of the New Testament L. p. 123. Even that Scripture of the old Testament was a light and a shining light too therfore could not but be sufficient when Tradition had gone before P. What told you us but now of misleading the Jewes by leaning too much upon Tradition and do you goe about the same way to mislead them blind as they be and to make them yet more blind if possible That you have gone to mislead Christians Doe you tell the Jewes now that the old Testament is sufficient when Tradition had gone before So as without Tradition preceding no sufficiency in the Book I perceive you will not yet have done with your Tradition as without which nothing is done L. p. 125. Certaine it is that by humane Autthority Consent and proofe a man may be assured Infallibly that the Scripture is the word of God by an acquired habit of Faith Cui non subest falsum under which no error nor falshood is but he cannot be assured Infallibâ—y by Divine Faith cui subesse non potest falsum into which no falshood can come but a Divine Testimony And a little after If you speake of Assurance onely in Generall I must then tell you a man may be assured nay Infallibly assured by Ecclesiasticall and humane proofe Men that never saw Rome may be sure and infallibly beleeve that such a City there is by Historicall and acquired Faith P. Although you use here a Schoole Distinction Cui non subest falsum cui non potest subesse falsum Of Faith Historicall and Faith Divine Assurance generall and Assurance particular yet in truth in the upshot it will appeare you speake very Confusedly as in the Babylonish Dialect or Phrase For first you attribute Infallibility to your acquired habit of Faith wherein is no falshood which habit of Faith you oppose to Divine Faith wherein no falshood can be whereas Infallibility in its genuine or Gramaticall sense importeth impossibility of Error or falshood For infallible is that which is not subject unto error which cannot be deceived So as you doe under correction very much mistake in applying your Schoole distinctions Non subest non potest to Infalliblity I remember indeed that the Schoole-men apply this Distinction to Faith Cui non subest cui non potest subesse falsum but never to Infalliblity for that is alwayes such Cui non potest subesse falsum which cannot be deceived Look a little better in your School-men and I beleeve you will find it so as I say Secondly while you would seem to put a Difference between your acquired habit of Faith which you expresse and instruct to be Historicall and Divine Faith which you say is onely to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God you doe bring both ends together making your Acquired Faith and Divine Faith one and the same kind both Historicall Onely Historicall Faith may differ respectively to the object Humane or Divine For it is an Historicall Faith that beleeves there is such a City as Rome in which respect it may be called Historicall Faith humane and it is an Historicall Faith that beleeves the Scriptures to be the word of God in which respect it may be called Historicall Faith Divine Divine I say respectively to the object but being in kind the same Historicall Faith with the other whose object is humane And you tell us before that ordinary Grace and a morall perswasion upon the necessary previous Authority and Tradition of the present Church works this your Divine Faith All which reacheth no further but to an Historicall Faith call it what you will acquired or divine And your building this your Faith upon the Rise of humane Authority and morall perswasion how ever you use the ingredience of ordinary Grace by naming of it yet you are not able to say whether this Historicall Faith be an habit infused or acquired though you never so much daube it over with Divine Onely thus you give us occasion to take notice what an accute School-Divine you are at least so farre as a distinction or two will goe which rather confound then distinguish But admit you could demonstrate and make it plain unto us that your ordinary Grace what ever it is and a morall perswasion puts a speciall difference between your Divine Faith and Historicall yet to what purpose will all this prove May not both these Faiths be found in wicked men and Reprobates however distinguished by divine ordinary Grace and the like The Schooles have a knowne Distinction much more proper and sensible and agreeable to the truâ—h of Scripture then those you bring and so apply For speaking of the Difference between ordinary common Graces and those peculiar to the Elect they call the first Gratia gratis data Grace freely given meaning Ministeriall Graces which God freely gives as well to the wicked as to the godly he gave as Royall KarÃsmata or Graces to Saul as to David and Apostolicall Graces as well to Iudas as to Peter And this Grace Thus freely given is grounded on those words of Christ freely you have received freely give But that peculiar Grace which God freely gives too but onely to his Elect is distinguished from the other being called Gratia gratum faciens Grace makeing us acceptable unto God according to that of the Apostle According as he hath chosen us in him c. haveing predestinated us c. To the praise of the Glory of his grace wherein he hath made us accepted in the Beloved Or that Being justified freely by his grace c. Now ordinary and Common Grace being freely given of God to whom he will good or bad depends not upon humane Authority as a necessary inducing Cause Yet you make your present Church Authority which is but humane a necessary previous Cause to ordinary Grace whereby your Historicall or Divine Faith as you call it is wrought in beleeving the Scripture to be word of God and so what ever faire termes you guild this Faith withall it wil be found no better then either meerely humane or at least common unto the wicked and Reprobate which for all this your Divine Faith goe to hell and then the difference is not so great between your Historicall and Divine Faith which you keep such a puzzell about but that a man may without any great hazard winck and chuse Ob. But you tell us before That ordinarily the Scriptures must have Tradition to goe before Therfore that you place not an absolute necessity in it Ordinarily So you once say indeed But so as withall it must be absolutely necessary For you make all other meanes of this beliefe to be deficient without your Church-Tradition leading the way As for the Scriptures those have not light sufficient for themselves and are as a candle that must first be lighted before it can give light and that is by Church Authority As for the holy Holy Ghost that works not this Faith but by
be heard among them And for us thy poore handmaids here humbly suppliant before thee let thy holy Spirit direct lead and assist us in the way which may be most acceptable to thy Majesty and profitable for thy People and comfortable to us all in our distressed estate And shew unto thy Servants what thou wouldst have us to doe in this difficult businesse about the presenting of this Reply to the King which with our selves and all thine we humbly commend to thy grace and blessing through Iesus Christ to whom with thee ô Father and the Holy Ghost be all honour and glory now and ever Amen Mother Now my deare Children I will tell you what resolution GOD hath put into my heart upon the very close of this Prayer namely that we addresse our selves to the King with this Reply together with an humble Petition And because all of us perhaps would be too many let as many of you as are willing to attend me goe with me to the King the rest let them goe and be humble suiters at the Throne of Grace that our GOD would give us to find Grace in the eyes of the King so as hearkening to our Petition he may doe accordingly Such therefore of you as are willing to accompany me stand on this side and the rest stand on that side Well I see you are equally divided Six with me and Six for me With me Charity Humilty Prudence Piety Patience and Verity For me Faith Hope Zeale Iustice Mercy Prayer Now my Gracious Children be strong and of a good courage Our Cause is good and GOD is for us and though our enemies be great yet they shall not prevaile against us TO THE KINGS MOST EXCELLENT MAIESTY THE TRVE CHVRCH AND CHILDREN THE TRUE FAITH AND RELIGION OF JESUS CHRIST do humbly present their Petition of Right THAT whereas a Book intituled A Relation of a Conference between WILLIAM LAUDE and Mr. FISHER the Iesuite hath been by the said WILLIAM now of Canterbury lately republished and that under your Majesties Patronage and in the publishing whereof as he saith he hath obeyed your Majesty And whereas A Reply to the said Relation is now under the Patronage of JESUS CHRIST and in obedience to his Word and by assistance of his Grace here published and presented to your Majesty and before all the World in which Reply are detected and clearely evinced by manifold and infallible Testimonies sundry particular passages and Doctrines of the Relator which directly overthrow all true Christian Faith and Religion And whereas in this Reply is clearely proved that Prelaticall Government of the Church or the Hierarchy as they call it is meere Antichristianisme and the very Mistery of Iniquity branded by the Apostle and expresly forbidden by Christ himselfe to his Apostles whose Successors the Prelates falsely pretend to be and that all Prelates even as they are Prelates are both by their Profession and Practise so many Antiâ—hrists adversaries to CHRIST who as the Great Antichrist sit as Gods in the Temple of GOD Lording over the Faith Soule and Conscience of GODS People thrusting CHRIST out of his Throne And whereas notwithstanding the manifest truth hereof confirmed by most cleare Testimony and undeniable Proofes of Scripture the Relator or Prelate hath in his said Relation uttered sundry blasphemous Speeches belying the Wisedome Counsell and Providence of GOD and of CHRIST as making Him the Author and Ordainer of such a Hierarchicall Government of his Church which is to Father upon GOD and CHRIST a most notorious Lye and Falshood where he addes withall a blasphemous New Article of Belief of the Church of England that this is a truth And whereas the Holy Scriptures is and hath been in all Ages and by all Sound and Orthodox Divines both Ancient and Moderne both Forraigne and Domestick universally received held and constantly beleeved and maintained against all Adversaries of the Truth to be the Onely Rule of Faith and Iudge of Controversies in Divinity and alone Selfe-sufficient to give Testimony to it selfe that it is the undoubted Word of GOD as in this Reply also is fully prooved And whereas the Relator notwithstanding hath loded the Scripture with many intollerable reprâ—ohes and blasphemous words of disgrace censuring it as an insufficient witnesse to it selfe and an incompetent Iudge of Controversies in Faith as being both a blinde dumbe and dead Judge and that it hath no light in it selfe but is as a Candle in a box without light till Tradition of the present Church doe light it and the like the very ground of all Infidelity and Apostacie And whereas notwithstanding all such his blasphemies against the Scripture wherewith he hath stuffed some 30 leaves in Follio besides many other the like scattered all along his Book he the same Relator out of his grosse hypocrisie addeth this proud Blasphemy to all the rest That he hath given the Scripture all honour and ascribed unto it Sufficiencie more then enough And whereas also as appeareth in this Reply the Relator belyes and blasphemes the Holy Ghost himselfe making him the Author of most notorious lyes and vanity And whereas the Relator doth define a meere false and counterfeit Catholicke Church contrary to that Holy Catholick Church beleeved in the Creed whereby he overthrowes both that Article of Faith and with all the Communion of Saints teaching that his Catholicke Church though it cease to be holy yet is a true Church of CHRIST still And whereas of and in this his new Catholicke Church which the Relator beleeveth he makes the Church of England and of Rome to be one and the same Church and both to hold one and the same Faith of that his Catholicke Prelaticall Church which Faith is declared in the Reply not to be the true saving Faith and that they both do set up and professe one and the same Religion not different in which Faith and Religion of the Church of England and of Rome he saith as he hath lived so he resolves to dye as much to say as he will live and dye an English-Romish-Catholicke And whereas the Replyer proveth and which no Papist denyeth that the maine substance of the Romish Religion is the Masse And whereas the Relator confesseth that though a simple Papist may as he saith yet no Romanist as a Romanist living and dying in the Roman Faith can be saved and yet this Faith of Rome is the same with that of England wherein he will end his dayes So as the Church of England may hereby see in what a case she is and how highly she is preferred by her Primate as to be brought to be of the same Church the same Faith the same Religion with Rome enough to startle all your Majesties Subjects that till now thought themselves to bo Protestants and no Papists and to cause all zealous Christians to abandon all communion with such a Church as is the same Church of the same Faith and Religion with Rome And wheras
by pregnant Comparisons ib. 83. How the Prelate hangs the Beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God necessarily upon the Authority of the present Church and other such poore inducements all but meere probabilities which may beget opinion but never beliefe 152 153 154 155. All examined and proved to be meere vanity in all which the Prelate destroyes all Faith and hope of Salvation 156. also 157. In what sense and way onely a Naturall Man being led by the Prelates hand as of the present Church to read the Scripture may be induced to beleeve it is the very word of GOD 154. 84. Further notorious blasphemies of the Prelate in derogating from Scripture as having no light but as a candle in a box of 12 in the pound till Tradition of the present Church doe light it Examined 157 158 159. How the Prelate perverts the Scripture and puts out the light of it 157. Other blasphemies of the Prelate against the Scripture Gods word and the Holy Ghost making his Church-Tradition the eyes inlightner 159 160 161. Gods own voyce in Scripture read and preached begets beliefe that it is Gods word 161. 85. The Prelates prosecution of this Argument in advancing his present Church Authority further confuted 162 163. 85 86. A Subtile and Sly evasion of the Prelate from the Jusuites true objection 164. A pretty tricke of Legerdemain 195. Scriptures full light teacheth a perfect knowledge against the Prelates Evasion 165 166. 87. The Prelates perverting of Scripture in his Babylonish confounding the Historicall with the Saving and justifying Faith as he alwayes doth and another Scripture in confounding the regenerate with the unregenerate 166. to 170. Whereupon the Replyer addes a notable Discourse of the nature of true Saving Faith 170 to 174 as namely of its admirable operations in the severall faculties of the Soule with its excellencie c. The Prelate Contradicts himselfe not knowing wherof he affirmeth Saving that by Faith he ever meaneth a false Faith whereby he destroyeth the true 173. The Sure beliefe of Scripture is a Christians sure comfort in trouble 172 173. 88. Hookers Sensible Demonstration so applauded by the Prelate throughly scanned and soundly proved to be false by most evident Demonstrations proving the Scripture to prove it selfe Gods word 174 to 177. The Prelates Ground from Nature being applyed to Scripture proved false and Christs Saying which the Prelate objecteth cleared 177 178. 89. Hookers stating of the Question commended by the Prelate for Tradition as the Key to open the Entrance to Scripture proved false in the Prelates sense and that Key to be a false pick-lock 178 179. 91. How the Prelate in charging the Pope for usurping Lordship over the world is taken tardy for doing the like himselfe over All England contrary to S. Peters rule alledged by the Prelate 180. 93. What assistance Lawfully sent Pastors and Teachers have ordinarily of God 180.181 95. The Prelate selfe-condemned ibid. 98. The Prelate belyes the Scripture to credit his Church-Tradition 182. Scripture little heholden to the Prelates Church-Tradition ib. His bold belying the Scripture as if that gave Authority to his usurped Church-Tradition ib. The Prelate catcht in his own Delemma or Net ibid. A Solecisme of the Prelate ibid. 100. The Prelate maliciously yoakes the precise party as he calls it with the Jesuite onely making that 10 times worse 183 184. The precise party with the Prelates factious silence Ministers vindicated from his wicked and false reproches 184 185 186. The Prelates 3 marks of his imagined Author of Ipswich Newes 186. The Prelates hypocriticall words and desperate deeds for Preaching how they agree and his cursed hypocrisie cryed shame of by his infamous practises 187. The Prelate knows not what true Preaching meanes 188. Difference between true Sermons and the Preachers for infallibility ibid. The Prelates Diabolicall malice against the true Preachers of Gods word 189. The Replyer at length forced by the Prelate to answre his compari-tween the Ancient Fathers and the best moderne Reformed Dison be vines for Preaching 190 191. Other Cavils of the Prelate answered 192 193. 104. The Prelate perverteth the Fathers to uphold Tradition still which they were against to the Prelates sense 194 195 196. Prelates Popish pretence of Scriptures deepnesse to draw men from them to seek to the Oracles of the present Church Tradition 196 to 199. With the mischiefes that may follow upon it ibid. The Prelates Popish zeale noted by occasion in his forcing all Bibles to be bound with Apochrypha 196 197. How the Prelate overthrows a true Principle and Maxime by a false 198. Grace makes Supernaturall truth more evident then Nature doth the Naturall 199. 106. Another excellent discourse of Saving Faith occasioned by the Prelate bewraying his profound ignorance herein 200 201 202. The Prelats bold belying and blaspheming Gods secret Councels 202. The Prelates broad blind Popish way 203. Fully confuted 203 204. 109. Prelate againe blasphemeth in belying Gods Councels 205. 1â—6 The Prelate hangs the Credit of Scripture upon mans opinions of Gods sufficiencie ibid. Mans opinion of Gods sufficiencie how vaine blind and impotent 206. The Prelate himselfe proved to have a blind opinion of God and of his Sufficiencie and consequently he is an Infidel not beleeving the Scripture to be Gods word 207 108. as which saith he depends on mans opinion of Gods sufficiencie 111. The Prelate still detracts from Scripture all along 208. 113. By the Prelates Doctrine the Faith of all the Apostles Martyrs ancient Fathers and Doctors which know no such Tradition of the present Church as a necessary prime inducement to lead them to the beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word is Hereticall and Schismaticall 206 210. Ergo the Prelaticall Church Schismaticall and Hereticall 115. Most notorious blasphemy of the Prelate against the Holy Ghost making him the Author of falshood as is shewed 211 212 213 214. Sundry probable Reasons layd down by the Replyer why the Prelate should as he doth chuse the light of nature as the Second to his Church Tradition to introduce beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word and of God to be God 212 213. No reverend perswasion of Scripture had till first the Tradition of of the present most Reverend Father commend it as Laudable 212. How the Prelate dallies with Romish Idolatry 211. How the Prelate hangs mans beliefe of God as of Scripture upon his Church Tradition 212. 116 The Prelates good inclination to mans free-will in beleeving The Prelates notorious and grosse hypocrisie pretending respect to the Scripture to be the motive of his tedious vain groundlesse and gracecâ—ssâ— discourse in disgracing and vilifying of it altogether and that as gâ—osly as ever any â—esuiâ—e did 215 216. The Prelaâ—es most wickâ—d perverting and abusing of Scripture 216 Wâ—o are his Christianly dâ—sposed men whom in his Discourse he â—ndâ—avoureth to satisfie ibid. 118. A nimble shift and put off of the Prelates 217. The absurbity of his Comparison of his
and of Rome doe agree upon 363 364. He contradicts himselfe ibid. 307. Jesuites Commendation of the English Liturgy whether it be a good signe 364. 318. How the Prelate rewards the late Dr. White for his Deserts and what they were 364 365. The true Church of Christ proved against the Prelate not to be alwayes visible and conspicuous by many Instances Though the Prelaticall be alwayes conspicuous 366 367 368. Most pittifull and perplexed contradictions and confused and false Speeches of the Church of Rome by the Prelate 369. Rome a Tree wholly corrupt without so much as the Barke of a true Church 370. 321. Dr. Whites Errours Fundamentall reductivè confuted 371 372. 325. Wherein the Prelates Church of England is departed from the Foundation 373. The Prelates Latitude of faith in reference to different mens Salvation which he can no more fit to them then a coat for the Moâ—ne 373 374. True Preachers must teach all what and how to beleeve though it be no worke for the Prelates pen 373. 327. The Prelate confesseth that Romanists dare not beleeve but as the Church of Rome beleeves which saith he beleeves not aright How then can his Ignorants be saved 374 375. 332. Apocrypha by the Prelate how neatly brought in as a Co-witnesse with the Scripture to prove points of Faith 375. 336. The Prelates Resolution to live and dye in the Faith of the Primitive Church confuted by sundâ—y Instances 375 376. 338. The Prelate holds not the Saving Faith as not acknowledging other then Romes Faith 377 378 379. And the Saving Faith is not in the Church of Rome 377 The Prelate holds a false Hope and Charity together with a false Faith with Rome wherein he will live and dye an English Romish-Catholicke 379 380. 339. The Prelates haâ—ting and halfing with the Jesuite 380. In charging Rome he checketh himselfe 340. His halting againe 381. Yet he confesseth that the now Roman Faith is not the Catholicke which Roman Faith he will live and dye in 380. What Contradiction is ib. His contradiction noted 382. His halting down-right all along 382 383. 342. How the Prelates Saving Faith of Rome is by himselfe proved to be Infidelity 384. So as compared with the former he will live and dye in the Roman Infidelity Conferre 375 376 377. His Collusion 382. 349 Who the first Founder of Purgatory 386. 365. The Prelates false root of the true Churches existence and true root of the false 387 388. 370. The Church of Rome how yeelded by the Replyer to be visible yet not Apostolicke against the Prelate 387 388. 371. Of Peters being at Rome 388. The Church of Rome for what preserved of God 389. 375 How the Prelate gives more liberty to his Protestants to goe to the Romish Church to heare Masse which he calls the Service of God then the Jesuite doth to his Roman Catholicks to goe to the English Service 390 391 392. 376. The Prelates Assertion That the Church of Rome and the Protestant Church of England do not set up a different Religion 392. And so no great difference of going to either yet that both accuse each other of grosse corruptions indangering Salvation 393. Ibid. Who are the Prelates Indifferent Readers to whom it appeares by his Discourse as himselfe saith That the Religion profest in the Church of England comes nearest to the Primitive Church And what Readers will judge the contrary 394. 377. Not onely Superstition as the Prelate stints it but grosse Idolatry in Adoration of Images in Invocation of Saints in Adoration of the Sacrament 395. 378. By the Prelates confession to the Priest A. C. there should be but little pride in his heart 396. 379. The Prelates wan hope of mercy to the dead Lady 396 397. 388. The Prelates Close or Conclusion wherein he excuseth himselfe by reason of his other weighty affaires and of his Age His misnaming of the Penman of the 90 Psalme least he should through all his Booke but touch or name any one Scripture and withall not mistake misapply or pervert it His fearefull and desperate condition layd home unto him by the Replyer His mocking and abusing Gods Name and Mercy in his hypocriticall Prayer and impenitent heart His blaphemy in Fathering all his Booke written and published for the meeting of his Popish Truth and Peace in a Reconciliation with Rome upon Gods Free Grace His wicked and false hope that God will bring to passe that his Diabolicall Designe and Desire which cannot come to passe but with the utter confusion of the whole Land His hypocriticall and faithlesse giving Glory to God after all his blacke mouthed blasphemies and disgraces throughout his Booke cast upon the Majesty of God of Christ and of the Holy Ghost also upon Gods holy word the Scripture as if he would in the close of all with this one plaister heale so many broken heads 397 to 405. This suffice for a rude Model But what 's that to the House it selfe Enter therfore and take a free and full view Consider what thou readest and the Lord give thee understanding in all things TO THE AVTHOR AND PVBLISHER OF THE RELATION MY Lord that you find not my Name in Front the Reasons are to my selfe And when you find it 't will appeare that feare of your displeasure though terrible enough was not the Cause But whoever I be you will Say perhaps I am some madde fellow and too bold to make a Reply to your Relation But your own words will I hope excuse me for that For you Say A right sober mâ—n may without the least touch of insolency or madnesse dispute a businessâ— of Religion with the Roman either Church or Prelate so it be with modesty and for the finding out or confirming of Truth free from â—anity and purposed opposition against even a Particular Church So you Now my manner in disputing with one so Great though a single Prelate and no Church being with modesty and 〈◊〉 from vaniâ—y and purposed opposition against your Person and the end for finding out and confirming the Truth which God himselfe knoweth I hâ—pe I Say your Lordship wil be as good as your word not to cast upon me an aspersion or Censure of the least touch of Insolâ—nâ—ie or madnesse But this indeed I must confesse unto you and professe before all the world that in a Cause so weighty as this wherein I find my Lord Iesus Christ so deeply ingaged so much dishonoured and his onely true Faith and Religion so much depressed and disparaged and that by so great a Prelate I must crave pardon if herein I be both zealous and plain with you And that so much the more that one so Great I say so high in favour in Court and so potent and prevalent in the State should so doe And to this purpose I remember another Speech in your Booke Worth is no necessary concluder for Truth For worth once misled is of all other the greatest misleader And such is
Antichrist both as he pretends to be Christs Vicar for Christ or Vice Christ as he practiseth against Christ. And for this reason he is noted to be ho Antikristos That Antichrist by a note of singularity as 1 Iohn 2.22 to distinguish him from other Antichrists of whom there are many as 1 Iohn 2.18 Of which many your Lordship and all Prelates are and especially Arch-Prelates or Patriarchs as the Pope call'd you For you tell us at after that you Prelates are Vice-roys whereby Christ governes his Church So as you being Christs vice-roy over the Church of England you are as vice Christus vice-Christ or in the Greek Antikristos as Anthúpatos Vice-roy under the King Christ. This you confesse and professe And under this Title you practise Antichrist you are an Antikeimenos an Adversary as all your practises proclame you and as we have in part noted and shall yet more set you forth And this is that Mystery of Iniquity For it were not els a Mistery if it were not veiled with a pretence and profession to be for Christ and under that to be against Christ. So as the difinition of Antichrist pertaineth no lesse properly to you then it doth to the Pope onely he is Antichrist with an Ho That Antichrist And you are An Antichrist and no little one neither as being Papa alterius Orbis The Pope or Patriarch of the other world to wit of England as the Pope said of you Now this being so cleare as is without all contradiction and you being Metropolitan of all England and the Church of England under you and the Government thereof being Prelaticall or Hierarchicall and this Hierarchy being that Mystery of Iniquity of such Antiquity for it pretends and professes to be for Christ as the Government of a vice-roy but in practise is against Christ and so is altogether Antichristian can you blame your Seperatist for condemning your Church of England of Antichristianisme and that for that very Church-Governments sake which you Say hath been used both in and ever since the Apostles in all Ages and Places where the Church hath taken any rooting But you will with the Jesuite alledge that place of Iohn to defend you from being an Antichrist as they doe to defend the Pope from being that Antichrist Iohn saith Who is a lyer but he that denyeth that Iesus is the Christ He is Antichrist But you Say you doe not deny Iesus to be Christ therefore you are neither a lyer nor Antichrist 'T is true indeed none is a more devout adorer of the Name JESUS then your selfe but yet I must tell you that for all this you deny the Person Iesus to be the Christ. But you confesse him to be the Christ. In words you doe But what saith the Apostle They professe that they know God but in works they deny him being abominable and disobedient and to every good worke Reprobate So that in words a man may confesse and professe Christ and yet in works deny him And so doe you for all your faire pretences and professed love to Iesus And who was fitter to betray Christ then he that with a Hale Master Saluted him with a Kisse But let us now see what it is to deny Iesus to be the Christ. Iesus in that place is spoken of his Person and Christ is spoken of his Offices So as there is meant not a denyall of Iesus to be the Sonne of God or God-man not a denyall of his Person and two Natures these you doe not deny but a denyall of Iesu◠to be the Christ the Anointed of the Father And this you deny How For Christ is that Anointed King Priest and Prophet which three Offices of his are comprehended and signified in the Title ho Kristòs The Christ as Iohn there sets it down and our English doth well expresse it The Christ That Anointed Anointed above his fellowes namely King Priest and Prophet so as none of his fellowes those foregoing Types or Figures of him were anointed Melchisedech was King and Priest Samuel was Priest and Prophet David was King and Prophet but never any was this ho Kristòs The Christ The Anointed King Priest and Prophet And Christ was anointed solemnly and in a conspicuous and visible manner King Priest and Prophet by the Holy Ghost lighting upon him at his Baptisme whereupon that voyce of the Father from heaven proclamed him King Priest and Prophet This is my Beloved Son there he is King in whom I am well pleased there he is Priest heare him there he is Prophet Now he that denyeth or destroyeth any one of these three Offices of Christ which are inseperably inherent in him and incommunicable to any Creature denyeth Iesus to be the Christ as either denying him to be the onely King or the onely Priest or the onely Prophet of his Church Now 't is no hard matter to prove that you Prelates as Prelates deny and destroy all these three Offices of Christ. And first you deny Iesus to be the Onely Priest and that not onely in taking upon you the Title of Priests but also the Office The Title of Priest you professe and take a pride in And the Office of Priest you Priests of the Church of England doe in part at least usurpe For the Office of Christ as Priest is in two things First to Sacrifice Secondly to forgive Sins Now though you doe not yet openly professe your selves to be sacrificing Priests as the Romish Priests doe yet you take upon you to doe that which never any Priests under the Law did or might by their Office doe namely to forgive Sinnes This I say never any of the Leviticall Priests did This was and is Christs onely Prerogative as he is God and Priest For who can forgive Sins but onely God This the proud Pharisees confessed But this power you Say you have derivatively from Christ by his Authority committed unto you as Priests But first we have before proved that you are no Priests of Christ. Secondly where hath Christ given any such power even to his Apostles and true Ministers of the Gospell to forgive Sins Indeed he saith unto them Receive ye the Holy Ghost whose Sins ye remit they are remitted and whose Sins ye retaine they are retained Was this by a Priestly Absolution But the Apostles were no such Priests as you professe to be Therefore it was not by any such Priestly Absolution as you practise How then How then Say you You are here at a Non-plus if it was not by a Priestly Absolution It must needs remaine then that it was by the Ministry of the Gospell and by the preaching of Faith and Repentance and pardon of Sinnes to the Penitent Beleevers As He that beleeveth and is baptised into Christ professing his true Faith and Repentance hath his Sinnes remitted but he that beleeveth not hath his Sins still retained And this is that remitting of Sins Declarative the power whereof Christ committed to his Apostles
curse them yet can you not doe as that wicked Prophet did in Counselling King Balack to put a stumbling block before the Children of Israel by inticing them to his Idols with his faire Damosels You can tell us that the Church of England and of Rome are one and the Same Church and that her worship of Images is but a trenching or coming neare Idolatry as at after so as none need fear communion with her so he be but ignorant of her Corruptions Of which more hereafter But though you cannot prophesie what is all your practise but a cleare Prognostication and that not onely foretelling but causing and haling in a Deluge of Atheisme and Irreligion flowing in upon you Yea witnesse this your Book which could not spring but from the root of Atheisme and Sourse of all Irreligion and which doth not onely prognosticate nor onely teach the way how Atheisme and Irreligion may gather strength but doth certainly presage and that by necessary consequence most terrible Judgements and Calamities to fall upon the Church of England I would say rather upon the Hierarchy of England and which you doe with both hands in writing and publishing this Book and by all other your practises pull upon your own heads But this your feare of Atheisme and Irreligion to gather strength is say you while the Truth is weakened by an unworthy way of contending What Truth Or what is that unworthy way of contending for the Truth Or what is your Atheisme and Irreligion For all these termes need your interpretation But your prudent modestly therein we will make bold as well as we can to Supply First for Truth it is much in your mouth I meane the name and word Truth But when you name Truth you alwayes mean Falshood as when you Speake of the Church you meane such a Church as is a false Church and when you Speake of Peace you meane such as is a false Peace when your Reconciliation with Rome is a Conspiracie against Christ and his true Church and when you name Priest you meane such as is a false Priest and when you name Devotion you meane such as is a false Devotion of humane devising and when you name Faith as the gift of God you meane not the true Saving Faith whereof the Apostle speakes where he Saith Faith is the gift of God As we shall see at after So as ever under the green leaves of such faire words as Truth Peace Church Devotion Faith c. we may ever Suspect and shal be ever sure to find a false Serpentine Sense to lurke Secondly your unworthy way of contending for the Truth what is it but that which the Apostle exhorts unto that Christians should earnestly contend for the Faith given to the Saints and Paul that we should sunathlein wrastle together as for Mastery or for a Crown for the Faith of the Gospell Now is not this that which you call an unworthy way of contending for the Truth No doubt of thâ—â— As to write Books or preach Sermons proving the Pope to be Antichrist and the Church of Rome to be a false Church or no Church of Christ and no Salvation to be hoped for in that Church and that all true Christians ought to have no Communion with that Church but to abhorre and abandon her as the Lord commandeth and that Prelates are not Jure divino but are Antichristian and their Hierarchy Tyrannicall and that Altars in Churches are a denying of Christ the Onely Altar and that all Ceremonies invented and imposed by men in the Service of God is a will-worship condemned by Christ and his Apostles and many such like This is that unworthy way of contending whereby you say the Truth is weakened No marvaile Thirdly what is that Atheisme and Irreligion which you feare will gather Strength while the Truth is weakened by such an unworthy way of contending This I take it may be taken two wayes Either that by Atheisme you meane the true Faith of Christ which is opposite to the Romish faith wherewith you hold such correspondence for whatsoever is contrary to Romes faith or which is all one your faith is with you branded for Atheisme Or Secondly Atheisme truely and properly taken gathers strength by such an unworthy way of labouring a Reconciliation between the Church of England and the Church of Rome which to make way for you are glad to say that these two Churches are for substance one and the Same Church Now before your time the Church of England though in many things it symbolized with Rome as hath been shewed yet still it renounced all communion with her as being a Strumpet and that great Whore whose Husband is the great Antichrist But now you have so turned the Cat in the pan by making way to bring the Church of England back againe to an union and communion with Rome that you put the people to a stand to a nonplus so as they know not what to beleeve or what to think but are ready to cast off all further thought of God as if there were no God because they see those to flourish and to goe on unpunished who overthrow the faith formerly professed in England seting up the Romish faith againe where it had been cast out and on the other side Preaching and Preachers to be put down and the true Professors to be persecuted and thrown out of all and forced to quit their native Countrey and the like Now where all this is do you but feare that Atheisme gathers Strength Nay is not the root of all your cruely in persecuting Christs Ministers and People meere Atheisme It is noted of the Sadduces that of all other Sects they were the most cruell in their judiciall Censures As Euseb. Eccl. Hist. l. 2. c. 14. out of Iosephus And no marvaile They denyed the Resurrection and the Last Iudgement So as they were Atheists This made them dare to practise all cruelty and injustice For Maxima peccandi illaecebra impunitatis Spes So how durst you be so unjust and cruell in your oppressions and persecutions did you certainly beleeve that there is a Resurrection and Last Judgement wherein you shall be Judged But this by the way 't is an Item And Irreligion also what 's that That 's soon resolved to wit Obstinacie in not admitting of Altars in some Churches Irreveverence in not bowing to Altars and worshiping towards the East and adoring the name Iesus and the like This is with you Irreligion because your whole Religion is placed in these things For so you tell us in the words following L. p. 19. The externall worship of God in his Church is the GREAT WITNESSE to the world that our hearts stand right in the Service of God Take this away or bring it into contempt and what light is there left to shine before men that they may see our Devotion and glorifie our Father which is in heaven P. Surely were it not
one of these either expresse word of God or evident consequence â—ut of it And a little before Every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose the Determinations of the Church no not when they are Dogmata deposita Deposed Principles P. Now all these Passages weighed together do clearely and distinctly resolve themselves into these Conclusions 1. That the Church may decide and determine some things without any evidence or so much as a probable Testimony of holy Writ and herein you consent and jumpe fully with that notorious Papist and adversary of the once Church of England Stapleton whom the learned Dr. Whitakers publickly confuted in the Divinity Schooles in Cambridge as his Works can yet testifie And yet behold now the Church of England hath got a Champion in the Chaire of Canterbury who pleads for and applauds that in Stapleton which Dr. Whitakers and many other learned Divines in England formerly have refuted And for further Confirmation hereof you tax Bellarmine as of untruth where he confesses that nothing may be certaine by certâ—inty of Faith unlesse it be contained immediately in the word of God or be deduced thence by evident consequence Whereupon you inferre that if nothing can be certaine then certainly no Determination of the Church it selfe wanting expresse word or evident Consequence out of it Thus you condemne Bellarmines true Saying if by the Word of God he understand the Scriptum alone and not his word unwritten and approve and preferre Stapletons false and hereticall sentence before it Secondly That things so decided and determined by the Church without either evident or so much as probable Testimony of holy writ yet are so de fide so firmely to be beleeved as every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose Consonant hereunto you â—ay at after pag. 224. The Determination of a Generall Councel â—â—ring is to stand in force and to have externall obedience at least yeelded to it till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the Contrary make the errour appeare and untill thereupon another Councel of equall Authority do reverse it And so also pag. 226. c. Where here I mention for clearer proofe of what you say here but not to anticipate or prevent our fuller Answere when we come to those places where we shall supply our brevity here L. p. 40. I hope A. C. will not tells us there 's any Tradition extant unwritten by which particular men may have assurance of their Severall Salvations P. But what think you of it Will you tell us there is no such thing written in the Scripture That true Beleevers may have assurance of their owne Salvation But if there be why doe you forbid Preachers to meddle with it considering the true and solid comfort which it bringeth to him that hath it As the 17 th Article confesseth might it be suffered to speake out and had you not put a gagge in the mouth of it L. p. 43. Mine is That the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God and infallible is an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith wâ—th or rather to the whole body of the Creed P. How The Belief of Scripture to be Gods word and infallible no more but an equall or rather a preceding prime Principle of Faith with or rather to the whole body of the Creed This is yours you say your Saying And I beleeve it to be yours For it is as like to one of your Sayings as may be For here you attribute no more credit to the Scriptures then to the Creed both equall onely differing perhaps in point of some precedencie of time or So with an or rather equall or rather preceding the difference not great if any Thus doe you not equall a Church Tradition with the Divine Scripture For we have it by Tradition that the Apostles compiled the Creed and each his Severall Article And is this or any other Tradition of equall Credit with Scripture And is not the Scripture the Rule whereby the Articles of the Creed are to be interpreted which are no otherwise to be beleeved but as they are agreeable to the Scripture So as for the Purpose if you goe no further for the Sense of the Article of Christs Descent into hell then the very Letter of the Article you can make no Sense of it nor give any reason for it And how then can you give a reason of your Faith in this particular Except you do beleeve it because you do beleeve it and because the words are He Descended into Hell But of this more by and by L. p. 44. Some Traditions I deny not c. to be Apostolicall but yet not fundamentall in the Faith P. You might do well to point out unto us which be those your Apostolicall Traditions that we may distinguish them from those Traditions which Rome calls Apostolicall Or rather perhaps you admit of all those as Apostolicall indeed but yet not Fundamentall Surely if you can prove them to be truely Apostolicall namely that the Apostles delivered them immediately to the Church by word of mouth why are they not fundamentall in the faith Why are not all bound to beleeve them or give as much Credit to them as to the Articles of your Creed which you Say are fundamentall in the faith L. p. 45. The Church of England taketh the words He descended into hell as they are in the Creed and beleeves them without further Dispute and in that Sense which the ancient Primitive Fathers of the Church agreed in P. Here a Question may be moved 1. In generall Whether a man taking up a matter upon such trust as he gives equall beliefe unto it as to the Scriptures themselves doe not therein Sinne damnably As making that a fundamentall ground of his Faith which is not found to be in the Scripture Secondly in particular Whether a man resting in the very Letter of the Article He descended into Hell beleeving thâ—reupon as surely as he beleeves that God is in Heaven that Christs Soule did locally descend into Hell among the damned there having no regard at all to what the Scripture Saith of it whether the Scripture Say any such thing or no doe not hereby make way for his owne Descent into Hell Or thirdly Whteher you do as verily and firmly beleeve Christs Descent into Hell as you doe his Ascent into Heaven Seeing the Scriptures Speakes clearely and expresly of this but not so of that and whether you are aâ— much bound to beleeve his Descent into Hell because you find such words in the Creed as his Ascent into Heaven because you find it in the Scripture Now for Answere to all these together I conceive that to make any thing of the necessity of Faith to Salvation besides what is found in the Scripture is Sinne and in particular to beleeve that because it is Said in the Creed He Descended into Hell therefore Christ
did locally in Soule descend into Hell the place of the damned without any proofe from Scripture is Sin My reasons are these 1. Because this opens a gappe to men to beleeve humane Traditions to be of Faith to Salvation as of equall credit and authority to the Scriptures Now it cannot be proved that the Creed it selfe with its forme and words and Articles and Title called The Apostles Creed is other then a humane Tradition or that the Apostles composed the Creed Secondly This argues as a too high estimation of a thing humane as if it were autópistos of selfe-Credit so a too base estimation and undervaluing of the holy Scripture as if they alone were not the Rule of Faith or not to be relieâ— and rested on alone for all matters concerning Christian Faith So as to give Credit to any thing else besides the Scripture as of equall Authority with the Scripture as you make your Creed to be and not examining it by the Scripture is a detracting from the Authority of Scripture and consequently a denying of the Scripture to be the Sole Rule of Faith For the Creed it is either a part of the Scripture or not a part if it be not a part of Scripture as indeed it is not then all the Articles of Faith in it being but a small abridgement of Christian Faith and so of necessity and in comparison of Scripture it selfe very obscure and Scanty are to be proved and illustrated from Scripture the Sole Rule of Faith and Tryall of all Truths Thirdly in Particular to beleeve Christs descent in Soule into hell locally must stand with some reason and analogy or proportion of Faith layd downe in the Scripture For Christ did or suffered nothing but the Scripture shews the Reason Cause and End of it For instance Isaiah Saith To us a Child is borne to us a Son is given So the Angel to the Shepheards To you is borne this day a Saviour which is Christ the Lord. This then shews the End of Christs Incarnation namely for our Salvation Then for his Death He was delivered up for our Sins And Forasmuch as the Children were partakers of flesh and blood he also himselfe likewise took part of the Same that through death he might destroy him that had the power of dâ—ath that is the Devil And deliver them who through feare of death were all their life time subject to bondage So for his Resurrection He rose againe for our Iustification So for his Ascention It was that he might send the Holy Ghost and goe to prepare a place in heaven for all his So for his Sitting at Gods right hand There he makes Intercession for his people rules as King his Church in preserving protecting governing his people and makeing his and their foes his Footstoole But for any such thing as Descent into hell neither is it found in the Scripture nor much lesse any reasons given there of it Indeed Peter Speaking of Christs Resurrection alledgeth Psal. 16. Thou wilt not leave my Soule in Hell So in the English In the Hebrew it is commonly taken for the Grave not for the place of the damned But will you take Peters exposition of it Speaking by Christs owne Spirit This saith he David Seeing before Spake of the Resurrection of Christ that his Soule was not left in Hell neither his flesh did see Corruption So then this place Psal. 16. was by the Holy Ghosts owne Interpretation a Prophecie of Christs Resurrection from the Grave and not of any Descent into Hell the place of the damned For he is not said to rise out of hell as you say he went downe into Hell nor to ascend out of Hell as you beleeve he descended into Hell Will you have a particular Article of Christs descent into Hell and shall you not need another Article for his Ascent out of Hell againe And the Apostle saith Christ descended Eis tà katótera mère tes ges to the lowest parts of the Earth which is spoken of his humiliation to the Death and the Grave but here is no word of his Descent into any such place as Hell the place of the damned But admit your Faith to be true that Christs Soule descended locally into Hell I aske to what end or purpose Can you shew any Reason from Scripture for this Will you say his Soule went thither to suffer Surely that had its Consummatum est upon the Crosse there it was finished Will you say he went to triumph over the Devil in his owne Dâ—nne That was also done on his Crosse as on his Triumphall Chariot And can you give any reason why Christ should descend into hell in regard of us What that so he might deliver our Soules out of Hell Surely this also was done in his Death And againe if it were necessary that Christs soule should goe locally into hell to deliver our soules then also it was necessary for his body to descend into hell to deliver our bodies from thence For he came to redeem our bodies as well as our soules Or what els can you Say Certainly what ever you can invent the Scripture will presently discover the vanity of it But for my part I dare beleeve nothing concerning Christ and my Salvation but what the Scripture hath revealed But the Scripture hath revealed no such thing as the Descent of Christs Soule into Hell locally But you will then object unto me Do I not beleeve my Creed and every Article in it I answere I doe Why then say you Doe I not beleeve the Article of Christs Descent into Hell I say I doe being understood or expounded according to the Scripture and the Analogy of Faith therein How is that Christ dyed and in his Passion he suffered the Torments of Hell in his Soule on the Crosse and in the Garden But his Descent into Hell is set after his buriall And doe you not know that the ancient Heathen used to put Hádes for the state of the dead So as katelthein eis hadou is to goe or to abide in the state of the dead which Christ did for 3. dayes and then arose againe and revived So as the Article shewes the continuance of Christs being dead and buried till his Resurrection Againe you know the Nicene Creed mentions onely Christs buriall and no Descent into Hell and Athanasius his Creed katelthen eis hadou He Descended into Hell without speaking a word of his buriall All which doe confirme what I say that christ in being buried remained so long in the State of the dâ—ad his soule seperated from his body and being said to Dâ—scend into Hell hades signifying also the Grave thereby is meant his being buried for so long a time till his rising againe As it is said in the next Article The third day â—e rose againe from the dead that is from the Grave where he abode in the state of the dead Now I have given
you a reason of my Faith Can you give one reason of yours concerning this Article as you take and beleeve it with your Church of England Show but one reason or shadow of a reason out of Scripture Nay except you bring every Article of the Creed to the examen or tryall of Scripture for the staying and establishing of your Faith you may run into many monstrous errours What doe you beleeve concerning Christs death You beleeve that hee dyed But for whom Whether for the Elect onely in Gods Purpose Account Appointment Acceptance or universally for all men Elect and Reprobate I tell you my Lord if you beleeve that Christ dyed for all men universally as well for the Reprobate as the Elect you destroy both Gods Grace in giving Christ for his people onely the Elect and also the merit and effâ—icacy of Christs death The Scripture shewes these things aboundantly But I mention this onely by the way Againe What doe you beleeve concerning the holy Catholicke Church You beleeve I dare say and you doe say it that the Catholicke Church on earth consists visibly of all Prelates and those that are subject unto them as one intire Body This is your Faith But if you examine this by the Scripture you will find it to be an Errour no lesse soule then false as hath been shewed So doe you not beleeve the Article of the Communion of Saints You doe But who are your Saints on earth You will hardly allow any Saints on earth till after their death they be Canonized by his Holinesse at Rome Nay in plaine termes you persecute both the Saints themselves and their Communion Can you indure such as but professe holinesse And for their Communion doe you not hunt out and persecute Private Fasting and Prayer among the poore soules of Christ when publick they can have none and no other remedy or weapons are left them to defend themselves withall against your bloody Cruelty So as the truth is you neither rightly beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church nor the Communion of Saints but are a notorious both denyeâ— and persecuter of both And therefore we see what a necessity there is that we should bring the Articles of the Creed to the Standard Rule the Scripture both as the surest and safest way yea and the onely way to preserve our Faith from Errour But you object the Fathers for the Sense of this Article of Christs Descent into hell as you beleeve it What if they beleeved so Is their example a sufficient Rule for us We must examine their sense they held of it by the Scripture If it be not according to the Scripture we reject it The Fathers might for a time hold an erronious generally received opinion before it came to be controverted and well sifted and examined by Scripture But they were ever ready to have their faith and opinions tryed by the Scriptures All the ancient Fathers were of this mind and spirit As before Pelagius his time the Fathers spake too liberally of Mans Free-will which after upon his Heresie they reformed and by Scripture abundantly confuted the Pelagians and especially Augustine Ierome Prosper Fulgentius Hilarius and others And Augustine inticing a Donatist to dispute about that Heresie Saith unto him Ratione agamus divinarum Scripturarum authoritate agamus Let us dispute the matter by Argument let us be guided by the Authority of the Divine Scriptures Not what I and thou Say but what Christ Saith And this was the Spirit I say and practise of all the Fathers in such cases So as if this Article of of Christs descent into hell had been by occasion of controversie about it well searched into and examined by the Scripture no doubt but the Fathers would therein have regulated their Faith according to the truth of Scripture But the Church of England say you holds and beleeves that Article as you doe No marvaile when you doe And should you hold otherwise must it not doe so too And yet we have but your bare word for it But you will alledge your Article That Christ went downe into hell But we must examine your Article by the Scripture And it is not the sound of your Article but the sense and that it agreeth with Scripture But we have shewed that no such thing is in Scripture And you tell us withall what Mr. Rogers upon the Articles saith of this That then Then I say in diebus illis the Church of England was not resolved of this Article and he was then the Arch-bishop of Canterbury his Chaplein your Predecessor Richard Bancroft But now your Lordships bare word is enough to Sway the Ballance which before stood but in aequilibrio in an even peize not resolved but now resolved But this I can tell you what ever your Church of England now beleeves there is and I hope a good sound Church of Christ yet in England that beleeves the Creed and all the Articles thereof and this in particular no otherwise then they find them agreeable to the Scripture and the Analogy of Faith And this is agreeable to that which once a Prelâ—te of England said By the generall confâ—ssion of all Antiquity Traditions must he warranted by the Scriptures or els we must reject them And Isidore saith A Prelate if he teach or command any thing besides that which is evidently cammanded in the holy Scriptures let him be taken for a false witnâ—ssie to God and a committer of Sacriledge But looking a little further I find you confessing That the Church of England hath not determined as yet either way by open Declaration upon this Article No hath she not How then doe you affirme and would perswade us that you beleeve with the Church of England that Christ descended into hell without any further Dispute We hope therefore it will not be long before your Declaration come forth with a Definitive Sentence determining the sense of this Article one way or other And the rather because in the late Declaration before the Articles wherein this Article of Christs going down into hell is particularly set downe for one they are declared to be of ambiguous sense and yet men must hold to the letter of the Article So as by that Declaration we are lesse resolved of the Articles then before A new Declaration therefore we would faine see which is cleare Declarative and Determinative and therein tell us whether Christs Soule descended into Hell the place of the damned or into Purgatory the Suburbs of hell and whether Locally and for what end and purpose because the Scripture is altogether silent in this whole mystery and whether you find hell to be in the Center of the Earth or no because your Article saith He went down into hell c. But in the mean time I have for my part ingenuously given you a reason of my Faith touching this Article which I am so resolved on by the Scripture that whatsoever Declaration you or your Church of England
that coming as neare as you can to the Papists in their Ceremonies you shall thereby bring them to the Church And surely this is the ready way either to bring Papists to your Church or you to their Church But I say the Church was so pestered with Rites and Ceremonies even in Augustins dayes that he complained that Christians were now in a worse case and condition under the Gospel then the Iewes were under the Law for though their yoake was grievous yet those Leviticall rites were of Gods owne ordaining and commandement but Christians saith he are brought under an intolerable yoake of Ceremonies of mens devising and imposing But now on the other side if I should enter into a Comparison between the Reformed Churches since Luther and those Primitive and ancient Churches as aforesaid I know it would be very tedious to your Lordship and extremely move your Patience especially if I should by many degrees preferre Calvin Bezâ— Zanchius Iunius and many hundred more Worthies both for learning and piety and chiefly for Soundnesse in Doctrine in the Reformed Churches beyond the Seaes yea and not a few on this side as Cranmer Ridley Latimer Hooper all Martyrs Iewel Whitakers Reynolds Perkins with infinite more and all within one Century before such as those Centuries aforesayd produced whose Names for Envy-sake I forbeare to mention Lastly you say you are content to submit to them in all those points of Doctrine If you be then for Shame cleare away those Cloudes which the said Declaration hath over-cast your Articles withall and cast away your Arminian Pelagian sense and take off your Suspension of them and let them speak one single truth as they formerly did and as all understood them according to the Scriptures L. p. 62. The Catholicke Church we beleeve in our Creed to be the Society of all Christians P. What you beleeve is one thing But we beleeve the Catholicke Church of Christ in the Creed to be the number and Society of all the Elect as the next Article expounds it The Communion of Saints but not that Company of all Christians which you name and meane Christians in name and profession tag and ragge pell mell good and bad Papists and Protestants of which the greatest number are no true living members of the true Catholick Church the mysticall body whereof Christ is the Head and which by Faith onely we apprehend for we beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church but cannot discerne with our bodily eyes as we doe a visible Object This is that Church which Christ loved for which he gave himselfe that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word to present it to himselfe a glorious Church not having spot or wrinckle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish This we beleeve to be the Holy Catholicke Church and no other But thus indeed as you tell us before you make wider the Gates of the Catholicke Church then ever Christ made them or rather indeed you exclude the Catholicke Church of Gods Elect and set up a new Catholicke Church which may be seen but ought not to be beleeved L. p. 66. Agreed on for me also it shal be that Gods word may be written and unwritten P. Agreed on with whom Even with no lesse then Bellarmine For in the very next words you give us the reason why it is agreed upon for you that Gods word may be written and unwritten For Say you Cardinall Bellarmine tells us truely that it is not the writing or Printing that makes Scripture the word of God but it is the Prime unerring Essentiall Truth God himselfe uttering and revealing it to his Church that makes it Verbum Dei the word of God Doth Bellarmine say so And that truely And to what end I pray you doth the Cardinall say so Is it not to overthrow the Scripture for being the Sole word of God and to bring in another word of God which he calls verbum non Scriptum an unwritten word that is a word besides the Scriptures and equall to the Scriptures which is Romes unwritten Traditions And to this end and purpose Bellarmine using these words doth he tell you truely and is this the reason for which it is agreed on for you that Gods word may be written and unwritten Now though it be true that that which is spoken by God is his word though it be not written yet to us there is now no other word of God but that which is written that which is contained in the Scriptures And this word written is that alone which our Faith is grounded and settled upon According to that of Iohn Many other Signes truely did Iesus in the presence of his Disciples which are not written in this Booke But these things are written that ye might beleeve that Iesus is the Christ the Son of God and that beleeving ye might have life through his Name So as we are not to inquire further what Christ spake or did besides what we find written But your Lordship tells us before of certaine Traditions Apostolicall which it seems are that word of God which may be unwritten For you say If the Scripture be a Foundation to which we are to goe for witnesse if there â—e doubt about the Faith and in which we are to find the thing that is to be beleeved as necessary in the Faith we never did nor never will refuse any Tradition that is Vniversall and Apostolicke for the better exposition of the Scripture And to this place you referre that which you say pag. 58. As for Tradition I have said enough for that and as much as A. C. where 't is truely Apostolicall From which words first we observe that you make but an If of the Scripture as a Foundation If the Scripture be a Foundation and If in it we are to find the thing that is to be beleeved as If it were to be found in any thing else And Secondly how home you come to A C. the Jesuite in admitting Tradition Apostolicke to expound any doubt about the Faith and so with Bellarmine you are agreed for a word of God unwritten as well as written And you further adde here pag. 66. Speaking of the Scriptures their being written gave them no Authority at all in regard of themselves Written or unwritten the Word was the same But it was written that it might be the better preserved and continued with the more integrity to the use of the Church and the more faithfully in our memories So you Now 't is true that by the writing of the Scripturâ—s Gods word contained therein is preserved continued in integrity and the more faithfully kept in our mâ—mories But is thiâ— all Nay the very writing of them though it added no Authority to Gods word in regard of it selfe yet as the Scriptures are to us Gods word is of the greater Authority because written For we acknowledge no other word of God as
tâ—e Rule and Foundation of our Faith but what we find written in the holy Scriptures This is that word of God which is authenticall of Authority to his Church and therefore Authority to us because written So as your unwritten word whereiâ— you agree with Bellarmine and your Apostolicke Traditions wherin you come home to your A. C. the Jesuite we receive none of them all as authentick or to have any thing to doe to expound the Scripture in any doubt about the Faith But if you can shew us any Traditions Apostolick we will by your leave examine them by the Scriptures and not the Scriptures by them You name baptizing of Infants for a Tradition Apostolicke We doubt not but the Apostles baptized the Infants of beleeving Parents For the Infants or Children of such are holy as the Apostle sheweth And so they belonged to the Covenant And as the Children of the Jewes in the old Testament were circumcised as pertaining to the Covenant and promise made to Abraham and to his Seed So Baptisme succeding in place of Circumcision as a Seale of the Same Covenant belongs to all Children of beleeving Christian Parents As the Apostle saith Therefore it is of Faith that it might come by Grace and the Promise might be sure to all the Seed not to that onely which is of the Law but to that also which is of the Faith of Abrahâ—m who is the Father of us all So as beleeving Christians have the same interest in the Covenant with Abraham and their Children or Infants have the like priviledge of Baptisme as the Infants of the ancient Israelites had for Circumcision Therefore the Baptizing of Infants was certainly practised by the Apostles as well as the baptising of beleeving Parents So as we doe not baptize Infants because you tell us it is a Tradition Apostolicke but because it is as clearely and firmely grounded in the Scripture as the baptizing of beleeving Parents We exclude therefore whatsoever Word unwritten or Traditions Apostolicke as you call them as being either partiall or equall Rules of Faith with the Scriptures as Bellarmine calls them or as Interpreters and Iudges of the Scripture in doubts about Faith as you are bold to affirme We have no word of God but the Scripture we acknowledge no Traditions Apostolicke but what we find they delivered in Scripture The Prophets in the old Testament sent Gods people to the Scripture for information instruction resolution in all matters of Faith and Cases of Conscience To the Law and to the Testimony Saith Isaiah if they Speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them He Saith not To the Traditions of our Fathers but To the Law and to the Testimony Gods word written Els there is no light in men they are blind guides that in matters of Faith lead us any where but to and by the Scriptures And the Prophet Ieremiah They have rejected the word of the Lord and what wisedome is in them All wisdome without this word of God is foolishnesse all knowledge without this is ignorance and blindnesse So our Saviour Christ Search the Scriptures for in them ye thinke to find eternall life and they are they which testifie of me So as Christ allowes us no other Testimony of him and of Faith in him but the Scriptures We must erunan Search them not the Archives or Sacraries of blind Traditions though guilded over never so faire with the name of Apostolick nor of any pretended word of God unwritten And Christ answereth the Lawyer when he asked what he should doe to inherit Eternall life What is written in the Law How readest thou And the Apostle That none presume above that which is written And Whatsoever things were written afore time were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope And Peter We have a more sure word of Prophecy to wit the Scriptures of the old Testament whereunto ye doe well that ye take heed In all which places and many more the Scripture is still commended to us as the onely absolute sufficient perfect and compleat Rule of our Faith in all matters or doubts of Faith touching our Salvation So as it hath no other interpreter but it selfe not any Tradition not any word unwritten But of this you will give us occasion to speak more at after L. p. 72 73. Faith is the gift of God of God alone and an Infused habit in respect whereof the soule is meerely recipient The Sole Infuser is the Holy Ghost Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve P. I confesse when first I read these words I began to muse with my selfe and to argue thus What is my Lord of Canterbury turn'd Orthodox no Arminian in the Doctrine of Grace But looking a little further and observing both the Authors you alledge as Stapleton a great man with you and other Popish Authors as is usuall with you throughout your Book and also considering of what Faith you here Speak I changed my conceit and found that you were no Changeling For wheras I thought that all this faire â—â—ourish of Faith is the gift of God of God alone A habit infused The Holy Ghost the Sole Infuser The soule meerely recipient Till Gods Spirit move mans heart he cannot beleeve had been meant of that Grace of Saving and Iustifying Faith which the Scripture teacheth and particularly the Apostle Ephes. 2.8 By Grace ye are saved through Faith and not of your selves it is the Gift of God c. I imagined I say that as you used the Apostles very words and the Language of Scripture so you had done it in the sense and mind of the Apostle and of the Scripture which Speaks so of the Saving and Iustifying Faith But when I found the contrary I confesse I blushed at my folly in having such a conceit of you having had so much experience both of your usuall perverting of Scriptures and your corrupt sense throughout your Book and considering that light and darknesse cannot stand together and how you hâ—ve altogether suppressed the Preaching of the Doctrines of Grace and finding that all this Faith you Speake of is nothing els but that historicall Faith in beleeving the Scriptures to be the word of God which beliefe is common to the very Reprobates and Devils themselves who beleeve and tremble Phristouâ—i they quiver and Shake as when mens teeth Chatter in their head in extreme cold And yet how doe you abuse the Scripture and your Reader in giving to this Faith those peculiar Attributes which are proper and peculiar to the onely Saving Grace of Saving Faith the Sole Infuser Giver and worker whereof is the Holy Ghost Tell me how come the Devils to that historicall faith whereby they beleeve the Scripture to be the very word of God and all things therein to be most certainly true and so all
those plagues written therein and threatned against Reprobates and Devils shal be most certainly inflicted in beliefe whereof they tremble What have they this Faith given them of God and is the Holy Ghost the Sole Infuser of it or any Infuser of it at all And yet I say This historicall faith is that which you Speake of here For you do in that 16 th Section consisting of about 30 leaves in folio Speake of that Faith alone which beleeves the Scripture to be the word of God the onely subject of that long and tedious Discourse wherein you have spent so much sweat to so small purpose And the words immediately preceding doe shew this And your words immediately following are to confirme it which you alledge out of Stapleton Saying The Holy Ghost did not leave the Church in Generall nor the true members of it in particular without Grace to beleeve what himself had revealed and made credible Wherupon you inferre a little after Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve be the object never so credible Thus we see your mind at full what Faith what Gift of God what Grace this is which you Say none but the Holy Ghost giveth to his Church namely not that faith not that gift of God not that Grace not that worke of the Holy Ghost whereby a man comes to beleeve in Christ and to be indued with the Grace of Regeneration and Sanctification the proper worke and gift of the Holy Ghost whereof the Apostle speaketh in the fore-cited place but such a faith such a grace as the Councel of Trent professeth and aloweth and so that which Stapleton and all other Pontificials write of which is common to all wicked men and Reprobates as we have elswhere fully proved L. p. 75. The world cannot keep a man from going to weigh the Scripture at the Ballance of Reason whether it be the word of God or not For the word of God and the Book containing it refuse not to be weighed by Reason And pag. 76. For Reason by her own light can discover how firmely the Principles of Religion are true but all the light Shee hath will never be able to find them false P. 'T is â—rue that mans naturall Reason being not bridled by grace is so head-strong that the world it selfe cannot restrain it within its owne bounds but will be medling But yet though Reason be not excluded from giving her voyce and assent to the Scripture yet She must know her place She must come in the Reere of all and as a hand-maid not as a Mistresse Nor is it Reasons office to bring her ballance to weigh the Scriptures whether it be the word of God or not for herein She hath no negative voyce but onely of assent So as in this respect as a Judge Gods word refuseth to be weighed by Reason much lesse can it be true that Reason by her own light can discover how firmly the Principles of Religion are true For mans Reason being but Naturall and Gods word Supernaturall there is no proportion between them and Reason can no more judge of Scripture in this respect then a blind man can judge of colours So as Reason must not come in with her ballance and weights till a man be illuminated by the Scriptures themselves and by the Spirit of God and then being convinced of the truth thereof She gives her full assent that the Scripture is the word of God The Apostle saith The naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God neither can he know them because they are Spiritually discerned How say you then That Reason by her own Light can discover how firmly the Principles of Religion are true Point blanke against the Apostle The Lord openeth the heart of Lydia to attend to the things spoken of Paul Now if the naturall man by the light of his naturall reason receiveth not nor is thereby capable of the things of the Spirit of God contained in the Scripture but that they are foolishnesse unto him untill God open the heart and reveale those things by his Spirit as the Apostle saith then Reason cannot judge of Scripture by her owne light For what is Reasons light in a naturall man Surely darknesse it selfe unto Spiritâ—all things Ye were once darknesse saith the Apostle Darknesse in the very abstract Mans naturall understanding and Reason darknesse And therefore as Christ saith If the light that is in thee be darknesse how great is that darknesse And Rom. 8.5 They that are after the flesh tà tes sarkòs phronousin doe savour the things of the flesh but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit Spirituall things are as unsavory to a naturall mans Reason as wholesome meat is to an aguish palate They are unto him morÃa foolishnesse saith the Apostle And Rom. 8.6 The wisdome of the flesh is death and ekthrà emnity against God and it is not subject to the Law of God neither indeed can be Ye saith Ieremy Every man is brutish in his own knowledge Can you then hale the Scripture to the barre of mans naturall Reason which is brutish to be judged by it whether it be Gods word or no And David saith Surely men of low degree are vanity Yea say you Men of low degree but not so men of high degree of learning and parts But take all with you Surely men of low degrâ—e are vanity and men of high degree are a lye to be layd in the ballance they are altogether lighter then vanity What men of low degree vanity and men of high degre a lye Yea Surely yea altogether lighter then vanity it selfe being â—ayd in the ballance But in what ballance In the uneven ballance with the false Scales of your naturall Reason No but in the Ballance and with the weights of the Sanctuary your Reason must be weighed And this ballance of the Sanctuary is the Scripture If then your Reason must be weighed at the ballance of the Scripture and there be found too light yea lighter then vanity yea altogether lighter then vanity yea Surely altogether lighter then vanity yea a very lye then what weights can your Reason bring being altogether lighter then vanity it selfe whereby to weigh the Scriptures Or how shall Reason which is a lye with her unequall Ballance and false weights weigh verity it selfe But if all this will not put you out of conceit of your naturall Reason as an incomptent Judge of Scripture to be the word of God which must needs argue the truth of Scripture that mans Reason is blindnes darknes emnity against the truth brutish vanity a ly altogether lighter then vanity it self give me leave a little to put you to it You perswade your selfe that you can by the strength and light of your naturall Reason judge or weigh the Scripture whether it be Gods word and discover how firmely the Principles of Religion
your 16 th Sextion mentioned before which continueth from p. 59. to 116. wherein are sundry passages â—o this purpose whereof the last was one and the rest we shall touch as we meet with them And here I cannot though I said I would no more wonder but admire that such Speeches should flow down so fast from the Sea of Canterbury which is a mighty Catarrhact or distillation of the eye drowning the sight and flowing from such an abundant humour in the head as it is like to turne into a Dropsie possessing and putrifying the whole body which if not prevented by some remedy from hâ—aven must needs prove Epedemically mortall You are the first Antagonist of Iesuites that ever uttered such things and you might well have given them leave to utter such base Speeches of the holy Scriptures as more proper for a Jesuite then one pretending the Faith of a Protestant But the difference is not great nor matters is much which of you be the mouth having all one Spirit and being all one and the Same Church So as being the Metropolitan of that Church which with Rome is one and the Same you have the greater priviledge to speake in the language of that pregnant Mother who is so full of the names of Blasphemy against the word of God Now is not the Scripture so demonstratively evident in it selfe as to enforce assent What then shall doe it Probable Arguments from the light of Nature But Nature is blind as we shewed before of naturall Reason And againe how can that which is but probable confirme that which is truth For the Scripture is Truth it selfe As Christ saith Thy word is Truth Now there being strictly no proportion between Probability and Truth how can the Light of Nature which you say is but probable confirme that which is truth And we shewed also how the Naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God which things are contained in the Scripture But you adde Arguments from humane Testimony confirme the Scriptures to be Gods word That which is but humane cannot strengthen that which is Divine I receive not the Testimony of man saith Christ. So the Scripture is so farre above humane testimony that it can receive no strength from it no more then God can receive strength from the creature Gods word from mans word And the Scripture being Gods written word is above Mans bare word As Christ tells the Jewes who took Christ for a meere Man If ye beleeve not Moses his writings how shall you beleeve my words Thereby implying That Writings the Scripture are above mans words Againe humane testimony in Comparison to Gods word is but a lye For every man is a lyer Moreover in saying The Scripture is not evident enough to demonstrate it selfe to be the word of God and to enforce assent but being strenthened by Probable Arguments from the light of Nature and of humane Testimony 't is then wilfullnesse and pride to suspect it Here you set the light of Nature above the word of Grace probability above Truth humane Testimony above Divine Man above GOD. For Christ tells us that the Scriptures beare witnesse of him And you Say the Scriptures are not sufficient witnesses of themselves and so consequently of Christ without mans testimony So as hereby you disable the Scripture as being an incompetent witnesse of Christ because not evident enough in themselves without humane Testimony So as how you can cleare your selfe from blasphemy I see not But this is but one degree For you adde The light which is in Scripture is not light enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesse to it selfe Now you open your mouth a little wider to blaspemy But we shall have yet more of ths Suffe out of your Wardrobe Of which I may say this by the way That you bewray how grosly and palpably blind you are in discerning the Scriptures glorious brightnesse being like that Woman in Lipsius who being blind her selfe blamed the house she was in for being very darke So you because you are blind your selfe the god of this world having blinded your eyes therefore you blame the holy Scriptures of GOD for being darke not bright enough to to beare witnesse to it selfe Why Surely all light is Sui index sui Communicativum it is a witnesse to it selfe that it shineth So as all in the house doe see it yea though it be but the light of a Candle as Christ saith If therefore the Scriptures have not so much light in them as all may see it to shine forth then they have no light at all For if there be any light at all it will shew it selfe But this you will not stick to tell us anon that the Scripture hath no light in it selfe and therefore no mervaile if here you say the Light that is in it is not bright enough And you tell us here also That the Testimony of the Holy Ghost ordinarily is not so much as considerable in this Question Why What is the Question Is it not how or by what meanes we beleeve the Scriptures to be the word of GOD Is not this the Subject Question of this whole 16 th Section and which you handle throughout And this being so have you forgotten what you told us before of this beliefe that the Scripture is the word of GOD Namely that faith is the gift of God of God alone and an infused habit in respect whereof the Soule is meerely recipient and that the sole infuser is the Holy Ghost and Till the Spirit of God move the heart of man he cannot beleeve And now doe you come and tell us The Holy Ghost ordinarily is not so much as considerable in the Question Yea but here you tell us this is not the Question What then Namely how the Scripture may be proposed as a Credible Object fit for beliefe And for this you set us downe a rule of Proposall which must of necessity take its rise from the Tradition or Authority of the Present Church Whereof we shall heare more anon But by your leave this is not the Question but the other For this your manner of Proposall you put it not as a Question but as an a'Ãtema a Question begged not to be argued and disputed upon as the nature of a Question is to be but you doe dogmatÃzein obtrude and force upon us a novell opinion of your owne devising without proofe of Reason Argument or Authority from the Scripture And therefore we deny your Question or Position as Heterodox or a Paradox contrary to the truth of God word which is the onely rule of determining all Questions in Divinity about faith whereof this is not the least How or by what meanes a man comes to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God Now for the determining herof you would tye us to the one only manner of Proposing the Scripture as a Credible object fit for beliefe and that is necessarily to
your Authority and Commendation should be brought to read the Scriptures and therein should find many Prophecies and among the rest how there should come False Prophâ—ts being Wolves in Sheeps Clothing pretending holinesse but Persecuting Gods Saints pretending Religion but oppessing Gods word pretending to be Christ vicâ—royes but tyrannizing over his people and such as should Apostatise from the Faith and set up Doctrines of Devils as in abstinence from certaine Meates and Marriage at certaine times and how Christ and his Apostles were humble and despised the world being crucified unto it and how they which were proud pompous Lords claiming to be their Successors follow none of their steps neither in diligent preaching nor practise of a holy life are such Antichrists as the Scripture hath foretold and how in the last dayes perillous times should come when men should be Selfe-lovers covetous boastors proud blasphemers unholy without naturall affection implacable covenant-breakers false accusers incontinent fierce despisers of them that are good Traitors heady high-minded lovers of pleasures more then lovers of God Having a forme of Godlinesse but denying the power thereof with many other like things which when they come to compare with the State of the present times and especially of the present Church and chiefly of the Prelates themselves and shall find most of these Prophecies fulfilled in these present times they will certainly hereupon conclude that these be those last dayes and perillous times wherin these things so long agoe foretold doe clearely shew that certainly the Scriptures are the word of God The next thing I note here is that you Say a man so probably led must compare the Scripture with it selfe and other writings What other writings I pray you shall he compare the Scriptures with Shall humane writings light him a Candle to shew him the Sun shining at noon day But thus humane testimony comes in for a Second Inducer And for all your previous inducement you must still at last joyne some thing of man with Scripture Well what 's the third Ordinary Grace And this with the Authority of the present Church may beget in a man an ordinary beliefe that Scripture is the word of God As it seemes such ordinary Grace brought King Agrippa to beleeve the Prophets to be the word of God yet for all that he was but almost perswaded to become a Christian. And this Ordinary Grace is it seems that Holy Ghost which you told us of before The Fourth is morall inducement Well admit this bring him to a morall beliefe or opinion The Fifth is a reasonable perswasion by the voyce of the Church Well what theâ— After all this the Scripture gives greater and higher reasons of Credibility to it selfe then Tradition alone could give Here 's then the upshot of all as we noted before you by these steps advance the Scripture to a Credibility So as all this while you have walkt the round and gone in a Circle and end just where you began for you began at Probability and end in Credibility whereas the Scriptures were credible at least that is such as might be beleeved before you taught this new way to come to the beliefe of them So as this your Conclusion comes to just nothing Only you seem to attribute some thing to the Scripture being assisted with those other inducements wherein it surpasseth your Tradition alone Which is such a comparison and commendation as you could not devise the like to abase the Credit of the Scripture But to conclude What a Tedious Dispute you make here with the Jesuite about that which when you have done all you can will never bring a man upon any sure grounds so much as to beleeve that the Scripture is the word of God much lesse to bring him to Saving faith in Christ. But what doe I speake of Saving faith Alas that 's no worke for your pen. You are for a Scholasticall Dispute here which is so jejune and barren that many Scholasticks would hisse it out of their Schooles much more Divines out of the Divinity Schooles as indeed nothing pertaining to true Divinity but to a Spoyling through Philosophy and vaine deceit as the Apostle Speakes But the summe of all your inducements the Prime whereof must necessarily be your present Churches Authority amounts to this That men being by a bond of necessity tyed to this your Church as without which he cannot come to beleeve Scripture to be Gods word and without this beliefe no faith of Salvation and your Tradition with all other helps cannot bring a man to that beliefe when all is done the Conclusion is that according to your Tradition no man can come to be Saved So as thus by this your new Doctrines you overturne the Foundation of Faith by the very roots leaving no footing for faith to stand upon whereby a man may have any hope of Salvation But I shew'd you before a short and sure way for a man to come to this beliefe and not onely so farre as to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God but to beleeve that he hath his part of Salvation in that word And this way is by hearing the word of God preached For Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God And this faith being the Saving faith in Christ as it apprehends all the Promises of God in the Scripture to be true and to belong to him so it comprehends the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God And this this word of God preached and heard is that voyce of the Church of Christ or rather Christs owne voyce in the Church calling men yea and instrumentally causing Gods Spirit effectually working in and by the word to beleeve unto righteousnesse and to confesse to Salvation whatsoever is written in the Scripture to be most true as being the word of God himselfe And besides this true Christians in all ages never beleeved and Authority Tradition voyce of men simply to be any necessary prime inducement to beleeve so much as the Scriptures to be the word of God L. p. 84. That divine light which the Scripture no question hath in it self is not kindled till these helps come Thy word is a Light So David A Light Therefore it is as much a manifestation to it selfe as to other things which it shewes but still not till the Candle be lighted not till there hath been a preparing instruction what light it is till Tradition of the Church and Gods grace put to it have cleared his understanding So Tradition of the present Church is the first morall motive to beleeve P. These words confirme your former with a little illustration A divine Light here you confesse to be in the Scripture But you meane some dimme Light At the best not bright enough not sufficient to shew it selfe to be the word of God And here That Light whatever it is is not kindled till these helps come 'T is but a
is in the Scripture such a light as is of force to breed faith Nay you have already again and again and I know not how often expresly and flatly denyed that there is in Scripture so much light as of it self hath force to breed so much faith as to beleeve it to be the word of God And this was all the Question with you but even now But how comes in this Negative Not to make a perfect knowledge The Question was not all this while whether the Scripture had so full a light in it as to make a perfect knowledge But seeing you took this in to cast a myst before mens eyes that they may not so easily discern your jugling trick in answering A.C. and yet keeping your credit as if you herein maintained no other thing then what they Divines of the Church of England have held that which you say the Jesuite pretends I will answere this too That all Orthodox Divines do hold and that according to the Scripture that there is in it such a full and cleare light as to make a perfect knowledge For First there is a knowledge perfect and 2 ly we have no other Schoolmaster to teach it but the Scripture and 3 ly this perfect knowledge is required of Christians Be not children in understanding saith the Apostle but in understanding be men So the English hath it But the Originall is tais dè phresì téleio gÃnesthe In understanding or wisdome be ye perfect So Heb. 6.1 Wherfore leaving the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ let us be caried on to perfection That is to perfection of Knowledge in the mystery of Christ. Now this knowledge is no where but in the Scripture and so this perfection no way to be attained unto but by the Scripture as the onely rule and meanes thereof So the Apostle to Timothy saith From a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto Salvation through faith which is in Christ Iesus All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousnes that the man of God may be perfect thorowly furnished unto all good works So as Tertullian might well say Adoro plenitudinem Scripturarum I adore or admire the fullnesse of the Scriptures It is a Fountaine yea an Ocean of Knowledge And if we cannot attaine to that full perfection of Knowledge in this life which is to be found in the Scripture it is defectus vasis non fontis the defect is in the vessell mans soule For we know but in part and we prophecy in part saith the Apostle and not in the fountaine the Holy Scripture which is like Iacobs Well full of Water but deep so as every one hath not such a lage vessell and long line as can draw forth a full measure of knowldge out of it yet he may draw for a plenitude or fullnesse of the vessell according to its quantity and the proportion of Faith given to every man yet not so exactly full by reason of our infirmity and in-capacity of our vessell which is partly of a leaking condition plenus rimarum as he said full of cracks and a great deale we lose in the very drawing of it up as a bucket doth of water before it come to the toppe So as the defect is not in the Well wherein it was but now over head and eares as we Say under water and fuller then it could hold but in the bucket in bringing it up or containing and retaining of it L. p. 87. Faiths evidence is not so cleare for it is of things not seen Heb. 11.1 in regard of the object and in regard of the subject that sees it is in enigmate in a glasse or darke speaking Now God doth not require a full demonstrative knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word and therefore in his Providence hath kindled in it no light for that but he requires our faith of it and such a certaine demonstration as may fit that And for that he hath left sufficient light in Scripture to Reason and Grace meeting when the Soule is morally prepared by the Tradition of the Church P. Speaking Still of that Faith whereby a man beleeves the Scripture to be the word of God which Faith is Historicall here you confound it with the Saving justifying Faith just as the Papists doe For as they so you here alledge for your faiths unclean evidence Heb. 11.1 where the Apostle describes Faith thus Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen By which very description it is cleare and evident that he speakes not of that Historicall Faith of Scripture common to all men but of the Saving Faith peculiar to Gods Elect Tit. 1.1 and given to the Saints Jude 3. which notwithstanding comprehends in it the Historicall Faith of Scripture to be the word of God and that in a higher degree and measure then any Reprobate can have even as the Rationall Soule of man being it comprehends in it the Sensitive faculty in a more excellent manner then it is in the bruit beasts and the Vegetative faculty in a more excellent manner then it is in the plants because as the sensitive and vegetative qualities of the soule of man being comprehended under the Rationalls are subjected to the rule and command of Reason and so doe participate in some kind of the very nature of the Rationall faculty man being both moving and seeing and hearing and smelling and tasting and touching not as a bruit beast but as a Reasonable creature So Historicall Faith being comprehended under the Saving and Justifying Faith in a true beleever it is in him more excellent and advanced to a higher pitch of perfection then it is or can be in a naturall man so as it participates so farre of that plerophorÃa tes pÃsteoes that full assurance of Saving Faith as that it not onely apprehends and beleeves the Scripture to be the word of God but doth beleeve it so certainly and firmly and with such an affiance and affection as that the Beleever will rather dye then for the terrours of death it selfe be brought to deny this truth And what is this trow you but a full and certaine demonstrative knowledge that perswades him to this But for This Historicall Faith in a meere naturall man or one unregenerate though he be sufficiently convinced in his Conscience that the Scripture is the word of God yet he hath neither so much affiance in it nor affection to it as that he wil be content to loose life and all if need be for the maintenance of this truth This full Demonstration he wants But for that Faith which the Apostle speakes of and describes Heb. 11.1 which you make to be your Historicall Faith and the evidence of it in regard of the objest not so cleare as being of things not seene it is
requisite here a little to consider the Apostles words First Faith saith he is e'lpizomenon vpostasis the substance or subsistence or confidence at the Apostle useth the word elswhere of things hoped for And as some well expound it such a Faith as causeth the things hoped for so to subsist in our hearts not onely in a sure expectation but also in a degree of possession and fruition as if they were present with us And this object of things hoped for argues plainly that this Faith is not your Historicall Faith to beleeve simply that the Scripture is the word of God but the true lively and Saving Faith which hath not onely for its common object the Scripture but for its more proper and peculiar object Christ and the Promises of God in him contained in the Scriptures which are those things hoped for here Whereas your Historicall Faith as that of the Papists as both Vega and others affirme looks onely to the common object the Scriptures but not specially on the Promises therein contained This I say is the proper worke and object that Saving Faith doth chiefly exercise it selfe upon Faith is the substance of things hoped for Secondly it is pragmaton elegkos ou blepoménon the evidence or Demonstration of things not seen Which things not seen are also the proper object of Saving Faith wherof it is the evidence And those are eternall things in heaven as the Apostle sheweth The things which are not seen are eternall So Rom. 8.25 If we hope for that which we see not then doe we with patience abide for it But now your meere Historicall Faith which beleeves in generall that the Scripture is the word of God looks no farther then things that are seen But for the Faith which is the evidence of things not seen is the evedence of it therefore not so cleare because it is of things not seen Surely had you such an evidence of thosâ— things not seen as Faith is you would not goe on thus blindly in speaking of divine things which it appeares are farre above out of your sight Is Faith the evidence of things not seen and therefore not of so cleare evidence in regard of the Octject Nay certainly being an evidence of things not seen it argues the quick and piercing cleare eye of faith whereby it so clearely seeth things not seen as it is a cleare evidence of them As Chrysostome upon these words commenteth poÃa lèxis saith he What a speech or expression is this elegkos an evidence Whereupon he Saith That faith is a farre clearer and surer evidence of things not seen then the eye is of a visible object before it And you have here forgotten what you writ but in the next page before That beliefe is firmer then any knowledge can be Which it seemes you mean as the Papists doe who to elude certainty of faith doe say That Faith is certain ratione objecti in respect of the Object the Scripture but not ratione Subjecti of the Beleever himselfe Otherwise how doe you say here that Faiths evidence is not so cleare as being of things not seen But I conceive the reason to be because you beleeve no further then you see So as what things you doe not see with your bodily eye you have not any such cleare evidence of by your faith as if they were present before your Eyes Thus you may see could you see what all your Faith comes to But that faith whereof the Apostle there speakes and elswhere hath an eye more piercing then the eye of an Eagle For by this faith as by a most cleare Perspective we so see things afarre off eveâ— in the highest heavens as if they were present before us Thus the beleeving Saints in the Old Testament by the eye of this same Faith illustrated by so many examples in the same Chapter did See the promises afarre off and were perswaded of them â—nd imbraced them By this â—aith Moses forsook Aegypt not fearing the wrath of the King for he indured as seeing him that is invisible And by this Faith Abraham though afarre off saw Christs day and rejoyced As Stephen at his stoning saw Iesus Christ standing at the right hand of God This you will Say was with the eyes of his body miraculously 'T is true But I will Say again Stephen with his bodily eyes at that time saw not Christ more certainly nor more clearely then a true beleever by the eye of his faith sees him standing at the right hand of God as a mighty Saviour Advocate Judge Protector Avenger of his People when so used as Stephen was So as the faith of all true beleevers being one and the Same it fully agreeth with that Difinition of the Apostle Faith is the Substance of things hoped for the Evidence of things not seen therefore it hath an eye that sees those things not seen more clearely then I dare say your Lordships eye seeth when you look upon the Kings Countenance Smiling upon you For you think you see now clearely the object before you when indeed you see it not clearely but through a false glasse of your imagination as apprehending your chiefe happinesse to consist in that Object the Kings favour which may easily be overclowded Whereas God saith Cursed be the man that trusteth in man and maketh flesh his arme and whose heart departeth from the Lord. For though he may flourish for a time yet he shal be like the Heath in the Desert and shall not see when good cometh Againe this Faith of yours Say you is not of such cleare evidence in regard of the Subject that sees it is in enigmate or darke speaking We shewed but now how this Historicall Faith is different according to the Subject in which it is in the Reprobate or in the Elect beleever For in the true beleever being comprehended under the Saving Faith it is so much both the more cleare and infallible in beleeving the Scripture to be the word of God as wherein all along he finds Christ in whom all the Promises wherwith as so many Sweet Roses that Garden is set and strowed or as so many Starres shining in that Firmament are yea and Amen to the glory of God the Father And thus to every true beleever the Scripture is the sure word of God and more especially sure to him in all the Promises of it Thus Davids Faith tells him The Testimony of the Lord is sure Thy Testimonies are very sure All his Commandements are sure So Esay The sure mercies of David Thus the Apostles were sure We beleeve and are sure c. Now are we sure c. And Paul It is of Faith by Grace that the Promise might be sure to all the seed And Peter We have a most sure word of Prophesie Thus the whole word of God with the Promises therein are sure to a true beleever both as being of God and belonging
to all the faithfull As the Apostle Saith Whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope But on the other side this beliefe that the Scripture is the word of God being in a Reprobate or wicked man the stronger it is in a perswasion and conviction that it is Gods word and so a word of truth the greater terrour it strikes into him when he considers of those fearefull judgements punishments and torments of hell therein denounced against all impenitent persons As Felix trembled when he heard Paul reasoning of judgement to come And Agrippa said to Paul en olÃgo somewhat or almost thou perswadest me to be a Christian when Paul had said unto him Beleevest thou the Prophets I know that thou beleevest So that a wicked man may be throwly convinced in his Conscience that the Scripture is the word of God he may certainly be perswaded of it and that hoes en horámati as a thing visibly before him and he apprehends it as too true But that place of the Apostle We see here dì ainìgmatos as through a darke Saying it is not to be applyed to this Faith that is in a wicked man For the Apostle there speakes of true beleevers We Saith he now doe see through a glasse darkly but then face to face now I know in part but then shall I know even as also I am known So as there he speakes of the estate of the godly here comparatively to their estate of glory hereafter and that concerning their knowledge and spirituall vision of God here and hereafter Here we doe with Moses see but Gods back parts in comparison to that we shall see when we shall see him face to face here we know him at the best but imperfectly but then we shall know even as we are knowne in full perfection And yet so great and glorious is our knowledge of God in the State of Grace that the Apostle saith We all with open face beholding as in a glasse the glory of the Lord are changed into the same Image from glory to glory even as by the spirit of the Lord. So glorious is the Image of Christ in every new-Creature or regenerate man had men but eyes to see it But this by the way On the other side againe as some naturall and morall men may have a certaine evidence of an Historicall Faith thus farre that the Scripture is the word of God and so he trembleth at it So others again and such as think themselves great Clerks and glorious Priests may perhaps see but en skotómati blindly in a brainsick miorim or giddinesse so as their head swimming with wâ—imses the eyes of their understanding being darkened or rather blinded with the god of this world they imagine the world goes round with them and while they so much dispute of the Authority of the present Church in clearing a mans understanding to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God the conclusion is that they can bring never a good Evidence to prove that themselves have any faith at all You goe on and Say Now God doth not require a full demonstrative knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word and therefore in his Providence hath kindled in it no light for that but he requires our faith of it and such a certaine demonstration as may fit that When shall vaine words have an end as Iob Speaks You have reproched the Scripture these 10 times and therein blasphemed God and are not ashamed as he Speaks in another Case God doth not require Say you a full demonstrative knowledge in us that the Scripture is his word No Doth he not But he requireth such a faith in us which hath in it a full demonstration of knowledge For such is Saving Faith whereof we formerly Spake it is a demonstration of things not seen it is a plerophorÃa a full assurance Now whereon is this faith grounded Is it not grounded upon the Scripture And if this full demonstration of faith be grounded on the Scripture is there not such a full demonstrative knowledge in the Scripture For alwayes the Foundation must have a full latitude and depth proportionable to beare up the building which is layd upon it Faith then being a full demonstration and the Scripture being the foundation of it the Scripture then must have in it a full demonstrative knowledge and if such a full demonstrative knowledge be in the Scripture God requires in us also such a full demonstrative knowledge as is sutable to that full demonstration of Faith As the Apostle saith I know whom I have beleeved And our Saviour joynes knowledge and faith together saying That ye may know and beleeve And so the Apostle speaking of beleevers saith Which beleeve and know the truth And that which in other places is attributed to faith is Ioh. 13.3 attributed to knowledge This is life eternall that they may know thee the onely true God and Iesus Christ whom â—hou hast sent And the act of beleeving is typed out by an act of the eye in seeing to shew that beleeving is a seeing and knowing As Joh. 3.14 15. As Moses lifted up the Serpent in the wildernesse even so must the Sonne of Man be lifted up that whosoever beleeveth in him should not perish but have eternall life Where beleeving in Christ lifted up upon his Crosse hath relation to those in the wildernesse who being stung with the fiery Serpents looked up upon the brazen Serpent upon the Pole which Moses by Gods appointment lifted up and looking upon it they lived There being then such an affinity or rather unity or union between Faith and knowledge Faith being a certain knowledge of the thing beleeved which is the Scripture and faith being begotten by the word of God which is therfore call'd the word of Faith both because it is the seed of Faith and the ground wherin it is rooted and every seed having in it the nature of that which springeth of it it necessarily followeth that there is in the Scripture a full demonstrative knowledge and consequently God requireth in us such a full demonstrative knowledge as whereby we are fully assured and know certainly that the Scripture is the very word of God And this full demonstrative knowledge is in true Faith which apprehending and imbracing Christ the beleever by the same Faith doth know assuredly that that Scripture by the heareing wherof preached he came to beleeve is the very word of God And there is such a necessity of this full demonstrative knowledge to be in every beleever it is both de esse of the beâ—ing of a beleever and also de bene esse of his well-beeing That it is of the beeing of a beleever we have proved out of Scripture because it is of the very beeing of Faith And secondly it is necessary for
the well-beeing of a Christian. A true Christians life is full of affliction more then other men For this he hath the greatest need of comfort Now wherein hath a Christian most solid comfort Surely in the Scriptures David a man of afflictions can tell us this by his own experience Remember Lord Saith he the word unto thy Servant wherein thou hast caused me to hope This is my Comfort in my affliction for thy word hath quickned me And v. 52. I remembred thy judgements of old ô Lord and have comforted my selfe And v. 54. Thy Statutes have been my Songs in the house of my pilgrimage Gods word is that which supports Faith in prayer to God in affliction As v. 76. Let I pray thee thy mercifull kindnesse be for my coâ—fort according to thy word unto thy Servant And v. 80. Let my heart be sound in thy Statutes that I be not ashamed And v. 92. Except thy Law had been my delights I should then have perished in my Affliction And that excellent Psalme which Aug. so much admires and not without cause calling it Magnificum Psalmum it is his own word is full of such meditations and consolations grounded upon Gods word And the Apostle also sheweth this where he saith Whaâ—soever things are written aforetime were written for our learning that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope Now how could a Christian in affliction comfort himselfe in the Scriptures had he not a full demonstrative knowledge by Faith that the Scripture is Gods word and therefore all his promises therein are most true and in Christ yea and Amen I say a full demonstrative knowledge by Faith which is ' élenkos the demonstration of things not seen as before Not that this full demonstrative knowlâ—dge in â—aith hath in it the full perfection of Degrees which is not attained in this life but it is such a full demonstrative knowledge such a sure trust and confidence in God according to his word such a hope in his Promises in Christ that although his â—aith be sometimes assaulted with temptations of feares and doubtings arising either from infirmities and corruptions within or from Satans suggestions without yet the beleever sticks closse and will not let go his hold but as Iob saith though God kill him yet will he trust in him Then then being so your assertion is very bold and blasphemous in saying God in his Providence hath kindled in the Scripture no light for that namely full demonstrative knowledge wherof we have made sufficient demonstration to the contrary And your own next words will confute you for you say He requires our faith of it and such a certain demonstration as may fit that Doth he so And what is that faith but wherin there is such a certain and demonstrative knowledge as gives a man full assurance that the Scripture is the word of God And this is that faith which God especially râ—quireth in hiâ— people as without which they cannot beleeve unto righteousnes and confesse unto Salvation But this is not that faith with its certain demonstration which you mean For as you adde yours is such a faith as is begotten of Reason and ordinary Grace which is ever the burthen of your Song where the soule is morally prepared by the Tradition of the Church Of which enough before Neither can your morall faith probably perswaded by your Tradition ever become to be élegkos a demonstrative assurance that Scripture is Gods word So as hereby you overthrow both the beeing and well-beeing of a Christian and leave him stript of all means and hope of Salvation and consolation by the Scripture L. p. 88. Hooker gives a very sensible Demonstration It is not the word of God which doth or possibly can assure us that we doe well to think it is his word For if any one Book of Scripture did give testimony to it yet still the Scripture would require another to give credit unto it So that unlesse beside the Scripture there were some thing that might assure c. And this he acknowledgeth saith Buerly is the Authority of Gods Church Certainly Hooker gives a true and sensible Demonstration P. First for your Author here alledged he was we all know not onely a Creature but a Champion for your Hierarchy and Ceremonies And besides that his Book was guelt in some things before it could have its passeport to travaile abroad However as you say of Others so I of him he was but a private man And if you take his words to be the Doctrine of the Church of England you may seeing the Jesuite doth so approve of it as also your selfe doth Well let Hookers words be so as you alledge them yet give me leave to detect in them a mixture of some absurdity and some impiety together As in these words It is not the word which doth or possibly can assure us that we doe well to think it is his word And so in that sense which is the onely sense a sensible man and sound Christian can make 't is true that the Scripture neither doth nor possibly can assure us that we do well to think onely it is his word For as the Scripture cannot lye so it cannot assure us that we do well when we come short of our duty as in thinking which is but opinion when we should beleeve which is Faith For the Scripture requires a firme Faith in us and approveth not of thinking as sufficient But now for his sensible Demonstration which is this That if any one book of Scripture did give testimony to all yet still the Scripture would require another to give testimony to it and so we can never come to assurance this way I answere The Scripture is a compleat body in it selfe and every part of it an uniforme and homogeneall member to the making up of this body So as the Scripture is to be taken first in the whole lumpe or body as bearing full witnesse to it selfe and every part or Book of Scripture hath a witnesse in it selfe and for it selfe and for the rest too there being such a sweet and full harmony in the whole and all the parts Gods Spirit speaking and breathing in it as the Animall Spirits in mans body moving the whole and every part and shewing that it is Gods word And we must never in this notion fever the Spirit of God from the Scripture his owne word which it filleth in every part as the life-blood doth the veines So as there is not a Book of Scripture wherein the Majesty of GOD and his Wisdome and Goodnesse and Righteousnesse and Holinesse doe not in some degree more or lesse shine forth And Mr Hooker might as well have reasoned thus It is not the whole frame of mans body that can perswade us that we doe well to thinke that it is a mans body for though one member by its motion doth beare witnesse to the rest that they are
Preachings by word of mouth of the Lawfully sent Pastors and Doctors of the Church are able to breed in us Divine and Infallible Faith Nay are the very word of God So A. C. expresly And no lesse then so have some accounted of their owne Factious words to Say no more then as the word of God †in the margent at this marke For the freeing of Factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty In the Godly Author of the Late Newes from Ipswitch p. 5. P. That the Sermons and Preachings by word of mouth of the Lawfully sent Pastors and Doctors of the Church are able to breed in men Divine and Infallible Faith being according to the Rule and Evidence of Scripture as true Preaching is what good Christian makes a doubt though you deride it I pray you you that are the great Rabbi and Champion of the present Church of England What Say you of the Apostles words How shall they call on him in whom they have not beleeved And how shall they beleeve in him of whom they have not heard And how shall they heare without a Preacher And how shall they Preach except they be Sent So then Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God But we shall heare your judgement by and by As for A. C. with whom you yoak the precise party in the same sentence surely were he no Jesuite nor illegitimate Priest but either a Sound Christian or a Lawfully sent Pastor and Doctor of the Church of Christ the words rightly meant and understood are most true I remember I have read a Story of a Grecian State I take it of Athens where when a vitious Senator in Court on a time gave very good Counsell for the Common-Weale they approved of the Counsell but would not have it Registred in his name but caused an honest man to utter the same forme of words in Court and so under his name it was recorded So I may here Let a good Christian or if you will one of the precise party you mention utter these words and not A. C. and then the sense wil be good and true And by your own words we shall convince you of folly by and by Now for the precise party in the Reformed Churches doe you not meane those who are most reformed in their life and conversation and most refined from the drosse and dregges of all Deformed Churches Superstitions and Idolatries in the pretended worship of God and from all grosse errours in Faith and Doctrine Surely those you must and do meane as whom you most deadly hate and therefore in your wretched malice do couple them with A. C. Of which precise party Iesus Christ is the head that pure and precise Nazarite and Seperatist from all sin and errour with all the Apostles Prophets and Martyrs And what do they say No lesse say you then A. C And what faith A.C. Expresly that Sermons c. as before are the expresse word of God And how prove you that this precise party saith no lesse Nay you say more that they account their own Factious words no lesse to say no more then as the word of God To Say no more Nay surely you have said enough if it be true But if not true a great deale too much Well true or not true 't is enough you Say it and so you make this precise party to be ten times worse then the Jesuite And so you would have it For say you the Jesutie saith Sermons are the very word of God but the Precise That their own factious words are What The word of God No but As the word of God Why do you call them factious words because they are As the word of God Doe you not know that true Preachers words should be hoes logâ—â—â—eou as the Oracles or word of God as Peter speakes such words as become Sound Doctrine Sound Speech that cannot be condemned but unjustly by such as doe heterodidaskalein teach strange Doctrines and agree not to wholsome words keeping the Forme of Sound words But you charge here the precise party with factious words How prove you that For Si sat est accusasse quis innocens erit If your single Accusation be sufficient who shal be Innocent But you bring your proofe è Scriptis good evidence sure What 's that †For the freeing of factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty But where do you find these factious words In the Godly Author of the late Newes from Ipswich Well then here be 2 things obserbable 1. The Matter 2. the Author 1. The Matter charged The freeing of factious and Silenced Ministers is termed The restoring of Gods word to its Liberty And who are these factious and Silenced Ministers Namely a matter of about an hundred godly and Conscientious Ministers in Norfolke Suffolk Essex Kent Surrey and other Shâ—res who were in one Summer and the most in the Circuit of one Visitation some silenced some suspended some also excommunicated from Church and Chimney ab Aris ac Focis aqua igni and with their Wives and Children exposed to beggery and all calamity Wherefore They were factious Wherein They would not obâ—y and conforme to the Orders of their Ordinary What Orders For the reading in their severall Congregations the Book for Sports on the Lords dayes For the setting up of Altars in their Chancels For the causing of their People never accustomed to it before to come up to the Altar and there receive the Communion or the Lords Supper on their knees For these and the like which they refused to do they are doomed Factious But the Ministers aledged these were new Impositions praeter praescriptum Legis besides the prescript Law or Statute so as their obedience should have incurred a Premunire No matter for that They are a sort of factious fellows and ringleaders of Puritan-people as you apologised in the Starre-Chamber and so being once silenced 't is too late to talk Yet these men were all Conformists to the Discipline by Law established and lived peaceably How then were they Factious Why surely they would not observe Orders They would notwithstanding an Order to the Contrary preach twice every Lords day They would open the Catechisme-points and not content themselves with the bare words of Question and Answere as it is in the Booke they would hold the people so long with their preaching in the Afternoons that they had no time left to goe to their Laudable Sports nor could the people enjoy their pleasures with a quiet Conscience the Ministers would so trouble them with pressing the Sanctification of the Sabbath according to the 4th Commandement and the like Well then diligent Preachers they were and they preached the word of God by expounding and applying it which we shall heare you by and by to commend if we may beleeve your words when we see your deeds contrary So
the Scripture doth suo jure vindicare challenge as her own right and which no man can take from her And if Theologie must borrow or begge this principle Of whom Of the Tradition of the Church Beware of that For then the Borrower should be servant to be Lender as Solomon saith And to Begge it were worse But if Theologie have this principle of her owne and it in the Scriptures possession what need she goe either to begge or borrow it and that of those who can neither give or lend it And if this be a Principle that Scripture 〈◊〉 the word of God What use of your Church Tradition For Principles are not to be denied But you denying that this can be beleeved without the Tradition of the present Church doe first induce unto it then you are one of those that deny Principles And Contra negantem Principia non est disputandum we are not to dispute against him that denyeth Principles but in this case to hold him as an Heretick and to deale with him as the Apostle admonisheth A man that is an Hereticke after the first and second Admonition reject knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth being a'utokatákritos selfe-condemned L. p. 105. The evidence of supernaturall Truths which Divinity teaches appeares not so manifest as that of the Naturall though in themselves more sure and infallible P. Appeares not true indeed to a naturall man Here you speake by experience But to the spirituall man this evidence appeares very clearely for as the Apostle saith The Naturall man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishnesse unto him Neither can â—e know them because they are spiritually discerned But he that is spirituall judgeth all things as Solomon also saith Evill men understand not judgement But they that seeke the Lord understand all things L. p. 106. Faith is a mixed Act of the Will and the understanding and the Will inclines the understanding to yeeld full approbation to that whereof it sees not full proof Not but that there is full proofe of them But because the maine grounds which prove them are concealed from our view and folded up in the unrevealed Councel of God God in Christ resolving to bring mankind to their last happinesse by Faith and not by Knowledge That so the weakest among men may have their way to blessednesse open P. 'T is true that Faith being the life of the soule anima animae as Aug. speaks doth informe and quicken all the faculties thereof as the Will Understanding Reason Affections so as the Will doth no more incline the Vnderstanding to assent this being the opinion of those Schoolmen that hold the Will to be the seat of Faith as others do hold the Vnderstanding Then the Vnderstanding doth the Will or Reason the Affections But Faith being that Grace which quickneth the whole soule and in it all the faculties as aforesaid it is this Faith Principally that inclineth all the whole soule with all its faculties to yeeld their unanimous assent unto it And yet I deny not a mutuall reciprocation and interchangeable cooperation which is between these faculties as in the naturall man so in the spirituall man regenerate by faith For as in the naturall man somtimes the Vnderstanding inclines the Will somtimes the Will the Vnderstanding sometimes Reason inclines the Affections and somtimes the Affections incline Reason and that oftentimes with great violence to a wrong object the like working there is among the sanctified faculties of the soule Regenerate somtimes the Vnderstanding inclining the Will somtimes the Will the Vnderstanding and sometimes the Affections incline both as the Apostle saith speaking of zeale for God Whether we be besides our selves it is to God or whether we be sober it is for your Cause For the love of Christ constraineth us And the affections of the Apostle towards Christ were so strong in him that they carryed his Vnderstanding Will and Reason along with them with strong hand when notwithstanding he was told of dangers yea bonds abiding him at Ierusalem and earnestly desired of his Friends not to goe thither he answered What meane ye to weep and to breake mine heart For I am ready not to be bound onely but also to dye at Ierusalem for the Name of the Lord Iesus And Christ himselfe was so full of holy Zeale and strong Affections as he was carryed with a wonderfull violence of them insomuch as they said of him that he was madde And his friends one time went to lay hold on him saying he was besides himselfe And many of Christ his Servants his Ministers being carryed with a strong love of Christ and zeale for his glory expressed in their courragious witnessing of the truth against wicked men the enemies thereof although their Vnderstanding apprehend the danger and their Will could be content to live in peace yet the Affection here carries all along with it and they willingly follow because the same Faith guides and carries all along with it whence it comes to passe that the affection here to Christ and to truth being as it were the Leader of the rest the Vnderstanding Reason and Iudgement least appearing in the sence of the world men are thereupon so apt and prone to Censure such Ministers of indiscretion But this may shew the inward opperation of the faculties of a regenerate soule how one works upon another reciprocally and one inclines another somtimes the superiour faculties the inferiour and somtimes the inferiour the superiour but Faith is the principall agent working in and inclining all It is not then the Will that alwayes inclines the Vnderstanding but the Grace of Faith which infused doth at once both illuminate incline and draw both the Will and Vnderstanding to rest in the saving truth of God apprehended by Faith This Faith I say doth so illuminate the whole soule with all its faculties as that it selfe brings meat in the mouth as ye say even a full proofe in it selfe of the things beleeved so as now not onely the affiance of the Will but the affiance and certain knowledge of the Vnderstanding doe rest themselves in the cleare evidence which Faith it selfe bringeth with it which evidence hath the ample and sure Testimony both of the word of God and of the Spirit of God whose worke it is For this saving Faith never goes alone but is both ushered in and wrought and accompanied with the word and Spirit of Christ. For so soon as Faith is conceived in the soule it unites to Christ and so it hath communion with Christ together with his Spirit mimediately so as both the Will and the Vnderstanding and the whole soule heart and affections so soon as Faith possesseth them which Faith is a plerophoria full assurance of the things beleeved and a cleare evidence of them though not seen as before is shewed there is withall exhibited both in and with Faith a full sufficient
proof of the things beleeved How say you then that the maine grounds which prove them are concealed from our view and folded up in the unrevealed Councel of God And what main grounds I pray you be those Can you tell Or doe you speake in the Clouds that you may seem to say something which you understand not For certainly this Mystery of Faith is concealed from your understanding as appeareth by your darke and clowdy words And is that unrevealed councell of God the object of our Faith Cometh not Faith by hearing of the word of God wherein God hath revealed his will to us Or doth the Tradition of your present Church lead you to beleeve such sencelesse speculations Indeed the Apostle saith That in Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdome and knowledge Hid that is layd up and contained as a Treasure But not hid from his true Church and faithfuâ—l people as the Apostle saith If our Gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them that beleeve not least the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ should shine unto them And againe Eye hath not seen nor eare heard neither have entred into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love him But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit But where Search the Scriptures saith Christ for in them ye thinke to have eternall life and they are they which testifie of me so to this purpose the Apostle speaketh excellently Ephes 3.4 5 6. and 1.9.17 18 19 and in many other places But to you it seems these things are hid and folded up and therfore no mervaile you know not what you say nor wherof you affirme As the Apostle saith of some Who were turned aside from Charity out of a pure heart and a good Conscience and of Faith unfained unto vaine â—angling Desiring to be teachers of the Law understanding neither what they say nor wherof they affirme Let therfore the Prophet Esay read you a Lecture Stay your selves and wonder Cry ye out and cry They are drunken but not with wine They stagger but not with strong drinke For the Lord hath powred on them the spirit of deep sleep and hath closed your eyes The Prophets and your Rulers the Seers hath he covered And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a Book that is sealed which men deliver to one that is learned saying Read this I pray thee And he saith I cannot for it is sealed And the Book is delivered to him that is not learned saying Read this I pray thee And he saith I am not learned Wherfore the Lord said Forasmuch as this people draw neere me with their mouth and with their lippes doe honour me but have removed their heart farre from me and their feare towards me is taught by the Precepts of men Therfore behold I will proceed to doe a mervailous worke amongst this people even a marvailous work and a wonder for the wisdome of their wise men shall perish and the understanding of their prudent men shal be hid Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their councel from the Lord and their works are in the darke and they say who seeth us And who knoweth us surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the Potters Clay Loe my Lord I hope this word is not folded up if to you it be you shall one day both see and feele it more clearly and sensibly fulfilled But you goe on God in Christ say you resolving to bring Mankind to their last happinesse by Faith and not by Knowledge What by a blind Faith For by Faith and not by Knowledge is all one as to say by such a Faith as is without Knowledge and so without light in it and so blind Wheras the true saving Faith is a knowing Faith it is the evidence of things not â—een it sees him that is invisible as before is shewed But my Lord if the maine grounds be folded up in the unrevealed counsell of God I wonder by what revelation you come to know his secret That God in Christ hath resolved to bring Mankind to their last happinesse by Faith and not by Knowledge surely God hath no where in Scripture revealed any such resolution of his And if it be not written Timeas 〈◊〉 illâ—d as Tertullian forementioned said to Hermogenes the Heretick Feare that Woe to them that shall adde to the Booke of Scripture But if you had leasure to Read the Scripture it reveales unto us plainly what God in this businesse hath resolved to do and how he will bring Mankind to his last happinesse and that is by a seeing not a blind Faith by a Faith explicit and cleare not implicit and folded up by light and not by darknesse This is Gods way that he hath chalked out unto us in the Scripture as before is fully proved of Faith and therfore we are sure that God in Christ in his eternall councell resolved to bring us this way to heaven and no other way And this way is Christ and Christ is light and in this way we must walke as children of the light and not as children of darknesse And every true beleever as he becomes a new man so of a blind man he becomes a seeing man For this cause Christ came the true light that he might lighten every man that comes to him For this cause was Paul sent to preach to the Gentiles To open their eyes and to turne them from darknesse to light and from the power of Satan unto God that they may receive forgivenesse of sinnes and inheritance among them which are sanctified by Faith that is in me saith Christ so that every true Christian in his conversion of blind becomes seeing of darknesse becomes light in the Lord of Satans boâ—dmâ—n Gods serâ—ant and by this way onely through Faith in Christ they receive forgivenesse of sinnes here with sanctification and hereafter the eternall inheritance But as for you my Lord as you have found out another way namely a blind way not by the way of knowledge by which yet you pretend to your last happines so be assured of this that the place you are going unto is just like the way that leads unto it blind and darke yea utter darknesse where the Pit is into which both the blind leader and the blind led shall fall And for your further conviction or else confusion and confutation of your folly and information of your blind Disciples and confirmation of the truth to all the children of truth note what Christ himselfe saith expresly point blanke against you You say God in Christ resolved to bring Mankind to their last happinesse by Faith and not by Knowledge But Christ saith This is the will of him that sent me this God hath resolved on that every one
that seeth the Son and beleeveth in him should have eternall life and I will raise him up at the last day Marke here This is the Fathers will his resolution his revealed councell and purpose What That every one that seeth Christ not with bodily eyes here but with the eyes of his soule being illuminated by holy knowledge and so beleeveth in him should have eternall life and Christ will raise him up in the last day Here is Mans last happinesse to which God hath revealed tâ— us in his word that he hath resolved in his councel to bring Mankind by Faith and Knowledge together and without seperation as both seeing and beleeving And this doth the Scripture every where shew unto us Wherfore did God give some Apostles and some Prophets and some Euangelists and some Pastors and Teachers but for the perfecting of the Saints for the worke of the Ministry for the edefication of the body of Christ And Col. 2.2 That their hearts might be comforted being knit together in love and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the acknowledgement of the Mystery of God What a high and admirable expression is here And 6.7 this is to be rooted and built up in Christ. Againe on the other side what 's the Cause and sourse of all wickednesse and infidelity superstition and Idolatry but ignorance of God and of his word As Ephes. 4.17 This I say therfore and testifie in the Lord that ye henceforth walke not as other Gentiles walkâ— in the vaâ—ity of their minds having the understanding darkened being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the blindnesse of their heart c. So 1 Pet. 4.3 and Hos. 4.1 The Lord hath a controversie with the Inhabittnts of the Land because there is no truth nor mercy nor knowledge of God in the Land And vers 7. My people are destroyed for lacke of knowledge Because thou hast rejected knowledge mark it well my Lord I will also reject thee THAT THOU SHALT BE NO PRIEST TO ME. And on the other side againe The Lord saith I will give you Pastors according to mine heart which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding namely the people whom the Lord is in Covenant with But it seemeth your Priesthood standeth not with the nature and office of those Prophets which feed the people of God with knowledge and understanding You can teach the people a shorter cut to heaven and more easie for the Priest for you tell us God hath resolved to bring Mankind to blessednesse another way then by knowledge Wherin how farre you not onely dishonour but blaspheme the truth of God in Fathering such a foule and abominable lye upon him for this I leave you to that judgement which he hath revealed in his Word But you seem to doe all this in charity That the weakest among men may have their way to blessednes open A way open You meane surely the broad way and you know whither that leads and how the many such weake ones as you speake of goe in that way And broad and open your way had need to be both for the multitude of the travailers therein and for their blindnesse and for the darknesse of the way that so though both they and their guides be blind yet the way is so broad as they cannot possibly goe out of it so long as they do but follow their Nose which must be their guide for want of eyes But it may be you will alledge that saying of Augustine Indocti rapiunt regnum Caeloâ—um c. The unlearned and ignorant take by violence the Kingdome of heaven where we that be great learned Clerks are shut out Ergo the way is open for the weakest and shut against those that abuse their Learning to Gods dishonour and soules destruction But whom doth Augustine there meane by unlearned Ignorants that had no Faith nor true Religion in them Certainly ther 's no heaven for such The blind and lame come not within the fort of Sion But a true beleever may be unlettered or as they say not book learned yet not without knowledge For if he hath faith he hath a knowledge of God in Christ. And being Christs he hath the Spirit of Christ and this quickens him up â—o diligence in the use of all good meanes of saving knowledge as to heare Gods word faithfully preached for he knows Christs voyce and frequently read and conferred upon and he meditates on it his mind is much upon it as yours is of your honours and favour in Court how to keep them and he is still praying for increase of grace and faith and knowledge And my Lord many a such man I could bring that cannot a letter on the Booke that for all your seeming Learning would put you to your Trumps if your greatnesse would but descend so farre as to reason with him of the Scriptures and of Christ and so of faith and the like For there 's all his Learning And such unlearned ones they be who goe to heaven yea take it by violence as Christ saith when great Lord Prelates are shut out As Christ saith to the Pharisees The Publicans and â—arlots goe into the Kingdome of God before you for they beleeved Iohns preaching but ye when ye had seen it repented not afterwards that ye might beleeve him But you goe on in your blind way and say pag. 109. The way of knowledge was not that which God thought fittest for mans Salvation 'T is true not such a speculative knowledge as you speak of but God thought it fittest to bring men to salvation by a knowing Faith as before is shewed I will conclude this with the Apostles thunder As we said before so say I now againe if any man preach otherwise then that is delivered in Gods word let him be accursed And if the Scripture accurse him that leads the blind out of his way to which curse all the people say Amen then what curse is due to him that teacheth the blind such a way as leads to certain destruction of Soule and Body Shall not all the people say Amen to this curse L. p. 106. The Credit of the Scripture depends not upon the subservient inducing Cause that leads us to the first knowledge of the Author which leader here is the Church but upon the Author himselfe and the opinion we have of his Sufficiencie P. Doe you not make the credit of the Scripture to depend upon the Authority of the present Church when without this subservient inducing Cause you deny the possibility of beliefe that the Scripture is the word of God For you say expresly pag. 120. When I said Scriptures were Principles to be supposed I did not I could not intend they were prius cognitae known before Tradition Since I confesse every where that Tradition introduces the knowledge of them But if the credit of
the Scripture depends not upon the Church wheron then On the Author Say you and the opinion we have of his Sufficiencie Here be two things which you couple together 1. The Author 2. The opinion we have of his Sufficiencie 1. For the Author which is God 't is true that God himselfe is the Author of the Scripture and so it is the word of God and God the Author beares witnesse of the Scripture that it is his owne word And where doth God beare this witnesse Is not this his witnesse in the Scripture it selfe Doth not his Spirit speake in it and tell us that it is his word Saith not his Spirit expresly that All Scripture is given by Inspiration from God And doth not the Scripture it selfe tell us this Saith it not then of it selfe that it is Gods word And so saying doth it not beare witnesse to it selfe that it is the word of God And is not the witnesse therof true And if true doth not the credit of the Scripture depend upon it selfe as it is the word of God that speaks in it that it is the word of God Or how can you so seperate the Author from the Scripture he speaking in it but that you must confesse the credit of the Scripture to depend upon it selfe when you acknowledge it depends upon the Author For as God was in the Soft and Still voyce so he is in the Scripture which is the Soft and Still voyce of God And as Elias knew by the soft and stil voyce that the Lord was in it So we know by the Soft and Still voyce of God the Scripture that God is in it and therein speakes unto us And what God therein speakes unto us the Scripture which is his voyce speakes unto us So as the Scripture being Gods own voyce speaking unto us what it saith is of the Same credit that God himselfe the Author and Speaker is of And therfore if the Credit of Scripture depend upon the Author it depends withall upon it selfe because it is Gods own voyce But Secondly you couple here with the Author the opinion we have of his Sufficience So as first it seems you doe not allow the Credit of Scripture to depend simply and Solely upon the Author but withall upon the opinion we have of his Sufficiencie And what if we fayle in our good opinion of the Authors Sufficiencie Wheron will you then hang the Credit of the Scripture Surely it must depend upon our opinion That 's the dint of your speech But of our selves we are altogether ignorant of Gods Sufficiencie How then or whence shall we come to have such an opinion of his Sufficiency as whereon the Credit of the Scripture may infalliby depend From the Authority or Tradition of the present Church Alas your present Church will tell us that the holy Trinity may be expressed in a Picture and that God the Father may be pictured like an Old Man because Christ in Daniel is called the Ancient of dayes For thus you pleaded against Mr. Sheruile in the Starre-Chamber when you fined him 500. pound to the King for defacing the Images of the Trinity in his owne Church-window he being a Justice of Peace If therefore the Almighty and Incomprehensible God may be expressed in an Image what opinion can we have of his Sufficiencie to be the God of truth and the Author of the Scripture as whereon the credit therof may depend when we expresse and represent him by that which is a lye a meere vanity For the Scripture calls an Image a lye as Esa. 44.20 And a teacher of lyes Hab. 2.18 And vanity wind and confusion Esa. 41.29 And falshood Jer. 10.14 And v. 16. God the portion of Iacob is not like them And an Image made to represent God is a lye and falsehood because it is a false representation of God For God is a Spirit Invisible And Esa. 40.18 To whom will ye liken God Or what likenesse will ye compare unto him And the Second Commandement expresly forbids any Image to be made to represent God by So as the practise of your present Church in adoring and seting up and maintaining Images in Churches and Copes and the like whereby you represent God doth teach men a base and false opinion of God and so of his All-Sufficiencie And therfore Secondly in Saying Wee upon the opinion Wee have of his Sufficiency you that are the Setters up and maintainers of lying Images of God in your Churches must needs be those Wee upon whose opinion of Gods Sufficiency must depend the Credit of the Scripture And what opinion can you have of Gods truth that represent him by a lye and falshood And what opinion can you have of his Sufficiency in being the Author of the Scripture that hold and affirme his Scripture and word to be an insufficient witnesse to prove it selfe the word of God And what opinion can you have of Gods Sufficiency who doe every where by your open practises and your Shamelesse blasphemies in fathering your lyes upon God in this your Book as hath been noted but now proclaime to the world what little feare or dread you have of his Majesty as if he were not a just God in punishing wickednesse or in his power insufficient to tame proud Rebells Thus if by the Tradition of the present Church we cannot come to such a knowledge of God as to have a right opinion of his Sufficiencie whence shall we have it Surely all true knowledge of God is to be learned from the Scripture But that you make to be of no credit but as it depends upon the Author and your opinion of his Sufficiency which what it is we have taken a Scantling of And so the conclusion is from these your Premisses that No credit of Scripture to teach no true knowledge of God no right opinion of his Sufficiency nothing for the Credit of the Scripture to depend upon and having no credit in and of it selfe Ergo the Scripture is of no Credit at all This is the very Summe and Sequele of your Speech and indeed the upshot of those sharpe arrows which you have with all your might and malice let fly at the Credit of Scripture to give it the deaths wound Yet you adde L. p. 111. Scripture though it give light enough for Faith to beleeve yet light enough it gives not to be a convincing Reason and proofe for Knowledge P. These words are to be expounded by what you have formerly Sayd Though it give light enough that is though it should or could give â—ight enough For that it doth not give light enough for Faith to beleeve you have plainly told us As pag. 80. The light which is in Scripture is not bright enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesse to it selfe If it cannot then neither can it give light enough for faith to beleeve For sufficient light for Faith to beleeve springs from a sufficient light in Scripture to beare
witnesse to it selfe But this Say you it hath not Ergo not the other Againe you Say pag. 81. Church-Authority must first light the Candle Ergo the Scripture hath no light of it selfe much lesse light enough for faith to beleeve But though it should though it be granted that Scripture had light enough for Faith to beleeve yet light enough it gives not to be a convincing Reason and proofe for knowledge As if you said Neither for Faith for we have proved before that faith and knowledge goe inseperably together true faith being a seeing and knowing faith and not a blind faith The Scripture teacheth no blind faith And why should not Scripture give light enough to be a convincing Reason and proofe for knowledge When it is a sufficient light to discover unto a man the secret thoughts and intents of his heart wherof man himselfe is thorowly convinced and thereby in himselfe condemned of his own Conscience But this knowledge you cannot away withall But you can never put out the eyes of your Conscience though you may for a time fold it or lull it fast asleep Much lesse shall you be able to put out the light of Scripture which is greater then the light of your Conscience As Saith the Apostle If our heart or Conscience condemnes us God is greater then our heart and knoweth all things If therfore the heart or Conscence that is in man be a sufficient witnesse of all his thoughts good and bad and layeth them before him as the Apostle saith much more is Gods word a sufficient witnesse and giveth light enough to be a convincing reason and proofe for knowledge And Solomon Saith The spirit of man is the Candle of the Lord searching all the inward parts of the belly If such then be mans spirit the Candle of the Lord searching all the inward parts of the belly that is all the secrets of mans heart how much more is the Spirit of God in the Scripture his Word such a searcher yea saith the Apostle The Spirit searcheth all things yea the deep things of God And these deep things of God he hath revealed unto us by his Spirit And where but in his word the Scripture is the voyce of this Spirit of God And it was the constant sentence of all the Ancient Fathers whom you would seem so much to adore which Augustine expresseth in these words In Scripturu sacris apertè continentur ea omnia quae necessaria sunt ad Sâ—lutem In the holy Scriptures are clearly contained all those things which are necessary to Salvation Now how should this be true if the Scripture doth not give light enough to be a convincing reason and proofe for knowledge L. p. 113. To prove the Scripture to be the word of God first cometh in the Tradition of the Church the present Church So 't is no Hereticall or Schismaticall beliefe Then the testimony of former Ages c. P. Here at length you come neere the winding up of the long thread of your endlesse Discourse in this your 16 th Section the summe wherof is to prove that the Scripture is of no selfe-credit and Authority And first and last your present Church Tradition must be the Prime hand to lead the blâ—nd to this beliefe that Scripture is the word of God For otherwise the beliefe thereof should be Hereticall or Schismaticall For thus you say To prove the Scripture to be the word of God First comes in the Tradition of the Church the present Church So 't is no Hereticall or Schismaticall beliefe Ergo Beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word comes by any other way as by the word of God it selfe read and heard in the preaching of it and by Gods Spirit speaking in it then wherein the Tradition of the Church the present Church hath been the Prime leader This beliefe is Hereticall and Scismaticall Ergo this beliefe in all the Apostles Martyrs Ancient Fathers and Doctors of the Primitive Ages who never knew any such Tradition of the present Church as whereon this beliefe should depend for its necessary prime inducement was Hereticall and Schismaticall They constantly held till Rome and you brought in this your blind guide to tread down under feet the light of the Scripture and to exalt the Authority of your Antichristian Hierarchy that the Scripture was of self-Authority and Sufficiency to prove it selfe to be the word of God and by the hearing of it preached and read to beget and confirme faith in al beleevers without any such inducement of Church Tradition as you speake of And therefore here you passe your sentence of condemnation of this beliefe in all those forementioned for Hereticall and Schismaticall But how justly may this sentence be retorted upon your selfe and your present Church as both Hereticall and Schismaticall Hereticall as in the maintenance of Doctrines of Devils as afore of the Pelagian and Semi-Pelagian Heresies under colour of your doubtfull Articles of Religion as you have made them by publik Edict and Declaration and flatly forbidding to preach of the Saving Doctrines of Grace as they are clearly layd down and taught in the Scripture and in seting up and maintaining of your Altars whereby the onely Altar Iesus Christ is denyed and in dâ—spensing with the 4 th Commandement yea destroying and unmoralizing of it and so overthrowing the Lords-day-Sabbath wherein you subvert the whole worke of Redemption with the Resurrection and the like thus your present Church is Hereticall as also in this in holding and stiffly maintaining by you a necessity of your present Church-Tradition for the inducing of beliefe of the Scripture to be Gods word as not sufficient and wanting light of it selfe to doe it and which otherwise is of no credit at all Thus I say you are damnably and desperately Hereticall Secondly your present Church is also Schismaticall being a Seperation from the true Church of Christ in your Hierarchy or Prelacy which being altogether â—ntichristian hath no communion in that respect with Christs Church and therfore is notoriously Schismaticall yea in this also Schismaticall that you account and brand that beliefe of Scripture to be Gods word for Hereticall and Schismaticall which is not first induced by your present Church-Tradition wherein you are Schismaticks from the Faith and so from the Church of the Apostles and Ancient Fathers and succeding Churches which never held any such Hereticalll opinion concerning any such insufficiencie of the Scriptures and Authority of the present Church as you most pertenaciously and pernitiously hold Therfore I Conclude that if the present Church of England approve of your Book and hold as you doe it is both Hereticall and Schismaticall But you conclude L. p. 115. So then the way lyeth thus as farre as it appeares to me The Credit of Scripture to be Divine reduces finally into that which we have touching God himselfe and in the same order For as that So this hath three main Grounds to which
Foundation being already layd For you say It is to build up the Truth for the benefit of the Church We have discovered before what the truth is you speak of through your Book which is as much to say as all that wherein you agree with the Church of Rome as one and the same Church for the benifit where of you have writ this Discourse to discredit the word of Truth So as by your building up of Truth is meant your pulling of it down with that hand that wrote this Book And for satisfaction of all men Christianly disposed that is of a peaceable Disposition and not perverse peevish and refractory but willing to meet Rome at least in the halfe way And in a word All your Labour is for Edification not for Destruction For Edification Wherin By rasing the Foundation of Faith the Scripture to build up the Tower of Babel againe in England And not for Destruction but onely of the Puritan Profession and Religion and the power of Godlinesse and the Purity of Gods worship and the sincere Preaching and Preachers of the word of God and in a word in rooting out the precise party where ever your Arme of flesh can reach them This being your practise too well known this must needs be your meaning and sense of these words of the Apostle For Edification and not for Destruction Which as you most wickedly pervert and abuse as you doe all other Scriptures to your false purposes so in this respect it is a Conclusion not unsutable to your whole Section while thus you make the word of God of no Authority by your Traditions And so here an end of this Section But not an end of the prosecution of the same subject still For it follows L. p. 118. You see neither Hooker nor I nor the Church of England for ought I know leave the Scripture alone to manifest it selfe by the light which it hath in it selfe No but when the present Church hath prepared and led the way like a preparing morning light to Sun-shine then indeed we settle for our Direction but not upon the first opening of the morning light but upon the Sun it selfe P. In the former Section 17. consisting of one page the Jesuite objecting your words The Bishop said That the Books of Scripture are Principles to be supposed and needed not to be proved your Answere is Did I say it needed no proofe at all to a naturall man or to a man newly entring upon the Faith yea or perhaps to a doubter or weakling in the Faith Can you think me so weake I doe but mention this by the way as taking notice with what a pretty slight you put off your recantation of that speech But the next passage will cleare this more fully Now this your Comparison of the morning light let us clearely see how weake and improper it is for your purpose For what is the morning light but a beame or beames of that Sun which as children of the Bridegroom doe usher him out of his Chamber signifying his neare approach These beames I say are of the very same nature of that light which is in the body of the Sun and do immediately issue and spring from it inlightning the Sky or that part of heaven above the Horizon which beames or morning light as the Sunne advanceth nearer to his Rising waxeth clearer and clearer unto the perfect day But now the Authority of the present Church which you compare to the morning light is no such beame of the Sun of Righteousnesse shining in the Scripture as in his Sphere as that it is of the same nature of the light of the Scripture For the Scripture light is Divine and Infallible but of Tradition you say I cannot find that the Tradition of the present Church is of Divine and Infallible Authority Which if you could by all the light in the Sky at noon day find you would be no Churle in hiding it from the world or puting it under a bushell But to hold you to the propriety of your Comparison which at first blush showes as faire as the first morning light you may know That the Sunne makes the beames to shine and not the beames the Sunne whereas you say The Authority of the present Church lights the Candle of Scriptures which otherwise gives no light and so makes it to shine Againe 2 dly The morning light is an Infallible Index or immediate foregoing token of the approach of the Sunne riâ—â—ng which it ushereth in but you dare not say yea you deny that the present Churches Testimony or Authority is infallible for the inducing of beliefe that Scripture is the word of God Thirdly the morning light so soon as ever it first peepeth or dawneth we say and that truly It is day but an Infiel or doubting or weake Christian upon the first hearing of the testimony of the present Church That the Scriptures are the word of God is not so infallibly Convinced and perswaded as therfore to beleeve it to be true Fourthly The morning light is alone a sufficient and infallible signe as being an immediate effect an essentiall quality issuing from the Sun of its neare rising but you confesse that though your present Church Authority be the Prime yet it is not the Sole Index or finger to point us out the Scripture to be the word of God but you joyne with it sundry other helps as before you tell us Thus no way can we find your Comparison proper or pertinent to your purpose being as a blind Horse that halts downright of aâ—l foure But this by way of application to the right purpose I conclude out of it That as the morning light which certainly and infallibly tells us of the approching of the Sun rising and which perswades every man whose eyes are awake of the truth therof is an immediate beame of that Sun and of the same nature and quality of its native and essentiall light So that which is both Prime and Sole in leading us Certainly and Infallibly to beleeve that the Scripture is the word yea and working also and begetting this Faith in us is the light or beame of the Scripture it selfe displayed by the Ministry or Preaching of the Word which is as the dawning of the day or the Day Stars first arising in our hearts as Peter speakes by meanes whereof we come actually not onely to beleeve without any other externall Cause that Scripture is the word of God but also to know and feele that the Sun of Righteousnesse hath now begun to shine in our hearts by the beame of his Spirit the immediate forerunner of his rising unto the perfect Day L. p. 120. A C. Cannot but perceive by that which I have clearly layd down before that when I said Scriptures were Principles to be supposed I did not I could not intend they were prius cognita known before Tradition since I confesse every where that
the strength of your powerfullest perswasive reasons and draw them by your gentlest motives but doe not hale and dragge them with the violence of your Archiepiscopall power and Romish zeale Throw not Godly Ministers out of their Ministry and Means and that by Hundreds with their Wives and Children exposed to all miseries of poverty and all because they will not dare not yeeld to your lawlesse Prelaticall Impositions Innovations Usurpations But if you will needs proceed on in that your violent course against Christ and Christian liberty and peace of mens Consciences assure your selfe you shall not prâ—sper you shall not be victor Christ will confound you with all your Power and Pollicie And He shal be both Irenaenus and Victor for his Church both to Conquer his Enemies and to restore Peace to his People And thus much of your example of Irenaeus and Victor L. p. 141. Well thus the whole Militant Church is holy and so we beleeve And if she erre in the Foundation that is in some one or more Fundamentall points of Faith then she may be a Church of Christ still but not Holy but becomes Hereticall And most certaine it is that no Assembly be it never so Generall of such Hereticks is or can be holy P. Doe you beleeve the whole Militant Church to be holy And so doe I. But your whole Militant Church is not the same with that which I beleeve is holy For your whole Militant Church whereof you professe to be a member is in plain terms the Antichristian Church and the Church Malignant which is a persecuter of the true Militant Church of Christ as both hath been and yet will be made more manifest So as your Militant Church is properly so called for no other reason but because it makes Warre against Christ and his Saints Rev. 12.7 and 13.7 and 16.14 and 17.14 but the true Militant Church of Christ is so called because she fights spiritually under Christs banner against Sinne the World the Flesh the Devil and cruell Persecuters whom she overcomes by the blood of the Lambe and by the word of her Testimony not loving her life unto the death So as your Militant Church is a name which you have usurped abused and perverted whereas it is to be named according to its nature The Church Malignant For further proofe hereof you say if she erre in some one or more Fundamentall points c. Which implyes your Militant Church may erre in points Fundamentall Which cannot possibly be understood of the onely true holy Catholicke Militant Church of Iesus Christ. For this whole Militant Church of the Elect cannot either in whole or in part or in the least member of it erre in any Fundamentall point so as thereby to becâ—me unholy For this were else to fall from Christ and from â—he Comâ—munion of Saints by being seduced by Antichrists and false Prophets who shall deceive if it were possible but it is not possible the verâ— Elect. This erring in the Foundation belongs and extends to all the Reprobates of the world who are by Antichrist seduced unto their perdition who because they receive not the love of the Truth that they might be saved God shall send them strong Delusions to bâ—leeve a lye yea to beleeve that for truth which their own â—eared Conscience tells them is a lye For not to receive the love of the truth implyes that they had received the truth unto acknowledgement and conviction but the love of this truth they imbraced not But the whole Militant Church of Christ I say cannot be so seduced unto perdition or to fall from Christ. What is it to fall from Christ To fall from Christ is to fall from that Faith and love of Christ which once they professed that is from the Faith of the Doctrine of Christ and from that love which they professed towards it And this faâ—ling from the Faith of Christ is when any one Fundamentall point of faith is denyed and persisted in as we have formerly proved as in the Resurrection and Circumcision and sundry others I might adde here many other Instances as the Deniall of all the Doctrines of Grace in Gods Free Election Redemption c. which Grace and Merit of Christ is peculiar to the Elect onely I will onely adde one more here which I but touched before He that denyes the Lords day to be the Sabbath day of Christians commanded no lesse to Christians in the 4th Commandement then the seventh or last day of the week was to the Iewes he erres in the Foundation becomes unholy and falls away from the Faith of Christ. This I demonstrate thus First The 4 th Commandement is Morall and so eternall and unchangeable And as the eternall sabbatisme is in heaven belonging to the Church Tryumphant so there is a sabbatisme temporall pertaining to the Church Militant in this world This sabbatisme as the other is the rest of God His Rest saith David This Sabbatisme in the Church Militant is by God himselfe appointed to be solemnly observed of the whole Congregation on that seventh day of the week wheron himselfe rested This Sabbath or rest of God was on the seventh or last day of the week upon the finishing of the worke of creation And therfore for that very cause God commanded his People in the Old Testament to sanctifie that Sabbath day weekly This is given as the Reason of its sanctification by the People The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God For in six dâ—yes he made heaven and earth and rested the seventh Therfore c. Remember to sanctifie the Sabbath day the Lords Sabbath day And note he saith not Remember to sanctifie the seventh or last day of the week but Remember to sanctifie the Sabbath day These words are the Morall substance of the Commandement The rest is an exposition and application of it the exposition to keep holy that Day for Sabbath which is the Lords own Sabbath day wherein himselfe hath rested Note this well for I will speak much here in few words Weigh them therfore number them not The particular application of the seventh or last day of the week as wherein God rested from his works of Creation is commended and commanded to Gods people under the Old Testament So as if there had not come in afterwards a more glorious Sabbath or rest of Gods as from a more glorious worke of a more glorious Creation we Christians also should have kept that seventh day that the Jewes kept But that this more glorious day of a more glorious rest of God from a more glorious worke being come then the same 4 th Commandement commands us Christians to keep this new Day of Rest of the Lord our God So as though the Day be changed yet the Commandement is the same It binds us still to sanctifie the Sabbath of the Lord our God Secondly for the application of the 4 th Commandement to us
in matters of faith as the Shrine of your Predecessor S. Thomas of Canterbury with the keyes of his blind votaries And so much the more in these dayes as wherein you have put all England to a stand and stagger what to beleeve in point of Faith considering that the Articles of Religion like Meteors hang in suspense in the ayre no man knowing what to make of them whether they be white or blacke or what such Comets portend untill to that Edict of the Court that binds up the sense of the Articles fast asleep or in a slumber between Hawke and Buzzard or as a speaking in a dreame you shall superadde the Definitive Decree of the Chaire of Canterbury to interpret unto us what they have dreamed all this while But I suppose the Board calling you so much away from your Chaire you are the more willing and that in such a case of necessity to send all the faithfull to your Ordine primus at Rome and to Peters Chaire there if any such thing be there which may like Iunoes three footed stoole resolve all their doubts And so as you say to A C. Rome may thanke you for it But alwayes provided tha◠Rome first reduce her selfe as you say to the Observation of Tradition Apostolicke and then you will say Latinè plainly That it wil be then necessary for every Church and for the faithfull every where to agree with it to have recourse to Rome and to rest their Faith there where is the most Powerfull Principality And thus as well as I could I have pickt up your meaning wherein if I have come short you must pardon me and blame your selfe for your being no more perspicuous in matters of such moment as about consulting of Oracles considering that that of Apollo and Delphos was long agoe put to silence But to proceed L. p. 199. The Bishop of Rome hath no power from Christ over the whole Church to be Iudge in Controversies nay out of all doubt 't is not the least reason why de facto he hath so little successe because de Jure he hath no power given P. Not over the whole Church This seems to imply that the Bishop of Rome hath a power from Christ to be Iudge in Controversies over all the Churches at least within his own more powerfull Principality And consequently that the Primate of Canterbury hath the like power from Christ to be Judge in Controversies over the whole Church of England If you have yet it wil be some ease to the English that they have an Oracle so neare home to resolve them in all doubts so as they need not as formerly go trudge to Rome for the matter But neither to the Pope in his Powerfull Principality nor to you in your Primacy hath Christ given any power at all to be Judge in Controversies of Faith And because you have no Calling nor Commission from Christ therfore 't is true you say in this that the Pope hath no better successe And I pray you what successe have you had since you took upon you to sway the Crosier staffe of Canterbury and to be Judge in Controversies of Faith making and raysing controversies there where there was none before as namely in the Articles of Religion 'T is true you have put many a good Minister to Silence thrust many a one out of his Cure and Countrey levied your way for an universall Conformity to Rome prevailed much in your Designes that way but yet have you any great cause to boast of your successe all things Considered I say no more Verbum sapienti you understand me well enough And certainly when you cast up your reckoning you will find your selfe to be as much behind hand for successe as you do the Pope And your Reason is true because you have no power no Authority no Calling no Commission from Christ either to possesse such a place or to execute such an Office For as the Lord saith in Ieremie speaking of false Prophets I sent them not neither commanded them therfore they shall not profit this people at all saith the Lord. So neither have you reason to thinke that because you may do what you list in turning things upside down in seting up your Altars in suppressing Gods word in oppressing Gods Ministers in advancing your Arminian and Popish faction and you hitherto prosper therein while there is never a man left that dare so much as mutter a word against these your practises so great is your Power and so terrible your Cruelty and Ministers so Cowardly so as by this meanes your Cause and Course seems to prosper while you can crush any that shall interpose himselfe or lawfully in his place oppose your violent courses therfore Christ hath given you this power thus to tyrannise wherein you doe so prosper True it is that Christ hath given way to Satan to rage in these times because he knows he hath but a short time and hereby Christ will try and humble his people that he may doe them good and be glorified in their deliverance and in the destruction of all such Papall and Antichristian Tyranny L. p. 200. The Church being as large as the world Christ thought it fitter to governe it Aristocratically by Divers rather then by One Viceroy And I beleeve that this is true For all the time of the first 300. yeares and somwhat bettter it was governed Aristocratically to wit by the Bishops c. P. Here you give us occasion further to launch into the Deep of this Mystery that we may sound the bottome of it and so discerne what ground it floats upon mudde or sand or both although we have in part discovered it before Here you say and you say you beleeve it too it is an Article of your Creed that Christ thought it fitter to govern the Church Aristocratically by diverse rather then by one Viceroy And you give the Reason The Church being as large as the world We will first take an Assay of your words and then of your Reason For to a vulgar Reader some of your words are somwhat obscure and some also very finely couched that every eye cannot at the first discerne the Mystery of them And first for Aristocratically Aristotle the famous Philosopher and no meane statesman in his Politicks layes down 3 kinds of Civil Government taken in the better part The first is Monarchia which is a government by One the second is Aristocratia which is a Government of the Best Men the third is Democratia which is a Government Popular or of the People Opposite to these three he sets three sorts of bad Government the first is Tyranny which is opposed to Monarchy Tyranny ruling either without or contrary to the good Laws established but a Monarchy governing according to the established good Laws of the State Kingdome or Common-weale The second is Oligarchia which signifies the Government of a few and this standing in opposition to Aristocratia
to defend their ancient and accustomed Liberty Regiment and Laws they may not well be countod Rebells So he But this by the way But I have somthing more to say about the shaking of the Foundations of Faith and Good Manners though I mentioned it before but now upon this occasion And that is concerning Ceremonies of humane ordinance in Gods worship which being imposed upon mens Consciences is not onely a shaking of the Founâ—ation of Faith but an overthrowing of it for thereby Christ is denyed to be the onely King of his Church And therfore as the Kings of Israel did nothing in reforming of Religion and the worship of God but what was expresly commanded and prescribed in Gods Law so Christian Kings and Magistrates ought not to doe any thing no not to impose any one humane Ceremony or Ordinance in Gods service besides that which is written in Gods word otherwise the Foundations of Faith is overthrown Of such moment is the least Ceremony in Gods service that it is of the substance and Foundation of Faith L. p. 210. But 't is time to return For A.C. in this Passage hath been very carefull to tell us of a Parliament and of living Magistrates and Iudges besides the Law books Thirdly therfore The Church of England God be thanked shines happily under a Gratious Prince and well understands that a Parliament cannot be called at All times and that there are visible Iudges besides the Law-books and one supreme long may he be and be hapâ—y to settle all Temporall Differences which certainly he might much better perform if his Kingdome were well ridde of A. C. and his Fellows And she beleeves too that our Saviour Christ hath left in his Church besides his Law-books the Scripture Visible Magistrates and Iudges that is Arch-bishops and Bishops under a Gratious King to governe both for Truth and Peace according to the Scripture and her own Canons and Constitutions as also those of the Catholicke Church which Crosse not the Scripture and the Iust Laws of the Realme But she doth not beleeve there is any Necessity to have one Pope or Bishop over the whole Christian world more then to have one Emperour over the whole world P. It were time indeed for you to return from your Course when once there is mention of a Parliament For thriving If you mean that your Church of England hath of late dayes well thriven in her prevailing for the seting up of Images and Altars for bringing in more Superstitions into your Service for puting down sincerity Purity and power of the true Religion and of the Preaching of Gods word for suppressing the Doctrines of Grace forementioned for hampering the Puritans as you call them by puting down suspending and silencing of Godly and painfull Preachers and by crying down both the Doctrine and Practise of the sanctification of the Sabbath or Lords day and by smothering in the birth all sound and Orthodox Books against Popery and other Heresies not suffering them to be Printed and by licencing of Popish Books to be Printed and Publâ—shed and the like and if this be the way of the well thriving of your Church whomsover you have cause to thanke yet surely you have small cause to thanke God whose Name herein you doe abuse and blaspheme as perhaps your own Conscience may tell you as if he favoured such practises of yours because for a time he patiently suffers and winks at them and that in judgement to a sinfull Land and for tryall of his own servants and people and for a preparative to your certaine ruine if speedy repentance prevent it not For God is not mocked with such thanks though he be mocked but whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reape How then doth it concerne all Christian Magistrates to look to it least if they suffer Christs Kingdome to be betrayed into the hands of Antichristian Usurpers by giving way unto them to doe what they list while themselvs seem to sleep they provoke God too much For as Samuel sayd to the People If ye doe wickedly you shall perish both you and your King For my part though I will not joyne in Prayer with such a Profane Hypocrite as you are and an enemy of Iesus Christ and his Truth no more then the Apostle Iohn would be in the same Bath with that Heretick Cerinthus yet my dayly Prayer is and shall be that God would more and more let the King see how miserably he is abused and the Peace and safety of his Kingdome distracted and indangered both by the late violent practises which have been held in Church-affaires and now by the publishing of such a Book as this so notoriously perillous or rather most pernicious and so much the more in these times of troubles about Religion lately sprung up in the Iland of Great Britaine Which Book though it make many faire pretences for Peace yea Peace and Truth yet in truth it will prove the greatest troubler of Israel and the falsest friend to true Truth that the light hath seen these many yeares This I speake not by conjecture much lesse out of malice to the Authors Person but from the cleare evidence of the word of Prophecy in Scripture in such cases But how comes your Church of England to be so well seen in State-Mysteries I pray you as so well to understand that a Parliament cannot be called at all times Or by the Church of England doe you not meane the the Chaire of Catnterbury as the Church Collective or representative of England For you should better understand such State-matters especially for the not calling of Parliaments at all times or suppose it were at Notime or Nevermas least perhaps it might prove as a Frost to nippe your thriving and overforward spring then your Lordship For my part I am no States-man and so I leave State matters to States-men who should best understand them But if your A.C. and his Fellows be such troublesome fellows why doe you trouble your selves with them when a good honest Parliament might ease the King and Kingdome â—oo of that trouble provided that good Laws already enacted and by the next Parliament if ever there shal be any quickned by a new Law to put them in better execution there may be also a good season to bring forth such Visible Iudges as without straining the strings either of their Purses or Consciences coming clearly to their Benches and not making them as Banks but siting Rectè in Curia they may without feare of any Prepotent Prelate or Partiality in respect of Persons do Justice I passe now from the understanding of your Church of England to her Beliefe which you also tell us of She beleeves too What doth she beleeve That our Saviour Christ hath left in his Church besides his Law-books the Scriptures visible Magistrates and Iudges that is Arch-bishops and Bishops How Is this come already to be an Article of the Faith of the Church of
what one wise and honest man did in preventing so wicked a Decree of a whole Generall Councell of many Prelates And assure your selfe were there but a few sound Puritans admitted to your Generall Councel and might have free liberty to speake you would not be able to resist the evidence of Truth which they should bring in as Arelatensis told the Prelates in the Councel of Basil concerning the poore inferiour Priests But if you shall exclude the Puritans and so all Reformed Non Prelaticall Churches out of your Prelaticall Councel Generall how should it be a Generall Councel But I cry you mercy Puritan Reformed Churches are already by you doomed for no members of your Catholicke Church whereof and wherein yours and Romes Church are one and the same and therfore as Heathen they ought to be shut out for Wranglers as they were from the Councel of Trent Another Reason against a Generall Councel being Iudge in Controversies is because all sound and Orthodox Divines both Ancient and Moderne both Forraigne and Domesticke in the Church of England formerly with all the Orthodox Fathers in this point have held professed and beleeved That the holy Scripture is the sole sufficient Iudge in all Controversies of Faith And for proofe hereof What say you to Dr Whitakers Lectures against Bellarmine and Stapleton in this Point Or how do or can you answere any of his Arguments drawn from cleare Scriptures and Testimonies from the Ancient Fathers But it seems you have not been acquainted with him as not once mentioning him in all this For that were besides your Purpose But you will except against him as a Puritan which is a sufficient confutation with one puffe of your mouth And so you doe all honest sound learned Religious Orthodox Divines whatsoever whom particularly to alledge here would but make your stomacke rise and so I passe on to the rest Secondly and Thirdly and againe and againe I deny that the Decrees of Generall Councels bind any true Christians Faith and Conscience so much as to outward obedience to any one Ceremony as before Yea though your Councel Decree according to the Scripture yet jure proprio and absolutely of its own Authority it binds not the Conscience That 's proper and peculiar to the Scripture alone immediatly the onely binding Rule of Faith and Conscience How much lesse doth a Councel bind in a matter of error in a point of Faith This is such an abominable point of Divinity as never any Arch-Prelate of Canterbury since the Reformation and I presume before ever uttered Divinity say I yea Divinity Diabolicall and monstrous Impiety and Antichristian Tyranny to be hissed out by all that beare but the bare name of Christians And this Answereth also to the Fourth which is as full of ridiculous absurdity as of impious folly You hope forsooth that a Councels errors will not be so great as all men shall discerne them That may well be when many thousands take no notice at all of any such Councel Decrees And how many men have not the eyes to discern even the grossest errors How many in the Church of England doe discerne the grossenes and danger of your seting up of your Altars in all the Churches of England as namely that it is a denying of Christ the onely Altar And the bringing in of the Popish Priesthood and sacrifice But what if you could in a Provinciall Councel of Canterbury make a Decree for seting up and worshiping of Altars as you doe and that all men did see the grossnes of it Would the sight of it exempt them from at least externall obedience being once defined in that your Synod And so of a Generall Councel for universall obedience No the knowledge of the grossnes of the error will not serve their turnes to excuse them from obedience For you tell us We must notwithstanding yeild obedience If so surely it were the safest way then for men to close their eyes that they may not see at all and so yeeld blind obedience to your Decrees pinning their soules as I said to the Prelates Innocent white sleeve to be led blindfold to hell then seeing and knowing to sin against their Conscience in yeelding obedience But how ever seeing or not seeing hang or be damned the Decree of a Generall Councel even in point of error in the Truth yea though men know it to be against Gods word must be universally obeyed till evidence of Scripture or a Demonstration to the contrary made the error appeare and untill thereupon another Generall Councel equall to that did reverse it Which may be long enough before all these things concurre What Must the Decree of the seventh Generall Councel the second of Nice for the worship of Images bind all men to Obedience till another Generall Councell equall to that upon Demonstration to the contrary shall reverse it Or must the Decree of the Councel of Lateran under Pope Innocent 3. for Transubstantiation be beleeved and obeyed by all men at least in externall obedience to worship the Altar and Hoast till another Councell equall unto that shall reverse it Or must the Decree of the Generall Councel of Constance for the taking away of the Cup in the Sacrament from the People bind all to obedience till another Councel equall unto that shall reverse it Or lastly shall the Decrees of the Councel of Trent which calls it selfe a Generall Councel ratifying the worship of Images Transubstantiation and the taking away of the Cup wiâ—ing the Peoples nose of it besides all those other damnable and damning errors against the cleare Truth and Faith of Christ bind all to obedience till another Councell equall to that shall reverse it Then certainly all Papists by your sentence are bound to be damned Nay are not you and your Church of England bound to obey all those Decrees of Former Generall Councels as that of the second of Nice for worship of Images not yet reversed by a Generall Councel equall to that though by a Councel at Frankford called by Carolus Magnus Emperour of the West that wicked Decree was condemned But the Decrees of this Councel are smothered and kept in hugger mugger as being outfaced by such a prevailing generallity of unblishing Images and so have lost their place among the Records of the Councels And besides that Councel at Frankford was not for generallty equall to that of Nice under that wicked Empresse Irene Which being so and so that Decree of Nice not yet reversed why say I doe not you obserue your own Rule in obeying that Decree in worshiping of Images Or why at least though you here write somthing against them to some small purpose as coming neare to Idolatry doe you not yeeld externall obedience in doing corporall Reverence to those Images you have set up onely reserving your internall worship and keeping your Faith to your selfe But to satisfie us for that you have over or upon your Altar in your own Chappel at Lambeth
they renounce all such lords Aske them againe why they subject their Consciences soules and bodies to the will and lust of man in will-worship forbidden by the Apostle ô they answere they never knew that before and now that they know it they repent of it and from henceforth they renounce it and resolve to loose rather life and all then they will doe so any longer Thus even a good Christian through ignorance may for a time in a dangerous errour but so soon as he is convinced of it he will not for all the world continue in it So he that hath true saving faith in Christ resting on Christs merits alone for his justification he neither will nor can be brought to beleeve that he must be justified by his works For this is against the very nature of saving faith which rests onely on Christ renouncing all other respects So that 't is impossible that any true member of Christ should by any errour be so seduced as to be seperated from Christ for he is preserved by the spirit of Grace by the power of God through faith unto salvation So that as the whole body of the Church of Christ so every particular member of this body hath the certaine and infallible seale of the Spirit of Truth given him of Christ according to his promise purpose and intention for all truth absolutely necessary to salvation having both his Spirit and word to guide them into all truth Finally 't is very true being taken in a true sence that Christ never intended to leave an infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie either contentious or curious or presumptuous spirits And if not presumptuous spirits certainly not such spirits as usurpe a Prelaticall and Lordly Authority and to sit as visible Iudges of Scripture in Generall Councels imposing upon all men a servile yoake of obedience to their Decrees whether right or wrong true or false Nay to such presumptuous spirits God hath given eyes not to see and hath made their hearts fat not to understand the truth not to see the light that shineth in his word and therfore they say it is darke and speake disgracefully of it So as the presumptuous is properly yours As for the contentious and curious these are they that contend for the truth against your undermining and oppugning of it and are curious â—o search and sound the bottome of that Mystery of Iniquity which is cunningly yet grosly enough folded up in the voluminous leaves of this your Booke So as for these so contentious and curious Christ did intend to leave an Infallible certainty in his Church to satisfie them and to assure them of the Truth so as not all the opposition and contradiction in the world can beate them from it To the Tenth you make no matter of it if Generall Câ—uncels erre in one or a second or a third so it be not in things necessary In other cases it makes no matter if they erre And what matter is it then if there be none of your Generall Councel at all For you confesse that they may possibly though not easily erre in things necessary and in fundamentall points of Faith and yet obedience must be given If then it be no matter if in other things they erre onâ—e twice thrice yea or if you will in a hundred things take all these together and the world should be free from many dangers if it were rid of Generall Councels altogether But in the meane time you make no matter of it if in so erring they load the world with an intollerable burthen of errours which all men must bow their necks under till another Generall Councel doe free them and perhaps in stead of freeing them may lay as much more load upon them Truly my Lord if you had not a liberty to talk with your pen what you please and a strong opinion also that whatsoever you write or speake must needs be of every body highly applauded as if all you write were Oracles you would never have suffered such foule blots to have dropped from your pen. But 't is no matter If you erre in this and that and another c. aswell as your Generall Councels so as we knowing them may not in obeying or assenting erre with you To the Eleventh you say for necessary faith to salvation we have the Scriptures Creeds 4 first Generall Councels So then being furnisht of necessaries what need we any more I think the Apostles rule for temporall things may hold well in spirituall he saith having food and rayment let us therewith be content So Having all things necessary for faith to salvation let us use these well and bâ— content not affecting to be loaden with a multitudo of humane devises which Prelaticall Councels Courts and Canons put upon us And are Generall Councels so Cheape as that you should keep such a doe having no Necessaries to trouble them withall But it seems you have some other necessaries besides those of faith that will require a Generall Councel For you tell us pag 211. The setling of the Divisions of Christendome as the reconciling of England with Rome the making of Canons which must bind aâ—l particular Christians and Churches cannot be concluded 〈…〉 but there to wit in a Generall Councel Why but there For the Church of England you may doe what you please onely you desire perhaps a Generall Councel to conclude for Altars and other utensils and so ease your shoulders of the envy and crime of Innovation but for that also you have a sufficient put off as is shewed before But the reconciliation and setling of the Divisions of Christendome will conclude all But still the Scripture with you is not alone sufficient for necessary faith to salvation without the Creed and at least the 4 first Generall Councels Why was the Scripture before there were any either Creeds or Councels And was not the Scripture then alone sufficient for all things necessary to salvation The Creeds and Councels are not to be added to the Scripture as if without them it were not an absolute and compleat Rule As for the Creeds they were for the summe and substance of them extracted from Scripture and must still be reduced to Scripture for their true sense and interpretation as before And for the Decrees of the 4 Generall Councels we approve of them no further then the Scripture warrants them And therfore though Twelfthly you humbly submit to the Scripture as it is interpreted by the Primitive Church and Generall Councels and not els yet we submit our faith onely to the Scripture as it is interpreted by it selfe and by the spirit of Christ speaking and breathing in it which by the Scripture interprets the Scripture unto us as Augustine doth well observe in his Second Book de Doctrina Christiana And herein you shew your faith not to be Divine but humane as which you submit not meerly to the Scripture but unto the Iudgment of men as
the end of the world Whereas by saying Peter represented the Person of the Church you must meane that the Church is wholly contained in the Ministers For you usually call your Clergy the Church as if you had no Church but that whereas the Congregation or society of all the Faithfull is the Church of God as is shewed before So as in no respect did Peter receive the Keys in the person of your Priest and Prelaticall Church L. p 258. Where 't is said That Christ makes to himselfe a Church without spot or wrinckle Eph. 5. That is not understâ—â—d of the Church Militant but of the Church Tryumphant And to maintain the contrary is a brand of the spreading Heresie of Pelagianisme P. That speech of the Apostle includes as well the truâ— Church Militant as the Tryumphant both which containe and consist of all the Elâ—ct onely And these Elect that in the Church Militant live by Faith though they have enoikouâ—an kì euperÃstton aâ—mratÃan as the Apostle saith sinne dwelling in them and easily besetting them yet they are in Gods sight through Faith in Christs blood that fountaine set open for Israel washed from all the spotâ— of sinne being in Christs imputed Righteousnesse and holynesse presented and accepted in Gods sight as most pure without spot or wrinkle As the the Apostle Iohn saith The blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sinne And Christ saith to his Spouse his Church Militant Thou art all faire my Love there is no spot in thee Concerning that place which you cite out of Augustine where he saith The whole Church prayeth forgive us our debts 'T is true speaking there of the visible Church quae in toto terrarum orbe clamat ad deum which over all the earth crys to God And if he meane it of the Elect onely which are the onely true Spouse of Christ in all the world their praying forgive us our debts hinders not nor interrupteth their perpetuall purity in Gods sight notwithstanding For we may be and are through faith in Christ accepted for pure in Gods eyes when in our own eyes through sin and manifold corruptions still dwelling but not raigning in us we are impure And therfore we pray forgive us our debts because we have dayly failings and infirmities whereof our Consciences accuse us and the confession of them with deprecation is a meanes to have that stain and guilt cleaving to our Conscience and corrupt nature wiped off Faith still renewing the application of Christs merits as a Balme to heale our wounds and to assure us that our sinnes are blotted out in his blood For as Iohn saith If we confesse our sinnes he is faithfull and just to forgive us our sinnes and to cleanse us from all unrighteousnes Now as for the Pelagians One of their errours was in Arrogating purity to their own sect and that they had no Originall sinne but that they were Justi by a selfe-Righteousnesse calling those of their own sect Justi Righteous as Augustine tells us But where you name the spreading Heresie of the Pelagians I know none to whom that is more beholden then to him your selfe I meane who hath given it a footing and rooting too in the Articles of the Doctrines of the Church of England and under whom it hath shot forth its branches both in height and breadth that it dare both overtop and overdrop the Truth without controule But I had almost forgot one thing and that is this you allow not Purity in your Church Militant in this life If therfore there be not a full purgation of the Church and her Children here in this world where will you have her purged Purged she must be and that thorowly that she be without spot or wrinkle before she come into heaven For in thither no unclean thing entâ—eth Me thinks then I smell here the smoke of some Purgatory fire after this life which must purge away all the reliques of sins spots And upon this very ground that you goe on it is that the Papists have very prudently as in a case of necessity devised their Purgatory to cleanse all after this life seeing here they say there is no Perfection of Purity But perhaps you thought not of this consequence when you writ those words That the Church Militant is not without spot or wrinkle But so how will you avoyd the consequence of Purgatory So as while you pretend to avoyd the Pelagian Rocke you fall into the Roman fiery Phlegetom or Purgatory-Gulfe According to the old Proverbe Incidit in Scyllam dum vuâ—t vitare Charâ—â—â—in But you seem afterwards not to allow of Purgatory telling some stories of it but bringing not one Argument from Scripture against it as That the blood of Christ doth cleanse a true beleever from all sinne in this life and the like But hereof in its place Againe In saying That Christ doth not make the Church Militant in this life to be without spot or wrinkle you doe 〈◊〉 overthrow that Article of Faith I beleeve the holy Catholicke Church Now doth not the holy Catholicke Church 〈…〉 Church Militant Is not the Church Militant 〈…〉 if holy is it not then without spot or wrinkle 〈…〉 But this is no Article of your Faith because your Catholicke Church is not thus holy without spot or wrinkle L. p. 275. In and by the Councel of Trent the Pope 〈…〉 of Saints and Adoration of Images to the 〈…〉 of Christianity and as great hazzard of the weake P. What no more but so First In the Councel â—f 〈…〉 the Pope teach no more but these two And these two he could teach long before the Councel of Trent There they had the Pâ—pâ— confirmation but not their Christendome But you tell us not â— word in all your Booke of the Popes teaching of 〈…〉 mans works and merits and of his Anathematizing of 〈…〉 by Faith onely which the Scripture teacheth Nor a 〈…〉 teaching the Masse to be a Propitiatory sacrifice for 〈…〉 quicke and dead Nor how he teacheth a New order of sacriâ—â—â—cing Priests Nor That Originall sinne is no sinne saying Although the Apostle define it to be sinne yet the holy Councel of Trent decreeth it not to have the nature of sinne And all these and many more such the Pope teacheth in the Councel of Trent Secondly Are Invocation of Saints and Adoration of Images no more but a great hazzard to the weake Are they not so also to the strong while they make the strongest to stoope to them and therfore so much the more hazardous Except you meane that to the strong they are damnable not onely dangerous But is plaine Idolatry in both these both adoration of Images and Invocaâ—iâ—n of Saints onely hazardous to the weake Is not Idolatry damnable Nay is it not damnation to Idolaters Doth it not shut them out of heaven For no Idolaters shall inherit the Kingdome of God Know ye it not saith the Apostle
They are taught this one Maine Principle That they must be saved not by Faith onely but by their good Works whereby they must merit their Salvation Now this all Papists learned and unlerned professe This unlesse they cease to be Papist they live and dye in and so they are necessarily and certainly damned For to adde any thing to Faith in Iustification is damnation as before it shewed And saith the Prophet They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy But Thirdly you say They may be saved so they conforme to a Religious life Now what is the Religious life of a Papist and especially of a silly ignorant Papist Namely to goe to Shrief or Confession to the Priest his Ghostly Father as often as may be as the Fernall Glory published by your Chapleins licence teacheth or at the least once a yeare against Easter to keep his Lent-fast strictly so as upon paine of damnation or greivous penance not to eat an egge all that time and so observe all othor Fasting-dayes in the yeare together with all Holydayes to say over their Beads every day in repeating their Pater Noster Ave Mary Creed and ten Commandements â—f either they be so learned or devout to goe to their dayly Masse and Mattens where it is their safety to understand never a word nor to say Amen to the Priest but by the sound of his voyce which they understand no more then the chattering of a Magpy to call upon such a Saint his speciall Mediator and say a Pater Noster and Ave Mary before such an Image and especially of their Lady and a thousand such like observations wherein a Popish Religious life consisteth And so this is the Religious life of your ignorant silly Papist wherin living and dying he may be saved if he may beleeve your Doctrine But to this you adde An humble and peaceable obedience To What Or to whom As to the Priests Ghostly Discipline when he injoynes sore penance as whipping-cheare in Lent or the like Or if you meane peaceable obedience to the Civil Magistrate as in England that must be according to their Ghostly Fathers direction and limitation they must not take the Oath of Supremacy nor in some cases the Oath of Allegiance when it makes for the Catholick Cause And though to satisfie the Law and save his purse he come once a moneth to Church and heare your service yet Sermon he must not heare especially if the Preacher be Puritannicall for that might turn him quite from his Popery And thus such partly by their peaceable civill life and partly by their humble Popish Religious life so living and dying may be saved And therfore to such silly Ignorants we must not deny salvation Why so For first We have not so learned Christ say you Wee What wee Wee to wit you and your present Church of England And surely you had not need to deny salvation to that Church with which you and your Church is one and the same Church least otherwise you might leave your selves as little hope of salvation as others doe them But this is a piece of your learning of Christ it seems to beleeve that a silly ignorant Papist that knows not the right hand from the left that is drowned in Ignorance blindnesse superstition Idolatry Infidelity and as a drowned man knows it not may securely wrappe himselfe in the shrowd or mantle of his silly ignorance and so goe to heaven Thus have you learned Christ. But Wee Wee I say that renounce all communion with the Whore of Babylon and with all her Abominations have not so learned Christ as having heard him and been taught by him as the truth is in Iesus as to beleeve there is salvation to be hoped for of any but such as walke according to Christs rule and live and dye in his Faith And what 's Christs rule Even that which follows in the same place vers 22 To put off and renounce the former conversation of the Old Man which is corrupt according to the deceitfull lusts waâ—king v. 18. in the vanity of our minds having the understanding darkened being alienated from the life of God through ignorance as the Gentiles because of the blindnesse of their heart who being past feeling have given themselves to all â—â—sâ—viousnesse to worke all uncleannes with greedinesse Wherupon the Apostle addes But have not so learned Christ so as to thinke to be saved in a Heathenish life drowned in ignorance from which you cannot distinguish the life of an ignorant Papist except that it is infinitely more stupid and fuller of grosse ignorance and all abominations then the Heathen were and saving that Papists professe the name of Christians We have not I say so learned Christ. What is then the learning of Christ To put off the Old Man and that ye be saith the Apostle renewed in the spirit of your mind putting on the New man which after God is created in Righteousnesse and true Holinesse This is the learning of Christ. So as without this learning neither any silly ignorant Papist nor the most pregnant acute learned Arch-Prelate can be saved We must have both the Righteousnesse of justification by Faith imputed and of Sanctification of the spirit of Christ inherent and shining forth in a holy life and conversation It is not a Pope-holynesse in keeping of a Lent fast or worshiping of an Altar and such like counterfeit holines of mans devising This you learne not of Christ. For Christ saith In vaine they worship me teaching for Doctrines the Commadements of men or humane Traditions This holinesse saves not but shuts men out of the Kingdome of Heaven But secondly You call it stifnesse and churlishnesse in Protestants to deny all Papists salvation We shall by and by see your Charity to Papists which is so extreame great as we need not wonder at your malice against those some Protestants you speake it Is it stifnesse to avouch the truth And if they do bebaiousthai as the Apostle exhorteth Titus constantly affirme what not onely is truth but also necessary to be spoken as being a matter of such moment and consequence as concernes the savation of soules by denying salvation to whom it belongeth not and when men are seduced in a false perswasion therof call you this churlishnesse Certainly this churlishnesse in so denying is better then your charity in affirming a falshood Nay what will you say if this which you call churlishnesse be found to be true Charity when your Charity will be found to be deadly hatred against the soule of that silly ignorant Papist For true Charity ever consists with verity els it is no Charity but vanity Now those Protestants which deny salvation to all Papists living and dying in the Roman faith doe it upon sound and solid grounds even upon cleare evidence of Scripture For the Roman Faith is not the true Christian Faith as we have proved And without the true Christian Faith
no salvation And that one Doctrine of Justification by works were there no more which all Papists professe and hold is alone sufficient to shut out all Papists living and dying therein from salvation This being so cleare should Protestants grant notwithstanding a possibility of salvation to any Papist living and dying in that Romish faith they should utter a manifest untruth and falshood and so should bewray themselves to be notoriously uncharitable How First to Protestant Professors 2. to Papists To Protestant Professors causing the weake at least to waver in their faith and make them the apter to be seduced by Romish Priests and Jesuites who prevaile not a little with vulgar Protestants and that by this very Argument which you hold That Protestants yea the Primate of Canterbury grant a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church Whereas we say the Jesuites deny salvation to be had in the Protestant Church Although I hope they will not extend this to the Church of England which you say is one and the same Church with that of which Rome is Againe secondly Protestants in not affirming this truth Then it is impossible for any Papist living and dying in the Roman faith to be saved should be very uncharitable to the Papists themselves For seeing them running on in a way which is full of false ground and deep pits covered over with green leaves and the end whereof is certaine and unavoydable destruction should they not cry out unto them to abandon that way and by all meanes and speed to get them out of it they were very uncharitable And the Scripture calls this hatred of our Brother As Levit. 19.17 Thou shalt not hate thy brothâ—r in thy heart thou shalt in any wise rebuke him and not suffer sin upon him And for ignorant Papists we are not to cast off all hope of them but erranti comiter monstrare viam shew those wanderers the right way instructing them with meeknesse proving if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil being taken captive of him at his will Ob. But for Protestants to have no better an opinion of Papists and of their Religion would as you tell us before make the rent wider which you are loth to doe The rent is too wide so to be sowed up with the rotten thread of your Charity Nay such your Charity keeps Papists the further off from the true Protestant Religion when they may be provided of salvation nearer home and that so easily too But however the truth must be spoken as you â—old us before As Augustine saith in the point of Predestination at the Preaching whereof some in his dayes as too many in ours taking offence he answereth Numideo tacenda est veritas c. Is the Truth therfore to be concealed because some unjustly are offended with it to their damnation and not rather to be spoken that he which is able to receive it may receive it to his salvation And here the Papists take offence at Protestants for speaking the truth it is not scandalum datum but acceptum not an offence given but taken And though some take offence yet others weighing by reason may thereby through Gods grace forsake their errour and imbrace the truth If they will not we have freed our own soules and Truth is Truth still We must keep our distance and not because they will not come to us goe the halfe way at least to draw them to us as before As the Lord saith to his Prophet concerning revolted Israel Let them return unto thee but return not thou unto them And if thou take forth the Precious from the vile thou shalt be as my mouth We must not mingle and confound the precious and pure gold with the base drosse not truth with errour not light with darknesse Yet for your part you say Thirdly Not to deny Papists salvation living and dying Papists to wit in the Roman Faith is not mistaken Charity and if it be mistaken Charity is better then none at all But first we have shewed that this is no Charity at all but an erronious opinion arising from a spirit destitute of the Truth and too much in love with the Romish whore And Secondly such mistaken Charity is worse then no Charity at all in this kind It were better if ye had no such Charity For your Charity towards your silly ignorant Papists in perswading them that they are safe enough in any society of men and there is salvation for them living and dying in the Roman Faith is a nuzzling of them in their ignorance and like the Apes Charity to her young one a strangling of them with too much hugging and bewrayes you to be of the spirit of those false Prophets that strengthen the hands of the wicked that he should not return from his wicked way by promising him life that dawbe with untempered morter that call evil good and good evil that put darknesse for light and light for darknesse and wo to such that say peace peace when there is no Peace Ob. But you will say shall we shut out silly ignorant Papists from Gods mercy Nay you your selfe shut them out from Gods mercy while you shut them up in their blindnesse and so from the meanes of Gods mercy For meanes of mercy they have none in their Popish Religion and blind faith and therein you lull them fast asleep while you tell them so long as they are ignorant of the Errours of Popery they are safe among any part of men Thus you shut them out from Gods mercy as much as in you is when we by shewing them the truth and their errour would lead them to Gods mercy Nor doe we deny but God may in the riches of his Grace and mercy prevent and overtake a silly Papist in causing him to imbrace Christ by Faith even when he lyes on his death bed and truly beleeving in Christ and so dying he is undoubtedly saved But dying thus a true Beleever he dyes not in the Roman faith but in the saving faith of Christ which the Roman faith is not So as thus dying within the Verge of the Roman Church yet he dyes no member of the Roman Church but of the true misticall body of Christ. And this Charity we have towards silly Papists praying that God would shew them mercy in delivering them from under Antichrists yoake to take Christs yoake upon them and bring them out of darknesse into his marvellous light To proceed L. p. 294 295. Io. Frith saith Of the presense of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament that neither side ought to make it an Article of Faith but leave it indifferent And B. Ridley we confesse all one thing to be in the Sacrament onely we differ in modo in thâ— manner of Beeing P And of this of Ridley you say ibid. 'T is well if some
Protestants except not against it For this difference de Modo of the manner of the Presence of Christs naturall Body in the Sacrament we have spoken before at large And was this Difference trow you so small that cost both Ridley and Cranmer and Frith their lives For you cite them all 3 in one Page calling them the learned of those zealous in Queen Maries dayes Martyrs you do not call them beware of that So as times kà rin for honour sake you mention them not So you cite Calvin a little before whom in the High Commission you honoured with the Title of Rascall And these Martyrs are they whom one of your Divines of note and worth Dr. Heylin in a Booke licensed by your Chaplein stiles with the Honourable Title of Schismaticall Hereticks But to let this passe for currant with you The summe of your whole passage touching this point from pag. 292. to 296. is to perswade us to acknowledge a reall presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament onely differing from the Papists quoad moaum as touching the manner of presence Now I confesse this is a very pretty and ready way to lead to your Reconciliation But let me tell you even words and names and verball expressions are of no small force many times to lead men into great errours although at first they meant no harme that used them For instance The Primitive Fathers when they began to call the Lords Table an Altar they little dreamed what an Altar it would prove afterwards as wheron to offer up in sacrifice Christs naturall body So when they called Ministers Priests they imagined not that those Priests would prove afterwards such sacrificing Priests as now are in the Church of Rome And when they called the Lords supper a sacrifice which they meant to be Eucharisticall of thanksgiving they never suspected that this would become afterwards a corporall sacrifice of Christs very body and bâ—ood And yet these very Names so taken up gave occasion afterwards of setting up the greatest Idol that ever was in the world as we see at this day So dangerous is it to expresse Divine matters by any other Name then what the Scripture hath given them Seeing then that in Scripture we find no such words as Reall Presence of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament it is not safe for Christians to take them up And so much the more because we see by experience the mischiefes that this reall presence so called and so understood as the Papists doe hath done in the Church of God How many Martyrs hath it made How much innocent blood hath it spilt So as it hath gotten and that deservedly a very bad Name And it is the Name or Word wherby the Romanists expresse their Great Idol in the Masse And David saith Their Drinke offerings of Blood will I not offer nor take up their Names into my lips So as Christians ought not to use the Names of Idols invented by man to expresse Divine things of Scripture by Yea K. Hezechiah when the Brazen Serpent which God himselfe had commanded to be made for the present occasion in the Wildernesse though he commanded it not to be kept for a Monument began to be abused unto Idolatry he brake it to pieces And so in this case though these words The Reall Presence may beare a good sense yet being and that of long time abused to the setting up and upholding of most grosse Idolatry we are to stamp it to powder and never use it more And we have as little reason to be perswaded hereto by your Lordship as by any For as this word Reall presence is very suspicious in it selfe and much more in regard of the Papists abusing of it so it wants not suspicion that you so commend it unto us First in regard of the whole matter of your Book which generally complyes with Popery Secondly in regard of the main scope of your Booke which is to bring on a Reconciliation with Rome And Thirdly and more especially in regard of some speeches which have now and then dropped from you in publick Court where speaking of Altars-placing you said you would have none to sit above God-Allmighty which must needs imply as before is noted that either your Altar is your God Allmighty or els God Allmighty hath a locall presence and residence there upon your Altar And so Fourthly your eager zeale in promoting of Altars makes us much to suspect your Reall Presence as fearing all will not be well when once we have taken up and let down this Reall presence of God Allmighty into our bellies And so also Fiftly your Priests by that Name doe increase the suspition And Sixtly because you tell us before of a Transubstantiation taken properly and improperly And Seventhly Because you tell us by and by that Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup are but Disputed and Improbable Opinions Lastly it is used to Idolatry and so to be broken in pieces as the Brazen Serpent was And therfore for all these Reasons we desire not to be troubled with your Reall presence but leave it to the Papists or to you to restore it where you had it or if you like it so well to use it let it be to your selfe or Chappell at Lambeth trouble not the Church of England with it any more which desireth not more matter for a new Booke of Martyrs Now to come to the Martyrs First for Ioh. Friths words Not to make it an Article of Faith but leave it Indifferent First However the words sound we must weigh them by the sense And the best Commentary of his words is his death which he suffered even therfore because he made it an Article of his faith to beleeve that Christ was not Really Present in the Sacrament as the Papists do hold and therfore on the contrary he held it as an Article of his faith That Christ was onely vertually and spiritually present to the Faith of the Receiver according to the true meaning of those Sacramentall words This is my body as a little before we shewed Secondly to take Friths words in your sense doth overthrow a Christians faith as touching the Sacrament wherein the beleever receives and applyes by faith the merits of Christs death to the comforting nourishing and strengthning of his soule And a man is bound to beleeve aright concerning the Sacrament and to put a maine difference between truth and erroâ—â— therein And is it not an Article of Faith to beleeve Christs body not to be corporally present in the Sacrament seeing he saith Me have you not alwayes It is expedient for you that I goe away who sits at Gods right hand whom the heavens must receive till his coming againe And lastly admit his words may be stretched to the full bredth of your sense which is erronious wee must measure all mens words by the Rule of Scripture in divin matters If they dissent or come short or goe
over or besides consider men are men But I say we cannot conceive that those words of Iohn Frith could have any other sense then that which was sound and good considering as I said before he dyed for that very difference in Faith touching Christs presence in the Sacrament Now for Dr Ridley saying we differed in Modo in the manner 'T is true And the manner is the whole matter of difference Papists say Christs naturall Body is present we that the merit and vertue of his Body broken upon the Crosse and the merit and vertue of his Blood shed upon the Crosse is present to the beleeving soule in the Sacrament I may expresse it by this similitude of the Sun and the beames The body of the Sun is in heaven in its spheare locally and circumscriptively but the Beames are on the earth And when the Sun beames shine into our house we say here 's the Sun though it be the beames not the body of the Sun And so the Scripture saith of the Sacrament This is my Body because with the bread the faithfull Communicant receives the beames of Christs Body crucified into his soule his merits but not the Body it selfe But the Papists say as much as The very body of the Sun is in their house when it shineth But enough of this here having spoken sufficiently of it before Yet for a conclusion If your Lordship hold it to be a matter so indifferent about the manner of Christs naturall-bodyes presence in the Sacrament which you put upon the Martyrs if you were put to it as they were would you be of their mind and resolution rather to loose Canterbury life and 〈◊〉 then beleeve as the Church of Rome beleeves of the reall presence But I leave you to the Resolution L. p. 297. Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament are disputed and improbable Opinions yet so imposed as this may be enough for us to leave Rome though the Old Prophet forsooke not Israel 3 Reg. 13. And a little after And therfore in this present case ther 's perill and great perill of damnable both Schisme and Heresie and other sin by living and dying in the Roman faith tainted with so many superstitions as at this day it is and their Tyranny to boot P. I told you I feared some such thing when you commended last unto us the indifferencie of admitting of Termes of Reall Presence For now I perceive your Reall presence even in Transubstantiation it selfe is but an improbable and disputed opinion as also Purgatory and the Forbearance of the Cup. And by Disputed I suppose you meane Disputable such as either hath been disputed or may be disputed againe so as these things are matters of dispute and improbable And somtimes a thing that is improbable may prove true For Improbabile is not alwayes falsum It may seem improbable to us and yet be true in it selfe But for Transubstantiation is that which is clearly against Faith against Reason against the nature of Christs Body naturall against the nature of the Sacrament but an improbable opinion And for Purgatory Is that which is against Faith and overthrows the infinit vertue merit and efficacie of the blood of Christ but an improbable opinion And is that which you confesse to be against the expresse institution of our Saviour Christ as the taking away of the Cup in the Sacrament but an improbable opinion And doe you so favourably call that but a Forbearance which is a most notorious and shamelesse Sacriledge And then secondly All this say you may be enough for us to leave Rome May be Much may be but Is not I hope And so long well enough And though Actu it be yet not affectu But you might have said All this and much more besides if not onely disputable and improbable things but abominable and damnable But this is enough were there no more Yet say you the old Prophet forsook not Israel What then Ergo the Protestants though they might have had cause enough to leave Rome yet should have done rather as the old Prophet did not to have made a separation from Rome Ergo they were not so kind as the old Prophet But the old Prophet might continue in Israel upon better terms then the Protestants could have done in Rome For Israel had no Inquisition as Rome hath And you confesse that men might live in Israel and injoy the liberty of their Conscience seeing there was no Law made to restrain them from going to the one Altar at Ierusalem or to constrain them to sacrifice in the high places And yet that 's more then I beleeve can well be proved For those 7000. that had not bowed to Baal did hide themselves as not daring to professe and avow their Religion and Faith towards God as before So as it seems there was no open toleration in Israel for any to goe up to Ierusalem And it can hardly be thought that Ieroboam being a great Politician should give toleration to his subjects to goe up to Ierusalem to worship least they should fall back to Iuda againe for prevention whereof the two Calves were set up to keep the people at home The like policie used the High Priests Scribes and Pharisees to suppresse those that should confesse Christ in making a Decree to excommunicate them and so in puting Christ to death least his Kingdome should put down theirs And I hope your Hierarchy wants not the like policie for the rooting out of Puritans the true Professors and People of Christs Kingdome being Christs Kingdome and yours cannot consist together But you conclude somwhat dangerously when you say Therfore in the present case ther 's perill great perill of damnable both Schisme and Heresie and other sins by living and dying in the Roman faith tainted with so many superstitions as at this day it is and their Tyranny to boot This conclusion you apply not to the silly ignorant Papists for you leave them secure and out of danger as afore but to the knowing men of Rome having shewed them that though the silly ignorants may perhaps through the thick fogge and Aegyptian Myst of their palpable ignorance steale or stumble into heaven yet for the learned as A.C. and his fellowes 't is danger yea great danger to live and dye and that knowingly in the Roman faith But me thinks neither here do you buckle your selfe to such a serious businesse as this is so as to pull these wilfull men out of their puddle wherein they wittingly stick so fast You doe not with the spirit of zeale which Iude requires in good Ministers saying some save with feare aâ—prázontes snatching or plucking them out of the fire hating even the garment spotted with the flesh Nor doe you with Peters zeale tell these men save your selves from this crooked and wicked Generation such as the Scribes and Pharisees and High-Priests were But you onely tell them Ther 's danger great danger Of
whatsoever faith is requisite and necessary to salvation as the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God as is shewed before And this saving faith is the faith of all them that are heires of salvation to wit of all Gods Elect and all the Saints But it seems with Father Bellarmine you have an Implicit faith for your ignorants and an Explicit for you that are great Clerks or the letter of the Creed for those and the sense for these But I handled this also before Onely you propound a Paradox which is no worke for your pen wherein you are the wiser not to take upon you to read or expound such riddles had you been so wise as not to have propounded â— And yet it is the worke of every good Minister of Chrâ—â—t to teach the people what to beleeve and to exhort them to grow in Grace and knowledge and Faith and so declare unto them the whole Counâ—el of God and to keep nothing backe and to build men up in knowledge more and more unto perfection As the Preacher saith Because the Preacher was wise he still taught the people knowledge yea he gave good heed and sought out and set in Order many Proverbs The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words and that which was written was upright even words of truth The words of the wise are aâ— Goads and Nayles fastened by the Masters of Assemblies which are given from one shepheard But this is not a patterne for you to follow neither by your tongue nor pen. You have other imployment for them But though we cannot set a bound to faith in respect of perfection of degrees yet we ought to teach the people all the parts of saving faith and knowledge striving unto perfection And besides it is the duty of every good Minister of Christ to limit and set bounds to all the negatives of faith in discovering all manner of sins and errours which are all contrary and enemies to faith and salvation For which end they must open all the ten Commandements as Christ did Mat. 5. and all other points of saving Doctrine in the Scriptures Now though you have not the skill or will to set bounds how farre men shall beleeve yet you want no will nor power to inhibit and restraine Preachers shewing them how little a way they must goe in teaching the people and so consequently how little a way the people must goe in beleeving and saving knowledge as in restraining and forbidding to preach the Doctrines of Grace as before forbidding Lectures and especially all Sermonâ— on the Lords day afternoon forbidding long Preaching at any time forbidding expounding of the Catethisme as many of your Prelates doe and the like Thus you can finely set men bounds how little thy shall beleeve or know of God to their salvation That 's a worke if not for your pen or hand yet for your head and not unlikely of your hand and pen too L. p. 327. The Romanists dare not beleeve but as the Roman Church beleeves And the Roman Church at this day doth not beleeve the Scripture and the Creeds in the sense in the which the ancient Primitive Church received them P Dare they not How then say you there is possibility of salvation in the Roman Church for any when it condemneth and accurseth saving faith and justification thereby with other saving truths For if the Papists dare not beleeve but as their Church beleeves then they are bound to good behaviour they dare not beleeve to their salvation And if they dare not beleeve to their salvation then they cannot be saved And if they cannot be saved what possibility of salvation for them living and dying in that faith And here Why do you noâ— say in the sense of the Scriptures themselves and not of the Primitive Church But you doe not like the Scripture sense except the Church interpret it You allow not Scriptures to speake for or testifie for themselves You are the same man still And as we sayd before you doe wisely in that to stoppe the mouth of Scripture as Ahab did Michaiahs for it never speaks good of you but evil alwayes L. p. 232. I will acknowledge every fundamentall point of faith as proveable out of the Canon as we account it as if the Apochryphall were added unto it P. As if Apocryphalls were any divine proofe at all of the fundamentall points of faith in Scripture or ought any way in that respect to be so much as named with the Scripture Apocryphalls saith Ierome may be read for instruction of manners but not for confirmation of faith as before L. p. 336. I have lived and shall God-willing dye in that faith of Christ as it was professed in the ancient Primitive Church and as it is professed in the present Church of England P. As you handle the matter ther 's a vast difference between the faith of Christ professed in the ancient Primitive Church and that which is now professed in the present Church of England For the Ancient Primitive Church taken properly and strictly as somtime in your Booke as before you put it was that wherein the Apostles lived Now will ye be tryed by the Ancient Primitive Church of the Apostles held and professed What say you my Lord for your faith in this case Will you put your faith and Religion to the tryall of the most intire and upright Jâ—ry the Twelve Apostles Certainly if you decline this tryall 't is a shrewd suspicion that the faith of yours wherein you are so resolute to live and dye is not right Therfore for shame of the world you must at least professe or pretend that you wil be tryed by the the Faith and Religion which the Apostles and the true Church of God in their time as being the most Pure Prime Ancient Primitive Church held and professed First then That Primitive Church neither held nor professed nor practised any Hierarchicall government of Prelates or Bishops but have câ—ndemned it in their writings the Scriptures of the New Testament And yet I are say you resolve to live and dye Primate of Canterbury and Metropolitan of all England Secondly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their Age and time had no Altars but onely the Lord Iesus Christ Heb. 13.10 as it is formerly proved but you and your Church of England both set up and worship Altars and â—each the people both by your Books and practise to do so too and force Ministers to erect Altars or force them out of their Churches And this Faith and Religion also I dare say you resolve to live and dye in Thirdly The Apostles and the anciciâ—nt Primitiâ—e Church in their time celebrated and sanctified every Lords day in holy duties onely and in preaching as well in the afternoon as in the fâ—â—enoon never forbidding but still exhorting to preach in season and out of season giving no liberty to vaine and profane sports and Pastimes either upon
in the first act of beleeving but after the Will of man is but a little stirred and moved by a certaine Grace which they call the first Grace which they confesse not to be the saving and sanctifying Grace then thereupon they have the merit of Congruity to receive the second Grace whereby hope and charity come to be added to faith And this is the expresse Doctrine of Trent The Conclusion then is That neither the Lady nor any Papist living and dying in the Roman Faith nor your selfe nor any in the Church of England that hold and professe no other Faith then the Roman Faith can possibly be saved living and dying in that Faith and though you tell us againe with great confidence as a most certaine Truth that it is no mistaken Charity to grant a 〈◊〉 of salvation to a Papist living and dying in the Roman Faith yet we have so discovered this your Charity before as I Hope your Charity wil be no more so mistaken Onely here I must tell you withall that as you either wilfully or most ignorantly and 〈◊〉 rather mistake that one saving faith of the Apostle so doe you also that Charity which you say he teacheth you Doth the Apostle teach you such a Charity as teacheth you to beleeve and affirme that which is contrary to the cleare Truth of the Scripture is it your Charity to attribute a saving faith to the Church of Rome which without all Charity accurseth the onely true faith and the truly faithfull of Iesus Christ which professe that onely saving faith Whereas you must know that Charity which the Apostle there teacheth Rom. 14.4 alledged by you is in judgeing Charitably of your Brethren in the use of things indifferent For there the Apostle speaks of eating or not eating of observing a day or not observing whereupon he inferreth Who art thou that judgest anothers servant To his own Master he standeth or falleth so as in such cases Christians must judge Charitably and not rashly censure others that do not as themselves doe in things simply indifferent This is then the Charity which there the Apostle teacheth But have you learned this Charity of the Apostle You tell us This Charity the Apostle teacheth me The Apostle teacheth you true Charity but it doth not thereupon follow that you have learned that Charity of the Apostle Doe you deale so with your Brethren in the use of things indifferent as not to judge them this way or that way in the using or not using of them Doe you leave them to their own Master Christ to stand or fall Nay do you not cause them necessarily to fall by the stumbling blocks of your Ceremonies which you say are things indifferent and yet you impose such a necessity upon the observation of them as they altogether cease to be indifferent and become a yâ—ake of bondage to the People of God And if they be so strong that they will not thus fall down to your Ceremonies no more then the 3 Children would to the Kings Image what then What Charity use you then towards them Doe you leave them to their own Master to stand or fall Not such thing But you take upon you to be ther Master and Lord and to be their Judge and to Judge them while sitting in your High Commission Chaire you convent them censure them as by Suspâ—nding Silencing Depriving Degrading Dispossessing or Fining Imprisoning undoing of their wives and children and without all hope of remedy or mercy from you till they shall acknowledge the Justice yea and perhaps the Clemencie of your Court in dealling so mercifully with them This This is that Charity which you have learned and which you dayly put in practise so as in this kind never any was more zealously and fervently Charitable then your selfe But this Charity you never learned of the Apostles nor did he or Christ or any of the Apostles ever teach you any such Charity No sure This wisdome This Charity of yours as Iames speakes cometh not from above but is Earthly sensuall and Divelih If you have no other Charity but this the Lord deliver us from your Charity And so I leave you to your mistaken Charity Onely for Conclusion hereof Immediately before you tell us you will dye as you live in that faith professed in the Church of Engdand Here you say Rome holds the same faith Ergo as you live so you will dye in the Roman faith And secondly Ergo The Faith of the Church of England and of Rome is one and the same Faith as before you tell us they are one and the same Church and at after as pag. 3â—7 they are of one and the same Religion not different Thus you have made a fine Confusion and this you meane to make your finall Conclusion Such is your Faith such your Religion such your Charity all mistaken The foulest and fearefullest mistaken that ever any man was overtaken with L. p. 339. The truth is you doe hold new Devises of your own which the Primitive Church was never acquainted with And some of those so farre from being conformable as that they are little lesse then contradictory to Scripture P. And is it not as true that in holding new devises which the the Primitive Church of which we spake but now was never acquainted with you may shake hands with Rome and her Jesuites who may therfore retort upon you that of the Poet Parcius ista viris tamen objicienda memento Novimus et qui te Be sparing such things to us to object Who know the like do on your selfe reflect And we have shewed before how both Romes new devises and yours for they are all one and the same are not onely as you still mince the matter little lesse then contradictory to Scripture but doe directly overthrow the cleare and evident truth 〈…〉 and that also even in fundamentalls And what say you to Romes new-old devise of worshiping Images to instance in no more though I might in many yea in all Romes Popish Doctrines as Popish as before is it but little lesse then contradictory to Scripture Doth not the Scripture say Thou shalt not worship any graven Image And what saith Rome I pray you Or if you or she for modesty sake will not tell us or if she dare not say in plain and expresse termes and in form of a Precept Thou shalt worship Images yet aske her whorish practises and her pretty devises wherewith she allures her children to the adoration of them and that even to dotage as by promising them preâ—ty lakons and new-nothings as pardon of sins for so many yeares for praying so many Avies and Pater nosters before such a 〈◊〉 or Image is not this Equipollent to a Commandement yea their very setting up and adâ—ring these their gaâ— Gods in their Churches the place of worship is it not an inviting and silent whispering in the Peoples eares worship and fall down before these sacred Images and Reliques giving them
the same honour that you give to the Saints which they represent as divine honour to the Crosse and Crucifix as they teach as we have shewed Is not here a full and home contradiction to the Scripture For Contradiction is not onely in an expresse Negative but in an impiâ—â—â— Negation when such and such a Doctrine doth necessarily imply a contradiction to the Scripture And in this kind all the Doctrines of Popery whereof we have given sundry Instances before are direct contradictions to the truth of the Scriptures L. p. 340. It doth not follow since the Councel of Trent hath added a new Creed that this Roman faith is now the Catholick For it hath added extravea things without the foundation disputable if not false Conclusions to the Faith So that now a man may beleeve the whole and intire Catholicke faith even as St. Athanasiâ—â— requires and yet justy refuse for Drâ—sse a great part of that which is now the Roman faith P. Is it so then Hath the Councel of Trent added a new Creed and so Roman faith is not now the Catholicke but to be refused as drosse extraveous false without the foundation How then doth this agree with that faith which even now you confessed that the Church of Rome had and hath the saving Faith that One Faith of the Apostles as whereby a Papist living and dying in that Faith may be saved And if Rome hath added a new Creed how holds she still that one Faith And do not you beleeve Romes new Creed For what is this Creed That the Roman faith is now the Catholicke How is this then a new Creed That Romes faith is now the Catholicke For say you it hath added extravious things without the foundation Disputable if not false conclusions to the Faith Is this all Parâ—urient Mâ—ntes I expected here some monstrous evidence against the Church of Rome when you began to tell us she had brought forth a new Creed But this your Rumor will not be taken for a Creed without some sounder proofe then we see you yet bring for all your faire florish For what 's this new Creed Alas a poore Cento patcht up of certaine extravious things What without the Foundation Good enough yet so long as nâ— Canon against the Foundation or a mine of Powder to blow up the foundation Onely without the foundation Alas that 's not worth the talking of If the new Creed be of things onely without the foundation you may leave them out of your Creed as things not necessary to be beleeved or at least not to be beleeved of all Christians alike as you teach us before and Bellarmine too that All things de fide are not necessary to be beleeved of all men or are not necessary to salvation And perhaps Bellarmine means Romes new Creed you speak of which though the Councel of Trent hath made it to be de fide yet it is not necessary for every man to beleeve it or not absolutely necessary for every mans salvation But what more 2. Disputable As you sayd before Disputed Quâ—stions Disputed and Disputable still Ergo what can you make oâ— such a Creed at the worst but some disputable matter not yet sufficiently discussed though determined in the Councel of Trent and sit perhaps to be reserved to be determined upon some clearer demonstrations in your next Generall Councel whose Decrees then true or false shall be received as your Creed And as we said before things Disputable may yet prove to be truth being throughly scanned and thus Romes neâ—â— Creed may prove as Credible as you call it disputable But any more yet yes if not false conclusions If Which receiving a faire interpretation from your mouth may be all one as if you had said Nâ—t false Conclusions because as yet Disputable And while things are but disputable and in dispute they are as yet no false Conclusions For the Premisses of the Argument must goe before the Conclusion But yet your Conclusion is somwhat 〈◊〉 For you say A man may beleeve the whole and intire Catholick faith and yet justly refuse for drosse a great part of that which is now the Roman faith What Drosse And Iusâ—ly refuâ—e as Drosse What are you that man that may doe thus And will you doe thus Nay you for your part have bound your hands from taking any thing as drosse which Rome hath put in her new Creed For those things even the worst of them you say are disputable Therfore not yet concluded and determined for Drosse And if you shall now take those things for drosse which with you are but disputable how can you justly doe it For if mettall be in dispute among the râ—siners it is not presently doomed for drosse being yet in their best judgements but disputable the Test must first try it whether it be drosse or not And so it is the Test or the Testaments of Christ that must try all false mettals shine they never so gold like and discover and condemne them for Drosse And surely my Lord your single judgement through never so singular will never be taken by any as solid enough to preponderate the Decrees of a whole Councel as Trent to conclude those Decrees to be Drosse both after you have called them but disputable and after Rome hath Decreed them for her new Creed But you goe no further yet then Posse a man may take them c. And you may in time come actually to take those disputables for no Drosse but good Currant Coine not onely passing for Currant in Rome but also in England as holding the same Creed and being one Church So as a little more Allay then Ordininary shall not disable the currantnesse of it And what is there in all Romes new Creed of Trent which you say is of things Disputable which is any worse drosse but rather as good silver as those her Altars and oâ—her superstitions which you have borrowed of her Which were they but soundly disputed would prove drosse indeed as formerly also is proved Againe here you confine the whole and intire Catholicke faith to Athanasius his Creed You might have at least taken in the other two Creeds to boot and yet not all of them together will make up the adequate Rule of the whole and intire Catholicke faith For the Catholicke faiths full latitude whole and intire cannot be measured but by the line and Rule of Scriâ—ture alone The onely túpos didâ—kus as the Apostle caâ—ls 〈◊〉 the Matrix or Mold wherein faith must be cast 〈◊〉 to receive its perfect forme which is not cannâ—â— be whole and intire but as it is according to the whole and 〈◊〉 Scripture conformed And you adde L. p. 3â—2 No man can properly be said to beleeve the whole Creed that beleeves not the whole sense as well as the letter of it and as intirely P. Now you told us before that Rome hath lost the sense of the Creed at least in some things
whence I conclude upon your own words that Rome holds not beleeves not the whole Creed and consequently she hath lost and overthrown the whole Creed For overthrowing the sense of any one Articlâ— she overthrows the whole as before And in a word the Church of Rome overthrows the whole Creed in overthrowing the first word of it Credo I beleeve which gives denomination life and beeing to the whole And a maine flaw in the foundation overthrows the whole building And that Rome doth this is cleare for as she hath made a new Creed all of drosse so she hath coyned a new sense to the Credo of the old Creed For she doth not beleeve the Creed with a saving justifying lively faith as is shewed before but hath cancelled and accursed it in her Councel of Trent And so though she hold Credo Deum beleeving that there is a God as even the Heathen doe for quae gens tam barbara c. what nation so barbarous that beleeves not there is a God as the heathen Roman Orator sayd yet she doth not hold any other Creed of God For she holds not simply and absolutely no more then you Credo Deo beleeving God speaking in the Scripture but dependently upon the Authority and Interpretation of the Church And least of all doth she hold Credo in Deum which is the justifying and saving Faith as Augustine Bernard and others of the more Ancients distinguish and define For as Bernard saith Credere in Deum est credendo diligere credendo in eum ire ei uniri c. To beleeve in God is by beleeving to love God by beleeving to goe into him and to be united unto him Now this faith Romes is not for as is shewed before out oâ— the Councel of Trent their faith is without love and doth not goe into God but with which going to hell they are separate from God for evermore So as the Article or Decree of Trent having destroyed the old Credo in Deum she must have some new Credo or els none at all And you doe ibid. rightly interpret the word Vâ—gâ—ès which Athanasius expresseth the â—ustifâ—iâ—g faith of the Creed by namely sound and intire so as if it be not a sound and intire faith such as the Scripture commends and is proper to all true Beleevers the Elect a 〈…〉 is to no purpose And a little after you say 〈…〉 This is true Divinity that he which hopes for salvation 〈…〉 who le Creed and in the right sense too if he be able to 〈…〉 it P. Till this If hem'd in with a Parenthesis I was halfe in hope you had assented to my former speech That the Church of Rome in not holding the right sense of the Creed overthrâ—ws the whâ—le But your Parenthesis so hedgeth in your silly ignorant that it is a sanctuary to secure their ignorance from Râ—mâ—s damnation so as though they have no hope of salvation yet they are in no feare of Romes damnation as being not able to beleeve the whole Creed because not able to comprehend the right sense of it within the narrow circumference of their shallow brainpan But behold closse by another hedge L. p. 343. To hold the Creed inviolate is not as I take itâ— the holding of the true sense but not to offer violence or a forced seâ—se and meaning upon the Creed which every man doth not that yet beleeves it not a true sense For not to beleeve the true sense of the Creed is one thing but 't is quite another to force a wrong sense upon it P. Thus still the Lady and all silly ignorant Papists if ever by their blindnesse they shall happen to stumble upon salvation trusting to the meere simplicity of their ignorance living and dying in the Roman faith not knowing what it is nor able to beleeve any one Article of the Creed in a right sense may thank you for thus incouraging them upon this hope of possibility of an impossible salvation And the case stands thus The Church of Rome in her Councel of Trent hath put a forced sense upon the Creed and so hath made a violation of the faith This forced sense Romes Clergie in the Catechisme of Trent forceth and presseth upon their blind people to beleeve Now tell me What difference is there between the forcing of a false sense upon the Creed which the Councel of Trent hath done and all Romes Clergy conveys the false sense if any at all as â—ank poyson into the minds of their Blindlings so farre as they are capable of any errour being capable of nothing els and the voluntary receiving and imbracing of that false sense and that not onely in beleeving it but so obstinately adhereing to it as they will not they dare not as you befoâ—e confesse beleeve otherwise though the truth be tendered unto him which is the generall condition of all ignorant Papists And being in this case what way now can you find out for them which may bring these misbeleevers or rather no-beleever to salvation What hope can you give them that have no faith And what faith can they have that cannot belâ—eve that cannot may not dare not have no meanes to comprehend the râ—ght sence of the Creed but the forced sense that Rome puts upon it and them L. p. 349. As for Origen I thinke he was the first founder of Purgatory P. This here of Purgatory bordering so neere your last Passage of your misbeleeving Papists gives me occasion to imagine how necessary it were for you to be the first Inventer of some other place in hell like unto that Limbus Infantum where provision may be made to intertaine your silly Infant-Papists that are not able to give any one reason of that hope of salvation which you force upon them and which you have been the first inventer of That as Popish Infants dying without Baptisme goe to their Limbus where they are sensible neither of joy nor paine so your silly ignorants having no sense of any true faith and knowledge of God or of themselves here when they dye they may goe to such a like place or Limbus where they may neither injoy blisse nor suffer paine But a word of Purgatory in the mean time For the first Founder of it in my poore reading I find the Heathen Plato For he tells us as of 3 sorts of men in this world some very good and some starke nought and some indifferent so he fits 3 places for these 3 sorts after this life 1 Elysium the Elysian fields meaning thereby a place of pleasure as Paradise into which went those immediately who were very good 2. Hell whither the very worst went 3. a middle place or lake into which the moderate or indifferent men were cast after death and after a certaine time there as a yeare or two or more as they were lesse or more good or bad being well purged were cast forth againe Whence they went into the Elysian fields
of England doth Againe you make it no great matter of difference in this case between your Protestant and the Romanist whither this or that goe to each others Church so his Conscience put not a barre As you tell us a little after That the Church of Rome and the Protestants do not set up a different Religion Of which in its place And here also you put no difference but that the Romanist doth as well serve and worship God after his Roman manner in his Idolatrous Masse as your Protestant doth after your English manner And perhaps the difference will not be found so great between you but that you will well enough agree when you have cast up your reckoning But now what if one of your simple Protestants be not resolved in Conscience of the profession of the truth in the Church of England more then of that in the Church of Rome Is it not then lawfull for him to goe to the Romish Masse With â—ou it seems so so his Conscience hinder him not And what Conscience hath your ignorant Protestant to hinder him in this case Nay I will say more What knowing Protestant have you at this day in the present Church of England since the publishing of your Declaration before the 39 Articles which makes some of the principall of them to beare a double and contrary sense that is or can be resolved in his Conscience that either the true faith or so much as the Profession of the true faith is in the Church of England For those Articles which containe the Doctrine of your Church you confesse to be ambiguous and doubtfull and doe not resolve either way but leave your Church in suspense how then can any Protestant of the Church of England be resolved in Conscience that the Profession of the true faith is in the Church of England when neither your selfe seems to be resolved or at least you doe not resolve your Church concerning your Articles what to beleeve Which being so may you not fairely hence conclude that it is lawfull for any Protestant of the Church of Engdaud to goe to the Romish Church there and in that manner to serve and worship God untill he shal be resolved in his Conscience that the profession of the true faith is in the Church of England which resolution is not like to be till your Lordship hath resolved them which is the true and orthodox sense of your Articles and that by a publicke edâ—ct athenticke and every way equall to the former as in the case of Generall Councels when the errours of one must be obeyed till another equall to that shall reverse it As before But in the meane time unlesse you make the more hast with your Edict for Resolution your whole Church of England is now at liberty to goe to Masse and so to turne Romanist as having nothing to restrain them were there but Masses enough to intertaine them as no doubt there be Priests enough for the purpose had they but Churches so long as their Conscience is not resolved of the profession of the true faith in the Church of England And so the Broad Gates are set upon for the Consummation of your so much wished and plotted Reconcliation with the Church of Rome And you adde L. p 376. Nor do the Church of Rome and the Protestants set uâ— a different Religion fâ—r thâ— Christian Religion is the same to both but they differ in the same Religion and the difference is in certaine grâ—ssâ— corruptions to the very indangering of salvation which each side sâ—yâ—s the other is guilty of P. By Protestants here 't is plain enough you mean those of the Church of England not those of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas I am sure of it For they utterly renounce the Romish Religion and Faith as Antichristian which you avow for Christian the same with yours But they differ say you in the same Religion How They do not set up a different Religion and yet they differ in the same Religion I understand not this Babylonish language But wherein then doe they differ in the same and undiffering Religion In some certaine grosse corruptions say you But in some not in all grosse corruptions which are indifferent and common to you both And what grosse corruptions are common to both those shall not be put in the reckoning of corruptions at all each covering other with the mantle of Charity Yea such as you both agree in are the very substance of your Religion And the whole substance of the Romish yea of all Christian Religion saith Bellarmine is the Masse This then must be That same undiffering Christian Religion which you both set up And herein how much doe you dister Have you not both your Altars the main substance on the service whereof all the rest attend as your Priests Sacrifice Images Crucifixes Adorations Organs curious musicke and many other devises for your pompous service your Liturgie differing more in the language then in the matter and forme But you will say you differ in Transustantiation Yet you are willing to have a reall Presence confessed and professed with you as is noted before But you say the difference is in certaine grosse corruptions indangering salvation On which side Each side say you charges other I have heard two butter women scold and each layd to other grievous things and the one said Thou playdst the whore and the other sayd Thou playdst the whore Which of these trow you was the honester Woman She haply that had lesse playd the whore then the other which perhaps was not for want of will but opportunity You and Rome charge each other with grosse corruptions which yet are one and the same in both Doth not thus the shame of both the more appeare Your grosse corruptions on both sides can agree well enough if you can be quiet Yea and that to the indangering of Salvation too For have you not to be silent in the rest both your Altars which are alone sufficient to sacrifice upon all your faith and salvation and so to leave you neither faith nor salvation in Christ as whom also you sacrifice thereon together with your faith and salvation For we shewed before that your Altars doe overthrow and deny Iesus Christ the onely Altar of true beleevers If then you both doe agree in the grossest corruptions as those whereby your salvation is not onely indangered but destroyed which is the maine of your Religion wherin you differ not what need there be any oddes between you for the rest Both sides complain of each other both have their corruptions and grosse ones too such as overthrow salvation Then let your conscious ingenuity confesse to each other and your conscientious Charity pardon each other And so let the world be troubled no more with your Differences but be good friends and agree as sisters L. p. ibid. It may appeare by all the former Discourses to any Indifferent Reader that Religion as it is
giving her hope that she might be saved living and dying in the Roman faith Is it so easie trow you to send such a Lady to heaven securely wrapped in the Mantle-lap of her silly ignorance But what if she be now in hell Are not you guilty of her damnation by muzzling her in her blind ignorance as wherein onely you taught her to place the hope of her salvation But you told her of some danger But you did not possesse her with such a feare of the danger as both there was cause and you should have done as you puffed her up with the hope of safety and that in the onely confidence of her silly ignorance so as her vain hope overcame just feare And if now by this meanes she be in hell as you set her in the ready high way look you to it Paries cum proximus ardâ—t Tunc tua res â—gitur if she by your leading be fallen into the pit what is like to befall you the leader when the blind leading the blind both fall into the pit But if God hath had mercy on her it was not since her death by delivering her out of Purgatory iâ— she dyed a Papist but before her death by delivering her from her Popery worse then any Purgatory causing her to renounce and repent of that and to beleeve in his mercy and Christs merit onely for salvâ—tion without which faith of Christ â—here is no hope of mercy And we shewed before that this faith of Christ is not the Roman faith but quite opposit unto it L. p. â—88 But 't is time to end especially for me that have so many things of weight lying upon me and disabling me from these Polemâ—ck â—isccurses besides the burthen of sixty five yeares compleat which draw on a pace to the period set by the Prophet David Psal. â—0 and to the Time that I must goe and give God and Christ an account of the Talent committed to my Charge in which God for Christ Iesus sake be mercifull to me who knows that however in many weaknesses yet I have with a faithfull and single heart bound to 〈◊〉 free Grace for it laboured the meeting the blessed meeting of Truth and Peace in his Church and which God in his own good time will I hope effect To him be all Honour and Prayse for ever Amen P. How fitly doth this your Conclusion suit with and succeed that which was last mentioned as matter for your more serious and sad meditation and which I cannot but tremble 〈◊〉 And well weighing also the words of this your Conclusion with all that you have written in this your Booke and with all your Practises in your life all so uniforme and sutable I am surprized with great astonishment The reasons hereof will further appeare in the more particular animadversions upon your words asunder And because we use to take most speciall notice of a mans last words give me lâ—ave to take a full and particular view of yours here as being though not the last words of a dying man yet the finall Conclusion of this your Booke which so soon as I have read over it passeth away tanquam Fabula as the Prophet speaks of a mans life as a taâ—â— thâ— is told And as we looke thaâ— however you have dealt in your Book yet in the close of all you should deale candidly ingeniously and cordially and not dubble with God and the world and with your own Conscience yet for my part as the Spirit of sincerity and truth without flattery or respect of Persons where the truth is wronged hath rnd doth run through all the veines of this my Reply to your Relation so I shall by Gods grace close all with the same spirit not sparing you to the last where still you give just cause And the truth cannot better nor more seasonably be spoken home then as to a dying man who though he have been never so notorious an hypocrite and desperate man in the Course of his life yet when he lyes upon his death-bed and utters some words which seem to savour of some sensiblenesse of his Condition then if ever there may be some hope of working upon him as when the yron is hot by putting home unto him and laying before him his former life that so at the last though late as the Thiefe on the Crosse he may through Gods mercy be brought to repentance and so to salvation Although examples of such penitents indeed and in truth be very rare For as one observeth One Thiefe was saved on the Crosse that none should dâ—spaire and but one that none should presume â—or the saying too ordinarily proves true Qualis vita finis itâ— As a man lives so he dyes And Paenitentia sera rarò vera Late Repentance is seldome true And the Prophet gives the reason of it Can the Ethiopian change his hew or skin Or the Leopard his spots Then may ye also do good that are accustomed to doe evil For as one â—aith Consuetudo peccandi tollit sensum peccaâ—i Custome of sinning takes away the sense of sin And where there is noâ— sense of sin there can be no Repentance for sin And therfore commonly when a man that hath lived wickedly and hath been used to lying and dissembling all his life comes to â—ay on his death bed or at the last gaspe Lord have mercy upon me however we may not judge him leaving him to his Judge yet this is no sufficient argument to perswade us that this is 〈◊〉 Repentance For lightly when such men promising and vowing it God restore them to reforme their life do recover they â—â—turn â—s the Scripture speaks with the dog to his vomit and with 〈…〉 that is washed to her wallowing in the mire According to that 〈◊〉 or Apologie 〈◊〉 Daemon Monachus tunc esse volebat 〈◊〉 Daemon nec tamen est Monachus Which 〈…〉 thus 〈…〉 was 〈◊〉 the Deâ—il a Monke would be 〈…〉 was well the â—evil a Monke was he But I must not doe you wrong in applying of these things to you or that I have any hope of doing good upon you even now at last in the close of all seeing you give me no incouragement of hope at all this way For in all this your Closse not a word expressing the least sorrow for your most enormious iniquites but on the contrary you justifie them and glory in them Wherein you shew the pride of your heart to be out of measure desperate and not to be named with the pride of that Pharisee For though he gloryed in himselfe yet he gloryed not in his evil but in those things that were in themselves good and commendable and for which he gave God thanks as the Author of them but here I find a proud Prelate vaunting in his impiety and in all his wicked practises the ayme whereof is to reconcile the Church of England and that of the Whore of Babylon together and all under a faire pretence
have stopped all the Ministers mouthes binding them to peace and externall obedience Although I cannot yet conceive how that Declaration should be the Church of Englands though published in the Kings Name and perhaps compiled in the Conclave of Canterbury And thus also that Order for the Altar of S. GREGORIES which yet is but Dormant in Cryptis not published in Print in which respect it cannot be called the Declartion of the Church yet must be of force to bind all Ministers to Peace and Obedience first to Peace not to speake a word against Altars for his Eares and next to Obedience that if he refuse to have an Altar set up in his Church himselfe shal be made a Sacrifice But why should such an Order thus bind I must crave pardon for making Question And the rather because your Lordship here gives us a Rule or Canon saying The Churches Declaration can bind us to Peace and externall Obedience where there is no expresse Letter of Scripture and Sense agreed on Now though we have expresse Letter of Scripture proving Christ to be the onely Altar of Christians as before is shewed yet because this sense is not agreed on by your Lordship and so by your present Church of England therefore men must be peaceable and obedient in that point and quietly submit to Authority in the admitting and the Adoring too if you will of Altars in every Church And so in all other your superstitious Ceremonies of what force is the expresse Letter of the Scripture where the Sense of it is not by you and your Church agreed upon To give an Instance or two more This is my Body the Sense of these words is not agreed on between your Church of England and that of Rome though you are in Substance both one Church what then Ergo Ministers are bound to Peace and Obedience in not medling to or fro with the manner How Christ is present in the Sacrament though your Article of the Lords Supper doth declare it both affirmatively and negatively how it is and is not but to content themselves with Really which is a very peaceable word about which Rome and you have no great reason to fall at oddes Againe for bowing at the nameing of the Name Iesus although you have no expresse Letter of Scripture for it no not Phil. 2.10 where it is Said En to onómati In or as your Translation hath it at the name of Iesus every knee should bow but it is not Said En to onomazethai tò onoma Iesoun or Iesous In the naming of the name Iesus every knee should bow So as that place is plainly expounded and agreed on by other places of Scripture as Isa. 45.23 and Rom. 14.10 as some of your old English Bibles note those places in the Margent over against the place as in that of Isaiah there is set in in the Margent Rom. 14.10 and Phil. 2.10 all which three places unanimously shew the universall Subjection of all Creatures in heaven and earth and under the earth to Christ in the day of Iudgement yet because this Sense is not agreed on by the present Church of England therefore her Declaration in her Canon binds all to Peace and Obedience to Peace in not speaking or writing against bowing at the nameing of the name Iesus nor in preaching to expound the Letter of Scripture Phil. 2.10 by the plain sense of other Scriptures as afore cited and to Obedience by bowing themselves when they heare that Name to be named So as your Lordships Rule here is very usefull for many things although you have neither Letter nor Sense of Scripture for them L. p. 32. The power of adding any thing contrary and detracting any thing necessary are alike forbidden No power of the Church can doe this P. This Sentence you alledge out of Vincentius and allow it So as it is to be accounted your owne Confession which I suppose you will not deny Whereupon you with your Church fall under just condemnation both for adding things contrary and detracting things necessary For you adde to the service of God as you call it your Altars and sundry other superstitionâ— which the Scripture excludes and condemnes and so are contrary and you detract things necessary as Preaching of the saving Doctrines of Grace Preaching on the Lords dayes in the after noon Preaching Week-day Lectures and Cathechising by expounding the Grounds of Religion Which things are necessary profitable and usefull to the people of God and which God commaundeth as 2 Tim. 3.15.16 and 4.1.2 Gal. 6.6 Let him that is Katekoúmenos Cathechised in the word communicate To katekounti to him that Catechiseth or instructeth him in all good things Thus you and your Church take upon you to do those things which are alike forbidden and which no power of the Church can doe though you can L. p. 35. Wrangle while you will you shall never be able to prove that any thing which is but de modo a consideration of the manner of being onely can possibly be fundamentall in the Faith P. Wrangle I will not but prove that some things which are de modo considered in the manner of being onely not onely may possibly but are really in that very respect fundamentall in the Faith So as to deny them or not to beleeve them is in it selfe damnable And hereof I shall give some Instances 1. Christs body in receiving of the Sacrament is to be considered in the mâ—nnâ—r of its being present to the beleeving Communicant In so much as to exclude such manners of being present as doe destroy either the Article of his perpetuall Residence in heaven till his câ—ming againe or the truth of his Naturall Body doth deny and destroy two Articles of the Faith 1. touching Christs sitting 〈◊〉 tâ—e rigâ—â— hand of God from whence he shall come to Judgemâ—â—â— and 2 ly that he was borne of the Virgin Mary with a true humane body As the Papists apprehending and beleeving Christs naturall body to be locally present in the Eucharist doe thereby overthrow his perpetuall residence in heaven till his coming againe and withall the truth of his naturall body which being a true naturall body with all its naturall properties cannot be locally or corporally in many places at one and the same time which yet the corporall presence in the Eucharist doth necessarily import And if the truth of Christs naturall body be destroyed as by the Manichees and other Hereticks Christ is wholly evacuated and shall profit nothing Besides this Popish beliefe of Christs corporall Presence in their Eucharist makes Christs natural body which hath its dimensions of length breadth thicknesse to be a meere fantasticall and imaginaâ—y body as being contained within the narrow circle and compasse of a thinne Wafer-cake and so they destroy Christs body And so also in that they beleeve they eat this body of Christ which is to destroy it as 1 Cor. 6.13 And this beliefe of Christs corporall presence as aforesaid
destroyes spirituall communion with Christ and with the Holy Ghost and consequently the Article of faith concerning the Communion of Saints For Christ saith to his Disciples I tell you the truth it is expedient for you that I goe away for if I goe not away the Comforter will not come unto you but if I depart I will send him unto you So as to beleeve Christ to be corporally present on earth and that men have by that meanes a corporall communion with him doth debarre such men from all communion of the Spirit of Christ. And If any man have not the Spirit of Christ the same is none of his He hath not Christ that hath not his Spirit and he hath not Christs Spirit that rests in the beliefe of Christs corporall presence on earth as before For except I depart saith Christ that is except I be absent from you as concerning my corporall presence the Comforter will not come unto you And thus by a false beliefe of the very manner onely of Christs presence in the Popish Eucharist Christ the Foundation is overthrowne And this errour de modo of the manner of being onely overthrowing the Foundation must needs be a Fundamentall errour if any errour may be said to be Fundamentall My Second Instance is about Christs humane Nature de modo Subsistendi of its manner of subsisting in the Person of the Son of God For to beleeve that it is either after the manner or way of Commixtion or by adherence as one thing cleaving to another or Inherence as an Accident in the Subject or by Conversion into the divine nature or by Concomitancie as Bellarmine saith Christs divinity and soule is present with his body in the Eucharist by Concomitancie all these manners doe destroy the personall union of Christs two natures in one person As those two Hereticks Nestorius and Eutiches the one condemned in the Councel of Ephesus the other in the Councel of Chalcedon the later for holding that Christ had but one Nature the humane converted into the Divine Nature the other that Christ had two Persons both these destroyed Christ the Mediator who is not a Mediator unlesse he be both God and Man in one Person Christ. So Bellarmines devise in holding Christs divine nature and humane soule to be present in and with that body which they frame unto him in the Masse by way of Concomitancie as being inseperable companions destroyes the Sacrifice of Christs Passion wherein the soule of Christ was in death seperated from his body untill his Resurrection Now the Papists say they offer up Christs body in the Masse as representing the Sacrifice of his death and Passion Which how can it be when they say his soule is by concomitancie with his body offered up So as all this while there is no representative or Commemorative much lesse a propitiatory Sacrifice of Christs death Seing in that body as they say Christs soule is inseperably present And againe to say Christs divine nature is present with that body of Concomitancie this destroyes the Personall union For Concomitancie is no personall union of the two natures concomitancie being but an accompanying of each other Whereas the divine nature of Christ doth not accompany the humane nature but assumes it and the humane nature doth not accompany the divine but subsists in it Thus it is cleare that the Consideration of the manner of being onely may possibly prove to be Fundamentall in the Faith L. p. 37. All which pertaines to Supernaturall Divine and infallible Christian faith is not by and by fundamentall in the Faith to all men P. You told us before That things not fundamentall yet to some mens Salvation are necessary and here that all that pertaines to Christian faith is not fundamentall in the faith to all men It seems you have some peculiar way to heaven which is not common to all But take heed least leaving the common road-way of true Saving Faith attended with a holy life you fayle of heaven I am the way the Truh and the Life saith Christ. And is not Christ this way Truth and Life to all that are Saved Is not he to all such as are called both Iewes and Greekes Christ the Power of God and the Wisdome of God But what doe I speake to you of Christ or what doe you speake of Christian faith that know not what Christian faith is otherwise then as you discerne in it some thing for which in whomsoever you find it you persecute it to the death L. p. 39. If new Doctrines be added to the old the Church may be changed in Lupanar errorum which I am loth to English P. Nay are you not ashamed to English it For this you Speake of the Church of Rome and you have told us that the Church of England and of Rome are one and the Same Church And now you Say If new Doctrines be added to the old the Church may be changed in Lupanar errorum And this the Church of Rome hath done as you elsewhere affirme She hath added new Doctrines to the old and such new as She doth with the old aâ— men doe when they put on a new suit make the old a Cast suit But because you are loth to English in Lupanar errorum for the reverend respect you beare to that Venerable Apostolick Sea I will doe as much for you as to English it If new Doctrines be added to the Old as the Church of Rome hath done the Church may be changed into a Stewes of Errours This Phrase you take out of Vincentius Lyrenensis his Sentence quoted in the Margent which is this in English The Church by adding new Doctrines to the old becomes a Stewes of impious and beastly Errours which was before a Sacrary of chast and undefiled verity Whence I note how you not onely smother some of his words but smooth others Saying for The Church becomes a Stewes The Church may be changed So as herein you falsify the worthy Saying of Vincentius when you make but a May be of his Is made But let the Conclusion be If a Church be turned Whore 't is good that all should know her to be so in plain English that they may avoyd her and as Salomon saith remove their way farre from her and not come neere the dore of her house And for this Cause have I taken the Paines to be your Translator L. p. 39. Some Decisions yea and of the Church toâ— are made or may be if Stapleton informe us right without an evident nay without so much as a probable testimony of holy writ But Bellarmine falls quite off and confesses in expresse termes that nothing can be certaine by certainty of Faith unlesse it be contained immediately in the word of God or be deduced out of the word of God by evident consequence And if nothing can be certain then certainly no Determination of the Church it selfe if that Determination be not grounded upon