Selected quad for the lemma: faith_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
faith_n	church_n	invisible_a	visible_a	9,700	5	9.4455	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A29084	A defence of the Kings authority and supremacy in the church & church-discipline and that he is supream head and governour over all persons, in all causes ecclesiastical : against these disciplinarians, the Pope and his clergy, the bishops and episcoparians, the Scottish and English Presbyterians, with the independents ... / by Theophilus Brabourne.	Brabourne, Theophilus, b. 1590.	1660 (1660)	Wing B4091; ESTC R25285	18,498	27

onely endeavour to set the saddle on the right horse saying It is the office of the Magistrate not of the Bishop or Minister These things premised now I come to my taske and shall handle by sundry questions and answers thereunto drawing nearer and nearer unto it by little and little untill I come to the main The consideration whereof may prove useful to the King and Parliament For desire them I do to be cautious of putting their own sword into the hands of the Clergy lest they turn the point of it against Magistrates Have not the Scots excommunicated their King and may not our Bishops if true to their principles do the same to any Member in Parliament or Magistrate in the Kingdome Yea to the King himselfe as I shall prove before I have done and so I come to the questions 1. Quest Who are the Church I answ Not the Clergy onely but the Laiety Clergy both not excluding but including the Magistrate For the Magistrate is not onely a member of the Common-wealth but also a member of the Church He is an Ecclesiasticall person as well as the Minister for he is of and belonging to the Church as well as the Minister and so much is signified by the word Ecclesiasticall Wherefore you may not object against the Magistrate saying he may not meddle with Excommunication because he is a Lay-man For we must know that the Magistrate is an Ecclesiastical person as well as the Minister But you will say the Minister is a Spirituall man so is not the Magistrate I answ He is a spirituall man that minds spirituall things and leads a spiritual life Rom. 8.1 5. Rom. 7.6 Now God be praised for it we have many Magistrates who are spiritual men and lead a spiritual life and many thousands of common people who are so too but Bishops and Clergymen and the Pope will be the spiritual men and Magistrates and others must be the carnal men Whereas I said even now the Laiety and Clergy I shall be quarrelled with by the Clergy for giving the priority to the Laiety and not to the Clergy as hath been the custome for many hundred years Now I grant that it hath been the custome ever since there was a Pope and ever since the Pope exalted himself above all that is called God that is above the Magistrate 2 Thes 2.4 and see Psal 82.6 And this Popish custome would Bishops and Clergy-men uphold still But are not the King Parliament and Magistrates Lay persons as they call them and are not these above the Clergy If these then be above Bishops and Clergy-men these must have the priority as well as superiority and therefore I said the Laiety and Clergy to say otherwise is Popish and tending to a denyall of the Kings supremacy Quest 2. How are the members of the Church to be qualified I answ Not speaking of the invisible but of the visible Church on earth these must have faith and repentance or at least a profession of these now that this latter makes a member of the Church I thus prove it 1. Baptisme is the door into the Church and such as were baptized were entred into the Church and admitted as members of the Church Now John the Baptist baptized a great multitude as Jerusalem and all Judea and all the Country about Jordan upon confession of their sins Mat. 3.5 6. Now John could not know any more of these then their verball profession and yet he admitted them into the Church by baptisme 2. The 3000. converted and baptized by Peter and so admitted into the Church he could know no more of them then their externall profession by submission to his baptisme and by saying men and brethren what shall we do which were but words True the Text saith they were pricked in heart Acts 2.37 But how could Peter know this save by their words and submission to his baptisme both which were externall The Text saith vers 45. they sold their possessions to give to the poor yet Ananias was a lyar Acts 5.1 c. See 1 John 2.19 Mat. 13.20 Further the people of Laodicea were a Church Rev. 3.14 yet many of them had but externall profession Simon the Sorcerer was baptized and so made a member of the Church Acts 8.13 and Judas was a member of Christs family and Church By the way note that there is a superstitious niceness in some who will not admit one a member of their Church without a moneths tryall c. but this is after the doctrine and commandements of men Col. 2.22 23. not after the practice of John the Baptist To return If a Magistrate hath but an outward profession he is a member of the Church and an Ecclesiasticall person as well as a Minister Let none therefore say he is a Lay-man and therefore he may not meddle with Excommunication as a Minister may Quest 3. Is a Magistrate an Elder and Ruler of the Church I answ He is not onely an Elder and Ruler of the Common-wealth but also of the Church this later I thus prove These called the Elders and Rulers of the people of this Common-wealth Numb 11.16 24. were Rulers of the Church also For Moses commanded Aaron the chief Priest to offer Incense which was a Church-matter Numb 16.46 King Hezekiah did the like 2 Chron. 31.2 King David did so too 1 Chron. 16.7 And also King Josiah 2 Kings 23.4 and 2 Chron. 35 15.1 2 3 c. Things written afore-time were written for our learning Rom. 15.4 Hence it follows 1. If therefore a Magistrate be a Ruler of the Church why may not he punish the scandalous sinner in the Church and that with any punishment sutable to the offence be it by their punishment of Excommunication or any other punishment it is in vain for him to command if he may not punish 2 If a Lay-Elder be he the Bishops Chancellor or the Ministers Elders may punish with Excommunication why may not the Magistrate do so too though you call him a Lay-man But you will say the Lay-Elder doth it not alone but with the Minister Answ If he doth it with another yet he doth it though not alone The chief Priests and Elders together put Christ to death Yet we may say and speak truly the Elders put Christ to death Quest 4. Do you make two Churches in one Common wealth the one of the Magistrates the other of the Ministers I answ Yea for they hold the Congregation and Assembly of the Minister and people in the Parish-house to be one Church and I shall prove that there is another Church as in the Senate-house or common Hall where the Magistrate and people are congregated and assembled for matters of Justice For the word Ecclesia translated a Church signifyeth a Congregation or an Assembly of people Acts 7.38 Acts 19.32 39 41. Now the Magistrate and people in the Senat-house are a Congregation and an Assembly of people and therefore they are a Church and all

of them are Ecclesiastical persons of and belonging to this Church As the Magistrate and people are a Church so they are a Church of Christ for they are all Christians professing Christ and faith in Christ and they are also a Church of God for their authority is of and from God Rom. 13.1 and they assemble in their Hall to serve God The Magistrate by ruling for God and in his place the people to be ruled by God and his righteous Lawes The Magistrates Court therefore being a Church of God why should any say or think that it is an unfit place for the censure of Excommunication may it not soon be as fit a place as the Chancellours or Bishops Consistory Another quest of these two Churches which is greater Papists say the Clergy Church so they say Bishops too for they say Church and State but we ought to give priority and superiority to the State and say State and Church For Moses commanded Aaron and so did Kings the Priests to speak otherwise giving priority to the Church is popish and tending to a denyall of the Kings supremacy Quest 5. Being the Magistrate is no Divine how can he know who is fit or not fit to be excommunicated I answ How can two or three Lay-Elders know who is fit and who not being they are no Divines And how can the Bishops Chancellour know who is fit and not fit for he is no Divine 2. As for scandalous sins as adultery drunkenness swearing and such like being all matters of Fact the Magistrate knows them as well as the Bishop or Minister for the Magistrate doth daily punish these sins in his Court. As for fundamentall doctrines being none are such but onely such as are clearly laid down in Scripture and being they are daily preached on by our Ministers the Magistrate is not ignorant of these Or if he be God hath ordained the help of the Minister by way of counsel and advice but still so as the power and authority as Judge to passe censure is still in the Magistrate as you may read Deut. 17.8 9 10 11. As for points disputable not cleerly revealed in Scripture I hold that no man is to be excommunicated for these for if he be the innocent may be punished as soon as the wicked And therefore the Magistrate needs not meddle with such points but onely with sins clearly revealed to be sins as incest 1 Cor. 5.1 c. and by like reason swearing drunkennesse and the like Whereas I said the Magistrate may take the advice of the Minister c. I mean his advice in a fundamentall doctrine which is very cleerly a sin in Scripture for else he may give wicked advice But as for a doubtfull and disputable controversie wherein Scripture is alledged on both sides it is not safe for the Magistrate to condemn either side upon advice of the Minister for a Church may erre a Councell may erre and 10. or 12. Ministers may erre too Suppose therefore a point comes before the Magistrate which commonly is holden to be an error or heresie where will the Magistrate finde among the Clergy competent and fit Judges to determine it for the Clergy hold the common opinion Now if the Magistrate call in to his help and advice ten or 12. of the Clergy will they not all advise for their own opinion and then they will be incompetent and partiall Judges Do you think they will justifie the accused party and condemn themselves I dare say it that all the Bishops in England will condemn this book if not before they see it But the Law permits no man to be a judge or a witness in his own cause when the Clergy gives judgement of a cause commonly holden by others and themselves to be an errour or heresie they are like the High Court of Justice all or the major part came thither with a resolution to make an end of the KING before they rose Quest 6. Is the King next under Christ supreme head of the Church Answ This question is out of question with me but being I hear of some Ministers beyond Sea offended at this Title and have read of some in England of like opinion I shall here prove the point and first by the Laws of our Kingdome and then by the Scripture 1. The Laws of our Kingdome do give unto our King this just and Royall title to be supreme Head under Christ over all persons and in all causes Ecclesiasticall or spirituall wherefore the King is supreme haad of the Church and therefore all good Subjects must acknowledge him so to be Rom. 13.1 2. I have before proved out of the Scriptures that King Hezekiah David and Josiah were Rulers and Governours over the Church and in Church-matters 2 Chron. 31.2 1 Chron. 16.7 2 Chron. 35.1 c. 2 Chron. 35.15 2 King 23.4 Now those godly Kings were supreme in authority for there was none above or before them It was prophesied of that in time of the Gospel Kings should be our nursing Fathers Isa 49.22 23. Now in our dayes though we have many Magistrates of high authority yet none of them can or will challenge the supremacy but the King onely 3. See a pregnant Text for it 1 Pet. 2.13 Submit your selves c. unto the King as unto the supreme So supremacy is the Kings just Title Now being it is so why do Bishops say and write Church and State as if the Church and Bishops were above the King where is then the Kings supremacy Quest 7. Doth the punishment of Excommunication belong to the office of a Bishop and his Chancellour or to the Minister and his Lay-Elders I answer negatively This office belongs not to any Lay-Elder who is not a Magistrate of the Common-wealth nor to any Chancellour who is a Lay-man and no Magistrate the contrary I expect to see Bishops or Ministers to prove if they can And I answer concerning Bishops or Ministers alone without their Elders or Assistants and I deny also that this office doth belong to a Bishop or a Minister The contrary lyes upon both of them to prove if they can In the mean time I thus prove against them 1. Excommunication is a punishment so confessed by all men and so called in Scripture 2 Cor. 2.6 and a punishment is a revenge or taking vengeance on them that do evill Rom. 13.4 Now Bishops and Ministers may not punish and revenge For this belongs to the Magistrate Rom. 13.4 not to a Bishop or Minister St. Paul saith a Bishop must be no striker 1 Tim. 3.3 Now I know not why a Bishop may not as well strike with his hand or fist as punish and take vengeance on any man by Excommunication Their distinction of corporall and spirituall punishment will not help them as you shall see in the next quest 2. The office of the Magistrate is to summon into his Court these scandalous sinners the adulterer swearer drunkard and the like and in his