Hereticks called Cathari who dreamed of a state of perfection in this life so as Papists also do or else such factious ones among us which have sought the spoile and havock of the Church All giddy Sects among us crept We wish out of our Church were swept No name do we delight in more Then that at Antioch given of yore (f) Christians Acts 11.26 But now what Sects you Papists have I do but thy own witness crave Some Capucines some Franciscans And some be called Dominicans Some Jesuites some Seculars (b) The emulation and difference betwixt these two their Quodlibets do shew Some gray some black some white Friars And that your store may not be spent New Locusts still from Hell are sent (c) Rev. 9.3 Those Locusts do well represent the Popes Clergie they were bred of the smoak of the pit so are these of Heresie Ignorance and Superstition they destroy the fruits of the earth so these spoile the Church Thou saist thou would the Church find out So that I see thou art in doubt And so indeed Uncertainty Is still the fruit of Popery Popish Rime Catholick IN your Bible I have read The Church must through the world be spread For Christ he his Apostles sent With Power and Commandement That to all Nations they should go To Preach and to Baptize also Who hath done this to know I wish For that is sure the Church of Christ (d) I hope thou wilt not say that Rome hath done this the charge was given and undertaken before Rome was converted And for example let me know And if thou canst I pray thee show What Church did take in hand The first conversion of this Land (e) The Apostles Church for ought you can prove to the contrary And all other Countries every where Throughout the world far and near (f) Who but a Papist would dare to say this If this were not the Church of Rome Then will I be converted soon (g) You build your faith upon a very sure ground Saint Paul in his Epistle saith (h) Did Paul say that Rome shall never deny the Faith The Romans had the Catholick Faith Saying it was renowned Spoken of or published Through the world over all Catholick Universal And if your Churches were even so (i) Our Church is a part of the Catholick Church disprove it if you can Then to your Churches I would go (k) You may come to our Churches the Pope giveth you leave so that you keep your hearts to him Protestants Answer Catholick IN our Bible thou hast read 'T is well in ours for yours is fled And lurketh in a tongue unus'd Whereby poor people are abus'd The Church is Catholick as you say And so say we but why †The reason why the Church is called Catholick I pray Because to it it were disgrace To limit it to time or place It ever was and so shall be Since Christ excluding no degree (l) Col. 3.11 Acts 10.34 35. It once was ty'd unto the Jews But now no place (m) Austine saith it is Catholick because spread over the world Ep. 170. and thereto agreeth the Scripture Acts 1.8 it doth refuse It is a very fond surmise Which you the Papist do devise To shut the Church within Romes wall And yet to call it general (n) Catholick and general are all one and therefore one of their own Councels saith The Roman Church is not the Universal Church but of the Universal Church Basil Con. sy 3. The very name which you pretend Whereby your Church you would defend To all which do the meaning know Doth quite your fancy overthrow You say the charge which Christ once gave The Romists well performed have But mark how thou thy self dost hurt And lay Romes honour in the dirt That charge (i) Viz. of preaching through the world was given first to them Which lived at Jerusalem (k) The Apostles Mat. 28. Acts 1. And thence the Gospel issued out (l) Acts 8.1 As Esay told (m) Isa 2.3 the world throughout By them the Nations turned were (n) We read in Histories as in Eusebius and others how the Apostles divided themselves into all the quarters of the world And thence of Christ Rome first did hear Yet now the place (o) Jerusalem which others call'd To Turkish Empire is enthrall'd So though't were true which is not so And never shall be prov'd I know That Rome to Christ the Nations brought Yet this your reason were stark nought But now perhaps Rome doth you 'l say Bring home the wanderers to the way Indeed the Spaniards loving Gold Have brought the Indians to your fold The Frogs from Euphrates came out (p) Euphrates was a great river running near the old Babylon in Chaldea and was the defence of the City Cyrus and Darius could never take the City until by policy they dryed up the River Now in a spiritual sense it doth signifie the honour wealth and authority of Rome which hath of latter years decayed excedingly and doth daily and the frogs mentioned in Apoc. 16.13 do well resemble the Jesuites who feeling Euphrates to dry up bestir themselves and are croaking like Frogs in every corner labouring to maintain the Popes Authority I mean the Jesuited Rout Do spread themselves in each countrey To draw men to disloyalty They counsel Subjects kill their Kings Stabbings they use and poysonings (q) Our Countrey and times afford store of examples to prove this Christ gave no such commandement When first he his Disciples sent Of this conversion if you boast Whereby poor souls Hell hath engrost I yeeld it you full willingly It well agrees with Popery To draw Disciples is no mark For so doth many a feigned Clark (r) 2 Pet. 2.1 2. Acts 20.30 The Church to truth which doth convert We do embrace with all our heart Thou sayst Romes Faith once over all The world was famous so saith Paul (ſ) Rom. 1.8 And Rome did first convert our Land And hereupon you greatly stand Romes faith indeed once bare the bell And so it did deserve it well But Rome's not now as heretofore That faithful Citie 's made a Whore (t) Isa 1.21 So it was said of Jerusalem which had more excellent particular promises then Rome can alledge any If new Rome now were as the old Then we with Romanists would hold If Rome become Christs enemy Then we from Babylon must flie (t) Apoc. 18.4 To say that Rome is therefore sound Because of old it was renownd It may a Papist satisfie But men of judgement it deny Paul never Rome did magnifie As he did those of Thessaly †See 1 Thess 1.3 4 5 6 7 8. Yet now that Church is clean defac't And there the Turk himself hath plac't The Asian Churches (x) Ephesus Smyrna Pergamus Thyatira Sardis Philadelphia Laodicea Apoc. 1.11 famous once Are turned to a heap of
stones The golden lights (y) Those seven Churches were represented by seven golden Candlesticks Apoc. 1.20 of Saint Johns age Are now become even Sathans cage Prove thou that Rome hath not declind From th' ancient Church by Pauls resind And then I 'le say thou hast done more Then ever Papist did before But for first turning of our Nation I trow thou nam'st it but for fashion For they that look in History Thereof can find no certainty Simon Zelotes as some say (z) Niceph. lib. 2. cap. 40. Did first Christs Gospel here display Even whilst that Emperour did reign By whom our Saviour Christ was slain (a) Gildas Lib. de victoria Aurelii Ambrosii Some say that he of Arimathy (b) Joseph who buried Christ In the year of grace sixty three From France by Philip (c) Philip the Apostle was sent over To us the faith for to discover (d) So saith Gildas also Hereto agreeth a learned man That ancient Clark Tertullian That by th' Apostles Britany Was turn'd to Christianity (e) Tertul. in his book against the Jewes amongst other places converted by the Apostles reckoneth divers parts of France and Britain So doth Origen Hom. 4. upon Ezechiel Pope Elutherius long agoe (f) About the year of Christ 180. As his Epistle plain did show (g) This Epistle hath been found out of the ancient Records of the Kings of England Unto King Lucius hither sent Ere Ethelbert was king of Kent (h) Which was about 600. years after Christ We hold the faith that then was taught But you the same do set at naught (i) Eleutherius referred King Lucius to the Scriptures clean against the Papists course now and called him Gods Vicar in his kingdom which title the Pope alone doth now challenge When Rome the Truth doth once forsake Then we of Rome our leaves must take If that our Church were Catholick To come to Church thou wouldst not stick If of the word thou knewst the sence Thou soon would'st leave that fond pretence Our Church that truth doth firm embrace Which all those hold in every place Who leaving mens traditions clean Upon the Scriptures onely lean (k) That is truly Catholick which every where alwayes and by all viz. true Christians is believed Vincen. cont Haer. c. 3. Let Papists prove that the word Catholick being taken in that sence ours is not a Catholick Church Popish Rime Prophets SO saith the Prophet Malachy There should be offered far and nigh A clean Oblation or Sacrifice (l) When you read Altar and Sacrifice you think streight that makes for Mass not knowing or not seeming to know the language of the Scripture From place where now the Sun doth rise To the going down of the same And what is that I pray thee name If it be not the holy Mass I will be a Protestant as I was (m) If thou hadst been of us thou wouldst have continued with us 1 John 2.19 In the eighteenth Psalm I found The whole world should hear their sound (n) Namely of the Apostles and their Doctrine prove our Doctrine to disagree with theirs And if this mark you do not want Presently I will recant Protestants Answer Prophets THou cit'st a text of Malachy (o) Mal. 1.11 Hoping to prove thy Mass thereby Alas the reason is but small And helps that Idol not at all In it God threatneth the Jews †The opening of the place of Malachy Who their great priviledge did abuse And thought the Lord was tied to them And unto their Jerusalem The Prophet tells that God elsewhere Will find out those which shall him fear And in an order without blame Shall call upon his holy Name Speaking to their capacity The Legal tearms he doth apply (p) So Joel 2.28 The holy Ghost foretelling the Spiritual enlightning which the people shall have under Christ doth deliver it under the names of Visions and Dreams which notwithstanding were not ordinary in the times of the Gospel And calls our Gospel like Service A pure and spotless (q) Pure in Christ being accepted of God through him 1 Pet. 2.5 Sacrifice What ground is here then for the Mass It still remaineth as it was A gross device defaming Christ Who is our true and onely Priest (r) See more of this hereafter in speaking more directly of the Mass The speech of David of the Skies (Å¿) Psal 19.3 But according to their account Psal 18. Into the Apostles Paul applies (t) Rom. 10.18 And saith their sound went far and near As in the stories doth appear Tell me I pray what good to you This place you have alledg'd can do It maketh nought for Popery Or for your idle trumpery Indeed the infamous Fame is spread Of Antichrist your hideous head And all God's Children him do see The man of sin (r) 2 Thes 2.3 alone to be Th' Apostles Faith was far disperst And here in England was rehearst â—ith then our Doctrine is the same â—o it belongs part of their fame Popish Rime Continuance THis is another mark most sure The Faith of Christ must still endure †Christs Faith must endure therefore Rome is the true Church A hot argument as though the Christian Faith could endure no where but at Rome According as our Saviour said When for Saint Peter he had pray'd Simon thy faith shall never fail The gates of Hell shall not prevail †True the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church of Christ but Christ in despight of the Devil will have a Church upon earth what makes this for Rome The holy Ghost your comforter Shall remain with you for ever And I my self your surest friend Will be with you unto the end Saint Paul hath the like speech There shall be alwayes men to preach Apostles (p) Some say they are Apostles and are not Rev. 2.2 Doctors and the like In the Church Catholick If this be not the Church of Rome (q) Because you say it we are bound to believe it Then will I be converted soon Protestants Answer Continuance YOu say Christs faith must still endure I yield that nothing is more sure And alwayes God a Church will have Though thereat Satan rage and rave (Å¿) Mat. 16.18 And that is the uttermost which can be collected out of that place It glads my heart that Christ hath praid Thereby I know my Faith is staid (t) Luke 22.32 Christs prayer there belongs to all believers as well as to Saint Peter John 17.20 The comfort of Gods holy Sp'rit Is each good Christians sole delight This proves there still a Church shall be And herein thou and I agree To prove the Church tied to one Sea Requireth yet a better Plea The Faith of Christ may still abide Though Rome should into Tibur slide Gods Spirit is free and is not bound (u) John 3.8 Within the lists of Romish ground
When thou canst prove by holy writ Christs Faith to Rome by charter knit Then shall thy tale some credit find Where now it turneth all to wind But yet continuance is a Note Of Gods true Church and Paul hath wroâ—… Ephes 4.11 c. That there should still some teachers be In some we this fulfilled see I say continuance is no sign To prove a Church to be divine We may not think each Doctrine sure Which doth for many years endure (x) It is true that the truth shall continue but yet it holds not backward that whatsoever continueth is Truth The Devil is a lyar from the beginning Must not the tares be let to grow Till it be time the corn to mow (y) Mat. 13.10 And Antichrist shall long time stay Even till the very Judgment day (z) 2 Thes 2.8 The Arrian heresie years did stand Two hundred more than one thousand (a) Yea and it was so generally received that it was said the whole world was become an Arrian Hierom. dialog contra Luciferianos And so since Mahomet first was seen A thousand years have numbred been Romes name endures but Rome is chang'd And hath from Christ it self estrang'd Quit thou Rome from Apostacy Or name not Perpetuity Pauls words do prove (b) Ephes 4.11 c. that certainly The Church shall have a Ministry And that there shall be some to feed The Flock of Christ at ev'ry need But that these Pastors here or there Shall alwayes fit in beauty clear This fond conceit not one more word The holy Scripture doth afford Indeed in Rome there divers be That bear the name of Prelacie Better we Pilates may them call Seeking the Churches Funeral You call your Pope a Shepheard great But where is his Spiritual meat I do not hear that he doth preach That would his greatness much impeach Such are his carnal Cardinals Or rather bloody Canibals (c) The People that live upon mans flesh They eat the fat and skin the Flock And live upon the Churches stock An idle sign a Shepheards Crook In hand they bear (d) The Pastoral staff made in fashion of a Shepheards crook but cannot brook To preach the Word a Pastors grace That duty fits not their high place The key of knowledge they withdraw (e) Luke 11.52 And from Gods people steal (f) Jerem. 23.30 Gods Law And mens devices (g) They teach Traditions to be equally reverenced as the Scriptures Conc. Trid. ses 4. dec and Lidanus calleth them the foundation of Faith Panopl lib. 5. cap. 2. on them thrust Making them unto fancies trust These are Romes Pastors woful sheep Which left are to the Wolves to keep Thou Shepheard great and Bishop chief (h) 1 Pet. 2.25 4.5 Come quickly (i) Rev. 22.20 quell this Romish thief Papists Rime Visible ANother mark there is most clear The Church of God must stil appear As a City on a hill (k) Some wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction 2 Pet. 3.16 Take heed Seen and continue still As a light on a Candlestick So is the Church Catholick Our Saviour saith if one offend And will not be rul'd by his friend Tell all the Church without delay (l) Would you have us go to Rome with every complaint It seemeth so for you tie the Church to that Sea And if he will not then obey Do thou esteem such a man An Heathen or a Publican Is not that the Church wherein we see Two hundred Bishops thirty three To have succeeded each other Since the time of Saint Peter (m) You must first prove that Saint Peter was Bishop of Rome Shew me this mark in you (n) Thou thy self sayst there have been successively 63. Bishops in England since Peter then either ours is the true Church or else succession of Bishops is no sure mark And I will say your faith is true If this be not in the faith of Rome Then will I be converted soon Protestants Answer Visible THou tell'st a tale incredible How that God's Church is visible And by the Bishops Catalogue Wouldst prove the Romish Synagogue The errors here together lapt By which the simple are entrapt All which your feigned Church doth hold I mean in order to unfold The Catholick Church defin'd aright Cannot be subject to our sight It is th' Elected company (o) 1 Pet. 2.9 And Christ his chosen Family (p) Ephes 3.15 Of this one part in Heaven lives (q) Called the Church Triumphant The other here with Satan strives (r) Tearmed the Church Militant The part above you 'l not deny With mortal eyes none can descry The same is true of that below It is unseen by us also How with mine eyes I might discern And see th Elect fain would I learn Upon their persons we may look Whose names are written in Gods Book (Å¿) The Book of Life Phil. 4.3 But as for their Spiritual being It is a thing doth pass our seeing Parts of Christs Church you Papists make Even those whom God will quite forsake (p) So doth Bellarmine lib. 3. de Eccles cap. 7. and the Rhemists in their Annotations upon John 15.1 Which if the matter be well scand Cannot with any Scripture stand Of the true Church Christ is the head (q) Ephes 1.22 In him can be no member dead (r) They are called living stones 1 Pet. 2.3 His Church a Garden (Å¿) Cant. 4.12 closed well In which no Reprobates can dwell (t) So August applieth the place Contra Cres Gram. lib. 2. cap. 26. and Gregory the great who was a Bishop of Rome in his Commentary upon that place Charitatis vallo circumquaque munitur ne intra numerum electorum reprobus aliquis ingreciatur So that if fitly we will speak The ground you lay is very weak In calling it a mark most clear That Gods true Church must still appear Of Churches nam'd in several In Cities or else National We yeeld sometime they may be seen Though sometime they are darkned clean Sometime the Moon with chearful light Shines in the height of Heaven bright (u) Aug. useth that similitude Epist 48 and Epist 80. and Ambrose Hex 4. C. 8. Ecclesia sicut luna defectus habet ortus frequentes Sometimes with clouds 't is overspred And in the Wane clean vanished So is the Church in safety still Although not alway visible Sometimes it sits in glory great Sometime it hath no certain seat The Woman which to Desart fled From Satans rage to hide her head * Apoc. 12.6 So much also the Rhemists upon that place do acknowledge By all the learnedst full consent The Church on earth doth represent The famous Church of Israel Where God did promise still to dwell (x) Psal 132.14 Was drown'd so in Idolatry And superstitious slavery That all true worship being gone Elias thought himself alone (y) 1 Kings 19.10 And
Fair-Play on both sides OR The surest way to HEAVEN DISCOVERED IN A DISPUTE BETWEEN A Roman-Catholick AND A PROTESTANT LONDON Printed for Richard Head at the Heart and Bible in Little-Brittain 1666. To my much esteemed Friend Mr. J. L. YOU will wonder I am sure considering my profession to see me become a Poet. And indeed I do almost marvel at my self knowing my self to want the two principal furtherances of Poetry the one is Natures instinct (a) They say Poeta noscitur If a man be not as it were a Poet born he shall never prove excellent in that faculty which God in his holy providence hath denyed me the other is A certain retired freedom from all such businesses which may breed destraction (b) Carmina secessum scribentis otia quae unt Ovid. de Trist which my publick calling besides private encomberances will not afford me Yet notwithstanding upon this present occasion I have even forced my self to this straitâ—r course of verse-making though I know that for my own ease having to deal in such a distempered and unruly subject that less limited and freer kind of discourse which Prose alloweth had been more convenient because the Rules of Cadence number to which our English Poetry specially is confined do many times so streighten an unaccustomed Practitioner that he is in hazard either of obscuring the sence which in a matter of this nature were something dangerous or of marring the Verse which to the apprehension of every common conceit were very ridiculous But howsoever I have erred in the carriage of this Verse I hope to you and to others whose favour either because of their judgement or their honesty I desire this shall excuse me that meeting with our common Adversary who appeareth sometime in shape of a Statesman debating of Titles and common-wealth affairs (c) Witness the Quodlibets c. sometime as a Petitioner to the King and Parliament (d) At the Kings first coming and now since the Parliament sometime as a plausible Perswader (e) Bâ—istows Motives and Books of that nature sometime as a restorer of the holy Text to the native purity thereof (f) Rhem. Test Grego Martin sometime as a man of a very tender conscience giving reasons why he cannot come to our Assemblies (g) Howlet sometime as a Raylor at our Government and an approver of our open enemies (h) The ward-word Quo teneam vultus mutantem Proted nodo that I say meeting with this time-serving Proteus in the fashion of a Rimer or Balladins and crept in as the manner of false Brethren 1 is (i) Galat. 2.4 Similes habet labra lactucas into â—oth the haâ—… and 〈…〉 simple seduced I have endeavoured to make 〈…〉 like the Lips as the Proverb is 〈…〉 sing to 〈◊〉 I am sure without wilful forsaking the plain truth of God 〈…〉 I shall 〈…〉 The service it 〈…〉 here 〈…〉 by 〈…〉 (k) He confeseth he 〈…〉 Protestant is 〈…〉 though 〈◊〉 say the truth it 〈…〉 through 〈…〉 yet set forth after any good or 〈…〉 but it is even 〈…〉 of certain 〈…〉 egations as to there the â—avings and scraps of 〈◊〉 other 〈…〉 order or proof 〈…〉 word of 〈…〉 than Orâ— Belike the 〈…〉 rough for those for whom it was provided as 〈◊〉 it is for those which turn their ears from the Truth and are given unto fables (l) 2 Tim. 4.4 and by some upon my knowledge to whom 〈◊〉 me God hath sent strong delusions that they should believe 〈◊〉 (m) â— Theâ— 2.11 it is highly magnified as a special preservative against supposed Heresie and as a well-framed Sconce which none of us all is able to overthrow In regard whereof knowing my self 〈…〉 others to contend earnestly for the maintainance 〈…〉 (n) Iude. 3. â—2 1â— I have undertaken this which you here see For my desire and true intent therein it is best known to him which seeth in 〈◊〉 (o) Maâ— â— and in his due time will make the counsels of all hearts manifest (p) 1 Cor. 4. â— Touching the thing it self how it is and how well it is I submit it to the sensure of the godly-wise praying them that with their favourable if not allowance yet at least connivance it may pass to the use of those to whom it is intended And among others I have directed it especially to you in part of recompence for a great deal of kindness intreating you to entertain 〈◊〉 with the like measure of Love wherein it is offered And so â—…ching God to fill you with the fruits of Righteousness (q) Phil. 1.11 I command you to his grace in Christ Jesus Your loving Friend SAM HIERON Modbury Aug. 20. 1604. FAIR PLAY Or a Dispute between a PROTESTANT and a ROMAN-CATHOLICK Wherein the true Religion is made clear to the meanest capacity Roman Catholick's Preface I Pray thee Protestant bear with me (a) Indeed a man had need to be very patient that meaneth to hear thee To ask thee Questions two or three And if an answer thou canst make More of thy counsel I will take (b) Yet I fear that though thou wert brayed in a Mortar with a Pestel among Wheat thy foolishness will not depart from thee Prov. 27.22 Many sundry Sects appear Now in the world far and near The Calvinist the Protestant The Zwinglian the Puritant The Brownest and the Family of Love And many more which I can prove And the Roman Faith truly Which you call Papistry And every one confess Jesu Saying that their Faith is true But amongst these tell me how The Truth from feigned lies to know All these in very deed Reherse all Articles in the Creed And every one of them saith That theirs is the Catholick Faith But this it is that I do seek (c) I believe thou art one of those which are ever learning and never come to the knowledge of the Truth 2 Tim. 3.7 Take the Lanthorn which David used and thou shalt soon find the true Church Psal 119.105 To know the Church Catholick The Communion or Company Of holy men in Unity Protestants Answer His Preface I May not Papist suffer thee Because thy Questions idle be And if my Counsel thou wilt take Then hear the answer I will make Thou tell'st of Sects that do appear And seem'st the truth glad to inquire But ev'n in this I malice smell And see thy spiteful meaning well When thou these divers Sects dost name Thou wouldst thereby our Church defame (d) I have reason so to think because the multitude of supposed Sects amongst us is a common imputation See Brist Motives pag. 10. And make fools think that we them lov'd When as with us th' are not approv'd We do not hang on Clavins sleeve Nor yet on Zwinglius we believe And Puritans we do desie If right the name you do apply (e) Viz. If either by that name are understood those ancient