Selected quad for the lemma: faith_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
faith_n	believe_v	church_n	tradition_n	5,645	5	9.4779	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09061	An ansvvere to the fifth part of Reportes lately set forth by Syr Edvvard Cooke Knight, the Kinges Attorney generall Concerning the ancient & moderne municipall lawes of England, vvhich do apperteyne to spirituall power & iurisdiction. By occasion vvherof, & of the principall question set dovvne in the sequent page, there is laid forth an euident, plaine, & perspicuous demonstration of the continuance of Catholicke religion in England, from our first Kings christened, vnto these dayes. By a Catholicke deuyne.	Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.	1606 (1606)	STC 19352; ESTC S114058	393,956	513

Attorneyes cō●onlie are presumed to haue vvho must speake ●o the purpose hovvsoeuer it be to the truth And ●● it vvell appeared in that arraignment vvherof ●e novv treat but intend to proceed no further ●●erein for that the prisoner himself ansvvered this point sufficientlie at the barre as also to the Lordes before in the tovver and a more large discourse maie be made therof hereafter if neede shall require 19. As for your other article about the Antiquity and continuance of your Church a man maie easily see that you sought an occasion to bring it in by making an obiection on the behalfe of Iesuitts against the same and thereby to shevv your skill in ansvvering They hold their religion saie you to be the old Religion where ours is the new confyned to England where on the contrary side their Religion is vniuersall and embraced in the greatest part of this Christian worlde And thus for the maintenance of their rotten Religion doe they seeke to disgrace and blemish our Ghospell But good syr if your ghospell be that of the foure Euangelistes novv receaued vve pretend that it is as much our ghospell as yours and more also for that you receaued it from vs and vpon our Churches credit and for that you call rotten Religion if euer it vvere Religion then neuer can it rott except you put no difference betvvene apples and religion But let vs heare hovv you vvill ansvvere this obiection in your ovvne vvordes as they came set dovvne vnto me from your ovvne mouth 20. But to this saie you I will answere that if our Ghospell be as ancient as Luther it is more ancient then the Iesuitts are though not I trovv then Iesuitts religion albeit it be not conteyned in these narrow limitts of place nor bands of time which they feignedly imagine hauing byn euer since the time of Christ and his Apostles For we doe not deny but that Rome was the mother-Church and had thirty two virginall martyrs of her Popes a-row so continued til in succeeding ages it brought in a masse of errors and idle ceremonyes But you will aske perhaps where our Church lurked before Luthers coming for some hundreds of yeares But I say it makes no great matter where it was so that I ●m certaine it was for as a wedge of gold if it be dissol●ed and mixed with a masse of brasse tinne and other metalls doth not loose his nature but remaineth gold still although we cannot determine in what part of the masse it is conteined but the touch-stone will fynde it out so though our Church hath euer byn since Christes time in the vvorld yet being mixed and couered vvith innoua●ons and errours vve cannot tell in vvhat part it vvas And I dare say that it is novv more extended then theirs ● for vve haue all England all Scotland all Germany al Denmarke a great part of France al Poland some part of Italie These are your vvordes if the Relators haue byn exact in setting them dovvne as they saie they haue byn And then is there ●o maruaile though you impugne so much the doctrine of scrupulous reseruation of true sense in ambiguous speeches vvhereas so manifestlie you ouer-lash in all those periods vvhich heere you haue layed before vs. 21. But to the matter it self about the Antiquity Continuance Succession Visibility and Assurance of the Church vvhereas you graunt that the Roman Church vvas the true mother-Church from the beginning and had two and thirty virginall martyrs for so you call them for her Popes one after the other vvithout interposition of anie one Bishop that vvas not martyr for more then the space of three hundred yeares you graunt vs so much in this assertion if it be vvel considered as it vvill be hard for you to take it from vs againe aftervvard in your sequent negation vvhich I shal shevv you brieflie by tvvo conuincing Arguments the one Theologicall the other Morall 22. The first is that if the Church of Rome vvas the true mother-Church of Christ and Christian religion for so great a space as you assigne then no doubt vvere all the predictions and promises of Prophets for the greatnes eminency honour certeyntie florishing perpetuitie of the said Christian Church fulfilled in her Christes peculier promises in like manner that he would be vvith her to the end of the vvorld that the holy ghost should lead her into all truth that hell-gates vvhich properlie signify errours and heresies should neuer preuaile against her that she should be the piller and foundation of truth all men bound to obey and beleeue her vvas ●eant also performed in this Roman-Church for three hundred yeares and more and promised ●● be performed to the end of the vvorld vvherof ●●sueth that either God is not able to performe what he promiseth for of his vvill there can be no doubt seing he hath promised or else it cannot vvithout impiety be conceaued and much ●●se beleeued that this roman-mother-Roman-mother-Church so ●●anted in the beginning by Christ and his Apo●●es bloud and so vvatered for three hundred yeares togeather by the bloud of all her Bishops ●● spread ouer the vvorld as S. Paul of his ovvne time testifyeth that her faith religion vvas and aftervvard all Ecclesiasticall histories vvithin the time prescribed after doe declare that all other Churches commonly at least-vvise of the vvest-world vvere her daughters by foundation our ●reat-Britany among the rest it is impossible I say to imagine vvith piety hovv this Queene of the vvorld hovv this florishing Church hovv this golden vvedge to vse your ovvne similitude should so be dissolued mingled vvith brasse tinne copper other such contemptible mettalls vvhich you cal Errours innouations as that her Religion should become rotten according to your phrase her self in steed of being the true kingdome inheritāce spouse of Christ become his enemy his aduersary an aduovvtresse and the verie povver of Sathan himself against him as you M. Attorney doe make her 23 Hovv I praie you can this be thought by vvhat reason or probability maie it be imagined vvhen hovv by vvhat meanes might this metamorphosis be made The very next age after the forsaid Martyr-Popesliued S. Augustine vvho reciting the said Popes and their Successors vnto his daie● called them all holy vvithout distinction and by their lineal succession in the said Church of Rome did persuade himself to haue demonstrated the truth of all Catholicke Religion as vvell in Africa vvhere he vvas as throughout the vvhole vvorld against all heretickes 24. And after him againe liued in the same Sea as Bishops thereof S. Leo and S. Gregory both of them surnamed Great in respect of their great sanctitie great learning and famous acts and vvith them and after them concurred and suceeeded in other Christian Churches of the vvorld as Fathers and Doctors S. Maximus S. Prosper Vincentius Lyrinensis S. Gregory of Tovvers S. Fulgentius S.

and thereupon he reiected the one and fauoured the other as more sincere people and more to bee trusted by him that were so trustie and faithfull to their God and his religion yf this I saie were a good censure and iudgment I doe not see how this other of M. Attorney can stand vpon anie ground of reason or Christian charitie that qualifieth so greiuously or rather calumniateth so egregiously the religious standing of Catholicke people in the moderate defence and excuse of their said consciences 22. But heere perhaps hee may demaund or some body for him what great reasons wee haue for this obstacle of our iudgment for not conforming it to his and others in this behalfe Wherunto though sufficientlie hath been alleadged before in the Answere to his Preface yet now may some two or three points or considerations bee further added in confirmation therof among almost infinite that might bee produced And the first may bee that which hitherto wee haue treated in this book with M. Attorney concerning the continuance of that religion for which wee stand throughout the whole race and course of our Christian English-Princes State and Realme from the beginning of our first conuersion vnto our time All which Kings and Queens Counsellors Nobilitie Archbishops Bishops Doctors Vniuersities Lawyers and Sages of all sortes were for so manie ages by one and the self-same religion profession and beleife directed and saued if anie were saued that is to say by the selfsame means doctrine and Sacraments of our auncient Catholicke English Church continuing vntill K. Henry 8. tyme which Church professed the very same faith and beliefe in like maner as in another special booke hath been declared wherby all other Christian nations had been directed and saued for those other ages which went before our English conuersion after Christs assension 23. New then this being so I would aske anie reasonable indifferent English-man whether wee haue iust cause to stand in and for this religion or not and whether if himself were now readie to die for that is the time when men doe iudge with lesse passion and had laid before his eyes the euerlasting ioyes of heauen on the one side and the eternall paines of hell on the other to bee lost or gayned by his election whether I saie hee would aduenture rather to goe in companie and ioyne himself with this large and venerable bodie of old English Catholickes among whome there are recorded by histories to haue been so manie admirable men both for learning wisdome and sanctitye of life or leauing these to take parte and receiue his portion with such later people of the same nation as haue deuided themselues from the other And when M. Attorney in good probabilitie of reason shall substantiallie answere mee this demaund it may doubtlesse bee a great motiue vnto mee and others to draw vs to the current of this present time but in the meane space wee must stand fast least wee fall into the torrent of brimstone if wee goe against our consciences by which wee must bee iudged and euery man damned or saued thereby as out of the Apostles testimonie before hath been declared 24. And thus much for standing in our old religion Now for passing to a new there is another obstacle also that greatlie withholdeth vs and this is that when wee shall haue left this old religion so begun so established so confirmed so promised by God to endure to the worlds end so generallie receiued so vniuersalli-continued as hath been declared wee cannot tell to what othe● sorte sect or parte of religion to passe with anie probable securitie or certeynty at all why wee should rather adhere to one sect then to another For when once wee lea●● the said Catholicke religion so groūded as you haue seen there is no one substantiall reason à parte rei that can bee assigned by anie man liuing neuer so learned why hee should more or rather follow one parte profession sect or new opinion then another As for example if to a man that vpon anie offence disgust scandall error anger interest leuity or the like for these are the ordinary motiues of changes breaketh from the auncient Catholicke Romain religion there should represent themselues vnto him fiue or six of the principall newest sects and sortes that professe different religions in our time all vnder the name of the Ghospell as namelie of Lutheranes either ridged or soft of Anabaptists Trinitarians new Arrians Zwinglians Cal●●nists of both sortes to witt Puritans and other all which haue their different positions professions articles faiths Churches conuenticles in these our daies and if he should demaund of fiue or six distinct Doctors of these new-ghospellers what substantiall reason or infallible groūd they can alleadge wherewith to persuade him that he ought to take their particular partes or bee of their seueral sects the one aboue the other or why themselues and ech one of them is rather of the one sect then of the other seeing all professe ghospell and scriptures In this case I say they can yeeld him no other reason but this that ech man assureth himself that hee and his parte doe alleadge and vnderstand the scriptures better then the rest which depending onlie as you see vpon the priuate iudgment and persuasion of ech one in particular for other proofes hee cā bring none except the stand vpon assurance of his particular spirit which euerie one of the other sects will doe in like manner it bringeth no assurance at all being onlie founded vpon ech mans opinion choice and election which properlie is heresie for that hereticks as auncient Fathers doe define are nothing els but choosers who leauing the vniuersall rule of faith deliuered vnto them by tradition of the common Church do chuse vnto themselues seuerall paths and opinions to follow 25. Wheras then no ground at all can bee yeelded by anie reason witt or learning of man why wee should bee rather of one new profession then another after wee haue left the old receiued throughout Christendome and that in the old wee stand not ech-man vpon his particular iudgment to beleiue this or that but vpon the generall testimonie tradition voice vse and authoritie of the vniuersall Christian Church called Catholicke as S. Augustine and others say not onlie by her freinds and followers but also by her enemies this being so I saie wee haue great cause to looke before wee leape as the prouerb is and to consider well where wee shall land or how we shall come to shore before wee leaue the shipp wherin wee are or doe aduenture into M. Attorneys new Current or anie other that hath no staie but maie carry vs further with the streame then wee can staie our selues afterward when wee would And thus much of this consideration 26. A third is which also shall bee the last in this place that terrifieth vs no lesse then anie of the former two and this is

the name and dreadfull voice of heresie sect or schisme so common now in these our daies so ordinarie in everie mans mouth as ech one of different opiniōs esteemeth the other for Hereticke Sectarie or Schismatike which notwithstanding if wee consider the course and sacred sense of holie scripture especiallie for the new testament as also the iudgment feeling and meaning of all auncient Fathers and of the whole primitiue Christian Church in their daies wee shall find to bee the most greiuous accusation most odious daungerous and damnable imputation to be accoumpted an hereticke or sectary that can possibly be imagined or laid vpon any Christian in this life yea that all other crimes laid togeather which by mans malice or diabolicall induction can bee committed are not equall to this onlie crime of heresie for so doe all learned Catholicke Deuines hold and determine in their generall positions of this matter as may bee seen in one for all in the Summe of S. Thomas where setting downe first that infidelitie against God which is the highest crime of all other hath three kinds or members vnder it Paganisme Iudaisme and Heresie the said Doctor making the question which of these three is the greatest synne determineth vpon verie substantiall grounds and reasons that albeit in some respects to wit in regard of the greater multitude of Christian articles which Pagans and Iewes doe denie more them hereticks doe yet in malice which maketh the principall point of sinne and draweth on more grieuous damnation heresie is a greater infidelitie then is either Paganisme or Iudaisme and consequenly more damnable which I leaue heere to proue and confirme out of the conformitie of holie scriptures as that of S. Paul to Titus that an hereticall man is subuerted damned by his owne iudgment and other such places It is sufficient for setling our dread and feare in this behalfe that the whole consent of Schoole-Doctors vpon this alleadged article of S. Thomas doe agree that it is more daungerous and damnable to fall into heresie then to bee a Iew or Pagan 27. With which seueritie of Censure doe concurre also fullie the auncient Fathers of the Primitiue Christian Church whose sentences were o●erlonge to cite in this place but you may see a shorte view thereof gathered togeather vpon another occasion in a certaine booke lately set forth where the consenting woords of the most principall said auncient Doctors are laid togeather affirming that who soeuer by schisme or heresie is cut of frō the faith cōmmuniō of the generall knowne Catholicke Church is most certainly to bee damned and cannot bee saued though hee should otherwise liue neuer so well praie neuer so much giue neuer so great almes haue neuer so god intētiō other wise yea though hee should offer his life shed his bloud suffer neuer so manie torments for Christ his name loue and religion 28. This then being so and adioyning yet further to this consideration another generall position of our said learned Deuines which is as the foresaid renowned Doctor S. Thomas setteth it downe that whosoeuer in anie one least article of Catholicke religiō doth run into heresie or beleiueth not the said article as hee should doe but obstinately rather impugneth the same he leeseth his whole faith not onlie in that point which hee discrediteth but in all other points also which hee beleiued before and persuadeth himself to beleiue still this I saie being so which the said learned Schole-Doctor proueth by euident arguments demonstratiue groundes to bee true M. Attorney may imagine what stay and repugnance wee may haue out of the feare of our consciences in this behalfe easilie to make new choice or changes of religion in these daies For as if a learned experiēced Phisition should come shew out of aunciēt reading that there were a Kind of most deadly dreadfull sorte of plague or Epidemia to bee feared and fled aboue all the rest when it cometh for that no hope of life or escape can be giuen from it that withall hee should affirme that now the said plague begā to be cōmon in such and such places yea so cōmon as many men did contemne it and make it but a iest though all perished with it that fel into it as in this case I saie wise-mē would looke about them hearing that so pestilent perilous infectiō were on foote in their daies so much more in this other infection of the soule leading most certainly to euerlasting death dānation as al the most learned spirituall Phisitions of Christs holy Church haue euer taught vs haue we reason to bee carefull timerous vigilant what we doe what change we make whither we goe frō whence we departe the saying of S Athanasius being so dreadfull in his Creed that whosoeuer doth not beleiue and hold the Catholicke faith wholie and entirely absque dubio in aeternum peribit shal without all doubt perish euerlastinglie 29. And S. Augustine after him hauing set downe vnto his freind Quod-vult-Deus a catalogue of the most cheife and knowne heresies and erroneous opinions noted against hereticks from the Apostles time to his daies wherof diuers are expressly raised againe by new gospellers in these our times as there you may see in that hee writeth of Aerius Aetius Iouinian Vigilantius and others hee commeth lastly to affirme and conclude in the end of that booke that as it is damnable to hold anie one of those heresies there by him set downe so was it not sufficient to saluation to bee free only from those for that there might bee other opinions discrepant also from the Catholicke beleife lurking in corners which hee had not heard of and moreouer there might other new spring vp from time to time Q●●rum aliquā saith hee quisquis tenuerit Christianus Catholicus esse non potest Of which whosoeuer shall hold any one and let vs marke anie one he cannot be a Christian Catholicke and consequentlie cannot be saued in S. Augustines iudgment 30. And for so much as now in all this controuersie between M. Attorney and vs wee haue shewed his opinions and assertions to bee so different from those of all our English Christian Commonwealth from the beginning vnto our times which wee on the other side haue shewed to be trulie Catholicke and common to the whole Christian world besides all men of indifferencie wil cōsider what reasō we haue in making such stay as we doe from passing lightlie to his Current how little reason he hath or had to charge vs so deeplie and iniuriouslie that our stay was vpon so euill and odious causes as before he charged vs. And thus much of this second expostulation THE THIRD EXPOSTVLATION In the name of all moderate and peace-louing subiects whatsoeuer §. III. 31. My third complaint or expostulation with M. Attorney is yet more generall as concerning not onlie all sortes of Catholickes whatsoeuer but other

proued For that he that giueth a power to an other is presupposed to haue it first in himself for that no man can giue that which himself hath not so as if Q. Elizabeth did giue any spirituall Iurisdiction to her Bishops to teach preach make Ministers absolute loose sinnes and the like who otherwise could haue no such authoritie at all she might no doubt haue exercised the same in her owne person as in all temporall Iurisdiction we see that whatsoeuer power the King giueth to any Gouernour Iudge or Magistrate to exercise in his name he may exercise the same also him self if he wil. And the same holdeth in the Pope for any spirituall Iurisdiction or function that he committeth to any Bishop Priest or Clerk whatsoeuer 42. A third reason is taken ab inconueniente to wit from this inconuenience that if a Queene could be spirituall head of the Church and should marry without making hir husband King she should be his spirituall head also to loose and bind his sinnes and to exercise Ecclesiasticall Censures of Iurisdiction Suspension or Excommunication against him at her pleasure and he for his part should be bound in conscience vnder payne of sinne to heare and follow her doctrine if at any time she list to preach vnto him or to prescribe what he must beleeue or not beleeue in matters of faith which besides that it should be contrary to that we haue alleadged before out of S. Paul and Christ his Institution for the subiection of women in these causes it would be very absurd and ridiculous also as you see and vnworthie of the excellent gouerment of Christ his Church instituted and framed by the highest wisdome of almighty God 43. Wherfore lastly to shutt vp this matter after all these proofes alleadged we shall adioyne one only more which howsoeuer it be esteemed of vs yet ought it to be of singular great moment with M. Attorney and this is the vniuersall agreement of all Protestants both of Caluin Luthers sect commonly throughout the world except only in England And as for Caluinists the matter is cleere if we respect France Germany Holland Zeland Scotland and other places who all agree in this point following therin their first Author Iohn Caluin who not only in the place by me alleadged vpō Amos the prophet but in diuers other places also of his workes doth earnestly impugne not only this Ecclesiasticall power of a woman but of any temporall Magistrate whatsoeuer affirming further in a certayne epistle of his to his freind Myconius that those who defend the same are prophane spirits and mad-men and that the Lord with the breath of his mouth shall destroy them and that both he and his would encounter and fight against them with a valiant and inuincible Zeale c. Of the same opinion and spirit was Theodore Beza the cheife scholer and successour of Caluin in his chayre of Geneua as appeareth by his writings and another chiefe scoller and companion of them both named Viretus in his dialogue intituled Of white Diuells calling them false Christians and dissembled diuells that defend this false position of Princes Ecclesiasticall Supremacy though they couer them selues saith he with the cloake of the Ghospell and then setteth he downe foure or fiue arguments to proue the position to be false which I pretermitt to recite in this place for breuities sake remitting the Reader to the booke it self for that it is exstant in English And I doe passe ouer the writings of many other principall men of that profession both in England and abroad who in this point are no lesse opposite and earnest against M. Attorney that we and are knowne in England by the name of Puritanes or precise Caluinists who being the farre greater parte if we respect all Countreyes about vs must needs in this point be confessed to haue more reason the thing being affirmed so earnestly as you haue heard by Caluin himself than the other of that sect who for pleasing of tēporall princes are accused by them to hold the contrary For that if Iohn Caluin be to be followed in all the rest as they confesse why not also in this And if the holy-ghost fayled him in this so important a point as comprehendeth the whole gouerment of their Church and the lawfull or vnlawfull vocation and function of their whole Ministerie what certaintie can they haue in any other thinge or point of his doctrine 44. But now not only those of the Caluinian sect but others also of the Lutheranes doe laugh at our English Protestants for holding this position of M. Attorney about Queene Elizabeths Spirituall and Ecclesiasticall Supremacie wherin not to weary the Reader which enumeration of many witnesses I shall alleadg only one for all but yet such a one as may well stand for all For that he is the most eminent and principall man of them all to vvitt Mart●nus Keronitius an ancient publike Reader of diuinity among the Lutherane Sect in Saxony that hath written many volumes for defence of the said sect in our dayes 45. This man then being consulted and demaunded his opinion by the Prince Elector of Brandeburg what was to be done in certaine points concerning those of the Caluinian sect he answereth him in a large epistle extant in print allowing first and greatly praysing the Princes iudgment Quod consultum non esse iudicat vt cum Caluinistis Generalis Synodus habeatur That his Highnes thought it not expedient to hold any generall Synode with the Caluinists as they desired for composing of Controuersyes betweene Lutherans and them 46. Secondly he addeth his owne iudgment vnto that of the Prince Elector about punishing the said Caluinists within his State affirming Non expedire vt punitionis officium contrae Caluinistas intereà temporis penitus quiescat It was not expedient that the office of punishing Caluinists should cease in the meane space vntill the said generall Synode were held as they demaunded 47. Thirdly and lastly hauing resolued these two points he passeth ouer to giue his iudgment in like manner to the said Elector about the Religion held in England and of Q. Elizabeth her self and her title of supremacy saying first that no good thing in Religion was further to be expected from her that she had vsed hardly the Protestants of Germany that she saw and felt no● a third sect risen vp in her Realme of Puritanes that hated both her and the other Caluinians that followed her who were enimies in like manner to Lutherans So he And then passing yet further he scoffeth merily that she being a woman had taken vpon her to make Ecclesiasticall lawes Et quòd faemineo à saeculis inaudito fastu se Papissam caput Ecclesia fecit That with a womanly pride neuer heard of in former ages she had made herself a She-pope head of the Church Thus Kemnitius And marke that he saith à saeculu inaudito