Confut. For the holy doctours doe note two kindes of perfections The one of the waie in which we walke August de pâ—cca meâ—â—tis The other of the Countrie to which we goe etremiss lib. 2â— C 13. The one of this life the â—ther of the life to come The one coÌ„sisting in deniyng coÌ„sent vnto coÌ„cupisceÌ„ces notwithstanding we feele manie of themâ—â— the other consisting in a perfite peace of body and soule without any motion to euill To fulfil the lawe so that no motion of euill come to our thoughtes it is for an other worlde but not to obey the Concupiscencies that is such a perfection as many in this life doe come vnto and that is a fulfilling of the lawe of God in respect of our pilgrimage Paul sharply rebuked Peter Apolog Barnabas departed from Paul c. Did Catholike Fathers striued one against an other Ergo we should not be so greatly noted for dissensions which are fouÌ„d amoÌ„g vs. The Apostles and holy Fathers haue so striued Conâ—ut â—39 that they kept vnitie of faith and religion And they were not so set that they would liue and dye in the quarel But your Strifes are in principal maters of ReligioÌ„ aÌ„d you be so obstinat eche of you in his opinion that no Authoritie shal make yow geue ouer and yelde which is not so emonge the Catholikes whereas al are obedient vnto one head Iustine the Martyr is witnes Apolog. that al Christians were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Godlesse Ergo this ought not to trouble vs that they cal vs wicked and vngodly men The cause is not like Confutiâ—â—tion 151. For if infidels speake euil of vs it is no mater because they are not our Ordinaries or Iudges But wheÌ„ the Catholiks froÌ„ whoÌ„ ye receued the faith and without whom ye can not be sure of the Articles of your faith wheÌ„ these that haue beÌ„ aÌ„d shuld be your Fathers and Rulers doe condemne your deedes it should be a very simple coÌ„fort vnto yow that Infidels of olde tyme did speake against Christians Of the same kind of argument it is where you say Haman accused the Iewes as a people that vsed certaine new lawes Fol. 228. The AtheniaÌ„s said to S. Paul may we know what new doctrine this is Celsus writing of purpose against Christ what saith he hath God after so many ages now aâ— last so late bethought him selfe Eusebius writeth that ChristiaÌ„ religion was called new and strainge Ergo tâ—â—y bâ— wicked mâ—n spiteful against the religiâ—â—â— of God which cal vs new fangled These arguments are naught For the testimonie of Infidels against Christianâ— is nothing worth but the Sentence olde Catholikes vpon newfangled Protestantes hath much authority in it Paul the Apostle found faults falles cueÌ„ in the prime chief of the Gospel Apolog. so that he was coÌ„pelled to write sharply to the Galathians Corinthians Ergo the Church may faile and goe amisse I answer Confut. 200. faults may be coÌ„mitted either in lifeâ— either in faith Againe particular churches may erre both in life and faith The Church of Rome may erre in life but neuer in faith because the whole church then shuld be deceiued as which is bouÌ„d to obey the chief pastor like as he is priÌ„cipally bouÌ„d to feed and instruct it But this is impossible Mat. 16. Ioa. n 14. the ê“mises of God staÌ„ding aÌ„d the preseÌ„ce of the Holyghost assistiÌ„g it Ergo though S. Paul fouÌ„d errors in particular Churches this caÌ„not iÌ„port that the whol Church may be deceued or that One Church of Rome vpoÌ„ the safty and trust of which the helth of the whole depeÌ„deth Pighius findeth fault with many abuses brought in Apolog. eueÌ„ into yâ— very Masse GersoÌ„ coÌ„plaineth of a nuÌ„bre of most fond ceremonies Ergo the Church may erre You might wel say Confut. 206. Ergo a particular Church may erre in a ceremony or suche like thing about the Masse it self But this is nothing to the purpose to proue that the whole Church may erre or that the chief Church of al which is in Rome may err in faith Now as Pighius fouÌ„d fault with abuses so haue the Heades of the Churches geueÌ„ charge Sess. 6. that thei shuld be amended As in the very last CouÌ„cel at TreÌ„t By which you may perceiue that although fauts be fouÌ„d in the church yet ar they not alowed generally of the Church Bernard was no heretike Apolog. he had not forsaken yâ— Catholike Church yet neuerthelesse he did not let to cal the Bishops that then were deceiuers begylers aâ—â—â— Pilats Ergo the Church may erre As he letted not to cal som deceuers Confutation .209 etâ— so he testifieth for other that they weâ—â— good and faithful Officers in the Church As Martianus the Cardinal and Gaufriâ— Carnotensis Bernard de consideratioÌ„e both of them Legates oâ— the Pope the one into Dacia and the other into Aquitania He prayseth also Eugenius the Pope excedingly and yet without flaterie Whereby it is easy to perceaue that all were not like them whome he reproueth And therefore the whole Churche was not deceiued though some were Pilates and not Prelates An other answer is that this Obiection doth not proue errour in faith of which the question is but of maners which God amend and which hurt not the good men no more than the chaffe and strawe doth the pure corne The Grekes haue neyther priuate Masse Apologâ— nor mangled Sacramentes nor purgatories nor pardons Ergo they holde a still numbre of those thinges which they receiued from the Apostles Confutâ— 267. First the antecedent is starke false Then concerning the Argument it is not only false but folishe also For it concludeth an Affirmatiue of one kind of a plaine and pure Negatiue of an other as if a man would say The Church of Englande hath neither Crosses in their churches neither order of Monastical life in their Religion neither Latine tongue lightes or ornameÌ„ts in their Seruice Er go it holdeth stil a nuÌ„ber of those things which it receiued of S. Austin the Monk It is madnes to think yâ— the Holygost taketh his flight froÌ„ a general CouÌ„cel to â—un to Rome Apolog. Ergo yâ— Pope may erre Confut. 281. It is madnes in dede so to think And wher then had you the wit to imagin it For what place caÌ„ you apoint to a Spirit and especially what boundes vnto God Beware of it least whiles ye seke so gredily to flout your aduersary ye blaspheme in your foule termes and Ironies the holy Ghost our Creatour Item Apolo what needed so many Bishops with so greate charges so far iourneis haue assembled theyr conuocation at Trident if the Bishop of Rome must determine al maters Ergo he may erre If you had bene so obedient Confut. 281. or if other were so wise as they should be General Councels should
not neede But because the world is now come to that Infirmity aÌ„d curiositie that maters must be defended against al obiections of heretikes and brought againe vnto examination after they haue ben already determined and beleued therefore hath the charitie and wisedom of the Popeâ— stoode to the charges of calling a general Councell which facte of his doth not proue that he may erre which the holy Ghost wil not suffer for his presence sake in the Church but that he doth so reasonably and discreetly order those maters that shal concerne our Faith that he wil not erre as much as mans wit can prouide but haue also the Aduise Consent and Iudgement of other which are of most authoritie and lerning in the Church of Christ. Let the Bishope of Rome alone Apol. be aboue al Councells Ergo one parte is greater than the whole No Syr Confut. 284 not parte greater than the whole but parte shall be greater than parte and one member worthier than an other The bodie and heade togeather make the whole and take away the head ye take away a parte of the whole Ye can not therfore make a diuisioÌ„ of the church into the whole and the heade but into the head and the reast of the partes of the whole And then it is no absurditie at all that the heade should be greater in price and honor than al the other members beside Athanasius denied to come to yâ— councell at Cesarea Apolog. Athanasius went away from the CouÌ„cell at Syrmium IhoÌ„ Chrysostom kept himself at home although the Emperour commaunded him to come to the Arrians Councel Maximus and Paphnutius depaâ—ted from the Councell at Palestine The Bishops of the East would not come to the Councel of Heretiks named Patropassians Paulinus and many others moe refused to come to the CouÌ„cell at Milane Ergo we are not to be blamed for not comming to the Councel at Trent You mutiply examples al in vaine Confut. 293. aÌ„d there is no proportion at al betwene the holy Fathers constancy and your disobedieÌ„ce For they refused to be at the commaundent of heretikes and their Fauourers but you contempne the lawfull Authority of Catholike Bishops If ye could truly say it that the Fathers gathered of late at Trent were ArriaÌ„s PatropassiaÌ„s or heretikes of any sort then might you laufully vse the examples of Athanasius Chrysostome Maximus Paphnutius and other But for as much as it is impossible that they could be heretikes which held no strainge and singular opinioÌ„s contrary to the Catholike coÌ„mon and receiued faith in the whole world you haue no excuse left for your pride aÌ„d disobedieÌ„ce That Cathalike Bishopes haue refused to come to the conspiracies of heretikes ye neuer neede to haue proued it But if ye can shew by any example that euer any good man yet did refuse to come to a CouÌ„cel lawfully called by the Pope then may that example make for you but there is none suche to be founde None of vs can be suffered to sit in yâ— Councell Apolog. The Popes Legats Patriarchs Archebishopes Bishopes and Abbates do conspire togeather sit alone by them selues and haue power alone to geue theyâ— consente And they wil haue al theyr opinions to be iudged at the will and pleasure of the Pope Princes and Embassadoures are but vsed as mocking stockes Ergo leâ—â—e not the wise and good maruaile if we haue those rather to sit at home then to iourney to the Conucel The Apostles neuer made such argumentes Confut. 294 And you if ye had in dede the holy ghost and if ye were chosen vesselles to cary the name of God abrode ye would neuer so childishely either without causâ— feare or if ye had a iust cause complainâ— and whine that you shal not sit whenâ— you come to the general Councel or that then ye shal haue a number of Bishopeâ— and Abbates against you or that al shalâ— be referred to the Pope or that they wilâ— mocke you if ye goe thither For none of all these thinges should haue letted you from telling your opinionâ— and for the rest you should haue referred al to the will of God what successe your words should haue had But either ye be so prowde that except you maie be of the chiefest you wil not come into the presence of reuereÌ„d and lerned Fathers or ye be so fainteharted that except the Prince be on your syde ye dare non trust the warrant of a safeconduct A Christian Prince hath the charge of both tables committed vnto him Apolog. Ergo not only temporal maters but Ecclesiastical also pertaine to his office He hath the Charge of both tables so far foorth Confut. .303 that he must defend the external geauing of due honour vnto God and outwarde exhibiting of charitie towards our neighbour But to offer vp Sacrifice to minister Sacramentes or to iudge of Murder Adultery Theft or any thing that is coÌ„mitted only in hart hath he any power Euery man seeth that worldly Princes meddle not with suche maters And therefore theyr charge is baser and narower thaÌ„ the charge of Bishopes and Priestes whom God hath appointed to be his Officers in the inward Courte of Conscience The prophets of God coÌ„maunded the Kinges to breake doune altars of Idols Apolog. and to write out the books of yâ— Law for them selues Ergo Ecclesiastical maters perteine to the iurisdiction of Kinges You see Confut. 303. then that the Princes are not Supreme but that betwene them and God the Prophete is the greater Officer For the Prophets coÌ„mauÌ„d the priÌ„ces obey The Prophets geaue charge the princes doe execute it The prophetes declare what an Idol is the Princes destroie it according to the prophetes instruction Moyses â— Ciuile Magistrate recieued from God Apolog. and delyuered to the people al the order for religion and sacrifices and gaue Aaron a sore rebuke for making the golden calfe Ergo ecclesiastical matters perteyne to the office of princes This example agreeth not Confut. 05. because Moyses was not a Ciuile magistrate only but also a priest And he was made also by God the supreme gouernour and captaine ouer al the number of the children of Israel were they temporal or Spiritual persons in figure of Christ. If ye can shew that our Sauiour left any such power vnto any king in the world and that his Apostles were not immediatly next vnto hiÌ„ the chiefe gouernors of his church then shal that temporal King haue the power whach ye labour to geaue him Iosue receyued commaundementes towchinge Religion and the seruice of God Apolog. Ergo Ecclesiasticall maters perteyne to theyr Iurisdiction He receyued commaundement Confut. 305. to meditate in the boke of the law which God had geauen by Moyses and to keepe it But this was so sar of from a Supremacy in maters Ecclesiasticall that it is expressly sayd in the boke of Numeri Cap. 17. that Eleazar the
prieste should aske councell of God if any thing were to be done for Iosue and that Iosue should goe furth and come in at the word of Eleazar And this one answer serueth all the Examples which ye bring in of King Dauid Salomon Ezechias Iosaphat Iosias Ioas Iehu By which ye wold proue that they had iurisdiction in maters Ecclesiastical For they dyd nomore then than Christian princes doe now euen those princes that are obedieÌ„t to the See of Rome For they buyld Churches and finde Singingmen and Priestes to keepe dayly seruyce they geaue Bishoprikes they put Bishoppes byside theyr offices as Queene Marie did put CraÌ„mer anâ— Ridly aÌ„d tweÌ„ty thiÌ„gs moe they do abouâ— maters of religioÌ„ not as Supreme Gouernours but as deuout and faithfull Princes being glad to doe for the Churche whatsoeuer the Spiritual heades thereof shal moue them vnto and being ready to defend the faith of the Churche as they shall learne it of their Bishops It remaineth then that you shew not that the kinges in the olde lawe did set furth the Seruice of God displace Priests commauÌ„ded the temple to be clensed destroyed Idols c but that they did these thiÌ„gs by their absolute power without askiÌ„g aduise leue or instructioÌ„ of the priests Constantine called the Councell at Nice Apolog. Theodosius the Councel at Constantinople Theodosius the second the CouÌ„cel at Ephesus Martian the Councel at ChalcedoÌ„ Ergo Ecclesiastical matters perteine to the Office of Princes They called these Councels Confut. .308 not by vertue of their supreme autority but by the asseÌ„t of the B. of Rome And so Princes haue to do with the maters of the Churche at the second hand only The Emperour ConstaÌ„tine gaue in yâ— CouÌ„cel of Nice his aduise to yâ— Bishops Apolog. how it was best to trie out the mater by yâ— Apostles Prophets writings Ergo he bare a great stroke with his Authority in their consultation As great stroke as he bare Confut. .313 he strake not the head of the Church froÌ„ the body nor made himself Supreme Euseâ—ius in vita Constant. lib. 3. Theodor. lib. 1. c. 7. But that ye may vnderstaÌ„d how litle he toke vpoÌ„ hiÌ„ he came in last into the Councel with a smal coÌ„pany and sate not doune before he had desired the Bishops to permit it and then also he sate but in a low chaire As for geuing of aduise how things were best to be done it is lauful for the least â—rier Abbate or Doctor in a Councel to do the like and yet euery Frier that speaketh in a general CouÌ„cel is not supreme head of the Church nor of the vocation and Authoritie to define or geaue sentence on any Canon In the third Councel at Conâ—â—antinople ConstaÌ„tine a Ciuile Magistrate did not only â—itte among the Bishoppes but did also subscribe with them In the Councel called Arausicanum Apolog. the Princes Embassadours gaue their consent and put to their handes Ergo ecclesâ—iastical matters pertein to Princes So likewise to subscribe vnto the Decrees of a Councel Confut. 316. and to geue their coÌ„sent vnto matters there determined it is and may be ê‘ermitted vnto meane layemen but to define determine decree and geue Authority vnto a Canon it is neither for Embassadours nor Ciuile Magistrates nor Emperours of the whole world but for Bisshops only whom God hath apointed to gouerne his Church Gods grace is promised to a good mind Apolog to one that fereeth him Ergo not to the Sees and Successours This would folow Confut. 334. if God vsed to geue but one kinde of Grace such as maketh the receauer good But now there is a Grace of faith hope and charitie and it is not an euil minde that hath it There is the grace of preaching working of miracles healing of diseases c. and he may be euill that hath it To be a Kinge it is by the grace of God and that grace continued vntil a certaine time in the Seed and Succession of Dauid yet were not all they of a good mynde that were kinges of Iuda By which it appeareth that your Argument is false and that the grace of Authoritie and continuance is geauen not only vnto the good but the euill that folow in the race and succession Peter when he was at Rome Apol. neuer taught the Gospell neuer fed the flocke c. sate him doune onely in his castle in S. Ihon Laterane aud poynted out with his fynger the spaces of Purgatorie gaue orders to say priuate Masses c. consecâ—ated wyth hys holie breath oyle wax wolle belles c. mainteyned warres set Princes togeather at variance c. Ergo Peter did all thinges like vnto the Pope Of whose deuising is this Argument Confut. 335. Vndoubtedly no Catholike hath the 〈◊〉 to make it Do the ProtestaÌ„ts then speakâ—â—â—â— al this of S. Peter in sad ernest ' â— thinkeâ—â— not so euill of them although they can beâ—â—â— sometimes desperat How then Doe they speake it but in sport and dalie only with theyr Aduersaries The cause is to great to vse in so large wise such mockery Set him vpon the Stage with a furd cap and a motly cote he wil plaie the vice without a vizarde and make gaie sporte to the cumpanie Men say Apolog. that one Cobilon a Lacedemonian when he was sent Embassador to treate of a league found by chaunce them of the Courte playing at dice he retourned straytewayes home againe leauing his message vndone For he sayd it should be a greate reproche to his Common wealth to make a league with dycers Ergo it should be a greate blot to our name to returne to the Pope CabiloÌ„ might be parchaunce a wisemaÌ„ in his own generation but in these daies Confutation 337. he should not be much better than an impatient or Solemne Fole For to play at 〈◊〉 it is not absolutely and in all tymes â—laces and persons euil And to let that â—vndone vpon priuate coÌ„ceipt and iudgeâ—eÌ„t which is put vpoÌ„ any maÌ„ by coÌ„mon coÌ„sent aÌ„d authoritie it is not in most cases alowable But such now is the ê‘fection of the new Gospellers they wil not be at any league with dycers or euill lyuers aÌ„d in theyr coÌ„gregatioÌ„s aÌ„d fraternities ther is I trow no blot of infamy to be feared With what countenance then loke they wheÌ„ they come into the Courtes of Princes or noblemen Do they fin dno dycing â—here and no euil lyuing I haue so good opinion of these mens holines that if the Pope with al his Cardinalles would take themselues to Wyues so to cal harlotes aÌ„d in other things doe accordingly to the forme of the new Gospel he should not only haue a league made with him but also be mainteined in his supremacy which he hath in Christendome And the Cobiâ—on that should be sent Embassadour for the purpose wold neuer returne again â—â—â—uinge his message vndon though 〈◊〉
plaied at dice neuer so much The Popes would needes make 〈◊〉 the realme triâ—utary to them Apolog. Ergo 〈◊〉 most iustly haue forsaken them It is not for Diuines to alleage anâ— such temporal cause Confut. â—49 of mony mater 〈◊〉 their defence in departiÌ„g froÌ„ the churcâ—â— For seeing that the Popes Authority â—â—meth froÌ„ God what discharge of my 〈◊〉 is that to me if he do more than 〈◊〉 shuld by right and Conscience Do noâ— temporal princes somtimes oppresse theiâ— Subiectes and yet continew in their place and authority aboue their subiectsâ— Your Argument therefore and fact is naught And if the argument were true yet haue you no occasion to depart from the See of Rome vnto which in Quene Maries time you were reconciled considering that no tribute was required of you no not so much as the restitution of the Abbey landes The Second Chapter conteining certaine Absurdities of the English Apologie They be not mad at this day Apolog. so many free cities so many Kings so many Princes which haue falleÌ„ away from the seate of Rome and haue rather ioyned themselues to the Gospell of Christ. HOW thinke you then Confut. .16 by coÌ„mon reason May any Protestant say that AL free Cities AL Kinges AL Princes and AL Christen men and womeÌ„ froÌ„ the highest to the lowest were mad in these last ix hundred yeares in which yow disdaine and yet confesse the Pope to haue ben obeied of all Christendome and him selfe in so saying be nothing madde Or can you reproue your Aduersaries if they be so vnmannerly and hasty in their termes as to call yours so many free Cities c. madde where your selues iudge that all your Forefathers for hundred of yeares together haue bene madde when they all folowe â–ª with one consent Papistrie If it were a synne in the Heluetianâ— to deliuer their own countrie from foreâ— gouernment Apolog. specially wheÌ„ they were 〈◊〉 proudly and tyranniously oppressed yet to burthen vs with other mens faultes or them with the faultes of theire forefathers it is against all right and reason Why then do you obiect against the Catholiques the euill liues and deedes of Popes Confut. 177. Cardinalles Monkes Friers Priestes which may be founde in anie sorte or condition of men after some continuance of tyme and age And why tel you abiding in Englande tales vppon Italy Spayne or other countries of Aloisios Casios Diasios and others to burthen thereby the knowen and auncient Church In tymes past Apolog. where the first Christians our forefathers in making their prayers to God did tourne them selues towardes the Easte there were that sayed they worshipped the Sunne and reckened it as God And you Confut. .191 to proue your selues the sweete Sonnes and exacte folowers of Antiquitie haue altered the olde maner and custom of the Catholike Church by charginge your Ministers to praye towardes the sowth and that in the chiefest tyme and place of all your deuotion and Religion If you knew whether to turne your selues after the putting awaye of the olde faith and ceremonies thereof why chose you the south rather than the East And why remembred ye not the first Christians vsage Except notwithstanding the remembrance of it you regarded not what they had don and practised How absurdly then cal you them the first Christians and your forefathers whom ye disdain or be ashamed to folow in the maner of their praying That old Father Augustine denyeth it to be leefull for a monke to spende his tyme slouthfully Apolog. and vnder pretensed holinesse to liue all vpon others And who so thus liueth an olde father Apollonius likeneth him to a theefe See the pity which these men take of the old Fathers Confut. 239. because their sayinges are not regarded and see the pityful absurdity in which themselues are taken whiles they would seeme to alowe the old Fathers S. Augustine liketh not the idlenes of Monkes but ydlenes put away did he not alow the order of them His booke is De opere Monachorum of the labour of Monkes prouing that none of them must so thinke hym selfe addicted to the seruice of God in praying reading or in spirituall exercises that he should not sette his handes to corporal labour And he maketh it not a case of necessitie that euerie Monke must labour but he impugneth theyr sayinges which made a necessitie of it not to labour wyth the bodie for theyr lyuing but to serue God and man by the labour of mynd only as in praying preaching and such like Nowe therefore if S. Augustine would haue had the very Order it selfe and profession of Monkes destroyed he should haue made short and saied not that such monks as wold hold the opinioÌ„ that they should not labour bodily ought to be sette therevnto but simplie and plainly he would haue concluded that all Munkerie should be taken away And then how could he make a whole Booke De opere Monachorum of the labour of Monkes except he would find some what where nothing is and build a house without labourers But you whom the idlenes of Monkes offendeth and the neglecting of the old Fathers orders shew to vs I pray you your refourmed Monasteries Let Heretikes shevv their monasteries And if your factes haue declared before and yet hytherto your rayling tongues can testifie that ye hate the verie Order and Rule of Monkes nor would abide a laboriouse and a vertuous Monke in your companie how vnsensiblie doe you confesse the olde Fathers to haue spoken againste idle Monkes whereby they signifie no abhomination to be in the Order it selfe your selues allwayes so mockingly and spitefully handeling not distinctly idle Monkes but without all addition Monkes As maye appeare by Iohn Foxes no litle booke of Actes and MonumeÌ„ts to name one for all and by your great muse in the next sentence folowing these words of which I speake where you wote not whether to name them droues or heardes of Monks as though no other title might be geuen vnto them besides that which is proper for brute beastes Concerning the old Father Apollonius if idle Monkes be theeues what call you them which doe robb and spoile not only the idle but the laborious and holy Monkes And robbe them not of their house land and goodes only but of their fame and estimation and robbe againe not only the Monkes but the iust and true owners of such goodes as were bestowed vpon Monasteries But put the case al Monks had bene theeues He that robbeth a theefe is he not him selfe a theefe And if by stelth a true mans landes be taken from him should it not returne in conscience vnto him againe if truth and Iustice were sought for and not gaine or priuate lust How well therefore your Procedinges agree with truth and honestie Apolog. lette it be iudged by the spoyle of Monkes and Monasteries The old Councell at Carthage commaunded nothing to be readde in Christ hys Congregation
ready to diminsh the numbre of Ceremonies that the greatest papist in the world would not aske more fauor in the questioÌ„ aÌ„d cause of theÌ„ First if the Scripture doth alow anie order or fashioÌ„ it is not vaine If the whole Church hath generally receiued ani it is not vaine If it be but a particular Ceremony of one couÌ„trie and be not agaiÌ„st the faith or good maners it is not vaine Yea if anie thing be in it which helpeth to amendement of life it is not vaine By so many waies and for so many causes a ceremony maie wel continue as ye shal finde in that verie epistle of S. Augustin Epi. 119. c. 18. 19. And had you the face so to alleage this holy Doctours complaining of ceremonies as though he would haue as few as you What Sacrament haue you about which ye doe occupie oile What thinke you of the fast of lent What of Alleluia betwixt Easter and Witsontide What vse haue you of any Octaues Cap. 7. 15. 18. Yet of these Ceremonies he maketh mentioÌ„ in the foresaied Epistle and reckoneth that they are to be vsed and regarded Gregory c. if the Church saieth he shall depend vppon one man Apolog. it will at once fal doune to the ground Ye belie him shamfully he hath no such words at al. Conf. 203 Yet the protestaÌ„t may think this impossible that you should haue no more regarde of your honestye Let him seeke then if he be learned and iudge by his owne senses whether any such proposition is ther to be found But is there not a like vnto it Ye as so like as Rome is to Constantinople or Gregorie S. Peters successour to Nestorius of Constantinople an heretike For if a man should seeke for his life to find in that epistle but some resemblance of that which the Apology reporteth he findeth no more but this which I shal declare for th'vnlerned sake Iohn Bishope of Constantinople affected the title of Vniuersal Bishope S. Gregorie then Pope of Rome coÌ„plaineth thereof to Mauritius the Emperour declaring good causes aÌ„d reasons why such presumptioÌ„ should not be suffred Emong other he maketh this argument Lib. 4. epist. 3â— Surely we haue knoweÌ„ manie Prelats of the Church of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople to haue falleÌ„ into the goulfe of heresie and to haue ben not only heretiks but archeheretikes also Nowe for example he nameth Nestorius and Macedonius then bringeth he in therevpon this conclusion If therefore in that church vndoubtedly of Constantinople anie pul vnto himself that name of Vniuersal Bishope ergo which hath ben the iudgement of all good men the whole church which God forbid falleth froÌ„ her state wheÌ„ he falleth which is called Vniuersall An excellent argument vndoubtedly For if the only or Vniuersall Bishope should be at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople that see hauing no priuilege of coÌ„tinuing stil in the right faith as appereth by the archeheretikes which sate ther and al the world being bound to obey the Vniuersal Bishope this one absurditie grauÌ„ted a thousand would folow and that one Bishoppe erring all the whole Church should go a straie Loe this is al that may seme to geue any occasioÌ„ of reporting that which the Apologie hath attributed to S. Gregorie And wher find we here that if the church depeÌ„d vpon one maÌ„ â–ª it must at once fal doune to the ground Wil they yet defend theyr lying Or dare they yet stil abuse the old fathers â—s the Church aÌ„d that Church al one in coÌ„cluding Is depeÌ„ding vpon one man and that man al a like The successor of S. Peter and Bishop in that chaire in which neuer yet was fouÌ„d any archeheretike to set furth naughty doctrin is he al one with a Bishope of ConstaÌ„tinople â–ª which neither succedeth any Apostle and hath bene a defender of heresies let vs see now therfore whether you wil coÌ„fesse your errour in mistaking S. Gregorie Or mainteine your impudencie in misusing of him The bishâ—ps sayth Bernard who now haue yâ— charge of Gods church Apolog. ar not teachers but deceauers they are not feders but begilers thei are not prelats but pilates These words spake Bernard of yâ— B. who nameth him self the highest Bishop of al of yâ— other Bishops likwise which then had the place of gouernement How then Confut. Did S. Bernard forsake al papistrie and abandon the Pope because of those faâ—ltes which he fouÌ„d If he did why taried he in his moÌ„kes cote vnto his death If he did not what vnwise meÌ„ be you to for sake the Church for euil maners sake But coÌ„sider further WhoÌ„ called he deceauers â–ª begâ—â—ers pilats Al the whole order of Bishopes and gouernoures of the Church froÌ„ the Pope dounward Or spake he of some certain only If he noted but some certain aÌ„d â—heÌ„ worthely those other some which were not infected might wel preserue the state of the Church in truth of maners and doctrine that ye need not to feare an vtter destruction 〈◊〉 it and so through wretched foly depart out of it If he spake generally of al then wil I coÌ„fesse that ye are not so much to be blamed for your departing from that Church nor for anie your applieyng of S. Bernardes Authorie to that purpose But because I am sure this is false therefore I charge you and blame you How proue I this I proue it by those very bookes in which as you saie the foresaid wordes against the Pope and Bishopes are For concerning Eugenius him selfe he saieth in the third boke after much complaint or reproufe made of the euil maners of the Court of Rome Haec ad te Berna de CoÌ„s lib â–ª 3 noÌ„ de te scribo I writ this vnto thee not of thee And immediatly he declareth by example how Eugenius refused bagges of monie which came out of Germany and condemned a greate riche bisshop by likelyhode notwithstaÌ„ding his mony And how he gaue of his own vnto an other poore bisshop to geue vnto the officers in the Court least the bisshop should seeme niggish and vncourteous if he should haue nothing rewarded them Now Doth it greaue thee to heare this And I ê™ S. Bernard doe tell it so muche the more gladly by how much thou hearest it the more greauously The Pope theâ— him selfe was none of those deceauers begilers or pilates whom you mention Furth then were al the Cardinalles and Bishops deceiuers c. No neither al they as you may reade it proued in the fourth boke of that worke by the exaÌ„ples of two great Legats The one was Cardinal Martine Cardinal Martin which being sent legate into Dacia a countrie ful of gold and siluer returned yet so poore that for lacke of mony and horses he coulde scarse reach vnto Florence The Bishope of which place gaue him an horse without mention making of any mater to be done for it Yet the legat aÌ„d Cardinal Martin was 〈◊〉 soner at Rome but the bishop of Florence
came also thither And seeking the fauâ—â— of his frinds in a certain cause of his owâ— at length he coÌ„meth to Cardinal Martin Yea sayth he Decepisti me Nesciebâ—tibi imminere negotiuÌ„ tolle equuÌ„ tuuÌ„â— ecce in stabulo est you haue deceued me I knew not ye had any sute in haÌ„d Take your horse to you loe yonder he is in the stable This is one and he I truste no deceauer or Pilate An other Cardinal Gauâ—rid is Gaudfridus Bishope of Cartres which many yeres together was at his own charges Embassadour and legat froÌ„ the Pope in the costs of Gascoigne Of whoÌ„ he telleth that ther was a sturgeoÌ„ brought vnto him by a certain priest but I wil not take him sayd the Cardinall except I pay for him Againe a Ladie of the towne where he lodged brought vnto him for deuotioÌ„ and good wil three treen disshes with a towel he behâ—ld theÌ„ he praised theÌ„ but in any case he would not take them And at both these tymes S. Bernard was present And saieth herevpoÌ„ vnto Eugenius O that we might haue store of such meÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto vs as thes were whoÌ„ I brefly haue spokeÌ„ of If therefore the Pope him selfe was good and some Cardinalles and Bishopes were holie men how can you withoâ— impudencie drawe S. Bernard to such 〈◊〉 sense as thoughe he should condemâ—â— the whole See and Church of Romeâ— And if as I saied before you thinke him not to speake generally what helpeth it your cause in departing from the Church to proue that some Prelates be Pilats Secondly I might wel and truely say that S. Bernard speaketh against the maners of the Court of Rome and not against the faith of the Church of Rome And though he should name the Pope for his euill behauiour which he doth not a Pilate yet concerning his Authoritie and office he geueth vnto him all the titles of excellencie that are found in the Scriptures from Abel to Christ. Affirming besides him to be the shepheard not only of shâ—pe but of all other Shepheardes also â–ª and Others to haue bene called to take parte of the cure but hym to haue fulnes of power with other such wordes more of like sense Thirdly I aunswere he neuer spake so vnreuerentlie of the Pope in all hys workes And that the testimony which you alleage is not in the bookes ad Eugenium The old Father Epiphanius saieth Apolog. it is an horrible wickednes Epiph. and a sinne not to be suffred Haere 61. for any man to set vp any picture of Christ him selfe See how these felowes caÌ„ amplifie and â—et furth a lie Confut. â—35 Epiphanius they thinke â—aketh for theÌ„ and therfore they dresse â—im in their own colours Ye find not in hiÌ„â—either these greauous and mightie terâ—es horrible wickednes and Synne â—ot to be suffred Neither these precise â—onclusions that any man shal not set â—p anie picture Neither this aggrauaâ—ing additioÌ„ of Christ him self He speaâ—eth quietly and he speaketh not geneâ—ally but against a certaine kind of Imaâ—es or honor done to them as appeareth by the words istiusmodi vela such kinâ— of veiles And he prescribeth nothinâ— against the Image of our Sauiour Christâ— If ye wil not leaue this place but proâ—â— that it maketh against Images Pluckâ—â— out first these lies and repaire the testimonie making it neither better neither worse then Epiphanius doth permit you and then shal you be otherwise answered The old fathers Origen Chriysosâ—â— exhort yâ— people to reade the scriptures Apolog. to bye them bookes to reason at home betwixt theÌ„selues of diuine maters wiâ—es with their husbaÌ„ds parents with their childreÌ„ These men condeÌ„ne yâ— scriptures as deade â—lemeÌ„ts And as much as eueâ— they may barre the people from them Ye ioyne these two Fathers togeather as though they both confirmed your lyes Confut. 236. But Origene neither speaketh of byeing bookes Ho. 9. in Leuit ca. â—16 nsither of reasoning at home 〈◊〉 the scriptures but of comiÌ„g to church aÌ„â— heariÌ„g the scriptures and of thinking afterwardes at home vpon the keping of them in mynde and folâ—wing them Then as concerning S. Chrysostome he speaketh agaynst suche as neglected the reading of Scriptures and thought this to he a sufficient excuse for them that they were no Monkes Ho. 2. in Matth. as who shuld saâ—e we haue wife children and household with other things besides to thinke vpon and therefore it is not our vocation to looke in the lawe of God and by that to amende our liues He speaketh likewise against other which loued to haue faier and trym books of the Gospel for ostentation sake not to reade them and profit by them Of which sort ther may be found at this preseÌ„t som in the world which liuing loosly and regarding their soules health slenderly cary yet the testameÌ„t or some parte thereof bouÌ„d vp in goldeÌ„ forel and hang it about their necks like a Iewel But as for the biyng of Scriptures he spaketh it by occasioÌ„ oÌ„ly in reprouiÌ„g such as had books in their cupbords aÌ„d no vnderstaÌ„ding or sense of them in their mind For after he had saied Hom. 3â— in loan This hauing of bookes coÌ„meth of the Iewish ambition and craking vnto whom the coÌ„maundementes were geuen in letters and vnto vs not so but in the tables of our hart which are of fleash least he shuld sem to derogate somwhat hereby vnto the written Scriptures he addeth yet I do not forbid it to gette books yea rather I pray you most ernestly get them but so that we maie repere often in our minde both the letters and sence the of them He was not therefore so careful of it that euery man shoulde bye the scripture but this he studied for that euery man should be diligeÌ„t in bearing away of the scriptures readen â–ª or preached in the open church Proue ye now that S. Chrysostome exhorted all and singular of his people to bye them bookes especially in the vulgar tounge And iudge ye whether he had so little discretion to moâ—e al therevnto which verie few could bring to passe the raritie and pryce of the written bookes being considered Nowe as concerning the other lie that wiues at home with theyr husbandes or children with theyr parentes should reason betwixt themselues of diuine maters either I vnderstand not your englishe or els ye abuse S. Chrysostom most shamefully For if ye meane that al that reasoniÌ„g which you imagin signifieth no more but that the father shuld instruct his sonne aÌ„d the wife geue eare to her husbandes good counsel then surely you must pardoÌ„ me I neuer vnderstood this much before that reasoning of diuine maters should haue so litle question in it But if reasoning betwixt parties doth importe an argueing to aÌ„d fro with obiections solutions replies resolutions diuises suppositioÌ„s c. And if reasoning of diuine maters doth signifie the questioÌ„ proponed not to be of so smal
aduersaries we proue that these three be so with vs that they are not with them it is vnreasonably and impudently set furth in print where he that will may iudge of it that we should be of any other minde than can be proued by euidence of some externall signes We are come to that Church Apolog. wherin they themselues can not denie if they will say truely and as thei think in their owne conscience but all thinges be gouerned purely and reuerently and as much as we possibly could very nere to the order vsed in the olde tyme. Here againe our owne conscience is brought furth against vs Conf. 269 as though thei did see by their sprite what we thinke in wardly though we outwardly shew all signes to the contrary Many Catholikes liue out of their Countrie other many lye in prison within their Country some write whole bookes against the procedings And al I thinke doe speake against them when they may do it without daunger of displeasure What should we doe more to declare that the newe Gospel is damnable Yet al this notwithstanding we thinke in our conscience say the Authors of the Apology that al thinges be gouerned purely and reuerently emong them c. Haue they any honesty which set such faces vpoÌ„ maters Let vs see in al that while of the first syxe moneths in which the Councel sate at Trente of so many Apolog. so manifest so often confessed of them and so euident errors what one errorhaue they amended But what are they first Con. 291. that we may knowe them These men vse of course Apolog. to denie all thinges be they neuer so cleere yea the very same which they presently see and beholde with theyr owne eyes This lye is of the same sute with his foresaied felowes Conf. 317. because it layeth such thinges to our charge as our doeinges proue to be most false and incredible For al the Scriptures we haue receiued and excepte we had commended them no protestant could euer haue trusted them The old Councels and Fathers we more esteme than Protestantes doe we refuse no laufull testimonie of any age That which we see with our eyes we do neuer deny though we vnderstand such thinges as come vnder our senses otherwise than the heretikes doe To whom therefore may I compare these Aduersaries which wil make vs beleue that we see well inough that which we do deny and sometimes denie that which we do see I thinke they are disposed only to make sporte aÌ„d so to plaie in maters of religion like as idel speÌ„ders of theyr wit and time doe in the deuising of mad mery games For when halfe a dosen such are agreed togeather one of them for example laieth handes vpon a quiet man that passeth by And whyle the innocent looketh backe vpon him in commeth an other that helpeth to holde him so fast as though it should be for the kings auantage to haue such a one made sure With that he that without cause is so apprehended wondreth at the matter aÌ„d asketh what they meane aÌ„d stretcheth his power to break away froÌ„ them But he begiÌ„neth no soner to resist but straitwaies they cry helpe Sirs helpe for the Lordes sake this felow is mad see how his colour chaungeth see how he panteth c. And with that the rest of the brotherhoode sore moued with bitter compassion make in to him and for lacke of other sprites there they possesse him and holde him and crie vnto him and kepe such a sturre about him as is able to bring many a man halfe out of his wittes and to perswade with other that stande by and consider the thing that vndoutedly the felow that suffreth the violence is mad and not that they which goe so sadly and constantly to the holding of him should be any thing madde After which sorte if the Authors of the Apologie haue concluded to cry out vpon vs that we can not denie that we knowe in our owne conscience that we knowe for a truth such and such thinges as we lay against them to be false and if they will needes enforce it vpon vs that we can not deny but all thinges are gouerned purely and reuerently amonge them what remedy but patieÌ„ce and to suffer them to cary vs into Bedlem with so many holy and learned men our forefathers as already they haue condemned if they will not be answered with our open confession in worde and deede But if this be vnreasonably done of them to burden vs with such a Conscience as can not be gathered of any our external acte Iudge thou Indifferent Reader whether this be not properly facing of a lye The 10. Chapiter conteining the Problematicall or Hypotheticall lyes with how then what ifs and put case Not so impudent and open faced as other but not vnworthy to be noted and no lesse shameful than the worst of all But I put case Apolog. an Idoll be set vp in the Church of God And the same desolation which Christ prophesied to come stand openly in the holy place It should not long continue Con. 192. I beleue to graunt your case For wheÌ„ Antichrist him selfe shal come he shal be quickelie destroied and neuer haue any successour openlie to syt in his Chaire after him What if some theefe or Pirate inuade and possesse Noes Arke Apolog. I thinke the Arke woulde sinke Conf. 192 And whereas God him self keepeth the Arke his Church and prouideth it to be a place of safety in which the iuste seed shall be preserued to let a Pirate and Theefe to possesse the Arke were as muche to graunt as to lette there be no honestie no Faith no laufull Authoritie in the Church Yea it is as much to saie as I put the case there were no God Howe then if I call furthe those for witnesses Apolo whom them selues haue vsed to honour What if I saie that Adriane the Bishop of Rome did fraÌ„kly confesse that all those myscheefes braste out first frâ—â— the hygh throne of the Pope Mary ye lie Con. â—06 if ye saie so But howe then yf Zwenkeseldius make exclamation on the other syde Apolog. and 〈◊〉 that the same verie wordes be not 〈◊〉 but Hosius owne wordes If he will be so wise as to recall his owne woordes Con. 217 the Churche is mercifull to al that repent If he wil be so desperat as to denie that which is in sighte that shal helpe him nothing in theyr iudgmeÌ„t which knowe Hosius to be a Catholike But howe if the thinges which these men are so desyrous to haue seeme new Apolog. be founde of greateste Antiquitie Contrariwyse howe if all thinges well nie whiche they so greately sette out with the name of Antiquitie hauing bene well throughly examined be at length founde to be but newe and deuised of verie late Verely they wil be strange cases Con. 230. when any suche fall But I
for thee â—eter I haue praied that thy faith should not â—aile and thou being once turned confirme thy bretherne Againe to S. Peter he committeth his whole flocke saying Ioan 21. feede my lambes fede my sheepe To S. Peter then as the singularly chosen the promises are made and the priuileges are by praier obtained aÌ„d the charge by expresse worde is committed Nowe for confirmation of these wordes consider the effectes that haue folowed what heresie was euer mainteined by the See of Rome What question was there euer in the Church of Christ and not referred to that See and determined or pacified by it What See hath continued in al tempestes but onlie the See of Rome Who can shewe theyr succession from the Apostles but onlie the Bishopes of Rome What See is preferred in the writinges of holy Fathers but the See of Rome onlie That is the Chaire vnto which perfidiousnes can haue no accesse 〈…〉 That is the chaire of vnitie in which God hath put the doctrine of veritie 〈…〉 That is the Chaire in which euill men are constrayned to speake good thinges that the faith of the Christians may be out of doubt with them whiles it shall depend vpon the infallible promises of God and not vpon the deceiptful coniectures of men This Churche therefore being the Church which we cal Catholik in which the chiefe Master of the worke laied S. Peter as the first stone next to himselfe and in which there is a continual rew of Bishops one vpon an other to the meruelous strengthning and beautifieng of the whole building against which Church it is impossible that any wind or weather should so preuaile as it might ouerturne it for it is builded vpon a sure Rocke in which Church also there is the presence of the Holyghost sent of our Sauiour to teach it all truth and to tarie with it for euer these thinges being most euident and consequent what a blaspheâ—ouse lye is it to say that Christ hath told longe before that this Churche should erre For what other thiÌ„g is that to say but to blaspheme either the wisedoÌ„ of God as though he had not erected a church that should not erre or his power as though he could not bring it to passe or his Charitie as though he would not or his veritie as though he had not sayed poynting to S. Peter Math. 1â— vpon this Rock I wil build my Churcâ—e and againe I haue prayed for thee Peter Luc. 22. that thy Faith might not faile But for this tyme this is inough to note only the blasphemie he that wil see is more largely betraied and conuinced let him reade Doctor Saunders booke lately set furth of the Rocke of the Church The 12. Of the Contradictions Martin Luther Hulderycke Zuinglius Apolog. â—74 a being most excellent men euen sent of God to geue light to the worlde firste came vnto the knowledge of the Gospell ERgo before their tyme Confut. ther was a generall darknes in the world I wysse it is not so harde a matter to find out Gods Church Apolog. .24 for the Church of God is set vpoÌ„ an hill glistering place Ergo Luther and Zuinglius could not be the first that shoulde see the Church Confut. except either Christ had no Church at all in the world wheÌ„ Luther was borne or except a Citie set vpon an hil and for that purpose vndoubtedly sette that it might be sene should not yet be sene before Luther came in with his lanthorn We saye we haue no meede at all Apolog. 125. by our owne workes and dedes Ergo it booteth not to labour Confut. except it be for nothing God hath plucked vs out from the power of darknes Apolog. 225. to serue the liuing God to cut away all the remanents of synne and to worke out Saluation in feare and trembling Ergo that is not without some meede and rewarde Confut. by which we worke our saluation Our Aduersaries must be heaued froÌ„ their mother Apolog. 194. that is from this vaine coloure and shadow of the Church Ergo ye should vtterly dâ—spise the Church Confut. especially as it is now if yoâ—r aduersaries mother be of no substance but a vaine colour only To say truely Apolog. 192. we doe not despise the Chuâ—che of these men how so euer it be ordered by them now adayes â—rgo the Catholiks Church is no vaine colour of a Church Confut. seing that your selues dare not despise it 〈◊〉 popes had neuer hitherto leisure to 〈…〉 and earnesâ—â—â—e of those matters Apolog 19. 〈◊〉 some other cares do let them and â—iuers waies pul them Item â—61 they compt these thinges to be but coÌ„mon and trifling studies and nothing to appertaine to the Popes worthines Ergo being so carelesse Confut. they would neuer haue perceiued the case of their Religion nor procured men to defend it There haue ben wylily procured by yâ— Bishop of Rome Apolog. certaine persons of eloquence inough and not vnlearned neither which should put their helpe to this cause now almoste despaired of Item In deede they perceyued that their owne cause did euery where goe to wracke Ergo it appeareth Confut. that the Popes haue had care of the cause of Religion In this point that is lifting vp the Sacrament consisteth nowe all theyr Religion Apolog 250. Ergo al is not in salt Confut. water c. In these thinges they meane salt water Apolog. 255. Oyle spittle Palme they haue set all their Religion Ergo all is not in lifting vp the Sacrament Confut. What fault haue they once acknowledged and confessed Apolog. 209. Why burden ye then vs with not amending manifest and ofte confessed faultes Confut. Of so many Apolog 291. so manifest so often confessed by them and so euident errours what one haue they amended Why aske you then Confut. what faulte we haue once confessed For so much as we were most ascertened of God his will Apolog. 327. and compâ—ed it a wicked thing to be careful and ouercuÌ„bred about yâ— iudgments of mortal men Therefore ye should haue neuer called a Synode of mortal men Confut. Yet it foloweth Therefore we thought good to remedie our Churches by a prouincial Sinod Apolog. But what neded a remedy by a Synod Confut. if mortal mens iudgmentes are not to be cared for Our cause against the wil of Emperoures from the beginning Apolog. .15 against the willes of so many Kinges in spite of the Popes and almost maugre the head of al men hath taken encreace c. You neuer nede then Confu to aske leaue that your Gospel may procede if it be so victorious and triumâ—hant that maugre the head of al men almost it take encrease Let them geue the Ghospell free passage Apolog 133. let the trueth of Ihesu Christ geue his clere light
discontinuance or interruption as that it shoulde be saied after manie hundred yeares comming in betwene in which one forme of Religion was vsed now is Luther or Zuinglius sent of God to geaue lyght vnto the world Gather I saie these thinges together and ye shal perceiue that either Christ had no church huÌ„dred of yeres together and that yet he hath none or els that our Catholike Church is the one and only church of Christ. For alother Churches haue either discoÌ„tinued either they haue not bene sensiblie perceiued either they haue ben within memorie erected and so they lacke Succession visiblenes Antiquitie Of whiche three pointes the Church that Luther and Zuinglius went vnto when they departed from the Catholikes had not one But afterwardes when they became them selues builders of A new Church aÌ„d that vpon theyrown heades and Authoritie for they acknowledged no creature then liuing for theyr superiour in that mater theÌ„ in dede it was not long but they gote one of the forsaied three pointes For they kepte such a sore sturre against all Christendome that it was most euideÌ„t that they were a visible Congregation But as for succession and antiquitie they can neuer get it because they can neuer proue it for why they neuer had it Yet for Antiquitie they wil striue and crake as the Authours of the Apologie doe that they doe come as neere as they possiblye can to the Church of the Apostles and of the old Fathers But in the point of Succession they can not tell what to aunswer for them selues For how Let the heretiks shevv their succession thinke they is it possible that the Church of Christ should be without the lauful successioÌ„ of the Apostles Could his wisdom not for see it that for as much as he minded coÌ„tinually to cal in gheasts vnto his feast therefore it was necessary to prouide seruants one after another for that purpose Would his chartie suffer it that togeather with the Apostles deathes his coÌ„passion vpoÌ„ the poore soules of the world shuld die aÌ„d that ther shuld not be for euery age vnto the worlds end like officers for their authority as th' Apostles wer to dispeÌ„se his graces aÌ„d mercies Could not his power perfourme it that come who would none shoulde be hable to staie the succession of his Lieutenants and Vicars What then can the heretike nowe say why he hath not a succession A thing so necessary for the wisedome of God to prouide and so natural for his Charitie to geaue and so proper for his almightines to maintain Verely were it not that he is almightie it is impossible by naturall power and reason that the Bishop of Rome whom heretikes haue alwaies hated at whom the greatest Bishopes in the East Churche haue enuied with whoÌ„ Lordes aÌ„d Ladies of the world haue ben so much offended whom the Barbarous haue so ofte assaulted whom the Christians at home haue so trobled that he yet should continue still and alwaies haue a successour it passeth al cuÌ„passe of mans wisdom and prouisioÌ„ but that he that made him his Vicar in earth is God almightie in â—eauen and earth In some other thinges the heretikes maie so contend with the Catholikes that it will be hard for the indifferent man certainlie to knowe whom he maie folowe They wil alleage the same letter of the Scriptures as the Catholikes doe they wil vse the same couÌ„cels aÌ„d fathers They wil challenge Antiquitie and say that they haue descended from the Apostles like as Parking Warbecke saied he came of king Edward the fourths bloud and what so easie as to saie a worde if one will be desperate and die rather in field than vnsaie it but when they are brought to the mater of succession in which they lacke the verie bare names and much more the Actes and Monumentes of such as they should shewe to haue desceÌ„ded lineally and orderly from the Apostles doune vnto them then loe they are at a staie and haue not one wise worde left to them by which they might aunswer a question so principall and so reasonable And yet they crake stil that they are come to the Churche of the Apostles and of the old Catholike Bishops and Fathers whiche Churche saie they with exceding blindnes or impudencie we know hath hithervnto ben sound and perfite Con. 322. and as Tertullian termeth it a pure Virgine spotted as yet with no Idolatrie nor with any foule or shamefull faulte Note Gentle Reader that they speake of theyr knowledge and excepte theyr knowledge be so diuine and ineffable that neither we can conceaue it nor they well vtter it desire theÌ„ to be so good as to make vs also knowe it For if they knowe the Apostolike Churche to be hythervnto sounde perfite and pure lette them tell vs where it was in the yeare of our Lorde 1500. or 1400. or 1300. The Churche of Rome is knowen to haue stoode in those yeares but all the sorte of them holde it for A Principle that manie errours and faultes were founde then in it Ergo if by theyr saieing that Church had errours what other Church was there in those dayes whiche they knowe to haue bene sound perfite and pure They can reken none at all For al these Weast partes of Christendome folowed the Church of Rome and they theÌ„selues confesse that the Greeke Churche doeth erre Ergo if the Churche of Rome was not sounde and perfite in those foresaied yeares and if the Greeke Churche be notorious for the errours of it howe doe these Felowes knowe that the Apostolike Church hath hithervnto bene sound and perfite For what signifieth hithervnto but euen vnto our time And if the Apostolike Church hath ben found and perfite euen vnto our time there was suche a Churche vndoubtedlie in the yeares of our Lorde 1500. 1400. and 1300. and that Churche was not as they holde the Churche of Rome Ergo some other But there was no other that they knowe to haue ben sound perfite and pure Ergo they speake more then they know and ioyne theÌ„selues close to the Apostolike Church without any succession from the Apostles and crake of a pure aÌ„d perfite building without anie foundation Such is theyr miserable and blind braggyng How much more trulie should ye conclude that for as much as the Apostolike Churche not onely hath bene hytherto sound aÌ„d pure in doctrin but must also coÌ„tinue sound and pure vnto the world end and for as much as no Church hath coÌ„tinued so but only the church of Rome therfore he that maketh accompt of euerlasting life can not possibly attaine vnto it excepte he come to that Churche in which only the succession continueth by which it is easie to ascend vp euen to the chiefe of the Apostles For to S. Peter our Sauiour saieth Math. 1â— Thou art â—eter or a Rock and vpoÌ„ this Rocke I wil build â—y church aÌ„d the gates of hel shal not â—reuail against it â—uc 2â—â— Again