acknowledge her a true Church as a theif is a true man who will not acknowledge her to be a pure Church much less most pure God be mercifull to poor worms this boasting doth not become us it is not unlike hers who cryed Is it as a Queen and shall see no sorrow I wish you begin to be sensible and ashamed of it But yet I fear it is otherwise for whereas in your Fiat you had proclaimed your Roman Church and Party to be absolutely innocent and unblameable you tell us pag. 10. of your Epistle that you can make it appear that it is far more innocent and amiable than you have made it more than absolutely innocent it seems a note so high that it sounds harshly And whereas we shall manifest your Church to have lost her native beauty we know that no painting of her which is all you can do will render her truly amiable unto a spirituall eye She hath too often defiled her self to pretend now to be lovely But to this you say I reply The Church that then was in the Apostles time was indeed true not the Roman Church that now is and adde So so then I say that former true Church must fall sometime or other when did she fall and how did the sall by Apostasie Heresie or Schisme S r you very lamely represent my Answer that you might seem to say something unto it when indeed you say nothing at all I discover unto you the equivocation you use in that expression the Church of Rome and shew you that the thing now so called by you had neither being nor name neither essence nor affection in the dayes of old it s very being is but the terminus as quem of a Churches fall I shewed you also that the Church of old that was pure fell not whilest it was so but that the men who succeeded in the place where they lived in the profession of Religion gradually fell from the purity of that profession which the Church at its first planting did enjoy But all that discourse you pass by and repeat again your former Question to which you subjoyn my first Answer which was it was possible she might fall by an Earthquake as did those of Colosse and Laodicea to which you We speak not here of any casuall or naturall downfall or death of mortals by Plague Famine or Earthquake but a morall and voluntary lapse in faith What do you speak to me of Earthquakes It is well you do so now explain your self your former enquiry was only in generall how or by what means she ceased to be what she had been before as though it were impossible to assign any such neither did I exclude the sense whereunto you now restrain your words And had I only shewed you that it was possible she might fall and come to nothing and yet not by any of the wayes or means by you mentioned without proceeding unto the consideration of them also yet your especiall enquiry being resolved into this generall one from whence it is taken how a pure flourishing Church may cease to be so I had rendred your enquiry useless unto your present purpose though I had not answered your intention For certainly that which ceaseth to be ceaseth to be pure seeing non entis nullae sunt affectiones The Church of the Brittains in this part of the â—sland now called England was once as pure a Church as ever was the Church of Rome yet she ceased to be long since and that neither by Apostasie Here sie nor Schisme but by the sword of the Saxons And to tell you the truth I do not think the old Church of Rome unconcerned in this instance then especially when Rome was left desolate by Totilas and without inhabitant for the Church of Rome is urbis and not as you vainly imagine orbiâ— Ecclesia Again I told you she might fall by Idolatry and so neither by Apostasie Heresie or Schisme To which you reply Good S r Idolatry is a mixt misdemeanour both in faith and manners I speak of the single one of faith and he that falls by Idolatry if he keep still some parts of Christianity entire he falls by Heresie by Apostasie if he keep none I am perswaded you are the first that ever gave this description of Idolatry and the last that will do so it is a mixt misdemeanour in faith and manners Manners you speak of in contradistinction to Faith and you so explain your self in which sense they relate only unto morall conversation regulated by the second Table That Idolatry hath been and is constantly attended with corruption in manners the Apostle declares Rom. 1. and I willingly grant but how in its self or its own nature it should come to be a mixt misdemeanour in faith and in manners I know not neither can you tell me which is the fleshy which is the fishy part of this Dagon what it is in it that is a misdemeanour in faith and what in manners According to this description of yours an Idolater should be an ill mannered or an unmannerly Heretick But you speak of the single misdemeanour in faith but who gave you leave so to restrain your enquiry I allowed you before to except against one instance whereby many a Church hath fallen but if you will except Idolatry and Manners also your endeavour to provide a shelter for your guilt is shamefull and vain For what you except out of your enquiry if you confess not to have been yet you do that it may be or might have been And you do wisely to let your Adversary know that he is to strike you only where you suppose your self armed but by all means must let your naked parts alone and doubtless he must needs be very wise who will take your advice The Church of Judah was once a pure Church in the dayes of David how came she then to fall by Apostasie Heresie or Schisme I answer if you will give me leave she fell by Idolatry and corruption of manners against both which the Prophets were protestants 2 King 17. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God protested against them by his Prophets Again the same Church reformed in the dayes of Ezra Nehemiah Zerubbabel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the men of the Great Congregation was a pure Church how did it fall not by Idolatry as formerly but by corruption of life unbelief and rejecting the Word of God for superstitious traditions untill it became a den of Thieves You see then there are other wayes of a Churches falling from its pristine purity than those by you insisted on And if you shall enquire how it may fall you must exclude nothing out of your enquiry whereby it may do so and whereby some Churches have done so And if you will have my thoughts in this matter they are that the beginning of the fall of your Church and many others lay in unbelief corruption of life conformity to the world and other sins
walk in the steps of their faith herein It believed that all Image-worship was forbidden Exod. 20. And whether you abide in the same perswasion we shall afterwards examine And many more instances of the like kind you may at any time be minded of You hast to that you would fain be at which will be found as little to your purpose as those whose consideration you so carefully avoid You say Did she fall by Heresie in adhering to any errour in Faith contrary to the approved doctrine of the Church Here you smile seriously and tell me that since I take the Roman and Catholick Church to be one she could not indeed adhere to any thing but what she did adhere unto S r I take them indeed to be one but here I speak ad hominem to one that doth not take them so And then if indeed the Roman Church had ever swerved in faith as you say she has and be her self as another ordinary particular Church as you say she is them might you find some one or other more generall Church if any there were to judge her some Oecumenicall Councell to condemn her some Fathers either Greek and Latin expresly to writs against her as Protestants now do some or other grave Authority to censure her or at least some company of Believers out of whose body she went and from whose faith she fell None of which since you are not able to a assign wherein you have spoken more rightly than you were aware of for not to be able to assign none of them infers at least an ability to assign some if not all of them my Query remains unanswered and the Roman still as flourishing a Church as ever she was Answ. 1. You represent my Answer lamely I desire the Reader to consult it in the Animadversions pag. 66 67 68. What you have taken notice of discovers only your fineness in making Heresie an adherence to an errour in faith contrary to the doctrine of the Church and your selves the Church whereby you must needs be secured from Heresie though you should adhere to the most hereticall Principles that ever were broached in the world But nothing of all this as I have shewed will be allowed you 2. As we have seen some of the Reasons why you were so unwilling to try the Cause of your Church on the heads of Idolatry and Apostasie so here you discover a sufficient Reason why you have passed over your other head of Schism in silence You avow your self one of the most schismaticall Principles that were ever adhered unto by any professing the name of Christ. The Roman Church and the Catholick are with you one and the same Is not this Petilianus his in parte Donati nay Basilides his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epiphan Heres 4. We only are men all others are Dogs and Swine Macte virtute If this be not to shew modcration and to persue reconciliation at once to shut out all men but your selves from the Church here and consequently Heaven hereafter what can be thought so to be In earnest S r you may talk what you please of moderation but whilest you avow this one wretched schismaticall Principle you do your endeavour to exclude all true Christian moderation out of the world 3. Why do you conclude that your Query is not answered Suppose one Question could not be answered doth it necessarily follow that another cannot I suppose you take notice that this is another Question and not that at first proposed as I told you before Your first enquiry was about your Churches crime this is about her conviction and condemnation and your Conclusion hath no strength in it but what is built on this unquestionable Maxim that None ever offended who was not publickly judged as though there were no Harlot in the world but those that have been carted It is enough S r that her condition is sub judice as it will be whether you or I will or no and that there is not evidence wanting for her conviction nor ever was since her fall though it may be it hath not at all times been so publickly managed And yet so vain is your triumphant Conclusion that we rest not here but prove also that she hath been of old judged and condemned as you will hear anon And thus I have once more given you an Answer to your enquiry how your Church fell namely that she hath done so by all the wayes and means by which it is possible for a Church to fall She failed under the just hand of God when the persons of that Vrbick Church were extirpated partly by others but totally by Totilas as the Brittish Church in England fell by the sword of the Saxons She hath fallen by Idolatry and corruption of life as did the Church of the Jews before the Captivity She hath fallen by her relinquishment of the written Word as the only rule of faith and worship and by adhering to the uncertain traditions of men as did the Church of the Jews after their return from captivity She hath fallen by Apostasie in forsaking the profession of many important truths of the Gospel as the Church of the Galatians did for a season in their relinquishment of the doctrine of Justification by grace alone She hath fallen by Heresie in coyning new Articles of faith and imposing them on the consciences of the Disciples of Christ as the Montanists did with their new Paraclete and rigid observances She hath fallen by Schisme in her self as the Judaical Church did when divided into Essenes Sadduces and Pharisees setting up Pope against Pope and Councell against Councell continuing in her intestine broils for some ages together and from all others by the wretched Principle but-now avowed by you as the Donatists did of old She hath fallen by Ambition in the Hildebrandine Principle asserting a Soveraignty in the Pope over the Kings and Potentates of the earth whereof I can give you no precedent instance unless it be of him who claimed the Kingdomes of the world to be his own and boasted that he disposed of them at his pleasure Mat. 4. And now I hope you will not take it in ill part that I have given you a plain Answer unto your Question which as I suppose was proposed unto us for that end and purpose But although these things are evident and sufficiently proved yet I see nothing will satisfie you unless we produce testimonies of former times to manifest that your Church hath been arraigned judged condemned written against by Fathers Councils or other Churches Now though this be somewhat an unreasonable expectation in you and that which I am no way bound unto by the Law of our Discourse to satisfie you in yet to prevent for the future such Ivasions as you have made use of on all occasions in your Epistle I shall in a few pregnant and unquestionable Instances give you an account both when how and by whom the falls of your Church have been
only and absolute head and Monarch of the Catholick Church which you would perswade us to believe that he is Kings then may even in Church affairs be strikers under him be the servants and executioners of his will and pleasure but Authority from God immediately in and about them they have none nor can have any whilest your Imaginary Monarchy takes place This one fundamental Principle of your Religion sufficiently discovers the insignificancy of your florish about Kingly Authority in Ecclesiastical things seeing upon a supposition of it they can have none at all But you stay not here for 3. You ascribe unto your Popes an universal Dominion even in Civil things over all Christian Kings and their subjects In the explanation of this Dominion I confess you somewhat vary among your selves but the thing it self is generally asserted by you and made a foundation of practice Some of you maintain that the Pope by Divine right and Constitution hath an absolute supream Dominion over the whole world This opinion Bellarmine Lib. 5. de Pont. cap. 1. confesseth to be maintained by Augustinus Triumphus Alvarus Pelagius Hostiensis and Panoruitanus And himself in the next words condemns the opinion of them who deny the Pope to have any such temporal power as that he may command secular Princes and deprive them of the Kingdoms and Principalities not only as false but as down right Heresie And why doth he name the first opinion as that of four or five Doctors when it is the Common opinion of your Church as Baronius sufficiently manifests in the life of Gregory the seventh That great preserver of your Pontificial omnipotency in his Bull against Henry the German Emperour affirms that he hath power to take away Empires Kingdoms and Principalities or what â—ver a mortal man may have as Platina records it in his life As also Pope Nicholas the second in his Epistle ad Mediolanens asserts that the rights both of the heavenly and earthly Empires are committed unto him And he that hath but looked on the Dictates of the forenamed Gregory confirmed in a Council at Rome and defended by Baronius or into their Decretals knows that you give both swords to the Pope and that over and over Whence Carerius Lib. 1. c. 9. affirms that it is the Common opinion of the School Divines that the Pope hath plenissimam Potestatem plenary power over the whole world both in Ecclesiastical and Temporal matters and you know the old comparison made by the Canonists cap. de Major Obed. between the Pope and the Emperour namely that he is as the Sun the Emperour as the Moon which borrows all its light from the other Bellarmine and those few whom he follows or that follow him maintain that the Pope hath this Power only indirectly and in order unto spiritual things the meaning of which assertion as he explains himself is that besides that direct power which he hath over those Countreys and Kingdoms which on one pretence or other he claims to be Feaudatory to the Roman See which are no small number of the chiefest Kingdoms of Europe he hath a Power over them all to dispose of them their Kings and Rulers according as he judgeth it to conduce to the good and interest of the Church which as it really differs very little from the â—ormer opinion so Barclay tells us that Pope Sixtus was very little pleased with that seeming depression of the Papal Power which his words intimate But the stated Doctrine of your Church in this matter is so declared by Bozius Augustinus Triumphus Carerius Schioppius Marta and others all approved by her Authority that there can be no question of it Moreover to make way for the putting of this indirect Power into direct Execution you declare 4. That the Pope is the supream Judge of faith and his Declarations and Determinations so far the Rule of it as that they are to be received and finally submitted unto not to do so is that which you express Heresie or Schism or Apostacy About this Principle also of your Profession there have been as about most other things amongst you great Disputes and wranglings between the Doctors and props of your Church Much debate there hath been whither this power be to be attributed unto the Pope without a Council or above a Council or against one About these Chimaera's are whole volumes filled with keen and subtil argumentations But the Popes Personal or at least Cathedral Determination hath at length prevailed For whatever some few of you may whisper unto your own trouble and disadvantage to the impeachment of his Personal Infallibility you are easily decryed by the general voice of your Doctors and besides those very persons themselves wherever they would place the Infallibility of the Church that they fancy are forâ—ed to put it so far into the Popes hand and management as that whatever he determines with the necessary solemnities in matters of faith is ultimately at least to be acquiesced in So your self assure us averring that he who doth not so forfeits his Christianity and consequently all the Priviledges which thereby he enjoyes and we have reason sufficient from former experience to believe that the Pope have he ability unto his will is ready enough to take the forfeiture Whither upon a Princes falling into Heresie in not acquiescing in your Papal determinations his subjects are discharged ipso facto from all obedience unto him as Dominicus Bannes and others maintain or whither there needs the Denunciation of a sentence against him by the Pope for their absolution you are not agreed But yet 5. You affirm that in Case of such Disobedience unto the Pope he is armed with Power to depose Kings and Princes and to give away and bestow their Kingdoms and Dominions on others Innumerable are the instances whereby the Popes themselves have justified their claim of this Power in the face of the world and it were endless to recount the Emperours Kings and free Princes that they have attempted to ruine and destroy in the persuit of some wherof they actually succeeded with the desolations of Nations that have ensued thereon I shall mention but one and that given us in the dayes of our Fathers and it may be in the memory of some yet alive Pope Pius V takes upon him contrary to the advice and entreaties of the Emperour of Germany and others to depose Queen Elizabeth and to devote her to destruction To this end he absolved all her Subjects from their Allegiance and gave away her Kingdoms and Dominions to the Spaniard assisting him to his utmost in his attempt to take possession of his grant and all for refusing obedience to the See of Rome You cannot I presume be offended with my mention of that which is known unto all for these things were not done in a corner And is it not hence evident that all the power which you grant unto Kings is meerly precarious which they hold of your Pope
Apostasie also For why must that needs be the notion of these termes in the division you made that you now express Is it from the strict sense and importance of the words themselves or from the Scripturall or Ecclesiasticall use of them or whence is it that it must be so and that it is so None of these will give you any relief or the least countenance unto your fancie Both 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in themselves of an indifferent signification denoting things or acts good or evill according to their accidentall limitations and applications It is said of some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they will depart from the faith 1 Tim. 4. 1. And the same Apostle speaking of them that name the name of Christ sayes let every one of them depart from iniquity 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 Tim. 2. 19. so that the word it self signifies no more but a single and bare departure from anything way rule or practice be it good or bad wherein a man hath been ingaged or which he ought to avoid and fly from And this is the use of it in the best Greek Authors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are such in Homer who are farre distant or remote on any account from any thing or place And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Aristotle things very remote To leave any place company thing Society or Rule on any cause is the common use of the word in Thucydides Plutarch Lucian and the rest of their companions in the propriety of that language Apostasia by Ecclesiasticall writers is restrained unto either a back sliding in Faith subjective and manners or a causeless relinquishment of any Truth before professed So the Jews charge Paul Acts 21. 21. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou teachest Apostasie from Moses Law Such also is the nature of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a speciall option choyce or way in profession of any Truth or Error So Paul calls Pharisaisme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 26. 5. the most exact heresie or way of Religion among the Jews And Clemens Alexandrinus Strom lib. 8. calls Christian Religion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the best Heresie And the great Constantine in one of his Edicts calls it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Catholick or generall Heresie and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the most holy Heresie The Latines also constantly used that word in a sense indifferent Cato faith Cicero est in ea heresi quae nullum orationis florem sequitur The words therefore themselves you see are of an indifferent signification having this difference between them that the one for the most part is used to signifie the Relinquishment of that which a man had before embraced and the other a choice or embracing of that which a man had not before received or admitted And this difference is constantly observed by all Ecclesiasticall writers who afterwards used these words in the worst or an evill sense so that Apostasie in this appropriation of it denotes the relinquishment of any Important Truth or way in Religion and Heresie the choice or embracement of any new destructive Opinion or Principle or way in the profession thereof A man then may be an Apostate by partiall Apostasie that is depart from the Profession of some Truth he had formerly embraced or the performance of some duty which he was engaged in without being an Heretick or choosing any new opinion which he did not before embrace Thus you signally call a Monke that deserts his Monasticall Profession an Apostate though he embrace no opinion which is condemned by your Church or which you think hereticall And a man may be an Heretick that is choose and embrace some new false opinion which he may coyn out of his own imagination without a direct renunciation of any Truth which before he was instructed in And this is that which I intended when I told you that your Church is fallen by partiall Apostasie and by Heresie Shee hath renounced many of the important Truths which the old Roman Church once believed and professed and so is fallen by Apostasie And she hath invented or coyned many Articles pretended to be of faith which the old Roman Church never believed and so is fallen by Heresie also Now what say you hereunto Why good S r in this division Apostasie is set to express a totall relapse in opposition to Heresie which is the partiall But who gave you warrant or leave so to set them It would it may be somewhat serve your turn in evading the Charge of Apostasie that lyes against your Church but Good S r will not prove that you may thus confound things for your advantage Idolatry is Heresie and Apostasie is Heresie and what not because you suppose you have found a way to escape the imputation of Heresie I say then yet again in answer to your enquiry that your Church is fallen by Apostasie in her relinquishment of many important truths and neglect of many necessary duties which the old Roman Church embraced and performed That these may be the more evident unto you I shall give you some few instances of your Apostasie desiring only that you would grant me that the primitive Church of Rome believed and faithfully retained the doctrine of truth wherein from the Scripture it was instructed That Church believed expresly that all they who die in the Lord do rest from all their labours Rev. 14. 8. which truth you have forsaken by sending many of them into the flames of Purgatory It believed that the sufferings of this life are not worthy of the glory that shall be revealed in us Rom. 8. 18. Your Church is otherwise minded asserting in our works and sufferings a merit of and condignity unto the glory that shall be received It believed that we were saved freely by grace by faith which is not of our selves but the gift of God not by works left any one should boast Eph 2. 8. Tit. 3. 5. and therefore besought the Lord not to enter into judgement with them because in his sight no flesh could be justified Psal. 130. 4. 143. 2. And you are apostatized from this part of their faith It believed that Christ was once only offered Heb. 10 12. and that it could not be that he should often offer himself because then he must have often suffered and died Heb. 9. 25. Which faith of theirs you are departed from It believed that we have one only Mediatour and Intercessour with God 1 Tim. 2. 5. 1 Joh. 2. 2. Wherein also you have renounced their perswasion as likewise you have done in what it professed that we may invocate only him in whom we do believe Rom. 10. 14. It believed that the Command to abstain from Meats and Marriage was the doctrine of Devils 1 Tim. 4. 1 2. Do you abide in the same faith It believed that Every soul without exception was to be subject to the higher Powers Rom. 13. 1. You will not
Scriptures could be of no more Authority then Aesops Fables were they not confirmed by the Testimony of your Church we are informed by one Brentius and we believe the information to be true because the saying is defended by Hosius de Authoritat Script Lib. 3. who adds unto it of his own Revera nisi nos Authoritas Ecclesiae doceret hanc scripturam esse Canoncam perexiguum apud nos pondus haberet the truth is if the Authority of the Church did not teach us that this Scripeure is Canomical it would be of very light weight unto us Such Cordial respects do you bear unto it And the forementioned Andradius Defens Con. Trid. Lib. 2. to the same purpose Neque enim in ipsis libris quibus sacra mysteria conscripta sunt quicquam in est Divinitatis quae nos ad credendum quae in illis continentur religione aliqua constring at sed Ecclesiae quae codices illos sacros esse docet antiquorum Patrum fidem pietatem commendat tanta inest vis amplitudo ut illis nemo sine gravissimâ impietatis nota possit repugnare neither is there in those books wherein the Divine Mysteries are written any thing or any character of Divinity or divine original which should on a religious account oblige us to believe the things that are contained in them But yet such is the force and Authority of the Church which teacheth thâ—se books to be sacred and commendeth the faith and piety of the Antient fathers that no man can oppose them without a grievous mark of impiety How by what means from whom should we learn the sense of your Church if not from your Council of Trent and such mighty Champions of it Do you think it equitable that we should listen to suggestions of every obscure Frier and entertain thoughts from them about the sense of your Church contrary to the plain assertion of your Councils and and great Rabbies And if this be the respect that in Catholick Countries is given to the Scripture I hope you will not find may of your Countrymen rivals with them therein It is all but Hayle and Crâ—cifie We respect the Scriptures but there is another part of Gods word besides them we respect the Scriptures but Traditions contain more of the Doctrine of Truth we respect the Scriptures but think it not meet that Christians be suffered to read them we respect the Scripture but do not think that it hath any character in it of its own Divine original for which we should believe it we respect the Scripture but yet we would not believe were it not commended unto us by our Church we respect the Scripture but it is dark obscure not intelligible but by the interpretation of our Church Pray Sir keep your respects at home they are despised by the Scripture it self which gives Testimony unto its own Authority Perfection Sufficiency to guide us to God Perspicuity and Certainty without any respect unto your Church or its Authority And we know its Testimony to be true And for our parts we fear that whilest these Joabs kisses of respect are upon your lips you have a sword in your right hands to let out all the Vitals of Divine Truth and Religion Do you think your general expressions of respect and that unto admiration are a covering long and broad enough to hide all this contempt and reproach that you continually poure upon the Scriptures Deal thus with your Ruler and see whether he will accept your Person Give him some good words in general but let your particular expressions of your esteem of him come short of what his state and regal dignity do require will it be well taken at your hands Expressions of the same nature with these instanced in might be collected out of your chiefest Authors sufficient to fill a volume and yet I never read nor heard that any of them were ever stoned in your Catholick Countreys whatever you intimate of the boyling up of your zeal into a rage against those that should go about to diminish it Indeed whatever you pretend this is your faith about the Scripture and therefore I desire that you would accept of this account why I cannot comply with your wish and not speak any more of Papists slighting the Scripture seeing I know they do so in the sense and way by me expressed and other wayes I never said they did so From the account of your Faith we may proceed to your Charity wherewith you close this Discourse Speaking of your Roman Catholicks you say the Scripture is theirs and Jesus Christ is theirs who will one day plead their Cause What do you mean Sir by theirs Do you intend it exclusively to all others so theirs as not to be the right and portion of any other It is evident that this is your sense not only because unless it be so the words have neither sense nor emphasis in them but also because suitably unto this sense you elsewhere declare that the Roman and the Catholick Church are with you one and the same This is your Charity fit to accompany and to be the fruit of the faith before discoursed of This is your Chatholicism the impaling of Christ Scripture the Church and consequently all acceptable Religion to the Roman Party and Faction down right Donatism the wretchedest Schism that ever rent the Church of God which makes the wounds of Christendome incurable and all hope of coalition in Love desperate Saint Paul directing one of his Epistles unto all that in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that no countenance from that expression of our Lord Jesus Christ might be given unto any surmize of his appropriating unto himself and those with him a peculiar interest in Jusus Christ he adds immediately both their Lord and ours the Lord of all that in every place call upon his name 1 Cor. 1. This was the old Catholicism which the new hath as much affinity unto as darkness hath to light and not one jot more The Scripture is ours and Christ is ours and what have any else to do with them what though in other places you call on the name of Jesus Christ yet he is our Lord not yours This I say is that wretched Schism which cloathed with the name of Catholicism which after it had slain it robbed of its name and garments the world for some ages hath groaned under and is like to do so whilst it is supported by so many secular advantages and interests as are subservient unto it at this day CHAP. 14. Of Reason Jews objections against Christ. PAg. 27. You proceed to vindicate your unreasonable Paragraph about Reason or rather against it What reason we are to expect in a dispute against the use of Reason in and about the things which are the highest and most proper object of it is easie for any one to imagine For by Reason in Religion we understand not meerly the Raâ—ocination
A VINDICATION â—F THE ANIMADVERSIONS ON FIAT LUX Wherein the Principles OF THE ROMAN CHURCH As to Moderation Unity and Truth are Examined And sundry Important Controversies concerning the Rule of Faith Papal Supremacy the Mass Images c. Discussed By John Owen D. D. LONDON Printed for Ph. Stephens at the Gilded-Lion in St. Pauls Church-yard and George Sawbridge at the Bible on Ludgate Hill 1664. Imprimatur Tho. Grigg R. in Christ. P. D. Humfr. Episc. Lond. à Sac. domesticis Decemb. 9. 1663. TO THE READER Christian Reader ALthough our Lord Jesus Christ hath laid blessed and stable foundations of Unity Peace and Agreement in judgement and affection amongst all his Disciples and given forth Command for their attendance unto them that thereby they might glorifie him in the world and promote their own spiritual advantage yet also foreknowing what effect the crafts of Satan in conjunction with the darkness and lusts of men would produce that no offence might thence be taken against him or any of his wayes he hath sorewarned all men by his Spirit what Differences Divisions Schisms and Heresies would ensue on the publication of the Gospel and arise even among them that should profess subjection unto his Authority and Law And accordingly it speedily came to pass For what Solomon sayes that he discovered concerning the first Creation namely that God made man upright but he sought out many inventions or immixed himself in endless questions the same fell out in the new creation or erection of the Church of Christ. The state of it was by him formed upright and all that belonged unto it were of one heart and one soul. But this harmony and perfection of beauty in answer to his Will and Institution lasted not long among them many who mixed themselves with those Primitive converts or succeeded them in their profession quickly seeking out perverse inventions Hence in the dayes of the Apostles themselves there were not only schisms and divisions made in sundry Churches of their own planting with disputes about Opinions and needless impositions by those of the Circumcision who believed but also opposition was made unto the very fundamental Doctrines of the Deity and Incarnation of the Son of God by the Spirit of Antichrist then entring into the world as is evident from their Writings and Epistles But yet as all this while our Lord Jesus Christ according to his promise preserved the root of Love and Vnity amongst them who sincerely believed in him entire as he doth still and will do to the end by giving the one and selfsame spirit to guide sanctifie and unite them all unto himself so the care and Authority of the Apostles during their abode in the flesh so far prevailed that notwithstanding some temporary impeachments of Love and Union in or amongst the Churches yet no signal prejudice of any long continuance befell them For either the miscarriages which they fell into were quickly retrieved by them the truth infallibly cleared and provision made for Peace Vnity and Moderation in and about things of less concernment or else the evil guilt and danger of them remained only with and upon some particular persons the notoriety of whose wickedness and folly cast them out by common consent from the communion of all the Disciples of Christ. But no sooner was that sacred Society 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with their immediate successors as Egesippus speaks in Eusebius departed unto their rest with God but that the Church it self which untill then was preserved a pure and incorruppted Virgin began to be vexed with abiding contention and otherwise to degenerate from its primitive original purity From thence forward especially after the heat of bloody and fiery persecutions began to abate far the greatest part of Ecclesiastical Records consists in relations of the Divisions Differences Schisms and Heresies that fell out amongst them who professed themselves the Disciples of Christ. For those failings errors and mistakes which were found in men of peaceable minds the Church indeed of those dayes extended her Peace and Vnity if Justin Martyr and others may be believed to such as the seeming warmer zeal and really colder charity of the succeeding Ages could not bear withal But yet divisions and disputes were multiplyed into such an excess as that the Gentiles fetcht advantage from them not only to reproach all Christians withall but to deterr others from the proâ—ession of Christianity So Celsus in his third Book deals with them for saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 At first when they were but a few they were of one mind or agreed well enough But being increased and the multitude of them scattered abroad they were presently divided again and again and every one would have his own party or division and as in a divided multitude opposed and reproved one another so that they had no communion among themselves but only in name which for shame they retain So doth he for his purpose as is the manner of men invidiously exaggerate the differences that were in those early times amongst Christians for he wrote about the dayes of Trajan the Emperour That others of them took the same course is testified by Clemens Stromat lib. 7. Augustin lib. de Ovib. c. 15. and sundry others of the antient Writers of the Church But that no just offence as to the truth or any of the wayes of Christ might hence be taken we are as I said before forewarned of all these things by the Lord himself and his Apostles as also of the use and necessity of such events and issues Whence Origen cryes out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Most admirable unto me seems the saying of Paul There must be Heresies amongst you that those who are approved may be manifest Nor can any just excception be hence taken against the Gospel it self For it doth not belong unto the excellency or â—ignity of any thing to free it self from all opposition but only to preserve it self from being prevailed against and to remain victorious as the sacred truths of Christ have done and will do unto the end Not a few indeed in these evil dayes wherein we live the ends of the world and the difficulties with which they are attended being come upon us persons ignorant of things past and regardless of things to come in bondage to their present lusts and pleasures are ready to make use of the pretence of divisions and differences among Christians to give up themselves unto Atheism and indulge to their pleasures like the beasts that perish Let us eat and drink for too morrow we shall dye Quid aliud inscribi poterat sepulchro bovis But whatever they pretend to the contrary it may be easily evinced that it is their personal dislike of that holy obedience which the Gospel requireth not the differences that are about the Doctrines of it which alienates their minds from the truth They will not some of them foregoe all Philosophical inquiries after the
God may be acceptably worshipped and themselves saved And why may I not plead the Cause of Protestancy against that imputation of demeric which you heap upon it Neither would I be thought to be any thing in Religion but what I am Neither have I any sentiments therein but what I profess But it may be you will say in some things I differ from other Protestants wisely observed and if from thence you can conclude a man unqualified for the defency of Protestancy you have secured your self from opposition seeing every Protestant doth so and must do so whilest there are differences amongst Protestants But they are in things wherein their Protestancy is not concerned And may I be so bold as to ask you how the case in this instance stands with your self who certainly would have your competency for the defence of your Church unquestionable Differences there are amongst you and that as in and about other things so also about the Pope himself the head and spring of the Religion you profess Some of you maintain his Personall Infallibility and that not only in matters of Faith but in matters of Fact also Others disclaim the former as highly erroneous and the latter as grosly blasphemous Pray what is your judgment in this matter for I suppose you are not of both these opinions at once and I am sure they are irreconcileable Some of you mount his Supremacy above a Generall Councill some would bring him into a Coordination with it and some subject him unto it though he hath almost carried the Cause by having store of Bishopricks to bestow whereas a Councill has none which was the Reason given of old for his prevalency in this Contest May we know what you think in this Case Some of you assert him to be de jure Lord of the whole world in Spirituals and Temporals absolutely some in Spirituals directly and in Temporals only in ordine ad Spiritualia an Abyss from whence you may draw out what you please and some of you in Temporals not at all and you have not as yet given us your thoughts as to this difference amongst you Some of you assert in him a Power of deposing Kings disposing of Kingdoms transferring Titles unto Dominion and Rule for and upon such miscarriages as he shall judg to contein disobedience unto the Sea Apostolick Others love not to talk at this haughty rate neither do I know what is your judgment in this matter This as I said before I am sure of you cannot be of all these various contradictory judgments at once Not to trouble you with Instances that might be multiplied of the like differences amongst you if notwithstanding your adherence unto one part of the Contradiction in them you judg your self a Competent Advocate for your Church in generall and do busily employ your self to win over Proselytes unto her communion have the patience to think that one who in some few things differs from some other Protestants is not wholly incapacitated thereby to repell an unjust charge against Protestancy in generall I have done with the two generall heads of your prefatory Discourse and shall now only mark one or two incident particulars that belong not unto them and then proceed to see if we can meet with any thing of more importance than what you have been pleased as yet to communicate unto us Pag. 5. Upon occasion of a passage in my discourse wherein upon misinformation I expressed some trouble that any young men should be entangled with the Rhetorick and Sophistry of your Fiat Lux you fall into an harangue not inferiour unto some others in your Epistle for that candour and ingenuity you give your self unto First You make a Plea for Gentlemen not once named in my Discourse That they must be allowed a sense of Religion as well as Ministers that they have the body though not the cloak of Religion and are masters of your own reason But do you consider with your self who it is that speaks these words and to whom you speak them Do you indeed desire that Gentlemen should have such a sense of Religion and make use of their reason in the choice of that which therein they adhere unto as you pretend Is this pretence consistent with your Plea in your Fiat Lux wherein you labour to reduce them to a naked fanaticall Credo Or is it your interest to court them with fine words though your intention be far otherwise But we in England like not such proceedings 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nothing dislikes us more than dissimulation And to whom do you speak Did I doth any Protestant deny that Gentlemen may have Do we not say they ought to have their sense in Religion and their senses exercised therein Do we deny they ought to improve their reason in being conversant about it Are these the Principles of the Church of Rome or of that of England Do we not press them unto these things as their principall duty in this world Do we disallow or forbid them any means that may tend to their furtherance in the knowledge and profession of Religion Where is it that if they do but look upon a Bible Furiarummaxima juxta Accubat manibus prohibet contingere mentes The Inquisitor lays hold upon them and bids them be contented with a Rosary or our Ladies Psalter Do we hinder or disswade them from any Studies or the use of Books that may encrease their knowledge and improve their reason And hath not the Papacy felt the fruits and effects of these Principles in the writings of Kings Princes Noblemen and Gentlemen of all sorts And do not you your self know all this to be true And is it ingenuous to insist on contrary insinuations Or do you think that truly generous Spirits will stoop to so poor a lure But you proceed This is one difference between Catholick Countreys and ours that there the Clergy man is only regarded for his vertue and the power he hath received or is at least believed to have received from God in the great Ministery of our Reconciliation and if he have any addition of learning besides it is looked upon as a good accidentall ornament but not as any essentiall complement of his profession so that it often happens without any wonderment at all that the Gentleman-Patron is the learned man and the Priest his Chaplain of little or no science in comparison But here in England our Gentlemen are disparaged by their own black Coats and not suffered to use their judgement in any kind of learning without a gibe from them The Gentleman is reasonless and the scribling Cassock is the only Scholar he alone must speak all know all and only understand S r if your Clergy were respected only for their vertue they would not be over burthened with their honour unless they have much mended their manners since all the world publickly complained of their lewdness and which in many places the
that were found in the most of its members And it is a fancy to dream of the purity of a Church in respect of its outward order when the power and life of godliness is lost in its members and a wicked device to suppose a Church may not be separated from Christ by unbelief whilest it abides in an externall profession of the doctrine of faith Such a Church though it may have a name to live yet indeed is dead and dead things are unclean We speak of its purity and acceptation thereon in the sight of God neither will men dead in trespasses and sins be terrible unto any as an Army with banners unless they are like those in Lucilius who Vt pueri infantes credunt signa omnia ahena Vivere esse homines sic isti omnia ficta Vera putant credunt signis cor inesse ahenis as Lactantius reports him But you say If they fall by Idolatry and yet keep any parts of Christianity they fall by Heresie But why so would you had thought it incumbent on you to give a reason of what you say Are Idolatry and Heresie the same Tertullian who of all the old Ecclesiasticall Writers most enlargeth the bounds of Idolatry defines it to be omnis circa omne Idolum famulatus servitus Any worship or service performed in reference to or about any Idoll I do not remember that ever I met with your definition of Idolatry in any Author whatever Bellarmine seems to place it in Creaturum aeque colere ac Deum to worship the creature as much or equally with the Creator which description of it though it be vain and groundless for his aeque is neither in the Scripture nor any approved Author of old required to the constituting of the worship of any creature Idolatrous yet is not this Heresie neither but that which differs from it toto genere We know it to be cultus religiosus creaturae exhibitus any religious worship of that whish by nature is not God and so doth your Thomas grant it to be Gregory de Valentia another of your great Champions contends that tanqnam Deo as unto God is to be added unto the definition As though religious worship could be given unto any thing and not as unto God really and indeed though not intentionally as to the worshipper Where a man gives religious worship there he doth ipso facto assign a divine eminencie say he what he will to the contrary Neither will his intention of not doing it as unto God any more free him from Idolatry than an Adultress will be free by not looking on her Adulterer as her Husband I confess he adds afterwards a distinction that is of great use for you and indispensably necessary for your defence de Idol lib. 2 cap. 7. S t Peter he tells us insinuates some worship of Idols cultum aliquem simulachrorum to wit that of the holy Images to be right or lawfull when he deterreth believers ab illicitis Idolorum cultibus from the unlawfull worship of Idols 1 Pet. 4. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This were somewhat indeed if all epithetes were distinguishing none aggravating or declarative When Virgil said dulcia mella premes Geor. 4. he did not insinuate that there was any bitter honey Nor is it allowable only for Poets to use explaining and declaring epithetes but Aristotle allowes it in the best Oratours also so they use not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 long or unseasonable ones or the same frequently and the use of this here by Peter is free from all those vices When the Romane Orator cryed out ô scelus detestandum O wickedness to be abhorred he did not intend to insinuate that there was a wickedness not to be abhorred or to be approved But if it will follow hence that your Church is guilty only of lawfull Idolatry I shall not much contend about it Yet I must tell you that as the poor woman when the Physicians in her sickness told her still that what she complained of was a good sign cryed out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 good signes have undone me your lawfull Idolatry if you take not better heed will undo you In the mean time as to the coincidence you imagin between Idolatry and Heresie I wish you would advise with your Angelicall Doctor who will shew you how they are contradistinct evils which he therefore weighs in his scales and determines which is the heaviest 22 ae q. 94. a. ad 4. The Church in the wilderness fell by its 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 its making and worshiping a golden Calfe as a representation of the presence of God That they kept some parts of the Doctrine of Truth entire is evident from their proclamation of a feast to Jehovah Do any men in their wits use to say this fall was by Heresie though all agree it was by Idolatry so that your Church might fall by Idolatry and not fall formally by Heresie according to the genuine importance of the word the use of it in the Scriptures or the definition given of it by the Schoolmen or any sober Writer of what sort soever And here I must desire you to stay a little if you intend to take Protestants along with you They constantly return this Answer unto you in the first place and tell you that your Church is fallen by Idolatry It is fallen in the worship which you give unto the Consecrated Host as you call it wherein if the Scriptures which call it bread and the Fathers who terme it the figure of the body of Christ if Reason and all our senses deceive us not you are as plainely Idolatrous as the poor wretches which fall down and worship a piece of Red Cloth So your own Costerus assures us Enchirid. cap. 8. Tolerabilior saith he est eorum error qui pro Deo solunt statuam auream aut argenteam aut alterius materis imaginem quomodo Gentiles Deos suos venerabantur vel pannum rubrum in hastam elevatum quod narratur de Lappis vel viva animalia at quondam Aegyptii quam eorum qui frustum panis colunt Their errour is more tolerable who worship a golden or silver Statue or an Image of any other matter for a God as the Gentiles worshipped their Gods or a ragge of Red Cloth lifted upon a spear as it is reported of the Laplanders or living Creatures as did the Egyptians of old than theirs who worship a piece of bread This is that which made Averoes cry out seeing the Christians eat the God whom they worship let my soul be among the Philosophers You do the same in your worship of the Cross which the chiefest among you maintain â—o be the same that is due to Christ himself And you are in the same path still in the religious adoration you give unto the blessed Virgin your prayers to her and invocations of her which abound in all your books of Devotion and generall practice And what need we mention any
is lawfull for him to depose Emperours I hope you will not be offended at the calling over these Heresies because the so doing is not suited to our present design I took them out of your Cardinal Baronius in the place above quoted who hath placed them as on a pillar V. D. P. L. P. where they may be easily read by all men And that you may not think that these were the Heresies of Gregory alone the same Baronius affirms that these Dictates were confirmed in a Synod at Rome whereby they became the Heresies of your whole Church Did Peter thus feed the sheep of Christ seeing Pasce oves meas is the great pretence for all these exorbitances Alas Hic alienus oves custos his mulget in horâ— all this is but the shearing milking and slaying of a stranger the shepherds being driven into corners But have these noisome Heresies of your Church think you passed without controll Was she not judged censured written against and condemned in the person of her chief Pastor You must be a very stranger unto all History if you can imagine any such thing A Councell assembled by the Emperor at Worms in Germany reckons up the miscarriages of this Hildebrand and pronounceth him deposed with all those that adhered unto him Another Synod an 1080. at Brixia in Bavaria condemns him also for the same causes All the Heroick Potentates of Europe especially the Emperors of Germany the Kings of England and France with whole Assemblies of their Clergy have alwayes opposed and condemned this branch of your Supremacy And to this purpose hundreds of their Laws Decrees Edicts and Declarations are at this day extant 4. Your Pope's Personall Infallibility with the requisite Qualifications is another Hereticall Opinion that your Church hath fallen by And herein you are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 condemned of your selves and we need no further witness against you you have been often taken 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the very fact I know there is an Opinion secretly advancing amongst some of you whereby you would cast out of the bounds of your defence this Personall Infallibility of your Pope but we have no more reason to esteem that opinion the Doctrine of your Church than we have to conclude that the Jesuits new Position asserting him Infallible in matter of fact is so And though I know not perfectly what your opinion is in this matter yet I may take a time to shew how utterly unserviceable unto your purpose the new way of the explication of Infallibility is For it hath but these two generall inconveniences attending it First that it is not the opinion of your Church Secondly if that be the only Infalliblity we are to rest on the whole claim of your Church and its interest therein falls to the ground both which I hope to have an opportunity to manifest In the mean time we take that for the Doctrine of your Church which is declared by its self so to be which is explained and defended by her most famous Champions And indeed you in your Fiat assert as I have shewed the Pope Personally to be an unerring guide which is that we enquire after Bellarmine tells us that all Catholicks agree in these two things 1. Pontificem cum Generali Concilio non posse errare in condendis decretis fidoi vel generalibus praeceptis morum That the Pope with a generall Councell cannot erre in making decrees of faith or generall precepts concerning manners 2. Pontificem solum vel cum suo particulari Concilio aliquid in re dubia statuentem sive errare possit sive non esse ab omnibus fidelibus obedienter audiendum All believers must willingly obey the Pope either alone or with his particular Councell determining in doubtfull matters whether he may erre or no. I confess if this be so and he must be obeyed whether he do right or wrong whether he teacheth truly or falsly it is to no great purpose to talk of his Infallibility for follow him we must whither ever he leads us though it should be to Hell And the Catholick Proâ—osition that he asserts himself is that Summus Pontifex cum totam Ecclesiam docet in his quae ad fidem pertinent nullo casu errare potest The Pope when he teacheth the whole Church can in no Caseerre in those things which appertain unto faith De Rom. Pontif. lib. 4. cap. 2 3. What a Blind that is of teaching the whole Church children can see The Pope can no way teach the whole Church but as he declares his opinion or judgement which may be divulged unto many as those of another man Let us see then how well they have made good this their Infallibility and how well their judgement hath been approved of by the Church of old I will not here mind you of the Decree fathered on Clemens wherein he determines that all things among Christians ought to be common and among them wives because I know it is falsly imposed on him though you may be justly charged with it who are the Authors of those forgeries whereof that is a part Nor shall I rake the Epistles which you ascribe unto divers of the Ancient Bishops of Rome that are full of ignorance errors and pittifull non-sence because they are questionless Pseudopigraphcall though you who own them may be justly charged with their follies Nor will I much insist on the Testimony of Tertullian in his Book against Praxeas that the Bishop of Rome owned the Prophesies of Montanus untill Praxeas perswaded him to the Contrary because it may be you will say that perhaps Tertullian spake partially in favour of a Sect whereunto he was himself addicted though for ought I know he is as sufficient a Witness in matter of fact as any one man upon the Roll of Antiquity But what say you to Marcellinus Did he not sacrifice to Idols which according unto you is a mixt misdemeanour in faith and manners Con. Tom. 1. Vita Marcell and therefore certainly a shrewd impeachment of his Infallibility and was he not judged for it What think you of Liberius did he not subscribe to Arianism Soomen tells you expresly that he did so Lib. 4. cap. 15. And so doth Athanasius Epist. ad Solitarios giving the reason why he did so namely out of fear And so doth Hierome both in Script Ecclesiast Fortunat. and in Euseb. Chron. Pope Honorius was solemnly condemned for a Monothelite-Heretick in the sixth generall Councell Act. 12 13. which Sentence was afterwards ratified by your own darling the second of Nice Act. 3 and Act. 7. and is mentioned in a decretall Epistle of Pope Leo the second So Infallible was he during his life so infallible was he thought to be when he was dead whilest he lived he taught Heresie and when he was dead he was condemned for an Heretick and with him the Principle which is the hindg of your present faith Neither did Vigilius behave himself one jot better in his Chair
The Councell of Pisa deposed Gregory the twelfth and Benedict the thirteenth for Schismaticks and Hereticks The Councell of Constance accused John the twenty third of abominable Heresie Sess. 11. And that of Basil condemned Eugenius as one à fide devium pertinacem Haereticum Sess. 34. an erroneous Person and obstinate Heretick Other instances of the like nature might be called over manifesting that your Popes have erred and been condemned as persons erroneous and therein the Principle of their In fallibility I would be unwilling to tire your patience yet upon your reiterated desire I shall present you with one Instance more and I will do it but briefly because I must deal with you again about the same matter 5. Your Church is fallen by Idolatry as otherwise so in that Religious Veneration of Images which she useth whereunto you have added Heresie in teaching it for a Doctrine of Truth and imposing the belief of it by your Tridentine Determination on the Consciences of the Disciples of Christ. I know you would fain mince the matter and spread over the corrupt Doctrine of your Church about it with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 silken words as you do the Posts that they are made of with Gold when as the Prophetspeaks of your predecessors in that work you lavish it out of the bagge for that purpose But to what purpose Your first Councell the second of Nice which yet was not wholly yours neither for it condemns Honorius calls Thâ—rnsius the Oecumenicall Patriarch and he expounds in it the Rock on which the Church was built to be Christ and not Peter your last Councell that of Trent your Angelicall Doctor Thomas of Aquine your great Champions Bellarmine and Baronius Suarez Vasquez and the rest of them with the Catholick practise and usage of your Church in all places declare sufficiently what is your faith or rather misbelief in this matter Hence Azorius Institut Lib. 9 cap. 6. tells us that Constans est Theologorum sententia Imaginem èodem honore cultu coli quo colitur id cujus est Imago It is the constant judgement of Divines that the Image is to be worshipped with the same honour and worship wherewith that is worshipped whose Image it is The Nicene Councell by the instigation of Pope Adrian Anathematizeth every one who doth but doubt of the Adoration of Images Act. 7. Thomas contendeth that the Cross is to be worshipped with Latria p. 3. q. 25. a. 4. which is a word that he and you suppose to express Religious worship of the highest sort And your Councell of Trent in their decree about this matter confirmed the Doctrine of that Lestricall convention at Nice whose frauds and impostures were never paralleled in the world but by it's self And do you think that a few ambiguous flourishing words of you an unknown person shall make the world believe that they understand not the Doctrine and Practise of your Church which is proclaimed unto them by the Fathers and Mâ—sters of your perswasion herein and expressed in practises under their eyes every day Do you think it so easie for you Cornieum oculos configere as Cicero tells us an Atturney one Cn Flavius thought to do in going beyond all that the great Lawyers had done before him Orat. pro Muraena We cannot yet be perswaded that you are so great an Interpreter of the Roman Oracles as to believe you before all the Sages before mentioned to whom hundreds may be added And what do you think of this Doctrine and Practise of your Church Hath it been opposed judged and condemned or no The first Writers of Christianity Just In Martyr Irenaeus Origen Tertullian Arnobius Lactantius utterly abhorred the use of all Images at least in Sacris The Councell held at Elibâ—ris in Spain twâ—ve or thirteen years before the famous Assembly at Nice positively forbid all use of Pictures in Churches Can. 36. Plaquit Picturas in Ecclesia esse non debâ—re ne quod colitur adoratur in parietibus depingatur The Councell resolved that Pictures ought not to be in Churches that 〈◊〉 which is worshipâ—d and adored be not painted on walls Cyprian condemns it Epist. ad Demetriad And so generally do all the Fathers as may be gathered in the pittifull endeavours and forgeries of the second Nicene Councell endeavouring to confirm it from them Epiphanius reckons it among the errors of the Gnosticks and himself brake an Image that he found hanging in a Church Epist ad Johan Hierosol Austin was of the same judgement see Lib. de moriâ— Eccles. Cathol cap. 34. Your Adoration of them iâ— expresly condemned by Gregory the great in an Epistle to Serinus Lib. 7. Ep. 111 and Lib. 9. Epist. 9. The Greek Church condemned it in a â—ynod at Constantinople an 775. And one learned man in those last dayes undertaking its defence and indeed the only man of learning that ever did so untill of late they excommunicated and cursed him This was Damascenus concerning whom they used those expressions repeated in the second Nicene Councell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Unto Mansour of an evil name and in judgement consenting with Saracens Anathema To Mansour a worshipper of Images and writer of Falshood Anathema To Mansour contumelious against Christ and traytor to the Empire Anathema To Mansour a teacher of impiety and perverse interpreter of Scripture Anathema Synod Nic. 2. Act. 6. For that it was Johannes Damascenus that they intended the Nicene Fathers sufficiently manifest in the Answer following read by Epiphanius the Deacon And this reward did he meet withall from the seventh Councell at Constantinople for his pains in asserting the veneration of Images although he did not in that particular pervert the Scripture as some of you do but laid the whole weight of his opinion on Tradition wherein he is followed by Vasquez among your selves Moreover the Western Churches in a great Councell at Frankeford in Germany utterly condemned the Nicene Determination which in your Tridentins Convention you approve and ratifie An. 794. It was also condemned here by the Church of England and the Doctrine of it fully confuted by Albinus Hoveden Annal. an 791. Never was any Heresie more publickly and solemnly condemned than this whereby your Church is fallen from its pristine purity But hereof more afterwards It were no difficult matter to procced unto all the Chief ways whereby your Church is fallen and to manifest that they have been all publickly disclaimed and condemned by the better and founder part of Professors But the Instances Insisted on may I hope prove sufficient for your satisfaction I shall therefore proceed to consider what you offer unto the remaining Principles which I conceived to animate the whole Discourse of your Fiat Lux. CHAP. V. Other Principles of Fiat Lux re-examined Things not at quiet in Religion before Reformation of the first Reformers Diparture from Rome no Cause of Devisions Returnal unto Rome no means of Union YOu proceed unto the fourth Assertion
gathered out of your Fiat which you thus lay down It is say you frequently pleaded by our Author that all things as to Religion were ever quiet and in 〈◊〉 before the Protestants Relinquishment of the Roman Sea That ever is your own addition but let it pass what say you hereunto This Principle you pretind is drawn out of Fiat Lux not because it is there but only to open a door to your self to exspatiate into some wide generall discourse about the many wars distractions alterations that have been aforetime up and down in the world in some severall Ages of Christianity And you thereforê say it is frequently pleaded by me because indeed I never spake one word of it and it is in truth a false and fond Assertion Though neither you nor I can deny that such as keep unity of faith with the Church can never so long as they hold it fall out upon that account S r I take you to be the Author of Fiat Lux and if you are so I cannot but think you were a sleep when you talk'd at this rate The Assertion is false and fond you speak not one word of it Pray S r take a little advice of your Son Fiat not to talk on this manner and you will wonder your self how you came to swallow so much confidence as in the face of the world to vent such things as these He tells us from you p. 234 235 236. Chap 4. Ed. 2. that After the conversion of this Land by the Children of blessed S t Benet notwithstanding the interposition of the Norman Conquest that all men lived peaceably together without any the least disturbance upon the account of Religion untill the end of King Henry the eighth's raign about five hundred years after the Conquest See also what in generall you discourse of all places to this purpose p. 221 222 And p. 227. you do in express terms lay down the position which here you so exclaim against as false and fond but you may make as bold with it as you please for it is your own Never had this Land say you for so many hundred years as it was Catholick upon the account of Religion any disturbance at all whereas after the exile of the Catholick belief in our Land from the period of King Henry the seventh's Raign to these dayes we have been in actuall disquiet or at least in fears Estne haec tunica filii tui Are not these your words Doth not your Son Fiat wear this livery And do you not speak to this purpose in twenty other places Is it not one of the main suppositions you proceed upon in your whole discourse You do well now indeed to acknowledg that what you spake was fond and false and you might do as much for the most that you have written in that whole discourse but now openly to deny what you have asserted and that in so many places that is not so well done of you There are S t many wayes to free your self from that dammage you feel or fear from the Animadversions When any thing is charged on you or proved against you which you are not able to defend you may ingenuously acknowledg your mistake and that without any dishonour to you at all Good men have done so so may you or I when we have just occasion It is none of your Tenents that you are all of you Infallible or that your personall mistakes or miscarriages will prejudice your Cause Or you might pass it by in silence as you have done with the things of the most importance in the Animadversions and so keep up your reputation that you could Reply to them if you would or were free from flyes And we know 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Menander speaks Silence is with many the best Answer Or you might attempt to disprove or answer as the case requires But this that you have fixed upon of denying your own words is the very worst course that you could have chosen upon the account either of Conscience or Reputation However thus much we have obtained One of the chief pretences of your Fiat is by your own confession false and fond It is indeed no wonder that it should be so it was fully proved to be so in the Animadversions but that you should acknowlâ—dge it to be so is somewhat strange and it would have been very welcome news had you plainly owned your conviction of it and not renounced your own off-spring But I see you have a mind to the benefit you aymed at by it though you are ashamed of the way you used for the obtaining of it and therefore adde That neither you nor I can deny that such as keep the unity of faith with that Church can never so long as they hold it fall out on that account But this on the first consideration seems to mee no very singular Priviledge me-thinks a Turk a few an Arian may say the same of their Societies It being no more but this So long as you agree with us you shall be sure to agree with us They must be very unfriendly minded towards you that will call these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into question Yet there remains still one Scruple on my mind in reference unto what you assert I am not satisfied that there is in your Church any such unity of faith as can keep men from falling out or differing in and about the Doctrines and Opinions they profess If there be the children of your Church are marvellous morose that they have not all this while learned to be quiet but are at this very day writing volumes against one another and procuring the Books of one another to be prohibited and condemned which the writings of one of the learnedest of you in this Nation have fately not escaped I know you will say sometimes that though you differ yet you differ not in things belonging unto the unity of faith But I fear this is but a Blind an Apron of Fig-leaves What you cannot agree in be it of never so great importance you will agree to say that it belongs not unto the unity of faith when things no way to be compared in weight and use with them so you agree about them shall be asserted so to do And in what you differ whilest the scales of Interest on the part of the combatanfs hang eeven all your differences are but in School and disputable points But if one party prevail in Interest and Reputation and render their Antagonists inconsiderable as to any outward trouble those very Points that before were disputable shall be made necessary and to belong to the Vnity of Faith as it lately happened in the Case of the Jansenists And here you are safe again The Unity of the Faith is that which you agree in and that which you cannot agree about belongs not unto it as you tell us though you talk at another rate among your selves But wee must think that the Unity of
this that where any persons or Churches are at variance or difference about any thing concerning Religion or the worship of God the Scripture is not sufficient for the Vmpirage of that Difference so that they may be reconciled and center in the Profession of the same Truth I wish you would now tell me what discrepancy there is between the Assertion which I ascribed unto you and that which your self here avow I suppose they are in substance the same and as such will be owned by every one that understands any thing of the matters about which we treat And this is so spoken unto in the Animadversions that you have no mind to undertake the examination of it but labour to divert the discourse unto that which may appear something else but indeed is not so 3. For your Distinction between Protestants and Puritans in England I know not well what to make of it I know no Puritans in England that are not Protestants though all the Protestants in England do not absolutely agree in every punctilio relating to Religion nor in all things relating unto the outward worship of God no more than did the Churches in the Apostles dayes or than your Catholicks do You give us then a Distinction like that which a man may give between the Church of Rome and the Jesuits or Dominicans or the Sons of S t. Benet or of S t Francis of Assize A Distinction or Distribution of the Genus into the Genus and one Species comprehended under it as if you should have said that Animal is either Animal or Homo 4. Though I had rather therefore that you had placed your Instance between the Church of Rome and Protestants yet because any instance of Persons that have different Apprehensions about things belonging to the worship of God will suffice us as to the present purpose I shall let it pass Only I desire you once more that when you would endeavour to render any thing way or acting of men odious that you would forbear to cast the Scripture into a Copartnership therein which here you seem to do The Puritan you say with the Scripture rose up and rebelled Rebellion is the name of an outragious Evil such as the Scripture giveth not the least Countenance unto And therefore when you think meet to charge it upon any you may do well not to say that they do it with the Scripture It will not be to your comfort or advantage so to do This is but my advice you may do as you see cause Tales Casus Cassandra canebat 5. The Differences you suppose and look upon as undeterminable by the Scripture are about things that in themselves really and in truth belong unto Christian Religion or such as do not so indeed but are only fancied by some men so to do If they are of this latter sort as the most of the Controversies which we have with you are as about your Mass Purgatory the Pope we account that all Differences about them are sufficiently determined in the Scriptures because they are no where mentioned in them And this must needs be so if the Word of God be as you here grant the sufficient and only means both of our Conversion and Settlement as well in Truth as in Vertue S r I had no sooner written these words in that haste wherein I treat with you but I suspected a necessity of craving your pardon for supposing my Inference confirmed by your Concession For whereas you had immediately before set down the Assertion supposed to be yours about the Scriptures you adde the words now mentioned Gods Word is the sufficient and only means of our Conversion and Settlement in the Truth I did not in the least suspect that you intended any Legerdemain in the business but that the Scripture and Gods Word had been only various denominations with you of the same precise Thing as they are with us Only I confess at the first view I wondred how you could reconcile this Assertion with the known Principles of your Church and besides I knew it to be perfectly destructive of your design in your following Enquiry But now I fear you play hide and seek in the ambiguity your Church hath put upon that Title Gods Word which it hath applyed unto your unwritten Traditions as well as unto the written Word as the Jews apply the same term unto their Orall Law And therefore as I said before I crave your pardon for supposing my Inference confirmed by your Concession wherein I fear I was mistaken and only desire you that for the future you would speak your mind plainly and candidly as it becomes a Christian and Lover of Truth to do But my Assertion I esteem never the worse though it have not the happiness to enjoy your approbation especially considering that in the particular Instances mentioned there are many things delivered in Scripture inconsistent with and destructive of your notions about them sufficient to exterminate them from the Confines of the City of God 6. Suppose the matters in difference do really belong unto Religion and the worship of God and that the Difference lyes only in mens various Conceptions of them you ask Can the Scripture alone of its self decide the business What do you mean by alone of its self If you mean without mens application of themselves unto it and subjecting of their Consciences unto its Authoritative decisions neither it nor any thing else can do it The matter its self is perfectly stated in the Scripture whether any men take notice of it or no but their various apprehensions about it must be regulated by their applications unto it in the way mentioned On this only Supposition that those who are at variance about things which really appertain unto the Religion of Jesus Christ will refer the determination of them unto the Scripture and bring the Conâ—eptions of their minds to be regulated thereby standing unto its Arbitriment it is able alone and of its self to end all their differences and settle them all iu the Truth This hath been proved unto you a thousand times and confirmed by most clear Testimonies of the Scripture its self with Arguments taken from its Nature Perfection and the End of its giving forth unto men as also from the practise of our Lord Jesus and his Apostles with their directions and commands given unto us for the same Purpose from the Practise of the First Churches with innumerable Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers and Doctors Neither can this be denied without that horrible Derogation from its Perfection and Plenitude so reverenced by them of old which is objected unto you for your so doing Protestants suppose the Scripture to be given forth by God to be unto the Church â—a perfect Rule of that Faith and Obedience which he requires at the hands of the sons of men They suppose that it is such a Revelation of his Mind or Will as is intelligible unto all them that are concerned to know
it if thy use the means by him appointed to come unto a right understanding of it They suppose that what is not taught therein or not taught so clearly as that men who humbly and heartily seek unto him may know his mind therein as to what he requireth of them cannot possibly be the necessary and indispensable Duty of any one to perform They suppose that it is the Duty of every man to search the Scriptures with all diligence by the help and assistance of the means that God hath appointed in his Church to come to the knowledg of his mind and will in all things concerning their Faith and Obedience and firmly to believe and adhere unto what they find revealed by him And they moreover suppose that those who deny any of these Suppositions are therein and so farre as they do so injurious to the Grace Wisedem Love and Care of God towards his Church to the Honour and perfection of the Scripture the Comfort and establishment of the Souls of men leaving them no assured Principles to build their Faith and Salvation upon Now from these Suppositions I hope you see that it will unavoidably follow that the Scripture is able every way to effect that which you deny unto it a sufficiency for For where I pray you lyes its defect I am afraid from the next part of your Question Has it ever done it that you run upon a great mistake The defect that follows the failings and miscarriages of men you would have imputed unto the want of sufficiency in the Scripture But wee cannot allow you herein The Scripture in its place and in that kind of Cause which it is is as sufficient to settle men all men in the Truth as the Sunne is to give light to all men to see by But the Sunne that giveth light doth not give eyes also The Scripture doth its work as a Morall Rule which men are not necessitated or compelled to attend unto or follow And if through their neglect of it or not attendance unto it or disability to discern the mind and will of God in it whether proceeding from their naturall impotency and blindness in their laps'd condition or some evil habit of mind contracted by their giving admission unto corrupt prejudices and Traditionall Principles the work be not effected this is no impeachment of the Scriptures sufficiency but a manifestation of their weakness and folly Besides all that unity in faith that hath been at any time or is in the world according to the mind of God every Decision that hath been made at any time of any difference in or about Religion in a right way and order hath been by the Scripture which God hath sanctified unto those ends and purposes And it is impossible that the miscarriages or defects of men can reflect the least blame upon it or make it esteemed insufficient for the end now enquired after The pursuit then of your Enquiry which now you insist upon is in part vain in part already answered In vain it is that you enquire whether the written Word can settle any man in a way that neither himself nor present adherents nor future Generations shall question For our enquiry is not after what may be or what shall be but what ought to be It is able to settle a man in a way that none ought to question unto the worlds end So it setled the first Christians But to secure us that none shall ever question the way whereinto it leads us that it is not designed for nor is it either needfull or possible that it should be so The Orall preaching of the Sonne of God and of his Apostles did not so secure them whom they taught The way that professed was every where questioned contradicted spoken against and many after the profession of it again renounced it And I wonder what feat you have to settle any one in a way that shall never be questioned The Authority of your Pope and Church will not do it Themselves are things as highly questioned and disputed about as any thing that was ever named with reference unto Religion If you shall say But yet they ought not to be so questioned and it is the fault of men that they are so You may well spare me the labour of answering your Question seeing you have done it your self And whereas you adde or with as much probability dissent from it either totally or in part as himself first set it when the very preceding words do not speak of a mans own setting but of the Scriptures setling the man only embracing what that setleth and determineth It is answered already that what is so setled by the Scripture and received as setled cannot justly be questioned by any And you insinuate a most irrationall Supposition on which your Assertion is built namely that Errour may have as much probability as Truth For I suppose you will grant that what is setled by the Scripture is true and therefore that which dissents from it must needs be an errour which that it may be as probable indeed as Truth for we speak not of appearances which have all their strength from our weaknesses is a new notion which may well be added to your many other of the like rarity and evidence But why is not the Scripture able to settle men in unquestionable Truth When the people of old doubted about the wayes of God wherein they ought to walk himself sends them to the Law and to the Testimony for their instruction and settlement Isa 8. 20. And we think the counsell of him who cannot deceive nor be deceived is to be hearkned unto as well as his command to be obeyed Our Saviour assures us that if men will not hear Moses and the Prophets and take direction from them for those wayes wherein they may please God they will not do it whatsoever they pretend from any other means which they rather approve of Luk. 16. 29 31. Yea and when the great Fundamental of Christian Religion concerning the Person of the Messiah was in question he sends men for their settlement unto the Scriptures Joh. 5. 39. And we suppose that that which is sufficient to settle us in the foundation is so to confirm us also in the whole superstructure Especially considering that it is able to make the man of God perfect and to be thoroughly furnished unto all good works 2 Tim. 3. 16 17. What more is required unto the settlement of any one in Religion wee know not nor what can rationally stand in competition with the Scripture to this purpose seeing that is expresly commended unto us for it by the Holy Ghost other wayes are built on the conjectures of men Yea the Assurance which we may have hereby is preferred by Peter before that which any may have by an immediate voyce from Heaven 2 Pet. 1. 19. And is it not an unreasonable thing now for you to come and tell us that the Scripture is not sufficient
to give us an unquestionable settlement in Religion Whether it be meet to hearken unto God or men judge you For our parts wee seek not for the foundation of our settlement in long uncertain discourses doubious conclusions and inferences fallible conjectures sophisticall reasonings such as you would call us unto but in the express direction and command of God Him we can follow and trust unto without the least fear of miscarriage Whither you would lead us wee know not and are not willing to make desperate experiments in things of so high concernment But since you have been pleased to overlook what hath been discoursed unto this purpose in the Animadversions and with your usuall confidence to affirm that I no where at all speak one word to the Case that you proposed I shall for your further satisfaction give you a little enlargement of my thoughts as to the Principles on which Protestants and Romanists proceed in these matters and compare them together that it may be seen whether of us build on the most stable and adequate foundation as to the superstruction aymed at by us both Two things you profess if I mistake not to ayme at in your Fiat at least you pretend so to do 1. Moderation in and about our differences whilest they continue 2. The reduction of all dissenters unto an unity in faith and Profession Things no doubt great and excellent He can be no Christian that aymes not at them that doth not earnestly desire them You profess to make them your Design Protestants do so also Now let us consider whether of the two you or they are fitted with Principles according unto the diversity of Professions wherein you are engaged for the regular accomplishment and effecting of these ends And in the consideration of the latter of them you will find your present Case fully and clearly resolved For the first of Moderation I intend by it and I think so do you also the mutuall forbearance of one another as to any effects of hatred enmity or animosities of any kind attended with offices of Love Charity Kindness and Compassion proceeding from a frame of heart or gracious habit of mind naturally producing such effects with a quiet peaceable deportment towards one another during our present differences in or about any thing in Religion Certainly this Moderation is a blessed thing earnestly commended unto us by our Lord Jesus Christ and his Apostles and as necessary to preserve peace among Christians as the Sunne in the firmament is to give light unto the world The very Heathen could say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Moderation is the life of all things and nothingis durable but from the Influence which it receives from it Now in pressing after moderation Protestants proceed chiefly on two Principles which being once admitted make it a Duty indispensable And I can assure you that no man will long follow after moderation but only he that looks upon it as his Duty so to do Incident provocations will quickly divert them in their course who pursue it for any other ends or on any other accounts The first Principle of the Protestants disposing them to moderation and indispensably exacting it of them as their Duty is that amongst all the Professours of the Name of Christ who are known by their Relation unto any Church or Way of Note or Mark in the world not actually condemned in the Primitive or Apostolicall times there is so much saving Truth owned and taught as being received with faith and submitted unto with sincere obedience is sufficient to give them that profess it an Interest in Christ and in the Covenant of Grace and Love of God and to secure their salvation This Principle hath been openly defended by them and I profess it to be mine It is true there are wayes whereby the Truth mentioned may be rendred ineffectuall but that hinders not but that the Principle is true and that the Truth so received is sufficient for the producing of those effects in its kind and place And let men ptetend what they please the last day will discover that that Faith which purifieth the heart and renders the person in whom it is accepted to God by Jesus Christ may have its objective Truths confined in a very narrow compass yet it must embrace all that is indispensably necessary to salvation And it is an unsufferable Tyranny over the Souls and Consciences of men to introduce and assert a necessity of believing whatever this or that Church any or indeed all Churches shall please to propose For the proposall of all the Churches in the world cannot make any thing to be necessary to be believed that was not so antecedently unto that proposall Churches may help the faith of Believers they cannot burthen it or exercise any dominion over it He that believeth that whatever God reveales is true and that the holy Scripture is a perfect Revelation of his mind and will wherein almost all Christians agree need not fear that he shall be burdened with multitudes of particular Articles of Faith provided he do his Duty in sincerity to come to an acquaintance with what God hath so revealed Now if mens common Interest in Christ their head and thereby their participation of the same Spirit from him with their union in the bond of the Covenant of Grace and an equall sharing in the Love of God the Father be the Principles and upon the matter the only grounds and reasons of that speciall Love without dissimulation which Christians ought to bear one towards another from whence the moderation pleaded for must proceed or it is a thing of no use in our present case at least no way generally belonging to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and if all these things may be obtained by vertue of that Truth which is professed in common among all known Societies of Christians doth it not unavoidably follow that we ought to exercise moderation towards one another however differing in or about things which destroy not the Principles of Love and Union Certainly we ought unless we will resolvedly stifle the actings of that Love which is implanted in all the Disciples of Christ and besides live in an open disobedience unto his commands This then indispensably exacts moderation in Protestants towards them that differ from them and that not only within the lines of Protestancy because they believe that notwithstanding that dissent they have or may have for ought they know an interest in those things which are the only reasons of that Love which is required in them towards the Disciples of Christ. There is a moderation proceeding from the Principles of Reason in generall and requisite unto our common interest in humanity which is good and an especiall ornament unto them in whom it is especially if they are Persons exalted above others in place of Rule and Goveanment Men fierce implacable revengefull impatient treading down all that they dislike under their feet are the greatest defacers of the
Image of God in the world and upon the matter the only troublers of humane Society But the moderation which the Gospel requireth ariseth and proceedeth from the Principles of Vnion with Christ before mentioned which is that that proves us Disciples of Christ indeed and will confirm the mind in suitable actings against all the provocations to the Contrary which from the infirmities and miscarriages of men we are sure to meet withall Neither doth this at all hinder but that we may contend earnestly for the Truth delivered unto us and labour by the wayes of Christ's appointment to reclaim others from such opinions wayes and practises in and about the things of Religion and worship of God as are injurious unto his Glory and may be destructive and pernicious to their own souls Neither doth it in the least put any discouragement upon endeavours to oppose the impiety and Prophaneness of men in their corruption in life and Conversation which certainly and unquestionably are inconsistent with and destructive of the Profession of the Gospel let them on whom they are found be of what party Church or way of Religion they please And if those in whose hearts are the wayes of God however diversifyed among themselves by various apprehensions of some Doctrines and Practises would sincerely according to their Duty set themselves to oppose that prophaneness wickedness of Life or open vitiousness of Conversation which is breaking in like a flood upon the world and which as it hath already almost drowned the whole glory of Christian Religion so it will undoubtedly if not prevented end in the woful calamity and finall ruine of Christendome they would have less mind and leasure to wrangle fiercely among themselves and breathe out destruction against one another for their mistakes and differences about things which by their own experience they find not to take off from their Love to Christ nor weaken the obedience he requires at their hands But whilest the whole power of Christianity is despised Conversion to God and separation from the wayes of the perishing World are set at nought and men think they have nothing to do in Religion but to be zealously addicted to this or that party amongst them that profess it it is no wonder if they think their chiefest Duty to consist in destroying one another But for men that profess to be leaders and guides of others in Christian Religion openly to persue carnall and worldly interests greatness wealth outward Splendour and Pomp to live in Luxury and pride to labour to strengthen and support themselves by the adherence of Persons of prophane and wicked lives that so they may destroy all that in any opinion differ from themselves is vigorously to endeavour to drive out of the world that Religion which they profess and in the mean time to render it so unomely and undesirable that others must needs be discouraged from its embracement But these things cannot spring from the Principles of Protestants which as I have manifested lead them unto other manner of actings And it is to no purpose to ask why then they are not all affected accordingly For they that are not so do live in an open contradiction to their own avowed Principles which that it is no news in the world the vicious lives of many in all places professing Christianity will not suffer us to doubt For though that Religion which they profess reacheth them to deny all ungodliness and wordly lusts to live soberly and righteously and godlily in this present world if they intend the least benefit by it yet they will hold the profession of it in a contrary practise And for this self-deceiving attended with eternall ruine many men are beholding unto such notions as yours about your Church securing Salvation within the pale of its externall Communion laying little weight on the things which at the last day will only stand them in stead But for Protestants setting aside their occasionall exasperations when they begin to bethink themselves they cannot satisfie their own Consciences in a resolution not to love them because of some differences whom they believe that God loves or may love notwithstanding those Differrences from them or to renounce all Vnion with them who they are perswaded are united unto Christ or not to be moderate towards them in this world with whom they expect to live for ever in another I speak only of them on all sides who have received into their hearts and do express in their lives the Spirituall Power and energy of the Gospel who are begotten unto Christ by the Word of Truth and have received of his Spirit promised in the Covenant of Grace unto all them that believe on him For not to dissemble with you I believe all others as to their present state to be in the same condition before God be they of what Church or way they will though they are not all in the same condition in respect of the means for their Spirituall advantage which they enjoy or may do so they being much more excellent in some Societies of Christians than others This then to return is the Principle of Protestants derived down unto them from Christ and his Apostles and hereby are they eminently furnished for the exercise of that moderation which you so much and so deservedly commend And more fully to tell you my private judgement which whether it be my own only I do not much concern my self to enquire but this it is Any man in the world who receiveth the Scripture of the Old and New Testament as the Word of God and on that account assents in generall to the whole Truth revealed in them worshipping God in Christ and yeelding obedience unto him answerable unto his light and Conviction not contradicting his profession by any practise inconsistent with true piety nor the owning of any opinion or perswasion destructive to the known fundamentals of Christianity though he should have the unhappiness to dissent in some things from all the Churches that are at this day in the world may yet have an internall supernaturall saving Principle of his faith and obedience and be undoubtedly saved And I am sure it is my Duty to exercise Moderation towards every man concerning whom I have or ought to have that Perswasion 2. Some Protestants are of that judgement that externall force ought to have no place at all in matters of faith however Laws may be constituted with Penalties for the preservation of publick outward order in a Nation most of them that Hareticidium or putting men to death for their misapprehensions in the things of God is absolutely unlawfull and all of them that Faith is the Gift of God for the communication whereof unto men he hath appointed certain means whereof externall force is none Unto which Two last Positions not only the greatest Protestant but the greatest Potentate in Europe hath lately in his own words expressive of an heavenly benignity towards mankind in their infirmities declared his
Royall Assent And I shall somewhat question the Protestancy of them whom his Authority Example and Reason doth not conclude in these things For my part I desire no better I can give no greater warrant to assert them as the Principles of Protestants than what I have now acquainted you with And it is no small satisfaction unto me to contemplate on the heavenly Principle of Gospel peace planted in the noble soyl of Royall Ingenuity and Goodness whence fruit may be expected to the great profit and advantage of the whole world Now it is easie to discover the naturall and genuine tendency of these Principles towards Moderation Indeed in acting according unto them and in a regular consistency with them consists the Moderation which we treat about Where-ever then Protestants use not that Moderation towards those that dissent from them if otherwise peaceable which the Lord Jesus requires his Disciples to exercise towards all them that profess the same common hope with them the fault is solely in the Persons so offending and is not countenanced from any Principles which they avow Whether it be so with those of your Church shall now be considered 1. You have no one Principle that you more pertinaciously adhere unto nor which yeelds you greater advantage with weak unstable souls than that whereby you confine all Christianity within the bounds of your own Communion The Roman Church and the Catholick are with you one and the same No Priviledge of the Gospell you suppose belongs unto any soul in the world who lives not in your Communion and in professed subjection unto the Pope Vnion with Christ saving Faith here with salvation hereafter belongs to no other no not one This is the moderation of your Church whereunto your outward actings have for the most part been suited Indeed by this one Principle you are utterly incapacitated to exercise any of that moderation towards those that dissent from you which the Gospell requires You cannot love them as the Disciples of Christ nor act towards them from any such Principles It is possible for you to shew moderation towards them as men but to shew any moderateon towards them as those partakers of the same precious faith with you that is impossible for you to do Yet this is that which we are enquiring after not the moderation that may be amongst men as men but that which ought to be amongst Christians as Christians This is Gospell moderation the other is common unto us with Turks Jews and Pagans and not at all of our present disquisition And I wish that this were found amongst you as proceeding from the Principles of Reason with ingenuity and goodness of nature more than it is For that which proceedeth from and is regulated by Interest is Hypocriticall and not thank-worthy As occasion offers it self it will turn and change as we have found it to do in most Kingdoms of Europe Apparent then it is that this fundamentall Principle of your Profession Subesse Romano Pontifici c. that it is of indispensible necessity unto Salvation unto every Soul to be subject unto the Pope of Rome doth utterly incapacitate you for that moderation towards any that are not of you which Christ requires in his Disciples towards one another seeing you judg none to be so but your selves Yet I assure you withall that I hope yea I am verily perswaded that there are many very many amongst you whose minds and affections are so influenced by common ingrafted notions of God and his Goodness with a sense of the frailties of mankind and weakness of the evidence that is tendred unto them for the eviction of that indispensible necessity of subjection to the Pope which their Masters urge as also with the beams of Truth shining forth in generall in the Scriptures and what they know or have heard of the practises of primitive times as that being seasoned with Christian charity and candour they are not so leavened with the sowr prejudice of this Principle as to be rendred unmeet for the due exercise of moderation but for this they are not beholding to your Church not this great Principle of your profession 2. It is the Principle of your Church whereunto your Practise hath been suited that those who dissent from you in things determined by your Church being Hereticks if they continue so to do after the application of the means for their reclaiming which you think meet to use ought to be imprisoned burned or one way or other put to death This you cannot deny to be your Principle it being the very foundation of your Inquisition the chief corner-stone in your present Ecclesiasticall fabrick that couples and holds up the whole building together And it hath been asserted in your practice for sundry Ages in most Nations of Europe Your Councels as that of Constance have determined it and practised accordingly with John Huss and Hierome Your Doctors dispute for it your Church lives upon it That you are destitute of any colour from Antiquity in this your way I have shewed before Bellarmine de Laic cap. 22. could find no other Instances of it but that of Priscillianus which what entertainment it found in the Church of God I have declared with that of one Basilius out of Gregories Dialogues Lib. 1. Cap 4. whom he confesseth to have been a Magitian and of Bogomilus in the dayes of Alexius Comnenus 1100 years after Christ whose putting to death notwithstanding was afterward censured and condemned in a Synod of more sober Persons than those who procured it Instance of your avowing this Principle in your dealing with the Albigenses of old the Inhabitants of Merindol and Chrabiers in France with the Waldenses in the valleys of Piedmont formerly and of late of your judiciary proceedings against multitudes of Persons of all sorts conditions ages and sexes in this and most other Nations of Europe you are not pleased with the mention of I shall therefore pass them by Only I desire you would not question whether this be the Principle of your Church or no seeing you have given the world too great assurance that so it is And your self in your Fiat commend the wisdome of Philip King of Spain in his rigour in the pursuit of it p. 243. These things being so I desire to know what foundation you have to stand upon in pressing for moderation amongst dissenters in Religion I confess it is a huge argument of your good nature that you are so inclinable unto it but when you should come to the reall exercise of it I am afraid you would find your hands tied up by these Principles of your Church and your endeavours thereupon become very faint and evanid Men in such cases may make great pretences At velut in somnis oculos ubi languida pressit Nocte quies nequicquam avidos extendere cursus Volle videmur in mediis conatibus aegri Succidimus being destitute of any reall foundation your attempts are but like the fruitless
endeavours of men in their sleep wherein great workings of spirits and Fancy produce no effects I confess notwithstanding all this others may be moderate towards you I judg it their duty so to be I desire they may be so but how you should exercise moderation towards others I cannot so well discern Only as unto the former so much more am I relieved as unto this Principle from the perswasion I have of the candour and ingenuity of many individuall Persons of your Profession which will not suffer them to be captivated under the Power of such corrupt prejudices as these And for my part if I could approve of externall force in any Case in matters of Religion it would be against the promoters of the Principle mentioned Cogendus In mores hominemque Creon When men under pretence of Zeal for Religion depose all sense of the Laws of Nature and humanity some earnestness may be justified in unteaching them their untoward Catechisms which lye indeed not only against the design Spirit Principles and letter of the Gospell but Terrarum leges mundi foedera the very foundations of Reason on which men coalesce into civill society But as we observed before out of one of the Anfients Force hath no place in or about the Law of Christ one way or other That which gave occasion unto this Discourse was your insinuation of the Scriptures Insufficiency for the settlement of men in the Unity of Faith the contrary whereof being the great Principle of Protestancy I was willing a little to enlarge my self unto the consideration of your Principles and ours not only with reference unto the Vnity of Faith but also as unto that moderation which you pretend to plead for and the want whereof you charge on Protestants premising it unto the ensuing discourse wherein you will meet with a full and a direct Answer unto your Question CHAP. VII Vnity of Faith wherein it consists Principles of Protestants as to the setling men in Religion and Vnity of Faith proposed and confirmed THe next thing proposed as a Good to be aymed at is Vnity in Faith and settlement or infallible assurance therein This is a Good desireable for its self whereas the moderation treated of is only a medium of relief against other evils untill this may be attained And therefore though it be upon supposition of our Differences earnestly to be endeavoured after yet it is not to be rested in as though the utmost of our Duty consisted in it and we had no prospect beyond it It is a Catholick Vnity in Faith which all Christians are to aym at and so both you and wee profess to doe only wee differ both about the Nature of it and the proper means of attaining it For the Nature of it you conceive it to consist in the explicit or implicit belief of all things and Doctrines determined on taught and proposed by your Church be believed and nothing else with faith supernaturall but what is so taught and proposed But this description of the Vnity of Faith wee can by no means admit of 1. Because it is Novel it hath no footstep in any writings of the Apostles nor of the first Fathers or Writers of the Church nor in the practice of the Disciples of Christ for many Ages That the Determination of the Roman Church and its proposall of things or Articles to be believed should be the adequate Rule of Faith unto all Believers is a matter as forreign unto all Antiquity as that the Prophesies of Montanus should be so 2. Because it makes the Unity of Faith after the full and last Revelation of the Will of God flux alterable and unstable lyable to increase and decrease whereas it is uniform constant alwayes the same in all Ages times and places since the finishing of the Canon of the Scriptures For we know and all the world knows that your Church hath determined many things lately some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it were but yesterday to be believed which its self had never before determined and so hath increased the Rule of Faith moved its Center and extended its Circumference and what she may further determine and propose to morrow no man knows and your duty it is to be ready to believe whatever she shall so propose whereby you cannot certainly know unto your dying day whether you do believe all that may belong to the Vnity of Faith or no. Nay 3. your Church hath determined and proposed to be believed express Contradictions which Determinations abiding on record you are not agreed which of them to adhere unto as is manifest in your Conciliary Decrees about the Power of the Pope and the Councill unto which of them the preheminence is due Now this is a strange Rule of the Unity of Faith that is not only capable of encrease changes and alterations so that that may belong unto it one day which did not belong unto it another as is evident from your Tridentine Decrees wherein you made many things necessary to be believed which before were esteemed but probable and were the subjects of Sophisticall altercations in your Schools but also comprizeth in its self express Contradictions which cannot at all belong unto faith because both of them may be false one of them must be so nor to Vnity because Contrary and adverse 4. Whereas holding the Unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace or the Unity of faith is so great and important a Duty unto all Christians that they can no way discharge their Consciences unto God without a well grounded satisfaction that they live in the performance of it this description of its Nature renders it morally impossible for any man explicitly to know and that only a man knows which he knows explicitly that he doth answer his Duty herein For 1. the Determinations of your Church of things to be believed are so many and various that it is not within the Compass of an ordinary Diligence and ability to search and find them out Nor when a man hath done his utmost can he obtain any tolerable security that there have not other Determinations been made that he is not as yet come to an acquaintance with all or that he ever shall so do and how in this Case he can have any satisfactory perswasion that he keeps the Unity of Faith is not as yet made evident 2. In the Determinations he may meet withall or by any means come to the knowledge of he is to receive and believe the things determined and proposed unto him in the sense intended by the Church or else he is never the nearer to his end But what that sense is in the most of your Churches proposals your Doctors do so endlesly quarrell among themselves that it is impossible a man should come unto any great Certainty in his enquiry after it yet a precise meaning in all her proposals your Church must have o◠she hath none at all What shall a man do when he comes
unto one of your great Masters to be acquainted with the genuine sense of one of your Churches Proposals this being the way that he takes for his satisfaction First he speaks unto the Article or Question to be considered in Generall then gives the different senses of it according to these and those famous Masters the most of which he confutes who yet all of them professed themselves to explain and to speak according to the sense of your Church and lastly gives his own interpretation of it which it may be within a few moneths is confuted by another 3. Suppose a man have attained a knowledge of all that your Church hath determined and proposed to be believed and to a right understanding of her precise sense and meaning in all her determinations and proposals which I believe never yet man attained unto yet what assurance can he have if he live in any place remote from Rome but that your Church may have made some new Determinations in matters of faith whose embracement in the sense which she intends belongs unto his keeping the Unity of Faith which yet he is not acquainted withall Is it not simply impossible for him to be satisfied at any time that he believes all that is to be believed or that he holds the Vnity of Faith Your late Pontific all Determination in the Case of the Jansenists and Molinists is sufficient to illustrate this instance For I suppose you are equally bound not to believe what your Church condemneth as Hereticall as you are bound to believe what it proposeth for Catholick Doctrine 4. I desire to know when a man who lives here in England begins to be obliged to believe the Determinations of your Church that are made at Rome It may be he first hears of them in a Mercury or weekly News book or it may be he hath notice of them by some private Letters from some who live near the place or it may be he hath a knowledge of them by common report or it may be they are printed in some Books or that there is a brief of them published somewhere under the name of the Pope or they are put into some Volume written about the Councels or some Religious Persons on whom he much relyes assures him of them I know you believe that your Churches Proposition is a sufficient means of the Revelation of any Article to make it necessary to be believed but I desire to know what is necessary to Cause a man to receive any Dictate or Doctrine as your Churches proposition not only upon this account that you are not very well agreed upon the Requisita unto the making of such a Proposition but also because be you as infallible as you please in your Proposals the means and wayes you use to communicate those Proposals you make unto Individuals in whom alone the faith whereof we treat exists are all of them fallible Now that which I desire to know is What is or what are those certain means and wayes of communicating the Propositions of your Church unto any Person wherein he is bound to acquiesce and upon the application of them unto him to believe them fide divina cui non potest subesse falsum Is it any one thing or way or means that the hinge upon which his assent turns Or is it a Complication of many things concurring to the same purpose If it be any one thing way or medium that you fix upon pray let us know it and we shall examine its fitness and sufficiency for the use you put it unto I am sure we shall find it to be either infallible or fallible If you say the former and that particular upon which the Assent of a mans mind unto any thing to be the proposall of your Church depends must in the testimony it gives and evidence that it affords be esteemed infallible then you have as many infallible Persons things or writings as you make use of to acquaint one another with the determinations of your Church that is upon the matter you are all so though I know in particular that you are not If the latter notwithstanding the first pretended infallible Proposition your faith will be found to be resolved immediately into a fallible information For what will it advantage me that the proposall of your Church cannot deceive me if I may be deceived in the Communicating of that Proposall unto me And I can with no more firmness certainty or assurance believe the thing proposed unto me than I do believe that it is the Proposall of the Church wherein it is made For you pretend not unto any self-evidencing efficacy in your Churches Propositions or things proposed by it but all their Authority as to me turns upon the Assurance that I have of their relation unto your Church or that they are the Proposals of your Church concerning which I have nothing but very fallible evidence and so cannot possibly believe them with Faith Divine and Supernaturall If you shall say that there are many things concurring unto this Communication of your Churches Proposals unto a man as the notoritty of the Fact suitable proceedings upon it books written to prove it Testimonies of good men and the like I cannot but mind you that all these being sigillatim every one apart fallible they cannot in their Conspiracy improve themselves into an Infallibility Strengthen a Probability they may testifie infallibly they neither do nor can So that on this account it is not only impossible for a man to know whether he holds the Vnity of Faith or no but indeed whether he believe any thing at all with Faith Supernaturall and Divine seeing he hath no infallible evidence for what is proposed unto him to believe to build his faith upon 5. Protestants are not satisfied with your generall implicit assent unto what your Church teacheth and determineth which you have invented to solve the difficulties that attend your Description of the Vnity of Faith Of what use it may be unto other purposes I do not now dispute but as to this of the preservation of the Vnity of Faith it is certainly of none at all The Vnity of Faith consists in all mens express believing all that all men are bound expresly to believe be it what it will Now you would have this preserved by mens not believing what they are bound to believe For what belongs to this keeping the Vnity of Faith they are bound to believe expresly and what they believe implicitly they do indeed no more but not expresly disbelieve for if they do any more than not disbelieve they put forth some act of their understanding about it and so farre expresly believe it So that upon the matter you would have ment to keep the Unity of Faith by a not believing of that which that they may keep the Unity of Faith they are bound expresly to believe Nor can you do otherwise whilest you make all the Propositions of your Church of things to be
believed to belong to the Unity of Faith Lastly The Determinations of your Church you make to be the next efficient Cause of your Unity now these not being absolutely infallible leave it like Delos flitting up and down in the Sea of Probabilities only This we shall manifest unto you immediately at least we shall evidence that you have no cogent reasons nor slable grounds to prove your Church infallible in her Determinations At present it shall suffice to mind you that she hath Determined Contradictions and that in as eminent a manner as it is possible for her to declare her sense by namely by Councils confirmed by Popes and an infallible determination of Contradictions is not a Notion of any easie digestion in the thoughts of a man in his right wits We confess then that we cannot agree with you in your Rule of the Unity of Faith though the thing its self we press after as our Duty For 2. Protestants do not conceive this Vnity to consist in a precise Determination of all Questions that are or may be raised in or about things belonging unto the Faith whether it be made by your Church or any other way Your Thomas of Aquine who without question is the best and most sober of all your School Doctors hath in one Book given us 522 Articles of Religion which you esteem mraculously stated Quot Articuli tot Miracula All these have at least five Questions one with another stated and determined in explication of them which amount unto 2610 Conclusions in matters of Religion Now we are farre from thinking that all these Determinations or the like belong unto the Unity of Faith though much of the Religion amongst some of you lyes in not dissenting from them The Questions that your Bellarmine hath determined and asserted the Positions in them as of faith and necessary to be believed are I think neer 40 times as many as the Articles of the antient Creed of the Church and such as it is most evident that if they be of the nature and importance pretended it is impossible that any considerable number of men should ever be able to discharge their duty in this business of holding the Vnity of Faith That a man believe in generall that the holy Scripture is given by inspiration from God and that all things proposed therein for him to believe are therefore infallibly true and to be as such believed and that in particular he believe every Article or point of Truth that he hath sufficient means for his instruction in and conviction that it is so revealed they judg to be necessary unto the holding of the Unity of Faith And this also they know that this sufficiency nf means unto every one that enjoys the benefit of the Scriptures extends its self unto all those Articles of Truth which are necessary for him to believe so as that he may yield unto God the obedience that he requireth receive the holy Spirit of promise and be accepted with God Herein doth that Vnity of Faith which is amongst the Disciples of Christ in the world consist and ever did nor can do so in any thing else Nor doth that variety of Apprehensions that in many things is found among the Disciples of Christ and ever was render this Vnity like that you plead for various and incertain For the Rule and formall Reason of it namely Gods Revelation in the Scripture is still one and the same perfectly unalterable And the severall degrees that men attain uuto in their Apprehensions of it doth no more reflect a charge of variety upon it than the difference of Seeing as to the severall degrees of the sharpness or obtuseness of our bodily eyes doth upon the Light given by the Sunne The Truth is if there was any common measure of the Assents of men either as to the intension of it as it is subjectively in their minds or extension of it as it respecteth Truths revealed that belonged unto the Vnity of Faith it were impossible there should be any such thing in the world at least that any such thing should be known to be Only this I acknowledg that it is the Duty of all men to come up to the full and explicit acknowledgment of all the Truths revealed in the word of God wherein the Glory of God and the Christians Duty are concerned as also to a joynt consent in Faith objective or propositions of Truth revealed at least in things of most importance though their faith subjective or the internal assent of their minds have as it will have in severall Persons various degrees yea in the same Persons it may be at different seasons And in our labouring to come up unto this joynt-acknowledgment of the same sense and intendment of God in all revealed Truths consists our endeavour after that perfection in the Vnity of Faith which in this life is attainable as our moderation doth in our walking in peace and love with and towards others according to what we have already attained We may distinguish then between that Unity of Faith which an interest in gives Vnion with Christ unto them that hold it and Communion in Love with all equally interested therein and that Accomplishment of it which gives a sameness of Profession and consent in all acts of outward Communion in the worship of God The first is found in and amongst all the Disciples of Christ in the world where-ever they are the latter is that which moreover it is your Duty to press after The former consists in an Assent in generall unto all the Truths of God revealed in the Scripture and in particular unto them that we have sufficient means to evidence them unto us to be so revealed The latter may come under a double consideration for either there may be required unto it in them who hold it the joynt perception of and assent unto every Truth revealed in the Scripture with an equall degree of certainty in adherence and evidence in perception and it is not in this life wherein the best of us know but in part attainable or only such a concurrence in an assent unto the necessary Propositions of Truth as may enable them to hold together that outward Communion in the worship of God which we before mentioned And this is certainly attainable by the wayes and means that shall immediately be layed down And where this is there is the Vnity of Faith in that compleatness which we are bound to labour for the attainment of This the Apostolicall Churches enjoyed of old and unto the recovery whereof there is nothing more prejudiciall than your new stating of it upon the account of your Churches Proposals This Unity of Faith we judg good and necessary and that it is our Duty to press after it So also in generall do you It remains then that we consider what is the way what are the means and Principles that Protestants propose and insist upon for the attainment of it that is in answer
man will swallow amongst them that which is destitute of all Probability but what is included in the evidence given unto it by Divine Revelation which is not yet pleaded unto him It may be then you will work Miracles to confirm your Assertions Let us see them For although very many things are requisite to manifest any works of wonder that may be wrought in the world to be reall Miracles and good Caution be required to judge unto what end Miracles are wrought yet if we may have any tolerable evidence of your working Miracles in Confirmation of this Assertion that you are the true and only Church of God with the other Inferences depending thereon which we are in the Consideration of you will find us very easie to be treated withall But herein also you fail You have then no way to deal with such a man as we first supposed but as you do with us and produce Testimonies of Scripture to prove and confirm the Authority of your Church and then you will quickly find where you are and what snares you have cast your selves into Will not a man who hears you proving the Authority of your Church by the Scripture ask you And whence hath this Scripture its Authority yea that is supposed to be the thing in Question which denying unto it an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you yet produce to confirm the Authority of that by whose Authority alone its self is evidenced to have any Authority at all Rest in the Authority of God manifesting its self in the Scripture witnessed unto by the Catholick Tradition of all Ages you will not But you will prove the Scripture to be the Word of God by the Testimony of your Church and you will prove your Châ—â—â—h to be enabled sufficiently to testifie the Scriptures to be of God by the Testimonies of the Scripture Would you knew where to begin and where to end But you are indeed in a Circle which hath neither beginning nor ending I know not when we shall be enabled to say Inventus Chrysippe tui finitor acervi Now do you think it reasonable that we should leave our stable and immoveable firm foundations to run round with you in this endless Circle untill through giddiness we fall into Unbelief or Atheism This is that which I told you before you must either acknowledge our Principle in this matter to be firm and certain or open a door to Atheism and the Contempt of Christian Religion seeing you are not able to substitute and thing in the room thereof that is able to bear the weight that must be laid upon it if we believe For how should you do so shall man be like unto God or equall unto him The Testimony we rest in is Divine fortified from all Objections by the strongest humane Testimony possible namely Catholick Tradition That which you would supply us with is meerly Humane and no more And 4. your Importunity in opposing this Principle is so much the more marvellous unto us because therein you openly oppose your selves to express Testimonies of Scripture and the full Suffrage of the Ancient Church I wish you would a little weigh what is affirmed 2 Pet. 1. 19 20. Psal. 119. 152. Joh. 5. 34 35 36 39. 1 Thess. 2. 13. Act. 17. 11. 1 Joh. 5. 6 10. 1 Joh. 2. 20. Heb. 11. 1 Tim. 1. 15. Act. 26. 22. And will you take with you the consent of the Ancients Clemens Alexand. Strom. 7. speaks fully to our purpose as he doth also lib. 4. where he plainly affirms that the Church proved the Scripture by its selfâ— and other things as the Unity of the Deity by the Scripture But his own words in the former place are worth the recital 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the beginning of Faith or Principle of what we teach we have the Lord who in sundry manners and by divers parts by the Prophets Gospel and holy Apostles leads us to knowledge And if any one suppose that a Principle stands in need of another to prove it he destroys the nature of a Principle or it is no longer preserved a Principle This is that we say The Scripture the Old and New Testament is the Principle of our Faith This is proved by its self to be of the Lord who is its Author and if we cause it to depend on any thing else it is no longer the Principle of our Faith and Profession And a little after where he hath shewed that a Principle ought not to be disputed nor to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any debate he addes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is meet then that receiving by Faith the most absolute Principle without other demonstration and taking demonstrations of the Principle from the Principle its self that we be instructed by the voice of the Lord unto the knowledge of the Truth That is we believe the Scripture for its own sake and the Testimony that God gives unto it in it and by it and do prove every thing else by it and so are confirmed in the faith or knowledge of the Truth So he further explains himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For we do not simply or absolutely attend or give heed unto men determining or defining against whom it is equall that we may define or declare our judgements So it is whilest the Authority of man or men any Society of men in the world is pleaded the Authority of others may be as good reason be objected against it as whilest you plead your Church and its definitions others may on as good grounds oppose theirs unto you therein And therefore Clemens proceeds 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For if it be not sufficient meerly to declare or assert that which appears to be truth but also to make that Credible or fit to be believed which is spoken we seek not after the Testimony that is given by men but we confirm that which is proposed or enquired about with the voice of the Lord which is more full than any demonstration or rather is its self the only demonstration according to the knowledge whereof they that have tasted of the Scriptures are believers Into the voice the Word of God alone the Church then resolved their Faith this only they built upon acknowledging all humane Testimony to be too weak and infirm to be made a foundation for it And this voice of God in the Scripture evidencing its self so to be is the only Demonstration of Faith which they rested in whereupon a little after he addes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so wee having perfect Demonstrations out of the Scriptures are by Faith demonstratively assured or perswaded of the Truth of the things proposed This was the Profession of the Church of old this the resolution of their faith This is that which Protestants in this Case adhere unto They proved the Scripture to be from God as he elswhere speaks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as
we also do Strom. 4. To this purpose speaks Salvianus de Gub. Lib. 3. Alia omnia idest humana dicta argumentis testibus egent Dei autem Sermo ipse sibi test is est quia necesseest ut quicquid incorrupta verityas loquitur incorruptum sit testimonium veritatis All other sayings stand in need of Arguments and witnesses to confirm them the Word of God is witness to its self For whatever the Truth incorrupted speaks must of necessity be an incorrupt Testimony of Truth And although some of them allowed the Testimony of the Church as a motive unto believing the Gospell or things preached from it yet as to the belief of the Scripiure with faith Divine and Supernaturall to be the Word of God they required but these two things 1. That Self-Evidence in the Scripture its self which is needfull for an indemonstrable Principle from which and by which all other things are to be demonstrated And that Self-Evidence Clemens puts in the place of all Demonstrations 2. The Efficacy of the Spirit in the heart to enable it to give a saving assent unto the Truth proposed unto it Thus Austin in his Confessions Lib. 6. cap. 5. Persuasisti mihi ô Domine Deus non eos qui crederent libris tuis quos tanta in omnibus ferè Gentibus authoritate fundasti esse culpandos sed eos qui non crederent new audiendesesse siqui mihi forte dicerent Unde scis illos libres unius veracissimi Dei Spirituesse humano generi ministratos idipsum enim maximè credendum erat O Lord God thou hast perswaded me that not they who believe thy Books which with so great Authority thou hast setled almost in all Nations were to be blamed but those who believe them not and that I should not hearken unto any of them who might chance to say unto me Whence dost thou know those Books to be given out unto mankind from the Spirit of the only True GOD for that is the thing which principally was to be believed In which words the holy man hath given us full direction what to say when you come upon us with that Question which some used it seems in his dayes A great Testimony of the Antiquity of your Principles Adde hereunto what he writes in the 11 th Book and 3 d Chapter of the same Treatise and wee have the summe of the Resolution and Principle of his Faith Audiam saith he intelligam quomodo fecisti Coelam terram Scripsit hoc Moses scripsit abiit transivit hinc ad Te. Neque enim nunc ante me est nam si esset tenerem eum rogaremeum per Teobsecrarem ut mihi ist a paâ—derct praberem aures corporis mei sonis erumpentibus ex ere ejus At si Hebraea voce loqueretur frustra pulsaret sensum meum nec inde mentem meam tangeret si autem Latinè scirem quid diceret sed Unde scirem an verum dicoret quod si hoc scirem num ab illâ— scirem Intus utique mihi intus in domicilio cogitationis nec Hebraea nec Graeca nec Latina nec barbara verityas sine oris linguae organis sine strepitu syllabarum diceret verum diâ—it ego statim â—â—tus confidenter illi homini tuo dicerem Verumolits Cum ergo illum interrogare non possim Te quo 〈◊〉 vera dixit Veritas rogo Te Deus meus rogo partepeccatis meis qui illi servo tuo dedisti haec dicere 〈◊〉 mihi haEc intelligere I would bear and understand O Lord how thou hast made the Heavens and the earth Moses wrote this he wrote it and is gene and he is gone to Thee For now he is not present with mee if he were I would lay hold on him and ask him and beseech him for thy sake that he would unfold these things unto me and I would cause the ears of my body to attend unto the words of his mouth But if he should speak in the Hebrew tongue he would only in vain strike upon my outward sense and my mind within would not be affected with it If he speak in Latine I should know what he sayed but whence should I know that he spake the Truth should I know this also from him The Truth that is neither Hebrew Greck Latine nor expressed in any Barbarous Language would say unto me inwardly in the dwelling place of my thoughts without the organs of mouth or tongue or noyse of syllables He speaks the Truth and I with confidaence should say unto him thy servam Thou speakest the Truth Seeing therefore I cannot enquire of him I beseech Thee that art Truth with whom he being filled spake the Truth I beseech thee O my God pardon my sinnes and thou who gavest unto him by servant to speak these things grant unto me tounderstand Thus this holy man ascribes his assent into the one unquestionable Principle of the Scripture as to the effecting of it in himself to the work if Gods Spirit in his heart As Basil also doth on Psal. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Faith which draws the soul unto consent above the efficacy of all rational wayes or methods of perswasion Faith that is wrought and begotten in us not by geometricall enforcements or demonstrations but by the effectuall operations of the Spirit And both these Principles are excellently expressed by one amongst your selves even Baptista Mantuanus Lib. de Patientia Cap. 32 33. Saepenumerò faith he mecum cogitavi Unde tam sâ—adibilis esset ista Scriptura ut tam potenter insluat in animos auditorum unde tantum habeat energiae ut non adopinandum sed ad solidè credendum omnes inflectat I have often thought with my self Whence the Scripture is so perswasive whence it doth so powerfully influence the minds of the hearers whence it hath so much efficacy that it should incline and bow all men not to think as probable but solidly to believe the things it proposeth Non saith he est hoc imputandum rationum evidentiaequas non adducit non artis industriae verbis suavibus ad persuadendum accommodatis quibus non utitur It is not to be ascribed unto the evidence of Reasons which it bringeth not neither to the excellency of Art sweet words and accommodated unto per swasion which it makes no use of Sed vide an id in causa sit quod persuasi sumus eam à prima veritate flâ—xisse But see if this be not the Cause of it that wee are perswaded that it proceeds from the prime Verity He proceeds Sed unde sumus ita persuasi nisi ab ipsa quasi ad ei credendum non sua ipsiâ—â— trahat Authoritas Sed unde quaeso hanc sibi Authoritatem vindicavit Neque enim vidimus nos Deum concionantem scribentem docentem tamen ac si vidissemus credimus tenemus à Spiritu Sancto fluxisse quod legimus Forsitan
And that A man once rid of his Authority may as easily deride and as solidly confute the Incarnation as the Sprinkling of Holy water so resolving our faith of the Incarnation of Christ into his Authority or Testimony Yea and in the same page That if it had not been for the Pope Christ himself had not been taken in the world for any such Person as he is believed this day And p. 378. to the same purpose The first great fundamental of Christian Religion which is the Truth and Divinity of Christ had it not been for him had failed long ago in the world with much more to the same purpose Hence it is evident that in your judgment all Truth and Certainty in Region depends on the Popes Anthority and Infallibility or as you express it his unerring guidance This is your Principle this you propose as the only medium to bring us unto that Settlement in Religion which you suppose the Scripture is not able to do What course should we now take would you have us believe you at the first word without further triall or examination would you have a man to do so who never before heard of Pope or Church We are commanded to try all things and to hold fast that which is good to try pretending Spirits and the Beraeans are commended for examining by the Scripture what Paul himself preached unto them An implicit Credulity given up to such Dictates is the height of Fanaticism Have wee not reason then to call you and your copartners in this design to an accoun â—how you prove that which you so strenuously assert and suppose and to examine the Principles of that Authority whereunto you resolve all your faith and Religion If upon mature consideration these prove Solid and the Inferences you make from them Cogent it is good Reason that you should be attended unto If they prove otherwise if the first be false and the latter Sophistical you cannot justly take it ill of him that shall advise you to take heed that whilest you are gloriously displaying your Colours the ground that you stand upon do not sink under your feet And here you are forced to go many a step backward to fix your first footing untill you leave your Pope quite out of sight from whence you advance towards him by severall degrees and so arive at his Supremacie and Infallibility and so we shall have Reditum Diomedis ab interitu Meleagri 1. Your first Principle to this purpose is That Peter was the Prince of the Apostles and that in him the Lord Jesus founded a Monarchy in his Church So pag. 360. you call him the head and Prince of the whole Congregation Now this wee think no meet Principle for any one to begin withall in asserting the foundation of Faith and Religion Nor do we think that if it were meet so to be used that it is any way subservient unto your design and purpose 1. A Principle fundamental or first entrance into any way of Settlement in Faith or Religion it cannot possibly be because it presupposeth the knowledg of and assent unto many other great fundamental Articles of Christian Religion yea upon the matter all that are so For before you can rationally talk with a man about Peters Principality and the Monarchical state of the Church hereon depending you must suppose that he believes the Scripture 〈◊〉 be the Word of God and all things that are taught therein concerning Jesus Christ his Person Nature Offices Work and Gospell to be certainly and infallibly true for they are all supposed in your Assertion which without the knowledg of them is uncouth horrid insignificant and forraign to all notions that a man can rationally entertain of God or Religion Nay no attempt of proof or confirmation can be given unto it but by and from Scripture whereby you fall directly into the Principle which you seek so carefully to avoid namely that the Scripture is the only way and means of setling us in the Truth since you cannot settle any man in the very first proposition which you make to lead him into another way but by the Scripture So powerfull is Truth that those who will not follow it willingly it will lead them captive in Triumph whether they will or no. 2. It is unmeet for any purpose because it is not true No one word from the Scripture can you produce in its confirmation wherein yet if it be not revealed it must pass as a very uncertain and frivolous conjecture You can produce no suffrage of the Ancient Church unto your purpose which yet if you could would not presently render any Assertion so confirmed infallibly certain much less fundamental Some indeed of the 4 th Century call Peter Principem Apostolorum but explain themselves to intend thereby 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the first or Leader not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Prince or Ruler And when the ambiguity of that word began to be abused unto pretensions of Preeminence the Council of Carthage expresly condemned it allowing none to be termed Princeps Sacerdotum Many in those dayes thought Peter to be among the Apostles like the Princeps Senatus or Princeps Civi atis the chief in their Assemblies or Principall in dignity how truly I know not but that he should be amongst them and over them a Prince in Office a Monarch as to Rule and Power is a thing that they never once dreamed of and the Asseveration of it is an open untruth The Apostles were equall in their Call Office Place Dignity Employments All the difference between them was in their Labours Sufferings and Success wherein Paul seems to have had the pre-eminence who as Peter and all the rest of the Apostles every one singly and for himself had the care of all the Churches committed unto him thought it may be for the better discharge of their Duty ordinarily they divided their work as they found it necessary for them to apply themselves unto it in particular See 2 Cor. 11. And this equality between the Apostles is more than once insinuated by Paul and that with speciall reference unto Peter 1 Cor. 1. Gal. 1. 18 19. ch 2. 9. And is it not wonderfull that if this Assertion should not only be true but such a Truth as on which the whole faith of the Church was to be built that the Scripture should be utterly silent of it that it should give us no Rules about it no directions to use and improve it afford us no one instance of the exercise of the Power and Authority intimated no not one but that on the contrary it should lay down Principles exclusive of it Matth. 22. 25 26. Luk. 22. 26. And when it comes to make an enumeration of all the Offices appointed by Christ in his Church Eph. 4. 11. should pass over the Prince and his Office in silence on which all the rest were to depend You see what a Foundation you begin to build upon a meer
abode of Peter there never once mentions him in any of the Epistles which from thence he wrote unto the Churches and his fellow labourers though he doth remember very many others that were with him in the City 7. He asserts that in one of his Epistles from thence which as I think sufficiently proves that Peter was not then there for he saies plainly that in his triall he was forsaken by all men that no man stood by him which he mentions as their sin and prays for pardon for them Now no man can reasonably think that Peter was amongst the number of them whom he complained of 8. The Story is not consistent with what is expresly written of Peter by Luke in the Acts and Paul in his Epistle to the Galatians Paul was converted unto the faith about the 38 th year of Christ or 5 th after his Ascension After this he continued 3 years preaching the Gospel about Damascus and in Arabia In the 40 th or 41 st year of Christ he came to Jerusalem to conferr with Peter Gal. 1. which was the first of Claudius As yet therefore Peter was not removed out of Judaea 14 years after that is either after his first going up to Jerusalem or rather 14 years after his first Conversion he went up again to Jerusalem and found Peter still there which was in the 52 d year of Christ and the 13 th of laudius Or if you should take the date of the 14 years mentioned by him shorter by 5 or 6 years and reckon their beginning from the passion and Resurrection of Christ which is not improbable then this going up of Paul to Hierusalem will be found to be the same with his going up to the Councel from Antioch about the 6 th or rather 7 th year of Claudius Peter was then yet certainly at Hierusalem That is about the 46 th year of Christ some while after you would have the Church to be founded by him at Rome After this when Paul had taken a long progress through many Countreys wherein he must needs spend some years returning unto Antioch Act. 18. 22. he there again met with Peter Gal. 2. 11. Peter being yet still in the East to wards the end of the Raign of Claudius At Antioch where Paul found him if any of your Witnesses may be believed he abode 7 years Besides he was now very old and ready to lay down his mortality as our Lord had shewed him and in all probability after his remove from Antioch spent the residue of his dayes in the Eastern Dispersion of the Jews For 9 ly much of the Apostles work in Palestine among the Jews was now drawing to an end the elect being gathered in troubles were growing upon the Nation and Peter had as we observed before agreed with Paul to take the Care of the Circumcision of whom the greatest number by far excepting only Judaea its self was in Babylon and the Eastern Nations about it Now whether these and the like observations out of the Scripture concerning the Course of S t Peters life be not sufficient to out-ballance the Testimony of your disagreeing Witnesses impartial and unprejudiced men may judge For my part I do not intend to conclude peremptorily from them that Peter was never at Rome or never preached the Gospel there but that your Assertion of it is improbable and built upon very Questionable grounds that I suppose I may safely conclude And God forbid that we should once imagine the present faith of Christians or their Profession of Christian Religion to be built upon such uncertain Conjectures or to be concerned in them whether they be true or false Nothing can be spoken with more reproach unto it than to say that it stands in need of such supportment And yet if this one Supposition fail you all your building falls to the ground in a moment Never was so stupendous a fabrick raised on such imaginary foundations But that we may proceed Let us suppose this also that Peter was at Rome and preached the Gospel there What will thence follow unto your advantage what towards the settlement of any man in Religion or bringing us unto the Unity of faith the things enquired after He was at he preached the Gospel at Hierusalem Samaria Joppa Antioch Babylon and sundry other places and yet we find no such Consequences pleaded from thence as you urge from his Coming to Rome Wherefore you adde 1 V. That St Peter was Bishop of the Roman Church that he fixed his seat there and there he died In gathering up your Principles I follow the footsteps of Bellarmine Baronius and other great Champions of your Church so that you cannot except against the method of our proposals of them Now this Conclusion is built on these three Suppositions 1. That Peter had an Episcopal Office distinct from his Apostolical 2. That he was at Rome 3. That he fixed his Episcopal Sea there whereof the Second is very Questionable the First and Last are absolutely false So that the Conclusion its self must needs be a notable fundamentall Principle of Faith It is true and I shewed it before that the Apostles when they came into any Church did exercise all the Power of Bishops in and over that Church but not as Bishops but as Apostles As a King may in any of the Cities of his dominions where he comes exercise all the Authority of the Mayor or particular Governour of that place where he is which yet doth not make him become the Mayor of the place which would be a diminution of his royall Dignity No more did the Apostles become Local Bishops because of their exercising Episcopal Power in any particular Church by virtue of their Authority Apostolical wherein that other was included as hath been declared And Cui Bono to what purpose serves this fictitious Episcopacy All the Priviledges that you contend for the Assignation of unto Peter were beâ—â—owed upon him as an Apostle or as a believing disciple of Christ. As such he had those peculiar grants made unto him The Keys of the Kingdome of heaven were given unto him as an Apostle or according to S t Austin as a believer as such was he commanded to feed the sheep of Christ. It was unto him as an Apostle or a professing believer that Christ promised to build the Church on the faith that he had professed You reckon all these things among the priviledges of Peter the Apostle who as such is said to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or first in order As an Apostle he had the Care of all Churches committed unto him As an Apostle he was divinely inspired and enabled infallibly to reveal the mind of Christ. All these things belonged unto him as an Apostle and what Priviledge he could have besides as a Bishop neither you nor I can tell no more than you can when how or by whom he was called and ordained unto any such office all which we know well enough concerning
his Apostleship If you will then have any to succeed him in the enjoyment of any or of all these Privileges you must bespeak him to succeed him in his Apostleship and not in his Bishoprick Besides as I said before this imaginary Episcopacy which limits and confines him unto a particular Church as it doth if it be an Episcopacy properly so called is destructive of his Apostolical Office and of his Duty in answering the Commission given him of preaching the Gospel to every Creature following the Guidance of Gods Providence and conduct of the Holy Ghost in his way Many of the Ancients I confess affirm that Peter sate Bishop of the Church of Rome but they all evidently use the word in a large sense to imply that during his abode there for that there he was they did suppose be took upon him the especial Care of that Church For the same Persons constantly affirm that Paul also was Bishop of the same Church at the same time which cannot be otherwise understood than in the large sense mentioned And Ruffinus Prafat Recog Clement ad Gâ—udent unriddles the mystery Linus saith he Clâ—tus fuerunt ante Clementem Episcopi in â—rbe Roma sed superstite Petro videlicet at illi Episcopatûs Curam gererent iste verò Apostolatûs simpleret officium Linus and Cletus were Bishops in the City of Rome before Clemens but whilest Peter was yet alive they performing the Duty of Bishops Peter attending unto his office Apostolical And hereby doth he utterly discard the present new plea of the foundation of your faith For though he assert that Peter the Apostle was at Rome yet he denies that he ever sate Bishop there but names two others that ruled that Church at Rome joyntly during his time either in one Assembly or in two the one of the Circumcision the other of the Gentile-Converts And if Peter were thus Bishop of Rome and entred as you say upon his Episcopacy at his first coming thither whence is it that you are forced to confess that he was so long absent from his charge Five years saith Bellarmine but that will by no means salve the Difficulty Seven saith Onuphrius at once and abiding at one place the most part of his time besides being spent in other places and yet allowing him no time at all for those places where he certainly was Eighteen saith Cortefius strange that he should be so long absent from his especiall Cure and never write one word to them for their instruction or consolation whereas in the mean time he wrote two Epistles unto them who it seems did not in any speciall manner belong unto his Charge I wish we could once find our way out of this maze of uncertainties This is but a sad disquisition after Principles of faith to settle men in Religion by them And yet if we should suppose this also wee are farre enough from our journeys end The present Bishop of Rome is as yet behind the curtain neither can he appear upon the stage untill hâ— be ushered in by one pretence more of the same nature with them that went before And this is V. That some one must needs succeed Peter in his Episcopacy But why so why was it not needfull that one should succeed him in his Apostleship Why was it not needfull that Paul should have a successor as well as Peter and John as well as either of them Because you say that was necessary for the Church not so these But who told you so where is the proof of what you averre who made you judges of what is necessary and what is not necessary for the Church of Christ when himself is silent And why is not the succession of an Apostle necessary as well as of such a Bishop as you fancie had it not been better to have had one still residing in the Church of whose Infallibility there could have been no doubt or question One that had the power of working Miracles that should have no need to scare the people by shaking fire out of his slieve as your Pope Gregory the 7 th was wont to do if Cardinall Benno may be believed But you have now carried us quite off from the Scripture and Story and probable conjectures to attend unto you whilest you give the Lord Jesus prudentiall advice about what is necessary for his Church It must needs be so it is meet it should be so is the best of your proof in this matter Only your fratres Walenburgici adde that never any man ordained the Government of a Community more weakly than Christ must be supposed to have done the Government of his Church if he have not appointed such a Successour to Peter as you imagin But it is easie for you to assert what you please of this nature and as easie for any one to reject what you so assert if he please These things are without the verge of Christian Religion 〈◊〉 Towers and Palaces in the ayr But what must S t Peter be succeeded in his Episcopacy and what therewithall his Authority Power and Jurisdiction over all Churches in the world with an unerring judgement in matters of faith But all these belonged unto Peter as far as ever they belonged unto him as he was an Apostle long before you fancie him to have been a Bishop As then his Episcopacy came without these things so for ought you know it might goe without it This is a matter of huge importance in that Systeme of Principles which you tender unto us to bring us unto settlement in Religion and the Unity of Faith would you would consider a little how you may give some tolerable appearance of proof unto that which the Scripture is so utterly silent in yea which lyes against the whole Oeconomy of the Lord Jesus Christ in his ordering of his Church as delivered unto us therein dic aliquem dic Quintiliane colorem But we come now to the Pope whom here we first find latentem post Priâ—cipia and coming forth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with his Claim For you say VI. That the Bishop of Rome is the man that thus suecceds Peter in his Episcopacy which though it were settled at Rome was over the whoee Catholick Church So you say and so you profess your selves to believe And we desire that you would not take it amiss if we desire to know upon what grounds you do so being unwilling to cast away all Consideration that we may embrace a fanatical Credo in this unlikely business We desire therefore to know who appointed that there should be any such succession who that the Bishop of Rome should be this Successor Did Jesus Christ do it we may justly expect you should say He did but if you do we desire to know when where how seeing the Scripture is utterly silent of say such thing Did S t Peter himself do it Pray manifest unto us that by the appointment of Jesus Christ he had power so to do and that
secondly he actually did so Neither of these can you prove or produce any Testimony worth crediting in confirmation of it Did it necessarily follow from hence because that was the place where Peter died But this was accidentall a thing that Peter thought not of for you say that a few dayes before his death he was leaving that place Besides according to this insinuation why did not every Apostle leave a Successour behind him in the place where he dyed and that by vertue of his dying in that place or produce you any Patent granted to Peter in especiall that where he dyed there he should leave a Successour behind him But it seems the whole weight of your faith is layed upon a matter of fact accidentally falling out yea and that very incertain whether ever it fell out or no. Shew us any thing of the will and institution of Christ in this matter As that Peter should go to Rome that he should fix his seat there that he should dye there that he should have a Successour that the Bishop of Rome should be his Successour that unto this Successour I know not what nor how many Priviledges should be conveyed All these are arbitrary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Inventions that men may multiply in infinitum at their pleasure For what should set bounds to the imaginations of men when once they cast off all Reverence of Christ and his Truth Once more Why did not Peter fix a Seat and leave a Successor at Antioâ—h and in other places where he abode and preached and exetcised Episcopal Power without all question Was it because he dyed at Rome This is to acknowledg that the whole Papacy is built as was said upon an accidentall matter of fact and that supposed not proved Further if he must be supposed to succeed Peter I desire to know what that succession is and wherein he doth succeed him Doth he succeed him in all that hee had and was in reference unto the Church of God Doth he succeed him in the manner of his Call to his Office Peter was called immediately by Christ in his own Person the Pope is chosen by the Conclave of Cardinals concerning whom their Office Priviledges Power Right to choose the Successour of Peter there is not one iota in the Scripture or any Monuments of the best Antiquity and how in their Election of Popes they have been influenced by the interest of powerfull Strumpets your own Baronius will inform you Doth he succeed him in the way and manner of his Personal Discharge of his Office and imployment Not in the least Peter in the pursuit of his Commission and in obedience unto the command of his Lord and Master travailed up and down the world preaching the Gospel planting and watering the Churches of Christ in patience self-deniall humility zeal temperance meekness The Pope raigns at Rome in case exalting himself above the Kings of the earth without taking the least pains in his own Person for the conversion of Sinners or edification of the Disciples of Christ Doth he succeed him in his Personal Qualifications which were of such extraordinary advantage unto the Church of God in his dayes his Faith Love Holiness Light and Knowledg you will not say so Many of your Popes by your own confession have been ignorant and stupid many of them flagitiously wicked to say no more Doth he succeed him in the way and manner of his exercising his Care and Authority towards the Churches of Christ as little as the rest Peter did it by his prayers for the Churches personal visitation and instruction of them writing by inspiration for their direction and guidance according to the will of God The Pope by Bulls and Consistorial Determinations executed by intricate Legal Processes and Officers unknown not only to Peter but all Antiquity whose ways practices orders terms S t Peter himself were he upon the earth again would very little understand Doth he succeed him in his Personal Infallibility agree among your selves if you can and give an answer unto this inquiry Doth he succeed him in his power of working Miracles you do not so much as pretend thereunto Doth he succeed him in the Doctrine that he taught it hath been proved unto you a thousand times that he doth not and wee are still ready to prove it again if you call us thereunto Wherein then doth this Succession consist that you talk of In his Power Authority Jurisdiction Supremacy Monarchy with the Secular Advantages of Riches Honour and pomp that attend them things sweet and desireable unto carnall mindes This is the Succession you pretend to plead for And are you not therein to be commended for your wisdome In the things that Peter really enjoyed and which were of singular Spiritual advantage unto the Church of God you disclaim any Succession unto him and fix it on things wherein he was no way concerned that make for your own Secular advantage and interest You have certainly layed your design very well if these things would hold good to Eternity For hence it is that you draw out the Monarchy of your Pope direct and absolute in Ecclesiasticall things over the whole Church indirect at least and in ordine ad Spiritualia over the whole world This the Diana in making of Shrines for whom your occupation consists and it brings no small gains unto you Hence you wire-draw his Cathedrall Infallibility Legislative Authority Freedom from the Judgment of any whereby you hope to secure him and your selves from all opposition endeavouring to terrifie them with this Medusa's head that approach unto you Hence are his Titles The Vicar of Christ Head and Spouse of his Church Vice-Deus Dius alter in Terris and the like where by you keep up popular venexation and preserve his Majestick distance from the poor Disciples of Christ. Hence you warrant his practices suited unto these pretensions and Titles in the deposing of Kings transposing of Titles unto Dominion and Rule giving away of Kingdoms stirring up and waging mighty warres causing and commanding them that dissent from him or refuse to yield obedience unto him to be destroyed with fire and sword And who can now question but that you have very wisely stated your Succession This is the way this the progress whereby you pretend to bring us unto the Vnity of faith If we will submit unto the Pope and acquiesce in his Determinations whereunto to induce us we have the Cogent Reasons now considered the work will be effected This is the way that God hath as you pretend appointed to bring us unto Settlement in Religion These things you have told us so often and with so much Confidence that you take it ill we should question the truth of any thing you averr in the whoe matter and look upon us as very ignorant or unreasonable for our so doing Yea he that believes it safer for him to trust the everlasting concernments of his soul unto the Goodness Grace and Faithfulness of
Church yield any obedience or perform any acceptable worship unto God but what was founded on and regulated by his Word given unto them antecedently unto their obedience and worship to be the sole foundation and Rule of it That you have no concernment in what is or may be truly spoken of the Church we shall afterwards shew but it is not for the interest of Truth that wee should suffer you without controul to impose such absurd notions on the minds of men especially when you pretend to direct them unto a Settlement in Religion Alike true is it that the Church gives Authority unto the Scripture Every true Church indeed gives witness or Testimony unto it and it is its Duty so to do it holds it forth declares and manifests it so that it may be considered and taken notice of by all which is one main End of the Institution of the Church in this world But the Church no more gives Authority to the Scripture than it gives Authority to God himself He requires of men the discharge of that Duty which he hath assigned unto them but stands not in need of their suffrage to confirm his Authority It was not so indeed with the Idols of old of whom Tertullian said rightly Si Deus homini non placuerit Deus non erit The reputation of their Deity depended on the Testimony of men as you say that of Christ's doth on the Authority of the Pope But I shall not farther insist upon the disprovement of this vanity having shewed already that the Scripture hath all its Authority both in its self and in reference unto us from Him whose Word it is and wee have also made is appear that your Assertions to the contrary are meet for nothing but to open a door unto all Irreligiousness Prophaneness and Atheism so that there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nothing sound or savoury nothing which an heart carefull to preserve its Loyalty unto God will not nauseate at nothing not suited to oppugn the fundamentals of Christian Religion in this your Position This ground well fixed you tell us 11. That the Church is infallible or cannot erre in what she teacheth to be believed And we ask you what Church you mean and how far you intend that it is infallible The only known Church which was then in the world was in the Wilderness when Moses was in the mount Was it infallible when it made the golden Calf and danced about it proclaiming a feast unto Jebovah before the Calf was the same Church afterward Infallible in the dayes of the Judges when it worshipped Baalim and Aftaroth or in the dayes of Jeroboam when it sacrificed before the Calves at Dan and Bethel or in the other branch of it in the dayes of Ahaz when the High-Priest set up an Altar in the Temple for the King to offer Sacrifice unto the gods of Damascus or in the dayes of Jehoiakiâ— and Zedekiah when the High-Priest with the rest of the Priests imprisoned and would have slain Jeremiah for preaching the word of God or when they preferred the worship of the Queen of Heaven before that of the God of Abraham Or was it infallible when the High-Priest with the whole Councel or Saâ—edrim of the Church judicially condemned as far as in them lay their own Messias and rejected the Gospel that was preached unto them You must inform us what other Church was them in the world or you will quickly perceive how ungrounded your generall Maxim is of the Churches absolute infallibility As farre indeed as it attends unto the Infallible Rule given unto it it is so but not one jot farther Moreover we desire to know What Church you mean in your Assertion or rather what is it that you mean by the Church Do you intend the Mystical Church or the whole number of Gods Elect in all Ages or in any Age militant on the Earth which principally is the Church of God Ephes. 5. 26 Or do you intend the whole diffused body of the Disciples of Christ in the world separated to God by Baptism and the Profession of saving truth which is the Church Catholick visible Or do you mean any particular Church as the Roman or constantinopolitan the French Dutch or English Church If you intend the first of These or the Church in the first sense we acknowledge that it is thus far infallible that no true member of it shall ever totally and finally renounce lose or forsake that faith without which they cannot please God and be saved This the Scripture teacheth this Austin confirmeth in an bundred places If you intend the Church in the second sense we grant that also so far unerring and infallible as that there ever was and ever shall be in the world a number of men making Profession of the saving Truth of the Gospel and yielding professed subjection unto our Lord Jesus Christ according unto it wherein consists his visible Kingdome in this world that never was that never can be utterly overthrown If you speak of a Church in the last sense then we tell you That no such Church is by virtue of any Promise of our Lord Jesus Christ freed from erring yea so farre as to deny the fundamentals of Christianity and thereby to lose the very being of a Church Whilst it continues a Church it cannot erre fundamentally because such Errours destroy the very being of a Church but those who were once a Church by their failing in the Truth may cease to be so any longer And a Church as such may so fail though every Person in it do not so for the individual members of it that are so also of the Mysticall Church shall be preserved in its Apostasie And so the Mysticall Church and the Catholick Church of Professors may be continued though all particular Churches should fail So that no Person the Church in no sense is absolutely freed in this world from the danger of all errours that is the condition wee shall attain in Heaven here where we know butin part wee are incapable of it The Church of the Elect and every member of it shall eventually be preserved by the power of the Holy Ghost from any such errour as would utterly destroy their Communion with Christ in Grace here or prâ—vent their fruition of him in Glory hereafter or as the Apostle speaks they shall assuredly be kept by the Power of God through faith unto salvation The Generall Church of Visible Professors shall be alwayes so farre preserved in the world as that there shall never want some in some place or other of it that shall profess all needfull saving Truths of the Gospel in the belief whereof and obedience whereunto a man may be saved But for Particular Churches as such they have no security but what lyes in their diligent attendance unto that Infallible Rule which will preserve them from all hutfull Errours if through their own default they neglect not to keep close unto it And your
flattering your selves with an imagination of any other Priviledge is that which hath wrought your ruine You are deceived if in this matter you are of Menander's mind who sayed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that all will of its own accord fall out well with you though you sleep securely As for all other Churches in the world besides your own wee have your concession not only that they were and are fallible but that they have actually erred long since and the same hath been proved against yours a thousand times and your best Reserve against particular charges of Errour lyes in this impertinent generall pretence that you cannot erre It may be you will ask for you use so to do and it is the design of your Fiat to promote the â—nquiry If the Church be fallible that is to propose unto us the things and Doctrines that we are to believe How can we with faith infallible believe her proposals And I tell you truly I know not how we can if we believe them only upon her Authority or she propose them to be believed solely upon that account but when she proposeth them unto us to be believed on the Authority of God speaking in the Srciptures we both can and do believe what she teacheth and proposeth and that with faith infallible resolved into the Veracity of God in his Word and we grant every Church to be so farre infallible as it attends unto the only Infallible Rule amongst men When you prove that any one Church is by any promise of Christ any grant of Priviledge expressed or intimated in the Scripture placed in an unerring condition any farther than as in the use of the means appointed she attends unto the only Rule of her preservation or that any Church shall be â—ecessitated to attend unto that Rule whether she will or no whereby she may be preserved or can give us an instance of any Church since the foundation of the world that hath been actually preserved and absolutely from all errour other than that of your own which you know we cannot admit of as you will do 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a great and memorable work so we shall grant as much as you can reasonably desire of us upon the account of the Assertion under consideration But untill you do some one or all of these your crying out The Church the Church the Church cannot erre makes no other noyse in our ears than that of the Jews The Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord the Law shall not fail did in the ears of the Prophets of old Neither do we speak this of the Church or any Church as though we were concerned to question or deny any just Priviledges belonging unto it thereby to secure our selves from any pretensions of yours but meerly for the sake of Truth For we shall manifest anon unto you that you are as little concerned in the Priviledges of the Church be they what they will more or less as any Society of the Professours of Christianity in the world if so be that you are concerned in them at all So that if the Truth would permit us to agree with you in all things that you assign unto the Church yet the difference between you and us were never the nearer to an end for we should still differ with you about your share and interest therein and for ever abhor your frowardness in appropriating of them all unto your selves And herein as I sayed hath lyen a great part of your ruine Whilest you have been sweetly dreaming of an Infallibility you have really plunged your selves into errours innumerable and when any one hath jogged you to awake you out of your fatall sleep by minding you of your particular errours your dream hath left such an impression upon your imagination as that you think them no errours upon this only ground because you cannot erre I am perswaded had it not been for this one errour you had been freed from many others But this perfectly disiâ—ables you for any candid Inquisition after the Truth For why should he once look about him or indeed so much as take care to keep his eyes open who is sure that he can never be out of his way Hence you inquire not at all whether what you profess be Truth or not but to learn what your Church teacheth and defend it is all that you have to do about Religion in this world And whatever Absurdities or Inconveniencies you find your selves driven unto in the handling of particular points all is one they must be right though you cannot defend them because your Church which cannot erre hath so declared them to be And if you should chance to be convinced of any Truth in particular that is contrary to the determination of your Church you know not how to embrace it but must shut your eyes against its light and evidence and cast it out of your minds or wander up and down with a various assent between Contradictions Well said he of old 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This is flat folly namely for a man to live in rebellion unto his own light But you adde III. That your selves that is the Pope with those who in matters of Religion adhere unto him and live in subjection unto him are this Church in an assent unto whose infallible teachings and Determinations the Vnity of Faith doth consist Could you prove this Assertion I confess it would stand you in good stead But before we enquire aftes that we shall endeavour a little to come unto a right understanding of what you say When you affirm tâ—at the Roman Church is the Church of Christ you intend either that it is the only Church of Christ all the Church of Christ and so consequently the Catholick Church or you mean that it is a Church of Christ which hath an especiall Prerog ative enabling it to require obedience of all the Disciples of Christ. If you say the former we desire to know 1. when it became so to be It was not so when all the Church was together at Hierusâ—lem and no foundation of any Church at all laid at Rome Acts 1. 1 2 3 4 5. It was not so when the first Church of the Gentiles was gathered at Antioch and the Disciples first began to be called Christians for as yet we have no tydings of any Church at Rome It was not so when Paul wrote his Epistles for he makes express mention of many other Church in other places which had no relation unto any Churches at Rome more than they had one to another in their common Profession of the same faith and therein enjoyed equall gifts and Priviledges with it It was not so in the dayes of the Primitive Fathers of the first three hundred years who all of them not one excepted took the Roman to be a local particular Church and the Bishop of Rome to be such a Bishop as they esteemed of all other Churches and Bishops
Their perswasion in this matter is expressed in the beginning of the Epistle of Clemens or Church of Rome unto the Church of Corinth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Church that is at Rome to the Church that is at Corinth both locall Churches both equall And such is the language of all the Writers of those times It was not so in the dayes of the Fathers and Councels of the next three Centuries who still accounted it a particular Church Diocesaen or Patriarchal but all of them particular never calling it Catholick but upon the account of its holding the Catholick faith as they called all other Churches that did so in opposition to the Errours Heresies and Schilms of any in their dayes We desire then to know when it became the only or absolutely Catholick Church of Christ As also secondly by what means it became so to be It did not do so by virtue of any Institution Warrant or Command of Christ You were never able to produce the least intimation of any such Warrant out of any Writing of Divine Inspiration nor approved Catholick Writer of the first Ages after Christ though it hugely concern you so to do if it were possible to be done but they all expresly teach that which is inconsistent with such pretences It did not do so by any Decree of the first Generall Councels which are all of them silent as to any such thing and some of them as those of Nice Ephesus and Chalcâ—don expresly declare and determine the contrary at least that which is contrary thereunto We can find no other way or means whereby it can pretend unto this vast Priviledge unless it be the grant of Phocas unto Boniface that he should be called the Vniversal Bishop who to serve his own ends was very liberal of that which was not at all in his power to bestow And yet neither is this though it be a means that you have more reason to be ashamed than to boast of sufficient to found your present Claim considering how that name was in those dayes no more than a name a meer aâ—ry ambitions Title that carried along with it no reall power and stet magni nominis umbra Secondly We cannot give our assent unto this Claim of yours because we should thereby be necessitated to cut off from the Church and consequently all hope of salvation farre the greatest number of men in the world who in this and all foregoing Ages have called and do call upon the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ their Lord and ours This we dare not do especially considering that many of them have spent and do spend their dayes in great Affliction for their Testimony unto Christ and his Gospell and many of them every day seal their Testimony with their blood so belonging as we believe unto that holy army of Martyrs which continually praiseth God Now as herein we dare not concurre with you considering the charge given unto Timothy by Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be not partaker of other mens sins so indeed we are perswaded that your opinion or rather presumption in this matter is extreamly injurious to the Grace of Christ the Love and Goodness of God as also to the Truth of the Gospell And therefore Thirdly We suppose this the most Schismaticall Principle that ever was broached under the Sun since there was a Church upon the earth and that because 1. It is the most groundless 2. The most unchritable that ever was and 3. Of the most pernicious consequence as having a principal influence into the present irreconcileableness of Differences among Christians in the world which will one day be charged on the Authors and Abettors of it For it will one day appear that it is not the various Conceptions of the minds of peaceable men about the things of God nor the various degrees of knowledge and faith that are found amongst them but groundless impositions of things as necessary to be believed and practised beyond Scripture warrant that are the Springs and Causes of all or at least the most blameable and sinfull differences among Christians Fourthly We know this pretence should it take place would prove extreamly hazardous unto the Truth of the Promises of Christ given unto the Catholick Church For suppose that to be one and the same with the Roman and whatever mishap may befall the one must be thought to befall the other for on your Supposition they are not only like Hippocrates twins that being born together wept and joyed together and together died but like Hippocrates himself as the same individuall Person or thing being both the same one Church that hath two names Catholick and Roman that is Universall-Particular no otherwise two than as Julius Caesar was when by his overawing his Collegue from the execution of his Office they dated their Acts at Rome Julio Casare Consulibus For as they said Non Bibulo quiâ—quam nuper sed Caesare factum est Nani Bibulo fieri Consule nil memini Now besides the failings which we know your Church to have been subject unto in point of Faith Manners and Worship it hath also been at least in danger of Destruction in the time of the prevalency of the Gâ—ths Vandals Huns and Longobards especially when Rome its self was left desolate and without Inhabitant by Totilas And what yet farther may befall it before the End of the world 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Only this I know that many are in expectation of a sad Catastrophe to be given unto it and that on grounds not to be despised Now God forbid that the Church unto which the Promises are made should be once thought to be subject unto all the dangers and hazards that you wilfully expose your selves unto So that as this is a very groundless presumption in its self so it is a very great aggravation of your miscarriages also whilest you seek to entitle the Catholick Church of Christ unto them which can neither contract any such guilt as you have done nor be liable to any such misery or punishment as you are Fifthly We see not the Promises made unto the Catholick Church fulfilled unto you as we see that to have befallen your Church which is contrary unto the Promises that ever is should befall the Catholick The conclusion then will necessarily on both instances follow that either your are not the Catholick Church or that the Promises of Christ have failed and been of none effect And you may easily guess which part of the Conclusion it is best and most safe for us to give assent unto I shall give you one or two instances unto this last head Christ hath promised his Spirit unto his Church that is the Catholick Church to abide with it for ever Joh. 14. 16. But this Promise hath not been made good unto your Church at all times because it hath not been so unto the head of it Many a time the Head of your Church hath not received the Spirit of Christ
for our Saviour tells us in the next words that the world cannot receive him that is men of the world carnally minded men cannot do so for he is the peculiar inheritance of those that are called sanctified and do believe Now if ever there was any world in the world any of the world in the earth some many of your Popes have been so and therefore by the testimony of Christ could not receive the Spirit that he promised unto his Church Again it is promised unto the Church Mysticall or Catholick in the first and chiefest notion of it that all her children shall be holy all taught of God and all that are so taught as our Saviour informs us come to him by saving faith you will not I am sure for shame affirm that this Promise hath been made good to all either Children or Fathers of your Church Innumerable other Promises made to the Catholick Church may be instanced in which you can no better or otherwise apply unto your Church than one of your Popes did that of the Psalmist to himself Thou shalt tread on the Lion and the Basilisk when he set his foot on the neck of Fredrick the Emperour But the Arguments are endless whereby the vanity of this pretence may be disproved I shall only adde Sixtly That it is contrary to all Story Reason and common sense For it is notorious that far the greatest part of Christians that belong to the Catholick Church of Christ of have done so from the dayes that Christianity first entred the world successively in all Ages never thought themselves any otherwise concerned in the Roman Church than in any other particular Church of name in the world And is it not a madness to exclude them all from being Christians or belonging to the Catholick Church because they belonged not to the Roman This I could easily demonstrate throughout all Ages of the Church successively But we need not insist longer on the disproving of that Assertion which implyes a flat Contradiction in the very terms of it If any Church be the Catholick it cannot therefore be the Roman and if it be the Roman properly it cannot therefore be the Catholick 2. If you shall say that you mean only that you are a Particular Church of Christ but yet that or such a Particular Church as hath the great Priviledges of Infallibility and universall Authority annexed unto it which makes it of necessity for all men to submit unto it and to acquiesce in its Determinations I answer 1. I fear you will not say so you will not I fear renounce your claim unto Catholicism I have already observed that your self in particular affirm the Roman and Catholick Church to be one and the same It is not enough for you that you belong any way to the Church of Christ but you plead that none do so but your selves 2. Indeed you do not own your selves in this very Assertion to be a Particular Church your claim of Universall Authority and Jurisdiction which you still carry along with you is inconsistent with any such concession 3. To make the best of it that we can what ground have you to give us this Difference between the Churches of Christ that one is fallible another infallible that one hath power over all the rest that one depends on Christ all the rest on that one where is the least intimation given of any such thing in the Scripture where or by whom is it expresly asserted amongst the Antient Writers of the Church Was this Principle pleaded or once asserted in any of the Antient Councels Some ambiguous expressions of particular Persons most of them Bishops of Rome in the declining days of the Church you produce indeed unto this purpose But can any rationall man think them a sufficient foundation of that stupendious fabrick which you endeavour to erect upon them I suppose you will not find any such Persons hasty in their so doing Those who are already engaged will not be easily recovered For new Proselytes unto these Principles you have small ground to expect any unless it be of Persons whose lives are either tainted with sensuality which they would gladly have a refuge for against the accusations of their Consciences or whose minds are entangled with worldly secular advantages suited to their conditions tempers and inclinations Thus I have with what briefness I could shewed you the uncertainty indeed falsness of those Generall Principles from which you educe all your other pleas and reasonings into which they must be resolved And now I pray consider the ground-work you lay for the bringing of men unto a Settlement in the Truth and unto the unity of Faith in opposition to the Scripture which you reject as insufficient unto this purpose The summe of it is an acquiesceney in the proposals and Determinations of your Church as to all things that concern faith and the worship of God The two main Principles that concurre unto it we have apart considered and have found them every way insufficient for the end proposed Neither have they one jot more of strength when they are complicated and blended together as they usually are by you than they have in and of themselves as they stand singly on their own bottoms A thousand falshoods put together will be farre enough from making one Truth A multiplication of them may encrease a Sophism but not adde the least weight or strength to an Argument An army of Cripples will not make one sound man And can you think it reasonable that we should renounce our sure and firm Word of Prophecy to attend unto you in this chase of uncertain Conjectures and palpable untruths Suppose this were a way that would bring you and us to an Agreement and take away the evil of our Differences I can name you twenty that would do it as effectually and they should none of them have any evil in them but only that whch yours also is openly guilty of namely the Relinquishment of our Duty towards God and Care of our own Souls to come to some peace amongst our selves in this world which would be nothing else but a plain Conspiracy against Jesus Christ and rejection of his Authority At present I shall say no more but that he who is lead into the Truth by so many Errors and is brought unto establishments by so many uncertainties hath singular success and such as no other man hath reason to look for Or he is like Robert Duke of Normandy who when he caused the Saracens to carry him into Jerusalem sent word unto his friends in Europe that he was carried into Heaven on the backs of Devils It may also in particular be easily made to appear how unsuited your means of bringing men unto the unity of faith are unto that Supposition of the present Differences in Religion between you and us which you proceed upon For suppose a man be convinced that many things taught by your Church are false and contrary to the
mind of God as you know the case to be between you and us what course would you take with him to reduce him unto the Unity of Faith would you tell him that your Church cannot erre or would you endeavour to perswade him that the particulars which he instanceth in as Errours are not so indeed but real Truths and necessarily by him to be believed The former if you would speak it out down-right and openly as becometh men who distrust not the Truth of their Principles for he that is perswaded of the Truth never fears its strength would soon appear to be a very wise course indeed You would perswade a man in generall that you cannot erre whilest he gives you instances that you have actually erred Do not think you have any Sophisms against Motion in generall that will prevail with any man to assent unto you whilest he is able to rise and walk to and fro Besides he that is convinced of any thing wherein you erre believes the opposite unto it to be true and that on grounds unto him sufficiently cogent to require his assent If you could now perswade him that you cannot erre whilest he actually believes things to be true which he knows to be contrary to your Determination what a sweet condition should you bring him into can you enable him to believe Contradictions at the same time Or when a man on particular grounds and evidences is come to a setled firm perswasion that any Doctrine of your Church suppose that of Transubstantiation is false and contradictory unto Scripture and right Reason if you should abstracting from particulars in generall puzzle him with Sophisms and pretences for your Churches Infallibility do you think it is an easie thing for him immediately to forego that perswasion in particular which his mind upon cogent and to him unavoidable grounds and arguments was possessed withall without a rationall removall of those grounds and Arguments Mens belief of things never pierces deeper into their Souls than their imagination who can take it up and lay it down at their pleasure I am perswaded therefore you would take the latter course and strive to convince him of his mistakes in the things that he judgeth erroneous in the Doctrine of your Church And what way would you proceed by for his Conviction Would you not produce Testimonies of Scripture with Arguments drawn from them and the Suffrage of the Fathers to the same purpose Nay would you not do so if the errour he charge you withall be that of the Authority and Infallibility of your Church I am sure all your Controversie-Writers of note take this course And do you not see then that you are brought whether you will or no unto the use of that way and means for the reducing of men unto the Unity of Faith which you before rejected which Protestants avow as sufficient to that purpose CHAP. IX Proposals from Protestant Principles tending unto Moderation and Unity YOu may from what hath been spoken perceive how upon your own Principles you are utterly disenabled to exercise any true moderation towards Dissenters from you And that which you do so exercise we are beholding for it as Cicero said of the Honesty of some of the Epicureans to the Goodness of their Nature which the illness of their Opinions cannot corrupt Neither are you any way enabled by them to reduce men unto the Vnity of Faith so that you are not more happy in your proposing of Good Ends unto your self than you are unhappy in chusing mediums for the effecting of them It may be for your own skill you are able like Archimedes to remove the earthly-Bull of our Contentions but you are like him again that you have no where to stand whilest you go about your work However we thank you for your Good intentions In magnis voluisse is no small commendation Protestants on the other side you see are furnished with firm stable Principles and Rules in the pursuit both of Moderation and Unity And there are some things in themselves very practicable and naturally deducible from the Principles of Protestants wherein the compleat exercise of Moderation may be obteined and a better progress made towards Vnity than is likely to be by a rigid contending to impose different Principles on one another or by impetuous clamours of lo here and lo there which at present most men are taken up withall Some few of them I shall name unto you as a pacifick Coronis to the preceding â—ristical Discourse and Si quid novisti rectius ist is Candidus imperti si non his ntere mecum And they are these 1. Whereas our Saviour hath determined that our happiness consisteth not in the knowing the things of the Gospell but in doing of them and seeing that no man can expect any benefit or advantage from or by Christ Jesus but only they that yeeld obedience unto him to whom alone he is a Captain of Salvation the first thing wherein all that profess Christianity ought to agree and consent together is joyntly to obey the commands of Christ to live godlliy righteously and soberly in this present world following after holiness without which no man shall see God Untill we all agree in this and make it our business and fix it as our end in vain shall we attempt to agree in notionall and speculative Truths nor would it be much to our advantage so to do For as I remember I have told you before so I now on this occasion tell you again It will at the last day appear that it is all one to any man what party or way in Christian Religion he hath been of if he have not personally been born again and upon mixing the Promises of Christ with faith have thereupon yeilded obedience unto him unto the end I confess men may have many advantages in one way that they may not have in another They may have better means of instruction and better examples for imitation But as to the event it will be one and the same with all unbelievers all unrighteous and ungodly Persons And men may be very zealous believers in a Party who are in the sight of God unbelievers as to the whole design of the Gospell This is a Principle wherein as I take it all Christians agree namely that the Profession of Christianity will do no man the least Good as to his eternall concernments that lives not up to the power of it yea it will be an aggravation of his condemnation And the want hereof is that which hath lost all the â—ustre and splendour of the Religion taught by Jesus Christ in the world Would Christians of all Parties make it their business to retrive its reputation wherein also their own bliss and happiness is involved by an universall obedience unto the precepts of it it would insensibly sink a thousand of their Differences under ground Were this attended unto the world would quickly say with admiration Magnus ab integro sêcloram
nascitur ordo Jam nova progenies Coelo demittitur alto The old glorious beautifull face of Christianity would be restored unto it again which many deform more and more every day by painting a dead carcass in stead of the living Spouse of Christ. And if ever we intend to take one step towards any agreement or unity it must be by fixing this Principle in the minds of all men that it is of no advantage to any man whatever Church or way in Christian Religion he be of unless he personally believe the promises and live in obedience unto all the precepts of Christ. And that for him who doth so that it is a trampling of the whose Gospel underfoot to say that his salvation could be endangered by his not being of this or that Church or way especially considering how much of the world hath immixed its self into all the known wayes that are in it Were this once well fixed on the minds of men and did they practically believe that men shall not be dealt with all at the last day by gross as of this or that party or Church but that every Individuall Person must stand upon his own bottome live by his own faith or perish for want of it as if there had been no other persons in the world but himself wee should quickly find their keenness in promoting and contending for their severall parties taken off theirheat allayed and they will begin to find their business and concernment in Religion to be utterly another matter than they thought of For the present some Protestants think that when the Roman Power is by one means or other broken which they expect that then wee shall agree and have peace Romanists on the other side look for and desire the extirpation of all that they call Heresy or Hereticks by one way or other some pretending highly to Moderation on both sides especially among the Protestants hope that it may be attained by mutuall condescension of the Parties at variance contemperation of opinions and practises unto the present distant apprehensions and interests of the chief leaders of either side what issue and event their desires hopes and attempts will have time will shew to all the world For my part until by a fresh powring out of the Spirit of God from on high I see Christians in profession agreeing in pursuing the end of Christianity endeavouring to be followers of Jesus Christ in a conversation becoming the Gospell without trusting to the Parties wherein they are engaged I shall have very little hopes to see any Unity amongst us that shall be one jot better than our present Differences To see this if any thing would make me say O mihi tam longe maneat pars ultima vitae The present face of Christianity makes the world a wearisome wilderness Nor should I think any thing a more necessary Duty than it would be for Persons of Piety and ability to apologize for the Religion of Jesus Christ and to shew how inconcerned it is in the wayes and practises of the most that profess it and how utterly another thing it is from what in the world it is represented to be so to put a stop unto that Atheism which is breaking in upon us from the contempt that men have of that Idaea of Christian Religion which they have taken from the manner of its profession and lives of its Professors were it not that I suppose it more immediately incumbent on them and us all to do the same work in a reall expression of its power and excellency in such a kind of goodness holiness righteousness and heavenliness of conversation as the world is only as yet in sacret acquainted withall When this is done the way for a farther agreement will be open and facile and untill it be so men will fight on Ipsique nepotesque Et nati natorum qui nascentur ab illis We shall have no end of our Quarrels Could I see an Heroick temper fall on the minds of men of the severall parties at variance to bid adieu to the world its customs manners and fashions which are all vain and perishing not in a locall corporall retirement from the men and lawfull businesses of it or a relinquishment of the necessary callings and employments in it but in their spirits affections could I see them taking up the Cross of Christ not on their backs in its figure but on their hearts in its power and in their whole conversation conforming themselves unto his blessed example so teaching all others of their parties what it is that they build upon for a blessed Eternity that they may not please and deceive themselves with their conceited Orthodoxie in the trifling Differences which they have with other Christans I should hope the very name of persecution and every thing that is contrary to Christian Moderation would quickly be driven out of Christendome and that errour and what ever is contrary to the Vnity of Faith would not be long lived after them But whilest these things are farre from us let us not flatter our selves as though a windy flourish of words had any efficacy in it to bring us to Moderation and unity At variance we are and at variance we must be content to be that being but one of the Evils that at this day triumph in the world over conquered Christianity This being suposed 11. Whereas the Doctrine of God is a Mystery in the knowledge where ofmen attain unto Wisedome according to that measure of light and Grace which the Spirit who devides unto every man as he will is pleased to communicate unto them if men would not frame any other Rule or standard unto that Wisedom and the various degrees of it but only that which God himself hath assigned thereunto the fuell would upon the matter be wholly taken away from the fire of our Contentions All men have not nor let men pretend what they please to the contrary ever had nor ever will have the fame light the same knowledg the same spirituall Wisdome and understanding the same degree of assurance the same measure of comprehension in the things of God But whilest they have the same Rule the same objective Revelation the use of the same means to grow spiritually wise in the knowledg of it they have all the agreement that God hath appointed for them or calls them unto To frame for them all in Rigid confessions or Systemes of supposed credible Propositions a Procrustes bed to stretch them upon or crop them unto the size of so to reduce them to the same opinion in all things is a vain and fruitless attempt that men have for many Generations wearâ—ed themselves about and yet continue so to do Remove out of the way Anathemas upon Propositions arbitrarily composed and expressed Philosophical Conclusions Rules of faith of a meer humane composure or use them no otherwise but only to testifie the voluntary consent of mens minds in expressing to their own
readiness to receive it when it shall be so manifest upon the Authority of the Author of the whole is not in the least danger to be induced by that disbelief to question any thing of that which he is convinced so to be revealed But as I said your Concernment lyes not therein who are not able to prove that Protestants have rejected any one part much less substantial part of Religion and your conclusion upon a supposition of the rejection of errours and practises or the contrary to the Gospel or principles of Religion is very infirm The ground of all your Sophistry lyes in this that men who receive Christian Religion are bound to resolve their faith unto the Authority of them that preach it first unto them whereupon it being impossible for them to question any thing they teach without an impeachment of their absolute Infallibility and so far the Authority which they are to rest upon they have no firm foundation left for their assent unto the things which as yet they do not question and consequently in process of time may easily be induced so to do But this presumption is perfectly destructive to all the certainty of Christian Religion For whereas it proposeth the subject matter of it to be believed with divine faith and supernatural it leaves no formal reason or cause of any such faith no foundation for it to be built upon or Principle to be resolved into For how can Divine faith arise out of humane Authority For acts being specificated by their objects such as is the Authority on which a man believes such is his faith humane if that be humane divine if it be divine But resolving as we ought all our faith into the Authority of God revealing things to be believed and knowing that Revelation to be entirely contained in the Scriptures by which we are to examine and try whatever is by any man or men proposed unto us as an object of our faith they proposing it only upon this consideration that it is a part of that which is revealed by God in the Scripture for us to believe without which they have no ground nor warrant to propose any thing at all unto us in that kind we may reject any of their proposals which we find and discern not to be so revealed or not to be agreeable to what is so revealed without the least weakning of our assent unto what is revealed indeed or making way for any man so to do For whilest the formal reason of faith remains absolutely unimpeached different apprehensions about particular things to be believed have no efficacy to weaken faith its self as we shall farther see in the examination of your ensuing Discourse The same way and means that lopt off some branches will do the like to others and root too but the errours and mistakes of men are not branches growing from the root of the Gospel A Vilification of that Church wherein they find themselves who have a mind to prevaricate upon pretence of Scripture and power of interpreting it light spirit or reason adjoyned with a personal obstinacy that will not submit will do it roundly and to effect This first brought off the Protestants from the Roman Catholick Church this lately separated the Presbyterians from the English Protestant Church the Independent from the Presbyterian and the Quakers from the other Independent And this left good maintains nothing of Christian Religion but the moral part which indeed and truth is but honest Paganism This speech is worthy of all serious Consideration That which this Discourse seems to amount unto is that if a man question or reject any thing that is taught by the Church whereof he is a member there remains no way for him to come unto any certainty in the remaining parts of Religion but that he may on as good grounds question and reject all things as any As you phrase the matter by mens vilifying a Church which a mind to prevaricate upon pretence of Scripture c. though there is no consequence in what you say yet no man can be so mad as to plead in justification of such a proceeding For it is not much to be doubted but that he who layeth such a foundation and makes such a beginning of a separation from any Church will make a progress suitable thereunto But if you will speak unto your own purpose and so as they may have any concernment in what you say with whom you deal you must otherwise frame your hypothesis Suppose a man to be a member of any Church or to find himself in any Church state with others and that he doth at any time by the light and direction of the Scripture discover any thing or things to be taught or practised in that Church whereof he is so a member which he cannot assent unto unless he will contradict the Revelation that God hath made of himself his mind and will in that compleat Rule of all that Religion and worship which are pleasing unto him and therefore doth suspend his assent thereunto and therein dissent from the determination of that Church then you are to assert for the promotion of your design that all the Consequents will follow which you expatiate upon But this supposition fixes immoveably upon the penalty of forfeiting their interest in all saving truth all Christians whatever Greeks Abissines Armenians Protestants in the Churches wherein they find themselves and so makes â—â—ustrate all their attempts for their reconciliation to the Church of Rome For do you think they will attend unto you when you perswade them to a relinquishment of the Communion of that Church wherein they find themselves to joyn with you when the first thing you tell them is that if they do so they are undone and that for ever And yet this is the summ of all that you can plead with them if there be any sense in the Argument you make use of against our relinquishment of the opinions and practises of the Church of Rome because we or our forefathers were at any time members thereof or lived in its communion But you would have this the special Priviledge of your Church alone Any other Church a man may leave yea all other Churches besides he may relinquish the principles wherein he hath been instructed yea it is his duty to renounce their Communion only your Church of Rome is wholly sacred a man that hath once been a member of it must be so for ever and he that questions any thing taught therein may on the same grounds question all the Articles of faith in the Christian Religion And who gave you leave to suppose the only thing in Question between us and to use it as a medium to educe your Conclusion from is it your business to take care bullatis ut tibi nugis Pagina turgescat dare pondus idonea fumo We know the condition of your Roman Church to be no other then that of other Churches if it be not worse
then that of any of them And therefore on what terms and reasons soever a man may relinquish the opinions and renounce the Communion of any other Church upon the same may he renounce the Communion and relinquish the Opinions of yours And if there be no reasons sufficiently cogent so to deal with any Church whatever I pray on what grounds do you proceed to perswade others to such a Course that they may joyn with you Dicisque facisque quod ipse Non Sani esse hominis non sanus juret Orestes To disintangle you out of this Labyrinth whereinto you have cast your self I shall desire you to observe that if the Lord Christ by his Word be the Supream Revealer of all Divine Truth and the Church that is any Church whatever be only the Ministerial proposer of it under and from him being to be regulated in all its propositions by his Revelation if it shall chance to propose that for Truth which is not by him revealed as it may do seeing it hath no security of being preserved from such failures but only in its attendance unto that Rule which it may neglect or corrupt A man in such a Case cannot discharge his Duty to the Supream Revealer without dissenting from the Ministerial proposer Nay if it be a Truth which is proposed and a man dissent from it because he is not convinced that it is revealed he is in no danger to be induced to question other Propositions which he knows to be so revealed his faith being built upon and resolved into that Revelation alone All that remains of your discourse lyes with its whole weight on this presumption because some men may either wilfully prevaricare from the Truth or be mistaken in their apprehensions of it and so dissent from a Church that teacheth the truth and wherein she so teacheth it without cause therefore no man may or ought to relinquish the errors of a Church which he is really and truly convinced by Scripture and solid reason suitable thereunto so to be An inference so wild and so destructive of all assurance in every thing that is knowable in the world that I wonder how your Interest could induce you to give any countenance unto it For if no man can certainly and infallibly know any thing by any way or means wherein some or other are ignorantly or wilfully mistaken we must bid adiew for ever to the certain knowledge of any thing in this world And how slightly soever you are pleased to speak of Scripture Light Spirit and Reason they are the proper names of the wayes and helps that God hath graciously given to the sons of men to come to the knowledge of himself And if the Scripture by the assistance of the Spirit of God and the light unto it communicated unto men by him be not sufficient to lead them in the use and improvement of their Reason unto the saving knowledge of the will of God and that assurance therein which may be a firm foundation of acceptable obedience unto him they must be content to go without it for other wayes and means of it there are none But this is your manner of dealing with us All other Churches must be sleighted and relinquished the means appointed and sanctified by God himself to bring us unto the knowledge of and settlement in the Truth must be rejected that all men may be brought to a fanatical unreasonable resignation of their faith to you and your Church if this be not done men may with as good reason renounce Truth as Error and after they have rejected one error be inclined to cast off all that Truth for the sake whereof that error was rejected by them And I know not what other inconveniences and mischiefs will follow It must needs be well for you that you are Gallinae filius albae Seeing all others are Viles pulli nati infelicibus ovis Your only misadventure is that you are fallen into somewhat an unhappy age wheréin men are hard-hearted and will not give away their Faith and Reason to every one that can take the confidence to beg them at their hands But you will now prove by instances that if a man deny any thing that your Church proposeth he may with as good reason deny every Truth whatever I shall follow you through them and consider what in your matter or manner of proposal is worthy that serious perusal of them which you so much desire To begin See if the Quakers deny not as resolutely the regenerating power of Baptisme as you the efficacy of Absolution See if the Presbyterians do not with as much reason evacuate the Prelacy of Protestants as they the Papacy All things it seems are alike Truth and Error and may with the same reason be opposed and rejected And because some men renounce errors others may on as good grounds renounce the Truth and oppose it with as solid and cogent reasons The Scripture it seems is of no use to direct guide or settle men in these things that relate to the worship and knowledge of God What a strange dream hath the Church of God been in from the dayes of Moses if this be so Hitherto it hath been thought that what the Scripture teacheth in these things turned the scales and made the embracement of it reasonable as the rejection of them the contrary As the woman said to Joab They were wont to speak in old time saying they shall surely ask counsel at Abel and so they ended the matter They said in old time concerning these things To the Law and the Testimonies search the Scriptures and so they ended the matter But it seems tempora mutantur and that now Truth and Falsehood are equally probable having the same grounds the same evidences Quis leget haec min tu istud ais Do you think to be believed in these incredible figments fit to bear a part in the stories of Vlysses unto Alcinous Yet you proceed See if the Socinian Arguments against the Trinity be not as strong as yours against the Eucharist But where did you ever read any Arguments of ours against the Eucharist Have you a dispensation to say what you please for the promotion of the Catholick Cause Are not the Arguments you intend indeed rather for the Eucharist then against it Arguments to vindicate the nature of that holy Eucharistical Ordinance and to preserve it from the manifold abuses that you and your Church do put upon it That is they are arguments against your Transubstantiation and proper sacrifice that you intend And will you now say that the Arguments of the Socinians against the Trinity the great fundamental Article of our Prosession plainly taught in the Scripture and constantly believed by the Church of all Ages are of equal force and validity with those used against your Transubstantiation and Sacrifice of the Mass things never mentioned no not once in the whole Scripture never heard of nor believed by the Church of old and
destructive in your reception unto all that reason and sense whereby we are and know that we are men and live But suppose your prejudice and partial addiction unto your way and faction may be allowed to countenance you in this monstrous comparing and coupling of things together like his who Mortua jungehat corpora vivis is your inference from your enquiry any other but this that the Scripture setting aside the Authority of your Church is of no use to instruct men in the Truth 〈◊〉 all things are alike uncertain unto all And 〈◊〉 you farther manifest to be your meaning in your following enquiries See say you if the Jew do not with as much plaufibility deride Christ as you his Church And would you could see what it is to be a zealot in a faction or would learn to deal candidly and honestly in things wherein your own and the souls of other men are concerned Who is it amongst us that derides the Church of Christ Did Elijah deride the Temple at Jerusalem when he opposed the Priests of Baal or must every one presently be judged to deride the Church of Christ who opposeth the corruptions that the Roman faction have endeavoured to bring into that part of it wherein for some ages they have prevailed What Plausibility yon have found out in the Jews derision of Christ I know not I know some that are as conversant in their writings at least as you seem to have been who affirm that your arguings and revilings are utterly destitute of all plausibility and tolerable pretence But men must have leave to say what they please when they will be talking of they know not what as is the case with you when by any chance you stumble on the Jews or their concernments This is that which for the present you would perswade men unto That the Arguments of the Jews against Christ are as good as those of Protestants against your Church credat Apella Of the same nature with these is the remainder of your Instances and Queries You suppose that a man may have as good reasons for the denyal of Hell as Purgatory of Gods Providence and the Souls Immortality as of any piece of Popery and then may not want appearing incongruities tautologies improbabilities to disenable all Holy Writ at once This is the condition of the man who disbelieves any thing proposed by your Church nor in that state is he capable of any relief Fluctuate he must in all uncertainties Truth and error are all one unto him and he hath as good grounds for the one as the other But Sir pray what serves the Scripture for all this while Will it afford a man no Light no Guidance no Direction Was this quite out of your mind or did you presume your Reader would not once cast his thoughts towards it for his relief in that maze of uncertainties which you endeavour to cast him into or dare you manage such an impeachment of the wisdom and goodness of God as to affirm that that Revelation of himself which he hath graciously afforded unto men to reach them the knowledge of himself and to bring them to settlement and assurance therein is of no use or validity to any such purpose The Holy Ghost tells us that the Scripture is profitable for doctrine and instruction able to make the man of God perfect and us all wise unto salvation that the sure Word of Prophecy where unto he commands us to attend is a light shining in a dark place directs us to search into it that we may come to the acknowledgement of the Truth sending us unto it for our settlement affirming that they who speak not according to the Law and the Testimonies have no light in them He assures us that the word of God is a light unto ou◠feet and his Law perfect converting the soul That it is able to build us up and to give us an inheritance among all them that are sanctified that the things in it are written that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that believing we may have life through his name See also Luke 16. 29 31. Psal. 19. 18. 2 Pet. 1 19. John 5. 39. Rom. 15. 4. Heb. 4. 12. Is there no truth in all this and much more that is affirmed to the same purpose or are you surprized with this mention of it as Caesar Borgia was with his sickness at the death of his father Pope Alexander which spoiled all his designs and made him cry that he had never thought of it and so had not provided against it Do you not know that a volume might be filled with Testimonies of antient fathers bearing witness to the sufficiency and efficacy of the Scripture for the settlement of the minds of men in the knowledge of God and his worship Doth not the experience of all Ages of all places in the world render your Sophistry contemptible are there not were there not millions of Christians alwayes who either knew not or regarded not or openly rejected the Authority of your Church and disbelieved many of her present proposals who yet were and are stedfast and in moveable in the faith of Christ and willingly seal the Truth of it with their dearest blood But if neither the Testimony of God himself in the Scriptures nor the concurrent suffrage of the antient Church nor the experience of to many thousands of the Disciples of Christ is of any moment with you I hope you will not take it amiss if I look upon you as one giving in your self as signal an Instance of the power of prejudice and partial addiction to a party and interest as a man can well meet withall in the world This discourse you tell me in your close you have bestowed upon me in a way of supererogation wherein you deal with us as you do with God himself The Duties he expresly by his commands requireth at your hands you pass by without so much as takeing notice of some of them and others as those of the second Command you openly reject offering him somewhat of your own that he doth not require by the way as you barbarously call it of Supererogation and so here you have passed over in silence that which was incumbent on you to have replyed unto if you had not a mind vadimonium deserere to give over the defence of that Cause you had undertaken and in the room thereof substitute this needless and useless diversion by the way as you say of Supererogation But yet because you were to free of your Charity before you had payed your debts as to bestow it upon me I was not unwilling to require your kindness and have therefore sent it you back again with that acknowledgement of your favour where with it is now attended CHAP. 13. Faith and Charity of Roman Catholicks YOur following Discourse pag. 44 45. is spent partly in the Commendation of your Fiat Lux and the Metaphysical abstracted scourses of
it partly in a repetition in other words of what you had before insisted on The former I shall no further endeavour to disturb your contentment in It is a common error Neque est quisquam Quem non in aliquare videre Suffenum Possis I am not your Rivall in the admiration of it and shall therefore leave you quietly in the embracements of your Darling And for the latter we have had enough of it already and so by this time I hope you think also The close only of your Discourse is considerable and therefore I shall transcribe it for your second thoughts And it is this But Sir what you say here and so often up and down your book of Papists contempt of the Scripture I beseech you will please to abstain from it for the time to come I have conversed with the Roman Catholicks of France â—â—anders and Germany I have read more of your Books both Histories Contemptative and Scholastical Divines thâ—n I believe you have ever seen or heard of I have seen the Colledges of Sacred Priests and Religious houses I have communed with all sort of people and perused their Counsells And after all this I tell you and out of my love I tell you that their respect to Scripture is real absolute and cordial even to admiration Others may talk of it but they act it and would be ready to stone that man that should diminish Holy Writ Let us not wrong the innocent The Scripture is theirs and Jesus Christ is theirs who also will plead their Cause when he sees time What you mention of your own diligence and atchievements what you have done where you have been what you have seen and discoursed I shall not trouble you about It may be as to your souls health Tutior poter as esse domi But yet for all the report that you are pleased to make of your self it is not hard to discern that you and I Nec pondera rerum Nec momenta sumus And notwithstanding your Writings it would have been very difficult for any man to have guessed at your great reading had you not satisfied us by this your own information of it It may be if you had spared some of the time which you have spent in the reading of your Catholick Books unto the study of the Scripture it had not been unto your disadvantage In the mean time there is an Hyperbole in your confidence a little too evident For it is possable that I may and true that I have seen more of your Authors in half an hour then you can read I think in an hundred years unless you intend alwayes to give no other account of your reading then you have done in your Fiat and Epistola But we are weary of this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quin tu alium quaer as quoi centones farcias But to pass by this boasting there are two parts of your Discourse the one concerning the faith the other expressing the Charity of Roman Catholicks The first contains what respect you would be thought to have for the Scripture the latter what you really have for all other Christians besides your selves As to the former you tell me that I speak of the Papists contempt of the Scripture and desire me to abstain from it for the time to come Whither I have used that expression anywhere of contempt of the Scripture well I know not But whereas I look upon you as my friend at least for the good advice I have frequently given you I have deserved that you should be so and therefore shall not deny you any thing that I can reasonably grant and whereas I cannot readily comply with you in your present request as to the alteration of my mind in reference unto the respect that Papists bear unto the Scriptures I esteem my self obliged to give you some account of the reasons why I persist in my former thoughts which I hope as is usual in such cases you will be pleased to take in friendly part For besides Sir that you back your request with nothing but some overconfident asseverations subscribed with teste meipso I have many reasons taken from the practice and Doctrine of your Church that strongly induce me to abide in my former perswasion As 1. You know that in these and the neighbouring Nations Papists have publickly burned the Scriptures and destroyed more Copies of them then ever Antiochus Epiphanes did of the Jewish Law And if you should go about to prove unto me that Protestants have no great regard to Sacred Images that have been worshipped because in these and the neighbouring Nations they brakes and burned a great number of them I should not readily know what to answer you Nor can I entertain any such confidence of your abilities as to expect from you a satisfactory answer unto my instance of the very same nature manifesting what respect Papists bear unto the Scriptures 2. You know that they have imprisoned and burned sundry persons for keeping the Scripture in their houses or some parts of them and reading them for their instruction and comfort Nor is this any great sign of respect unto them no more then it is of mens respect to treason or murder because they hang them up who are guilty of them And 3. Your Church prohibiteth the reading of them unto Lay-men unless in some special cases some few of them be licenced by you so to do and you study sweat for arguments to prove the reading of them needless and dangerous putting them as translated into the Catalogue of Books prohibited Now this is the very mark and stamp that your Church sets upon these books which she disapproves and discountenanceth as pernicious to the faithful 4. Your Councel of Trent hath decreed that your unwritten Traditions are to be received with the same faith and veneration as the Scripture constituting them to be one part of the Word of God and the Scriptures another then which nothing could be spoken more in contempt of it or in reproach unto it For I must assure you Protestants think you cannot possibly contract a greater guilt by any contempt of the Scripture then you do by reducing it into order with your unwritten Traditions 5. You have added Books not only written with an humane and fallible Spirit but farced with actual mistakes and falshoods unto the Canon of the Scripture giving just occasion unto them who receive it from you only to question the Authority of the whole And 6. You teach the Authority of the Scripture at least in respect of us which is all it hath for Authority is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and must regard some in relation unto whom it doth consist depends on the Authority of your Church the readiest way in the world to bring it into Contempt with them that know what your Church is and what it hath been And 7. You plead that it is very obscure and unintelligible of its self and that in things of the
of Episcopacy under a pretence of establishing it and which insteed of asserting them to be Bishops in the Church would have rendred them all Curates to the Pope You would have us believe that Christ hath appointed one Episcopal Monarch in his Church with plenitude of power to represent his own Person which is the Pope and from him all other Bishops to derive their power being substituted by him and unto him unto their work And must not this needs be an acceptable defensative or Plea unto Prelate Protestants which if it be admitted they can be no longer supposed to be made Overseers of their flocks by the Holy Ghost but by the Pope which forfeits their Prelacy and besides asserts his Supremacy which destroyes their Protestancy Upon this occasion you proceed to touch upon somewhat of great importance concerning the Head of the Church wherein you know a great part of the difference between your self and those whom you oppose to consist In your passage you mention the use of true Logick but I fear we shall find that in your Discourse laudatur alget I should have been glad to have found you making what use you were able of that which you commend It would I suppose have directed you to have stated plainly and clearly what is it that you assert and what it is that you oppose and to have given your Arguments Catasceuastical of the one and Anasceuastical of the other but either you know not that way of proceedure or you considered how little advantage unto your end you were like to obtain thereby And therefore you make use only of that part of Logick which teacheth the nature and kinds of Sophisms in particular that of confounding things which ought to be distinguished However your Discourse such as it is shall be examined and that by the rules of that Logick which your self commend You say pag. 51. The Church says I must have a Bishop or otherwise she will not have such a visible Head as she had at first This that you may enervate you tell me that the Church hath still the same Head she had which is Christ who is present with his Church by his Spirit and his Laws and is man God still as much as ever he was and ever the same will be and if I would have any other visible Bishop to be head then it seems I would not have the same head and so would have the same and not the same This is but one part of my answer and that very lamely and imperfectly reported The Reader if he please may see the whole of it Ch. 10. p. 223 c. and therewithall take a specimen of your ingenuity in this Controversie It were very sufficient to render your following exceptions against it useless unto your purpose meerly to repeat what you seek to oppose but because you shall not have any pretence that any thing you have sayd is passed over undiscussed I shall consider what you offer in way of exception to so much of my answer as you are pleased your self to express and as may be supposed thought your self qualified to deal withal Thus then you proceed I cannot in Reason be thought to speak otherwise if we would use true Logick of the Identity of the head then I do of the Identity of the body of the Church This body is not numerically the same for the men of the first age are long ago gone out of the world and another generation come who yet are a body of Christians of the same kind though not numerically the same So do I require that since Jesus Christ as man the head immediate of other believing men is departed hence to the glory of his father that the Church should still have an Head of the same kind as visibly now present as she had in the beginning or else say I she cannot be compleatly the same body or a body of the same kind visible as she was But this she hath not this she is not except she have a visible Bishop as she had in the beginning present with her guiding and ruling under God Christ our Lord is indeed still Man God but his manhood is now separate nor is he visibly present as man which immediately headed his believers under God on whose influence their nature depended His Godhead is still the same in all things not only in its self but in order to his Church also as it was before equally invisible and in the like manner believed but the nature delegate under God and once ruling visibly amongst us by words nnd examples is now utterly withdrawn And if a nature of the same kind be not now delegate with a power of exterior Government as at the first then was then hath not the Church the same head now which she had then qui habet aures andiendi audiat How you have secured your Logick in this Dicourse shall afterwards be considered your Divinity seems at the first view lyable unto just exceptâ—ons For 1. You suppose Christ in his humane nature only to have been the Head of his Church and therefore the absence of that to necessitate the constitution of another Now this supposition is openly false and dangerous to the whole being of Christianity It is the Son of God who is the Head of the Church who as he is man so also is he over all God blessed for ever And as God and man in one person is that Head and ever was since his incarnation and ever will be to the end of the world To deny this is to overthrow the foundation of the Churches faith preservation and consolation it being founded and built on this that he was the Son of the living God Matth. 16. and yet into this supposition alone is your imaginary necessity of the Substitution of another Head in his room resolved 2. You plainly confess that the present Church hath not the same head that the Church had when our Lord Christ conversed with them in the dayes of his flesh That you say was his humane nature delegate under God which being now removed and separate another Person so delegate under God is substituted in his place Which not only deprives the Church of its first Head but also deposeth the humane nature of Christ from that office of headship to his Church which you confess that for a while it enjoyed leaving him nothing but what belongs unto him as God wherein alone you will allow him to be that unto his Church which formerly he was Confessing I say the humane nature of Christ to have been the head of the Church and now denying it so to be you do what lyes in you to depose him from his Office and Throne allowing his humane nature as far as I can perceieve to be of little other use then to be eaten by you in the Mass. 3. You make your intention yet more evident by intimating that the Humane Nature of Christ is now no more Head of
the Church then the present Church is made up of the same numerical members that it was constituted of in the days of his flesh What change you suppose in the Church the body the same you suppose and assert in the head thereof And as that change excludes those former members from being present members so this excludes the former Head from being the present Head Of old the Head of the Church was the humane nature of Christ delegate under God now that is removed and another person in the same nature is so delegated unto the same office Now this is not an Head under Christ but in distinction from him in the same place wherein he was and so exclusive of him which must needs be Antichrist one pretending to be in his room and place to his exclusion that is one set up against him And thus also what you seek to avoid doth inevitably follow upon your discourse namely that you would have the Church for the preservation of its oneness and sameness to have the same head she had which is not the same unless you will say that the Pope is Christ these are the Principles that you proceed upon First you tell us that the humane nature of Christ delegate under God was the visible Head of the Church Secondly That this nature is now removed from us and ceaseth so to be that is not only to be visible but the visible Head of the Church and is no more so then the present Church is made up of the same individual members as it was in the dayes of his flesh which as you well observe it is not Thirdly That a nature of the same kind in another Person is now delegate under God to the same office of a Visible Head with that power of external Government which Christ had whilest he was that head And is it not plain from hence that you exclude the Lord Christ from being that head of his Church which he was in former dayes and substituting another in his room and place you at once depose him and assign another head unto the Church and that in your attempt to prove that her head must still be the same or she cannot be so Farther the humane nature of Christ was personally united unto the Son of God and if that Head which you now fancy the Church to have be not so united it is not the same Head that that was and so whilest you seek to establish not indeed a sameness in the Head of the Church but a likeness in several Heads of it as to visibility you evidently assert a change in the nature of that Head of the Church which we enquire after In a word Christ and the Pope are not the same and therefore if it be necessary to maintain that the Church hath the same Head that she had to assert that in the room of Christ she hath the Pope you prove that she hath the same head that she had because she hath one that is not the same she had and so qui habet aures audiat 4. You vainly imagine the whole Catholick Church any otherwise visible then with the eyes of faith and understanding It was never so no not when Christ conversed with it in the earth no not if you should suppose only his blessed Mother his twelve Apostles and some few more only to belong unto it For though all the members of it might be seen and that at once by the bodily eyes of men as might also the humane nature of him who was the head of it yet as he was Head of the Church and in that his whole Person wherein he was so and is so he was never visible unto any for no man hath seen God at any time And therefore you substituting an Head in his room who in his whole person is visible seeing he was not so do change the Head of the Church as to its visibility also for one that is in his whole person visible and another that is not so are not alike visible wherein you would principally place the identity of the Church 5. Let us see whether your Logick be any better then your Divinity The best Argument that can be formed out of your discourse is this If the Church hath not an head visibly present with her as she had when Christ in his humane nature was on the earth she is not the same that she was but according to their Principles she hath not an head now so visibly present with her therefore she is not the same according unto them I desire to know how you prove your inference It is built on this supposition that the sameness of the Church depends upon the visibility of its Head and not on the sameness of the Head its self which is a fond conceit and contrary to express Scripture Ephes. 4. 3 4 5 6 7. and not capable of the least countenance from Reason It may be you will say that though your Argument do not conclude that on our supposition the Church is not the same absolutely as it was yet it doth that it is not the same as to visibility Whereunto I answer 1. That there is no necessity that the Church should be alwayes the same as to visibility or alwayes visible in the same manner or alwayes equally visible as to all concernments of it 2. You mistake the whole nature of the visibility of the Church supposing it to consist in its being seen with the bodily eyes of men whereas it is only an affection of its publick profession of the Truth whereunto it s being seen in part or in whole by the eyes of any or all men doth no way belong 3. That the Church as I said before was indeed never absolutely visible in its Head and members He who was the Head of it being never in his whole person visible unto the the eyes of men and he is yet as he was of old visible to the eyes of faith whereby we see him that is invisible So that to be visible to the bodily eyes of men in its head and members was never a property of the Church much less such an one as that thereon its sameness in all Ages should depend 6. You fail also in supposing that the numerical sameness of the Church as a body depends absolutely on the sameness of its members For whilest in succession it hath all things the same that concur unto its Constitution order and existence it may be still the same body corporate though it consist not of the same individual persons or bodies natural As the Kingdom of England is the same Kingdom that it was two hundred years ago though there be not now one person living that then it was made up of For though the matter be the same only specifically yet the form being the same numerically that denominates the body to be so But that I may the better represent unto you the proper genius and design of your Discourse I shall
briefly mind you of the principles which you oppose in it and seek to evert by it as also of those which you intend to compass your purpose by Of the first sort are these 1. That the Lord Christ God and Man in one person is and ever continuâ—s to be the only absolute Monarchical Head of his own Church I suppose it needless for me to confirm this Principle by Testimonies of Scripture which it being a matter of pure Revelation is the only way of confirmation that it is capable of That he is the Head of his Church is so frequently averred that every one who hath but read the New Testament will assent unto it upon the bare repetition of the words with the same faith whereby he assents unto the writing its self whatever it be and we shall afterwards see that the notion of an Head is absolutely exclusive of competition in the matter denoted by it An Head properly is singly and absolutely so and therefore the substitution of another head unto the Châ—rch in the room of Christ or with him is perfectly exclusive of him from being so 2. That Christ as God-man in his whole person was never visible to the fleshly eyes of men and whereas as such he was Head of the Church as the Head of the Church he was never absolutely visible His humane nature was seen of old which was but something of him as he was and is the Head of the Church otherwise then by faith no man hath seen him at any time and it changeth the condition of the Church to suppose that now it hath a Head who being a meer man is in his whole person visible so far as a man may be seen 3. That the visibility of the Church consisteth in its publick profession of the Truth and not in its being objected to the bodily eyes of men It is a thing that faith may believe it is a thing that Reason may take notice of consider and comprehend the eyes of the body being of no use in this matter When a Church professeth the Truth it is the ground and pillar of it a City on a hill that is visible though no man see it yea though no man observe or contemplate on any thing about it It s own Profession not other mens observation constitutes it visible Nor is there any thing more required to a Churches visibility but its Profession of the Truth unto which all the outward advantages which it hath or may have of appearing conspicuously or gloriously to the consideration of men are purely accidental which may be separated from it without any prejudice unto its visibility 4. That the sameness of the Church in all Ages doth not depend on its sameness in respect of degrees of visibility That the Church be the same that it was is required that it profess the same Truth it did whereby it becomes absolutely visible but the degrees of this visibility as to conspicuousness and notoriety depending on things accidental unto the being and consequently visibility of Church do no way affect as unto any change Now from hence it follows 1. That the presence or absence of the Humane nature of Christ with or from his Church on earth doth not belong unto the visibility of it so that the absence of it doth no way inferr a necessity of substituting another visible head in his stead Nor was the presence of his humane Nature with his Church any way necessary to the visibility of it his conversation on the earth being wholly for other ends and purposes 2. That the presence or absence of the humane nature of Christ not varying his headship which under both considerations is still the same the supposition of another Head is perfectly destructive of the whole Headship of Christ there being no vacancy possible to be imagined for that supply but by the removal of Christ out of his place For he being the Head of his Church as God and man in his whole person invisible and the visibility of the Church consisting solely in its own profession of the Truth the absence of his humane nature from the earth neither changeth his own Headship nor prejudiceth the Churches visibility so that either the one or the other of them should induce a necessity of the supply of another Head Consider now what it is that you oppose unto these things You tell us â— That Christ was the Head of the Church in his humane nature delegated by and under Gâ—d to that purpâ—se You mean he was so absolutely and as man exclusively to his divine nature This your whole Discourse with the Inferences that you draw from this supposition abundantly manifests If you can make this good you may conclude what you please I know no man that hath any great cause to oppose himself unto you for you have taken away the very foundation of the being and 〈◊〉 of the Church in your supposition 2. You inform us That Christ by his Ascension into heaven ceased to be that Head that he was so that of necessity another must be substituted in his place and room and this we must think to be the Pope He is I confess absent from his Church here on earth as to his bodily appearance amongst us which as it was not necessary as to his Headship so he promised to supply the inconvenience which 〈◊〉 Disciples apprehended would ensue thereupon so that they should have great cause to rejoyce at it as that wherein their great advantage would lye John 16. 7. That this should be by giving us a Pope at Rome in his stead he hath no way intimated And unto those who know what your Pope is and what he hath done in the world you will hardly make it evident that the great advantage which the Lord Christ promised unto his Disciples upon his absence is made good unto them by his Supervisorship 3. You would have the visibility of the Church depend on the visibility of its Head as also its sameness in all ages And no one you are secure who is now visible pretends to be the Head of the Church but the Pope alone and therefore of necessity he it must be But Sir if the Lord Jesus Christ had had no other nature then that wherein he was visible to the eyes of men he could never have been a meet Head for a Church dispersed throughout the whole world nor have been able to discharge the Duty annexed by God unto that office And if so I hope you will not take it amiss if on that supposition I deem your Pope of whom millions of Christians know nothing but by uncertain rumors nor he of then to be very unmeet for the discharge of it And for the visibility of the Church I have before declared wherein it doth consist Upon the whole matter you do not only come short of proving the Indentity and Oneness of the Church to depend upon one visible Bishop as its Monarchical Head but also the
his Successors may be added 3. Protestants reach unanimously that it is incumbent on Kings to find out receive embrace and promote the Truth of the Gospel and the Worship of God appointed therein confirming protecting and defending of it by their Regal Power and Authority as also that in their so doing they are to use the Liberty of their own judgements informed by the wayes that God hath appointed for that end independently on the dictates determinations and orders of any other Person or Persons in the world unto whose Authority they should be obnoxious Heathen Kings made Laws for God Dan. 3. chap. 6. Jona 3. And the great thing that we find any of the Good Kings of Judah commended for is that they commanded the worship of God to be observed and performed according unto his own appointment For this end were they then bound to write out a Copy of the Law with their own hands Deut. 14. 18. and to study in it continually To this purpose were they warned charged exhorted and excited by the Prophets that is that they should serve God as Kings And to this purpose are there innumerable Laws of the best Christian Kings and Emperours still extant in the world In these things consists that Supremacy or Headship of Kings which Protestants unanimously ascribe unto them especially those in England to his Royal Majesty And from hence you may see the frivolousness of sundry things you object unto them As first of the Scheme or Series of Ecclesiastical Power which you ascribe to Prelate Protestants and the Laws of the Land from which you say the Presbyterians dissent which you thus express By the Laws of our Land our Series of Government Ecclesiastical stands thus God Christ King Bishop Ministers People The Presbyterian Predicament is thus God Christ Minister People So that the Ministers head in the Presbyterian Predicament toucheth Christs feet immediately and nothing intervenes You Pretend indeed that hereby you do exalt Christ but this is a meer cheat as all men may see with their eyes For Christ is but where he was but the Minister indeed is exalted being now set in the Kings place one degree higher then the Bishops who by Law is under King and Bishops too If I mistake not in my guess you greatly pleased your self with your Scheme wherein you pretend to make forsooth an ocular Demonstration of what you undertook to prove whereas indeed it is as trivial a fancy as a man can ordinarily meet withal For 1. Neither the Law nor Prelates nor Presbyterians ascribe any place at all unto the Kings Majesty in the Series of Spiritual Order he is neither Bishop nor Minister nor Deacon or any way authorized by Christ to convey or communicate power meerly spiritual unto any others No such thing is claimed by our Kings or declared in Law or asserted by Protestants of any sort But in the series of exteriour Government both Prelate Protestants and Presbyterians assign a Supremacy over all Persons in his Dominions and that in all Causes that are inquirable and determinable by or in any Court exercising Jurisdiction and Authority unto his Majesty All sorts assign unto him the Supreme place under Christ in external Government and Jurisdiction None assign him any place in Spiritual Order and meerly Spiritual Power Secondly If you place Bishops on the Series of exterior Government as appointed by the King and confirmed by the Law of the Land there is yet no difference with respect unto them 3. The Question then is solely about the Series of Spiritual order and thereabout it is confessed there are various apprehensions of Protestants which is all you prove and so do magno conatu nugas agere who knows it not I wish there were any need to prove it But Sir this difference about the Superiority of Bishops to Presbyters or their equality or Identity was agitated in the Church many and many a hundred year before you or I were born and will be so probably when we are both dead and forgotten So that what it makes in this dispute is very hard for a sober man to conjecture 4. Who they are that pretend to exalt Christ by a meer asserting Ministers not to be by his institution subject to Bishops which you call a cheat I know not nor shall be their advocate they exalt Christ who love him and keep his Commandments and no other 2. You may also as easily discern the frivolousness of your exclamation against Protestants for not giving up their differences in Religion to the Vmpirage of Kings upon the assignment of that Supremacy unto them which hath been declared When we make the King such an Head of the Catholick Church as you make the Pope we shall seek unto him as the fountain of our faith as you pretend to do unto the Pope For the present we give that honour to none but Christ himself and for what we assign in profession unto the King we answer it wholly in our practical submission Protestants never thought nor said that any King was appointed by Christ to be supreme infallible Proposer of all things to be believed and done in the Worship of God no King ever assumed that power unto himself It is Jesus Christ alone who is the Supreme and absolute Lawgiver of his Church the Author and finisher of our Faith and it is the honour of Kings to serve him in the promotion of his Interest by the exercise of that Authority and duty which we have before declared What unto the dethroning and dishonour as much as in you lyeth of Christ himself and of Kings also you assign unto the Pope in making him the Supreme head and fountain of their faith hath been already considered This is the substance of what you except against Protestants either as to Opinion or Practice in this matter of deference unto Kingly Authority in things Ecclesiastical What is the sense of your Church which you prefer unto your sentiments herein I shall after I have a little examined your present pretensions manifest unto you seeing you will have it so from those who are full well able to inform us of it Fas mihi Pontificum sacrata resolvere jura atque omnia ferre sub auras â—Siqua tegunt tenear Romaenec ligebus ullis For your own part you have expressed you seâ—f in this matter so loosely generally and ambiguously that it is very hard for any man to collect from your words what it is that you assert or what you deny I shall endeavour to draw out your sense by a few enâ—quiries As 1. Do you think the King hath any An â—ority vested in him as King in Ecclesiastical affairs and over Ecclesiastical Persons You tell us That Catholicks observe the King in all things as well Eeclesiastick as Civil pag. 59. that in the line of Corporal power and Authority the King is immediately under God p. 61. with other words to the same purpose if they are to any purpose at all
Ostorius in the dayes of Nero upon the Conquest of Boadicia Queen of the Iceni and fully subjected in its remainders unto the Roman Yoak and Laws after some struglings for liberty by Julius Agricola in the dayes of Vespatian as Tacitus assures us in the life of his Father in Law In this Estate Brittan continued under Nerva and Trajan the whole Province being afterwards secured by Hadrian from the incursion of the Picts and other barbarous Nations with the defence of his famous walls whereof Spartianus gives us an account In this condition did the whole Province continue unto the death of Commodus under the rule of Vlpius Marcellus as we are informed by Dio and Lampridius This was the state of affairs in Britain when the Epistle of Eleutherius is supposed to be written And for my part I cannot discover where this Lucius should reign with all that Soveraignty ascribed unto him Baronius thinks he might do so beyond the Picts wall which utterly overthrows the wholy story and leaves the whole Province of Brittan utterly unconcerned in the coming of Fugatius and Damianus into this Island These are some and many other reasons of my suspition I could add manifesting it to be far more just then yours that I had no reason for it but only because I would not acknowledge that any good could come from Rome Let us now see what you further except against the account I gave of the progress and declension of Religion in these and other Nations You add then say you succeeded times of Luxury Sloth Pride ambition scandalous riots and corruption both of faith and manners over all the Christian world both Princes Priests Prelates and people But you somewhat pervert my words so to make them lyable unto your exception for as by me they are layed down it seems you could find no occasion against them I tell you p. 253. that after these things a sad decay in faith and holiness of life befell professors not only in this Nation but for the most part all the world over the stories of those dayes are full of nothing more then the Oppression Luxury Sloth of Rulers the pride ambition and unseemly scandalous contests for preheminence of Sees and extent of Jurisdiction among Bishops the sensuality and ignorance of the most of men Now whether these words are not agreeable to Truth and Sobriety I leave to every man to judge who hath any tolerable acquaintance with History or the occurrences of the Ages respected in them Your reply unto them is not a grain of virtue or Goodness we must think in so many Christian Kingdoms and Ages But why must you think so who induceth you thereunto when the Church of Israel was professedly far more corrupted then I have intimated the state of the Christian Church in any part of the world to have been yet there was more then a grain of virtue or goodness not only in Elijah but in the meanest of those seven thousand who within the small precincts of that Kingdom had not bowed the knee to Baal I never in the least questioned but that in that declension of Christianity which I intimated and remission of the most from their pristine Zeal but that there were thousands and ten thousands that kept their integrity and mourned for all the Abominations that they saw practiced in the world Pray reflect a little upon the condition of the Asian Churches mentioned in the Revelation The discovery made of their Spiritual State by Christ himself chap. 2. 3. was within less then forty years after their first planting and yet you see most of them had left their first love and were decayed in their faith and Zeal In one of them there were but a few names remaining that had any life and integrity for Christ the body of the Church having only a name to live being truly and really dead as to any acts of Spiritual life wherein our Communion with God consists And do you make it so strange that whereas the Churches that were planted and watered by the Apostles themselves and enriched with many excellent Gifts and Graces should within the space of less then forty years by the Testimony of the Lord Christ himself so decay and fall off from their first purity faith and works that other Churches who had not their advantages should do so within the space of four hundred years of which season I speak I fear your vain conceit of being rich and wanting nothing of Infallibility and impossibility to stand in need of any Reformation of being as good as ever any Church was or as you need to be is that which hath more prejudiced your Church in particular then you can readily imagine And what I affirmed of those other Churches I know well enough how to prove out of the best and most approved Authors of those dayes If besides Historians which give sufficient Testimony unto my observation you will please to consult Chrysostome Hom. 3. de Incomprehens Dei natur Hom. 19. in Ac. 9. Hom. 15. in Heb. 8. and Augùstin lib. de Fid. bon op cap. 19. you will find that I had good ground for what I said And what if I had minded you of the words of Salvian de provid lib. 3. Quemcunque invenies in Ecclesia non aut â—briosum aut adulternus aut fornicatorem aut raptorem aut ganeonem aut latronem aut homicidam quod omnibus potius est prope haec cuncta sine fine Should I have escaped your censure of giving you a story false and defamatory loaden with foul language against all Nations ages and conditions that none can like who bear any respect either to modesty Religion or Truth ne saevi magne Sacerdos What ground have you for this intemperate railing What instance can you give of any thing of this nature What expression giving countenance unto this severity If you will exercise your self in writing Fiats you must of necessity arm your self with a little patience to hear sometimes things that do not please you and not presently cry out defamations false wrath foul language c. I suppose you know that not long after the times wherein I say Religion as the power and purity of it much decayed in the world that God brought an overflowing scourge and deluge of Judgements upon most of the Nations of Europe that made Profession of Christianity What in sadness do you think might be the cause of that dispensation of his Providence Do you think that all things were well enough amongst them and that in all things their wayes pleased God is such an apprehension suitable to the Goodness Mercy Love and faithfulness of God or must he lose the glory of all his properties in the administration of his righteous Judgements rather then you will acknowledge a demerit in them whom he took away as with a Flood So indeed the Jews would have had it of old under their sufferings but he pleaded and vindicated the equality
then some of them have been If this be to blaspheme then some of your own Councils all your Historians many of the most learned men of your Church are notorious blasphemers But you wilfully mistake and begg that their Schismatical Papal faction may be esteemed the innocent Catholick Church of Christ without a Concession whereof your inferences and perswasions are very weak and feeble Of the like nature unto this is your ensuing discourse about the Contradictions which you fancied in your Fiat Lux to be imposed on Papists pag. 77. Two things you insist upon waving those that you had formerly mentioned as finding them in their examination unable to yield you the advantage you thought to make of them you feign a new contradiction which you say is imposed on Papists For say you while our Kings reign in peace then the Papist Religion is persecuted as contrary to Monarchy when we have destroyed that Government then is the Papist harrassed spoyled pillaged murdered because their Religion is wholly addicted unto Monarchy and Papists are all for Kings These are Contradictions is there not somewhat of the power of darkness in this But you again mistake and that I fear because you will do so There was no Persecution of Papists in this Land at any time but what was in persuit of some Laws that were made against them Now not one of those Laws intimate any such thing as that they were opposite unto Monarchy but rather their design to promote a double Monarchy on different accounts in this Nation the one of the Pope and the other of him to whom the Kingdom was given by the Pope and who for many years in vain attempted to possess himself of it And on that account were you charged with an opposition to our Monarchs but not unto Monarchy it self And yet I must say that if what hath been before discoursed of your faith and perswasion concerning the Papal Soveraignty be well considered it will be found that if not your Religion yet the Principles of some of the chief Professors of it do carry in their womb a great impeachment of Imperial Power Nor can I gather that in the times of our Confusion you suffered as Papists for your friendship and love to Monarchy whatever some individual Persons amongst you might do Seeing some of you would have been contented with its everlasting Seclusion so that your interest in the land might have been secured And whether your Popes themselves be not of that mind I leave to all men to judge who know how much they are wont to preferr their own interest before the rights of other men In the mean time you may take notice that whilest men are owned to persue one certain End they may at several times fix on mediums for the compassing of it opposite and contrary one to another Haec non successit alia aggrediamur via when one way fails another quite contrary unto it may be fixed on And whilest it is supposed that their end is the promotion of the Papal Interest it is not improbable but that at several times you may make use of several wayes and means opposite and contrary one to another and that this may be imputed unto you without the charge of Contradictions upon you But you may if you please omit discourses of this nature I am none of those that would charge any thing upon you to your disadvantage in this world Neither do I desire your trouble any more then mine own My aim is only to defend the Truth which you oppose Your next attempt is to vindicate your self from any such intention in your application of ejice ancillam cum puero suo as I apprehended Whither what you say to this purpose will satisfie your Reader or no I greatly question For my part as I shall speak nothing but what I believe to be according unto truth so if I am or have been at any time mistaken in my apprehension of your sense and mind I am resolved not to defend any thing because I have spoken it Homo sum and therefore subject to mistakes though I am not in the least convinced that I was actually mistaken in my conceptions of your sense and meaning in your Fiat But that we may not needlesly contend about words yours or mine I shall put you into a way whereby you may immediately determine this difference and manifest that I mistook your intention if I did so indeed And it is this Do but renounce those Principles which if you maintain you constantly affirm all that in those words I supposed you to intimate and this strife will be at an end And they are but these two 1. That all those who refuse to believe and worship God according to the Propositions and Determinations of your Church are Hereticks 2. That obstinate Hereticks are to be accursed persecuted destroyed and consumed out of the world Do but renounce these Principles and I shall readily acknowledge my self mistaken in the intention of the words you mention If you will not so do to what purpose is it to contend with you about one single expression ambiguously as you pretend used by you when in your avowed Principles you maintain whatever is suggested to be intimated in it Thus easily might you have saved your longsome discourse in this matter And as for the embleme which you close it with of the Rod of Moses which as you say taken in the right end was a walking staff in the wrong a Serpent it is such a childish figment as you have no cause to thank them that imposed it upon your credulity CHAP. 19. Of preaching the Mass And the Sacrifice of it Transubstantiation Service of the Church WE are arrived at length unto the Consideration of those particulars in your Roman faith which in your Fiat you chose out either to adorn and set off the way in Religion which you invite your Countreymen to embrace or so to gild it as that they may not take any prejudice from them against the whole of what you profess The first of these is that which you entituled Messach which you now inform us to be a Saxon word the same with Mass. But why you make use of such an absolete word to amuze your Readers withal you give us no account Will you give me leave to guess for if I mistake not I am not far from your fancy Plain downright Mass is a thing that hath gotten a very ill name amongst your Countreymen especially since so many of their forefathers were burned to death for refusing to resort unto it Hence it may be you thought meet to wave that name which both the thing known to be signified by it in its own nature and your procedure about it had rendred obnoxious to suspicion So you call it by a new old name or an old new name that men might not at first know what you intended upon your invitation to entertain them withal and yet it may be
against Protestants for dishonouring her and all that you say in in your Epistle in its Vindication is railing at me for minding you of your miscarriage My whole Book you say is nothing but calumnies a bundle of slanders a meer quiver of sharp arrows of desolation I am not sorry that you are sensible that it hath arrows in it tending to the desolation of your Abominations But I challenge you to give an instance of any one calumny or slander in it from the beginning to the end If you do not do so I here declare you to be really and highly guilty of that which you would falsly impose upon another Free your self by some one instance if you can if you cannot your reputation will follow your Conscience whether it will be hard for you to find them again The substance of that Chapter is this which is all that I shall now say to your nothing against it Protestants yield to the blessed Virgin all the honour that the Scripture allows them or direct them unto or that the Primitive Church did ascribe unto her and the Papists give her the honour due to God alone whereby they horribly dishonour God and her CHAP. 21. Images Doctrine of the Council of Trent Of the second Nicene The Arguments for the Adoration of Images Doctrine of the antient Church Of the chief Doctrine of the Roman Church Practice of the whole Vain foundations of the pretences for Image Worship examined and disproved YOur next procedure is to your Discourse of Figures or Images and my Animadversions upon it And here you say you will come up close unto me you mean in replying unto what I delivered about it But Sir I thought this had been contrary to your design You professed at the beginning of your Epistle that it was so and have made good use of that declaration of your self by avoiding every thing in my discourse that you found your self pressed with and too difficult a task for you to deal withal Why do you now begin to forget your self and to cast off the pretence you have hitherto shaddowed your self under and excused your self by from tergiversation Surely you think you are upon this head able to say somewhat to the purpose which you despaired of doing upon others of as great importance and therefore now you may argue and dispute which before the design of your Fiat would not permit you to do As far as I can observe you speak nothing at any time but what you think is at present for your turn But whether it have any consistency with that which elsewhere you have delivered you make it not much your concernment to enquire But we shall quickly see whether you had any just ground of encouragement to harness your self and to come up as you speak close to me in this business or no. It may be before the close of our Discourse you will begin to think it had been as well for you to have persisted in your former avoidance as to make this profession of a close dispute and whatever you pretend to the contrary really you have done so You hide the opinion and practice of your Church about the Worship of Images which you seem to be ashamed of instead of defending them and except against some passages in my Animadversions instead of answering the whole which you seem to pretend unto I shall therefore declare what is the true judgement of your Church in this matter and then vindicate the passages of my Discourse which you take notice of in your exceptions and under both heads declare the abomination of your faith and practice in your Doctrine about Images and Worship of them The Doctrine of your Church in this matter I suppose we may be acquainted with from the Determinations of your Councils the explication of your most famous Doctors the Practice of your people and the distinctions used by you to quit your selves from Idolatry in your Doctrine and Practice And you will thereby learn or may at lest to what purpose it is for you to seek to palliate and hide the deformity of that which your Mother and her wise men have made naked to all the world Your Council of Trent is very wary in this matter as it was in most of its other affairs and indeed seeing it was resolved not to give place to the Truth it became it so to be that it might keep any footing in the minds of men and not tumble headlong into contempt and reproach Many difficulties it had to wrestle withal It saw the practice of their Church which was not totally to be deserted least the great mysterie of its Infallibility should be impaired and its nakedness laid open the general complaint on the other side of learned and sober men that under a pretence of Image Worship as horrible Idolatry was brought into the Church of God as ever was practiced amongh the Heathen did not a little perplex it It had also the various and contradictory opinions of the great Doctors of your Church and Masters of your Faith about the kind of Worship which is due to Images all which had great followers ready to dispute endlesly in the maintenance of their several conceits Amidst these rocks and oppositions the Fathers found no way to sail safely but by the help of general and ambiguous words a course which in the like difficulties had frequently before stood them in good stead Wherefore they so expressed themselves that no party at variance among them might think their opinions condemned that the general practice of their Church might be countenanced and yet no particular asserted that was most obnoxious to the exceptions of the Lutherans Thus then they speak Imagines porro Christi Deiparae Virginis aliorum Sanctorum in Templis praeertim habendas retinendas eisque debitum honorem venerationem impertiendam non quod credatur quoniam honos qui eis exhibetur refertur ad Prototypa quae illae representant with much more to that purpose And we may observe That the Decree speaks only of the Images of Christ the blessed Virgin and other Saints not expresly mentioning the Images of God the Father of the Trinity and of the Holy Ghost nor of Angels which they knew to be made and to be had in veneration in their Church nor do they anywhere reject the use makeing or worshipping of them Yea in their following words they do plainly allow of the figuring of the Deity Quod say they si aliquando historias narrationes 〈◊〉 Scripturae cum id indoctae plebi expediet exprimi figurari contigerit doceatur populus non 〈◊〉 divinitatem figurari quasi corporeis oculis conspâ—i vel coloribus aut figuris exprimi possit The words are as most of the rest in this particuâ—ar as an bigâ—ous as the Oracles of Delphos This cannot be denyed to be in them however That the unlearned people are to be taught that the Deity is not painted or figured
And again The light of thy Countenance is signed or lifted up upon us Psal. 4. Si hoc non sit testimoniorum satis ego nescio quid sit satis he must be very refractory and deserve a world of Anathematismes that is not convinced by all these testimonies that Images ought to be worshiped But quod non dant proceres dabit Histrio if the Scripture will not do it Miracles shall Of these we have an endless number heaped up by the good fathers to prove their Doctrine and justifie their practice The worst is that Tharasius almost spoiles the market by acknowledging that the images in their dayes would work none of the miracles they talked of so that they had them all upon hearesay Act. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But if any should say Why do our images work no miracles to them we answer because as the Apostles saith Signes are for unbelievers not for them that believe And yet the misadventure of it is that the most of the Miracles which they report and build their faith upon were wrought as by so amongst their chiefest believers And what were the Miracles themselves they boasted of such a heap of trash such a fardle of lyes as the like were scarce ever heaped together unless it were in the Golden Legend Hadrian insists on the leprosie and cure of Constantine as loud a lye as any in the Talmud or Alcoran Theodorus of Myra tells us of a Deacon that dreamed he saw one in his sleep whom he took to be St. Nicholas Ac. 4. Another tells us a tale of one that strock a nail in the forehead of an image and was troubled with a pain in his head untill it was pulled out Another dreamed that the blessed Virgin brought Cosma and Damiana to him and commanded them to cure him of his distemper One mans daughter anothers wife is helped by those images And they all consent in the story of the image of Christ made without hands or humane help by God alone 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that he sent to Abgarus King of the Edessenes as bellowing a lye as any in the heard So true was it that the Council of Franckeford affirmed of this Idolatrous Conventicle that they endeavoured to confirm their superstition by feigned wonders and old-wives tales Sir This is the Doctrine this the Confirmation of it which we are directed unto and enjoyned to embrace by your Tridentine decree This is that yea and more also as you will hear by and by that you are bound to maintain and make good if you intend to say any thing to the purpose about figures or Images For you must not think by your sleight florishes to blind the eyes of men in these dayes as you have done formerly Own your Doctrine and practice or renounce it This Tergiversation is shameful and you will yet find your self farther pressed with the doctrine of Chiefest pallars of your Church and the publick practice of it For though this superstitious Conventicle at Nice departed from the faith of the antient Church and was quickly reproved and convinced of folly by persons of more learning sobriety and modesty then themselves in the very age wherein they lived yet it rose not up unto the half of the Abominations in the filth and guilt whereof your Church hath since rolled it self And yet because I presume you are well pleased with these Nicenians who gave so great a list to the setting up of your Idols I shall give you a brief account both what was the judgement and practice of them that went before them in this matter as also of some that followed after them with joynt consent detesting your folly and superstition You tell us somewhere in your Fiat that the Primitive Christians had the picture or half portraiture of Christ upon their Altars I suppose you did not invent it your self I wish you had told us of the Legend that suggested it unto you For you seem in point of story to be conversant in such learned Authors as few can trace you in If you please to have a little patience I shall mind you of some that give us another account of things in those dayes 1. Some there are of the first Christians who give us an account of the whole worship of God with the manner and form of it which was observed in their Assemblies in their dayes So doth Justin Martyr in his Apologies Tertullian in his Origen against Celsus with some others Now in none of these is there any one word concerning Images their use or their worship in the service of God although they descend to describe very minute particulars and circumstances of their way and proceeding 2. Some there are who give an account of the persecutious of several Churches with the out-rages of the Pagans against their Assemblies the Scriptures all the ordinances and worship as do those golden fragments of the first and best Antiquity the Epistles of the Churches of Vienna and Lions to the parishes of Asia of the Church of Smyrna about the Martyrdome of Polycarpus preserved and recorded by Eusebius and yet make no mention of any figures pictures or Images of Christ the Blessed Virgin or his Apostles or of any rage of their adversaries against them or of any spite done unto them which they would not have omitted had there been any such in use amongst them 3. There are besides these some unquestionable remnants of the conceptions that the Wisest and soberest of the heathen had concerning the Christians and their worship as in the Epistle of Pliny about their Assemblies and the rescript of Trajan as also in Lucian Philopatris in none of which is any intimation of the Nicene Images or their Adoration It may be you will undervalue this consideration because built upon testimony negatively when it doth not follow that because such and such mentioned them not therefore they were not then in use or being But Sir an Argument taken from the absolute silence of all approved Authors concerning any thing of importance supposed to be or happen in their dayes and who would have had just occasion to make mention of it had any such thing then been in rerum naturâ is as great an evidence and of as full a certainty as the monuments of times are capable of Is it possible for any rational man to conceive that if there had been such an use and veneration of Images in the primitive Churches as is now in the Roman or that the reception and veneration of them was made the tessara of Church Communion as it is by the Nicene Conventicle that all the first Writers of Christianity treating expresly and purposely of the Assemblies of the Christians and the worship of God in them with the manner and circumstances thereof would have been utterly silent of them or that those who set down and committed to record all the particularities of the Pagans rage in scattering their
Assemblies would not drop one word of any indignity shewed to any of their sacred images when they pass not by their wrath against their houses goods and cattel Such things are fond to imagine 2. Many of the Antients do note it as an abomination in some of the first Hereticks that they had introduced the use of Images into their worship with the adoration of them Theodoret. haeret sub lib. 1. tells us that Simon Magus gave his own image and that of Selene to be worshistped by his followers And Iraeneus Lib. 1. cap. 23. that the followers of Basilides used images and invocations and cap. 24. that the Gnosticks had images both painted ones and carved and that of Christ which they said was made originally by Pontius Pilate and this they adored And so doth Epiphanius also Tom. 2. lib. 1. Haer. 27. Carpocrates procured the images of Christ and Paul to be made and adored them and the like is recorded of others Now do you think they would have observed and reproved this practice as an abomination in the haereticks if there had been any thing in the Churches usage that might give countenance thereunto or at least that they would not have distinguished between that abuse of images which they condemned in the hereticks and that use which was retained and approved among themselves But they are utterly silent as unto any such matter contenting themselves to report and reprove the superstition and idolatry of the Hereticks in their Adoration of them But this is not all 3. They positively deny that they had any images or made any use of them and defend themselves against the charge of the Pagans against them for professing an imageless Religion Clemen Alexand. Strom Lib. 6. plainly and openly confesseth and testifieth that Christians had no Images in the world And in his Adhortat ad Gent. he positively asserts that the arts of Painting and Carving as to any religious use were forbidden to Christians and that in the worship of God they had no sensible image made of any sensible matter because they worshipped God with understanding What was the judgement of Tertullian is known from his book de Idololatria from whence if we should transcribe what is argumentative against image worship very little would be remaining But of all the Antients Origen doth most clearly manifest what was the doctrine and practice of the Church of God in his dayes as in other places so in his seventh book against Celsus he directly handles this matter Celsus charged the Christians that they made use of no images in the worship of God telling them that therein they were like the Persians Scythians Numidans and Seres all which impious nations hated all images as the Turks do at this day To which discourse of his Origen returning answer grants that the Christians had no images in their sacred worship no more then had the Barbarous nations mentioned by Celsus but withall adds the difference that was between those and these and tells you that their abstinence from Image worship was on various accounts And after he hath shewed wherefore those Nations received them not he adds that Christians and Jews abstained from all sacred use of Images because of Gods command Thou shalt fear as he reads the text the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve and thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above or in the earth beneath and adds that they were so far from praying to the images as the Pagans did that saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a thing expresly commanded in the Nicene Conventicle we do not give any honour at all to Images least we should give countenance to the error of ignorant people that there were somewhat of Divinity in them with very much more to the same purpose expresly condemning all the use of Images in the worship of God and openly testifying that there was no such usage among the Christians in those dayes heard of in the world Arnobius or Minutius Faelix acknowledgeth the same Cruces nec colimus nec optamus we do no more worship Crosses then desire them and grants that Christians had nulla note simulachra because no image could be made to or of him whom alone they worshipped What was the judgement of the Elibertine Council I have before told you Lactantius in his Institut ad Constant. lib. 2. by an happy anticipation answers all the arguments that you use to this day in defence of your image worship and concludes peremptorily that where there are any Images there is no Religion shewing how perverse a thing it is that the image of a dead man should be worshipped by a living image of God The time would fail me to relate the words of Eusebius Athanasius Hilarius Ambrosius Cyrillus Chrysostome Epiphanius Hierom Austin and others to the same purpose I cannot but think that it is fully evident to any one that consults antiquity that the image use and worship which is become the Tessera of your Church Communion by your espousing the Canons and Determinations of the second Nycene Synod was in part utterly unknown unto and in part expresly condemned by the whole Primitive Church for 600. years after Christ and that you have plainly by your Tridentine decree and Nicene Anathematismes cut off your selves from the Communion of the Catholick Church of Christ and all particular Assemblies that worship him in sincerity for the space of some hundreds of years in the world Thus things went in the Church of God before your Nicene Convention How did they succeed afterwards did image worship presently prevail upon their determinations or was that then the faith of the generality of the Church of Christ which was declared by the fathers of that Convention nothing less no sooner was the rumor of this horrible innovation in Christian Religion spread abroad in the world but that upon it there was a full assembly of 300. Bishops of the Western Provinces assembled at Franckeford in Germany wherein the superstition and folly of the Nicene Assembly was layed open their Arguments confuted their determinations rejected and image worship absolutely condemned as forbidden by the word of God and contrary to the Antient constant known practice of the whole Church of God And now Sir as I said you may begin to see what you have to do if you intend to speak any thing to the purpose concerning your figures and Images You must take the Decree of your Council of Trent and the Nicene Canons therein confirmed and prove confirm and vindicate them from the opposition made to them by Tertullian Arnobius Origen Lactantius the Synod of Franckeford and others of the Antients innumerable by whom they are rejected and condemned and yet when you have done so if you are able so to do your work is not one quarter at an end You can make nothing of this business untill you have confuted or burned the
able to except against in that discourse will speedily appear In the mean time pray take notice that I have no eagerness to oppose either you or your Church so you will let the Truth alone I shall for ever let you alone without opposition It was the defence of that and not an opposition to you that I was engaged in In the same design do I still persist in the vindication of what I had formerly written and shall assure you that you shall never be opposed by me but only so far and wherein I am fully convinced that you oppose the Truth Manifest that to be on your side and I shall be ready to embrace both you and it For I am absolutely free from all respects unto things in this world that should or might retard me in so doing But that I may hereafter speak somewhat more to the purpose in opposition unto you or else give my consent with understanding unto what you teach pray inform me how I may come to the knowledge of the customs of your Church which you say I neither do nor will understand I have read your Councils those that are properly yours your Mass Book and Rituals many of your Annalists or Historians with your writers of Controversies and Casuists all of the best note same and reputation amongst you Can none of them inform us what the Customs of your Church are If you have such Egyptian or Elâ—usinian mysteries as no man can understand before he be initiated amongst you I must despair of coming unto any acquaintance with them For I shall never engage into the belief of I know not what For the present I shall declare you my apprehension as to that Custome of your Church as you call it which we have now under consideration and desire your charity in my direction if I understand it 〈◊〉 aright It is your Custome to keep the Scriptures from the people in an unknown tongue somewhat contrary to this your former custome in this last age you have made some Translations out of a Translation and that none of the best the use whereof you permit to very few by virtue of special dispensation pleading that the use of it in the Church among the body of its members is useless and dangerous Again it is the Custome of your Church to celebrate all its publick worship in Latine whereof the generality of your people understand nothing at all and you forbid the exercise of your Church worship in a vulgar tongue understood by the Community of your Church or people These I apprehend to be the Customes of your Church and to the best of my understanding they are directly contrary 1. To the End of God in granting unto his Church the inestimable benefit of his Work and worship and 2. To the Command of God given unto all to read meditate and study his Word continually And 3. Prejudicial to the souls of men in depriving them of those unspeakable spiritual advantages which they might attain in the discharge of their duty and which others not subject unto your Auâ—hority have experience of And 4. Opposite unto yea destructive of that edification which is the immediate end of all things 〈◊〉 to be done in publick Assemblies of the Church And 5. Forbidden expresly by the Apostle who inforceth his prohibition with many cogent reasons 1 Cor. 14. And 6. Contrary to the express practice of the primitive Church both Judaical and Christian all whose worship was performed in the same language wherein the People were instructed by preaching and exhortations which I presume you will think it necessary they should well understand being 7. Brought into use gradually and occasionally through the 〈◊〉 negligence of some who pretend in the Churches of those dayes when the Languages wherein the Scripture was first written and whereinto for the use of the whole Church it had been of old translated as the Old Testament into Greek and the whole into Latine through the Tumults and Wars that fell out in the world became corrupted or were extirpated And 8 A means of turning the worship of Christ from a rational way of strengthening faith and increasing Holiness into a dumb histrionical shew exciting brutish and irregular affections and 9 Were the great cause of that darkness and ignorance which spread its self in former dayes over the whole face of your Church and yet continueth in a great measure so to do And in summ are as great an Instance of the power of inveterate prejudices and carnal interests against the light of the Truth as I think was ever given in the world These are my apprehensions concerning the Customs of your Church in this matter with their nature and tendency I shall now try whither you who blame my misunderstanding of them can give me any better information or Reason for the change of my thoughts concerning them But Carbones pro thesauro instead of either further clearing or vindicating your Customs and practice you fall into Encomiums of your Church a story of a Greek Bishop with some other thing as little to your purpose Fur es ait Pedo Pedius quid crimina rasis Librat in Antithetis doctas posuisse figuras Lundatur You are accused to have robbed the Church of the use of the Scripture and the means of its Edification in the worship of God and when you should produce your defensitive you make a fine Discourse quite to other purposes Such as it is we must pass through it First you say I have heard many grave Protestant Divines ingenuously acknowledge that divine Comfort and Sanctity of life requisite unto Salvation which Religion aymes at may with more perfection and less inconvenience be attained by the Customs of the Roman Church then that of ours For Religion is not to fit perching upon the lips but to be got by heart it consists not in reading but doing and in this not in that lives the substance of it which is soon and easily conveighed Christ our Lord drew a Compendium of all divine Truths in two words which our great Apostle again abridged into one Ans. 1. I hope you will give me leave a little to suspend my assent unto what you affirm Not that I question your veracity as to the matter of fact related by you that some Persons have told you what you say but I suppose you are mistaken in them For whereas the Gospel is the Doctrine of Truth according unto Godliness and the promotion of Holiness and Consolation which cannot at all be promoted but in wayes and by means of Gods appointment is the next end of all Religion they can be no Protestant Divines who acknowledge this end to be better attainable in your way then their own because such an acknowledgement would be a vertual renunciation of their Protestancy The judgement of this Church and all the reall grave Divines of it is perfectly against you and should you condescend unto them in other things would not embrace
you to surcease 2. This Vulgar people that you talk of as the Pharises did of them that were willing to attend unto the preaching of Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Joh. 7. This vulgar rout that knows not the Law if they are Christians they are such as to whom those Epistles were originally written and for whose sakes they are preserved such as Christ hath redeemed and sanctified in his own blood and given the annointing unto whereby they may know all things and are pattakers of the Promise that they shall be taught of God The Gospel takes not away the outward differences and distinctions that are on other accounts amongst the children of men but in the things of the Gospel its self there are none Vulgar or Common nor as such to be despised but believers are all one in Christ Jesus Col. 3. 11. Jam. 2. 1 2 3 4 5 6. How it is now I know nor but I am sure that the beginning of the preaching of the Gospel the poor principally received it and the greatest number of them that were effectually called was of those whom you speak so contemptuously of as the Apostle testifies 1. Cor. 1. 26. And the same is made good in all antient story Neither are these vulgar people such Ignoramus's as you imagine unless it be where you make and keep them such by detaining from them the means of knowledge and who perish for the want of it as the Prophet complained of old I speak not of them who continue willingly ignorant under the most effectual means of light but of such as being really born of God and becoming thereby a Royal Nation an holy Priesthood as they are called yea Kings and Priests unto God do conscientiously atterd unto his teachings Of these there are thousands yea ten thousands in England who are among the vulgar fort as to their Outward and Civil Condition that if occasion were administred would farther try your Divinity then you are aware and give you another manner of account of Pauls Epistles then I perceive you suppose they would You are mistaken if you imagine that either greatness or Learning Or Secular Wisdom will give a man understanding in the Mysteries of the Gospel or make him wise therein This wisdom is from above is wrought by the Spirit of God in the use of Spiritual means by himself appointed for that purpose And we know not that men of any condition are excepted from his dispensations of Light and Grace 3. To whom and for whose instruction were those Epistles of Paul written Were they not to the Churches of those dayes to all that were at Rome called to be holy ch 1. 7. and to the Church of God that was at Corinth sanctified in Christ Jesus 1 Cor. 1. 2. with all that everywhere call on his name And why I pray may not the Churches of these dayes be concerned to know the things that the Spirit of God thought meet to instruct the former Churches in Are Believers now grown unconcerned in the Doctrine in the law and Gospel of Sin and Grace of Justification Sanctification Adoption the Obedience of Faith and duties of Holiness which S. Paul reveals and declares in his Epistles What would you make of them or what would you make of the Apostle to write things for the standing use of the Church wherein so few were like to be concerned Or do you think that there are but few things in the Scripture wherein the souls of the people are concerned and that all the rest are left for learned men to dispute and wrangle about But you say there are particular Cases in them that belonged it may be only to them unto whom their resolution was directed But are you such a stranger in the Israel of the Church as not to know that in the same Cases or others of a very neer allyance unto them determinable by the Apostolical Rules delivered in them the Consciences of your vulgar people are still concerned 4. Those Epistles of Paul wherein you instance were written by divine Inspiration and given out by the direction of the Holy Ghost for the use of the Church of God in all Ages This I suppose you will not deny If so why do you set up your wisdom built on frivolous Cavils against the Will Wisdom Love and Care of God I fear you are a stranger unto that Benefit Strength Supportment Light Knowledge Grace Wisdom and Consolation which true believers the Disciples of Christ do every day receive by reading studying and meditating on Pauls Epistles I wish you would mind some of old Chrysostoms Exhortations unto all sorts of persons to the reading and study of them they are so interwoven in all his Expositions and Sermons on them that it were lost labour to direct you unto any place in particular 5. The latter part of your Discourse would make me suspect that your converse with the Quakers that you talked of in your Fiat had a little tainted your judgement but that I can ascribe the rise of it unto another Cause Your preferring the conceived substance of Gods Will before the letter of the Scripture is their very Opinion But what do you mean by the conceived substance of Gods Will Is it the Dâ—ctrine concerning the Will of God delivered in the Scripture or is it somewhat else If some other thing why do you not declare it If it be no other why do you distinguish it from its self and prefer it above it self or do you conceive there is a conceived substance of Gods Will that is taught or may be by men better then by God himself 6. Somewhat you intimate it may be to this purpose in the close of this Discourse p. 96. where you say the Question between us is not whether the people are to have Gods Word or no but whether that Word consist in the letter left to the Peoples disposal or in the substance urgently imposed upon the people for their practice And this because you understand not but mistake the whole business all your talk in this your eighteenth Chapter vades into nothing Truly Sir I never heard before that this was the state of the Controversie between us nor do I now believe it so to be For 1. We say not that the letter of the Scripture is to be left unto the Peoples disposal but that the Scripture is to be commended unto their reverend use and meditation which we think cannot be ingenuously denyed by any man that hath read the Scripture or knows ought of the Duty of the Disciples of Christ. 2. The Conceived substance of the Word of God as by any man conceived and proposed is no otherwise the Word of God but as it answers what is written in the Scripture and by virtue of its analogy therewith 3. If by urging the substance of the Word of God on the People you understand their instruction in their Duty out of the Word of God by Catechizing Preaching Admonitions and Exhortations as
the people from their Captivity they began to lose the purity of their own tongue and most of them understood the Syrochaldaean wherein about that time some small parts of the Scripture also were written In no long process of time a great portion of them living scattered in the Provinces of the Macedonian Empire and therefore called Hellenists used and spake the Greek tongue their own ceasing to be vulgar unto them All these both in private and in their publick Synagogne Worship made use of a Translation of the Scripture into Greek which was now become their vulgar tongue and that made either by the LXXII Elders sent from Jerusalem to Ptolomy Philadelphus or which is more probable by the Jews of Alexandria unto which City multitudes of them repaired the Nation being made free of it by its founder or it may be some while after by the Priest Onias who lead a great Colony of them into Aegypt and there built them a Temple for their Worship So did these Hebrews make use of a Translation when their own tongue ceased to be vulgar unto them The monster of serving God by rational men with a tongue whereof they understand never a word was not yet hatched The other portion of the people who either lived in Palestina or those parts of the East where the Greck tongue never prevailed into common use so soon as their language began to be mixed with the Syrochaldean and the purity of it to grow into disuse made use constantly of their Targums or Translations into that tongue Neither can it be proved but that the Jerusalem Jews understood the Hebrew well enough until the destruction of the City and Temple by Titus So that from the Church of the Jews you cannot obtain the least countenance to your practice And there lyes in Gods dealing with them a strong Argument and Testimony against it For if God himself thought meet to intrust his Oracles unto his People in that language which was common unto them all hath he not tanght us that it is his Will they should still be so continued And is there not still the same reason for it as there was at first 2. Farther the practice of the Latin Church is unavoidably against you For whereas the Scripture was no part of it written in Latin which was their vulgar tongue it it was immediately both Old Testament and New turned thereinto and therein used as in their publick Worship so by private Persons of all sorts upon the encouragement of the Rulers of it And no reason of their translation of it which they made and had from time immemorial can possibly be imagined but only the indispensible necessity which they apprehended of having the Scripture in a Language which the People did generally speak and understand 3. The case was the same in the antient Greek Church The New Testament was Originally written in their own vulgar tongue which they made use of accordingly And as for the old they constantly used a Translation of it into the same dialect So that it is impossible that we can obtain a clearer suffrage from the Antient Churches both Jews and Christians and these both of Latins and Greeks in any thing then we have against this custom of your Church But these languages you say have ceased to be vulgar for some thousand years to your knowleage Bona verba You know much I perceive yet not so much but that it is possible you may sometimes fail in your Chronological faculty Pray how many thousand years is it think you since Christs birth now this year 1663. or since the ruine of the Greek or Latin Empire and therein the Corruption of theiâ— Languages I believe you will not find it above three or four thousand at the most upon your next Calculation though I can assure you an ingenuous Person told me he thought from the manner of your speaking you might guess at some nine or ten What then Was the Bible say you put into other vulgar tongues when they ceased to be vulgar Yes by some they were Hierom translated it into the Dalmatian tongue Vlphilus into the Gotish Beda a great part of it into the Saxon and the like no doubt was done by others The Eastern Countreys also to whom the Greek was not so well known had Translations of their own from the very beginning of their Christianity And for the rest shall the wretched negligence of men in times of confusion and ignorance such as those were wherein the Greek and Latin tongues ceased to be vulgar prescribe a Rule and Law unto us of practice in the worship of God contrary to his own direction the nature of the thing its self and the example of all the Churches of Christ for five hundred years For besides that in the Empire it was alwayes used and read in the vulgar tongues those Nations that knew not the two great Languages that were commonly spoken therein from the time that they received the Christian faith took care to have the Scriptures translated into their Own mother tongue So Chrysostom tells us that the Gospel of John wherein occasionally he especially instanceth was in his dayes translated into the Syrian Egyptian Indian Persian and Ethiopian Languages Hom. 1. in John But you say Did the Church either of the Hebrews or Christians Greek or Latin ever deliver it transtlated to the generality of the People or use it in their Ser vice or command it so to be done as a thing of General concernment so far is it from that that they would never permit it But you do not sufficiently consider what you say The Hebrew Church had no need so to do God gave the Scripture unto it in their own mother tongue and that only And they had no reason to translate it out of their knowledge and understanding The Greek Church had the New Testament in the same manner and the Old they translated or delivered it so translated by others unto the generality of the people and used it in their Service The Latin Church did so also The Scriptures both of the Old and New Testament also being originally written in Languages unknown vulgarly unto them they had them translated into their own common tongue for the generality of the People and used that Translation in their Publick Service The same was the practice of the Syrians and all other Nations of old that had a language in common use peculiar to themselves All your Plea ariseth from the practice of some who through ignorance or negligence provided not for the good and necessity of the Churches of Christ when through the changes and confusions that happened in the world the Greek and Latin tongues ceased to be vulgar which how many thousand years ago it was you may calculate at your next leisure This is that which in them we blame and in you much more because you will follow them after you have been so frequently admonished of your miscarriage therein for
expend words enough about things of less importance But you please your self with the commendation of what you had written on this subject in your Fiat as full of Christian Reason convincing Reason and Sobriety and how it would have prevailed upon your own judgement had you been otherwise minded You seem to dwell far from neighbours and to be a very easie man to be entreated unto what you have a mind unto But you might not have done amiss to have waited a little for the praise of others This out of your own mouth is not very comely And I shall only take leave once more to inform you that an opposition to the Institution of Christ the command of the Apostle the Practice of the Primitive Church with the faith and Consolation of Believers such as is your Paragraph about Communion in one kind whatever overweening thoughts you may have of the product of your own fancy cannot indeed have any one grain in it of Sobriety or Christian Reason CHAP. 24. Heroes of the Asses Head whose Worship was objected to Jews and Christians YOur last end endeavour consists in an exception to somewhat affirmed in the twentieth Chapter of the Animadversions directed unto your Paragraph about Saints and Heroes And I am sorry that I must close with the Consideration of it because I would willingly have taken my leave of you upon better terms then your discouse will allow me to do But I shall as speedily represent you unto your self as I am able And then give you my Salve aeternumque Vale. You tell us in your Fiat that the Pagans defamed the Christians for the worship of an Asses head and you give this reason of it because the Jews had defamed our Lord Jesus Christ whose head and half Portraicture Christians used upon their Altars even as they do at this day of his great simplicity and ignorance Two things you suppose 1. That the Christians placed the Head and half Portraicture of our Saviour in those dayes on their Altars which is alone to your purpose 2. That this gave occacasion to the Pagans to defame them with the worship of an Asses head because the Jews had so blasphemed the Lord Christ as you say These things I told you are fond and false and destitute of all colour of Testimony from Antiquity That the worship of an Asses head was originally charged on the Jews themselves and on Christians no otherwise but as they were accounted a Sect of them or their off spring and that what in the same place you assert of the Jews accusing the Christians for the worship of Images or the Christians using the Picture of Christs head or his half Portraicture on their Altars are monsters that none oâ— the Antients ever dreamed of What plead you 〈…〉 your Vindication quite omitting that what 〈◊〉 alone you are concerned you only undertake to prove that the worship of an Asses head was 〈◊〉 used to the Christians as well as to the Jews which you say I deny and say that it was not charged on the Jews at all And the reason of this charge you say was because they were reckoned among the Jews in odiosis and accounted of them So well do you mind what you had said before of the rise of that imputation on the Christians from the blasplemy of the Jewes So 1. In your Fiat you say no hiâ—g of the Jews at all but only that by their 〈◊〉 the Pagans took occasion to slander the 〈◊〉 being now better instructed by the Animadversions in the rise of that foolish calumny you change your note and close in with what is in them 〈◊〉 2. You unduely affirm that I deny this to have been charged on the Christians when I grant it was and that in the very same manner and on the same account that your self now contrary to what you had written before acknowledge it to have been He must be as much unacquainted with these things as some body else whom I shall not name honoris gratia seems to be who knows not that this foolish impiety was imputed in process of time to the Christians by the Pagans among a litter of other follies as well as unto the Jews Caecilius in Minucius tells us audio â—os ineptissimae pecudis Caput Asini consecratum inepta nescio qua persuasione venerari I heer that by a foolish perswasion they worship the head of an Ass a vile beast And Tertullian Apol cap. 16. Nam quidam somniastis Caput Asininum esse Deum nostrum Some of you dream that an Asses head is our God presently declaring thereon that this imputation was derived on them from the Jews who first suffered under that Fable And if any thing gave new occasion unto it among the Christians it was not the Picture of Christ despised by the Jews as you imagine but the report of his riding on an Ass which Athanasius takes notice of Homil. ad Pagan they said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that the God of the Christians who is called Christ sate on an Ass. But you will prove what you say out of Tertullian say you the same Tertullian in his Apologeticks adds these words The Calumnies saith he invented to cry down our Religion grew to such an excess of impiety that not long ago in this very City a picture of our God was shewn by a certain infamous Person with the ears of an Ass and a hoof on one foot cloathed with a gown and a book in his hand with this inscription Onochoetes the God of the Christians And he adds that the Christians in the City as they were much offended with the impiety so did they not a little wonder at the strange uncouth name the villain had put upon our Lord and Master Onochoetes forsooth he must be called Onochoctes In this Testimony of you know not what you triumph and conclude are you not a strange man to tell me that what I speak of this business is notoriously false nay and that I know it is false and that I cannot produce one Authentick Testimony no not one of any such thing but this is your Ordinary Confidence Seriously Sir I wonder where you got this Quotation out of Tertullian Let me desire you to be wary in receiving any thing hereafter from the same hand out of Authors that you want the Confidence to venture upon your self The words of Tertullian which your Translator hath abused you in are these Sed nova jam Dei nostri in ista Civitate proxime editio publicata est ex quo quidam in frustrandis bestiis mercenarius noxius picturam proposuit cum ejusmodi inscriptione Deus Christianorum Ononychites is erat auribus Asininis altero pede ungulatus librum gestans togatus risimus nomen formam Sed illi debebant adorare statim biforme numen qui canino leonino capite commistos Deos receperunt Lately in that City that is Rome there was a publick shew made of our God wherein a
Principles whereby you attempt the confirmation of that absurd position are of that nature that they exclude the Headship of Christ and inâ—er no less change or alteration in the Church then that which must needs ensue thereon and the substitution of another in his room which destroyes the very essence and being of it Let us now consider what you further reply unto that which was offered in the Animadversions unto the purpose now discoursed of Your ensuing words are And here by the way we may take notice what a fierce English Protestant you are who labour so stoutly to evacuate my argument for Episcopacy and leave none of your own behind you nor acquaint the world with any though you know far better but would make us believe notwith tanding those far better reasons for Prelacy that Christ himself as he is the immediate Head of invisible influence so is he likewise the only and immediate Head of visible direction and government amongst us without the interposition of any Person delegate in his stead to oversee and rule under him in his Church on earth which is against the tenor both of sacred Gospel and St. Pauls Epistles and all Antiquity and the present Ecclesiastical Polity of England and is the Doctrine not of any English Protestant but of the Presbyterian Independent and Quaker How little cause you have to attempt an impeachment of my Protestancy I hope I have in some measure evidenced unto you and shall yet farther make it manifest as you give me occasion so to do In the mean time as I told you before that I would not plead the particular concernment of any party amongst Protestants no more then you do that of any party among your selves so I am sure enough that I have delivered nothing prejudicial unto any of them because I have kept my self unto the defence of their Protestancy wherein they all agree Nor have I given you an answer unto any Argument that tends in the least to the confirmation of such a Prelacy as by any sort of Protestants is admitted but only shewed the emptiness and pernicious Consequences of your Sophism wherewith you plead in pretence for Prelacy indeed for a Papal Supremacy and that on such Principles as are absolutely destructive of that Protestant Prelacy which you would be thought to give countenance unto And your ensuing Discourse wherein you labour to justifie your reflection on me is a pittiful piece of falsehood and Sophistry For first this double Head of the Catholick Church one of influence the other of direction and government which you fancy some Protestants to admit of is a thing that they declare against as injurious to the Lord Christ and that which would render the Church biceps monstrum horrid and deformed It is Christ himself who as by his Spirit he exercises the office of an head by invisible influence so by his Word that of visible direction and rule He is I say the only Head of visible direction to his Church though he be not a visible Head to that purpose which that he should be is to no purpose at all 2. If by the interposition of any person under Christ delegate in his stead you understand any one single Person delegated in his stead to oversee and rule the whole Catholick Church such an one as you now plead for in your Epistle it is intolerable arrogancy to intimate that he is designed either in the Gospel or St. Pauls Epistles or Antiquity whereas you are not able to assign any place or text or word in them directly or by fair Consequence to justifie what you assert And for the present Ecclesiastical policy of the Church of England if you yet know it not let me inform you that the very foundations of it are laid in a direct contrary supposition namely that there is no such single Person delegated under Christ for the Rule of the whole Catholick Church which gives us a new evidence of your Conscientious â—are in what you say and write 3. If you intend that which is not at all to your purpose Persons to rule under Christ in the Church presiding according to his direction and institution in and over the Particular Churches whereunto they do relate governing them in his name by his Authority and according to his Word I desire you to inform me wherein I have said or written or intimated any thing that may give you the least countenance in your affirming that by me it is denied or where it was ever denied by any Protestant whatever Prelatical Presbyterian or Independent neither doth this concession of theirs in the least impeach the sole Soveraign Monarchy of Christ and single Headship over his Church to all ends and purposes A Monarch may be and is the sole supream Governour and Political Head of his Kingdom though he appoint others to execute his Laws by virtue of Authority derived from him in the several Provinces Shires and Parishes of it And Christ is the only head of his Church though he have appointed others to preside and rule in his name in those distributions of his Disciples whereinto they are cast by his appoinment But you proceed Christ in their way is immediatâ— head not only of subministration and influence but of exterior derivation also and government to his Church Ans. He is so the supream and only Head of the Church Catholick in the one way and other though the means of conveying influences of Grace and of exterior Rule be various Then say you is he such an Head to all Belivers or no to all the whole body in general and every individual member thereof in particular if he be so to all you say then no man is to be governed in Affairs of Religion by any other man But why so I pray can no man govern in any sense or place but he must be a supream Head The King is immediate Head unto all his subjects he is King not only to the whole Kingdom but to every individual person in his Kingdom doth it thence follow that they may not be governed by officers subordinate delegated under him to rule them by his Authority according to his Laws or that if they may be so that he is not the only immediate King and supream Head unto them all The Apostle tells us expresly that the Head of every man is Christ 1 Cor. 11. 3. And that an head of Rule as the husband is the head of the wife Ephes. 5. 23. as well as he is an head of influence unto the whole body and every member of it in particular 1 Cor. 12. 12. Col. 2. 19. And it is a senseless thing to imagine that this should in the least impeach his appointment of men to rule under him in his Church according to his Law who are thereupon not heads but in respect of him servants and in respect to the particular Churches wherein they serve him Rulers or guides yea their servants for his sake not Lords
over the flocks but Ministers of their faith By these are the flocks of Christ governed as by shepherds appointed by him the great Bishop and Shepherd of their souls according to the Rules by him prescribed for the rule of the one and obedience of the other But if by governed by another man you mean absolutely supreamly at his will and pleasure then we deny that any Disciple of Christ is in the things of God so to be governed by any man and affirm that to assert it is to cast down Jesus Christ from his Throne But you say if he be not immediate head unto all but Ministers head the people and Christ heads the Ministers this in effect is nothing but to make every Minister a Bishop Why do you not plainly say what it is more then manifest you would have All this while you heed no more the Laws of the Land then constitutions of the Gospel Answ. I have told you how Christ is the immediate Head unto all and yet how he hath appointed others to preside in his Churches under him and that this should infer an equality in all that are by him appointed to that work is most senseless to imagine nor did I in the least intimate any such thing but only that therefore there was no need of any one supream head of the whole Catholick Church nor any place or room left for such an one without the deposition of Christ himself Because the King is the only supream Head of all his people doth it therefore follow that if he appoint Constables to rule in every parish with that allotment of power which by his Laws he gives unto them and Justices of Peace to rule over them in an whole County that therefore every Constable in effect is a Justice of Peace or that there is a sameness in their office Christ is the head of every man that is in the Church be he Bishop or Minister or private man and when the Ministers are said to head the people or the Bishops to head them the expression is improper an inferiour Ministerial subordinate rule being expressed by the name of that which is supream and absolute or they head them not absolutely but in some respect only as every one of them dischargeth the Authority over and towards them wherewith he is intrusted This assertion of Christs sole absolute Headship and denial of any Monarchical state in the Church Catholick but what ariseth from thence doth not as every child may see concern the difference that is about the superiority of Bishops to Ministers or Presbyters For notwithstanding this there are degrees in the Ministry of the Church and several orders of men are engaged therein and whatever there are there might have been more had it seemed to our good Lord Christ to appoint them And whatever order of men may be supposed to be instituted by him in his Church he must be supposed to be the Head of them all and they are all to serve him in the Duties and Offices that they have to discharge towards the Church and one another This headship of Christ is the thing that you are to oppose and its exclusiveness to the substitution of an absolute Head over the whole Catholick Church in his place because of his bodily absence from the earth But this you cast out of sight and instead thereof fall upon the equality of Bishops and Ministers which no way ensues thereon Both Bishops and Presbyters agreeing well enough in the Truth we assert and plead for This you say is contrary to the Gospel and the Law of the Land What is I pray that Christ is the only absolute Head of the Catholick Church No but that Bishops and Ministers are in effect all one But what is that to your purpose will it advantage your Cause what way ever that problem be determined Was any occasion offered you to discourse upon that Question Nay you perceive well enough your self that this is nothing at all to your design and therefore in your following discourse you double and sophisticate making it evident that either you understand not your self what you say or that you would not have others understand you or that you confound all things with a design to deceive for when you come to speak of the Gospel you attempt to prove the appointment of one supream Pastor to the whole Catholick Church and by the Law of the Land the Superiority of Bishops over Ministers as though these things were the same or had any relation one to another whereas we have shewed the former in your sense to be destuctive to the latter Truth never put any man upon such subter fuges and I hope the difficulties that you find your self perplexed withall may direct you at length to find that there is a deceit in your right hand But let us hear your own words As for the Gospel the Lord who had been visible Governour and Pastor of his flock on earth when he was now to depart hence as all the Apostles expected one to be chosen to succeed him in his care so did he notwithstanding his own invisible presence and providence over his flock publickly appoint one And when he taught them that he who was greatest among them should be as the least he did not deny but suppose one greater and taught in one and the same breath both that he was over them and for what he was over them namely to feed not to tyrannize not to domineer and hurt but to direct comfort and conduct his flock in all humility and tenderness as a servant of all their spiritual necessities and if a Bishâ—p be otherwise affected it is the fault of his Person not his place And what is it that you would prove hereby is it that Bishops are above Ministers which in the words immediately foregoing you asserted and in those next ensuing confirm from the Law of the Land is there any tendency in your Discourse towards any such purpose Nay do not your self know that what you seek to insinuate namely the instiâ—ution of one supream Pastor of the whole Catholick Church one of the Apostles to be above and ruler over all the rest of the Apostles and the whole Church besides is perfectly destructive of the Hierarchy of Bishops in England as established by Law and also at once casting down the main if not only foundation that they plead for their station and order from the Gospel For all Prelate Protestants as you call them assert an equality in all the Apostles and a superiority in them to the 70. Disciples whence by a parity of reason they conclude unto he superiority of Bishops over Ministers to be continued in the Church And are you not a fair Advocate for your Cause and well meet for the reproving of others for not consenting unto them But waving that which you little câ—re for and are not at all concerned in let us see how you prove that which we know you