as God in the temple of God shewing him selfe to be God. It is wonderfull to see howe you are blinded seing you stumble at a strawe and doe leape ouer a bloke You strain at a gnat and doe swallow a Camel You see a moath in another mans eye and perceiue not the beame which is in your owne eye You are most giltie your selues in that which you would haue to be a notorious crime in others For you agree not in the principall poyntes of religion as I haue noted before but in that you demauÌ„d Whether our Churche was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all nations or gather generall councelles and howe the titles which you set foorth by name can bee applied to our Church I saie that our Church hath and doth enioy such priuiledges and preheminence as is limited vnto hir by the worde of God Neuerthelesse we doe not challenge anie such authoritie to the obedience of all nations vnto our Church but doe pray in the name of Christ vnto the Lorde of Heauen and earth to poure forth the
be more more discouered as in this answere to your questions wil appeare God grauÌ„t you eies to see it hearts to repent Where you demand quest 1. what church it was that coÌ„uerted the churches nations to the faith you seeme to aunswere your owne obiection for you say that that Church was Christes Apostles and a fewe mo who by their preachings and others planted Christian religion c. In the which saying you do wel agree with the Apostle Paule who saith to the Colossians That euen in his time the Gospel was fruitfull in all the worlde Nowe you know that your gorgious synagogue of Rome had not then receiued this gospel but did persecute it many yeres after So then it was the poore perseâ—â—â—ed church that brought the Gospel into Antioch into Rome or whersoeuer it was yet truelie planted vppon the earth Againe where you demaund quest â— what church hath had the custodie of the Scriptures and most safelie hath preserued them The Iewes would most easilie answere the papistes that it is their church For the Iewes haue kept them so warilie so manie aâ— were before Christes coÌ„ming that they durst not alter anie letter or title But if there seemed some cause of alteration by the order of the graÌ„mer rules as somtimes there did both in the auncient writings old printes there was acipher set downe to cause men to consider it â–ª but no man amoÌ„gst them was so bold as to aâ—â—er anie one iotte Such was Gods great prouidence towards vs that the vâ—â—â— â—mies of Christian religion should bee the â—epers preseruers of those bookes wherâ—on our christian religion is grounded so â—at we should always be able by diuine proâ—dence to confute both the Iewes and the â—istes by the same bookes which by diuine â—er haue bin preserued The Iewes more â—ely and religiously the papists through â—rupting some places for their purpose yet â—er permitted so far to corrupt the scripâ—es but that all their errours may easily be â—futed by anie of those textes that they reâ—ed Where you demaund quest 3. why beâ—e ye our church telling you this to bee â—ds word and booke and wil not credit her â—uouching it to be the true and vndoubted â—se of Gods booke The Iewe might aske â—â— and vs also this question but wee that â—ue heard Christ him selfe speake in his â—ting them in our heartes by his holy Spiâ— do answere both Iewes and papists as the â—maritanes did the woman that brought â—em the strst tidings of Christ Nowe wee â—eleeue say they not because of thy sayâ—ngs for we haue heard him our selues â—nd know that this in deed is the Christ â—nd Sauiour of the world wee beleeue â—im because of his owne word This is true faith onely to depend vpon the word of God and neither vpon the interpretation of the Iewe or Papist or any mans else further then he can manifest his sense by some manifest place of the selfe same word The 4 5. quest may easilie be aunswered by that which is alreadie written Againe where you demaund tauntinglie O Papistes where our principal pastour doth sitt in iudgement quest 6. we aunswere that he alwayes hath don so he now sitteth in the heauens doth pronounce sentence against that Antichrist of yours who doeth sit as God in the temple of God vpon earth and he will shortlie come to take a straight accompte of all inferiour pastours who are fellow elders and fellow pastours as Peter affirmeth And vppon the earth he hath made some Prophets some Apostles some Euangelistes some Pastours some Doctours or Teachers as Paule saith but no Popes no principall Pastours to put him selfe forth of that high office The which office if it had bene so necessarie vpon earth as your papistes do make it neither would Christ him selfe neither all his Apostles vtterlie haue forgotten it As for the place that you continuallie demaunde for where shall wee seeke this â—here shall we finde that Your Question â—o small purpose for our maister Christ â—e warneth that in these latter dayes â—ere should be such as should say Loe here â— Christ loe there is Christ as it were bin 〈◊〉 Christ and the grace of his spirituall â—er to a certaine place but he saith beâ—e them not The church the vineyarde of the Lorde and the true religion is neuer 〈◊〉 to place but as the people of anie place â—e growne in open contempt the Lorde 〈◊〉 taken away the Vineard of his church 〈◊〉 the euil husbandmen and giuen it to an other people that would yeelde better â—â—â—es So was the place remoued from Ierâ—â—lem which had so manie promises to â—â—â—oche to Ephesus to the Galatians Coloâ—â—ans Thessalonians and to sundrie places â—â—he earth besides wheresoeuer there 〈◊〉 fewe or manie gathered in the name of Christ Christ was among them Christ â— their principall pastour whose voyce â—e they would heare and thereby were â—wne to his sheepe So became they his â—rch and people though it were but soule one housholde or familie So became they his sheepe and he their Pastour and principall shepheard and Archpastour though in all congregations he had hâ— vndershepheard alwayes who fed the sheepâ— and fought for the lambs against the woluâ— And both these churches and pastours weâ— many times knowne to the true children â— the church when they were vnknowen â— the wicked world For the children of Goâ— who are called the children of wisedome dâ— alwayes take hold of the heauenlie wisdomâ— and haue that marke to knowe one anotheâ— and rest vpon Gods word without any respeâ— of person or place or anie earthlie thing â— the families of Noah Abraham Lot Isâ—ac Iacob c. hauing Gods woord to waâ—rant them cared not for al the world besideâ— whereas all they that depende vpon the ouâ—ward showe of place or persons haue falâ— continually from God and so from the trâ— church as both before Christ at Christs â—ming and since Christs comming it is manâ—fest in the Iewes in the Samaritans in tâ— Turkes and papistes in Agar and Ismael â— all those that chalenge authoritie by the auncientie and eldership without Gods prâ—mise Now we contrariwise depending onâ— vpon Gods word are the children of promâ— â— the manner of Isaac But as then hee â— was borne after the fleshe persecuted â—hat was borne after the spirit euen so â—ow Neuertheles what saith the scripâ— Cast out the bond woman and her â—e Our mother church Sara whiche â—th onely the worde of promise seemeth â— barren desolate and forsaken in the â— but God will not forget his promise â—efore we wil neither aske him of the â—â—or of the time nor of the meanes how â—ll performe it but knowing that hee â— begotten his church by his worde wee â— also that thereby he will nourishe it â—ultiplie it and preserue it for euer â—hall the world rage against it And â— where his worde soundeth wee must â—fâ—r his church And because the Roâ—ynagogue
hath cast away Gods holie â— worshipping images and idols and goâ—horing from God after her owne inâ—ns hath rebelled against the words â— Lord and despised the counsell of the â— high Therefore came the iust iudgeâ— of God vppon her as it did vppon the â—sh church of old Where the Lord saith your iniquities are ye solde and for â—r transgressions is your mother forsaken Againe Pleade with your â—ther pleade with her for shee is not wife neither am I her husband buâ— her take away her fornications c. I make her like a wildernesse and â— her for thirst and I wil haue no pitieâ— on her children for they are childreâ— fornication Loe this is the iudgemeâ— that Romish harlot which hath her dâ—ling in that great citie which ruleth â— the Kings of the earth who hath â— the kings of the earth drunken with cuppe of her fornication who is the â—rie mother of whoredome and of all the hominations of the earth which is druâ— with the bloud of the Saintes and with bloud of the martyrs of Christ who with tenne kings doeth fight against the Laâ— But the Lambe shall ouercome them â— they that be on his side the chosen â— faithful for he is the king of kings and Lord of lords To him be all honour and glorie for euer â— An answeare vnto the â–ª Papist which made this Offer or Challenge Papist CHrist did commit at his departing hence the testimonie of that trueth whiche he 〈◊〉 for the câ—â—uersion of all nations to the beliefe in him â—â—trâ—â— church of God which then stoode â—â—pally and almost onely in the persoâ—â— of â— Apostles and of a fewe moe that by their â—ching and others afterwarde of their â—ng the Christian religion might be planâ—â— all nations coastes and corners of the â—â— Wherefore I aske the Protestant â—t Church that was which conuerted all â—sâ— countries that nowe be Christen to the â—th of Christe and let him shewe me that â—er his Churche conuerted anie people or â—nde in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentiâ—â— or Iudaisme to the true religion of Christ or that this his faith was taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie or anie other Churche but the knowne Catholike Church to haue done this And I recant Answeare TRue it is that Christ did commit the preaching of the Gospell vnto the Apostles and vnto a few moe and gaue them this commaundemeÌ„t That they should go vnto all the world and preach the same Gospel vnto al nations who very painfully executed their office conuerted manie of sundrie countries to the truth Neuerthelesse suche was the rage of the wicked Emperoures Tyrantes of that time that the doctrine of the Gospel was not vniuersally receiued nor generally taught as it appeareth at large by the historie of the Acts of the Apostles as by the assembling of the Apostles in corners by their preaching in the night season in priuat houses Yet we confes that the voice of the Apostles was sounded abroad to al the world so that as Tertullian saith the Parthians the Medians the Elamites the people of Mesopotamia of Armenia c and many other nations and prouinces known vnknowen haue receiued the Gospel of Christ Saint Paule tooke comfort and reioyced in his imprisoment for that there were some euen in Neros court that beganne to geue eare to the Gospell Of the same matter writeth Eusebius that the court of Valerian the Emperour was now become the church of god so he saieth because that some of his familie beleued the truth albeit the Emperour himself was a tyrant Euen in that sense it might haue bene truelie saide that the churche of God was in king Achab his house when wicked Iezabel his wife did most of all persecute Goddes children and when Elias complained that he onelie was left aliue seeing that Obadiah gouernour of Achabs house feared God and fed an hundred Prophetes with the meate whiche came from Iezabels table But for breâ—ities sake I will answeare to youre queâ—ion which seemeth to consist on these two â—ointes First What Church it was which â—onuerted all countries that nowe be Chriâ—ten to the faith of Christe Secondarilie whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie Whosoeuer shall diligently peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or the bookes of the auncient Fathers of the churche they shall easily perceaue with what difficultie Christianitie was embraced sith that the name of Christ was so odious to the Emperour of Rome whose Empire was exceeding large thaâ— whosoeuer professed himselfe to be a Christian was tormented moste cruelly vnto death So that it cannot bee proued that manie nations or countries were wholly christened or receiued the gospel of Christ but in secrete manner vntill the time of Constantine the great which was three hundred yeares after Christ or thereabout For before that time whosoeuer sincerelie preached the Gospell hee was forthwith accused of sedicion of preaching heresie and of new strange doctrine They were charged commonly by the Heathen to bee adulterers against kinde Manquellers Killers of children Churchrobbers most wicked most hurtful the enimies of mankinde guiltie of all kinde of wickednesse Enimies against the Goddes against the Emperoures against the lawes against good order against nature it selfe whatsoeuer mischiefe happened the Ethnikes 〈◊〉 impute it alwayes to the Christians The citie of Athens which had beene the â—â—â—taine of all knowledge was become the sinke of most horrible idolatrie Where Pâ—ule preaching Christ the Philosophers â—â—â—e Epicures and Stoikes resisted him 〈◊〉 saide what will this babler say â–ª Others said he semeth to be a setter forth of strange Gods Others saide may we nâ—t know what this new doctrine wherâ—â— thou spekest is in such rage the Ethniks and Infidels continued against the Christians vntill God of his mercie raised vp that worthie Emperour Constantine who aduaunced mightely the Gospell suppresâ—â—â— the enimies thereof and gaue the truth free passage throughout his dominion and â—mpire In his time all nations were called from Idolatrie Gentilitie and Iudaisme so continued manie hundred yeares vntill the Diuel was let loose and superstiâ—on inuaded the churche so that albeit â—e name of Christianitie remained afterâ—arde vnder the Popes gouernement yet Christes religion was abolished and abanâ—oned It is faith in Iesus Christe and â—he profession of true religion whiche maketh a Christian and not the outward name and therefore suche as were falle away from Christ his Gospell vnto the inuentions of man or suche as were coÌ„uerte onelie in name not being instructed in trâ— doctrine were no more Christians then the shadowe of a man is a man orâ— picture the thing which it doth represenâ— so that it was Nomen sinere Christian iâ— name and not in deede By the Turke aâ— so both the name and profession of a Christian was altogether vanquished Thuâ— much for
this parte You aske moreouer whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie I beseeche you examine well the doctrine of the Protestants and compare it with the doctrine of Christ of the Apostles of the primitiue churche and with the religion set foorth by the godlie writers whiche wrote about the time of Constantine or shortly after And if you can proue that we doe not in al pointes agree with the religion of Christ of the apostles as it is set down in the old and new Testament Choose what translation you will or that we consent not in all thinges concerning faith and the substance of the true doctrine which the auncient fathers as appeareth in their bookes a few erroures by them mainteined onelie excepted then wee will willingly yeelde 〈◊〉 you As for example I will note a fewe capitall pointes of religion because I will not wander in generalities First we confesse with them one waye to â—e iustified and saued by which is by â—â—â— free mercies of God graunted vs by thâ— onely death passioÌ„ of Christ our onely Lord and Sauiour and that faith is the onely meanes and instrument to apprehend this our iustification and saluation That Christ is our Mediator both of redemption and intercession that we ought â—â— pray onely vnto God not to anie Saints â—â— parted and that in the name of Christ and not in the name of anie Angell or â—â—int whatsoeuer To praye for those that be aliue and not for those which bee deade That in the Lordes Supper according to his institution we doo spirituâ—â—ly by faith feed vpon the body of Christ and that Sacrament truely and faithfully receiued as the remembraunce of the â—eath and passion of Christ is a spirituall foode and sustenaunce vnto our soules and a pledge of eternall life to satisfie our consciences We say further that Christ his naturall body fleshe blood and bone is noâ— in the Sacrament vnder the fourme of breade it being onely in heauen on the right hand of God according to the articles of our faith where in body he shall remaine vntill the day of iudgement though Christ our Sauiour as he is God in his diuine nature filleth all places and is with his children powring daily the abundance of his graces vpon them Lastly we say that man hath no free will of himselfe to doo anie good thing no not anie good thought but that it is God that worketh in vs both the will and also the deede according to his good pleasure euen of his free grace If you will either giue eare to the doctrine which we do preach or peruse the bookes which wee haue and doe write you shall see that the Protestantes did neuer vary one ynch from these pointes of true religion which I haue recited But because you make mencion of a knowne catholike Church it behoueth for that an Harlot may haue the countenaunce of an honest woman to distinguish betwixt the true church of God the counterfeit Church and to shew howe they both may be discerned and knowne Wee must needes auouch with the holy spirit of God that the true Church of Christ being the congregation and companie of the faithfull dispersed ouer the face of the whole earth is discerned and knowen by the woord of God For the true Sheepe doo heare the voice of their Pastor Christ Neither is there anie other signe or marke to knowe the Church of God sauing onely the Scriptures of God which are the treasurie of all truth For the citie of the Saintes and houshold of God as the Apostle saith is builded vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe Corner stone So then that is the true Catholike Church consecrated a spirituall Temple 〈◊〉 God which is guided and ruled by the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Therefore the Church of God is called the Spouse of Christ for that shee ought in al â—inges to harken vnto the voyce of the â—idegroome In like manner the church â— as a piller which the Lord God hath â— in the earth amongst men therein so to little his truth that all stormes and Tempests euen the gates of hell and all the fernall powers fighting against it yet shâ— they not preuaile because shee stayeth â— selfe onely vppon the woord of God aâ— thereby stayeth others and therefore a gâ—ly father saith The piller and strength â— the Church is the Gospel and the spiâ— of lyfe Likewise Saint Agustine saâ—ther be certain books of our Lord vnâ— the authoritie whereof ech part agreeth there let vs seeke for the Church therbâ— let vs examine and try our matters An in the same Chapter I will saieth hee haue you to shew me the church not bâ— the doctrines of men but by the woorâ— of God. Saint Chrisostome saith it cannot by any means be known what is the true church but only by the scriptures â–ª what the counterfeit Church is it appereth by the promisses truely euen that Church which consisteth onely in outwarde shewe challenging authoritie ouer the woord and spirit of God prescribing a rule of woorshiping of God by her owne deuise without anie warrant of the woord of GOD which deuiseth other meanes to be saued by then onely Christ which feigneth that her faith can neuer faile notwithstanding â—â—e neuer aspired vnto the true faith of Christ but hath persecuted the same keeping the sonne of righteousnesse as vnder â—â—â—ile or cloud not suffering him to shine in simple mens mindes and hartes by his holye Scriptures which are the keyes of knowledge the very power of God to saluation to as many as beleeue If we caÌ„not vnderstaÌ„d the scriptures the fault is in vs and not in them As no man may coÌ„demne the brightnes of the sonne because his eye is not able to sustaine the clearenes therof so the hardnes of the mistery which we can not sometimes coÌ„passe or perfectly vnderstand in the scriptures ought not to take away froÌ„ vs the vse of the scriptures Now â—â—â—ing you depende much vppon the aunciâ—â—â— doctors fathers I purpose for the satisfying of the reader to knit vp this diffeâ—â—â—ce betwixt the church of God and the counterfeite Synagogue of Sathan with these woords of S. Augustine Whether they haue the church or no let theÌ„ shew â— the Canonicall bookes of the holy â—riptures we must knowe the Church of â—hrist euen as we likewise know Christ â—hich is the head of the church in the caâ—nical scriptures And what can be more â—laine then that which is spoken by the Euangelist Iohn disseuering the tâ—â—â— Church from the false the true Christiaâ— from hipocrices and the faithful ministeâ— and preachers of the Gospell from faâ— prophets and counterfeit teachers in thâ— fewe woordes Hereby shall ye knoâ— the spirit of God euery spirit which câ—fesseth that Iesus Christ is come in thâ— flesh is of
thy heade meaning thâ— woman Which text the Louanistes woulâ— seeme to reforme do put in ipse referring it to Christ You may see into what miseries you woulde bring vs to haue vs to beleue that the Virgin Marie should brusâ— the Serpents head whereas the words are to be vnderstanded of the seede of the woman Likewise in the Epistle vnto the Corinthians your olde translation hath these wordes Omnes quideÌ„ resurgemus â–ª sed non omnes imutabimur Wee shall all rise againe but wee shall not all be changed Which words be vntruely translated for all shall not rise againe because that at Christes comming some shall be founde aliue yet neuerthelesse All must be chaunged and this corruptible flesh must put on corruptioÌ„ But you wil perhaps say that the fault is not in the translation but in the Printer Why then hath your Church suffered the same translation to haue beene printed so often and hath not corrected these faultes Nay why with your Tridentine generall councell precisely say Let no man be so bolde or presume by any manner of colour to refuse the old common translation of the Bible To conclude you persuade the world if you haue authoritie not onely to allowe what translation ye list but also as your owne Canonistes doe auouch that the Pope the heade of your Church can at 〈◊〉 pleasure dispense against the Lawe of God against the Lawe of nature against the Apostles against all the commaundements of the olde and newe Testament That hee is Christes Lieftetenaunt not onely ouer thinges in heauen ouer thinges in earth and ouer things â—â— hell but also ouer the angels both good and badde whereas the true Church of God hath not at any time made her selfe â—â—udge ouer the worde and lawe of God 〈◊〉 alwaies hath vsed subiection vnto the â—â—â—e grounding all her religion and faith â—â—on the same worde And this you must needes confesse vnlesse you will denie a knowen trueth that we whose religion you doe so vehemently withstande haue alwayes perswaded the people not to beleeue vs one iotte further then we bring the woorde of God for our warrant And whereas you further enquire what Church hath had the custodie of the Bible and hath most safely preserued it I must needes say that God of his singuler mercie towardes his Churche by his diuine prouidence hath alwayes preserued his woorde to the comforte of his children as he preserued Elias in the wildernesse Daniel in the Lions denne the three children in the fornace Howe I pray you hath the Byble bene preserued by your Churche sith the whole worlde can testifie howe you haue burned the olde and newe Testament whiche thing is yet freshe in mans memorieâ— Did not Cutbert Tunstall being then Bishop of London cause the newe Testament to be burned at Pawles crosse in London as your Churche learned of Iehoakim king of Iuda who threw the boke which the Prophete Ieremie by Goddes commaundement had indited conteining the wrath of God against Iuda into the fier But you will say the Testamentes were falselie and vntrulie translated and therefore were burned If that had beene the cause it had bene your partes rather to haue disclosed and quoated forth the erroures and to haue amended the faultes Doeth the mother cast away the milke wherewith the children shoulde be nourished for that sometimes motes doe fall into it but rather culleth forth the moates giueth the Milke to the children euen so you ought to haue done What faultes were I beseech you in that translation you neuer noted anie if there had bene as indeede there were none why haue not you set forth a better what doctour of your Churche or fauorer of your Romishe Religion hath written in whose workes can not be found some errour yet we burned them not but are content to giue them the readinge and do reuerence them so farre as they agree with Gods truthe Further if â—n Angell should speake or write we ought not to beleue him Iudge you nowe laying away all affection whether your Church â—â— ours doe better esteme of the Bible or â—â— the better preserue the same Papist SHew me why our common knowen church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion contained in the same Shewe me why she kepte not as trulie and as faithfully the true sense of Gods woorde as she preserued the worde it selfe Shewe me why we shoulde beleeue the Papistes as ye tearme them for the worde it selfe and yet we shoulde beleeue you Protestantes for the meaning of the worde rather than them Shewe me why you beleeued our Churche telling you this to be Gods booke and will not credite her aduouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke and last of all shewe me why you beleeued the elder knowen Churche affirming this to be the word and doe not beleeue her affirming Luther to be an Heretike Shewe me good reason or Scripture for these poyntes and I recant Answeare YF you meane by your common knowen Churche the Churche of Rome as you will easily assent therevnto then your Church is more common than true For triall whereof it is plaine and that by Saint Barnarde that the pastoures of your Churche of Rome keepe not the spouse of God whiche is his Churche but they destroy her They keepe not the flock but they kill and deuoure And one whiche writeth of your Church in that great and solemne assemblie at Constance saieth They did quenche the spirite they did dispise the voice of the prophetes they persecuted Christ in his members and it was altogether a persecuting churche Barnard in an other place likewise crieth out O miserable Rome which in the time of our Elders hast brought foorth the lightes of worthie Fathers but in our dayes hast brought forth the monstruous darkenes shamefull and slanderous to the time to come An other calleth Rome a schoole of errour a temple of heresie And your old friend Thomas Becket whome you haue canonized for a Saint saith Our holy mother of Rome is become an harlot and hath prostituted her self that is hath set her selfe open to euerie man for reward And what neede we goe farre one of your owne nest in the late councell of Trent sheweth his iudgement of your Churche of Rome They haue brought to passe saieth he that godlinesse is turned into hypocrisie and that the sauoure of life is turned into the sauour of death Woulde to GOD they were not gone with one generall consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist from God to Epicure saying with wicked heartes and filthie mouthes there is no god Truth seketh not to be shrouded in corners I haue noted before a fewe places amongst many in which you haue corrupted the text of the Byble You seeme to vrge this matter instantly that your Church hath kept and
auouched truely and faithfully the true sense of the Scripture and doo merueile verie much why wee will not giue credit vnto you I will giue you a taste of a fewe places which your Church hath fouly wrythed Where the Apostles yet so rude that they thought with outward weapons to withstand the enemies doo offer vnto Christ two swoordes Pope Boniface doth expound these words saying behold two swords that is to say the Pope hath the power both of the spiritual sword of the teÌ„poral So they apply corruptly the psalmist thou hast made al things subiect vnto him that is to say to the Pope the catel of the field that is to say men liuing in the earth the fishes of the sea that is to say soules in purgatory the birdes of heaueÌ„ that is to say the soules of the blessed in heaueÌ„ Pope Alexander treading most cruelly vppon the Emperour Frederiks neck abuseth this part of the Psalme Thou shalt walke vppon the Aspe and Basilisk the young Lyon and the Dragon shalt thou treade vnder thy feete What need many testimonies seeing that your church hath wrested the whole booke of the Psames which concerne God the father and his sonne Christ to magnifie the Virgin Mary withall that whereas shee acknowledgeth Christ to be her Sauiour and herselfe to be the handmaide of the Lorde you go about to make her a Goddesse and say that she is fidelissima Dei socia a felow mate with God. As also another of your Cardinals calleth her DominaÌ„ DeaÌ„ nostraÌ„ our Lady and Goddesse Where you say that your Church gaue vs knowledge â—f the holy Byble it is most vntrue for that you hidd the same in an vnknowne tongue and woulde not suffer the vnlearned to haue the vse thereof And albeit you very rashely impute heresie vnto Luther truely all the heresies which euer he maintained he sucked forth out of the nurcerie of your Church and treasury of your Pope Iâ— you knowe anie other in his writings sauing that he defended with you the real presence of Christs body in the Sacrament I would haue you to name it But it is youâ— accustomed wont to call vs heretikes although you be not able to prooue that wâ— defend any one heresie Neuerthelesse wâ— must be content to beare your woordes foâ— so the olde Prophets were charged with â—â—dition and heresie and so Tertullus charged Paule the Apostle beginning his oration with flatterie and ending the samâ— with a manifest vntruth We haue saitâ— he found this man a pestilent fellowe â— mouer of sedition among all the Iewes throughout the worlde and a chiefe maintainer of the sect or heresie of the Nazarets for so the wicked tearmed the true Christian religion as you doe and to answere you fully we say with the Apostle That after the way which you cal heresie so woorship we the liuing God and his sonne Christ beleeuing all thinges which be written in the Lawe the Prophets and the Gospell Papist AGaine what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointment discipline vpon offenders in all degrees and for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and canons ecclesiasticall with excommunication degradation suspension and suche like Proue me this geare to haue proceeded from Protestantes or from anie other Churche then from the Catholike and Irecant Answeare Concerning discipline First you alledge excoÌ„munication the true vse whereof you neuer had in your Church of Rome sichens it firste declined from the auncient Church of Rome Now as a bloudie mother you send out the thunderboltes of excoÌ„munication against all those which reiect your superstitious traditions euen like your grandfathers the Pharisies who in the time of our sauiour Christ did excoÌ„municate all those which did truely conâ—â—â—se Christ and yet thought they pleased â—â—d highly Iohn truely did prophesie of 〈◊〉 Church that she should excoÌ„muniâ—â—â—e and kill all suche as woulde not worship the image of the beast that is â—â—â—eiue the ordinaunces and decrees of the sea of Rome Excommunication wâ— not vsed in the primitiue Church but â— graue offences as appeareth by the Apâ—stle Paule who did excommunicate one â— incest and Himeneus and Alexander â— making shipwracke of the faith of Chriâ— They did not in the primitiue Church â— communicate without the consent of tâ— clergie people which discipline decaâ—ing in Saint Ambrose his time at thâ— least in the church where he was he lamâ—teth in these wordes The olde congregation saith he and the Church following had Seniors without whose counsell nothing was done but I knowe noâ— by what negligence it did grow out oâ— vse vnlesse it were either by the sloth fulnes or rather the pride of the pastors whilest they onely would seeme to haue the preheminence Saint Cyprian disputing this matter at large speaketh after this maner Euer since I was Bishop I determined to doe nothing without theâ— councell of the cleargie and consent of the people But you doe vse this kinde of discipline or rather abuse it priuatly in euery light monie matter but chiefâ—ie against suche as will not embrace your Romishe traditions Iohannes Scotus alias Duns one of your Capitaines who liued about the yeere of our Lorde 1336. complaineth of the abuse of your excommunication and of the Papes keyes sayinâ—â— That excommunication before his time was not vsed but vppon greate and iuste causes and therefore feared but nowe saith he it is broched and published for euerie trifle and therefore groweth in contempt Furthermore you doe neither excommunicate degrade or suspende except it be a verie great chaunce for anie other cause then is aforesaide You haue rules to dispense with your gelding Priestes Si non caste tameÌ„ caute If that thou canst not liue chaste yet play the whoremonger cunningly You degrade some and when you haue taken your Popish robes from them you turne their bodies to ashes by cruell fier But to knitte vp all in fewe wordes our Sauiour Christe did not promise to â—â—ue behinde him a Church which should â—â—ecute suche ecclesiasticall discipline as â—â—u haue prescribed or shoulde alwayes â—â—twardly in great pompe appeare to the â—ewe of the whole world But he calleth â—â—s Churche a little flocke shewing them before hand that in the world They shouâ— weepe and lament and haue tribulatâ—on that the world shoulde reioyce bâ— they shoulde be sadde and that as all thâ— wicked persecuted him the Lord so shouâ— they persecute them his seruauntes dâ— proue this and I recant Papist AND because Christ as Saint Pauâ— saith hath established in his Chuâ—che some Apostles some Preachers some teachers and Doctoures eueâ— till his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is ablâ— to shew and proue the continuance and vsâ— of those functions euer since Christ his time by plaine accompt of orderly succession and is able to name by the hystories of all ages the notable persons of al the
foresaide states in their gouernement and ministerie And if he can proue vnto me that their Churche hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that anie other Churche or congregation besides oures hath alwayes kept that charge and I recant Answeare TRuth it is that Christ gaue some to be Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastoures and teachers but where doe you reade that our Sauiour Christe euer promised all these functions to continue successiuely to the worldes end Shew vnto me anie which was called apostle or prophet after Christ his Apostles Saint Paule the blessed Apostle maketh mentioÌ„ of false Apostles which alwaies withstood the doctrine of the Gospell maintained the ceremonies of the Lawe and the inuentions of their owne braine and set them selues opposite vnto the true Apostles and if you will claime your succession from them I will easily agree vnto you There hath bene Preachers and teachers at all times saue onely when they haue bene kept vnder by your tyrannie which haue preached Gods truth and reproued your grosse Idolatrie whom your Church hath alwaies persecuted vnto death and euen vntill this time there hath bene and are Christians in Graecia and Asia which haue euerâ—â—â—e and doe yet vtterly detest the Pope the head of your Church with all your deâ—â—â—s and traditions But shewe mee in one place I pray you of the Scripture where euer Christ promised anie such succession to continue in all ages Yâ— were so that the truth of Gods worde â— the functions in Gods Church should â—ceed alwaies by ordinary succession tâ— you had a good foundation to builde yâ— succession vpon Then Christ our Sauiâ— by right should not haue controuled â— Scribes and Pharesies which satâ— Moses chaire which bragged of succeâ—on as well as you doe saying We are the seed of AbrahaÌ„ we are the disciplâ— of Moses vnto vs God hath made â— promisses as for Christ we knowe nâ— from whence he came And therefâ— they asked Christ By what power he dâ— such thinges who gaue him that auâ—thoritie and so they might very well haâ— said in respect of their outward successioâ— For so Annas and Caiphas were Bysâ—ops aswell as Aaron But that warniâ— and admonicion which Saint Paule gaâ— vnto the congregation of Ephesus toucâ—ing succession might satisfie you I know this saith he that after my departingeâ— there shal greuous Woolues enter in amoung you not sparing the flocke moreouer of your owne selues shall mâ— arise speaking peruerse thinges And againe he saith That true faith cometh not by succession but by hearing not the Bishoppe of Rome but the worde God. Yf Christ had appoynted anie such succession would he haue forewarned vs that desolation of abhomination should sit â—â—â—he holy place and that Antichrist should â—â—â—rude him selfe into the roome of Christ If you looke well about you you haue no cause to glory in succession for that by your writers sufficient is spoken to discredit your succession for one saith That many Popes haue fallen into heresies that Hildebrand in whose time defection froÌ„ the faith tooke place was charged by a generall councell to be an adulterer a Churchrobber a periured person a maâ—queller a sorcerer and an apostata Another calleth the Popes monsters and 〈◊〉 shapen creatures If your heade and chiefe of your Church be such what shall we iudge of the rest I wil take for proofe of your succession euen the confessioÌ„ of Pope â—drian the fourth Succedimus non Peâ—â—â—o in pascendo sed Romulo in parriciâ—â—â—o We succeede saith he not Peter in â—â—â—eding but Romulus in killing To be â—â—â—t what auaileth the succession of your Church vnlesse you coulde prooue that she hath alwayes mainteined the doctrine of Christ For Saint Augustine saith Thaâ— many doo giue the outward marke of a Byshop to wolues and be wolues them selues That the truth of Gods woord maâ— be the touchstone of lawfull succession giuâ— eare to the godly councell of a learned father It becommeth vs saith he to obeâ— those Priestes in the Church which hauâ— their succession from the Apostles anâ— together with the succession of their Bishoprikes according to the good wil oâ— God the father haue receiued the vndoubted gift of the truth An other being pressed with the like succession saith If any of my predecessors haue not obserued and kept the same that our Lorâ— hath taught vs both by his example anâ— also by his commaundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doâ— the like can hope for no pardon beinâ— now admonished and instructed of ouâ— Lord. And comparing all other Churcheâ— with the primatiue â—hurch the same fathâ— saith If the pipes of the conduit whicâ— before ran with abundance happen â— faile do we not vse to search to the heaâ— The Pristes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth haue fainted or failed in any point we returne to the original of our Lord and to the tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that thence wee may take the discretion of our dooings from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus muche concerning the succession of your Church hauing no warrant by Gods woorde Papist 6. AND for the necessarie vse and execution of the foresaide offices they must further bee asked what sacraments the ProtestaÌ„ts ministred for the space of a M. yeares together in which they confesse their congregation to haue beene neare or wholly hidde what correction or discipline they kept for offendors to whom they did preache their heresies Where did 〈◊〉 principall pastor sitte in iudgement â—â—â—re did they gather as in a councell â—â—â—ye the trueth in doubtfull matters Hâ—â—e might Christian men iustelie ofâ—â—â—d with some of their Bretheren haue sought out your officers or congregation to make complaint of him or how if it lacked any man to haue beene baptized of them or to haue receiued the communion of them or haue ioyned them selues in faith and religion vnto them How might I say that coâ—temptible and vnknowne companie haâ— beene found out in this case If therefoâ— you can shewe me that euer anie man sougâ— iustice or knowledge of truth sacramentâ— faith or anie helpe of saluation at the Proâ—stants secret and close Church or anie othâ— where else but of Gods knowne Catholâ— Church And I recant Aunsweare 6. TOuching Sacramentes we finâ— two appoynted expresly by the worâ— of God namely Baptisme and the Lorâ— Supper The one doeth signifie our neâ— birth and regeneration that as by watâ— the filthe of the body is washed cleane through faith in the bloud of Christ oâ— soules are clensed from all sinne and wâ— are incorporat and ingraffed into the bâ— of Christ and made members of his boâ— of which he is the onely head the other doâ— put vs in remembraunce that Christ Iâ—sus is our spiritual foode and sustenaunâ— that he is the celestial Manna which came downe from Heauen and
we faithfully râ—ceiuing the visible and externall signes according to Christ his institution in remembraunce of his death and passion spirituaâ—ly doe feed vpon the body of Christ aâ—â— receiue the fruites of his death euen remission of our sinnes Other sacramentes we haue no warrant for in the worde of god These sacramentes were onely vsed by Christ and his Apostles and by all their true successours The sacramentes in the olde Testament vnto which anie promise was annexed were these two onely that is circumcision and the Passouer which doe rightly and aptly represent 〈◊〉 two sacramentes set forth in the newe â—â—â—ament as Baptisme and the Lordes â—â—â—er which haue bene vsed alwaies â—â—â—e true Church euer since Christ and â—â—â—ued of the auncient Fathers as the onely knowne sacramentes appoynted by â—â—â—rist So Augustine affirmeth That 〈◊〉 Lord the Apostles deliuered vnto â—â—â—ewe sacraments in steede of manie 〈◊〉 the same to be most easie in doing â—â—â—st reuerend in vnderstandinge and in â—â—â—eruation most pure to wit the sacrameÌ„ts of Baptisme the celebratioÌ„ of thâ— sacrament of the body and blood of ouâ— Lorde Likewise another sayth The sacramentes of Christ in the catholikâ— Church are Baptisme and the bodâ— and bloude of our Lorde Which sacramentes also and all the principle poynte of our true religion Constantine the Christian and godly Emperour and alâ— his noble successours mightely defended and set forth the same The same Constantine was christened not by the Pope buâ— by Eusebius Bishop of Nicomedia noâ— in a corner but in the presence of many other not popishe but Christian Bishopes Hee ouercame Licinium his sisters husbande who persecuted the Christians The same Constantine summoned a councell at Nice against that blasphemous heritike Arrius And as the historie saith the Emperour before named wrote vnto all the rulers of the Churches that they shoulde be at Nice by a day to the Bishop of the Apostolicke sea to Macarius Bishope of Hierusalem and to Iulius the bishope of Rome In that flourishing time liued sundry godly writers whose bookes nowe extant doe shewe that they embracced the same faith and religion which we at this day do professe touching the Sacramentes iustification by faith onely inuocation to God alone saluation onely by Christ and all other chiefe poyntes of doctrine whose workes if your Romish Church had kept inuiolable and had not corrupted as you did in like manner with the Canonicall books of the Bible you might haue learned a difference betwixt trueth and errour And if you would yet hearken to the doctrine which they doe deliuer they will teach you that your Romish church is a cage of vncleane birdes and that your religion is mingled with all heresies though you charge others with the same fault and that you haue no true discipline but rather crueltie no principall pastor sauing Antichrist no officers but Blood-suckers and no Churche in deede but the Sinagogue of Sathan that cruell mother whiche will needes haue the Childe to be cutte in peeces which spareth no Sexe or kinde no Infant though it bee in the mothers belly no hoare heade nor aged person finally your church hath no truth but falshood and iâ— wholly imbamed with the heresies of aâ— ages You take parte with the Iewes anâ— Pagans you care not with whome yoâ— shake handes so it be not with Christ or his holy Gospell vnto which you doo beare â— deadly hate And yet you stand vpon youâ— reputation and would haue men to beleeuâ— you whatsoeuer you speake Whereas you call our Church A contemptible vnknowne close and secret company at thiâ— day the Lord be thanked the greater partâ— of Europe besides the countries I spakâ— of before doo ioyne together with vs iâ— one truth of doctrine I would haue yoâ— to prooue by the worde of God for youâ— wordes bee no warrant to auenturâ— our soules vppon your Romish Church to bee the auncient and true Catholike Church and to professe the same faith and doctrine truely which Christ his Apostles left behinde them and that which was in the time of those godly Emperours of Rome and a long tyme after or that Christ did promise to leaue such a Church as should haue onâ— generall and chiefe Pastor to sit in iudgement to punish offendors and to call a generall councell to try the truth or else we cannot ioyne with you against God and against his sonne Christ For we acknowledge no other principall Pastor but Christ Iesus whom the heauens must conteine vntill the time that all thinges be restored which God hath spokeÌ„ by the mouth of al his holy prophets since the world began who neuerthelesse is euer present with his Church Papist 7 AGaine I require of the Protestant to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelyhod when the true church as they account theirs to be decaied or in what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and preuailed Whether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none would preach against it euen at the tyâ—e when it first entred Whether all nations sodeinly and in one yeare were mooued vnto the doctrine of the Papistes no one man of all their true â—hurch either preaching teaching wriâ—â—â—g nor attempting any thing against it â— making mention of it Whether all â—â—â—kes of seruice were altered Whether 〈◊〉 a moment the masse was sayed in steede of their Apostolike communion Whether sodenly men began to pray for soules departed sodenly required the helpe of Saintes in heauen sodeinly the tongue of common praier was altered Tell me in what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope vppon what occasion this merueilous mutation was made by whome all these thinges were wrought who preached against it what storie maketh mention of it who of al your Pastoures preached against it Was Goddes Churche so voyde of the spirite of truth and strength that euen then when it most flourished it had none that durste open his mouth agaynst suche corruption of religion at the firste entering in of it and when it mighte soone haue beene repressed If it coulde not haue bene stayde tell me in what yeare of our Lorde this mutation was made and who of the true Preachers withstode our doctrine and yf wee note you not by the names euerye one of your captaines and the seuerall errours whiche they taught and the time and yeare when they rose against the receiued truth and the councels wherein they were orderly condemned If I say this canne bee doone on your side towards vs and wee do it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recante And for that purpose because the gouernement of the Bishoppes of Rome is moste misliked of them And yet moste notoriously knowne by euery Historie let them note the Pope that first brake of the course of his forefathers beliefe and Regiment in anie Articles of faith or necessarie Christian vsage And I recant Answeare 7. MY meaning is not to
other mens writing and so would I haue others vnderstand myne It is most true that Origem Ambrose Augustine Hierom the other fathers of the Church haue their seuerall errors one doth write against an other most vehemently What maruell is it that these did differ seing that â—he Apostles theÌ„ selues could not agree alwayes in all pointes Paule did withstand Peter in the face before all men Platina one of your owne storie writers affirmeth that the Popes them selues whom you brage so much of did repugne one an others decrees The next Pope saith he either breaketh or vtterly repealeth his predecessors decrees For these little petie Popes had no other studie to occupie them selues with all but only to deface the name of the former Popes of which church were not only these Popes but also your owne scholemen pillers of your religion How came it to passe that these thinges were vttered in your owne boks Barnardus non vidit omnia Barnarde did not see all things Hic magister non tenetur Here one maister is not to bee receiued Thomas Aquine saith that we are not boÌ„nd vpon the necessitie of saluatioÌ„ to beleue not only the Doctours of the Churche as Hierom. August â–ª but also neither the church it selfe sauing only matters concerning the substaunce of faith But lett all mens aucthoritie passe and receiue that remaining in eight Persons the which which the holy Apostle wriceth Whosoeuer bringeth not the Doctrine of the Gospell receiue them not And againe If wee or an Angell from heauen doe preach any other doctrine theÌ„ you haue receiued hold him accursed To conclud we ought not to leane either to this man or that to the right hand or to the left to this church or that church in any thing whatsoeuer further then the truth of Gods word doth direct vs Neither doeth our saluation depend vppon anie earthly man but we ascribe it wholy to our lord sauiour Christ by whose stripes onely we are healed Papist 11 MOreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in the time on which they hold the true Church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the catholik Church was bound to goe from the church which they sawe and which taught them both that article all other things touching their faith by which they were christened receiued al other sacramentes commodities of saluation And whether they were bound to seeke for this vnknowne closse congregation which they could neither come vnto nor by â—hich they neuer receaued any benefit nor â—ould receiue any so forsake the church â—y whome and in whome they receiued both â—heir faith sacraments Shew me therfore â—hat the Christian men of those dates were charged to beleue any other church or seke for any other church theÌ„ that which taught them the articles of the church and baptized them And I recant Answeare 11 YOu further demauÌ„d Whether the people when the Church was hid were bound to goe from the church which they sawe seeke the vnknowne church beleue the same If you will vouchsafe to peruse that which I haue noted heretofore which is also confirmed by sundrie learned authorities viz. that the true church of God is to be sought for to be found only by the scripturs which are the foundations of the same church you may be satisfied heerein that the people ought to stay them selues vpon the scriptures not to beleue any further then Gods word leadeth theÌ„ The true church of God is not alwayes most apparant in earth or consistinge of the greatest number This appeareth by Noah in setting him selfe against all the worlde the true Church onely excepted then were saued in the arke and all the worlde else drowned Was not Lot his small familie the true Church of God deliuered by the Angells and the fiue whole citties destroyed â–ª where was the Church in the time of Elias when he complained most bitterly and said I haue bene verie ielous for the Lord God of hoastes For the children of Israel haue forsaken the couenant broken downe the altars slaine thy Prophetes with the swoord I only am lefte and they seeke my life to take it away Where was the Church when Esay the Prophet cried out How is the faithfull cittie become an harlot it was full of iudgement iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers their siluer is become drosse their wine is mixed with water their Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues Where was the Church when Dauid the Prophet did breake for the into theise words there is not one that doeth good no not one If there were any Church of God in these times in which these Propheâ—es liued no doubt it was in verie fewe or els hid altogether otherwise they would not so greeuouslie haue complained of the want thereof And yet there was in all â—ese times a Church in outwarde forme â—ewe to the iudgment of man supposed to â— the true Church where the Iewes the â—â—e Church at what time they bosted most â— the outwarde beautie of their Church â—ying We are the temple of the Lord or â—hen they sayd wee are the children of God whereas euen at that time they went â— whoring after their owne inuentions But as the Scribes Pharisies vaunted â—em selues that they were the true Church â—f God the Disciples of Moses the sonnes â—f Abraham where as in deede by the teâ—â—imonie of our sauiour Christ they worâ—â—ipped God in vaine teachinge the preâ—eptes and doctrines of men and erred for â—hat they knowe not the scriptures were â—ypocrites dissemblers deuouring wiâ—owes houses vnder a colour of longe praiâ—r euen so you with your Church of Rome â—hough you bragge neuer so much of your â—uccession and aucthoritie the holy ghost â—lainly sheweth that your Babilon shall â—aue a fal Our sauiour Christ telleth both â—ou the pharisees that you haue made through your own deuises the temple of God adenn of theues Triumph neuer so much that you are the catholike church â–ª that you are in the arke of Noah you are none of Gods neither shall be till you renounce abolish your vaine ceremonies â— false worshipping of God other thinges which you do contrarie to his holy wordeâ— The true church of God is coÌ„pared to the Moone which sometimes is full clere aâ— bright sometimes in the Eclips is wan â— darke so the church of God is now great now small now calme and in quietnesse nowe subiect to tempests and troubles nowe in many nowe in fewe And therefore you are greatlie deceiued in that you do thinke the Church vtterly extinguished wheÌ„ it appeareth not at your pleasure Thus you may learne by sundrie writers that God hath had wil haue alwaies his church whether it be more or lesse One which hath written the Forte of
the which â—uilding Christe is the chiefe corner stone â—hough you haue taught the people of God â—therwise affirming the Pope to be head â—f Gods Churche and to be of equiualent â—ucthoritie with Christ One of your scholeâ—octors saith That Christe and the Pope â—ake one consistorie and sinne onely â—xcepted the Pope can doe whatsoeuer God himselfe can doe And euen as you â—eale with Christe for the preheminence â—nd rule so you will appointe him a body â—r no bodie or alter or chaunge his bodie â—s you liste You cannot limit GOD â—is Church for his Church is in manie or â—ewe as his heauenlie wisedome appoyneth And therfore Christ saith That whenâ—oeuer two or three are gathered togeaâ—her in my name I am in the middest of â—hem And as one doth say as is before â—lledged Although there were but two â—en remayning in the worlde yet in â—hem two the Churche of God which â—s the vnitie of the faithfull shoulde bee saued Therefore though man be ignorant whome God hath elected vnto saluation and who be of Christ his bodie yet God who vnderstandeth all secretes doeth knowe who are his And euerie member of Christ hath the spirite of God to assure his conscience that he is the childe of god God graunt you that inwarde testimonie and the comfort of the same spirit grounded vpon the Gospell which they doe feele in themselues Then will you neuer be so carefull for these outwarde shewes Papist 15 SHew me that the church which ought to be a Christian mans stay in troubles â–ª and tempests of doctrine might become so hidden or so close that no man could finde her or so hartlesse that she coulde succour no man nor instruct anie man in hâ— doubte of conscience or distresse in faith Proue me that there may be such a decay â— Goddes spirit truth and churche And I recant Answeare 15 IT seemeth that you are harping alwaieâ— vppon one string but if you woulde dilâ—gently waie with your selfe the frailtie man who is dailie slipping away from dâ—tifull obedience towardes God and consider what bridles and bittes God hath ordained to pull him backe from the libertie of sinne to preserue him from daungers You shal finde other staies to grounde maÌ„s faith and settle his coÌ„science then anie such outwarde shewe of a visible Church as you imagin The ground worke and foundation of faith and the staie and buttresse of mans conscience are the holie scriptures which Dauid the blessed Prophet calleth the Mountaines vnto which the faithful shoulde lift vp their eyes which are the onely comforte to theÌ„ in their troubles Christ exhorteth vs To searche the scriptures for they do beare witnes of him who is our peace our iustification our sanctification our redemptioÌ„ The Apostle assureth vs That the scriptures are the power of god vnto saluatioÌ„ to as many as beleeue whether they be Iewes or Gentils What need we any further proofe to teach vs that faith is staied vpoÌ„ the scriptures then that which is spoken by Paule the Apostle â–ª Faith saith he commeth of hearing and hearing by the worde of God. Howe shall we knowe God â–ª Howe shall we knowe Christ How shal we know Gods spirit howe shall wee discerne true faith from a fonde opinion but onely by the scriptures Faith as Saint Augustine affirmeth doth stagger if the aucthority of gods scriptures do faile True faith true knowledge and a right conscience are grounded vpon the worde of god Constantine that worthie Emperour spake openly in the Nicene Councel to the like effecte The writinges saith he of the Euangelistes and Apostles and the oracles of the auncient Prophets do instruct vs plainely what we ought to vnderstande and beleue of Gods will and pleasure and therfore all contention set aparte let vs seeke the solution of those thinges which bee propounded out of the scriptures of God which by the testimonie of the holy Ghost be able to instruct vnto all good workes The doctrine of the scriptures teacheth especiallie these foure principles Knowledge Faith Godlines Iustice true brauÌ„ches of a christian mans life It is the parte of euerie Christian to learne to knowe God the Creatour and maker of all thinges to knowe Christ the the redemer of mankinde to knowe the holie Ghost the spirit of sanctificatioÌ„ what benefits he hath ond doth receiue by these â—hree persons vnited in one Godhead which â—noweledge the wise man calleth Perfect righteousnes and the roote of immoralitie Also our Sauiour Christ saith That â—his is eternall life that they know thee â—he onely true GOD and Iesus Christ whom thou hast sent Man created according to gods Image may not be like the Horse Mule in whom there is no vnderstanding or to bee such as God by the Prophet complaineth vpon That the oxe knoweth his owner the Asse his maâ—ters cribb But Israel hath not knowne â—ny people hath no vnderstanding It beâ—oueth him to beleue in these three persons and all thinges which he knoweth out of gods booke It is his part and duty moreouer to practise pietie and godlinesse towâ—rdes God iustice and vprigh dealing towardes man But I knowe what you â—hoote at Verely to haue vs to beleue and â—o stay our selues vpon the aucthoritie of your Church of Rome and the vnwritten â—erities of the same Church Because the true Church of God hath not alwaies appeared to the view of the whole worlde in outwarde pompe or shewe Therefore your indeuour to perswade yet I trust in vaine that man doubtfull in conscience and wauering in faith coulde receiue no comfort by that close inuisible and hartles Church as you call it I haue proued before that God hath raised vp in all ages since the beginninge of the worlde such as haue giuen a testimonie of their zeale and true religion vnto the worlde You must not limit and appointe God his Church or vpon whom hee shall power out his graces or in what measure he shall bestow his spirite God by the ministerie of his woorde doeth cure and heale suche as be broken in heart geueth medicine to heale their sickenesse maketh strong the weake faith and doth comforte the feeble minde of man by his holie spirite Gods spirite cannot decay or be of lesse power or Gods churche and spouse lesse honourable albeit there were but one simple man in the vniuersall worlde to mans iudgement which doeth imbrace the trueth of god Though Abell was but one thoughe Elias in his time was but one Noah and his housholde but a small number Christe our Sauiour and his simple Fishermen his Apostles men of no reputation a very few in respect of all the world besides had God therefore â—o Churche in these times Notwithstanding the law was corrupted before Christ the true worshipp of God cleane extinguised all the people geuen for the most part â—o idolatrie yea and no prophet to reproue the people from Malachie his time vntill
the comming of Christ sauing Iohn Bapâ—iste and he thirty yeares of age before hee preached was there no churche or was Gods spirite decayed and his trueth vanâ—uished all this while â–ª God forbid that â—ee shoulde bee so rashe in iudgement as â—nce to thinke so For Gods spirite which â—s the coÌ„forter of the faithful hath instrucâ—ed the churche of God whether it hath appeared or bene hidde whether it hath beene close or open whether in manie or â—n fewe euer since the beginning So Christe Iesus hath promised that his spirit shoulde remaine with the children of God though the wicked would not receiue him because they see him not neither knowe him The comfortable Spirite of God doeth woorke saluation â—oth adopt into Gods fauoure doth puriâ—â—e our heartes doeth moue vs to all good and godlie actions doth comforte vs in al daungers and confirmeth vs to expecte the comming of our sauiour Christ Therfore to this spirite with the Father and the Sonne be all honour laude and praise Papist 16 SHewe me againe whether anie man can be saued except he beleeue the catholike Church and that is it which in the face of all the world hath practised preaching the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwayes had the ministring of the Sacramentes the hearing of matters in coÌ„trouersie the orderly succession of Bishoppes vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnitie in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite a woorking of miracles remission of sinnes the true sense and interpretation of Gods word that is beawtified with diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with virgins martirs with confessors and the rest Prooue vnto me that this is not the true Church or that we be bounde to obey this Church and none other in all controuersies and doubts raised by the difficultie of the scripture or by the vaine contention and pride of heresie And I recant Answeare 16 Suppose that there was neuer any man which would looke to haue saluation by â—ods mercies in Christ that euer denied â—e Church of god So we beleeue that â—od hath had his Church euer since the â—ginning which Church is the Company â— the faithfull dispersed through out the â—ce of the whole earth which church is the â—ouse of Christ builded vppon the doctrine â— the Apostles and Prophets Christ him â—fe beeing the heade corner stone Yet â—e vtterly denye your Church of Rome to â— this true Church of god The reasons â—d causes why we will not close handes â— agree with your Church be these First â—ur Church dooth refuse Christ Iesus to â— her head in that she setteth vp her Pope â— be her head wherin she wil be gouerned â— all things euen against gods holy word â—erefore your Church is not of god That â—hrist is the heade of the true church not â— but the spirit of God testifieth that God â—ath appointed Christ ouer all things â— be the head to the Church which is â—s body And again The husband is the â—yues head euen as Christ is the heade â—f the Church and he is the same which â—eueth saluation vnto his body Your church appointeth otherwaies to be saueâ— by then onely Christes death and passion yea doth persecute Christ in his members taketh away the key of knowledge whiâ— is the woorde of God from Gods people for that ye wil not suffer them to haue it â— their knowne tongue you feede them nâ— with the sweete pastures of the holy scriptures but with the dregges of your blind Ceremonies and vayne traditions yoâ— teach them to pray in a straunge languagâ— to woorship the creature in steede â— the Creator you mixe the woorde of Goâ— with your owne deuises not to the benefite of Gods people but to get mony anâ— to enrich your selues with the spoile â— their soules You sett out all your practises as you call them to sale For of youâ— church it is saide Omnia Romae vaenaliaâ— All thinges are to bee had for monye aâ— Rome The Poet saith That Templeâ— Priestes altars sacrifices crownes fierâ— frankencense yea heauen is to be soldâ— and God him selfe But you giue smalâ— credit vnto this author Will you hearâ— what one of your approoued doctors saith Roma dat omnbus omnia dantibus omnia Romae cum praecio Rome doth â—iue to al men which doo giue all things â—o her all thinges are there to be had for â—ony at Rome Your owne decretales â—y That Rome is the head of coueteousâ—esse and therefore all thinges are there â—o be solde Your Popedome is in part â—ainteined with the tribute of Curtesans â—r common stues which is the rewarde of â—niquitie Thus you forbid lawfull matriâ—onie and mainteine open lecherie And â—hereas you would haue the worlde to beâ—eeue that your Church of Rome hath alwayes had the due and right administratiâ—n of the Sacramentes vnitie in faith orâ—erly succession of Bishoppes euen from Peter vniformitie in solempne ceremonies â—ebating of matters in controuersie all holy functions commended by Christ as virgins martirs and confessors and that all Churches are bound to obey the Church of Rome in all controuersies and doubtes raysed by the difficulty of the scriptures it shall appeare to all men that these are but vaine ostentations and shewes without truth But you wil aske me who shal iudge this matter for sometimes you stay vpon Counceles sometimes vppon Fathers sometimes vpoÌ„ customes Truly I would but wishe you and euery indifferent reader to examine whether your masse doe agree worde by worde with the last supper of our sauiour Christe You haue culleâ— foorth these woordes Hoc est corpus meum This is my bodie And therevppoâ— haue framed your masse The wordes be comfortable if you would take theÌ„ in a spirituall sense and meaning to signifie vnto vs the bodie of Christe as the godlie Father Augustine doth expouude those same woordes Non dubitauit dominus dicere hoc est corpus meum cum daret signum corporis sui Our Lord saieth hee doubted not to say This is my bodie when as he gaue a signe of his bodie Likewise Tertullian saith Hoc est corpus meum hoc est figura corporis mei â–ª This is my bodie that is to say This is a figure of my body But what shal I speak of al the abuses of your masse as the consecration the eleuation the aduocation the priuate receiuing the vnknowen tongue the ministration in one kinde keeping the â—uppe from the Laie people making it a propiciatorie sacrifice for the quicke and dead which all are moste contrarie vnto Christe his institution in his last supper Furthermore you haue corrupted Baptisme and haue deuised fiue other Sacraâ—entes more then Christe hath ordained â—d appointed in his worde Touhcing your succession of bishopes â—d vnitie in religion they are two things â—hich sound verie well together If so bee â—u can proue your succession out of the â—orde
of God and your vnitie to agree â—ith Christs veritie and Gospell But is â—t this rather truely verified of your sucâ—ssion which was vttered by Pope Aâ—riaÌ„ Succedimus non Petro in pasceÌ„do â—d Romulo in parricidio We succeade â—aith hee not Peter in feeding but Roâ—ulus in murdering Succession of place â—uaileth not one strawe if you cannot in â—ke maner proue the succession of Christ â—s true doctrine The idolatrous priestes â— al ages might verie wel haue boasted of â—ccession of place And so might the Phaâ—sees which bragged somuch of their temâ—le and of their succession euen from Moâ—es and yet they were fouly fallen awaye â—roÌ„ the sincere pure Law of God worâ—hipped god in vain teaching the precepts â—nd doctrine of men You claime your sucâ—ession from Peter the blessed Apostle of Christ for that as you saie he was Bishope of Rome If nowe you can proue that your religioÌ„ is the same that Peter taught written by the spirit of truth for the comfort of the true Church of God conteined in the newe testament of Christ Then not onely I but all which defende the same truth with me will willingly ioyne handes with you But and if you can not proue your doctrine by gods worde you must theÌ„ pardoÌ„ vs in that we wil not take your part against Christ I woulde to God that you woulde vnfainedlie sect forthe to the vse of gods people that religion which the Apostle Paule I will not say Peter for that there is no warraÌ„t in the scriptures for his beinge at anie time in Rome planted amongst the Romanes Which faith true religion the Apostle commendeth in theÌ„ â–ª Then surely we woulde not onely goe but ruÌ„ne with you to the building of gods temple and woulde lay to our handes and our harts To this effect spaketh S. Ciprian that alwaies wee builde our faith succession and whole religion vpon a sure stedfast foundation If saith he The pipes of the cundit which before ran with aboundaunce happen to faile doe wee not serche to the heade c â–ª The priests of God â–ª â—â—â—ing gods commaundements must doe the same that if the truthe haue fainted or failed in any point we turne to the very originall of our Lord and to the traditions of the Gospell and of the Apostles that from thence the reason of our actions or doings may arise from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus wee may say of your vnitie in faith your vniformiâ—ie in ceremonies your holy functions If you can proue confirme these thinges by manifest places of the holy scriptures for my parte I will recant â—nd be of your religion But though you â—r an Angel would perswade me to the coÌ„trarie without the testimonie of Gods worde God assisting me with his spirit I will not beleue you I marueile why you will seeme to mainteine these matters seâ—ng it is most repugnanc to the truth The â—eade Capitaines of your religion and Doctours of your Church do not agree in â—he vnitie of your religion but do disâ—ent in the principle pointes thereof Some â—aye That Christes naturall body euen â—he same which was borne of the virâ—in Marie is receiued in the Sacrament â—ome denye saying that so soone as the forme of the bread is grated with the teethe straight way the body of Christ is caught vp into Heauen One sayth That a mouse may eate the body of Christ an other sayth That a mouse can not eate it and to dissolue these questions the cheefe piller of your church euen Petrus Lombardus saith What the mouse doth take or what she eateth God knoweth I can not tell And noting further the disagrement of your church men he saith Some men iudge thus some say thus some haue written thus some graunt thus some others haue taught thus that the verie substance of the bread wine remaine still And if a question saith he were moued what maner of conuersion or chaunge this is whether in forme or in substaunce or in some other manner I am not able to discusse An other saith How the body of Christ is there whether it bee by chaunging of something into it or Christes body beginne to bee there together with the bread both the substance and the accidents of the bread remaining still without chaunging it is not founde exprest in the canon of the Bible Innocentius the thirde Pope of that name sayth that there were some which sayde that as after consecration there remayned the very accidentes or formes of â—reade so likewise the verie substance of the same breade remaineth still Marke howe the pleasâ—â—nt and swete â—armonie and concordaunce of your â—hurch of Rome doeth agree and hange â—ogether as coÌ„cerning these weightie cauâ—s I thinke you iudge this transubstanâ—ation a matter of faith You may see â—en howe you agree or rather disagree â— the vnitie of faith Concerning your â—iformitie in your so manie superstitious â—uiteles and tedious Ceremonies and â—aditions of your owne inuentions it â—ay easily be veiwed and seene by the maâ—fold sectes of your religious stoare and â—ble of your heremites your Ankers â—d Ancresses your recluses your holy â—onkes of Benettes order of Cluniacenâ—s order of Lazarits order of Saint â—ieronimus order of Saint Gregories â—der the order of the shadowed valley of â—saphattes order of the Humiliats orâ—r of the Celestines order of Gilberâ—nes order of Iustinians order of the Charter house Monks of the Templaries order of the Iacobites order the Monks of Mount Oliuete Maries bretheren the order of the Flagellatours the Starred Monkes some white some black some graie some maled so called for thaâ— they did weare male cotes next their skin the order of Iesuites and a greate company of orders besides these Of Friers somâ— were called crosse bearers some Carmelitâ— or white Friers some Minorities or greâ— Friers some obseruant Friers some Mendicant or begging Friers some Dominicke some Franciscans so called of Sainâ— Frances whose coule as Thomas Aquine faith had power to remoue sinne I omitte your Channons your Virgiâ— Nunnes of all sortes but such as had nâ— oyle in their Lampes your Nominals your reals I might make a long discourse here in describinge the varietie of this religions crue and companie not only in ceremoniall matters but also in matters of faith and doctrine But I trust all the world doth knowe howe they haue bene bewitched with such kind of sorceries and therefore I should but wast labour and lose time You aske further Whether wee bee bounde to obey your Church of Rome and none other in all controuesies and doubtes raised by the difficultie of the Scriptures or by the vaine contention of heresies Hereby you seeme to chalenge two thinges not onely a prerogatiue or preheminence aboue all other churches but also the interpretation of the scriptures solely and wholy to appertaine vnto you But I pray you tell me from whence you had this
sense and â—ere not able to expound and interpret his â—wn meaning Saint Paule saith That we must to not heare an Angel if he bring aâ—ie thing contrarie to the Gospell Augustine expounding these woordes saith Whether it be of Christ or of his church or of anie thing else whatsoeuer pertaining either to our life or to our faith I wil not onely say if I my self but if an Angel from heauen shal teach vs otherwise then we haue receiued in the bookes of the Lawe and the Gospel holde him accursed An other godly father saith As what Gold soeuer is without the Temple is not sanctified so euery sense and interpretation which is without the holy scripture although vnto some it seeme woonderfull yet it is not holy because it is not conteined in the sense of the Scripture Call to remembraunce I praye you how vntruely and cleane contrarie to the true meaning of the holy Ghost your Church hath interpreted the Scriptures As vpon these woordes Fiet vnum ouile et vnus Pastor your Church giueth this exposition to these woordes There shal be one folde and one shepheard we may not vnderstand it of Christ but of some other minister that ruleth in his roome One saide vnto Pope Leo in the CouÌ„cel holden at Lateran Behold the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda is come the roote of Dauid c. O most blessed Leo wee haue wayted for thee to be our Sauiour So it is likewise sayde The Pope beeing the light is come into the worlde and men haue loued the darkenesse more then light euery man that dooth euell hateth the light that is to say the Pope and commeth not to the light These woordes are to be vnderstoode of our sauiour Christ who in deede is the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda and commeth of the roote of Dauid who is the lighte that commeth into the world and see how blasphemouslie your Church doth wrest these woordes and applieth them vnto the Pope Againe Pope Sextus affirmeth That hee can neuer be forgiuen whosoeuer he be which accuseth the Pope And thus he reasoneth He that sinneth against the holy Ghost that is to say Against the Pope shall neuer be forgiuen neither in this world nor in the world to come These woordes of the Scripture are thus to bee taken That they shall neuer haue forgiuenes at Gods hands which sinne against the holy Ghost And the Pope wil haue them to be meant of him I coulde rehearse infinite places to this same effecte and purpose But let the indifferent reader iudge by these fewe places howe vntruely the church of Rome dooth interpret the holy scriptures But let them beware betimes of the heauy iudgmeÌ„ts of god Wo be vnto theÌ„ that cal good euel euel good darkenes light light darknes sower sweete and sweete sower What is this but to diminish the authoritie of the heauenly woorde of God God dooth sharpely threaten That if anie man shal adde vnto these thinges GOD shall adde vnto him those plagues that are writteÌ„ in this booke if anie man shal diminish of the wordes of the booke of this prophesie God shall take away his parte out of the booke of life out of the holy citie and from those things which are written in this boke God grauÌ„t you true repentaÌ„ce that you may imbrace Christ his worde and escape these threatnings of God. Papist 17 MOreouer let anie man prooue vnto me that the true only church of god may at anie time be voyd of a spirit of falsly interpret any senteÌ„ce of holy scripture or induce any errours among the people or approoue any vnprofitable or hurtful vsage amongst Christians or that she suffreth any daÌ„nable abuse in her religion without open reprehension thereof prooue any of these proofes And I recant Answeare 17 I Haue prooued before at large that the true Church of God is neuer without the comfort of gods spirit which spirit doeth not visibly and openly in anie forme or substance reueale and shewe him selfe but inwardly ingraffe in the hartes of the elect whether they be manie or fewe the doctrine of the Gospell doth increase true knoweledge in them doth worke true sanctificatioÌ„ holinesse and doth guide leade them in al good actions I haue proued also that gods true church doth not corrupt and falsly interpret the holy scriptures as your Church of Rome doth in wresting and wringing the sence of the scriptures in comparing it to A nose of waxe a shipmans hose or in calling it A dead and dumbe letter But the true sheepe doth gladly here the voice of the shephearde do acknowledge all thinges to be contained in the scripture necessary for mans saluation doe confesse no hardnesse or difficulty to be in the worde of God But that the holie Ghost doth sufficiently expounde himselfe and one place expresse another The true Church doth not teach the people anie errours anie vnwritten verities any inuentions of her owne braine or anie thing touching doctrine or life which shee findeth not written in the canonicall scriptures doth not approue anie vnprofitable vsages anie fond customes or suffer anie damnable abuses in religion without open reprehension dooth finde faulte and doth openlie inueigh against all thinges which be mixt with Gods true worshippe and seruice by the deuise of anie man whatsoeuer and will alowe nothing to be vsed amongst gods people but onely that which is warranted by the worde of god In this your treatise albeit you speake generallie yet you haue a special meaning But truly euen in that thing wherewith you charge vs you bee most giltie your selfe For if those be worthily called Abuses in religion which be matters of faith and vsed in the Church contrarie to the expresse worde of God so that Christ may be vmpeere lett al indifferent persons iudge whether your Church of Rome or we which professe the Gospell doe more abuse true religion and induce erours amongest the people We say that wee must pray only vnto God in the name of Christ and vnto none other your Church of Rome saith That wee must pray vnto the saints departed and vse them as meanes for vs vnto God. Neuerthelesse God saith Call vpon mee in the day of trouble I wil heare thee Dauid The Prophet saith When I was in trouble I called vpon the Lord and he heard me And againe he saith I will confesse my sinnes vnto the Lorde and so hee forgaue me the wickednesse of my sinne Christ saith Whatsoeuer you aske my Father in my name hee will giue it you Shewe me now by what aucthoritie of scripture you can disprooue this and prooue your inuocation of Saintes we say That it is god onely which forgiueth sinnes that for Christes sake whose blood doth purge vs froÌ„ al sinne You say that the Pope can forgiue sinne and giue pardon for many hundred yea thousand yeares and that he can doo
whatsoeuer God him selfe can doo For in name you giue him no lesse prerogatiue Dominus Deus noster Papa Our Lord God the Pope We say that wee are iustified freely by Gods speciall grace and mercie offered in Christ and that faith is the instrument to apprehend this our iustification and so saith the Apostle Ye are saued by grace and that through faith not of our selues it is the gift of god not of workes least any man should reioyce And againe Abraham beleeued God and it was couÌ„ted to him for righteousnesse You say that we are iustified by our owne works yea and that we haue workes more then wee neede which you call woorkes of supererogation or superfluous woorkes We say that we must confesse our sinnes onely vnto God and so saith Dauid I will confesse euen against mine owne selfe mine vnrighteousnesse vnto the Lorde You say That wee muste confesse our sinnes to the prieste and receiue absolution at his handes And this you call Auricular confession We say that the people of God be they neuer so simple or vnlearned ought to haue the vse of the scriptures of GOD in their knowne tongue and both heare them and reade them So Christ biddeth al men To search the scriptures Dauid sayeth That they are a light to our feete Saint Paule saith That whatsoeuer thinges are written they be written for our learnin and eugery scripture sent from God is profitable to teach to instructe to reprooue and to exhort that the man of God may be perfect prepared to euery good woorke He saith further Let the woord of God dwell in you aboundantly Wherevppon Saint Hierome noteth That euen the Leye peoshoulde reade the Scriptures and teache and admonish one an other Your church saieth That the vnlearned people ought not to haue the Scriptures in their vulgar toung that they are hard and full of difficulties We say that no Images are to bee brought into the Temple of God or to bee woorshipped God hath forbidden it by expresse commaundementes â—oth the making and the woorshipping God curseth â—oth the maker thereof the toole that â—eth it and him also that worshippeth â—t Christ saith Thou shalt woorship the â—ord thy God and him onely shalt thou â—erue The Apostle saith that Idolaters â—all haue no inheritance with Christ and â—ith God. The Angell of God refuseth â— be woorshipped and saith moreouer â—oorship God. You say that images are to bee made at they oughte to bee placed in the temâ—es that they are to bee worshipped and that they are the Laie mens bookes yea and that not onely images of Saints departed but also of Christe and of GOD himselfe whiche image of God you set foorth in the similitude of an old aged man hauing a loÌ„g gray beard and a hoare head albeit God hath geuen a straighte charge to the contrarie And Christe saith that no man hath seene God at anie time but the onely begotten sonne of God. Saint Augustine saith That it is abhominable to set anie suche picture in the Churches of Christians If a man had come into anie of your Churches in times past and had vsed your images as Epiphanius a godlie writer did vse the like long sithens you woulde haue cursed him with bell booke and candell and woulde haue burned him to ashes in the ende I will repeate the wordes conteined in an Epistle which Epiphanius did write vnto the Byshoppe of Hierusalem whiche be these I founde saith he a vaile hanging at the entrie of the Churche stained and painted and hauing the Image as it were of Christe or of some Saint for whose picture it was in deede I do not remember Therefore when I sawe the image of a man to hang in the Churche of Christe contrarie to the commaundement of the Scriptures I toare it in sonder and gaue councell to the wardens of the Churche that they should winde and burie some poore bodie in it c. â— beseech you charge the Priestes of that place that they commaunde that suche â—ailes as be contrarie to our religion be â—o more hanged vp in the Churche of Christe it behoueth your reuerence to â—aue care hereof that this superstition â—nmeete for the Church of Christ and â—nmeete for the people which be committed vnto you be remoued I might â—ande long in displaying and manifesting â—he erroures superstitious trifles of your Churche of Rome not onelie in secrete â—ractises and deuises moste expressely aâ—ainst God and his truth but also euen in matters of faith and in the principles of â—rue religion how farre you disagree from Christe and his Gospell and from all â—odlie writers of auncient time But these â—ay serue for a taste sauing that I will â—peake one worde of your Popes greate â—hallenge We say that all men of what calling soeuer they bee oughte to yeeld their obedience vnto suche as are in aucthoritie Christ our Sauiour paied tribute he sayed Giue vnto Caesar that whiche is due vnto Caesar Saint Paule sayeth Let euery soule be subiect vnto the higher powers for there is no power but of GOD whosoeuer therefore resisteth the power resisteth th' ordinauÌ„ce of god Saint Chrisostome vpon these wordes saieth Although thou be an Apostle although thou be an Euangelist although thou be a Prophete or whosoeuer thou arte for this subiection doth not ouerthrowe godlinesse and he doeth not say simplie let him obey but let him be subiect And Theophilacte writing vpon the same place sayeth That the Apostle teacheth al men whether he be a priest or Monke or Apostle that he be subiect vnto Princes Your Churche doeth challenge this aucthoritie from Peter to be aboue Kinges and Emperoures which also you say Peter receiued from Christe For these be the verie words of Pope Nicholas Christ saieth he hath giuen to blessed Peter the righte as well of the â—orldly as also of the heauenly Emâ—yre Wherevpon you grounde these arâ—ments The Sonne is higher and greaâ—r then the Moone Therefore the â—ope is higher and greater then the â—mperour The soule is aboue the boâ—e therefore the pope is aboue the â—mperour Thus you take vpon you not â—elie to haue the superioritie ouer Emâ—erours but also to put them forth of their â—ates and to remoue the Empire at your â—easure And thus did Pope Adrian write â—to Frederike the Emperour My seate â—saith he is in the citie of Rome The â—mperoures seate is at Acon in Arden which is a Forest in Fraunce Whatsoâ—uer the Emperour hath hee hath it of â—s as pope Zacharias traÌ„slated the Emâ—ire from Graecia into Germany So â—ay we againe translate the same from â—e Germanes to the Greekes Behold â— is in our power to bestowe the Emâ—ire vpon whom we liste But note how â—he writinges of Saint Peter doe agree â—ith this proud popish stile Submit your â—elues saith Peter vnto all manner orâ—inaunces of man for the Lords sake Whether it be vnto
the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That
aboundaunce of his spirit vpon all Iewes Turkes Infidels and Papists that they may imbrace the glad tidinges of the Gospell and become obedient children vnto the maiestie of almightie god Where wee haue peculiar charge in our seuerall congregations wee exhorte with Iohn Baptist all men to repentaunce Wee say with the Apostle That wee are messengers from Christ to moue the people to be reconciled vnto God that we are feâ—owe laborers to beseech them not to â—eceiue the grace of God in vaine shewâ—ng that nowe is the accepted time and the daye of saluation in the whiche the God of all mercies doth offer them â—ardon of their sinnes for Christes sake â—hough they be neuer so manie in numâ—er if they wil repent beleeue the gosâ—el We haue no warrant in Gods woorde â— which ought to be the square or rule to â—â—reâ—t all Christians to claime or chaleng â—nie such authoritie ouer other nations Christ our sauiour doth denie that superiâ—ritie vnto the Apostles saying It shall â—ot be so amonge you In deede your Church of Rome doth vsurp this that shee â—s aboue all other Churches that all natiâ—ns doe owe their obedience vnto hir and â—hat all Kinges and Emperours doe owe â—heir subiectioÌ„ vnto hir as in Peters right â—ou haue sought and doe seeke the same suâ—eriority as appeareth by the sayinge of Frederike the Emperour vnto Pope Alexander the thirde most tyrannically treading vpon him and setting his foote in his neck Non tibi sed Petro This submission saith the Emperour belongeth not to thee but to Peter To whom the Pope answered Etmihi Petro It is both due vnto me to Peter The like proud behauiour shewed Pope HildebraÌ„d vnto Henrie the fourth Emperoure who caused him his wife and his sonne to attende and wayte three dayes three nights barefoote and barelegged before his pallace at Canntium or he would vouchsafe to speake with him But to let these thinges passe of which like examples the histories be plentilull which doe argue the ambition and tyrannie of your church As you haue made oftentimes this offer That if such suche thinges coulde be prooued you would recant So say I againe vnto you if you be willing to play the Proctoures part in the behalfe of your church of Rome and proue these high dignities which shee doeth challenge by the worde of God not onely I but manie thousandes will ioyne handes with your church But you shall neuer bee able to proue by the scriptures that God either in the olde or newe Testament â—ath promised to establishe anie suche one â—hurche in earth which shoulde appeare in â—utwarde pompe and externall shewe to â—e viewe of the whole worlde continually â— endure by orderly succession of anie Apoâ—olike man in one place or to be of suche â—uthoritie maiestie in earth that it might â—equire the obedience of all nations sumâ—oning and citing them vpon paine of exâ—mmunication to appeare at her generall â—essions or Councelles called by her Nay â—ther the churche of God as I haue declaâ—d before hath beene for the most part subâ—ct to persecutions of smal countenance â— the eyes of man and so small that oftenâ—mes shee coulde not bee seene as in Elias is time it playnely appeareth as also in â—e time in which our sauiour Christ was â—uersant here on earth But of this matter â— haue spokeÌ„ at large in other places You â—eme to take it as grauÌ„ted to you that you â—aue authoritie to call all nations to your â—uncells yet it appeareth by the ecclesiâ—ticall histories that you haue no such priâ—ledge or commission but that of right it apperteineth to the temporall magistrate Constantine the great being Emperour ouer all the world did call and summon generall councellâ— for the establishing of true religion without the consent of the Pope For so a good writer affirmeth Constantine saith he as if he had bene a common Bishope appointed by God called together councels of gods ministers and disdained not himselfe to sitt in the middest of theÌ„ to be partaker of their doings Your owne Popes in like manner doe confesse this For Pope Leo writing vnto Theodosius the Emperoure hath these woordes All our Churche sayeth he and our Priestes most humblie beseech your maiestie with sobbes and teares that you will commaund a generall concell to be holden within Italie I do not deny but that your Bishopps of Rome traueled earnestly that no councell shoulde be called without their consentes and to haue this prerogatiue of calling councells but yet they coulde neuer bring it to passe vntill they had gotten the Emperoures heads vnder their gyrdelles and that appeareth by the saying of Pope Pius 2. otherwise called Aeneas Syluius who â—doeth also note the inconueniencie whiche woulde insue thereof By these authorities saith hee they thinke them selues armed that say no councell may be kept without the consent of the Pope Whose iudgement if it should stand as they woulde haue it would drawe with it the decaye and ruine of the Church for what remedie were there then if the Pope him selfe were vicious destroyed soules ouerthrewe the people with euell examples taught doctrine contrarie to the faith and filled his subiects full of heresies â–ª should we suffer all to goe to the Diuâ—ll â–ª Verely when I reade the olde â—tories and consider the Actes of the Apoâ—les I finde no such order in those dayes â—hat only the Pope should summoÌ„ councels And afterwardes in the time of Constanâ—tine the greate and of other Emperoures when councells should be called there was â—o greate account made of the Popes â—onsent Moreouer he saith that before â—he councell of Nice eche Bishope liued seâ—erally and little regard was then had to â—he Church of Rome But concerning â—hefe titles wherewith the woord of God dooth beautifie adorneth the true Church of God calling her The spouse of Christ the dearelie beloued of Christ the citie of God c. Let the scriptures Gospel of Christ it selfe conteined in the olde newe Testament be iudge in this matter whether these titles doo belong and appertaine to your Church or vnto ours Our Church affirmeth Christ Iesus onely to be the heade of the Church his Spouse your Churche dooth affirme the Pope to be her head our Church dooth not mainteine any doctrine Sacrament or any tradition which is not grounded vppon the doctrine of Christ and expresly set foorth in the holy Byble your Church dependeth vppon the decrees of man dooth teache such ecclesiasticall ordinances and constitutions to be of equall authoritie with the Scriptures of God setteth foorth fiue Sacramentes more then euer Christ ordeined and corrupteth the other two Sacramentes onely appointed by Christ for these fiue Sacramentes deuised by your church of Rome were brought into England by Otho the Cardinall in the raigne of King Henrie the third in the yeare of our Lord. 1236. To conclude our Church dooth feede Christes people and flocke with
faith saythâ— thus In this battaile of diuells notwithstanding the godly Princes the souldiers the Ecclesiasticall Prelats subiectes be ouerthrowen yet euermore some remaine in whom the truth of faithe and the righteousnesse of a good conscience is preserued And although there remaine but two men in the world yet in the same church then al meÌ„ yong old for those yeres perished with out hope of mercy because they coulde not vnite them selues and be incorporate to the companie and congregation whereof they neuer hearde nor coulde by anie meanes surmise Therefore let anie man aliue proue me that either anie man could euer out of the trewe Churche be saued or that anie other companie could bee knowne for the true and onely Church but our common catholike societie or that all men were damned for a thousand yeares togither because they coulde not surmise of anie other Church then that which practised all holie functions which Christ left for our saluation â—n the worlde And I recant Answeare 12 COncerninge your question whether anie man for the space of a thousande â—eeres of blindnesse could be saued out of the Protestantes Churche wee doe not yeld so much vnto you that your blinde Church continued a thousande yeares but of that I haue sufficiently spoken before and haue shewed in what manner it began howâ— iâ— grewe and increased and when it came to full perfection You haue moreouer framed albeit vncunningly a dilemma or captious proposition wherein you meanâ— to intrappe vs in these words If say you for the space of a M. yeres the people could be saued by the popish sacraments then theâ— was away to heauen without Gods church â— then al are daÌ„ned which died within the â—â—â— passe of these M. yeres Whiche argumeâ— is vntrue in either parte for wee neitheâ— can ascribe saluation to your sacramenteâ— neither do we coÌ„demne those which died â— the time of ignoraunce but referre them â— God 's secret iudgement Furthermore â— answere that without the Church of Goâ— there is no saluation but this Churche â— not bounde nor tied to place time or peâ—son but is inuisible not knowne saue onlâ— to GOD who causeth his lighte to shinâ— forthe of darknesse who doth by his holâ— spirite breathe where he thinketh goodâ— Who is no accepter of persons as Pâ—ter saith But in euerie nation he that feareth God and worketh righteousnes is accepted of him Who is sure in his promises cannot denie himselfe And Saint Paule groundinge vpon Gods election and mans faith saith That the foundation of God remaineth sure hath his seale that the Lord knoweth who are his Man cannot iudge whom God hath chosen For although Elias supposed all the children of God in Israel to haue been murdered by wicked Iesabell and cried out I onely am left aliue Aunswere was made him by God That hee had seuen thousande in Israell that had not bowed there knees vnto Baall And therefore we will not iudge those which haue died in ignorance for want of knowledge but referr al to Gods secret Iudgement who knoweth whom he hath chosen Touching the visible church Saint Augustine saith That acording to gods secret predistination there be manie sheepe without the Church and manie wolues within the Church for he knoweth them and hath them marked that knowe neither God nor them selues So that we neither condemne olde nor younge rich nor poore noble nor simple but leaue them vnto the Lorde who knoweth his God is able in a moment to turne mans harte The theife that did hang vppon the right hande of our sauiour Christ when he desired him to remember him when he shoulde come into his kingdom was most louingly receiued I haue knowen sundry persons which haue ben trained vp al their life time in your popish religion and vppon their deathbed when they did see no waye but one they haue renounced all your trumperie and popish woorship and haue dyed faithfull Christians to mans iudgement Therefore I ende this matter with that saying of the Apostle That Christ is able to haue compassion vppon them that be ignorant So we referre all things vnto Christ as vnto our onely heade and Captaine who hath conquered all our enemies and reconciled vs to God his father You repose a trust and confidence in your Sacramentes wherevnto you doo ascribe saluation vsing them as a way or meanes to climbe vp to heauen as though they coulde sanctificand conferre grace which albeit you did vse them according vnto Christes institution which you haue cleane altered and doo not agree therewith in anie one pointe yet they were but visible signes of inuisible grace So we say that they bee true significations of Gods eternall grace beeing ministred according to the rule which Christ hath left But if grace were necessarily ioyned with the outwarde Sacramentes then the wicked receiuing the Sacramentall signes shoulde also receiue grace which is farre from them I will not vrge you with manie authorities for the proofe hereof whether the sacraments conteine grace or no Reade but your owne writers and they can satisfie you herin Bonauenture one of your own side saith Wee maye not in anie case saye that the grace of God is conteined in the Sacramentes substantially as water in the vessell or medicine in the boxe for to vnderstaÌ„d it so it were erronious But the Sacraments are saide to conteine the grace of God because they signifie the grace of God. An other of your schoole-doctors saith The speciall grace of the passion of Christ is conteined in the Sacraments of the Church euen as the power of the woorkeman is conteined in the instrument or toole wherewith he woorketh Euen as the children of the Prophets sayde to Elizeus the Prophet O thou man of god death is in the pot for that they feared some poisoning herbe to be in the pot because of the bitternes And as the wise man saith Death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that loue it shall eate the fruite thereof His meaning is that by the well or euill vsing of the tongue commeth eyther good or bad But thus much of these matters Papist 13 AGaine shew me anie church or immagin if you can by good reason a Church of Christ in which there is no gathering together for preaching no spirit of prophesying no rodde of correction no order of ministring nor anie spirituall function that can be named prooue me that there can be a true Church for a thousande yeares togeather and lacke all thâ—se things and withall that there was one vntrue Church which for those many yeares onelye practised these offices to the saluatioÌ„ of many And geue me a good reason why this church that alwaies hath had these functions should be a false Church and the other that wanted them all shoulde be a true Church and I recant Answeare 13 THese be verie base childish reasons to prooue the true