preheminence among them receiueth vs not Therefore if I come I will declare his deeds railing at vs with malitions words and not content therewith neither he himselfe receiueth not the brethren and them that would he forbiddeth casteth them out of the church ver 9. 10. Dooth S. Iohn tell the Christians that this tyrannous oppression by Diotrephes did make them to be no longer Christes Church which remained vnder him Did he will them to seperate themselues and not to obey him any longer in any thing Our Sauiour saith the time will come that they shall excommunicate yée Iohn 16. ver 2. Antichrist himselfe sitting in the Temple of God seduced the reprobate but could not destroy the Church which yet he did gréeuously oppresse and kéepe in some bondage Whereby it appeareth that Solomon speaketh of that which should fall out often and be euen as it were the lot of the Church to be iniuried oppressed and kept in some outward bondage euen by those at whose hands she should finde most comfort holding the places of Pastors and Gouernours as we haue séene in the Church of Israell before our Sauiour came at the time he liued and also in the Church vnder the Gospell You bring in diuerse scriptures which prooue as you imagine that an outward oppression of the Church in externall gouernment dooth make an vtter deuorse betwixt her and Christ but he that considereth those things which I haue before noted and the sundry oppressions of the Church by her Pastors shall easily perceiue that Anabaptisticall fréedome which yée glory of For howsoeuer the Church with her Children are frée with God and receiue no yoake vpon their faith and conscience yet in outward things they may be oppressed You could abide well enough that phrase of spéech oppressed but to say the Church of Christ may be in anye bondage yée terme a blasphemous error Because bondage yée say is the badge of Antichrist the marke of the Beast c. Take héede of the saying that is written 2. Pet. 2. ver 19. That the seducers promise libertie and are themselues the bend seruants of corruption For you imagine and glorye of such a full and perfect libertie as that yée account it a blasphemous error to say the Church may be oppressed with outward bondage It is strange that there should be such a bolde spirite in rotten flesh as flatly to contrary the spirit of God For the Lord sayd to Abraham Thy seede shall bee in bondage and they shall oppresse them But the nation whom they shall serue will I Iudge Genes 15. He saith he brought them out of the house of bondage or of bond men Exodus 20. Will ye affirme that the Church was not oppressed with outward bondage in Egypt will ye deny that they were led captiue and held in outward bondage in Babilon cannot this word bondage which the holy Ghost vseth be allowed of yée must bondage of necessity be the badge and marke of Antichrist when the Lord threatneth by his Prophets that his people should go into captiuity and that there should be a yoake of bondage layd vpon them dooth he giue them ouer to weare the badge of Antichrist or so to be seruants vnto men that they could not also be his seruants Indéed the Anabaptists do holde that wee cannot be seruants vnto men in any outward bondage yet be the seruants of Christ grounding their heresie vpō the places which you alledge If all maner of bondage be the marke of the beast and the badge of Antichrist and a loosing of Christian liberty as you and the Anabaptists would haue it then how could S. Paul say Art thou a bond man care not thou art the Lords free man 1. Cor. 7 Let no man suppose that I charge ye ouer hardly with this grosse point of Anabaptistrie because our question is about Church gouernment and I speake of ciuill bondage for ye speake generally of outward bondage and denie that it can be the lot of the Church or of any member therof The worde bondage though it be outward cannot in anye sense be allowed by you to agrée with your fréedom Now for the places in the song My mothers sonnes were angrye with me they set me to keepe the Vines mine owne Vine I haue not kept In this place the Church willeth first y t they should not looke scornefully vpon her because she is somwhat blacke Then she sheweth that it is not her natiue colour but she is sunne burnt the sunne saith she hath looked vpon me There followeth the occasion that her mothers sonnes were angrye with her set her to kéepe the Vines Who these be whome she calleth her mothers sonnes is the greatest difficultie to finde Tremellius whose interpretation in that point ye follow doth expound it of originall sinne the lusts which she hath frō the wombe other take it more fitly of false brethrē which boast thēselues to be true worshipers children of the church which she calleth her mothers sonnes because they descended frō the ancient mother church were the degenerate children of holy forefathers for I take it somwhat hard to cal sins or concupiscences her mothers sons But take it whether way ye wil either of original sin concupiscences or of degenerate children among whom there were many euen of the Pastors gouernors yet ye cannot auoid but y t there is a violence an oppression some bondage for she saith they set her to kéep the vineyards Howsoeuer you would slily insinuate that it were but negligence that when she repenteth she is so cléered that she is in no bondage vnto sinne at all But when ye haue cauilled what ye can it standeth cléere by the scriptures y t the Church in her perfectest repentance euen with all her children is held in some spirituall bondage vnto sin but yet she is not obstinat I grant for she hateth the euil she doth laboureth against it I doe not gather from this that the Church either did or may kéepe Antichrists Vine as you demaund what a bolde falsifiyng of the place this is But I saye what a bolde impudencie is this in you so to falsifie my wordes For I alledge it to prooue that the Church is subiect to bee oppressed bable so much of Antichrist and his yoake Then let hym prooue that euery error abuse and great fault in discipline doth ouerturne it and make it become Antichristian yea Antichrists yoake so farre as to make it no Church which is subiect to such oppression It is most cléere that a Church may erre in sundrie poynts of Doctrine and not be Antichristian but the true Spouse of Christ And an error in Doctrine if it be foule doth approch néerer towards the ouerthrowe of faith then an error or an abuse in externall gouernment Moreouer if the execution of discipline by Byshops be the yoake of Antichrist and if all the Churches which doo stande vnder the same doo worship the Beast
generally stande in England and come after vnto those former articles which conteine your association wherein ye conioyne your selues and enter into couenant with God as ye say to set vp all the ordinances of Christ for I take this to bee the fittest order Your syxt article which now must be first being expressed in these words And now that our forsaking and vtter abandoning these disordered assemblies as they generally stand in England may not seeme strange or offensiue to anye man that will iudge or be iudged by the word of God we alledge and affirme them heinouslie faultie and wilfullie obstinate in these foure principall transgressions To this I answered That Elias did sée outward idolatrie practised and saw none which did mislike and therefore complained of all It was an error but whereas Gods word is imbraced and multitudes abhorre Idolatrie and labour with sorrowfull teares to bee purged from their sinnes it is an intollerable pride and presumption of men to set themselues in Gods iudgement seat and to condemne all of wilfull obstinacie Let it be shewed where euer any led by Gods spirit haue dealt in this sort and especially in charging them most falslie as shall appeare The Brownists HEre you verye vehemently charge vs with vntollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgment seate to be voide of Gods spirite to charge and condemne you most falsely as you say shall appeare How iustly you charge vs with these crimes or discharge your selfe and your assemblies of these present transgessions vpon the scanne of your answeres shall appeare c. G. G. All such as take vpon them to iudge and condemne whole assemblies that professe the Gospell and that with slanderous accusations as you do may right well be charged with intollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgement seate séeing the Scriptures do cleerely warrant it For he that iudgeth one man to be no true Christian which holdeth the place of a brother and laboureth to please God professing the faith soundly in all fundamentall points either for some errors in iudgement or frailties committed in life proudlye aduanceth himselfe into Gods office who alone searcheth the heart and trieth the raines of the children of men What shall we say then of those which condemne whole multitudes amongst whom there be many vnspotted with grose errors and offenses But the ground of your dooing is from hence that such as commit principall transgressions and be wilfullye obstinate in the same the word of God dooth condemne them And then yée say that the assemblies in England be heinously faulty and wilfully obstinate in foure principall transgressions Ye boldly alledge and affirme but ye make proofe neither of the transgressions nor of the wilfull obstinacie Touching the transgressions what meane ye by principall If yée vnderstand great faults and grosse errors and holde withall that there is no faith nor regeneration among those which erre grosely commit great faults ye maintaine heresie which is conuinced by infinit places and examples of the Scriptures The best that euer were did know but in part 1. Cor. 13. The godliest were regenerate but in part Rom. 7. Of the strongest it was said who can tell his errors Psal 19. and in manye things we sinne all Iam. 3. If Noah Abraham Lot Dauid Solomon Samson and other holy men greatly replenished with the holy Ghost and with faithe did sometime fall into great sinnes howe many will be the errors the diuisions the frailties and offenses among the multitude in the church where with the stronger and such as haue the greater knowledge and godlinesse there are heaped vp together multitudes of weake and such as be carnall and but babes in Christ besides hipocrites and countersait brethren If by principall transgressions ye meane onely such as be fundamentall then ye doo most falsely accuse the Church of England which holdeth not any heresie or blasphemie against any one ground or principle of the holy Christian faith Yée must then either mainteine this heresie which is that where the true faith is there can breake foorth no great faults errors and abuses or this absurd manner of spéech which afterward yée vse that all errors and deformities in religion be heresies blasphemies and abhominations or els confesse that with intollerable pride presumption and intrusion into Gods iudgement seate yée haue taken vpon yée to iudge and condemne whole assemblies which professe the faith of Christ sincerely in all fundamentall points among whom there be many particular persons which study earnestly to please God mourning for their owne sinnes and are like iust Lot 2. Pet. ◠vexed and tormented to behold the wickednesse of others And now touching wilfull obstinacie how will yée prooue that to be in all the assemblies and in all members of the assemblies of England If ye say there be apparant transgressions in which they continue and therefore they be wilfully obstinate and so to be vtterly abandoned I answer that your conclusion doth not follow because the continuance in all sorts of errors and offenses in such as professe the faith doth not warrant men vtterly to cast them out as Heathen but where after admonition and conuiction the censure of the Church is despised The rule of discipline giuen by our Sauiour Christ maketh this verye cléere If thy brother sinne against thée tell him of it betwéene him and thée alone If he heare thée thou hast wunne thy brother if he heare thée not take one or two with thee that by the mouth of two or thrée witnesses euery word may be confirmed If he heare not them tell it to the Church if he heare not the Church let him be as an Heathen or as a Publican Math. 18. We sée that priuate members may not vtterly abandon and cast foorth any one brother that is one which professeth the true faith and for his profession hath the place and dignitie of a Christian nor iudge him so wilfully obstinate that he must be accounted as an Heathen vntill the Church haue so iudged and cast him foorth The same orderly course and rule of discipline is to be obserued in admonishing accusing conuincing condemning and vtter abandoning any particuler assembly which hath the dignity of a Christian church and doth offend so gréeuously and shew such obstinacie that it deserueth so heauy a censure In a particular Church there be errors and sinnes I will not saye in many but in all in as much as euery one hath his blindnesse and corruption erreth and sinneth continuallye one waye or other From hence it commeth that of necessitie there be alwaies in the Church diuersities of opinions discord diuision and dissention with many corruptions and abuses For if it be most manifest that the learnedest and godliest that liueth doth carrie with him his errors defects and corruptions what shal we looke for where the multitude is of learned vnlearned strong and weake altogether how innumerable will the frailties and corruptions now among all be
wherevpon it followeth that the vniuersall Church cannot rightly cut off and vtterly abandon anye particular assemblies vnlesse it be for errors abuses which ouerthrow the faith destroy true Christianity The precept of S. Paul in that whervnto we are come let vs procéed by one rule to be like minded Phi. 3. is héer to take place I will now procéed more particularly The church of England euen as it generally standeth in the publike assemblies among al godly Churches which know the faith which she dooth openly professe and maintaine hath the place dignity of a sister They all giue vnto her the right hand of fellowship acknowledging her for a mother in Israel in as much as she hath not béene barren but hath brought foorth many deare children to God and not a few of them crowned with martyrdome Behold then the inordinate dealing and arrogant presumption of you Brownists Yea behold euen the top of your pride against God and man which professing to set vp discipline and glorying that you suffer for it do breake and vtterly abolish the rules thereof giuen by Christ by your vtter forsaking and abandoning all the assemblies in England for let it bee confessed that the errors the sinnes the imperfections the spots and deformities of our Church be many so that she is not in her generall estate so faire as the fairest of her sisters yet hath she héeretofore had and now hath many noble children richlye adorned with heauenly iewels and pretious gifts of learning knowledge faith and godlinesse And howsoeuer the Papists one way and the Brownists another way do aggrauate her crimes with pestilent slaunders yet shall they neuer prooue that either in doctrine or manners she is guilty of any fundamentall crime which separateth from Christ and destroyeth the life and being of a true Church yet you Brownists not obseruing the rule giuen by Christ doo vtterly abandon and cast foorth from their dignitie all our assemblies in England For ye haue condemned al of wilful obstinacy euē to particular members who hath giuen you this authoritie to thrust them out of Gods familie which the whole vniuersall Church cannot rightly doo Who could euer imagine that vnder the pretence of setting vp discipline the diuell should breath such pride into rotten flesh as vtterly to ouerthrow the whole substance of it for whereas all the Churches of Christ in these parts of the world doo know the estate of our Church and be able to discerne the gréeuousnesse of our errors yet doo they all acknowledge and reuerence our assemblies as holye sisters And you Brownists men voide of knowledge and discretion without authoritie without any calling or warrant euen vpon a frantike brauerie and without obseruing any rule giuen by Christ Iesus take vpon ye most presumptuously contrary to the iudgement of the Churches to cast foorth and vtterly to abandon the same What Pope hath dealt more proudly in violating the discipline If there were but this one thing against you it were sufficient to declare your cursed dealing but your furies are many first in your slaunderous accusations which now we come vnto The first principall crime obiected by the Brownists Transgres 1 The Brownists THey worship the true God after a false manner their worship being made of the inuention of man euen of the man of sinne erronious imposed vpon them To this I did answer that our worship is the imbracing of the holy Bible by the doctrine thereof we séeke to beléeue in God to call vpon him and to doo all good workes c. The Brow The first transgression we charge your assemblies with is that you worship God after a false manner your worship being made of the inuention of man euen of the man of sinne erronious and imposed vpon you You answer your worship is the imbracing of the holy Bible Thus begging the question you neither prooue your worship by the Bible nor answer one of the foure apparant reasons which we bring in our article where it is false and contrary to the Bible c. G. G. To the intent that mine answer and your accusation may stand the cléerer to be séene into and the better to be iudged of I draw your words into a syllogisme thus Whatsoeuer assemblies worship the true God after a false manner their worship being made of the inuention of man euen of the man of sinne c. the same are not the true Churches of God But the assemblies as they generally stand in England doo worship the true God after a false manner their worship being made of the inuention of man c. Therefore the assemblies in England be not the true churches of God I did not nor doo not deny the first part of this argument the proposition so that we vnderstand by false maner of worship and the same made of the inuention of man such a false manner as dooth ouerthrow the very ground and foundation of faith and make an vtter seperation from the Lord Iesus Christ Such as the worship is in popery where they teach and doo many things contrary to the principles of faith placing holinesse and the worship of God in their owne inuentions and séeking remission of sinnes and the merite of eternall life in euery beggerly supersticious obseruation and ceremony But if by false manner of worship yée vnderstand euery error fault corruption in matters of religion which though they be euill and to be condemned yet ouerthrow not the faith nor the very essence of Gods true worship but be in circumstances or in parts that may be maimed and yet the life remaine then I deny the proposition as most erronious false and hereticall For king Dauid with the princes the Préests the Leuites and people erred and that grosly contrary to the expresse law of God Numb 7. vers 9. when they carried the Arke vpon a Cart yet were they euen then the true Church of God It was a great offence that in the dayes of some good Kings of Iuda the people sacrificed in the high places but only to the Lord 2. Kings 11. 14. 15. They should by Gods appointment haue doone it at Ierusalem onely yet were they neuerthelesse Gods people The Passouer was a principall part of Gods worship but they kept it not so precisely according to the law of a long time as they did in the 18. yeare of Iosias 2. King 23. 2. Chron. 35. The Preachers at Corinth did very euill in building Timber Straw and Hay vpon the foundation and so did the people which sorted themselues as it were by seuerall companies to follow them But yet because they held Christ the foundation in the true doctrine S. Paul saith their workes should burne they should suffer losse neuerthelesse they themselues should be saued as it were by fier 1. Cor. 3. Now to come vnto the second part of your argument the assumption which is that the Church of England dooth worship the true God after a
therefore the couenant is disanulled with them all I will therefore prooue that I haue said by strong arguments the first shall be this Whosoeuer maintaineth that where any grosse sinnes breake forth and appeare there is not any true faith in the parties which offend he doth contrary to the expresse word of God maintaine flat heresie for we are taught euery where that regeneration which consisteth in putting of the old man and putting on the new is by degrées wrought in Gods elect Whervpon the holy Ghost compareth the spirituall birth with the naturall A man is borne a poore weake babe not able to go alone or yet to stand vpright hee is nourished and fed with milke and so in continuance dooth growe vp by degrées vnto mans estate We are borne againe not of mortall but of immortall seed euen the word of God which indureth foreuer 1. Pet. 1. wherefore he willeth that laying aside all maliciousnes deceipt hypocrisie and such like we couet the sincere milke of the word that we may grow thereby 1. Pet. 2. ver 1. 2. The regenerate are in many places exhorted to put off and to mortifie euill and vncleane lusts to forsake their wicked sins Rom. 12. Ephes 4. Colos 3. Iam. 1. And if in many things we sinne all Iam. 4. Yea euē such as are grown vp in Christ to mans estate How many shall we then suppose are the falles of poore new borne Babes if Dauid Solomon Samson and many other replenished with great grace did fall gréeuously how shall we looke that other shall be frée Let the Church of Corinth be for an example in this point euen the teachers and people together vnto whom S. Paul writeth thus I could not speake vnto yee brethren as vnto spirituall men but as vnto carnall men as vnto babes in Christ I gaue yee milke to drinke and not meate for yee could not beare it neither can yee now for yee are yet carnall for when as there are among yee emulation contention and discords are yee not carnall and walke as men when one saith I am of Paul an other I am of Apollo are yee not carnall 1. Cor. 3. ver 1. 2. 3. 4. Is not the matter as cléere as the Sunne that he calleth them carnal burthened with the flesh and in that respect prophane as their open sinnes did declare and yet babes in Christ regenerate through faith and the déere children of God It is said of our Sauiour Hee will not breake the brused reed nor quench the smoaking Flax Math. 12. ver 20. Saint Paul following the steps of his Maister in care in loue in mercie and compassion toward the poore weake babes in Christ behaued himselfe in the Churches as a nursse vnto hir little infants 1. Thess 2. ver 8. But the fierce Brownists doo maintaine contrary to this manifest doctrine of the Scriptures that where corrupt manners breake foorth in those that professe the Gospell they be not onely vtterly voide of faith which offend but also that all they which worship together with them though neuer so much gréeued at their sinnes are fallen from the couenant most cruelly by this meanes thrusting downe all the weake and casting foorth all poore babes I may say the strong together with them therefore the Brownists doo maintaine heresye Euery faithfull man is to follow the example of blessed Paul in that which he dooth testifie of himselfe how he forgat the things which were behinde and pressed forward toward the things which were before euen towards perfection Phil. 3. ver 14. But yet it followeth in the same place neuerthelesse in that vnto which we are come let vs procéed by one rule to be like affected Shall the strong when all are to take the iourney together runne away and leaue the babes and the féeble behinde them nay rather let them leade them by the hand carie them in theyr armes and vpon their shoulders Let the Brownists alone who as if they were ayrie spirits disburthened of all lumpe of the flesh mount vp aloft and leaue poore heauie loden sinners crawling vppon the earth The other argument by which I prooue them to maintaine Heresie in this their second accusation is this Whosoeuer maketh the stablenesse of Gods couenant towards his people and with his Church to depend vppon the works of men he mayntayneth flat Heresie for albeit the words of the Couenant be these I will be your God and you shall be my people which implyeth a true sanctification required to glorifie God and to be thankfull yet the Couenant is wholly and altogether of mercie yea euen of the riches of his frée grace who hath promised and sworne vnto vs to declare the stablenesse of his counsell that we might haue strong consolation Hebrewes 6. vers 17. We are saued by grace and not by works Tit. 3. As the Couenant was made vnto Dauid in some particular so was it to Abraham and his séede in generall Then thus it is written I will make him my first borne higher then the Kings of the earth I will keepe my mercy for him for euer and my couenant with him shall be stable I will set his seed for euer and his throne as the daies of heauen If his children shall forsake my lawe and not walke in my iudgements If they shall prophane my Statutes and not obserue my commaundements I will visite their defection with the rod their iniquitie with plagues But I will not disanull my mercy towards him nor falsifie my faith I wil not prophane my couenāt nor alter the thing which is gone out of my lips I haue once sworne by my holines I wil not lie vnto Dauid Psal 89. v. 28. If the couenant made with Abraham and his séede did not stand after the same sort stablished vppon the frée promise of grace and vppon the oath of God how could it be said after all the defections and rebellions of the Churche of Israell reckoned vp and after hée had chastised them that hée remembred his couenant with them and he repented through the multitude of his compassions if it be sayd they repented and so returned agayne into couenant with him and obteyned mercie I answere they repent not but by his mercie and grace which he bestowed vpon them because they were within his couenant Now the Brownists in affirming that by open grosse sinne committed by any if they remayne still in the Church the couenant is not only disanulled to them but vnto all that doo communicate with them and so make the stablenesse of Gods couenant not to depend vpon mercie and frée grace promised and bound with an oth but vppon our works yea and in a more tickle estate euen vppon the woorkes of other whome we must iudge Therefore the Brownists mayntayne verie wicked heresie when they crye out that those assemblyes where any open sinners are not cast foorth they be no longer the true Church of God but the Couenant is disanulled with them
ouercome Then yée turne your selues to those poore soules as yée terme thē whom we like miserable Physicians séeke to cure and your Counsell you giue them I doo allow it for it is the same in effect if you could sée that I gaue them before I would to God the people did follow it we should not then haue one Brownist The Deuill counterfaiting Christs voice in hereticall schismatikes should not be able to allure and call away the shéepe from their shéepeheards Now remaineth the last point onely that I shew some reason to prooue our Ministery to be of Christ The ministery of the Gospell which bringeth the worde of faith and reconciliation betwéene God and the worlde is the true ministerie of Christ for the Deuil and Antichrist ordeine no such ministerie Nowe the ministerie of the Church of England doth bring no word nor doctrine but the sacred scriptures It preacheth faith in God through Christ and the doctrine of repentance deliuering the holy sacraments as seales to confirme the same Let all the schismatikes in the world barke against it and say we haue no word nor Sacraments yet this is the holy word God so loued the world that hee gaue his onely begotten sonne that whosoeuer beleeueth in him should not perish but haue life euerlasting It may be sayde that many ministers in England doo not nor cannot preach the Gospell how then is their ministery the ministery of reconciliation Héere note that as we must distinguish betwéene the ministery and the man himselfe which is the minister for the man may be of the Deuill and yet his ministery of God so must we also distinguish betwéene the function it selfe and the execution of the same For when one is called to bee a minister of the Gospell which is able and dooth not preach the defect is not in the function but in his negligence about the execution Likewise when the office or function is layd vpō him that cannot preach the function it selfe is entyre the defect is in the execution thereof through his disabilitie I say therfore that the Ministerie of England is the Ministerie of the Gospell though some doo not and some cannot Preach Then further such as haue the calling and ordination of the Church haue the Ministerie of Christ for it is giuen to the Church to haue power to call and ordeine Ministers Now if the Church doo falt and breake either by error or negligence in some rules which are to be obserued about this calling and ordinatiō yet the power is not disanulled nor the function destroyed vnlesse we will hold that where there is transgression either of ignorance or otherwise the whole is ouerthrowne and so conclude that there is no praier nor worship of God nor any true seruice doone vnto him vnder heauen because all is with errors and faults In England the Ministers haue their calling and ordination by the Church of God For that people which hath forsaken heresies and false worship and imbraced the doctrine of the Gospell hath in it the true Church which hath the power And the Ministers intrude not themselues but haue the power giuen them by the hands of the Bishops who doo it not by their owne authoritie nor by any authoritie from Antichrist but as committed to their trust by publike authoritie Moreouer that is the Ministerie of God which is to bring men to the faith and to build vp the body of Christ The Ministerie of England is to none other end For the whole drift the whole scope and burthen laid vpon them is to féede with wholsome doctrine and to guide in the waye of godlinesse the shéepe of Christ walking before them in godlye conuersation The Brownist will not take himselfe héere conuinced but will say these causes are but pretended and are not in truth I will therefore now reason from the effect together with that which is properly adioyned to the Ministerie of Christ That Ministerie with the execution whereof there is ioyned the effectuall grace power blessing and operation of the Holy-ghost to the true conuersion of mens soules is not a Ministerie of the Deuill nor of Antichtist nor commeth not in the life and power of the beast but is indeed the true Ministerie of Christ I thinke the Brownists will not be so beastly as to affyrme that the grace and operation of the holy Ghost to the conuersion of mens soules is ioyned to that and worketh by that which is of the Deuill and commeth in the life and power of Antichrist Then it remayneth only to shewe that there hath béene and is this grace and worke in the execution of our function If the Brownists will deny that euer they felt that maiestie and power in the preaching which can not be in the words of man but only in that word which is sharper then any two edged sword and pierceth so déepe as to be a discerner of the thoughts and secret intents Or if they will denie that euer they haue béene driuen by it vnto hatred sorrowe and remorse for sinne and raysed vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenesse and with the promises of eternall glorie Yet vnto many other which by it are conuerted vnto the Lord in déede which vnto feare and trembling doo féele the power and swéetnesse of the liuely word it may be sayd as S. Paule speaketh to the Corinths for when his aduersaries did denie him to be an Apostle the Corinths by his Ministerie were begotten in Christ wherevpon he sayth If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet am I vnto you for you are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord 1. Cor. 9. ver 2. Euen so if the Ministery of Englād be not the Ministery of Christ vnto others yet you can not doubt of it your faith your repentance your ioy in the Lord are the seale of it You can not but sée and knowe that they be vile blasphemous wretches which beare ye in hand that it is not the word of God nor the grace of his spirit which worketh in ye but the power of the Deuill and the spirit of Antichrist You knowe it is the direct way which the Deuill taketh by his ministers to bring in flat Atheisme to disgrace and throwe downe the credite of the ministerie But doth it not make against the Ministerie of England that many of the Brownists confesse they haue béene greatly moued at sometimes with the power of the preaching and at the administration of the Sacraments for may it not bée sayd héerevpon that it is but a deceyuable shewe of grace and power for if it had béene in truth it would haue continued I answer it is sufficient to proue the Ministerie and that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with it when men haue bin so moued although they do not continue séeing the reprobate do féele the power and taste the swéetnes of the word for a time Hebr. 6. He that hath therefore felt the power of God in his soule by the
the name and I haue heard diuers say they go beyond Browne But whosoeuer shal reade his books and peruse all their writings shall well see that he deserueth to haue the honour if any be and to be called the Captaine and maister of them all They haue all their furniture from him they do but open his packe and displaye his wares They haue not a sharpe arrowe which is not drawne out of his quiuer Then next touching the question betweene them and me let the reader consider it is not about the controuersie in our Church as whether there be imperfections corruptions and faults in our worship ministerie and church gouernment nor how many great or small But whether there be such heynous enormities as destroy the verye life and being of a true Church and make an vtter diuorse from Christ I will lay it open more plaine by a comparison which the Scripture vseth The Church is like a man in whom there be many parts and members Rom. 12. If all the parts or members of the body haue their iust proportion be whole and sound and set in their due order the soule and life departed he is no longer a man to speake properly but the dead carcasse of a man But now if he be sicke and diseased so that all partes are feeble or if he be deformed with sores and maimes wanting hand foote eye nose or such like yet is he still a man so long as the soule and life remaine in him All men doo know this to be true yea euen the simplest make no doubt or controuersie about it Let vs see therefore whether it be a fitte comparison with the Church and whether it be so in it of necessitie and as manifest by the doctrine of the holy scriptures as this other is vnto our bodily senses To finde this we must first consider whether there be no true Church of GOD but that which is perfect in this worlde Wee knowe that there are none but Heretikes yea ranke abhominable heretikes which obstinately deny this cleere doctrine of the holy Scriptures namely that euen the most faithfull and the most godly are not perfect while they liue vpon the earth We know but in part 1. Cor. 13. In many things we sinne all Iam. 3. v. 2. And who vnderstandeth his errors or who can tell how oft he offendeth Psal 19. The perfectest members of the Church doo erre doo sinne are maimed are weake are spotted and deformed many wayes Nowe whereas all the members be in this case needes must the whole body which is composed of them be in the same estate Then we may not looke for a Church in this world which is not spotted deformed maymed and weake in some respects But the question must bee how farre it may bee deformed and maimed and yet remaine aliue and so a true Church of God Let all the partes bee ioyned together let there be all sortes of officers and offices yet if the life and as it were the soule of the Church be wanting it is but a dead carcasse Contrarywise let there be some members wanting some maimed all parts deformed and weake yet is it a true Church of God so long as the soule and life dooth remaine in it And what is the soule and life of the Church Iesus Christ apprehended by faith I liue now saith Saint Paul but not any longer I but Christ liueth in me Galath 2. ver 20. All the members of the Church are incorporate and graffed into Christ by faith and doo growe in him and through the operation of his spirite receiue the iuice and sappe of life from him Iohn 15. Whosoeuer beleeueth in the Sonne of God shall be saued though he be full of errors full of infirmities and deformities both in body and soule labouring to be purged But if a man or an assembly do hold that which ouerthroweth the faith in Christ they are gone there is no life remaining As the Papacie holdeth many things aright touching Christ but it holdeth sundry things contrary which ouerthrow the very foundation of the faith and so the Papacie it selfe is not Gods true Church Thus haue I laide open the question betweene mee and the Brownists wherein then are the Maisters and Capitaines of Brownisme deceiued And what is it in which they seeke victorie and glory They knowe there is no sinne no error no corruption nor no abuse but that if all the learnedest in the worlde would take vpon them to cleere and to defend the same they shall not be able Then they are desirous of victorie of triumphe and glorye ouer all both wise and learned Heere therefore they entrench themselues they make their Bulwarkes plant their ordinance set themselues in arraye and sound the Trumpet of defiance against all They presume none shall euer be able to driue them out of their holde And indeed he that condemneth an error and goeth no further can neuer be vanquished But heerein they are deceiued that out of this Forte they will batter downe the Church For theyr ordinance is ouer weake for that they stoppe in powder in great plenty for they laye on toong enough and so make terrible thundering crakes But the Bullets which come foorth and which should doo the deed are nothing but hereticall erronious and fantasticall opinions and so all vanisheth into smoake They must therefore at the last leaue their holde and take them to their heeles for Gods Church will not be battered downe by any assaults of Schismatikes Some will thinke hardly that I terme them Schismatikes seeing they be men that are accounted zealous and stand for good things But the truth is they be not onely a Schisme yea a vile Schisme rending themselues from the Church of England and condemning by their assertions the whole visible Church in the worlde euen as the Donatists did of olde time but also they maintaine heresies and some that touche the very foundation of faith and Christian religion they be vtter violaters of ecclesiasticall discipline they abridge the power of the ciuill Magistrate beside sundry fantasticall opinions For when as the life of the church consisteth in the apprehensson of Christ through faith it must needs be an heresie to conclude as they doo a nullitie a quite ouerthrow of the same from errors faults which are not fundamentall Faith and regeneration being vnperfect in all that liue vpon the earth it is heriticall to say that is no Church of God which holding the sounde doctrine hath sinnes and great abuses in it The stablenesse of Gods couenant towarde the Church being founded onely vpon his free grace it is detestable impietie to hang it vpon the works of men as the Brownists do when they affyrme that where there is any open sinnes suffered in an assemblie the couenant is disanulled with them all And if men consider well they shall finde that the whole Brownisme resteth vppon the heresie of perfection and Anabaptisticall freedome For from hence that it
not deceyued but knowe for certaintie that they be full and rancke Donatists and Anabaptists in part I knowe it is complayned of that there be so many and so diuers Sectes and Heresies dayly springing vp where the Gospell is preached for it seemeth a foule disgrace both to the Gospell it selfe and to the Preachers There are say some at the least fifty seuerall sectes Behold say others how the people are lead without ground and haue no stay but are caryed without ende from one thing to another What is the cause is not the preaching is there any thing deliuered which is certayne are not the fruites of theyr Sermons factions and Schismes These speeches do so abash and trouble some that they are driuen backe and retyre into flat Poperie as into a safe hauen which yet in truth is the gulfe of all Schismes and abhominable heresies Others are so much displeased that they become Atheists and care not much for any Religion though of both they doo rather fauour the Poperie A third sort there be which did runne and now stand still and wonder they knowe not whether they were best to goe backe or forward Their loue and zeale is decayed and readie vtterly to be quenched It is wonderfull that there should be such blindnes in men and want of wisedome to consider rightly of all causes and effects The Scriptures are cleere that light is come into the world and men loue darknesse more then light because their works be euill And what followeth heerevpon because they receyue not the loue of the truth that they might be saued God doth send them strong delusion to beleeue lyes that they may be damned 2. Thess 2. It is the heauie iudgement of God vppon the wicked world that Satan is let loose to seduce and leade into error Men are worthie of such a plague and it doth come vppon them to the full for they be not able now to discerne the truth but do reproch and blaspheme it seeking the disgrace of such as do bring it Moreouer the Scriptures do shewe that God hath an other purpose in sending strong delusion and the efficacie of error and that is touching his elect for they be clogged with the fleshe slowe and dull to search out the truth they be readie to leane to their owne wisedome and seeke not vnto God When Schismes and Heresies arise it doth awaken them causeth them to search more diligently yea to seeke vnto God and to depend wholly vppon him for light and instruction It causeth them to feare and tremble in humilitie and to make precious account of the truth when they haue once found it seeing the Deuill laboureth so mightely to depriue them of it by quenching the light I heare sayth S. Paule that there be Schismes among ye and I do in part beleeue it for there must be Heresies that such as are approued may be made manifest 1. Cor. 11. When we see it come to passe that through the malice and craft of the Deuill and his instruments such confusion doth ouerspread all let vs not loue the Gospell the worse let vs not blaspheme it but knowe it standeth vs vpon to be more carefull The blessed Apostles themselues had to encounter with Heretikes and false Apostles and full cunningly did Satan winde in himselfe in their dayes When they were taken away what troups of Heretikes did he send foorth what blasphemies and detestable furies did he vtter and spread by them how were all the auncient Doctors and holy Fathers in the Churches set on worke to confute them and to defend the true Christian people from infection Why then should we nowe be daunted or why should it be any reproch to the holy Doctrine now more then of old that the Diuell where any light is shewed doth followe it by and by at the heeles to worke disgrace Let the ministers of Gods Word looke diligently to theyr flockes and teach them the wholesome pure Doctrine and the way of Sanctification Let true zeale spring afresh which nowe suffreth great contempt because there is a mad bedlem risen vp which nameth her selfe by her name There be diuers which cry out against zeale very naughtely when it is most certayne no man can haue ouermuch godly zeale especially in these dayes wherein who almost hath any hote loue for the glorie of God and the saluation of his people If Christ should speake what other sentence can we looke for but that which he vttered of the Church of Laodicea Reuel 3. Thou art neyther hote nor cold But let vs come to the matter in hand A breefe sum of the profession of the Brownists _1 WE seeke aboue all things the peace and protection of the most high and the kingdome of Christ Iesus our Lord. 2 We seeke and fully purpose to worship God aright as he hath commaunded in his holy worde 3 We seeke the fellowship and communion of his faithfull and obedient seruants and together with them to enter couenant with the Lord. And by the direction of his holy spirite to proceed to a godly free and right choise of ministers and other officers by him ordained to the seruice of his Church 4 We seeke to establish and obey the ordinances and lawes of our Sauiour Christ left by his last will and testament to the gouerning and guiding of his Church without altering changing innouating wresting or leauing out any of them that the Lord shall giuevs sight of 5 We purpose by the assistance of the Holyghost in this faith and order to leade our liues And for this faith and order to leaue our liues if such be the good will and pleasure of our heauenly Father to whom be all glory and praise for euer Amen 6 And now that our forsaking and vtter abandoning these disordered assemblies as they generally stand in England may not seeme strange or offensiue to any man that will iudge or be iudged by the worde of God we alledge affirme them hainouslye faultie and wilfullye obstinate in these foure principall transgressions 1 They worship the true God after a false manner their worship being made of the inuention of man euen of that man of sinne erronious and imposed vpon them 2 Then for that the prophane vngodly multitude without the exception of any one person are with them receiued into and reteined in the bosome and body of their Church c. 3 Then for that they haue a false and Antichristian ministery imposed vpon them retained with them and maintained by them 4 Then for that their Churches are ruled by and remaine in subiection vnto an Antichristian and vngodly gouernment cleane contrary to the institution of our Sauiour Christ G. G. 1 IN my former answer vnto these your articles which ye call A breefe sum of your profession I kept the same order in which they stand But now I begin first with your heauy accusation of the foure heinous transgressions for which ye condemne and abandon all the assemblies as they
from the booke which also dooth instruct me the like may be said when the congregation dooth pray with their pastor they fetch not the cause of their sighing from him but are stirred vp by him Your next words stand thus The reasons why we disalow of read prayers in steed of spiritual prayers that though they may be read for meditation as any other mens writs yet is it Idolatrie to offer vp to God such manner of sacrifices either priuately or in the publike assemblies Yée are very angrie that I termed your reasons by which yée oppose read praier vnto spirituall praier spirituall fantasies But take you héed that they grow not to be worse Yée are also gréeued that I call them your stuffe but how good stuffe it is let the pure word try I said it is false doctrine to make read prayer serue only for meditation My proofe was this that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art in heauen and héere ye fling about as if ye had Béez For first ye exclaime that I make smal conscience to sclaunder ye because I said ye make read prayer serue only for meditation which is false doctrine Meditation as I take it comprehendeth all that is done in studying and musing when one readeth the praying is another If ye can shew a third vse when one readeth prayer I will confesse an error otherwise though ye haue not expressed the word only yet ye haue in effect vttered so much when ye say read prayer is not to be prayed Secondly ye charge me to deny that read prayer serueth for meditation at all which is in deede false doctrine because I said Christ saith not when ye meditate but when ye pray say thus Our Father which art c. Do I not say truly that Christ saith not when ye meditate but when yée pray say thus Our Father which art c. How can you then but like Spiders sucke that poyson from thence Thirdly ye accuse me that I make no difference betwéene our owne Leiturgies and the Canonicall Scripture which is a most friuolous cauill séeing our question is about reading of prayer whether it be Canonicall Scripture or framed from thence according to the rules of godly prayer Thus haue ye answered nothing at all vnto that commaundement which I alleaged giuen by our Sauiour to vse that prescript forme of prayer but only by shift and cauill Then ye goe about to proue that euery sinne against the first Table of the Lawe is Idolatry but with no shewe of reason And heere ye scoffe because I sayd if euery sinne that is against the first Table be Idolatry who shall be saued and ye demaund who is frée from Idolatry an absurd spéech for the Scripture doth not call the godly either murtherers théeues idolaters or such like I thought we had not reasoned about the reliques of sin which remaine in the best so long as they liue héere but of such grosse idolatry as a Church is to be condemned and forsaken which is defiled therewith But séeing ye confesse that all men be idolaters that is touching the remnants of sinne it must néedes followe that there is no Church frée from all spottes for if all the partes and members be defyled the whole can not be cleane This doth ouerthrowe all the arguments which yée bring to condemne the Church of England which haue no force vnlesse yée will maintaine a perfection for if a Church and euery member in it can not but of necessitie be spotted and defyled with some remnants of idolatrie euen by your owne confession then can ye not reason thus this is a fault it is idolatrie therefore this or that assemblie which is spotted is no true Church but to be forsaken But ye must stand to prooue that the idolatrie is so grosse that it destroyeth the faith ouerthroweth Gods true worship and so destroyeth the verie life béeing of a Church Thus much about your preface now follow your argumēts No apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblyes All read prayer is apocrypha Therefore no read prayer is to be brought into the publike assemblyes In my first answere I did deale only with the assumption or second part of this Argument affirming that I could not sée how it can be proued and shewing sundry absurdities that would follow as namely that a prayer of the Canonicall Scripture being read when one prayeth should become apocrypha c. But you replyed that those absurdities grow from my mistaking your words and I sawe it was so for our question being about the reading of prayer and not about the matter it selfe I tooke it that although yee hold the Lords prayer and other prayers in the holy Scripture to be Canonicall in themselues yet being read to become apocrypha because ye say all read prayer is apocrypha and did not expresse it with this restraint all read prayer framed by men is apocrypha I must now take the Argument as you say your meaning is and deale with both the parts thereof First then touching the proposition no apocrypha is to be brought into the publike assemblies what can be more false Apocrypha is opposed vnto Canonicall if nothing may be brought into the Church but the Canonicall Scriptures then the Sermons and prayers of the pastors and teachers are to be banished I knowe your meaning is not at all to exclude these although your words taking apocrypha as it is in vse among vs do in déede shut them foorth and not only them but any paraphrase vpon the Scripture as the Psalmes in Metre Now to your assumption which saith all read prayer is apocrypha first it is false touching the Psalmes and the Lords prayer which be Canonicall when they be prayed Then further I sée no fitnesse in applying the name apocrypha vnto our spéech to God though it be vsed for that which is not his vndoubted word to vs. For by what name opposite to apocrypha will ye call those prayers which ye do allow ye will not call them Canonicall this Argument therfore is false and friuolous Argum. 2. We must do nothing in the worship of God without warrant of his word Read prayers haue no warrant of his word Therfore read prayers are not to be vsed in the worship of God To this I answer at the first that it is great audacitie to affirme that there is no warrant of the word for read prayer whē there be sundry testimonies to warrant the same vnlesse ye will make a difference betwéene that which a man readeth vpon the booke that which he hath learned out of the booke Further I said I do not remember that euer I haue read in the holy Scriptures that God commandeth the prayer shall be read vpon the booke for he commendeth this diligēce in all his people that they should throughly learne to vnderstand not only the matters but also the sentences and phrases which his spirit
the Pastour doth keepe backe some for ignorance c. Heere you confesse that very many Churches in England want godly Pastours and that there all are admitted and that he that admitteth them is the worste of the company Thus you make the most Chuches in England in a very bad estate and so farre foorth you affirme your article But yet you know some Churches c. I did confesse and doo still with gréefe that in very manye assemblies in England all are admitted to the Table of the Lord which offer themselues euen the most prophane and grosse sinners I shewed also the reason of this gréeuous offence namely that the ministers which should repell such open offenders are many times the worst or at least negligent in that behalfe And moreouer that the Church of England dooth neither approoue such admission of prophane men to the Sacrament nor yet suffer it in practise wholy For touching practise there be many congregations in the land where sundrie for ignorance and open wickednesse are by the ministers kept backe and not suffered to communicate vntill they shew repentance And for not approouing such admission I said the booke of Common prayer dooth prescribe and commaund the repelling of notorious wicked offendours and also that some are excommunicated iustly not admitted to publike praier This was the first part of mine answer wherein I prooue your accusation false The other is that the godly are not polluted by the companye of the wicked which are suffered to communicate with them in Gods worship and the thing not in their power to redresse And for example I alledged the Church of the Iewes By which I prooue that if your accusation were true yet it destroyeth not the Church Now let vs examine how you ouerthrowe this by your replye Yée aske whether there were no more prophane in the parish besides those twenty or thirty which are repelled And whether those other prophane were not admitted I answer If there were yet the repelling of twenty or thirty in a flock dooth shew that you accuse falsely when yée say all the prophane without exception of any one person are reteined in the body and bosome of our Church But to prooue your article at once as yée say by a more direct course yée bring an argument And yée demand if I know anye in all the realme of England vnbaptized Is not Baptisme say you a Sacrament belonging to the Church by which all the faithfull and their séed doo enter into it Wherevpon yée argue thus All being baptized it followeth that all are receiued into the body of your Church Now being once receiued in they can no way be cast out but by excommunication And it is manifest that the Parson and all his parish hath not the powre which Christ hath left vnto his Church to excommunicate any offender be he neuer so obstinate or notorious c. This being the onely reason by which ye stand to prooue the truth of your accusation I must bestow the more paines about it Thus it must be set in forme Where all are receiued in by Baptisme and no power to cast foorth any by excommunication there all the prophane multitudes are without exception of any one person receiued into reteined in the bosome and body of the Church But in the Church of England all are receiued in by Baptisme and there is no power to cast foorth any by excommunication Therefore in England all the prophane multitudes without exception of any one person are receiued into and reteined in the bosome and body of the Church In your proposition there are to be excepted such as are repelled from the Sacrament who are in some sort for the time remooued out of the bosome of the Church And also such Papists Heretikes and Scismatikes as depart out of themselues It is further also to be considered in it that all the baptized continuing outwardly obedient they cannot be iustly called the prophane multitudes Your presumption in which ye charge the Church of England with a principall transgression for receiuing in all by Baptisme and hauing no power to cast foorth any by Excommunication is with foule error and falsehood Touching the Baptisme of Infants this appeareth to be your iudgement that the children of prophane men which remayne in the Church and professe the faith of Christ belong not to the couenant and therefore ought not to be Baptised No doubt the Church doth offend when open notorious sinners are not Excommunicate and brought to repentance or at the least to such a shewe of repentance as that men can not further iudge them but as Brethren It is also an offence where such not being cast foorth their children are receyued vnto Baptisme and that without care to sée them brought vp and instructed in the Christian Religion and to leade a Godly life agréeable to the same But to say that the children of prophane men taking prophane men as you doo which professe Christianitie and remayne in the Church are not to be Baptised is a very wicked iniurie to Gods people and contrarie to the manifest doctrine of the holie Scriptures and can not without Heresie be mayntayned First touching prophane people it is certayne that all Heathen Heretikes all Scismatikes open contemners of the holie Religion and all obstinate wicked men whiche despise the censure of the Church that hath passed vppon them may be called prophane But you Brownists go further and condemne them all as Infidels and prophane which professe the faith of Christ because notwithstanding they doo it in some weakenes and infirmities which is a wicked presumption and intrusion into Gods seate and in which as I haue shewed before yée breake the rule of discipline giuen by our Sauiour Christ by which no brother that is none which professeth the true faith is for his sinnes and impenitencie to be iudged as heathen vntill he haue despised the admonition of the Church and so be cast foorth You take vppon yée to plucke vp all the Darnell yée are commaunded the contrarie least yée plucke vp the Wheate Math. 13. You dare and that in most sauage and desperate manner rend and teare vp the weake plants yée doo it vnto whole assemblyes in which there be many that vnfaynedly sorrow and mourne for their sinnes and studie to please God all that feare the Lord may tremble at this your intollerable wickednes But now to procéede Ye will not allowe the children of prophane men the Sacrament of Baptisme And what is your reason they bée not the séede of the faithfull In déede in this yée say true that none are in theyr infancie to be admitted to this Sacrament but the séede of the faithfull but when yée take it that the children whose next parents are hypocrites or wicked and prophane persons which yet remayne in the Church and professe Christ be not the séede of the faithfull at all and in any respect and so within the couenant and to be baptized
doo offend in not executing the discipline vpon vngodly men to bring them to repentance but in receiuing their children to be baptized they doo not offend so they sée them taught in the faith and to liue a godlye life as our Church hath established yea in refusing them the infants should receiue great iniurie But to make this matter yet more cléere the question is to be answered whether the Church of Rome be the Church of Christ For the Brownists doo hold that our auncestors were not the Church of Christ in the time of poperie and that we now are confused multitudes not rightlye entered into couenant with God to become a Church séeing wee were not of Gods true Church before neither orderly entered into couenant Indéed if we were not within the couenant before from our auncestors nor entered orderly to become a Church the matter would séeme strong against vs. Let it therefore be examined I know this is the vsuall spéech of the learnedest Deuines the church of God is in the Papacie but the Papacie is not the church And it may be the sense will differ little or nothing but I take it a fitter spéech to saye the Papacie is in the church then to say the church is in the papacie For Antichrist dooth sit in the Temple of God his lawes his worship and all his abhominations were brought into the church All the men which receiued his marke and worshipped him were in the church yea euen the whole Apostasie was in the churche The church was before and that commeth after and entreth into or ariseth in it Then to the question if by the church of Rome we vnderstand the Pope his lawes his worship which hath béene deuised by himselfe his adherents and all that worship him or receiue his Marke I answer that this is that which may properly be called the church of Rome which is the papacie the apostasie and seduced to damnation and not the church of Christ otherwise then thus that the Pope the Cardinals and all that worship the Beast be false Christians by profession bred in the Church and continuing in it their séede not excluded from the couenant But if by the Church of Rome we vnderstand all those companies of people ouer whome the tyrannie of the Pope hath heeretofore extended it selfe or dooth at this day or those things which were giuen by Christ which remaine in the same I say this is not the church of Rome but the Church of God First if we respect the holye doctrine of God in all those points which were and are kept sound among them and the holye Sacrament of Baptisme Then secondly if we consider the kingdoms and people themselues all did not fall from Christ but many held the foundation the most of them lying scattered and hid in the desolations and ruines Thirdly if we regard that the infants not only of these faithfull but euen of the wicked Apostates which worshipped the beast were still within the couenant as the holy séed we shall see that the papacie was and is in the Church which is the Temple of God and not the synagog of Rome The Church of Rome then is not the true Church of God but the Church of Rome is the Apostasie in the church Let vs come then more particularly The church of England in the time of poperie was a member of the vniuersall church and had not the being of a church of Christ from Rome nor tooke not her beginning of being a Church by seperating hir selfe from that Romish synagog but hauing her spirites reuiued and her eyes opened by the light of the heauenly word did cast foorth that tyrannie of Antichrist with his abhominable idolatrie heresies and false worship and sought to bring all her children vnto the right faith and true seruice of God And so is a purer and more faithfull church then before Idolatrie was openly set vp in the church of Israel at sundrye times It did not as I haue shewed disanull the couenant of God with them nor debarre their children from the holy signe of circumcision but all the Iewes are called the children of the couenant Then let the Brownist shew some reason why it should bee otherwise in this case with our churches then it was with the church of Israel Thus much for the one part of your assumption wherein ye blame the church of England for receiuing in all by baptisme Now touching the other part of it in which ye affirme that there is no power to cast foorth any by excommunication yée speake very falsely For the church of England hath some power to excommunicate But you reason thus the person and all his parish hath not the power to excommunicate anye one offendor therefore the church of England hath not powre to excommunicate Is it possible if a man would study to reason absurdlie that he should excell yée Will yee argue thus euery seuerall part by it selfe hath not power to excommunicate therefore the whole together hath not the power It is not méete indéed that the Parson and his parish should haue the power to excommunicate vnlesse it bee such a Parish as hath the Consistorie of Pastors Teachers and Gouernours It séemeth yée haue great skill in the discipline of Christ The seuerall flockes about Geneua without the Citie haue euery one a Pastor and two Elders but yet they haue not the power to excommunicate but that is referred to the Consisiorie which is within the Citie Maister Beza Epist 20. Will yée say those seuerall flockes cannot be the Churches of Christ vnlesse their pastors and they together haue power to excommunicate They are members of that church which hath power to excommunicate But yée will say that the excommunication of the Commissarie is no excommunication and therfore our parishes be no members of a church which hath power to excommunicate The like yée will say of the excommunication by the Bishop himselfe and by the Archdeacon I aunswer that if it should bée graunted ye that their excommunication dooth not binde in heauen yet it is of force to remooue and dooth remooue from the societye of our assemblies which prooueth your accusation false because we reason about this outward remoouing But what if the Bishop together with sundry other Ministers of the Gospell doo excommunicate duely an obstinate wicked man is he not excommunicate before God If there be an heretike conuinced and found obstinate and the Bishops and Ministers of the Church of England assembled or some competent number of them as in the conuocation or such synod do duely excommunicate him is it no excommunication Will yée reason after this sort that because euery Minister with his flocke seuerally hath not the power to excommunicate therefore the Ministers of the Church of England are vtterly without this power You confesse that it is the Church of Christ which hath this power though it fault much by negligence in executing the same I would all Brownists could
lesse ought they to take vpon them to set vp the whole frame You meane not to medle with reformation of the state but ye will erect a state and gouernment for is not the power of the Church both publike and great Ye will not daube the walles of Antichrist nor build Iericho no in déede ye are ouerprowd to be dawbers or to repaire ye will erect the Altar and build the Temple in Ierusalem such worthy men must haue a new building of their owne Thus may all men sée that ye confesse the lawe of God condemneth intrusion without lawfull calling and presumption aboue calling and yet ye take vppon ye being priuate and thrust forward other priuate men vnto the chiefe publike worke vnder the heauens but more of this in the next Article Article 5. The Brow We purpose by the assistance of the holy Ghost in this faith and order to leade our liues and for this faith and order to leaue our liues if such be the good will of our heauenly Father c. G. G. If men haue the truth it is good to stand vnto it to the death rather then to deny it as our Church in the same estate it is now in yéelded many blessed constant Martyrs But if a man haue not the truth it is great obstinacie to die for it as sundrie Anabaptists and other Heretikes haue shewed by theyr dying Euery true Christian will rather die then denie the discipline which Christ hath left but you must shewe that God commaundeth priuate men to set it vp The Brow The word of God and your owne mouth hauing approued our desires in these Articles we can not be moued with Satans old temptation to doubt of the Lords vndoubted truth or call his commaundements into question with if it be the truth c. Neyther can we be remoued with that old Popish reason ye bring of certayne blessed Martyrs that dyed in this estate your Church is now in This is not to approoue the state of your Church by Christes Testament which vntil you do though all the men in the world should both dye in it and for it yet could they not iustifie that God condemneth c. G. G. How the word of God and my mouth approoueth your most wicked intrusion without calling let euery wise man iudge Yee call it an old Popish reason that I bring of certayne blessed Martyrs which dyed in the state our Church is nowe in If you had no more frensie in yée then my reason hath Poperie it were much better for yée Let vs sée howe you or any Brownist is able to answere it That Churche which is of the Deuill and hath not the truth but is Antichristian can not bring foorth and nourish vp children to God But the Church of England in the estate it is now in brought foorth and nourished vp children to God séeing it yéelded many blessed and constant Martyrs Therefore the Church of England in the estate it is in hath the truth and is not a false and Antichristian Church When you haue shewed that a false Church can bring foorth and nourish vp true children to God yée may well saye that this is not to prooue our Church by Christes Testament If yee can not prooue that ceasse to cauill Yée denye them not to be blessed Martyrs but yee say that they dyed not in our Church nor for our Church Ye speake confidentlie but in the confirmation of your spéech yée shewe your selues most foolishe For yée say they dyed not in our Church béeing through Gods great mercie depriued and disgraded by theyr enemies All the Martyrs were depriued by theyr enemyes of theyr liues they could not depriue them of theyr faith nor of the truth which they had learned before from the mouthes of Gods Ministers in our Church What were they all disgraded of doo yée take it they were all members of the Synagog of Antichrist or stoode for any dignities or priuiledges in that fellowship vntyll theyr enemyes thrust them foorth Then yée say they dyed not for it but for the truth of Christ How will you separate things as contrarye which doo stand well together they dyed both for the truth of Christ and for our Church they constantly gaue testimonie to the truth and were content to indure any torments to confyrme theyr Bréethren in the same and therein may be sayd to dye for the Church I doo not meane that euery thing which they allowed must néedes be good for they had theyr errors and imperfections Neyther doo I reason after this sorte as though the Martyrs should dye for euery order and obseruation of our Church they dyed for the substance of that faith and woorship which our Church mayntayneth And as I sayd before you must prooue they were not begotten to God by our Church or else confesse our Church to bée the Spouse of Christ Doubtlesse if our Church did not bring them foorth and nursse them vp to God they were deceyued and departed out of the worlde such babes that they tooke a wrong woman for theyr Mother for they tooke our Church to be theyr Mother But you haue another Answere and that is that those Martyrs neuer resisted the truth béeing shewed them nor neuer yéelded vnto any yoake or corruption which God gaue them sight of contrarie to theyr consciences as yée say we doo in these dayes Then the difference will fall out betwéene them and vs that they offended of ignorance and stoode vnder Antichristes yoake yea some of them must be Antichrist himselfe in as much as they were Byshops and yet Gods true Church For yée say they were faithfull in that little light and wée offende of knowledge and therefore can not be the true Church Your confessing them faithful in that little light so Gods Church vnder the same gouernment we be which ye tearme Antichrists yoake doth quite ouerthrowe all Brownisme make what difference ye can betweene them and vs in truth yet shall it appeare that of necessitie graunt them to be the Church ye must confesse ours If ignorance excused them ignorance should excuse many among vs séeing there be multitudes in the land professing the Gospell that are perswaded we haue the truth and be in the right way both in doctrine and gouernment And againe ye are much deceiued if ye suppose that euery Christian man now hath so great vnderstanding as the chiefe of them had that suffered death in the dayes of Quéene Mary Would ye haue men beléeue that Browne himselfe and those Brownists which take themselues his equals haue greater light then eyther Ridley Cranmer Howper Bradford Philpot Taylor and other had when the learnedest in these dayes are not ashamed of those woorthie men but acknowledge them as excellent Diuines How absurd a thing is it that ignorant blinde Schismatikes full of fantasticall and hereticall opinions should boast of theyr great light in comparison of theirs Now we come to the last poynt of all and one of
the greatest I sayd ye must shewe that God commaundeth priuate men to set vp discipline As it standeth ye greatly vpon so ye doo apply all your force héerevnto and in verie déede looke to it for if ye be weake in this and can not shewe good warrant all men will sée that your presump ion against the holie ordinance of God is most vile and damnable let vs sée then how this question will be concluded First ye say God in his lawe commaundeth euery one to séeke the place where he putteth his name Christ in the Gospell commaundeth to séeke the kingdome of God and to take his yoake vppon them c. I aunswere that if a man from these places shoulde conclude therefore priuate men are commaunded to preach the word and to administer the Sacraments it were ridiculous and yet ye may as well as to say that therefore they are to reforme to establishe or to set vp the discipline Your next reason is drawne from the nature of discipline in that it is perpetuall Indéed the substance and essentiall forme of discipline are perpetuall and there be circumstances in it which are variable And thus a man may reason there is a discipline giuen by Christ which is not variable therefore the authoritie neglecting it dooth offend and the Church hath wrong where it is not established but to say that therefore méere priuate men are to establish it is without anye good warrant For when any thing is doone that ought not or anye thing let passe which ought to bee doone in the Church and common-wealth and so a perpetuall commaundement of God broken it is no warrant for priuate men to take the matter in hand and to redresse But you say the Church cannot be gouerned by any other lawes or gouernement I am of this minde that there can be no visible established Churches but where there are some rules of Christes discipline obserued As if there be no Pastors or Teachers no flockes no calling nor order for Preaching the word and administring the Sacraments But to say there is defect or want in some parts of discipline or it is in some things corrupted therefore it is no Church that is gouerned thereby is very hereticall Séeing the Gospel preached and imbraced with true and liuely faith giueth the being to a church Yea but true faith saith the Brownist cannot be without obedience I graunt it cannot be the Church of God if it be wholy disobedient or in matters which concerne the grounds of faith and holy doctrine I saye moreouer that one part of this obedience is that priuate men kéepe themselues within the limits of their calling and doe nothing but that which Gods worde dooth warrant them to deale in Neither ought the Church to be without this discipline saye you I assent that so farre as it is perpetuall the Church cannot want any part or haue it corrupted but with iniurie and damage But your meaning extendeth further as appeareth by your words For God say you holdeth them all in the state of enimies which haue not his sonne to raigne ouer them And your marginall note is If they haue not his Scepter of grace they shall haue his Iron mace Indéed if a man could not haue Christ to raigne ouer him nor be in the state of grace vnlesse the discipline be erected that he may be gouerned thereby all priuate men should be warranted by necessitie to set it vp and to establish it if they could no where finde it already erected where to ioyne themselues but haue yée not before against this heresie confessed the truth in your reply vpon the first article by affirming Christes kingdome to extend vnto all such as by true faith apprehend and confesse him howsoeuer they be scattered or wheresoeuer dispersed vpon the face of the earth If yee had not confessed yée must néedes be driuen thereto For yée take it that Brownists are Gods Churche And yet yée haue not established the Discipline If ye replye that yée indeuour and are letted by force which dooth excuse yée before God I answer that the fetters and chaines can no faster binde the handes and féete of Brownists then the handes of priuate men are bound with the bandes of conscience and the feare of God from presuming to take vpon them publike authoritie And let vs sée where that commaundement ye speake of is giuen vnto priuate men as namely that they are willed to come together with promise of direction and protection and authority not onely to establish Christes lawes and ordinances among them but faithfully to gouerne his house yée doo boldly and presumptuously affirme and can shew no one place of Scripture for it Yée say this assemblie before they be planted and established in this order consisteth hetherto but of particular priuate persons none as yet being called to office or function Who then hath called them together Or being all priuate dooth their comming together make them not to be priuate or is not the action of many priuate men assembled as priuate as of one seuerallye by himselfe Did the assembly of Corah his companions any thing helpe the matter Yee will choose Pastors and Elders who shall ordeine them Doo yee euer reade of anye ordeined but by Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors Teachers and Gouernours Was not the power deriued at the first from the extraordinarie Ministers to the Ordinarie If all the Brownists in the land should come together and choose a Minister and ordeine him should it make him anye more a Minister indéede before God then if all the Apprentises in London taking vpon them to choose a Lorde Maior of the Citie and to minister an othe vnto him should make him a Lord Mayor The Quéens Maiestie hath granted no such authority in the Common-wealth to the Apprentises no more hath the Lord God in the Church vnto the Brownists And as it is in the higher matter so is their wicked presumption more detestable But ye procéed and say therefore we may well conclude that God commaundeth his faithfull Seruants being as yet priuate men together to build his Church c. Yée may euen as well conclude as in the rest of all your hereticall conclusions Is it not wofull that men should be drawne into most damnable wayes by such blinde seducers which bring not so much as a shew or colour of warrant out of Gods word to set them a worke in that whereof they chéefely glorye as namely that they will establish Christes lawes and ordinances without altering changing c But ye alledge the examples of the Primitiue Churches for your patterns and warrant which sued not to the Courtes and parlements nor waited vpon Princes pleasures c. What can bee spoken more grossely The holy Apostles were sent by our Sauiour into al the world furnished with authoritie and commission to set vp his kingdome The Pastors and Gouernours ordeined by them receiue the power not onely for themselues but also to conuey ouer
yée are farre wide for let it be that their next parents before haue béene hypocrites and vnfaithfull yet may they bée the séede of the faithfull for their interest in Gods couenant doth as béeing the seede of the faithfull not depend vppon theyr next parents but vppon the auncient Christians theyr fore-fathers for when he sayth I will be thy God and the God of thy seede the promise is made to a thousand generations Exod. 20. It is sayd that Leuy payd Tithes vnto Melchisedech because he was in the loynes of Abraham when he met Melchisedech and gaue Tythes Hebrewes 7. ver 9. 10. Abraham begat Isaake Isaake begat Iaakob and Iaakob begate Leuie and yet of Leuie it is sayd that he was in the loynes of Abraham yea it must néedes be confessed that all the whole Nation of the Iewes were in the loynes of Abraham Our Sauiour Christ according to the fleshe was in the loynes of Abraham For this cause Saint Peter calleth all the Iewes the children of the Prophets and of the couenant Acts. 3. ver 25. So doth S. Paule Rom. 9. and in that respect they be all called holie Rom. 11. If the first fruites be holie so is the lumpe if the roote be holie so are the boughes Abraham Isaak and Iaakob are the first fruites and the roote all the Israelites the lumpe and the boughes but were they all faithfull no nor yet the greater part for Esayas cryeth that if the number of the children of Israell were as the sand of the sea yet but a remnant should be saued Esay 10. How often doth the Lorde complayne euery where of the greeuous infidelitie and rebellion in the greatest part of that Nation Why then are they called holie and the holie people being many of them reprobates Is it not because they be Abrahams seede and were in the Church by outward profession adding this withall that the elect of God euen the right holie seede were in theyr loynes for Gods chosen did not spring only from the sanctifyed but also from other who touching the outward profession and touching the holy seede which was in theyr loynes were esteemed as members in the Church and were all of them euen the whole nation called the holy people It is not disalowed that in the times of idolatrie openly maintained their children were circumcised Nay further the Lord calleth the children of those wicked idolaters his children Thou hast sayth he by Ezechiel taken thy sonnes and thy daughters which thou broughtest foorth vnto me and sacrificed vnto them to be consumed Thou hast slayne my sonnes and giuen them by causing them to passe through to them Ezech. 16. ver 21. These Idolaters did offer their children to Deuils euen to the Idols of Canaan and shead innocent bloud euen the bloud of their sonnes and daughters when they caused them to passe through the fire Psal 106. If the promise to Abraham and his séede had not béen so effectual as that the holy chosen séede was in the loyns of these Idolaters how could they be said to bring foorth Sonnes Daughters to the Lord How could it be sayd thou hast slayn my sonnes or how could they rightly haue béen circumcised If ye say these Idolaters should not haue remained in the Church but if not by the Ciuill power put to death yet by the censure of the Church cast foorth Yea but there was so generall a declining that neyther of these was performed and so they remayned styll in the Church and brought foorth children vnto God euen such as the couenant made with Abraham did belong vnto they were in his loines they were his séede and not cut off by the wickednes of theyr next parents If yée obiect that the Iewes nowe at this day are the seede of Abraham and by that reason should be still the visible Church I aunswere that although there be Gods elect among them whome eyther he taketh away in their infancie or else calleth them to knowe Christ when they come to mans estate yet the Iewes can not now be called the visible Church nor the Church in as much as they haue reiected hym in whome the Couenant was ratifyed euen the Lord Iesus Christ and therefore he sayde vnto them the Vineyard shall be taken from those Husbandmen and let foorth vnto other And then expounding himselfe he sayth the Kingdome of God shall be taken from yee and giuen to a nation that will bring foorth the fruite thereof The Vineyard was not taken from those naughtie Husbandmen that killed the seruants of the Lord of the Vineyard which came for fruites euen the Prophets vntill they had killed the sonne and heire himselfe Now the naturall braunches are broken off and the wilde oliues euen the Gentiles are graffed in Rom. 11. They are nowe the children of Abraham and heyres of the promise as it is sayd I haue made thée a father of many Nations And in thy séede all Nations of the earth shall be blessed Our fore-fathers many of them declyned in the Apostasie and worshipped Idols but as the Idolatrous Iewes so they remayned still in the Church and brought foorth children to God that is such as were within the Couenant to be accounted the holie séede and so of right were to haue the seale of the couenant set vpon them euen Baptisme We can not say therefore that the Couenant was disanulled and that the Churche vtterlie fayled no not euen in the most horrible confusion of popery but Antichrist did sit in the temple of God 2. Thes 2 Those idolaters were in the Church and the heirs of promise in their loines for we and all the Churches are sprung out of them sealed with the signe of the Couenant as of right belonging vnto vs from our holye auncestors But you Brownists as Catabaptists denie that we haue the signe of the Couenant for yee say we haue no Sacraments If we bee not within the Couenant from our ancestours what are you who hath béene sent from God to call yée vnto a Couenant which yée were not within before Who hath giuen yée the signe of the Couenant or haue yee receiued a couenant without a signe How will you indure this terrible voice of Almightie God yée haue rooted vppe and cast foorth my sonnes and my daughters For if it were said to idolators yée haue slaine my sonnes how much more vnto you which in a most proud furie with intollerable boldnesse and crueltie roote vp and cast foorth the infants of whole assemblies which haue renounced idolatry and professe the Gospell because yée doo account them prophane Let it be they are many of them nothing such as they ought to be but sinners and such as should by the Censures of the Church bee brought into better order yet professing Christ and remaining in the Church their infants are not by their vngodlinesse cast foorth of the Couenant I conclude therefore that the Church of England or at the least many of the teachers and guides
polluted by the company of the wicked which worship together with them especially when they can not remedie the matter To ouerthrowe this Argument you must of necessitie prooue one of these two things eyther that the Church of Israell did not retayne the prophane multitude in her bosome and so the good and the bad worshipped together or else that they were not Gods Church when this was suffered but all that came so together fell from God You shift from this and speake of Idolatrous times in which it is most certayne that the godly did not mixe themselues with the wicked in idolatrous worship We doo not argue whether the godly did ioyne with the wicked in idolatrous worship for it is most cléere they might not nor did not But whether the wicked were suffered and did ioyne with the godly in the true worship and whether they were polluted by communicating with them and that so gréeuously as to disanull the Couenant let the Scriptures be iudge in both these If I should stand to recite all the testimonies and all the complaints which are made by the Prophets against the multitudes of wicked which worshipped together with the godly at sundrie times it would be long some fewe may suffice in a matter so euident He that readeth the bookes of Moyses touching the state of the Church for the space of fortie yeares in the wildernesse what shall he finde in the most but multitudes of prophane rebels against whome the Lord sware that they should not sée his rest whose carcasses also he ouerthrewe in the desert and yet they were not cast out of the assemblie nor separated from the rest so long as they liued nor their seede reiected If yee will see an epitome of their rebellions for that space and for the time of the Iudges looke vppon the 106. Psalme Afterward when the Kings of Iuda raigned euen vntill the captiuitie what gréeuous complaints are made against them A great part which came to worship in the Temple were as Sodom and Gomorrah Iesay 1. 3. Being the Lords Vineyard they brought foorth stinking grapes Iesa 5. Hauing committed thefts adulteries periuries and other abhominable sinnes they came together with the godly to worship in the Temple in so much that the Lord demaundeth if they tooke his house to be a Denne of théeues Ierem. 7. The Préests themselues were not frée from this horrible pollution for it is written they are all dumbe Dogges that cannot barke they loue to sléepe they are gréedy and giuen to Wine Iesay 56. The Prophets prophesie lies the Préests exercise dominion by their hand the people loue to haue it so Ierem. 5. ver 31. The Préests conspire together they are like a roring Lion they deuide the pray they doo violence to the law prophane the holy things and put not difference betwéene the holy and prophane Ezech. 22. What horrible things are these by which the wrath of the Lord was kindled But were they not still the daughter of Sion Reade for this the Lamentations of Ieremie After they were returned from the captiuitie the print of the rod being yet in their skrinne they were not fréed from such pollution for Malachi accuseth both Préests and people and that heinously They mixed themselues by Mariage with the Heathen and prophaned the Sabbaoth by kéeping market vpon it Esra 9. Nehe. 13. From the time that God raised them vp no mo Prophets vntill the comming of our Sauiour Christ their state grew woorse and worse not onely by Sects but also that the Préests prophaned the Temple Iohn 2. Math. 21. The Teachers which sat in Moyses chaire did expound the law corruptly in sundry points they mixed their leuen they were hypocrites blinde guides couetous and ambitious Matth. 5. and 15. and 16. and. 23. These resisted Christ and would excommunicate those that should confesse him Iohn 9. And yet the godly did not onely worship together with them in the Temple but also our Sauiour dooth will they should heare them teach Math. 23. If they had béene polluted by worshipping together with them he would haue commaunded to separate themselues This were enough to shew the grosse heresie of the Brownists in this point but yet I will adde somewhat of the Churches founded by the Apostles In the Church of Corinth Saint Paul reprooueth many things There were factions and schismes among them The Preachers did set foorth the Gospell with humane wisdome The Pastors and Gouernours did not execute the discipline but suffered the incestuous person They straue one with an other in the law before Heathen Iudges They feasted in the idol Temples at the feasts which were kept in honor of the idols and so were partakers of the cup of Deuils They prophaned the holye Supper of the Lorde they abused spirituall gifts There were among them which denied the resurrection of the dead A Brownist will héere replye that this Church did repent being reprehended by Saint Paul as he witnesseth of them 2. Cor. 7. I aunswer that they were Gods true Church before they repented 1. Cor. 1. and also that they did not all shew repentance as that second Epistle which he wrote vnto them dooth declare and especially these wordes I feare least when I come I shall not finde yee such as I would and I shall bee found such as you would not least there bee strife emulations wrath contentions backbitings whisperings rumors tumults least when I come againe my God abase me among yee and I shall bewaile many of those which haue sinned before and not repented for their vncleanesse fornication and wantonnesse which they haue committed 2. Corin. 12 vers 20. 21. The seauen Churches of Asia Reuel 1. were not in euery respect commended for in some of them the Nicholaitans were suffered and they that taught the doctrine of Balaam and a wicked woman which made her selfe a Prophetisse was suffered to teach and to seduce the seruants of God One Church neither hote nor colde Another had but a fewe in it which had not polluted themselues Reuel 2. and 3. Yet are these named the Churches I conclude therefore that the not seperating of some wicked ones out of the Churche although it be euill yet is not such an euill as destroyeth the Church and that the godly are not polluted by the wicked which come together with them vnto the publike exercises of the holy religion Thus haue I prooued your article or your accusation partly hereticall and partly false I haue also made manifest that if yée did accuse rightly yet the consequence is to be disalowed as hereticall in as much as we sée that very often it hath come to passe that heapes of vngodly men haue worshipped together with the godly and they not polluted by them It may be some will thinke hardly that I account it hereticall that the Brownist concludeth after this sorte they haue open sinners and men prophane in life which doo worship together with them as members of their Church