the text of S. Paule who interpret that place truly they or we The Rhemists name not one ancieÌ„t father who interpreteth that text as they doe First you see they haue not so much as named anie ancieÌ„t father who may bee imagined to leane towards them which is one manifest argument there is none nether vndoubtedly is there any for considering their intollerable ambition in other parts of that booke how they tally vp fathers by skores when they can but preteÌ„d their names they would not now haue omitted them if they could haue told which of them did but looke that way Now for our parts vvee can name doe daily read in the volumes of that great Doctor so much renowned by the Iesuite euen S. Augustine Super Ioan. tract 26. that he doth inter pret that place as we doe For after he hath recited the text of S. Paule he saith verilie the same spirituall meate but the corporall was other because they did eate Manna and wee another thinge Where are the Rhemists now where is Torrensis where are they al Hath shame and grace so left them that they are past blushing Periere mores â—us decus pietas fides qui redire Senec. in â—ga act 2. â—um perit neseit pudor All right religion honestie good maner yea and that which knoweth not how to returne when it is once gone shamfastnesse are cleare cassired by them euen as though the safest way to stop one mischiefe were to fall into many enormities This is so cleare out of S. Augustine Per celera seÌ„ per tutum est sceleribus iter that those diuines amongst them who gathered the booke of sermons homilies set out by the decree of the Trent fathers doe charg S. Augustine in that point with a violent interpretation Which is both an iniurie to that ancient father Opera LaureÌ„tij cum dij Itali post obituÌ„ eius à Francisco Gerardo Molanâ— Ludg. anno 1588. in tertio tomo f. 279. violenta interpretatio ponitur in margine eiusdem libri deeply ingrosseth the Rhemists amongst them who thinke that bookes will not blush whatsoeuer faces will and assureth vs that our interpretation is true and consonant to S. Paules meaning and the Papists in generall are ouerthrowen in that whole question For if the ancient Iewes could and did eate the same Christ that we doe that the same substance was in the Israelits sacraments that is in ours and that a good Iew is a good christian It must needs follow that we eate him no more really substantially in our sacraments then they did in theirs and for them to haue him really and substantially in theirs 2000. yeares before he was incarnate was impossible therfore nether haue we him so I could shew this matter more largly out of S. Augustine if I would staÌ„d about it It sufficeth me first to haue found Torrensis so praising S. Augustine as I haue set down then the Rhemists most shamelesly denying our interpretation lastly S. Augustine charged by theÌ„ with vsing a violent interpretation in the holie scripture and that in that interpretatioÌ„ he is ours Bellarmine himselfe haÌ„dling that question giueth ouer S. Augustine Bella. de effec sacram l. 2. c. 17. fere fine plainly by name saith he wil preferre Chrisostome before him in that Where is Torrensis now who said that S. Augustines iudgment is the iudgment of the whole Church that his witnesse is without exception Doth not this plainly shew that they will allow of nothinge to further then it shal make for theÌ„ Doe not they shew that they haue no rule but the Leaden Leshian as Torrensis calleth it In his discouerie of our translations c. 19. Doth not Gregory Martin chide the Protestants in general for following S. Augustine in reading a text of Scripture as he doth and saith they followe him against all antiquitie Why if Torrensis say true he is as good as al antiquity For his testimonie is the testimony of al antiquity De eccles hier l. 3. c. 4. fol. 153 c. 5. fol. 163 D. Augustinus varius incoÌ„stance in scriptutarum expositione Mat. 16. Doctrin princip l. 6. c. 3. Vt ante fo 82. 83. Allen. vt ante l. 2. c. 5. fol. 517 Mel. Can. vt ant l. 12. c. 12. fol. 411. The prophesy of Melchy c. 1. 11. for the calling of the geÌ„tiles and what manner of sacrifice they should offer Albertus Pighius an other great but late procter for the Church of Rome imputeth as much infamy to S. Augustine as euer Torrensis did vertue as much in constancie and perplexitie in change of doctrine as euer the other did constancie Augustine saith he was constant in nothinge but what did please him now did anone displease him And this is because S. Augustine is against them in expounding Christ to be the rocke vpon which the Church is builte and not vpon Peters person as Pighius and the Papists would haue him say Mary D. Stapleton censureth that verie fault in S. Augustine somwhat modestly caling it lapsus humanus an ouersight proceeding of ignorance Yea Torrensis himselfe doth gnaw at S. Augustine for so interpreting that place of Christ not of Peter although hee will not much defile that neast which he tooke such paines to beautifie D. Allen Melchior Canus doth both confesse S. Augustine to be ours in an high point of difference betweene them and vs and namely in expouÌ„ding the words of the Prophet Malachy From the rising of the sunne to the going downe of the same my name is greate amonge the Gentiles and in euerie place incense shal be offered vnto my name and a pure offering for my name is great amonge the heathen saith the Lord of the sacrifice of praise and thankes giuinge as wee doe therfore not of the sacrifice of the Masse as they doe And thus doth S. Augustine by their owne confession stande with vs against them in the most principall differences beâ—eene vs and them Now I doubt not the later Masters wil â—…ther condemne the Iesuits fraud for commending him whom they doe not loue rather then at that composition giue ouer the questions which he holdeth with vs wholy into our hands But though they doe abate their Iesuits credit we wil yet hold the questions in despite of their cunnings to wrest the veritie of them from vs. But leauing them mired in these I wil proceed to other things to see if they be there any clenlier Of generall councells There is a great question betweene them and vs whether generall counsels gathered together for the benefit of the Church to appease questions that arise therin touching matters not only of life but of doctrine and faith also may nor can erre They affirme that touching matters of fact ceremonies or things belonging to discipline or manners that such a councell may erre in such things but not in
false doctrine ether of Faith or manners coulde ever allight because Christ said to Peter I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not c. Let the heretiks therfore knowe that the more more greiuous sinnes they produce against the bishops our faith saith he doth staÌ„d the stronger Thus farre Saunders Where any man may playnly see that if that curse denounced by the Lord in the Prophet Esay woe vnto them that speake good of evill evill of good which put darknesse for light light for darknesse doe appertaine or was ever directed against any it will fall on them who build their faith one such a foundation Againe where he saith Omnis homo mendax etiam Romanus pontifex every man is a liar yea the Pope also his old fellow Alphonsus a Castro a strong maintainer of the catholike faith as Genebrard calleth him could write against heretikes such as Luther was and yet say boldly Omnis homo errare potest in fide otiam si Papa sit Every man may erre in the faith yea though he be Pope For it is certaine saith hee Pope Liberius was an Arrian heretike and Pope Anastasius favoured the NestoriaÌ„s of this whosoever hath read the histories doth not doubt wheras some doe affirme that hee which erreth in the faith obstinatly is not then Pope by that meanes the Pope caÌ„not be an heretike est in re seria verbis velle iocari it is to trifle with words in a serious matter for according to that reason a man may impudently affirme that no faithful man may erre in the faith for when he is an heretike he then ceaseth to be a faithfull man Nether doe wee doubt saith he whether One man may bee a Pope and an heretike both to gether but this wee seeke whether a man who otherwise is subiect to erre his pontificiall dignity doe free him The pontifical dignity caÌ„not priviledg him who is otheâ—wise subiect to erre I doe not beleeue that there is any so shamelesse a flatterer of the Pope that he will say he caÌ„not erre or be deceiued in the interpretation of the scripture for seeing it is certaine that many of them haue bin so vnlearned that they haue not vnderstood their Grammer how is it then that they should interpret the holy scriptures Thus far hath Alphonsus gone if not too farre To conclude this inference against Saunders it must not be forgotten that he hath described and confessed the Pope of Rome who with him is Christs vicar to be such an one indued with such qualities as no honest religious vertuous holy faithfull or good man or any child of God or member of Christ was ever said to bee furnished with S. Paule to the Rom. c. 16. 17. S. Paul gaue to the RomaÌ„s other churches these lessons touching the holynes of their liues Now I beseech you bretheren marke them diligently which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which he hath learned avoid them For they that are such serue not the Lord Iesus Christ but their owne bellies with faire speech and flattering deceaue the harts of the simple Walke wisely towards them that are without and redeeme the time Let your speech be gracious alwaise and powdred with salt that you may knowe how to answere everie man Colloss 4.5.6 Cap. 3.15 Let the peace of God rule in your harts to the which yee are called in one and be yee gracious Abstaine from all apparance of evill And of himselfe who was a teacher he saith Wee command you bretheren in the name of the Lord Iesus Christ 2. Thess 3.6 that yee withdraw your selues from every brother that walketh inordinatly and not after the instruction which hee receaued of vs for yee your selues knowe how yee ought to follow vs for we behaued not our selues inordinatly amongst you And to the Hebrewes he writeth thus Cap. 13.17.18 Obey them that haue the oversight of you and submit your selues for they watch for your soules as they that must giue accompts that they may doe it with ioy and not with greife for that is vnprofitable for you pray for vs for wee are assured that wee haue a good conscience in all things desiring to like honestly Hooker eccl pol. l. 5. para 1. NulluÌ„ ego coÌ„silium melius arbitror quaÌ„ si exemplo tuo fratrem docere studeas quâ— oporteat quae non oporteat fieri prouocans cum ad meliora coÌ„sulens ci non verbo neque lingua sed opere veritate Bern. de adu domini serm 3.1 Peter 2.6.8 Esay 28.16 8.14 Now since it is no particular conceipt but a matter of sound consequeÌ„ce that all duties are by so much the better performed by how much the men are more religious from whose abilities the same proceed Godlinesse being the cheifest top and well-spring of al true vertues even as God is of all good things howe is it possible that these Popes and church of Rome should hold and keepe Christs regency here on earth to coÌ„mand and appoint lawes and statutes to all Christians and Christian churches and be as it were a communalty free froÌ„ all error at least of doctrine claiming from a text of scripture which requireth not only a not fayling in faith but a streÌ„gthning of their brethren that shal slide when they themselues in the meane while shal be a company faithlesse irreligious and vniust yea a lothsome distressed number divorced from al piety religion and godlines Is this the stone that S. Peter ment when he said recording the wordes of the Prophet Esay Behold I put in Sion a chiefe corner stone elect and precious he that beleeveth therein shal not be ashamed A stone to stumble at and rocke of offence even to them that stumble at the word beeing desobedient as Bellarmine implieth where he saith Bellar. in pref in lib. de Rom. pont fo 10. 11. quanquaÌ„ haec verbs in Christum praecipue convenire non ignoramus cadem tamen â—on inepte in Christi vicarium quadrare censemus although we are not ignorant that those wordes are principally meant of Christ About the yere 1058. In Fasc temp Benedict was Pope 9. moÌ„ths and after expulsed and throwen out Iohn 10. hee that entereth not by the dore is a theif a robber Gregory 7. Benno in vita eius If nothing bee in the Chalice but the blood of Christ how could poisoÌ„ be mingled with it Geneb Chro. l. 4. fol. 887. A schisme 29. yeeres For the full truth of the history of HeÌ„ry 4. Emperor Gregory 7. Pope reade the dialogues of my Lord Winton p. 3. f. 430. c. The counsells accused him of all those vices that Cardinall Benno did yet we do not thinke amisse wheÌ„ we say that they do belong also to Christs vicar the Pope A horrible blasphemy if ever there were any But I will leaue this and turne to their successioÌ„ againe Leo. 9.
man sought after pardoÌ„s for vpon that dependeth all the credit of Pardons No purgatory no pardons So may they both be left as having no ground in the word of God Here you haue an open and knowen confession of themselues that for these maine points of their religion Priuate masse halfe communion praiers to Saints Purgatorie and pardons that the holy scripture doth not speake in fauour of them Princip doctr 6. c. 7. 17. Noe successioÌ„ in the Apostle ship no nor antiquitie neither Touching the Popes office they are not yet resolued what to think of it First Stapleton telleth vs That the Pope succeedeth not S Peter in the Apostleship of the Apostleship there is noe succession by an absolute deniall Bellarmine saith succedit aliquo modo in Apostolatu De Rom. Pont l. 2. c. 31. fo 324 After a sort Rhem. Annot. Ephes 4. v. 11. â—s a verie continuall apostle shipp the Pope succeedeth after a sort in the Apostleship that is in the care of the whole world After a sort saith he The Rhemistes coÌ„clude the affirmatiue without any qualification That the Roome and dignitie of the Pope is a verie continuall Apostleship by an absolute concession So what they caÌ„not perfect at once they wil by degrees It is not saith Stapleton it is after a sort saith Bellarmine Alphonsâ— Ã castro l. 1. fol. 17.6 The sea Apostolike coÌ„meth after generall counsells nay it is indeed saie the Rhemists They stagger in more then this about his holines euen of what force strength his determinatioÌ„ is Sedes Apostolica The Apostolike sea beecause it representeth the whole Church as the head holdeth the first place after generall counsells in defining matters of faith saith Alphonsus And I take not saith hee the Apostolike sea for the Pope alone seeing hee maie erre in the faith as did Liberius Anastasius but by the sea Apostolike I vnderstand the whole Colledge of Cardinals and other learned and approued men De Rom. pont l. 4 c. 1. fol. 470 if they maie bee had to aid and assist the sentence which is to be giuen Bellarmine shutteth out counsell De concil author l. 2. c. 19. fol. 183. and Cardinalls and all maketh the sentence of generall counsells of noe force except there bee added to it the allowance of the Pope as the last vpshot Nay hee will not only make him aboue al counsels and the whole Church but he wil make him the whole Church too for where wee obiect by a cleare evidence drawen from a text of holie scripture that the Church is the last tribunall wherat al men must stand on earth Mat. 18.15 1. reproue him 2. take 1. or 2. 3. tel the Church beecause Christ said to Peter Tell the Church the occasion maie allight on the Pope aswel as on anie other to referre synners to the Church and therfore the Pope ought to acknowledge the Church to be greater then himselfe hee answereth that the Pope maie in some sort performe that order of reproofe First saith he the Pope ought to admonish him that offendeth priuatlie next if that serue not to cal witnesses lastly to tel it to the church that is to tell it to him selfe Tell it to the Church that is to himselfe The Pope is â—he Church De visib mon. l. 7. fol 394. as to the president and Church ouer whom hee is that is to saie to excommunicate him publiklie Did euer anie man heare such base shifts Bellarmine flieth the Church and retireth to the Pope Saunders on the other side beeing hard driuen for Honorius the Pope whoe being condemned for an hereticke was so taken and reputed refuseth him flieth to the Church for although saith hee Honorius had fallen into heresie Though Honorius fel into heresy yet the Church of Rome did not Saunders ibid fol. 362. 364. yet can it not bee said the Church of Rome did erre in the faith who did not onlie not decree anie such thinge but also did alwaies detest that heresie wherof Honorius was condemned The like and more he saieth in defence of Anastasius the 2 whome Gratian in the decrees doth note for an hereticke For hauing said that although Anastasius had consorted communicated with heretickes tamen ab omni haeresis crimine libera mansisset Romana Ecclesia yet had the RomaÌ„ church remained safe without all fault of heresie addeth The Church of Rome may for some smal time fale into heresie That although the Church of Rome did or shoulde haue for some smale time-fallen into heresie yet had God and so he did shew his wonderful prouidence towards that sea in respect that the Pope who caused the error was therfore stricken froÌ„ aboue least by the sea of Peter the Catholike church should be drawen into error noe man following the Pope therin because he was smitteÌ„ of God nor must we saith he respect what Bishops doe but what they lawfullie doe seeing Christ commanded his people to followe and obay those thinges which they who sit in the Chaire of Moses should command By this reason it will followe that the Pope sitteth not in the Chaire of Moses The Chuâ—ch of Rome can now saue the Popes credit And that is vnderstood to be lawfully don which is don after the ancient custome according to the mind of a counsel Seeing therfore the Church of Rome decreed noe such thinge vnder Anastasius verilie it is free everie waie from heresie If the Church of Rome can now saue the Popes credit that free and he faulty how is his determination the vpshot of al and aboue al How is he the church it selfe And how is nothing firme without his ratification as Bellarmine striveth to proue And which is most material how doth hee strengthen his bretheren if he may be an heretike they free So that in these conclusions Bellarmine neither standeth with Alphonsus Bellar. nether standeth with Alphâ—nsus nor Saunders nor with himselfe The sea of Rome subiect to a generall couÌ„sel Bell. de Rom. pontif l. 4. c. 4 fol. 486 nor with Saunders as hath bin shewed no nor with himselfe For Alphonsus subiected the sea of Rome the church of Rome consisting of the Pope Cleargy and other godly men there vnto a general couÌ„sel Bellarmine preferreth the Popes voice or decree aboue all yea maketh him the church yet other where he setteth for the Church not the Pope alone but the Pope and the people and that wheÌ„ the ancient fathers and the Popes do say the Church of Rome cannot erre that then they are to be vnderstood that in the Church of Rome there shal alwaies be a Catholicke bishop teaching Catholicke people hearing or iudging in concluding both vnder the name of the Church of Rome and so hath he slaine himselfe with his owne sword Bellarmines good wil to the Pope Furthermore Bellarmine is so carefull for the Pope that though he hold opinion touching a
Plato amicus Aristoteles magis amica veritas Let Plato bee your freind Let Aristotle bee your freind but the truth let it be more your freind for he that betraieth the truth betraieth his owne soule I craue no more of you but that you examine both doctrines before you yeeld your free assent to either if you haue me anie way in suspision ether for my iudgment in concluding against them that I peruert their meaning or that I trecherously abuse their texts I wil if you wil take the paines to shew you every quotation make your selfe iudge in both Tub. I thanke you for your free open offer It were hard to suspect him who yeeldeth such libertie I wil at my further leasure repaire vnto you for such of them as I shall thinke I may most directly charge them with al. Rom. You cānot chuse amisse chuse where you wil they be all true and not one of them but maketh against them in one point or other Al bewraying the weaknes of that cause which that it might be quite ouerthrowen lacketh but to be throughly sifted by wise and iudicious men such as woulde but try and examine it must not bee those who thinke it a tempting of God to read or heare any thinge that shal make against them And as I haue giuē you testimonie of their dealing in this point of the sacrament so if you wil but harken to that more which I shall deliuer I will shew you that in other things as in that they deale absurdly confusedly weakly doe euen goe from their owne grounds although like thēselues in all yet not like such as they would make the world beleeue they are And will verie clearlie plainly proue vnto you without sending you to their quotations when they cannot be found as they doe in most they doe that it is only true against them which they plead against vs that there are with them Iesuita Torrēsis in epistol dedicator in conf August no principles but those of Protagoras which was that that should be true which euery one would allow and that there is no rule amongst thē but the leaden Lesbian rule which will turne euerie way And because I wil giue you as little breath as I can I will begin with the Iesuite himselfe first who so chargeth vs and ether proue his ground false and his tongue too too lauish or els◠his freinds verie vnfreindly towards him who wil not let his word stand but disanull it and make it of no force In the preface of that worke of his which hee hath intituled S. Augustines confessiōs as though al that he had there laid down were indeed S. Augustines both for the bookes named Iesuit vt ante Praises giuen to S. Augustine by the Iesuite and the questions handled hee hath wonderfully praised that ancient father as indeed hee did deserue verie much in the Church of God euen so much that to drawe it into a breese he saith whatsoeuer S. Augustine doth deliuer was not the doctrine or teaching of any one prouince or kingdōe alone but the vniuersall consent and approbation of the whole catholike Church and which did not continue allowed for the space of three or foure hūdred yeares but hath bin receiued stood firme in the world these thousand yeares Hee was saith he a sincere and true witnesse of the Catholike faith Omni exceptione maiorem qui non de sua tantum sed de communi antiquorū patrum Apostolicae ecclesiae constanti atque stabili consessione nos bona fide reddat certiores beyond al exception one that did not only deliuer what was his owne iudgment in anie thinge But what was his was also the common consent of the ancient fathers Apostolike Church and who was free from parciallitie touching either part in whatsoeuer he wrot The Church had a Pastor and Bishop of him in the dexteritie of whose wit posteritie did wonder at the soundnes of his doctrine at his knowledge in the holy scripture at his subtiltie in disputing at his constancie in maintaining at his wisdome in iudging at his holinesse in liuinge at his singular faith industrie in accomplishing In the end he admonisheth his reader to repaire to S. Augustines bookes as to the fountaine and draw from him the confession of the true faith and Catholike Doctrine Be it vnto Torrensis al those that so loue S. Augustine as he hath said I wil say nothing now to the cōtrary More you see cānot be said of the mā But what if these very men who so much praise him now in a generallitie in a good mood doe when they are vrged with his opinion in a particular point of doctrine with the same breath blow hot and cold are these men not like our common slanderers in these daies that hold no man for honest any longer then he pleaseth them when indeed the more a man doth please them the more dishonest he is which consisteth only in following their brutish and beastly affections no more sauouring of Christianitie thē their stables and dogge kennels doe of Ciuet or perfume An instance against the Iesuite I will giue presētly S. Paul writing vnto the Corinthians speaking of the Iews in the time of the law saith they did eate the sāe spirituall meate 1. Cor. 10.1.2.3 vers The same spiritual meat and did drinke of the same spiritual drinke for they dranke of the spirituall rocke that followed them and the rocke was Christ Now the question is whether S. Paule meant they dranke of it amongst themselues or that they and wee had one in common betweene vs The Iewish sacraments and ours in substance al one which is Christ We say that the Iewish sacramēts were in effect substance all one with ours and that the spiritual meat of theirs was Christ the Messias to be crucified the outward signes differ they had Manna and we the bread of the Eucharist which is plainly S. Paules drift in that place not to speak of what they had amōge themselues but only that they we had one Christ in diuers different signes The Rhemists offended at this Annot. 1. cor 10. verse 3. yet knowing not how to amend themselues but by railing for quotations should not haue wanted if they could haue told where to haue founde them doe saie that it is an impudent forgery of the Calvinists to write vpon that place that the Iewes receaued no lesse the truth and substance of Christ and his benefits in their figures The Iewes among themselues did all eate of one spiritual meat or sacraments then we doe in ours and that they and we eate and drinke of the selfe same meate and drinke the Apostles saying only that they amonge themselues did all feed of one bread drinke of one rocke This say they turning the Apostles wordes and meaning to a cleane contrarie sense But how shal it be knowen besides
of the celebrating of that one councel Sanders againe in an other place 5. Sand. declaue Dauid I. 4. sol 81. The cosent of the bishop of Rome preambulateth from the matter before hee come to it thus Although the consent of the bishop of Rome alwaies had obtained did confirme the summoning of a general couÌ„sell yet that in a great matter no error should creep in it was the order that the Pope should send his letters to the Emperour touching that matter As who shuld say the Pope commanded the Emperour to summon counsells and then the Emperour having received those letters did by his own letters assemble the bishops wherevpon the bishops assembled at Constantinople do write vnto Damasus in these words you did send for vs as for meÌ„bers of your owne body by the letters of the most holy Emperour to come vnto the counsel which is gathered togither at Rome by the wil pleasure of God And a little after By the commandement of letters from your holinesse sent the last yere vnto the Emperor Theodosius after the councel held at Aquila wee prepared our selues only for our iourney to Constantinople It therefore appeareth saith Sanders from this testimony That there were two Councels holden at once one at Rome the other at Constantinople and to both of them the Pope sent for those bishops by the letters of the Emperour Thus much from Sanders in that place of that matter 6. Staplet ret oâ— untruths art 4. fol. 139. D. Stapleton an other of that side maintaining the Popes soveraignety is no more abashed to abuse the history than those other haue done in the places going before For saith hee Those bishops of Constantinople doe write-vnto Damasus the Pope and shewing a cause of there not coÌ„ming to Rome do further say vnto him That they had assembled themselues but lately at Constantinople by the late letter of your honor sent after the councell holden in Aquilicato the most Godly Emperour Theodosius Letters from your honor which was the reason why they could not come to Rome Now touching this present matter saith he the bishops here doe witnesse that to that counsel of Rome the Pope called them by the letters of the Emperour not as a warrant they haue no such word but rather as a meane For they witnes he calleth theÌ„ as his proper members Bellar. thrise Saund. twise already Staplet once 7. 8 and. de vifib monar l. 7. fol. 312. num 145. 146. The whole masse of falsehood is diseouered The Easterne bishops write to all the bishops of the West and so the letters go in the plurall number This it the sixt canvasse they haue had touching this place of Theodoret The seauenth set downe by Sanders in a thirde place of his booke will quite overthrow both himselfe and them being inlighted a little by the history which they al haue most shamefully abused For in this third place of his hee hath bewraied their shameful dealing There he confesseth that the Bishops of the East did write to other bishops of the West and namely to Ambrose aswel as to Damasus not to him alone as hitherto they al made vs beleeue they did and there he confesseth more over that the Easterne bishops receiued a letter from the Westerne gathered togither at Rome in which letter they were praied to come thither and that in their answere back they declare that all the westerne bishoppes sent for them by letters from the most holie Emperour But saith he further it appeareth from this place that the first beginning of a general counsel is the bishop of Rome but the meanes which the Pope vseth in that matter is to call them by the Emperours letters This is all their report that I finde of this matter I would now but aske them this questioÌ„ whether they tell vs thus much because they beleeue it or beleeue is because they tell it vs If they tell it vs as beleeuing it themselues we can say no otherwise of them than of him that did accustome to tel lies so fast to others that in the end he tooke them for truthes himselfe if they beleeue it because they tell it vs our incredulity in this case shal do them good in aduising theÌ„ not to beleeue that wee will any more take the reporte of any such matter vpon their words so that if our deniall wil profit them I assure theÌ„ I will not credit them in any thing without due evidence of the iustnesse of it Ter. in Eunuc act 2. scen 1. Nihil aliud quam Philumenam volo And therefore I giue them the councel in the Poet quoniam id fieri quod voluâ—t non potest velint id quod possit since they caÌ„not haue what they would that they woulde take what they may But they answere they would haue nothing but the Bishop of Romes supremacy I say again as the Poet saith in that place it were much better for theÌ„ to leaue that fansie rather than by this palpable fraud to go about to perswade it Al their inferences from that text of Theodoret are false and merely suggested either of the Popes power in calling that counsell of Constantinople or of their writing to Damasus oulie to Damasus or that they called him their head or that they confessed themselues his proper members as they haue abused the history The writing which the bishops of the East sent to them of the West is called The true report out of Theodorete eccles l. 5. c. â— Libellus Sinodicus à Concilio Constantinopolitano ad Episcopas missus The Councel of Constantinoples declaration sent vnto the Bishops The superscription is Dominis honoratissimis cum primis reverendis fratribus ac collegis Damaso Ambrosio Brittoni valeriano Acholio Avemio Basilio et cateris sanct is Episcopis To the most renowned Reverend bretheren fellowes and most especial reverend brethren and fellows Damasus Ambrose Briton Valerian Acholius Avemius Basill and the rest of the holy bishops gathered togither in the famous citty of Rome The holy councell of Catholike bishops gathered togither in the famous citty of Constantinople send health in our Lord. Num quid nam hic quod nolis Ter in Eunuc act 2. scen 2. vides Bellarmine Is there any thing here ô Bellarmine that thou wouldest not see Yes neither me nor that which I haue brought Where do they write to Damasus Where do they acknowledge him the head they the members Where be the letters sens froÌ„ his honor All this like religious and loving fathers to the Church of God they confesse each to other because they consented in one catholike doctrine were of one Catholike church though divided by East and West whose head is Christ as S. Paule saith Ephes 4.5 One Lord one faith one baptisme But if you wil speake of what they were in respect of themselues and their authoritie over each other SozoÌ„ l. 6. c.
concluding mattâ—…s of doctrine On the contrary side wee hold in few wordes that they may erre in all hauing no more assurance from aboue for the one then for the other For confirmation of which our position we alledge S. Augustine who speaking both of the priuate writings of Bishops and of councells held in particular regions and of generall counsells gathered of the Christian world saith Etipa concilia quae per singulas regiones vel prouincias fiunt ToÌ„ 6. de bapt con Donat. l. â— c. 3. plenariorum conciliorum authoritati quae fiunt vx vniuerso orbe christiano sine vllis ambagibus cederâ— And eueÌ„ those counsells which are held in euerie region or prouince without al doubt must giue place to generall couÌ„sells which are gathered of all the christian world and that euen the generall counsells themselues are often corrected the former by the later when by any triall of things that is opened which was shutt vp and that is knowen which was hid without any swelling of sacrilegious pride without any stiffe necke of arrogancy without any contention of malitious enuy with holy humilitie with catholike peace with Christian charitie Here wee haue a plaine place that only the holy scripture cannot erre that all other writers may erre that all prouinciall counsell may erre and last of al generall councells themselues may be corrected the former by the later therfore without question they may erre They agree with vs in this text of S. Augustine but the meaning of the words not withstanding they be very plaine they doe deny framing the text to as many fashions as possible they may They seeme by their answers vtterly vnacquainted with the occasion of S. Augustines discourse in that place as though it were a very hard thinge ether to see the originall 〈◊〉 hauing seene it to iudge of it But the multiplicitie and crokednesse of their shifts doth plainly shew that the authoritie maketh against them and for vs. Andradius the defender of the Tridentine counsell Andr. defeal conc Trid. l. 1. fol. 51. 53. They may be explaned or vnfolded is the first shift saith that S. Augustine seemeth to him to say no more but that later counsells maie with clearnesse vnfold those things which the former had overslipped And that S. Augustine insinuateth so much where hee saith when by triall of things that is opened whâ—…h was shut vp and is knowne which was hidden This glosse of Andradius will soone eate out the bowels of the text S. Augustine saith a generall councell may be amended therfore corrected which is more then to be explaned or vnfolded And the opposition that S. Augustine makes between the holy scriptures which is not to erre all other authorities must needs stand firme that must be inferred vpon generall couÌ„cels which cannot 〈◊〉 spoken of the scriptures but the scriptures may be said to be vnfolded explaned or enlightened but not corrected therefore S. Augustine meaneth more of generall councels than so Advers haer l. c. 8. fol. 17. a. leaveth out the principall member eveÌ„ plainly that they may erre Alphonsus a Castro alleadgeth this of Augustine by the halfe For where S. Augustine saith and even generall couâ—cels are often corrected the former by the later he breaketh it of and saith nothing of it alleadgeth the former part to proue that provinciall councels may erre as though S. Augustine had gone no farther and not spoken of generall also 3. Locor Theol. l. 5. fol. 185. b. ad 10. Non videtur loqui de emeÌ„datione fidei sed legum Melchior Canus comming to answere this place of Austine deviseth a new shift That S. Augustine there speaketh not of any amendment in a matter of Faith but of Lawes which are to bee referred to things either done already or to be done A strange kinde of harmony these men make in opening one poore place in this ancient father But they do herein as theeues indicted for robbery they wil confesse nothing because they know they are guilty but must haue all things proued against theÌ„ He speaketh plainely of the question of Rebaptization as by and by I wil declare when I come to Bellarmine The Rhemists glauÌ„ce at this text of Austine in their notes on the new testament 4. Annot. in 15. Acts. v. 13. of accidentall changable things Tull. offic l 3. and do therein exceedingly giue the world to vnderstand that when they compiled that worke they aimed only to vphold folsehood and not to open anie truth But as Tully said of falshood in oaths Fraus distringit non dissoluit periurium Deceipt bindeth but doth not discharge the oath so let them huddle shuffle cloake hide glose and doe what they wil the text of Augustine is open for all men and there may they most be discouered He speaketh say they of circumstances accident all which require alteration and not of essentiall points of doctrine when he saith the former generall or plenary counsells may be amended by the later Quasi matrimonio habet dotatam rempublicam Cicero Octauio 5. Bellar. de con author l. 2. c. 7. fol. 119. Why cannot Bellar. mine tell wherof S. Aug. speaketh quasi matrimonio habent dotatum Augustinum As though S. Augustine were giueÌ„ to them in marriage and all men else shut from him and so they vse him The Iesuite Bellarmine according to the manner of his aunswering commeth in with two or three fortès peraduenture he speaketh of this peraduenture he speaketh of that and yet neuer hitteth the right peradventure To the authoritie I answere first saith he Perhaps S. Augustine speaketh of vnlawfull councells which are amended by others after that are lawfull as it hapned to the 2 Ephesine counsel 6. De questionibus facti non iuris which was amended in the Chalcedon Secondly it he spake of lawfull counsels then saith hee hee speaketh of matters of fact and not of right in such kind of questions it is out of doubt that a couÌ„sel maie erre for the principal questioÌ„ of the Catholike with the Donatists was about one Caecilianus whether hee had deliuered the scriptures into the handes of the heretikes or not And it may bee aunswered by a thirde waie saith he if our aduersaries contend That S. Augustine speaketh generally of al questions when he saith That former councells may be amended by later that then he speaketh of precepts of maners and not of questions of Faith for precepts are changed according to times places persons and those changings are called amendings not that the thinge was before ill but that it began to bee ill the circumstances being changed And both these answeres are confirmed by the words of Augustine when he saith that then Counsells are amended when by some experience that is opened which was hid questions of matters of fact or of maners not al questisoÌ„ of right are opened by experiment Thus far Bellarmine
matter of faith as other men do if in examination it happen to be an error yet shal it be none in the Pope but must be one in al men else For trial of this let any man read the 1. 2. chapt de sanct beat where he proueth it an error vpon whom soeuer shall thinke that the soules of the blessed doe not see God vntill the last day Bellar. de Sanctor beatit l. 1 c. 1. 2 This error is put vpon Iohn 22. Bellarmine confesseth as much Ioannem hunc reverâ sensisse animas non visuras Deum nisi post resurrectionem That Iohn 22. did verily beleeue Bell. de Rom. pont l. 4. c. 14. fol 549. c. 12. fol. 531. he saueth Pope Nicholas by the like that the soules see not God vntil the last day But this he thought saith he when he might so thinke without danger of heresie nulla enim adhuc praecesserat Ecclesiae definitio for there had no determinatioÌ„ of the church gone before Why The determinatioÌ„ of himselfe is the determination of the church aswel as you said before his telling of a thing to himselfe was the telling of it to the church And why excuseth he the Pope by the not determination of the Church When hee telleth vs himselfe De conc auth l. 2. c. 2 5. That neither generall counsels nor particular which otherwise are subiect to erre can erre if the Pope confirme them And yet see the man be telleth vs De Rom. pont l. 4. c. 14 f. 551 that Iohn need not to reuoke the error cum in errorem nullum incidisset for he fel into no error If hee fel into no error neither did they fal into any error on whoÌ„ Bellarmine laieth the same error nor must he cal it an error to say The soules of the righteous see not God vntil the last day seeing he himselfe saith that Iohn so held and yet held no error FroÌ„ absurd and grosse coÌ„clusions they fal to flat blasphemies Rom. 6.23 Rhem annot on that Text. Blasphemies ContradictioÌ„s The reward of sin is death but everlasting life is the gift of God saith S. Paul the Rhemists say in their annotations that The sequele of the speech required that as he said deathor damnation is the stipend of sin so life everlasting is the stipend of iustice so it is What indignity is this to the holy Ghost to crosse him so manifestly S. Paule maketh opposition betweene eternal life eternal death touching the cause of either The proper working cause of death is sin so saith the Apostie The reward wages or stipend of sin is death but everlasting life is what the stipende of good workes as the Rhemists say no but the free gift of God The Apostle might as easilie haue said so as they if it had bin so Annot 2. Cor. 5. vers 10. Wil Reinolds cont Whiâ—…k fol. 105â— Why did S. Paule invert and turne the sentence if as the one had deserued hel so the other had deserued heaven but only to exclude what the Rhemists bring in They iterate this in an other place where they say Heaven is as well the reward of good works as hell is the stipend of ill workes This is also seconded by one from Rhemes who saith that the Apostle Saint Paule laieth in indifferent ballance good works and euil maketh the one the cause of heauen as the other is the cause of hel But if it be so that good works be the cause purchase merit of eternall life as these men tell vs as trulie as euill works are the purchase and merit of hel what saie they to their owne note Rhem. Annot. Rom c 9. v. 11. 16. vpon another text where they tel vs that by the example of the two two twinns Iacoh Esaw it is euident that nether nations nor particular persons bee elected eternallie or called temporallie or preferred to Gods fauour before other by their owne merits but of theÌ„ two vvhere iustlie hee might haue reprobated both hee saued of mercie one What is this as S Paul said before eternal life is the gift of God excluding merits Yet they stand not alwaie to this last For they saie againe Man hath free will to make himselfe a vessell of saluation or damnation Rhem. Annot 2. Tim. 2. v. 21. though saluation be attributed to gods mercy principally the other to his iust iudgment Hâ—w hath man free wil to make himselfe a vessel of saluation or damnation wheÌ„ saluation is principallie of Gods mercie and the other of his iudgment Whie explaine they not that darke speech that wee maie vnderstand it Interpres eget interprete They neede more Interpreters then the text They told vs before that Gods meere mercie is seene in the elect and iustice in the reprobat And that they that are saued Annot. Rhem. Rom 9. v. 6.11 14. 16. must hold of gods eternal purpose mercy and election And this election and mercy dependeth on his owne purpose will determination that all are worthie of damnation before they bee first called to mercie Make good this doctrine which they haue last set downe and agreed vpon the former will proue blasphemous and deregatorie to the mâ—iestie of God That good workes are the cause of beauen as evill are the cause of hell Or that man hath free will to make himself a vessell of saluation or damnation I doubt not if the Rhemists be followed but that a man might take vp moe contradictions then those before which they haue heaped amongst their notes in that testament 2. Tim 2.25 God giueth repentance Where S. Paul writing to Tymothy willeth him to instruct with meeknesse those that resist or vvithstand the truth prouing if at anie time God will giue them repentance that they maie acknowledge the truth they note That conversion from sin and heresie is the gift of god and of his special grace Annot. vppon that place in the margent pag. 589. I might aske them first how this agreeth with their owne note one the other side of their owne leafe so oft mentioned before Man hath free wil to make him selfe a vessel of saluation or damnation But I wil leaue that now and demand of them howe it agreeth with this The grace of god woorketh not in man against his will nor forceth anie thing without his acceptation and consent Annot. 2. cor 6. v. 1. Annot. Ioh. 6. v. 44. Annot Luc. 14. v. 23. Conuersion from sin heresie is the gift of God For whosoeuer are lead by the spirit of God Rhem. Rom. 8. v 14. in marg Hee meaneth not that the children of god be violently compelled against their wills but that they bee sweetly dâ—awn moued or induced to doe good ex Aug. Ench c. 64. de verbis domin Serm. 43. c 7 deverb Apost ser 13. c. 11 1â— Acts â— and therfore it lieth in a mans will to