within these last fiftene hundred yeares and for aâ—vantage to make the practise thereof a Definitiue sentence This is exceding presuÌ„ptuous and exceding Iniurious and this is that which I shal now laie to M. Iewels Charge ¶ Of M. Iewels exact accompting vpon the vj. C. yeres next after Christ. YOu Appeale M. Iewel most instantly to the Witnesses of the next six hundred yeres after Christ by which you geaue vs to vnderstand that either your giltie CoÌ„science feareth to be tried by God and the Countrie either that your simple vnderstanding conceiueth to helpe your cause by remoâ—ing of it Of which two there is nere a good neither Conscience already condemning you by the verdite of ix C. yeres together Neither lacke of Wit and Consideration mouing you of xv vniforme Witnesses ix put aside to Imagine that the lesser number of vj. only remaining could be so vsed as that they should appeere either contrary to the â—ine Or of more credite and worthinesse then the nine Both which thinges either that the Church of Christe should be contrary to it selfe or in some one part of her Age more worthy of credite than in some other are plainly and vtterly impossible bothe by Faith and by Reason For like as we are assured by right Faith that there is but One God One Iesus Christ God and man One Spirite diuiding vnto eche as he vvill One Bodie One Doue One Louier One Bevvtiful and One Catholik Church so is it impossible by Naturall Reason that of Unitie A Diuision might be made And that one Part might be found contrary to the other or One Part worthier than the other where there is no Partes making at all and therefore no Parts taking at al to cause any Discord Is Christ sayeth the Apostle diuided Is it yea and naâ—e vvith him Yea doth not he himself say Euery kingdom diuided vvith in it seâ—fe shall be left vvaste and desolate And doe not both Testamentes new and old plainely teache that his kingdome is euerlasting How then should his Church be Contrary vnto it self and thereby cumming to Diuision ende afterwardes in Dissolution Againe The Spiritie of Truthe was promised vnto her which should teach her all Truthe and tary also vvith her for euer There be also prouided for her meete Gouernours and Officers to continue with her and serue her to the perfiting of the holy vntill all doe meete togeather in Vnitie of Faith and knovvledge of the Sonne of God so that because of the Authoritie of the Chiefe Master whome it is Impossible to lie And the continuall succession of Ushers vnder him whome he maketh to teach as he Inspireth the Lessons which at this day are readen in the Church ought to be in deede of as greate Credite emong vs as any of the Primitiue Churches lessons Except perchaunce the Sprite be so blinde or blasphemous in any person as to deny his Almightinesse in making of such as dwel in his house of One minde and Accorde Of whose Promise Prouision and Charitie towardes hys church we haue so infallible testimonies Therefore as the Scriptures perswade our vnderstanding to beleue that the Church is One That it shall Continue for euer That it shall neuer Erre in Doctrine so Reason concludeth by this gift and light of Faith that because it is ONE it must either be NONE at all or continue ONE And because IT CONTINVETH FOR EVER it can not therefore be NONE Remaining then ONE it is to be credited without al doubt because it hath the Sprite of Truthe with her and can not erre And as well to be credited now as it was xv huÌ„dred yeres sense because it is ONE and the selfe same nowe as it was then concerning Assistance of the Holy ghost Priuileges of Honour Infalliblenesse of Truthe Or any other like parteining to the very Substance and nature as I may say of the Church of Christ. Like as in your self M. Iewel Or in any of vs the same Reasonable Soule and Sensitiue life that we receyued of God and our Parents at our beginning continueth yet stil w t vs the Self same in substance Notwithstanding many thousand Alterations in Affections of minde and Disposition of body which haue in the meane time chaunced vnto vs And chainged vs in the chaunce so notwithstanding many Alterations which haue bene in the Church of Christ these xv C. yeres concerning external Gouernment thereof and Ecclesiasticall Orders The life yet Soule and Sense therof is of the same making and worthinesse in all Times and Circumstancies In the Opinion and Imagination of fainte harted and weake Christians it appeareth I graunt to be of more Authoritie If Christ in his owne person speaketh than if S. Paule his Apostle by his will and commaundement speake it And no doubt they haue a good Zeale therein often times and Deuotion but they haue not alwaies good knowledge and UnderstaÌ„ding The Maries brought tidinges vnto the Apostles of the Resurrection of our Sauiour and though they were but Women yet they were deuout Wise and blessed women And their sayinges agreed with the woordes of Christ himselfe spoken vnto them before his Passion so that they might well and should haue bene credited Neuerthelesse their wordes seemed vnto the Apostles no better than A Doting and vaine tale And S. Peter ranne to the Sepulchre to see perchaunce whether he coulde finde a better Argument or Testimonye of the Resurrection than the Maries had brought vnto him and his fellowes Which Argument when it was the selfe same daie made after the best maner vnto them that is by Christes owne presence and wordes yet S. Thomas being at that time absent and hearing at his Returne of the sight and ioye which his fellowes had Except I see quod he the print of the nailes and put my hand into his side I vvill not beleue As who should say that he alone could see more in such a matter than ten other Or that if he once tried iâ— and beleued it him self then it were to be bidden by but if he lerned and receiued it of other mens Report and knowledge then loe it was not clear and out of question Yet the Truthe is alwaies Oâ—e And as faithfully it was to haue bene beleued y t which the Maries or Apostles saw and heard As that which S. Thomas not only saw or hard but fealt also Now in these foresaid Persons and Examples the inward and harty deuotion did somewhat extenuate the Carnalitie of the Affection Mary in other Cases it is grosser and viler As when A Noble and Honorable man speaketh A wise worde it is regarded and remembred but when a poore and Simple Soule doth speake the like it lacketh the same Grace and strength with the hearers Yet the Trueth and wisedome of the saying being on both sides all ONE in goodnesse it might well become all men to honor it without Respect of
he He turneth his forme of speach and vnderstanding wel inough the Pride and Malice of our corrupte nature he maketh his Oratours and Interpretours to bring the selfsame wordes which in dede haue sâ—rength of Christ only out of y â— mouthes of spiritual PersoÌ„s Bishops or Priests And deuiseth that they shal vtter them in their owne persons as in exaÌ„ple 〈◊〉 maketh the Pope to say Whose synnes I forgâ—â—e they be forgeueÌ„ Whose synnes I retâ—ine thei be reteined Which because it is Proudly Arrogantly spoken it is easy to make him contemned which taketh sâ— câ—eeding much vpoÌ„ him and to bring the Office Authority it self into disecredite bâ—cause it agreeth not with the nature iâ—firmitie of the persons to speak so bigly and to performe it accordingly Concerning then now y â— Glose of which M. Iewel speaketh if in dede it be there found that Al Power is geuen to the Pope as wel in heauen as in Earth yet to make the Pope speake it in his own person Al power is geuen to me as wel in HeaueÌ„ as in Earth it is spirefully wickedly turned But let vs see the Glose it sâ—lfe whether it hath that Sence which M. Iewel gathereth thereof For touching y â— forme of wordâ— it is manifest that they are not to be found there as spoken in the firste person The question whiche the Glose moueth is this Whether the Spirituall povver ought to Rule the Temâ—orall And it seemeth saieth the Glose that no wherevpon he bringeth in certaine Argâ—â—entes for the Temporall against the Spiritual Iurâ—sâ—iction but afterwardes be dissolueth euery doubt obiection laieng this one Argument for a ioundation Christ comâ—â—tted his â—â—arshipe 〈◊〉 the bigâ—est Bishope But all povver vvas geauen to Christe in Heauen and in Earth Mat. 28. Ergo the highest Bishop vvhich is his 〈…〉 this â—ovver And what is the thing nowe that M. Iewel in this place doth misâ—yke Or what Sense gathereth his vnderstanding hereof Mâ—ry syr of this place he concludeth the Poâ—e to saie Al power is geauen to me as well in Heauen as in Earth But the Glsse M. Iewel concludeth not so For acâ—â—â—ding to the mater whiche is vroponed the 〈◊〉 of thâ— Conclusion must be ordered Of the Spiritual and Temporal 〈◊〉 here in earth the Glos◠〈◊〉 It speaketh also of the gouernement as it parteineth to one that supplieth the place of Christ on Earth and not as it is enlarged to heauen That visible man shouâ—d be left after the departâ—re and astension of God and man to gouerne that visible Church which consiâ—teth of men It is so Comfortable and Reasonable that Faith Order and Peace without it could not wel haue ben kept But to make any man liuing yet on earth A Doer and Officer concerning the Triâ—â—phant Church in heaueÌ„ where Christ himself is in his person so present that he vseth not a Uicare that is absurde and vnlikely and with this M. Iewel chargeth the Pope that he should Open his mowthe awyde and saie al power is geauen to me as well in Heauen as in Earth Which Conclusion is not vttered nor intended in the Glose No saie you doth not the Glose vpâ—on this text of the Scripture spoken of Christ al power is geauen to me in Heauen and in Earth Doth it not infer that the â—igh Priest his Uicare on earth hath the 〈◊〉 it speaketh not of the same but of 〈◊〉 power And this power is meant not generally of all power that Christ hath but of that whiche is proponed in the question that is the Spiritual Temporal power here in Earth As if he should more plainely haue concluded Al povver both in Heauen and Earth is geauen to Christ Ergo that in Earth Againe the highheste Bishope hath Christes place and Rome in Earth Ergo he hath al povver in Earth Ergo the Spirituall povver ought to Rule the Temâ—oral The weake brother in Faith and witte maie replie If the Pope haue as much power on Earth as Christ It wil folow that Christs power in Earth being infinite the Pope also maie doe what he wil as in example Remoue hils go dryshod ouer great riuers turn water into wine strike fiue thousand men downe with a word as our Sauiour did in the Garden No my frind the Generalitie of a propoâ—ision is to be measured by the mater which is in question And because the question moued in this place by y â— Glose is not of working miracles or 〈◊〉 it be ouer which y â— almightines of oâ—r Sauiour hath absolute power in Earth but of the Authority 〈◊〉 â–ª and iâ—risdiâ—tion which the Spiritual rulers should haue aboue the Temporall withâ—n the Church of Christ that is yet militant therfore the supplieing of Christâ—â— place in earth and the Receiuing of the same power which he had must be extended no further than to the ruling and Gouerning of men here beneth in the world or though out of the world yet in their waie vnto heauen And therefore M. Iewel hath shamefully abused this glose as though it made the Pope a God and that without aâ—â—e Limitation or 〈◊〉 or interpictation be concluded to haue al power as wel in heauen as in Earth euen as Christ him 〈◊〉 hath An other glose M. Iewel hath peeked ent from the decree 24. 〈◊〉 â—aieing 〈…〉 But â–ª do not you M. Iewel most shamfâ—lly erre in 〈◊〉 y â— glose Let vs see for what 〈◊〉 it was alleged of you 〈…〉 better consider whether it 〈◊〉 that for which you alleged it 〈…〉 greably to the catholike saith y â— Although the See of Rome hath failed sometimes in charity yet it neuer failed in Faith Against this conclusion M. Iewel commeth in with these wordes Certainely the very glose vpon the Deeretals putteth this mater vtterly out of doubt these be the words CertuÌ„ est quod Papa errare potest It is certaine that the Popâ— maie erre As if he should say to proâ—e by y â— text it self of y â— decretale y â— the church of Rome may erre in Faith it is so easie a mater Iâ—â—de not worke y â— way But the very glose vpoÌ„ the decrâ—tals which alwaies is fauorable to y â— see of Rome which by al meanes possible mainteineth y â— Popes kingdom which is not of y â— making of any auncient or lerned doctor but of some old muÌ„simns papist baâ—barous master yet this very glose is against y ◠〈◊〉 of y â— see if Rome y â— it can not eâ—e in faith But is this tru Yes certeÌ„ly quod M. Ieâ—â— putteth this mater out of dout y â— vtterli Certainely if the glose hath so taken the mater it is a great argumeÌ„r y â— much more y â— text is against vs. or if the text be 〈◊〉 the Catholikes It is a simple argument of M. Iewels to bring a Glose against the Text and so to speake
of the Glose as though the text were much more for his purpose For the very Glose saieth he putteth the mater vtterly out of dout Let vs see then first of al what is the Text. Lucius the Pope writing to certaine Bishops which were trobled with heretikes And shewing them where vppon to staie themselues that they might no wauer hither and thither willeth them to solow the Church of Rome 〈◊〉 praise of which thus he saieth 〈◊〉 sancts â—posâ—olica mater omnium Ecclesiarum Christ 〈◊〉 qua per Des Omnipotent is graiaâ—â— a tramite Apostolica traditiones nunquam errass probatur This holy and Apostolike Church is the mother of all churches of christ â—hichs through the Grace of almightie God hath neuer ben proued to haue erred froÌ„ the right trade end pathe of the Tradition of the Apostles Thus saieth Pope Lucius and he maketh expressely for D. Harding as far downeward as Lucius owne Popedome was â—nno Do 258. This conclusion then being certaine by the expresse text of the law what saith the Glose therevpon Doth it folow the text or no If it do not Remember then I praie you M. Iewel your charitable and affectuous wordes to D. Harding O M. Harding It is an old saying Maledicta Glosa quae corrumpit textum Accursed be that Glosing construction or Glose that corruppteth the text RemeÌ„ber wel this old saying forget not yourselfe which bring furth with so great a confidence a Glose that impugneth the text But doth the Glose folow the text If it do be ashamed man then of yourself which doe so Certainely warrant it that the very Glose putteth this mater out of doubt that the See of Rome maie erre in Faith the text it selfe making to the contrarie But of this perchaunce you haue litle regaâ—de how the Glose agreeth or disagreeth with the Text. And where you find your vantage there you are determined to take it hauing a simple and plaine eye neither loking to that which goeth before nor that which foloweth neither that which is of any side of you And so â–ª the Glose saiting that Certaine it is the Pope maie erre that is inough for yâ—u and that putteth the mater vtterly out of doubt that the Churche of Rome may errâ— You are deceaued M. Iewel through your Simplicitie For if you or your â—rindes about you had ben circumspect you woulde neuer haue broughte this Glose surth with such confidence as you haue done It is two thinges to saie The Pope maie erre and the Churche of Rome maie erre The first is graunted 〈◊〉 it maie possibly be that the Pope concerning his owne priuate mynd and opinion maie crre in vnderstanding as IoaÌ„nes 22. dyd or whom soeuer els you can name vnto vs. The second is vtterly denied that the Church of Rome can erre For that presupposeth y â— the Pope should â—e geauen ouer to decret Sette â—â—rth or determine by his Iudicial Sentence some thing contrarie to the Apostolike Faith that it should be receiued beleued in the Church Which absurditie that any error should be suffered in haue credit in that Church which is y â— Mother of al Churches that vnder the gouernement of the holy ghost which coÌ„tinueth with it is the spirit of Trueth becasue it is impossible therfore it is also impossible y â— the Church of Rome should erre in any point of y â— Faith And in such extremities where y â— Pope for his owne person is perswaded in a contrary coÌ„clusion vnto our Faith almighty God that his care ouer the church may be manifest prouideth alwaies to take such persons out of the way when they might if they had liued done harme as he did Ioannes 22. and â–ª Anastasius Now that the Glose faith no more but the Pope may erre which we wil not denie and not that the Churche of Rome may erre which was D. Hardings affirmation by whom shal I better proue it thaÌ„ by y â— glose it self which is a litle before in this very cause 24 q. 1. out of which M Iew. peeked his Certainti y â— out of doubt the See of Rome mai erre In y â— chapiter Quodcunque ligaueris the Glose vpoÌ„ a certaine word there gathereth an ArgumeÌ„t that the sentence of the whole Churche is to be preferred before the church of Rome if thei gainsay it in any point And he coÌ„firmeth it by y â— 93. Distinction Legimus But doth the Glose rest there as M. Iew. Certainly auoucheth it doth it put the mater vtterly out of doubt thâ—â— the church of Rome may erre â–ª Iudge of the mind of the Glosator by y â— words of y â— Glose For thus it foloweth Sed 〈…〉 And for coÌ„firmatioÌ„ of his belief he referreth vs to y â— Chap. 〈◊〉 which foloweth in y â— cause questions Nis faith he erraret Romana Ecclesia quod no credo posâ—e fieri quia Deus noÌ„ mitteret Arg. infra ead c. 4 Rect a c. PudeÌ„â—a Except the church of Rome should erre vvhich I beleue caÌ„not be because God vvould not suffer it As it is proued in the Chapiters folowing which begin A Recta Padenda Consider now Indifferent Reader iudge betwene vs both M. Iew. saith The Glose putteth the mater vtterly out of doubt that y â— Church of Rome may erre because it saith the Pope may err I answer y â— the Glose vpon y â— chapiter a Recta 〈◊〉 it that the Pope may Erre but in the third Chapitâ—â— before Quodâ—â—quâ— ligaueris it beleueth that it can not be that the church of Rome should erre because God vvould not permit it Wherof I gatder that the Pope to erre the Church of Rome to erre are 〈◊〉 pointes that if it be graunted vnto him y â— the Pope in his owne prinaâ— sense may hold an heretical opinioÌ„ yet y â— church of Rome for al y â— cannot erre because God wil not suffer it y â— any thing should be decreed by y â— Pope y â— is coÌ„trary to faith And this is manifest euen by y â— very Glose which M. Iewel trusteth so much y â— he toke y â— mater to be vtterli out of dout when the Glose had once spoken it What is abusing of testimonies if this be not what coÌ„science is there either in preferring of Gloses before y â— text either in expouÌ„ding of Gloses against y â— Text either in setâ—ing of one and the selfe same glose against it self wheras being rightly interpreted it agreeth wel inough w t it self either in obiecting y â— part of y â— glose against y â— Aduersarie which being grauÌ„ted hurteth nothing dissembling or not seing an other part of y â— same glose which clearly coÌ„firmeth y â— purpose of the Aduersarie except the Glose could speake more plainly for D. Harding then it hath don when it saith Credo non posse fieri quia Deus non
be easily returned backe vpon them againe In making of which I thinke in dede that the Author thereof was no borower although there hath bene already so much inuented and imagined agaynst Catholikes as more by any occasion could not be vttered Let him therefore alone haue the praise of it for deuising mainteining so vnsensible an Obiection as neither hath bene vsed of former Heretikes though they sought all meanes how to deface vs neither can be reprochful vnto the Catholikes which knowe that nothing is newe vnder the Sonne And that al Scriptures and Doctoâ—rs and Writers are oures which make for the Defense or Sense of the true Faith Unto your charge therefore M. Iewel I doe not laye it whether you haue taken out of the Mâ—gdeburgenses or any Notebookes of other men that which you vtter but with your Appealing vnto the first six hundred yeares and your Refusing of the Authorities within the same yeares And with your Excoursing into al Ages for witnesses And for your Abusing of the witnesses of al Ages with these so principal maters I burthen you Whâ—ch if it seeme light vnto you I do not care for I make no accompt vpon it that your selfe should haue leisure or respect to my smal writinges but that other might thinke better of it I haue prouided by special noting of such mater in which M. Iewel might be taken for no great Iewel when al is knowen In gathering and setting furth of which if I seâ—me to haue dâ—ne otherwise than wel I am ready either to defende it either to confesse it Assured for al that that there is no one Pâ—otâ—rtant in al England that shal be able to disproue my Obiections and trusting that in the Iudgement of the Catholiqâ—â—s I shal not much neede to craue any pardon And now as from y ◠〈◊〉 through the Booke I haue alwaies appealed to thâ— Indifferent Reader so now to conclude I say vnto him and desire of him that he neither fauour Iewel because of the Procedinges nor hate Rastel because of his Religion but Iudge according vnto that which is alleged proued whether M. Iewel be not that Felow of whom the whole coâ—Ì„trie ought to BEVVARE Fol. 1. Fol. 22. Fol. 40. Fol. â—3 Fol. 9â— Fol. 104. Fol. 123. Fol. 129. Fol. 137. Fol. 146. Fol. 163. Fol. â—08 Fol. 216. Fol. 229. Fol. 233. Mountebanks â—or the Body Mountebankes for y â— Soule The effeâ—t of the Mount-bankes drugges 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 ProuisioÌ„ of meat câ—st away Beastlinesse 〈…〉 ☞ Specially to be amended â— Tim. 2. 1. Cor. 12. Eph. 4. Cant 6. 1. Cor. 1. Luc. 11. Da. 7. Luc. 1. The churche is one by Faith Ephe. 4. The churche caÌ„ not erre or faile The churche is allwaies one and true by reason In what things the Church is not allwais one Luc. 24. Let vs not be vnbeleuing but faithfull Ioan â–ª 20. Carnall iudgment Marci 6. Repâ—nâ— Or play no more tâ—e wanton Or lerne more wit Or Anâ—â—er the Obiection The firâ—â— D. Har Example Ie. pa. 75 Ra. Ie. fo 75. The ij D Hard. Fol. 36. Iew. 112. Ra. The iij. Iew. 116. Ra. The iiij Iew. 140 The v. Iew. 217. The vâ— Iew. â—89 Ra. One place for all let M. Iew. or any other Answer it The firste question Faith or â—o Faith Faithe Rom. 10. The ij question Lerned you it of y â— quicke or the deade Of the Quicke The iij. Question Folowed you their Authority or no The iiij Question What are they Here let al the heretikes in y â— world ioin wyth the Papists if they can August ad HonoratuÌ„ cap. 14. de vtilit ate credendi An euideÌ„t Demonstration to perswade vs to beleue De ciuit Dei lib. 22. Cap. 8. De Vtilit cred Cap. 14. â—anich August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August Manich. August CoÌ„fer and consider whether y â— vpstart he retikes be not like the old August Who hath comâ—eÌ„ded Christ vnto M. Iew. but the report of this age in which himselfe hath liued Iew. 242 Sticking vpon viij yeres Did he think you perswade wyth the Emperor to geaue y â— Title Or with the Pope to receiue it Or how bring you Arabia Rome here togeather Iew. 192. Wretched craking Ra. Ser. 137. de temp Iew. 192. Ra. Nothing wonne or lost Absurdities M. Iew. putteth Truthe within a Circle of yeres Here lâ—t any Protestant geaue a Reason of his faith How the heretikes do apointe 1. questioÌ„s 2. Order of disputing 3. Maner of Authorities 4. Age of the witnesses all at pleasure but nothing after right and reson Reasonable Demaundes Ambr. lib. 5. Ep. 33. A most reasonable condition Iewel 260 195. 150. 199 175. 177 10. Com â— Amos Iew. 19â— In the Chapiter of Lyes Iew. Ra. Iew. Ra Iew. 175. Eckius in locis Com. Durand lib. 4. ca. 1. Nicolaus Lyra. Thomas in 1. ad Cor. 14. 177. Ra. Iew. 175. Iew. 104 Ra. M. Iew. belieth his witnesses M. Iew. leaueth S Augustine c. â— foloweth Nicolas Lyra Absurde 104 M. Iew. belieth himselfe Ra. Iâ—w 6. This is worse than muÌ„mery The flowers of the new Gospell Iew. â— â— â–ª 116. Iew. 140. M. Iew. special Exception against the last ix C. yeres proueth that he would be ordered by the vi C. y â— went before Iew. 7. 8. 9. 12. 233. 264. 66. and. 223. Auncient Authorities denied by M. Iewel Hist. Eccl. li. 8. ca. 5. Harding Fol. 45 Iew. 136. Flateringly Ra. Iew. Ra. Iew. Ra. Iew. 13â— Ra. Consider M. Iew. listing and imagining against y â— Storie whiche he promised not to disgrace Such is M. Iew. wâ—en him listeth â—useb Ecc. â—isi lib. 2. ca. 17. et 17 Iew. 10. S. Chrisostomes Liturgie deniÌ„ed Ra. M. Iew. hasty in his iudgement All these things are found in S. Chrisostomes Liturgâ—e Whether are they also in y â— neâ— CoÌ„munioÌ„â—okes in which the forme of al Antiquity they say is expressed M. Pointz ca 7. Iew. 10. Ra. M. Iew. answered by M. Iewel â–ª Dionysius Alexandr Maximus Pachymeres Dionysius Carâ—hus The sprite of the new Gospell is a spoiler Erasmus iustly repreheÌ„ded In CeÌ„sura de libris ad Quirinum Hier. lib. 1. aduers Pelag. Iew â–ª 10 Uanitie Contention Iew. 10. M. Iew. requited to staÌ„d vnto AuncieÌ„t witnesses UnwriteÌ„ Uerities Godfather Abrenuntiation Signe of the Crosse. Oile â–ª halovving of the vvater Chrisome Confirmation Incensing Singing of Psalmes Reading of Lessons Putting out of the vnvvorthy Orders of Officies Hymâ—es VVashing of handes Consecration Shevving of the Sacrament CoÌ„munion Are these signes and tokens of a CoÌ„munion after y e last maner of the English church Or of A Popishe Masse halovving of Oyle Reseruation Geuing of Orders Monkes Professio Signe of the Crosse. Shearing Inuesting DistinctioÌ„ of places in burying Solemnities in Funerals Praying for the Soules departed Pouring of Oyle Iâ—dge now who soâ—uer wil The ioyâ—ing of the issâ—e with M. Iew. greg ho. 34 Orig. Ho. 1 in Ioan
persons When our Sauiour vpon a time preached in the Synagoge of the Iewes so singularly well that all men wondred at his Doctrine Hovv cummeth this felovve sayed they by all this lerning Is not this he that is the Carpenter the sonne of Mary the brother of Iames and Ioseph Are not his sisters also here dvvelling vvith vs As who should say We know his bringing vp well inough And therefore he is not so greatly to be wondered at Such is the Iudgment of carnall men euen vnto this day They measure Truthes by their Imaginacions And set a great Price on thinges that are farther out of their reach Contemning as good or better than those thinges are when they are easy to be found or alwaies present Which thing If it come of the Misery of our Nature it is to be lamented and the Remedie is to be sought for of hym which therefore toke our whole Nature synne excepted vpon him that by partaking thereof we might be purged of our sinne and Corruption If it come of the Foly of any deintines it is in some parsons to be reproued with fauor like as Children and Women are much to be borne withall in respect of their weakenesse and frailtie If it come of lacke of better Instruction Or dulnesse of vnderstanding as in the Rude and Simple of the Countrie they are to be warned as well as we may and for the rest to be â—raied for and tolerated If it come of some Pride Spite or Contention it is to be condemned and hated what so euer the person be But in M. Iewel whereof may I thinke that this Affection doth come of which I speake For you also in defining of euerlasting Trueth by Terme of yeares doe seeme to haue a spice of their disease which coutemne the good things that are nigh vnto them Shall I Impute this faule vnto the generall Miserie of our nature which was corrupted in our first Parentes God sende you theâ— Grace to resist euill motions And for this which you haue already done Repent and be sory But came it of a certaine wantones or niceues in you that as Childerne craue Dis peece or Dat peece of one and the self same meat or bread Or women loue far-fet and deere bought thinges so you will not be serued but with the Testimonies and Authorities of the firste six hundred yeres of our Lord Truely if it be so you can not loke for the Fauor that childerne and Women haue in their Infirmities Will you haue it then to be attributed vnto lacke of Lerning Or plaine Dulnesse that you are so blinde and blunt as to set at naught the Practise and Euidencies of the Catholike Church for nine hundred yeres togeather It seemeth no because the Opinion vndoubtedlye which your predecessours of late had of their owne Iudgment Knowledge and Wittinesse moued them especially to refuse the Generall and Approued Faith of the world And so I beleue they lacked no wit but only Grace and they were to wise to be Obedient and Faithful How now then Was it any Sprite of Malice or Contention that caused you to rest vpon the first six hundred yeres only that the further you went out of sight you might the more boldly shewe â—oule play Maintaine the quarell Make the victory vncertaine And trouble the lookers on If it be not so we shal easely beleue you if you shew any good Cause or Reason wherefore you haue appealed vnto the first six hundred yeres And so appealed vnto them not as the best time to finde witnesses in but as the only time neither as Preferring those Daies but as Condemning ours But let vs first see the Examples by which your fact and behauioure herein may be Euident And then after we shal the better consider it whether you haue any reason or no to make for you And what by likelihode was the cause which moued you Leontius Bishop of Nicopolis wrot the life of Ioannes Eleemosinari ' an holy man of the first six hundred yeres after Christ. Why should I not beleue Leontius Mary he wrote say you A great while after that And what of that Is S. Bedes History of the cumming of S. Augustine the Monke into England to be discredited because S. Bede began to wryte a great while after S. Augustine was departed this world Or because the next six hundred after Christ were much passed when he wrote it Are the bokes of Genesis in any poynt to be doubted of because they declare the beginning of the world and Actes Dated two thousand yeres before Moyses the wryter of them was borne Yet sayeth M. Iewel against Leontius This one Circumstance of his Latines answeareth the matter wholy And in the margine he geaueth a speciall note M. Harding rangeth without the cumpasse of six hundred yeres Vrbanus Regius a Doctor of Luthers Schoole confesseth in his boke De locis Communibus that in the first Councel of Ephesus an Order was taken for Communion vnder one kinde which he being a Lutherane would neuer haue wryten if he had not found it in some Auncient Record and worthy of credite But Vrbanus Regius say you departed this life not aboue .xx. yeres a goe and therefore is a very yong witnesse to testify a thing done so long time before In deede to testifye it as of certaine sight or knowledge it were hard for so young a witnesse but to testify it as of good Historie and Authoritie it is possyble inough for them which are .xx. yeres younger What shall we thinke of S. Bernard A man not only in his own time of most worthy Estimation and Authoritie but in all the Church euer sence of singular Credite and worthinesse If he were now aliue emong vs And might be seen and heard sensibly would there be found in all the world any man of Honestie or Discretion which considering his Holinesse Wisedome and Grauitie would thinke him A witnesse of litle weight and worthinesse Yet Father Iewel sayeth as though he had bene a Reader of Diuinitie when S. Bernard was yet but A Nouiâ—e in the Faith S. Bernard calleth the washing of feete a Sacrament I graunt But S Bernard was a Doctour but of late yeres and therefore his Authoritie must herein weigh the lesser Was he of so late yeres as Luther Zuinglius Caluine Peter Martir and other Greate Anceters of your new Religion Why dothe not the latenesse of these felowes offend you Why think you the xij C. yeres after Christ to be so farre and wide from his Trueth that no certaintie thereof maye be taken in them And Conclude Determine Protest and Defend that to be Sure and Autentike which riseth xv C. and some odde yeres after Christ Of the like kinde of Imaginacion and Answer it is where you say Lyra and Teâ—tonicus Lyued at the least thirtene hundred yeres after Christe wherefore their Authoritie in this Case must Needes
for these last yeares no Praise or Speaking of Christ at all How is it credible For being but a maÌ„ how should he not by all likelihoode folow the common course of men And if he would needes be Singular how could he discerne betwene the true and the false Opinions of the first six hundred yeres whereas he should finde Examples and Wrytings of both Or not able to discerne betwene them how could he fasten his minde and beleife vpon any one of them bothe except he were A Singular one in deede For wisemen doe not lightly take that way in which they see not either the Towne plainely before them or some Cawsey Pathes or Steps of feete to direct them Neither doe they vse when they goe in the right way and come at lenght to some turning or duble waie to go forward I can not tell how without loking backe if any folow Or loking about if any be within sight but either rest themselues vntill they spie of whome to aske Or goe so doubtefully forward in that which leeketh them that if better Counsell and teaching come vnto theÌ„ they wil be returned and ordered And if it be so in A corporall and visible way ought it not to be much more so in folowing the right way vnto truth of vnderstanding and knowledge And when the whole world taketh one waie Or diuerse cumpanies in the world folow diuerse waies would any man of Discretion be so Bolde or Foolishe as to goe peaking alone by himselfe in such an Opinion or Imagination as no man byside himselfe aloweth And so directly go in it that to liue and die he would not be brought from it If therefore these fortie yeres last past or what so euer it be more that M. Iewel hath liued in the world nor Christ had bene Preached nor the Primitiue Churche commended he could not vndoubtedly by any good Occasion or Reason haue estemed the Christian wryters of a thousand yeres sens Or geauen any Faith vnto Christ. Except we should thinke otherwise than y â— Apostle hath taught vs y â— faith commeth without hearing Or that no man sent for him yet by some Miracle perchannce he was brought vnto Christ. Of which two both are out of course And without some Extraordinary way of making them likely vnto vs both are Unreasonable both are Incredible The present Fame then Renoume Testimonie of this Age drawing men of this Age vnto Christ yet doth M. Iewel so litle set by it as though it were worthy of litle credite or rather none And he so cleaâ—eth vnto those vj. C. yeres past A thousaÌ„d yeres almost sens as though he could be sure of the Catholike true Faith that was then w tout the Testimonies of the Catholike Church now Or as though some secrete Mistery or Securitie were in them to further him in vnreueled Conclusions And exempt him from all Iurisdiction In so much that although in xv C. yeres rekening which the Church hath continued in as it shall to the worldes end viij yeres can not greatly hurt the Accompt Yet so true an Audite of theÌ„ is kept by M. Iewel that he wil not receiue the Testimonies of the viij yeres next after the first vj. C. but noteth in his Booke their cumming to late though they came very nigh His wordes be these M. Harding knoweth wel that this grauÌ„t to be called The Head of al Churches was made vnto Bonifacius the third which was Bisshope of Rome in the yere of our Lord vj. C. and viij Euen at the same very time that Mahomete first began to plant his Doctrine in Arabia And therfore maketh nothing to this purpose as beiâ—g without the cumpasse of six hundred yeres As who should thinke that within those viij yeres on this side the six hundred The Pope and Emperour with the whole world were Sodainely and Straungely conuerted from the Faith and Order which they were of viij yeres before And no Historie mentioning it were made of Pure Protestants Grosse Papists Yea not only of viij yeres aboue the vj. C. he maketh a sad rekoning towards his Uantage but of the vj. C. yere it self if he can bring D. Hardings testimonie so low he so vaunteth and braggeth as though either himself had the Uictorie Or els nothing should be won or lost For whereas D. Harding for profe of y â— Church Seruice in a Straung Tongue and vnknowen to the Uulgare people and that also within the first vj. C. yeres alleaged the cumming of S. Augustine the Monke and our Apostle into England which was by his accompt the 14. yere of Mauritius Emperor the 596. of our Lord. Master Iewel in answering it sayeth Of the 600 â–ª yeres after Christ whervpon Iioyne wish him issue Liberally and of his owne accord he geueth me backe fiue hundred foure scoare and sixtene And of so greate a number as 600. are reserueth vnto himself foure POORE YERES and yet is not very certaine of the same And then it foloweth But if Marianus Scotus accompt be true that Augustine came into this Realme not the fourtienth of the Emperour Mauritius but four yeres after which was iust the six hundred yere after Christ then he reserueth not one yere to himselfe but yeldeth me backe altogeather Loe what a wise contention here is And how sadly M. Iewel foloweth it Did he thinke with himselfe that none but Children or Idiotes would Reade his Replie And if he prouided to make it so as not only Wisemen should consider it but the Aduersarie also might â—e answered by it how could he for shame of the world so Trifle and Wrangle and Set furth himselfe so much vpon so litle occasion For if the vj. C. yeres shall trie the mater he that cometh four yeres before they be ended commeth time inough to confute M. Iewel And his Cause therefore being lost Or his Bragging at least confounded if in any time before the vj. C. yeres expired the contrarie to this Assertion may be proued Why should he call them foure Poore yeres or set them at naught which making to the number of the first 600. yeres are part of the yeres vpon which he ioyned Issue and are by his apointement of greate Authoritie The crake herein is like as if one should say In all S. Augustines workes you shal not finde this worde Missa and thervpon I wil ioyne with you as though a great point of Diuinitie consisted herein An other answeareth yeas Mary I finde the worde in such and such Sermons Then Replieth the ChalleÌ„ger Of so great a number of Tomes as S. Augustine hath writen of so many bokes in euery Tome c. as far as his Rhetorike permitteth you geaue me backe Liberally And of your owne accord al the sort of them almost and reserue vnto your selfe two POORE SERMONS and yet are you not very certaine of them whether they be S. Augustines or â—oe As if he should say I layed
contention My questioâ—s are short and easy to be answered if you haue any Faith or Conscience at all As in Example Was there not a Church of God in the world when you were borne Did not the Greatnes Grauitie and Authoritie of Nations which were of it moue you to beleue Did the Inuisible and litle Congregation worke that effect in you If ye trusted the Catholike Church of your time in commending Christ vnto you and without her Commendatyon would not haue credited him can you with a safe conscieÌ„ce contemne the voice of the same Church And to colour your defection and Fleeing from it take holde fast of the first six hundred yeres only As though you could with all your witte iudge better what the Primitiue Church thought and beleued than the present Church which is of one Spirite wth the Primitiue c. But there is no Remedie vpon the first six hundred yeres M. Iewel ioyneth with vs And if any thing be longer than that measure he will none of it he hath sayed it ¶ How M. Iewel himselfe dothe vse the Testimonies of what so euer Age and wryter though he bind other to the first sixe hundred yeres only TO the first six hundred yeres cumpasse then we must be bound al against Reason and Conscience but what shall we doe when the standing in our right against the Aduersarie and the Refusing to encountre with him vpon his conditions shall be thought of some Iudges to be A Preiudice vnto our cause and A greate Argument that our hartes faile vs Dispute sayeth the Heretike wyth me vpon these questions whether the Publike Seruice in an vnknowen tongue Or Receiuing vnder one kinde Or Reseruing of the Sacrament in A Pix wyth A Canopie ouer it â–ª c. Was euer vsed in the Primitiue Church No Mary would I saie if it were to me only I will not Dispute with thee vpon theesâ— poyntes But if thy Hart and Learning serue thee make few wordes and Answer me from whence thou câ—mest Who sent thee What are their Names Where are their Sees What is their Succession What is their Authoritie In which pointes if thou satisfie me not only then in these few Articles which thou demaundest but in euery point and part of the Religion which thy Church aloweth I will be Faithfull and Obedient Dispute sayeth he againe vnto me on Munday come seuennight And before that Day cummeth he chaingeth his minde foure or fiue times with me First he will Dispute in Latine Then he will wryte his minde and speake nothing After that he wil haue the mater Reasoned in Englishe and wise men shal be Iudges And after that againe he will haue it done in the hearing of the people not by quicke Disputation but by Reading only the Argumentes out of a Booke If the Catholike Disagree in anye poynt and stand vpon it either stubburnesse either Mistrust of his Cause either some fault or other shal be layed vnto him And so were many greate and heighnous maters Obiected against S. Ambrose because he refused to haue the cause betwene himselfe and the Heretike Auxentius to be tried in the Consistorie of the Emperour before Secular Iudges And his Exception against the Place only and Audience was accompted an high and intolerable Treason In like maner You shall Dispute with me sayeth the Heretike and nothing shall serue you except it be in expresse Scripture If the Catholike refuse that Condition and allege an hundred Reasons and Authorities that we must beleâ—e the vnwriten veritie as wel as the writen And that the word and will of God is allwaies to be obeiâ—d whether it be deliuered vnto vs by Tradition or left vnto vs in Wryting Yet except he yeld at length all England shal ring of it That the Papistes will not be tried by the linely worde of God That they flee the light That they dare not commit their cause to the Scriptures To be short when M. Iewel now more Reasonably in deede than Some of his Masters or Felowes which will admit nothing but Scripture Yet heretically and stately inough proâ—oketh vs to ioine with him And chooseth his questions and excludeth all our Answers vnto them except they be taken iust out of the vâ— C. yeres after Christ although it be very vniustly required of him and A Catholike should neuer come into such bondage Or not alwaies condescend in these lesser pointes vnto A Protestant Yet if he striue long with him about it and stand in the Defence of the last nine hundred yeres alleaging many and them good causes wherefore the Testimonie and consent of so long time should be alowed the longer he striueth the worse shall he be esteemed for it and the ernest mainteining of euery Truth on his side shall goe in Print abrode for an Argument that in dede he hath no good right Be it so then The Catholike must let goe the vantage of ix C. yeres he must fight within that time and cumpasse that the Heretike prescribeth And although that naturally al men are more fauorable to them that are called in to the law than the suers and troblers of them and suffer the defendant whome worldly frindship cleane forsaketh to haue as much right as his cause will geaue him Yet let all thinges be forgoten which may commend the Catholikes and as M. Iewel hath appointed so let the first six hundred yeres only be considered and alowed But here now let me aske one Question As it not Reason like as our aduersarie prescribeth vnto vs the number and Terme of yeres out of which we must gather our Argumentes that so likewise he shuld not come against vs with any Testimony or Authority which were out of those apointed Limites and boundes of yeres If a Challenger shall say to the Partye whome he Prouoketh come let vs straite waies trie the mater betwene our selues in the plaine Fielde and bring thou thy Sword and Buckler as I will mine when they are agreed vpon the Time Place and kind of Weapon if the Challenger would against the others single sworde come with sword dager horse spere Dagge and what so euer defence or helpe he could get â—yside should he not be compted Awretched and Contentious and A glorious Iacke Bragger He that biddeth the combat seemeth to take himself for the better maÌ„ and to like his owne cause and quarell very wel how Ignominious then and Shamefull must it be vnto him not to fight vpon equall conditions with hys Aduersarie Reason you against me sayeth M. Iewel out of the first six hundred yeres only but I for all that will be at my libertie to vse any Testimonie out of the xv C. and odde yeres sens Christ. Which in very deede is as much to say as knele you here vpon one knee and Fight not out of this Circle which I make to you As for my selfe I will goe or run at my pleasure about you and take my vantage
Victor that wrote the story of the Vandales he is neither Scripture For Scripture he was not alleaged And this also is against sincere and honest dealing to promise or rather protest that you would be tried by any Doctor Father Councel or Example of the Primitiue Churche and now so desperately to come in with this exceptioÌ„ that Uictor is no Scripture It foloweth Nor Councel Remember your selfe M. Iewel There are emong your Fauorers some discrete Sadde and Iust men Whome your Inuention in this place wil litle please And your much seeking to extenuate Uictors Authoritie wil be an Argument vnto them that you fall to Copie of wordes and shiftes of Rhetorike meete for Childerne when Copie of Sense â–ª and certaintie of good Answer doth not serue your greate Stomacke You saied wel once that one good sentence were Proufe sufficient and are you so much chainged so sodainely that you dare set light by an Auncient and graue wytnesse because he is no Councel You neede surely some good counsel least by extreme folowing with al your wit the defense of your mad ChalleÌ„ge you chauÌ„ce to fall bysides your wittes and haue no sense at al of your doinges It foloweth Nor Doctour Now define you then A Doctour For in deede whome you wil alowe to beare that name I can not tel And such Libertie you haue takeÌ„ now vnto your self of binding vs to your meaning that if you wil vnderstand by a Doctour none other but either S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Augustine or S. Gregorie which are called the foure Doctours of the Church Or some such as hath been solemly Created and made Doctour in some Uniuersitie we must be contenâ— with your sense and let you haue your owne minde and meaning But if you wil be ordered by reason you wil not deny I suppose that Uictor might wel be A Doctour which being a Bishop of no smal Citie in Aphrica had by al likelyhoode the knowledge of Scriptures and grace of expounding them and diligence in executing his office Except that M. Iewel wil be so Iniurious to the first six hundred yeares after Christ in which Uictor liued that he wil Iudge any one to haue ben made Bishoppe in those daies which was vnworthy to be a Doctour Againe if he were no Doctour was he therfore no Father And your self promising to admit any sufficient testimonie of any Father how wisely make ye now an Exception against Uictor â–ª because he was no Doctor It foloweth Nor writeth the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church O worthy Exception Doth S. Augustine in his bookes of Confession write the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church Nothing lesse For alâ—ogether they are compiled of his owne Actes Lyfe Chaunces Cogitations and Interrogations But what then Might not one for al this bring a good testimonie out of those bokes for prouâ—e of any mater that is in controuersie And when the Heretike denieth prayers for the Dead should not the example of S. Augustine whose prayer for his Mothers soule is extant in his Confessions quite and cleane sâ—oppe his Procedinges and make his very Impudencie ashamed What new found reason then is this of M. Iewels to contemne an AuncieÌ„t writer if he write not of those Maters and write also in such Order of them as he requireth When we alleage Clemens de Constitutionibus Apostolicis S. Denyse de Coelesti Ecclesiastica Hierarchia S. Iames Liturgie S. Chrysostomes Liturgie Sozomenus Nicephorus Or â–ª the Decrees and Decretales straitwaies you either deny them either suspect them either wil fyle them better before you beleue them Yet there are not in whom you may see more expressely the printes and the formes of the order or practise of the Primitiue Church For where shal one better finde what the Religion was in euery Age than in the Histories of those times and in Decrees Answeres and forme of publike Seruice that in euery of them was vsed You therefore which so litle set by those writers by whom we may vnderstand most plainly what the particulars were of the cause and state of our Religion in the Primitiue Churche now when Uictor is brought against you sodainly you be so chaunged as though it might be an exception against a witnes that he writeth not the Order or Practise of the Primitiue Church And yet this Exception of yours commeth not so luckely against Uictor Which although he take not into his storie the Actes of the Apostles or the succession of Bishoppes after them or al the persecutions throughout Christendome or the Martyrs of al Countries Or the perfection and rule of those holy Monks â—hat liued in wildernesses Or the Decrees of al Councels Or euery other such mater as might be spoken of by a General Historiographer yet what state the Church was in vnder the Uandales he describeth sufficiently And by his telling this much we vnderstande of the Order and Practise yf not of the Primitiue Church yet of that Church which was within the six hundred yeres after Christe the which time you haue allowed vs that in a mater concerning Faith and in a Councel to be gathered it was thought mâ—ete then to make other Bishoppes besydes them of Aphrica priuy thereof and especially to haue the presence of the Bishoppes of Rome because The Church of Rome is head of al churches Which Euidence because it is so plaine against you therefore hauing nothing to said reasonably against the sentence Yoâ— hâ—â—e sâ—retched your wittes to findâ—â—xâ—eptions against the Reporter oâ— it And you saiâ— farther against him Nor is it wel knowen either of what credite he was or when he liued Concerning his Credite he was Bishoppe of Utiâ—a and by likelyhoode therfore of good Estimation emong the Catholiques and A Man worthy to be heleâ—ed For in al kindes and Contrarietiâ—s of Religion such as are high Priestes Bishops or Superintendents it seemeth that they are of the better sort of the Famiâ—ie Churche or Cougregation out of which they are taken do doe that Office And further whose bookes were compâ—ed then worthy the copieng out and were so kept then that they remaine yet vnto vs And are so accepted at this present that they be translated into French His credite needeth not to be mistrusted or called without cause into question He wrote also vnto Hunericus King of Uandales an accoÌ„pt of his faith being driuen thereto by the CoÌ„maundement of y â— King By which you may perceiue that great accoÌ„pt was made of him Concerning then his age he liued not long after the time of S. Augustine farre within the First six hundred yeares out of which any Testimonie is sufficient against you For when the Uandales were in Aphrica and were busy in furthering the Procedinges of the Arrians then liued Uictor as may appeere by his Answer to Hunericus by diuerse places of his historie in which he speaketh of him selfe as one present at y â— doing
of things For in this very place which is alleged ouâ— of him for y â— Supremacie of the Church of Rome he saith that when Hunericus had required by his Edict and Commaundement that the Catholike Bishops should by a day meete at Carthage there to haue theyr faith examined and tried Cognoscentibus igitur qui aderamus simul c. Vve then that vvere togeather knovving of this Decree did tremble at the hart especially because of those vvordes of the Edict In Prouincijs nostris à Deo nobis concessis â–ª scandalum esse nolumus quasi id diceret in Prouincijs nostris Catholicos esse nolumus Vvâ— vvil that in the Prouinces graunted by God to vs there be no scandalum or offense as though he should say vve vvil not that any Catholiques be in our Prouincies Him self therfore being then present when Hunericus Edict came to the Bishops of Aphrica and that persequâ—â—ion of the Uandales beginning about the yeare of our Lord. 435. no man should reasonablie doubt of the age in which Uictor liued But these thinges you say are not wel knowen If they be knowen it is inough As for the wel knowing of them you are either so suspitious or malicious y â— I feare it wil neuer be wel knowen y â— which commeth directly against your Procedinges For how easy a mater is it to deny and doubt and obiect and finde faulte and make somwhat alwaies lacking You finde the Boke extant and that before this age in which your Heresies haue vpstarted and the Catholikes haue sought to suppresse them You see it alleaged You see it allowed you bring nothing againste it neither that it was â—ound of late neither that the phrases of Speach are vncongrue and barbarouse neither that he hath any fault in his storie neither that graue and learned men haue doubted of him nor ani other exception which maie take Credite away from it And what reason then is there in it that you should make strife and contenâ—ion where none was before and rather folow your owne Negatiue without any cause or probabilitie than the Catholikes Affirmatyue which bring furth the Euidence of the booke it selfe for them Maie we thinke you to haue any regard to the first six hundred yeres Or any Reuerence towardes Auncient writers which are so loth to admit the bokes that come furth in their names and so Ready to make all the Exceptions that ye possibly can Or Suspitions against them It is not wel knowen say you of what Credite he was or when he lyued Is it not well knowen If he made in any point for the Lutherans or Sacramenâ—aries opinion you would not only haue knowen hym wel but also praised him excedingly but now becasue he confirmeth the Catholike Faith and declareth such cruell practises of the Barbarous Uandales then against the Catholike Priestes and Bishopes as are most lyke the merciful Procedings of the Gentle Gospellers of these tymes againste the Catholikes And because he preferreth the Church of Rome before all other Churches And praieth to the Sainctes And sheweth hymselfe most Euidently to be A Papist you knowe hym not and you regard hym not So that you be ruled by Affections and not by Reasons and you passe no more vpon Antiquitie sauing for y â— fasshion that al lerned and wise men doe make accompte of it than you doe vpon your rochet gowne typet fower cornerd Cap and other such thinges that goe cleane againste the Conscience sauing that you condescend therin vnto the weakelings as yet in your faith least you should make them werys of you altogether Yet although you be very wyse hypocrites out breaketh for al that sometymes the Iesting and Scoffing inward Sprite that in open Sermoâ—s and printed Bokes speaketh of the holy and old Fathers ful Reâ—erently As shal by most manifeste examples appeere S. Benet how Uertuous wyse holy Contemplaâ—iue and Diuine a Father he was if the world that hath bene euer sâ—ns would or could saie nothing S. Gregorie alone hath saied inough Which being now â—ope and to good a man to mynd vnprofitable tales and to muche occupied to intend it in writing fower bookes of notable and worthie men and mâ—ters the Second he bestoweth vppon S. Benet alone Declaring suche thinges in it as he had heard of most Reuerende Fathers and S. Benets owne Scholars Constantius Valentinianus Simplicius and Honoratus by reading of whiche the Faithful coulde not but be moued to beleue that God is VVonderfull in his holy ones and that his frindes are excedingly honored In tellinge then many thinges of S. Benet he cummeth at length vnto this VVhen a certaine younge Monke of S. Benets had vppon a tyme gone out of the Monasterie vvithout his blessinge home to his Father Mothers house vvhich he loued more then he shoulde haue done the selfe same daie as sone as he vvas come vnto them he dyed And after he had ben novve buried his bodie the next daie vvas founde caste vp vvhiche they prouided to burie againe But they founde it the nexte daie cast vp againe and vnburied as before Then loe they ranne vvith speede vnto â—ather Benets feete and vvith muche vveepinge desyred hym to be so good as to graunt hys fauour aend mercie vnto hym To vvhome the Man of God gaue straite vvaye vvith his ovvne handes the Commâ—nion of our Lordes bodie saieng Gâ—e ye and put ye this bodie of our Lord vppon his breaste and so burie hym VVhich as sone as it vvas done the earth toke and kepte his bodie and caâ—st it vp no more Thus far S. Gregorie But whaâ— saieth M. Iewel to the mater Forsath his sentence is this It was but fondly done by S. Benet as Gregorie reâ—orteth of hym to cause the Sacrament to be laied vpon a dead mans breast Was it but fondly donne Howe dare you so interprete the fact of an Auncient and holy Father How dare you dissent from the Opinion that S. Gregorie and other elder Fathers whom he folowed had of it Are you he that regardeth Antiquitie Are you he whom one sufficient sentence of any Catholike Father or Doctor shal make to yeld The fact you doe not denie Against the workeâ— of it you bring no exception S. Gregorie the Reporter of it lyued within the first six hundred yeres And he reporteth it to the Praise of S. Benet And the effect whiche God gaue declareth that it was not mislyked and how â—are you say it was but fondly done But this is it that I say Though you looke demurely vpon Reuerend and old Fathers and speake as though you regarded their wordes and deedes yet sometymes your Sprite is so moued in you that from the pytte of your harte it cummeth vp to the typ of your tongue and boldly geaueth sentence against those persons whom the whole world for age Holynes Lerning and Iâ—dgement doth worthely esteeme and whom yourselfe dare not dishonour but couertly Wherefore that
somuch vsed in the primitiue Church The Church sence that tyme hath chaunged the maner of kissing and kepte the signification whiche was in it by geauing of the pax or peace But this peace say you was not a litle table of syluer or somwhat els as hath bene vsed yea and is still vsed in the Churche of Rome but a very cosse in deede in token of perfit peace and vnitie in faith and religion So Iustinus Martyr saieth speaking of the tyme of the holy Mysteries we salute one an other with a cosse So likewyse Chrysostome and others True it is M. Iewel and knowing so much of the practise in the Primitiue Church why doe ye not vse this so Auncient and holy a Ceremonie If you will not haue the Pax of syluer either for sparinge of charges Or feare of Commissioners vpon Church goodes Or in despite of the Church of Rome vse then in your mysteries a very cosse in deede according to the Paterne of the Primitiue Church And iâ— neither old nor newe Ceremonies can please you why crake you in contemning the Later that yet you regarde stil the Auncient and Approued Orders Or with what face doe you allege these approued Fathers testimonies by whose sayings you wil not be ruled M. Iewel is alwaies â—â—sie iâ— proâ—ing that the people in the Primitiue Churche dyd Communicate with the Priest As though the concluding of that were a cleane ouerthrowe to the Catholike Religion yet no Catholike did euer deâ—se it and aâ— this tyme also when Charitie is 〈…〉 yet doe the people often in the yere 〈◊〉 with the Priest Now by occasâ—on of proâ—ing this which I must againe saie no man denieth he saieth in diuerse places of his Replie The Deacons receiue the Communion aftervvard the Mysteries be caried vnto a place vvhere the people must Communicate It is lawful only for the Priestes of the Church to enter into the place vvhere the Aultare standeth and there to Communicate Let the Priestes and Deacons Communicate before the aultare the Clerkes in the quiere and the peoâ—le vvithout the quiere Howe like you these dstinctions of Places and Persâ—ns M. Iewel Yea rather why lyke you them not Haue not yoâ—â—ulled downe Chauncell Taken away partitions made the pauement thoroughout leuell Set the Communion table in the myddle Set formes for the Laitie to sit about it And haue not your selfe geauen strange orders as it were to al the people noting it by your owne wit as appâ—ereth out of Fabian the Pope that men and women made the sacrifice of the aultare and of bread and wine and therefore after the order of Melchisedech But if the people could not so much as come nigh the Aultare where the Priest stode or receyâ—e at the most in the quier how far of were they at those daies from y â— irreuereÌ„cie y â— now is vsed And how far wide are you froÌ„ y â— towardâ—es is reforme al things by the paterne of the primitiue Church Yet are you not afraied nor Ashamed to allege those Councels and Authorities which condemne your â—rocedinges vtterly S. Basile saieth M. Iewel thinking still all thinges to helpe hym that proue a coÌ„munitating of moe together reporteth an ecclesiastical decree or CanoÌ„ that at the receiuing of the holy Communion which he calleth Mysticum pasca ther ought to be twelue persons at the least and neuer vnder And you to proue your selues folowers of Antiquitie and Restorers of ecclesiastical Canons haue decreed that three shall make vp a Communion and for A neede the Prieste and the sicke person alone Si haec vasa c. If the mater be so daungerous to put these sanctified vessels vnto Priuate vses wherein is conteined not the very body of Christ but the mysterie or Sacrament of Christes body c. You iudge I perceiue the Author of that booke to be S. Chrysostome and this place to be true and godly Therefore â–ª that you maie consider it the better and by your commendacion other Protestantes I wil englishe the whole sentence vnto them The Author of that booke whosoeuer he were persuading with the people to vse wel their tongue least vncleane spirites doe enter thereby into their bodies If it be synne and daunger saieth he to put haloued vessels vnto priuate vses as Balthasar teacheth vs vvhich because he dranke in halovved cuppes vvas put byside his kingdome and his life If then it be so daungerous a mater to put these sanctified vessels vnto priuate vses in vvhich the true bodie of Christ is not but the mysterie of his bodie is conteined hovv much more behoueth it vs concerning the vessels of our bodie vhich God hath prepared for himselfe to dvvel in not to geaue the deuil place to doe in them vvhat he vvil A stronge argument surely and persuasible For if deade metal which by it selfe is not apte to receiue holinesse be had yet in Reuerence because of the speciall vse which it serueth for in the temple of God how should not our bodies the lyuely vessels of our reasonable Soules be kepte still pure and Inuiolâ—â—ed If for the vessels which Balthasar â—â—phaned which serued in the Figurâ—â— of the old law which had not y â— very body of Christ in them â–ª but A signe and Mysterie only thereof If for these God plagueth and striketh how shal they escape which receiue into their bodies the very true Body of Christ and haue God corporally dwelling in them through the Mysterie of his Incarnation and vertue of his Consecration And yet dare turne themselues vnto prophane vncleane vses This is the true sense of that place But when begyn you M. Iewel to tell openly the daunger which they incurre before god though y â— world alow it which Either after vow made of Chastitie haue turned them selues first out of their Monasteries and shortly after haue ouerturned themselues into Incestuous Carâ—alitie Either spoiling the Churches of God of the halowed and consecrated vessels haue conuerted them into prophane vses and drinke in Chalices at their Tables No doubt by the example of Balthasar but that they are in sore daunger which serue themselues anâ— their priuate Affections with the 〈◊〉 and proper vessels appointed for God And if it be so in corruptible and base maters are not the polluted weddinges of Nonâ—es Monkes harlottes and Renegates much more accursed and execrable But when wil you protest this much M. Iewel And if you like not this consequence why refuse yoâ— your owne witnesse This place also that foloweth is made to serue for prouâ—e that there were that Communicated with the Priest They that haue fallen into Heresie and do penance for the same vvhen the Nouices that be not yet Christened be commaunded to depart out of the Church let them depart also â–ª Ergo they that remained did Communicate togeather Wel to let go y â—
euen the Religion it selfe which corrupte persons professed Whome faire Promises of Gospellers that they would shewe you a ready and shorte way vnto Heauen in which you should haue no cariage of Ceremonie Tradition Lentes Fast Penaunce Feare of Purgatorie c. And that you should haue al things ministred vnto you in like order and manner as they were vsed emong the faithful in the Primitiue Churche you I say whom these faire promisâ—â— haue made to forsake the Olde and Catholique Religion vpon hope to finde a more Auncient and Receiued ReligioÌ„ which y â— new Masters holy Doctors councels would teach you BEWARE you of M. Iewel For wheras you would not haue forsaken y â— râ—ligion in which you were baptized which al Christians then in al the world professed opeÌ„ly exâ—â—pt you had beleued y â— as it was told you so you should â—e reduced to the perfite state of A true Religion euen as it was to be found in the Primitiue Church how misâ—rably are ye nowe deceaued where your Mâ—sters doe not in deede regarde the Example and practise of the same Churche for loue and desâ—er of which you folowed them leading you quite awaie from the Obedience of the present Church How wel maie euerie one of you whome M. Iewel hath peruerted â—aie vnto hym Syr haue you put me in this hope that in folowing of you I should goe in the safe waie of the primitiue Church of holy Fathers of Auncient Councels And my mynde geauing me that al was not wel in this present Church in which you and I both were baptised and that the neerer one might come to the beginninges of the Christian Faith he should find it the more surer and purer haâ—e you serued my humour therein and promising to reforme al thinges according to the paterne of the Auncient Catholike Church are you proued in the eâ—d to neglect those selfe same orders which were obserued in the most best and most Auncient tymes Spake you faire vnto me vntil I was come vnto you from the Cumpanie where I lyned and doe ye not 〈◊〉 those thinges vnto me for hopâ— of whiche I brake from my 〈…〉 cosse I know or a curtaine Or A 〈◊〉 in the Church are not essential anâ— without them we maie be saued But yet if in the pure and Primitiue Churche such thinges were alowed you haue not done wel to make me contemne the Pax or vestmentes or distinction of places such as were vsed in the Church from which I departed And yet If these thinges be buâ— light and Ragges as some wil saie of the 〈◊〉 Religion was the building of Monasteries a light mater in the primitiue Church And that Rule of lyfe which Monkes then folowed was it of smal importance by the Iudgement of that worlde so nigh to Christ You haue made me beleue that to lyue in such Order should be a derogation to the merites of Christe A trusting to our owne workes A â—ondage of conscience a promise of thinges impossible A Superstitioâ—s and 〈◊〉 fashion and at one worde that Monkerie should be Trumperie And yet doth it appeare by our owne allegations that Monkes and Abbates were in the Primitiue Church and that they were also in greate repâ—â—ation What shal I saie of the most highe and dreadful Mysterie the Sacrament of the bodie and Bloud of Christ whereas the witnesses that yoâ— bring in for other purposes doe testifie vnto me that the Cuppe of the Lord was mingled with wine and water can I take in good part and with a quiet Conscience that you put no water at al in the Cup of the Lord If you had not chalenged if you had not prouoked if you had not geauen most infallible tokens as me thought that al Antiquitie had gone smothe with you or if you had refused at y â— beginning al other Authoritie bysides the Expresse Scriptures I might haue deliberated whether I would haue folowed you or no But now making so large goodly promises that you would not take my Religion awaie from me but that you would only reforme it that you would not denie the Faith whiche the whole world professeth buâ— require it to be reduced vnto the order of the Primitiuâ— Church I yelded quickly therein vnto you and thought that these surely be the men of God whiche shall purge the Church of al Superfluites and leaue it in as good health constitution as euer it was in her florisshing tyme. And are you not ashamed that the very printes and steppes of papistry are found euen within that age which you warranted vnto me to be altogether for the Gospel And that in those selfsame testimonies which your selfe vpon occasion doe bring out against the Papistes what were not they themselues lykely to shew if they might be suffered to vtter what diuersitie there is betwixt this Late welfauored Gospel and the Catholike old Religion seeing that you can not so order the mater in reciting of Auncient Fathers Councels but it must be straite wayes perceaued that your procedings are not conformable vnto the Primitiue Church O wretched and vile Glorie to fill the margine of a Booke with the Councels of Nice Carthage Chalcedon Constantinople Ephesus c. and with the testimonies of Anacletus Felix Soter Calixtus Chrysostom Basile Ambrose Augustine c. as though that it were not M. Iewel that made any thing of his owne but as though in al that he concluded he folowed most exactly the holy Councels and Fathers â–ª and before all be knowen to be conuinâ—â—â— most cleerly and euidently that his doeinges are not lyke the holy Fathers Religion what a confusion is it vnto that Glorie and what a Detriment to right meaning and wel willing consciencies In this sort might an honeste and graue man complaine and say lesse than M. Iewel deserueth For now I will shew vnto thee IndiffereÌ„t Reader that he allegeth and that very sadly and solemly the testimonies of Heretikes as though it were no mater at al how wel it would be admitted emong the lerned so that the common Reader be perswaded that M. Iewel speaketh not without his Authorities For proufe thereof let this be one Example The Bishopes of the East part of the vvorlde being Arians vvriting vnto Iulius the Bishope of Rome tooke it greeâ—ously that he vvould presume to ouer rule them And shevved him that it vvas not lavvful for him by any sleight or colour of appeale to vndoe that thing that they had done This is one of M. Iewels testimonies to proue against the Bishoppe of Romes Supremacie In alleaging of which although he lacked a point of discretion in bringing of their sentencies furth whom al the worlde hath condemned for starcke Heretikes yet he hath not forgoten al conscience and charity in that he confesseth to his Reader that these Bishoppes of the East whose doinges he thinketh worthie to be consydered were Arians Which I praie thee Indifferent Reader to
thinke wel vpon that it maie be perceiued howe wel the Protestantes and Arrians agree together in their prowde and rebellious behauyours how wel the testimonie of blasphemous Heretikes maie serâ—e to disproue any Catholike and honest conclusion An other Example is Donatus being condemned by threescore ten Bishops in Aphrica Appealed vnto the Emperour Constantinus and was receiued But what was Donatus A singular prowd heretike For profe wherof let y â— Epistles and bookes whiche S. Augustin wrote against him and his folowers be witnesses Let that 〈◊〉 also be witnesse which S. Augustine wrote purposely of heresies In which the Donatiani or Donatistae haue their proper place For when Cecilanus A Catholike and good man was made against their wils Bishope of Carthage they obiected certaine crimes against vs which being not proued and sentence going against their Donatus being their Captain they tooke such a Stomake that they turned their Schisme into heresie and helde the opinion that al they whatsoeuer they were in the worlde bysides that agreed not with them were infected and excommunicated persons And herevpon as the nature of heresie is to goe deeper and deeper still into desperate blindnes and presumption they dyd baptise againe suche as had ben alreadie baptised in the Catholike Churche It appeereth alsâ— what an honest and Catholike man 〈◊〉 was in that M. Iewel confesseth hym to haue been condemned of three score and ten Bishopes whiche was not I beleue for any humilitie Obedience Faith or Charitie of his Donatus then beinge an Heretike what hath M. Iewel to doe with hym Lyke will to lyke perchaunce and the same Sprite y â— inflamed Donatus warmeth M. Iewel otherwyse it is not to be gathered out of the practises of Heretikes what the Order that we ought to folowe was in the Primitiue Churche But of the Catholike and alowed Examples And if M. Iewel could shewe that this Appeale of Donatus vnto the Emperour from the Bishopes that condemned hym was good and lawful in the Iudgement of any Father or Doctour of that age then might this example haue some lykelyhoode in it to serue his purpose otherwise him selfe doth minister the Catholike an Exception againste his owne witnesse the Auncient and Reâ—â—rend Heretike Donatus But Constantinus the Emperour â—eceaued his Appeale What of that Is al wel done that Emperours doe And are noâ— manie thinges permitâ—â—d vnto them for Ciuile Policie and quiet sake which by right folowing to Ecclesiasâ—ical orders should not be suffered Againe Constantinus was a Christian Catholike and good Emperour and he receiued in deed Donatus Appeale but receaâ—ed he it willingly or no And thought he hymselfe to doe therein lawfully as A Supreme head and Gouernour or els to passe the bondes of his Imperial Authoritie and to medle with a Iurisdiction belonging to more excellent Officers UVndoubtedly he would faine haue been rid of the importunitie of the Donatistes and lyked it not in his owne conscience that himselfe should be taken for the highest Iudge in maters Ecclesiastical HJow proâ—e I this now Sufficiently inough by S. Augustine And marke the place well Indifferent Reader that thou maiest see the deuotion of that so mightie an Emperour First Donatus and his felowes perceiuing that although they had condemned Cecilianus y â— Bishope of Carthage and set an other of their ownâ— making in his place Yet the rest of the Bishopes of the world dyd stil write and send to Cecilianus as the true Bishope in deede and such as they communicated withal they I saie perceauing this made sute to Coâ—stantinâ—s the Emperour that they might haue the cause of Cecilianus examined before the Bishopes of beyond the seas In which point S. Augustine findeth that they had a duble fetche and subtiltie The one that if those Bishoppes whom the Emperour had procured to heaâ—e the whole mater should condemne Cecilianus then loe they should haue their lust fulfilled The other that if those should absolâ—e him then would he with his fellowes say that the Iudges were not indifferent and so by consequence appeale from them In which case though as S. Augustin saith there remained a general Councel of the vniuerfal Church in which the cause betweene them and their Iudges shoulde haue ben handeled yet what did they Mary they went to the Emperour and accused the foresaid Bishopes before him And how was this taken thinke we of the Catholikes Uerely not wel as appeereth by S. Augustine which noteth the Donatistes of folish boldnes therein Iudices enim Ecclesiasticâ—s c. For the Ecclesiastical Iudges Bishopes of so great Authoritie by vvhose sentence and iudgement both the Innocencie of Cecilianus and their naughtinessâ— vvas declared these men of such worthines saith S. Augustine they durst accuse not before other their felâ—vvebishopes and Collegies but vnto the Emperour that they had 〈◊〉 iudged vvel But now when they had broken the order of the Ecclesiastical Law and were come to the Emperour what did he Did he commende their Obedience or Wisedome Did he preferre his owne Courte and Authoritie before the Consistoâ—ie and Iudgement of Bishoppes What he did the Actes and Registers of his owne Courte declare as S. Austine recordeth out of it For after y â— Donatistes were now coÌ„demned by y â— Pope of Rome other Bishopes assistant and refused to stand to their sentence requiring helpe at the Emperours handes Dedit ille aliud Iudicium Arelatense aliorum scilicet Episcoporum He gaue and appointed vnto them other Iudges at Arles I meane other Bisshoppes Why if the Emperour had in those daies taken the Pope for chiefe Bishope in al the worlde would he haue further committed vnto the Bishop of Arls the sitting vpon that cause which already was decided by the Bishop of Rome It seemeth altogeather vnlikely And therefore M. Iewel may be thought to bring in deede an inuincible Argument for the Emperours Supremacie against the Supremacie of the Bishop of Rome But marke the Circumstances and Considerations which moued the Emperour and then wil the contrary conclusion be manifestly proued that the Emperour tooke him selfe to be the inferiour vnto Bishops euen in that cause which was brought vnto him after Bishopes and which he caused to be examined againe after it was sufficiently iudged For thus it foloweth in S. Austin Dedit ille aliud Arelatense Iudicium non quia iam necesse erat sed eorum peruersitatibus cedens omnimodo cupiens tantam Impudentiam Cohibere That is He gaue other Iudges not because it vvas novv necessarie but because be yelded to the frovvardnes of them the Donatistes and desired by al meanes to restraine so great Impudencie of them Neque enim aâ—sus est Christianus Imperator sic eoruÌ„ tumultuâ—sas fallaces querelas suscipere vt de iudiciâ— Episcoporum qui Romae sederant ipse Iudicaret sed alios vt dixi Episcopos dedit For the Christian Emperour as who should say other Emperours
of the Pope as at these Daies is allowed But what shall we say It can not be denied but the Bishoppes of the Easte those of whome Sozomenus and Socrates speake did take themselues to be as good as the Bishop of Rome and disdayned to yâ—lde obedience vnto him But were they Catholiks or Heretiks Undoutedly Heretikes and that of the worste â—â—king For they were Arâ—ians Howe proue I this Mary by Sozomenus and Socrates both which agree in telling the Storie And that is this At what tyme S. Athanasius fled to Rome being persequâ—ted of the Arrians â—or defending of the Consubstantialitie of God the Sonne with the Father it so â—ame to â—asse that at the same time Paulus Bisshoppe of Constantinople and Marcellus Bisshoppe of 〈◊〉 and Asclepas Bisshoppe of 〈…〉 Bisshop of Hadrianoâ—le 〈◊〉 also to Rome being al Catholike Bisshoppes and al dryuen out of their Churches and Sees through the Accusations and Iâ—uasions of the Arrians Herevpon Iulius the Bisshoppe of Rome vnderstanding what faultes were layed to their charges And perceiuynge that all were of one mynde concernynge the Decrees of the Nicene Couâ—cell he thoughte it meete to communicate with them as with men of the same faith and opinion with him And as Sozomenus writeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because of the vvorthines and digniti of his See or as Socrates saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 forasmuch as the church of Rome had the Prerogatiues priuilegies â–ª he restored euery one of them to his See And wrote freely and sharply to the Bishops of the East which had expelled them declaring that they had troubled the Churche and that they had not iudged aright of the forsaid Bishops Requiring furthermore y â— some of them should appere at an appointed day before him aâ—d that he would not suffer it if they ceased not to be newfangled The Arrian Bishoppes vppon the receipt of this letter and for indignation that the Bishop of Rome had restored to their lauful Sees the catholike Bishops â—â—hanasius Paulus Marcellus Asâ—leâ—â—â— Lucius whom they had vnplaced they called a Councel at Antioche and 〈◊〉 againe a faire letter to Pope Iulius ful of prety scoffes and tauntes and not without sharpe threatenings also And emong other points these that M. Iewel reckeneth are some that forsoth they ought not to be accompted inferiour to the Church of Rome And that they ought not to be ordered by the Romaine Bishope Hitherto is the storie as I gather it out of Socrates and Sozomenus Consider now of it indifferent Reader Was Athanasius an holy Bishope or no Was he a most worthy and tried defendour of the Catholike faith or no Did almighty God miraculously defend him against al his enemies or no Eusebius Sozomenus Socrates Theodoritâ—s al y â— euer wrote the storie of y â— time speak so much good of him 〈◊〉 declare such a prouidence of God to haue ben about him that he must be a very blinde and wretched Arrian which seeth not his worthines Or 〈◊〉 at his Glory And whom then follow you M. Iewel Those Bishops of the East whom your wisdome and Religion bringeth in for substantial witnesses They condemned Athanasius And for what other cause so principally as for his defending of the Catholike faith against the blasphemies of y â— Arrians Alow yow then his condemnaâ—oâ— Utter now your stomake and speake plainly whether you beleue y â— Christ is of one the selfe same Substanâ—ce with his Father Shew yourselfe as you are in your Opinions and put of the name and person of an honest Superintendent which you would seeme to beare and with al boldenesse vtter your secrete Diuinitie For hâ—re nowe I chalenge you here I charge you Alow you the Condemnation of â—thaâ—asius which your Bishops of the East concluded vpon If you doe Auaunt Arriaâ—â— â–ª If you doe not how can you but thinke euil of such arrogant and wicked Arrians which not oÌ„ly put him our of his See but also when he was restoâ—ed againe vnto it by the Iudgement of the Bisshop of Rome contemned that his SenteÌ„ce with greater spite and Insolencie than they had expelled Athâ—nesius and others at the first I say further If Athanasius Paulus Marcellus Asclepas and Lucius so 〈◊〉 Fathers â–ª â—eing â—râ—elled by the 〈◊〉 of the Easte thought themselues safe inough against all their Enemies hauing the letters of the Bishop of Rome for their lawful Returne vnto their Sees should not this alone be Argument inough to any Indifferent Protestant in all y â— world that he should not Contemne Abandone and Accurse the Authoritie of the See of Rome For whereas the Examples of Learned and Holy men are to be followed And whereas M. Iewel the Challenger w t others of his vaine doe pretend greate Reuerence towardes Antiquitie prouoking their Aduersaries to bring Testimonies out of the Primitiue Church And exhorting their Hearers and Readers to consider the practise of the Auncient tymes and Fathers how should he not haue the Bishop of Rome in greate Admiration whom he seeth to haue ben so highly estemed of the greate Bishops or Patriarches rather of y â— Easte Church Athanasius Paulus Marcellus c. y â— his letters were of more force w t them to restore them to their Sees than their own Power Habilitie was to kepe theÌ„selues in their own places when they had them Note also that whereas they were expelled by violence And wer seâ—t home again not with an Armie but with Letters onely Yet those letters preuailed so much with the People also of their Cities and Countries that straite wayes they were gladly receiued And had it not ben for the Conuenticle and Conspiracie of the forsaid Arrian Bishops of the East in which they not onely set al their owne Power against the Catholike Bishops Athanasiâ—s Paulus c. restored by the Pope of Rome but accused them to the Emperour CoÌ„stantinus making him to vse Uiolence against them the Catholike people of Constantinople Alexandria and other places would haue honored and Obeyed them stil as their owne true and lauful Bishopes Of which it is easy to gather that First the Blessed and Reuerend Bishops themselues Athanasius Paulus c. did seâ— very much by y â— Bishop of Romes letters and sentence And then that the Catholik and deuout people also of those quarters did regard and obey the same Thirdly that such as resisted then the Authoritie of y â— Bishope of Rome were plaine Arrians And last of al that it was not done by law or any order that those holy Bishopes Athanasius Paulus c. enioyed not the right of their own Seeâ— but by false Accusations of the Arrian Superintendenteâ— and Indignation Stomake Ediâ—â— Uiolence Persecution of the Emperour Constantius How litle then doth this Example of the Arrian Bishoppes make for M. Iewels purpose Yea rather how much doth it make cleane against hym For when wicked and nawghtie mens
of Christs entring into his passion and that done to receiue bread and wine in remembrance thereof and to be thankeful therefore he promised to come hymselfe and set thinges in order and therefore such orders and maners as the whole Church hath and doth throughly vse about the celebration of the Mysteries are to be thought to haue come from the Apostles Of these words then also As for the rest vvhen I come my selfe I vvil dispose it maie with good reason be gathered that the Apostle did prescribe orders and rules to be obserued concerning Persons Time and Place with other Circumstances And that the Institution of Christ stretched no further than to Consecration Oblation and Participation of his pretious bodie And that one alone or manie togeather to receaue was not by Christ apointed but left to his Apostles to be ordered But it foloweth in M. Iewel that S. Augustine in this place speaketh not one word of any number But only of the time of Receauing whether it might seme conuenient to minister the Communion after Supper You be verie bold either with S. Augustine or with your Reader Doe ye cal y â— speaking only of the time where the question of tyme is not at al spoken of Reade the place who wil and if there be any such question intreated as M. Iewel reporteth although I haue many Arguments to the contrarie yet wil I say he is an honest and true man In the fifthe chapiter of that epistle these questions are mentioned whether vpon good friday Oblation and Sacrifice should be done twise in the morning first and then after supper Item whether the people should first keepe their faste then eate that daies meale and last of all haue the Oblation and Sacrifice made Or first keepe their faste and then haue the Sacrifice made and last of al go to their meales meat To which questioÌ„s his answer is that euery man should in these points do as y e vse of the church is vnto which he cummeth Because ther is nothing in them against either Faith or good maners In the next chapiter folowing out of which D. Harding toke his testimony the question doubt is not whether one might Offer or Receaue in the morning or at euening which perteineth to tyme but whether he that had eaten the same daie before might afterwardes either Offer or Receaue the bodie of Christe whiche is A Question concerninge the state of the Persons only And not the qualitie of Tyme Unto which his answer is that it hath pleased y â— holy Ghost that for the honour of so great a Sacrament the bodie of our Lord should first enter into the mouth of a Christian before external and carnal meates Now because the heretike might say as some in these daies vphold where is it in al the Scripture that a man should come fasting to the communion And whi might not one if he would receiue after Supper as the Apostles dyd or in the Supper tyme as the Corinthians dyd S. Augustine meeteth with this obiection alleging that sentence which M. Harding to like effect vsed and saying That in vvhat order the Sacrament should be receiued Christ gaue no precept thereof but left that office to his Apostles Let M. Iewel now defend hymselfe if he can and proue that he hath not falsly reported of S. Augustine in the place of the Epistle ad â—anuarium saying of hym that he speaketh not one word of the number of CoÌ„municantes but only of the tyme of Receauing That he speaketh only of the time of Receauing it is false For these be his wordes Saluator non praecepit quo deinceps ordine sumeretur vt Apostolis per quos dispositurus erat ecclesiam seruaret hunc locum Our Sauiour gaue no commaundemeÌ„t in vvhat order it should be Receaued to the intent he might leaue that mater to his Apostles by vvhom he vvould dispose his Church Hereof I gather this Argument The apointing of Order how thinges should be don doth extend itself to more than apointing only of the time in which it is to be done But of the Authoritie left with the Apostles to set an Order in Receauing of the Sacrament S. Augustine doth speake in his epistle 〈…〉 speaketh only of the tyme of receauing S. Gregorie abused In the communion As the people saied the Lordes praier altogether as it is noted by S. Gregorie so they Receaued al togeather Are ye not ashamed so to say that it is noted so by S. Gregorie we haue I thinke his epistles in the same priâ—t as you haue them and y â— effect of that epistle out of which you haue gathered this note vpon S. Gregorie is that he answereth certaine persons which thought it was vnmeete that he should goâ— aboute to keepe vnder the Church of Constantinople but his owne Church And of the Pater noster he saith Dominica oratio apud Graecos ab omni populo dicitur apud nos autem a solo Sacerdote Our Lordes praier is said among the Grecians of al the people but with vs it is saied by the Priest alone Here then I appose you againe M. Iewel was the Masse of S. Gregories tyme a Communion or Priuate Masse â–ª for you make an oppositioÌ„ betwen these two thinges If it were a priuate masse then must you yeld and subscribe because it is then found by your own confession within the first six hundred yeres If it were a Communion how say you that the people said the coÌ„munion praier al together as it is noted by S. Gregorie wheras you see him so plainely to testifie that in Rome the Priest alone dyd saie our Lordes Praier Yea say you perchaunce but it was otherwise emonge the Greekes and in their Communion the people saied the Lords praier al together Yea but S. Gregorie noteth not only such point and he speaketh not of their communion or not CoÌ„munion So that you be exceding much to blame for abusing the names of holy Doctours so vainely and making them to be compted to thinke that which they doe not speake S. Cyprian abused The Catholâ—ke Faith is that the Churche is not bound by the vertue of Christes Institution to deliuer the Sacrament vnder forme of wine vnto the people The hereâ—ikes repiâ—e against it and saie that by Christes Institution the people should Receiue the Cup also But how wil this be proued By many old Fathers But In steede of many for shortnes sake to allege but one S. Cyprians wordes in this mater be verie plaine Remember then what the mater is You must proue out of S. Cyprian that the people should Receaue not in the one kinde alone of Bread but of wine also And if you M. Iewel wil not remember it yet I praie thee gentle Reader to marke diligently whether he proue any such thing out of S. Cyprian Some ther be that in sanctifiyng the cup and deliuering it
a thing to be amisse but what that is it is not yet specially declared And out of this one sentence M. Iew. peeketh an absolute Testimonie y â— it is Christes InstitutioÌ„ that the people should haue the Cup deliuered vnto them because he loueth not y â— truth should be stolen away in a mist. The seÌ„se of the next sentence is And thinke not most deere Brother that I vvrite this vpon myne ovvne minde and vvil but when any thing is coÌ„maunded by the Inspiration of God the faithful seruaunt must obey So that this hitherto is nothing but a preface or entrance to the mater Then foloweth the third sentence Admonitos autem nos scias c. But ye shal vnderstand that vve are vvarned by special reuelacion from God that in offering of the Chalice the TraditioÌ„ of our Lord be kept that no other thing be don of vs than that which out â—ord did for vs first â–ª that the Chalice vvhich is offered in remembâ—aunce of him should be mixt vvith 〈◊〉 Lo this is the state of y â— who le Epistle and the Tradition Commaundement of God which so oft so earnestly he speaketh of is referred to this end only y â— wine water should be offered vp togeather in the Mysteries And y â— fault which he findeth with the celebrating y â— some vsed was y â— they toke water only into y â— Chalice like as on the coÌ„trary side y â— Heretikes now take only wine Both which extremes the TraditioÌ„ CoÌ„maundement of God which S. Cyprian doth proue by y â— olde and new Testament most abundantly doth so fully perfitely confound that as the Aquarij then were disproued so the Vinarij now should be ashamed But as concerning the diliuering of the Sacrament in one or both kindes he intended it not nor determineth it And this M. Iewel perceiued wel inough y â— S. Cyprian in that Epistle was wholy bent against Aquarij were they schismatikes only or heretiks and that the fault which he laboreth to ameÌ„d in them was not for not geuing the cup vnto the people but for geuing water only in it and not wine mixt with water Where then was M. Iewels wit to let go many fathers which he wold haue it thought to be for him and for shortnes sake to allege only S. Cyprian and that S. Cyprian should speake nothing at al of that questioÌ„ which properly is demauÌ„ded of vs and to which we looked for an absolute and perfite answer from him It is not credible but he saw wel inough what we could Replie and therfore he prouided this safegard for his estimation For thus he saith If S. Cyprian might wel write thus against the Heretikes called Aquarij which in the holy ministratioÌ„ would not vse wine but in stede thereof did Consecrate water and Ministred it vnto the People much more may we say the same against our Aduersaries which Consecrate and Minister vnto the people no Cup at al. What you may saie it is an other question but we seke now what S. Cyprian did say If that Learned and blessed Father whom you haue alleaged in stede of many if he spake nothing directly of our question it is no mater to vs what you wil Applie him vnto neither was it cunningly inough donne of you to bring him alone whereas you had except you belie your selfe copie which maketh nothing at al for you but by a consequence of your owne deuising And yet this very Consequence of yours doth nothing folow for to consecrate in water onely and to minister it so vnto the people which clause of ministring it vnto the people is in deede out of the mater which S. Cyprian discussed But let it occupie a place if you thinke it wil ease you To Consecrate I say againe in water only and to minister it so vnto the people is against the Tradition Institution and CoÌ„maundement of our Sauiour And this is proued at large throughout y â— who le epistle of â— Cypriâ—â— But to coÌ„secrate the wine water together not to minister it vnto y â— people who is against it what Scripture couÌ„cel or father You say it is against Christes InstitutioÌ„ We deny it You made as though you would proue it ouâ— of S. Cyprian But S. CypriaÌ„ speaketh not of this questioÌ„ yet you say y â— as â— CypriaÌ„ spake against y â— Aquarios for 〈◊〉 in water only and ministring it so vnto the people so may you much more speake against the Church for ministring no Cup at al vnto the peple I haue shewed how vnlike this comparison is But wil you haue a good Argument and like to y â— of s. Cyprians This it is S. Cyprian iustlie founde faulte with the Aquarios for consecrating in water onely and ministring it so vnto the peple Ergo he would haue found fault with your Procedings which put wine only in the Cup and minister it so vnto the people For the Reason on both sides is one that the Tradition of our Lord is to be obserued and that to Consecrate wine and water togeather was his TraditioÌ„ Answere this Argument with al your cuÌ„ning Learned M. Iewel and answer your deere friendes expectation which wil thinke that you haue not abused S. Cyprian The iudgement wherof I permit vnto any reasonable Aduersarie S. Augustine abused S. Augustine willing the Priestes to applie their studies to correct their errours of their Latin speach addeth thervnto this Reason Vt populus ad id quod planè intelligâ—t dicat Amen That the people vnto the thing that they plainly vnderstand may say Amen This of S. Aâ—gustine seemeth to be spoken Generally of al tongues How can it seeme so wheras he so expresly speketh of the Latin tongue only S. Augustine you say willing the Priestes c. This first of al is falsely reported For S. Augustin in this place went not about to exhorte the Priestes to the studie of y â— Latine tongue as who should thinke that it were not to be suffered A Priest or Bishop to be ignorant therein but he shewed how such as come fresh fine from the Scholes of Grammarians and Rhetoricians with knowledge and Eloquence inough of wordes should in their first entrance into y â— church there to be instructed of y â— Catholike Faith learne to be humble wise in iudgement not to contemne y â— Scriptures because they be not writeÌ„in so loftie exquisit a Style as prophane bokes nor to set more by florish of words than substance of Sense And further he saith Nouerint 〈◊〉 nâ— esse vocem ad aures dei sed animi affectuÌ„ it a enim no â—â—â—debâ—t si aliquos Antistites 〈◊〉 Ecclesiae forte animaduerterint vel 〈◊〉 barbarismis solaecismis DenÌ„ muocare vel eadâ— verba quae pronuÌ„ciant noÌ„ intelligere â—turbate â—ue disiâ—â—guere that is Let them vnderstand alâ—s that it
sacrifice with him But how After the order of Melchisedech Or by their own Act Priesthood as M. Iewel gathereth Surely except Guerricus him selfe had made it plaine in what sense the Priest and the People do offer no doubt but M. Iewel in this place would outface vs that this Abbat meant that men and women were Priestes after the order of Melchisedech Notwithstanding that it is not saied the cuÌ„pani of the faithful do coÌ„secrate as though they might do it by themselues but they consecrate with him the Priest signifieng the Office to be singular And it foloweth in the Sermon Neither the Carpenter alone doth make a house but one bringeth roddes an other rafters an other postes or beames and other things By which Similitude it is manifest that the people consecrate in this sense that they bring sumwhat to that end And what is that By this that foloweth it wil be vnderstanded For thus he concludeth Therefore the standers by ought to haue of their owne euen as the Priest ought What A Cope trow you M. Iewel vpon their backes or a Surplesse like Ministers or power and Authoritie of Priesthod No. but a sure faith a pure prayer a godly deuotiâ—n Where then is the Breade and Wine or the Order of Melchisedech which you would proue to perâ—eine to the common people with Therfore S. Bernard saith or Otherwise called Guerricus Here is a Conclusion without Premisses And a comparison without any likelyhoode And A falsification without truth or honestie Alexander of Hales abused The people taking but one kind only receiueth iniurie as M. Harding may see by Alexander de Hales and Durandus other of his owne Doctours Alexanders wordes be these Licèt illa Sumptio c. Although that Order of Receiuing the Sacrâ—ment â–ª which is vnder one kinde be sufficient yet the other which is vnder both kindes is of greater merite Al this M. Iewel is true but this proueth not that the people haue any iniury done vnto them For to Receiue â—nder one kinde it is sufficient by Alexanders expresse wordes but vndoubtedly if any thing lacked of that which were dâ—e â–ª there wer not sufficieÌ„cy Ergo how proue you by Alexander that the people are Iâ—iuried in receiuing vnder one kinde You wil Replie out of him that it is of greater merite to receiue in both kinds than one And what of â—hat It is a greater merite to Celebrate thrise a day as at Christmasse then once as Ordinarily Priestes do vse Do ye thinke then that any Priestes haue Iniury don vnto them because the Order is otherwise that they say but one Masse in one daie except one daie onely in the yeare Againe I say that Alexander noteth a greater merite to be in Receiuing vnder both than one kind not in respect of the Sacramente which is as perfite in one as both and in the least part of one as the whole but in respect of the Receiuers because their deuotion is encreased and their Faith dilated by longer coÌ„tinuing in thâ— Act of Receiuing and their Receiuing is more Complete as being ministred in both kindes And as the causes on the behalfe of the Receiuer do make it to a person so disposed more effectual to Receiue in both than one So other causes there be which doe make y â— Receiuing vnder one kinde to be to the party so affected more fruietful and meritorious than if he tooke both For he that would say vnto him self I wil content my selfe with the common Order of the Church I wil not make any Sturre about both kindes knowing y â— as much is vnder one as both vndoubtedly such a man should both for his Humilitie and for his Faith deserue more a great deale then if he should Receiue in both kindes and find a certaine sense and tast of Denotion The strength therefore and efficatie which Alexander speaketh of depending vpon the Act of the Receiuer and not vpon the Uertue of y â— Sacrament which is al one in effect whether it be ministred in one or both kindes M. Iewel doth very iniuriously to put a fault herein y â— they Receiue not vnder both to make Alexander of this opinion that to minister in one kinde were an Iniurie vnto the people For this I would aske further of him whether the simple and deuout people are not more stirred vp to remember the Death and Bloâ—d of Christe if they should Receiue in Claret or Red Wine than in White No doubt but the imaginatioÌ„ would be more affected and moued by seeing a like colour vnto y â— which it would conceiue than a contrary or diuerse colour How then Would M. Iewel thinke it an Iniury to minister in white wine vnto the people though thei would be desirous of Red He should not thinke it if he be wise And why so Mary because they haue as much in the White as the Red and to receiue in Red hangeth vpon their priuate deuotion not vpon any precept of the Churche or doctrine of the Apostles or Institution of Christe to which onely the Priest is bound and which if he obserue he doth his duety Be it so then that many good â—olke for diuerse causes should be exceedingly moued and edified by drinking of the Chalice and contemplating of more then is Ordinarie in their minde should they haue any Iniurie done vnto them if they receiued afterwardes when the Priest should iudge it expedient vnder y â— forme of bread only Neyther doth Alexander de Hales so say neither any reason doth make for it But let vs see an other place of Alexander which M. Iewel hath abused The same Alexander againe saith Totus Christus c. Whole Christ is not conteined vnder ech kind by way of SacrameÌ„t but the fleash onely vnder the fourme of bread and the bloud vnder the fourme of wine The woordes can not be denied to be Alexanders but what seâ—se gathereth M. Iewel of them Here M. Hardinges owne Doctours confesse that the people Receiuing vnder one kinde receiueth not the ful SacrameÌ„t nor the bloud of Christe by way of Sacrament You vnderstand not Alexander or you wil not For whereas he saith Christ is not conteined vnder ech kinde Sacramentally he meaneth not that the people Receiue not the Ful Sacrament and their owne Maker Godde and Manne vnder eche kinde but by this woorde Sacramentally he meaneth that concerning the forme of wordes by which consecration is perfited in eche kinde and by external forme of the Signes vnder which Christ is exhibited the flesh only is conteined vnder the forme of Breade and the bloud vnder the forme of Vvine As when Christ said This is my bloud the woordes which we heare doe signify no more than Bloude to be there present And y â— external Signe and liquor of wine doth represent a presence of bloud onely And this is that â—hich Alexander meaneth by the worde Sacramentally when he