Selected quad for the lemma: faith_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
faith_n	church_n	point_n	unity_n	4,232	5	9.7001	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16571	All the examinacions of the constante martir of God M. Iohn Bradforde before the Lorde Chauncellour, B. of Winchester the B. of London, [and] other co[m]missioners: whervnto ar annexed, his priuate talk [and] conflictes in prison after his condemnacion, with the Archbishop of york, the B. of Chichester, Alfonsus, and King Philips confessour, two Spanishe freers, and sundry others. With his modest learned and godly answeres. Anno. Domini 1561	Bradford, John, 1510?-1555.	1561 (1561)	STC 3477; ESTC S116578	60,488	240

a presence I semeth quoth my Lorde of Chichester that you haue not red Chrysostome for he poīteth it Of truth my lord quoth I hitherto I haue ben kepte well ynough withoute bokes howbeit this I remember of Chrisostome that he lyeth vppon the altar as the Seraphins do touch our lips with y e coules of the altar in heauen whiche is an Hiperbolicall locucion as you knowe Chrisostome floweth with them It is to euident quoth my lord of yorke that you are gon to farre but let vs come againe to y e churche out of the whiche you are excommunicated I am not quoth I my lord Although they whiche seme to be in the churche and of the churche haue excommuninicate me as the pore blind man was Ihon .9 I hope Christ receueth me you deceaue your selfe ꝙ he and here muche was spoken of excommunicacion At the laste I said my Lorde I pray you beare with me that whiche I shall simplye speake before you Assuredly quoth I as I thinck you did well to departe from the Romishe churche so I thincke you haue done wickedly to couple vs to it againe for you can neuer proue it which you make the mother Churche to be christes churche Oh maister Bradford quoth my lorde of Chichester you were but a childe when this matter began I was a yonge man then cōming from the vniuersitie went with the woorlde but I tell you it was alwaies agaīst my stomack ▪ I was but a child then quoth I ▪ how be it as I told you I thincke you haue done euill for nowe we are come to the wicked mā which sitteth in the Temple of god ▪ that is in the churche for it cannot be vnderstād of the Mahumet or any out of the churche but of suche as beare rule in the church ▪ See quoth my lord of yorke howe you builde your faith vpō such places of scripture as are moste obscure to deceaue your selfe as thoughe you were in the church where you are not Well my lorde quoth I thoughe I might by your frutes iudge of you and others yet will not I vtterly condempne you for euer oute of the churche for perchaunce you sinne of ignoraunce ▪ if I were in your case I thincke not quoth I that I should not cōdēpne him vtterly y t is of my faith in the Sacrament knowinge as you know that at y e least .viii. C. yeres after Christs as my lord of Durisme writteth It was free to beleue or not to beleue transubstātiatiō This is a toye quoth he that you haue found out of your owne brayne as thoughe a man not beleuing as the churche doth That is transubstantiacion were of the Churche he is an hereticke and so none of the churche quoth my lord of Chichester that dothe hold any doctrine againste the definition of the Churche as nowe you do hold against transubstan●●atiō And he brought furth Ciprian whiche was no Hereticke thoughe he beleued rebaptizinge of them whiche were baptized of heretickes bicause he held it before the churche had defined it where as if he had holden it after then had he ben an hereticke Oh my lord quod I wil you condempne to the deuil any man that beleueth truely the .12 article of y e faith wherein I take the vnitie of Christes churche to consiste al thoughe in some pointes he beleue not the definitions of that whiche you cal the churche If I shall speake to you franckelye I doubte not but he y t holdeth syncerlye the articles of oure belefe thought in other thinges he dissent from your definitions yet he shalbe saued yea quod they both this is your doctrine No quoth I it is Paule whiche saith that if they hold the foundacion Christe thoughe they build vppon hym Hey strawe and stouble yet they shalbe saued Lord god quoth my lord of yorke howe you delite to leyne to so hard and darke places of scripture yea quoth my Lord of Chichester I will shewe you howe that Luther doth excommunicate zwinglius for this matter so red a place of Luther making for his purpose My lord quoth I what Luther writteth as you muche passe not of so do I in this case my faith is not build of Luther zwinglius or Ecolampadius in this point And in dede to tel you truelye I neuer red anye of their woorkes in this matter As for their persons what so euer theire sayinges were yet doo I thincke assuredly that they were and are gods children and sainctes with him Wel quoth my lord of yorke you are out of the cōmunion of y e church I am not quoth I. For it cōsisteth is in faith Loo quoth he howe you make your churche inuisible that would haue the comunion of it to consiste in faithe yea and like your grace quoth I for to haue cōmuniō with y e churche neadeth not visiblenesse of it cōmunion consisteth as I said in faith and not in exforior ceremonies as appeareth both by Paule whiche woulde haue Vnam fidem by Ireneus to Victor for y e obseruaciō of Ester saing that Dissonantiam ieiunii should not Rumpere consonantiam fide That same place quoth my lord of chichester hath often euen wounded my cōscience because we disceuered our selfes frō the Sea of Rome Wel quoth I God forgeue you for I thincke you haue done euyll to bringe England thyther againe your honors know I am plain therfore I beseche you beare with me Here my Lord of yorke toke a boke of paper of common places out of his bosome and red a peice of Saint Augustine Contra Epistolam fundamenti howe that there were many thinges that did hold saint Augustine in the bosome of the church consent of people and natiōs aucthoritie cōfirmed with miracles nourished with hope increased wyth charitie established with ātiquitie Besides this there holdethe me in the churche saith saint Augustine stil the successions of priestes from Peters seate vntil this present Bishoppe Last of all the verye name of Catholicke doctrine dothe holde me Loo quoth he howe saye you to this of Saint Augustine point● me oute your churche thus My Lord quoth I this of saint Augustine maketh as muche for me as for you althoughe I might aunswere that al these if they had ben alledged to bee so firme as you make them they might haue ben alledged againste Christ and his Apostles for ther was the lawe and ceremonies consented in by the people confirmed with miracles antiquitie and continual succession of byshoppes frō Aarons tyme vntil that present In good faith quod my lord of Chichester maister Bradford you marke to muche the state of the churche before Christs comming Sir quod I therein I do but as Peter teacheth .2 Pet. 2. and Paule verye oftē you would gladly haue your church heare verye glorious and as a most pleasante Ladie but as a moste pleasante ladye but as Christes saith Beatus est quicunque non fuerit offensus per me so maye his churche saye blessed

writtynge his aunsweres he began to tell me how what he had done for Grymbolde howe that I neade not to feare anye reproche or slander I shoulde sustaine belike meanīg to haue me secretly to haue come to them as Grymbold dyd for he subscribed And therefore I speake on this sorte vnto hym Maister Deane quod I I wold gladly that you should not conceaue of me that I passe of shame of men simplye in this matter I rather would haue you to thincke of me as the verye truth is that hitherto as I haue seene nor heard nothinge to infirme my faith againste transubstātiaciō so I am no lesse setled in it then I was at my comminge hyther I loue quod I to be plaine with you to tell you at the first that you shall finde at the last In good fayth Maister Bradforde quod he I loue you the better for your plainnesse do not thincke otherwise of me quod he but that you shall find me plaine in al my talke with you Here he began to aske me of my imprisonment and condempnacion So I began told hym how I had ben hādled wheare at the semed to wounder yea in playne wordes he saide I had ben handled otherwise then I had gyuen cause so showed me howe that my Lorde of Bath reported that I had deserued a benefite at the Queenes hande and at all the Counsels In this kind of talke we spent an houre almost and so as one wery I did arise vp ▪ and he called in the keper and before hym bad me be of good comforte and to bee out of all peril of death Mary sir quoth the keper but it is in euery mās mouth that hee shal dye to morowe Whereat he semed some thyng halfe amased and sayde hee woulde goe before euensong before the Queene and speake to her on my behalfe And I thynke the Queene hadde almoste supped at that presente for it was paste sixe of the clocke Before the keper I tolde hym againe that styll I was the same manne I was at the firste and til I should see matter to touch conscience to the contrary must nedes so continewe The keper desyred me to hearken to mayster Doctours counsayle and prayed M. Doctor to bee good vnto me And so after we hade dronke together maister Doctor with most gentle woordes tooke his leaue for three dayes Nowe when he was gone the keper tolde me how that mayster Doctor spake opēly how that he sawe no cause why thei should burne me Whiche sentence for the ambiguitie of the meaning made me sorye leste I had behaued my selfe in any thinge wherin he gathered anye conformablenesse to them in their doctrine which god knoweth I neuer as yet dyd so God oure father blesse vs as hys chyldren for euer and keepe vs from all euyll for euer Amen Vpon the fifth daye of Apryll came maister Doctor Westō to the coūter aboute .2 of the clocke in the after noone who excused hymselfe for beyng so long absent partely by sickenes partely for that Doctor Pendleton tolde hym that hee woulde come vnto me and partely for that quoth he I withstoode certaine Monckes which would haue come agayne into Westminster After whiche talke he told me howe that the Pope was dead and then he tolde me how he had spoken to the Queene for me and how that death was not nere vnto me Laste of all he excused himselfe for not aunswering myne argumentes against transubstanciacion because my commynge to daye quoth he was more by fortune then of purpose I woulde gladlye quoth I omittyng all other talkes haue seen an aunswer to my argumentes Why quoth he you haue remembered some thynge what I spake to you whē I was last with you No sir quoth I I neuer called them in maner to mynde sythen that tyme as well because I hoped you would haue writtē them as also for that they semed not to bee so materiall In good faith ꝙ he I cannot see any other or better waye for you then for to submit youre self to the iudgement of the Churche ▪ Marye so I wyll sir quoth I yf so be by the churche you vnderstand Christes church Lo quoth he you take vpon you to iudge the church No sir quoth I that doe I not in takyng vpon me to discerne I do not iudge the church yes that you do quoth he and make inuisible I dooe neyther quoth I. Why sayth he who can see youre churche Those sir quoth I that haue spiritual eyes wherewith they mighte haue dyscerned Christes visible conuersacion heare vpō earth Nay quoth he Christes churche hath thre tokens that all men may looke well vpon namely vnitie antiquitye and consent These thre quoth I may be as well in euil as in good as well in synne as in vertue as well in the deuyls churche as in Gods churche As for ensaumple quoth I Idolatrie amongest the Israelites had al those thre Chrisostome telleth plainly as you wel knowe saide I that the church is well knowen Tantummodo per scripturas alonely bi the scriptures In good faithe ꝙ hee you make your churche inuisible when you wyll haue it knowen alonelye by the scriptures No sir quoth I the scriptures dooe playnely set furth to vs the churche that all menne maye well ynough thereby know her yf thei list to loke The church ꝙ hee is like a Towre or towne vppon a Hyll that al men may se True sir quoth I al men that be not blynde Visible ynough is the churche but menues blindnes is great Impute not therefore to the churche that whiche is to bee imputed to mens blindenes Where quoth he was your church forty yeares agoe or where is it nowe excepte in a corner of Germanye Forsooth sir quoth I the churche of Christ is dispersed and not tied to this or that place but to y e word of god so that where it is there is Gods churche yf it bee truelye taught Loe ꝙ hee is not thys to make the church inuisible Poi●n me out a realme a hundreth yeres paste whiche mayntayned youre doctryne Syr quoth I yf you wyl or woulde well marke the state of the church before Christes commynge with it now as saint Paule and Peter wylleth vs I thynke you woulde not looke for suche shewes of the churche to be made as to poynte it oute by realmes You knowe quoth I that in Helyas time both in Israel and els where Gods churche was not poyntable and therefore cryed he oute that he was lefte alone No marye quoth he dyd not God say that there was .7000 whyche hadde not bowed theyr knees to Baale Loe sayeth he 7000. shewe me seuen thousande a hundreth yeares agoo of your religion Syr quoth I these .7000 were not knowen to men for then Helias woulde not haue sayde that hee hadde bene before left alone And thys is playne ynough by that whiche the texte hathe namelye that God sayeth Reliqui I haue reserued to me .7000 Marke that it sayeth God had reserued to hym selfe to hys own knowledge as I doubt not but the hundreth yeares agoe God hadde hys 7000. in hys proper places thoughe menne knewe not thereof Well maister Bradforde sayeth hee I wyll not make youre case woorse then for transubstanciacion all thoughe I knowe that we agree not in Other matters And I praye you quoth he make you it youre selfe not woorse If I canne dooe you good I wyll hurte you I wyll not I am no Prynce and therefore I cannot promyse lyfe excepte you wyll submytte youre self to the diffinicion of y e church Syr quoth I so that you wyll defyne me your churche that vnder it you brynge not in a false churche you shall not see but that we shal soune bee at a poynt In good fayth maister Bradford quoth hee I see no good wyl be doone and therefore I wyl wishe you as muche good as I can and hereafter I will perchaunce come or sende to you agayne and so he sent for maister Weale and departed Nowe after his departynge commeth the keper maister Claydon and Stephen Beiche and they were verye hotte with me and spake vnto me in suche sorte that I should not loke but to haue thē vtter enemies vnto me notwithstandyyng the frendeshippe they both haue hitherto pretended God bee wyth vs what matter is it who bee agaynste vs. Finis ¶ Imprinted at London in Fleetstrete at the Signe of y e Faucon by William Griffith and are to be sold at the litle shop in saincte Dunstones churchyard Anno .1561 The .xiii. daie of Maye Cori. 10. Mat. 10 Mat. 7. Mat. ● Mat ● Ioh. 5. Luk. 23 1. Io. Virgi● A prayer ●f M. ●rad●ords 2. Pet. ●

how I was certain of saluaciō of my religion Marie quod I amittinge all formalities saue y t I thācked thē for their good wil by the word of god by the scriptures I am certein of saluacion and of my religion Verye wel said quod my Lord of yorke But howe doo you knowe the worde of God and the scriptures but by the church In dede my Lorde quoth I the churche was and is a meane to bring a mā more spedely to know the scriptures and the woorde of God as was the woman of Samaria was a meane y t the Samaritains knew Christ but as when they had herd hym speake they said now we know y t he is Christ not bycause of the woordes but bycause we our selfes haue heard hym so quoth I after we come to the hearing and reading of the scriptures showed to vs and discerned by the church we doo beleue them and know them not by cause the church saith they are the scriptures but bicause they be so beinge therof assured by the same spirite whiche wrote and spake them ▪ yea quoth my lord of yorke but you know in the Apostles time at the firste the word was not written True quoth I if you meane it for some bokes of the bokes of the newe Testamēt but els for the olde testament Peter telleth vs that we haue Firmiorem sermonem Propheticum a more sure worde of prophecie Not quod I that it is simplie so but in respecte of the Apostles persons whiche beinge a liue and compassed with infirmitie attributed to the worde written more firmitie as wherewith no faulte coulde be founde whereas for the infyrmitye of their ꝑsons men perchaūce might haue founde some faulte at there perchīng Albeit in verie dede no lesse obedience faith ought to haue ben giuen to the one then to the other as being all of one spirite of truth That place of Peter quoth my Lorde of yorke is not so to be vnderstande of the worde of God written yes sir quoth I that it is and of none other yea in dede quoth my lord of Chichester maister Bradford doth tel you y e truth in that pointe Well quoth my Lorde of yorke you knowe that Ireneus and others do magnify much the churche and alledge the Churche againste heretickes and not the scriptures True quoth I for they had to do with suche heretickes as dyd denye the scriptures and yet dyd magnifie the Apostles that they were inforsed to vse those churches wherin the Apostles had taught and that churche stil had receiued the same doctrine you speake the verie truethe quoth my Lorde of Chichester for the heretickes did refuse all scriptures excepte it were a peice of Lukes gospell Then quoth I the alledginge of the churche can not be primarlye or principallye vsed againste me whiche am so farre from denyinge of the scriptures that I appele vnto them vtterlye as to the onelye iudge Io .xii. A pretye matter quoth my Lorde of yorke that you will take vppon you to iudge the Churche I praye you where was your ●hurche this manye yeres for the Churche of Chryste is Catholicke and visible Hytherto my Lorde quoth I I doo not iudge the churche when I discerne it from that congregacion those whiche be not in it And I neuer denied the church to be Catholike and visible althoughe at some times it is more visible thē at som I praye you quoth my Lorde of Chichester tel me where the churche which alowed your doctrine was this .iiii. C. yeres ▪ I will tel you my Lorde quoth I or rather you shall tell it you selfe If you will tell me where the church was in Helias time when Helias said that he was lefte alone That is no aunswere quoth my Lorde of Chichester I am more sorye you saye so quoth I But this will I tell you lordshipp that the same eies wherewith a mā might haue espied the church thē yf you nowe had them you would not saye it were no answere The fault why the churche is not sene of you is not bycause the churche is not visible but bicause your eyes are not clere ynoughe to se it you are much deceiued quoth he to make such a collation betwine the churche then now Verie well speks my Lord quoth the Byshoppe of yorke for Christes saith Edificabo ecclesiam meam I wyll buylde my churche and not I do or haue buyld it but I will build it My lord quoth I Peter taught me to make this collacion saying as in the people there was false Prophetes whiche were muche in estima●ion afore Christes comming so shall there be false teachers nowe and verye manye shall followe them And as for your futurtence I hope your grace quod I wil not exclude thereby Christs church not to haue ben before ▪ but rather that there is no buyldinge in the Churche but by Christes woorke onelye For Paule and Apollo be but waterers In good faith maister Bradford quoth my my lord of Chichester I am sorye to see you so litle to mind the churche He taketh vpon him as they al doo to iudge the church quod my Lorde of yorke A man shall neuer come to certentie that doth as they doo My Lorde quoth I take me beseche you in good part I speake simplie what I thincke and I desire reason to aunswere my obiections your affections sorowes can not by rules If that you consider the ende and cause of my condempnacion I can not thincke but that it shoulde so● thinge moue your honours you knowe it well ynoughe for you herd it no matter was layed againste me but what was gathered vppon myne one confession Bycause I denyed transubstantiacion and the wycked to receaue Christes body in the Sacramente therfore I was condempned and excommunicate but not of the Church although the pillers of the same as they be taken dyd it No quoth my Lorde of Chichester I herd say that the cause of youre prisonemente was for that you exhorced the people to take the sword in the one hande and the matocke in the other I neuer ment any suche thynge nor speake any thynge in that sorte my lord quoth I. yea quoth my Lorde of Yorke you behaued your selfe before the Counsell so stoutlye at the first that you woulde defend the Religion then and therefore worthelye were you punished your grace quoth I did here me aunswere my Lorde Chauncellor in that pointe But put the case I had ben so stote as they and your grace make it was not the lawes of y e realme on me side then wherfore vniustlie I was punished Onely transubstantiacion which was had on myne owne confession was the thing on which my lorde Chauncellor proceded you denye the presence quoth my lord of yorke I do not quoth I to the faith of the worthy receauer Why quoth he what is that thē to saye that Christe lyeth not of the alter No my lorde quoth I in dede I beleue not suche

are they that are not offended at me yea quoth I my lord you thinck none is of the church but such as suffer persecutiō what I thincke quod I god knoweth I pray your grace iudge me by anye wordes and speaking and marke what Paule saythe Omnes qui volunt all that wil liue godly in christ Iesu must suffer persecutions Sometime Christ church hath reste here but commonlye quoth I it is not so And specially towardes the end her forme wil be more vnsemlye But what saye you to sainct Augustin quoth he where is youre Churche that hath the consent of people nations Mary quod I al people natiōs y t be gods people haue cōsented with me I w t them in the doctrine of faith Loo quoth he howe you goo about to shifte of all thinges No my lord quoth I I meane simplye and so speake god knoweth S. Augustī quoth he dooth here talke of successiō euen frō Peters sea yea like your grace ꝙ I that sea thē was nothīg so much corrupt as it is now Wel quod he you alwaies iudge y e church No my lord quod I. As christs shep discerne christs voice but they iudged not it so they discerne the churche but not iudge her yes that you do sath he● No like your grace quoth I ful wel may a mā doubte of y e Romish church for she obaeth not Christs voice as christs true church doth wherin quod he ī latē seruis ꝙ I robbeth the Laytye of Christes cuppe in the Sacramentes Why quoth my lord of Chichester Latten seruice was in England when the Pope was gon True quoth I tyme was when the Pope was awaye but not all Poperie as in Kyng Henrys dayes Latten seruice quoth my lord of yorke was appointed to be songe had in y e Queare where only were Clerici that is such as vnderstād laten y e people sitting in y e bodie of y e churche prayinge their owne priuat prayers and this quoth he maye well be yet sene by making of the Chaunsell and Quere so as the people could not come in or heare them yea qut my lorde quoth I both in Chrisostomes tyme and also in the laten churche in sainct Ieromes tyme as he writteth in the preface I trowe to the Galathians al the church saith Amen Aunswering againe mightely Amen whereby we maye see that y e prayers were made that both the people herd them and vnderstod them you are to blame quoth my Lorde of Chichester to saye that the churche robbeth the people of the Cup. Well my lord quod I turne it as please you all men knowe that the Laitye hath none of it In dede ꝙ I I would wishe the churche would defyne againe that they might haue it for my ꝑt if god make free quoth I who cā define to make bound generallie Well quoth my lord of yorke maister Bradford we lese but labour for you seke to put awaye al thīgs y t be told you to your good your churche no man can knowe yes that you maye well quoth I. I pray you whereby said he forsoth Chrisostome shoeth it Tantummodo per scripturas onely by the scriptures and thus speaketh he verye often times togyther as you well knowe quod I ▪ In ded quod he that is of Chrisostome In opere imperfecto whiche maye be doubted of the thinge whereby the church may be knowen beste is successiō of Byshoppes No my lord quod I Lyra ful well writteth vppon Matthew that Ecclesia non consistit in hominibus ratione Potestatis secularis aut ecclesiastice Sedin hominibus in quibus est noti●ia Vera et confessio Fidei et veritatis And in Hilarius time you know he writteth to Auxcentius that the Churche dyd rather Delitescere in cauernis them Eminere in primariis sedibus Here commeth one of their seruauntes and tolde them that my lorde of Durisme taried for them at Maister yorkes house for inded it was paste .12 of the clocke vppon a .4 howres they taryed with me And after that there mā was come they put vp there written bokes of common places and saide they lamented my case and so wishing me to red ouer a boke whiche dyd doctor Crome good as my Lorde of Chichester sayde and wyshyng me good in words they wente there wayes and I to my prison Vppon mondaye whiche was the .22 of Februarie about .8 of y e clock in y e morning which was an howre soner then was appointed There came to the Coūter where I was in prison to Spannishe friers Alphonsus and the kings Confeffor as they said and with them twoo priestes whiche were Englishe men as I wene when the howse was voyded of other companye I was called donne beinge come before them a stoole was pouled out and I bidden sit doune whiche thinge I did after a signe of ciuilitie geuen to them Nowe thus sitting beginneth the Confessor to speake in latten and aske me in latten for al our talke was in latten whether I had not sene nor herd of one Alphonsus y t had writen against heresies And I aunswered that I did not know him well quoth he this man pointing to Alphonsꝰ is he Verye good quoth I. After this he beginneth to tell me howe that of loue and charitie by the meanes of the Erle of Darbye they come to me bycause I desired to conferre with them And I answered that I neuer desired there cōming nor to conferre with them or any other but quoth I seing you are come of charitie as you saye I cannot but thanckfully acknowledge it and as for conference though I desire it not yet quoth I I wyl not refuse to talke with you if you will Than began Alphonsus to tel me that it were requisite I did pray vnto god that I mighte followe the direction of gods spirite and as he should enspire me not being addicte to min owne selfe will and with where vpō I made a prayer besaught god to directe al our wille words and workes as the willes words and workes of his children for euer yea quoth Alphonsus you muste praye with your herte For if you speake but with tong onely God will not giue you his grace Sir quoth I. doo not iudge leste you be iudged you haue hearde my wordes now charitie would haue you to leaue the iudgement of the hart to god you must quoth Alphonsus be as it were a newter not wedded to your sentence But as one standinge in doubte praye and beleue be redye to receaue what god shall inspire for quoth he in vaine laboureth our tong to speake els Sir quoth I my sentence if you meane it for Religion must not be in a doubting or vncertein as I thācke god it is not euen for that where in I am condēpned I haue no cause to doubt but rather to be most certein of it therfor I pray god to confirme me more in it for it is his truthe And therfore