Selected quad for the lemma: faith_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
faith_n	church_n	heresy_n	schism_n	4,424	5	10.0782	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A82002	A sober and temperate discourse, concerning the interest of words in prayer, the just antiquity and pedigree of liturgies, or forms of prayer in churches : with a view of the state of the church, when they were first composed, or imposed. Together with a discovery of the weakness of the grounds upon which they were first brought in, or upon which Bishop Gawden hath lately discoursed, the necessity of a liturgie, or the inconveniency of altering the English liturgie, the utility of church musick, and the lawfulness of ceremonies : in which are mixed reasons justifying those godly ministers, who forbear the use of the Common-prayer, against the late out-cryes of the said bishop. / By H.D. M.A.	H. D. (Henry Dawbeny); Collinges, John, 1623-1690, attributed name.	1661 (1661)	Wing D449; Thomason E1086_14; ESTC R208152	100,305	119

pretend that the diversion is greater in conceived Prayer by the employment of the mind in prompting the tongue what it should say next besides that this is a spiritual employment of the mind within it self neither doth it require any such study where the heart is right with God and so acquainted with the Word and Promises of God as every reasonable Minister ought to be VI. Nor is it out of the way to consider whether this method of Book-praying will not expose the Ministers of the Gospel to a perfect contempt amongst the people who will certainly conclude their Parson not able to do what every ordinary Christian doth Of which contempt we have had a plentiful experience nor do we believe that any thing hath so contributed to our breed of Lay-preachers as our Stinted forms of prayer Whilst the people have apprehended their gifts better than their Ministers an easy temptation hath served them to usurp their Office Nor will any Minister longer keep his authority amongst a knowing people then by his performances of his Office they shall be convinced he is higher in gifts than themselves For rational people will not sacrifice a blind faith to the Bish of Exeter magnifying the forms of prayer in the Common-prayer-book beyond all measure but will be enquiring wherein their excellency lies Are they more perfect Summaries of things to be confessed or to be petitioned for Is their phrase more scriptural c. or if they do see an excellency in them it will be hard to informe them that the gift of reading is more admirable in their Minister at Church then in their servant at home VII Now if the Universal imposing of any forms upon the aforementioned considerations appear unlawfull of it self or in regard of some necessary or certain consequent there needs no more be said to prove that men should have made use of some other means in order to those good ends of preventing errors and the mischiefs arising or possible to arise from a negligent and ignorant Ministry to the Church of Christ VIII But suppose the use of this means lawful yet if Reason might then dictate unto them that applied this means That it was never like to effect its end and Experience hath since taught posteritie that upon the experience of 80. years it hath proved ineffectual certainly the very light of Nature should have taught the first imposers to have used some other means and will yet direct us who have the advantage of experience in this to excel out Fore-fathers IX It may put the rational world into a fit of astonishment to consider that so many Bishops should think that the imposing of formes of prayer would ever contribute any thing to cure the ignorance or negligence of the Clergy when in very deed it was the right way to feed both and to continue these scabs upon the Church for ever For a man to be able to compose a prayer fit for a congregation requires no lesse then a very competent skill in the whole body of Divinity and a very large knowledge of the Scriptures which would have ingaged Ministers to study the Scriptures and to stir up their gifts But when they had once thus provided for them there needed no more skil for a Parson then every ordinary person had viz. an ability to read the written prayers It is true they had yet some work to do in preaching but this was soon taken off their shoulders by adding still formes of prayer the reading of which should require such a length of time that no roome was left for Sermons or it there were Homilies came quickly after which would serve the turn So that these imposed Liturgies in stead of serving their end in curing the ignorance or negligence of Minist●●s did most wretchedly serve to fill the Church with ignorant and lazy persons yea and debaucht too for now the Ministers work was ready and he might stay at the Ale-house till Saturday and yet be as fit for his work or at least do as much the next day as was required of him which was not only miserably exemplified in the Popish Church til Erasmus his time and the beginnings of reformation when they began by the Protestants opposition to be quickened to a little better attendance to their work but is at this day sufficiently evident as to the generality of their Priests to say nothing of the liberal experience of it which our own Nation hath afforded X. Nor certainly could just reason dictate it a proper or adequate means to prevent or restrain Errors and Heresies for how should this ever do it shall preaching by a form imposed be superadded to praying or shall there be forms of prayer imposed for the Pulpit as well as the Desk These certainly had been too grosse impositions If not had not the Ministers as much liberty to vent their Errors in their Pulpit-prayers as they would have had in the Desk or in their Sermons as in their prayers But then people would have apprehended they say that they vented their own conceits not the doctrine of the Church And would they not far better have apprehended this if the Minister had only been enjoyned to read a perfect Systeme of the doctrine of Faith summarily drawn up Such was the wisdome of the Councel of Nice in the case though indeed that Creed be far from a perfect Systeme This no sober Minister would have scrupled Besides Heresies are commonly the issue of Schismes and experience hath told the world that nothing ever so contributed to the breeding of Schismes in the Church as imposed formes of prayer have done So contrary hath it appeared to the Sensus communis of Christians in all times that the Ministers of the Gospel should be restrained in the gift of prayer I say in all times since the Reformation of the Church nor would the Popish Church have ever been able to have imposed theirs so long upon the people if besides that Fire and Sword which alwaies attends his Holinesse is commands in case of disobedience they had not wisely kept the people from the sight of the Scriptures or from the hearing of any Sermons almost For nothing but the peoples ignorance could have secured this devotion so long And no sooner came the light of knowledge amongst the people but many of them either saw or thought they saw that this kind of Praying was not all that God required of his Ministers And in those Churches where were forms of prayer though translated into an intelligible tongue there were continual Factions and Separations from that which they called the Church and more in England then else-where because no reformed Church had such a Liturgy nor so imposed XI But suppose the imposing formes of prayer lawfull and that it had effected its end done something to prevent Errors Heresies and some mischiefes which from the Ignorance and Negligence of Ministers might have come upon the Church If yet the mischief coming

Tradition no Universal Tradition no Example of the Purer Primitive Churches for more than 400. yea 700 years after Christ which can be pleaded for imposed Forms of Prayer by any that make any conscience of their words or will undertake to prove what they say CHAP. IV. An Enquiry into the state of those Churches which first commended or imposed Lyturgies at the time when they first made such Impositions I. THough it may seem absurd to enquire whether the gray hairs of Lyturgies be found in the way of Righteousness when we have evinced that they have no such pretended Antiquity and Age to glory in and that the Assertors of such Antiquity for them do but impose upon the world yet considering what we remember we have learned out of Aristotle That there is a youthfulness in respect of Age or in respect of Manners and Conditions It may be worthy of a further enquiry Whether yet there may not be such a necessity of them or such a comliness beauty and gravity in them as may not only justifie Magistrates in the imposing of them but oblige every soul that hath ought to do with reason to fall in with the use of them yea passionately to desire them even as much as Rachel did children which we shall the better determine by reviewing the first occasions of Lyturgies and the complexion of the Church in those ages when they were first made or most used II. I think we may say of Lyturgies as Christ said of the Bill of Divorce which Moses allowed Moses verily for the hardness of your hearts gave you a Bill of divorce but from the beginning it was not so He that had a residue of Spirit as the Prophet saith made one for one The Church played Moses his part in the business of Forms of Prayer Christ who had a residue of Spirit the Spirit given him without measure imposed no Forms of Prayer upon his Ministers or Church The Apostles who had the first and most plentiful powrings out of the Spirit of Grace imposed no such things Christ indeed gave a more general direction to his People in Prayer to ask things according to the Will of God and in his Name and more particular directions in that excellent Form called the Lords Prayer but that as Durantus idly saith either Christ or his Apostles used the Lords Prayer ordinarily as a Form of words in Prayer or that the Apostles used a Form of words to express their Faith ●r imposed the Creed commonly called but hardly to be proved their 's which the same Author asserteth must certainly be proved out of some such Canonical Writings as the Epistles of Christ to Abagarus or to Paul and Peter for there is no authentick Record of any such things but in process of time indeed the Church began to do some such things III. The highest mention we can find is that thin Synod of the Church of Laodicea made up of 32 Bishops and this whatever Bishop Hall saith according to Longus cannot be proved as we said before to have been before the year 364. as to which time Balsamon and Caranza agree it but truly it had been no great wonder if this Church which many years before was grown neither hot nor cold Rev. 3.17 but in such a temper that God was ready to spue it out of his mouth for which we have an authentick record in the Revelation should long before this time have made such a Salve and prudent Prouision for the Laziness of her Ministers He that shall read the Canons of that Synod against the Ministers hanting Taverns and using Inchantments as also the other Canons about exorcising and the several Officers and Offices of the Church will see reason enough to conclude the woful corruption of the Church in those parts if not to suspect that it was of a far lower date than is pretended IV. The Synod of 40 Bishops at Carthage which was the 3d. Synod of Carthage only enjoyned Ministers to communicate to their more able brethren their Prayers composed for their publick Congregations this was in the year 397. Yet that the face of the Church at this time had many spots and much impurity cleaving to it may appear by this Synod by their 6th Can. against giving the Lords Supper to or Baptizing such as were dead by their many Canons 17 25.27 against Clergymen hanting Taverns and keeping scandalous company with women their 30. Can. against jovial Meetings in Churches their 36 Can. about the Chrisma or the anointing Oyl which no Presbyters must make And that this Synod consisted not of the most infallibly wise Fathers appears by their Learned 29 Canon where they take pains to decree that every Minister should give the Sacrament of the Altar so it seems they had learned to call the Lords Supper fasting Yet this Synod in the business of Prayer did not think fit to restrain every Minister only having so loose and insufficient a Clergy they order the weaker sort having composed Prayers to confer their Notes before they used them cum fratribus instructioribus with their more able Brethren V. After this the Council of Mela Anno 416. grew more bold and ordain as to their Province for what authority had they further that the Ministers should use no Prayers but such as that Synod had approved They might justly expect that the Churches under their inspection would hardly swallow this new Pill if it were not lapped up in some good Reason and therefore they give their reason for it lest somthing should be vented against the true Doctrine of Faith either by some Ministers negligence or ignorance The cause of that Synods Meeting was the censuring of Pelagius that great enemy of Grace The Errors which Pelagius had broached were these 1. That Adams should have died though he had never sinned 2. That Infants were born without Original sin 3. That there is no need of he assisting Grace of God sin being once pardoned 4. That all the need we have of Grace is to illuminate us in the knowledge of Gods Commandments 5. That the Grace of God only helpeth us to do his will more easily and freely 6. That the words of St. John If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves were only figuratively true not literally 7. That the Saints praying Forgive us our Trespasses was appointed them in the behalf of others not themselves Or 8. If for themselves only as an expression of their humility not concluding them to have any sins to be forgiven Against these Errours that Reverend Synod made their 8 first Canons Pelagius having used diverse Arts the story is too long to insert to secure his Doctrine from a publick Censure had far diffused the poyson of this Doctrine This Reverend Synod observing his Errors to be in such things as are the daily matter of Ministers Confessions and Supplications thought fit for the prevention of the diffusing this Venom by Ministers in their publick prayers as also

means who first translated the Service-Book into English c. there are so many thousand Ministers to be found now in England who are able to speak unto God before people as well and orderly as if they did read those Forms Is it not so to the Schoolmaster who by dictating Forms of Theams and Epistles and Orations teacheth his Boyes to make as good and better than his were in 9 or 10 years time Surely it were rather a reproach to the Schoolmaster so to inure his Boyes to Forms that when they are Masters of Art they must still have Forms dictated to them without which they can do nothing XVI Nor would the alteration of this Lyturgy and not imposing any blemish the Judgment of our whole Church our Kings Princes Parliaments c. Their Judgment was excellent as to those times In King Edward his time the Clergy were generally Popish and had they been left to Liberty would certainly have used the Mass or else such persons as were of mean parts most of them Anglice docti such as the necessity of those times required because better could not be had In Qu. Elizabeths time the state of the Nation at least in the beginning of her Reign was little better witness the Record which Archbishop Parker left and is yet to be seen in the Library of Corpus Christi Colledge in Cambridge of all the Ministers in his Province and their several abilities where are 20 Anglice docti such as understood no Latine for one that hath a Character for any Learning see upon him this man was Archbishop in the Second year of Qu. Elizabeth Undoubtedly it was an Act of rare Judgment for the Parliament then to impose Forms of Prayer nor was it likely that suddenly the whole Nation would be reformed so well that with any security or prudence the Ministers could be left at liberty Since the time of Qu. Elizabeth no Parliament medled with it King James indeed reformed it in part and declared his Judgment for it King Charles of Glorious Memory in his Meditation upon the Lyturgy though indeed he judgeth an imposed Lyturgy lawful and this as to the main very good yet declareth his readiness to have consented to amend what upon free and publick advice might seem to sober men inconvenient as to matter or manner by which it appears that his Majesty judged incapable of amendment both as to Matter and Manner XVII But it is a great Riddle to us how the amending of the Lyturgy and not imposing any universally should damp and discourage the zeal of the greatest and chiefest part of the Nation who find much pleasure and profit in the use of it For if it be still left at liberty to them if they please to use the old Forms how is their Zeal damped or discouraged by the liberty which others take It is a fiery Zeal in men certainly that must needs have all others to be of their humour as to the use of Forms of words in Prayer If by zeal the Bishop means the Fury of people against those who durst not use those Forms the God of Heaven more damp and discourage that zeal which we are sure is not according to knowledge If the greatest and chiefest part of the Nation be so zealous in this case doubtless if they be left to liberty people will generally fill in with those Ministers that do use it and there will be an ingenuous conformity which is alwaies best for a little experience will convince the furious ones of this age that Religion is a thing that must instillari not intrudi as Beza somtimes said a thing to be gently instilled and commended not bluntly and forcibly intruded and compelled Our Bishops in this point may give counsel effectual to the filling of Goals undoing of many thousands and procuring their cries unto God against them but never effectual to accomplish their designs if indeed their designs be to bring all to an uniformity in this thing But they very well know that if it be left to liberty to Ministers to use or not use the Lyturgy that experience will quickly make it appear that the greater part of more knowing and zealous people are not so enamoured upon it as they proclaim them to the world to be XVIII In the next place he tels us The Reformed part of Religion cannot be well preserved in England without it to any flourishing and uniform estate Immediatly before he told us Religion could not any where be planted without a Lyturgy Both of them Propositions of equal truth If Religion could not be planted without a Common Prayer-Book it is a wonder that the Apostles and Pastors of the Primitive Churches missed this only means For what Lyturgy was ever heard of in the Church for 400 years after Christ the great planting time if the Reformation of Religion cannot be preserved without a Lyturgy imposed or this Lyturgy alas for the Churches of God in Scotland Holland France Genevah If they have a Lyturgy how unlike is it to this Nor is it imposed nor the use of it by penalties compelled yet blessed be God the Reformation in those Churches is not less perfect than ours not less firmly preserved Let their Confessions of Faith be read or their printed Books against the Papists be read and compared with ours and let all judge What singular thing then is there in the Constitution of men and women in England that Religion in its Reformed part cannot subsist without the authoritative imposing of a Lyturgy taken out of the Roman Missal as to the far greater part Surely none will say it is because the Reformed Party of England have a more reverend opinion of Pope Gregory and the present Church of Rome than the Reformed Party in other Nations hath This indeed were a shameful reproach to the Church of England Let her Enemies lay it to her charge but let her true Sons spend their time in covering such nakedness VVe must know the Bishop's Reasons before we can believe any truth in this especially when we know that those Ministers and people who are most zealous against Popery are most averse to this Lyturgy XIX The Bishop instanceth in the matter of the Sacrament telling us Popery can never come in while the Form of Consecration prescribed in the Book of Common Prayer which is most ancient and excellent is used We must ingenuously confess that some Forms of Prayer prescribed to be read at the administration of the Lords Supper are very good and pious but we are much of his mind who said Nihil ego puto a quovis praescriptum tam exacte quin addi aliquid possit aut perfectius reddi a quovis qui ministerio dignus Altare Damasc P. 6 13. ad docendum vel movendum affectus nam facile est addere inventis praescriptis licet forte nihil exactius dari posset tamen languet oratio ubi non est verborum varietas nec prorumpunt

but noises signifying nothing onely a sound strikes their ears And these things being first received under a species or shew of piety by degrees came to that that there was neither end nor measure of Psalms Songs Anthemes Dirges c. that we might see they made proficiency And which is yet more grievous Priests are more strictly tied to these things then to the commands of Christ To hear this the people must be constrained to leave their labour with vvhich they must maintain their wives and children what can be more sacred Let Churches have their solemn singings but moderate But we that are imployed in private affairs must be also compelled to these things and carry about a quire with us in Ships Coaches c. And from the observation of these or the neglect of them we are judged godly or ungodly Let a man be a greater worldling then Crassus a greater reviler then Zoilus yet is he accounted a devout man because he sings service well although he understands nothing of it I beseech you vvhat do these men think of Christ who think he is pleased with such roarings of voice Nor are they content with this but we have also brought into Churches a laborious and theatrical musick a tumultuous pratling of divers voices such a one as I think was never heard upon any stage amongst the Graecians or Romanes All places roar with Trumpets Pipes Cornets Dulcimers and with these mens voices are mixed Love songs and other filthy songs to which vvhores and mimicks dance are heard People run to Church as to a stage to tickle their ears and for this use are bred Organists and Choristers and maintained at great charge children's age is spent in learning such pratling while in the mean time they learn nothing that good is A rabble of sorbid and light persons is bred and the Church is loaded with the maintenance of them and that too for a pestilent imployment I beseech you do but count how many poor people ready to famish might be maintained with the salaries of these Singing-men These things do so please them that among the Brittains especially the Monks do nothing else Those vvhose singing should be mourning think God is appeased with their lascivious neighings and moveable throats For this purpose also boyes and striplings and Artists in singing are bred up amongst the Brittains for the nonce forsooth to sing a fine-tuned Song and so play a lesson on the Organs to the holy Virgin-Mother And the Bishops are constrained at their houses to breed up and maintain such Choristers And the Monks wholly taken up with these things never understand any learning nor any thing in which true Religion consisteth Now those that have thick-pates and cannot learn Musick think they do not do their duty on an holy-day if they do not use a scurvy kind of singing which they call Jauburdum that neither recites any thing prescribed nor keeps any harmony of Art Add to this that whereas sober Musick was brought into the Church that the thing Sang might more affect the hearers mind they think it a brave thing if one or other of them can roar or bellow so loud that none can hear a word In this they indulge fools affections and provide for their own bellies Why should these things onely please us which Paul would have sparingly used according to the fancy of little ones yea which St. Paul would never have indured he speaks of Sacred reading not of Stage-play-singing Let us sing in the spirit but let us sing Christian-like let us sing sparingly rather let us sing with the heart let us speak with tongues but seldom let us prophecy more studiously Let rather be heard the voice of the Preacher reproving the conscience comforting the dejected quickning drousie souls opening the Sacred Spirits mysteries and let tender age be rather spent in these things Thus far that learned man though a professed Papist concerning the usefulness of our Cathedral Musick and singing after he had had a large experiment of it XXIV To shut up this Discourse We say That Musick is an excellent Gift of God that God under the old dispensation of the New Covenant appointed it to be used in his worship as prefigurative saith Aquinas Willet Zepperus of our making Melody in our hearts to the Lord under the Gospel or of that sweet peace of Conscience which flows to the Soul upon the exercise of Faith in Christ Or rather as one of those Carnal Ordinances which the Apostle saith the first Temple had Heb. 9. as they also had terrene and earthly Promises as Aquinas saith In the time of Reformation by Christ neither he nor his Apostles used or appointed any nor did the Primitive Church Justin Martyr in his time accounted it Judaizing so did Aquinas within these 500 years So that it is a perfect Innovation without any pretence of Institution or any ancient Tradition grossely abused to wantonness and Superstition The Magdeburgenses tell us Ambrose was against all Musick any where pudicitia gratiâ because he saw it served for lust for the most part To maintain the use of it the Church revenue were consumed in nourishing singing Boyes and singing men Choristers Masters of Musick Organists and many of these were and are prophine beastly persons and no profit at all arose from it but the peoples understanding confounded with insignificant noises and their ears only tickled with air People came to Church saith Erasmus as to a Stage-play and went away ordinarily saith Hospinian assoon as the Musick for which alone they came was over Infinite Sums of money were spent about Organs Zonaras tels us that Michael Emperor of Constantinople made Organs of Gold and Bruschius in his Discourses of the Monasteries of Germany tels us of an Abbot that made a pair of Organs whose greatest Pipe was 28 Foot long and 4 Spans about Upon all these considerations and after all this experience and the joynt Suffrage of all Protestants and many sober Papists in condemning this course what shall we say to hear a Protestant Bishop pleading for them and fastning such a charge as he doth upon all those that would have them removed out of the Church VVe can say nothing but The Lord lay it not to his charge Chrastonius Polonus in proxi de Cerem car Missa thef 41.42 XXV Andreus Chrastonius a Polonian who is cited by Didoclavius in Alt. Damasc c. 8. thus determines in this case It ordinarily comes to pass that peoples ears once accustomed to this Musick disdain to hear the Word of God and those things which the Church ought to have repeated with the mouth for a testimony of her Faith and for Edification are committed to dumb and irrational Organ-pipes With the Mouth not with Trumpets c. is Confession made to salvation Whence it is that Divines teach that these things hinder not profit Priests according to the Order of Melchisedech That they are more fit for the Aaronical Order