Selected quad for the lemma: faith_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
faith_n	catholic_n	church_n	visible_a	4,689	5	9.3932	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41583	Gospel-baptism or, plain proof, that the mode of dipping, plunging or immersion, now commonly used by the people called Anabaptists; is according to the primitive institution in a letter to Mr. Samuel Young. Occasioned by his sharp reflections in contempt of that way, and the defenders thereof in a small book, entituled, A second and last New-Years-Gift, &c. With some notes concering the true subject. By a lover of truth.	Minge, Thomas.	1700 (1700)	Wing G1312A; Wing M2190A; ESTC R221577	28,906	73

ipsum bapti●●ndi verbum mergere significat mergendi ●●um veteri Ecclesiae observatum fuisse constat English thus But whether he that is bapti●●d may be dipt all over or wholly plunged ●●d that thrice or once or whether Water being poured on he be sprinkled only it matters ●●ry little but that ought to be left free to 〈◊〉 Churches according to the diversity of Re●●ns or Countries Although also the Word it self of Bap●●ing signifies to Dip and it is manifest ●●at the Rite of Dipping hath been ob●●ved by the Ancient Church The for●●er Period is Sua fert Opinio his Opinion or Think so and is the Matter in ●●spute The latter his positive Assertion 〈◊〉 the Primitive Mode of Baptism according to our Saviour's Institution Mat. 28. 〈◊〉 Go ye therefore and teach all Nations ●●tizing them c. which ought to take ●●ace with the Exclusion of all other Modes And his true Assertion of the Primitive Practice and Example and I should say Command leaves no room for his Opinion of Indifferency in the Matter Especially we may judge so since we find him upon solid Grounds employing his worthy and in many things unerring Pen in the use of that so much decry'd contemn'd and ridicul'd by your self recounted and so accounted in your Second New-years-Gift Pag. 22. way of arguing used by the Anabaptists See Calvin's Inst cap. 17. fol. 509. of the Lord Supper § 50. Tertio cur de pane simpliciter dixit ut ederent de calice ut omnes biberent Acsi Satanae calliditati ex destinat● occurrere voluisset Imò qua id fiducia hod● usurpant ut plebeculae symbolum Christi Corpor● distribuant si nullum habent Domini vel Man datum vel Exemplum Why did our Lord s● plainly that they should eat of the Bread and th●● they should all drink of the Cup As if it ha● been his Pleasure and Design to meet with and oppose the Subtilty of Satan Yea with what confidence at this day do they usurp th●● thing that they should distribute to the poor people the Sign of Christ's Body if they have neither th● Lord's Precept nor Example Thus far Calvin● And this occasioned by their cutting the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper shorter or taking away what they thought was superfluous in the Institution administring the Sacrament in one kind only to wit the Bread and with-holding the Cup from the People ●rguing that the Bread was the Body of Christ and therefore that the Blood must ●eeds be there by way of Concomitan●y So that receiving one they received ●oth Calven tells them There 's no Pre●ept nor Example for this The Argument was good and of like weight is it against those who add to or diminish from ●e other institution of Baptism either as 〈◊〉 Matter Manner or Subject In your opinion a little Water to sprinkle may ●rve to represent all the things signified by Baptism to wit the word it self Dip●ng which is clearly another thing Washing Death Burial Resurrection ●tting on of Christ overwhelmed with ●flictions a being filled with the Spirit c. ●ll which are plentiful expressions and significations That I may speak after Calvin Our Saviour did as it were of set purpose ob●●ate the subtilty of Satan in the error of ●rinkling instead of Baptism in being ●●mself an example of going down into the River where was plenty of Water therein he was Baptized or Dipt whereby was fully represented all things without diminution But perhaps you may say Quo● sum haec To what end is all this Have w●● not had enough of this already Perhap● you have But since I have gone thus fa● and farther then I thought for at first 〈◊〉 for a Hundred in for a Thousand I a●● minded to run the hazard of the best pa●● of my Stock therefore beg your patience and entreat you to get your bags ready f●● in a little time Deo volente I will pay you all Now it will be convenient to walk ba●● and over-hall part of the Thread already spun to see whether I can mend it L●● me say something among the rest of the Quality of the Subject to be baptized I must to the Catechism for I find 〈◊〉 least that he must be a Catecheumen S●● Berchetus before By Baptism we do 〈◊〉 it were enter into the Church T●● Church of Christ is built up of live● Stones upon the Living Stone and Ro●● Christ 1 Peter 2.4 5. The Life o●● Christian is Faith the just shall live by 〈◊〉 Faith Hab. 2.4 John 17.3 This 〈◊〉 Life Eternal that they might know thee 〈◊〉 only true God and Jesus Christ whom th● hast sent This knowledge of God a● and Christ is by faith only what is not 〈◊〉 Faith is sin All Acts of Religious w●●ship ought to be in Faith which is the ●rue knowledge of God in Christ Baptism ●s a part of Religious Worship therefore 〈◊〉 ought to be performed with Faith by ●he Subject There is Confession with the Mouth Rom. 10.9 If thou shalt confess with by Mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in ●●●e heart that God hath raised him from the ●ead thou shalt be saved Faith which is ●er joyned with repentance and confession qualifies for Baptism and Baptism ●●r a Regular admission to Communion at ●he Lords Table in a True Regular Vi●ble Church It is true also that Believers and Elect Children do first belong to ●he Invisible Catholick Church before ●ea and if they should never be joyned 〈◊〉 a Visible Church But that is not our ●usiness to discourse of our business is ●ith a Visible Church which admits of ●one but such as make an Audible and ●isible Profession of Faith which in Chari●y may be judged Real For man knoweth ●t the heart The next in the Catechism 〈◊〉 For it is Testified to us that God is willing 〈◊〉 place us who otherwise are Strangers with ●●ose of his own house Testified to us Can this be meant to a ●abe or babes that have Eyes and see not ●ars but hear not neither do they understand No it cannot be therefore the proper Subject must be a Believer Young● or Older who otherwise are Strange● that is being without Faith for th● are we Strangers to the Common-wealth of Israel That God is willing to place 〈◊〉 with those of his own House which is 〈◊〉 Church We are to know God's will th●● before our Admission or Orderly Reception into his Visible Church for of the Invisi●● in respect of Election we were Member before In short all the Representations● Baptism that can be reckoned up are no 〈◊〉 presentations to a Babe that hath no Understanding of Things done or said Neither indeed is any thing in a Catechi●● significant but to such who have a com●●tent Understanding and so some ground 〈◊〉 Hope that as they understand Things G●● will work Faith to believe them The●●fore since no Man can find out a reason 〈◊〉 cause in the Creature why a Creature

3.6 They were baptized confessing their Sins Secondly That Salvation dependeth o● Faith not of Baptism it may appear John 5.24 He that believeth is passed from death to life he that believeth shall be saved● and it followeth in this place h● that will not believe shall be damned He saith not he that will not be baptized Baptism is joined notwithstanding to Belief that no Man should neglect o● despise the Ordinance of God Willet Symptis Papismi pag. 463. Acts 10.47 The Holy Ghost went before and then Baptism followed the thing signified appeared first and then th● Sign or Seal was added Can any forbid water saith St. Peter that these should m● be baptized which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we Willet quotes Augustine Per fidem renascimur in baptismate By Faith we are bon● again in baptism It is then the proper Act o● Faith to regenerate us not of Baptism● the Use and End whereof is to strengthen and increase our Faith If so Faith must be before Baptism or how can it be a● Instrument to increase it Willet pag. 492. That Infants neither have Faith in themselves nor yet are profited or furthered to their Salvation by the Faith of others it is thus proved 1. St. Paul saith Faith cometh by Hearing and Hearing by the Word of God Rom. 10.17 But Infants can neither hear nor understand the Word of God Ergo no Faith is wrought in them 2. There is no habitual or potential Faith that pleaseth God but the Justifying Faith is always actual working by love Gal. 5.6 Ergo Children have either no Faith or it must needs be an actual or working Faith 3. Infants are not justified nor relieved or helped forward towards their Salvation by the Faith of their Parents or God-fathers when they are baptized For the Scripture saith The just shall live by Faith Rom. 1.17 that is by his own Faith not the Faith of another before God they are no more helped by the Confession of anothers Mouth than by the Belief of anothers Heart Wherefore it is not either the Faith of the Parents or the Confession of the Witnesses that supplieth the lack of both in Infants Vrsinus pag. 414. Teach all c. baptizing them that is all who by your doctrine come unto me and are made my Disciples The Order here is to be noted and observed He willeth first that they be taught and after that they be baptized For he speaketh of Men of Years which should be converted unto the Faith and Gospel of Christ Wherefore he will not have the Sacraments to be dumb but signifyeth that the Word ought to go before and then the Sacraments to follow Very true thus far This is Gospel But I will give something more of his own Opinion and what is also in common with other Pedobaptists which is this And among them are numbred the Infants also of such as come unto Christ or are Christ's Disciples For their Infants also are Disciples as being born in the School of Christ For to be born in the Church serveth to the Infants instead of their Profession There 's his ipse dixit for that and not one Word o● God for it But I doubt not but that he has a Friend to stand by him in it See him further The Use of the Sacrament without Faith doth not save therefore with Faith it doth save The want of the Sacrament doth not condemn Yet so as that want of the Sacrament be without contempt For not the want but the contempt of the Sacraments condemn as which cannot possibly be where Faith is This last Paragraph is sufficiently witnessed to by Calvin and other Authors See Calvin concerning Infants in Covenant Shewing that their Salvation is undoubted and independant of Baptism or any other Helps or Accessions if it should happen that they pass out of this Life antequam aqua mergi datum fuerit before they are baptized or dipt Instit folio 471. Now to come close to the Business it is certain that the Spiritual Part of the Promise made to Abraham was to his Spiritual Seed He spake not of Seeds as of many but of one that is Christ and if you are Christs then are you Abrahams seed and heirs according to promise What is plainer to exclude a Carnal Seed from all pretences to spiritual Priviledges The promises are to you and to your seed and to as many as the Lord shall call that is such as shall have an Essectual Call for it must be such as obey the Call Otherwise the unbelieving Jews to whom this was preached must really be Heirs and certainly possess the Kingdom of Heaven For such as are in the Everlasting Covenant shall certainly never perish but inherit Everlasting Life for whom God loves he loves to the End We are all by Nature Children of Wrath we are Children of God no other way then by Faith in Christ Jesus But whether go I Is this true Doctrine Is there not a mistake Pray what becomes of Infants who have not Faith neither capable of it Must these be lost God forbid who durst say it nay who durst think it But we are speaking of Church-members Pray what Church Is it a Visible Church or the Invisible Church of all God's Elect that Infants are born Members of If by their Birth into the World they have an Entrance into and an Existence in this invisible Church then are they certainly in the Everlasting Covenant which shall never be broken and all the Powers of Darkness shall never prevail against them to exclude them and if they dye in Infancy they are certainly safe If they live to be adult they shall certainly be made partakers of the Graces of the Covenant God will write his Law in their Hearts they shall have Faith God will be to them a God and they shall be to him a People and they will conform to his revealed Will. If they are born in and so are Members of a Visible Church I think I need not question but that you mean a Church of Christ and if so then the Question is not to be Vbi Where for it must be where the Child is born But the Question must be How an Enquirer may know that to be a Church of Christ where the Child is born This is somewhat wild If it be said the Parent is a Church-member and so being in the Church the Child coming into the World at the same time falls into the Churches Lap and is also a Church-member and under the Churches care even before Baptism and consequently must be baptized So much for the Infants Now for the Adult How can it be said that they are Members of a Church visible I mean according to the former desinition till they have made a profession of Faith and have had a formal Admission and that by Baptism If you say they are Members of the Invisible Church and so have a Right to Baptism No Person that I know of denies

it But who knows which do and which do not belong to the Invisible Church It is the Searcher of Hearts God alone that knows who are his Man can make Judgment of no more than Profession and Practice which fall under the Observation of the Senses Can they be said to be of and not of a visible Church at the same time In your New-Years-Gift pag. 22. your words are these Brethren be sober Are not all that are added to the Church to be baptized Are no Infants added to the Church are they lost were they not once added to the Church Page 24. of ditto Again you say For my part I have been long of the Opinion Baptism is not properly an initiating Ordinance whether of Infants or Adult they are no● baptized and so made Church-members but they are Church-members and so baptized Coronation doth not make a King but declare him so c. Acts 2.38 And Peter said unto them Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the Remission of Sins c. v. 39. For the promise is unto you and to your Children and to all that are afar off even as many as the Lord our God shall call v. 41. Then they that gladly received his Word were baptized and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand Souls And they continued stedfastly in the Apostles Doctrine and Fellowship and breaking of Bread and in Prayers no Infants could be of this number And fear came upon every Soul Infants know nothing therefore can fear nothing And all that believed were together c. 46 47. And they continued daily with one accord in the Temple and breaking bread from house to house did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart Praising God and having favour with all people and the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved None of the Characters of these People which were added to the Church agree with Infants And was it not next to a Miracle if none of these three Thousand had an Infant or young Child and would it not be a greater wonder if they so had that they did not make hast to baptize such Child lest it should go out of the World before it was made a Christian by Baptism And if it had been so baptized is it not as great a Wonder that we have no Record of any such thing especially if it were of that weight for Infants to be baptized as some People esteem and affirm Certainly it is more probable that some of these three Thousand had Infants than that there were Infants baptized in the two or three Families whereof it is said They believed with all their House and that they rejoiced with all their House For Infants cannot properly be said to do either But why should we expect a Record of that for which there was no Prescript or Command by the great Law-giver which if it had been his Will certainly he would have been as plain and positive as the Lord was in the Command to Abraham in the Covenant of Circumcision But the Gospel is more spiritual is a New Covenant the Right of Gospel Ordinances comes in by Faith and the Pedobaptists themselves as I have shown acknowledge the Insignificancy of Infants baptism unless they confirm it by their own Faith when they are grown up You your self are pleased to use probable Arguments you see here I have imitated you You see those who were added to the Church they were such as were baptized Are no Infants added to the Church visible No none without a Profession and Profession they are not capable of because they have not Faith as I have shewed out of your own Writers Are they lost No ne'er the more nor sooner for want of Baptism as I have made it appear out of your own Writers Calvin Vrsinus c. First It is Contempt and not the wan● of the Sacrament doth condemn Vrsinus c. Now Children cannot contemn for they know nothing of the Matter Secondly The Parents who are Godly and are for Believers Baptism they contemn not Baptism by retaining their Infants from it but so retain them because their Consciences tell them that it would be a profaning of the Sacred Ordinance by preferring an improper and unqualified Subject to it And if they should so do it would be their Sin If the Parents sin therein I mean by retaining the Children from Baptism the Child will not suffer for their Parents sin Well say you Were not Infants once added to the Church I answer Yes To the Jewish Church-National according to your sense if I mistake not as soon as they were born but had not the Seal of the Church-Covenant till eight Days after But what is that to the Gospel-Church state The Church state now is not National but Congregational as many as God shall call into the Houshold of Faith as hath been sufficiently demonstrated already It is not buying with Money will give a Right to Baptism Excluding Infants from Baptism excludeth them not from Salvation as hath been said before I must have one probable Argument more about the three thousand Is it likely that among these there was not one Woman when commonly they are the more plentiful Sex If there was one certainly she must be a Communicant for they brake Bread from House to House We read of Womens believing and being baptized and Believers were commanded to observe all things that were delivered unto them Now if you can prove that any Infants believed then you may find out another probable Argument on your part But let that pass we have enough without far fetched Things You say Infants are Church-members and so baptized Coronation doth not make a King but declare him so But Kings have become so by God's choice immediately whereof the Prophets have given Testimony others mediately by Men others so by Conquest So others Hereditary and are so by some standing Law and all these precede Coronation and by all these ways God sets up Kings S● when God by his Law qualifies a Person and makes him a spiritual King by giving him Faith and writing his Law in his Heart making him his child then is baptism as a Crown to declare him such in the Church of God A Word to your Comparison of the Table it looks a Kitchin one for such Tables are wont to be wash'd Pag. 24. Suppose you had a Table equally dirty every where and your Maid should pour Water on and that but a little at one end or if it were a round Table and so had no end only a little on one part and there wash'd and no further would you then say that Table was wash'd Even such is your Parties Practice If she had washed all over she had done the Business and in doing that there must have been not only Inspersion or Aspersion but Frication and Abstersion Thus you see for one Trifle I but in another

Pray condemn me not for my presuming Ingratitude in that I so saucily take part of your New-Year-Gift and throw it ●n your Face For it is to a good End only to act the part of an Occulist to make you rub your Eyes that you may the better ●e the Vanity of your own admired Arguments in opposition to the solid Judgment ●f the primitive Christians the very Nature ●nd Native Property of Languages the Aseveration of the most Pious and Learned who would not lye for God nor talk deceitfully in a cause that they thought for him and had so much Candor and Integrity that they would acknowledge the Truth ●f the Thing though it made most against them in the management of a Cause with their strenuous and utmost Skill Dexterity and Wit Nay you have opposed two Councils mentioned by Perkins a Pious and Reverend Divine To stick by your Arguments against Dipping is as absurd and ridiculous as to say there is no such place as China or the East or West Indies Whe● things are Evident in themselves and wherein all Parties are agreed as concerning Womens Communion at the Lord's Table they having the same Essential part that gives a right to wit Faith and Admission by Baptism into the visible Church● There need no Dependance upon the Rule of Grammar And for a Man that he must bear Rule in his own House it is Evident in its own Nature Can there be as Ordinance and no Coherence of the Quality of the Subject that is to Obey Th● very Word Ordinance denotes in th● Institution a Subject capable of Obedience and to all right Obedience there must be Faith unless it were otherwise declared in the Institution The Stones i● the Spiritual Building ought to be Living Stones You were pleased to say That Dipping with Water was Nonsense I say That to say a Man that is distracted is out of his Wits is also Nonsense fo● the proper Meaning is that his Wits are out of him But the Phrase hath obtained so much Reputation by Custom and runs so smooth that I should be accounted little other than delirious if I should attempt to alter the Vulgar and Smooth and bring in the Rugged and Harsh sounded Expression The Wits are out of the Man And indeed there is need of no Alteration since every one understands the Meaning to be good Sense Well I have proved the manner of Baptism to be by dipping in Water I beseech you let it pass smooth by the Name or Phrase Baptizing with Water since several ways there are and have been shewed Reasons for it There is one Argument comes into my Mind that is much used by your Party The Foederal Holiness of Children 1 Cor. 7.14 The unbelieving Husband is sanctified by the Wife and the unbelieving Wife is sanctified by the Husband else were your Children unclean but now are they holy If this Holiness were a Fruit of special Grace and of the Everlasting Covenant or a Sanctification in the Womb such as John's was it would certainly end in Glorification and the Way leading to that end would be a Holy Life But common Experience hath found that the Life and Death of the Childrne of the Believer have many times appeared as bad as the Life and Death of the Children of the most profane And therefore the Holiness cannot as they come of their Parents be the Holiness of the Everlasting Covenant I tell you or rather all Men know what it is not by the Issue and Event I leave it to others to define what it is The Papists affirm That the Baptism if Children and Infants is grounded upon Tradition and not upon Scripture The Protestants answer It were very hard if we had no more certain Ground for the Baptizing of Infants than Tradition which is but a feeble Weapon to fight against Hereticks withal Willet's Synop. pag. 491. Then they produce Scriptures Gen. 17. 1 Cor. 7.14 c. as is usual and need no Repetition Dr. Stilling fleet late Bishop acknowledgeth in his Scripture proof i● Opposition to the Papists a necessity of a Profession of Faith in order to Baptism and so brings in a necessity of Sponsors and affirms that what they cannot do personally by themselves they do by their Sponsors In a Book Entituled Duplies of the Ministers and Professors of Aberdene to the Second Answers of some Reverend Brethren concerning the late Covenant Pag. 97. you have it thus Lastly Of the Stipulation of Godfathers in Baptism instanced by us in our Fifth Demand ye have spoken nothing particularly either in your First or Second Answers We have no Precept or Example of it in Holy Scripture Yea some of our Learned Divines affirm that it was instituted by Pope Higynus and ye will not deny that it hath been much abused in Popery How cometh it to pass then that this Ceremony is allowed and used by some of you We say some for we are informed that some of your Mind do not use it at all See Dr. Morton in his Defence of the Three Ceremonies pag. 24. See Pet. Martyr on the 6th Chapter of ●he Epistle to the Romans and Gerard in Loc. Theolog. Tom. 4. Here by the way Observe that the Doctors and Ministers of Aberdene as I no●ed Calvin did before did esteem the not having Precept or Example in Holy Scripture for Practice of a Thing an Argument of sufficient weight to perswade them against it and to reject it You may be pleased to observe the several Shifts that the Pedobaptists have been put to to support the Ungospel-like Practice of Sprinkling or Baptizing as it is called Infants First As to the Subject The Gospel-Church-member is expresly declared to be a Believer not a Word in the Scriptures of any other but such baptized That Infant-Baptism may be proved they have recourse to the Practice of Circumcision enjoyned to Abraham and his Seed though we read not of any Doctrine of Faith preached to any that were admitted to it They that were bought with Money by an Express Command from God were to be circumcised Infants say they were circumcised then and why not Children baptized now since it is evident God hath as much care of Infants now as he had then And yet generally confess'd that their Baptism signifies nothing in respect of their Estate before God helps them nothing without their personal Faith when they are grown up The Question then may be why they may not as well defer Baptism till they are capable of Faith and Profession for there will be no time lost all that time wherein they were not bettered by what they could do as Infants or Parents and Godfathers did or could ●o for them Circumcision did not belong ●o the Priest's Office the Parent usually circumcised Baptism belongs to the Gospel-Minister he that teacheth is to baptize Some say the Parents Faith gives a Right to Baptism Pray who can say 〈◊〉 though they may in Charity be thought ●o have had that they