see a necessary connexion with the deliver'd Faith if you say so you desert your vertue of prophesying and come over to our School which you so abominate as rational and faithless yet this experience teaches us is the way that Popes and Councils use to take If you say their consulting must not hold till they see it by reason then tell me what Oedipus or Geometrician can guess or fix the terminating line of counsell prerequisite These points a Scholar would have setled You distinguish nothing but jumble all your Bells together into a confused noise and deafen more then instruct your Hearers Now 't is to much purpose to talk of the force of the word Anathema whilest you have not settled a matter in which the Church hath a power to impose it What an inconsiderate manner of arguing is this You say Catholiks require no other assurance of their Faith then upon this firm foundation that our holy Mother the Church is their infallible directress The proposition is the very Tenet we mainly advance and stick to Go but consequently to this and we shall have no quarrell You add another ground that the Councils her mouth are the unerring deliverers of truth This also is very true and never deny'd by us But there rises a great question whether Councils be perpetually and in all cases the mouth of the Church look upon Cariolanus his abridgment of the Councils and read his division of General Councils into approbata and reprobata and ex parte approbata and ex parte improbata and see how ignorantly you go to work even in the grounds of your own eminent learned men who will oppose you peradventure more then I and yet you preach Christian Religion is a mockery if this be taken away I desire not to look into particulars unless you force me to it For I cannot discover even your Errours without discovering too the vanity of that School which you nickname the Church and confidently take upon you to be one of her Masters I doubt not if you attentively consider your eminent Scholars you will find many of them speak indeed gloriously of Councils but unless I be strangely deceiv'd they give them less of inward and reall Authority then I while they make them in effect but Cyphers to the Pope without whom they signify nothing though added perhaps to him they increase his signification yet surely not very much since in many of those Masters opinion he alone is infallible and I think in every ones opinion all together are not much more Whereas the Doctrin I follow gives them an absolute Inerrancy in testifying receiv'd truths which is clearly sufficient to conserve and propagate the Faith of the Church I beleeve you mistake the meaning of that grave and worthy Person whom without any ground at all for your conceit you call my Scholar since he seriously protests he never gave his mind that way nor ever read over any considerable part of my Books nor particularly this of the Middle State his true meaning I conceive is we may know when Councils and Consistory's apply themselves right by examining not Tradition it self for that's evident in the sence of the Faithfull but their proceedings by Tradition whether they be conformable to it Which is not onely a maintainable but excellent truth And by this method the Divines of those dayes examin'd the Doctrin of John 22. For Tradition is the Law of Christ planted in the hearts of all Christians not to be examin'd it being to be read fair written there by their externall words and conversations Now if a Pope or Council be supposed to delver Doctrin against this 't is past darkness and examining since all the Christian world cannot choose but resent it and know it to be against their Faith and Judgment So that you plainly misunderstand the meaning of Tradition which is no hidden thing but the publick and settled belief of the Christian world You will say 't is impossible a Pope or Council should proceed so grosly I wish there were no examples of it But the truth is if instead of a Pope consider'd onely personally you take him as presiding in his Church and Seat and joyn'd with it which is a kind of more then a Provinciall Council but much more if you take a General Council without extraordinary violence without or within both mainly visible this cannot happen and so they have infallibility in attesting the received Doctrins most absolutely sufficient to secure the Church against being mis-led by them By the same Errour you look to determin Faith by Inquest not knowing it cannot be unknown in a Catholick Country to them that live there See the story of Luther Were men doubtfull of their Faith before he and his fellows in iniquity set themselves to snarl at it Therefore Inquest may be made how to answer their Argumments but not to understand what the Church held before opposition rose How much mistaken is all your discourse about the proceeding to higher Tribunals after so great diligence of scrutiny There is no such thing as scrutiny necessary to find out Faith nor ever was the Church to seek her Faith Since she once receiv'd it from Jesus Christ she never lost it and so is to look into it not for it If any thing be to be look for it is not faith it may be some Theologicall Verity not faith Your discourse therefore is wholly out of the way No wonder then you find your self at a loss and cry out like a blind man for a hand to guide you since instead of Christs faith you look for a new faith One would have it an Article of our Christian faith that his Order is a true Religious Order Another that one hang'd for treason is a true Martyr others seek some private revelation that brings in profit to be canoniz'd for faith and other such fine questions to be put in the Creeds of the Church and if it be not yeelded there 's a power in the Church to impose such beliefs upon men presently the denying Doctrin is an Exterminating School and pulls up by the roots all the foundations of Christian Religion Nor will there want some to say that though these things be true they are not to be published but Catholicks are to be left in ignorance of such tender points But will not the mischief by degrees grow intolerable if once it should come to that height that the People by a preoccupated credence be apt to be stirr'd seditiously against their naturall and lawfull Governour by any surreptitious Rescript fetch't from beyond Sea freshly seal'd with the new stamp of faith and to believe all Christianity is rain'd if such a Rescript nay the Interpretation of the procurers be any way doubted of O strange unhappy times You press farther that according to me the Church hath de facto erred in the Bull and Council so long treated of What a strange boldness is this you bring an Interpretation
Councils if they proceed duly in their discussion And must all this be conceald and onely three generall words which declare neither particular manner nor matter be barely alleadg'd as a ground of all your spitefull Rhetorick How strange a proceeding is this for a Christian My third note is that in case Christ be a perfect Law-giver and that the Faith he left be sufficient and no more necessary for the Church that is if a Council have nothing to do in making new Articles of Faith then I onely deny Infallibility to Councils in things unnecessary for the Church and unconcerning their duty as Definers of Faith and give them an absolute Inerrancy in all points necessary for the Church that is in all that can truly concern their main purpose that is defining Faith And more than this I beleeve you will find an hundred Catholick Doctors to one deny them as well as I. My fourth note shall be that you would make the denying Infallibility of Councils abstracting both from all matters and manners of proceeding or acceptation of the Church for so you treat it my singular opinion whereas thus spoken of we have for their Errability amongst the Franciscans Castillo and the learned Author of Systema Fidei who cites him for the Dominicans Sotus who tells us that if God by his secret judgment suffers a Council to err he will not permit it long to be conceald from the Church but will take order that it be corrected by another following Council before it be receiv'd in the Church For the Jesuits Bacon telling us it was the opinion of Saint Austin and of all the writers of that Age that the resolution of Faith was compleated in the reception of the whole Christian world For the Fathers Saint Austin himself whose known words are that Plenary Councils have been corrected by following ones where he seems also to speak even of matters of Faith Of Cardinalls Cusanus that it may be observ'd by all experience that an universall Council may fail For your own Doctors worthy Dean Cressy in whom you may find most of these Authors cited Exomol c. 33. where he acknowledges the placing the Infallibility of Councils ultimately in the acceptation of the Church an opinion at least allowable and according to his eminent learning and charity puts down the conveniences he observ'd in that Doctrin to the reducing the Heterodox party Nor onely these but indeed who is there of any note that will say a Council is Infallilible unless it proceed Conciliariter and that it may not proceed conciliarly or after the regular way of a Council I beleeve you are not unacquainted if you be let Pope Martin the fifth teach it you who in the last Session of the Council of Constance declares himself to hold and observe their Decrees made conciliariter non aliter nec alio modo and this too expresly in matters of Faith which caution of his shows he held a possibility of their proceeding illegally Now what they call Conciliariter I call in definitions of Faith attending to Tradition which put I hold and maintain them absolutely Infallible whereas I believe all except me if you examin the matter well and report it candidly put more numerous and more difficult conditions to their Infallibility and far more liable to contingency than what I require which is both extremely hard to fail and when it does must needs be most notorious to the whole world and so beyond my power to pretend or excuse it as you would wisely perswade the Reader by saying this Doctrin brings all into my hands So that we have eminently learned men of all the chief orders in Gods Church Cardinalls and Fathers to omit many or rather all others directly of my opinion in holding a Non est impossibile speaking in generall or rather I of theirs and yet I onely must be raild at as if none in the world held it or broacht it but I. Turn now I beseech you valiant Sir the mouth of your pot-gun against all these renowned Authors and discharge your intemperate spleen against them as abandoning the Catholick Church denying the Authority of Councils and such like which make up a great part of your worthy work and see how feeble an attempt you will make and whether you will not deserve as great an hiss as you have made a noise to no purpose but to breath out some of your swelling passion At least excuse your self to charitable Christians why omitting to mention all others Authority who held the same Doctrin with mine leaping over the backs of all distinctions both of matter and manner without which your discourse signify's nothing and lastly why leaving out words of mine within the same comma which should clear me you rawly took out three onely which were generall ones apply'd them to what particular sence you pleas'd nay extended them to that which was invidious and which I never held and by these arts abus'd the veneration which the vulgar justly have of Councils to stir up in them an undeserved ill opinion against me I pass by in my Book many such like carriages of yours this because you so often and so maliciously glance at I could not leave totally unreflected on If it would not spoil your sport I would crave leave to right the reader in the conceit you would imprint in him of my Romancicall Hell as you are pleas'd to term it the ridiculousness of which lies in your expressions not mine One would think by your putting Dancers Bowlers Fencers c. in other Letters they were my words but he would be mistaken One would think that the words attempting now in Hell in all their severall postures which signify'd as if they were playing tricks there were my words or sence but would be mistaken again One would have thought you might have had the candor not to omit the word quasi which would have spoild the exactness of the postures you fancy and so have much qualify'd your jeft Lastly one that had not known you might have imagin'd you would have transcrib'd to the full point and not still take two or three words single and then you should have seen the mixture of desperation fear and grief marring the perfect molds your Imagination had fram'd and made me say no more but that the shapes of the damned were frightfull and distracted But to omit other little advantages by which you strive in the translating 3 lines to render my sence ridiculous I would gladly know where you find these words spoken of damned Souls as you would here perswade us I would gladly know where you find the word now which you put as mine attempting now in Hell wheras the whole Chapter is intitled declares it self in each Paragraph to speak of their Bodyes onely not Souls and this not now but expresly at the day of Judgment or rather if it could be after it Were ever three lines singled out from their fellows so
RELIGION AND REASON Mutually corresponding and assisting each other FIRST ESSAY A Reply to the vindicative Answer lately publisht against a Letter in which the sence of a Bull and Council concerning the duration of Purgatory was discust By Thomas White Gent. Vinc. Lir. cap. 27. Intelligatur te exponente illustriùs quod anteà obscuriùs credebatur Per te Posteritas intellectum gratuletur quod ante Vetustas non intellectum venerabatur Eadem tamen quae didicisti ita doce ut cum dicas novè non dicas nova PARIS MMLX THE AUTHOR TO THE JUDICIOUS READER I Suppose you have perus'd the Book I here pretend to Answer And how do you like it has he done his work I dare not say demonstrated for sure he will not offer at what he thinks impossible but has he prov'd which is a modest word and he must not be offended at it has he solidly prov'd That the position he sustains is a Truth traditionarily deliver'd from the Apostles to us as a point of Catholick Faith Or secondly That It is Defin'd either in the Bull or Council if he had done this I should heartily rejoyce in his Victory though over my self But if as to the first branch he have onely prov'd it the common perswasion of later Ages and that without clearing in what quality it is held whether as Faith or Opinion even by the Moderns If instead of the Consent of Fathers he bring but One above Exception and out of that One the first and chief testimony is indifferent both to him and me and the onely difficulty of the rest objected and answer'd by my self and unreply'd to by him If of the three passages he cites out of the publick Liturgyes one onely bear any shew of difficulty the other two being either plainly neutral or grosly abus'd And if in the second branch he have onely prov'd that it was suppos'd or as their Title-page warily calls it Contain'd in the Bull and Council and not Determin'd I cannot see my case so desperate as he imagins Scripture it self oftentimes proceeding upon Suppositions conformable to the fore-entertain'd apprehensions of those it speaks to without engaging that every such supposition is a reveal'd Truth But on the other side if I have plentifully alledg'd both Scriptures and Fathers and Liturgyes and Reasons too of which me thinks a little does well even among Divines and to none of these has he given the least satisfactory answer I cannot see but my case is hopefull and when you have read this little Treatise I cannot doubt but you will see it so too But all this engages onely a particular Controversy the next is of a far more high and universal importance of a far different strain from other single and ordinary Questions For in this we agree that what the Church sayes is the truth we agree in the words wherein the Church delivers us that truth our onely dispute is about the sence of those words or rather what ought to be the means to come to the knowledge of that sence We find by dayly experience the same Creed recited in the mouths of children of men and of the learned We cannot doubt but the apprehensions of children and men are different and that our young thoughts are to be corrected by Age but whether the Learned and the Prudential make the same apprehensions is the great Controversy between us My Antagonist seeing the largest part of the Church consist of this degree of Prudential men perswades himself that not only their Belief but their very apprehensions are uncontrollable and unamendable I conceive God has given that priviledg to Learning to make us understand the truth of our Faith better then by vulgar and popular conceptions On my side stand the endeavours of the whole Schools whose direct Profession it is to explicate and declare the true sence of Scripture and the words in which Faith is left us On his side stands the multitude of the common People whose fancyes are not elevated nor their judgments improv'd by Study this Multitude he loudly calls the Church All Christianity and such brave names but be not astonisht at his great words for he distinguishes not between the Church and the weaker part of it which he follows nor offended at me that I observe not a grave and regular Progresse where I am set to catch a bird that hops up and down from twig to twig chirps upon this a little and then flyes immediately to another but rather pity the condition of an old clumsy man too slow and heavy for so wild a Chace Wherein yet by the help of God I am resolv'd to follow him as fast as I can As the whole Book in a manner is made up of little else but boutades and flashes so you are onely to expect from me short hints of what might be said more dilatedly which I hope may suffice to counterblast those sudden gusts If any other as is threatend come out with stronger Ordnance I shall endeavour to oppose stronger Bulwarks I hope he will write hereafter more closely and with less distemper especially since now as I understand he intends to read my Books I would he had done so before he had written against them for then I might have hop'd a few hours would have suffic'd to make my Answer which now has cost me all my spare time of a whole fortnight Tho. White INDEX A EVery Act even a sinfull one has some perfection as to what 's positive in it pag. 132. That Affections got here are not distinct from the Soul no singular Opinion p. 131 132. Antiquity not favouring ante-judiciary Delivery shown from the miscarriage of his best Testimonies thence p. 105 106 107. Arraignment of the Author feebly attempted p. 90 91 92. C. CEnsuring of Doctrins and who may lawfully do it p. 6 7 8. Controversy in what manner to be handled p. 5 6. Corporeall Affections remain after separation p. 137 138 141 142 143. Best Corporeall pleasures most conducive to Beatitude from p. 133. to p. 137. The Council of Florence examin'd p. 49. It and the Bull wrongly descanted on by his eminently learned Divine p. 53. not holding ante-judiciary Delivery a materiall point nor of Faith p. 58 59 60 61. Councils how held by the Author how by some other Divines p. 64 65 66. Infallible in things necessary and proceeding advisedly p. 68 69. Their Errability speaking in common and abstractedly from all matters and manners of proceeding held by all p. 121 122 123. Fewer easier and less deceivable requisites to their Infallibility in the Authors Doctrin than in others p. 71. 121. 123. The Council of Trents Doctrin concerning Remission and Satisfaction exactly observ'd by the Author p. 177 178 179. D. DEfinitions may proceed upon Suppositions onely probable p. 96. 97. Delivery so speedily expected by Priviledg'd Altars diminishing the care of assisting our dead Friends p. 88 89. and our amendment here p. 184 185. The opinion of
I ever said the People should have it The same I conceive hath ever been in the Church in a certain degree Of which there are manifest signs in Saint Denys the Areopagite Saint Basil Saint Gregory Nazianzen and others as also in the Latin Church specially in Saint Austin Boetius Saint Auselm and others But I conceive demonstration will be both in its matter and in Divines much more diffus'd then it is yet So that in the Church will ever march together Science and Faith though in diverse measures Some other little nibblings at my Doctrin or rather at little bits of it snatcht from the Context as your custom is because taken entire 't is too difficult for your teeth interlace your jollity in these your Sections of mirth and raillery As that of a dispossest Governour which you deform in the worst manner you can by leaving out the Antecedents and Consequents which would have let you see that my discourse proceeds in the case that onely his own private interest or particular good be oppos'd and counter-ballanc't to the publike not if the publick good be for his restorement For then my whole Book favours him Wherefore to make my Doctrin invidious against the Person you mean you must first subsume that his re-entry is against the common good otherwise I say nothing against him but all for him and if you subsume this I believe you will deserve no great thanks for your officious mistake but approve your self his greatest enemy Next you are hugely troubled that in Rushworth's Dialogues which you say are mine I make the letter of the Scripture so uncertain And this objection I may conceive you borrow'd from Doctor Hammond whose Book in which he has something against me and as I am told this very passage was extant long before yours and I doubt not but you read very diligently whatever opposes me Unless perhaps good wits jump't in their observations which also may be likely for you agree much taken as Scholars in your method of seeking for Truth I must profess therefore to answer both in one that you are two of the prettiest men that ever I met with and most hard to please with reason Neither of you can endure I should attempt profess certainty and evidence in things capable of it that is in matters scientifical nor yet profess uncertainty in matters not capable of certitude as in our present point about the delivery of words by way of transcriptions of Copists or Scriveners relying upon their own human diligence which 't is impossible to secure against over-sight besides divers other miscarriages which the Fathers as well as I complain the Letter of the Scripture was lyable to But to satisfie your tender Conscience and other Catholikes like yours I profess that that place speaks of the Letter of Scripture as left to multitudes of human contingencies and imbecillities and as taken abstractedly from and unassisted by Tradition or the Churches living voice and practice to guide securely the delivery of it downwards But I ever profess that this guidance of Tradition did efficaciously preserve the Letter untainted in all that was coincident with Christian Tradition that is in all points necessary to mankinds salvation and not onely so but so far the rest of the Scripture's Letter too that nothing evidently contrary to the doctrin of Tradition or Christian Faith could light into it So that Catholiks may with all security accept it and hold to it And yet notwithstanding the aid of tradition formerly above 2000 faults were corrected in it by our late Pope's since the beginning of the Council of Trent and more still remain to be a mended as the Preface to the same Bible grants nor is any person living able to stint us the ultimate compleating of the true copy Thus much to you How I can satisfy Doctor Hammond who holds Tradition onely then when he can serve his turn of it and otherwhiles impugns it by what way in his grounds he can be certain of one little of it I know not and therefore must leave him to the Fruits of his Labour in impugning Tradition that is to a perfect uncertainty of any thing that can concern his Faith In a word to a Catholik my position onely signifies that we are beholding to the living voyce of the Church even for any Certainty of the true Copy of the Scripture which why it deserves more exception that Saint Austin's noted saying of Evangelio non crederem c. I should be glad to learn But you think Rushworth has made too long a Catalogue of uncertainties To which I answer that if you please to scan the occasions of that long Catalogue and then tell us how many we may safely abate I shall in his behalf remain very much oblig'd to you If not 't is plain you do not know we can abate any or that his Catalogue is longer then it should be in his case After this you give a wipe at my denying the Popes personall Infallibility and as for the point you well know 't is held but a probable opinion and that many learned Authors hold the same opinion with me As for my censuring it I shall hope the reasons given for it in Tabulae Suffragiales will stand to justify me till something of greater force than clamour appears to overthrow them that is till it can be shown less than Archi-hereticall to say that an opinion which confessedly is no more but probable can be a sufficient ground to build Christian Faith upon Your next piece of Gallantry is your old and oft repeated clamour of my denying the Infallibility of Councils which forces me to lay open to the world how far your Malice is above your Conscience in writing against me To do which I offer the Reader those few notes First that you onely cite here three words non est impossible to prove confusedly that I deny all Authority of Councils whereas in my Tab. suffrag. p. 277. the place where it is found which had you quoted the Reader might have rectify'd himself it follows immediately ut Concilium tentet hoc facere tentando in errorem incidat It is not impossible a Council should attempt This and so err Now what this word This relates to is to be seen in the Paragraph immediately foregoing to wit to the making new Articles of Faith so that I put Councils errable onely in such a matter that is in creating us a new Faith you by maiming purposely my words make me hold them to have no Authority in any thing Can this consist with honesty or fair dealing Next is to be noted that in the same Discourse there which gives account of my Doctrin professedly concerning Councils I maintain in express terms that Councils are of Infallible Authority in declaring Articles of Faith that the Pope declaring ex cathedra concerning a matter of Faith is infallible and that the same is to be said of Generall and even Provinciall
far modester than you and profest as he did dislike my opinions so he dissented no otherwise than as one Divine does from another and had never descended to censure any of them Perhaps of this point you may have heard the contrary but I have it under his own hand The second mistake is that he admonish't me of this point for he never descended to any particular and this you might understand as partly the other out of my Dedicatory of my Ratio villicationis written to him and presented in his lifetime The third that I had fore-prepar'd my Book of the Middle State and presently sent it him For the reason of my composing it was the many popular noises rais'd against me by persons some ignorant some malicious as if I were an Heretick which forc't me to write the Treatise in mine own defence and I dedicated it to my Lord though I knew no particular Exception of his against this point but judged he might have some because the greatest cry was against it The Translation as far as came to my knowledge was not made by any design upon earth though by the event I perceive it was out of speciall Providence in Heaven How things passed on your side and what were the true motâ—ves of your publishing the Bull and that Testimony of the Council I can onely collect from the phaenomena of all concurrent circumstances of which you may perhaps hereafter hear more You say the Publishers of the Bull had no respect to the Letter of Vindication I think you aym at one I wrote in Latin to a Person of Honour which was presented Him and by him shew'd to some Jesuits that frequented his House and they can be witnesses of the Truth between us This afterwards as I hear was translated into English and printed If this be the Letter you speak of I would gladly understand why you imagin the Author conceits himself inspir'd with the Genius of Mont-alt whose spirit I confess I take to be very solid and pious and generously adhering to persecuted Truth Nor do I find it unlawfull that any should wish to be inspir'd with it but truly conceive my self far below the hope of such Excellences What you heard well observ'd that all the Protestant Divines of England would subscribe to the same Protestation which is in that Letter I beleeve purely upon your report But tell me first may a Catholick protest nothing that a Protestant will subscribe to or can a Protestant profess nothing but what he will perform Again will any Protestant profess to renounce any Doctrin found to contradict any Authority constantly acknowledg'd for Infallible in the Catholick Church meaning the same by Catholick Church as my writings declare me to do that is all those who adhere to Tradition Will any Protestant be content to have lost his cause if any decree of a Pope be expresly repugnant to him which I there also profess How maliciously blind then was the observer you follow who could not see such distinctive expressions How uncharitable your self who catch at and magnifie every rash cavill out of a tooth to disgrace and abuse him that never did you injury Your calumny of my denying Decrees of Popes and Councils shall be answer'd in its due place You say the Publishers intended not to enter into the lists of Disputation which I easily beleeve and that they were perswaded the very reciting the Bull and Canon would have knockt down the Book which you say was the occasion of their setting them forth beyond all Reply How weak a conceit was this for men that saw both Bull and Canon cited and explicated in that very book and could not be ignorant that in many private Conferences the same Authorities had been debated You thought your Capitall Letters would have dazled the understanding of the adverse party so that none would have dar'd to look further into the meaning of those Authorities But God provided that al should not be so light of belief nor his Church led into Error by such a misgrounded Interpretation of its Decrees You complain much in your tenth Section that this pious intention of the Dispensers was wrong'd As though you did not know that Intentions are secret and must expect their reward from him that sees the heart Men judge of Actions and your self confess the effect was that pious that is credulous persons received satisfaction that is were seduced into Errour by that cuning practice and yet you think it not occasion enough for an understanding man to discover so prejudiciall an Interpretation forc't on the Church and would needs have it a wrong to you that one unknown not intended to be hurt by you should take this pains as if every honest and ableman were not interessed in the Churches quarrell of so high a nature as to set up an Opinion that may prove when examin'd erroneous for an Article of Faith In your eleventh Section you begin to produce your Arguments whereof the first is that all Orthodox writers who have treated this Subject of the State of separated Souls since the promulgation of the Bull a foresaid suppose it as a certain Truth But how many such do you cite Surely of five hundred which have written since those dayes your Readers might civilly expect at least half a score that positively assert it as an assur'd doctrin of the Church But such is the irregular way of discoursing your eminent Scholars use that when they have audaciously advanc't a proposition whereof they know nothing certain if it be deny'd against all Rules of Discourse and Logick they put the Defendant to prove the contrary which peradventure concerns not him a pin whether it be true or no As in the present what concerns it my Faith whether many or few interpret the Bull and Councill as you or I say To make a new Article of Faith the definition must be so clear that none can doubt of it And ipso facto that it needs Interpretation 't is evidently insufficient to make a new obligation of Faith Again suppose your Antecedent be true does any number of Interpreters lock up the understandings of those that follow that they may not see more than their Fore-goers If you say yes shew us some seal of Infallibility in their foreheads by which we may know so much or else your Faith will be but probable but a peradventure I peradventure no and Interest or Passion must supply the rest And such I beleeve is your Faith of this your new-born Article though somewhat an older Opinion In your twelfth Section you enquire into the state of the Question and when you have recited it out of the Bul you presently cry Victory without ever looking into the words and sence that one may note in you the wonted disposition of your great Masters to read the words but seldom take pains to understand them The Bull then sayes that in the dayes of the Popes Predecessor there rose a Question
the terms of the definition Your self cannot but observe he severally phrases the Question as sometimes whether Souls perfect in charity see God immediatly sometimes in other words attending to the sence as sober and intelligent Writers should do not standing upon terms as dodging Sophisters do Look but into the Testimonies which your self cite and indeed what all Historians and Divines report and see whether they do not unanimously agree that this was the Question I think I may after so much evidence excuse the answering of your Adversary's Argument drawn from the Pope's so pious recommends of Holy desires for since the Question is not chang'd but by you mistaken and pitifully not understood and that your whole solution relies upon that defect His Argument remaines in its full strength Onely I will ask your pardon if I presume to direct you in the example of the Entychians and Monothelites You argue thus when the Church combated the Eutychians it did not onely define the plurality of wils against the Monothelites c. what you would say I cannot tell If that the Church defin'd both the plurality of Natures and Wills you discover too much Ignorance for it defin'd onely the plurality of Natures If that it defin'd onely the plurality of natures not of wills you say right but it comes quite crose to your intention which strives to prove that something is defin'd by connexion not formally set down in the Definition Wherefore your Discourse seems to me imperfect and perplext Now then I may fairly proceed to your fifteenth Section where again I meet with Eymericus but because he either sayes no more than the Bull or obliges not so much I shall agree with you that he is a grave and learned Authour without contending any farther about what conduces so little to our main Conclusion Onely give me leave to note this defect in him where he sayes these points were made of Faith by this Bull If that be his meaning t was a great weaknes in a writer so neer those times and living when the noyse was not yet ceas'd For if the truth of these Articles were not known before this Bull what reverence was it in the whole Christian world publikly to term the Pope an Heretick and preach against him even in the Court of Avignon as an Englishman of Eymericus his order by name Thomas Wallis did and was imprison'd for it No these points were the constant Tradition of the Church and this Bull serv'd not to bring in a new Faith but to quiet the world and by Authority to quell the spirits mov'd by John the 22th In your sixteenth Section you pass on to the Council of Florence but it's definition being exactly according to the Bull there is no hope of any new advantage to your cause from thence Yet you will try again though with the same Argument and we beg your Readers patience if we repeat the same Answer First you cite the Council that some Souls are purg'd by the punishments of Purgatory after their body's death Which would have seemd very little to the purpose your Adversary professing the same had not you long before laid a snake in the grass to use his sting when occasion should serve which here you begin presently adding that this can find no admittance in your new modell For all the suffering of Soules which you fancy by their irregular and now unchangeable affections avail nothing as to the purging and cleansing of Soules c. Now I see why you neglected my book of the middle state and what I write of it in my Sacred Institutions that you might freely slander the Catholick truth I teach about Purgatory to those who know no more then what you cited out of a treatise of philosophy where there was no intention to speak either of purgatory or in deed Christianity But because you will dilate your self as I suppose more largly herafter I will deferr the question till then You will have your Adversary observe that when the Council in the fourth Article declares that Souls which are purg'd being uncloth'd of their bodies are immediately received into heaven this doctrine by the Parenthesis of as is abovesayd is wholly built upon the former Doctrin of the Purging it self And I Sir would desire you to note that because neither in the third nor in the fourth Article any time of compleating the Purgation is express'd or insinuated that your note is nothing to your Purpose nor doth any way conduce to shew a complete Purgation of them while uncloathed And this though it were true that a Purgation by punishment in Purgatory were against your adversary which is a pure conceit of your own brain You proceed to an Antiparallel of the Councels Doctrin to ours and to manage it the better you most freely assume what you finde not in the Councell I mean these words being purged uncloath'd of their bodies which signify in plain English that the purgation is perfected while they remain yet uncloathed The equivalent of which sence if it bee not in the Council as all my endevours cannot find it I must perforce protest that as I should be content you wrong'd me to do the Council right so to slander the Council that you may wrong me is a thing unsufferable in any much more in a religious Person In the parallel you give for my side you put a vast grief by reason those pleasurs are now impossible to be enjoy'd Shew this in all my books ever apply'd to the Soules in Purgatory and carry the question if you cannot consider what you make me suffer among them who believe you You desire your adversary farther to note that sunt purgata is the preter perfect tense and show that the purgation is pass'd And are you so unadvis'd as not to know the Council speaks as well of the Souls to go out of their bodies the following ages as in those before so that this being pass'd must stay in some even to the day of Judgment by your own explication After this you seek farther into the roots of the Council even from its beginning at Ferrara But as far as I see you are not very expert in the story For at Ferrara was deliver'd to the Fathers of the Council a long oration by Marcus Ephesius who would never consent to the Councils resolutions about Purgatory But his action concerns not us much so we understand the meaning of the main body of the Greeks whose propositions when you have recited you infer 't were absurd to deny that the question of Purgatory was here disputed and defined by which you discover a great mind to play soul but your fingers are not nimble enough to carry it hansomly you craftily would perswade the incautious Reader that we deny'd Purgatory but then you spoil all by putting a wrong term for truly the question of Purgatory was not disputed but from the beginning agreed on by both sides but a question concerning Purgatory
that is whether there were true fire in it was debated and so for any thing the Council says or I know it may be debated still Of the other points exprest in the decree of the Council there was an agreement without debate betwixt the generality of the Greeks and the Latins You go on pronouncing that in these professions both sides agreed against us directly and home to our point in question without expressing in what or bringing any proof of it For your self have before confest we hold both expiation and delivery and the onely question betwixt us is whether before the day of Judgment this expiation end of which though the very precise point we contend about you still have the ill luck to fall short you offer sometimes indeed to rack your Testimonies to confess what you desire were not the words too faithfull to their Speakers sence to be corrupted by you but if they will not do in Latin you have a trick to turn them into English and piece them our with stuff of your own making their sence to be this their present delivery whilst uncloth'd this you say the Council intended to deliver as the Faith of the Church in this both the Greek and Latin Fahers clearly agreed and yet plainly the conclusion I sustain was neither agreed to nor debated nor question'd if I be truly accus'd as the first Inventer of it nor so much as mention'd You conclude it must be an act not of understanding but of will to say presently signifies at the day of Judgment Truly it would be so and in the mean while 't is an act of ill will to impose on your Adversary that he sayes it Now a word to the discourse of an eminently learned Divine which you mark with the letter C. And for his learning I have nothing to say why it should not be eminently above yours but for his wyliness he is far short of you and if any thing corrupt his Judgment it is self-conceit and down-right passion his unhappy humors that strangely abound in him But I cannot omit to note in you that you had not the luck to give his Paper a convenient title but printed it just as he had written it for his own memory The entrance of his discourse is very good But his first proposition concerning the matter plainly and unexcusably mistaken for he sayth the matter in dispute betwixt the Latins and the Greeks was what Souls were admitted or to be admitted to eternal Beatitude before the day of Judgment A question that neither you as far as I can guess nor we ever found in this Council Neither do I remember to have met with such a gradation of Saints in any Author Therefore I leave this great Doctor to prove that there ever was such a question mov'd His next leap though he calleth it this question yet is quite from the question in hand being whether there be fire in Purgatory or no Which how it appertains to his mainly proposed question I leave to better wits to consider But I gather that this Paper was onely private notes not written in a form to be printed and that you have done very indiscreetly and to his dishonour to expose them to the publick He puts next the Latins position in which you who cannot pardon your Adversaries sloath in perusing of the Council omit a sentence most pertinent of any thing to the cause to wit that he who hath committed many offences is freed after a longer time of purgation but he who hath committed a few is sooner delivered which particularity had it been in the decision of the Council would have been something to the purpose and saved you the labour of corrupting the Council by your additions But I must note that this eminent man useth this phrase in this world and in the next for before the day of Judgment and after not as I think by affectation but by negligence which still more confirms me that the whole draught were but private notes and not fram'd for the print He goes on to give the variety of opinions concerning their going to Heaven in which he sayes the Greeks imagin that the Souls of just men have indeed obtained Beatitude but not perfectly and that they shall perfectly enjoy it when they shall be reunited to their bodies which position so far by his leave is common also to some principal Latin Fathers He adds that the Greeks say that in the mean while they remain in a separated place where they interiourly rejoyce entertaining their thoughts with the fore-seen and fore-known perfect Beatitude and adoption which is prepared for them But in the conclusion he seems to say that after many disputations the Greeks came to the ensuing resolutions which are well known In which he slaunders the Greek Church for it was but a part of them that maintained this last mention'd position upon the like Testimonies as John the two and twentieth did amongst the Latins so you see that his master piece for which he esteems himself so highly to wit to understand what the opinion of the Eastern Church was is a meer illusion bred out of the reading some Schismaticks works whom he took to be the mouth of the Greek Church For the Greeks themselves who at Rome write against Hereticks Profess that the Faith of the Greeks concerning Purgatory is contain'd in their Euchologies Ritualls which are ancient and used both by Catholicks and Schismaticks For as to their writers if you read one you know not who else will agree with him So various and irregular are their explications Now if their Ritualls and Euchologies be not more express then the Latins for your opinion you will easily see what will become of you there being not one word of delivery before the day of Judgment but all that is any way express referr'd thither which you are pleased to neglect though it be the publick profession of the Church and to seek birds-nests in the bushes of probable Authours Next then your eminently learned man makes his reflexions upon the word presently just as wisely as you perswading himself that we think the natural and formal signification of it is at the day of Judgment and insisting upon it because it is added onely to this member As if the reason were not evident to wit because the time was to be set down uncertainly onely in this member Presently therefore signifieth as soon as purg'd whensoever that be according to the variety of opinions He goes on to tell us that neither Greeks nor Latins doubted of the delivery of Souls at the day of Judgment which is very true and therefore also they put no more down He adds that the sole difficulty was of the precedent time as both their declarations do manifest But this manifestation was made in his learned brain for in the text there is no sight of any such contest betwixt them But it appears that the Greeks held their tongues about it and
prudently foyl'd you in every encounter in this Question that he hath left nothing for me but to discover your falshood in such by-questions as you thrust in to stuff out your Volume FOURTH DIVISION Containing an Answer to his seventeenth Section The Authours Doctrin of Councils explicated This new opinion of Purgatory in likelihood later than Saint Gregory IN your seventeenth Section you first put upon me that I am arm'd against the Authority of Popes and Councils and then you run headlong on with declamatory invectives upon that supposition But as the world is curious I conceive some will light on my defence as well as on your calumny to whom I thus explicate the true state of the question It is known to all Christians that Christ and his Apostles taught the world the Christian faith It is known to all Catholicks that this same faith has continued in the Catholick Church now fifteen ages It is known to the same that the means of continuing this faith hath been by Pastours and Fathers teaching their Children what themselves had learn'd by the same way It is likewise known that in divers ages there arose up divers Hereticks who endeavour'd to bring in Doctrins contrary to the received Faith and that Bishops sometimes in particular especially the Bishop of Rome sometimes in Collections or Councils with-stood and confounded such Hereticks confirming the old belief and rejecting all new inventions It is evident that to do this it fuffices to have veracity enough to attest what the old Doctrin was and power enough to suppress all such as stir against it Thus far all goes well Of late Ages among our curious School-men some have been so subtle that the Old faith would not serve them but they thought it necessary to bring in new points of Faith and because what was not of Faith could not become of Faith without a new revelation they look't about for a new revelation and finding the two supreme Courts of Christian discipline seated in General Councils and the Pope they quickly resolv'd to attribute the power of encreasing Christian Faith to these two Springs of Christianity Now the first difference betwixt the two parties engag'd in the present controversy is whether the Faith deliver'd by the Apostles be sufficient to govern the Church by or there be necessary fresh Additions of such points as cannot be known without a new revelation In which they whom I follow hold the negative they whom I suppose you follow the affirmative Out of this question springs a second whether in the Councils and in the Pope is to be acknowledg'd a Prophetical kind of Spirit by which towards the ordinary government of the Church they have a gift to reveal some things not before revealed nor deducible out of things already revealed by the natural power of discourse which God has left to mankind to govern it self by In which point also I follow them that deny you and your eminent learned men stand up for the Affirmative I hope by this any ingenious Reader will perceive that if the Faith deliver'd by Jesus Christ joyn'd with the natural power of discoursing be sufficient to govern the Church of God then those who give power to Councils and Popes sufficient to govern by this way give them as much as is necessary for the Church But if new Articles be necessary to the government of the Church then and onely then they fall short So that no understanding person reading these lines can doubt but the true question is this whether the Faith deliver'd by Christ be sufficient for the government of the Church or that we must expect new additions to our Faith every age or when occasion presents it self Whence it will easily appear that all the great noyse you make and furious Rhetorick you use of my denying the Authority of Councils my being arm'd against them and such like angry stuff are but uncharitable uncivil and highly injurious clamours without any true cause or ground at all But we shall hear more of these hereafter Now any prudent Christian that shall with moderate attention have read but so far will judge the question already decided For who dare maintain Christ's Doctrin was imperfect And indeed all that have any little modesty on your side will not say new Articles of Faith are necessary but that whatsoever the Church defines was before revealed though when they come to declare themselves they demand really new Articles onely calling them Explications of the former or Deductions from them And if they would justify that they were but such Deductions as natural reason can deduce there would remain no controversy which in very deed the Churches practise shews to be the truth In the first Council it being recorded that there was Conquisitio magna and all Councils and Popes ever since proceeding in the same style But here I must remember you what you said in the beginning concerning Pargatory that the reason why you write against my opinion was because it was translated into English And so I now protest that you are the cause why I write of this subject in English My books generally are to debate what I think in the points I write of with learned men whose care it is to divulge truths to the people dispensing to every one the quantity he is capable of not to raise any new thoughts in ignorant heads Your crying out against me forces me to a necessary defence before the people wherefore if any disputings concerning this matter displease any person of Judgment let it light upon your head who are the provoker and compeller of me into this new task which both age and other thoughts make me slowly and unwillingly undertake But I must not be mine own chuser but follow God As to what you say against this Doctrin first you desire your Reader to consider that if these grounds to wit that the Pope and the Council can err without distinguishing in what either matter or manner of proceeding Christian Faith is a meer mockery I confess the proposition grave in words but in sence not worthy a School-boy For first I ask you whether you mean in necessary points or unnecessary ones If you say in both I doubt your whole School will desert you For who is there that hath an ounce of brains who will give authority to the Church to determin all the subtle quirks of the School But if you say onely necessary ones then before you went farther against me you should have prov'd that the verities come by inheritance from Jesus Christ are not all that are necessary which question you never think on and so brandish your Logick against the apparitions in the clouds Secondly I ask you whether without counsel or with it If you say without it again your School will desert you If you say with it I ask you how much counsell and to what period In all which you will be at a loss Must it hold till by reason they
against Grammar against Logick and against Divinity and if this be not accepted of you cry the Church has err'd Your Interpretation is against Grammar by your own confession complaining of your Adversary for demanding an Is or Is not which is a plain acknowledgment that your sence is not formally in the words It is against Logick because you put the subject to be part of the predicate Against Divinity because you would make the grace of God and heavenly benefits be bought like Salads in the market by him that has most mony Besides other inconveniences whereof I have explicated some in my Book of the Middle State and may have occasion to say more hereafter And yet forsooth if this sweet Interpretation be not gratis admitted of the Church has err'd the Church has err'd and all 's undone well a day well a day You go farther and press that my rule of faith failes me in this very point And first you appeal to the consciences of all illiterate Persons whether this be not their present faith Yau have found out a Tribunal very fit to gain your cause in But I wonder you are so little skill'd in spirituall direction that you do not know most illiterate men never reflect upon their inward acts or farther then what belongs to the fancy not one amongst ten thousand And you deceive me if you hold faith to be an act of the fancy Yet I dare not be too bold for I have heard of one that wore a plush cloak and could neither read nor write Wherefore it is enough for me to deny it whether it be your opinion or no Besides do you not know that even literate Persons unless Divines are not to mince the doctrin taught them by their Pastours so far as to distinguish what is deliver'd for faith what as necessary to the explication of it or to the Practise of Christian life Further you may know that many even of your own eminent Divines differ not only in what points are of faith what not but in what makes them to be of faith what not Though I think they all agree that an explication against Grammar and Logick does not rayse a position into an Article of faith though the explication be of a Popes Bull Next you tell your adversary that Master White him self says Saint Gregory the great was the first founder of that faith I know well you accompt Master White a kind of a mad man that dares advance such propositions as he cannot but foresee what strong opposition they were like to stir up against him But I did not think he was so mad as holding no doctrin to belong to faith which began since the Apostles daies who are the last revealers of publik faith that he knows of and besides professing this doctrin so far from faith that it is not true yet should tell you that Saint Gregory founded this faith As far as I remember what I sayd was that Saint Gregory reported this novelty first broke out in his dayes by the means of certain revelations And this I sayd upon the authority of Venerable Bede who attributes the book of Dialogues to Saint Gregory But now I must tell you that upon fuller consideration I rather believe Venerable Bede's information was defective then to attribute so unworthy a book to so grave and learned a Pope nothing like such winter tales as are told in that book being found in his most worthy and learned works And I will make your self whom I know a great admirer of that learned and pious Doctour Judg of the controversy Do you think there is in the next world Excommunications and restorings to communion as is exprest in one of those Revelations Do you think that one who dy'd obstinate in schism was sent to Purgatory because he did many Alms as is reported in another Revelation do you think it is not the fancy of an Idle brain to imagin Souls are sent to bathes to scrub and rub men there to be acquitted of their sins Other things there are in the same book worth the noting but these are enough to shew it unworthy of St. Gregory as indeed it is for so great a Doctour and Prelate to spend his time in gathering together private storyes of obscure and petty Relaters This will set this Doctrin an hundred years later and into an age one of the least cultivated since the beginning of the Church of God Nor is it true that this carries after it a practise testified by Foundations Prayers Masses Almes c. For all these were in the Church before this Doctrin as may appear in Antiquity The Church of Afrik made a Canon to force the laity to contribute to Prayers for the dead about Saint Austins time who yet testifies that the question whether Souls were deliver'd out of Purgatory before the day of Judgment had not yet been moved Now Foundations contradict this Doctrin rather then promote it For he that makes a Foundation intends it without limit of time and so must imagin the Soul needs the assistance of that charity so long which would much cool the devotion you pretend and we see practis'd before our eyes to get Masses enow in a morning to send a Soul to Heaven to dinner Shew me but one ancient Instance where two or three thousand Masses have been by Legacy procur'd to be said the very next morning after the Testator's departure and little or nothing after that morning and I will ingenuously confess it the best argument you have produc'd in the whole managing of your cause After the Author of the Dialogue there was no more news of this opinion till Odilo a Monk of Cluny's time who being a kind of a Generall of many Monasteries dilated this Doctrin in them upon a goodly ground to build a matter of Faith on to wit the report of a French Pilgrim who sayd he had met with an Hermite I think a French man who perswaded himself he had Visions of Souls being deliver'd out of Purgatory by the Prayers of the Monks of Cluny Upon this ground the good Saint recommended the devotion for the dead warmly to his subjects and they to the people who frequented their Monasteries and hence this Doctrin came to be common where his order was in esteem And so being a pious credulity stay'd about one hundred years till the School began Which finding it very common easily favour'd it with such reasons and explications as they thought fit though not universally for some are found to have contradicted it and so it was exalted to a probable opinion In which state the Council of Florence found it and practis'd it giving communion 'to the Greeks who as is before declar'd left it out of their confession after the Latins had put it in theirs And in this quality it persever'd till my book de medio statu was turn'd into English Then it began first to be a matter of faith by the power of the great letters
redemption of their friends out of Purgatory which I believe are those you speak of that hear not of this Doctrin without horrour Therefore Acute Sir you will or may see that your Argument is two edged and as the Auditours you speak of did not distinguish the degree of assent to this position from that they give to Faith so neither do they make any difference between it and the sleightest assent they have Thus may your Adversary by your Argument conclude any practise of the Church or common opinion of Preachers or generally receiv'd Ecclesiasticall storyes nay even the new holy dayes to be points of faith as well and as easily as you do this What difference of assent think you do the People make between these truths that there was a Saint Philip or Saint Jacob and that there was a Saint Bennet or Saint Augustin they hear of these far oftner then of those and seldom or never of the severall degrees wherein they are recommended to their assents Even the more prudent in many such points run currently on with an undistinguishing assent till something jog their thoughts and awaken them to look into the business then they begin to make it a question to examin and sift it and at last to settle it in its true box of Catholick or Theological or Historical faith or of some other inferiour assent You go on to perswade your Readers that those who accept of this Doctrin do it through comfortable apprehensions in lieu of great horrours before they were in and because it eases their consciences from the incumbent care of assisting their dead friends In the first you manifestly shew you understand not the Doctrin of your own Divines for we agree in the grievousness of the punishments or if we disagree in any thing it is that mine is the severer For the difference of our positions is not in what the punishments are which we both agree to be acts of the will Our difference is whether these acts of the will be caused by the force of nature in spirits as I say or by the force of material fire as your Divines maintain Which was the cause why when I explicated the nature of Hell in a Divinity lecture one of my Scholars told me I made Hell worse then it was For in truth the force of a material body is not to be compared to the strong activity of a subsistent spirit as any Divine will easily guess In your other point you seem to have fram'd your conceit out of conversation with Women and Children whose desires are violent at the instant but soon pass away and not out of the consideration of men whose counsels are govern'd by a far prospect and aym at perpetuity So you flatter poor Women with the hopes of relieving their friends the first morning or the first Saturday or in some speedy time and get present monies fit to make merry with for one day never reflecting that the ancient and manly charity for the dead was to establish Foundations and perpetual Anniversaries by which the memory of our friends and prayers for them was often renew'd and long continu'd whereas taking your Principles we need neither much fear the terrours of Purgatory nor seek new wayes to ease our Consciences from the incumbent care of assisting our departed friends since one Mass at a priviledg'd Altar will do the work alone and a very little sum of mony procure that Mass without going to the cost of Dirige's and such like chargable Offices And here I must ask my Readers my Adversary's leave to correct one suspition I had unawares entertain'd that Interest might have some influence upon the Defenders of this short stay in Purgatory I was deceiv'd and now I see they are no wayes accusable of that odious crime anciently great alms were given and those often repeated for the assistance of one Soul and so the Church and Church-men gain'd much and grew rich apace Now there is open'd a far cheaper way one piece alone and that of silver too dispatches the business Surely out fair and numerous and rich Monasteryes were not built and endow'd with such petty Contributions After this you proceed to the arraignment of me before my Bishop or a Nuncius Apostolicus But there want two things to make your arraignment good first that the people be inur'd to Tradition and to prefer the received Faith of the Church before all other Doctrins From the danger of which your Divines will secure me while they teach the People that the Church when it is sayd to be inerrable signifies the Pope alone that all the People may err that General Councils have no strength till they be seal'd by the Pope and so I shal have this help to appeal from them to the Pope let my Doctrin be as opposit as it will to all that hath been hitherto the belief of the Christian world The second thing that wants to the perfect arraignment is that you have not yet found out so weak a Bishop that will believe a Doctrin sprung from uncertain Visions foster'd by unlearned zeal and strengthen'd with an Exposition of a Council or of a Popes Bull against the rules of Grammar Logick and Divinity is the belief of the present Church In the mean while I give you great thanks both for your setting forth my plea against Luther and honouring it with so high an approbation that it thunders and lightens home For besides that the knowledge of that form of proceeding against Hereticks is very necessary it will give me a testimony that I am a good Christian and if I be not a very beast I have not committed an errour to fall under so gross and so well fore-seen a Censure To the charge it self from what I have already said you may gather my clear and full Ansver that the Doctrin I sustain is not by me pretended to be of faith but onely not against faith as also that the doctrin I oppose is not and Article of faith and supported by Fathers and Monuments of Antiquity and immemorable Custome but onely an Opinion not very ancient nor ratify'd by the consent of Fathers nor of so long a standing that it's beginning is not well enough known perhaps the later yet for its time as much prevailing doctrin of priviledg'd Altars may live to be as old as this is now and as common too will it therfore deserve to be put into our Creed or can it ever become an Article of faith which the whole Church professes is but an Opinion now And are not these differences betwixt Luthers case and mine whom you so charitably endevour to parallel sufficient to distinguish our dooms Examin them but once more and I will make you my Judg. Onely forget not these words which your self put down as part of my method to convince an heretick That the Authority of things which wee stand bound to beleeve descends handed down from CHRIST our B. SAVIOVR and no otherwise
accuse your Adversary that he sayes you think such things promote souls in Holy desires though for my part I think it is a great reason of the use of them to make people be devout when otherwise they would not And for souls going to Heaven by them if they take away the pains of Purgatory with what face can you deny it I remember a Doctor of Divinity who having obtain'd a Scapular from the Carmes and a priviledg from the Jesuits to be admitted a Jesuit at the hour of his death was as confident to go directly to Heaven as if he had had a Patent for it under Jesus Christs own Hand Why then are you so touchy as if there could not be abuses in these things why cannot you be patient in this case as well as the Church is content to admit some abuses to have crept even into the administration of the Sacraments Your last note I believe is quite mistaken for I do not conceive your Adversary intended to make any comparisons both because he does not specifie any particular man to whom he should be suppos'd to compare me and because there is no occasion for it But peradventure he would not have the good life of any man be an Argument to bear down a contrary Doctrin For my self I profess no exemplarity If my life be such as may not unbeseem my Calling I have as much as I desire from men neither do I see any reason why any one should engage for me supra id quod videt in me I pray let not opinion-quarrels break into Personal dissentions Si invicem mordetis invicem consumemini To the same uncharitable end I fear tends your often repetition of diminishing words to those persons who think well of me or my Doctrin insisting especially on their small number but I pray you tell me how many you think have impartially and attentively read these few Books I have made I believe in proportion to them it is not a small number who profess to have met in many points with great satisfaction nor do I expect they should in all I may sometimes be mistaken my self and there I desire none to follow me others may sometimes be mistaken in me and there I am so far from being followed that my obscurity which I confess a defect will not let me be found Nor do I see so much cause to be troubled at the fewness as to bless God for the qualities of those who profess to have found good in my writings being Persons both ingenuous and vertuous and of such frank and unbyassed Principles as well by their own inclination as the influence my way may have had upon them that I am confident they desire nothing more then to see my Doctrin thorowly examin'd and speedily brought to a fair impartial Tryal by the sharpest Arguments that a pertinent opposer can make and indeed they themselves have been the strongest though not the fiercest Objectors I have met with One reason possibly of this little number may be that my Books have not as yet been long enough in the World to be fully perus'd by many what time may produce God onely knowes to whom I submit it But to return to my self and speak to what you dislike in me you absolve me from being an Heretick to make me a Pagan Nor will I refuse to be what you shall please when you have explicated your self But this not marking nor understanding your own words makes all the misintelligence You make me a Pagan but such an one as acknowledges Christ and every word and tittle either of the Scripture or any other Law of his Such a Pagan such a Naturalist was never heard of before Will you have me give you an Instance take this Bull and Canons which you cite and put them to my self or your Adversary and see whether we will either refuse to subscribe or even swear to them Then our Paganisus lyes in this that we do not think you have the right sence And this is my Paganism thorough all things belonging to Christian Faith You say I agree onely in words with the Church but saying so you say I agree in words and by consequence the whole disagreement is about the sence of the words In which controversy because I proceed out of Philosophy and reason and you out of what Masters Dictatts I know not you leave a great prejudice that my explication is the more reasonable Wherein consists then my Paganism Because I pretend to demonstrate what you think is not to be known but by Faith Then if I do not pretend to demonstrate but onely profess that they are demonstrable and exhort men to seek out the Demonstrations which is the true case and what you add is out of the fulness of your heart why do I not hold all the Articles by Faith and where is my Paganism But suppose some great Scholar possibly or impossibly as the Schools speak should have the demonstration of the Articles of Faith would he therefore be a Pagan sure you never thought what a Pagan signify'd when you spake so cholerick a word That peradventure might make him more then a man or more then a Christian as a Comprehensour is if it reach'd to Gods Essence less it could not make him Faith is not desirable for its Obscurity but for its Certainty We govern our lives by knowing the objects not by the defect in the knowledge Let a man see his way by the clear Sun and sure he will be as able to walk in it as by the dimmer light of a Star But you complain I reduce the mysteries of our faith to our narrow brains Sir you are mistaken It is the quite contrary you should rather accuse me of endeavouring to dilate our brains to the capacity of the mysteries by the help of Faith Why God cannot elevate our brains to understand what he hath deliver'd us to be understood You have not yet declar'd to my capacity You say when you are told Souls are not purg'd in the state of separation but at the reuâ—ion though the word remains your Faith is gone I easily believe you speak from your mind and that truly you apprehend the explication you frame to your self is your Faith and so that as many Christians as fancy divers explications of the same Article have so many faiths but by this way I see very few in the whole Church would be of the same faith 'pray consider a little that reflexion Nothing is more clear then your next Example You say you believe that Faith Hope and Charity are infused by the Holy Ghost into our Souls in Baptism A Pope and a generall Council too declar'd that of two opinions of Divines this was the probabler and by saying so said this was not the faith of the Church and yet if this be not true your faith is gone Your next Example is to the same purpose that supernatural qualities are of a different series then nature