Selected quad for the lemma: faith_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
faith_n	catholic_a	church_n	visible_a	7,591	5	9.5600	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14856	Catalogus protestantium, or, The Protestants kalender containing a suruiew of the Protestants religion long before Luthers daies, euen to the time of the Apostles, and in the primitiue church.	Webbe, George, 1581-1642.; Gee, John, 1596-1639.	1624 (1624)	STC 25160.7; ESTC S123319	58,161	115

Catalogue before recited and see what colour they haue to set vpon their false suggestion which they buzze into the eares of their proselites that our Religion was not heard of before Luthers time when we haue such a cloude of Witnesses of our side as already hath beene produced Their first cauill is against the smalnesse of the number Gene●ra●d Chr. lib. 4. Admit say they that there haue beene in the daies of old some that haue leaned to diuers of these hereticall propositions of the Protestants and haue opposed themselues against the doctrine of the Romish Church Brist prof●● in 〈◊〉 as there hath beene scarce any peece or Article of the Roman faith but by one or other first or last it hath beene called in question yet as Andrew said of the fiue Barly Loaues and two small Fishes which were to bee deuided among fiue thousand hungry people Ioh. 6.9 Iohn 6.9 What are these among so many so say they What are these few Bellarm. lib. 4. de Eccles c. 8. Rhem. in Act. 11 s● 4. this little handfull of Protestants in regard of whole Countries Kingdomes and Nations throughout all the world who haue embraced the Catholike faith of the Church of Rome and adhaered to that sea or how can so small a number make a visible Church To this we answer 1. That number or multitude is no true marke or note of a Church for if Truth should be measured by the opinion or practise of the multitude Then Iesabels Church should bee better then the Church of which Elias was King 18.19 for Baals Prophets were 450. fed at Iesabels Table when as Elias as farre as hee could see was left himselfe alone Then should the Pagan religion bee better then that in Israel which was but an handfull in regard of the rest of the world ●sal 76.1.2 Psal 147.19.20 Then should Turkisme bee better then the Christian religion for that at this day hath greater number that follow it then this And so the Turke should be better then the Pope Mahumetisme more to be commended then Poperie because the ones Dominion is larger in extent then the other and that hath more Proselites then this But our Blessed Sauiour himselfe preuenteth that obiection when he calleth his flocke Pufillum gregem A little flocke Luk. 12.13 Luk. 12.31 and againe telleth vs. Mat. 7.13 Math. 7.13 that wide is the gate and broad thei way that leadeth to destruction and many there bee which goe in thereat but straight is the gate and narrow the way which leadeth vnto life and few there bee that finde it 2. It is no wonder that in these times of persecution of the Church of Christ by the See of Rome the number of true professors was so small for these were the daies and times Reuel 12.5.6 When this woman fled into the wildernesse when the greatest part of the Christian world both small and great rich and poore Reuel 13.16 17. bond and free were compelled to receaue the marke of the Beast and no man could buy or sell saue hee that had the marke or the name of the beast or the number of his name By reason whereof the number of this faithfull flocke of Christ was much diminished and obscured which is the cause why the professors of our Religion in those times being driuen from place to place and persecuted by Antichristian tyrannie Their names the places of their abode and other circumstances whereby their memories should haue beene preserued could not so easily be made knowne vnto vs. 3. As the true Church may sometimes bee more secret and hidden yea reduced to a very small number as already hath beene declared so that number be it neuer so small that company be they neuer so few professing the Truth aright and hauing the right markes of the Church may be a true Church Where two or three saith our blessed Sauiour are gathered together in my name there am I in the middest of ●●em Mat. 18.20 Math. 18.20 Whereupon Tertullian inferreth Tertul. exhor● ad Castital Augustin Ennar in psal 2● Darand lib. 6. 72. v. 25. Where three are that sincerely professe the truth there is a Church And Augustin saith The Church sometimes was only in the house of Noah sometimes in Abrahams family only sometimes in Lot and his house And the Papists themselues doe acknowledge that at the time of our Sauiours Passion the true Faith remayned onely in the Virgin Mary 4. Neither haue I in the Catologue before recited set downe all that either liued or are recorded in the seuerall Ages aboue mentioned but onely a few in stead of many by which few it may bee easily gathered that there were many more of them for such Learned such eminent men when they shew foorth themselues could not want partakers howsoeuer the oppression and Tyrannie of the aduerse partie did keepe them vnder Neither are there so few who haue already beene named if wee rightly cast the account In some of these Centuries and halfe Centuries I confesse there appeare more in some lesse as the cloud of Popish ignorance or persecution did thicken or lessen as sometimes amounting to hundreds at other times to thousands as may appeare by that which already hath been alledged And this if wee had no more witnesses to produce were enough for answer vnto their demand who require vs to shew any that professed our Religion before the dayes of Martin Luther and to stop the mouthes of our Popish aduersaries who thus vauntingly insult ouer vs That they will not put the Protestants to proue that there were seauen thousand of their Sect before their new Elias Rhem. in Rom. 11.4 Luther began But let them proue say they that there were seauen or any one either then or before then in any Age that was in all points of his beliefe Obiect 2 And these last wordes of the Rhemists are a branch of another Obiection which the Papists frame against our former Catologue Gregor de Valent Com. theol com 3. d. 1. And that is this How can you prooue say they that those parties whom you claime to bee yours such as in the former Catalogue were mentioned held the same Religion which you now doe or if in some things they may seeme to accord with you yet that in all points they were of your beliefe To this I answer 1. That it is not requisite that to proue them to professe the same Religion together with vs wee must proue them in all points to haue beene of our Beliefe or that the least difference in opinion should make a difference in Religion for what Church euer was there wherein all the members thereof did fully consent in euery point without any shew of difference Surely not the Pope Catholique Church for doe all that professe themselues members of that Church agree in euery point professed and maintained by that Church Concil Trident. Wa●● Quod● What then meane

same Faith which wee professe by the Bohemians Waldenses c. alreadie hath beene made manifest But how long time is it I pray that the name Papist whereof of late they were ashamed and wherein they now so much glory was knowne or acknowledged in the world Act. 11.26 Optat. Mileuit lib. 2. cont Parm. or whence is it that leauing the auncient name of Christians they rather with the Donatists appropriate vnto themselues the name of Catholicks Doubtlesse howsoeuer they bragge and boast of Antiquity wee may apply that of Bildad vnto them They are but of yesterday Iob. 8.9 for how could a man know what it was to be a Papist or what was the body of Religion before the Councell of Trent had defined it Trent Councel concluded An. dom 1563. which was since Luthers time Let them shew where their Papall Supremacie was before the time of Pope Goodface the third or their Latine Seruice before the yere 680. Platina or their Romish Masse before Adrian the 1. Anno 780. Iacob de Vorag in vit Gregor Exposit Rom. ord ann 1215 1222. ex Act. Rom. Pontif. 1414. or their Agnus Dei before Pope Sergius an 700. or their Transubstantiation before the Councell of Lateran or their eleuation and adoration of the Sacrament before the time of Honorius the third or their eceiuing of the Communion in one kinde onely and the absolute forbidding of the contrary before the Councell of Constance Iohan. Scot. lib. 4. dist 17. artic 3. or their absolute necessity of Auricular Confession before Innocent the third Idem ibid. in his Councell of Lateran or the prohibition of Marriage to the Clergie before the same time I might instance in many other points of Poperie which howsoeuer they may carrie some shew and shadow of Antiquity yet being duly considered they will appeare to be but late inuentions peeced and patched together by their Popes as each of them in their succession was minded to adde something to make vp the full measure of the mysterie of Iniquity Neyther let them boast as of commonly they cracke of the ancient Church of Rome Rhom 〈◊〉 in Act. 1● ● Idem in E●●● 4.13 so famously renowned by the Writings of the Apostles and commended and appealed vnto by the auncient Fathers for the name and shew of the Romane Church See M. Fox his description of the diff●rence of the now Church of Rome and the old Act● and Monum first 26. page● is but an emptie shew of Names and Titles this present Romane being in a manner wholly departed in the Questions controuerted from the auncient and retayneth nothing but the Title The true auncient and Apostolike Church of Rome so much commended by the Fathers and sought to by the World professed another kind of Faith then this doth and the same that we now defend against them That Church affected no such prowd and swelling Titles it vsurped no such transcendent Iurisdictions it obserued no such foolish Superstitions it maintained contrarie Doctrine to their now Errors To what purpose then should any sticke vpon the name of the Romane Church when the true Faith is changed Or what doe the Prerogatiues and Royalties of the auncient Church concerne this that is turned to another Religion Or who regardeth an House of stately Building or anticke memorie of auncient Antiquitie when the Plague hath infected it and Theeues possesse it Leaue therefore yee Romanists to cracke of your Antiquitie or to traduce vs of Noueltie wee may take vp the words of Nicephorus Concil Eph●● sin pag. 307. the Patriarke of Constantinople in an Epistle to Leo Bishop of Rome Wee also haue the Name of Rome the ●di● and auncient Faith of Rome among vs being built vpon one and the same foundation of Faith in matter of Faith we follow them Wherefore let S. Paul glorie and reioice in vs also and ioyning new things with old and comparing vs in Doctrines and Preaching let him glorie in vs both alike for wee as well as they following the Doctrines and Institutions wherein wee are rooted are confirmed in the confession of our Faith wherein wee stand and reioyce c. As for you my poore seduced Countreymen who suffer your selues to be seduced and mis-led by these Popish Circumcellions take heed and beware how you fauour these Merchants of the Romish Strumpet who vnder fained pretences and subtile insinuations goe about to make merchandise of your soules 2. Pet. 2.5 These latter dayes saith the Apostle are perillous times and these Popish Priests and Iesuits I may say are perillous seducers 2. Tim. 3.1 6 7. They of this sort creepe into houses and lead captiue silly women laden with sinnes and led about with diuers Lusts euer learning and neuer able to come to the knowledge of the Truth Listen not vnto them It is not good for Eue to fall to conference with the Serpent Genes 3. no nor for Adam neyther to suffer Eue and the Serpents parley or to encline vnto them least hee also be partaker in the Transgression Consider what is the end they ayme at not Religion but the Soueraigntie of their high-towring Church not the Consciences of men yeelding to their Ceremonies and Superstitions will satisfie them vnlesse they haue their wills in ouer-ruling all and bringing them vnder their Antichristian Yoake How doe they disturbe Thrones and fill the World with Anarchie and Confusions and whose soules they should winne to God by ministring the Word and Sacraments their bloud they sacrifice to the Deuill by stirring them vp to Treason and Rebellion Beloued 1. Ioh. 4.1 beleeue not euery Spirit but trie the Spirits whether they be of God or no. A Foole saith Salomon beleeueth euery thing Prou. And surely it is their folly who suffer themselues to be seduced by giuing too easie credit to the slauering insinuations of these Popish Teachers and are hereby brought into a great dislike of our Church because they beleeue their words and doe not make search and enquirie after the truth of the same Beware least that dreadfull iudgement of God fall vpon you 2. Thess 2 10 11. Because they receiued not the knowledge of the Truth that they might be saued therefore God shall send them strong delusions that they should beleeue lyes You will say That you are no Changelings That yee are of the olde Religion That you keepe the olde Faith and will liue and dye in the same Religion which your fore-fathers professed Poore soules Popish Religion is not the oldest Religion but a late vpstart a Modell of Superstition your Popes Catholike Church is but an Impostume growne in the Church Wee confesse that for a long time the Christian World hath beene annoyed with it yet euen in the time and before the time of this declining from the Truth our Faith and Religion hath euer kept it selfe vnspotted The true cause why during the former ouer-clouding times of Poperie the Exercises

named I might goe on in the comparison through euery point of Doctrine in our Churches and shew the consent of these likewise in the particulars together with vs But for auoyding of prolixitie I referre the Reader to the examination hereof in the denotation of their particular opinions as they are set downe in order in the Catalogue And here by the way wee will meet with another Obiect 3 Objection of theirs which is this What doe you talke say they of Vnitie and Consent in your Protestant Churches you cannot tell whom you follow nor who are with you The Lutherans are against the Zuinglians these against the Caluinists The Geneua and other reformed Churches differ in many points from the English Therefore if any in the Catalogue before mentioned were Lutherans they were none of yours If they were Caluinists they were none of yours And therefore how can you shew your Religion in former times I answer 1. It is not strange to see difference in some circumstances betweene those that professe one and the same Religion St. Paul testifieth of the Church of Rome euen then when it was at the best That there were therein who caused diuisions and dissentions contrary to the Doctrine which they had receiued Rom. 16.17 And of the Corinthians hee saith There was among them enuying strife and contention some held of Paul 1 Cor. 3.3 Act. 15.39 Gal. 2.12 some of Apollos some of Cephas So Paul Barrabas yea Paul Peter had their differences So Poly●rates and Victor Cyprian and Cornelius Cyrill Theodoret Hier●me and Ruffinus Nazianzen and the Councell of Constantinople had not onely their differences but also bitter oppositions yet all agreeing in the substance of Faith reputed members of the same Catholike Church 2. Wee answer The defects and corruptions of Churches must be distinguished and they bee either in Doctrine or in manners Againe corruptions in Doctrine must further bee distinguished some of them are errours indeed but besides the foundation some directly against the foundation and these ouerturne all Religion whereas the former doe not As are these defects and corruptions in Churches so are their differences some about Ceremonies some about substance Now although the Churches of Geneua Heluetia Belgia c. differ from vs in some points of Ceremonies and Circumstances yet looke we to the substance of Faith and Doctrine which wee and they professe there is no difference at all betweene vs Indeed the maine difference is betweene vs and them about the point of Ecclesiasticall Discipline But marke in what manner we all ioyntly agree in the substance of the Discipline confessing on each side that there must bee the Preaching of the Word Administration of the Sacraments according to the institution and the vse of the power of the Keyes in Admonitions Suspensions Excommunications The difference betweene vs is onely touching the persons and the manner of putting this Discipline in execution And therefore notwithstanding this by difference wee and they are of one and the same Religion as may likewise appeare by the Harmonie of Confessions 3. As concerning those Churches which commonly are called the Lutheran Churches though their Augustan Confession hath not satisfied the expectation of other of the reformed Churches and some of the more rigid among them Admonition of the Ministers in the Pa●l●r hate vs as bad as Papists yet we and they are of one Church for we haue the same enemies in matters of Religion and doe alike confesse the Diuinitie The office of the Mediator the doctrine of Faith of good Workes of Repentance and in opinion about the Word the Church the Magistrate are of one iudgement They differ indeed from vs in the matter of the Sacrament and therein are in a grosse errour But that difference betweene them and vs doth not take away wholly the Analigie of Faith and Doctrine betweene vs for that there is a true and reall receiuing of the Bodie and Blood of Christ in the Lords Supper we all agree And we joyntly confesse that Christ is there present so farre forth that he doth truly feed vs with his very Body and Blood to Eternall life all the controuersie lyeth in the manner of receiuing wee acknowledging a Spirituall receiuing which is by the hand of Faith They adding thereto the Corporall whereby they imagine themselues to receiue Christ with the hand and mouth of the Bodie And though to maintaine this their opinion they be constrained to turne the ascension of Christ into a disparition whereby his Body being visible becommeth inuisible yet in the maine points wee agree that hee entred into his Kingdome in our name for vs that we are gouerned and preserued by his power might and that whatsoeuer good thing we haue or do proceedeth wholly from the grace of his Spirit wee pittie their errours and leaue their persons vnto God Againe Popish Transubstantiation and Lutheran Consubstantiation are both we confesse against the truth of the Manhood of Christ yet with great difference Transubstantiation is flat against an Article of Faith for if Christ his body be made of Bread and his blood of Wine which must needs be if there be a conuersion of the one into the other then was hee not borne of the Virgin Mary for it cannot bee both made of Bakers bread and also of the substance of the Virgin Againe it wholly abolisheth the outward Signe and the analogie betweene the signe and the thing signified and so ouerturneth the Sacrament But Consubstantiation doth not so Q. neither doth is ouerthrow the substance of any Article of Religion but onely a maine point of Phisosophie which is That a Body doth occupie onely one place at one time Therefore howsoeuer in this point there bee a great difference betweene the Lutherans and vs yet we may bee both of one Church Obiect 4 I come now to the 4. cauill and Obiection which our Aduersaries the Papists obiect against our former Catalogue of Protestants Popish disc of Faith ss 57 Admit say they that in former ages you can finde some that were your ancestors and the forerunners of your Faith Stapleton de Iustif lib. 9. c. 7 yet what manner of persons were they Such as were notorious Hereticks men branded with the marke of grosse and damnable Doctrines Campiā rat 10. prodigious and hellish liues Reprobates condemned by Popes and generall Councels yea the very dregs and the bellowes and the Iewell of hell To this we answer 1. That it is no new thing for those who are most blamelesse to be slaundered with many false and vniust calumniations Blessed are yee saith our blessed Sauiour when men shall reuile you Math. 5.11.12 and persecute you shal say all manner of euill against you falsly for my sake Reioyce be exceeding glad for great is your reward in heauen Act. 2.13 16 20. 17.7 2. Cor. 12.16 for so prosecuted they the Prophets which were before you As