thou_o be_v not_o to_o be_v the_o author_n but_o the_o keeper_n not_o the_o institutor_n but_o a_o scholar_n not_o leadinge_n but_o follow_v so_o as_o by_o timothee_n the_o whole_a church_n be_v understand_v as_o the_o same_o author_n say_v or_o especial_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o pastor_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o church_n creat_v not_o any_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o teach_v only_o that_o which_o she_o have_v learn_v of_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 6._o from_o which_o follow_v that_o other_o thing_n which_o i_o mean_v to_o tell_v the_o knight_n for_o his_o learning_n which_o also_o i_o touch_v before_o in_o a_o word_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o point_n of_o doctrine_n before_o in_o controversy_n and_o undefined_a come_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n the_o doctrine_n be_v not_o therefore_o new_a because_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la or_o matter_n of_o faith_n now_o which_o it_o be_v not_o before_o as_o he_o most_o false_o and_o fond_o suppose_v for_o a_o undoubted_a truth_n and_o upon_o this_o his_o own_o idle_a fancy_n build_v many_o goodly_a argument_n like_v so_o many_o castle_n in_o the_o air_n for_o out_o of_o this_o he_o think_v it_o to_o follow_v that_o we_o vary_v in_o our_o doctrine_n that_o because_o forsooth_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n now_o the_o fide_fw-la which_o be_v not_o before_o and_o whereof_o doctor_n do_v dispute_v which_o see_v we_o may_v not_o now_o doubt_v of_o therefore_o the_o faith_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n alter_v but_o this_o show_v nothing_o but_o the_o poorness_n of_o his_o judgement_n for_o by_o this_o he_o may_v prove_v that_o the_o sun_n as_o it_o rise_v high_a and_o high_o and_o by_o spread_v his_o beam_n give_v light_n in_o some_o place_n att_o noon_n where_o it_o do_v not_o in_o the_o morning_n that_o therefore_o it_o be_v change_v in_o itself_o than_o which_o what_o can_v be_v more_o absurd_a 7._o and_o that_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o sun_n 6.9_o cant._n 6.9_o appear_v by_o that_o place_n of_o the_o canticle_n quae_fw-la est_fw-la ista_fw-la quae_fw-la progreditur_fw-la quasi_fw-la aurora_fw-la consurgens_fw-la pulchra_fw-la ut_fw-la luna_fw-la electa_fw-la ut_fw-la sol_fw-la terribilis_fw-la ut_fw-la castrorum_fw-la acies_fw-la ordinata_fw-la who_o be_v she_o that_o go_v forward_o as_o the_o morning_n rise_v fair_a as_o the_o moon_n choose_v as_o the_o sun_n terrible_a as_o a_o order_a army_n of_o tent_n which_o word_v no_o man_n ever_o doubt_v to_o be_v literal_o understand_v of_o the_o church_n even_o then_o as_o the_o sun_n may_v go_v spread_v his_o beam_n more_o and_o more_o with_o out_z increase_n or_o change_v of_o it_o own_o light_n in_o itself_o so_o may_v the_o church_n go_v more_o and_o more_o spread_v the_o beam_n of_o her_o divine_a faith_n with_o out_o increase_v or_o alteration_n of_o the_o faith_n in_o itself_o and_o as_o the_o sun_n beam_n may_v shine_v in_o a_o valley_n or_o room_n of_o a_o house_n where_o it_o do_v not_o shine_v before_o so_o may_v the_o church_n spread_v the_o light_n of_o her_o faith_n show_v such_o or_o such_o a_o point_n to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n which_o before_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o be_v or_o which_o though_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n in_o itself_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o us._n 8._o for_o more_o declaration_n whereof_o i_o may_v yet_o bring_v another_o more_o scholarly_o example_n which_o be_v of_o the_o principle_n of_o several_a science_n which_o be_v to_o be_v the_o premise_n in_o demonstrative_a argument_n of_o those_o science_n in_o which_o principle_n or_o premise_n be_v contain_v diverse_a truth_n which_o may_v be_v draw_v out_o of_o they_o by_o many_o several_a conclusion_n one_o follow_v of_o another_o these_o conclusion_n be_v truth_n in_o themselves_o before_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o appear_v unto_o i_o till_o i_o see_v the_o connexion_n they_o have_v with_o the_o premise_n and_o how_o they_o be_v contain_v in_o they_o and_o by_o the_o many_o several_a conclusion_n which_o be_v so_o draw_v the_o truth_n of_o those_o principle_n and_o premise_n do_v more_o show_v itself_o but_o not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o change_v in_o itself_o thereby_o even_o so_o we_o say_v in_o the_o prime_a principle_n of_o our_o faith_n reveal_v immediate_o to_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n and_o by_o they_o deliver_v unto_o the_o church_n be_v contain_v all_o truth_n which_o any_o way_n belong_v to_o our_o faith_n and_o whereby_o the_o church_n have_v in_o succeed_a age_n destroy_v several_a heresy_n as_o they_o have_v rise_v without_o create_v or_o coin_v new_a faith_n or_o alter_v the_o old_a but_o out_o of_o the_o old_a ground_n and_o premise_n draw_v those_o conclusion_n which_o destroy_v new_a heresy_n and_o show_v they_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o ancient_a faith_n and_o in_o that_o manner_n the_o church_n have_v grow_v and_o increase_v in_o knowledge_n by_o degree_n and_o shall_v still_o go_v grow_v and_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n 6._o greg._n moral_a lib._n 9_o cap_n 6._o as_o show_v s._n greg._n his_o discourse_n upon_o those_o word_n of_o job._n qui_fw-la facit_fw-la arcturum_fw-la &_o oriana_n &_o hyadas_n etc._n etc._n where_o he_o say_v thus_o vrgente_n mundi_fw-la sine_fw-la superna_fw-la scientia_fw-la proficit_fw-la &_o largius_fw-la cum_fw-la tempore_fw-la excrescit_fw-la as_o the_o world_n draw_v to_o a_o end_n the_o heavenly_a knowledge_n profit_v and_o with_o time_n increase_v wherein_o also_o she_o resemble_v our_o b._n saviour_n her_o chief_a lord_n and_o heavenly_a spouse_n who_o though_o in_o grace_n and_o knowlegde_v he_o never_o receive_v the_o least_o increase_n from_o the_o first_o instant_n of_o his_o conception_n 2.52_o luc_n 2.52_o yet_o the_o scripture_n say_v after_o proficiebat_fw-la sapientia_fw-la &_o aetate_fw-la &_o gratia_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o homines_fw-la to_o wit_n because_o he_o show_v it_o more_o in_o his_o word_n and_o action_n 9_o this_o be_v far_a confirm_v by_o the_o manner_n and_o practice_n which_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o father_n ever_o observe_v in_o and_o out_o of_o counsel_n in_o prove_v or_o define_v point_n of_o faith_n to_o wit_n by_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n belief_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o search_n whereof_o the_o holy_a church_n join_v humane_a industry_n with_o god_n holy_a grace_n and_o assistance_n for_o when_o any_o question_n or_o doubt_v of_o faith_n arise_v particular_a doctor_n several_o dispute_v and_o write_v thereof_o then_o if_o far_o need_n require_v it_o the_o holy_a church_n gather_v together_o her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n in_o a_o council_n to_o examine_v and_o discuss_v the_o matter_n more_o full_o as_o in_o that_o first_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n 15.6_o act._n 15.6_o whereof_o the_o scripture_n say_v conueneruntque_fw-la apostoli_fw-la &_o seniores_fw-la videre_fw-la de_fw-la verbo_fw-la hoc_fw-la the_o apostle_n ad_fw-la ancient_n assemble_v to_o consider_v of_o this_o word_n the_o pastor_n come_v so_o together_o and_o have_v the_o presence_n of_o our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o promise_n and_o his_o holy_a spirit_n out_o of_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a scripture_n and_o tradition_n join_v therewith_o the_o authoritye_n and_o interpretation_n of_o holy_a father_n and_o doctor_n out_o of_o praecedent_a time_n she_o do_v infallible_o resolve_v and_o determine_v the_o matter_n not_o as_o new_o but_o as_o ancient_a orthodox_n and_o derive_v from_o her_o forefather_n make_v that_o which_o be_v ever_o in_o itself_o a_o divine_a truth_n so_o to_o appear_v unto_o we_o that_o now_o we_o may_v not_o make_v far_a question_n thereof_o 10._o seq_n vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 27.28.29_o &_o seq_n and_o this_o be_v the_o common_a doctrine_n deliver_v by_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n i_o think_v it_o not_o amiss_o somewhat_o far_o to_o confirm_v and_o authorise_v the_o same_o by_o a_o excellent_a discourse_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o ancient_a father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n not_o recite_v his_o very_a word_n because_o it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o but_o only_o the_o substance_n which_o be_v this_o have_v prove_v by_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la out_o of_o s._n paul_n that_o a_o pastor_n priest_n preacher_n or_o doctor_n there_o mean_v by_o timothee_n must_v only_o deliver_v the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v deposit_v with_o he_o or_o in_o his_o hand_n not_o find_v out_o by_o he_o which_o he_o have_v receive_v not_o invent_v whereof_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v author_n or_o beginner_n but_o the_o keeper_n or_o guardian_n he_o say_v that_o if_o such_o a_o man_n have_v ability_n for_o it_o he_o may_v like_v another_o beseleel_n adorn_v set_v out_o and_o grace_v the_o precious_a jewel_n of_o divine_a faith_n by_o expound_v more_o clear_o that_o which_o before_o be_v believe_v more_o
own_o author_n and_o why_o may_v not_o he_o do_v the_o like_a to_o we_o for_o the_o reason_n be_v clean_o different_a they_o have_v no_o public_a authority_n which_o can_v define_v what_o be_v faith_n and_o what_o not_o but_o that_o be_v leave_v not_o only_o to_o every_o private_a doctor_n or_o minister_n but_o to_o every_o private_a lay_v man_n and_o woman_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o convince_a proof_n to_o urge_v one_o particular_a protestant_a doctor_n be_v authority_n against_o another_o there_o be_v not_o two_o among_o they_o of_o one_o opinion_n whole_o much_o less_o one_o bind_v to_o answer_n for_o the_o other_o yet_o we_o be_v fain_o and_o may_v with_o good_a reason_n use_v it_o because_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith_n wherewith_o we_o may_v urge_v they_o authority_n of_o church_n they_o have_v none_o scripture_n they_o have_v indeed_o but_o so_o mangle_v corrupt_a pervert_v by_o translation_n and_o misinterpret_v according_a to_o their_o own_o fancy_n that_o as_o they_o have_v it_o it_o be_v as_o good_a as_o nothing_o tradition_n they_o have_v none_o counsel_n they_o have_v not_o any_o among_o themselves_o nor_o will_v stand_v to_o we_o consent_v of_o father_n or_o schoolman_n they_o care_v not_o for_o consent_v of_o doctor_n they_o have_v not_o among_o themselves_o nor_o can_v have_v without_o a_o head_n neither_o if_o they_o have_v will_v any_o man_n think_v himself_o more_o bind_v by_o that_o then_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n what_o then_o be_v leave_v but_o to_o urge_v they_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o such_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v for_o their_o brethren_n but_o with_o we_o the_o case_n be_v far_o different_a for_o we_o have_v diverse_a infallible_a rule_n of_o faith_n though_o all_o with_o some_o reference_n to_o one_o principal_a rule_n as_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n which_o be_v out_o of_o controversy_n tradition_n or_o common_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n counsel_n either_o general_a or_o particular_a confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a the_o authority_n of_o that_o holy_a see_v itself_o define_v ex_fw-la cathedra_fw-la though_o without_o either_o general_a or_o particular_a council_n the_o common_a and_o uniform_a consent_n of_o ancient_a father_n or_o modern_a doctor_n and_o schoolman_n deliver_v any_o thing_n unto_o we_o as_o matter_n of_o faith_n 15._o all_o these_o six_o rule_n of_o faith_n we_o acknowledge_v wherewith_o let_v this_o knight_n or_o any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n urge_v we_o we_o flinch_v not_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o authority_n but_o be_v ready_a to_o make_v good_a whatsoever_o be_v teach_v any_o of_o these_o way_n what_o folly_n then_o be_v it_o for_o a_o man_n to_o stand_v urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o private_a man_n who_o may_v straggle_v out_o from_o the_o rest_n though_o to_o go_v far_o than_o we_o need_v in_o such_o great_a liberty_n as_o we_o give_v protestant_n we_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o single_a doctor_n in_o a_o point_n wherein_o he_o be_v not_o contradict_v by_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n or_o which_o other_o catholic_n do_v not_o whole_o disavow_v what_o more_o can_v a_o man_n desire_n and_o yet_o again_o though_o the_o knight_n or_o any_o other_o protestant_n shall_v bring_v such_o a_o single_a author_n for_o his_o opinion_n yet_o be_v there_o such_o a_o main_a difference_n between_o he_o and_o they_o that_o no_o protestant_n can_v just_o plead_v that_o single_a catholic_a author_n to_o be_v whole_o of_o his_o opinion_n or_o belief_n in_o that_o point_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o other_o wherein_o they_o differ_v for_o the_o protestant_n hold_v his_o doctrine_n stiff_o not_o mean_v in_o any_o case_n or_o for_o any_o authority_n to_o change_v or_o leave_v it_o which_o be_v it_o that_o that_o make_v a_o man_n proper_o a_o haeretique_n whereas_o the_o catholic_a ever_o hold_v it_o with_o indifferency_n ready_a to_o leave_v it_o whensoever_o the_o catholic_a church_n shall_v determine_v otherwise_o which_o if_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v be_v but_o content_a to_o do_v we_o will_v bear_v with_o all_o his_o error_n because_o than_o they_o will_v be_v soon_o amend_v what_o little_a help_n than_o be_v he_o like_v to_o have_v from_o catholic_a author_n or_o what_o likelihood_n be_v there_o for_o he_o to_o make_v good_a his_o paradox_n or_o rather_o his_o most_o absurd_a heresy_n out_o of_o our_o own_o cardinal_n bishop_n doctor_n schoolman_n etc._n etc._n who_o he_o put_v all_o in_o the_o plural_a number_n as_o if_o the_o number_n be_v to_o be_v very_o great_a whereas_o god_n know_v they_o come_v very_o poor_a and_o single_a as_o shall_v appear_v and_o some_o be_v cardinal_n of_o his_o own_o create_v only_o as_o i_o shall_v after_o show_v but_o this_o he_o do_v for_o credit_n of_o his_o cause_n though_o it_o be_v with_o loss_n of_o his_o own_o 16._o and_o all_o this_o which_o here_o i_o say_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v suppose_v that_o indeed_o he_o cite_v catholic_a author_n and_o cite_v they_o true_o as_o here_o he_o promise_v which_o promise_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v true_a cite_n how_o he_o perform_v i_o shall_v afterward_o make_v manifest_a here_o only_o i_o shall_v add_v a_o word_n concern_v his_o author_n who_o he_o promise_v we_o shall_v be_v catholic_n whereas_o indeed_o for_o the_o most_o part_n they_o be_v either_o know_v haeretique_n or_o some_o such_o man_n as_o though_o with_o much_o ado_n they_o may_v pass_v for_o catholic_n as_o erasmus_n cornelius_n agrippa_n cassander_n and_o the_o like_a yet_o they_o give_v themselves_o so_o much_o liberty_n in_o they_o writing_n as_o they_o come_v to_o be_v note_v for_o it_o and_o their_o work_n forbid_v of_o which_o i_o will_v not_o therefore_o make_v any_o account_n as_o no_o other_o catholic_n do_v but_o when_o i_o come_v to_o such_o authoritye_n as_o there_o be_v many_o in_o this_o book_n i_o mean_v to_o make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o the_o author_n be_v condemn_v or_o book_n forbid_v in_o the_o index_n librorum_fw-la prohibitorum_fw-la the_o table_n of_o forbid_a book_n wherein_o i_o can_v but_o note_v sir_n humphrey_n ill_a favour_v and_o dishonest_a deal_n in_o pretend_v to_o cite_v only_o our_o own_o doctor_n and_o schoolman_n and_o yet_o afterward_o obtrude_a such_o as_o he_o know_v to_o be_v subject_a to_o so_o main_n exception_n and_o so_o to_o be_v by_o we_o disavow_v and_o reject_v as_o incompetent_a judge_n or_o witness_n 17._o but_o there_o be_v no_o other_o to_o be_v expect_v at_o such_o a_o man_n hand_n and_o therefore_o i_o will_v neither_o look_v for_o better_a nor_o say_v more_o of_o it_o but_o by_o this_o occasion_n add_v a_o word_n or_o two_o concern_v the_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la which_o so_o much_o trouble_v the_o conscience_n of_o these_o man_n which_o be_v right_o understand_v no_o man_n of_o reason_n and_o judgement_n can_v be_v offend_v with_o it_o for_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o continuance_n of_o the_o same_o care_n which_o have_v be_v ever_o observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n for_o preserve_v of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o integrity_n of_o life_n from_o the_o corruption_n of_o haeretique_n and_o other_o wicked_a man_n who_o by_o book_n bring_v great_a prejudice_n both_o to_o faith_n and_o manner_n unless_o special_a care_n be_v use_v for_o praevent_v thereof_o of_o the_o necessity_n and_o justness_n of_o which_o course_n there_o be_v whole_a book_n write_v by_o diverse_a learned_a catholic_a doctor_n neither_o can_v any_o body_n dislike_v thereof_o but_o only_a haeretique_n who_o indeed_o find_v themselves_o mighty_o aggreive_v therewith_o as_o be_v by_o this_o course_n deprive_v of_o a_o chief_a mean_n of_o spread_v their_o wicked_a doctrine_n by_o book_n though_o indeed_o they_o have_v no_o more_o cause_n to_o complain_v then_o necromancer_n judiciary_n astrologer_n soothsayer_n witch_n magician_n and_o even_o bad_a catholic_n who_o publish_v naughty_a and_o lascivious_a book_n for_o this_o care_n of_o the_o church_n do_v extend_v to_o all_o whatsoever_o may_v be_v offensive_a or_o hurtful_a either_o to_o faith_n or_o good_a manner_n 18._o but_o because_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v needs_o have_v it_o that_o the_o bible_n be_v also_o forbid_a and_o the_o father_n writing_n appoint_v to_o be_v correct_v and_o raze_v i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o bible_n indeed_o it_o be_v not_o permit_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n to_o every_o body_n without_o any_o regard_n or_o distinction_n of_o person_n as_o it_o never_o be_v nor_o aught_o to_o be_v as_o be_v well_o prove_v by_o authority_n of_o father_n and_o reason_n in_o the_o preface_n of_o the_o rheims_n testament_n but_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o forbid_v but_o that_o it_o
so_o long_o as_o they_o have_v sufficient_a ground_n to_o believe_v it_o which_o never_o want_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o out_o of_o it_o be_v ever_o want_v by_o this_o any_o man_n may_v see_v whether_o this_o distinction_n of_o explicit_a and_o implicit_a faith_n do_v not_o stand_v with_o very_o great_a reason_n and_o consequent_o whether_o the_o knight_n who_o laugh_v thereat_o do_v not_o show_v himself_o most_o worthy_a of_o laughter_n 22._o especial_o if_o we_o add_v withal_o that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o this_o implicit_a faith_n that_o he_o speak_v against_o as_o divine_a faith_n in_o general_a for_o that_o he_o count_v implicit_a faith_n when_o a_o man_n be_v bind_v by_o a_o blind_a kind_n of_o obedience_n as_o he_o call_v it_o to_o submit_v his_o judgement_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v the_o true_a property_n of_o divine_a faith_n and_o that_o be_v it_o which_o he_o count_n simplicity_n and_o call_v it_o implicit_a faith_n to_o believe_v that_o whereof_o we_o understand_v not_o the_o reason_n but_o herein_o he_o destroy_v the_o very_a nature_n of_o faith_n express_o contradict_v s._n paul_n definition_n thereof_o which_o be_v this_o 11.1_o hebr_n 11.1_o faith_n be_v the_o substance_n of_o thing_n to_o be_v hope_v for_o a_o argument_n of_o thing_n not_o appear_v and_o s._n aug_n plain_o say_v that_o be_v faith_n to_o believe_v that_o which_o thou_o do_v not_o see_v and_z s._n greg._n add_v euang._n greg._n ho._n 36._o in_o euang._n that_o faith_n have_v no_o merit_n where_o humane_a reason_n give_v experience_n so_o as_o for_o a_o man_n to_o speak_v against_o this_o kind_n of_o implicit_a be_v plain_a infidelity_n and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v say_v no_o more_o of_o it_o but_o only_o suppose_v it_o as_o a_o most_o certain_a and_o common_o receive_v principle_n of_o the_o father_n and_o point_n of_o absolute_o necessary_a christian_a humility_n for_o a_o man_n so_o to_o submit_v his_o judgement_n in_o what_o he_o understand_v not_o i_o shall_v conclude_v with_o a_o word_n of_o vincent_n lerinensis_n wish_v such_o man_n as_o have_v suffer_v themselves_o out_o of_o presumption_n to_o be_v carry_v away_o with_o some_o novel_a opinion_n out_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o return_v thereunto_o by_o this_o humility_n of_o implicit_a faith_n in_o these_o word_n dediscant_fw-la bene_fw-la quod_fw-la didicerunt_fw-la non_fw-la bene_fw-la 25._o cap._n 25._o &_o ex_fw-la toto_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la dogmate_fw-it quod_fw-la intellectu_fw-la capi_fw-la potest_fw-la capiant_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la credant_fw-la let_v they_o unlearne_v well_o that_o which_o they_o have_v learn_v not_o well_o and_o out_o of_o the_o whole_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n let_v they_o conceive_v what_o can_v be_v conceive_v what_o can_v let_v they_o believe_v which_o authority_n alone_o be_v sufficient_a to_o warrant_v our_o distinction_n of_o explicit_a and_o implicit_a faith_n against_o all_o sir_n humphrey_n scornful_a laughter_n 2._o chap._n 2._o and_o so_o have_v note_v thus_o much_o in_o this_o place_n by_o occasion_n of_o his_o praeamble_n i_o come_v now_o to_o the_o examination_n of_o his_o section_n whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v with_o out_o cause_n bitter_a against_o the_o reform_a church_n as_o the_o knight_n affirm_v chapter_n ii_o 1._o the_o knight_n first_o section_n be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v without_o cause_n bitter_a against_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o she_o be_v bitter_a he_o prove_v because_o we_o style_v he_o and_o his_o not_o only_o by_o the_o common_a name_n of_o haeretique_n but_o also_o by_o other_o special_a reproachful_a epithet_n pertain_v to_o the_o several_a sect_n of_o zuinglius_fw-la luther_n caluin_n etc._n etc._n second_o because_o we_o accurse_v and_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o will_v not_o let_v they_o live_v with_o we_o whereas_o we_o admit_v jew_n and_o infidel_n that_o all_o this_o be_v without_o cause_n he_o prove_v first_o by_o a_o authority_n of_o theodoret_n which_o speak_v of_o a_o contention_n between_o two_o faction_n in_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n and_o the_o reason_n to_o allay_v it_o because_o say_v theodoret_n both_o part_n make_v one_o and_o the_o same_o confession_n of_o their_o faith_n for_o both_o maintain_v the_o creed_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n second_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o bellarmine_n who_o he_o make_v to_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n never_o propound_v as_o common_a article_n of_o faith_n other_o thing_n than_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o some_o few_o of_o the_o sacrament_n because_o these_o thing_n be_v simple_o necessary_a and_o profitable_a for_o all_o man_n the_o rest_n be_v such_o as_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v without_o they_o three_o he_o make_v it_o a_o undeniable_a truth_n that_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o the_o roman_a be_v two_o sister_n and_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n fail_v and_o become_v a_o harlott_n it_o be_v well_o do_v of_o his_o church_n to_o separate_v herself_o lest_o she_o may_v be_v partaker_n of_o her_o plague_n and_o so_o go_v on_o inveigh_v bitter_o against_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o the_o very_a end_n of_o the_o section_n whereof_o this_o be_v the_o whole_a substance_n which_o i_o have_v bring_v into_o this_o method_n the_o better_a to_o answer_n it_o 2._o that_o we_o catholic_n style_v the_o knight_n and_o his_o reformer_n by_o the_o common_a name_n of_o haeretique_n we_o deny_v not_o that_o some_o particular_a catholic_a author_n style_v some_o of_o they_o that_o be_v the_o zwinglians_n lutheran_n and_o other_o by_o other_o reproachful_a name_n we_o also_o deny_v not_o but_o why_o this_o knight_n shall_v complain_v as_o if_o he_o be_v injure_v in_o all_o the_o several_a name_n that_o be_v give_v to_o the_o several_a sect_n of_o haeretique_n i_o see_v not_o unless_o it_o so_o be_v that_o he_o be_v of_o all_o their_o several_a religion_n which_o yet_o i_o see_v not_o how_o he_o can_v be_v they_o be_v so_o many_o and_o so_o contrary_a among_o themselves_o but_o be_v he_o of_o one_o or_o other_o or_o more_o and_o let_v he_o but_o go_v into_o germany_n and_o profess_v himself_o a_o caluinist_n or_o a_o zuinglian_n he_o shall_v find_v so_o good_a entertainment_n and_o such_o gentle_a term_n at_o the_o lutheran_n hand_n as_o i_o dare_v bold_o say_v he_o will_v never_o complain_v more_o of_o the_o bitterness_n of_o catholic_n against_o he_o and_o his_o brethren_n for_o the_o word_n haeretique_n which_o be_v the_o worst_a of_o all_o other_o as_o contain_v all_o in_o itself_o he_o can_v but_o know_v that_o it_o have_v ever_o go_v with_o such_o as_o have_v hold_v new_a particular_a doctrine_n different_a from_o the_o common_a doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o therefore_o the_o word_n according_a to_o the_o etymology_n be_v no_o word_n of_o contumely_n but_o a_o word_n signify_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n and_o it_o be_v only_o grow_v by_o custom_n to_o be_v contumelious_a because_o the_o thing_n itself_o to_o wit_n heresy_n be_v the_o most_o detestable_a thing_n in_o the_o world_n if_o then_o the_o thing_n ot_fw-mi crime_n of_o heresy_n pertain_v to_o a_o man_n and_o that_o he_o be_v notorious_o guilty_a thereof_o i_o see_v not_o what_o great_a bitterness_n it_o be_v to_o give_v he_o the_o name_n of_o haeretique_n if_o i_o will_v i_o can_v urge_v his_o bitterness_n much_o more_o in_o the_o same_o kind_a and_o in_o this_o very_a section_n as_o for_o example_n where_o he_o call_v the_o catholic_a church_n a_o harlott_n the_o whore_n of_o babylon_n the_o pope_n antichrist_n catholic_n idolater_n and_o a_o great_a deal_n more_o but_o i_o let_v all_o that_o pass_v make_v only_o this_o answer_n that_o we_o do_v nothing_o in_o this_o matter_n of_o name_n which_o seem_v to_o he_o so_o great_a a_o point_n of_o bitterness_n but_o what_o we_o can_v warrant_v by_o very_o good_a authority_n and_o example_n even_o of_o scripture_n 11.15_o act._n 13.11_o 2._o cor._n 11.15_o s._n paul_n call_v that_o enemy_n of_o faith_n elymas_n the_o magician_n son_n of_o the_o devil_n enemy_n of_o all_o justice_n and_o false_a apostle_n in_o general_a that_o be_v haeretique_n he_o call_v the_o minister_n of_o satan_n in_o a_o other_o place_n jud._n philip._n 3.2_o 1._o io._n 2.18_o ep._n jud._n he_o call_v haeretique_n by_o the_o name_n of_o dog_n s._n john_n call_v they_o antichrist_n s._n jude_n be_v most_o vehement_a against_o they_o give_v they_o many_o bitter_a epithet_n and_o compare_v they_o to_o cain_n to_o balaam_n to_o core_n our_o saviour_n himself_o say_v of_o one_o of_o his_o disciple_n that_o he_o be_v a_o devil_n 6._o joan._n 6._o which_o he_o mean_v of_o judas_n who_o be_v ordinary_o and_o worthy_o rank_v among_o haeretique_n which_o consider_v sir_n humphrey_n you_o shall_v never_o
have_v stand_v complain_v of_o the_o word_n but_o free_v yourself_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o all_o have_v be_v well_o 3._o for_o that_o other_o point_n of_o bitterness_n that_o we_o accurse_v and_o excommunicate_v you_o and_o spare_v jew_n and_o infidel_n accuse_v we_o therein_o of_o great_a cruelty_n and_o bitterness_n you_o shall_v have_v remember_v s._n paul_n authority_n and_o example_n do_v not_o he_o excommunicate_v the_o incestuous_a corinthian_a and_o deliver_v he_o to_o the_o devil_n and_o yet_o spare_v jew_n and_o infidel_n he_o do_v and_o give_v the_o reason_n why_o he_o spare_v they_o to_o wit_n because_o he_o have_v no_o authority_n over_o they_o quid_fw-la mihi_fw-la de_fw-la ijs_fw-la qui_fw-la foris_fw-la sunt_fw-la iudicare_fw-la 5.12_o 1._o cor._n 5.12_o what_o have_v i_o to_o do_v to_o judge_v those_o that_o be_v without_o that_o be_v out_o of_o my_o jurisdiction_n but_o because_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n shall_v not_o likewise_o say_v that_o by_o privilege_n of_o your_o heresy_n you_o likewise_o exempt_v yourself_o 20._o 1._o timoth._n i._n 20._o you_o may_v remember_v how_o s._n paul_n in_o a_o other_o place_n deliver_v alexander_n and_o hymecraeus_n haeretique_n to_o satan_n which_o yet_o you_o cannott_n call_v bitterness_n but_o just_a severity_n unless_o you_o will_v also_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o condemn_v s._n paul_n of_o cruelty_n and_o bitterness_n which_o i_o presume_v you_o will_v not_o if_o then_o you_o and_o your_o fellow_n minister_n be_v haeretique_n as_o they_o be_v why_o shall_v you_o deny_v to_o undergo_v the_o same_o doom_n clear_a yourself_o of_o the_o heresy_n but_o complain_v not_o of_o the_o curse_n and_o excommunication_n it_o be_v and_o have_v ever_o be_v the_o just_a censure_n of_o the_o church_n against_o haeretique_n schismatic_n and_o all_o enormous_a and_o contumacious_a sinner_n we_o must_v not_o alter_v law_n for_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n though_o you_o alter_v faith_n at_o your_o pleasure_n 4._o now_o then_o let_v we_o see_v whether_o there_o be_v cause_n for_o the_o severity_n which_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v use_v by_o call_v our_o reformer_n haeretique_n and_o denounce_v they_o subject_a to_o anathema_n sir_n humphrey_n first_o reason_n to_o the_o contrary_n be_v out_o of_o theodoret_n history_n but_o that_o make_v nothing_o for_o he_o but_o rather_o quite_o contrary_a and_o withal_o give_v a_o taste_n in_o the_o very_a beginning_n how_o true_o and_o conformable_o to_o their_o mind_n he_o allege_v author_n theodoret_n speak_v of_o a_o schism_n division_n or_o dissension_n which_o long_o trouble_v the_o church_n of_o antioch_n about_o their_o bishop_n some_o take_v one_o to_o be_v their_o lawful_a bishop_n and_o communicate_v only_o with_o he_o and_o such_o as_o hold_v with_o he_o other_o in_o like_a sort_n with_o the_o other_o which_o contention_n dure_v not_o only_o during_o one_o bishop_n life_n but_o more_o each_o side_n choose_v a_o new_a one_o in_o place_n of_o their_o bishop_n decease_v his_o word_n be_v these_o speak_v of_o some_o bishop_n who_o gather_v together_o say_v that_o the_o church_n be_v to_o be_v bring_v to_o concord_n nam_fw-la constabat_fw-la etc._n etc._n for_o it_o be_v plain_a 4_o lib._n 3._o cap._n 4_o that_o they_o be_v not_o only_a impugn_a by_o the_o favourer_n of_o contrary_a doctrine_n but_o also_o that_o they_o be_v pull_v insunder_o by_o mutual_a dissension_n among_o themselves_o for_o at_o antioch_n the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n which_o follow_v sound_a doctrine_n be_v divide_v into_o two_o part_n for_o all_o who_o stand_v for_o the_o excellent_a man_n eustathius_n have_v separate_v themselves_o do_v perpetual_o make_v their_o meeting_n a_o part_n and_o they_o which_o stand_v for_o that_o admirable_a man_n meletius_n separate_v from_o the_o arian_n faction_n do_v celebrate_v the_o holy_a mystery_n in_o palaea_n so_o the_o place_n be_v call_v and_o yet_o be_v the_o confession_n of_o faith_n of_o both_o one_o and_o other_o the_o same_o for_o both_o company_n do_v defend_v the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n catch_v in_o tâ—e_v council_n of_o nice_a the_o contention_n be_v only_o of_o a_o other_o matter_n and_o out_o of_o the_o love_n which_o they_o do_v bear_v to_o their_o bishop_n neither_o can_v the_o death_n of_o the_o one_o take_v away_o the_o discord_n these_o and_o theodoret_n own_o word_n which_o be_v enough_o to_o show_v the_o case_n to_o be_v clean_o different_a there_o the_o contention_n be_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o faith_n or_o doctrine_n here_o it_o be_v there_o the_o catholic_n of_o both_o side_n though_o at_o variance_n among_o themselves_o for_o other_o matter_n yet_o in_o regard_n of_o faith_n they_o will_v have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o arrian_n so_o it_o be_v now_o with_o we_o catholic_n though_o there_o may_v be_v contention_n for_o other_o matter_n as_o for_o superiority_n extent_n of_o jurisdiction_n privilege_n exemption_n or_o the_o like_a yet_o all_o joint_o detest_v all_o haereticall_a doctrine_n there_o indeed_o both_o side_n embrace_v the_o nicene_n creed_n which_o be_v the_o only_a point_n in_o controversy_n at_o that_o time_n which_o now_o our_o reformer_n profess_v to_o believe_v but_o they_o differ_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o faith_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n whereof_o the_o reason_n be_v the_o same_o now_o as_o it_o be_v then_o of_o the_o creed_n of_o nice_a for_o that_o be_v against_o the_o heresy_n of_o those_o time_n and_o this_o against_o the_o heresy_n of_o these_o if_o then_o the_o knight_n find_v catholic_n disagree_v among_o themselves_o about_o other_o matter_n yet_o agree_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o faith_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n he_o may_v allege_v this_o authority_n of_o theodoret_n to_o allay_v the_o contention_n but_o for_o the_o matter_n between_o he_o and_o we_o it_o be_v whole_o impertinent_a and_o out_o of_o season_n and_o a_o wrong_n to_o theodoret_n himself_o to_o have_v his_o authority_n allege_v for_o persuade_v of_o concord_n with_o haeretique_n without_o their_o renounce_n of_o their_o heresy_n 5._o but_o a_o man_n may_v well_o have_v patience_n to_o see_v this_o author_n meaning_n abuse_v when_o he_o shall_v see_v both_o bellarmine_n meaning_n abuse_v and_o his_o word_n corrupt_v as_o i_o shall_v now_o show_v his_o word_n out_o of_o himself_o be_v these_o 11._o lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la cap._n 11._o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v first_o that_o in_o the_o christian_a doctrine_n as_o well_o of_o faith_n as_o manner_n there_o be_v some_o thing_n simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o all_o man_n as_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o some_o sacrament_n other_o thing_n be_v not_o so_o necessary_a as_o that_o without_o the_o explicit_a knowledge_n belief_n and_o profession_n of_o they_o a_o man_n may_v not_o be_v save_v so_o he_o have_v a_o ready_a will_n to_o receive_v and_o believe_v they_o when_o they_o shall_v be_v lauful_o propound_v unto_o he_o by_o the_o church_n thus_o bellarmine_n in_o one_o place_n and_o in_o another_o a_o little_a after_o again_o he_o say_v note_n second_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v preach_v to_o all_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v necessary_a for_o all_o but_o of_o other_o thing_n not_o all_o to_o all_o but_o some_o to_o all_o and_o some_o only_a to_o praelat_n bishop_n and_o priest_n so_o bellarmine_n by_o which_o any_o man_n may_v see_v how_o false_o and_o cunning_o the_o knigh_n have_v deal_v in_o cite_v this_o authority_n for_o i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o where_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o the_o apostle_n never_o propound_v as_o common_a article_n of_o faith_n other_o thing_n than_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o some_o few_o sacrament_n to_o begin_v first_o with_o the_o last_o word_n where_o do_v bellarmine_n say_v some_o few_o sacrament_n he_o say_v some_o sacrament_n indeed_o but_o few_o he_o say_v not_o which_o though_o it_o be_v not_o much_o yet_o i_o can_v think_v but_o sir_n humphrey_n have_v a_o meaning_n in_o it_o to_o make_v bellarmine_n symbolize_v with_o he_o in_o his_o paucity_n of_o sacrament_n second_o where_o do_v bellarmine_n say_v that_o the_o apostle_n propound_v the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o some_o sacrament_n as_o article_n of_o faith_n where_o find_v you_o that_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o make_v more_o article_n of_o faith_n now_o then_o ever_o any_o man_n do_v before_o the_o ten_o commandment_n be_v indeed_o to_o be_v believe_v but_o yet_o be_v they_o not_o so_o much_o matter_n of_o belief_n as_o practice_v not_o so_o much_o pertain_v to_o faith_n as_o to_o charity_n towards_o god_n and_o our_o neighbour_n and_o this_o bellarmine_n see_v very_o well_o when_o he_o say_v that_o in_o the_o christian_a doctrine_n as_o will_v of_o faith_n as_o manner_n something_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o
not_o much_o short_a of_o idolatry_n for_o tertull_n doubt_v not_o to_o aequal_a they_o nec_fw-la dubitare_fw-la quis_fw-la debet_fw-la neque_fw-la ab_fw-la idolatria_fw-la distare_fw-la haereses_fw-la 40._o tertul._n de_fw-fr praeser_fw-ge cap._n 40._o quum_fw-la &_o auctoris_fw-la &_o operis_fw-la eiusdem_fw-la sint_fw-la cvius_fw-la &_o idolatria_fw-la neither_o ought_v any_o man_n to_o doubt_n that_o heresy_n do_v not_o differ_v from_o idolatry_n since_o their_o author_n and_o work_n be_v the_o same_o which_o idolatry_n nay_o in_o some_o respect_v haeresy_n go_v beyond_o idolatry_n as_o s._n thomas_n well_o show_v and_o s._n hierome_n say_v absolute_o and_o without_o limitation_n esai_n 2.2_o q._n lib._n 7._o in_o esai_n nemo_fw-la tam_fw-la impius_fw-la est_fw-la quem_fw-la haereticus_fw-la impietate_fw-la non_fw-la uincat_fw-la there_o be_v no_o man_n so_o impious_a who_o a_o heretic_n do_v not_o surpass_v in_o impiety_n therefore_o your_o comfort_n be_v vanity_n since_o your_o profession_n be_v impiety_n and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o matter_n 16._o now_o if_o any_o man_n will_v but_o lend_v a_o ear_n he_o shall_v hear_v a_o fine_a conceit_n of_o you_o whereby_o to_o prove_v your_o faith_n ancient_a universal_a and_o what_o not_o that_o be_v by_o answer_v our_o question_n where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n in_o this_o manner_n of_o the_o four_o creed_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o apostle_n of_o nice_a of_o athanasius_n and_o pius_n 4._o you_o believe_v 3._o which_o be_v believe_v before_o luther_n of_o the_o 7._o sacrament_n you_o believe_v 2._o which_o we_o confess_v also_o to_o have_v be_v institute_v by_o christ_n of_o scripture_n you_o acknowledge_v 22._o book_n for_o canonical_a which_o we_o allow_v &_o which_o be_v so_o believe_v before_o luther_n tyme._n 19_o why_o rather_o 7._o counsel_n then_o 17._o or_o 19_o of_o the_o 7._o general_a counsel_n 4._o be_v confirm_v by_o parliament_n in_o england_n not_o call_v by_o luther_n the_o tradition_n universal_o receive_v and_o which_o we_o confess_v to_o be_v apostolical_a be_v derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n to_o you_o as_o you_o say_v not_o from_o luther_n the_o prayer_n in_o your_o common_a prayer_n book_n be_v the_o same_o say_v you_o in_o substance_n with_o our_o ancient_a liturgy_n not_o broach_v by_o luther_n the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n be_v from_o the_o apostle_n not_o from_o luther_n if_o therefore_o say_v you_o the_o 3._o creed_n the_o two_o principal_a sacrament_n the_o 22._o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n the_o four_o first_o general_n counsel_n the_o apostolic_a tradition_n the_o ancient_a liturgy_n the_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n be_v ancient_o &_o universal_o receive_v in_o all_o age_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n even_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n be_v it_o not_o a_o silly_a and_o senseless_a question_n to_o demand_v where_o our_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n all_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n knight_n and_o most_o part_n your_o very_a word_n wherein_o you_o seem_v to_o think_v you_o have_v so_o satisfy_v our_o question_n that_o in_o your_o judgement_n it_o be_v silly_a and_o senseless_a to_o demand_v it_o any_o more_o but_o it_o will_v easy_o appear_v on_o the_o contrary_a side_n what_o a_o silly_a &_o senseless_a thing_n it_o be_v for_o you_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o discourse_n to_o yourself_o and_o much_o more_o so_o to_o publish_v it_o to_o other_o man_n as_o if_o any_o body_n else_o have_v so_o little_a wit_n as_o to_o be_v please_v therewith_o for_o be_v it_o so_o that_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n be_v ancient_o teach_v as_o they_o be_v now_o teach_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n what_o follow_v that_o you_o have_v a_o church_n before_o luther_n nothing_o less_o for_o a_o church_n consist_v not_o of_o point_n of_o doctrine_n or_o faith_n only_o but_o much_o more_o of_o man_n profess_v such_o and_o such_o sacrament_n &_o rite_n such_o a_o faith_n &_o religion_n if_o therefore_o you_o will_v show_v we_o a_o church_n you_o must_v show_v we_o such_o a_o company_n of_o man_n which_o till_o you_o can_v show_v the_o question_n remain_v unanswear_v if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v the_o same_o man_n of_o which_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v then_o consist_v which_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v in_o that_o you_o tell_v we_o your_o church_n be_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n i_o answer_v that_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o as_o now_o since_o luther_n time_n you_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n make_v a_o church_n such_o as_o it_o be_v by_o yourselves_o so_o you_o must_v show_v a_o company_n of_o man_n in_o like_a manner_n distinct_a in_o former_a time_n from_o we_o and_o your_o antiquity_n be_v only_o to_o begin_v from_o such_o a_o time_n as_o you_o begin_v to_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n from_o we_o you_o must_v not_o think_v to_o stand_v and_o contend_v with_o we_o for_o antiquity_n and_o then_o pretend_v our_o antiquity_n to_o be_v you_o but_o you_o must_v show_v a_o distinct_a succession_n of_o bishop_n a_o distinct_a common_a wealth_n or_o people_n profess_v that_o faith_n only_o which_o you_o believe_v &_o practise_v those_o rite_n ceremony_n and_o sacrament_n only_a which_o you_o have_v when_o you_o have_v do_v this_o you_o may_v better_o demand_v what_o a_o silly_a &_o senseless_a question_n it_o be_v to_o ask_v where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n 17._o but_o because_o you_o mention_v your_o be_v in_o former_a age_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n not_o only_o here_o but_o else_o where_o often_o in_o this_o your_o treatise_n as_o if_o thereby_o you_o will_v make_v your_o church_n seem_v one_o and_o the_o same_o with_o we_o or_o at_o least_o to_o descend_v from_o we_o 36._o tertull._n de_fw-fr praesâ—r_fw-fr cap._n 36._o and_o so_o to_o participate_v of_o our_o visibility_n and_o universality_n i_o will_v allege_v you_o a_o say_n of_o tertullians_n which_o do_v so_o full_o answer_v the_o matter_n that_o you_o will_v take_v but_o little_a comfort_n in_o the_o manner_n of_o your_o descent_n thus_o it_o be_v tertullian_n have_v allege_v for_o his_o eight_o prescription_n against_o haeretique_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostolic_a church_n which_o then_o keep_v the_o very_a authentical_a letter_n write_v to_o they_o by_o the_o apostle_n and_o especial_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o he_o call_v happy_a for_o that_o to_o it_o the_o apostle_n pour_v forth_o all_o their_o whole_a doctrine_n together_o with_o their_o blood_n and_o there_o put_v down_o a_o brief_a sum_n of_o some_o special_a point_n thereof_o conclude_v in_o these_o word_n haec_fw-la est_fw-la institutio_fw-la non_fw-la dico_fw-la iam_fw-la quae_fw-la futuras_fw-la haereses_fw-la praenunciabat_fw-la sed_fw-la de_fw-la qua_fw-la haereses_fw-la prodierunt_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la ex_fw-la illa_fw-la ex_fw-la quo_fw-la factae_fw-la sunt_fw-la adversus_fw-la illum_fw-la etiam_fw-la de_fw-la oliva_fw-la nucleo_fw-la mitis_fw-la &_o opimae_fw-la &_o necessariae_fw-la asper_fw-la oleaster_n exoritur_fw-la etiam_fw-la de_fw-la papavere_fw-la fici_fw-la gratissimae_fw-la &_o suavissimae_fw-la ventosa_fw-la &_o vana_fw-la caprificus_fw-la exurgit_fw-la ita_fw-la &_o haereses_fw-la de_fw-la nostro_fw-la fructificaverunt_fw-la non_fw-la nostrae_fw-la degeneres_fw-la veritatis_fw-la grano_fw-la &_o mendacio_fw-la siluestre_n this_o be_v the_o institution_n i_o do_v not_o say_v now_o which_o do_v foretell_v heresy_n to_o come_v but_o out_o of_o which_o heresy_n have_v come_v but_o they_o be_v not_o of_o it_o from_o the_o time_n that_o they_o become_v against_o it_o even_o out_o of_o the_o kernel_n of_o the_o mild_a fat_a and_o necessary_a or_o profitable_a olive_n the_o sour_a bastard_n olive_n grow_v from_o the_o seed_n alsoe_o of_o the_o most_o pleasant_a and_o sweet_a figtree_n arise_v the_o windy_a and_o vain_a or_o empty_a wild_a figtree_n and_o so_o have_v heresy_n fructify_v out_o of_o we_o but_o they_o not_o we_o degenerate_v from_o the_o grain_n of_o truth_n and_o become_v wild_a by_o untruth_n or_o lie_v thus_o far_o tertullian_n acknowledge_v indeed_o that_o heresy_n have_v their_o beginning_n from_o we_o that_o be_v that_o the_o man_n that_o broach_v they_o come_v out_o of_o our_o church_n but_o that_o they_o be_v no_o more_o we_o when_o they_o begin_v once_o to_o be_v against_o us._n and_o that_o the_o dishonour_n thereof_o redound_v not_o to_o we_o but_o to_o themselves_o he_o declare_v by_o the_o two_o similitude_n of_o the_o olive_n and_o figgetree_n compare_v we_o to_o the_o true_a and_o fruitful_a tree_n and_o they_o to_o the_o bastard_n vain_a and_o wild_a tree_n issue_v out_o of_o the_o former_a all_o which_o if_o you_o consider_v well_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o will_v find_v it_o but_o a_o small_a honour_n for_o you_o to_o have_v come_v out_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n though_o you_o have_v lie_v never_o so_o long_o in_o the_o very_a bosom_n thereof_o as_o you_o
you_o must_v do_v before_o your_o communion_n communion_n annotat._n after_o the_o order_n of_o administringe_n the_o communion_n neither_o will_v it_o serve_v the_o turn_n to_o have_v one_o or_o two_o to_o bear_v the_o minister_n company_n but_o there_o must_v be_v a_o competent_a number_n for_o example_n say_v your_o book_n if_o the_o parish_n consist_v of_o 20._o person_n there_o must_v be_v 3._o or_o 4._o at_o least_o otherwise_o the_o minister_n must_v not_o communion_n it_o and_o by_o this_o rule_n a_o man_n may_v say_v proportionable_o if_o the_o parish_n have_v twenty_o hundred_o or_o 20000._o there_o shall_v be_v 3._o or_o 4._o thousand_o to_o communicate_v at_o once_o and_o if_o a_o sick_a body_n will_v receive_v he_o may_v not_o receive_v alone_o but_o he_o must_v have_v some_o body_n to_o bear_v he_o company_n and_o not_o only_o one_o or_o two_o but_o many_o or_o a_o competent_a number_n as_o your_o book_n say_v which_o therefore_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v according_a to_o 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alone_o be_v sufficient_a for_o all_o christian_n which_o he_o prove_v by_o those_o word_n of_o s._n paul_n i_o have_v not_o shun_v to_o declare_v unto_o you_o all_o the_o counsel_n of_o god_n 20._o act._n 20._o and_o that_o we_o may_v know_v he_o speak_v of_o the_o write_a word_n he_o bring_v bellarmine_n authority_n say_v that_o those_o thing_n be_v write_v which_o be_v by_o the_o apostle_n preach_v general_o to_o all_o and_o he_o be_v so_o confident_a against_o this_o point_n of_o the_o seven_o sacrament_n that_o he_o be_v content_a the_o curse_n shall_v light_v upon_o he_o if_o any_o learned_a man_n shall_v show_v it_o out_o of_o any_o father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n or_o any_o know_a author_n for_o about_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o christ_n this_o be_v his_o beginning_n whereat_o i_o will_v make_v a_o stay_n and_o answer_n not_o to_o take_v too_o much_o at_o once_o he_o think_v it_o then_o a_o foundation_n of_o atheism_n to_o say_v that_o if_o we_o take_v away_o the_o 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it_o be_v so_o still_o for_o as_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v then_o the_o most_o know_a tongue_n in_o which_o only_a the_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o public_o read_v so_o the_o same_o language_n be_v still_o use_v partly_o because_o they_o be_v sacred_a and_o partly_o because_o they_o be_v most_o know_v what_o then_o make_v that_o against_o our_o latin_a mass_n or_o rather_o be_v it_o not_o a_o proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o disproof_n of_o his_o novelty_n against_o image-worship_n he_o talk_v of_o the_o 2._o commandment_n and_o the_o hate_n of_o the_o jew_n against_o image_n he_o bring_v the_o testimony_n of_o some_o haeretique_n against_o they_o and_o the_o say_n of_o some_o one_o divine_a of_o the_o manner_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o reprehension_n of_o other_o against_o the_o abuse_n commit_v in_o the_o adoration_n of_o they_o out_o of_o all_o which_o set_v the_o testimony_n of_o haeretique_n a_o part_n i_o ask_v what_o he_o will_v conclude_v or_o how_o he_o 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a_o pair_n of_o spectacle_n for_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v to_o see_v his_o way_n withal_o or_o a_o answer_n to_o his_o book_n call_v via_fw-la tuta_fw-la a_o safe_a way_n wherein_o the_o book_n be_v show_v to_o be_v a_o labyrinthe_n of_o error_n and_o the_o author_n a_o blind_a guide_n by_o i._n r._n the_o child_n of_o israel_n say_v the_o way_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v not_o right_a what_o be_v not_o my_o way_n right_a o_o house_n of_o israel_n and_o not_o rather_o your_o way_n crooked_a ezech._n 18.29_o catholicae_fw-la fidei_fw-la regula_fw-la velut_fw-la via_fw-la est_fw-la quae_fw-la te_fw-la ducat_n ad_fw-la patriam_fw-la the_o rule_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n be_v as_o it_o be_v the_o way_n which_o may_v lead_v thou_o to_o thy_o country_n qui_fw-la praetergreditur_fw-la regulam_fw-la fidei_fw-la non_fw-la accedit_fw-la in_o via_fw-la sed_fw-la recedit_fw-la de_fw-la via_fw-la he_o that_o go_v beside_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n do_v not_o 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such_o as_o mean_v to_o be_v count_v catholic_n wherein_o i_o will_v far_o know_v of_o he_o what_o other_o difference_n there_o be_v but_o only_o that_o the_o creed_n of_o nice_a be_v make_v for_o declaration_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o divinity_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o this_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o declaration_n of_o all_o these_o point_n controvert_v by_o the_o haeretique_n of_o these_o time_n and_o yet_o in_o one_o thing_n more_o they_o agree_v that_o be_v that_o as_o the_o arrian_n of_o those_o time_n cry_v out_o against_o that_o creed_n as_o be_v new_a and_o have_v word_n not_o find_v in_o scripture_n for_o example_n consubstantiation_n so_o our_o protestant_n cry_v out_o against_o the_o trent_n profession_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o same_o reason_n of_o novelty_n and_o word_n not_o find_v in_o scripture_n as_o for_o example_n transubstantiation_n 3._o but_o to_o come_v near_o unto_o they_o they_o allow_v of_o the_o nicene_n 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obscure_o that_o posterity_n may_v rejoice_v at_o the_o clear_a knowledge_n of_o that_o which_o antiquity_n do_v reverence_n even_o before_o it_o come_v to_o be_v so_o know_v that_o in_o fine_a he_o must_v so_o theach_v which_o he_o have_v learned_a that_o though_o he_o deliver_v it_o in_o a_o new_a manner_n yet_o he_o deliver_v not_o any_o new_a matter_n and_o then_o ask_v a_o question_n by_o way_n of_o objection_n whether_o christian_a religion_n do_v not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o profit_n he_o answer_v yes_o very_o but_o in_o such_o manner_n as_o it_o may_v be_v true_o call_v increase_n not_o change_n for_o increase_n import_v a_o amplification_n or_o enlargement_n of_o a_o thing_n in_o itself_o change_n import_v a_o turn_n of_o one_o thing_n into_o a_o other_o and_o so_o he_o say_v the_o understanding_n knowledge_n and_o wisdom_n both_o of_o every_o man_n in_o particular_a and_o of_o the_o whole_a church_n in_o general_n may_v receive_v increase_n but_o so_o as_o to_o persist_v in_o same_o doctrine_n sense_n and_o judgement_n which_o he_o declare_v by_o the_o similitude_n of_o a_o man_n body_n which_o though_o it_o be_v great_a when_o he_o come_v to_o be_v a_o man_n then_o when_o he_o be_v a_o chile_n yet_o all_o the_o part_n and_o limb_n be_v the_o same_o so_o as_o though_o it_o receive_v increase_v yet_o no_o change_n the_o same_o he_o declare_v by_o another_o similitude_n of_o a_o grain_n of_o wheat_n cast_v into_o the_o ground_n which_o though_o it_o multiply_v in_o the_o growth_n yet_o it_o multiply_v only_o in_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o grain_n whereupon_o he_o conclude_v that_o the_o church_n be_v a_o diligent_a and_o wary_a keeper_n of_o the_o doctrine_n commit_v to_o her_o custody_n do_v not_o add_v diminish_v or_o any_o way_n change_n do_v not_o cut_v of_o what_o be_v necessary_a nor_o add_v any_o thing_n superfluous_a but_o with_o all_o industry_n so_o handle_v all_o ancient_a doctrine_n as_o if_o any_o have_v not_o receive_v their_o 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new_a so_o long_o as_o those_o it_o follow_v that_o he_o that_o deni_v the_o explication_n do_v deny_v the_o article_n and_o consequent_o frame_v unto_o himself_o a_o new_a belief_n 12._o and_o that_o the_o absurdity_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n argument_n may_v yet_o appear_v more_o manifest_o i_o add_v that_o any_o haeretique_n that_o ever_o be_v may_v by_o the_o very_a same_o manner_n of_o argument_n challenge_v antiquity_n to_o himself_o and_o accuse_v we_o of_o novelty_n for_o he_o may_v say_v such_o a_o thing_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la before_o such_o a_o council_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v new_a and_o that_o he_o believe_v only_o that_o which_o be_v believe_v before_o that_o council_n ergo_fw-la he_o believe_v the_o ancient_a faith_n which_o argument_n if_o it_o be_v good_a in_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v good_a in_o they_o and_o consequent_o he_o must_v disallow_v the_o decree_n of_o all_o counsel_n as_o novelty_n and_o approve_v all_o heresy_n for_o the_o ancient_a belief_n which_o be_v so_o great_a and_o manifest_a a_o absurdity_n he_o will_v not_o sure_a for_o shame_n admit_v and_o consequent_o must_v allow_v of_o vincentiu_n his_o authority_n and_o the_o answer_n out_o of_o he_o to_o wit_n that_o counsel_n in_o define_v matter_n of_o faith_n do_v not_o coin_v a_o new_a faith_n but_o declare_v explicate_v and_o define_v the_o old_a which_o that_o sir_n humphrey_n may_v the_o better_a conceive_v i_o shall_v here_o in_o a_o word_n urge_v he_o with_o a_o example_n of_o his_o own_o church_n thus_o the_o church_n of_o england_n admit_v of_o diverse_a book_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o canonical_a whereof_o there_o be_v doubt_n for_o three_o or_o four_o hundred_o year_n together_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n the_o second_o epistle_n of_o s._n peter_n the_o ep._n of_o s._n jude_n the_o apocalypse_n of_o s._n john_n and_o some_o other_o which_o be_v after_o admit_v for_o canonical_a now_o i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o upon_o the_o admittance_n of_o they_o there_o be_v any_o change_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o church_n or_o whether_o even_o those_o book_n have_v receive_v any_o change_n in_o themselves_o he_o can_v say_v they_o do_v and_o there_o by_o he_o may_v answer_v himself_o and_o see_v plain_o that_o the_o change_n which_o seem_v to_o be_v be_v not_o in_o the_o thing_n to_o be_v believe_v but_o in_o we_o that_o be_v to_o believe_v they_o because_o upon_o such_o definition_n or_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n we_o be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v they_o which_o it_o may_v be_v we_o be_v not_o before_o and_o this_o may_v suffice_v for_o this_o matter_n of_o new_a article_n of_o belief_n which_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v feign_v father_n upon_o us._n 13._o another_o thing_n which_o he_o much_o build_v upon_o and_o whereby_o he_o think_v to_o prevail_v against_o we_o in_o the_o authority_n of_o some_o particular_a doctor_n or_o schoolman_n of_o the_o church_n differ_v among_o themselves_o 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own_o and_o leave_v out_o some_o of_o he_o i_o may_v tax_v you_o with_o corrupt_v his_o meaning_n for_o your_o own_o purpose_n for_o by_o say_v that_o the_o explicit_a belief_n of_o these_o thing_n be_v necessary_a for_o all_o he_o do_v not_o mean_a as_o you_o will_v have_v he_o that_o it_o be_v free_a for_o any_o man_n to_o choose_v whether_o he_o will_v believe_v any_o thing_n else_o of_o those_o which_o the_o apostle_n preach_v for_o that_o be_v most_o false_a neither_o be_v it_o his_o meaning_n though_o he_o say_v those_o thing_n be_v necessary_a that_o therefore_o they_o alone_o be_v sufficient_a for_o all_o man_n and_o that_o no_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o know_v or_o believe_v explicit_o also_o any_o thing_n more_o for_o without_o question_v those_o thing_n which_o the_o apostle_n teach_v to_o praelat_n bishop_n and_o priest_n be_v to_o be_v believe_v by_o they_o explicit_o wherefore_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o ten_o comandment_n and_o some_o few_o 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faith_n therefore_o there_o be_v no_o cause_n to_o rank_n you_o with_o haeretique_n for_o this_o cognizance_n be_v not_o sufficient_a for_o a_o arrian_n with_o out_o the_o explication_n thereof_o in_o the_o nicene_n creed_n as_o may_v be_v gather_v out_o of_o theodoret_n before_o cite_v and_o so_o may_v i_o now_o say_v it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o distinguish_v a_o catholic_n from_o a_o lutheran_n caluinist_n protestant_n or_o other_o haeretique_n of_o these_o time_n without_o the_o explication_n of_o the_o trent_n profession_n of_o faith_n for_o this_o be_v now_o the_o touchstone_n to_o try_v who_o believe_v the_o apostle_n creed_n in_o deed_n and_o who_o in_o word_n only_o and_o this_o yourself_o must_v confess_v who_o term_v some_o sect_n haeretique_n and_o we_o catholic_n idolater_n nowithstand_v we_o and_o they_o profess_v the_o apostle_n creed_n which_o you_o call_v the_o cognizance_n of_o our_o faith_n 8._o now_o to_o that_o which_o you_o say_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o you_o be_v sister_n and_o that_o the_o roman_a play_v the_o harlott_n you_o go_v out_o of_o she_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o be_v so_o far_o from_o clear_v you_o from_o the_o note_n of_o haeresy_n that_o it_o do_v rather_o make_v you_o more_o guilty_a thereof_o your_o church_n indeed_o come_v out_o of_o we_o as_o all_o haeretical_a sect_n have_v ever_o come_v out_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o so_o say_v s._n john_n of_o haeretique_n ex_fw-la nobis_fw-la prodierunt_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la erant_fw-la ex_fw-la nobis_fw-la nam_fw-la si_fw-la fuissent_fw-la ex_fw-la nobis_fw-la permansissent_fw-la utique_fw-la nobiscum_fw-la sed_fw-la ut_fw-la manifesti_fw-la sint_fw-la quoniam_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la omnes_fw-la ex_fw-la nobis_fw-la 2.19_o 1._o io._n 2.19_o they_o go_v out_o of_o we_o but_o they_o be_v not_o of_o we_o for_o if_o they_o have_v be_v of_o we_o they_o will_v very_o have_v stay_v with_o we_o but_o that_o they_o may_v be_v manifest_a that_o they_o be_v not_o 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donatist_n who_o justify_v themselves_o as_o you_o sir_n knight_n justify_v your_o church_n much_o more_o of_o this_o may_v be_v say_v but_o this_o may_v serve_v to_o show_v you_o not_o to_o be_v in_o your_o right_a wit_n that_o brag_v of_o that_o which_o you_o ought_v most_o to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o and_o account_n that_o to_o make_v for_o you_o which_o make_v most_o against_o you_o 9_o for_o that_o which_o you_o talk_v of_o go_v out_o of_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o you_o will_v have_v man_n understand_v the_o catholic_a church_n as_o if_o you_o be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o from_o she_o do_v but_o once_o show_v we_o that_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o the_o sripture_n speak_v of_o be_v ever_o the_o true_a church_n and_o then_o you_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v say_v some_o what_o for_o your_o church_n departure_n from_o the_o roman_a which_o impudence_n itself_o can_v deny_v to_o have_v be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v bold_a indeed_o to_o say_v that_o babylon_n be_v a_o true_a church_n wherewith_o sometime_o the_o faithful_a do_v communicate_v but_o that_o after_o it_o be_v more_o deprave_a the_o faithful_a be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o of_o it_o but_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o where_o you_o read_v this_o what_o father_n what_o doctor_n what_o man_n ever_o take_v babylon_n in_o scripture_n to_o be_v use_v for_o the_o name_n of_o the_o true_a church_n s._n peter_n in_o one_o of_o his_o epistle_n speak_v of_o rome_n by_o the_o name_n of_o babylon_n out_o of_o which_o a_o multitude_n of_o father_n and_o doctor_n prove_v that_o saint_n peter_n be_v at_o rome_n and_o now_o you_o forsooth_o bring_v some_o of_o they_o cite_v by_o our_o author_n to_o that_o purpose_n to_o prove_v that_o by_o babylon_n be_v understand_v the_o true_a church_n abuse_v all_o those_o father_n most_o egregious_o among_o all_o who_o never_o one_o mean_v any_o such_o matter_n but_o only_o by_o babylon_n understand_v the_o temporal_a state_n and_o government_n of_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n as_o it_o be_v subject_a to_o those_o pagan_a tyrannize_a emperor_n which_o persecute_v the_o church_n and_o people_n of_o god_n wherein_o it_o do_v resemble_v that_o other_o ancient_a and_o true_a babylon_n which_o detain_v the_o jew_n than_o the_o true_a church_n and_o people_n of_o god_n in_o captivity_n and_o oppression_n which_o also_o s._n peter_n own_o word_n do_v sufficient_o show_v distinguish_v most_o plain_o babylon_n from_o the_o true_a church_n for_o he_o say_v thus_o 5.13_o 1._o pet._n 5.13_o ecclesia_fw-la quae_fw-la est_fw-la in_o babylone_a coëlecta_fw-la the_o church_n which_o be_v in_o babylon_n coelect_a salute_v you_o not_o that_o babylon_n be_v a_o true_a church_n as_o your_o word_n be_v sir_n humphrey_n 10._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o when_o she_o be_v deprave_a the_o faithful_a be_v will_v to_o go_v out_o of_o she_o that_o be_v out_o of_o she_o that_o be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v extreme_o mistake_v for_o if_o you_o mean_v any_o true_a babylon_n as_o that_o city_n of_o chaldaea_n or_o that_o other_o of_o egypt_n or_o babylon_n by_o similitude_n and_o likeness_n as_o be_v rome_n in_o time_n of_o the_o heathen_a emperor_n and_o as_o many_o interpreter_n think_v towards_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n in_o time_n of_o antichrist_n the_o city_n or_o temporal_a government_n thereof_o shall_v again_o become_v of_o which_o time_n that_o of_o the_o apocalypse_n be_v mean_v that_o the_o faithful_a shall_v fly_v for_o avoid_v of_o the_o cruelty_n and_o tyranny_n of_o the_o persecutor_n which_o shall_v then_o be_v more_o cruel_a than_o ever_o or_o if_o by_o babylon_n you_o mean_v the_o whole_a company_n of_o wicked_a man_n from_o the_o begin_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n as_o s._n aug._n take_v it_o throughout_o his_o great_a work_n de_fw-fr civet_n dei_fw-la and_o other_o father_n and_o doctor_n and_o many_o interpreter_n understand_v that_o place_n of_o the_o apocalypse_n 18._o if_o i_o say_v you_o mean_v it_o any_o of_o these_o way_n as_o no_o man_n of_o understand_v ever_o mean_v or_o understand_v it_o otherwise_o then_o be_v it_o never_o any_o true_a church_n and_o so_o the_o child_n and_o people_n of_o god_n may_v well_o be_v will_v to_o get_v out_o of_o it_o either_o local_o by_o motion_n of_o the_o body_n or_o spiritual_o by_o avoid_v the_o manner_n of_o the_o people_n not_o have_v any_o thing_n with_o they_o in_o their_o wicked_a way_n but_o if_o you_o mean_v as_o you_o express_v yourself_o that_o by_o babylon_n be_v understand_v the_o true_a church_n and_o that_o it_o may_v be_v deprave_a that_o be_v that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n notwithstanding_o all_o his_o promise_n for_o the_o perpetuity_n thereof_o as_o that_o he_o will_v be_v with_o it_o to_o the_o world_n end_n that_o it_o be_v build_v upon_o a_o rock_n that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o that_o he_o will_v send_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o be_v with_o it_o for_o ever_o notwithstanding_o that_o the_o church_n be_v his_o kingdom_n his_o inheritance_n his_o mystical_a body_n his_o spouse_n that_o notwithstanding_o all_o this_o i_o say_v it_o shall_v fail_v it_o shoull_a be_v deprave_a it_o shall_v be_v wiolate_v i_o know_v not_o what_o to_o say_v but_o to_o stop_n my_o ear_n against_o that_o mouth_n of_o blasphemy_n of_o you_o and_o herewith_o end_v this_o section_n the_o rest_n thereof_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bitter_a froth_n of_o a_o distemper_a stomach_n and_o unworthy_a of_o answer_n 3._o chap._n 3._o the_o examination_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n second_n and_o three_o section_n chapter_n iii_o 1._o in_o the_o second_o section_n sir_n humphrey_n labour_v to_o prove_v the_o contention_n betwixt_o the_o church_n as_o he_o call_v they_o to_o proceed_v original_o from_o we_o and_o this_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o our_o own_o the_o three_o section_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o corruption_n both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n confess_v by_o some_o of_o we_o and_o yet_o reformation_n deny_v by_o the_o pope_n both_o which_o be_v easy_o answer_v first_o by_o ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o his_o purpose_n suppose_v it_o be_v true_a do_v this_o show_n his_o church_n to_o have_v be_v always_o visible_a or_o we_o to_o have_v be_v at_o any_o time_n not_o visible_a he_o be_v not_o to_o stand_v upon_o matter_n of_o contention_n who_o be_v cause_n or_o not_o cause_v thereof_o or_o who_o will_v have_v mend_v who_o not_o for_o the_o error_n in_o faith_n which_o he_o seem_v to_o tax_v â—s_n withal_o in_o his_o three_o section_n if_o he_o can_v prove_v they_o he_o say_v somewhat_o indeed_o though_o yet_o not_o so_o full_o to_o his_o purpose_n for_o though_o he_o prove_v we_o to_o have_v have_v some_o error_n it_o do_v not_o so_o present_o follow_v that_o they_o of_o his_o side_n have_v have_v none_o or_o that_o therefore_o their_o church_n have_v be_v ever_o visible_a there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o require_v to_o it_o then_o so_o and_o though_o he_o shall_v prove_v some_o error_n to_o have_v be_v teach_v by_o some_o particular_a man_n or_o even_o in_o some_o country_n profess_v the_o catholic_a faith_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v fail_v in_o faith_n or_o cease_v to_o be_v visible_a 2._o second_o i_o answer_v to_o his_o second_o section_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o contention_n proceed_v from_o we_o which_o he_o undertake_v to_o prove_v by_o our_o own_o confession_n that_o in_o all_o this_o section_n he_o bring_v but_o four_o authority_n to_o wit_n cassander_n a_o canon_n of_o his_o english_a church_n out_o of_o the_o praeface_n to_o jewel_n work_n camden_n cite_v s._n bede_n plessy_n morney_n cite_v michael_n caesenas_n of_o all_o which_o only_a s._n bede_n be_v a_o catholic_a and_o even_o cite_v by_o the_o protestant_a camden_n and_o only_o for_o a_o story_n which_o he_o tell_v of_o one_o redwalde_a king_n of_o the_o east_n saxon_n who_o be_v first_o convert_v to_o christianity_n and_o after_o seduce_v by_o his_o wife_n have_v in_o the_o same_o church_n two_o altar_n one_o for_o christ_n religion_n another_o for_o the_o devil_n out_o of_o which_o this_o knight_n frame_v to_o himself_o a_o pretty_a fancy_n be_v desirous_a hereby_o to_o make_v man_n believe_v that_o the_o like_v happen_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o some_o adore_a god_n only_o other_o fall_v to_o adore_v saint_n and_o image_n and_o the_o like_a which_o fond_a conceit_n what_o answer_n can_v it_o deserve_v for_o it_o be_v but_o the_o bare_a say_n of_o one_o that_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o he_o say_v for_o otherwise_o how_o can_v he_o possible_o say_v such_o a_o thing_n of_o himself_o without_o say_v when_o where_o or_o how_o that_o happen_v
to_o we_o or_o ever_o say_v word_n in_o proof_n that_o the_o case_n be_v the_o same_o i_o may_v with_o as_o much_o reason_n out_o of_o this_o story_n of_o redwalde_n say_v as_o much_o of_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v that_o he_o and_o his_o protestant_n have_v build_v a_o new_a church_n a_o new_a faith_n erect_v a_o altar_n against_o a_o altar_n etc._n etc._n 3._o but_o as_o i_o be_v say_v of_o his_o author_n they_o be_v not_o many_o as_o you_o see_v much_o less_o have_v they_o any_o part_n among_o catholic_n for_o cassander_n michael_n de_fw-fr caesenas_n and_o philip_n morney_n be_v in_o the_o index_n of_o forbid_a book_n camden_n and_o his_o english_a canon_n writer_n be_v protestant_n but_o which_o be_v more_o strange_a not_o a_o man_n of_o these_o such_o as_o they_o be_v that_o say_v any_o thing_n of_o that_o which_o he_o pretend_v in_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n but_o only_o cassander_n who_o after_o the_o fashion_n of_o haretique_n speak_v of_o the_o pomp_n and_o pride_n of_o the_o clergy_n and_o that_o they_o will_v not_o hearken_v to_o the_o admonition_n of_o some_o godly_a man_n advise_v reformation_n these_o godly_a man_n he_o mean_v such_o as_o himself_o that_o be_v haeretique_n or_o next_o door_n to_o they_o though_o sir_n humphrey_n please_v often_o to_o call_v he_o a_o learned_a romanist_n so_o that_o all_o the_o cause_n that_o even_o this_o man_n allege_v of_o the_o contention_n be_v because_o the_o ecclesiastical_a person_n will_v not_o yield_v themselves_o to_o haeretique_n and_o let_v they_o have_v the_o order_n and_o dispose_n of_o all_o thing_n at_o their_o pleasure_n therefore_o they_o break_v away_o and_o fall_v into_o contention_n with_o the_o church_n what_o cause_n do_v clergy_n man_n give_v of_o contention_n in_o not_o submit_v themselves_o to_o their_o inferior_n and_o to_o man_n that_o have_v no_o authority_n over_o they_o or_o even_o if_o the_o counsel_n of_o these_o people_n be_v good_a as_o it_o be_v not_o and_o that_o clergy_n man_n think_v not_o good_a to_o follow_v it_o must_v they_o therefore_o present_o fall_v to_o schism_n and_o haeresy_n tear_v and_o rent_v the_o church_n by_o what_o law_n be_v clergy_n man_n bind_v to_o obey_v such_o fellow_n if_o in_o a_o civil_a commonwealth_n some_o great_a man_n shall_v dislike_v the_o government_n either_o because_o his_o enemy_n have_v the_o manage_n of_o matter_n or_o that_o he_o thimk_v he_o can_v do_v it_o better_o than_o they_o and_o presume_v to_o give_v counsel_n to_o the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n they_o shoull_n not_o follow_v it_o and_o that_o therefore_o he_o shall_v go_v from_o court_n make_v head_n and_o raise_v a_o rebellion_n in_o the_o common_a wealth_n who_o shall_v be_v count_v cause_n of_o this_o contention_n the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n or_o he_o if_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v judge_n he_o must_v say_v the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n if_o he_o will_v make_v good_a his_o man_n cassander_n discourse_n 4._o as_o for_o michael_n de_fw-fr caesena_n who_o the_o knight_n also_o call_v a_o learned_a friar_n it_o be_v true_a he_o be_v a_o friar_n and_o general_n of_o his_o order_n but_o for_o his_o learning_n i_o never_o hear_v any_o such_o commendation_n of_o it_o but_o we_o know_v why_o the_o knight_n praise_v he_o well_o be_v it_o so_o but_o the_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v and_o depose_v by_o the_o pope_n for_o his_o disobedience_n and_o rebellion_n he_o say_v that_o particular_a man_n which_o be_v john_n 22._o be_v a_o apostata_fw-la and_o a_o heretic_n and_o therefore_o no_o true_a pope_n but_o that_o he_o make_v two_o such_o church_n one_o of_o the_o wicked_a under_o the_o pope_n another_o of_o the_o good_a without_o any_o head_n as_o morney_n make_v he_o make_v and_o this_o knight_n out_o of_o he_o i_o find_v not_o in_o any_o good_a author_n but_o rather_o that_o he_o allow_v of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o he_o appeal_v from_o the_o pope_n sentence_n to_o it_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o coquus_fw-la his_o answer_n to_o morney_n mystery_n of_o iniquity_n pag._n 205._o to_o 2._o and_o in_o the_o table_n verbo_fw-la michael_n de_fw-fr coesena_n neither_o be_v he_o ever_o tax_v with_o any_o such_o haeresy_n 5._o his_o english_a church-canon_n command_v nothing_o to_o be_v teach_v as_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n and_o be_v collect_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o catholic_a bishop_n but_o what_o be_v that_o to_o the_o purpose_n how_o do_v this_o prove_v we_o to_o give_v the_o cause_n of_o contention_n he_o will_v say_v this_o prove_v his_o man_n to_o give_v none_o i_o answer_v that_o if_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o their_o canon_n and_o proceed_n be_v answerable_a to_o the_o say_n of_o this_o canon_n there_o will_v perhaps_o be_v somewhat_o less_o to_o do_v though_o it_o be_v not_o any_o way_n conformable_a to_o the_o scripture_n and_o doctrine_n of_o father_n for_o lay_v authority_n to_o make_v canon_n for_o clergy_n man_n and_o therefore_o the_o practice_n show_v in_o this_o canon_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n and_o so_o the_o 2._o section_n be_v answer_v 6._o the_o three_o section_n be_v of_o corruption_n both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n which_o the_o knight_n say_v we_o confess_v and_o yet_o deny_v to_o reform_v he_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o pisa_n where_o alexander_n the_o 5._o 20._o council_n pisan_n sess_v 20._o promise_v to_o attend_v to_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n acknowledge_v many_o thing_n amiss_o in_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n mass_n etc._n etc._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o matter_n of_o manner_n we_o willing_o acknowledge_v reformation_n to_o be_v needful_a and_o such_o it_o be_v that_o these_o two_o counsel_n speak_v of_o and_o have_v perform_v as_o be_v to_o beseene_v by_o their_o decree_n though_o the_o former_a be_v not_o of_o any_o great_a authority_n 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wilful_a corruption_n the_o same_o council_n likewise_o complain_v of_o many_o thing_n creep_v in_o in_o the_o celebration_n of_o mass_n by_o the_o fault_n of_o the_o time_n or_o carelessness_n and_o wickedness_n of_o man_n which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o dignity_n of_o so_o great_a a_o sacrifice_n the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n be_v right_o cite_v by_o he_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n perhaps_o to_o save_v his_o credit_n by_o sincerity_n so_o much_o promise_v in_o his_o epistle_n dedicatory_a but_o in_o the_o english_a which_o go_v in_o the_o text_n he_o foul_o corrupt_v they_o they_o be_v thus_o in_o latin_a cum_fw-la multa_fw-la irrepsisse_fw-la videantur_fw-la which_o in_o english_a be_v this_o see_v many_o thing_n seem_v to_o have_v creep_v in_o which_o the_o knight_n translate_v thus_o there_o be_v many_o error_n and_o corruption_n creep_v in_o to_o the_o mass_n which_o be_v a_o gross_a error_n and_o corruption_n in_o the_o knight_n the_o council_n speak_v only_o of_o abuse_n which_o be_v creep_v in_o not_o of_o error_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n the_o council_n likewise_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v the_o avarice_n of_o priest_n make_v such_o bargain_n for_o the_o say_n of_o mass_n as_o be_v not_o far_o from_o simony_n or_o at_o least_o filthy_a lucre_n it_o speak_v of_o the_o use_n of_o music_n where_o with_o some_o wantonness_n be_v mix_v as_o alsoe_o of_o certain_a mass_n or_o candle_n use_v in_o certain_a number_n that_o number_n proceed_v rather_o from_o superstition_n then_o true_a religion_n this_o be_v true_a so_o far_o 7._o but_o that_o be_v not_o true_a which_o the_o knight_n say_v that_o we_o deny_v a_o reformation_n of_o these_o thing_n for_o to_o what_o other_o end_n be_v they_o recount_v there_o but_o to_o be_v reform_v nay_o they_o be_v not_o
name_v but_o by_o way_n of_o forbid_v they_o and_o by_o way_n of_o command_a bishop_n to_o reform_v such_o thing_n even_o as_o delegate_n of_o the_o see_v apostolic_a where_o there_o be_v need_n which_o be_v so_o apparent_a that_o the_o knight_n be_v fain_o to_o confess_v it_o after_o in_o these_o word_n neither_o do_v these_o man_n seek_v reformation_n in_o manner_n only_o but_o in_o the_o doctrine_n itself_o wherein_o together_o with_o the_o contradiction_n of_o his_o own_o former_a lie_n he_o tell_v a_o new_a one_o to_o wit_n in_o say_v that_o we_o seek_v a_o reformation_n in_o the_o doctrine_n whereof_o he_o name_v some_o particular_a point_n as_o private_a mass_n latin_a service_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v most_o false_a for_o the_o doctrine_n be_v the_o same_o still_o and_o ever_o be_v that_o though_o the_o fruit_n be_v great_a when_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v with_o the_o priest_n sacramental_o yet_o the_o mass_n in_o that_o case_n be_v neither_o unlawful_a not_o be_v to_o be_v call_v private_a both_o because_o the_o people_n communicate_v spiritual_o and_o also_o because_o the_o mass_n be_v offer_v by_o the_o priest_n as_o the_o public_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n it_o wish_v indeed_o that_o the_o stander_n by_o do_v communicate_v not_o only_o spiritual_o but_o alsoe_o sacramental_o without_o ever_o mention_v the_o reform_a or_o rather_o deform_a church_n 8._o what_o error_n then_o do_v the_o council_n here_o acknowledge_v again_o the_o knight_n say_v that_o though_o the_o council_n do_v not_o allow_v the_o celebrate_n of_o mass_n in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n yet_o it_o command_v pastor_n and_o other_o that_o have_v care_n of_o soul_n to_o explicate_v and_o expound_v to_o the_o people_n some_o of_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v read_v in_o the_o mass_n and_o ask_v thus_o how_o near_o these_o man_n do_v come_v to_o our_o doctrine_n who_o do_v not_o perceive_v i_o answer_v that_o do_v not_o i_o sir_n humphrey_n nor_o i_o think_v any_o man_n else_o that_o have_v ordinary_a common_a sense_n you_o condemn_v all_o mass_n the_o council_n allow_v it_o you_o condemn_v private_a mass_n the_o council_n approve_v that_o which_o you_o call_v private_a mass_n but_o deni_v that_o it_o be_v so_o call_v private_a as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o the_o council_n speak_v of_o mass_n the_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o new_a law_n you_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v it_o speak_v of_o your_o sacrilegious_a supper_n in_o our_o mass_n and_o communion_n as_o the_o council_n teach_v be_v offer_v and_o distribute_v the_o true_a real_a and_o substantial_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n jesus_n and_o what_o it_o say_v hereof_o you_o must_v mad_o will_v make_v i_o believe_v be_v speak_v of_o your_o empty_a and_o imaginary_a communion_n the_o council_n teach_v that_o the_o mass_n be_v not_o general_o to_o be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n you_o will_v all_o public_a prayer_n so_o make_v and_o therefore_o condemn_v the_o catholic_a church_n for_o celebrate_v in_o latin_a which_o the_o council_n allow_v o_o madness_n of_o a_o man_n then_o to_o talk_v thus_o as_o if_o the_o council_n come_v near_o to_o he_o when_o it_o say_v yea_o to_o his_o nay_o and_o nay_o to_o his_o yea_o 9_o but_o have_v thus_o substantial_o prove_v the_o council_n to_o agree_v with_o he_o and_o find_v other_o place_n of_o the_o same_o so_o evident_o against_o he_o he_o will_v needs_o have_v the_o council_n contradict_v itself_o and_o for_o that_o end_n bring_v certain_a contradiction_n as_o he_o wise_o take_v they_o to_o be_v one_o be_v that_o the_o pope_n in_o his_o bull_n of_o profession_n of_o faith_n say_v that_o the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n be_v most_o wholesome_a for_o the_o people_n for_o which_o he_o may_v have_v cite_v also_o the_o council_n more_o thou_o once_o and_o that_o yet_o the_o council_n confess_v the_o scandal_n that_o come_v by_o they_o be_v very_o great_a with_o out_o hope_v of_o reformation_n which_o be_v not_o contradiction_n between_o the_o council_n and_o pope_n but_o a_o flat_a corruption_n of_o the_o knight_n the_o pope_n speak_v of_o one_o thing_n to_o wit_n indulgence_n in_o themselves_o the_o council_n in_o this_o place_n speak_v of_o the_o man_n that_o have_v the_o promulgation_n of_o they_o and_o the_o gather_n of_o the_o alm_n for_o prevent_v who_o avarice_n &_o abuse_n there_o have_v be_v so_o many_o remedy_n use_v former_o in_o other_o counsel_n but_o to_o none_o effect_n that_o this_o council_n think_v good_a to_o take_v that_o office_n whole_o out_o of_o such_o man_n hand_n and_o take_v another_o course_n with_o it_o what_o seem_a contradiction_n be_v here_o another_o of_o his_o contradiction_n be_v that_o the_o council_n approve_v those_o mass_n wherein_o the_o people_n do_v not_o communicate_v and_o yet_o wish_v that_o the_o people_n be_v so_o devoute_a as_o to_o communicate_v sacramental_o be_v not_o here_o a_o stout_a contradiction_n as_o also_o that_o the_o council_n approve_v mass_n in_o a_o un_fw-mi know_v tongue_n and_o yet_o will_v have_v the_o priest_n especial_o upon_o sunday_n and_o holiday_n to_o declare_v some_o of_o that_o which_o be_v read_v or_o some_o mystery_n of_o the_o holy_a mass_n do_v not_o these_o two_o agree_v very_o well_o i_o do_v not_o see_v what_o the_o man_n mean_v 10._o and_o to_o conclude_v this_o wise_a section_n he_o talk_v somewhat_o of_o reformation_n hinder_v by_o some_o principal_a man_n as_o one_o nicolas_n scomberg_n a_o dominican_n cardinal_n cite_v four_o or_o five_o most_o haeretical_a book_n namely_o forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n and_o among_o they_o the_o history_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n not_o name_v in_o the_o index_n because_o it_o come_v out_o since_o but_o write_v by_o a_o arche-haeretique_a and_o no_o less_o detest_v by_o catholic_n then_o any_o of_o the_o rest_n which_o i_o pass_v over_o as_o of_o no_o account_n nor_o allege_v to_o any_o purpose_n as_o for_o reformation_n who_o can_v say_v it_o be_v hinder_v but_o only_o by_o haeretique_n for_o what_o else_o have_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v but_o reform_v all_o abuse_n of_o manner_n where_o it_o be_v or_o can_v be_v receive_v and_o for_o error_n of_o faith_n teach_v by_o haeretique_n it_o have_v utter_o condemn_v they_o and_o banish_v they_o from_o the_o ear_n of_o all_o catholic_n what_o reformation_n then_o have_v it_o hinder_v but_o the_o haeretical_a reformation_n whereunto_o cardinal_n scomberg_n say_v well_o if_o you_o and_o your_o history_n of_o trent_n say_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o way_n to_o yield_v a_o iott_n to_o haeretique_n for_o it_o be_v not_o indeed_o for_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n have_v ever_o be_v to_o the_o contrary_a show_v thereby_o that_o the_o way_n to_o overcome_v haeresy_n be_v whole_o to_o resist_v it_o and_o though_o that_o thing_n which_o the_o haeretique_n teach_v or_o will_v have_v practise_v be_v before_o indifferent_a yet_o for_o their_o urge_v the_o same_o upon_o their_o haeretical_a ground_n it_o have_v be_v absolute_o forbid_v lest_o we_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v yield_v to_o they_o and_o so_o confirm_v they_o or_o draw_v other_o to_o believe_v they_o or_o their_o doctrine_n who_o to_o reprehend_v and_o contradict_v the_o catholic_a church_n many_o time_n make_v thing_n of_o indifferency_n to_o be_v of_o necessity_n that_o they_o forsooth_o may_v seem_v the_o only_a wiseman_n in_o the_o world_n and_o the_o church_n of_o god_n subject_n to_o error_n which_o i_o can_v prove_v by_o many_o example_n if_o need_n be_v and_o herewith_o i_o make_v a_o end_n of_o this_o chapter_n wherein_o i_o have_v disprove_v the_o knight_n and_o convince_v he_o of_o manifest_a falsehood_n in_o both_o the_o thing_n by_o he_o pretend_v show_v in_o the_o one_o that_o the_o council_n acknowledge_v not_o any_o corruption_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o by_o haeretique_n and_o in_o the_o other_o that_o for_o corruption_n of_o manner_n which_o it_o acknowledge_v it_o have_v use_v all_o possible_a mean_n to_o redress_v they_o of_o sir_n humphrey_n 4._o section_n whereof_o the_o title_n be_v this_o that_o many_o learned_a romanist_n convict_v by_o the_o evidence_n of_o truth_n either_o in_o part_n or_o in_o whole_a have_v renounce_v popery_n before_o their_o death_n chapter_n four_o 1._o i_o can_v here_o before_o i_o go_v far_o ask_v what_o this_o make_v for_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o knight_n his_o church_n for_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a and_o that_o we_o do_v yield_v he_o his_o say_n that_o many_o have_v fall_v from_o the_o catholic_a faith_n to_o be_v protestant_n as_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o many_o have_v for_o otherwise_o there_o have_v never_o be_v any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n do_v this_o make_v his_o church_n visible_a in_o former_a time_n or_o do_v
and_o therefore_o all_o your_o labour_n be_v lose_v when_o by_o similitude_n you_o labour_v to_o prove_v that_o we_o be_v not_o to_o put_v you_o to_o the_o proof_n of_o our_o error_n by_o name_v the_o author_n time_n and_o place_n for_o upon_o these_o circumstance_n depend_v the_o knowledge_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o disease_n or_o no_o which_o be_v our_o question_n neither_o be_v that_o authority_n of_o s._n aug._n to_o your_o purpose_n for_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o man_n fall_v into_o a_o pit_n of_o who_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o he_o be_v fall_v into_o it_o and_o though_o you_o will_v have_v it_o so_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o error_n as_o it_o be_v into_o a_o pit_n we_o say_v otherwise_o and_o of_o this_o be_v the_o question_n and_o this_o we_o will_v have_v you_o prove_v by_o assingn_v the_o author_n time_n &_o place_n of_o this_o change_n for_o till_o you_o can_v show_v that_o we_o say_v according_a to_o s._n aug._n rule_n that_o whatsoever_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v general_o believe_v or_o practice_n so_o as_o there_o can_v be_v no_o time_n assign_v when_o it_o begin_v it_o be_v to_o be_v take_v for_o a_o apostolical_a tradition_n such_o we_o say_v be_v all_o these_o thing_n which_o you_o be_v please_v only_o because_o they_o please_v you_o not_o to_o call_v error_n and_o it_o stand_v you_o therefore_o upon_o to_o prove_v when_o they_o begin_v else_o they_o must_v pass_v for_o apostolical_a tradition_n not_o for_o error_n as_o you_o will_v have_v they_o 31._o tert._n praescrip_n cap._n 31._o 3._o beside_o it_o be_v tertullians_n rule_n for_o discern_v of_o heresy_n from_o truth_n to_o see_v which_o go_v before_o &_o which_o come_v after_o that_o which_o go_v before_o be_v truth_n that_o which_o come_v after_o be_v error_n we_o say_v then_o that_o in_o all_o these_o thing_n we_o go_v before_o because_o we_o have_v antiquity_n they_o be_v thing_n that_o have_v be_v ever_o teach_v and_o practise_v we_o plead_v prescription_n from_o the_o beginning_n and_o we_o say_v and_o prove_v that_o you_o come_v after_o we_o assign_v you_o person_n time_n &_o place_n who_o have_v begin_v the_o change_n it_o follow_v they_o that_o we_o be_v true_a till_o you_o can_v show_v we_o time_n person_n and_o place_n when_o it_o begin_v as_o we_o show_v you_o not_o to_o be_v true_a by_o the_o same_o rule_n neither_o be_v it_o enough_o for_o you_o to_o say_v we_o be_v in_o error_n you_o must_v disprove_v we_o by_o show_v our_o prescription_n not_o to_o hold_v good_a which_o you_o can_v never_o do_v without_o assign_v of_o person_n time_n etc._n etc._n if_o you_o shall_v have_v a_o suit_n against_o a_o man_n in_o westminster-hall_n for_o land_n which_o he_o plead_v to_o have_v be_v he_o and_o his_o ancestor_n for_o so_o long_a time_n as_o be_v require_v by_o the_o law_n to_o make_v prescription_n and_o that_o you_o shall_v go_v about_o to_o disprove_v it_o without_o assign_v the_o time_n and_o manner_n but_o only_o by_o your_o own_o bare_a word_n will_v not_o every_o man_n laugh_v at_o you_o how_o much_o more_o in_o this_o case_n and_o yet_o you_o think_v you_o have_v speak_v wonderful_a wise_o and_o learned_o all_o this_o while_n 4._o which_o may_v yet_o appear_v more_o by_o that_o which_o follow_v of_o your_o comparison_n betwixt_o heresy_n and_o apostasy_n in_o which_o you_o attribute_v this_o late_a unto_o we_o but_o it_o seem_v hereby_o you_o little_o know_v what_o apostasy_n be_v wherefore_o to_o help_v you_o out_o apostasy_n be_v a_o defection_n or_o forsake_v of_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n and_o profession_n of_o christianity_n as_o all_o man_n understand_v it_o whereof_o sure_o you_o can_v tax_v we_o so_o long_o as_o we_o believe_v the_o apostle_n creed_n which_o you_o call_v the_o common_a cognizance_n of_o christianity_n and_o which_o you_o confess_v we_o to_o believe_v how_o then_o can_v we_o be_v apostata'e_n in_o no_o wise_a certain_o but_o if_o we_o err_v we_o err_v as_o heretic_n &_o if_o we_o be_v heretic_n you_o confess_v you_o must_v assign_v the_o person_n who_o first_o teach_v our_o heresye_n the_o time_n &_o place_n where_o &_o when_o they_o be_v first_o teach_v for_o so_o you_o say_v in_o plain_a term_n that_o heresy_n because_o it_o work_v open_o it_o may_v be_v discern_v the_o time_n and_o person_n know_v though_o you_o be_v somewhat_o various_a in_o this_o for_o you_o say_v a_o little_a before_o that_o when_o there_o be_v any_o heresy_n that_o do_v endanger_v the_o foundation_n or_o open_o disturb_v the_o church_n suppose_v herein_o that_o there_o be_v some_o secret_a heresye_n which_o do_v not_o so_o the_o father_n give_v warn_v thereof_o by_o letter_n but_o your_o supposition_n be_v false_a and_o foolish_a false_a in_o that_o you_o think_v any_o heresy_n not_o to_o endanger_v the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o least_o heresy_n that_o can_v be_v imagine_v overthrow_v all_o divine_a faith_n foolish_a in_o that_o you_o suppose_v some_o heresy_n to_o be_v so_o secret_a as_o not_o to_o disturb_v the_o church_n for_o if_o they_o be_v secret_a how_o come_v you_o to_o know_v they_o and_o to_o know_v they_o be_v heresy_n see_v they_o come_v to_o have_v the_o name_n of_o heresy_n only_o by_o condemnation_n of_o the_o church_n as_o for_o your_o last_o point_n of_o the_o father_n give_v warning_n by_o letter_n it_o be_v true_a indeed_o and_o thereto_o you_o may_v also_o have_v add_v if_o you_o have_v so_o please_v that_o the_o father_n do_v forbear_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v thing_n for_o heresy_n or_o to_o censure_v the_o author_n for_o haeretique_n binii_n v._o ep._n cyrill_n alex._n ad_fw-la caelest_n p_o p._n in_o conc._n ephes._n p._n 1._o cap._n 14._o to_o 1._o council_n ed._n post_n binii_n and_o consequent_o to_o send_v such_o letter_n till_o they_o have_v acquaint_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o have_v his_o judgement_n as_o be_v clear_a by_o s._n cyrill_n of_o alexandria_n in_o the_o case_n of_o nestorius_n 5._o but_o we_o have_v this_o at_o least_o out_o of_o your_o discourse_n that_o see_v you_o can_v produce_v no_o such_o letter_n against_o any_o point_n of_o those_o which_o you_o condemn_v we_o for_o that_o they_o do_v not_o endanger_v the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n if_o not_o what_o need_v you_o make_v this_o huge_a breach_n from_o we_o upon_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n in_o thing_n of_o no_o more_o moment_n or_o at_o least_o not_o of_o necessity_n in_o your_o judgement_n but_o we_o be_v not_o to_o require_v more_o reason_n of_o your_o do_n than_o your_o say_n and_o therefore_o to_o come_v to_o the_o parable_n of_o scripture_n wherein_o the_o enemy_n be_v say_v to_o have_v over_o sow_v his_o cockle_n in_o the_o night_n which_o parable_n you_o be_v please_v to_o expound_v of_o apostasy_n i_o answer_v that_o this_o parable_n be_v understand_v no_o less_o of_o haeresy_n than_o apostasy_n 31._o v._o tert._n de_fw-fr praesor_fw-la cap._n 31._o nay_o more_o for_o all_o the_o father_n and_o interpreter_n expound_v it_o of_o haeresy_n none_o that_o ever_o i_o hear_v of_o apostasy_n which_o therefore_o must_v be_v verify_v of_o all_o those_o which_o you_o acknowledge_v for_o open_a haeresye_n 28._o 6._o and_o therefore_o you_o be_v much_o out_o of_o the_o way_n when_o you_o think_v by_o that_o that_o you_o be_v not_o to_o be_v force_v to_o name_v the_o person_n place_n and_o time_n when_o where_o and_o by_o who_o our_o doctrine_n begin_v because_o as_o you_o say_v the_o seed_n be_v sow_v in_o the_o night_n and_o the_o person_n not_o know_v for_o in_o that_o parable_n you_o be_v to_o know_v that_o as_o christ_n be_v the_o goodman_n of_o the_o house_n who_o sow_v the_o good_a seed_n so_o the_o enemy_n that_o sow_v his_o cockle_n in_o the_o night_n be_v the_o devil_n who_o indeed_o work_v in_o the_o night_n and_o invisible_o and_o he_o be_v the_o one_o singular_a and_o principal_a enemy_n of_o christ_n and_o all_o mankind_n and_o he_o it_o be_v that_o sow_v all_o the_o several_a seed_n of_o diverse_a haeresye_n the_o field_n wherein_o he_o sow_v it_o be_v the_o world_n then_o it_o grow_v up_o and_o appear_v when_o that_o seed_n of_o erroneous_a doctrine_n be_v sow_v in_o the_o heart_n of_o wicked_a man_n and_o there_o take_v deep_a root_n break_v forth_o at_o last_o by_o their_o preach_n and_o teach_v thereof_o or_o this_o cokle_n be_v silij_fw-la mali_fw-la as_o the_o scripture_n itself_o say_v evil_a child_n than_o the_o servant_n of_o the_o goodman_n who_o be_v the_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n of_o his_o church_n present_o begin_v to_o complain_v thereof_o and_o wonder_v how_o it_o shall_v come_v etc._n etc._n 4._o so_o s._n aug._n lib._n q._n euang_n in_o math._n cap._n 11._o to_o 4._o this_o
be_v the_o true_a explication_n of_o this_o parable_n not_o according_a to_o my_o private_a sense_n but_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n and_o our_o bless_a saviour_n himself_o who_o voutsafe_v to_o explicate_v this_o parable_n unto_o we_o wherein_o as_o you_o see_v the_o goodman_n seruamt_n mark_v the_o grow_a of_o the_o cockle_n so_o must_v you_o tell_v we_o what_o pastor_n or_o doctor_n do_v ever_o note_v any_o such_o thing_n in_o any_o point_n of_o our_o doctrine_n but_o here_o sir_n humphrey_n what_o be_v to_o be_v think_v of_o you_o that_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o interpret_v scripture_n at_o your_o own_o pleasure_n and_o for_o your_o own_o end_n even_o then_o where_o our_o b._n saviour_n himself_o do_v explicate_v his_o own_o parable_n and_o mean_v thereof_o what_o i_o say_v may_v man_n think_v by_o this_o that_o you_o will_v do_v else_o where_o &_o so_o your_o chief_a gap_n or_o evasion_n for_o not_o assign_v the_o person_n time_n &_o place_n when_o our_o doctrine_n begin_v be_v stop_v and_o the_o exception_n remain_v still_o in_o full_a force_n to_o wit_n that_o you_o must_v assign_v the_o time_n place_n &_o person_n or_o else_o we_o acknowledge_v no_o error_n 7._o but_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o undeniable_a truth_n that_o some_o thing_n be_v condemn_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o erroneous_a and_o superstitious_a which_o now_o be_v establish_v for_o article_n of_o faith_n &_o this_o you_o prove_v by_o a_o place_n of_o s._n aug._n say_v that_o he_o know_v many_o worshipper_n of_o tomb_n and_o picture_n who_o the_o church_n condemn_v and_o seek_v to_o amend_v which_o yet_o you_o say_v be_v now_o establish_v for_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n but_o by_o your_o leave_n sir_n this_o your_o undeniable_a truth_n be_v a_o most_o deniable_a untruth_n for_o first_o s._n augustine_n time_n be_v a_o good_a while_n that_o be_v about_o one_o hundred_o year_n after_o the_o primitive_a church_n second_o that_o which_o s._n aug._n condemn_v to_o wit_n the_o superstition_n and_o heathenish_a worship_n of_o dead_a and_o perhaps_o wicked_a man_n tomb_n and_o picture_n use_v by_o some_o bad_a christian_n be_v not_o approve_v by_o the_o nicene_n and_o trent_n counsel_n but_o the_o religious_a worship_n of_o saint_n image_n &_o relic_n which_o s._n aug._n himself_o practise_v 4._o bell._n the_o reliq_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n with_o who_o alsoe_o you_o may_v find_v other_o good_a solution_n of_o this_o place_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o can_v but_o have_v see_v and_o consequent_o you_o can_v but_o know_v that_o your_o undeniable_a truth_n be_v flat_o deny_v by_o he_o and_o all_o catholic_n 8._o diverse_a other_o thing_n as_o the_o primacy_n of_o s._n peter_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a justification_n mass_n monastery_n caeremony_n feast_n image_n you_o say_v be_v otherwise_o now_o use_v then_o at_o first_o institute_v which_o for_o these_o five_o last_o to_o wit_n mass_n monastery_n etc._n etc._n you_o prove_v out_o of_o one_o joannes_n ferus_fw-la a_o friar_n a_o man_n much_o in_o your_o book_n and_o the_o book_n of_o all_o your_o minister_n but_o not_o in_o any_o of_o we_o but_o only_o the_o roman_a index_n of_o forbid_v book_n and_o therefore_o of_o no_o authority_n or_o account_n with_o us._n for_o the_o rest_n of_o these_o point_n we_o have_v nothing_o but_o your_o bare_a word_n &_o surmise_n which_o be_v but_o a_o bare_a proof_n &_o not_o worth_a the_o answer_n 9_o after_o this_o the_o knight_n think_v to_o come_v upon_o we_o another_o way_n say_v that_o our_o own_o author_n who_o have_v seek_v the_o time_n and_o beginner_n of_o our_o error_n as_o he_o be_v please_v to_o call_v they_o confess_v a_o alteration_n though_o they_o do_v not_o find_v when_o it_o begin_v for_o restraint_n of_o priest_n marriage_n he_o say_v that_o marius_n can_v find_v when_o it_o come_v in_o yet_o after_o he_o bring_v polidore_n virgil_n say_v that_o priest_n marriage_n be_v not_o altogether_o forbid_v till_o the_o time_n of_o gregory_n the_o 7._o and_o this_o doctrine_n our_o knight_n be_v please_v to_o make_v all_o one_o with_o that_o absolute_a forbid_v of_o marriage_n which_o s._n paul_n reckon_v among_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n for_o s._n paule_n authority_n it_o have_v be_v answer_v more_o often_o then_o the_o knight_n have_v finger_n and_o toe_n and_o every_o child_n may_v see_v the_o difference_n between_o forbid_v of_o marriage_n general_o to_o all_o sort_n as_o a_o thing_n evil_n in_o itself_o and_o unlawful_a and_o forbid_a marriage_n in_o one_o particular_a state_n or_o profession_n to_o which_o no_o man_n be_v bind_v but_o be_v leave_v free_a whither_o he_o will_v embrace_v it_o with_o this_o condition_n or_o not_o and_o this_o not_o because_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n evil_n in_o itself_o but_o because_o it_o less_o agree_v with_o the_o holiness_n which_o be_v require_v for_o the_o exercise_n of_o priestly_a function_n for_o polydore_n virgil_n it_o be_v true_a he_o say_v as_o the_o knight_n tell_v we_o and_o eveâ—_o as_o much_o more_o beside_o as_o any_o haeretique_n can_v say_v of_o that_o matter_n but_o it_o boot_v not_o that_o work_n of_o his_o de_fw-la rerum_fw-la inurn_v â—oâ—â—â—â—_n be_v a_o forbid_a book_n 19_o conc._n nic._n can_v 3._o carthag_a 2._o can_n 2._o v._o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr cler_n cap._n 19_o and_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v most_o evident_o false_a as_o appear_v by_o infinite_a testimony_n but_o particular_o by_o a_o canon_n of_o that_o great_a nicene_n council_n 800._o year_n before_o gregory_n the_o 7._o his_o tyme._n and_o the_o 2._o council_n of_o carthage_n which_o testify_v it_o as_o a_o thing_n teach_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o observe_v by_o antiquity_n the_o knight_n may_v find_v more_o in_o bellarmine_n for_o proof_n of_o this_o point_n here_o i_o only_o ask_v how_o he_o make_v his_o author_n hang_v together_o marius_n can_v find_v the_o beginning_n polydore_n find_v it_o and_o yet_o both_o for_o the_o knight_n purpose_n forsooth_o but_o for_o marius_n his_o authority_n it_o be_v nothing_o against_o we_o but_o for_o us._n for_o it_o follow_v by_o s._n augustine_n rule_n that_o because_o it_o be_v practise_v and_o teach_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n with_o out_o be_v know_v when_o it_o begin_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o apostolical_a tradition_n 10._o another_o error_n as_o he_o say_v be_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n wherein_o it_o be_v to_o be_v wonder_v say_v erasmus_n as_o the_o knight_n cit_v he_o how_o the_o church_n be_v alter_v but_o erasmus_n be_v no_o author_n for_o we_o to_o answer_n he_o be_v brand_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n neither_o need_v i_o say_v more_o of_o the_o matter_n itself_o in_o this_o place_n a_o three_o error_n of_o we_o as_o he_o pretend_v be_v communion_n in_o one_o kind_n for_o which_o he_o cit_v val._n twice_o once_o say_v it_o be_v not_o know_v when_o it_o first_o get_v foot_v in_o the_o church_n another_o time_n that_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n begin_v to_o be_v general_o receive_v but_o a_o little_a before_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n which_o i_o see_v not_o to_o what_o purpose_n they_o be_v if_o they_o be_v right_o cite_v as_o the_o former_a be_v not_o for_o val._n have_v thus_o much_o when_o that_o custom_n begin_v in_o some_o church_n 16._o val._n the_o leg_n usu_fw-la euch._n cap._n 16._o it_o appear_v not_o but_o that_o there_o have_v be_v some_o use_n of_o one_o kind_n ever_o from_o the_o beginning_n i_o show_v before_o so_o valencia_n what_o do_v this_o make_v for_o the_o knight_n nay_o do_v it_o not_o make_v against_o he_o why_o else_o shall_v he_o corrupt_v and_o mangle_v it_o do_v not_o valencia_n say_v he_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o this_o kind_n of_o communion_n be_v somewhat_o use_v from_o the_o beginning_n and_o that_o which_o he_o say_v of_o the_o not_o appear_v when_o it_o begin_v be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n but_o of_o some_o particular_a church_n beside_o for_o a_o final_a answer_n i_o say_v it_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n but_o practice_n the_o doctrine_n have_v ever_o be_v and_o be_v still_o the_o same_o of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n as_o the_o church_n shall_v ordain_v though_o upon_o good_a reason_n the_o practice_n have_v change_v according_a to_o the_o diversity_n and_o necessity_n of_o tyme._n with_o all_o therefore_o that_o ever_o he_o can_v do_v he_o can_v not_o refute_v that_o argument_n which_o we_o make_v against_o he_o and_o he_o that_o our_o doctrine_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tax_v of_o error_n so_o long_o as_o they_o can_v show_v when_o where_o and_o by_o who_o it_o begin_v as_o we_o can_v and_o do_v every_o day_n of_o
they_o and_o their_o doctrine_n 11._o but_o because_o it_o be_v ordinary_a with_o these_o man_n to_o charge_v we_o with_o this_o same_o secret_a apostasy_n and_o defection_n though_o they_o can_v tell_v when_o nor_o how_o it_o have_v come_v i_o shall_v here_o put_v this_o knight_n in_o mind_n of_o two_o convince_a argument_n to_o the_o contrary_a bring_v by_o the_o catholic_a divine_a that_o answer_v that_o part_n of_o my_o lo_o etc._n answ_n to_o cook_n report_n ep_v dedicat_fw-la n._n 22._o etc._n etc._n cooke_n report_n before_o cite_v by_o this_o knight_n to_o convince_v the_o folly_n and_o vanity_n of_o a_o certain_a similitude_n of_o a_o wedge_n of_o gold_n that_o be_v dissolve_v and_o mingle_v with_o other_o metal_n brass_n tin_n &c_n &c_n bring_v by_o sir_n edward_n to_o prove_v the_o dissolution_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n by_o error_n and_o innovation_n just_a as_o this_o knight_n talk_v one_o of_o the_o argument_n be_v theological_a the_o other_o moral_a the_o first_o that_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o true_a mother_n church_n which_o both_o my_o lord_n cook_n our_o knight_n and_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o they_o confess_v than_o be_v all_o the_o prediction_n &_o promise_n of_o the_o prophet_n for_o the_o greatness_n eminency_n honour_n certainty_n and_o flourish_a perpetuity_n of_o the_o say_a church_n fulfil_v in_o she_o and_o christ_n peculiar_a promise_n in_o like_a manner_n that_o he_o will_v be_v to_o the_o world_n end_n with_o she_o that_o hell_n gate_n shall_v never_o prevail_v against_o she_o etc._n etc._n be_v also_o perform_v in_o she_o for_o so_o many_o hundred_o year_n as_o they_o confess_v she_o to_o have_v continue_v in_o her_o purity_n whereof_o ensue_v that_o either_o god_n be_v not_o able_a to_o perform_v his_o promise_n or_o else_o it_o can_v be_v conceive_v without_o impiety_n that_o this_o flourish_a kingdom_n and_o queen_n of_o the_o world_n shall_v be_v so_o dissolve_v and_o mingle_v with_o brass_n tin_n copper_n shall_v be_v so_o corrupt_v with_o error_n and_o innovation_n as_o to_o fall_v away_o by_o apostasy_n this_o be_v the_o theological_a argument_n which_o may_v be_v read_v there_o more_o at_o large_a 12._o the_o moral_n be_v that_o christ_n have_v purchase_v his_o church_n at_o so_o dear_a a_o rate_n as_o be_v the_o shed_n of_o his_o blood_n and_o have_v set_v over_o it_o so_o many_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n to_o keep_v continual_a watch_n how_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o it_o shall_v fall_v away_o and_o decay_v without_o any_o one_o of_o all_o these_o watchman_fw-fr once_o open_v his_o mouth_n to_o resist_v or_o testify_v this_o change_n to_o any_o wise_a man_n this_o may_v true_o seem_v as_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n whole_o impossible_a of_o this_o also_o he_o may_v see_v a_o large_a &_o excellent_a discourse_n in_o the_o same_o place_n 13._o but_o not_o to_o detain_v myself_o long_a in_o it_o i_o will_v here_o only_o represent_v a_o consideration_n of_o tertullian_n suppose_v that_o this_o so_o impossible_a a_o thing_n shall_v happen_v go_v too_o say_v he_o be_v it_o so_o let_v all_o have_v err_v 28._o praescr_n cap._n 28._o let_v the_o apostle_n be_v deceive_v in_o his_o testimony_n which_o he_o give_v of_o the_o faith_n of_o some_o church_n be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v not_o regard_v any_o church_n so_o as_o to_o lead_v it_o into_o truth_n though_o send_v by_o christ_n for_o this_o end_n and_o desire_v of_o the_o father_n to_o be_v the_o teacher_n of_o truth_n be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o steward_n of_o god_n the_o vicar_n of_o christ_n have_v neglect_v his_o charge_n suffer_v the_o church_n to_o understand_v otherwise_o to_o believe_v otherwise_o then_o he_o that_o be_v christ_n preach_v by_o his_o apostle_n what_o be_v it_o likely_a that_o so_o many_o and_o so_o great_a shall_v err_v all_o in_o one_o belief_n among_o many_o several_a event_n there_o be_v not_o one_o issue_n mark_v here_o one_o steward_n of_o god_n household_n one_o vicar_n 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say_v out_o of_o this_o book_n and_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o first_o the_o knight_n do_v not_o show_v we_o any_o authority_n for_o this_o book_n or_o that_o s._n anselme_n have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v with_o it_o nor_o tell_v we_o of_o any_o ancient_a edition_n before_o the_o year_n 1556._o but_o only_a a_o mention_n thereof_o by_o cassâ—â—der_n a_o classical_a author_n indeed_o and_o of_o the_o first_o class_n in_o the_o index_n librorum_fw-la prohibitorum_fw-la in_o a_o appendix_n alsoe_o to_o a_o forbid_a book_n false_o call_v io._n roffensis_n de_fw-fr fiducia_fw-la &_o misericordia_fw-la dei_fw-la than_o which_o he_o can_v have_v say_v nothing_o more_o to_o disgrace_v it_o 2._o beside_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la of_o the_o spanish_a inquisition_n will_v those_o word_n of_o comfort_n as_o he_o call_v they_o speak_v by_o the_o priest_n to_o be_v blot_v out_o which_o be_v answer_n enough_o see_v the_o knight_n be_v to_o 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this_o point_n alone_o nor_o do_v campian_n mean_a that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o man_n that_o do_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o any_o one_o of_o your_o erroneous_a point_n but_o that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o house_n village_n or_o city_n that_o do_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o your_o whole_a faith_n and_o religion_n or_o make_v the_o same_o church_n with_o you_o and_o for_o the_o mangling_fw-mi and_o raze_v one_o of_o aelfrick_n latin_a epistle_n wherewith_o you_o charge_v we_o first_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o like_a by_o this_o that_o he_o say_v in_o his_o homily_n wherewith_o you_o say_v the_o epistle_n agree_v that_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n against_o we_o and_o if_o there_o be_v know_v you_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o our_o fashion_n to_o deal_v so_o with_o author_n but_o if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n we_o do_v what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v public_o as_o have_v authority_n and_o know_v what_o we_o do_v correct_v modern_a author_n in_o what_o they_o err_v &_o for_o ancient_a author_n note_v only_o what_o be_v amiss_o 4._o v._o reg_fw-la indi_fw-la de_fw-la correct_v lib._n §._o 4._o but_o not_o raze_v or_o blot_v out_o any_o thing_n that_o corner_n correct_v we_o leave_v for_o such_o corner_n companion_n as_o shun_v the_o light_n and_o so_o your_o principal_a argument_n be_v answer_v i_o go_v on_o to_o the_o rest_n 11._o first_o you_o tell_v we_o we_o be_v divide_v among_o ourselves_o touch_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o transubstantiation_n some_o derive_v it_o as_o you_o say_v from_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n some_o from_o his_o benediction_n before_o the_o word_n some_o from_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o father_n some_o from_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n some_o from_o scripture_n some_o from_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n where_o to_o fill_v paper_n and_o make_v a_o show_n you_o repeat_v again_o the_o same_o thing_n for_o what_o difference_n for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o this_o 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bless_a sacrament_n and_o transubstantiation_n other_o among_o catholic_n themselves_n as_o whither_o or_o how_o far_o these_o point_n may_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n etc._n etc._n or_o by_o what_o word_n or_o action_n this_o change_n be_v make_v you_o make_v no_o distinction_n at_o all_o of_o any_o of_o these_o thing_n nor_o speak_v any_o thing_n certain_o or_o constant_o of_o any_o of_o they_o but_o run_v hop_v up_o and_o down_o from_o one_o to_o another_o now_o forward_o now_o backward_o that_o no_o man_n can_v tell_v where_o to_o find_v you_o but_o though_o this_o confusion_n of_o you_o cause_n a_o little_a more_o trouble_n and_o length_n in_o answer_v yet_o in_o the_o end_n it_o will_v discover_v your_o ignorance_n and_o vanity_n the_o more_o 12._o to_o begin_v then_o with_o you_o i_o will_v know_v to_o what_o purpose_n you_o allege_v our_o author_n in_o thing_n controvert_v among_o themselves_o only_o either_o now_o because_o they_o be_v not_o define_v or_o heretofore_o when_o other_o thing_n then_o controvert_v be_v not_o define_v though_o they_o be_v since_o and_o consequent_o out_o of_o controversy_n do_v this_o difference_n of_o our_o author_n make_v any_o thing_n for_o you_o noe_o very_o but_o much_o against_o you_o for_o their_o modest_a manner_n of_o dispute_v of_o these_o thing_n with_o due_a submission_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o who_o censure_n they_o leave_v themselves_o their_o opinion_n and_o writing_n &_o their_o silence_n as_o soon_o as_o she_o do_v speak_v be_v a_o manifest_a condemnation_n of_o your_o haeretical_a pride_n that_o will_v stand_v to_o no_o judgement_n but_o your_o own_o and_o even_o those_o opinion_n of_o they_o which_o you_o take_v hold_v of_o they_o virtual_o retract_v so_o far_o as_o either_o they_o may_v be_v any_o way_n against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n or_o in_o favour_n of_o haeretique_n which_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n you_o seek_v therefore_o in_o any_o thing_n wherein_o they_o may_v dissent_v from_o the_o common_a belief_n as_o they_o do_v not_o bind_v we_o so_o they_o do_v not_o favour_v you_o but_o of_o this_o i_o say_v enough_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n though_o in_o the_o authoritye_n which_o you_o here_o allege_v there_o be_v not_o much_o need_n of_o this_o for_o either_o they_o say_v nothing_o against_o we_o or_o you_o corrupt_v they_o as_o i_o shall_v show_v 13._o and_o to_o begin_v with_o caietan_n in_o matter_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n you_o say_v out_o of_o suarez_n he_o teach_v that_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n do_v not_o of_o themselves_o sufficient_o prove_v transubstantiation_n without_o the_o suppose_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o therefore_o by_o command_n of_o pius_n v._o that_o part_n of_o his_o commentary_n be_v leave_v out_o of_o the_o romish_a edition_n thus_o you_o where_o first_o according_a to_o your_o usual_a liberty_n of_o falsify_v you_o put_v in_o the_o word_n suppose_v of_o your_o own_o to_o make_v the_o speech_n sound_v somewhat_o contemptible_o of_o the_o church_n whereas_o there_o be_v no_o such_o word_n in_o suarez_n his_o latin_a text_n which_o you_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n second_o you_o put_v in_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n which_o suarez_n there_o speak_v not_o of_o as_o be_v evident_a but_o only_o of_o the_o real_a presence_n which_o be_v a_o distinct_a thing_n though_o you_o confound_v they_o and_o in_o that_o suarez_n indeed_o &_o the_o whole_a school_n of_o divines_n do_v worthy_o condemn_v cajetan_v for_o say_v that_o those_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n do_v not_o sufficient_o prove_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n for_o singularity_n whereof_o caietan_n be_v often_o note_v in_o matter_n of_o such_o moment_n be_v very_o much_o to_o be_v condemn_v in_o a_o divine_a &_o therefore_o pius_n v._o with_o great_a reason_n command_v that_o to_o be_v blot_v out_o agreeable_o to_o the_o rule_v praescribe_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n for_o correct_v of_o book_n whereof_o you_o complain_v much_o as_o think_v cajetan_v somewhat_o to_o favour_v your_o side_n yet_o you_o be_v extreme_o mistake_v and_o by_o allege_v caietanes_n authority_n in_o this_o you_o give_v yourself_o a_o wound_n for_o though_o he_o do_v not_o give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o to_o be_v sufficient_a of_o themselves_o to_o prove_v the_o reality_n of_o christ_n presence_n yet_o he_o say_v that_o join_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n exposition_n of_o they_o they_o be_v sufficient_a as_o he_o say_v in_o express_a word_n which_o yourself_o after_o cite_v and_o yet_o you_o can_v allege_v he_o for_o you_o as_o you_o think_v here_o and_o which_o be_v more_o impudence_n you_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o say_v that_o caietan_n deni_v the_o bread_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v by_o those_o word_n for_o where_o have_v caietan_n such_o a_o word_n or_o even_a shadow_n of_o a_o word_n you_o think_v perhaps_o because_o in_o his_o opinion_n those_o word_n do_v not_o sufficient_o of_o themselves_o prove_v the_o verity_n of_o christ_n presence_n that_o therefore_o they_o do_v not_o sufficient_o cause_v it_o but_o if_o you_o think_v so_o as_o you_o seem_v you_o be_v much_o mistake_v for_o those_o be_v two_o different_a thing_n for_o example_n in_o baptism_n the_o word_n i_o baptize_v thou_o etc._n etc._n beside_o the_o cleanse_n of_o the_o soul_n from_o sin_n original_a &_o actual_a cause_n also_o the_o remission_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n &_o imprint_v a_o spiritual_a character_n in_o the_o soul_n though_o these_o effect_n can_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o word_n and_o so_o alsoe_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o the_o form_n of_o the_o eucharist_n the_o proof_n depend_v upon_o the_o speculative_a signification_n of_o
he_o bring_v these_o which_o you_o can_v not_o but_o see_v wherefore_o in_o this_o you_o come_v short_a of_o the_o very_a minister_n honesty_n how_o little_a then_o must_v you_o needs_o have_v last_o i_o answer_v this_o very_a authority_n be_v against_o you_o in_o the_o two_o thing_n in_o controversy_n between_o we_o to_o wit_n the_o real_a presence_n and_o transubstantiation_n both_o which_o it_o allow_v and_o be_v against_o we_o only_o in_o one_o not_o so_o proper_o in_o controversy_n to_o wit_n in_o that_o it_o say_v this_o change_n be_v wrought_v not_o by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o the_o benediction_n that_o go_v before_o which_o benediction_n it_o do_v not_o say_v whether_o it_o be_v a_o word_n or_o a_o deed_n and_o it_o be_v as_o like_a to_o be_v some_o word_n as_o otherwise_o but_o whether_o word_n or_o deed_n it_o be_v as_o easy_a to_o consecrate_v by_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n as_o by_o any_o other_o word_n or_o outward_a deed_n so_o as_o herein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o have_v no_o help_n from_o any_o man_n either_o salmeron_n or_o the_o grecian_n or_o even_o your_o friend_n chamier_n for_o he_o discover_v your_o bad_a deal_n 22._o after_o this_o matter_n of_o the_o blessing_n you_o come_v back_o again_o to_o the_o proof_n of_o transubstantiation_n out_o of_o scripture_n tell_v we_o that_o bellarmine_n say_v it_o be_v not_o altogether_o improbable_a that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a place_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v it_o without_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n as_o scotus_n say_v for_o though_o say_v bellarmine_n that_o place_n which_o we_o bring_v seem_v so_o plain_a that_o it_o may_v compel_v a_o man_n not_o refractory_a yet_o it_o may_v just_o be_v doubt_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no_o see_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n as_o scotus_n have_v think_v the_o contrary_n in_o which_o word_n bellarmine_n say_v but_o what_o we_o grant_v before_o to_o wit_n that_o though_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n in_o the_o plain_a connatural_a and_o obvious_a sense_n infer_v transubstantiation_n yet_o because_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o some_o learned_a man_n they_o may_v have_v another_o sense_n which_o prove_v only_o the_o real_a presence_n without_o transubstantiation_n it_o be_v not_o altogether_o improbable_a that_o without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n they_o can_v enforce_v a_o man_n to_o believe_v transubstantiation_n out_o of_o they_o what_o of_o all_o this_o nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n sir_n knight_n though_o in_o translate_n this_o saying_n of_o bellarmine_n you_n have_v corrupt_v it_o in_o two_o place_n the_o one_o that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v one_o scripture_n or_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v to_o prove_v transubstantiation_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o to_o enforce_v a_o man_n not_o refractory_a you_o change_v the_o singular_a number_n into_o the_o plural_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v the_o scripture_n be_v so_o plain_a etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o corruption_n of_o you_o thereby_o insinuate_a as_o if_o bellarmine_n teach_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v plain_a and_o with_o out_o difficulty_n so_o as_o every_o body_n may_v understand_v they_o which_o indeed_o be_v a_o ordinary_a say_n of_o you_o protestant_n but_o as_o ordinary_o deny_v by_o we_o catholic_n the_o other_o be_v that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v man_n most_o learned_a and_o acute_a as_o scotus_n be_v you_o say_v the_o most_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n such_o as_o scotus_n which_o word_n the_o you_o can_v but_o know_v alter_v the_o sense_n much_o for_o it_o import_v as_o if_o the_o better_a part_n of_o learned_a and_o acute_a man_n go_v that_o way_n which_o be_v false_a and_o contrary_a to_o the_o cardinal_n word_n and_o meaning_n 23._o you_o tell_v we_o now_o in_o the_o next_o place_n that_o you_o will_v proceed_v from_o scripture_n to_o father_n as_o if_o you_o have_v say_v mighty_a matter_n out_o of_o scripture_n not_o have_v indeed_o say_v one_o word_n out_o of_o it_o either_o for_o yourself_o or_o against_o us._n well_o let_v we_o see_v what_o you_o say_v out_o of_o the_o father_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n say_v you_o be_v a_o diligent_a reader_n of_o the_o father_n yet_o after_o great_a study_n and_o search_n return_v this_o answer_n of_o the_o conversion_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v seldom_o mention_v in_o the_o father_n but_o sir_n you_o be_v no_o diligent_a reader_n nor_o faithful_a interpreter_n of_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n for_o his_o word_n as_o you_o yourself_o put_v they_o down_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n be_v thus_o indulgent_a alphon_n a_o castro_n lib._n 8._o verbo_fw-la indulgent_a de_fw-fr transubstantiatione_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la rara_fw-la est_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la scriptoribus_fw-la mentio_fw-la that_o be_v of_o the_o transubstantiation_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v sedome_n mention_v in_o ancient_a writer_n wherein_o he_o say_v true_a and_o you_o most_o false_a for_o though_o of_o transubstantiation_n there_o be_v rare_a mention_n yet_o of_o the_o conversion_n of_o bread_n into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v most_o frequent_a mention_n as_o bellarmine_n show_v at_o large_a and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o a_o faithless_a interpreter_n 20._o de_fw-fr euchar._n l._n 3._o cap._n 20._o but_o if_o a_o man_n consider_v castro_n his_o meaning_n he_o shall_v find_v you_o to_o have_v abuse_v that_o much_o more_o than_o his_o word_n for_o his_o drift_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o show_v that_o though_o there_o be_v not_o much_o mention_n in_o ancient_a write_v of_o a_o thing_n or_o plain_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n that_o yet_o the_o use_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v sufficient_a bring_v for_o a_o example_n this_o point_n of_o transubstantiation_n whereof_o he_o say_v there_o be_v seldom_o mention_n and_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o son_n whereof_o say_v he_o there_o be_v more_o seldom_o mention_n and_o then_o make_v his_o inference_n upon_o it_o thus_o yet_o who_o but_o a_o haeretique_n will_v deny_v these_o thing_n you_o may_v then_o as_o well_o sir_n humphrey_n and_o better_o too_o in_o castro_n his_o judgement_n have_v deny_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o proceed_v from_o the_o son_n than_o the_o bread_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v into_o christ_n body_n and_o herein_o it_o be_v that_o you_o show_v yourself_o no_o diligent_a nor_o understand_v reader_n of_o castro_n 24._o after_o he_o come_v one_o yribarne_v a_o disciple_n of_o scotus_n who_o word_n you_o also_o corrupt_a in_o the_o translation_n which_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o tell_v you_o of_o for_o the_o matter_n he_o say_v it_o be_v of_o the_o substance_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o of_o transubstantiation_n wherein_o he_o seem_v to_o hold_v with_o his_o master_n scotus_n who_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n till_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n for_o which_o you_o yourself_o confess_v he_o be_v censure_v by_o bellarmine_n and_o suarez_n which_o be_v answer_n enough_o for_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o in_o the_o beginning_n we_o do_v not_o bind_v ourselves_o to_o defend_v every_o singular_a opinion_n of_o one_o or_o two_o doctor_n contrary_a to_o the_o common_a opinion_n of_o other_o but_o beside_o i_o answer_v that_o scotus_n plain_o aver_v transubstantiation_n and_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n who_o use_v the_o very_a word_n of_o conversion_n which_o be_v all_o one_o with_o transubstantiation_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n respondeo_fw-la quod_fw-la nec_fw-la panis_fw-la manet_fw-la contra_fw-la primam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la nec_fw-la annihilatur_fw-la vel_fw-la resoluitur_fw-la in_o materiam_fw-la primam_fw-la 9.3_o sâ—â—t_fw-la 4._o do_v 1â—_n 9.3_o contra_fw-la secundam_fw-la opinionem_fw-la sed_fw-la convertitur_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la et_fw-la ad_fw-la hoc_fw-la multum_fw-la express_v videtur_fw-la loqui_fw-la ambrose_n cvius_fw-la undecim_fw-la authoritates_fw-la supra_fw-la adductae_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o plures_fw-la habentur_fw-la de_fw-fr consecrat_fw-mi do_v 2._o i_o answer_v that_o neither_o the_o bread_n remain_v against_o the_o first_o opinion_n nor_o be_v annihilate_v or_o resolve_v in_o to_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la against_o the_o second_o opinion_n but_o be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o this_o purpose_n s._n ambrose_n seem_v to_o speak_v very_o express_o out_o of_o who_o 11._o authoritye_n be_v bring_v before_o and_o more_o be_v to_o be_v have_v the_o consecr_n do_v 2._o 1._o s._n amb._n de_fw-fr iis_fw-la qui_fw-la mist_n initiant_fw-la cap._n 9_o &_o the_o sacrament_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 3._o &_o 4._o lib._n 6._o cap._n 1
thus_o scotus_n not_o only_o teach_v transubstantiation_n himself_o but_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n who_o make_v most_o frequent_a mention_n of_o the_o change_n and_o conversion_n of_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n express_v by_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o scotus_n must_v have_v hold_v this_o doctrine_n for_o the_o substance_n thereof_o to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o s._n ambrose_n at_o the_o least_o and_o if_o so_o ancient_a then_o even_o from_o the_o beginning_n his_o meaning_n therefore_o in_o say_v it_o be_v determine_v of_o late_a in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n be_v only_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o bless_a sauiour_n body_n either_o by_o transubstantiation_n that_o be_v by_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n or_o otherwise_o so_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v remain_v the_o church_n have_v determine_v that_o the_o word_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o the_o former_a sense_n as_o may_v be_v gather_v by_o his_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n expound_v of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v she_o do_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n wherewith_o the_o faith_n be_v deliver_v to_o we_o to_o wit_n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n 11.9.3_o v._o scot._n in_o 4._o sent._n do_v 11.9.3_o which_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o though_o it_o be_v also_o the_o common_a belief_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o beginning_n yet_o it_o may_v well_o be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v be_v de_fw-fr substantia_fw-la fidei_fw-la yribarne_n speak_v because_o it_o have_v not_o be_v so_o plain_o deliver_v nor_o determine_v in_o any_o council_n till_o greg._n the_o 7._o his_o time_n wherein_o it_o be_v first_o define_v against_o berengarius_fw-la and_o that_o but_o by_o a_o particular_a or_o provincial_a roman_a council_n which_o notwithstanding_o the_o article_n in_o itself_o may_v be_v ancient_a though_o not_o so_o express_o deliver_v as_o i_o declare_v more_o ample_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n 25._o you_o have_v little_a help_n then_o sir_n humphrey_n from_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n scotus_n and_o yribarne_v which_o although_o you_o have_v yet_o be_v not_o that_o sufficient_a for_o discharge_v of_o your_o credit_n you_o have_v promise_v we_o acient_a father_n against_o transubstantiation_n which_o these_o three_o be_v not_o for_o one_o of_o they_o to_o wit_n yribarne_n be_v perhaps_o now_o alive_a another_o to_o wit_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n live_v not_o pass_v 100_o year_n ago_o the_o three_o to_o wit_n scotus_n about_o 300._o year_n since_o which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o father_n as_o we_o ordinary_o speak_v of_o they_o wherefore_o bethink_v yourself_o at_o last_o you_o bring_v we_o a_o father_n or_o two_o to_o wit_n s._n aug._n and_o theodoret_n tell_v we_o that_o s._n aug._n be_v so_o whole_o you_o that_o maldonat_n expound_v a_o place_n in_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n say_v that_o he_o be_v persuade_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n and_o see_v that_o caluin_n expound_v the_o same_o place_n as_o he_o do_v he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o mind_n and_o for_o theodoret_n you_o say_v that_o valentia_n observe_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o consecrate_a element_n do_v remain_v in_o their_o proper_a substance_n and_o shape_n and_o figure_n he_o make_v the_o like_a answer_n that_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o one_o or_o more_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n before_o the_o question_n be_v debate_v do_v think_v less_o considerate_o and_o true_o of_o transubstantiation_n this_o be_v all_o that_o ever_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o how_o little_a it_o be_v and_o how_o much_o to_o your_o shame_n shall_v upon_o examination_n appear_v io._n aug_n er_fw-mi 26._o in_o io._n 26._o for_o s._n augustine_n then_o what_o be_v it_o that_o he_o say_v in_o favour_n of_o you_o in_o expound_v that_o verse_n of_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n where_o our_o saviour_n say_v your_o father_n have_v eat_v manna_n and_o be_v dead_a he_o that_o eat_v this_o bread_n shall_v live_v for_o ever_o he_o say_v that_o their_o father_n that_o be_v the_o naughty_a and_o unbelieve_a people_n of_o the_o jew_n die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o in_o their_o soul_n because_o they_o in_o eat_v manna_n do_v consider_v only_o what_o it_o present_v to_o their_o outward_a sense_n and_o not_o what_o it_o represent_v unto_o their_o mind_n by_o faith_n whereas_o the_o good_a man_n among_o they_o as_o moses_n aaron_n phinees_n and_o other_o who_o he_o say_v be_v our_o father_n and_o not_o they_o do_v not_o die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o because_o they_o do_v not_o consider_v it_o only_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n but_o according_a to_o faith_n remember_v that_o it_o be_v but_o a_o figure_n and_o a_o figure_n of_o this_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o we_o have_v as_o the_o same_o holy_a father_n say_v express_o in_o the_o same_o place_n hunc_fw-la panem_fw-la significavit_fw-la manna_n manna_n signify_v this_o bread_n and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o judas_n and_o other_o bad_a christian_n which_o receive_v of_o the_o altar_n and_o by_o receive_v die_v because_o they_o receive_v it_o ill_o do_v not_o this_o make_n much_o for_o you_o now_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o see_v how_o whole_o s._n aug._n be_v you_o how_o he_o say_v that_o manna_n be_v a_o figure_n of_o this_o our_o heavenly_a bread_n that_o we_o receive_v it_o from_o the_o altar_n do_v not_o all_o this_o make_v fine_o for_o you_o but_o you_o will_v say_v then_o if_o it_o make_v nothing_o for_o we_o why_o do_v maldonate_fw-it say_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n he_o will_v have_v interpret_v otherwise_o i_o answer_v not_o that_o this_o interpretation_n be_v for_o you_o but_o because_o the_o other_o be_v more_o against_o you_o to_o wit_n thus_o whereas_o s._n augustine_n give_v the_o reason_n why_o they_o that_o do_v eat_v manna_n die_v to_o be_v because_o they_o do_v not_o eat_v it_o with_o faith_n maldonate_fw-it make_v the_o difference_n to_o be_v not_o so_o much_o between_o the_o person_n which_o do_v eat_v as_o between_o the_o food_n which_o they_o do_v eat_v say_v that_o our_o saviour_n make_v this_o a_o special_a prerogative_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n far_o above_o the_o manna_n that_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n give_v life_n to_o they_o that_o eat_v it_o which_o the_o manna_n do_v not_o give_v of_o itself_o and_o indeed_o with_o dew_n reverence_n be_v it_o speak_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n this_o interpretation_n be_v more_o suitable_a to_o the_o text_n and_o discourse_n of_o our_o saviour_n in_o that_o whole_a chapter_n which_o be_v to_o compare_v and_o prefer_v that_o true_a bread_n which_o he_o say_v his_o heavenly_a father_n do_v give_v before_o that_o of_o manna_n which_o moses_n give_v their_o father_n it_o be_v more_o also_o against_o the_o haeretique_n of_o these_o time_n in_o regard_n it_o be_v more_o for_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n which_o they_o labour_v might_n &_o main_a to_o depress_v and_o that_o be_v the_o very_a reason_n why_o caluin_n rather_o follow_v the_o former_a interpretation_n not_o for_o any_o love_n to_o truth_n or_o reverence_v which_o he_o bear_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n 27._o how_o false_a then_o and_o absurd_a be_v that_o scoff_a speech_n of_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o the_o next_o leaf_n of_o your_o book_n where_o you_o say_v ironical_o thus_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o corporal_a presence_n for_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n if_o he_o have_v live_v in_o these_o day_n as_o if_o forsooth_o maldonate_fw-it do_v say_n that_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n concern_v the_o same_o if_o he_o have_v live_v now_o in_o these_o time_n you_o hereby_o insinuate_v as_o if_o s._n augustine_n think_v otherwise_o thereof_o then_o we_o now_o teach_v but_o how_o gross_o false_a this_o be_v may_v appear_v plain_o by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o real_a presence_n whereof_o either_o s._n aug._n or_o maldonate_fw-it speak_v but_o how_o they_o that_o eat_v manna_n have_v dye_v and_o they_o that_o eat_v the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n shall_v live_v according_a to_o our_o sauiour_n saying_n which_o be_v clean_o a_o different_a thing_n wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v line_v s._n aug._n somewhat_o but_o maldonate_fw-it you_o be_v line_v much_o more_o by_o make_v as_o if_o he_o acknowledge_v s._n augustine_n to_o be_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v
conveniret_fw-la sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la fieri_fw-la communionem_fw-la quam_fw-la sub_fw-la altera_fw-la tantum_fw-la hoc_fw-la enim_fw-la magis_fw-la consonum_fw-la est_fw-la eius_fw-la institutioni_fw-la &_o integritati_fw-la &_o refectioni_fw-la corporali_fw-la &_o exemplo_fw-la christi_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o we_o regard_v the_o sacrament_n and_o the_o perfection_n thereof_o it_o be_v more_o convenient_a to_o have_v the_o communion_n under_o both_o kind_n then_o under_o one_o for_o this_o be_v more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o institution_n thereof_o and_o the_o integrity_n and_o corporal_a resection_n and_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n where_o first_o you_o leave_v out_o in_o your_o english_a translation_n those_o word_n habito_fw-la respectu_fw-la ad_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la though_o you_o put_v they_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n which_o word_n be_v the_o life_n of_o the_o sentence_n and_o plain_o show_v that_o tapper_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o the_o conveniency_n absolute_o and_o all_o thing_n consider_v but_o in_o some_o respect_n to_o wit_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o signification_n of_o our_o sauiour_n passion_n which_o be_v more_o express_a in_o both_o kind_n then_o in_o one_o &_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o institution_n which_o be_v in_o both_o &_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o integrity_n because_o as_o the_o divine_n say_v both_o the_o species_n be_v part_n integrantes_fw-la as_o two_o piece_n of_o bread_n in_o one_o loaf_n though_o both_o together_o have_v no_o more_o essential_a perfection_n than_o one_o alone_a and_o in_o respect_n of_o corporal_a refection_n which_o as_o it_o require_v meat_n and_o drink_v so_o the_o spiritual_a refection_n be_v more_o express_o signify_v by_o both_o though_o no_o less_o effectual_o perform_v by_o one_o so_o that_o this_o while_n tapper_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o absolute_a conveniency_n but_o only_o in_o some_o respect_n wherein_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n whether_o you_o have_v keep_v your_o promise_n of_o not_o wilful_o or_o witting_o misciting_a or_o mistranslate_n any_o author_n for_o here_o it_o appear_v how_o you_o have_v mis-translated_n leave_v out_o as_o a_o man_n may_v say_v the_o principal_a verb_n which_o shall_v yet_o more_o appear_v by_o that_o which_o follow_v immediate_o in_o the_o same_o author_n which_o be_v this_o alia_fw-la tamen_fw-la consideratione_n reverentia_fw-la uz._n quae_fw-la huic_fw-la sacramento_n dbetur_fw-la utque_fw-la in_o eius_fw-la usu_fw-la vitemus_fw-la omneâ—â—â—reverentian_n minus_fw-la convenit_fw-la atque_fw-la etiam_fw-la malun_fw-la est_fw-la nulloque_fw-la modâ—_n expediens_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ut_fw-la populus_fw-la christianus_n sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la communicaret_fw-la bâ—â—_n in_o another_o consideration_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o reverence_n which_o be_v dew_n to_o this_o sacrament_n and_o to_o the_o end_n we_o may_v avoid_v all_o irreverence_n it_o be_v less_o convenient_a and_o even_o it_o be_v ill_a and_o no_o way_n expedient_a for_o the_o church_n that_o the_o christian_a people_n shall_v communicate_v under_o both_o kind_n loe_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o honest_o do_v of_o you_o to_o leave_v out_o this_o be_v the_o other_o half_n of_o the_o sentence_n answer_v to_o the_o former_a which_o of_o itself_o be_v imperfect_a and_o which_o be_v the_o author_n absolute_a judgement_n and_o determination_n can_v any_o man_n ever_o give_v you_o credit_v more_o but_o because_o sir_n i_o will_v not_o leave_v any_o scruple_n in_o any_o man_n mind_n concern_v this_o author_n meaning_n and_o that_o by_o the_o perfection_n and_o integrity_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o former_a part_n of_o the_o sentence_n he_o do_v not_o mean_v the_o want_n of_o any_o spiritual_a fruit_n i_o will_v add_v one_o word_n more_o out_o of_o he_o which_o be_v this_o in_o omissione_n calicis_fw-la nullum_fw-la interuenit_fw-la peccatum_fw-la aut_fw-la periculum_fw-la nec_fw-la aliquod_fw-la gratiae_fw-la spiritualis_fw-la iactum_fw-la in_o the_o omit_v or_o leave_v of_o the_o chalice_n there_o be_v no_o sin_n or_o danger_n or_o loss_n of_o any_o spiritual_a grace_n what_o can_v he_o say_v or_o we_o desire_v more_o 10._o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o your_o conclusion_n which_o you_o draw_v out_o of_o that_o that_o because_o many_o father_n and_o learned_a man_n do_v agree_v in_o say_v that_o the_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n be_v most_o frequent_a in_o the_o primitive_a church_n therefore_o they_o give_v testimony_n of_o your_o doctrine_n it_o be_v most_o foolish_a for_o we_o also_o agree_v with_o they_o in_o the_o former_a and_o yet_o deny_v your_o doctrine_n which_o be_v that_o all_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n &_o consequent_o that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o receive_v it_o in_o one_o kind_n and_o that_o so_o to_o receive_v it_o be_v to_o receive_v but_o a_o half_a communion_n and_o such_o like_a absurditye_n this_o be_v your_o doctrine_n for_o proof_n whereof_o you_o have_v not_o bring_v one_o word_n out_o of_o any_o author_n but_o bring_v some_o that_o say_v absolute_o and_o express_o the_o contrary_a as_o val._n tapper_n bell._n etc._n etc._n nay_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o a_o man_n shall_v show_v you_o out_o of_o your_o own_o statute_n law_n make_v now_o in_o this_o your_o time_n of_o reformation_n some_o approbation_n or_o allowance_n of_o the_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n 1._o 1._o edw._n 6._o cap._n 1._o which_o be_v the_o thing_n you_o exclaim_v so_o against_o we_o for_o see_v in_o the_o law_n of_o k._n edw._n 6._o reviue_v and_o confirm_v by_o q._n elizabeth_n whether_o they_o do_v not_o say_v only_o that_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v common_o deliver_v &_o minister_v to_o the_o people_n under_o both_o kind_n 1._o 1._o eliz._n ca._n 1._o &_o with_o this_o exception_n also_o unless_o necessity_n otherwise_o require_v look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o not_o here_o allow_v upon_o necessity_n though_o the_o necessity_n be_v not_o express_v what_o or_o how_o great_a it_o must_v be_v but_o hence_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o particular_a necessity_n may_v excuse_v in_o a_o particular_a case_n if_o the_o necessity_n shall_v prove_v great_a &_o universal_a it_o may_v be_v also_o sufficient_a for_o abstayn_v from_o one_o kind_n universal_o or_o general_o and_o howsoever_o it_o show_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n not_o to_o be_v so_o strict_o command_v by_o christ_n for_o if_o it_o be_v no_o necessity_n can_v excuse_v it_o in_o one_o kind_a 11._o and_o so_o this_o may_v serve_v for_o this_o matter_n but_o that_o i_o be_o loath_a to_o let_v pass_v a_o worthy_a say_n of_o you_o in_o the_o very_a end_n of_o this_o §_o which_o be_v this_o and_o as_o concern_v the_o half_a communion_n which_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o want_v antiquity_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n by_o their_o own_o confession_n so_o likewise_o it_o want_v a_o right_a foundation_n in_o the_o scripture_n which_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o have_v thus_o you_o where_o with_o your_o worship_n good_a leave_n a_o man_n may_v tell_v you_o you_o have_v as_o many_o fault_n as_o word_n we_o teach_v all_o the_o contrary_a to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o half_a communion_n but_o that_o christ_n be_v receive_v whole_a and_o entire_a and_o a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o as_o much_o spiritual_a fruit_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n in_o one_o kind_a as_o both_o as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n by_o your_o confession_n define_v we_o say_v it_o neither_o want_v antiquity_n nor_o consent_n of_o father_n as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o many_o other_o we_o say_v it_o do_v not_o want_v a_o right_a foundation_n in_o the_o scripture_n for_o as_o i_o say_v before_o we_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n 24._o v._o bell._n lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr euch._n cap._n 24._o both_o of_o the_o old_a &_o new_a testament_n the_o doctrine_n and_o example_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o his_o apostle_n express_v in_o scripture_n we_o say_v also_o to_o conclude_v therewith_o that_o it_o be_v most_o false_a of_o all_o which_o you_o take_v every_o where_o for_o a_o very_a truth_n as_o if_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o all_o side_n to_o wit_n that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n must_v have_v sufficient_a and_o express_a proof_n of_o scripture_n whereas_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n and_o as_o general_o conclude_v among_o all_o divine_n and_o father_n as_o you_o bold_o affirm_v you_o which_o assertion_n therefore_o of_o you_o i_o here_o absolute_o deny_v once_o for_o all_o and_o though_o i_o need_v not_o stand_v prove_v it_o be_v every_o where_n in_o all_o our_o author_n yet_o for_o the_o reader_n sake_n i_o will_v cite_v one_o place_n of_o s._n jerome_n come_v first_o to_o my_o memory_n who_o have_v prove_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n against_o the_o luciferian_n haeretique_n out_o of_o
you_o and_o they_o be_v 10._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v out_o of_o mr._n fisher_n that_o though_o there_o be_v no_o express_a practice_n or_o precept_n of_o worship_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n yet_o there_o be_v principle_n which_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n suppose_v convince_v adoration_n to_o be_v lawful_a it_o be_v as_o well_o and_o true_o say_v by_o he_o as_o that_o be_v false_o foolish_o &_o impertinent_o which_o you_o say_v thereupon_o that_o from_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o grace_n we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o to_o declare_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n by_o the_o light_n thereof_o mr._n fisher_n say_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n show_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a which_o be_v true_a you_o say_v he_o declare_v it_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n from_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n which_o be_v false_a there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o those_o two_o to_o be_v lawful_a and_o to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n the_o light_n of_o nature_n may_v reach_v to_o show_v a_o thing_n to_o be_v lawful_a but_o not_o to_o make_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n for_o that_o must_v be_v ground_v upon_o the_o supernatural_a light_n of_o divine_a revelation_n which_o be_v far_o above_o the_o natural_a light_n of_o humane_a reason_n though_o by_o your_o favour_n sir_n knight_n as_o scornful_o as_o you_o speak_v of_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n it_o have_v somewhat_o more_o to_o do_v also_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n than_o you_o be_v aware_a of_o for_o out_o of_o one_o premisse_a reveal_v and_o another_o evident_a by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n there_o may_v be_v draw_v a_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n or_o at_o least_o such_o as_o may_v sufficient_o ground_v a_o definition_n of_o a_o council_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n and_o likewise_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n have_v place_n also_o in_o all_o the_o mystery_n of_o our_o faith_n in_o some_o show_v the_o reason_n or_o congruence_n in_o all_o show_v that_o there_o be_v no_o falsehood_n or_o impossibility_n and_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v the_o gift_n and_o law_n alsoe_o of_o god_n why_o then_o shall_v you_o speak_v so_o contemptible_o of_o it_o but_o only_o that_o you_o want_v it_o in_o great_a part_n and_o consequent_o know_v not_o the_o worth_n thereof_o 11._o but_o it_o be_v strange_a here_o to_o see_v how_o though_o you_o can_v find_v in_o your_o hart_n to_o allow_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n allege_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n you_o can_v allege_v it_o against_o they_o but_o even_o as_o wise_o as_o you_o deny_v it_o for_o they_o you_o say_v varro_n a_o heathen_a philosopher_n by_o the_o instinct_n of_o nature_n profess_v the_o contrary_a by_o say_v the_o god_n be_v better_o serve_v without_o image_n the_o latin_a be_v castius_fw-la dij_fw-la obseruantur_fw-la sine_fw-la simulachris_fw-la 31._o aug._n 4._o de_fw-fr civit._n ca._n 31._o which_o say_v you_o tell_v we_o s._n aug._n comend_v and_o so_o he_o do_v indeed_o but_o understand_v he_o far_o otherwise_o than_o you_o do_v for_o he_o do_v take_v simulachrum_fw-la not_o for_o a_o image_n as_o you_o do_v false_o but_o for_o a_o idol_n as_o it_o be_v indeed_o and_o so_o commend_v varro_n for_o come_v near_o to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o true_a god_n and_o go_v far_o from_o idolatry_n in_o that_o he_o neither_o acknowledge_v any_o deity_n in_o those_o material_a idol_n nor_o that_o multiplicity_n of_o god_n but_o rather_o allow_v the_o opinion_n of_o they_o that_o hold_v that_o god_n be_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o world_n which_o though_o it_o be_v also_o a_o error_n in_o he_o yet_o s._n augustine_n say_v it_o come_v near_a to_o truth_n in_o that_o it_o teach_v but_o one_o god_n and_o he_o not_o a_o material_a or_o corporal_a but_o a_o spiritual_a and_o invisible_a substance_n for_o proof_n whereof_o varro_n allege_v that_o for_o above_o a_o hundred_o year_n the_o roman_n have_v worship_v their_o god_n without_o those_o material_a idol_n which_o whosoever_o bring_v in_o say_v he_o do_v take_v a_o way_n the_o fear_n and_o add_v or_o increase_v the_o error_n he_o mean_v that_o they_o that_o bring_v in_o those_o idol_n take_v away_o all_o fear_n of_o the_o god_n because_o man_n see_v those_o idol_n propose_v for_o god_n contemn_v they_o and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o he_o say_v castiùs_fw-la dij_fw-la obseruantur_fw-la sine_fw-la simulachris_fw-la the_o god_n be_v more_o chaste_o or_o pure_o observe_v or_o fear_v without_o those_o idol_n now_o what_o be_v this_o against_o us._n do_v not_o we_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n much_o more_o ample_o and_o more_o full_o i_o see_v not_o then_o why_o you_o shall_v bring_v it_o unless_o it_o be_v to_o usher_v in_o a_o thing_n which_o you_o have_v out_o of_o eusebius_n to_o give_v the_o reason_n as_o you_o say_v why_o these_o father_n condemn_v the_o worshipper_n of_o image_n for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n in_o these_o word_n because_o say_v eusebius_n the_o man_n of_o old_a of_o a_o heathenish_a custom_n be_v wont_v after_o that_o manner_n to_o honour_v such_o as_o they_o count_v saviour_n whereupon_o you_o say_v that_o after_o image_n have_v get_v foot_v among_o christian_n the_o bishop_n and_o emperor_n by_o counsel_n and_o command_n take_v special_a care_n to_o prevent_v both_o the_o make_n and_o worship_v they_o and_o thereto_o you_o bring_v a_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n that_o no_o picture_n shall_v be_v in_o church_n lest_o that_o which_o be_v worship_v shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n and_o a_o authority_n out_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n of_o a_o decree_n make_v against_o adoration_n of_o image_n which_o i_o shall_v cite_v when_o i_o come_v to_o answer_n it_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n wherein_o you_o have_v give_v so_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o notorious_a bad_a deal_n especial_o in_o the_o 2._o place_n of_o eusebius_n and_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n that_o if_o there_o be_v nothing_o else_o falsify_v or_o corrupt_v in_o your_o whole_a book_n this_o be_v enough_o utter_o to_o deface_v all_o memory_n of_o you_o from_o among_o honest_a man_n 12._o the_o matter_n be_v this_o have_v bring_v only_o s._n aug_n commend_v varro_n his_o say_n against_o idol_n you_o say_v in_o the_o plural_a number_n these_o father_n as_o if_o you_o have_v bring_v some_o great_a number_n of_o father_n and_o withal_o you_o say_v these_o father_n condemn_v the_o worhipper_n of_o image_n for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n what_o word_n have_v you_o bring_v out_o of_o any_o father_n one_o or_o other_o to_o this_o purpose_n from_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o this_o §_o either_o condemn_v the_o woship_n of_o image_n in_o we_o christian_n or_o call_v we_o haeretique_n or_o idolater_n for_o it_o how_o then_o can_v you_o have_v the_o face_n to_o say_v it_o so_o bold_o but_o we_o must_v not_o ask_v you_o reason_n for_o any_o thing_n you_o say_v but_o take_v it_o as_o you_o say_v it_o well_o you_o tell_v we_o eusebius_n give_v the_o reason_n why_o the_o father_n condemn_v we_o for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n which_o import_v that_o eusebius_n concur_v with_o those_o father_n in_o judgement_n who_o fact_n he_o give_v a_o reason_n for_o but_o what_o if_o eusebius_n do_v not_o condemn_v it_o can_v you_o desire_v to_o be_v count_v a_o honest_a man_n i_o presume_v you_o can_v well_o let_v we_o then_o see_v whether_o he_o do_v so_o or_o not_o make_v mention_n of_o the_o city_n of_o caesarea_n philippi_n by_o occasion_n thereof_o he_o relate_v a_o story_n of_o the_o woman_n which_o be_v cure_v by_o touch_v the_o hem_n of_o our_o saviour_n garment_n 14._o eus._n hist_o lib._n 7._o cap._n 14._o and_o how_o come_v home_n after_o her_o cure_n to_o caesarea_n philippi_n where_o she_o live_v she_o make_v herself_o a_o brazen_a statue_n set_v upon_o a_o high_a stone_n before_o her_o own_o door_n as_o if_o she_o be_v kneel_v upon_o her_o knee_n and_o hold_v up_o her_o hand_n like_o one_o pray_v and_o look_v towards_o another_o statue_n of_o a_o man_n stand_v straight_o up_o with_o long_a garment_n down_o to_o the_o foot_n stretch_v out_o his_o hand_n to_o the_o woman_n which_o statue_n the_o people_n say_v be_v the_o statue_n of_o jesus_n upon_o the_o very_a basis_n or_o foot_n of_o this_o statue_n they_o say_v there_o grow_v a_o certain_a strange_a and_o unusual_a kind_n of_o herb_n which_o as_o soon_o as_o it_o grow_v up_o so_o high_a as_o to_o touch_v the_o hem_n of_o the_o brazen_a garment_n it_o have_v virtue_n to_o cure_v disease_n of_o every_o kind_n which_o statue_n eusebius_n say_v continue_v to_o his_o time_n and_o that_o he_o see_v it_o himself_o neither_o be_v it_o to_o be_v wonder_v say_v he_o go_v on_o with_o his_o discourse_n that_o
their_o subject_n though_o he_o do_v permit_v the_o use_n thereof_o to_o other_o some_o time_n more_o sometime_o less_o according_a to_o the_o difference_n of_o time_n place_n and_o person_n but_o this_o of_o the_o extent_n of_o the_o pope_n power_n in_o this_o kind_n be_v not_o a_o matter_n for_o this_o place_n but_o it_o pertain_v to_o that_o disputation_n of_o the_o pope_n authority_n in_o general_n it_o be_v enough_o here_o if_o we_o prove_v the_o same_o power_n and_o use_v of_o give_v indulgence_n now_o as_o be_v in_o most_o ancient_a time_n as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n declare_v and_o you_o yourself_o confess_v in_o as_o much_o as_o you_o grant_v that_o indulgence_n and_o pardon_n be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n then_o which_o we_o prove_v to_o be_v the_o same_o now_o for_o neither_o do_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n stand_v say_v who_o have_v more_o or_o who_o have_v less_o of_o that_o power_n for_o that_o be_v needless_a the_o question_n be_v with_o haeretique_n who_o deny_v the_o power_n whole_o to_o be_v in_o god_n church_n 5._o the_o difference_n then_o between_o our_o indulgence_n and_o that_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v not_o in_o this_o that_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o grant_v it_o wherein_o they_o you_o may_v say_v as_o you_o seem_v indeed_o to_o say_v that_o it_o consist_v in_o this_o that_o we_o be_v by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n which_o we_o term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o their_o be_v a_o free_a relaxation_n without_o any_o such_o regard_n to_o this_o treasure_n but_o the_o difference_n can_v also_o be_v in_o this_o for_o the_o bishop_n power_n whereby_o he_o do_v pardon_v then_o be_v ground_v in_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n for_o what_o he_o do_v he_o do_v in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n as_o s._n paul_n say_v of_o himself_o in_o forgive_a the_o corinthian_a neither_o do_v he_o forgive_v the_o guilt_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n whole_o gratis_o or_o free_o without_o any_o manner_n of_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o justice_n of_o almighty_a god_n in_o as_o much_o at_o lest_o as_o these_o penance_n be_v impose_v for_o satisfaction_n for_o the_o fault_n in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n alsoe_o this_o i_o say_v the_o bishop_n neither_o do_v nor_o can_v do_v for_o christ_n himself_o do_v not_o forgive_v sin_n so_o but_o by_o shed_v of_o his_o blood_n for_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v in_o lege_fw-la sine_fw-la sanguine_fw-la non_fw-la fit_a remissio_fw-la in_o the_o law_n there_o be_v no_o forgiveness_n without_o blood_n 9.22_o heb._n 9.22_o whereby_o the_o holy_a apostle_n prove_v that_o without_o the_o shed_n of_o christ_n blood_n there_o be_v no_o remission_n of_o sin_n and_o all_o forgiveness_n of_o sin_n as_o well_o for_o the_o guilt_n as_o punishment_n be_v dependent_a thereof_o wherefore_o what_o the_o bishop_n do_v forgive_v in_o this_o manner_n they_o do_v forgive_v by_o application_n of_o christ_n his_o merit_n now_o these_o merit_n be_v not_o new_a but_o the_o former_a merit_n of_o his_o life_n and_o passion_n for_o christ_n do_v consummate_v all_o by_o one_o entire_a oblation_n of_o himself_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v 10.14_o heb._n 10.14_o if_o then_o it_o be_v by_o virtue_n of_o those_o merit_n then_o must_v they_o needs_o lie_v in_o store_n ready_a to_o be_v apply_v to_o man_n as_o they_o do_v dispose_v themselves_o to_o receive_v the_o fruit_n of_o they_o and_o the_o pastor_n please_v to_o dispense_v they_o and_o why_o then_o may_v not_o christ_n merit_n lie_v thus_o in_o store_n for_o the_o need_n of_o all_o man_n be_v compare_v to_o a_o common_a treasure_n and_o be_v call_v by_o that_o name_n so_o far_o forth_o then_o as_o those_o pardon_n be_v ground_v in_o christ_n merit_n or_o grant_v by_o application_n of_o they_o to_o the_o penitent_a there_o be_v no_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o we_o 6._o now_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n you_o seem_v to_o say_v that_o they_o have_v no_o part_n in_o those_o indulgence_n that_o be_v those_o indulgence_n be_v not_o give_v by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n but_o therein_o you_o be_v also_o mistake_v sir_n humphrey_n for_o even_o in_o that_o place_n of_o saint_n paul_n wherein_o you_o allow_v he_o to_o speak_v of_o indulce_n he_o say_v he_o do_v forgive_v the_o corithian_a not_o only_o in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n but_o for_o their_o sake_n also_o which_o import_v the_o prayer_n and_o desert_n of_o saint_n to_o have_v some_o place_n in_o the_o bestow_n of_o that_o indulgence_n and_o so_o likewise_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n as_o you_o can_v but_o know_v for_o martyr_n that_o have_v make_v a_o good_a confession_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o endure_v torment_n for_o the_o same_o to_o make_v intercession_n to_o the_o bishop_n for_o release_n part_n of_o the_o punishment_n dew_n to_o other_o who_o out_o of_o weakness_n fail_v therein_o and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o by_o apply_v the_o superaboundant_a merit_n of_o the_o one_o to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o the_o other_o and_o that_o this_o be_v not_o by_o way_n of_o impetration_n or_o favour_n only_o at_o the_o bishop_n hand_n but_o by_o application_n of_o the_o very_a martyr_n merit_n appear_v by_o tertullian_n 12._o tertull._n lib._n de_fw-la put_fw-mi cap._n 12._o who_o be_v become_v now_o a_o haeretique_n do_v reprehend_v that_o custom_n say_v that_o a_o martyr_n merit_n be_v little_a enough_o for_o himself_o without_o have_v any_o surplusage_n to_o help_v other_o withal_o wherein_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o deny_v this_o application_n if_o man_n have_v to_o spare_v of_o their_o own_o satisfaction_n as_o no_o question_n many_o and_o almost_o all_o great_a saint_n have_v for_o though_o they_o may_v continual_o as_o long_o as_o they_o be_v in_o this_o world_n increase_v in_o grace_n and_o merit_n for_o so_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o essential_a merit_n without_o have_v to_o spare_v but_o rather_o still_o need_v which_o kind_n of_o merit_n they_o can_v part_v with_o to_o other_o yet_o for_o that_o other_o fruit_n of_o their_o work_n and_o suffering_n which_o pertain_v to_o satisfaction_n and_o temporal_a punishment_n dew_n for_o their_o own_o sin_n they_o may_v have_v sufficient_a for_o themselves_o &_o to_o spare_v also_o to_o help_v other_o for_o example_n a_o man_n fall_v into_o some_o one_o sin_n for_o which_o he_o come_v to_o be_v so_o sorry_a after_o that_o he_o betake_v himself_o to_o a_o state_n of_o penance_n during_o his_o whole_a life_n lead_v the_o same_o in_o great_a austerity_n of_o fast_v watch_v pray_v and_o in_o the_o exercise_n of_o all_o virtue_n and_o it_o may_v be_v have_v first_o obtain_v pardon_n of_o the_o fault_n itself_o by_o hearty_a contrition_n and_o humble_a confession_n by_o those_o good_a work_n obtain_v also_o remission_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n within_o the_o space_n of_o 1._o 2._o 3._o 7._o 10._o or_o 12._o year_n for_o example_n sake_n he_o then_o lead_v the_o same_o life_n still_o 20._o 30._o 40._o 50._o 60._o year_n more_o as_o many_o have_v do_v what_o shall_v become_v of_o all_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o be_v over_o and_o above_o for_o that_o sin_n or_o sin_n which_o he_o commit_v before_o it_o do_v not_o perish_v nor_o pass_v without_o fruit_n though_o not_o of_o he_o yet_o of_o other_o at_o least_o who_o be_v member_n of_o the_o same_o mystical_a body_n with_o he_o so_o than_o some_o man_n have_v merit_n superaboundant_a to_o this_o effect_n and_o these_o merit_n may_v be_v communicate_v to_o other_o member_n of_o the_o same_o body_n and_o these_o merit_n be_v not_o lose_v nor_o forget_v by_o almighty_a god_n though_o they_o be_v not_o apply_v present_o why_o may_v not_o they_o then_o be_v say_v to_o lie_v in_o deposito_fw-la as_o money_n in_o a_o treasury_n 7._o in_o this_o therefore_o be_v not_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n and_o those_o which_o you_o allow_v wherein_o then_o i_o see_v not_o unless_o it_o be_v that_o we_o extend_v our_o indulgence_n to_o the_o dead_a as_o indeed_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o in_o part_n to_o this_o i_o may_v answer_v first_o that_o it_o be_v another_o controversy_n or_o another_o point_n at_o least_o of_o the_o same_o controversy_n for_o indulgence_n be_v apply_v in_o a_o different_a manner_n to_o the_o live_n and_o the_o dead_a and_o that_o definition_n which_o you_o give_v that_o indulgence_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n do_v not_o pertain_v to_o the_o dead_a for_o absolution_n be_v a_o juridical_a act_n to_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o superior_a and_o judge_v towards_o a_o inferior_a and_o a_o subject_n be_v under_o his_o power_n which_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n be_v
not_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o pope_n wherefore_o you_o in_o go_v to_o indulgence_n for_o the_o dead_a seem_v to_o allow_v they_o for_o the_o live_n or_o rather_o show_v you_o can_v say_v against_o they_o now_o for_o apply_v indulgence_n to_o the_o dead_a though_o the_o manner_n of_o application_n be_v different_a and_o that_o we_o do_v not_o find_v example_n altogether_o so_o ancient_a as_o of_o the_o former_a yet_o the_o thing_n be_v in_o some_o sort_n the_o same_o suppose_v you_o grant_v the_o power_n of_o apply_v indulgence_n to_o the_o live_n as_o you_o can_v deny_v your_o own_o ground_n be_v lay_v thus_o therefore_o i_o show_v the_o matter_n to_o be_v the_o same_o suppose_v another_o point_n alsoe_o of_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o here_o to_o be_v dispute_v of_o to_o wit_n the_o communion_n of_o saint_n or_o communication_n which_o be_v between_o the_o saint_n live_v and_o dead_a either_o reign_v in_o heaven_n or_o suffering_n in_o satisfaction_n of_o their_o sin_n in_o 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well_o as_o by_o the_o merit_n and_o suffering_n of_o man_n live_v here_o upon_o earth_n there_o be_v no_o difference_n then_o nor_o reason_n why_o you_o shall_v grant_v that_o ancient_a manner_n of_o indulgence_n and_o deny_v we_o now_o a_o day_n or_o why_o you_o shall_v grant_v indulgence_n for_o the_o live_n and_o not_o for_o the_o dead_a so_o long_o as_o they_o pertain_v to_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n and_o have_v need_v thereof_o 8._o now_o for_o that_o which_o you_o add_v here_o to_o make_v our_o indulgence_n apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n ridiculous_a by_o say_v we_o grant_v they_o for_o many_o thousand_o of_o year_n after_o death_n thereto_o cite_v a_o old_a sarum_n book_n of_o the_o hour_n of_o our_o lady_n it_o be_v false_a and_o idle_a false_a both_o because_o your_o authority_n which_o you_o cite_v do_v not_o mention_v purgatory_n but_o only_o say_v that_o whosoever_o shall_v say_v these_o &_o these_o prayer_n shall_v gain_v so_o many_o thousand_o year_n of_o pardon_n which_o be_v no_o more_o for_o the_o dead_a then_o for_o the_o live_n but_o only_o that_o you_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o matter_n either_o of_o the_o one_o or_o other_o or_o rather_o they_o be_v for_o the_o live_n only_o for_o indulgence_n be_v not_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o the_o dead_a unless_o that_o be_v express_v in_o the_o grant_n which_o be_v not_o so_o express_v in_o this_o grant_n of_o you_o it_o be_v also_o false_a because_o the_o very_a thing_n which_o you_o say_v and_o will_v prove_v by_o your_o authority_n be_v false_a to_o wit_n that_o we_o give_v pardon_n for_o thousand_o of_o year_n in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n for_o we_o do_v not_o so_o neither_o do_v we_o understand_v those_o pardon_n wherein_o be_v mention_v such_o number_n of_o year_n so_o as_o if_o man_n be_v without_o those_o pardon_n to_o remain_v so_o long_o in_o purgatory_n but_o we_o understand_v those_o year_n according_a to_o the_o penitential_a canon_n by_o which_o many_o year_n penance_n be_v dew_n for_o one_o sin_n and_o many_o man_n sin_n be_v both_o very_a grievous_a and_o a_o man_n may_v say_v without_o number_n according_a to_o the_o account_n of_o the_o ancient_a penitential_a canon_n they_o may_v soon_o amount_v to_o thousand_o of_o year_n which_o though_o a_o man_n can_v live_v to_o perform_v here_o in_o this_o world_n nor_o even_o in_o purgatory_n for_o the_o length_n of_o time_n yet_o he_o may_v in_o purgatory_n in_o few_o year_n space_n nay_o few_o month_n or_o few_o week_n space_n suffer_v so_o much_o punishment_n as_o be_v answerable_a to_o all_o that_o penance_n of_o many_o thousand_o of_o year_n which_o a_o man_n shall_v have_v perform_v here_o if_o he_o can_v have_v live_v so_o long_o in_o which_o case_n a_o man_n may_v have_v a_o pardon_n of_o so_o many_o thousand_o year_n as_o well_o as_o a_o plenary_a both_o come_n to_o one_o what_o strangeness_n then_o or_o impossibility_n be_v therein_o this_o discourse_n if_o you_o do_v understand_v it_o that_o you_o shall_v think_v only_o by_o a_o scornful_a laugh_n to_o disgrace_n or_o disprove_v it_o it_o be_v also_o idle_a for_o you_o to_o urge_v any_o thing_n that_o you_o find_v in_o any_o old_a book_n as_o if_o that_o be_v present_o of_o uncontrollable_a authority_n be_v nothing_o so_o for_o we_o defend_v nothing_o but_o what_o have_v sufficient_a approbation_n or_o allowance_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o many_o such_o old_a book_n as_o you_o cite_v want_v you_o shall_v therefore_o have_v add_v that_o withal_o if_o you_o have_v mean_v to_o prove_v any_o thing_n thereby_o 9_o now_o after_o this_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o long_o before_o luther_n day_n by_o relation_n of_o thomas_n aquinas_n who_o yet_o you_o cite_v not_o but_o only_o out_o of_o valencia_n some_o whereof_o opinion_n that_o ecclesiastical_a indulgence_n of_o itself_o can_v remit_v no_o punishment_n neither_o in_o the_o court_n of_o god_n nor_o of_o the_o church_n but_o that_o they_o be_v a_o pious_a kind_n of_o fraud_n to_o draw_v man_n to_o do_v good_a work_n but_o this_o opinion_n you_o say_v the_o jesuit_n condemn_v for_o erroneous_a and_o why_o i_o pray_v you_o sir_n can_v you_o not_o as_o well_o say_v that_o s._n thomas_n do_v condemn_v the_o same_o not_o only_o for_o erroneous_a but_o impious_a also_o but_o only_o because_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n think_v it_o be_v condemn_v only_o by_o the_o jesuit_n and_o not_o by_o s._n thomas_n or_o rather_o that_o he_o do_v as_o it_o be_v wink_v at_o it_o but_o how_o far_a s._n thomas_n be_v from_o that_o and_o how_o free_a on_o the_o other_o side_n any_o man_n may_v see_v by_o this_o that_o put_v the_o question_n in_o the_o 1._o be_v of_o his_o â—5_n q._n of_o the_o suppl_n whither_o indulgence_n avail_v any_o thing_n he_o make_v answer_n that_o all_o grant_v that_o they_o avail_v something_o because_o it_o be_v impious_a say_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o church_n do_v do_v any_o thing_n in_o vain_a and_o in_o the_o 2._o art_n ask_v how_o much_o they_o avail_n he_o say_v that_o some_o say_v they_o avail_v to_o every_o one_o but_o according_a to_o their_o faith_n and_o devotion_n he_o himsef_n say_v it_o be_v very_o perilous_a to_o say_v that_o they_o do_v not_o avail_v so_o much_o as_o they_o sound_v that_o be_v to_o so_o much_o effect_n or_o pardon_n as_o they_o be_v give_v for_o wherefore_o the_o antiquity_n of_o this_o opinion_n nothing_o avail_v you_o but_o rather_o do_v you_o harm_n it_o be_v then_o condemn_v for_o a_o error_n as_o likewise_o it_o avail_v you_o not_o that_o you_o bring_v half_o a_o dozen_o of_o our_o author_n witness_v that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a proof_n of_o scripture_n nor_o of_o some_o ancient_a father_n as_o s._n aug._n hilary_n ambrose_n etc._n etc._n for_o indulgence_n for_o we_o grant_v there_o be_v not_o so_o express_v mention_n of_o they_o as_o of_o many_o other_o point_n because_o there_o be_v not_o so_o much_o use_v of_o they_o though_o out_o of_o some_o father_n also_o much_o more_o ancient_a then_o s._n aug._n hilary_n ambrose_n etc._n etc._n we_o prove_v the_o use_n of_o they_o to_o wit_n out_o of_o s._n cyprian_a and_o tertullian_n as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o bell._n the_o one_o above_o 100_o 3._o lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 3._o the_o other_o above_o 200._o before_o any_o of_o these_o father_n and_o beside_o they_o the_o authority_n of_o certain_a counsel_n as_o that_o of_o nice_n ancyra_n and_o laodicea_n though_o if_o we_o have_v not_o either_o of_o these_o father_n nor_o any_o else_o nor_o of_o these_o counsel_n yet_o will_v not_o that_o follow_v which_o you_o ground_n thereupon_o to_o wit_n that_o we_o want_v antiquity_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n for_o it_o be_v a_o
riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n that_o curio_n be_v a_o haeretique_n of_o the_o first_o class_n but_o pass_v from_o your_o merriment_n you_o tell_v we_o serious_o that_o you_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o strange_a presumption_n for_o a_o council_n to_o determine_v a_o uncertain_a doctrine_n upon_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o opinion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o you_o venture_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o senseless_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_v to_o it_o without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n your_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o fine_a rhetorical_a figure_n to_o say_v it_o be_v presumption_n by_o say_v you_o will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o will_v go_v the_o plain_a way_n to_o work_v with_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v intolerable_a presumption_n for_o you_o suppose_v you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o learning_n to_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o censure_v of_o presumption_n so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n wherein_o the_o whole_a flower_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o learning_n and_o sanctity_n be_v gather_v together_o the_o splendour_n whereof_o be_v so_o great_a that_o your_o night_n owl_n haeretique_n dare_v not_o once_o appear_v though_o they_o be_v invite_v and_o promise_v to_o go_v and_o come_v free_o with_o all_o the_o security_n they_o can_v wish_v and_o for_o such_o a_o fellow_n as_o you_o to_o make_v yourself_o judge_v thereof_o what_o intolerable_a presumption_n be_v it_o it_o be_v presumption_n with_o you_o forsooth_o for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n upon_o the_o perpetual_a and_o constant_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o upon_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o doctor_n be_v both_o of_o they_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o themselves_o there_o be_v withal_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n in_o the_o sense_n which_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v understand_v by_o catholic_a interpreter_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v be_v but_o from_o those_o that_o have_v go_v before_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o though_o you_o make_v a_o difference_n yet_o certain_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o catholic_a doctor_n in_o the_o present_a time_n as_o it_o be_v of_o holy_a father_n in_o former_a time_n who_o be_v the_o doctor_n of_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v father_n not_o so_o proper_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o time_n wherein_o they_o live_v as_o of_o succeed_a age_n so_o the_o doctor_n of_o these_o time_n be_v father_n in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o neither_o can_v the_o consent_n of_o doctor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n more_o err_v in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v always_o the_o same_o no_o less_o in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o 28._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 28._o and_o tertullian_n rule_n have_v still_o place_n as_o well_o in_o one_o age_n as_o another_o to_o wit_n quod_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la invenitur_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o among_o many_o be_v no_o error_n but_o a_o tradition_n the_o common_a consent_n therefore_o of_o doctor_n and_o particular_a church_n be_v always_o a_o sufficient_a argument_n of_o tradition_n and_o antiquity_n and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n against_o whatsoever_o novel_a fancy_n of_o any_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o control_v the_o same_o this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o we_o want_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o antiquity_n for_o any_o point_n but_o to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v it_o not_o so_o express_v in_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o the_o very_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o stop_n the_o mouth_n of_o any_o contentious_a haeretique_n no_o less_o then_o in_o ancient_a 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be_v warrantable_a without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o faith_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o scripture_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o time_n before_o christ_n faith_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o without_o writing_n as_o also_o by_o his_o apostle_n after_o he_o for_o many_o year_n without_o any_o word_n write_v and_o so_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n that_o as_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostolical_a preach_n then_o write_v so_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v still_o to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o word_n deliver_v we_o by_o tradition_n then_o by_o their_o writing_n the_o credit_n and_o sense_n even_o of_o their_o writing_n depend_v upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n among_o who_o the_o clean_a contrary_a principle_n be_v as_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a as_o this_o of_o you_o be_v with_o you_o
and_o you_o minister_n 14._o basil_n see_v tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 21._o epiph._n chrisost_o basil_n the_o particular_a testimony_n you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n to_o who_o i_o remit_v you_o only_o for_o s._n aug._n i_o can_v omit_v to_o make_v more_o particular_a mention_n of_o he_o in_o this_o place_n by_o reason_n of_o a_o certain_a sentence_n which_o you_o have_v bring_v in_o the_o end_n of_o this_o §_o as_o alsoe_o of_o every_o one_o of_o the_o 6._o 7._o damascen_n &_o alios_fw-la ap_fw-mi bell._n de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o forego_v §§_o still_o conclude_v with_o this_o say_n of_o that_o holy_a father_n sive_fw-la de_fw-la christo_fw-la five_o etc._n etc._n whether_o concern_v christ_n or_o concern_v the_o church_n or_o concern_v any_o other_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o our_o faith_n i_o will_v not_o say_v we_o who_o be_v no_o way_n to_o be_v compare_v to_o he_o that_o say_v but_o if_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n shall_v preach_v unto_o you_o beside_o what_o you_o have_v receive_v in_o the_o legal_a and_o evangelical_a scripture_n let_v he_o be_v anathema_n and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o for_o the_o most_o part_n add_v the_o particular_a controversy_n of_o that_o §_o as_o for_o example_n in_o this_o of_o indulgence_n you_o say_v if_o we_o or_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n preach_v unto_o you_o any_o thing_n concern_v the_o faith_n of_o indulgence_n beside_o that_o you_o have_v receive_v etc._n etc._n and_o so_o in_o every_o of_o the_o other_o particular_a point_n whereby_o you_o will_v persuade_v your_o reader_n that_o saint_n aug._n will_v have_v nothing_o believe_v but_o what_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o express_a word_n of_o scripture_n wherein_o i_o appeal_v to_o your_o own_o conscience_n as_o bad_a as_o it_o be_v whither_o this_o be_v not_o damnable_a dishonest_a deal_v both_o towards_o s._n aug._n and_o towards_o your_o reader_n for_o if_o you_o have_v read_v s._n aug._n as_o you_o pretend_v how_o can_v you_o be_v ignorant_a how_o many_o point_n of_o faith_n he_o do_v defend_v against_o several_a haeretique_n either_o only_a or_o chief_o by_o the_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n 23._o de_fw-fr bap._n câ—nt_fw-la donat._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 7._o &_o lib._n 5._o cap._n 23._o as_o single_a baptism_n against_o the_o donatist_n consubstantiality_n of_o the_o son_n divinity_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o even_o unbegottenesse_n of_o the_o father_n the_o first_o person_n in_o trinity_n against_o the_o arrian_n and_o the_o baptism_n of_o child_n against_o pelagius_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a 118._o cont._n maxi._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o &_o ep_n 174._o de_fw-fr genes_n ad_fw-la literam_fw-la lib._n 10._o cap._n 23._o de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la ep_v 118._o observation_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o easter_n ascension_n whitsuntide_n and_o the_o like_a nay_o this_o truth_n be_v so_o ground_v with_o he_o that_o he_o count_v it_o most_o insolent_a madness_n to_o dispute_v against_o the_o common_a opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n with_o he_o as_o that_o he_o say_v in_o one_o place_n that_o when_o we_o follow_v it_o we_o follow_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n these_o be_v his_o word_n scripturarum_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la tenetur_fw-la veritas_fw-la cum_fw-la id_fw-la facimus_fw-la etc._n etc._n 33._o lib._n 1._o cont_n crescon_n cap._n 33._o the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v hold_v by_o we_o when_o we_o do_v that_o which_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o church_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o do_v commend_v that_o because_o the_o holy_a scripture_n can_v deceive_v whosoever_o be_v afraid_a to_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o this_o question_n may_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n the_o which_o the_o holy_a scripture_n without_o any_o ambiguity_n do_v demonstrate_v unto_o we_o so_o he_o there_o and_o that_o it_o may_v far_o appear_v that_o to_o deny_v this_o authority_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o only_o to_o deny_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n but_o even_o of_o christ_n himself_o i_o can_v here_o omit_v to_o note_v a_o place_n of_o the_o same_o saint_n his_o book_n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la where_o he_o treat_v this_o very_a point_n very_o particular_o and_o excellent_o so_o as_o to_o take_v away_o all_o doubt_n of_o his_o opinion_n therein_o for_o here_o he_o do_v of_o purpose_n intend_v to_o show_v that_o where_o plain_a proof_n of_o scripture_n be_v want_v we_o must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n prove_v it_o thus_o by_o occasion_n of_o the_o question_n of_o rebaptisation_n and_o suppose_v that_o there_o be_v no_o proof_n of_o scripture_n either_o way_n puto_fw-la si_fw-la aliquis_fw-la sapiens_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o think_v say_v he_o if_o there_o be_v any_o wise_a man_n of_o who_o our_o 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will_v give_v he_o leave_v to_o take_v he_o for_o his_o own_o to_o increase_v his_o church_n and_o make_v up_o his_o number_n of_o learned_a man_n for_o no_o man_n but_o a_o haeretique_n can_v dispute_v against_o what_o be_v once_o define_v catholic_a doctor_n may_v indeed_o differ_v in_o opinion_n so_o long_o as_o a_o thing_n be_v undefined_a for_o so_o long_o it_o be_v not_o faith_n but_o when_o it_o be_v once_o define_v they_o must_v be_v silent_a and_o concur_v all_o in_o one_o because_o than_o it_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n which_o agreement_n and_o concurrence_n of_o opinion_n in_o such_o a_o case_n show_v there_o be_v still_o before_o a_o kind_n of_o radical_a union_n that_o be_v a_o praeparation_n of_o mind_n or_o promptness_n to_o submit_v to_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n when_o it_o shall_v show_v itself_o wherefore_o whatsoever_o he_o or_o any_o man_n else_o shall_v say_v of_o our_o difference_n be_v but_o argument_n for_o the_o unity_n and_o certainty_n of_o our_o 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own_o different_a from_o both_o and_o if_o the_o reader_n please_v to_o mark_v it_o all_o the_o knight_n proof_n of_o antiquity_n be_v the_o denial_n or_o doubt_n make_v by_o some_o one_o of_o our_o writer_n though_o that_o one_o of_o we_o be_v much_o more_o against_o he_o in_o other_o thing_n as_o a_o man_n may_v see_v both_o in_o caietane_n scotus_n and_o the_o rest_n as_o i_o say_v before_o his_o discourse_n then_o in_o this_o be_v as_o devoid_a of_o reason_n as_o his_o doctrine_n be_v of_o antiquity_n 5._o in_o his_o â—_o point_n he_o bring_v a_o great_a many_o authoritye_n to_o prove_v that_o ancient_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v every_o day_n with_o the_o priest_n which_o we_o grant_v and_o ask_v again_o what_o this_o derogate_v from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o doctrine_n or_o how_o it_o prove_v that_o a_o priest_n be_v bind_v to_o forbear_v say_v mass_n if_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o communicate_v or_o that_o it_o be_v ill_a and_o unlawful_a for_o he_o to_o say_v 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in_o both_o and_o we_o grant_v it_o but_o we_o say_v it_o be_v also_o use_v in_o one_o many_o time_n and_o may_v have_v be_v more_o and_o may_v also_o be_v now_o in_o one_o or_o both_o as_o it_o shall_v seem_v good_a to_o the_o church_n according_a to_o diverse_a circumstance_n in_o who_o power_n be_v the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n how_o do_v the_o affirm_v of_o the_o former_a part_n or_o deny_v of_o the_o late_a prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n which_o be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o administer_v in_o one_o kind_n for_o public_a prayer_n he_o say_v out_o of_o some_o of_o our_o author_n it_o be_v use_v in_o a_o know_a tongue_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n we_o grant_v it_o and_o say_v
i_o take_v you_o in_o earnest_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o mean_v it_o and_o ask_v what_o certainty_n you_o or_o any_o protestant_n have_v or_o can_v have_v that_o you_o be_v christian_n if_o you_o think_v that_o your_o christianity_n depend_v upon_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n if_o you_o think_v it_o do_v not_o as_o it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o puritan_n indeed_o that_o baptism_n be_v not_o any_o cause_n of_o grace_n but_o only_o a_o sign_n or_o seal_n of_o the_o adoption_n which_o they_o receive_v by_o carnal_a propagation_n from_o their_o faithful_a parent_n and_o it_o seem_v also_o you_o by_o what_o you_o say_v both_o here_o and_o before_o in_o your_o 4._o §_o of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n if_o i_o say_v you_o think_v so_o than_o i_o confess_v you_o need_v not_o fear_v the_o minister_n want_n of_o intention_n but_o that_o pertain_v to_o another_o disputation_n but_o yet_o you_o have_v as_o little_a certainty_n or_o less_o of_o your_o 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you_o put_v it_o out_o from_o among_o the_o sacrament_n and_o of_o it_o i_o ask_v what_o certainty_n you_o can_v have_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o your_o own_o marriage_n or_o legitimation_n of_o you_o child_n you_o can_v say_v but_o the_o validity_n of_o that_o contract_n depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o party_n though_o not_o of_o your_o minister_n as_o we_o alsoe_o say_v it_o depend_v not_o upon_o the_o intention_n of_o our_o priest_n but_o of_o the_o party_n which_o marry_v which_o we_o say_v common_o be_v the_o minister_n in_o this_o sacrament_n wherefore_o if_o for_o example_n your_o wife_n have_v no_o intention_n when_o she_o speak_v the_o word_n of_o marriage_n it_o be_v no_o marriage_n but_o fornication_n and_o consequent_o your_o child_n be_v bastard_n nay_o though_o the_o matter_n shall_v have_v depend_v whole_o upon_o your_o own_o intention_n in_o your_o marriage_n and_o that_o you_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o sure_a of_o it_o than_o you_o 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this_o or_o that_o particular_a case_n for_o want_n of_o intention_n matter_n form_n or_o the_o like_a yet_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o providence_n of_o almighty_a god_n not_o to_o permit_v any_o universal_a or_o even_o great_a defect_n to_o happen_v and_o so_o though_o we_o be_v not_o certain_a by_o certainty_n of_o divine_a faith_n that_o this_o or_o that_o man_n in_o particular_a be_v true_o baptize_v and_o ordain_v a_o priest_n yet_o we_o be_v certain_a by_o the_o certainty_n of_o divine_a faith_n that_o not_o only_o there_o be_v such_o sacrament_n but_o that_o they_o be_v also_o true_o administer_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n so_o as_o there_o can_v be_v no_o danger_n of_o the_o fail_a of_o either_o or_o of_o any_o danger_n which_o may_v ensue_v thereupon_o to_o the_o notable_a prejudice_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n of_o soul_n and_o withal_o though_o we_o be_v not_o certain_a by_o certainty_n of_o faith_n of_o every_o particular_a yet_o we_o have_v moral_a certainty_n that_o be_v as_o much_o certainty_n as_o there_o can_v be_v of_o any_o humane_a thing_n which_o depend_v of_o the_o action_n or_o intention_n of_o any_o man_n which_o as_o we_o see_v it_o be_v enough_o for_o man_n to_o rest_v themselves_o secure_a in_o all_o worldy_a matter_n concern_v their_o life_n and_o good_n which_o most_o man_n prize_v above_o their_o soul_n so_o it_o may_v also_o give_v a_o man_n sufficient_a security_n in_o matter_n of_o his_o soul_n especial_o since_o as_o we_o say_v if_o he_o be_v not_o want_v to_o himself_o almighty_a god_n will_v not_o of_o his_o goodness_n suffer_v he_o through_o another_o man_n fault_n to_o want_v any_o thing_n necessary_a for_o his_o salvation_n but_o will_v incite_v he_o to_o contrition_n for_o forgiveness_n of_o his_o sin_n or_o to_o make_v doubt_n and_o seek_v whether_o he_o have_v those_o necessary_a thing_n or_o no_o but_o yet_o with_o this_o security_n there_o remain_v a_o place_n for_o a_o holy_a fear_n which_o may_v keep_v down_o our_o pride_n and_o make_v we_o shake_v of_o all_o torpour_n exercise_v ourselves_o in_o good_a work_n and_o work_v our_o salvation_n with_o fear_n and_o tremble_a but_o of_o this_o kind_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v not_o that_o we_o mean_v when_o we_o dispute_v with_o haeretique_n of_o the_o certainty_n of_o true_a faith_n but_o of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v a_o belief_n and_o doctrine_n deliver_v in_o general_a abstract_n from_o this_o or_o that_o man_n whether_o he_o believe_v aright_o or_o be_v certain_a of_o his_o belief_n that_o be_v that_o he_o believe_v wherefore_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o change_v the_o question_n herein_o you_o commit_v a_o notable_a gross_a aequivocation_n of_o term_n which_o be_v a_o foul_a fault_n in_o a_o scholar_n as_o you_o be_v forsooth_o 9_o but_o from_o this_o you_o pass_v to_o another_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n or_o rather_o a_o other_o kind_n of_o proof_n of_o our_o uncertainty_n thus_o you_o say_v we_o be_v uncertain_a whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n or_o not_o and_o whither_o some_o that_o we_o pray_v unto_o be_v saint_n in_o heaven_n or_o devil_n in_o hell_n the_o late_a you_o prove_v out_o of_o caiet_fw-mi because_o he_o say_v that_o the_o miracle_n whereon_o the_o church_n ground_v the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n can_v be_v infallible_o know_v and_o out_o of_o saint_n august_n and_o sulpitius_n the_o one_o say_v some_o be_v torment_v in_o hell_n which_o be_v worship_v on_o earth_n the_o other_o say_v that_o the_o common_a people_n worship_v for_o a_o martyr_n one_o that_o be_v damn_v and_o who_o appear_v and_o tell_v they_o so_o the_o former_a uncertainty_n to_o wit_n whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n 45._o gab._n in_o can_n lect_v 31._o mag._n in_o 4._o d._n 45._o you_o prove_v out_o
you_o see_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v idol-worship_n and_o approve_v image-worship_n neither_o do_v your_o note_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n in_o the_o margin_n in_o proof_n that_o s._n peter_n speak_v of_o idol-worship_n avail_v you_o for_o val._n speak_v only_o of_o the_o latin_a word_n which_o be_v more_o indifferent_a and_o in_o some_o author_n signify_v the_o same_o that_o imago_fw-la and_o even_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o be_v now_o by_o the_o use_n of_o father_n counsel_n and_o doctor_n determine_v to_o signify_v a_o empty_a or_o vain_a image_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n 7.4_o cor._n 7.4_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n respect_v the_o primitive_a signification_n or_o etymology_n it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v take_v more_o indifferent_o for_o it_o come_v from_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v species_n or_o forma_fw-la the_o seem_a shape_n or_o beauty_n of_o a_o thing_n or_o person_n but_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o word_n we_o must_v follow_v the_o ecclesiastical_a rule_n neither_o do_v i_o allow_v valencia_n his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la and_o explication_n of_o s._n peter_n text_n or_o even_o his_o argument_n draw_v from_o thence_o though_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o defend_v be_v true_a to_o wit_n image-worship_n but_o this_o be_v to_o show_v you_o how_o he_o may_v use_v the_o word_n harmeles_o especial_o declare_v himself_o plain_o by_o other_o word_n though_o for_o you_o to_o stand_v trifle_v &_o contend_v about_o word_n when_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o your_o want_n of_o matter_n but_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o note_v how_o to_o urge_v the_o matter_n more_o against_o valentia_n you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n for_o you_o observe_v that_o the_o word_n use_v by_o saint_n peter_n in_o that_o place_n signify_v idol-worship_n not_o image-worship_n wherein_o you_o seem_v plain_o to_o confess_v that_o image-worship_n and_o idol-worship_n and_o consequent_o a_o image_n and_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o whereby_o as_o you_o think_v to_o advantage_v you_o self_n in_o this_o place_n against_o the_o jesuit_n so_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v that_o herein_o you_o contradict_v your_o self_n and_o the_o whole_a currant_n of_o your_o own_o doctor_n who_o chief_a argument_n against_o image_n be_v certain_a place_n of_o scripture_n against_o idol_n which_o you_o also_o bring_v before_o for_o if_o a_o image_n &_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o then_o be_v all_o your_o argument_n nothing_o worth_a or_o if_o they_o be_v then_o be_v valentia_n argument_n good_a choose_v which_o you_o will_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o cast_v up_o your_o count_n aright_o you_o will_v find_v you_o have_v lose_v more_o than_o you_o have_v gain_v by_o this_o citation_n of_o valencia_n 15._o a_o five_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n you_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n concern_v the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a say_v bellarmine_n but_o concern_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o canus_n you_o say_v the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o they_o do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o give_v grace_n or_o no_o thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o place_n of_o bellarm._n you_o be_v convince_v before_o of_o manifest_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellarm._n say_v it_o be_v certain_a fine_a cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o in_o fine_a but_o not_o so_o manifest_v you_o leave_v out_o not_o manifest_a and_o change_v certain_a into_o not_o certain_a beside_o what_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v be_v not_o manifest_v but_o certain_a that_o these_o two_o be_v sacrament_n the_o rest_n not_o noe_o such_o matter_n sir_n knight_n it_o be_v their_o signification_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o &_o yet_o not_o their_o signification_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o cause_n but_o their_o signify_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o sacrament_n this_o signification_n he_o say_v be_v certain_a but_o not_o so_o evident_a in_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o canus_n you_o corrupt_v he_o as_o foul_o also_o for_o first_o you_o join_v two_o several_a place_n together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v but_o one_o in_o canus_n himself_o &_o then_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o divine_n do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o that_o be_v matrimony_n give_v grace_n or_o no_o which_o be_v most_o flat_o false_a for_o as_o i_o show_v before_o he_o grant_v it_o with_o all_o divine_n to_o be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n his_o two_o place_n several_o be_v thus_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o diverse_o of_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o it_o be_v folly_n for_o a_o man_n to_o resolve_v any_o thing_n certain_a this_o be_v one_o whereof_o i_o speak_v more_o before_o &_o show_v that_o his_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a whither_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o or_o whither_o it_o have_v a_o matter_n and_o form_n 4._o cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o for_o that_o i_o show_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o by_o most_o express_a word_n of_o his_o own_o but_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v determinate_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n which_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a for_o we_o to_o know_v but_o that_o without_o it_o we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a sacrament_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o know_v what_o be_v requisite_a for_o celebrate_v a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o what_o those_o thing_n be_v without_o 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the_o last_o matter_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o say_v you_o be_v uncertain_a whereas_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o give_v we_o certainty_n for_o this_o say_n you_o allege_v no_o catholic_n true_o nor_o false_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v count_v of_o be_v so_o manifest_o false_a for_o whence_o have_v we_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o very_a scripture_n themselves_o but_o by_o tradition_n and_o much_o more_o of_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n beside_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o show_v this_o your_o prime_a principle_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o contrary_a to_o express_v scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o father_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o whole_a treatise_n write_v hereof_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o your_o section_n of_o certainty_n we_o find_v nothing_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n uncertain_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n nothing_o certain_a on_o your_o side_n but_o only_o that_o you_o be_v always_o and_o every_o where_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v of_o the_o 11._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 11._o chap._n 11._o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o great_a safety_n comfort_n and_o benefit_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o protestant_a faith_n then_o in_o the_o romish_a chapter_n xi_o 1._o from_z certainty_n you_o come_v to_o safety_n whereof_o you_o need_v not_o have_v make_v so_o distinct_a mention_n and_o proof_n it_o follow_v necessary_o and_o manifest_o that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o itself_o be_v also_o most_o safe_a for_o man_n to_o follow_v as_o also_o it_o can_v be_v safe_a without_o certainty_n wherefore_o as_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o certain_a in_o your_o former_a
what_o then_o what_o be_v this_o to_o many_o other_o point_n which_o we_o say_v can_v be_v know_v by_o only_a scripture_n be_v this_o a_o good_a consequence_n the_o church_n be_v know_v by_o only_a scripture_n ergo_fw-la all_o thing_n else_o and_o even_o scripture_n itself_o be_v know_v only_o by_o scripture_n sure_o no_o and_o yet_o this_o consequence_n must_v be_v good_a or_o else_o sir_n humphrey_n your_o argument_n be_v not_o good_a beside_o these_o word_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o scripture_n compare_v with_o other_o write_n that_o be_v that_o the_o church_n be_v know_v to_o we_o only_o by_o scripture_n not_o by_o other_o write_n whereof_o either_o none_o speak_v so_o clear_o of_o the_o church_n or_o none_o be_v like_o thereunto_o for_o authority_n which_o yet_o do_v not_o exclude_v other_o proof_n or_o mark_n of_o the_o church_n and_o indeed_o the_o church_n be_v most_o know_v and_o best_a prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n of_o any_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o this_o that_o s._n aug._n prove_v the_o same_o so_o notable_o out_o of_o scripture_n only_o against_o the_o donatist_n in_o a_o particular_a book_n of_o that_o matter_n 30._o de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccle_n aug._n in_o psal_n 30._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v the_o scripture_n speak_v more_o plain_o of_o the_o church_n then_o of_o christ_n himself_o because_o the_o holy_a ghost_n foresee_v it_o be_v more_o to_o be_v contradict_v and_o what_o may_v not_o these_o word_n be_v take_v somewhat_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n but_o this_o shall_v serve_v for_o that_o place_n 3._o you_o come_v next_o with_o two_o place_n of_o saint_n aug._n whereof_o one_o be_v answer_v before_o and_o it_o be_v only_o where_o you_o tell_v we_o he_o say_v that_o many_o be_v torment_v with_o the_o devil_n who_o be_v worship_v by_o man_n on_o earth_n to_o this_o bellarmine_n say_v you_o answer_v that_o perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o s._n augustine_n make_v you_o reader_n believe_v as_o if_o bell._n neither_o give_v other_o answer_n nor_o any_o reason_n of_o this_o answer_n whereas_o he_o do_v both_o his_o reason_n why_o he_o think_v it_o not_o saint_n augustine_n be_v both_o because_o he_o can_v never_o find_v any_o such_o place_n in_o he_o &_o it_o be_v like_a he_o shall_v find_v it_o if_o it_o be_v there_o he_o have_v be_v so_o diligent_a a_o reader_n of_o s._n augu._n as_o appear_v by_o his_o work_n he_o be_v 9_o bell._n de_fw-fr sanct._n beat_v lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o as_o alsoe_o because_o no_o haeretique_n that_o object_v it_o do_v note_v the_o place_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v find_v as_o they_o be_v wont_v to_o do_v in_o their_o other_o objection_n and_o it_o be_v like_a will_v do_v in_o this_o if_o they_o can_v find_v it_o but_o because_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v a_o man_n so_o well_o read_v in_o s._n aug._n and_o stand_v so_o upon_o answer_n of_o this_o place_n do_v you_o but_o tell_v we_o where_o it_o be_v and_o you_o shall_v then_o see_v what_o we_o will_v say_v unto_o you_o mean_v while_o look_v a_o little_a better_o in_o bellar._n again_o and_o tell_v we_o whether_o there_o be_v not_o 3._o or_o 4._o other_o answer_n see_v also_o before_o cap._n 10._o the_o other_o place_n of_o saint_n augu._n be_v as_o you_o say_v touch_v the_o pope_n supremacy_n because_o s._n augu._n in_o those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n thou_o be_v peter_n and_o upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n take_v not_o peter_n and_o this_o rock_n to_o be_v all_o one_o but_o the_o rock_n to_o be_v our_o saviour_n himself_o and_o petrus_n to_o be_v a_o derivative_n only_o of_o petra_n to_o which_o you_o tell_v we_o stapleton_n make_v answer_n that_o it_o be_v lapsus_fw-la humanus_fw-la for_o want_v of_o knowledge_n of_o the_o greek_a and_o cause_v by_o the_o diversity_n of_o the_o two_o language_n latin_a and_o greek_a which_o answer_n though_o you_o relate_v in_o a_o slight_a fashion_n as_o if_o you_o take_v it_o to_o be_v in_o sufficient_a yet_o you_o neither_o do_v nor_o indeed_o can_v say_v against_o it_o if_o you_o know_v greek_n and_o latin_a or_o if_o you_o do_v not_o go_v but_o to_o some_o of_o your_o minister_n and_o get_v they_o to_o look_v in_o their_o own_o greek_a lexicon_n i_o mean_v set_v out_o by_o haeretique_n and_o see_v whether_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v a_o adiective_n and_o a_o derivative_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o a_o substantive_a signify_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n and_o let_v they_o look_v yet_o far_o into_o the_o original_a tongue_n itself_o to_o wit_n the_o syriake_n wherein_o our_o saviour_n speak_v 25._o lib._n 1._o ro_n pontif_n cap._n 25._o and_o see_v whither_o they_o be_v not_o more_o the_o same_o to_o wit_n the_o only_a word_n cephas_n in_o both_o place_n on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v well_o know_a saint_n augu._n profess_v no_o great_a skill_n in_o greek_a as_o he_o witness_v of_o himself_o in_o many_o place_n 165._o aug._n in_o psal_n count_v partem_fw-la donat_n &_o ep_v 165._o beside_o saint_n augu._n do_v not_o bring_v this_o exposition_n to_o derogate_v from_o saint_n peter_n primacy_n which_o he_o confess_v in_o 20._o place_n as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o where_o for_o proof_n thereof_o he_o use_v the_o very_a word_n petra_n which_o here_o he_o distinguish_v from_o petrus_n call_v the_o seat_n of_o peter_n this_o rook_n numerate_v sacerdotes_fw-la ab_fw-la ipsa_fw-la sede_fw-la petri_n ipsa_fw-la est_fw-la petra_fw-la quam_fw-la non_fw-la vincunt_fw-la superbae_fw-la inferorum_fw-la porte_fw-fr reckon_v say_v he_o to_o the_o donatist_n the_o priest_n from_o even_o the_o seat_n of_o peter_n that_o be_v the_o rock_n which_o the_o proud_a gate_n of_o hell_n do_v not_o overcome_v how_o then_o do_v he_o deny_v s._n peter_n primacy_n and_o perpetuity_n of_o his_o sea_n again_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o may_v find_v other_o answer_n for_o saint_n augu._n himself_o in_o his_o retractation_n put_v both_o the_o explication_n wherein_o the_o word_n petrae_fw-la be_v speak_v of_o christ_n and_o of_o peter_n leave_v the_o choice_n to_o the_o reader_n allow_v both_o interpretation_n which_o you_o do_v not_o because_o one_o be_v flat_a against_o you_o whereas_o we_o do_v not_o reject_v either_o as_o be_v against_o we_o but_o only_o we_o show_v the_o one_o not_o to_o be_v so_o good_a because_o it_o stand_v not_o so_o with_o the_o original_a tongue_n which_o that_o saint_n be_v not_o so_o well_o skill_v in_o and_o literal_a sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o no_o haeretique_n can_v deny_v 4._o the_o 3._o place_n be_v out_o of_o s._n ignatius_n for_o proof_n of_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n 26_o bellar._n de_fw-fr euchar._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 26_o one_o cup_n be_v distribute_v to_o all_o to_o which_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n make_v answer_n that_o in_o the_o latin_a book_n it_o be_v not_o find_v that_o one_o cup_n be_v give_v to_o all_o but_o for_o all_o against_o which_o you_o can_v say_v nothing_o but_o give_v i_o cause_n to_o say_v much_o against_o you_o for_o first_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o say_v one_o cup_n be_v give_v for_o all_o but_o say_v unus_fw-la calix_fw-la totius_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la one_o cup_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o be_v the_o true_a read_n and_o indeed_o another_o thing_n second_o though_o you_o make_v as_o if_o bellarmine_n do_v only_o bare_o say_v this_o without_o far_a reason_n or_o proof_n yet_o be_v it_o far_o otherwise_o for_o as_o for_o the_o read_n he_o say_v that_o though_o the_o greek_a have_v it_o as_o the_o haeretique_n common_o cite_v that_o be_v as_o you_o do_v here_o yet_o the_o true_a read_n be_v as_o the_o latin_a translation_n which_o we_o follow_v have_v it_o whereto_o he_o say_v there_o be_v more_o trust_n to_o be_v have_v then_o to_o the_o greek_a book_n of_o s._n ignatius_n which_o we_o have_v now_o whereof_o he_o bring_v this_o proof_n that_o the_o testimony_n cite_v out_o of_o he_o as_o we_o find_v in_o the_o work_n of_o s._n anastasius_n and_o theodoret_n agree_v better_o with_o our_o latin_a translation_n then_o the_o greek_a which_o be_v now_o extant_a which_o be_v a_o plain_a proof_n of_o the_o betterne_n and_o great_a pureness_n thereof_o as_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a greek_a edition_n beside_o that_o bellarmine_n prove_v this_o even_o out_o of_o the_o magdeburgian_o because_o they_o cite_v this_o very_a place_n at_o we_o do_v neither_o do_v he_o answer_v this_o authority_n only_o by_o the_o variety_n of_o the_o read_n but_o withal_o he_o give_v 2._o answer_n more_o one_o that_o s._n ignatius_n put_v all_o the_o force_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o cup_n thus_o that_o though_o many_o eat_v &_o many_o drink_n
sense_n for_o ask_v any_o schoolboy_n whether_o cùm_fw-la with_o the_o subiunctive_a and_o indicative_a mood_n be_v all_o one_o the_o thing_n which_o you_o leave_v out_o be_v s._n hierom_n authority_n which_o bellarmine_n allege_v thus_o see_v say_v he_o it_o be_v evident_a as_o saint_n hiero._n speak_v that_o he_o be_v no_o man_n of_o the_o church_n these_o be_v saint_n hierom_n very_a word_n here_o than_o you_o see_v again_o that_o it_o be_v saint_n hierome_n not_o bellarmine_n alone_a that_o do_v reject_v tertullian_n nor_o be_v saint_n hierome_n alone_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n in_o this_o opinion_n of_o he_o but_o almost_o all_o the_o father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v he_o be_v by_o his_o fall_n a_o great_a temptation_n to_o many_o 5._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 24._o hilar._n in_o comment_n in_o math._n cap._n 5._o and_o saint_n hilarius_n say_v there_o that_o tertullian_n late_a error_n do_v detract_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o authority_n from_o his_o approve_a writing_n so_o than_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n if_o bellarmine_n make_v small_a account_n of_o he_o where_o he_o contradict_v other_o father_n and_o so_o you_o may_v say_v that_o s._n hierome_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n and_o s._n hilarius_n reject_v and_o elude_v the_o father_n as_o well_o as_o bellarmine_n 12._o the_o 11._o be_v saint_n hierome_n of_o who_o you_o say_v that_o if_o you_o cite_v he_o canus_n make_v answer_n hierome_n be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n 11._o can._n de_fw-fr locis_fw-la lib._n 2._o cap._n 11._o but_o you_o tell_v we_o not_o where_o or_o upon_o what_o occasion_n you_o cite_v saint_n hierome_n no_o more_o than_o you_o do_v the_o three_o former_a father_n though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o that_o matter_n that_o canus_n speak_v of_o which_o be_v the_o canon_n of_o scripture_n you_o have_v saint_n hierome_n a_o little_a more_o before_o you_o in_o show_v then_o in_o any_o thing_n else_o or_o more_o than_o you_o have_v any_o other_o of_o the_o father_n yet_o i_o dare_v say_v you_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o stand_v to_o his_o judgement_n even_o in_o that_o very_a matter_n for_o though_o this_o saint_n reckon_v the_o book_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n according_a to_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o jew_n which_o you_o also_o follow_v if_o a_o man_n shall_v urge_v you_o with_o s._n hieromes_n authority_n even_o in_o this_o point_n i_o believe_v you_o will_v say_v the_o same_o or_o more_o than_o canus_n do_v to_o wit_n that_o he_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n for_o s._n hierosme_n allow_v the_o book_n of_o judith_n to_o be_v canonical_a scripture_n judith_n proef._n in_o judith_n though_o it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o jew_n canon_n which_o yet_o you_o reject_v and_o on_o the_o contrary_n he_o say_v of_o saint_n peter_n second_o epistle_n à _fw-la plaerisque_fw-la reijcitur_fw-la it_o be_v reject_v by_o most_o apost_n descript_n eccle_n verb._n petrus_n apost_n wherein_o yet_o you_o do_v not_o follow_v he_o this_o be_v for_o the_o matter_n now_o for_o the_o 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not_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o invocate_v angel_n say_v withal_o that_o in_o the_o same_o council_n publish_v by_o merlin_n and_o crabbe_n by_o change_n of_o a_o letter_n angelos_n be_v turn_v into_o angulos_fw-la angel_n into_o angle_n and_o corner_n thus_o that_o we_o must_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o have_v recourse_n to_o angle_n or_o corner_n and_o this_o say_v you_o lest_o so_o fair_a a_o evidence_n of_o a_o ancient_a council_n shall_v be_v produce_v against_o invocation_n of_o angel_n council_n v._o bin._n to_o 1._o council_n thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_z wherein_o first_o be_v to_o be_v note_v your_o error_n in_o chronology_n concern_v the_o time_n of_o this_o council_n which_o you_o make_v to_o be_v the_o year_n 368._o which_o be_v 43._o 35._o con._n laodien_n can_v 35._o year_n after_o the_o 1._o council_n of_o nice_a whereas_o it_o be_v celebrate_v before_o that_o council_n second_o your_o corruption_n in_o the_o translation_n and_o cut_n of_o of_o the_o canon_n which_o be_v thus_o non_fw-la oportet_fw-la relicta_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la ad_fw-la angelos_n abominandae_fw-la idolatriae_fw-la congregrationes_fw-la facere_fw-la quicunque_fw-la autem_fw-la inventus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la occultae_fw-la huic_fw-la idololaetriae_fw-la vacans_fw-la anathema_n sit_fw-la quoniam_fw-la relinquens_fw-la dominum_fw-la jesum_fw-la christum_fw-la filium_fw-la dei_fw-la accessit_fw-la ad_fw-la idola_fw-la no_o man_n must_v leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n make_v congregation_n to_o the_o angel_n of_o abominable_a idolatry_n and_o whosoever_o shall_v be_v find_v exercise_v this_o secret_a idolatry_n let_v he_o be_v anathema_n because_o leave_v jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n he_o have_v come_v to_o idol_n now_o where_o in_o this_o canon_n do_v you_o find_v the_o word_n invocation_n of_o angel_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v forbid_v and_o much_o less_o do_v you_o find_v such_o invocation_n of_o angel_n as_o we_o use_v for_o in_o this_o canon_n be_v only_o forbid_v such_o idolatrical_a invocation_n as_o the_o simonian_n and_o other_o haeretique_n do_v use_v praefer_v the_o angel_n before_o christ_n and_o make_v they_o the_o creator_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o only_a or_o chief_a mediator_n without_o who_o help_n there_o be_v no_o access_n to_o be_v have_v to_o god_n which_o be_v the_o same_o wicked_a haeresy_n which_o saint_n paul_n speak_v against_o coloss_n 2._o as_o all_o interpreter_n understand_v he_o by_o who_o word_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o those_o haeretique_n leave_v christ_n and_o have_v recourse_n to_o angel_n in_o this_o sense_n nemo_fw-la vos_fw-la seducat_fw-la non_fw-la tenens_fw-la caput_fw-la etc._n etc._n let_v no_o man_n seduce_v you_o not_o hold_v the_o head_n that_o be_v not_o hold_v by_o christ_n now_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o we_o by_o invocation_n of_o angel_n forsake_v christ_n
to_o name_v that_o father_n or_o catholic_a doctor_n to_o who_o judgement_n we_o will_v not_o stand_v for_o trial_n of_o the_o controversy_n between_o you_o and_o we_o and_o if_o he_o be_v for_o you_o in_o one_o i_o will_v undertake_v he_o shall_v be_v against_o you_o in_o 5._o or_o 10._o other_o for_o that_o one_o with_o what_o face_n then_o can_v you_o say_v we_o decline_v they_o but_o because_o i_o imagine_v you_o reflect_v most_o in_o this_o say_n upon_o this_o worthy_a work_n of_o your_o own_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o indifferent_a reader_n whether_o i_o have_v so_o decline_v one_o author_n either_o modern_a or_o ancient_a or_o whether_o i_o have_v not_o show_v every_o one_o which_o you_o have_v bring_v to_o be_v quite_o against_o you_o now_o for_o the_o scripture_n because_o you_o say_v we_o decline_v it_o as_o unperfect_a i_o challenge_v you_o to_o name_v the_o man_n that_o say_v it_o be_v unperfect_a &_o for_o that_o reason_n decline_v it_o you_o father_v indeed_o that_o term_n upon_o lessius_fw-la but_o i_o show_v it_o to_o be_v most_o false_a for_o that_o he_o have_v not_o the_o word_n at_o all_o in_o that_o chapter_n much_o less_o do_v he_o say_v it_o of_o scripture_n and_o less_o again_o do_v he_o decline_v the_o trial_n thereof_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o imperfection_n but_o only_o in_o regard_n that_o it_o be_v a_o write_a word_n no_o haeretique_n can_v be_v convince_v by_o it_o as_o i_o show_v also_o even_o now_o out_o of_o tertullian_n who_o say_v it_o be_v but_o lose_a labour_n to_o dispute_v with_o a_o haeretique_n out_o of_o scripture_n but_o because_o i_o see_v your_o drift_n in_o the_o often_o repetition_n of_o the_o word_n imperfect_a be_v only_o to_o beget_v in_o man_n mind_n a_o hard_a conceit_n of_o we_o â—_o de_fw-fr prâ—â—_n cap._n â—_o as_o if_o we_o make_v small_a account_n of_o scripture_n i_o will_v know_v of_o you_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v preserve_v the_o scripture_n with_o such_o care_n for_o so_o many_o age_n who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v translate_v commentend_v and_o expound_v they_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v make_v so_o many_o decree_n in_o particular_a and_o general_a counsel_n for_o the_o preservation_n authority_n reverence_n and_o due_a use_n of_o they_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v fill_v library_n with_o learned_a work_n not_o only_o expound_v the_o particular_a passage_n but_o frequent_o and_o large_o declare_v their_o necessity_n dignity_n utility_n and_o other_o perfection_n â—p_n veu_n b._n 2_o â—p_n sr._n â—p_n let_v any_o man_n by_o these_o effect_n judge_v who_o reverence_v they_o most_o catholic_n or_o protestant_n let_v he_o compare_v the_o labour_n of_o the_o one_o with_o the_o labour_n of_o the_o other_o and_o then_o he_o shall_v soon_o find_v the_o truth_n of_o this_o matter_n 8._o but_o because_o you_o still_o talk_v of_o our_o decline_a of_o scripture_n beside_o that_o it_o be_v false_a as_o i_o say_v before_o for_o we_o be_v content_a to_o admit_v any_o kind_n of_o trial_n with_o you_o to_o take_v that_o alsoe_o out_o of_o your_o mouth_n i_o answer_v you_o far_o that_o in_o this_o we_o condescend_v more_o unto_o your_o infirmity_n be_v willing_a to_o try_v all_o way_n to_o gain_v you_o than_o we_o need_v or_o you_o can_v of_o right_a challenge_n for_o we_o acknowledge_v that_o say_n of_o tertullian_n most_o true_a whereby_o he_o as_o it_o be_v stop_v this_o gap_n against_o you_o hunc_fw-la igitur_fw-la potissimum_fw-la gradum_fw-la obstruimus_fw-la non_fw-la admittendos_fw-la eos_fw-la ad_fw-la ullam_fw-la de_fw-la scripture_n disputationem_fw-la sihae_fw-la sunt_fw-la vires_fw-la eorum_fw-la arm_n eas_fw-la habere_fw-la possint_fw-la dispici_fw-la debet_fw-la cvi_fw-la competat_fw-la possessio_fw-la scripturarum_fw-la ne_fw-la be_v admittatur_fw-la ad_fw-la eas_fw-la cvi_fw-la nullo_n modo_fw-la competit_fw-la we_o stop_n up_o this_o entrance_n chief_o that_o they_o that_o be_v haeretique_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o disputation_n of_o scripture_n if_o in_o these_o their_o force_n consist_v we_o must_v see_v whether_o they_o may_v have_v they_o to_o who_o the_o possession_n belong_v lest_o he_o be_v admit_v thereunto_o to_o who_o it_o in_o no_o wise_n belong_v as_o also_o that_o other_o place_n wherein_o conformable_o to_o the_o question_n which_o here_o he_o make_v this_o be_v a_o important_a point_n he_o define_v 37._o de_fw-fr praesc_fw-la cap._n 15._o &_o 37._o non_fw-la esse_fw-la admittendos_fw-la haereticos_fw-la ad_fw-la incundam_fw-la de_fw-la scripture_n provocationem_fw-la quos_fw-la sine_fw-la scripture_n probamus_fw-la ad_fw-la scripturas_fw-la non_fw-la pertinere_fw-la that_o haeretique_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o challenge_n of_o scripture_n who_o without_o scripture_n we_o prove_v not_o to_o pertain_v to_o scripture_n that_o be_v not_o to_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v with_o they_o for_o say_v he_o if_o they_o be_v haeretique_n they_o can_v be_v christian_n and_o not_o be_v christian_n they_o can_v have_v no_o right_a to_o christian_a writing_n wherefore_o sir_n humphrey_n while_o you_o stand_v brag_v of_o scripture_n and_o chaleng_v we_o we_o may_v say_v unto_o you_o as_o the_o same_o tertullian_n say_v consequent_o in_o the_o same_o place_n qui_fw-la estis_fw-la quando_fw-la &_o unde_fw-la venistis_fw-la quid_fw-la in_o meo_fw-la agitis_fw-la non_fw-la mei_fw-la quo_fw-la denique_fw-la martion_n jure_fw-la siluam_fw-la meam_fw-la caedis_fw-la etc._n etc._n who_o be_v you_o when_o and_o whence_o have_v you_o come_v what_o do_v you_o in_o my_o ground_n you_o that_o be_v not_o i_o by_o what_o right_a o_o martion_n do_v thou_o fall_v my_o wood_n by_o what_o leave_n o_o valentine_n do_v thou_o turn_v my_o fountain_n by_o what_o authority_n o_o apelles_n do_v thou_o remove_v my_o bound_n it_o be_v my_o possession_n what_o do_v you_o other_o here_o sow_v and_o feed_v at_o your_o pleasure_n it_o be_v my_o possession_n i_o possess_v it_o of_o old_a i_o possess_v it_o first_o i_o have_v the_o original_n from_o the_o owner_n who_o the_o thing_n be_v i_o be_o the_o heir_n of_o the_o apostle_n as_o they_o have_v bequeath_v unto_o i_o by_o will_n as_o they_o have_v commit_v to_o my_o custody_n as_o they_o have_v adiur_v i_o so_o i_o hold_v for_o you_o true_o they_o have_v ever_o disinherited_a you_o and_o cast_v you_o of_o as_o stranger_n and_o enemy_n this_o be_v tertullian_n discourse_n and_o word_n wherein_o it_o be_v but_o change_v the_o name_n martion_n valentine_n and_o apelles_n into_o luther_n caluin_n beza_n or_o if_o you_o will_v into_o sir_n hum._n line_v and_o it_o will_v fit_a as_o well_o as_o if_o it_o be_v make_v for_o you_o or_o speak_v in_o answer_n of_o what_o you_o say_v here_o that_o if_o you_o bring_v scripture_n we_o decline_v it_o for_o hereby_o you_o may_v see_v how_o much_o you_o be_v mistake_v we_o do_v not_o decline_v it_o but_o we_o decline_v you_o from_o it_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v none_o of_o you_o you_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o it_o the_o scripture_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o church_n by_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v keep_v they_o be_v the_o church_n evidence_n therefore_o no_o man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n as_o you_o be_v have_v to_o do_v with_o they_o as_o tertullian_n tell_v you_o here_o 6._o ep_v dedic_fw-la n._n 6._o and_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o in_o my_o dedicatory_a epistle_n out_o of_o another_o place_n of_o he_o that_o we_o must_v first_o seek_v out_o where_o that_o faith_n be_v to_o which_o the_o scripture_n belong_v where_o the_o man_n to_o who_o christian_n discipline_n be_v deliver_v you_o must_v first_o show_v yourselves_o to_o be_v these_o man_n to_o have_v this_o faith_n before_o we_o can_v admit_v you_o to_o the_o scripture_n you_o must_v first_o show_v yourselves_o owner_n of_o the_o land_n before_o you_o can_v claim_v the_o writing_n and_o evidence_n which_o belong_v unto_o it_o and_o which_o make_v good_a the_o title_n therefore_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o can_v less_o admire_v your_o impudence_n in_o this_o which_o you_o say_v of_o scripture_n then_o in_o any_o thing_n else_o which_o in_o all_o this_o lindy_n treatise_n you_o have_v say_v though_o indeed_o as_o you_o go_v draw_v towards_o a_o end_n you_o show_v you_o self_n still_o more_o like_o yourself_o in_o this_o kind_n as_o shall_v appear_v by_o the_o follow_a section_n 15._o chap._n 15._o of_o the_o 15._o sect._n the_o title_n be_v this_o our_o chief_a adversary_n cardinal_n bellarmine_n testify_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n in_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o controversy_n betwixt_o us._n chapter_n xv._o 1._o in_o this_o section_n your_o drift_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o doctrine_n out_o of_o bellar._n who_o you_o say_v be_v enforce_v to_o confess_v the_o antiquity_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o doctrine_n and_o plain_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o
bellarmine_n we_o can_v be_v certain_a whether_o we_o fulfil_v or_o not_o and_o consequent_o we_o can_v be_v certain_a of_o our_o grace_n and_o justice_n and_o he_o say_v these_o place_n be_v so_o manifest_a that_o our_o adversary_n can_v deny_v something_o to_o be_v requisite_a on_o our_o part_n for_o though_o say_v he_o they_o deny_v the_o remission_n of_o sin_n to_o depend_v upon_o the_o condition_n of_o work_n or_o our_o penance_n faith_n or_o other_o act_n to_o be_v the_o cause_n or_o merit_n of_o justification_n yet_o they_o grant_v they_o to_o be_v requisite_a and_o that_o without_o they_o a_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v this_o be_v bellarmine_n discourse_n wherein_o he_o do_v neither_o confess_v any_o good_a of_o your_o haeretique_n nor_o any_o way_n allow_v or_o approve_v your_o say_n as_o you_o will_v make_v one_o think_v but_o bring_v your_o own_o confession_n against_o you_o and_o even_o by_o so_o much_o as_o you_o confess_v though_o that_o be_v far_o from_o enough_o overthrow_v another_o error_n of_o you_o to_o wit_n your_o vain_a confidence_n and_o certainty_n of_o your_o justification_n now_o then_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v not_o this_o honest_a deal_n in_o you_o to_o take_v a_o word_n speak_v by_o bellarmine_n for_o one_o purpose_n and_o to_o transfer_v it_o to_o another_o far_o different_a and_o again_o in_o favour_n of_o yourself_o to_o allege_v those_o word_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n as_o his_o confession_n which_o he_o allege_v only_o for_o you_o and_o to_o take_v it_o so_o as_o if_o his_o allegation_n be_v a_o approbation_n or_o allowance_n of_o they_o whereas_o he_o bring_v they_o but_o in_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o objection_n against_o yourselves_o and_o there_o withal_o plain_o declare_v the_o difference_n between_o your_o error_n and_o our_o faith_n that_o you_o will_v not_o have_v faith_n or_o work_v to_o be_v any_o cause_n or_o merit_n of_o justification_n nor_o justification_n to_o depend_v upon_o work_n as_o upon_o a_o condition_n whereas_o we_o teach_v all_o the_o contrary_a which_o though_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o stand_v to_o prove_v there_o because_o that_o be_v not_o a_o place_n for_o it_o yet_o he_o plain_o show_v that_o to_o be_v his_o belief_n 3._o the_o second_o place_n of_o bellarmine_n you_o say_v be_v touch_v justification_n by_o faith_n only_o wherein_o you_o tell_v we_o he_o conclude_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n say_v that_o either_o a_o man_n have_v true_a merit_n or_o he_o have_v not_o if_o he_o have_v not_o he_o be_v dangerous_o deceive_v if_o he_o have_v true_a merit_n he_o lose_v nothing_o by_o not_o respect_v they_o but_o put_v his_o trust_n in_o god_n only_o but_o in_o this_o again_o as_o before_o and_o every_o where_o else_o you_o still_o line_v it_o egregious_o for_o here_o you_o make_v as_o if_o bellarmine_n do_v allow_v of_o your_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o whereas_o he_o confute_v the_o same_o large_o and_o learned_o for_o 13._o 1._o lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr iustif_a cap._n 1._o whole_a chapter_n together_o begin_v his_o disputation_n thus_o hominem_fw-la non_fw-la sola_fw-la fide_fw-la iustificari_fw-la 5._o argumentis_fw-la principalibus_fw-la demonstrare_fw-la conabimur_fw-la we_o will_v endeavour_v by_o 5._o principal_a argument_n to_o demonstrate_v that_o a_o man_n be_v not_o justify_v by_o faith_n only_o how_o then_o do_v he_o conclude_v with_o your_o reform_a church_n he_o conclude_v against_o they_o &_o you_o tell_v we_o he_o conclude_v with_o they_o and_o this_o place_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o he_o be_v above_o 50._o leaf_n from_o that_o where_o he_o begin_v to_o treat_v of_o justification_n by_o faith_n and_o be_v a_o argument_n for_o a_o far_o different_a matter_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v most_o safe_a for_o a_o man_n though_o he_o may_v put_v some_o trust_n in_o his_o own_o good_a work_n yet_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o uncertainty_n he_o have_v of_o his_o own_o justice_n and_o danger_n of_o vain_a glory_n not_o to_o put_v any_o trust_n in_o they_o but_o all_o in_o god_n this_o late_a part_n whereof_o there_o be_v no_o controversy_n between_o we_o and_o protestant_n bellarmine_n prove_v by_o the_o reason_n here_o bring_v because_o if_o he_o have_v not_o true_a merit_n he_o deceive_v himself_o but_o if_o he_o have_v and_o yet_o trust_v not_o in_o they_o he_o lose_v nothing_o by_o not_o trust_v in_o they_o and_o what_o be_v all_o this_o good_a sir_n humphrey_n to_o your_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o and_o consequent_o all_o that_o you_o have_v say_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n in_o this_o section_n to_o the_o antiquity_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o doctrine_n or_o the_o contrary_a of_o we_o not_o one_o word_n to_o any_o such_o purpose_n on_o either_o side_n and_o therefore_o all_o be_v but_o vain_a brag_n wherewith_o you_o conclude_v hereupon_o that_o our_o best_a learned_a confess_v that_o many_o principal_a point_n of_o their_o own_o religion_n yea_o many_o article_n of_o faith_n be_v neither_o ancient_a safe_a nor_o catholic_a wherein_o you_o speak_v ignorant_o in_o distinguish_v principal_a point_n of_o religion_n from_o article_n of_o faith_n for_o though_o every_o proposition_n which_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la be_v not_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n yet_o every_o principal_a point_n be_v and_o therefore_o some_o give_v that_o for_o the_o reason_n why_o we_o call_v a_o point_n a_o article_n to_o wit_n because_o it_o be_v a_o principal_a point_n but_o this_o be_v but_o to_o show_v that_o you_o can_v speak_v two_o word_n sound_o without_o falter_v and_o yet_o you_o must_v be_v show_v man_n the_o way_n forsooth_o 4._o have_v then_o say_v all_o you_o can_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n you_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v not_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_n which_o we_o assume_v that_o make_v good_a the_o catholic_a doctrine_n neither_o the_o opinion_n of_o learning_n or_o multitude_n of_o our_o side_n that_o must_v outface_v the_o truth_n for_o say_v your_o our_o saviour_n do_v special_o note_v the_o member_n of_o his_o body_n by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o little_a flock_n as_o if_o the_o paucity_n of_o true_a believer_n be_v the_o special_a character_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o for_o our_o learned_a you_o bring_v a_o say_n of_o s._n paul_n to_o the_o corinthian_n 1.26_o 1._o cor._n 1.26_o not_o many_o wise_a according_a to_o the_o flesh_n not_o many_o mighty_a 25._o mat._n 11_o 25._o not_o many_o noble_a and_o another_o out_o of_o s._n matthew_n i_o thank_v thou_o father_n because_o thou_o have_v hide_v these_o thing_n from_o the_o wise_a and_o prudent_a and_o have_v reveal_v they_o to_o babe_n and_o then_o you_o will_v we_o to_o reflect_v upon_o our_o own_o church_n and_o we_o shall_v find_v the_o mark_n of_o a_o false_a church_n foretell_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v after_o the_o work_n of_o satan_n with_o all_o power_n and_o sign_n and_o lie_v wonder_n and_o after_o a_o little_a of_o this_o rave_a talk_n you_o conclude_v with_o s._n augustine_n that_o miracle_n be_v not_o now_o to_o be_v expect_v thus_o you_o troll_v it_o out_o sir_n humphrey_n where_o first_o to_o begin_v with_o i_o may_v ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o that_o which_o the_o title_n of_o your_o section_n promise_v to_o wit_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o your_o doctrine_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n but_o that_o it_o seem_v prove_v but_o dry_a matter_n you_o take_v yourself_o the_o freedom_n without_o regard_n to_o the_o consequence_n of_o your_o discourse_n to_o talk_v of_o the_o church_n of_o miracle_n strong_a delusion_n and_o other_o such_o stuff_n good_a for_o nothing_o but_o to_o fill_v paper_n but_o this_o very_a discourse_n for_o the_o matter_n itself_o show_v your_o wit_n for_o you_o can_v have_v say_v nothing_o more_o to_o the_o advantage_n of_o our_o cause_n nor_o more_o to_o the_o disadvantage_n of_o your_o own_o for_o you_o show_v we_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n your_o own_o a_o false_a one_o which_o to_o be_v so_o i_o shall_v show_v not_o in_o my_o own_o word_n but_o in_o s._n augustine_n who_o give_v account_n what_o it_o be_v that_o keep_v he_o in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o church_n reckon_v these_o very_a thing_n which_o you_o make_v so_o little_a account_n of_o as_o miracle_n multitude_n of_o people_n and_o the_o very_a name_n of_o catholic_a and_o i_o may_v say_v also_o learning_n 4._o aug._n count_v ep_v fundam_fw-la cap._n 4._o for_o answer_v that_o epistle_n of_o the_o manichee_n call_v epistola_fw-la fundamenti_fw-la he_o begin_v his_o discourse_n thus_o in_o catholica_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la ut_fw-la omittam_fw-la sincerissimam_fw-la sapientiam_fw-la etc._n etc._n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o most_o sincere_a wisdom_n wherein_o by_o mention_v this_o wisdom_n in_o such_o manner_n every_o man_n see_v that_o to_o he_o it_o be_v a_o motive_n though_o he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o urge_v
it_o against_o the_o haeretique_n which_o deny_v it_o and_o a_o little_a after_o again_o he_o go_v on_o thus_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o this_o wisdom_n which_o you_o do_v not_o believe_v to_o be_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n there_o be_v many_o thing_n else_o which_o may_v most_o just_o hold_v i_o in_o the_o bosom_n thereof_o there_o hold_v i_o the_o consent_n of_o people_n and_o nation_n there_o hold_v i_o authority_n begin_v by_o miracle_n nourish_v by_o hope_n increase_v by_o charity_n strengthen_v by_o antiquity_n there_o hold_v i_o the_o succession_n of_o priest_n from_o the_o very_a seat_n of_o peter_n to_o who_o our_o lord_n after_o his_o resurrection_n commit_v the_o feed_n of_o his_o flock_n to_o the_o present_a bishoprique_n last_o the_o very_a name_n of_o catholic_a hold_v i_o and_o after_o again_o these_o therefore_o so_o many_o and_o so_o great_a most_o dear_a chain_n of_o the_o christian_a name_n do_v right_o hold_v a_o man_n believe_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n though_o for_o the_o slowness_n of_o our_o understanding_n or_o merit_n of_o our_o life_n truth_n do_v not_o show_v itself_o so_o very_o clear_o but_o with_o you_o that_o be_v manichee_n and_o i_o may_v say_v protestant_n or_o any_o other_o sect_n whatsoever_o where_o there_o be_v nothing_o of_o all_o these_o to_o invite_v and_o hold_v i_o there_o sound_v only_o a_o promise_n of_o truth_n thus_o far_o saint_n augustine_n very_a word_n by_o which_o any_o man_n will_v perceive_v that_o he_o make_v so_o much_o account_n of_o the_o learning_n of_o the_o multitude_n of_o people_n and_o nation_n of_o miracle_n of_o antiquity_n of_o succession_n of_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_n in_o our_o church_n which_o you_o account_v nothing_o as_o by_o they_o to_o hold_v himself_o in_o the_o bosom_n of_o that_o church_n insinuate_v withal_o that_o the_o want_n of_o they_o in_o haereticall_a congregation_n be_v sufficient_a to_o deter_v any_o man_n from_o they_o how_o much_o soever_o they_o prate_v of_o truth_n safety_n certainty_n and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o 5._o in_o grant_v we_o therefore_o these_o thing_n and_o acknowledge_v the_o want_n of_o they_o in_o your_o self_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o saint_n augustine_n you_o confess_v we_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o your_o own_o a_o false_a and_o haereticall_a conventicle_n as_o likewise_o you_o do_v in_o that_o you_o make_v the_o smallness_n of_o number_n to_o be_v a_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n saint_n augustine_n show_v it_o to_o be_v none_o for_o whereas_o the_o donatist_n do_v brag_v thereof_o he_o confute_v they_o thus_o 7._o de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccl_n cap._n 7._o quid_fw-la est_fw-la haeretici_fw-la quod_fw-la de_fw-la paucitate_fw-la gloriamini_fw-la si_fw-la propterea_fw-la dominus_fw-la noster_fw-la jesus_n christus_n traditus_fw-la est_fw-la ad_fw-la mortem_fw-la ut_fw-la haereditate_fw-la multos_fw-la possideret_fw-la what_o be_v it_o o_o you_o haeretique_n that_o you_o brag_v of_o the_o smallness_n of_o your_o number_n if_o christ_n be_v therefore_o deliver_v up_o to_o death_n that_o he_o may_v by_o inhaeritance_n possess_v many_o and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o prove_v the_o same_o far_a out_o of_o diverse_a place_n of_o scripture_n and_o namely_o by_o 9_o or_o 10._o most_o plain_a place_n out_o of_o esay_n the_o prophet_n and_o then_o conclude_v again_o ubi_fw-la est_fw-la inquam_fw-la quod_fw-la de_fw-la paucitate_fw-la gloriamini_fw-la where_o i_o say_v be_v it_o that_o you_o brag_v of_o your_o fewne_n be_v not_o these_o the_o many_o of_o who_o it_o be_v say_v a_o little_a before_o that_o he_o shall_v possess_v many_o by_o heritage_n but_o of_o this_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o full_a and_o so_o clear_a as_o i_o may_v well_o deny_v he_o the_o name_n of_o a_o christian_n that_o deni_v it_o wherefore_o for_o that_o place_n of_o a_o little_a flock_n which_o you_o bring_v in_o show_n only_o to_o the_o contrary_a vinc._n aug._n ep_v 50._o ad_fw-la bonif._n &_o ep_v 48._o ad_fw-la vinc._n s._n aug._n explicate_v it_o not_o of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n but_o of_o the_o good_a who_o be_v small_a in_o number_n in_o comparison_n of_o the_o wicked_a or_o of_o christ_n flock_n or_o church_n at_o that_o time_n in_o the_o beginning_n 12._o lib._n 4._o cap._n 54_o in_o luc_n 12._o and_o s._n bede_n expound_v it_o two_o way_n one_o of_o the_o small_a number_n of_o the_o elect_a in_o comparison_n of_o the_o reprobate_n the_o other_o of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o humility_n wherein_o christ_n will_v have_v it_o to_o excel_v &_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n how_o much_o soever_o it_o be_v dilate_v in_o number_n quia_fw-la videlicet_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la svam_fw-la quantalibet_fw-la numerositate_fw-la iam_fw-la dilatatam_fw-la tamen_fw-la usque_fw-la ad_fw-la finem_fw-la mundi_fw-la humilitate_fw-la vult_fw-la crescere_fw-la for_o that_o place_n of_o s._n paul_n it_o patronize_v not_o your_o ignorance_n one_o iott_n for_o it_o be_v only_o mean_a of_o those_o who_o our_o saviour_n at_o first_o make_v choice_n of_o to_o preach_v his_o faith_n and_o make_v know_v his_o name_n unto_o the_o world_n who_o indeed_o be_v not_o many_o in_o number_n be_v but_o 12._o nor_o great_a in_o wisdom_n according_a to_o the_o flesh_n not_o have_v be_v bring_v up_o in_o learn_v but_o to_o mean_v trade_n as_o fish_v &_o the_o like_a nor_o mighty_a nor_o noble_a be_v but_o poor_a and_o obscure_a for_o wealth_n and_o parentage_n and_o this_o for_o a_o special_a reason_n as_o s._n ambrose_n declare_v in_o these_o word_n aduerte_n caeleste_fw-la consilium_fw-la non_fw-la sapientes_fw-la aliquos_fw-la non_fw-la divites_fw-la luc._n lib._n 5._o comment_n in_o luc._n non_fw-la nobiles_fw-la sed_fw-la piscatores_fw-la &_o publicanos_fw-la quos_fw-la dirigeret_fw-la elegit_fw-la ne_fw-la traduxisse_fw-la prudentia_fw-la ne_fw-la redemisse_fw-la divitijs_fw-la ne_fw-la potentiae_fw-la nobilitatisue_n authoritate_fw-la traxisse_fw-la aliquos_fw-la ad_fw-la svam_fw-la gratiam_fw-la videretur_fw-la ut_fw-la veritatis_fw-la ratio_fw-la non_fw-la disputationis_fw-la gratia_fw-la praevaleret_fw-la mark_v the_o heavenly_a wisdom_n he_o do_v not_o choose_v some_o wise_a or_o rich_a or_o noble_a but_o fisher_n and_o publican_n to_o send_v lest_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v bring_v any_o to_o his_o grace_n by_o wile_n redeem_v they_o by_o riches_n or_o draw_v they_o by_o authority_n of_o power_n or_o nobility_n that_o reason_n of_o truth_n and_o not_o the_o grace_n of_o disputation_n may_v prevail_v 6._o and_o so_o christ_n make_v choice_n of_o a_o few_o simple_a man_n to_o convert_v the_o world_n that_o thereby_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o the_o conversion_n thereof_o be_v not_o a_o work_n of_o any_o worldly_a or_o humane_a but_o of_o divine_a power_n and_o virtue_n but_o if_o they_o shall_v not_o convert_v the_o world_n that_o be_v great_a multitude_n and_o several_a nation_n kingdom_n and_o country_n wise_a powerful_a and_o learned_a man_n but_o only_o some_o such_o small_a handful_n as_o you_o will_v have_v your_o little_a flock_n to_o be_v some_o weak_a unlearned_a and_o poor_a people_n as_o you_o will_v have_v your_o church_n to_o consist_v of_o it_o have_v be_v no_o wonder_n at_o all_o for_o we_o see_v many_o sect-maister_n draw_v great_a multitude_n after_o they_o far_o great_a every_o way_n then_o your_o church_n of_o england_n this_o place_n therefore_o which_o you_o bring_v for_o defence_n of_o the_o smallness_n of_o your_o number_n and_o want_v of_o learning_n in_o your_o church_n show_v it_o not_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n which_o for_o number_n be_v to_o be_v numberless_a and_o for_o extent_n to_o be_v spread_v over_o the_o world_n 18._o psal_n 18._o in_o omnem_fw-la terram_fw-la exivit_fw-la sonus_fw-la eorum_fw-la say_v holy_a david_n their_o sound_n go_v all_o over_o the_o earth_n whereas_o you_o acknowledge_v the_o contrary_a a_o mark_n of_o your_o church_n the_o true_a church_n be_v to_o consist_v of_o many_o wise_a mighty_a and_o noble_a personage_n gather_v and_o draw_v to_o the_o true_a catholic_a faith_n by_o those_o few_o unlearned_a weak_a and_o ignoble_a people_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n after_o in_o the_o same_o place_n seem_v to_o insinuate_v say_v quae_fw-la stulia_fw-la sunt_fw-la mundi_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o foolish_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n have_v god_n choose_v that_o he_o may_v confound_v the_o wise_a and_o the_o weak_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n have_v god_n choose_v that_o he_o may_v confound_v the_o strong_a and_o the_o base_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o contemptible_a have_v god_n choose_v and_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o that_o he_o may_v destroy_v those_o thing_n which_o be_v so_o as_o you_o see_v these_o few_o weak_a and_o ignorant_a man_n be_v to_o subdue_v the_o learning_n might_n and_o wisdom_n of_o the_o world_n to_o christ_n and_o draw_v it_o to_o his_o church_n and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o david_n say_v that_o he_o
all_o the_o world_n believe_v beside_o himself_o out_o of_o which_o you_o will_v have_v your_o reader_n gather_v that_o in_o that_o father_n judgement_n miracle_n have_v cease_v and_o that_o whatsoever_o catholic_n speak_v now_o of_o miracle_n it_o but_o feign_a be_v not_o this_o your_o meaning_n sir_n humphrey_n sure_o it_o be_v for_o what_o else_o it_o shall_v be_v i_o can_v imagine_v now_o to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o saint_n augustine_n meaning_n as_o shall_v appear_v for_o he_o in_o this_o place_n reason_v with_o the_o pagan_a who_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o miracle_n wrought_v by_o the_o first_o preacher_n of_o our_o faith_n because_o he_o see_v not_o the_o like_a in_o his_o time_n to_o which_o saint_n augustine_n answer_v that_o they_o be_v not_o so_o needful_a then_o as_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o yet_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v such_o wrought_v then_o for_o how_o else_o say_v he_o come_v the_o world_n to_o believe_v and_o now_o the_o world_n believe_v there_o need_v no_o miracle_n to_o make_v a_o man_n believe_v the_o conversion_n of_o the_o world_n be_v argument_n enough_o and_o that_o therefore_o he_o be_v to_o be_v wonder_v at_o that_o will_v stand_v upon_o miracle_n for_o his_o belief_n and_o this_o be_v for_o us._n for_o so_o say_v we_o a_o man_n that_o shall_v stand_v upon_o miracle_n to_o become_v a_o catholic_a the_o whole_a world_n of_o this_o age_n and_o for_o so_o many_o forego_v age_n believe_v and_o profess_v that_o faith_n be_v to_o be_v wonder_v at_o himself_o and_o we_o say_v again_o that_o he_o be_v as_o much_o to_o be_v wonder_v at_o that_o shall_v believe_v a_o new_a haereticall_a religion_n not_o know_v before_o to_o the_o world_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a belief_n thereof_o such_o as_o luther_n or_o caluin_n be_v without_o miracle_n for_o all_o true_a religion_n must_v have_v some_o testimony_n of_o miracle_n from_o god_n in_o the_o beginning_n till_o man_n believe_v but_o man_n believe_v they_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a so_o as_o thus_o much_o as_o you_o have_v set_v down_o of_o saint_n augustine_n his_o discourse_n be_v not_o against_o we_o but_o rather_o against_o yourself_o but_o now_o see_v you_o will_v needs_o speak_v against_o miracle_n and_o that_o out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n let_v we_o see_v what_o else_o there_o be_v in_o this_o place_n against_o or_o for_o miracle_n and_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a title_n of_o that_o chapter_n out_o of_o the_o very_a beginning_n whereof_o you_o take_v your_o place_n it_o be_v this_o 8._o aug._n the_o civet_n lib._n 22._o cap._n 8._o de_fw-fr miraculis_fw-la quae_fw-la ut_fw-la mundus_fw-la in_o christum_fw-la crederet_fw-la facta_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o fieri_fw-la mundo_fw-la credente_fw-la non_fw-la desinunt_fw-la of_o the_o miracle_n which_o be_v wrought_v that_o the_o world_n may_v believe_v in_o christ_n and_o do_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v wrought_v now_o that_o the_o world_n do_v believe_v look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v not_o here_o comfort_n for_o you_o to_o begin_v withal_o miracle_n wrought_v not_o only_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o afterward_o in_o s._n aug._n his_o time_n well_o in_o the_o chapter_n itself_o whereas_o he_o say_v that_o he_o that_o will_v not_o believe_v without_o miracle_n will_v be_v a_o wonder_n himself_o he_o expound_v his_o meaning_n not_o to_o be_v so_o as_o if_o miracle_n be_v cease_v as_o our_o haeretique_n and_o you_o for_o one_o sir_n humphrey_n say_v no_o say_v he_o etiam_fw-la nunc_fw-la fiunt_fw-la miracula_fw-la in_o eius_fw-la nomine_fw-la etc._n etc._n for_o even_o now_o miracle_n be_v wrought_v in_o his_o name_n either_o by_o the_o sacrament_n or_o by_o prayer_n or_o memory_n of_o martyr_n and_o then_o he_o spend_v that_o whole_a and_o long_a chapter_n in_o recount_v of_o such_o miracle_n as_o happen_v then_o in_o his_o time_n and_o even_o in_o his_o own_o sight_n or_o hard_a by_o and_o so_o also_o in_o another_o place_n whereas_o he_o have_v make_v himself_o a_o objection_n why_o such_o miracle_n as_o our_o saviour_n wrought_v be_v not_o then_o wrought_v and_o answer_v because_o they_o will_v not_o move_v unless_o they_o be_v strange_a 14._o retract_v lib._n 1._o cap._n 14._o nor_o will_v be_v strange_a if_o they_o be_v ordinary_a he_o expound_v himself_o thus_o haec_fw-la dixi_fw-la quia_fw-la non_fw-la tanta_fw-la nec_fw-la omne_fw-la modo_fw-la non_fw-la quia_fw-la nulla_fw-la fiunt_fw-la etiam_fw-la modo_fw-la this_o i_o say_v because_o not_o so_o great_a nor_o all_o now_o not_o because_o none_o be_v wrought_v even_o now_o by_o which_o it_o be_v most_o clear_a that_o you_o have_v not_o s._n aug._n with_o you_o against_o miracle_n but_o as_o plain_a as_o may_v be_v against_o you_o so_o as_o i_o do_v not_o see_v what_o you_o can_v say_v for_o yourself_o but_o by_o lay_v the_o blame_n upon_o the_o spirit_n i_o speak_v of_o before_o who_o ought_v you_o a_o shame_n and_o therefore_o put_v you_o upon_o write_v such_o matter_n as_o can_v be_v otherwise_o maintain_v then_o by_o such_o mean_n as_o you_o be_v here_o fain_o to_o use_v of_o the_o 16._o sect._n entitle_v our_o adversary_n objection_n draw_v from_o the_o testimony_n of_o pretend_a martyr_n of_o their_o religion_n answer_v chapter_n xvi_o 1._o the_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n in_o his_o ten_o reason_n bring_v all_o sort_n of_o witness_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n begin_v with_o martyr_n those_o particular_o who_o be_v pastor_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n suffer_v martyrdom_n successive_o one_o after_o the_o other_o to_o the_o number_n of_o 33._o these_o say_v campian_n be_v we_o and_o name_v some_o of_o they_o as_o telesphorus_n victor_n sixtus_n cornelius_n with_o the_o particular_a point_n which_o they_o hold_v conformable_o with_o we_o against_o protestant_n 16._o chap._n 16._o as_o the_o fast_o of_o lent_n the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n power_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o like_o this_o our_o knight_n take_v hold_v of_o confess_v martyrdom_n to_o carry_v some_o show_n of_o honour_n in_o our_o church_n but_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v we_o because_o they_o neither_o suffer_v for_o our_o faith_n nor_o profess_v it_o while_o they_o live_v which_o he_o prove_v by_o ask_v whether_o ever_o any_o martyr_n die_v upon_o confidence_n of_o his_o own_o merit_n and_o whether_o any_o romanist_n dare_v die_v in_o justification_n of_o his_o own_o righteousness_n and_o whether_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o die_v and_o be_v canonize_v for_o adoration_n give_v to_o image_n and_o many_o more_o such_o wise_a demand_n to_o who_o i_o answer_v that_o those_o martyr_n suffer_v death_n not_o for_o the_o point_n now_o in_o controversy_n with_o haeretique_n but_o for_o the_o profession_n of_o christianity_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o enemy_n of_o christ_n but_o that_o not_o only_o such_o as_o die_v for_o christ_n himself_o by_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o pagan_n be_v martyr_n but_o such_o as_o die_v for_o his_o church_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o haeretique_n or_o for_o any_o one_o particular_a point_n even_o the_o lest_o of_o they_o that_o be_v define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o which_o every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v rather_o to_o die_v then_o deny_v any_o of_o they_o now_o that_o these_o martyr_n be_v we_o notwithstanding_o they_o die_v not_o for_o any_o of_o these_o point_n it_o be_v plain_a because_o they_o profess_v the_o same_o catholic_a faith_n which_o we_o do_v which_o we_o also_o prove_v by_o the_o faith_n of_o their_o successor_n vrbanus_n 8._o who_o as_o he_o hold_v their_o seat_n so_o also_o their_o faith_n council_n 〈◊〉_d 1._o council_n for_o peter_n chair_n and_o faith_n go_v together_o as_o the_o very_a haeretique_n pelagius_n confess_v to_o lozimus_n pope_n say_v to_o he_o qui_fw-fr petri_n fidem_fw-la &_o sedem_fw-la tenes_fw-fr not_o to_o stand_v here_o upon_o the_o most_o effectual_a and_o infallible_a prayer_n of_o our_o saviour_n himself_n oravi_fw-la pro_fw-la te_fw-la petre_n ut_fw-la non_fw-la deficiat_fw-la fides_fw-la tua_fw-la which_o proof_n must_v stand_v firm_a till_o sir_n humphrey_n can_v tell_v we_o what_o pope_n begin_v to_o vary_v from_o his_o praedecessor_n 2._o now_o for_o the_o particular_a point_n it_o be_v plain_a even_o by_o those_o which_o f._n campian_n cit_v that_o they_o be_v we_o but_o much_o more_o by_o their_o own_o decretal_a epistle_n which_o be_v all_o so_o full_a of_o those_o thing_n that_o the_o haeretique_n have_v no_o other_o shift_n but_o to_o deny_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o same_o epistle_n therefore_o they_o be_v idle_a demand_n which_o the_o knight_n make_v whether_o any_o have_v die_v upon_o confidence_n of_o his_o own_o merit_n or_o whether_o any_o catholic_a dare_v die_v for_o justification_n of_o his_o righteousness_n for_o these_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o of_o presumption_n but_o for_o
the_o doctrine_n of_o justification_n and_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n as_o they_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v to_o give_v his_o life_n as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n whereas_o he_o ask_v whether_o any_o of_o these_o 33._o be_v canonize_v for_o it_o it_o be_v a_o idle_a question_n for_o man_n be_v canonize_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o belief_n only_o but_o for_o practice_v of_o faith_n hope_n charity_n and_o all_o virtue_n together_o which_o belong_v to_o a_o holy_a and_o christian_a life_n in_o general_a and_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a state_n and_o vocation_n and_o though_o there_o be_v no_o special_a mention_n of_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o their_o adoration_n of_o image_n yet_o define_v which_o before_o be_v not_o and_o which_o then_o man_n be_v not_o so_o certain_a of_o nor_o so_o bind_v to_o believe_v as_o after_o so_o consequent_o man_n may_v be_v less_o bind_v to_o suffer_v death_n for_o it_o then_o then_o afterward_o and_o yet_o be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n with_o those_o that_o come_v after_o so_o long_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o church_n and_o live_v in_o the_o unity_n thereof_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o power_n and_o authority_n to_o determine_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a those_o ancient_a martyr_n do_v as_o appear_v both_o by_o their_o own_o writing_n yet_o extant_a and_o their_o deed_n record_v by_o other_o man_n in_o good_a authentical_a history_n these_o holy_a martyr_n therefore_o be_v true_o we_o which_o if_o this_o knight_n will_v disprove_v he_o must_v show_v which_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v otherwise_o that_o be_v against_o that_o uhich_v we_o now_o believe_v which_o till_o he_o can_v do_v we_o shall_v still_o be_v in_o possession_n of_o our_o martyr_n and_o of_o their_o faith_n our_o faith_n testify_v that_o we_o be_v their_o child_n and_o their_o blood_n give_v testimony_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o faith_n of_o the_o 17._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 17._o chap._n 17._o our_o adversary_n common_a objection_n draw_v from_o the_o charitable_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n touch_v the_o salvation_n of_o profess_a romanist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o church_n answer_v chapter_n xvii_o 1._o this_o section_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o natural_a language_n and_o therefore_o will_v soon_o be_v answer_v he_o begin_v with_o a_o say_n of_o costerus_n that_o a_o man_n die_v a_o lutheran_n can_v be_v save_v whereupon_o he_o fall_v in_o to_o a_o great_a rage_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v a_o woman_n a_o church_n a_o city_n which_o reign_v over_o the_o king_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o have_v multitude_n of_o nation_n at_o her_o command_n but_o he_o thank_v god_n his_o church_n be_v not_o such_o a_o one_o neither_o do_v protestans_fw-la as_o he_o say_v account_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o their_o church_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o fall_v to_o reckon_v up_o diverse_a particular_a point_n of_o his_o church_n doctrine_n as_o disclaim_v of_o merit_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n read_v of_o scripture_n and_o bring_v a_o place_n of_o scripture_n for_o each_o of_o these_o he_o ask_v very_o rhetorical_o after_o every_o one_o whether_o they_o be_v accurse_v for_o hold_v they_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n ask_v whether_o we_o can_v be_v bless_v that_o forbid_v marriage_n &_o meat_n that_o have_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n adore_v image_n adore_v saint_n adore_v the_o element_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n we_o that_o add_v tradition_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o detract_v from_o god_n commandment_n and_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o discourse_n of_o his_o be_v so_o foolish_a as_o it_o be_v a_o man_n may_v think_v it_o folly_n for_o i_o to_o stand_v answer_v particular_o therefore_o i_o answer_v brief_o and_o in_o general_a first_o that_o though_o it_o take_v up_o half_a his_o section_n yet_o it_o be_v whole_o from_o his_o purpose_n which_o he_o pretend_v by_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o objection_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o he_o object_v unto_o we_o they_o be_v all_o answer_v before_o and_o prove_v some_o false_a for_o the_o thing_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v we_o all_o absurd_a if_o we_o consider_v the_o proof_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v for_o example_n he_o tell_v we_o we_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n both_o which_o be_v most_o gross_o false_a for_o how_o many_o catholic_n be_v there_o in_o england_n man_n and_o woman_n marry_v and_o what_o meat_n be_v there_o that_o catholic_n be_v forbid_v to_o eat_v in_o due_a time_n and_o season_n be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n to_o some_o man_n to_o wit_n such_o as_o have_v voluntary_o promise_v the_o contrary_a and_o some_o meat_n at_o some_o time_n all_o one_o i_o say_v as_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n neither_o marriage_n nor_o meat_n be_v forbid_v in_o these_o case_n as_o ill_o in_o themselves_o in_o which_o sense_n only_o saint_n paul_n term_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n but_o for_o high_a end_n but_o to_o make_v he_o yet_o a_o little_a more_o capable_a of_o this_o answer_n i_o will_v urge_v he_o with_o one_o ordinary_a instance_n which_o be_v this_o i_o presume_v his_o father_n have_v some_o apprentice_n bind_v not_o to_o marry_v during_o his_o apprenticeship_n i_o will_v then_o know_v of_o he_o whither_o his_o father_n in_o that_o case_n do_v forbid_v marriage_n and_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n 2._o against_o prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n he_o say_v it_o be_v write_v with_o man_n of_o other_o tongue_n and_o other_o lip_n will_v i_o speak_v unto_o this_o people_n and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o hear_v i_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n say_v it_o be_v a_o curse_n at_o the_o build_n of_o babel_n for_o they_o that_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v speak_v but_o by_o this_o allege_v of_o scripture_n a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o a_o good_a thing_n it_o be_v to_o have_v it_o in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n for_o every_o man_n to_o read_v and_o abuse_v it_o at_o his_o pleasure_n when_o such_o a_o right_n learned_a man_n as_o this_o knight_n do_v so_o strange_o apply_v it_o he_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v esay_n the_o prophet_n speak_v against_o latin_a in_o this_o place_n but_o the_o man_n be_v quite_o wide_a of_o his_o mark_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o he_o that_o there_o be_v mention_n of_o a_o strange_a tongue_n there_o for_o as_o for_o the_o sense_n he_o care_v not_o or_o rather_o his_o read_n reach_v not_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o place_n which_o be_v but_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o people_n laugh_v at_o the_o prophet_n that_o come_v to_o they_o with_o command_n from_o god_n repeat_v their_o word_n scoff_o manda_fw-la remanda_fw-fr 28.11_o isa_n 28.11_o expecta_fw-la reexpecta_fw-la etc._n etc._n god_n send_v they_o word_n by_o the_o prophet_n that_o because_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v those_o word_n nor_o follow_v the_o good_a counsel_n which_o he_o give_v he_o will_v speak_v another_o word_n unto_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v fall_v &_o be_v catch_v crush_v and_o carry_v into_o captivity_n and_o there_o hear_v a_o language_n which_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v this_o be_v the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o prophet_n s._n paul_n indeed_o use_v it_o in_o another_o sense_n to_o persuade_v the_o corinthian_n that_o prophecy_n be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o tongue_n because_o as_o he_o say_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n be_v a_o sign_n for_o infidel_n that_o be_v to_o speak_v to_o infidel_n for_o their_o conversion_n but_o prophecy_n that_o be_v exhortation_n or_o interpretation_n be_v for_o the_o faithful_a or_o those_o that_o believe_v already_o wherein_o i_o will_v know_v according_a to_o either_o explication_n what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v against_o prayer_n in_o the_o latin_a tongue_n and_o for_o the_o tower_n of_o babel_n the_o knight_n sure_o speak_v by_o contrary_n for_o whereas_o at_o babel_n man_n fall_v from_o unity_n of_o language_n to_o speak_v every_o man_n a_o several_a language_n so_o as_o no_o one_o man_n understand_v one_o another_o &_o by_o that_o mean_v they_o be_v all_o disperse_v into_o several_a nation_n the_o catholic_a church_n do_v quite_o contrary_a draw_v several_a nation_n to_o unity_n of_o language_n make_v all_o to_o speak_v one_o and_o the_o sâ—me_a tongue_n whereas_o haeretique_n in_o several_a place_n by_o use_n of_o other_o language_n understand_v not_o one_o the_o other_o and_o therein_o most_o perfect_o resemble_v the_o babel-builder_n as_o well_o in_o the_o very_a diversity_n of_o tongue_n as_o in_o the_o diversity_n of_o
doctrine_n 3._o for_o tradition_n adoration_n of_o image_n saint_n etc._n etc._n all_o be_v answer_v before_o so_o likewise_o his_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n but_o for_o that_o which_o he_o say_v that_o he_o acknowledge_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n not_o to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o it_o for_o what_o be_v this_o but_o even_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o confess_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n 2._o isa_n 2._o isay_n the_o prophet_n describe_v the_o church_n under_o the_o type_n of_o a_o mountain_n say_v that_o all_o nation_n shall_v flow_v unto_o it_o 71._o psal_n 71._o 2._o psal_n 2._o the_o prophet_n david_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n say_v that_o he_o shall_v bear_v sway_n from_o sea_n to_o sea_n â—_o dan._n 2.3_o â—_o that_o god_n will_v give_v he_o nation_n for_o his_o inhaeritance_n and_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o earth_n for_o his_o possession_n 9â—_n apoc._n 7_o 9â—_n daniel_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n like_o a_o mountain_n grow_v from_o a_o little_a stone_n and_o fill_v the_o whole_a earth_n s._n john_n see_v a_o multitude_n which_o no_o man_n can_v reckon_v of_o all_o nation_n and_o tribe_n and_o people_n and_o tongue_n this_o be_v also_o the_o thing_n wherein_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v special_o distinguish_v from_o the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n that_o that_o pertain_v but_o to_o one_o nation_n this_o to_o all_o the_o nation_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o all_o the_o father_n proclaim_v nothing_o more_o particular_o s._n augustine_n in_o a_o whole_a book_n of_o this_o argument_n against_o the_o donatist_n and_o a_o knight_n to_o come_v and_o tell_v we_o he_o do_v not_o account_v this_o as_o a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n what_o be_v this_o but_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o acknowledge_v that_o his_o church_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n beside_o i_o will_v know_v what_o he_o have_v mean_v all_o this_o while_n by_o universality_n which_o he_o have_v labour_v to_o prove_v to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n the_o principal_n thing_n understand_v by_o universality_n when_o we_o take_v it_o for_o a_o note_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o universality_n of_o place_n to_o wit_n 16.15_o mar._n 16.15_o diverse_a kingdom_n and_o country_n as_o it_o be_v use_v by_o our_o saviour_n himself_o euntes_fw-la in_o mundum_fw-la universum_fw-la praedicate_fw-la evangelium_fw-la omni_fw-la creaturae_fw-la and_o now_o in_o deny_v this_o mark_n to_o belong_v to_o his_o church_n do_v he_o not_o deny_v it_o to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n for_o how_o can_v that_o doctrine_n be_v universal_a that_o be_v teach_v by_o a_o few_o and_o in_o a_o corner_n of_o the_o world_n and_o in_o acknowledge_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v universal_a do_v he_o not_o acknowledge_v it_o not_o to_o be_v catholic_a for_o be_v not_o catholic_n and_o universal_a all_o one_o as_o all_o man_n know_v in_o this_o word_n then_o he_o have_v grant_v enough_o to_o overthrow_v all_o that_o ever_o he_o have_v say_v or_o can_v say_v of_o his_o church_n 4._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n which_o he_o purpose_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o argument_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v the_o way_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n than_o the_o protestant_n because_o even_a protestant_n agree_v with_o catholic_n in_o this_o that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n and_o catholic_n deny_v that_o protestant_n can_v be_v save_v this_o argument_n the_o knight_n deni_v be_v sorry_a for_o his_o part_n that_o a_o charitable_a opinion_n on_o the_o protestant_n part_n shall_v give_v any_o romanist_n occasion_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o that_o church_n therefore_o he_o interprete_v that_o say_n to_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o such_o as_o by_o invincible_a ignorance_n resign_v their_o eyesight_n to_o their_o priest_n &_o pastor_n which_o man_n if_o they_o hold_v the_o article_n of_o christian_a belief_n without_o opposition_n to_o any_o ground_n of_o religion_n and_o live_v for_o outward_a thing_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n such_o man_n he_o say_v live_v papist_n and_o die_a protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o faith_n may_v find_v mercy_n because_o they_o do_v it_o ignorant_o but_o such_o papist_n he_o say_v as_o live_v in_o state_n and_o kingdom_n where_o they_o may_v come_v to_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o these_o man_n die_v in_o their_o sin_n though_o yet_o again_o he_o a_o little_a temper_n the_o rigour_n of_o this_o doom_n in_o say_v he_o will_v not_o judge_v their_o person_n though_o he_o pronounce_v their_o doctrine_n so_o damnable_a as_o that_o if_o he_o have_v 10000_o soul_n he_o will_v not_o venture_v one_o of_o they_o in_o the_o roman_a faith_n and_o church_n for_o which_o he_o take_v god_n and_o his_o holy_a angel_n to_o witness_v and_o then_o conclude_v very_o pathetical_o thus_o farr_n be_v it_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a man_n to_o think_v the_o point_n in_o controversy_n betwixt_o they_o and_o we_o to_o be_v of_o a_o inferior_a alloy_n as_o that_o a_o man_n may_v resolve_v this_o way_n or_o that_o without_o peril_n of_o his_o salvation_n and_o then_o tell_v we_o the_o fresh_a bleed_a wound_n and_o suffering_n of_o holy_a man_n and_o martyr_n in_o his_o church_n do_v sufficient_o witness_v the_o great_a danger_n in_o our_o religion_n and_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o that_o we_o may_v know_v that_o the_o best_a learned_a of_o his_o church_n be_v far_o from_o grant_v salvation_n to_o any_o papist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o now_o roman_a faith_n he_o bring_v a_o say_n of_o whitaker_n who_o will_v have_v we_o take_v it_o upon_o his_o word_n that_o in_o heaven_n there_o be_v not_o one_o jesuit_n nor_o one_o papist_n to_o be_v find_v this_o be_v the_o knight_n whole_a discourse_n in_o the_o second_o part_n of_o his_o section_n 5._o whereby_o upon_o examination_n it_o will_v appear_v he_o be_v as_o well_o red_a in_o his_o own_o author_n as_o in_o our_o schoolman_n and_o father_n and_o to_o begin_v with_o he_o he_o be_v sorry_a the_o protestant_n charitable_a opinion_n shall_v give_v any_o man_n encouradgment_n to_o die_v a_o papist_n but_o by_o his_o leave_n this_o opinion_n do_v not_o proceed_v from_o charity_n but_o from_o evidence_n of_o truth_n as_o all_o testimony_n from_o a_o enemy_n do_v but_o whether_o it_o be_v charity_n or_o not_o this_o knight_n will_v none_o of_o this_o charity_n and_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o some_o ignorant_a people_n who_o ignorance_n may_v excuse_v they_o but_o yet_o even_o these_o man_n though_o they_o live_v papist_n they_o must_v die_v protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o that_o faith_n this_o be_v good_a stuff_n papist_n may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n but_o yet_o they_o must_v die_v protestant_n very_o right_a sir_n humphrey_n where_o have_v you_o learn_v this_o theology_n that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v in_o one_o religion_n yet_o so_o as_o he_o must_v die_v in_o another_o this_o be_v a_o new_a conceit_n never_o hear_v of_o before_o that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v in_o a_o religion_n but_o so_o as_o not_o to_o die_v of_o it_o and_o here_o a_o man_n may_v ask_v at_o great_a many_o pretty_a question_n as_o what_o foundation_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v that_o they_o must_v die_v in_o what_o article_n of_o apostolic_a and_o christian_a belief_n what_o ground_n these_o be_v that_o may_v not_o be_v oppose_v all_o these_o have_v be_v necessary_a thing_n to_o be_v express_v in_o such_o a_o singular_a treatise_n as_o this_o of_o you_o which_o must_v forsooth_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o a_o safe_a way_n lead_v man_n to_o true_a faith_n and_o why_o also_o a_o man_n that_o hold_v the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o other_o thing_n common_a to_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n not_o forsake_v the_o catholic_a church_n and_o indeed_o not_o know_v any_o thing_n else_o for_o here_o you_o speak_v of_o a_o catholic_a in_o a_o catholic_a country_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v suppose_v the_o name_n of_o a_o protestant_n or_o other_o heretic_n be_v unknown_a why_o i_o say_v such_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v say_v to_o die_v a_o protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o his_o faith_n i_o see_v not_o for_o why_o do_v the_o apostle_n creed_n belong_v more_o to_o you_o then_o to_o we_o have_v we_o it_o from_o you_o or_o you_o from_o we_o nay_o if_o i_o will_v stand_v upon_o it_o i_o can_v show_v you_o not_o to_o believe_v a_o right_n in_o any_o one_o article_n thereof_o whereof_o he_o that_o list_v to_o know_v more_o
may_v look_v in_o poss_n bibl_n select_v lib._n 8._o cap._n 32._o nor_o do_v i_o see_v what_o that_o mean_v that_o you_o say_v of_o man_n that_o live_v for_o outward_a thing_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n where_o they_o dwell_v for_o if_o it_o be_v so_o that_o they_o may_v make_v show_n of_o one_o thing_n outward_o and_o mean_v a_o other_o inward_o as_o i_o see_v not_o what_o you_o can_v mean_v else_o than_o i_o say_v it_o be_v the_o most_o damnable_a &_o dangerous_a dissimulation_n of_o all_o other_o &_o the_o most_o sure_a way_n not_o to_o be_v save_v in_o any_o religion_n for_o neither_o the_o outward_a profession_n of_o a_o religion_n without_o the_o inward_a belief_n nor_o inward_a belief_n with_o a_o outward_a contrary_a profession_n can_v save_v a_o man_n what_o then_o be_v it_o you_o will_v say_v a_o man_n may_v see_v you_o be_v in_o strait_n fain_o you_o will_v not_o go_v absolute_o against_o that_o which_o many_o protestant_n say_v that_o a_o catholic_a may_v be_v save_v in_o his_o religion_n yet_o that_o will_v not_o stand_v neither_o with_o your_o own_o judgement_n as_o it_o seem_v nor_o bitter_a speech_n which_o you_o have_v speak_v of_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o call_v it_o babylon_n the_o seat_n of_o anti-christ_n and_o such_o like_a nor_o drift_n of_o your_o book_n which_o be_v whole_o to_o draw_v man_n away_o from_o the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o therefore_o you_o will_v fain_o find_v some_o ignorant_a people_n who_o shall_v be_v catholic_n and_o no_o catholic_n live_v catholic_n and_o die_v protestant_n in_o outward_a show_n catholic_n in_o inward_a belief_n protestant_n which_o be_v two_o great_a and_o gross_a absurdity_n and_o withal_o do_v not_o serve_v the_o turn_n for_o in_o neither_o of_o these_o two_o case_n be_v that_o proposition_n verify_v that_o a_o man_n die_v a_o papist_n may_v be_v save_v for_o he_o do_v not_o die_v a_o papist_n neither_o can_v that_o ignorance_n which_o you_o speak_v of_o allege_v the_o place_n of_o saint_n paul_n save_o man_n no_o more_o than_o it_o can_v do_v he_o who_o doubtless_o shall_v never_o have_v find_v such_o mercy_n as_o to_o be_v save_v have_v he_o not_o first_o find_v the_o mercy_n to_o be_v draw_v out_o of_o that_o his_o ignorance_n wherein_o he_o be_v this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o it_o be_v absolute_o impossible_a to_o find_v one_o so_o invincible_o ignorant_a as_o may_v not_o be_v save_v without_o a_o distinct_a and_o particular_a profession_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o abrenunciation_n of_o the_o protestant_n but_o i_o say_v it_o be_v a_o metaphysical_a and_o moral_o impossible_a case_n for_o how_o shall_v a_o man_n receive_v pardon_n of_o his_o sin_n be_v enable_v to_o walk_v the_o way_n of_o god_n commandment_n while_o he_o live_v or_o be_v arm_v against_o the_o combat_n of_o the_o devil_n at_o his_o death_n without_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v a_o sufficient_a profession_n of_o faith_n whole_o distinguish_v he_o from_o the_o protestant_n or_o any_o other_o sect_n therefore_o the_o knight_n chief_a answer_n to_o the_o argument_n be_v a_o plain_a denial_n that_o a_o papist_n can_v be_v save_v especial_o in_o england_n or_o in_o any_o protestant_a state_n where_o there_o be_v a_o course_n take_v to_o bring_v he_o to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o contrary_a though_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o pronounce_v damnation_n on_o our_o person_n as_o he_o say_v we_o do_v on_o he_o but_o wherein_o do_v we_o pronounce_v damnation_n upon_o their_o person_n more_o than_o he_o on_o we_o he_o and_o other_o of_o his_o opinion_n say_v our_o doctrine_n be_v damnable_a and_o consequent_o that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v by_o it_o we_o say_v the_o same_o of_o his_o doctrine_n and_o that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v by_o it_o for_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a man_n we_o do_v not_o take_v upon_o we_o to_o give_v any_o absolute_a judgement_n but_o that_o we_o leave_v to_o god_n 6._o but_o now_o for_o that_o which_o he_o say_v of_o we_o that_o we_o can_v be_v save_v and_o that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a man_n to_o think_v the_o point_n of_o controversy_n between_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n to_o be_v of_o a_o inferior_a alloy_n so_o as_o a_o man_n may_v hold_v either_o way_n without_o peril_n of_o salvation_n i_o will_v appeal_v only_o to_o his_o own_o man_n and_o to_o such_o as_o i_o presume_v he_o will_v not_o deny_v to_o be_v good_a man_n at_o lest_o chief_a man_n of_o his_o own_o church_n for_o the_o point_n therefore_o in_o controversy_n as_o frewill_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a honour_v of_o relic_n real_a presence_n transubstantiation_n communion_n in_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n worship_v of_o image_n the_o pope_n primacy_n his_o be_v vicar_n of_o christ_n and_o head_n of_o the_o church_n auricular_a confession_n and_o the_o like_a they_o be_v all_o acknowledge_v some_o by_o one_o some_o by_o another_o not_o to_o be_v material_a point_n so_o as_o a_o man_n may_v 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and_o die_v in_o our_o present_a roman_a faith_n may_v be_v save_v or_o not_o wherein_o though_o the_o knight_n be_v very_o persuade_v we_o can_v allege_v whitaker_n authority_n for_o the_o same_o and_o say_v that_o the_o best_a learned_a of_o his_o church_n have_v be_v far_o from_o grant_v salvation_n to_o any_o papist_n be_v withal_o so_o zealous_a and_o earnest_a in_o this_o belief_n as_o he_o wish_v it_o far_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a man_n to_o think_v so_o yet_o by_o his_o worship_n leave_n it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o many_o great_a man_n of_o his_o church_n nothing_o inferior_n in_o that_o which_o he_o take_v for_o learning_n and_o goodness_n to_o mr._n whitaker_n or_o any_o man_n else_o of_o his_o opinion_n for_o example_n mr._n d._n barrow_n say_v he_o dare_v not_o deny_v the_o name_n of_o christian_n to_o the_o romanist_n since_o the_o learnede_a writer_n do_v acknowledge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n if_o the_o church_n of_o 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to_o the_o same_o purpose_n as_o d._n field_n and_o dr._n morton_n say_v that_o we_o be_v to_o be_v account_v the_o church_n of_o god_n who_o word_n may_v be_v see_v in_o the_o protestant_n apology_n 3._o tract_n 1._o sect._n 6._o sub._n 1._o 2._o 3._o but_o these_o may_v serve_v the_o turn_n i_o hope_v full_o to_o disprove_v your_o assertion_n sir_n knight_n for_o here_o be_v 7._o author_n allege_v who_o your_o church_n of_o england_n have_v ever_o hold_v for_o good_a and_o learned_a man_n from_o who_o thought_n it_o be_v not_o so_o far_o as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o to_o think_v we_o may_v be_v save_v but_o rather_o so_o deep_o ground_v that_o they_o aver_v it_o constant_o and_o say_v also_o that_o it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o all_o learned_a protestant_n and_o that_o it_o be_v absurd_a to_o think_v otherwise_o do_v you_o not_o then_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n what_o a_o linder_n you_o show_v yourself_o upon_o one_o witakers_n authority_n to_o determine_v a_o matter_n so_o peremptory_o against_o the_o judgement_n of_o so_o many_o great_a doctor_n of_o your_o own_o side_n and_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o best_a learned_a protestant_n and_o that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o goodman_n to_o think_v otherwise_o what_o may_v a_o man_n think_v by_o this_o you_o do_v with_o our_o catholic_a author_n and_o father_n who_o you_o neither_o have_v so_o much_o to_o do_v with_o nor_o understand_v so_o well_o nor_o care_n so_o much_o for_o as_o you_o do_v for_o these_o sage_a man_n forsooth_o of_o your_o own_o the_o pillar_n of_o your_o church_n and_o write_v in_o your_o own_o mother_n tongue_n whereof_o it_o be_v to_o be_v presume_v you_o can_v skill_n a_o little_a more_o then_o of_o latin_a but_o now_o for_o the_o main_a matter_n or_o argument_n which_o you_o intend_v to_o answer_n how_o be_v it_o answer_v you_o see_v so_o many_o learned_a protestant_n think_v we_o may_v be_v save_v live_v and_o die_v in_o our_o faith_n without_o your_o limitation_n of_o invincible_a ignorance_n and_o mere_o in_o regard_n we_o be_v a_o true_a church_n the_o family_n of_o christ_n the_o house_n of_o god_n hold_v the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n and_o that_o the_o point_n of_o controversy_n be_v not_o of_o such_o necessary_a consequence_n who_o number_n and_o authority_n though_o perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o reform_v your_o judgement_n yet_o to_o we_o it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o ground_v this_o argument_n that_o since_o protestant_a doctor_n make_v no_o doubt_n but_o we_o may_v be_v save_v in_o our_o faith_n and_o no_o doctor_n of_o we_o say_v so_o of_o your_o faith_n it_o be_v out_o of_o doubt_v the_o safe_a way_n to_o embrace_v we_o the_o force_n of_o which_o argument_n you_o go_v not_o about_o to_o avoid_v otherwise_o then_o by_o deny_v that_o to_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o learned_a protestant_n which_o be_v prove_v to_o be_v so_o manifest_o the_o argument_n still_o have_v his_o force_n and_o the_o 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turkism_n to_o be_v a_o safe_a way_n than_o the_o catholic_a faith_n or_o even_o the_o knight_n protestant_n faith_n he_o begin_v then_o with_o put_v the_o case_n we_o may_v be_v save_v and_o then_o lay_v for_o a_o ground_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o persist_v in_o that_o church_n where_o both_o side_n agree_v then_o where_o one_o part_n stand_v single_a in_o opinion_n add_v withal_o that_o if_o he_o make_v not_o good_a the_o title_n of_o his_o book_n to_o wit_n that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o safe_a way_n he_o will_v reconcile_v himself_o to_o the_o roman_a church_n &_o creep_v upon_o all_o four_o to_o his_o holiness_n for_o a_o pardon_n and_o then_o fall_v to_o prove_v it_o in_o this_o manner_n that_o because_o both_o agree_v say_v he_o in_o the_o belief_n of_o heaven_n and_o hell_n and_o that_o we_o stand_v single_a in_o the_o belief_n of_o purgatory_n and_o limbus_n puerorum_fw-la we_o be_v not_o therefore_o in_o so_o safe_a a_o way_n so_o of_o the_o merit_n and_o satisfaction_n of_o christ_n all_o agree_v that_o man_n be_v to_o be_v save_v by_o they_o but_o we_o stand_v single_a in_o the_o addition_n of_o the_o saint_n merit_n and_o our_o own_o satisfaction_n and_o so_o forward_o of_o the_o number_n of_o sacrament_n image_n prayer_n to_o saint_n &_o the_o like_a which_o be_v the_o whole_a discourse_n of_o this_o section_n 2._o whereto_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o that_o his_o ground_n of_o safety_n which_o he_o think_v he_o take_v from_o catholic_n be_v foolish_a impertinent_a and_o without_o sense_n as_o see_v set_v it_o down_o for_o thus_o he_o say_v it_o be_v the_o safe_a way_n to_o persist_v in_o that_o church_n where_o both_o side_n agree_v then_o where_o one_o part_n
stand_v single_a by_o themselves_o in_o opinion_n for_o i_o will_v know_v what_o church_n be_v that_o wherein_o there_o be_v two_o side_n to_o agree_v or_o disagree_v or_o what_o church_n that_o be_v that_o do_v not_o stand_v single_a in_o opinion_n by_o itself_o if_o it_o be_v a_o church_n of_o a_o different_a faith_n as_o we_o speak_v here_o of_o a_o church_n a_o church_n must_v have_v unity_n it_o be_v a_o company_n of_o man_n all_o profess_v the_o same_o faith_n and_o religion_n therefore_o it_o be_v plain_a there_o be_v no_o sense_n in_o this_o principle_n of_o he_o as_o it_o be_v he_o or_o as_o he_o put_v it_o down_o but_o as_o the_o catholic_n put_v it_o it_o have_v very_o good_a sense_n thus_o that_o whereas_o there_o be_v several_a profession_n and_o church_n the_o question_n be_v which_o of_o these_o be_v the_o safe_a way_n we_o catholic_n say_v the_o catholic_a church_n be_v the_o safe_a way_n and_o this_o we_o prove_v because_o not_o only_o we_o ourselves_o say_v it_o add_v 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title_n at_o all_o i_o see_v not_o for_o all_o that_o he_o say_v of_o it_o in_o either_o place_n be_v only_o this_o that_o he_o think_v no_o man_n so_o blind_a or_o stupid_a as_o to_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v the_o same_o substantial_o with_o that_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n which_o be_v a_o goodly_a catch_n to_o make_v so_o fair_a a_o title_n for_o the_o second_o place_n be_v pag._n 174._o in_o the_o 5._o §_o of_o the_o three_o and_o 6._o §_o of_o the_o four_o edition_n which_o be_v of_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n where_o have_v say_v that_o a_o man_n will_v glad_o know_v what_o the_o reason_n be_v why_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v forbid_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o withal_o cite_v
gerson_n treatise_n in_o the_o margin_n which_o as_o he_o there_o acknowledge_v show_v the_o cause_n i_o there_o reprehend_v he_o for_o it_o as_o may_v be_v see_v here_o chap._n 9_o §_o 5._o n._n 7._o now_o as_o it_o seem_v reflect_v upon_o his_o own_o absurdness_n therein_o in_o his_o 4._o edition_n he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o gerson_n show_v the_o cause_n as_o he_o say_v before_o but_o declare_v they_o himself_o out_o of_o gerson_n say_v they_o be_v these_o to_o wit_n the_o length_n of_o lay_v man_n beard_n the_o loathsomeness_n to_o drink_v after_o other_o the_o costlinesse_n and_o difficulty_n of_o get_v wine_n the_o frost_n in_o winter_n the_o fly_v in_o summer_n the_o burden_n of_o bear_v the_o danger_n of_o spill_v and_o the_o people_n unworthines_n to_o equal_v the_o priest_n in_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n thus_o far_o be_v gerson_n word_n as_o he_o cit_v they_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n continue_v the_o discourse_n himself_o in_o this_o manner_n and_o thus_o for_o 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kind_n especial_o since_o the_o multiplication_n of_o the_o faithful_a have_v be_v lawful_o and_o reasonable_o introduce_v &_o this_o for_o the_o avoidind_n of_o manifold_a danger_n of_o irreverence_n and_o scandal_n in_o the_o receive_n of_o this_o most_o bless_a sacrament_n the_o first_o danger_n be_v in_o spill_v the_o second_o in_o carriage_n from_o place_n to_o place_n the_o three_o in_o the_o fowl_a of_o the_o vessel_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v hallow_v &_o not_o handle_v or_o touch_v ordinary_o by_o lay-people_n and_o much_o less_o ought_v the_o consecrate_a wine_n to_o be_v sell_v in_o shop_n as_o it_o be_v say_v to_o be_v with_o such_o man_n that_o be_v the_o bohemian_o whoe_o stand_v for_o the_o use_n of_o the_o chalice_n the_o four_o be_v in_o the_o long_a beard_n of_o lay-man_n the_o five_o in_o the_o keep_n thereof_o for_o the_o sick_a because_o in_o the_o vessel_n it_o may_v become_v vinager_n and_o so_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n will_v cease_v to_o be_v there_o be_v neither_o to_o be_v receive_v nor_o to_o be_v consecrate_v a_o new_a without_o mass_n and_o so_o it_o may_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o pure_a vinager_n may_v come_v to_o be_v give_v in_o steed_n of_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n beside_o that_o in_o summer_n fly_n will_v breed_v how_o close_o soever_o the_o vessel_n shall_v be_v shut_v some_o time_n also_o it_o will_v putrify_v or_o become_v as_o it_o be_v noisome_a to_o drink_v and_o this_o reason_n be_v very_o efficacious_a as_o also_o for_o a_o other_o reason_n when_o many_o have_v drink_v before_o and_o we_o may_v ask_v in_o what_o vessel_n so_o great_a a_o quantity_n of_o wine_n shall_v be_v consecrate_v at_o easter_n for_o ten_o or_o twenty_o thousand_o person_n the_o sixth_o harm_n be_v in_o the_o costlinesse_n of_o wine_n at_o lest_o in_o many_o place_n where_o there_o be_v scarce_o wine_n find_v to_o celebrate_v withal_o &_o in_o other_o place_n where_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v have_v but_o at_o a_o dear_a rate_n beside_o there_o will_v be_v danger_n of_o congeling_n or_o turn_v to_o â—ee_n again_o there_o will_v be_v danger_n of_o credulity_n and_o this_o many_o way_n first_o that_o the_o dignity_n of_o the_o laity_n be_v as_o great_a in_o the_o receive_n of_o this_o sacrament_n as_o that_o of_o priest_n second_o that_o so_o to_o do_v be_v ever_o and_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o necessity_n &_o so_o all_o that_o have_v do_v and_o do_v think_v practice_n or_o teach_v otherwise_o have_v perish_v and_o do_v perish_v and_o general_o all_o as_o well_o clark_n doctor_n and_o prelate_n who_o have_v not_o oppose_v themselves_o against_o such_o a_o custom_n by_o word_n and_o writing_n and_o that_o they_o have_v pervert_v the_o scripture_n three_o that_o the_o virtue_n and_o force_n of_o this_o sacrament_n be_v not_o more_o principal_o in_o the_o consecration_n then_o in_o the_o receive_n four_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o think_v right_o of_o the_o sacrament_n nor_o be_v herein_o to_o be_v imitate_v five_o that_o general_a counsel_n and_o particular_o this_o of_o constance_n have_v err_v in_o faith_n and_o good_a manner_n six_o it_o will_v many_o way_n be_v occasion_n of_o sedition_n and_o shisme_n in_o our_o part_n of_o christendom_n as_o experience_n show_v in_o bohemia_n hitherto_o be_v the_o word_n of_o gerson_n by_o the_o only_a read_n and_o compare_v whereof_o it_o will_v easy_o appear_v how_o bad_o sir_n humphrey_n have_v deal_v as_o well_o in_o cull_v out_o some_o few_o reason_n of_o least_o force_n as_o also_o in_o deliver_v they_o not_o in_o the_o author_n phrase_n as_o they_o lie_v but_o in_o a_o certain_a ridiculous_a fashion_n of_o his_o own_o for_o first_o he_o mention_v not_o the_o two_o main_a head_n which_o contain_v all_o the_o rest_n and_o be_v chief_o to_o be_v regard_v in_o the_o administration_n of_o sacrament_n to_o wit_n irreverence_n and_o scandal_n then_o among_o the_o danger_n of_o irreverence_n he_o leave_v that_o which_o may_v most_o easy_o 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say_v mass_n withal_o and_o for_o alter_v christ_n institution_n gerson_n say_v the_o express_a contrary_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v a_o error_n to_o say_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o institution_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o necessary_a by_o divine_a institution_n but_o that_o we_o do_v not_o contemn_v it_o as_o say_v he_o doctor_n teach_v of_o confirmation_n and_o extreme_a unction_n which_o be_v say_v to_o be_v sacrament_n not_o of_o necessity_n which_o truth_n be_v suppose_v i_o see_v not_o but_o gerson_n reason_n may_v be_v good_a and_o sufficient_a to_o prove_v his_o intent_n which_o be_v to_o show_v the_o manifold_a irreverence_n and_o scandal_n which_o may_v come_v by_o the_o use_n of_o both_o kind_n for_o example_n be_v it_o not_o a_o undecent_a thing_n to_o see_v