Timothie was it holds in others also for if the Scripture be so profitable for such and such uâ—eâ— that thereby it perfects a Divine much more an ordinary Christian that which can peâ—fit the teacher is sufficient for the learner PA. Doe you disclaime all Traditions PRO. We acknowledge Traditions concerning Discipline and the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church but not concerning the doctrine or matter of faith Religion You equalize unwritten traditions to holy Scripture receiving them saith your Trent Councell with equall reverence and religious affection as you receive the holy Scriptures themselves we daâ—e not doe so but such traditions as we râ—ceive we hold and esteeme farre inferiour Concerning the Scriptuâ—e Canon the Trent Councell accurseth such as receive not the Bookes of Machabees Ecclesiasticus â—oby Iudith Baruch Wisdome for Canonical Scriptuâ—e Now wee retaine the same Canon which Christ and his Apostles held and received from the Iewes unto whom were committed the Oracles of God being as Saint Augustine speakes The Christians Library-keepers Now the Iewes never received these Bookes which wee terme Apocryphall into their Canon yea Christ himselfe divided the Canon into three severall rankes iâ—to the Law the Prophets and the Psalmes now the Apocryphal come not within this reckoning Indeed as S. Hierome saith The Church reades these Bookes for example of life and instruction of manners but yet it doth not apply them to stablish any Doctrine Of Comunion under both kindes and the number of Sacraments If any shall say The Church was not induced for just causes to communâ—caâ—e the â—ay people under one kinde vâ—z of bread onely and shall say they â—rred in so doing let him bee accursed saith the Trent Councell Now our Chuâ—ch holds That both the parts of the Lords Sacrament ought to bâ—e ministred to all Gods people so thaâ— according to us In the publâ—kâ— celebraâ—ion of â—he Eâ—chaâ—ist Communion in boâ—h kinds ouâ—ht to bee given to all sorts of Câ—riâ—â—ians righâ—ly disposed and prepared and this oâ—â— Tenet is agâ—eâ—able to Christes Institution and Precept who saith exprâ—sly and liâ—erally Drink yee all of this It agrees aâ—so with Saint Pauls precept and with the practice of the holy Apostleâ— and the priâ—ative Church Dionysius Arcopagita who as you say was Saint Pauls Scholler and Disciple relates the practice of the Church in his time on this manner After the Priest hath prayed that hee may hoâ—â—ly distribute and that all they that are to partake of the Sacrament may receiue it worthyly he breakes the Bread into many pieces and divides one Cup among all Ignatius who was Scholler to Saint Iohn the Evangelist saith That one Bread is broken unto all and one Cup destributed unto all PA. Bellarmine saith the words of Ignatius are not as you alleage them There is one Cup distributed unto all but there is one Cup of the whole Church and though the Greeke Copies reade as you doe yet he saith That much credit is not to be given to them PROT. Shall we give more credit to a Translâ—tion then to the Originall If the Well-head and Spring bee corâ—upted how shall the Brooke or Streame runne cleare It may be indeed that divers errors are crept both into the Greeke Latine Copies but for the place alleagâ—d there is no colour of corruption in asmuch as the same that Ignatius spake of the Bread the same are repeated of the Cup according to Christs Institution and howsoever Bellarmine may produce some Latine Copie that translateth the words of Ignatius as Bellarmine sets them downe Vnus Calix totius Ecclesiae yet as D. Featly observes in the Grand Sacriledge of the Romish Church Vitlemius and divers other Latin Copies following the originall verbatim render them thus Vnus Calix omnibus distributus that is One Cup distributed unto all and not as Bellarmine and Baronius ad Ann. 109 sect 25. would have it as if Ignatius had said that one Cup was distributed not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnibus but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pro omnibus not to all but for all that is for the behoofe and benefit of all Howsoever they wrest it Ignatius tels us of one Cup and this not the Priests Cup but the Churches Cup and this Cup was distributed But now adaies in the Masse there is no distribution of the Cup. PA. Christ spake these words Drinke yee all of this only to the Apostles as they were Priests and not to the Laitie PRO. By this meanes you might take away the Bread as well as the Cup from the Lay-people for when Christ administred the Sacrament none were present for ought we know but onely the Apostles Besides the Apostles were not yet fully ordained Priests though they had beene once sent to Preach Christ after his Resurrection breathed on them the holy Ghost and fully endued them with Priestly power Iohn 20.22 Againe the Apostles at this Supper were Communicants not Ministers of the Sacrament Christ was then the onely Minister in that Action Now Christ delivered them the Cup as well as the Bread saying to the same persons at the same time and in the same respect Drinke yee all of this to whom hee had said before Take and Eate giving both alike in charge so that you must either barre the people from both or admit them to both now if neither precept of eating or drinking belong to the Laitie the Laitie are not at all bound to receive the Sacrament PA. Although it be said of Drinking the Cup Doe this in remembrance of me Yet the Words Doe this are spoken Absolutely of the Bread and but Conditionally of the Cup namely as often as yee shall drinke it 1 Cor. 11.25 So that these Words Doe this in remembrance of me inferre not any Commandement of receiving in both kindes PRO. According to your Tenet our Saviour saith not Doe this as often as you Lay men communicate but whensoever you receive the Cup and drinke then doe it in remembrance of me as much as to say as often as you Lay people drinke which needeth never be done by you according to Romish Divinitie Doe this nothing in remembrance of mee Besides as there is a Quotiescunque as often set before the Cup As oft as you drinke so there is a Quotiescunque set before the Bread As often as you shall eate this Bread vers 26. so that quotiâ—scunque biberitis as often as you Drinke cannot make the Precept Conditionall in respect of the Cup more than of the Bread it being alike referred to the Bread and to the Cup. PA. We wrong not the Laitie ministring unto them under one kinde onely they receiving the same benefit by one that they should doe by both Christs body and bloud being whole in each so that the people receive the bloud together with the Host by a Concomitancy PRO. In vaine have you devised Concomitance to
may grow in respect of farther Explanations but it cannot increase in Substantiall points even as a child as Vicentius Lirinensis â—aith though he grow in stature yet hath he no more limbs when he becommeth a man than he had when he was a child so the Church hath no more parts or Articles of Faith in her riper age than she had in her infancie and by this rule new Rome is a Monster if she have more â—word oâ— liâ—bs of Faith now in her declining age than ancient Rome had in her flourishing age And herein we challenge our adversaries to shew the body of their Religion peâ—fited in this first and purest age what time the Church was in her vigour and the Scripture Canon finished and consigned but they dare not be tried by the booke of Scripture Now for us we willingly put our cause to bee tried by that honourable and unpartiall Iury of Christ and his twelve Apostles and the Evidence that shall be given by the testimonie and vivâ voce of holy Scripture but they turne their backs and fly from this triall But I proceed and come to Ioseph of Arimathea whom I named for one of our Ilands speciall Benefactors it was this Ioseph as our best Antiquaries say that together with twelve other Disciples his Assistants came out of France into Britaine and preached the Christian Faith in the Western part of this Iland now called Glastenbury which place in ancient Charters was termed the Grave of the Saints the Mother Church the Disciples foundation whereby it is very likely that our land was first converted by Ioseph of Arimathea being sent hither by S. Phillip not from S. Peter and that not from Rome but from Arimathea which was not farre from Hierusalem so that Hierusalem is the Mother of us all as both Hierome and Theodoret say And this is the rather probable because that upon Austin the Monks comming into England the British Bishops observed their Easter and other points of difference according to the Greâ—ke or Easterne Church and not after the Romane Westerne Church which makes it probable that our first conversion came from the Christian converted Iewes or Grecians and not from the Romanes but howsoever it were or whence-soever they came wee blesse God for the great worke of our conversion THE SECOND CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 100. to 200. PAPIST WHom doe you name in this Age PROTESTANT In this Age lived Hegesippus of the Iewish Nation afterwards converted to Christianitie Melito Bishop of Sardis Iustine Martyr who of a Philosopher became both a Christian and a Martyr Now also lived Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons in France sometimes Scholler to Polycarp and both of them Martyred foâ— the name of Christ of this Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna it is recorded that being urged by the Romane Deputie to deny Christ he stoutly replied on this manner I have served him these foure-score and six yeares and he hath not hurt me and shall I now deny him Now also lived Clemens Alexandrinus who was Scholler to one Pantenus these two seeme to be the Authors of Vniversities and Colledges for they taught the Grounds of Religion not by Sermons and Homilies to the people but by Catecheticall doctrine to the Learned in the Schooles Now that in point of doctrine we consent with the Worthies of this Age it may appeaâ—e by the testimonie of Irenâ—us a Disciple of those that heard Saint Iohn the Apostle for he layeth downe no other Articles of Faith and Grounds of Religion then our ordinarie Catechisme teacheth besides he sheweth that in the unitie of that Faith the Churches of Germany Spain France the East Aegypt Libya and all the World were founded and therein sweetly accorded as if they had al dwelt in one house all had had but one soule and one heart and one mouth The like doth his contemporary Tertullian he gives the fundamentall points of Religion gathered out of the Scriptures and delivered by the Churches the same which our Church delivereth and no other for the Rule of Faith Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Irenaeus saith The Scriptures are perfect as spoken from the Word of God and his Spirit and Erasmus observes that Irenaeus fought against the troupes of Heretikes onely by the forces and strength of Scripture indeed he sometimes chargeth them with the Churches tradition wounding them with their owne weapon but this was with such undoubted tradition as were in his time thought to bee Apostolike which he might easily discerne living so neere the Aposâ—les dayes Melito Bishop of Sardis being desired by Onesimus to send him a Catalogue of the Bookes of the Old Testament makes no mention of Iudith Tobit Ecclesiasticus nor the Maccabees and yet he profesâ—eth that he made very diligent search to set downe a perfect Cannon thereof And this is likewise confessed by Bellarmine many ancients saith he as namely Melitoâ— did follow the Hebrew Canon of the Iewes Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments Iustin Martyr saith they which are called Deacons among us give to every one that is present of the consecrated Bread Wineâ— adding withal as Christ coÌ„manded them now these words which mention Christs Commandement Bellarmine would haue to belong to the Consecration only not to the Communion whereas Iâ—stin extends Christs precept to both both being injoyned in that precept doe this in remembrance of me so that we have both Christs precept and this Ages practice for our Communion in both Clemens Alexandrinus wrote a booke against the Gentiles which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as ye would say woven after the manner of coverings mixed with the testimonies of Scriptures Poets Philosophers and Histories and therein he hath these words When they distribute the Holy Eucharist as the custome is they permit every one of the people to take a part or portion thereof and what he meaneth by Eucharist himselfe explaineth saying the mingling of the drinke and of the Water and the Word is that which we call the Eucharist so that according to him not Bread onely but Bread and Wine is the Eucharist and of this every one of the people participated in his time and therefore all dranke of the Cup. Iustine Martyr in his Apologie for the Christians specifies no other Sacraments than Baptisme and the Lords Supper and yet in that treatise of his he was justly occasioned to mention the Sacraments of the Church and there he relates the manner of their Church-service Liturgies and Commnuion so that there had beene a fit place for him to have named those other five if the Church had then knowne them Of the Eucharist That the substance of Bread and Wine remaineth in the Sacrament after the words of Consecration albeit the use of the elements bee changed is cleere by the Fathers of this Age. Iustine Martyr saith that the elements of Bread
saw the evill that came upon the place Besides these learned Trium virs there lived in this age Theodoret bishop of Cyrus a towne in Syria Cyrill bishop of Alexandria Leo the great and Gelasius bishops of Rome Vincentius Lirinensis a great impugner of Heresies as also Sedulius of Scotland whose Collections are extant upon Saint Pauls Epistlâ—s and his testimonies frequently cited by the learned L. Primate Doctour Vsher in his Trâ—atise of the ancient Irish Religion Oâ— the Scâ—iptures sufficiencie Saint Augustine saith In those things which are layd downe plainely in the Scriptures all those things are found which appertaine to faith and direction of life Bellarmine would shift off this place by saying That Austine meant that in Scripture are contayned all such points as are simply necessary for all to wit the Creed and the Commandements but beside these other things necessary for Bishops and Pastors were delivered by tradition but this stands not with Austines drift for in the Treatise alleadged de Doctrinâ— Christianâ hee purposely instructeth not the people but Christian Doctors and Teachers so that where he saith In the Scriptures are plainely set downe all things which containe Faith Hope and Charity he meaneth as elsewhere hee expresseth himselfe all things which are necessarily to bee believed or done not onely of the Lay people but even of Ecclesiastickes In like sort the same father saith Those things which seemed sufficient to the salvation of believers were chosen to bee written Vincentius Lirinensis saith that the Canon or Rule of Scripture is perfect abundantly sufficent in it selfe for all things yea more than sufficient neither is this a false supposall as a Iesuit pretends it to be but a grounded truth and the Authors doctrine Liâ—inensis indeed maketh first one generall sufficient Rule for all things the sacred Scriptures Secondly another usefull in some cases onely yet never to be used in those cases without Scriptures which is the Tradition of the Vniversall Church and generall consent of Fathers The first was used by the ancient Church from the worth that is in it selfe the other is used to avoyd the jarring interpretations of pervâ—rse Heretikeâ— that many times abuse the sacred Rule Standard of the Scripture Now we admit the Churches Interpretation as ministeriall to holy Scripture so it be conformable thereunto And wee say with the learned Rejoynder to the Iesuit Malounes Reply Bring us now one Scripture expounded according to Lirinensis his Rule by the Vniversall consent of the Primitive Church to prove Prayer to Saints Image worship in your sense and we will receive it Saint Cyril saith that All things which Christ did are not written but so much as holy writers judged sufficient both for good manners and Godly faith And in another place he saith The holy Scripture is sufficient to make them which are brought uâ— in it wise and most approved and furnished with most sufficient understanding Saint Hierome reasoneth Negatively from the Scriptures saying As we deny not those things that are written so we refuse those things that are not written That God was borne of a Virgin we believe because we reade it That Mary did marry after shee was delivered we beleeve not because we reade it not Saint Chrysostome saith that All those things that are in holy writ are right and cleere that Whatsoever is necessarie is manifest therein yea he calleth the Scripture The most exact Balance Square and Rule of Divine veritie This was the Fathers Rule of Faith of old and the same a perfect one but the Papists now adayes make it but a part of a Rule halfe a Rule and piece it with Tradition Of the Scripture Canon Saint Hierome who was well skilled in the tongues travailed much and saw the choycest Monuments of Antiquitie as also the best Libraries that the Easterne Parts could afford and was therefore likely to meete with the best Canon nameth all the Bookes which we admit and afterwards addeth Whatsoever is besides these is to be put amongst the Apocrypha and that therfore the Booke of Wisedome of Iesus the Sonne of Syrach of Iudith Tobias and Pastor are not in the Canon The same Hierome having mentioned the Booke of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus and delivered his opinion that it is untruly called the Wisedome of Salomon and attributed to him then addeth That as the Church readeth Iudith Tobias and the Maccabees but receiveth them not â—or Canonicall Scriptures so these two Bookes â—amely the Wisedome of Salâ—mon and Iesus the Sonne of Syrach doth the Church reade for the edification of the pâ—ople not to confirme the authority of any doctrine in the Church Objection The Carthaginian Councel received those Books which you account Apocryphall Answer They received them in Canonem Morum not in Canonem Fidei It is true indâ—ed that Saint Austine and the African Bishops of his time and some other in that Age finding these Bookes which Hierome and others rejâ—ct as Apocryphall to be joyned with the other and together read with them in the Church seeme to account them to be Canonicall but they received them onely into the Ecclesiasticke Canon serving for Example of life and instruction of manners and not into any part of the Rule of Faith or Divine Canon as Saint Austine speaking of the Bookes of the Maccabees distinguisheth saying This reckoning is not found in the Canonicall Scriptures but in other Bookes as in the Maccabees plainely distinguishing betweene the Canonicall Scriptures and the Bookes of the Maccabees Wherein saith he There may be something found worthy to be joyned with the number of those miracles yet hereof will we have no care for that we intend the miracles Divini Canonis which are received in the Divine Canon Of the booke of Iudith he tels us The Iewes never received it into the Canon of Scriptures and withall there he professeth That the Canon of the â—ewes was most Authenticall Touching the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus he tels us that They were called Salomons onely for some likâ—nâ—sse of Stile but the Learned doubt whether they bâ—e his Lastly the Councel of Carthage whereat Saint Austine was present Prescribing that no bookes should be read in the Church as Canonicall but such as indeed are Canonicall leaveth out the booke of Maccabees as it appeareth by the Greeke Edition though they have shuffled them into the Latine which argueth suspicion of a forged Canon Now to this ancient evidence of Hierome and Austine the Papists make but a poore Reply Canus saith that Hierome is no rule of Faith and that the matter was not then sufficiently sifièd Bellarmine saith I admit that Hierome was of that opinion because as yet a Generall Councel had decreed nothing touching those bookes and Saint Austin might likewise doubt thereof so that by Bellarmines confession Hierome
in all matters of Religion he agreed fully with the Catholike Roman Church PRO. What his Religion was let his owne workes testifie Guicciâ—rdine saith that amongâ—â— other things hâ—e was charged That his doctrine was not fully Catholike hee meaneth Roman Catholike and Comminees saith That one of the Frier Minorites his professed adversary charged him to be an Heretike so that in his opinion he was not in each point a Roman Catholike And to take the Popes procesâ—e which was published against him as wee find it in Guicciardine Therein it is given out that Savonarola had a holy desire that by his meanes a Generall Councell might be called wherein the corrupt customes of the Clergy might bee reformed and the estate of the Church of God so farre wandred and gone astray might bee reduced so farre forth as was possible to the likenesse of that it was in the Apostles time or those that were neerest unto them and if he could bring so great and so profitable a worke to effect hee would thinke it a farre greater glory then to obtaine the Pope-dome it sâ—lfe in the same Processe it is contained how hee despised the Popes commandements and returned publikely to his olâ— office of preaching affirming that the Popâ—s censures published against him were unjust and of no force as also that the matters by him prophesiâ—d were not pronounced by divine revelation but by his proper opinion grounded upon the doctrine and observation of holy Scripture And now let the Reader consider by that which Guicciardine reports of Savonarola and namely touching the opinion he had of the Popes authoritie and his excommunications touching generall Councels and the deformitie and degeneration of the Churches state in respect of antiquitie as also what Comminees saith of his preaching of the Reformation of the Church and that by the Sword as formerly our Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne foretold and then let him judge of what profession he was likely to be Now for the poynt of faction and sedition It is true indeâ—d that there was a great faction in Florence not onely amongst the Laity but the Spiritualty alâ—o but it doth not appeare that Hierome was the Author or nourisher of this discord or that he had any hand in that tumult wherein Francisco Valori a principall favourer of Savonarola was slaine When Saint Paul preached the Gospel in Asia the whole Citty of Ephâ—sus was full of confusion and they rushed into the Common place and caught Gajus and Aristarchus Pauls companions of his journey Act. 19. ver 29. Was Paul or his companions the occasion of this tumult Savonarola preached the word of God in Florence his adversaries tooke Armes entred the Monasterie of Saint Marke where hee was and drew him and two of his brethren Dominick and Silvester out of the Covent and put them into the common prisons upon occasion of a mutinie in the Citie but Hierome and his fâ—llowes occasioned not this tumult It was indeed pâ—â—tended thaâ— he sided with the one faction in Florence but Philip de Comminees who knew him better than Paâ—sons toucheth that which brought the Frâ—er to the sâ—ake namâ—ly In that hee prophâ—sied and that so vehemently and freely of the comming in of forraine forces and of a King that by force of Armes should reforme the corrupt state of the Church and chastise the Tyrants of Italy this was it saith he which made the Pope and the state of Florence hate him Thus have we heard of his life and death there remaineth nothing now but his Epiâ—aph wherewith Flaminius a famous Poet of Italy hath honoured him And thus it is Dum fera flaâ—ma tuos Hieronyme pascitur artus Religio flevit dilaniâ—ta comas Flevit et ô dixit crudeles parcite flammae Paâ—ite sunt isto viscera nostra rogo That is Whiles Hiâ—rome to the firy stake was led Religion tore her haire and wept and said You cruell flames oh spare this tender heart For whiles he burns Religion feels the smart And so I proceed to the severall points in question Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Geâ—son makes the word of Christ the sole authenticall ground of faith and the onely infallible rule to decide controvâ—rsies The Scriptures saith he is given unto us as a sufficient and infallible Rule for the governement of the whole body of â—he Church and each part thereof unto the end of the world What evill saith the same Gerson hath followed upon the contempt of holy Scripture which doubtlesse is sufficient for the government of the Church for otherwise Christ had beene an unperfect Law giveâ— experâ—eâ—ce will teach That Wickliffe affirmeth that nâ—ither Friers nor Prelates may define aâ—y thing in matters of faith unlesse they have the auâ—hority of sacred Scripture or some speciall revelation I dislikâ— not saith Waldensis but his waywardnesse and craft I condemne and thinke it necessary lest wee wrest the Scâ—â—ptures and erre in the interpretation of them to follow the â—radition of the Church expounding them unto us and not to trust to our own private singular conceits This is that which Vincentius Lirinensis long since delivered Alphonsus Tostatus saith Although the bookes in question bee received of the Church yet are thâ—y not of any solide auâ—hority and thâ—refore they are improfitable to prove and confirme those things which are called in question according to Saint Hierome Thomas Waldensis cites out of Hierome the Canâ—n of the old Testament in these words As there are twâ—nty two letters by which we write in Hebrew all that we speake so there are accounted twenty two bookes by which as letters wee are instructed in the doctrine of God and withall addeth That the whole Canonicall Scripture is contained in the two and twenty bookes Dionysius Carthusiâ—nus in writing upon Ecclesiasticus saith That booke is not of the Conon that is amongst the Canonicall Scriptures although there be no doubt made of the truth of that booke This is likewise confessed by Pererius the Iesuite saying Dionysius Carthusianus and Lyra doe not deny the History of Susanna to be true but they deny the bookes of Iudith Tobit and the Maccabees to apertaine to the Cononicall Scriptures And the like observation touching Lyra is made by Picus Mirandula and Picus himselfe would have us note that many things which in the Decrees are reckoned for Apocryphall and so accounted by Hierome are neverthelesse read in the Divine Service and many things also which some hold not to bee truâ— Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments The Councel of Constance did not simply forbid the ministring of the Sacrament in both kinds but the teaching of the people that of necessity it must be so ministred for so we find in the thirteenth Session of the said Councel That if any should obstinately maintaine that it was unlawfull or â—rronious to receive in one kind he ought to be punished
Ministers to marry In divers other points also many of your side say the same with the Protestants as it is already shown in this treaâ—ise And therefore if you will force the Argument to make that the safest way of salvation which differing parts agree upon why doe you not joyne with uâ— since for the Positive and Affirmative Articles of our Religion noâ— onâ—ly the mâ—st but alâ— Prâ—tâ—stant and Papâ—â—â— agâ—eâ— therein For example sâ—ke Wee agree on boâ—h sides the Scripâ—ures to be the Râ—le of Faith the bookes of the old Testamâ—nt written in Hebrew to bee Canonicall that wee are justified by Faith that God hath made two Receptaclâ—s for mens sâ—â—les aftâ—r death Heaven and Hell that God may â—e woâ—shipped in spirit wiâ—hout an Image thaâ— we are â—o pray unto God by Christ that there bee two Sacramâ—nâ—s that Christ is really recâ—ived in the Lords Suâ—per that Christ made one oblation of himselfe upon the Crosse for the Redemption Propiâ—iation and Satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world In a word where they take the Negative part as in with-holding the Cup from the Laiâ—ie foâ—bidding the administration of the Sacraments in the vulgar tongue and restraining the marriage oâ— Pâ—iests yet even in thâ—se they condescend unto uâ— for tâ—e lawfulnesse of the thingâ— in themselves and in respâ—ct of the law of God anâ— oâ—pose them onely in regaâ—d of their conveniencie and for that the Church of Rome hath otherwise ordaâ—ned But see our â—ffiâ—mations content them not To the Scriptures theâ— addâ— and equalize unwritâ—en Traditions to â—he Hebrâ—w Canon the Apocrypha to Faith in the act of Iuâ—â—ification works to Heaven and Hell Purgaâ—oâ—ie Limbus Patrum and Limbus Pueroâ—um to the woâ—ship of God in spirit Images to Prayer to God by Chriâ—t Iâ—vocation and Intercession of Sâ—inâ—s to Bapâ—isme and â—he Lords Supper five other Sacramâ—nts to the Realiâ—ie of Christ in the Sacramenâ— his Coâ—porall presence to tâ—e Sacrifice of Châ—ist upon the Crosâ—e â—he Sacrifice in tâ—e Masse witâ— other like and these wee deny as beâ—ng Corrupt Additions to the Faith These be our grounds wherein we enter-common with them and these be their additions and improvements which they have raised and enclosed upon the Lords Freehold Let us briâ—fely survey them both Bellâ—â—mâ—ne is confidâ—nt that The Apostles never used to Preach openly to the people other things than the Articles of the Apostles Creâ—dâ— the ten Commanâ—â—mâ—nts and some of the Sacraments because saith he these are simply necessary and profitable for all men the rest besides such as that a man may be saved without them If one worship God without an Image they will not deny but that this spirituall worship is acceptable to God If one call upon God alone by the onely mediation of Christ they will not say that this dâ—votion is fruitlesse If one say the Lords Prayer or other devotions in the vulgar tongue they will not deny but that such Prayers as aâ—e made with understanding and in a knowne languagâ— may be fruitfull and effectuall For Lyra saith that If the people understand the prayer of the Priest they are better brought to the knowledge of God and they answâ—r Amen with greater devotion Cardinal Cajetan who had often performed the publike service in an unknowne tongue in the Church yet contrary to his practice professeth It is better by Saint Pauls doctrine for the â—difying of the Church that publike prayers were made in a vulgar tongue to bee understood indifferently by Priâ—sts and people â—han in Latine If a man receive the Sacâ—ament in both kinds they will not I suppose deny but that it is very comfortable to receive boâ—h pâ—rts oâ— the Eucharist Alexander of Hales the first and greatest of all the Schoole mâ—n prâ—fesseâ—h that Though the order of receiving in one kiâ—d bâ— sufâ—icient yet the order of both kinds is of morâ— merit for incâ—ease of devotion and faith If oâ—e peâ—forme the best woâ—kes hee can which wee also require and stand not upon the point of meâ—it but only upon the mercy of God as we doe this likewise serves to justiâ—ie our doctrine for they themselves hold it a Mans safest course not to trust to his owne merits but wholly and solely to cast himselfe on the mâ—rcy of God in Iesus Christ. Now this justifies our Religion and shewes that it is suâ—â—icient to salvation in as much as the grounds thereof setting aside the matters in question betweene us are fully able to instruct a man in all points necessary to his salvation both how to live religiously and to die comfortably Hence also it followeth that by their owne confâ—ssion the controveâ—ted points are unnecessary and superfluous in as much as a man may bee saved who neither knowes nor beleeves nor practises these additions and excesses of theirs Object You talke of our excesses and conceale your owne defects now as the Arch-bishop of Spalato saith Heresie consists in the defect not in the excesse of beleeving and he is an Heretike who falleth short in his faith by not belâ—eving something that is written and not hee that abounds in his faith by beleeving more than is written now you faile in that you scant the measure of your faith Answer The Analogie and integrity of faith is hurt and broken by Addition as well as Subtraction by Diseases as well as by Maimes We are forbidden under the same pâ—naltie either to adde or diminish ought from Gods word Faith is of the nature of a rule or certaine measure to which if any thing be added or taken from it it ceaseth to be that Rule Faith saith Tertullian Is contained in a Rule to know nothing beyond it is to know all thâ—ngs And a little before This first of all wee beleeve that no more ought to be bâ—leeved as necessary to all Vâ—rtue is in the meanâ— vice as well in the excesâ—e as in the defect in our body the superabundance of humours is as dangerous as lacke of them as many dye of Plethories as of Consumptions a hand or foote which hath more fingers or toes than ordinary is alike monstrous as that which wanteth the due number A foundation may bee as well overthrowne by laying on it more than it will beare as by taking away that which is necessary to support the building Errours of addition are dangerous as appeares by these instances following The Samaritanes feared the Lord and served their owne Gods 2. King 17.33 The Galathians beleeved the Gospell yet retained also and observed the legall Ceremonies Galath 4.9 Helvidiuâ— held that blessed Mary had other children unto Ioseph her husband after her sonne Iesus here was an excesse of beliefe for hee beleeved more than was revealed this opinion of Helvidius although it be not denied in the Scripture yet it is erroneous in as much as it is not therein affirmed neither can it bee thence deduced by any good consequence and therefore the
affection as the Scriptures are to be reverenced Is not this to minglâ— water with wine base mettall with good Bullion and so indeed a corrupting of Scripture Besides you have which is fearefull detracted from Gods Word thaâ— which was written with his owne finger to wit the second Commandement against the worship of Images and because the words thereof are sharpe and rip up the heart-strings of your Idolatrie you have therefore omitted them in your Catechismes Prayer bookes and in your Office of the blessed Virgin set foorth by commaund of Pius Quintus and to salve up the matter lest thereby wee should have no more then nine Commaundements you have cut the tenth into two You might well have left the words â—here that Gods people might know there was such a Commandement howsoever they had counted it the first or the second Now as you have detracted so you have added to the rule of Faith by thrusting into the Canon the Apocryphall bookes which Hierome the best languaged of all the Father rejected Lastly you doe not only allow but impose on others a corrupt translation of Scripture to wit the vulgar Latine Edition whereas wee referre our selves to the Originals Now surely wee may better trust an originall Record than a Copie extracted thence and it is more wholesome to drinke at the well-head than at a corrupt and muddie streame Now the Latine Edition which you follow and preferre before all others it is but a Translation it selfe but the Hebrew and Greeke which wee follow are the Well-springs and Originalls Is not this now a manifest corrupting of Scripture to bind all men as your Trent Councell doth that none dare presume to reject this Translation which by your owne men is confessed not to be Saint Hierâ—mes and already showne to be a corrupt one by the learned of our side PA. I looke to have your Professors named PRO. Restore us entire our Evidence which you have marred and made away returne us our Witnesses which you have chained up in your Vatican Library and elsewhere and wee accept your challenge But doe you indeed looke to have our professors named and why so the true Church of God may bee visible though the names of her visible professors from time to time can not be shewed there might be thousands of professors in former ages and yet happily no particular authentick Record of their names now extant or if extant yet so as we cannot come by them Neverthelesse to answere you at your owne weapon I hope to make it cleare that God hath dealt so graciously with his Church as that he hath continually preserved sufficient testimonies of his truth that are ready to be deposed on our side and that successively from age to age so that I may say as Saint Ambrose did in the like case You may well blot out our Letters but our Faith you shall never abolish Papists may conceale our evidence and wipe out the names of our Professors out of the Records but when all is done the Protestants faith is perpetuall Now in that we yeeld thus farre to their importunitie we doe not this as if it were simply necessary for the Demonstration of our Church to produce such a Catalogue of visible Professors in all Ages but onely out of the confidence of the truth of our cause and partly to stop the mouth of our clamorous adveâ—saries For it is Tertullians Rule that A Church is to bee accounted Apostolike if it hold Consanguinitie of Doctrine with the Apostles Now what though we could noâ— successively name such as taught as we doe yet because God hath promised there should be alwaies in the world a true Church having either a larger or smaller number of Prosessors it sufficeth that we are able out of Scripture to demonstrate that we maintaine the same Faith and Religion which the holy Apostles taught and Christ would have to be perpetuall this I say sufficeth to manifest our Succession although all Histories were silent of the names of our Professors Now that I am to speake of the Church in her severall and successive Centuries and Ages to give the Reader some Character and touch thereof I will beginne with the fiâ—st 600. yeares next after Christ wherein ten severall times during the fiâ—st three Centuries the Church was persecuted by Tyrants and almost continually assaulted by Heretikes yet in the end Truth prevailed against Error and Patience overcame her Persâ—cutors This is the time wherein our learned Bishop Iewell challenged the Papists to shew any Orthodoxe Father Councell or Doctor that for the space of those 600 Yeares taught as the present Church of Rome did the like challenge was lately renued by my deare friend that worthy Divine Doctor Featly of Oxford challenging the Iesuits to produce out of good Authors any Citie Parish or Hamlet within 500. yeares next after Christ wherein there was any visible assembly that maintained in generall the Articles of the Trent Councell or such and such points of Popery as at the Conference hee named in particular Now of this period the first 300. yeares thereof were the very flower of the Primitive Church because that in theâ—e dayes the truth of the Gospell was infallibly taught by Christ and his Apostles and that in their owne persons as also by otheâ—s that lived to heare see and converse with those blessed Apostles and disciples of Christ Iesus and this haply made Egesippus an ancient Authour call the Church of those dayes an uncorrupt and virgin Church and yet was this virgin Church ill intreated by such a sowed the tares of errour which yet the carefull husbandman in time weeded up neither indeed for the space of these first 300 could those Tenets of Poperie get any footing their Papall Indulgences were yet unhatched their purgatory fire was yet unkindled it made not as afterwards their pot boyle and their kitchin smoake the Masse was yet unmoulded Transubstantiation was yet unbaked the treasury of Merits was yet unminted the Popes transcendent power was uncreated Ecclesiastickes were unexempted and deposing of Kings yet undreamed of the Lay-people were not yet couzned of the cup Communion under one kinde was not yet in kinde it was not then knowne that Liturgies and prayers were usually and publikely made in a tongue unknowne they did not then worship and adore any wooden or breaden god they worshipt that which they knew and that in Spirit and truth and they called on him in whom they beleeved so did they and so doe wee In a word in the former ages of the Church Satan was bound after the thousandth yeare hee was loosed and after the middle of the second Millenary about the yeare 1370 hee was bound anew Concerning the Churches estate in the next five hundred yeares it grew very corrupt so that of these times we may say as Winefridus borne at Kirton in Devonshire after surnamed Boniface was
to them nor worship them saith also thou shalt not make to thy selfe any graven Image PRO. Our learned Bishop White hath answered for 〈◊〉 the Ground and Proposition of this argument saith he is falâ—e for worshipping of Images is forbidden as the principall object of that negative precept and as a thing Morally evill in his very kind but making them is forbidden onely when it is a meanes subservient to worship and because it may be separated both in his owne nature and in mans intention from that end and use therefore the one is simply forbidden and the othâ—r is onely prohibited when it becommeth a meanes or instrument to other for we mislike not pictures or Images for historicall use and ornament now this distinction and disparitie betweene making and woâ—shipping is comfirmed by the example of the â—razen Serpent made by Gods owne appointment for when the same was onely made and looked upon it was a Medicine when it was worshipped it bâ—came a poyson and was destroyed To proceedâ— the Church of Rome holds that the Saints raigning with Christ are to be worshipped and prayâ—d unto but this we hold is not warranted by Gods word but rather repugnant to it for we are commanded to invocate God in the name of Christ and our Saviour himselfe inviteth us to approach with confidence to the throne of his grace he is rich in mercie to such as call upon him and more compassionate better able and more willing to helpe us than any Saint or Angel and he is appointed by God to be our Intercessour We reade in the new Testament many examples of people which made supplication immediately unto Christ but not of one which made intercession to the Virgin Mary or to the blessed Saints or Angels And if any question with this our negative concluding from Scripture Saint Hierome upon occasion did the like saying we beleeve it not because we reade it not I will close up this point with that advise which Ignatius gave the Virgins of his time not to direct their prayers and supplications to Saints or Angâ—ls but to the Trinity onely O ye Virgins have Christ alone before your eyes and his Father in your Prayers being enlightned by the spirit Of Faith and Merit The Trent Councâ—l accurseth all such as say that a siâ—ner is justified by Faith onâ—ly or deny that the good workes of holy men doe truly Merit everlasting life our reformâ—d Churches hold that wee are accounted righteous bâ—fore God onely for the Merit of Iesus Christ applyed by Faithâ— and not for our workes or Merits And when we say that we are justified by Faith onely we doe not meane that the said justifying Faith is alone in man without true repentance hope charity and the feare of God for such a Faith is dead and cannot justifie Even as when we say that the eye onely seeth wee doe not meane that the eye severed from the head doth see but that it is the onely propâ—rtie of the eye to see Neither doth this Faith of Christ which is within us of it selfe justifie us or deserve our justâ—fication unto us for that were to account our selves to be justified by the vertue or dignity of something within our selves but the true meaning therâ—of is that although we heare Gods Word and beleeve it although wee have Faith Hope Charity Repentance and the fâ—are of God within us yet we must renounce the Merit of all our vertues and good deedes as farre too weake and unsufficient to deserve remission of our Sinnes and uâ— justification and therefore we must trust onely in Gods mercie and the Merits of our only Saviour and justiâ—ier Iesus Christ. Neverthelesse because Faith doth directly send us to Christ for our justification and that by Faith given us of God we embâ—ace the promise of Gods mercie and the remission of our Sinnes which thing none other of our vertues or workes properly doth therefore the Scripture useth to say that Faith without workes and the ancient Fathers of the Church to the same purpose that onely Faith doth justifie us Now for the Poynt of Merit it is neither agreeable to Scripture nor reason for we cannot Merit of him whom we gratifiâ— not we cannot gratifie a man with his owne now all our good is Gods already his gift his proprietie What have we that we have not received saith the Apostle not our Talent onely but the improvement also is his meere bounty there can be therefore no place for Merit PA. Wee hold the ancient Romane Faith PRO. That is not so as may appeare by these instances Saint Paul taught his Romanes that our Eleâ—â—ion is of Gods free grace and not ex operibus praevisis of workes fore-seene He taught that we are justified by Faith onely we conclude that we are justified by Faâ—th without the workâ—s of the Law which is all one as to say a man is justified by Faith onely He taught that eternall life is the gift of God and therefore not due to the Merit of workes that the good workes of the Regenerate are not of their owne condignitie meritorious nor such as can deserve heaven and the sufferings there expressed are Maâ—tyrdomes sanctified by grace He condemned Images though made to resemble the true God and taught that to bow the knee religiously to an Image or to worship any creature is meère Idolatry He taught that we must not pray unto any but unto God onely in whom we beleeve and therefore not to Saints or Angels since we beleeve not in them He taught that concupiscence is a Sinne even in the regenerate and Possevine the Iesuit confesseth that Saint Paul called it so but saith he we may not call it so He taught that the Imputed righteousnesse of Christ is that onely that maketh us just before God Thus taught Saint Paul thus the ancient Romanes beleeved from this Faith our latter Romanists are departed Here then let the Reader judge whether it be likely that Saint Paul who as Theodoret saith delivered doctrine of all sorts and very exactly handled the Points thereof should neverthelesse writing at large to the Romane Church not once mention those maine points wherein the life of Poperie consists namely the Popes Monarchical Iurisdiction Transubstantiation Communion in one kinde Service in an unknowne tongue Popes pardons Image worship and the like if the Church of Rome were then the same that now a dayes it is Now if these points mentioned were no Articles of Faith in the ancient Romane Church in Saint Pauls dayes when their Faith was spoken of throughout the whole world then they be not Articles of Faith at this day but onely Additions to the rule of Faith such as the corruption of the times hath patched up and pieced it withall for it is a ruled case in the Schooles that the body of Religion
of the Evangelist what wants it what obscuritie is there in it all things there are full and perfect Saint Basil saith it is a manifest falling from the Faith and an argument of arrogancie either to reject any point of those things that are written or to bring in any of those things that are not written Gregory Nyssen layeth this for a ground which no man should contradict that in that onely the truth must be acknowledged wherein the seale of the Scripture testimonie is to be seene The same Father in an oration of his calleth the Scripture an even streight and inflexible Rule neither mentâ—oneth he any more rules but this onâ— and adding the word ipsa to the Rule he delareth the same to be an adaequate and onely Rule Of the Scripture Canon The Councell of Laodicea saith we ought to reade onely the bookes of the Old and New Testament yea the same Councell recites onely those Canonicall bookes of Scripture which we allow and the Canons of this Councell though a provinciall Councell are confirmed by the sixt generall Councell in Trullo now if it be replied the Laodicean Councell excludes the Apocrypha the Carthaginian Councell receives them and both these were confirmed in the sixt generall Councell held in the Palace called Trullo and how can this stand together the matter is thus reconciled the Laodicean speakes of the Canon of Faith the Carthaginian of the Canon of good manners to both which the sixt Councell subscribed in that sence and we to it To proceed Hilary tells us the Law of the Old Testament is conteined in two and twentie bookes according to the number of the Hebrew letters and Athanasius saith the same and as touching the Apocryphall bookes as namely the booke of Wisedome Maccabees and the rest he saith Libri non sunt Canonici they are read onely to the Caetechumens or novices in Religion but are not Canonicall Epiphanius after he had reckoned up the Canon of two and twentie bookes censureth the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesiasâ—icus in these words they are fit and profitable but not reckoned amongst those bookes which are received by our Church and therefore were neither laid up with Aaron nor in the Arke of the New Testament Ruffinus in his explanation of the Creede which is found among Saint Cyprians workes and so attributed to him setteth downe the Catalogue conteining all those bookes which we admit secluding all those that are now in question wee must know saith he that there be also other bookes which are not Canonicall but are called of our Ancestors Ecclesiasticall as is the Wisedome of Salomon Ecclesiasticus Tobias Iudith and the bookes of Maccabees all which they will indeed have to be read in the Church but not to be alledged for Confirmation of Faith To this testimonie of Ruffin Canus a Popish writer thus replieth although Ruffin did affirme that the bookes of Maccabees were to be rejected by the tradition of the Fathers yet by the Readers leave he was ignorant of that Tradition as if Canus a late writer were better skilled in the Primitive tradition than Ruffinus or Cyprian Gregorie Nazianzen nameth all the bookes that wee admit save that he omitteth the booke of Hester being misperswaded of the whole by reason of those Apocryphall additions to it Now Bellarmine would shift off such testimonies as these by saying it was no fault in them to reject these bookâ—s because no generall Councell in their dayes had decreed any thing touching them But we aske how it came to passe that so many Catholike Divines after this pretended decree of their Canon rejected these bookes as others had done before for some in every Age rejected thâ—m Of Communion under both and number of Sacraments Gregory Nazianzene saith of his sister Gorgonia in this manner if her hand had laid up any portion of the types or tokens of the precious body and of the bloud he saith that his sister after she had communicated she laid up some part of the Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ now as she kept the consecrated bread in a cloth so she might carry the wine in a viall howsoever this religious woman received in both kinds The same Nazianzen bids reverence the Lords Table to which thou hast accesse the bread whereof thou hast beene partaker the cup which thou hast communicated being initiated in the passions of Christ. Athanasius being accused for breaking a Chalice writeth thus What manner of Cup or when or where was it broken in every house there are many Pots any of which if a man breake he committeth not sacriledge but if any man willingly break the sacred Chalice he committs sacriledge but that Chalice is no where but where there is a lawfull Bishop This is the use destin'd to that Chalice none other wherein you according to institution doe drinke unto and before the Laity This was the custome in Athanasius his dayes Saint Ambrose speakes to a great secular Prince Theodosius in this sort How dare you lift up to him those hands from which the blood yet droppeth will you receive with them the sacred body of our Lord or how will you put in your mouth his precious bloud who in the commanding fury of your wrath have wickedly shed so much innocent bloud The same Saint Ambrose in his Treatise that hee wholly set apart for the laying foorth of the Doctrine of the Sacraments specifyeth not any other than either those two of ours Baptisme and the Lords Supper and yet wee have of his as they are divided sixâ— bookes de Sacramentis of the Sacraments And so I come to treat of the Sacrament Of the Eucharist PA. You have produced Hilarie and Cyril of Hierusalem on your side whereas they make for us in the poynt of the Sacrament Saint Hâ—larie sayth nos verè verbum carnem cibo Dominico sumimus Hil. l. 8. de Trinitate PRO. Hilaries testimony was much urged by Mr. Musket Priest and was notably cleered by Doctour Featly in the second dayes disputation now to the place alleadged he sayth The Word truely became Flesh truely to wit by Faith and Spiritually not with the mouth and carnally Objection These words of Hilarie Sub Sacramento communicandae carnis and the like following nos verè sub mysterio carnem corporis sui sumimus wee truely receive the Flesh of his body under a mystery prove the reall presence of Christs flesh under the formes of bread and wine Answer Saint Hilarie by the words Sub Sacramento and sub mysterio carnem sumimus meaneth nothing but that in a mystery or Sacramentally we eate the true flesh of the Sonne of God sub mysterio is no more than in mysterio that is mystically under a similitude in a similitude or after a resemblance Object St. Hilarie sayth in the booke alleadged de veritate carnis sanguinis non est relictus ambigendi locus
who set forth Eusebius Now Eusebius hath no such thing as is pretended his words in his owne language are these It is our custome to come to the Tombes and Monuments of the Martyrs and to make our prayers at or befâ—re those Shrines or Tombes and to honour those blessed soules Plâ—â—saith they used 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to present themseâ—ves at the Martyrs Tombes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and to make their prayers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those Toâ—bes and Monuments he saith not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to these Martyrs as Bellarmine would have it It is onething to pray ad memorias Martyrum before or neere the Sepulchers of â—he Martyrs as ancieÌ„tly they were wont to doe another thing to say as our adversariâ—s doe that these Prayeâ—s were made unto the Martyrs themselves the truth is they were made unto God to pâ—aise him for the assistaâ—ce given unto the Martyrs and to crave of God the like Gâ—ace 4. Fâ—urthly and lastly Eusebius in the same treatise doth fully expreâ—se himselfe touching this matter saying We are taught to worship God onely and to honour those blessed Powers that are about him with such honour as is fit and agreeable to their â—state and condition and againe To God onely will we give the worship due unâ—o his name and him onely doe we religiouslie worship and adore Object Saint Ephraim the Syrian saith Wee pray you O yeâ— blâ—ssed Spirits vouchsafe to make intercession to God for us miserable sinners Answer The learned take exceptions at this Ephraim as being a counterfeit lately brought to light and not set forth in his native language but taught to speake in the Roman tongue â—ut bee it that it is the true Saint Ephraem yet hee saith nothing directly for praying to Saints for it is but an Apostrophe in generall which infeâ—reth no coâ—â—lusion aâ— all noâ— is it directed to any one peculiar Saint bâ—t â—o the Saints iâ— geneâ—all Now it is conâ—essed that they pray to God Pro nobis miseris peccatoribus and this their bâ—other-like affâ—ction and Saint-like performance is an â—speciall paâ—t of the Communion of Saints Besides Ephraem take him as hee commâ—th to our hands delivereth that which overthroweâ—h Saintly Invocatioâ— for hee prayeth to God onely without mentioâ—ing any Saint at all yea hee saith expresly That hee knoweth no other save God to whom hee should present his prayers and yet more fully saying Tibi soli redemptori supplico To thee only my Saviour and Redeemer I make my prayer and supplication And thus speakes Ephraem when once he is out of his pâ—osopopeiaes and Rhetoricall compellations his paâ—egyâ—icks and commendatorie orations of the Saints Of Iustification by Faith onely Concerning Iustification by Faith onely Saint Ambrose or some of the same standing with Ambrose is cleare and plentifull throughout his Commentaries on Saint Pauls Epistles They are justified by faith alone by the gift of God yea hee farther saith No worke of the Law but onely faith is to bee given in Christ's cause Saint Hilarie saith That which the Law could not unloose is remitted by Christ for faith alone justifieth Saint Basil saith That it is true and perfect rejoycing in the Lord when a man is not puffed up with his owne righteousnesse but acknowledgeth his want thereof yet râ—joyceth that hee is justified by faith alone in Christ. By this that hath beene said it appeareth that when wee say Faith onely justifieth wee have not departed from the doctrine of the ancient Fathers in this point of Iustification Of Merit Concerning Merit Saint Ambrose saith Whence should I have so great merit seeing mercy is my crowne and againe What can wee doe worthy of the heavenly rewards the sâ—ffâ—ringâ— of this time are uâ—worthy for the glory tâ—â—t is to come therefore the forme of heavâ—nly Decrees doth proceed with men not according to our meâ—its but according to Gods mercy Basil saith Everlasting rest is layd up for them that strive lawfully in this life not to bee rendred according to the dâ—bt of workes but exhibited by the grace of the bountifull God to them that trust in him Macarius the Aegyptian Hermite touching the gift which Christians shall inherit averreth That this a man may rightly say that if any one from the time wherein Adam was created unto the very end of the world did fight against Satan and undergoe afflictions hee should doe no great matter in respect of the glory that hee shall inherit for heâ— shall reigne together with Christ world without end PA. You produced Saint Cyril of Hierusalem as if he should witnesse for you whereas hee is ours and your Mr. Cooke tellâ—th us that Bellarmine often alleadgeth him on our behalfe PRO. The learned make question whether Cyril or Iohn B. of Hierusalem were the Author of those Catechismes and surely in some part thereof there bee divers things unworthy of that ancient and learned Cyril who is the more to be beloved of the Orthodoxe as he was greatly hated of the Aâ—rians yet even in these Catechismes take them as they come to our hands Master Rivet a learned and judicious Divine finds many testimonies that make for us and against the Papists For instance sake Cyril in his Catechisme having numbred all the bookes of the old Testament omitteth all those that are controverted and saith Peruse the two and twenty bookes but meddle not with the Apocrypha meditate diligently upon those Scriptures which the Church doth confidently read and use no other Hee saith That the safetie and preservation of faith consists not in the eloquence of words but in the proofe of divine Scripture The same Cyril saith Receive the body of Christ with a hallow hand saying Amen and after the partaking of the body of Christ come also to the cup of the Lord. The same Cyril saith that the words my Body were Spoken of the bread Christ thus avoucheth and saith of the Bread this is my Body He resembleth the consecrated oyle wherewith their foreheads were annoynted to the consecrated bread in the Eucharist Looke saith he Thou doe not thinke it to be onely bare and simple oyle for even as the consecrated bread after prayer and invocation is no more common bread but Christs body so the holy oyle is no more bare and simple oyle or common but Charisma the gift of Grace whence as Master Rivet saith wee may thus argue as is the change in the oyle such there is in the Eucharist but in the oyle there is no change in substance but use and sanctification by grace and therefore there is no substantiall change or conversion in the Elements of bread and wine when they become the body and blood of Christ. Objection Saint Cyril saith Know you for a surety that the bread which is seene of us is not bread though the taste
Church as if Saint Peter whose successour he pretends to be had hâ—ld the Apostolike chayre as it weâ—e in Fee for him and his Successours for ever and the other eleven had held theiâ—s for terme of life onely And now to looke homâ—waâ—ds to our Britaine in this Age we find our auâ—cestors besides their common enemies the Scots Picts and Saxons troubled with another more secret but as dangerous to wiâ— the Pelagian heresie wherewith Pelagius a Romane Monke borne in Little Britaine with his Disciple Celestius beganne to infect these Northerne parts But after they and their heresies were condemned in the Councels of Carthage and Mela Pope Celestine sent Palladius into Scotland as also our neighbours the French bishops at the request of the Catholique English sâ—nt Germanus bishop of Aâ—xerre and Lupus bishop of Troys in Champeigne into England to beat downe Pelagianisme which they happily suppressed Now also there was a Provinciall Councel held in Britaine for the reforming of Religion and repairing of the ruin'd Churches which the Pagan marriage of Vortiger had decayed to the great griâ—fe of the people A plaine token that their zeale continued evâ—n unto those dayâ—s for so it was whiles Vortiger a British Prince marryed with the fayre but Infidel Rowena Hengists daughter this Saxon match had almost undone both Church and State whilest as Bede complaines Priest's were slaine standing at the Altar and bishops with thâ—ir flocks weâ—e murdered till at length they assembled a Councel to repayre those decayes which this marriage had made Now to close up this Age the Reader may observe that we have surveyed the first foure Generall Councels which Gregorie the Great proâ—essed that he â—mbraced as the foure Gospels and indeed they were called agâ—inst those foure Arch-heretickes that pestered the Câ—urch the first was hâ—ld at Nice against Arrius a Priâ—st of Alâ—xandria who held that Christ was neither God nor eternall but an excellent creature created before all creatures The second at Constantinople against Macedonius who held that Christ was not of the same essence not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 consubstantiall and of the same substance with the Father but onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like to him and that the Holy Ghost was not God but Gods Minister and a creature not eternall The third at Ephâ—suâ— against Nestorius who held that Christ had two severall persons but not two wills and that the Virgin Mary was not to be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the mother of God but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Mother of Christ. The fourth at Chalcedon where Dioscorus and Eutyches were condemned This Eutyches confuting Nestorius fell into other heresies and confounded the two natures of Christ making him after his union to have but the divine nature onely Besides the Reader may farther observe that upon the survey of these first foure Generall Councells so much esteemed by S. Gregory it is found that they confined the bishop of Rome to his bounds with other Patriarkes and they equalled other Patriarchall Seas to the Romane so that hereby is discovered the vanity of Campian's flourish saying Generall Councells are all ours the first and the last and the middle For we imbrace such Generall Councells as were held in those golden Ages within the first sixe hundâ—ed yeares or thereabouts The middle ranke beginning at the second Nicene unto the Councell of Florence held in the Ages of the mingled and confused Church they are neither wholly theirs nor ours The two last the one at Lateran the other at Trâ—nt these being held by the drosse of the Church are theirs AN APPENDIX to the fiâ—th CENTVRIE Of the Fathers Authoritie PAPIST YOu have produced the Fathers for these five or sixe hundred yeares as if they had beene of your Faith whereas you dissent from thâ—m and refuse their tryall but wee honour them and appeale to the joynt coâ—sent of Anâ—iquity PROTESTANT Where wee seâ—me to vary from them it is eithâ—r in things humane arbitrarie and indifferent or in matters not fully discussed by the ancient or in poynts which were not delivered by joynt consent of the ancient or in things which are reproved by plaine demonstration of holy Scripture and wherein the Fathers permit liberty of dissenting and the Papists themsâ—lves usually take it Neither would Saint Austine the faiâ—est flower of Antiquity have his Reader follow him farther than hee followeth the Truth not denying but that as in his maners so in his writings many things might justly be taxed Neither doe we refuse the triall of the Fathers truely alleadged and rightly understood witnesse the challenge made by Bishop Iewell and seconded by Doctor Whitaker and Doctor Featly yea Doctor Whitaker as Scultetus observeth was confident That the Fathers although in some matters they be variable and partly theirs partly ours yet in the materiall poynts they be wholly ours and theirs in matters of lesser moment and some few Tenets Likewise that great light of Oxford Doctor Reinolds in his Conference with Master Hart solemnely protested that in his opinion not one of all the Fathers was a Papist for saith he The very being and essence of a Papist consists in the opinion of the Popes supremacie but the Popes supremacie was not allowed by any of the Fathers as he there proveth against Hart not one then of all the Fathers was a Papist PA. May wee not ground our Faith upon the Fathers Testimonies PRO. Wee reverence the ancient Fathers but still with reservation of the respect wee owe to that Ancient of dayes Daniel 7.6 their father and ours who taught young Elihu Iob. 32.6 to reprove his Ancients even holy Iob amongst them Iob 33.12 him alone doe we acknowledge for the father of our Faith on whom wee may safely ground in things that are to bee believed For every Article of Christian Faith must bee grounded on divine revelation but all opinions of the Fathers are not divine revelations neither doe the Fathers challenge to themselves infallibility of judgement Sâ—int Austine saith This reverence and honour have I learnt to give to those Bookes of Scripture onely which are called Canonicall that I most firmely believe none of their Authors could any whit erre in writing But others I so reade that with how great sanctity and learning soever they doe excell I therefore thinke not any thing to be true because they sâ— thought it but because they were able to perswade me either by those Canonicall Authours or by some probâ—ble reason that it did not swerve from truth Neither doe our Adversaries yield infâ—llibilâ—ty of judgement tâ— the Fathers Baronius saith The Church doth not alwayes and in all things follow the Fathers interpretation of Scripture Bellarmine saith Their writings are no rules of Faith neither have they authority to binde Canus tells us That the ancient Fathers sometime erre and against the ordinary course of nature bring forth
of weake abilities and also for that they had made a booke which they called the everlasting Gospell whereunto they said Christs Gospell was not to be compared Pope Alexander the fourth was content upon complaint made unto him that the Friers booke should be burned provided that it were done covertly and secretly and so as the Friers should not be discredited thereby and as for William of Saint Amour hee dealt sharply with him commanding his booke to be burnt as also he suspended from their benefices and promotions all such as either by word or writing had opposed the Friers untill such time as they should revoke and recant all such speeches and writings at Paris or other places appointed so tender was his holines over the Friers credit and reputation knowing belike what service might be done to him and his successours by these newly errected orders of â—riers I call them newly erected for in the time of Pope Innocent the third about the yeare 1198 the Iacobites an order of preaching Friers were instituted by Saint Dominicke and about the beginning of this age the order of Franciscans preaching Friers Minors was instituted by Saint Francis borne at Assise a towne in Italy Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon SCoâ—us saith that supernaturall knowledge as much as is necessarie for a wayfaring man is sufficiently delivered in sacred Sâ—ripture Thomas Aquinas in his commentary upon that place of Saint Paul the Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation that the man of God may be perfect 2 Timoth. 3.15.17 saith that the Scriptures doe not qualifie a man aâ—ter an ordinarie sort but they perfit him so that nothing is wanting to make him happy And accordingly Bonaventure saith The beneâ—it of sâ—ripture is not ordinarie but such as is able to make a man fully blessed and happy Hugo Cardinalis speaking of the bookes rejected by us saith These bookes are not received by the Church for proofe of doctrine but for information of manners Of Communion under both kindes and nâ—mber of Sacraments ALexander Hales howsoever he some way incline to that opinion that it is sufficient to receive the Sacrament in one kind yet he confesseth that there is more merit and devotion and compleatnesse and efficacie in receiving in both Againe hee saith Whole Christ is not sacramentally conteined under each forme because the bread signifieth the body and not the blood the wine signifieth the blood and not the body Concerning the Churches practise wee doe not finde that the lay people were as yet barred of the cup in the holy Sacrament for our Countrey-man Alexander Hales who flourished about the yeare of Grace 1240. saith that we may receive the body of Christ under the forme of bread onely sicut fere ubique fit à Laicis in ecclesiâ as it is almost every where done of the Laiety in the Church it was almost done every where but it was not done every where Concerning the Sacraments the Schoolemen of this age can hardly agree amongst themselves that there be seaven Sacraments properly so called Alexander of Hales saith that there are onely â—oure which are in any sort properly to be sayd Sacraments of the new Law that the other three supposed Sacraments had their being before but received some addition by Christ manifested in the flesh that amongst them which began with the new Covenant onely Baptisme and the Eucharist were instituted immediately by Christ received their formes from him and flowed out of his wounded side Touching Confirmation the same Alexander of Hales saith the Sacrament of Confirmation as it is a Sacrament was not ordained either by Christ or by the Apostles but afterwards was ordained by the Councell of Meldain France Touching extreame unction Suarez saith that both Hugo of Saint Victor in Paris and Peter Lombard and Bonaventure and Alexander of Hales and Altissidorus the cheefe schoolemen of their time denyed this Sacrament to be instituted by Christ and by plaine consequence saith he it was no true Sacrament though they were of opinion that a Sacrament might be instituted by the Apostles and therefore admitted not of this consequence Of the Eucharist COncerning the Eucharist Scotus saith that it was not in the beginning so manifestly beleeved as concerning this coversion But principally this seemeth to move us to hold Transubstantiation because concerning the Saraments we are to hold as the Church of Rome doth And hee addeth wee must say the Church in the Creed of the Lateran councell under Innocent the third which begins with these words Firmiter credimus declared this sence concerning Transubstantiation to belong to the veritie of our faith And if you demaund why would the Church make choice of so difficult a sence of this Article when the words of the Scripture This is my Body might be upholden after an easie sence and in appearance more true I say the Scriptures were expounded by the same spirit that made them and so it is to be supposed that the catholike Church expounded them by the same spirit whereby the faith was delivered us namely being taught by the spirit of truth and therefore it chose this sence because it was true thus farre Scotus Let us now see what Bellarmie saith Scotus tells us saith he that before the Councell of Lateran which was held in the yeare one thousand two hundred and fifteene transubstantiation was not beleeved as a point of faith this is confessed by Bellarmine to be the opinion of Scotus onely he would avoyd his testimonie with a minime probandum est Scotus indeed saith so but I cannot allow of it and then hee taxeth Scotus with want of reading as if this learned and subtile Doctor had not seene as many Councels and read as many Fathers for his time as Bellarmine The same Bellarmine saith that Scotus held that there was no one place of scripture so expresse which without the declaration of the Church would evidently compell a man to admit of Transubstantiation and this saith the Cardinall is not altogether improbable It is not altogether improbable that there is no expresse place of Scripture to proove Transubstantiation without the declaration of the Church as Scotus sayd for although the Scriptures seeme to us so plaine that they may compell any but a refractary man to beleeve them yet it may justly be doubted whether the Text be cleare enough to enforce it seeing the most acute and learned men such as Scotus was have thought the contrary thus farre Bellarmine unto whom I will adde the testimonie of Cuthbert Tonstall the learned Bishop of Durham His words are these Of the manner and meanes of the Reall presence either by Transubstantiation or otherwise perhaps it had beene better to leave every man that would be curious to his owne conjecture as before the councell of Lateran it was left and Master Bernard Gilpin a man most holy and
Trithemij Epist. Familiar in 1. part opeâ—is Histor. Trithem Francof 1601. Fran. Turrian Denfens Canon Epistol Decretall Lut. 1573. Tyndarus de test extat in tom 4. tract illust juris consult Venet 1584. V. Greg. de Valentia in Sum. Aquinat tom quart Paris 1609. De reb Fidei controvers Lugd. 1591. Laur. Valla de Constantini Donatione in Fascic rer expetendar fugiend Colon. 1535. Gabr. Vasquez Disput. in tert part S. Thom. tom prim Ingolstad 1610. tom 3. Antuerp 1614. In primam Secundae Aquinat tom secundus Ingolstad 1612. Vaux his Catechisme Antwerp 1574. S. Vdalric de Coelibatu Cleri inteâ— monum S. Patr. Orthodoxographa edit per Io. Iac. Gryn Basil. 1569. And. Vega his opuscula de Iustificat Compl. 1564. Ferd. Velosillus his Advertent Theolog. Venet. 1601. B. Victor de persecut Vandalicâ Par. 1569. in tom 7. Biblioth vet Patr. Par. 1589. Hugo de S. Vistore opera in 3 tom Venet. 1588. Blas Viegas his commentar in Apocalyp Lugd. 1602. Nic. Vignier Recueil de l'Histoire de l'eglife A. Leyden 1601. Vincentius Belluacens opera ejus in 4. tom Venet. 1591. Pet. de Vineis lib. 6. Epistolar Ambergae 1609. Polyd. Virgilius de Rerum Inventor Fr. 1599. Vita Bernardi Gilpini per Georg. Carleton Episcop Cicistrens Lond. 1628. Rich. Vitus Basingstoch Histor. lib. 8. Atreb 1597. Io. Ludov. Vivâ—s de Disciplinis Lugd. 1551. Luâ— Vives Scholia in Augustin de Civit. Dei in tom ejus quint Basil. 1569. Iac. de Voragine Sermones 1501. Zachar. Vrsin Catechet explicat Lond. 1596. Conrad à Lichtena Abbas Vrspergensis Chron Paraleipom Fr. 1599. Iac. Vsserius de Christianarum Ecclesiar Successione Statu Lond. 1613. Iac. Vsserij Gotteschalcus Dublin 1631. Veter Epistolar Hibernic Sylloge Dublin 1632. His Answer to the Iesuites Challenge London 1631. Of the Religion professed by the ancient Irish London 1931. His Sermon at Wansted and before the Commons House of Parliament London 1631. W. Walafr Strabo Quaere Strabo Io. Paul Perrin his History of the Waldenses Lond. 1624. Wessembecij oratio de Waldensib extat in Joachimi Camerarij narratione de Fratrum Orthodox ecclesijs in Bohemiâ Heidelbergae 1605. Tho. Waldensis opera Venet. 1571. Tho. Walsingham Histor. Anglor Francof 1602. Wessâ—lus Gronigens de potestate Papae Matâ—ria Indulgentiar Hanov. 1612. Math. Westmonasteriens Flores London 1570. Whitakeri opera Gen. 1610. Fr. White Bp. his Reply to Iesuite Fisher London 1624. The Orthodox Faith London 1617. I. Wiclefs Conformitie with the Church of England by Tho. Iames Oxford 1608. Wiclefs Treatises against Friers published by Tho. Iames and printed according to the ancient Manuscript Copie remaining in the publike Library at Oxford Oxford 1608. Io. Wolfius Lection memorabil Lauvingae 1600. Z. Hieron Zanchij tomus sept Neostad 1605. Io. Zonaras Histor. in tom 3. Gr. Lat. Basil. 1557. FINIS Errata siâ— corrâ—ge In Epist. Ded. pag. 1. lin ult reade antedated pag. 2. lin 16. no râ—so In Praef. ad Lect. pag. 4. lin 2. and speâ—ke r. being to speake In Catal. test in the 5. Age lin 2. dele Andrew Rivet lin 10. B. of Cyrene r. B. of Cyrus or Cyria In the first Alphabet Pag. 7. lin penult r. they practise p. 18. in marg li. 17. r. 1590. pag. 35. lin 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pag. 39. in marg li. 21. cap. r. cont pag. 42. l. 19. other r. the other pag. 55. l. 25. Christ r. God p. â—9 l. 5. learned r. taught pag. 76. lin 12. adde and we truely eat the word flesh pag. 78. l. ult substance r. person pag. 16â— lin 2. haec r. he viz. pag. 182. lin 15. were condemned r. were not condemned pag. 237. lin 2. glorifieth r. glorieth In the second Alphabet Pag. 14. in marg lin 1. nulluum r. nullum p. 31. l. 28. r. by a straine pag. 32. lin 24. dele as pag. 34. lin 31. saith r. hath pag. 51. in marg lin 14. r. sibi ipsi pag. 62. lin 3. r. I used pag. 84. in marg l. 13. r. salvatione pa. 100 in marg l. 8. r. tenuerim pag. 116. l. 14. r. heare pag. 123. l. 31. remaine r. to be abolished pag. 155. liu 29. universall r. easterne pa. 161. lin 13. did r. I did in marg lin 4. xiiij r. xij pag. 197. lin 24. many r. may pag. 204. lin 2. 60. r. 600. pag. 206. lin 1. god r. good The nine Articles of Religion handled in the severall Centuries of this Treatise are these 1 Concerning the Scriptures sufficiencie 2 Of the Scripture Canon 3 Of Communion in both kindes 4 Of the number of Sacraments 5 Concerning the Eucharist 6 Touching Worship of Images 7 Concerning Invocation of Saints departed 8 Of Iustification 9 Of Merits By the way arâ— handled The Popes Supremacie The power of Calling Councills Appeales to Rome Priestes Marriage c. THE PREFACE TO THE PROTESTANTS EVIDENCE PAPIST GOod morrow Neighbour are you going to Church so early PROTESTANT I am Sir and I should bee glad of your company PAP So should I be of yours but I doubt wee goe not to the same Church PRO. I am going to a Protestant Church and I take that to be a true member of the Catholike PAP It is not for the true Church is ever gloriously visible and had visible Professors in all ages but yours was not in being saith Father Brereley untill Luthers dayes and Father Campian calls to witnesse res omnes reculas all things both great and small things and thinglings that never any other Religion but the Catholike tooke any deepe root upon the face of the earth And hee saith further That one cannot spie out so much as one towne one village one house for fifteene hundred yeeres that savoured of your doctrine And Iesuite Coster saith It is manifestly evident that none in the universall world before Luther in the yeere 1517 held that Faith which Luther and Calvins Schollers professed PROT. This is but a vaine â—lourish of the Iesuites and controuled by their owne man Bristow who acknowledgeth that some there have been in many ages in some points of the Protestants opinion Now for our Tenet this it is The Church that is the societie of Christian people professing saving faith is never totally hidden but there bee still some that hold the right faith and deliver it over to others and yet in time of persecution and the like cases the Church is not alwayes so conspicuous as that a man seeing her outward pompe and ceremonies may poynt her out and safely joyne himselfe to such a company for thus Bellarmine makes the Church to be a Societie subjecting themselves to the See of Rome teaching trueth without errour and this Companie as visible as are the Citizens of Rome Now for the Protestant Church though it have not bin alwayes gloriously visible yet it hath been evermore so visible as the true Church ought to be PAP Saint
Austin saith He hath set his Tabernacle in the Sun Is not the Church then conspicuous as the Sunne PROT. You may not argue from such Allusions as are taken from the outward pompe of the world thereby to describe the inward beautie of the Church 2. Besides according to the true reading the meaâ—ing is he hath set up a seat for the Sunne in the heavens that there it might be viewed as on a scaffold now this Sunne may be eclypsed 3. Againe this was onely an Allusion which Saint Austin used against the Donatists who pinned up the Church within a corner of Afriâ—k as now the Papists confine her to Rome thereby telling them there were many Churches besides theirs to bee seene as cleare as the Sunne if the Donatists could discerne them 4. Lastly though Austin termed the Church in diebus illis in his owne time to be set as it were in the Sun yet he denies not but that afterwards in declining ages this Sunne might bee darkened and the Church make but small appearance in the time of persecution as the same Father speakes PA. The Church is as a Citie upon an hill a light upon a Candlesâ—icke and therefore conspicuous PRO. 1. This also is an Allusion which yet Saint Chrisostome understands to be meant of the Apostles that they were to looke to their carâ—iage since they were to preach abroad and had many lookeâ—s on 2. Againe though the Church be set on a hill yet as the Aramites could not discerne â—he citie of Samaria whither the Prophet led them till their eyes were opened 2 Kings chap. 6. no more can one discerne or difference the true Church from the malignant and conventicles of the wicked untill his minde be enlightned And thus Austin tolde the Donatists they could not see the Church on the hill because their eyes were blinded to wit either with ignorance or malice In a word this Hill may bee hid with a mist this Sunne obscured with a cloud and the Moone ecclipsed The blessed Apostles were no corner-creepers yet were they not seene and acknowledged for true profâ—ssors by the Scribes and Pharisees that dwelt but hard by in Iewrie Howsoever what is this to Rome if shee hold the socket and want the light if she be seated on a hill yea seven hills like Babylon PA. Will you call Rome Babylon PRO. Your owne Iesuites call Rome Babylon neither can this bee meant of Heathen Rome but of Rome Christian and as it shall bee at the end of the world for so speakes Ribâ—ra and Viegas saith After that Rome shall fall from the faith Now Heathen Rome could not fall from the faith since it never professed the faith therefore the prophecie is to bee fulfilled in Rome Papall and Christian. PA. If thy brother offend thee tell the Church then must we needs know the Church PRO. 1. Wee are bid tell the Church that is her Pastors and Governours when there is such a standing Ministery and publike discipline exercised 2. But in case Tyrants hinder the open meetings of Christians even then also in some good sort though shee bee not so outwardly visible to her foes yet may the Church take notice as the faithfull in the primative Church met together privately and observed orders for reforming of abuses being knowne one to another as friends but unknowne as such to their foes In a word one may tell the Church though for the time shee bee hid from her foes even as one may tell a message to his friend who for the time is hid from his enemie PA. Some of yours say The Church was invisible for divers ages PRO. They say not it was simply invisible but they speake respectively so that looking on those times which fell out somewhat before and after the first sixe hundred yeeres and seeing the title of Vniversall Bishop which Gregoâ—y detested as Antichristian setled on the Pope about the yeere 666 and that this number so fitly agreed to the Man of sinne as also looking downeward to the thousand yeere wherein Satan was loosed and the Turke and Pope grew great looking hereon and comparing the Church as shee was then under Hildebrand forbidding Marriage and deposing the Emperour with her selfe in the primitive ages they said shee was in manner invisible in the Westerne Horizon to wit in respect of that degree and measure of the light of the Gospell that brake forth in the time of the Reformation Besides during the time mentioned it was visible enough in the Greeke and Easterne Church and for the Westerne it had the same subsisting and beeing with the best members in the Romane Church PA. Master Napier saith Our Religion hath raigned universally and without any debatable contradiction 1260 yeeres Gods true Church most certainely abiding so long latent and invisible And Master Peâ—kins saith That for the space of many hundred yeeres an universall Apostasie overspread the whole face of the earth and that your Church was not visible to the world PRO. Master Napier saith not that your Religion raigned so universally neither doth hee speake in generall of the whole body of the Romish Faith and of the universall Antiquitie thereof which is the poynt in question but onely of the first originall of the papall dominion and Antichristian kingdome as hee calleth it as Bishop Morton hath well observed neither yet was this papall Hierarchie or as Master Perkins calls it popish Heresie of being intituled Vniversall Bishop of the Church carried without the opposition of severall Councells and Worthies in Gods Church as God willing hereafter shall appeare For the place cited out of Master Perkins it is as we in our common phrase of speech use to say That all the world is set on mischiefe because so many delight in wickednesse Neither is this manner of speech unusuall in the Scriptures From the Prophet to the Priest all deale falsely saith Ieâ—emy 6.13 and Saint Paul saith All secke their owne and not that which is Iesus Christs Phil. 2.21 bâ—sides hee saith Iâ— had overspread the face of the earth Now a large fiâ—ld may be over-spread with Tares and weedes and yet some good corne in the field Neither saith Master Perkins that our Church was simply invisible but that it was not visible to the world and withall he tels us where it was It lay hid saith he vnder the chasse of Poperie Now the graine is not utâ—erly invisible whiles it is mingled with chaâ—se in the same heape PA. Was not the Church ever gloriously visible PRO. It was not for as S. Austin saith it was sometimes onely in Abel and he was slaine by his brother in Enoch and hee was translated from the ungodly it was in the sole house of Abraham Noah and Lot Afterwards how was it so notably conspicuous when as both Israel and Iudah fell to Idolatry in the times of Achaz and Manasse
when as those Kings caused the Temple to be shut up the Sacrifice to cease and erected Idols in every Towne Besides at our Saviours comming we find but a short Catalogue of true professors mentioned to wit Ioseph and Mary Zacharie and Elizabeth Simeon and Anna the Shepherds in the fields and some others When Christ suffered death his little flocke as hee called it was scattered his disciple â—led and none almost durst shew themselves save Mary and Iohn and some few women with oâ—hers After our Saviours death the Apostles and their followers were glad to meet in Chambers whiles the Priests Scribes and Pharisees bare all the sway in the Temple â—o that as the Treatise of the true Câ—urchâ—s visibilitie haâ—h it if a weâ—ke body had then enquired for the Church it is likely they had beene directed to them In â—he time of those Ten persecutions there could not be any knowne assembly of Christians but foorthwith â—he Tyranâ—s labouâ—ed to root them out but as Tâ—rtullian saith The blood of the Martyrs was the seed of the Church they were peâ—secuted and yet they increased Afâ—erwards when the Arrian Heresie overspread all so that all the world was against Athanasius and he and some few Confesâ—ors stood for the Nicen Faith insomuch as Hierome said The world sighed and groaned marveiling at it selfe how it was become Arrian what a slender appearance did the true professors then make and yet in such dangerous and revolting times even small assemblies of particular congregations wheresoever dispersed serve to make up the universal Church Militant so that the Reader is not to be discouraged if hee find not the Protestant Assemblies so thronged since it was not so with the primative Church and S. Iohn foretold That the woman that is the Church persecuted by the Dragon that old Serpent the Devill and his instruments should flie into the Wildernesse where the Lord promised to hide her till the tempest of persecution were over-blowne wherein God dealt graciously with his Church for had her enemies alwayes seene and knowne her professors they would like cruell beastes have laboured to devoure the damme with her young the mother with her children Now whereas the Papists brag of their Churches Visibilitie their owne Rhemists are driven to confesse that in the raigne of Antichrist the outward state of the Romane Chuâ—ch and the publike entercourse of the faithfull with the same may cease and practise their Religion in secret And Iesuite Suarez thinkes it probable That the Pope shall professe his faith in secret Where is then your Tabernacle in the Sunne your light in the Candlesticke when as your Church and Pope shall walke with a darke Lanterne and say Masse in a corner PA. Why was not the Church alwayes so conspicuous PRO. Because sometimes her best members as Athanasius Hilarie Ambrose and others were persecuted as Heretikes and ungodly men and that by learned persons and such as were powerfull in the world able to draw great troupes after them of such as for hope favour feare or the like respects were ready to follow them In this and the like case when false Priestes broach errours and deceive many Tyrants persecute Gods Saints and cause others to retire then I say when the faithfull want their ordinarie entercourse one with another the number of the Church malignant maybe great in comparison of those that belong to the true Church PA. If the Church were not alwayes so conspicuous in what sort then was it visible a visible Church you grant PRO. In the generall militant Church there have in all ages been some Pastors and people more or lesse that have outwardly taught the truth of Religion in substance though not free from errour in all poynts and these have beene visible by their ordinary standing in some part of Gods Church Besides for the more part there have bin also some that withstood and condemned the grosse errours and superstition of their times and these good men whiles they were suffered taught the truth openly but being persecuted by such as went under the Churches name even then also they taught and administred the Sacraments in private to such faithfull ones as would joyne with them and even in those harder times they manifested their Religion by their Writings Letters Confessions at their Iudgement Martyrdome or otherwise as they could Now as learned Doctor White in his Defence of his Brothers booke hath observed whensoever there bee any Pastors in the world which â—ither in an open view or in the presence of any part thereof doe exercise though in private the actions of true Religion by sound teaching the truth and right administration of the Sacraments this is sufficient to make the Church visible by such a manner of visibilitie as may serve for the gathering and preserving of Gods elect Now such visible Pastors and people the Protestant Church was never utterly destitute of PA. You seeme to make the Church both visible and invisible PRO. May not one bee within and seene with his friends and yet hidden to his enemies visible to the seeing and invisible to the blind Indeed Tyrants Infidells and Heretikes they knew the true beleevers as men of another profession but blinded with malice and unbeliefe they acknowledged them not for true professors as M. Bradford told D. Day Bishop of Chichester the fault why the Church is not seene of you is not because the Church is not visible but because your eyes are not cleare enough to see it and indeed such as put not on the spectacles of the Word to finde out the Church but seeke for her in outward pompe are much mistaken Aelian in his History tels us of one Nicostratus who being a well-skilled Artisan and finding a curious piece of worke drawne by Xeuxis that famous Painter one who stood by wondered at him and asked him what pleasure hee could take to stand as hee did still gazing on the picture to whom hee answered Hadst thou mine eyes my friend thou wouldest not wonder nor aske me that question but rather be ravished as I am at the inimitable art of this rare and admired piece In like manner if our Adversaries had their eyes annoynted with the eye-salve of the holy Spirit they might easily discover the Protestant Church and her visible congregations The Aramites 2 Kings 6. chap. could not discerne the citie of Samaria whither the Prophet led them untill their eyes were opened no more can one discerne or difference the true Church from the malignant and conventicles of the wicked untill his mind bee enlightned And thus Saint Austin told the Donatists They could not see the Church on the hill because their eyes were blinded to wit either with ignorance or malice Saint Austin compares the Church to the Moone which waxeth and waneth is eclipsed and sometime as in the change cannot be seene yet none doubts but still there is a
they do meane the Pope for the time being Now to this height the Pope came under pretence of the Churches government the Churches discipline racking the spirituall censure to a civill punishment by the Church solemnities in crowning Emperors by his Excommunications Absolutions and Dispensations he rose to his greatnesse of state by the doctrine of workes meritorious Iubilees Pardons and Indulgences hee maintained his State And now I come to shew out of good Authors that in nine severall weighty poynts of Religion the best guides of Gods Church for the space of 1500 yeares have taught as the Church of England doth THE FIRST CENTVRIE From the first yeare of Grace unto the yeare One Hundred Christ Iesus and his Apostles the Protestants Founders PAPIST WHom doe you name in this first Age that taught the Protestant Faith PROTESTANT I name our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus and his Apostles Saint Paul and his Schollers Titus and Timothie together with the Churches which they planted as that of the Romanes Corinthians and the rest These I name for our first Founders and top of our kin as also Ioseph of Arimathea that buried Christs body a speciall Benefactor to the Religion planted in this land These taught for substance and in the positive grounds of religion as we doe in our Articles Liturgies Homilies and Apologies by publike authoritie established in our Church of England Besides these there were but few Writers in this age whose undoubted Works have come to our hands yet for instance sake I name that blessed Martyr of Christ Ignatius Bishop of Antioch who for the name of Iesus was sentenced to bee dâ—voured of wild beasts which hee patiently indured saying I am the Wheat or graine to bee ground with the teeth of beasts that I may be pure Bread for my Masters tooth let fire rackes pulleys yea and all the torments of Hell come on mee so I may winne Christ. Here also according to the Roman Register I might place Dionysius Areopagita whom they usually place in this first Age as if hee were that Denys mentioned in the Actes whereas indeed hee is a post natus and in all likelihood lived about the fourth Age and not in this first for Denys saith That the Christians had solemne Temples like the Iewes and the Chancell severed with such and such sanctification from the rest of the Church whereas the Christians in this fiâ—st age made their assemblies to prayer both in such private places and with such simplicitie as the Apostles did and as the times of persecution suffered them Againe Denys tells us that when hee wrote Monkes were risen and they of credit in the Churches and many Ceremonies to hallow them whereas in the Apostles time when the true Dionysius lived Monkes were not heard of yea Chrysostome saith That when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Hebrewes there was not then so much as any footstep of a Monke PA. I challenge Saint Denys for ours hee was as our Rhemists say all for the Catholikes PRO. Take him as he is and as he comes to our hands hee is not wholly yours but in some things cleane contrary to you as namely in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper wherein you vary from us most Besides hee hath not your sole receiving of the Priest nor ministring under one kind to them who receive nor Exhortations Lessons Prayers in a tongue which the people understand not he hath not your Invocation of Saints noâ— adoration of creatures nor sacrificing of Christ to God nor praying for the soules in purgatory so that in things of substance and not of ceremony onely he is ours and not yours as I hope will appeare by his Writings for we will for the time suppose him to be a Father of this first age although the bookes which beare Saint Denys his name seeme to bee written in the fourth or fifth age after Christ. PAP Can you proove that Christ and his Apostles taught as you doe PRO. Wee have cleare testimonies of Scripture which appoint Gods people to receive the blessed Cup in the Sacrament and to be present at such a divine service as themselves understand wee have expresse command forbidding Image-worship against Invocation of Saints it is said that Abraham knoweth us not and Isaac is ignorant of us and the blessed Angel refused all religious honour and Adoration Likewise against Merit of workes and workes of Super-erogation it is said that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall bee revealed in us and that wee are unproâ—itable servants when we have done all that was commanded us we have but done that which was our dutie to doe and the like PA. You alleadge Scripture and so doe wee yea in some things the Scripture is plaine for us as where it is said This is my Bodie PRO. What though it make for you in shew so doth it for the Anabaptists where it is said that the Christians had all things common you will not hence inferre that because in such an extremitie their charitie for the reliefe of others made things common concerning the use that therefore we should have no property in the goods that God hath given us It is not the shew and semblance of words but the sense thereof that imports the truth Saint Paul sayes of his Corinths Ye are the body of Christ yet not meaning any Transubstantiation of substance but hâ—reof anon in his due place PA. The Scriptures make not for you but as you have translated them PRO. For any point we hold we referre our selves to the Originalls yea wee say further let the indifferent Christian Reader who hath but tollerable understanding of the Latine Tongue compare our English translations with those which your owne men Pagnine Arias Montanus and others have published and they will finde but little countenance for Poperie and namely for Communion in one kind and Service in a strange Tongue which as is already proved hath bene decreed directly contrary to Gods expresse word but let us come to the particulars Of the Scriptures sufficiency and Canon The Church of England holds that Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation so that theâ—e is no doctrine necessary for our everlasting salvation but that is or may bee drawne out of that Fountaine of truth as being either expressely therein contained or such as by sound inference may bee deduced from thence and this is witnessed by Saint Paul saying that they are able to make us wise unto salvation that the man of God may bee perfited and throughly furnished unto all good workes which they should not bee able to doe if they contained not a perfect doctrine of all such poynts of faith as we are bound to bâ—leeve and duties to bee practised And if it be said that S. Paul speakes of the man of God such an one as
Fulgentius speakes of the blessed Virgins helping all sucâ— women as â—lie unto her Answer The same Auâ—hor goes on thâ—ugh Bellarmine conceale it tellâ— us that the Virgin Mary whom he intitles the new Eve as Christ is called the new Adam restored all womankind as Christ did all mankind Shall we thâ—nk that the true Fulgentius a man of worth in his time would thus parâ— stakes beâ—wixt Christ Iesus and the Virgin Mary in that great work of our Redemption Surely this is some counâ—erfeit going under the name of Fulgentius And so I finde that the whole Homily is in the tenth Tome of Saint Austin's workes uâ—der the Title of the fifteeâ—th Sermon de Tempore And the Divines of Lovan found it ascribed unto Severianus in some Copies anâ— printâ—d amongst Fulgentius his woâ—kes so that it appeares to be but filius populi some bâ—â—e issue whose Father being meane and uâ—knowne yet the brat is layd at some honest mans doore Object Saint Leo would have us to make sute for the votes prayers and suffrages of the Saints speciâ—lly Saint Peters Answer Saint Leo goes no farther than this By his merits and prayers wee hope to finde assistance Besides he speakes of Intercession without any Invocation Object The Fathers in the Chalcedon Councell said Let the Martyr Flavianus pray for us Aâ—swer Flavianus a Catholike Bishop was murdered for an Hereticke by the Ephesin Latrocinie and Dioscarus his Faction the worthy Councell of Chalcedon loosed him afâ—er his death and honoured him as a Saint and Martyr insomuch that upon the mention of his name the Fathers there assembled made this joynt acclamation Flavianus lives after his death Let the Martyr pray for us Now this was votum non invocatio a wish and no direct invocation Or if they will reade it Martyr pro nobis orat the Martyr prayes for us to wit in geneall wee doe not denye it nor doth it helpe their cause By this we see what to thinke of the thirty Fathers Greek and Latine mustered up by Bellarmine for proofe of Saintly invocation they may as learned Winchester observes bee put into three rankes some of them being indeed true Fathers but not truely alleadged others truely alleadged but they bee not homines legales good men and true Fathers but counterfeits bearing their names others be true Fathers and truly alleadged but they speake not ad rem to the poynt in question To come to particulars there be seaven of the thirty who lived after the first five hundred yeares so that they are later and Post-nati unto Primitive antiquitie being out of the verge of the limited time and out of the compasse of the Churches puritie Damascen living about the yeare seven hundred and thirty and Theophylact surviving William the Conquerour some of them also be partiall as speaking to the poynt when it got some footing in the Church There be others to the number of eight who have put on the visour of antiquitie and would seeme ancient but are justly suspected to bee ranke counteâ—feits and men of yesterday in comparison Two or three of the Greeke Fathers are wrong cited by a false writ and a corrupt translation There be seven other of the witnâ—sses who speake not positively as Divines but like Poets Panegyrists Oratours with Figures Apostrâ—phe's and Prosopopeiae's in a Poeticall veine and Rhetoricall streine of this ranke is Nazianzen's Respice de caelo Hierome's Vale â— Paula Maximus his Itaque ô splendida virgo Nyssen his compâ—llation to Theodore the Martyr Coge chorum Martyrum Saint Victor his adestote Angeli and Paulinus and Prudentâ—us with thâ—ir Poetry The oâ—her sixe thaâ— remainâ— upon record speake not to the poynt they tâ—ll us indeed of the Saints inteâ—ceding for us to wit in genâ—rall but this inferreâ—h not our invocation of them They tell us also of some private mens opinion and the practâ—ce of soâ—â—e few but this doth not waâ—rant it to have beene the doctrine and practice of the Church Of Iusâ—ification by Faith Alâ—hough Faith onely justifie yet is not Faith alone or solitarie in the person justified even as the eye though it onely see yet it is nâ—t alone in the body but joyned with the rest of the members in like sort Faith aâ—d Charity where they are not both joyntly together there as Leo sayth they are both wanting Saint Augustine saith That Faith onely purifieth the â—eart Saint Chysostome often useth the selfe same forme of speâ—ch to wit tâ—at Faith onely justifieth Saint Augustine saith He is sinne and wee are justice not our owne but Gods not in our selves but in him as he is sinne not his owne but ours not in himsâ—lfe but in us so are wee made the juâ—tice of God in him as he is sinne in us to wit by Imputation And againe In the way oâ— Faith they are reckoned for no sinners and therfore are â—eputed Iust who have not their sinnes imputed to them This fâ—ee remissiâ—n of sinnes he elswhere notably describeth saying If God hath covered our sinnes he will not obsâ—rve them he will not thiâ—ke upon them to punish them he will â—ot take knowledge but ratâ—er pardon tâ—em It iâ— cleâ—re also out of Saint Austine that there is such impeâ—fect on in our woâ—ks as thaâ— they cannot justifie All our Righteousnesse saith he standeth raâ—her in the remission of our sinnes than in any perfection of justice and againe Woe be to the commendablest life we leade saith he if thou Lord setting thy mercie aside shoulâ—st â—xamine it but this is our comfort God dealeth graciously with us accepting our willing desires in sted of the worke done as Saint Paul saith 2 Cor. 8.12 and accordingly Saint Austine saith All the commandements of God are then esteemed to be done when as that is forgiven whatsoever is not done Of Merit Concerning Merits or the dignity of good workes equall to the Reward Saint Paul is against it saying That the suffâ—rings Martyrdomes of this preseâ—t time are not worthy to be compared to the glory that shall bâ—e revealed in us and both Hierome and Chrysostome alleadge this place against Merit Leo saith The measure of coelestiall gifts depends not upon thâ— quality of workes Saint Auâ—tine saiâ—h Thou shalt not receive eternall life for thy merit but onely for grace And they speake reason for hee that would merit or deserve any thing at another mans hand must of himselfe by his owne power doe something that the other had no former claime unto now our good workes inasmuch as they are good are Godâ— frâ—e gifts Wee are not sufficient to thinke any thing that is good 2 Cor. 3.5 It is God that worketh in us both the will and the deed Philip. 2.1 And Man stands bound to God either in strict termes of law or by way of gratitude as his creature servant and
sonne to doe him the uttermost of his service My good deeds saith Austin are thy ordinances and thy gifts my evill onesâ— are my sinnes and thy judgements Theodoret saith The Crownes doe excell the Fights the rewards are not to be comparâ—d with the labours for the labour is small and the gaine great that is hoped for and therefore tâ—e Apostle called those things that are looked for not wages but glory Rom. 8.18 not wages but grace Rom. 6.23 The same Theodoret saith That things eternall doe not answer temporâ—ll labours in equall poyze Saint Hierome saith If wee consider our owne merits we must despaire And againe When the day of judgement or death shall come all hands shall faile because no worke shall bee found worthy of the justice of God Saint Chrysostome speakes very pathetically Etsi millies moriamur Although saith hee wee die a thousand deaths although wee did performe all vertuous actions yet should wee come short by farre of rendring any thing worthy of those honours which are conferred upon us by God Indeed the Lord rewards good workes but this is out of his bounty free favour and grace and not as of desert Rom. 4.4 In giving the Crowne of Immortality as our reward God crowneth not our merits but his owne gifts and when God crowneth our merits that is good deeds hee crowneth nothing else but his own gifts saith Saint Augustine So that God indeed is become our debtour not by our deservingâ— but by his owne gracious promise God is faithfull who hath made himselfe our debtour saith Austin not by receiving any thing from us but by promising so great things to us whatsoever he promised hee promised to them that were unworthy In a word though hee give heaven propter promissum for his promise sake and because hee will bee as good as his word yet it is not propter commissum for any performance of ours This was the doctrine of old but the Rhemists have taken out a new lesson saying That good works are meritorious and the very cause of salvation so farre that God should be unjust if hee rendred not heaven for the same Now by this that hath beene alleadged the Reader may perceive that besides diverse other worthies of these times S. Augustine the honor of this Age agreeth with us in diverse weighty poynts of religion as also in the matter of Gods free grace and justification insomuch as Sixtus Senensis saith Whil'st Saint Austin doth contend earnestly against the Pelagians for the defence of divine grace he doth seeme to fall into another pit and sometimes attributeth too little to Free-will And Stapleton saith tâ—at Austin haply in his disputation against the Pelagians went beyond all goâ—d measure PA. Saint Austin prayed for the dead to wit for his mother Monica desiring God not to enter into judgement with her PRO. What though hee did so the Examples of Christians which sometimes slip into superstition are no rule for to ordâ—r our life or devotion thereby Besides if hee prayed for eternall rest and remission of sinnes to his deceased mother this was not for that hee doubted shee injoyed them not or that he feared shee indured any Purgatory paines but hee sued for the continuation accomplishment and manifestation thereof at the generall resurrection Yea even then when he prayed so hee saith hee believes that the Lord had granted his request to wit that his mother was out of paine and that God had forgiven her her sinnes Which argueth that it was rather a wish than a Prayer proceeding more out of affection to her than any necessity to helpe her by his Prayers who was then as he perswaded himselfe in a blessed estate so that howsoever Saint Austin at first made a kind of prayer for his mother yet a little after as it were repressing himselfe he saith he believeth that shee is in a blessed state The Letters of Charles the great unto our Off a King of Mercia are yet extant wherein he wisheth That intercessions should be made for Pope Adrian then lately deceased not having any doubt at all saith he but that his blessed soule is at rest but that wee may shew our faithfulnesse and love to our most deare friend In a word Saint Austin's prayer was not as Popish prayers now a dayes are made with reference to Purgatory and therefore it makes nothing against us PAP Did not Saint Austine hold Purgatory PRO. That some such thing should be after this life it is not saith he incredâ—ble and whether it be so it may be iâ—quired and either be found or remaine hidden In another place he leaveth it uncertaine Whether onely in this life men suffer or whether there follow some such temporall judgements after this life so that Saint Austine saith it is not incredible and it may be disputed whether it bee so and perhaps it is so words of doubting and not of asleveration but in other places he gives such reasons as overthrow it The Catholike Faith saith he resting upon divine authority believes the first place the kingdome of heaven and the second hell a third wee are wholly ignorant of yea wee shall finde in the Scriptures that it is not Neither speakes he onely of places eternall that are to continue for ever besides he there purposely disputes against Limbus Pucrorum and rejects all temporary places not acknowledging any other third place and elsewhere he saith There is no middle place hee must needes bee with the devill that is not with Christ and againe Where every man 's owne last day finds him therein the world's last day wâ—ll hold him Thus farre Saint Austine according to the Scriptures which acknowledges but two sorts of people Children of the kingdome and children of the wicked faithfull and unfaithfull Mâ—th 13.38 And accordingly two places after this life Heaven and Hell Luke 16.23 Mark 16.16 Neither doth the Scripâ—ure any where mention any temporary fire after this life the fire it speakes of is everlasting and unquenchable and so doth Austine take it and as for that fiâ—e which Saint Paul mentions It is not a Purgatory but a Probatorie fire PA. Master Brerely hath set forth Saint Austines Religion agreeble to ours PRO. The Learned on our side have confuted him and have prooved out of Saint Austines undoubted writings that he agreed with the Church of England in the maine poynts of Faith and Doctrine And so I come from Fathers to Councels and first to the sixth African Councel held at Carthage and another at Milevis both which denied Appeales to Rome Now the case was this Apiarius a Priest of Africa was for his scandalous life excommunicated by Vrban his Diocâ—san and by an African Synod Apiarius thus censured fled to Pope Zozimus who restored him to his place absolved him this he did pretending that some Canon of the Nicen Councell had established Appeales
a monster And it may bee some of the well-gifted moderne Doctors may see as farre as some of the ancient Friar Stella though it bee farre from him to condemne the common exposition given by the ancient holy Doctors Yet I know full well saith he that Pygmeis being put upon Gyants shoulders doe see farther than the Gyants themselves Neither doe wee speake this as if wee refused the tryall of Fathers but partly to bring the matter to a shorter issue and partly to give the word of God the foundation on which wee build our faith it 's due for we doe usuallâ— produce the Fathers testimonies thereby to shew our consent with the ancient Church PA. Will you charge the Fathers with errour PRO. The Fathers being but men have erred through oversight and affection Saint Cyprian and a whole Councell with him â—rred in the point of Rebaptization whiles through too much hatred of Heretickes they condemned the Baptisme of Heretickes as unlawfull and would have them baptized anew Origen through too much compassion of the wicked thought that the Devills themselves should bee saved at length Tertullian through spite of the Romane Cleargie revolted to the Montanists and was taken up with their idle Prophecies and revelations Divers of the Fathers were tainted with the errour of the Chiliasts or Millenaries mistaken herein in that they thought that Christians afâ—er the Resurrection should raigne a thousand yeares with Christ upon the earth and there should marry wives beget children eate drinke and live in corporall delights which errour though flatly repugnant to the Scriptures which say that in the Resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriagâ— but are as the Angels in heaven they fell into partâ—y by confâ—unding the first and second Resurrection Revel 20.5 and parâ—ly by taking that carnally which was mystically meant in the Revelations Revel 21.10 and 22.2 Besides the Fathers in the exposition of Scripture doe ofâ—entimes differ each from other as Sixtus Senensis hath observed in his Bibliothecâ lib. 5. PA. Though particular Fathers doe erre in some things yet the body of them is â—ound now we are bound to interpret the Scripture according to the joynt consent of the Fathers PRO. You have forfeited your bond for in the division of the ten coÌ„â—andements to conceale your Idolatry touching Image worship forbidden in the second you goe against the streame of antiquitie the learned Iewes the Fathers Greeke and Latine for though Saint Austin in respect of the mystery of the blessed Trinitie placed three commandements in the first table and seaven in the later yet there be a dozen of the Ancients that divide them as we doe namely the Hebrewes as Philo and Iosespus shew and amongst the Grecians Gregorie Nazianzene Origen Athanasius Chrysostome or whosoever was the Author of the worke unperfit upon Mathew amongst the Latines S. Ambrose S Hierome and one more ancient then they both to wit the Author of the questions of the old and new Testament going under Saint Austins name And for Historianâ— Sulpitius Severus in his sacred Historie and Zonaras in his Annals they be of the same mind where is now your submission to the joynt consent of the Fathers In like sort you hold that the blessed Virgin was free from all spot of Originall sinneâ— and yet the Scripture sayth That in Adam all have sinned Rom. 5.12 and your owne man Melchior Canus produceth seventeene Fathers to the contrary Sancti omnes all the holy Fathers that have mentioned this matter uno ore with one consent affirme the blessed Virgin to have beene conceived in Originall sinne And yet these be the men that crake of the unanimous consent of Fathers that the Fathers are as sure to them as Gregory the thirteenth is a loving Father to his children of the Church The truth is whatsoever they say of the Fathers to dazel the peoples eyes withall they use them as Merchants doe their Counters sometimes standing for pence sometime for pounds even as they be next and readiest at hand to make up their accounts neither are they farther entertained then they favour the keyes and authority of the Church saith Duraeus now by the Church he meanes the Roman Church And Gretsâ—r saith that if the Fathers teach otherwise than the Church namely the Roman Church then they bee not Fathers but step-fathers not Doctours but Seducers Cornelius Mus the Bishop of Bitonto sayth That in points of Faith he giveth more creâ—it to the Pope than to a thousand Austines Hieromes Gregories and yet these be the men that cry up the Fatheâ—s Now if the Fathers make so much for them or they of the Fathers how is it that they corrupt the writings of the true Fathers and devise such sleights to elude their testimonies how is it that they are driven to fly to the bastard treatises of false Fathers going under the name of Abdias Linus Clemens S. Denys and the like Knights of the Poste brought in to depose on their behalfe though others of their owne side have cashiered them as counterfeits for instance sake amongst the Popes decretall Epistles the first of Clemens written as is pretended to Iames the brother of the Lord is vouched by Bellarmine for proofe of the Popes Supremacie as also by the Rhemists to prove that Peter promised Saint Clement that after his departure he would not cease to pray for him and his flocke now this Clement is pretended to be the same that lived in the Apâ—stles times and is mentioned by Saint Paul but it is discovered for a counâ—erfeit for in this Epistle it is said that Peter prayed Clemens to write after his death this Epistle to Iames the brother of the Lord to comfort him and Clemens did so whereas Iames was dead long before Peter about an eight yeares at least now what a sencelesse thing is this to write letters to a dead man specially knowing him to be dead and hereupon Cardinal Cusanus hath cast off this Epistle as counterfeit In deed Turrian the Iesuit striveth to defend this Epistle but yet hee cannot shew by what carryer Clement did send the letters to Saint Iames. And yet must these bee vouched under the reverent names of Saints Abdias Saint Linus Saint Clement Saint Denys beeing not much unlike as one in Budaeus compares some grave pontifician Fathers to antiques in Churches which bow and crouch under vaults and pillars and seeme to beare up the Church as sometime the Pope thought hee saw the Church of Saint Iohn Latterane totter and ready to fall had not Saint Dominick upheld it with his shoulder whereas these doe not beare up the Church but are borne out by the Church and are indeed but puppets PA. Master Wadesworth saith Hee found the Catholickes had farre greater and better armies of evident witnesses than
the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Iustus Orgelitanus compares the Scriptures to Davids Tower wherein hang a thousand shields and all the targets of the strong men it being furnished with all sorts of armour to encounter Satan and his Instruments withall Saint Bede records of the successors of Colum-kille the great Saint of Ireland That they observed only those workes of pietie and chastitie which they could learne in the propheticall evangelicall and apostolicall writings and these they esteemed as their chiefe riches according to that of Columbanus Sint tibi divitiae divinae dogmata legis Iunilius an African Bishop treating of the Canonicaâ—l bookes and having said that some account Tobie with others Canonicall he puts the question and then resolves it Why are not these bookes inserted amongst the Canonicall Scriptures and he names amongst other Tobie Esdra Iudith and the second of the Maccabees Because saith he The Iewes did make a difference of them as Saint Hierome and others witnesse Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments Hinemar in the life of Rhemigius Archbishop of Rhemes who converted King Clovis of France to the Christian faith reports that the Archbishop gave a Chalice for the peoples use with this Motto Hauriat hinc populus vitam de sanguine sacro Injecto aeternus quem fudit vulnere Christus Rhemigius domino reddit sua vota sacerdos Rhemigius Priest that gave this cup Prayeth that in it the people sup And still draw life from flowing blood Out of Christs side as of a flood Hee saith not Hauriat hinc Clerus but populus not Let the Priest but let the people drinke of this ministeriall Cup as Cassander cals it The Divines of this Age as others of former times acknowledged onely two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords Supper Of the Eucharist Fulgentius speaking of the Eucharist saith In this sacrifice there is a thankesgiving and remembrance of the flesh which hee offered and the blood which Christ shed for us and this sacrifice of bread and wine was offered throughout the whole Catholike Church Here Fulgentius mentions a Sacrifice not proper and propitiatorie for the quick and dead but Eucharisticall and Commemorative of prayse and thankesgiving a lively memoriall and representation of the Sacrifice offered on the Crosse. The words alleadged are found amongst S. Austines workes but Bellarmine saith Many father them on Fulgentius and that Bertram citeth these words under his name and so indeed I find it howsoever were it Austin or Fulgentius the Master or the Scholler so they taught and so wee learned both from them and others namely Primasius Ambrose and Chrysostome who by way of correction say Wee offer the same sacrifice or rather the remembrance thereof Besides the same Fulgentius saith They receive the onely Sonne of God Of Images and Prayer to Saints Fulgentius saith That as in the first Precept the worship of one God is manifestly commanded so the faithfull are utterly forbidden to yeeld the service of Adoration to any creature Dracontius in his booke of the Creation saith It is Gods pleasure Esse nihil prorsus se praeter ubiquè rogandum That nothing beside himselfe should every where be prayed unto Of Faith and Merit Primasius saith that We are freely justified by faith only and not by workes Fulgentius saith From this our originall corruption not any power of nature or letter of the Law but faith onely in Iesus Christ doth free us Now this saving faith though it never goe alone yet may there be some gift of God which it alone is able to reach unto as Columbanus also implyeth in that verse Sola fides fidei donâ— ditabitur almo Concerning Merit Fulgentius saith Our glorificacation is not unjustly called grace not onely because God doth bestow his owne gifts upon his owne gifts but also because the grace of Gods reward doth so much there abound as that it exceedeth incomparably and unspeakably all the merit of the will and worke of man though good and given from God and That this is wholesome doctrine to challenge nothing to our selves in any good we doe And Iustus Orgelitanus saith Wee must thanke the Stocke Christ Iesus if any good fruit grow on our branches Cassiodore saith That Gods vocation goes before our merit not â—inding us worthy but accepting us for such The Councell of Orange hath notably decreed against the Semi-pelagians There are many good things saith the Councell done in man which man doth not but man doth no good things which God doth not make man to doe This also doe wee wholsomely professe and believe that in every good worke wee doe not begin and are holpen afterwards by the mercy of God but hee first of all no good merits of ours going before inspireth into us both faith and the love of him which place Binnius hath corrupted reading for nullis multis many good workes going before surely this was none of his good workes to corrupt the Councell Now also was held the fifâ—h Generall Councell at Constantinople Anno 553. Called by the Emperour Iustinian and not by the Pope This Councell confirmed the decrees of the former and withall according to the former Canons decreed That the See of Constantinople should have equal dignity with the See of old Rome Vnto these forraine testimonies we may joyne some of our owne namely the Britaines about the yeare five hundred ninetie sixe what time as Gregory the Great sent Austin the Monke into England PAP It was our Gregory and his Austin that first converted your Iland PRO. It was converted long before Austins comming even in the first Age of the Church as is already showne Besides at his comming there were in Britaine seven Bishops with other learned men professing and teaching the Christian faith and above two thousand Monks in the Monastery of Bangor All living with the labour of their hands Yea Geffrey of Monmouth speaking of Cornwaile and the Westerne parts saith In a part of the Britaines Christianity yet flourished the which being received in the dayes of Eleutherius in the yeare 179. Never fayled amongst them so that Austin was not our first Converter PA. You say the Britaine 's held the Christian faith how then differed they from our Austin PRO. They differed both in Ceremonies and Substantiall doctrine namely in not acknowledging the Popes Supremacie which is now a grand Article of the Romane Faith for whereas Austine came with a kind of Legantine power from the Pope and for the execution of this Commission not unknowne to the Ilanders used both prayers and threats to move them to conformity with the Romane Church at least for their manner of baptizing and keeping of Easter but they told him plainely that They would not yeeld to any of his motions nor acknowledge him for their Arch bishop yea
Dinooch the Abbot of Bangor a learned man made it appearâ— by divers arguments when Austine required the Bishops to be subject unto him that they ought him no subjection yea they farther added That they had an Arch-bishop of their owne him they ought and would obey but they would not be subject to any forraigne Bishop For such an one belike they held the Pope to be Neither can it bee truly alleadged that they refused his jurisdiction not his religion for Bede saith That they withstood him in all that ever he sayd now surely hee sayd somewhat else besides his Arch-bishopricke and his Pall or else he had beene a very ambitious man Besides in the dayes of Laurentius Austines successour Bishop Daganus denied all Communion And refused to eate bread in the same Inne wherein the Romish Prelates lodged belike then they differed in matters of weight PA. Wherein stood the difference what doe you hence inferre whether were you not beholden to our Austine PRO. The Romans kept their Easter in memorie of Christs Resurrection upon the first Sunday after the full Moone of March the Britanes kept theirs in memory of Christs Passion upon the fourteenth day of the Moone of March on what day of the weeke soever it fell this they did after the example of the Easterne Churches in Asia grounded on a tradition received from Saint Iohn whereby it seemeth the British Church rather followed the custome of the East Church in Asia planted by Saint Iohn and his disciples than the Romane which yet had they been of the Romish jurisdiction they would in all likelyhood have followed now since they followed the Easterne custome it is probable that our first conversion to Christianitie came from the Converted Iewes or Grecians and not from the Romanes and that Britaine was not under their jurisdiction But whencesoever our Conversion were wee blesse God for it Now concerning Austine and the Britaines we acknowledge to Gods glory that howsoever the superfluitie of Ceremonies which Austine brought in might well have been spared yet Austine and his Assistants Iustus Iohn and Melitus converted many to the Faith Neither can we excuse the Britaines for refusing to joyne with Austine in the conversion of the Pagan Saxons yet withall we must needs say they had just reason to refuse to put their necks under his yoke and surely if Austine had not had a proud spirit he would onely have requested their helpe for the worke of the Lord and not have sought dominion over them which makes it very probable that his obtruding the Popes jurisdiction over the Britaines occasioned that lamentable slaughter of the Britaines For when as Austine solicited the Britaines to obey the See of Rome and they denied it then did Ethelbert a Saxon Prince lately converted by Austine stirre up Edelfred the Wild the Pagan King of Northumberland against the Britaines whereupon the Infidel Saxon Souldiers made a most lamentable slaughter of the Britaines assembled at Westchester and that not onely on the Souldiers prepared to fight but on the Monks of Bangor assembled for prayer of whom they slew twelue hundred together with Dinooch their Abbot all which as Ieffery Monmouth saith being that day honoured with Martyrdome obtained a seat in the Kingdome of Heaven And this was the wofull issue of their stickling for jurisdiction over other Churches PA. Baronius calleth the Britaines Schismaticks for not yeelding to the Pope PRO. The Britaine Church had anciently a Patriarke or Primate of her owne like other Provinces to him the other Bishops of his Church were subject and not to the Romane PA. The Nicâ—n Councel condemned the Quartadecimans and in them your Britaines for Hereticks saith Parsons PRO. To his testimonie we oppose the Iudgement of a Frier minorite who expressely calleth them Catholikes Besides had that famous Councell of Sardice held our British Bishops for Hereticks they had never admitted them to give sentence in that Councel as they did for by name Restitutus Bishop of London subscribed thereunto and was likewise pâ—esent at the Synod of Arles in France as Parsons reporteth out of Athanasius Againe those who kept Easter on the fourteenth day precisely were of two sorts Some as Polycrates and other Bishops in Asia kept it so meerely in imitation of Saint Iohn the Evangelist as an ancient but yet an indifferent and mutable rite or tradition and these were condemned for Hereticks and such were our Britaines Others kept the fourteenth day even eo nomine and by vertue of the Mosaicall law holding a necessity of observing that peremptory day as appointed by Mosesâ— now this was the meanes to bring Iudaisme which quite abolisheth Christ and evacuateth the whole Gospel like those who amongst the Galathians urged Circumcision to whom Saint Paul professeth that Christ should profit them nothing And this was it was condemned in the Quarta-decimans but of this the Britaine 's were cleere They should indeed have conformed themselves to the Councels decree yet because that decree was not a decree of Faith no farther then it condemned the Necessitie of observing the fourteenth day and therein condemned the Quartaâ—decimans but a decree of Order discipline and uniformity in the Church when it was once knowne and evident that any particular Church condemned the necessitie of that fourteenth day the Church by a connivencie permitted and did not censure the bare observing of that day The same Councel decreed that on every Lords day from Easter to Whitsâ—ntide none should pray kneeling but standing wherein the Church notwithstanding the decree useth the like connivence not strictly binding every particular Church to doe so so long as there is unitie and agreement in the doctrines of Faith the Church useth not to bee rigorous with particular Churches which are her children for the varietie and difference in outward rites though commanded by her selfe as my learned kinsman Doctor Crakanthorpe hath well observed PA. This odds about keeping Easter was but of small weight PRO. It was so if we consider our Christian libertie in the observation of times yâ—t was it held a matter of that consequence that Pope Victor Excommunicated all the Churches of Asia which differed from him in the observation thereof PA. What conclude you from your Britaines Faith PRO. Vpon the Premises it followeth that seeing the doctrine of the Popes Supremacie over all Churches was no part of the Britaines Faith when Austine came therefore neither was it any part of their Faith in Eleutherius dayes no nor in the Apostles time neither since as Mathew of Westminster saith The Britaines Faith never failed Againe seeing the Britaines Faith as Parsons truly affirmeth was then to wit at Austines comming the same which the Romanes and all Catholike Churches embraced it further followeth that the Popes Supremacie was no materiall part of the Romane Faith or of any Catholikes either in Pope
Eleutherius time or in the Apostles dayes for had it beene so the Britaines who changed not their Faith but kept still the substantiall grounds thereof would likewise have held the Popes Supremacie yea doubtlesse those Catholike Bishops of Britaine had they but knowne and believed as now it is given out the Pope to be Iure divinâ— by divine right and Gods appointment the Monarch of the whole Church they would have yeelded obedience to Austine and in him to the Pope but they opposed it as being urged by those of the Romish faction so that it was not then as now it is made one of the chiefe heads of the Romish Faith for now a dayes men are made to believe that out of the Communion of the Romane Church nothing but hell can be looked for and subjection to the Bishop of Rome as to the visible Head of the Vniversall Church Is required as a matter necessary to salvation But this was no part nor Article of the ancient Britaines Creed and therefore they withstood it and if it were no Article of Faith them surely it is none now a dayes To close up this point hereby is overthrowne the maine Article of the Romane Creed For if as the Papists say and sweare there be no salvation out of the Romane Communion then is the case like to goe hard with the one thousand two hundred British Monks of Bangor stiled Saints and Martyrs that died out of the Roman Communion and yet within the Communion of Saints But this Grand Imposture of the now Romane Church is notably discovered by the learned and zealous Bishop of Coventrie and Lichfield Doctor Morton now Lord Bishop of Durham My conclusion shall be this out of the holy Catholike Church of the Creede there is no salvation but out of the fellowship of the Romane Church there hath beene and is salvation as appeares in the case of these our British Martyrs therefore the present Romane Church is not as it is pretended the Catholike Church of the old Creede but a particular of the new Trent Creede THE SEVENTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 600. to 700. PAPIST PRoceede to name your men PROTESTANT I name Gregory the great whom Bellarmine usually placeth in this seventh Age for that hee lived unto the yeare 605 what time as Trithemius saith he dyed Now also lived his Scholler Isidore Bishop of Sivil in Spaine usually termed Isidore the younger Now also by Bellarmine's account though others make him much ancienter lived Hesychius Bishop of Hierusalem with other Worthies as namely the Britaines of Wales as also Saint Aidan and Finan now also was held the sixth Generall Councell PA. I challenge Saint Gregory hee is ours PRO. Gregorie indeed lived in a troublesome time whiles the Goths and Vandals overranne Italie and Rome was besieged by the Lombards There was then also great decay in knowledge and scarcity of able men to furnish the Church withall and few in Italie as Baronius saith that were skilled both in Greeke and Latine Yea Gregory himselfe proâ—esseth that hee was ignorant of the Greeke tongue yet was he stâ—led the great and yet not so great as godly and modest It is commonly said of him That he was the last of the good Bishops of Rome and the first of the bad ones That he was the first Pope and leader of the Pontifician companies and the last Bishop of Rome Hee was supeâ—stitious in diverse things hee lived in a declining age and as in time so in some truths came short of his predecessours yet he taught not as your Trent Papists doe but joyned with us in diverse weighty poynts of Religion Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon Gregory held the Scriptures sufficiencie saying Whatsoever serveth for edification is contayned in the volume of the Scriptures wherein are all resolutions of doubts fully and plentifully to be found they being like a full Spring that cannot be drawne drye Hee approved the vulgar use of the Scriptures exhorting a Lay-man to study them because saith hee they bee as it were Gods Letter or Epistle to his Creature wherein he reveales his whole minde to him And lest any complaine of the difficulty of the Scriptures he compares them to a River wherein there are as well shallow Foords for Lambes to wade in as depths for the Elephant to swim in And Isidore saith that the Scripture is common to petty Schollers and to Proficients And whereas Heretickes use to alleadge Scripture for themselves Gregory saith they may bee confuted by Scripture it selfe even as Goliath was slaine with his owne sword Gregory held the bookes of Maccabees Apocryphall Wee doe not amisse saith he if wee produce a testimony out of the booke of Maccabees though not Canonicall yet published for the iâ—struction of the Church And Occham accordingly reports Gregories judgement saying The booke of Iudith Tobias the Maccabees Ecclesiasticus and Wisedom are not to bee received for the confirmation of any doctrine of Faith Isidore saith In these Apocryphall although there be some truth to be found yet by reason of the many errours therein they are not of Canonicall authâ—rity Of Communion under both kindes and number of Sacraments Saint Gregory in his Dialogues if they be his tells us of some that were going to Sea some whereof happily were Lay-men carryed with them the consecratâ—d body and bloud of the Lord in the Ship and there received it And againe His body is there recâ—ived his flesh is there divided for the peoples salvation his bloud is not now powred out upon the hands of Infidels but into the mouth of the Faithfull Hee speakes expressely of the Faithfull and of the people And in his Homily touching the Passeover he saith What is meant by the bloud of Christ you have now learned not by hearing of it but by drinking of it which bloud is then put on both posts when it is drawne in both by the mouth of the body and of the heart Herein Gregory resembles the partaking of Christ's bloud in the Eucharist to the bloud of the Paschall Lambe in the twelfth of Exodus striken upon both poâ—ts of the doore thereby noting the mouth and the heart each whereof after their manner receive Christ for with the mouth and corporally wee receive the wine which is the Sacrament of his bloud and with our heart and by faith we receive the thing Sacramentall the bloud it selfe Besides hee speakes expressely of drinking and the termes hee useth hauritur and perfunditur That Christ's bloud is shed and taken as a draught demonstrate that he speaks not of partaking Christ's bloud as it is joyned to his body and inclosed in his veines but as severed from it as my worthy and learned friend Doctor Featly hath observed Isidore saiâ—h The fourth prayer is brought in for the kisse of Peace that all bâ—ing reconciled by charity may
Gregorie held a Purgatorie for some smaller faults PRO. He held not your Purgatorie his was onely for veniall and light faults yours is for such as have not fully satisfied for the temporall punishment due to their mortall sinnes Againe his differeth from yours in situation for you place yours in some quarter bordering on hell but Gregorie tells us of certaine soules that for their punishment were confined to Bathes and such other places here on earth Besides Gregorie in his Dialogues whence you would prove your Purgatorie tells many strange tales as of one Stephen a Priest who had the Devill so serviceable to him as to draw off his hose of Boniface that wanting money procured divers crownes of our Lady and such like stuffe insomuch that your Canus saith Gregorie in his Dialogues hath published such miracles commonly received and believed which the censurers of this Age will thinke to be doubtfull and uncertaine Besides Gregorie had his Purgatorie and Soule masses from visions and feigned apparitions of Ghosts which the Scripture holds unwarrantable And yet Gregorie upon occasion of that place of Ecclesiastes If the tree fall towards the South or the North where it falls there it shall bee makes another inference namely this The just one in the day of his death falleth South-ward and the sinner North-ward for the just by the warmth of the spirit is carried into blisse but the sinner with the revolting Angel in his benummed heart is reprobated and cast away And Olympiodore who lived about the yeare 500 makes the very same inference and Gregorie elswhere to the same purpose saith that at the time of a mans dissolution either the good or evill spirit recâ—ives the soule as it comes out of the cloyster of the body and there without any change at all for ever retaines it that being onâ—e exalted it can never come to be punished and being plâ—nged into eternall paine can never thence be delivered Now if according to these testimonies after death there be no deliverance but that the soule for ever remaines in that degree and order wherein death takes it if there be no change after this life such as the Papists imagine theirs to be from the paines of Purgatorie to the joyes of heaven surely then there can be no Purgatory nothing but heaven or hel whither they that come abide for ever Now let us see what Gregorie held touching the Supremacie PA. Gregorie maintained his Supremacie did hee not PRO. Whatsoever he did Stapleton strives to uphold it by corrupting a place in Gregorie who speaking of Saint Peter and other Apostles saith that they were all members of the Church under one Head meaning Christ as his owne words make it cleere Now Stapleton to make the Pope Head of the Church citeth the words thus They are all members of the Church under one head Peter shuffling in the name Peter but for Saint Gregorie hee knew not your moderne papall Supremacie and when the See of Constantinople challenged the stile of Vniversall Bishâ—p he opposed it PA. He might dislike it in another and yet claime it himsâ—lfe PRO. He disclaimed it in any whosoever Now so it was Iohn Bishop of Constantinople seeing the Emperors seate translated thither and other Provinces governed by Lievtenants as also Rome besieged by the Lumbards thought this a fit season for the advancement of his chayre that the Imperiall City should also have the highâ—st chayre in the Church as the Emperour counted himselfe Lord of the World so he would be stiled Oecumenicall or Vniversall Patriarke in the Church Now when Iohn affected this Title Gregorie complained not that he wrong'd his See by usurping that stile as if it had belonged to the Pope but hee mislikes the transcâ—â—dent power claymed by that stile and he calls it A stile of noveltie and prophannesse such as never any godly man nor any of his predecessors ever used A name of Blâ—sphemie A thing contrarie to the Churches Canons to Saint Peter and to the holy Gospels Yea he pronounceth any one that should presume to challenge the forâ—said title To be the very forâ—runner of Antichrist because herein hee lifts himselfe above his brethren PA. Gregorie forbore this Title in humilitie thereby to represse Iohns insolencie PRO. This is as if a King should renounce his Royall Title to the end that a Rebell challenging it might disclaime it Gregorie indeed was an humble man and as one saith of him When he was in his Iollitie and Pontificalibus hee was not so much delighted therewith as an Hermit was with his Cat that he used to play withall in his Cell Gregorie indeed professeth to bee humble in mind but still so as to preserve the honour of his place Gregorie would lose nothing of his freehold I warrant you PA. Gregorie found fault with this Title in the sense that Iohn desired so to be universall and sole Bishop and the rest to be his Vicars or Deputies PRO. It is not likely the Bishop of Constantinople though he were a proud man would keepe all others from being bishops that is that they should neither ordaine Priests nor excommunicate nor absolve nor sit in Counsell but himselfe alone doe all Besides if Iohn had sought this surely the Greeke Bishops who consented to Iohns title of being their universall Patriarcke in respect of Order though not of Iurisdiction would never have yeelded to have made themselues onely Vicars to that one bishop and so deprive themselves of al Episcopall Iurisdiction Yea the same bishops though they submitted themselves to the bishop of Constantinople and approved his Title yet notwithstanding they exercised their ancient Iurisdiction over their severall Sees they were not degraded by Iohn or his Successor Cyriacus both which affected that Title The true and undoubted meaning then of Gregorie as his words import was this namely that Gregorie by impugning the Title of Vniversall bishop would have no Bishop so principall as to make all others as members subject to his Head-ship and is not the charge of bishops at this day under the Papacie for the most part Tiâ—ular they being wholly at the Popes becke PA. Was the Title of Vniversall Bishop so odious PRO. It was in that sense which Gregory taxed in the bishop othâ—rwise neither he nor wee mislike such Vniveâ—sall bishops as with Saint Paul Have the care of all Churches and in this respect godly bishops when they meete in Councels and in their owne Diocesses whiles by their wholesome advice admonition or reproofe by their writing or teaching they instruct others in the truth prevent Schisme and stop the mouth of Heresie may be called Bishops of the Vniversall Church Thus was Athanasius called a Bishop of the Catholike Chuâ—ch not as it precisely signifieth Vnivâ—rsall but rightly beleeving or holding the Catholike Faith PA. What conclude you out of all this PRO.
put a stole about his necke such as Priests use to weare and having his head feete and shoulders bare he led him by the sayd stole and made him goe nine times about the grave of the deceased Fryer scourging him with rods which the Legat had in his hand as long as he went about the sayd Sepulcher the Earle to get himselfe out of the Legats hand went to Rome and was there absolved by the Pope upon his returne the Legat refused to restore him but renewed the excommunication against him not as being guilty of the death of the sayd Monke but because he had not driven the Albigenses out of his Country as he was bound by promise The Earle seeing the Legats dealing strengthneth himselfe with his Allies and Confederates and so they fell to open hostility Lewis the sonne of Philippus Augustus was signed with the crosse on his military Cassocke and strongly beseiged Avignion one of the Earles chiefe Citties swearing that he would not depart thence till hee had taken the Towne but he was glad to goe aside to anâ— Abby not farre distant to avoyde the Pestilence whereon hee shortly after dyed the Legat the more easily to winne the Cittie kept secret the Kings death and despairing to prevaile by force attempted to doe it by fraud He cunningly perswaded the Citty to send unto him twelve of their Cittizens to conferre upon some good conditions giving them his oath for their safe returne protesting and swearing that he prolonged the seige for no other end but for the good of their soules but whâ—n the gates were opened to receive them so returning his army rushed in and tâ—oke the gate and finally the Citty contrary to his oath given Thus the Cittie of Avignion which could not be taken in three monethes seige and assault by the power of the King of France was easily taken by the fraud and perjury of the Popes Legat. Mathew Paris the Monke of Saint Albanes tells us what others thought of these proceedings it seemed unto many a great wrong saith he to trouble a faithfull Christian thus who earnestly entreated the Legat to examine the faith of his people and if any Citty held out against the Catholike faith he would make them give satisfaction and be punished as the Church should thinke fit and for himselfe he offered to give an account of his faith but as Mathew Paris saith the Legat nothing at all regarded these offers but sleigted them nothing would satisfie him unlesse the Earle would reâ—igne and quit claime his lands and his territories pro se haeredibus suis for himselfe and his Heyres for ever and accordingly they were given to Simon Montfort for service done and to be done to the Church PAP You must shew the continuance of your Waldenses as well as their numbers and multitude but that I thinke you cannot doe for now it seemeth they were rooted out PROT. Indeed that was strongly attempted Saint Dominick spent ten yeeres amongst the Tholousians and he and Didacus a Spanish B. marched against the Land of the Albigenses the Fryers Preached the Inquisitours ploted the Princes warred against them and the Popes they accursed their persons and interdicted their lands tolli tamen non poterant saith Paulus Aemylius and yet for all that the Pope could doe they could not be suppressed and yet the Pope condemned both the Humiliati and the poore men of Lyons for so they nicknamed them Iohn de Serres in his Inventory of the Historie of France tells us out of a Manuscript that as the Pope would have continued his persecution against them and that the Marshall de la Foy so called for that he was as it were the cheefe champion of the immortall warre decreed against the Albingenses prepared for a new sâ—arch to roote out the remainders Lewis would not allow of it saying that they must perswade them by reason and not constraine them by force whereby many families were preserved in these provinces By this wee see some reason given of their preservation and continuanceâ— and Thuanus a noble and unpartiall historian sometime president of the Court of Parliament in France directs us to the place of their aboade and habitation Though the Waldenses saith Thuanus were tossed from post to pillar as they say yet there were ever some found who in their severall courses have revived and renewed their doctrine buried as it were for a season and such were Iohn Wickliffe in England Iohn Hus in Bohemia Ierome of Prague and in our dayes Martin Luther so that reliquiae eorum the remnant and remainder of their doctrine and profession began to be kindly entertained and countenanced by many at Martin Luthers comming specially towards the Alpes and the provinces thereunto adjoyning The same Authour saith that after the Waldenses were overcome by force of armes they retired into Provence and towards the Alpes and in those plaâ—s they sought out some shelter for their life and profession of doctrine some of them went into Calabria where they continewed a long time even unto the dayes of Pope Pius the fourth anno 1560 some of them went into Germany and Bohemia and there set up their rest others of them came Westward into Brittaine and there tooke Sanctuary and harbour and â—here I leave them and come to Saint Bernard In this age â—lourished that devout Father Saint Bernard who in divers maine points of Religion held with us He beleeved Iustification by faith alone saying Let him beleeve in thee who justifiest the ungodly â—eiâ—g justified â—y faith only he shall haue peâ—ce with God He disclaimed Iustification by workes for he accounted no better of mens best actions as they proceed from man than of a menstruous cloath according to that of the Prophet All our righteousnesse is as filthy clouts Indeed he held good workes to bee the meanes by but not the causes why to be the Kings Highâ—way to eternall life but not to be any proper cause of salvation Now the high way is not the cause that makes a man come to his journeyes end the way is but the meanes the motion is the cause He left his owne Inherent and layd hold on Christs righteousnesse imputed to us saying What shall I sing of mine owne righteousnesse No Lord I will remember thy righteousnesse alone for that is mine too thou art made unto me of God righteousnesse should I feare that it will not serve us both It is not a short Cloake such as cannot cover two thy large everlasting mercie shall fully cover both thee and me in me it covers a multitude of sinnes in thee Lord what can it cover but the treasures of pietie and riches of bounty Concerning free will Saint Bernard reporteth that whiles he commended Gods free grace which prevented promoted and as he hoped would perfect the good worke begun in him some that stood by râ—plyed what is it
examining them The like may be sayd of Bede Gregorie and others that holding Christ the foundation a right and groaning under the weight of mens Traditions humane satisfactions and the like popish trash they by unfained repentaÌ„ce for their errours lapses knowne and unknowne and by an assured faith in their Saviour did finde favour with the Lord these and the like we hold to be Gods servants and propter meliorem saniorem partem by reason of their better and sounder part to be with us lively members of the true Church though in some things they were mistaken and that they may be termed professours of our faith inasmuch as the denomination is to be taken from the better part and not alwayes from the greater For example sake there is much water and little wine mixed in a glasse yet it is called a glasse of wine so say we of professors S. Bernard and such like there is in them some bad parts some superstition and Poperie and some good in that they hold Christ Iesus the foundation aright in this case they may in respect of their better part be termed and denominated true professors and therefore you must give us againe Saint Bernard with others to whoÌ„ you have no right or claime unlesse it be to their errours which they suckt in from the corrupt breasts of some of your side and so I proceed to the severall points in question Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Saint Bernard as wee heard approveth such a Councell wherein the Traditions of men are not obstinately defended but the revealed will of God enquired after for that this is all in all Claudius Seyssel Archbishop of Turin in Piedmont one that was Neighbour to the Waldenses and laboured to enforme himselfe touching their positions and also to confute them saith that they admitted onely the text of the old and new Testaments so that they denyed unwritten traditions to be the Rule of Faith Petrus Cluniacensis after he had reckoned up the canonicall bookes saith There are besides the authenticall bookes sixe other not to be rejected as namely Iudith Tobias Wisedome Ecclesiasticus and the two bookes of Macchabees which though they attaine not to the high dignitie of the former yet they are received of the Church as containing necessary and profitable doctrine Hugo de Sancto victore saith All the Canonicall bookes of the old Testament are twentie two there are other bookes also as namely the Wisedome of Salomon the booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach the bookes of Iudith Tobias and the Machabees which are read but not written in the Canon The Bible was translated into English some hundred yeares as it is probably conjectured before Wickliffs translation came forth a coppie of which auncient translation my selfe have seene in our Queenes Colledge Librarie in Oxford in the praeface whereof it may be seene that the translatour held the controverted bookes for Apocrypha for thus he saith what ever booke of the Old Testament is out of these he maketh the same â—anon with us twentie five before sayd shall be set among Apocrypha that is without authoritie of beleefe Therefore the booke of Wisedome Ecclesiasticus Iudith and Tobie bee not of beleefe Hierome saith all this sentence in the prologue on the first booke of Kings now if at that time the above sayd bookes had beene accounted Authenticall by the Church and of beleefe he would have sayd but this opinion of Hieromes is not approved by the Church as Doctor Iames hath well observed Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments HVgo de Sancto victore giveth a reason of the entire communicating in both kinds Therefore saith he the Sacrament is taken in both kindes that thereby a double effect might be signified For it hath force as S. Ambrose saith to preserve both body and soule Gratian rehearseth many ancient Canons and constitutions for communicating in both kinds Saint Bernard in his third Sermon on Palme Sunday maketh the Sacrament of Christs body and blood the Christians foode Touching the Sacrament of Christs body and blood saith he there is no man who knoweth not that this so singular a food was on that day first exhibited on that day coÌ„mended and coÌ„manded to be frequently received Saint Bernards words have reference to the Institution of Christ now at our Saviours last Supper there was Wine as well as Bread and Bernard treating thereof saith it was commanded to be frequently received now if the whole Church were enjoyned so to doe then also is every particular beleever who is of age fitted thereunto enjoyned to receive it accordingly The precise number of seaven Sacraments was not held for catholike doctrine no not in the Church of Rome untill more than a thousand yeares after Christ this is ingenuously confessed by Cassander Vntill the dayes of Peter Lombard who lived about the yeere 1145 you shall scarce finde any authour saith their Cassander who set downe any certaine and definite number of Sacraments neither did all the schoolemen call all those sâ—ven proper Sacraments but this is without all controversie saith the same Cassander that there are two chiefe Sacraments of our Salvation that is to say Baptisme and the Lords Supper and so speake Rupertus and Hugo de Sancto victore and he saith true for Rupertus putteth the question and asketh Which be the chiefe sacraments of our salvation and hee answereth Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord. Of the Eucharist IN this age â—ratian the Monke affoordeth us a notable testimony against transubstaÌ„tiatioÌ„ his coÌ„parison is thus drawne This holy bread is after its manner called the body of Christ as the offering thereof by the hands of the Priest is called Christs passion now the Priests oblation is not properly and literally in strict termes and sence the passion of Christ but as the Glosse hath it the Sacrament representing the body of Christ is therefore called Christ's flesh not in verity of the thing but in a mystery namely as the representation of Christ therein is called his Passion Gratians words are these As the heavenly bread which is Christ's flesh after a sort is called Christ's body whereas indeed it is the Sacrament of his body and the sacrificing of the flesh of Christ which is done by the Priest's hands is sayd to be his passion not in the truth of the thing but in a signifying mistery Iâ—annes Semeca who was the first that glossed upon Gratians decrees telleth us how this comparison is to be meant This Sacrament saith the Glosse because it doth represent the flesh of Christ is called the Body of Christ but improperly not in the truth of the thing but in the mysticall sence to wit it is called the Body of â—hrist that is it signifieth his Body From these premisses we inferre that after consecration the Sacrament is not in truth Christ's Body but onely in a
renowned among the Northerne English and one that was well acquainted with Bishop Tonstall his kinsman and Diocesan saith I remember that Bishop Tonstall often tolâ—e me that Pope Innocent the third had done very unadvâ—sedly in that hee had made the opinion of Transubstantiation an Article of Faith seeing in former times it was free to holde or refusâ— that opinion The same Bishop tolde me and many time ingenuously confessed that Scotus was of opinion that the Church might better and with more ease make use of some more commodious exposition of those words in the holy Supper and the Bishop was of the minde that we ought to speake reverently of the holy Supper but that the opinion of Transubstantiation might well be let alone This thing also the same Bishop Tonstall was wont to affirme both in words and writings that Innocent the third knew not what he did when hee put Transubstantiation among the Articles of Faith and he said that Innocentius wanted learned men about him and indeed saith the Bishop if I had beene of his councell I make no doubt but I might have beene able to have disswaded him from that resolution By this that hath beene sayd it appeares that Transubstantiation was neither holden nor knowne universally in the Church before the Lateran Councell twelve hundred yeares after Christ and that when it began to be received as a matter of Faith it was but beleeved upon the Churches authoritie and this Church virtually and in effect was Pope Innocent in the Lateran Councell twelve hundred yeeres and more after Christ before which time there was no certaintie nor necessity of beleeving it and the Councell might have chosen another sence of Christs words more easie and in all appearance more true there being no scripture sufficient to convince it Of Images and Prayer to Saints HOnorius of Authun in France saith There is none that is godly wise who will worship and adore the Crosse but Christ crucified on the crosse Roger Hoveden our native historian who lived in the beginning of this age condemned the adoration of Images for speaking of the Synodall Epistle written by the Fathers of the second Nicen councell wherein Image worship was established he tells us that Charles the King of France sent into this Isle a Synodall booke directed unto him from Constantinople wherein there were divers offensive passages but especially this one that by the joynt consent of all the Doctors of the East and no fewer than 300 Bâ—shops it was decreed that Images should be worshipped quod ecclesia Dei execratur saith he which the Church of God abhorres Guilielmus Altissiodorensis saith that for such and such reasons many doe say that neither we pray unto the Saints nor they pray for us but improperly in râ—spect we pray unto God that the merits of the Saints may hâ—lpe us Of Faith and Merit THomas Aquinas saith that workes be not the cause why a man is just before God but rather they are the execution and manifestation of his justice for no man is justâ—fied by workes but by the Habit of Faith infused yea justâ—fication is done by Faith onely And Aquinas in his commentary on the Galatians in the place alleadged tho at the first he mention such workes as are performed by the power of nature yet afterwards he speakes also of workes wrought by the power of grace and of such as Saint Iames mentions Chap. 2. saying Was not Abraham justified by workes but these were workes of grace and yet Thomas excludes from justification workes done in the state of Grace and saith Iustification is done by Faith onely Bonaventure saith that by onely Faith in Christs passion all the fault is remitted and without the faith of hâ—m no man is justified Velosillus in his animadversions upon the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church observeth that Scotus held not merit of Condigâ—ity And Vega saith that Thomas Aquinas the flower of the Schoole-Divines constantly affirmeth that a sinner can not merit his owne justâ—fication either of congruity or of condignity and thus have these men given in their verdict but now let us heare themselves speake There is no action of ours saith Scotus that without the speciall ordinance of God and his divine acceptation is worthy of the reward with which God rewardeth them that serve him in respect of the inward goodnesse that it hath from the causes of it because alwayes the reward is greater than the merit and strict Iustice doth not give a better thing for a thing of lesse value And againe hee saith That speaking of strict Iustice God is bound to none of us to bestow rewards of so high perfection as hee doth the rewards being so much greater in worth than any merits of ours The Prophet David saith the learned Archbishop of Armagh hath fully cleared this case in that one sentence Psalm 62.12 With thee Oh Lord is mercy for thou râ—wardâ—st every man according to his workes Originally therefore and in it selfe this reward proceedeth meerely from Gods free bounty and mercy but accidentally in regard that God hath tyed himselfe by his word and promise to conferre such a reward it now provâ—th in a sort to be an act of Iustice in regard of the faithfull performance of his promâ—se For promise amongst honest men is counted a due debt but the thing promised being free and on our part altogether undeserved if the promiser did not performe and proved not to be so good as his word hee could not properly be sayd to doe us wrong but rather to wrong himselfe by impayring his owne credit And therefore Aquinas confesseth That God is not hereby simply made a debtor to us but to himselfe in as much as it is requisite that his owne ordinâ—nce should be fullfilled William Bishop of Paris treating of prayer giveth us this Caveat Not to leane on the weake and fraile foundation of our owne merits but wholly denying our selves and distrusting our owne strength to relye on the sole favour and mercy of God and in so doing sayth hee the Lord will never faile us Cassander saith That both ancient aâ—d moderne with full consent professe to reposâ— themselves wholly upon the meere mercy of God and merit of Christ with an humble renunciation of all worthinesse in their owne workes and this doctrine Cassander derives through the lower ages of the Schoole-men and later writers Thomas of Aquine Durand Adrian de Trajecto afterwards Pope Adrian the sixth Clictoveus and delivers it for the voyce of the then present Church THE FOVRTEENTH CENTVRIE From the yeere of Grace 1300. to 1400. PAP WHat say you of this fourteenth Age PROT. In this Age learning began to revive for so it came to passe that divers learned men among the Greekes abhorring such cruelty as the Turkes used against their Countrey-men the Grecians left those parts and fled into Italy Now by their meanes the
have beene called Lollards of Lollium cockle or darnell and so saith the glosse in Linwood as also in the Squires prologue in Chaucer I smell a Loller in the wâ—nde quoth hee abideth for Gods digne passion for mee shall have a predication this Loller here will preach us sâ—mewhat here shall hee not preach here shall he no Gospell glose ne teach he beleeueth all in the great God quâ—th he he would sowne some difficulty or spring cockle in our cleare corne But they were called Lollards from one Raynard Lollard who at the first was a Franciscan Monke and an enemy to the Waldenses but yet a man carried with a sanctified desire to finde the way of salvation Hee afterwards taught the doctrine of the Waldenses was apprehended in Germany by the Monkes Inquisitours and being delivered to the secular power was burnt at Cologne He wrote a Commentary upon the Apocalyps wherein he applied many things to the Pope as to the Roman Antichrist This was he of whom the faithfull in England were called Lollards where he taught witnesse that Tower in London which at this present is called by his name Lollards Tower where the faithfull that profeâ—sed his religion were imprisoned Iohn lâ— Maire in the third part of the difference of Schismes puts him in the ranke of those holy men that have foretold by divine revelation many things that have come to passe in his time such as were Boccace Saint Vincent of Valence of the order of preaching Friers Ioâ—chim Abbot of Gaâ—abria to them he adjoyneth the Frier Râ—ynard Lollard And so I proceede to the severall points in question Of the Scriptures sufficiâ—nâ—y and Canon VVIckliffe saith that Christs law sufficeth by it selfe to rule Christs Church that a Christian 〈◊〉 well underâ—tanding it may thence gather sufficient knowledge during his pilgrimagâ— hâ—re on earth Lyra upon those words in the Gospell They have Moses and the Prophets let them heare them Luke 16.29 makes this inference Moses he taught morâ—lity and what was our duty to doe the Prophets taught mysteries and what we are to beleeve Et ista sufficiunt ad salutem and these are sufficient for our salvation and therefore it followes Heare them so that hee reduceth all to two heads the Agenda or practicall partâ— and the Credenda or Articles of the Creede and these essentiall necessaries contained in the Scriptures he makes sufficient to salvation Amongst the sundry opinions which Ockam reckons vp this is one sayth Ockam That onely those verities are to be esteemed Catholike and such as are necessarily to be beleeved for the attaining of salvation which either expressely are delivered in â—cripture or by necessary consequence may be inferred from things so expressed Richard Fitz-Raphe Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of Ireland saith It is defined in generall Councels that there are two and twenty Authenticall bookes of the Old Testament Nicholas Lyra the converted Iew is plentifull in this argument Now that I have by Gods helpe saith he written upon the Canonicall bookes of holy Scripture beginning at Genesis and so going on to the end trusting to the helpe of the same God I intend to write upon those other bookes that are not Canonicall such as are the booke of Wisedome Ecclesiasticus Iudith Tobias and the bookes of Macchabes and withall addeth that it is to be considered that these bookes which are not Canonicall are received by the Church and read in the same for the information of manners yet is their authority thought to be weake to prove things that are in controversie And the same Lyra writing vpon the first of Esdras the first Chapter saith That though the bookes of Tobias Iudith and the Maccabes be Historicall bookes yet he intendeth for the present to passe by them and not to comment on them and he gives his reason namely quia non sunt de Canone apud Iudaeos nec apud Christianos because they are not in the Canon neither with the Iewes nor with the Christians Wickliffe also held that there are but two and twenty Authenticall bookes of the Old Testament Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments THe custome of communicating in both kinds was not abolished in the beginning of this Age but was retained in certaine places especially in Monasteries untill the yeere of our Lord thirteene hundred and more Thus writeth Cassander Beatus Rhenanus saith that Conradus Pellicanus a man of wonderfull sanctity and learning did finde in the first constitution of the Carthusians That they were forbidden to possesse any vessels of price besides a silver Chalice and a pipe whereby the lay-people might sucke the blood of our Lord. Durand their profound Doctor denieth Matrimony to be a Sacrament properly so named and of the same nature with the rest or to give grace Robert Holcot our countrey-man denied that Confirmation was from Christs Institution now Bellarmine saith that Christ onely can institute a Sacrament Alphonsus à Castro telleth us and that from the testimony of Iodocus Clichtoveus and Thomas Walden a bitter adversary of Wickliffes that Wickliffe held extreame unction or annealing was not a Sacrament Of the Eucharist Ockam saith There are three opinions of Transubstantiation of which the first supposeth a conversion of the Sacramentall Elements the second an annihilation the third affirmeth the bread to be in such sort transubstantiated into the body of Christ that it is no way changed in substance or substantially converted into Christs body or doth cease to be but onely that the body of Christ in every part of it becomes present in every part of the bread This opinion he saith the Master of Sentences mentioneth not much disliking it yet it is not commonly holden Their owne Proctours and Canonists Hostiensis and Gaufridus tell us that there were divers in those dayes who taught that the substance of bread did remaine and this opinion say they was not to be rejected Durand was of opinion That the materiall part of the consecrated bread was not converted insomuch that Bellarmine professeth that saying of Durand is hereticall although he is no heretike because he is ready to submit to the judgement of the Church Wickliffe saith that Friers perverten the right faith of the Sacrament of the Auter and bringen in a new heresie of an Accident withouten subject and whence Holy writ sayes openly that this Sacrament is bread that wee breaken and Gods body they sayen that it is nother bread nor Gods body but accident withouten subject and nought and thus they leaven holy writ and taken new heresie on Christ and his Apostles and on Austin Ierom Ambrose Isidore and other Saints and the Court of Rome and all true Christian men that holden the faith of the Gospell Now for his owne opinion he expresseth it in these termes that the body of Christ was really truely in the Sacrament in his
which their Generall Zisca built as a Ciâ—ie of refuge for his men These Thaborites disâ—ented more from the Church of Rome aâ—d came indeed neerer to the puritie of the Gospell then the rest of the Hussites There is in Cochleus a confession of faith made by one Iohn Pezibram a Bohemian who speaking of these Thaborites recordeth these following to have beene some of their tenets namely That materiall Bread remaines in the Sacrament and herein they were very confident insomuch as Procopius one of their Governours saidâ— That if an hundred Doctors should hold the contrary hee would tâ—ll them to their face they were all mistaken Thâ—y held That the Saints now triumphant are not to be prayed unto Hâ—sse his schollers after his death brake downe Images in Churches and Monasteries Prateolus saith They denied Purgatory and by consequent Prayer for the dead They maintained Communion in both kinds to be administred to the Lay-people They held That Christ is the head of the Church and not the Pope as also that the Pope might erre and that divers Popes had beene Heretikes They held The holy Scriptures to bee the Iudge in point of controversie Lastly Husse was condemned by the Councell of Constance for holding That the Congregation of the Predestinates and Elect were the Church of God which yet was the selâ—e same doctrine which Gregory the Great taught For hee held the Church of God to consist of right Beleevers saying That Christ according to the grace of his fore knowledge hath built his holy Church of Saints which shall continue for ever and that All the Elect are contained within the compasse and circuit of the Church and all the Reprobates are without because they doe but only in outward shew come â—o the kingdome of grace So that Gregory saith as well as Husse That the Elect onely are of the Church Now as learned Doctor Field saith This was the meaning of Wickliffe Husse aâ—d others who say that the Elect only are of the Church defining the Church to bee the multitude of the Elect not for that they thinke them only to pertaine to the Church and no others but because they onely pertaine unto it principally fully effectually and finally and in them onely is found that which the calling of grace whence the Church hath all her being intendeth to wit such a conversion to God as is joyned with finall perseverance whereof others failing and comming short they are only in an inferiour and more imperfect sort said to bee of the Church PA. Did the doctrine of Husse and his followers continue any long time PRO. It continneth even unto this day for Cochleus in the yeare 1â—34 Wisheth that he may see the remainders of the Hussites to râ—turne to the Church and the Germans to cast out all nâ—w sâ—cts whereby it is cleere that Husses doctrine was sensibly and apparantly continued not onely unto the dayes of Luthâ—r who began not to show himselfe till the yeare 1517 but even after his time also PA. Had the Hussites any Bishops or Priests of their owne lawfully calleâ— PRO. Hussâ— and Hâ—erome were Priests themselves and whiles they lived they had Priests and Preachers and after their death theâ—r follower Got them a Bishop who was Suffâ—agan to the Archbishop of Prague and by him thâ—y put iâ—to holy Orders as many Clerkes as they would which thing the Archbishop tooke so ill that hâ—e suspended his Sâ—ffragan But it was not long afâ—er that Conradus the Archbishop himselfe became a follower of Husse likewise and under this Conrad President of the Convocation the Hussites held a Councel at Prague and there they compileda Confâ—ssion of their Faith which the said Archbishop and divers Barons of Bohemia did afterwards resoluâ—ely maintaine Besides Sigismund the Emperour in a treaty with the Bohemians Granted that the Bishops should promote to holy Orders the Bohemians even Hussites which were of the Vniversitie of Prague PA. Were there many that followed Husse and were they of the better sort or onely some meane persons PRO. They were neither few nor base had they beene few what needed the Pope call the great Councâ—l of Constance against them What needed Pope Martâ—n the fift publish and proclaime a Croysado against them promising remission of sinne to all such as did either fight against them or contributed towards the warres Our rich Cardinal Henry Beaufort was sent into Germany by the Pope in the yeare 1429 to raise forces against the Hussites in Bohemia Cochleus saith There were forty thousand German Horsemen gathered together to destroy them but upon their approach the Germans turned their backes and fled not without some secret judgement of God as he thinkes Sylviusâ—aith â—aith There were three severall Armies levied against the Hussites entring Bohemia in three places but as thâ— story saith Non visum hostem fugerunt they â—led before they did see the enemie and againe the second timâ— Priusquam hostis ullus daretur in conspectus foedissima coepta fuga they fled away with shame before any enemy came to fight and left their Tents to the Bohemians insomuch as Iulian Cardinal of Saint Angelo marvailes exceedingly at this their sodaine feare and shamefull flight When Pope Eugenius had sent the same Cardinal Iulian his Legate to the Councel of Basil and presently after sent him commandment to dissolve it Iulian laied open unto him by letters how great an injurie he should doe himselfe and brought many reasons against it among others this that the Bohemians who had beene called thither would by good right say Is not heere the finger of God to bee seene Behold Armies have so often fled from before them and now the Vniversall Church also flâ—â—th behold they can neither be overcome with Armes nor by Lâ—arning this must needs appeare a miracle wrought by God to declare that their opinion is true and ours false Neithâ—r were the Hussites any such meane persons for eâ—en the Nobles of Bohemia sent two solemne Ambasâ—ages to the Councel of Constance in the behalfe of Husse and when the Councell neglected their request and dealt ill with them burning their Pastour Husse notwithstanding his safe conduct given him by the Empâ—rour then indeed they defended themselves undâ—r thâ— conduct of Iohn Zâ—scay their Geâ—erall who at one time led foâ—â—â— thoâ—sand â—ouldiers into the field and had such successe in his enterpâ—ises that Aeneas Sylvius reports of him That eleven times in fought battailes hee returned Conquerour out of the field Yea Cochleus wondereth at the strange successe he had saying That scant any historie of the Greekes or Latins or Hebrewes doth mention such a Generall a Zisca was Now for thâ—ir visible Congregations there needes no other Testimonie than this when the Councel of Constance had robbed them of their Minister Husse and nimmed from them the blessed Cup of
saying of Ernestus Arch-bishop of Magdeburg lying on his death-bed some five yeares befoâ—e Luther shewed himselfe It is witnessed by Clement Schaâ— Chaplaine to the said Arch-bishop and one who was present at his death that a Frier Minor used this speech to the Archbishop Take a good heart most worthy Prince wee communicate to your excellencie all the good workes not onely of our selves but our whole order of Frier Minors and therefore doubt not but you receiving them shall appeare before the tribunall Seate of God righteous and blessed Whereunto the Arch-bishop replyed By no meanes will I trust upon my owne workes or yours but the workes of Christ Iesus alone shall suffice upon them will I repose my selfe THE SIXTEENTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 1500. to 1600. Of Martin Luther PAPIST WHat say you of this sixteenth Age PROTESTANT We are now by Gods assistance come to the period of time which was agreed upon in the beginning of our conference to wit to the dayes of Martin Luther for about the yeare of Grace 1517 hee beganne to teach and Preach against Indulgences And withall I have produced a Catalogue of our professours unto this present sixteenth Centurie PA. Stay your selfe you must saith Master Brerely show us your professours during the twentie yeares next before Luther PRO. It is done already for besides our English Martyrs we have produced Trithemius the Abbot and Savonarola both which lived within the time mentioned and held with us the Article of free Iustification and Savonarola howsoever the matter be otherwise coloured was burnt for Religion in the yeare 1498. Besides there have beene in all Ages and in the time mentioned such as held the substantiall Articles of our Religion both in the Roman and Greeke Church and by name the Grecians in common with us have openly denyed the Popes Supremacie Purgatorie private Masses Sacrifices for the dead and defended the lawfulnesse of Priests marriage Likewise in this Westerne part of the world the Schollers of Wickliffe called Lollards in England the Taboâ—ites in Bohemia and Waldenses in France maintained the same doctrine in substance with our moderne Protestants as appeareth by a Confession of the Waldensian Faith set forth about the yeare of Grace 1508 which was within the time prefixed Neither did these whom we have produced dissemble their Religion but made open profession thereof by their Writings Confessions and Martyrdomes as also their just Apologies are extant to cleere them from the Adversaries imputation PA. I thought Luther had beene the first founder of your Religion for there bee some of your men who call him the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine PRO. Luther broached not a new Religion he onely drained and refined it from the Lees and dregs of superstition he did not forme or found a new Church which was not in being but onely reformed and purged that which he found from the soilâ— of errours and disorders When Hilkiah the Priest in Iosiah's time found out the booke of God he was thereby a meanes to bring to light what the wicked proceedings of Manasses Amon and others had for a season smothered and so did Luther he was the instrument whom God used for the farther enlightning his Church and yet hereupon it no more followeth that he was the first that preached our Religion than upon the former that Hiâ—kiah first preached the Law The Protestants Church by Luthers meanes began no otherwise in Germanie than health begins to be in a body that was formerly sicke and overcharged and now recovered So that in respect of doctrine necessary to salvation the Church in her Firme members as Saint Austine speakes was the same before Luther and afterwards and it began to be by his meanes onely according to a greaâ—er measure of knowledge and freedome from such corruptions as formerly like ill humours oppressed it and oveâ—charged it The Proâ—estants Church then is the same with all good and sound Christians that lived before them and succeedeth the sound members of the visible Chuâ—ch that kept the life of true Religion in the substantiall matters of Faith and Godlinesse though otherwise those times were daâ—kened with a thicke mist of errours Now whereas some call Luther the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine they did not therâ—by intend that he was the fiâ—st that ever preached the dâ—ctrine of the râ—formed Churches for they could not be ignorant that after Christ and his Apostles and the Fathers of the first five Ages Bertram and Aâ—lfricke and Berenger Peter Bruis and Henry of Tholouse Dulcinus and Anâ—ldus and Lollardus Wickliffe Husse Hierome of Pragâ—e and others stood for the same truth which we professe but their meaning was that Luther was the first who in their Age and memorie publickly and succesfully set on foot a generall reformation of the Church in these Westerne parts And thus in a tollerable sense Luther may bee called the first Apostle of the Reformation though not simply the first that preached the Protestants doctrine Americus Vesputius is reported to have discovered the West Indies or America and withall beares the name thereof and yet Christopher Columbus discovered it before him Bishop Iewell saith that in Luthers dayes in the midst of the darknesse of that Age there first began to shine some glimmeâ—ing beame of truth his meaning is not that the truth was then first revealed but that by Luthers mâ—anes it was manifested in a fuller measure and degree of lâ—ght and knowledge than it was in the fâ—rmer and daâ—ker times of Poperie yea he giveth pâ—rticular instance of true professours that were before Luther namely Saint Hilarie Gregory Bernard Pauperes de Lugduno the â—ishops of Greece and Asia as also Valla Marsilius Petrarch Savonarola and others PA. Did Luther himselfe acknowledge he had any predecessors or fore-runners PRO. I answer with my worthy and learned friend Doctor Featly that Luther acknowledged the Waldenses termâ—d fratres Pigardi as appeares by his Preface before the Waldension Confession I found saith hee in these men a miracle almost unheard of in the Popish Church to wit that these men leaving the doctrines of men to the utmost of their endeavour meditated in the Law of God day and night and were very ready and skilfull in the Scriptures whereas in the Papacie the greatest Clerkes uâ—terly neglected the Scriptures I could not but congratulate both them and us that wee were together brought into one sheepfold Of Iohn Husse and Hiâ—rome of Prague he saith They burned Iohn Husse and Hierome both Catholike men they being themselves Heretikes and Apostates and in his third Preface hee saith hee hath heard from men of credit that Maximilian the Emperour was wont to say of Iohn Husse Alas alas they did that good man wrong And Erasmus Roterodam in the first bookes which hee printed lying yet by me writeth That Husse indeed was condemned and burned but not convicted PA. To
what Church did Luther joyne himselfe and why left hee the Roman Church PRO. Hee joyned himselfe in point of faith to the ancient Primitive and Apostolicke Church that went before him and for his present Communion to that sound part of the Roman Church which then with him hated the corruptions which the Romish faction for the maintenance of their pompe and profit had upheld In particular hee joyned himselfe to those honourable personages the Dukes of Saxony and Wittenberge and the Earle of Mansfield and to such Châ—istian congregations as within their territories began to abandon Poperie and reforme themselves He received Ordination in the Church of Rome this ordination for substance was good and by vertue thereof hee preached tâ—e word and brought the people to see and detest not the Church of Rome but her corruptions from whence hee severed himselfe to wit from the Roman Court and faction therein so that hee leapt not out of the Church hee kept himselfe still within the barne-floore thereof onely he leapt out of the huske of popish errours Now this his separation and ours from errour â—s warranted by Gods word since Gods people are commanded and that upon a grievous penalty to depart out of Babylon and spirituaâ—l Sodome and this we â—ake to be Rome since your owne Iesuites that have commented on the Revelation call Rome Babylon and that this is to be understood not onely of heathâ—n Rome but of Rome Christian after that it had forsaken heaâ—henisme and had received the faith of Christ and turned againe from that unto Antichristianisme PA. If any Protestant Church were in being before or at Luthers appearing then would they upon his preaching have acknowledgâ—d him and joyned themsâ—lves to him but as Bellâ—rmine saâ—th they did not PRO. Alphoâ—sus de Casiro saith Neither did Luther in this age come â—orth alone but accompanied with a grâ—at troope as with a Guard waiting for Lâ—tâ—er as for tâ—eir Captaine and Leader such were Philip Melanchton Conradus Pâ—llicanâ—s â—ambert Fabricius Capito â—siâ—â—der Stuâ—mius aâ—d Maâ—tin Bucer and thâ—se saith he seemed to have â—xpectâ—d him bâ—fore hee came and upon his comming dâ—lclâ—aâ—e unto him so that hee wanted noâ— such as gave him the right hands of fellowship Galat. 2.9 Carolus Miâ—titius being sent from Pope Leo to Frederike professed That all the way as he came having sâ—undâ—d mâ—ns affâ—ctions hee found three to favour Luthâ—r for one that favoured the Pope And Lutâ—er professeth that the applause of the world did much support him most men being weary of the frauds and wicked pâ—actices of the Romanists Neither are these penurious examples to give instance in Melanchton Pellican Bucer and others as Brereley scornefully calleth iâ— for they were as great schollâ—rs as that age affâ—â—ded Pâ—llican was one who made great helpe for râ—viving tâ—e Hebrew tongue and was Luthers ancient and so was Ioâ—n Capnio or Reuchlin who brought Greeke and Hebrew into Germany Now bâ—sides his câ—evals and contemporaries the Waldâ—nâ—es as also Iohn Hâ—sse bare a torch before Luther and shâ—wed him his way PA. Master Brereley saith That Melanchton Pâ—lican and Bucer were originally Catholikes and followed Luthers example in revolting from the Catholike Church PRO. Saint Paul was originally a Pharisee and yet hee did well to forsake the leaven of their traditions and embrace the doctrine of the Gospell And so did Saint Austin the errour of the Manichees and Pelagians and embraced the truth of the Gospell Besides they left not the Catholike but the Roman Church nor that altogether but the faction that was therein to wit the papacie PA. Schlusselburg saith It is impudencie to say that many learned men in Germany did hold the doctrine of the Gospell before Luther PRO. Schlusselburgs words are these Vtenhovius writes impudently that he heard Pellican affirme that many learned men in Germany held the doctrine of the Gospel before Luther appeaâ—ed and that Pellican himselfe impugned the popish purgatory before the name of Luther was heard of Now why may wee not beleeve Vtenhovius and Pellican affirmâ—ng the same and being honest men as well as Schlusselburg denying it Besides admit there were not any in Germany yet there might be elsewhere many thousands as in Bohemia France and England and other parts who bâ—fore Luthers time embraced the doctrine of the Gospell PA. Master Brereley saith out of Luthers workes that upon a conference had with the Devill Luther gave over the Masse and changed his Religion PRO. Suppose this Conference were extant in all the Dutch copies of Luthers workes which yet some make doubt of yet might this conference bee onely imaginary even a strong spirituall 〈◊〉 and not â—ny personall or reall conference now from such a spiâ—ituall conflict dreame or appâ—â—ition you cannot draw any sound proofe But supposing the truth of this conference had not Christ a conâ—â—â—â—nce with Sathan and Saint Bernarâ— a combat with him is theiâ— religion ere a whit â—he worse to be liked Your Romish Saints were very familiar with the Devill Saint Oswald wrestled with him Saint Dunstane tooke him by the nose Christopher in the Legend is said to have served the Devill and Saint Xavier was usually vexed with him after Dinner Supper Recreation and saying of Masse insomuch as the Devill oft times put him into a cold sweat as Hâ—ssenmullerus reporteth of him from Turrian the Iesuite PA. The Devill brought arguments against saying of Masse and disputed against it therefore the Masse is good or else the Devill would not have found fault with it PRO. This followeth not for every thing the Devill mislikes is not therefore good neither is all he moves one unto therefore bad For instance sake he came in the habit of Saint Vrsula and moved one to enter into the Order of Nunnes will you say therefore veiling of Nunnes is bad PA. Luther used the selfe-same arguments against the Masse which Satan did now how could they bee good proofes that were brought in by Satan or why would Luther beleeve him PRO. Luther shewes onely how Satan tempted hâ—m to despaire for that he had beene a Masse-monger which Luther knew to be naught without the Devils prompting Besides all that the Devill speakes is not devillish the Devils that possessed the men confessed and sayd Thou art Christ the Sonne of the living God afterwards they entred into the Heard of Swine now the Heardmen they came into the Citty and told what was done and sayd now what though the Hâ—ard-men told how the Devils confessed this Article of the Christian Faith That Christ was the Sonne of the living God was not this a true confession though the Heard-men had fiâ—st heard it from the Devils and likewise reported it from them Luther heard such and such arguments against the Masse might not those arguments be true though Luther heaâ—d them from Satan Gods Ape It is true indeed that the Devill in telling truth
amisse and not to prosecute Luther but this Councel was not followed wherupon divers parts according to Gersons Councel began this worke of Reformation so much desired by all good men howsoever opposed by the pope and his adherents PA. A Reformation presupposeth that things were amisse will you charge the Catholicke Church with errour PRO. Wee say that particular Churches and such is that of Rome may erre and divers have erred Sixtus Senensis reckons up many Fathers that held the Millenary errour mistaking that place in the Revelation 20.5 They said that there should be two Resurrections the first of the godly to live with Christ a thousand yeares on earth in all wordly happinesse before the wicked should awake out of the sleepe of death and after that thousand yeares the second Resurrection of the wicked should bee to eternall death and the godly should ascend to eternall life this errour continued almost two hundred yeares after it began before it was condemned for an heresie and was held by so many Church-men of great account and Martyrs that Saint Augustine and Ierome did very modestly dissent saith the same Senensis The opinion of the necessity of Infants receiving the Sacrament of the Lords body and blood as well as Baptisme did possesse the minds of many in the Church for certaine hundreds of yeares as appeareth by that which Saint Austine writeth of it in his time and Hugo de Sancto victoâ—e many hundred of yeares after him Were there not also superstition and abuses in the primitive Churches did not a Councell forbid those night vigils which some Christians then used at the graves of the Martyrs in honour of the deceased Saints and are not these Vigils now abolished Doth not Saint Aâ—stine confesse there were certaine Adoratores sepulchrâ—rum â—t picturarum worshippers of tombes and pictures in the Church in his time and doth not the same Father taxe them for it To come to later times Thomas Bradwardine complayned That the whole world almoâ—t was gone after Pelagius into errour arise therefore O Lord saith hee and judge thine owne cause Gregorius Ariminensis saith That to affirme that man by his naturall strength without the speciall helpe of God can doe any vertuous action or morally good is one of the damned heresies of Pelagius or if in any thing it differ from his heresie it is further from truth The same Gregory saith The heresies of Pelagius were taught in the Church and that not by a few or them meane men but so many and of so great place that hee almost feared to follow the doctrine of the Fathers and oppose himselfe against them therein Cardinall Contaren saith That there were some who pretended to be Catholikes and opposite to Luther who whiles they laboured to advance free-will too high they detracted too much from the free-grace of God and so became adversaries to the greatest lights of the Church and friends to Pelagius It is not strange then that weâ— say there hath beene a defection not onely of Heretikes from the Câ—urch and faithâ— but also in the Church of her owne children from the sincerity of faiâ—h dâ—livered by Christ and his Apostles not for that all or the whole Church at any time did forsake the true faith but for that many fell from it according to that of Saint Paul 1. Tim. 4.1 In the last times some shall depart from the faith attâ—nding to spirits of errour Besides such a famine of the word as fell out in these later times must needs have brought in corruption in doctrine and this was it that called for Reformation For in sundry ages last past the Roman Church hath behaved her selfe more like a step-dame then a naturall mother insomuch as shee hath deprived her children of a principall portion of the food of life the word of God her publike readings and service were in an unknowne tongue the holy Scriptures were closed up that people might not cast their eyes upon them fabulous Legends were read and preached insteed of Gods word but as Claudius Espencaeus a Doctor of Paris a bitter enemy to Bâ—za and therefore more worthy of credit in this bâ—halfe saith Our Ancestors as devoutly affâ—cted to the Saints as we thought is not fit that the rehearsall of the Saints lives should shoulder out the bookes of the old and new Testament and the reading thereof And hereby it came to passe as one of their owne Authors saiâ—h That the greater number of people understood no more concerning God and things divine in particular and distinct notions then Infidels or heathen people And here in England there was such a dearth of the word in these later times of popeâ—y that some gave five markes some more some lesse for an English booke some gave a load of hay for a few Chapters of Saint Iames or of Saint Paul in English Was it not now high time to reforme these things but Rome would neither acknowledge her errours nor reâ—orme them but rather sought to defend them persecuting such as by authority established laboured this reformation How easie and safe had it beene for Rome had shee tendered the peace of Christendome to have according as the truth required permitted the uâ—e of the Cup as sometime the Councell of Basil allowed it to the Bohemians and the publike service of God in a knowne language as was sometimes granted to the Slavons as also to have abolished the worship of Imâ—ges and the like without which the Church wâ—s and that very well for a long time But Rome would not yeeld in one point lest shee should bee suspected to have erred in the rest and therely the Infallibility of the Roman Oracle the Pope bee called in question PA. That which is reformed remaines the same in substance that it was before And therefore the Catholike Religion and the substantiall exercise thereof should have remayned in England upon the Reformation but you have set up another Religion PRO. We doe not say that the Catholike Religion is reformed for that cannot bee amended but that wee have reformed Religion in that we have purged it from certaine devises and corruptions which had crept into it Before this reformation Religion was like to a certaine lumpâ— or masâ—e consisting partly of gold aâ—d partly of other refuse mettall and drosse to a sicke body wherein besides the flesh blood and bones and vitall spirits there were also divers naughty humours that had surprised the body our reformation tooke not away your gold to wit those fundamentall truths wherein you agree with us but purged it from the drosse it drew not the good blood from the body but onely purged out the pestilent humour so that we have retained whatsoever was sound Catholike and primitively ancient onely those things that were patched to the ground-soles of Religion that wee have pared away as superfluous wee have not removed the ancient land-markes
but only cast downe some encroachments and improvements of poperie wee have no more erâ—cted a new faith in respect of the substance and essentials thereof than that zealous reformer Iosia built a new materiall Temple when hee cast out the Idols and Idolatrous worship out of the Lords house There is no other difference betwixt the Reformed and the Romish Church then betwixt a field well weeded and the same field formeâ—ly overgrowne with weeds or betwixt a heape of corne now well winnowed and the same heape lately mixed with chaffe And if it be a vaine and frivolous thing to say it is not the same field or the same corne as vaine and frivolous is it to say the Church is not the same it was or in the same place after it is swept and cleansed of the filth and dust or to say the Churches of Corinth and Galatia after their reformation occasioned by Saint Pauls writing were new Churches and not the same they were before because that in them before the Resurrection was denied Circumcision practisâ—d discipline neglected and Châ—isâ—s Apostles contemned which things now are not found in them or to say Naaman was not still the same person because before hee was a Leper and now is cleansed PA. If our Romane Church were so corrupt whence then had you the truth what you had you received from us PRO. Saint Austine saith that the Iewes were to the Christians Library-keepers of the bookes of the Law and the Prophets and might not the Romanists performe the like office to the Protestants The Iewish Church what time it was unsound preserved the Scriptureâ—Canon and by transcribingâ— and reading the same delivered the whole text therof trâ—ly to others And thus the Roman Church though in many things unsound preserved the bookes of holy Scripture and taught the Apostles Câ—eed with sundry parts of divine truth gathered from the same and by these principles of Christianitie preserved in that Church judicious and godly men might with study and diligence finde out what was the first delivered Christian doctâ—ine in such things as were necessary to salvation And herein was Gods gracious providence sâ—ene that even that Church wherein Luther himselfe received his Christianitie Ordination and power of Ministerie should for the benefit of Gods children preserve the Word and Sacraments and deliver them over to us though somewhat corruptly by their adding more Sacraments than ever Christ ordained and abusing those which we retaine with divers unwarrantable rites and Ceremonies In a word we received from you some truth mingled with errour wee have pared away your corruption as a worme out of an Apple and retained the wholsome and substantiall truth PA. Was there any Chucrh in being save our Roman Catholick in thâ— Ages next before Luther if so show uâ— where it was and with whom it held Communion PRO. When Christ came first into the World the Iewish Church was corrupted both in doctrine and manners this Church had in it Scribes and Pharisees as well as Zachary and Elizabeth Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna with others these were all of the same outward Communion with the Priesthood for they resorted to the Temple there they prayed and performed such holy rites as God himselfe enjoyned untill they heard farther of the Gospel by Christs manifestation Now I demand were not Ioseph and Mary and such good people â—ound members of Gods Church although the Scribes and Pharisees bore all the sway in the Church and had the Priesthood the word and Sacraments in their dispensing yet even then God had a Remnant of holy people which made up his Church though others went under the name thereof and exceeded them in number Now with these the sound part kept an outward Communion yet did not partake in all their erronious doctrines but condemned their grosser errours In like sort we were all of one outward Communion of one Church wherin salvation was and yet we shared not in those errours which a faction in the Church like the Pharisees of old maintained For as learned Dr. Field saith The errours which wee condemne at this day whereupon the difference groweth betweene us and the Romish faction were never generally received nor constantly delivered as the doctrines of the Church but doubtfully disputed and proposed as the opinions of some men in the Church not as the resolved determinations of the whole Church For had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would have holden them entirely and constantly as they held the doctriâ—e of the Trinity and other Articles of the Faith And I have already showne from age to age that the errours condemned by us never found generall allowance and constant consent in the dayes of our fathers but that some worthy guides of Gods Church ever opposed them And thus was our Church preserved under the Papacie as wheaâ—e is among tares for wee were formerly mingled together like corne and chaffe in one heape until the time of Reformation came and winnowed our wheat from the chaffe of Poperie So that howsoever divers under the Papacie not brooknig Reformation maintained sundry erronious opinions Yet there were other worthies who living within that Communitie were not equally poysoned with errour but firmely beleeved all fundamentall truth and delivered the maine Articles of Christianitie over unto others For Answer then to the Question Where had our Church her being in the Ages next before Luther we say It was both within the Romane Church and without it For as learned Doctor Chaloner saith Our Church had in those dayes a twofold Subsisâ—encie â—he one Separate from the Church of Rome the other Mixt and conjoyneâ— with it Separate so it was in the Albâ—genses and Waldenses a peâ—ple whoâ— so soone as the Chuâ—ch of Rome had inteâ—preted her selfe touching sundry of those maine poynts of dâ—ffâ—rence betweene us and that a man could no lâ—nger Communicate with her in the publicke worship of God by reâ—son of soâ—e Idolatrous rites and customes which shâ— had establishâ—dâ— arose in France Savâ—y and the places neere adjoyning and professed the same substantiall Negatives and Affirmatives which we doe in a state Sepaâ—atâ— from the Church of Rome having Pastours and Congregations apart to themselves even unto this day From these descended the Wicklefisâ—s in England and the Hussites in Germanie and oâ—hers in other Countries who Maâ—gre the â—urie of fire and Sword maintained the same doctrine as they did The state of the Church mixt and conjoyned with the Church of Rome it selfe consisted of those who making no visible separation from the Roman profession as not perceiving the mysterie of iniquity which wrought in it did yet mislike the grosser errours and desired a Reformation To answer then the quâ—stion directly where was the Prâ—testants Church before Luthers time that is where was any Church in the world that taught that doctrine which the Protestants now teach â—
say it was not onely apparant enough in the Greeke and Easterne Churches and in such as had made an open separation from the Romish corruptions such as were in these Westerne parts the Wâ—ldenses Wickleâ—iâ—ts and Hussites but it was also within the community of the Romish Church it selfe even there as in a large field grew much good corne among tares and weeds there as in a great bâ—rne heape or garner was preserved much pure graine mixed with store of chaffe Object I except against that you have said Master Brereley cals it a Ridle To say your Church was under the Papacie as wheat is under the chaffe and yet the Papacie was not the true Church Answer It is no Enigma or Ridle it being all one in effect as to say the Christian Church at our Saviours comming and after consisting of Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna the Shepherds and the Sages Christs disciples and others was in and under the Iewish Church consisting of Scribes and Pharisees who with their false glosses and vaine traditions had corrupted the Law of God was not sanum membrum a sound part of Gods Church but as our Saviour saith Like sheepe without a Shepheard Mark 6.34 Object You say your Church was under the papacie but the papacie was not the true Church by the like reason you may say that the hidden Church of God is preserved among the Turkes can there be a Church without an outward ministerie Answer It followeth not and the reason of the difference is because amongst the Turkes there is not that meanes of salvation inasmuch as they have not given their names to Christ but the true Church of God may bee preserved withiâ— the Romish Church in as much as they have the Scriptures though in a strange tongue as also Baptismeâ— and lawfull ordination and the like helpes which God in all ages used that his Elect might begathered out of the midst of Babylon And whereas you urge an outward and publike ministery this maketh nothing against the Church of England which for substance hath the same descent of outward ordination with the Roman Church neither can any man shew a more certaine pedegree from his great Grand father than our Bishops and Pastors can fâ—om suâ—h Bishops as your Church accounts canonâ—call in the time of King Henry the eight and upward such â—aâ—re evidence can wee produce for an outward and publâ—ke miâ—istery in the Church of England and such ordination wee hold very necessary and yet in case it cannot be had Gods children by their private reading and meditation of that which they have formerly learned may supply the defect of a publike ministery even as some Christians at this day being slâ—ves in Turky or Barbarie may be saved wiâ—hout externall ministery but this is in case of extremity for us we never wanted a standing ministery Neither did the Waldenses Wicklivâ—sts and Hussites for so I call them for distinction sake ever want an outward and lawfull ministery amongst them for the administration of the word and Sacramentsâ— Object You say your Professors communicated with the Roman Church but did not partake in her errours as you call them did they not joyne with them in the Massâ— and the Letanies of the Saints and the like Answer The thing wee say is this that howsoever they outwardly communicaâ—ed with Rome yet divers of them misliked in their heart their grosser erroâ—s they groaned under the Babylonish yoake and desired reformation besides many of them were ignorant of the depth and mysterie of poperie Object If your Protestant Church were in bâ—ing at and before Luthers appearing then did such as were members thereof either make profession thereof or not if they did tell us their names and where they did so if they did not then were they but dissemblers in Religion according to that of Saint Paul Rom. 10.10 and our Saviour Math. 10.33 Answer I will but take what your Rhemists grant and reâ—oâ—t your owne argument they say That the Catholike Church in their time was in England although it had no publike government nor open free exercise of holy function whence I argue thus if their Roman Church had any being at that time in England then their Priests and Iesuits either made publike profession of their faith or not if they made open profession why then did they goe in Lay-mens habits and lurke in corners if they made not open profâ—ssion then were they but dissemblers Besides I have already given you in a Catalogue of our professors who within the time mentioned witnessed that truth which wee maintaine by their writings confessiâ—ns and Martyrdom Now for us wee have rejected nothing but popery wee have willingly departed from the Communion of their errors and additions to the faith but from the Communion of the Church wee never departed In a word there were some who openly and constantly withstood the errours and corâ—uptions of their time and sealed with their bloud that truthâ— which they with us professed others dissented from the same errours but did not with the like courage oppâ—se themselves such as would sâ—y to their friends in private Thus I would say in the Schooles and openly Sed maneat inter nos diversum sentio but keepe my Councel I thinke the contrary PA. Was not the Masse publickly used in all Churches at Lâ—thers aâ—pearinâ— was Protestancie then so much as in being saith Master Bâ—eâ—ely PRO. If by a Protestant Church saith learned Doctor Field we meâ—ne a Church beleeving and teaching in all poinâ—s as Protestants doe and beleeving and teaching nothing but that they doe the Latine or West Church wherein the Pope â—yranâ—ized before Luthers time was and continuâ—d a true Protestant Church for it taught as we doe it condemned the superstition wee have removed it groaned under the yoke of tyranny which wee have cast off howsoever there were many in the midâ—t of her that brought in and maintained superstition and advanced the Popes Supremacie But if by a Protestant Church they understand a Church that not onely dislikes and complaines of Papal usurpation but also abandonâ—th it and not onely teacheth all necessary and saving truth but suffâ—reth none within her jurisdiction to teach otherwise wee confesse that no part of the Westerne Church was in this sort a Pâ—otestant Church till a Reformation was begun of evils formerly dislikâ—d Now whereas it is objâ—ctâ—d that the Masse wherein they say many chiefe poinâ—s oâ— their Râ—ligion are comprehended was publickely uâ—ed at Luthers appearing It is answered by Doctor Field that thâ— usiâ—g oâ— the Masse as the publicke Liturgie is no good proofe inasmuch as manifold abuses in pâ—actice besides and contrary to thâ— word of the Canon and the inâ—enâ—â—â—â— of them that first compoâ—ed the sameâ— have creâ—t into iâ— as also sundry Apocryphall thiâ—gs have slipt into the publicke Service of the Church these things will bâ—tter appeare by â—articular instances Concerning private
Masses wherein the Pâ—iests alone doth Communicatâ— without the pâ—ople it is contraâ—y to â—he Canon of â—he Mâ—sse saying in the â—lurall number Sumpsimus we have â—ecâ—ived anâ— Quoâ—quot ex hoc altaris participatione c. That all wee which in â—he participatâ—on of the Altar have receivâ—d the sacred body and bloud of tâ—y Sonneâ— c. Iohn Hossmeâ—ster a learned man expounding the prayers of thâ— Massâ— hath these wâ—rds The thing it sâ—lfe proclaimeth it thâ—t as wâ—ll in the Greâ—ke as Latine Church not onely the Priest which sacrifâ—â—eth but the other Priests and Deacons also yea and the people or at leâ—st some part of them did Commuâ—icateâ— which custome how it grew out of use I know not but surely wee should labour to bring it in againe By this it appeares that the Priests receiving alone and the neglecting or excluding the communicating of others as noâ— much necâ—ssâ—ry is indeed a poynt of Romish Religion but conâ—rary to the words of the Canon and â—he ancient custome of the Church it proceeded from the iâ—devotion of the people or rather â—he neglâ—gâ—nce or errour of the guides of â—he Church that either failed to stirre them up to the performâ—nce of such a duty or made them belâ—eve their Act wâ—s sufficient to comâ—unicate the benefits of Christs passion to thâ—m but this course was misliked by them of the betâ—er sort Concerning Communion in one kind that is another poynt of Romish Religion supposed to be conteined in the Masse which yet wanâ—s the liking and approbation of the best and woâ—thiest guides of Gods Church then living Cassander saith It is sufficiently manifest that the â—niversall Church of Christ untill this day and the Westerne or Romane Church for more than a thousand yeares after Christ did minister the Sacrament in both kinds to all the members of Christs Church at least in publicke as it is most evident by innumâ—rable testimonies both of Greâ—ke and Latine Fathers It is true indeed â—hat in case of necessiâ—ie as when children or such as were sicke and weake were to â—eceive the Communion thâ—y used to â—ip the mysticall bread into the consecrated wine under preâ—enâ—e of Caâ—efull avoiding the danger of spilling it and greater reverence toâ—ards the holy Sacrament from this customâ— whâ—â—â— yet was â—islâ—ked as appeares by Hildebeâ—◠〈…〉 some proceedâ—d farther and began to teach the people that seeing the body and blood of Christ cannot be separated in that they partake of the 〈◊〉 they partake of the other also and that therefore it was sufficient to receive in one kind alone Nâ—â—thâ—r yâ—t could this give satisfaction for howsoever the custome of communicating under one kind prevailed yet there wanted not such as sufficiently expressed their judgement that communicating in both kinds as Christ first did institute and the Church for a long time observed was fit and convenient perfect and compleat and of more efficacie and cleerer representation than the other under one kind alone Come to another maine point the proper and propitiatory sacrifice for the quicke and the dead and see whether at Luthers appearing before and after all that used that Liturgy had such an opinion of a sacrifice Saint Ambrose and Saint Chrysostome by way of correction say Wee offer the same sacrifice or rather the remembrance thereof Peter Lombard proposing the question whether that which the Priest doth may properly be named a Sacrifice or Immolation answereth that Christ was only once truely and properly offered in sacrifice and that hâ—e is not properly immolated or sacrifised but in Sacrament and Representation onely Lyra saith that If thou say the Sacrifice of the Altar is daily offered in the Church it must be answered that thâ—re is no reiteration of the sacrifice but a daily commemoration of that sacrifice that was once offered on the Crosse. Georgius Wiâ—elius a man much honoured by the Emperours Ferdinand and Maximilian defines the Masse to be a Sacrifice Rememorative and of prayse and thankesgiving where many give thankes for the price of their Redemption The Author of the Enchiridion of Christian Religion publishâ—d in the provinciall Coâ—ncell of Colen saith In that the Church doth offer the true body and blood of Christ to God the Father it is meerely a representative sacrifice and all that is donâ— is but the commemorating and representing of that sacrifice which was once offered on the Crosse. By that which hath beene said it is cleare that the best and worthiest guides of Gods Church both before and after Luthers time taught not any new reall offering of Christ to God the Father as a propitiatory sacrifice to take away sinnes but in effect as wee doe namely that the sacrifice of the Altar is only the sacrifice of praise and thankesgiving and a meere representation and commemoration of the sacrifice once offered upon the Crosse his being the reall sacrifice on the Crosse ours only the Sacramentall Representation Commemoration and Application thereof so that Christ is not newly offered any otherwise than in that hee is offered in the view of God nor any otherwise sacrifised than in that his sacrifice on the Crosse is commemorated and represented And thus the Fathers terme the holy Eucharist an unbloody Sacrifice not because Christ is properly and in his substance offered therein but because his bloody sacrifice upon the Crosse is by this unbloody commemoration represented called to remembrance and applyed Besides these points mentioned I have already produced witnesses in all ages and in all parts of the world rejecting those bookes as Apâ—cryphall that wee doe and showne that even untill Luthers time the Church did not admit the Canon of Scripture which the Romanists now doe nor ever accounted those bookes canonicall which wee thinke to bee Apocryphall and by these instances it may appeare That all were not Papists who held with the Masse Thâ— thing then we say is this that though the Masse was generally in uâ—e at â—nd bâ—fore Luthers timeâ— yet diverâ— poynts belonging thâ—reunto were not beleeved by tâ—e worthieâ—t guides in God Church at and before Luthers time though indeed there were some in the Chuâ—ch â—hat so coâ—ceived of them as the Romanists now doe and the reason hereof is this They were not generally received by all mâ—n nor as the undâ—ubted determinations of the Church not as Dogmata fidei but Dogmata scholae controverted and diveâ—sly disputed among the learned holden with great libertie of Iudgement by the greatest Doctors as appeares by their owne bookes of controversies written by Bellarmine Suaâ—ez Azorius and others which confute their owne writers almost as much as they doe Proâ—estants Besides had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would have holden them uniformly entirely and constantly as they held the doctrine of the Trinity the Creation the Incarnation of the Sonne of God and other Articles of the Faith Objection If these points
were held as you say not by the best members of the Church but by a domineering faction therein how came it that the prevailing faction suffered others to dissent from them in judgement Answer So long as men yeelded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandall in other things they were suffered to abound in their owne sense so that they submitted themsâ—lves to the obedience of the Church of Rome Besides the Church of Râ—me had not so strictly defined those Tenets in any Councel before as afterwards they did in the Councel of Tâ—ent PA. Our name Catholicke is ancient your Protestant name came not in till after Luther Besides it is a scandalous thing for your Church to derive authoritie from Wickliffâ— Husse Luther and Calvin PRO. Indeed the name Protestant began upon the protâ—sting of the Elector and Laâ—d grave against the Edict howsoever the Faith is ancient though the name bee not and yet if you stand upon names wee are called Christians and into that name were wee Baptized and that is anciâ—nter than your Roman catholicke Now you are called Catholickes but it is with an aliâs or addition Roman-Caâ—holickes as much as to say Particular Vniversall the part is the whole one Citty the woâ—ld and it is your selves that terme you Catholickes Now if one Papist call another so it is but as if one Mule should claw another The Hagarens boldly usurped the name of Sarazens although they were only the brood that sprang from the wombe of Hagar the hand-maid of Sara The Papists by this terme Catholicke worke upon simple people arguing from the one to the other as if all the priviledges of the Catholicke Church belonged to the Romane but we tell them as Optatus did the Donatists who pinned up the Church in a corner of Africke as the Romanists now conâ—ine her to their See that Their Church is Quasi Ecclesia in some sort a Church but not the Catholicke Church but an unsound member thereof We doe not derive our Church from any other than the Primitive Catholicke and Apoâ—tolickâ— Chuâ—ch The Lord is not farre from every â—â—e of us for we are also his off spring Christ Iesus is the top of our kiâ—ne and Religion the stocke Your Pedegre mâ—y be drawne in part from some of the ancient Hereâ—iâ—kes in â—espect of your Invocaâ—ion of Sainâ—s and Angelsâ— you are a kinne at least by the halfe bloud to the Angelici Who as Saint Austâ—ne saith were inclined to the worship of Angels and were from thence as Isidore noteth Called Angelici because they did worship Angelâ— By your Hyperdalâ—a and wâ—â—ship given to the blessed Virgin you shew your selves allied to the Collyridian Hereâ—ikes whom Epiphanius termes Idolaters now thâ—y were called Collyridians from the Collyrides or Cakes which at a certaine time of the yeare they used to offer unto the blessed Virgin sacrificing to her as to the Qâ—eene of heavâ—n By your doctrine of merit and workes of supererogâ—tion you resemble the Pelagians or Catharists Isidore notes it for a propertie of the Catharists or ancient Puritans To glory of their merits Thomas Waldâ—n saith It was a branch of the Pelagian heresie to â—old that according to the measure of meritorious workes God will reward a man so meriâ—ing Now the Rhemists a sprig of this branch mainâ—aine That they doe woâ—ke by their owne freewill and thereby deserve their salvation as also that Good workes are meritorious and the very cause of salvatâ—on so farre that God should be unjust if he rendred not hâ—aven for the same Now concerning the names of Wicklâ—ffe and Husse Luther and Calvin wherewith you pressâ—uâ— you shâ—ll not hereby drive us from holding that with them which thâ—y held of God for though wee rejoyce not in names drawnâ— from men but in the name of Christians into the which we are bapâ—ized yet wee know no great harme by them nor you we thinke set slaunders apaâ—t why we shâ—uld bee ashamed of them more than oâ—r Fathers were of Caecilian of whom the Dâ—natists câ—lled thâ—m Caeciâ—ianists but had they beene as evill almost as their enemies report them from which impâ—tations they are alrâ—aâ—y cleared anâ— theiâ— doctâ—ine â—ixâ— with lâ—â—ven as was the Phâ—risees yet Saint Paul hath tauâ—ht us to acknowledge our selves even Pâ—â—â—iseâ—s iâ— need be not onely Lutherans or Waldensâ—s in that the Pharisees taught a truth of Christian faith to wit the Resurrection of the dead In a word we esteeme of Calvin and Luther and the rest of the first Reformers as worthy men but wee make them not Lords over our faith PA. What thinke you of our fore-fathers that lived and died in the time of Poperie as you call it they were of our Religion PRO. I thinke charitably of them that they might bee saved for many of them were well meaning men and wanting meanes of better instruction they were carried with the sway of the times and as Saint Paul saith 1. Tim. 1.13 Did it ignorantly like those two hundred 2. Sam. 15.11 who in simplicity of heart followed Absalon knowing nothing of his treason and rebellion intended they knew not the depth and mysterie of poperie not their Merit of condignity nor their severall sorts of adoration their Latria Dulia and Hyperdulia Indeed the Scriptures and Church-service were lockt up in an unknowne tongue and yet even in the depth of Poperie as appeares by a Councell held at Clyffe and also by a Provinciall Constitution of Iohn Peckam Arch-bishop of Canterbury The Priests were enjoyned to teach the people the heads of Christian faith and Religion and namely to expound unto them the Creed the ten Commandements and the Sacraments and that vulgariter that is as the Glosse there saith in the vulgar and mother tongue to wit in English to the native English and in French to the French-borne so that even in those daâ—ker times there was a measure of explicite faith required at the hands of Lay-people and they were to be trained up in the knowledge of those Credendorum so farre as the Letter of the Creed might leade them and Faciendorum such as the Decalogue appointed them and Petendorum comprised in the Lords prayer and Recipiendorum tendred in the Sacraments It is Lyrae's conceit that when Saint Paul saith 1. Cor. 14.19 Hee had ratâ—er in the Church speake five words with his undeâ—standing then ten thousand in a strange tongue that those five words were those Agenda and Credenda which concerne our faith and manners as also those Vitanda Timenda and Speranda which the Pastors were to declare unto the people Besides there were divers parcels of the Creed concerning Christ and namely touching his Incarnation Passion his Resurrection and Ascension that were wont to be represented to their memories and meditations in the severall Festivities and Holy-dayes which the Church solemnized Besides wee hope the better for that they erred in points of
Church holding that shee was a pure Virgin both before the birth of Christ and that shee also continued a Virgin all her life after condemned Helvidius for an Heretike now why were the Helvidians adjudged Heretikes surely because they beleeved more than was reveled in the word and would have thrust that on the Church for an Article of faith which had no ground at all And this is your case you over-â—each in your beliefe as the Helvidian Heretikes did witnesse your tenets of Transubstantiation adoration of Images Invocation of Saints Purgatory the Popes supremacie and the like wherein your faith is monstrous like the Gâ—ant of Gath who had on every hand sixe fingers and on every foote sixe toes and so it is with you who in the new Creed of Pope Pius the fourth have shuffled in more Articles of faith than ever God and his Catholike Church made Neither doe wee fall short in our beliefe for wee measure our faith by the standard and rule of Gods written wordâ— now since it jumpeth with the rule it neither faileth in defect nor over-reacheth in excesse Now by this time I hope I have performed the taske which I undertooke PA. You have indeed given in a Catalogue of visible Professors in some part of Christendome but what is this to the whole universall Church PRO. Very much for these particular congregations serve to make up the whole state of Christ his Church militant here on earth now this Church farre and wide dispersed hath in her particular members for substance of doctrine taught as wee doe To begin with the Easterne Church amongst the Grecians and Armenians The Grecians held that the Romane Church had not any Supremacie of Iurisdiction authoritie and grace above or over all other Churches They celebrated the Sacrament of the Eucharist in both kinds as we doe They denied that there was any Purgatorie fire They denied Extreame unction to bee a Sacrament properly so called They reject the Religious use of Massie Images or Statues admitting yet Pictures or plaine Images in their Churches The Armenians denie the true body of Christ to be really in the Sacrament of the Eucharist under the Species of Bread and Wine They denie the vertue of conferring grace to belong to the Sacraments Ex Opere operato They denie the Popes Supremacie and are subject to two of their owne Patriarches whom they call Catholicks They reject Purgatorie They have their publicke Service in their vulgar language The North-east Church amongst the Russians and Muscovites as they were converted to Christianitie by the Grecians so have they ever since continued of the Greeke Communion and Religion They have their divine Service in their owne vulgar language They reject Purgatorie They communicate in both kinds They denie the spirituall efficacie of Extreame unction To proceede now to the South-Church amongst the Habassines or mid land Aethiopians the Character of their Religion is this as I find it in Maâ—hew Dresser who reports it from Francis Alvarez a Portugal Priest and sometimes Legat into Aethiopia They communicate in both kinds They use no Extreame unction They reverence the Saints but they pray not unto them they doe much honour the mother of Christ but they neither adore her nor crave her mediation They have their Liturgie or Church Service in their owne vulgar language They have a Patriarcke of their owne who is confirmed and consecrated by the Patriarcke of Alexandria on which See they depend and not on the Romane In the Westerne Church we have the consent of the Waldenses in France the Wicklevists in England commonly called Lollards and Thaborites in Bohemia Here be then the Greeke and Latine Church the Churches in the the East West North and South all of them teaching for substance of doctrine as we doe I know indeed that Bellarmine sleighteth these Churches of Graecia Armenia Russia and Aethiopia saying We are no more moved with their examples than with the examples of Lutherans and Calvinists for they bee either Hereticks or Schismaticks So that all Churches be they never so Catholicke and ancient if they subscribe not to the now Romanâ— Faith are either Schismaticall or Hâ—reticall But we may not be so uncharitable to these afflicted Churches For as learned Bishop Vsher saith if wee should take a survey of these Churches and put by the points wherein they did differ one from another and gather into one body the rest of the Articles wherein they all did generally agree we should find that in those propositions which without all controveâ—sie are universally â—eceived in the whole Christian world so much truth is conâ—eined as being joyned with holy obedience may be sufficient to bring a man unto everlasting salvation Object I except against the Greeke Church for that it denieth the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son of God Answer Every errour denieth not Christ the foundation Indeed it would have grated the foundation if they had so denied the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Sonne as that they had made an inequalitie betweene the Persons but since their forme of speech is that the Holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father by the Sonne and is the spirit of the Sonne and since as the Master of the Sentences saith Non est aliud It is not another thing to say the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Father and the Sonne then that he is or proceeds from the Father and the Sonne in this they seeme to agree with us In eandem fidei sententiam upon the same sentence of Faith though they differ in words Since I say they thus expresse themselves they may continue to bee a true Church though erronious in the point mentioned In like sort Scotus following his Master Lombard saith that The difference betweene the Greekes and the Latines in this point is rather Verball in the manner of speech than Reall and materiall Besides it seemes by the same Scotus that the Greeks held no other Heresie then Saint Basil and Gregory Nazianzene held whom yet no man durst ever yet call Hereticks so that you must give us the famous Greeke Church againe PA. I have yet divers exceptions to take at your Catalogue as also at your English Martyrologie for you have named out of Foxe some for Martyrs who were very meane persons namely Iohn Claydon a Curriar of Leather Richard Howden a Wooll-winder as also some by name Thomas Bagley for a Martyr who was a married Priest PRO. What though some of them were tradesmen did not Peter stay divers daies in Ioppa with one Simon a Tanner Act. 9.43 Was not that godly convert Lydia a seller of Purple Act. 16.14 Hath not God chosen the base things of the world to confound the mighty 1 Cor. 1.27 c. Besides they were no such base people for among others I produced
and differed from you so that they cannot belong to the same Church PRO. Concerning Wickliffâ— Husse and the rest if they have any of them borne record to the truth and resisted any innovation of corrupt Teachers in their times even to blood they are justly to be termed Martyrs yea albeit they saw not all corruptions but in some were themselves carried away with the streame of error Else if because they erred in some things they be no Martyrs or because we dissent from them in some things we are not of the same Church both you and we must quit all claime to Saint Cyprian Iustin Martyr and many more whom we count our ancients and predecessors and bereave them also of the honour of martyrdome which so long they have enjoyed Irenaus and Iustin Martyr held the error of the Millenaries Cyprian many others held Rebaptization necessary for such as were baptized by heretikes S Austin and the greatest part of the Church for sixe hundred yeares held a necessitie of the Eucharist to Infants and in other things differed one from another and from the Church in the aftertimes correcting their errors yet because they all entirely and stedfâ—stly held all the necessary fundamentall principles which these errors did not infringe neither held they these errors obstinatly but only for want of better information they were of the same Church and Religion whereof we are S. Austin saith There be some things in which the most Learned and best Defenders of the Catholike Rule the bond of faith preserved do sometimes not agree among themselves and one in some one thing saith righter than anoher Now if the different opinions of the Fathers in some points hindred not their union in substance of the faith and their being members all of the same Church why should the like or lesser differences now among the Protestants hinder their union in substance of the same faith and their being members all of the same Chuch both among themselves and with the Fathers yea but Wickliffe and Husse with others mentioned in our Catalogue they erred in point of faith it is true but yet their error was not joyned with pertinacy they errâ—d not incorrigibly buâ— for want of better information they erred in that doctrine of faith wherein the truth was not fully scanned declared and confirmed by a Plenary Councell as S. Austin speaketh had it beene we may well thinke the very same of all those holy men which Austin most charitably saith of Saint Cyprian Without doubt they would have yeelded to the truth being manifested unto them by the authority of the whole Church Object We are at vnity but your Protestants are at ods and namely your Lutherans and Calvinists in the point of the Sacrament the one holding Consubstantiation and the other opposing it Answer The Protestants especially we of the Church of England are at unity as appeares by the Harmony of our confessions as also by our joynt subscriptions to the Articles of Râ—ligion established And for the point mentioned the difference is nothing so great as you would have it thought for as the moâ—t learned and judicious Zanchius observeth and our Doctor Field out of him In all necessary points both the parties agree and dissent in one unnecessary which by right understanding one another might easily be compounded Both sides saith Zanchius doe agree that the elements of bread and wine are not abolished in their substance but onely changed in their use which is not onely to signifie but also to exhibit and communicate unto us the very body and blood of Christ with all the gracious working and fruits thereof Both parties agree that the very body and blood of Christ are truely present in the Sacrament and by the faithfull truely and really received Thus farre all parties agree that is in the whole necessary and sufficient substance of the doctrine of this Sacrament for the other matter wherein they differ de modo of the manner how Christ is present in the Sacrament seeing it is not expressed in the Scriptures in the judgement of Zanchius it might well be omitted and they themselves confesse when they have gone as farre as they can to determine it still it is ineffable and not possible to be fully understood It is enough for us saith the same Zanchius to beleeve the body and blood are there though how and in what manner wee cannot define So then in this maine controversie betweene them about Consubstantiation which as Zanchius saith did afterwards occasion that other of ubiquity in both these controversies the main truth on both sides is out of controversie that Christ is really truly exhibited to each faithfull Communicant and that in his whole person he is every where the doubt is onely in the manner how he is in the Symbols and how in heaven and earth Now for other ods amongst us they be but in Ceremonies or at worst in points of no absolute consequence whereas the differences amongst Papists concerne the life of Religion They differ concerning the Supreame authoritie of the Church whether it be in the Pope or in the Generall Councel The Councels of Constance and Basil determined that a Generall Councel was above the Pope the Councel of Florence decreed the Pope to be above a Generall Councel They differ concerning the manner of the conception of the Virgin Mary The Dominican Friers following the Thomists hold that she was conceived in Originall sinne the Franciscans hold the contrary The moderne Popes disâ—gree with the ancient concerning the dignitie of universall Bishop adoration of Images Transubstantiation Communion in both kinds and the Merit of good workes as is already showne in the fifth and seaventh Centurie of this treatise So cleere is it that some doctrines of the later Roman Church were opposed by the ancient Roman Bishops thâ—mselves to wit adoration of Images as also the dignity and title of universal Bishop by Gregorie the Great coÌ„munion in one kind â— as also the merit of good works by Leo the first TransubstantiatioÌ„ by Gelasius the first Besides the Iesuits and Dominicans differ at this day concerning the weighty point of Free-will and Grace The truth is the Popish Faith varieth not onely with their persons but according to time and place so that they can exchange their tenets upon occasion advance or cry downe their opinions at their pleasure as may best serve for their advantage For as Azorius the Iesuit saith It falls out often that that which was not the common opinion a few yeares since now is And that which is the common opinion of Divines in one Country is not so in another As in Spaine and Italy it is the common opinion that Latreia or divine worship is due to the Crosse which in France and Germaâ—y is not so but some inferior kind of worship due thereunto And Navarrus the Casuist sayes
That at Rome no man may say that the Councel is above the Pope nor at Paris that the Pope is above the Councel In a word the Papists are at great odds but they cunningly conceale them insomuch as it is observed that some of them would say to their friends in privat Thus or thus I would say in the schooles and openly Sed maneat inâ—er nos diversum sentio but keepe my counsel I thinke the contrarie PA. We may haply be at ods in some Scholasticke points but not in matters defined by the Pope and a Generall Councel PRO. You would have us beleeve that at the sound of the Popâ—s sentence like frogs in a marish at the falling in of a great log or stone you are all hushed and silenced but it is not so for since the Trent decrees were published divers of your side are divided about the sense thereof iâ—somuch as they differ in the maine points thereof which in your account are fundamental and the deniers therof reputed Hereticks This may appeare by these instances The Pope in the Councels of Trent and Florence decreed the Apocrypha to bee Canonicall Scripture yet since that decree Driedo and Sixtus Senensis have called them in question and rejected them The Pope in the last Councelâ— is decreed to be above a Councel and yet since that time Alphonsus à Castro hath writ the contrarie The Trent Councel teacheth Sess. 6. Iustification by Inherent righteousnes condemning those that beleeve the imputation of Christs Righteousnesse and yet Albertus Pighius defendeth imputed â—ighteousnesse so doth Cardinal Contaren in his treatise of Iustification Again the Pope decreed against the certainty of grace salvation defining Sess. 6. that no man should beleeve these things of himselfe yet Catharinus defended the contrary holding that a man might have the certainty of Faith touching these thingsâ— and when the Trent Councels authority was objected against him he eluded it by divers sleight distinctions The truth is the Papists have a kind of unitie to wit a superstitious and hypocriticall crouching to the popes chayreâ— for so long as they agree to go to mass swear to the popes supremacy other things are tollerated although they coÌ„sent like harp harrow And surely were it not for the great profit and riches which knit the parts of this body together like twinnes that have different heads but tied together by the belly we should see this great body of the papacy would soon be divided scattered and dispersed Howsoever for any differences amongst the Protestants we may thankefully acknowledge that it was the wonderfull Providence of God that so many severall Countries Kingdomes and States abandoning the abuses of the Church or rather Court of Rome and making particular reformation in their owne dominions without generall meetings and consents should have no more nor greater differences than are found amongst them Object It is usuall with you in your Catalogue to say such and such as namely S. Bernard or the like taught for substance as you doe agreeing only with you in some fundamentall points but this will not serve to make them members of your Church for by the like reason the Quartadecimanes Novatians Donatists and Pelagians might pretend to the Catholike Church in as much as they agreed therewith in some fundamentall truths Answer 1 Agreement in one or more fundamentals maketh not a man a Catholike Christian tho disagreement in any one fundamentall joyned with obstinacie makes a man an Heretike 2 To make a man actually a member of the true Church more is required than agreement in the profession of the same fundamentall points of faith for not only heresie but schisme also excludeth a man from Communion with the true Catholike Church 3 Fundamentall points as well conceâ—ne life and manners as faith and he that impugneth the doctrine of the Decalogue is as well an Heretike as he that impugneth the doctrine of the Creed Nicholas directly impugned the one and by evident consequence the other by maintaining his impure communion or rather community of wives 4 The Quarta decimanes who kept Easter on the fourteenth day precisely were of two sorts Some as Polycrates and other Bishops of Asia kept it so meerely in imitation of S. Iohn the Evangelist and those were never condemned for Heretikes Others kept the fourteenth day by vertue of the Mosaicall Law and these by consequent destroyed the foundation as those did among the Galathians who urged Circumcision to whom S. Paul there professeth That Christ should not profit them and that they were fallen from grace 5 Novatians erred in a fundamentall point concerning Repentance and by consequent overthrew that Article of the Creed Credo remissionem peccatorum 6 The Donatists were rather Schismatikes than Heretikes and rather made a rent in the Church then were excluded from it Saint Austin in his seventh tome every where calleth it Schisma Donati in the end they grew to bee heretikes and denied in effect that fundamentall Article Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam 7 The Pelagians erred in divers fundamentall points concerning originall sinnâ— and the necessity of Grace For farther answer we say that the Authors we produce against the Romanists are of two sorts 1 Some we alleadge onely as Testes veritatis in such or such a point or points of faith 2 Others wee produce as members of our reformed Church and fore-runners of Luther Of the first sort is Bernard very orthodoxe in all points against the Pelagians but otherwise tainted and an open enemy to the Albigenses Of the second sort are the Waldenses Wicklifists and Hussites who as appeares by their confessions of faith extant in Orthuinus Gratius and the History of the Waldenses agree with uâ— in all Fundamentals not onely in some as the Heretikes above mentioned agreed with the Church Objection What though Saint Hierome Bernard and others agree with you in some generall truths men of contrarie religions may have divers materials of doctrine common to both now this is but a genericall agreement which is no more than the agreement betweene a man and a beast Answer 1 Saint Hierome and Bernard are not well rancked together Saint Hierome was a through Papist in no point Bernard was in some living in a corrupt age seaven hundred yeeres after Saint Hierome 2 Besides we answer that Waldo Wickliffe and Husse with others agree with us not onely Generically in the common grounds of Christianitie but Specifically in those formall points which we hold at this day against the Romane Church and as for such calumnies as are cast upon them they are already confuted in this treatise neither will any indifferent person regard them for when once that infamous name of Hereticke was fastned upon a man nothing was too heavie for such an one any thing was beleeved of that man and from thence it is without question that we find so many so absurd so senselesse opinions imputed to them
â—he private Masses and some also must be attributed to the very change of time it selfe as publicke prayers in an unknowne tongue in Italy France and Spaine for there a long time the Latine was commonly understood of all but when afterwards by the invasion of those barbarous nations the Goths and Vandals their speeches degenerated into those vulgar tongues that are now used there then the language not of the Service but of the people was altered so that upon the fall of the Empire learning began to decay and the publicke Service no longer to be understood by reason of the change of the vulgar tongues Lastly wee are able to show as appeares by the eighth Centurie of this treatise when and by whom corruption of doctrine hath beene brought in and how opposition hath beene made from time to time in case of the adversaries violent intrusion for instance sake for the space of sixe hundred yeares and more next after Christ the Catholicke doctrine of the Church of Rome was this that Images were not to be adored and this is witnessed by Gregorie the Great who allowed no use of Images but onely Historical for so he saith They are not set up to be worshipped but onely to instruct the people that be ignorant yea he speakes positively that The worshipping of Images is by all meanes to bee avoided Now this doctrine maintained by Gregorie the first was changed by Gregorie the second and third Adrian the first and second so that here we have taken them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the manner to wit with doctrine novel and differing from their Ancestors and therefore need no farther examination But that the Reader may trace them along we find that this Innovation was resisted by three hundred thirtie eight Bishops at Constantinople in the yeare 754 and though afterwards it got strength at Nice was defended by Rome and at last got to bee a part of the Roman Faith yet was the same disliked denied opposed and resisted by all the good men that lived in that and aftertimes as Charles the Great the councel of Franckford Lewis his sonne the Synod of Paris Alcuinus and the Church of England PA. Will you charge our Religion with novelty can that bee called new which is of so long continuance PRO. Divers points of your Religion are confessed novelties your owne men yeeld that for Above a thousand yeares after Christ the Popes judgement was not esteemed infallible nor his authority above that of a Generall Councell the contrary being decreed in the late Councels of Constance and Basil that Not any one ancient Writer reckons precisely seven Sacraments the first Author that mentioneth that number being Peter Lombard and the first Councell that of Florence that in former ages for thirteene hundred yeares The holy Cup was administred to the Laity that divine service was celebrated for many ages in a knowne and vulgar language understood by the people that Transubstantiation was neither named nor made an Article of faith before the Councell of Lateran which was above twelve hundred yeares after Christ besides many more confessions of this kind which might bee produced Now that a thing may be novell though of long duration may appeare by this our Saviour when he would declare Pharisaicall Traditions to be Novelties did not respect their long continuance in the corrupt estate of the Church but saith Math. 19.8 Ab initio non fuit sic that they were not from the beginning delivered by God or practised by the Church so that if the duration and antiquity of your opinions be but humane that is not Apostolicall neither from Apostolicall grounds they may according to Tertullian be esteemed new and novelties for a point is new in Religion that did not proceed from God and his blessed spirit either interminâ—s or by deduction from his word that is the Ancient of dayes whatsoever pretences of duration and continuance may be supposed It remaineth then that that is new in Religion which is not most ancient so that if you cannot derive your Religion further then from some of the Fathers the tradition whereupon it is builded is then but humane and so a new thing even Noveltie it selfe And therefore Tertullian telleth us That is most true which is most ancient that most ancient which was from the beginning that from the beginning which was from the Apostles as if there were no truth in faith that was not from the beginning If Christ was alwayes and before all truth is a thing equally ancient and from all eternitie saith the same Father and therefore whatsoever savorâ—th against the truth this saith he is Heresie thoâ—gh it be of long continuance for there is no prescription of time that will hold plea against the Ancient of dayes and his truth I know that Pamelius in his notes upon Tertullian would ward off these testimonies by saying that Tertullian spoke thus When hee began to fall into the fancie of Montanus but be it so yet hee delivered some truths after hee lapsed into Montanisme besides Bellarmine for proofe of Monasticall vowes and veiling of Nunnes alleadgeth divers places out of the same treatise of Tertullians de Virginibus velandis of veiling of virgins and then belike Tertullian was no Montanist when Bellarmine for his advantage alleadged him PA. Our Religion Mr. Brerely is that good seed which Christ the good husbandman first sowed in his field Math. 13.24 yours is like the Tares which the enemy afterwards came and sowed among the wheate PRO. A great part of your Religion specially that which is controverted betwixt you and us and namely your Trent additionals and Traditionals was not sowne by the good husbandmen Christ and his Apostles but by the envious man by the craft of the man of sinne and his complices the sinnes of Christian men so requiring for as it is already observed erroneous doctrine it may be antiqua ancient but it cannot be prima that one truth and faith Ephes. 4.5 Which was once delivered to the Saints as S. Inde speakes and therefore is Christ the Husbandman first presented in the Parable as Seminans sowing good seed in his field before the Enemy is produced Reseminans resowing the same Acres with unprofitable graine Besides Religion is one thing and Reformation another the one presupposeth the other our reformation is of a later date our Religion is the old Religion coevall with the Primitive and Apostolike howsoever you taxe us with noveltie But the Disciple is not above his Master the Iewes could say to our Saviour What new doctrine is this and the Grecians to S. Paul May we not know what this new doctrine whereof thou speakest is but wee say in our just defence it is not wee that affâ—ct noveltie but it is you that counterfeit the face of Antiquity as the Gibeonites dealt with Ioshua deceiving him