Tradition may be knowne to be such by the light which it hath in it selfe which is an excellent Proposition to make sport withall were this an Argument to be handled merrily 3. For the third Opinion and way of proving either some thinke that there is no sufficient warrant for this unlesse they fetch it from the Testimony of the Holy Ghost and so looke in vaine after speciall Revelations and make themselves by this very Conceit obnoxious and easie to be led by all the whisperings of a seducing private spirit or els you would faine have them think so For your side both upon this and other Occasions do often challenge That we resolve all our Faith into the Dictates of a * A Iesuite under the name of T S. set out a Booke An. 1630. which he called The Triall of the Protestant private Spirit private Spirit from which we shall ever prove our selves as free if not freer than you To the Question in hand then Suppose it agreed upon that there must be a d Ut Testimonia Scripturae certam inaubitatam fidem praestent necessarium videtur ostendere quod ipsae Divinae Scripturae sint Dei Spiritu inspiratae Orig. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Divine Faith cui subesse non potest falsum under which can rest no possible errour That the Bookes of Scripture are the written Word of God If they which goe to the testimony of the Holy Ghost for proofe of this doe meane by Faith Objectum Fidei the Object of Faith that is to bee believed then no question they are out of the ordinary way For God never sent us by any word or warrant of his to looke for any such speciall and private Testimony to prove which that Booke is that we must believe But if by Faith they meane the Habit or Act of Divine infused Faith by which vertue they doe believe the Credible Object and thing to bee believed then their speech is true and confessed by all Divines of all sorts For Faith is the gift * 1. Cor. 12. 3. 4. Datur nobu a Deo c. S. Aug. in Psal. 87. of God of God alone and an infused †Quia homo assentiendo eis quae sunt fidâ—…i clevatur supra Naturam suam oportel quòd hoc inâ—…t ei ex supernaturali pâ—…incipio intâ—…riùs movente quod est Dens Tho. 2 2 ae q. 6. A. 1. c. And your owne Divines agree in this That Fides acquisita is not sufficient for any Article but there must be Fides infusa before there can be Divine Certainty Fides acquisita innititur conjecturis humanis Ad quem modum Saraceni suis Praeceptoribus Iudaei suis Rabinis Gentâ—…s suis Philosophs omnes suis Maj ribus inharent non sic Christians sed per interius lumen infusum à Spiritu Sancto quo firmissimè certissimè moventur ad credenâ—…m c. Canus L. 2. Locor c. 8. §. I am si hac Habit in respect whereof the Soule is meerely recipient And therefore the sole Infuser the Holy Ghost must not beâ—… excluded from that worke which none can doe but Hee For the Holy Ghost as * Symb. Nicen. The Holy Ghost spake by the Prophets c. Et 1. S. Pet. 2. 21. Quis modus est quo doces animas ea quae futura sunt Docuistâ—… enim Prophetas tuos S. Aug. L. 11. Confess c. 19. Hee first dictated the Scripture to the Apostles b Nec enim Ecclesiae Testimonium aut Judicium praedicamus Dei Spiritum vel ab Ecclâ—…sia doceâ—…te vol à nobis audientibus excludimus sed utrobique disertè includimus c. Stapl. trip contr Whitak c. 3. So did he not leave the Church in generall nor the true members of it in particular without Grace to believe what himself had revealed and made Credible So that Faith as it is taken for the vertue of Faith whether it be of this or any other Article c Fides quae caepit ab Ecclesia Testimonio quatenus proponit inducit ad Fidem deâ—…nit in Deo intùs revelante intùs docente quod forts Ecclesia pradicavit Stapl. Relect. Cont. 4. q. 3. a. 2. When grave and learned men doe sometimes hold that of this Principle there is no proofe but by the Testimony of the Spirit c. I thinke it is not their meaning to exclude all outward Proofes c but rather this That all other meanes are uneffectuall of themselves to worke Faith without the speciall Grace of God Hook c. Lib. 3. §. 8. though it receive a kinde of preparation or Occasion of Beginning from the Testimony of the Church as it proposeth and induceth to the Faith yet it ends in God revealing within and teaching within that which the Church preached without For till the Spirit of God move the Heart of man he cannot believe be the Object never so Credible The speech is true then but quite d De habitu Fidei quoad fieri ejus generationem quùm à Deo immediatè solo Dono gratuito infusus est Nihil ad Quastionem nisi quoad hoc quod per Scriptura inspectionem c. Henr. à Gand. Sam. a. 10. q. 1. lit D. out of the State of this Question which inquires onely after a sufficient meanes to make this Object Credible and fit to be believed against all impeachment of folly and temerity in Beliefe whether men do actually believe it or not For which no man may expect inward private Revelation without the externall means of the Church unlesse perhaps the e Stapl. Relect. Cont. 4. Q. 3. A. 2. Doth not onely affirme it but proves it too à paritate rationis in case of necessity where there is no Contempt of the externall meanes case of Neceâ—…ity be excepted when a man lives in such a time place as excludes him from all ordinary means in which I dare not offer to shut up God from the foules of men nor to tie him to those ordinary waies and means to which yet in great wisdome and providence He hath tied and bound all mankind Private Revelation then hath nothing ordinarily to doe to make the Object Credible in this That Scripture is the Word of God or in any other Article For the Question is of such outward and evident meanes as other men may take notice of as well as our selves By which if there arise any Doubting or Infirmity in the Faith others may strengthen us or we affoord meanes to support them Whereas the a Quid cum singulis agitur Deus scit qui agit ipsi cum quibus agitur sciunt Quid autem agatur cum genere Humano per Historiam commendari volâ—…it per Prophetiam S. Aug. de vera Relig. c. 25. Testimony of the Spirit and all private Revelation is within nor felt nor seen of any but him that hath it So that hence can be drawn no proofe to
Definition of a Generall Councell Consid. 6. be infallible then the infallibility of it is either in the Conclusion and in the Meanes that prove it or in the Conclusion not the Meanes or in the Meanes not the Conclusion But it is infallible in none of these Not in the first The Conclusion and the Meanes For there are diverse Deliberations in Generall Councels where the Conclusion is Catholike but the Meanes by which they prove it not infallible Not in the second The Conclusion and not the Meanes For the Conclusion must follow the nature of the Premisses or Principles out of which it is deduced therefore if those which the Councell uses be sometimes uncertaine as is proved before the Conclusion cannot be infallible Not in the third The Meanes and not the Conclusion For that cannot but be true and necessary if the Meanes be so And this I am sure you will never grant because if you should you must deny the Infallibility which you seeke to establish To this for I confesse the Argument is old but can never be worne out nor shifted off your great Master a Relect. Cont. 4. q. 2. ad Argâ—… 1â—… Stapleton who is miserably hamper'd in it and indeed so are you all answers That the Infallibility of a Councell is in the second Course that is b And herein I must needs Commend your Wildome For you have had many Popes so ignorant 〈◊〉 ignorant as that they have beene â—…o way able to sift and Examine the Meanes And therefore you doe most advisedly make them infallible in the Conclusion without the Meanes §. 39. Nu. 8. It is infallible in the Conclusion though it be uncertaine and fallible in the Meanes and Proofe of it How comes this to passe It is a thing altogether unknowne in Nature and Art too That fallible Principles can either father or mother beget or bring forth an infallible Conclusion Well that is granted in Nature and in all Argumentation that causes Knowledge But we shall have Reasons for it c Ibid. Not. 4. First because the Church is discursive and uses the weights and moments of Reason in the Meanes but is Propheticall and depends upon immediate Revelation from the Spirit of God in delivering the Conclusion It is but the making of this appeare and all Controversie is at an end Well I will not discourse here To what end there is any use of Meanes if the Conclusion be Propheticall which yet is justly urged for no good cause can be assigned of it If it be Propheticall in the Conclusion I speake still of the present Church for that which included the Apostles which had the Spirit of Prophecie and immediate Revelation was ever Propheticke in the Definition but then that was Infallible in the Meanes too Then since it delivers the Conclusion not according to Nature and Art that is out of Principles which can beare it there must be some supernaturall Authority which must deliver this Truth That say I must be the Scripture For if you flie to immediate Revelation now the Enthusiasme must be yours But the Scriptures which are brought in the very Exposition of all the Primitive Church neither say it nor enforce it Therefore Scripture warrants not your Prophesie in the Conclusion And I know no other thing that can warrant it If you think the Tradition of the Church can make the world beholding to you Produce any Father of the Church that sayes This is an Vniversall Tradition of the Church That her Definitions in a Generall Councell are Propheticall and by immediate Revelation Produce any one Father that sayes it of his own Authority That he thinks so Nay make it appeare that ever any Prophet in that which he delivered from God as Infallible Truth was ever discursive at all in the Meanes Nay make it but probable in the ordinary course of Prophecie and I hope you go no higher nor will I offer at God's absolute Power That that which is discursive in the Meanes can be Prophetick in the Conclusion and you shall be my great Apollo for ever In the meane time I have learned this from a Prophetae audiebant à Deo interiùs inspirante Tho. 2. 24. q. 5. A. 1. ad 3. yours That all Prophecie is by Vision Inspiration c. And that no Vision admits Discourse That all Prophecie is an Illumination not alwayes present but when the Word of the b The word of the Lord came unto me is common in the Prophets Lord came to them and that was not by Discourse And yet you c Stapl. Relect. Cont. 4. q. 2. p. 473. say againe That this Prophetick Infallibility of the Church is not gotten without study and industry You should do well to tell us too why God would put his Church to study for the Spirit of Prophecie which never any Particular Prophet was put unto d Propheticam Revelationem nullo pacto haberi posse vel ope Naturae vel studio Contra Avicennam Algazalem Averrocm c. Fran. Picus 2. Praenot c. 4. And whosoever shall study for it shall do it in vaine since Prophecie is a e 1. Cor. 12. 10. Gift and can never bee an acquired Habit. And there is somewhat in it that Bellarmine in all his Dispute for the Authority of Generall Councels dares not come at this Rocke f L. 2. de Conc. c. 12. He preferres the Conclusion and the Canon before the Acts and the Deliberations of Councels and so do we but I do not remember that ever he speaks out That the Conclusion is delivered by Prophecie or Revelation Sure he sounded the shore and found danger here He did sound it For a little before he speaks plainly would his bad Cause let him be constant * Concilia noâ—… habent neque scribunt immediatas Revelationes c sed ex Verbo Dei per ratiocinationeÌ„ dcducunt Conclusiones Bellar. l. 2 de Concil A. 12. §. At Concilia non Councels do deduce their Conclusions What from Inspiration No But out of the Word of God and that per ratiocinationem by Argumentation Neither have they nor do they write any immediate Revelations The second Reason why a Stap. Jb. p. 374 Stapleton will have it Propheticke in the Conclusion is Because that which is determined by the Church is matter of Faith not of Knowledge And that therefore the Church proposing it to be believed though it use Meanes yet it stands not upon Art or Meanes or Argument but the Revelation of the Holy Ghost Els when we embrace the Conclusion proposed it should not be an Assent of Faith but an Habit of Knowledge This for the first part That the Church uses the Meanes but followes them not is all one in substance with the former Reason And for the later part That then our admitting the Decree of a Councell would be no Assent of Faith but an Habit of Knowledge what great inconvenience is there if it be granted For
I think it is undoubted Truth That one and the same Conclusion may be Faith to the Believer that cannot prove and Knowledge to the Learned that can And b Cont. Fund c. 4. S. Augustine I am sure in regard of one and the same thing even this the very Wisdome of the Church in her Doctrine ascribes Vnderstanding to one sort of men and Beliefe to another weaker sort And c Tho. p. 1. q. 2. A. 2. ad 1. Nihil prohibet illud quod secundùm se demonstrabile est scibile ab aliquo acciti ut Credibile qui Demonstrationem non capit Thomas goes with him Now for further satisfaction if not of you yet of others this may well be thought on Man lost by sin the Integrity of his Nature and cannot have Light enough to see the way to Heaven but by Grace This Grace was first merited after given by Christ this Grace is first kindled in Faith by which if we agree not to some Supernaturall Principles which no Reason can demonstrate simply we can never see our way But this Light when it hath made Reason submit it self cleares the Eye of Reason it never puts it out In which sense it may be is that of a L. 3. Rationabilu ubique diffusa Optatut That the very Catholike Church it selfe is reasonable as well as diffused every where By which b Ut ipsâ fide valentiores facti quod credimus intelligere mereannur non jam hominibus sed Deo intrinsecùs mentem nostram firmante illuminante S. Aug. cont Epist Fundamenti c. 14. Reason inlightened which is stronger then Reason the Church in all Ages hath beene able either to convert or convince or at least c Omnia genera Ingeniorum subdita Scripturae S. Aug. L. 22. cont Faust. cap. 96. stop the mouthes of Philosophers and the great men of Reason in the very Point of Faith where it is at highest To the present occasion then The first immediate Fundamentall Points of Faith without which there is no salvation as they cannot be proved by Reason so neither need they be determined by any Councell nor ever were they attempted they are so plaine set downe in the Scripture If about the sense and true meaning of these or necessary deduction out of these Prime Articles of Faith Generall Councels determine any thing as they have done in Nice and the rest there is no inconvenience that one and the same Canon of the Councell should be believed as it reflects upon the Articles and Grounds indemonstrable and d Almain 3. D. 24. q. 1. Tho. 2. 2a q. 1. A. 5. C. Id quod est scitum ab uno homine etiam in statu via est ab alio Creditum qui hoc Demonstrare non novit yet knowne to the Learned by the Meanes and Proofe by which that Deduction is vouched and made good And againe the Conclusion of a Councell suppose that in Nice about the Consubstantiality of Christ with the Father in it selfe considered is indemonstrable by Reason There I believe and assent in Faith But the same Conclusion e Concilium Nicanum deduxit Conclusionem ex Scripturis Bellar 2. de Concil c. 12. §. Sic etià m if you give me the Ground of Scripture and the Creed and somewhat must be supposed in all whether Faith or Knowledge is demonstrable by naturall Reason against any Arrian in the world And if it be demonstrable I may know it and have an Habit of it And what inconvenience in this For the weaker sort of Christians which cannot deduce when they have the Principle granted they are to rest upon the Definition only and their Assent is meere Faith yea and the Learned too where there is not a Demonstration evident to them assent by Faith onely and not by knowledge And what inconvenience in this Nay the necessity of Nature is such that these Principles once given the understanding of man cannot rest but it must be thus And the †S. Pet. 3. 15. Apostle would never have required a man to be alle to give a Reason and an account of the hope that is in him if he might not be able to know his account or have lawfull interest to give it when he knew it without prejudicing his Faith by his knowledge And suppose exact knowledge and meere Beliefe cannot stand together in the same Person in regard of the same thing by the same meanes yet that doth not make void this Truth For where is that exact knowledge or in whom that must not meerely in points of Faith believe the Article or Ground upon which they rest But when that is once believed it can demonstrate many things from it And Definitions of Councels are not Principia Fidei Principles of Faith but Deductions from them And now because you aske Wherein are we nearer Consid. 7. to unity by a Councell if a Councell may erre Besides the Answer given I promised to consider which Opinion was most agreeable with the Church which most able to preserve or reduce Christian Peace The Romane That a Councell cannot erre Or the Protestants That it can And this I propose not as a Rule but leave the Christian world to consider of it as I doe First then I Consider Whether in those Places of Scripture before mentioned or any other there bâ—…e promised to the present Church an absolute Infallibility Or whether such an Infallibility will not serve the turne as * Relect. Cont. 4. q. 2. Notab 3 Exacta Omnimodâ Infallibilitate non indiget sed satis est semel acceptis c. Stapleton after much wrigling is forced to acknowledge One not every way exact because it is enough if the Church doe diligently insist upon that which was once received and there is not need of so great certainty to open and explicate that which lyes hid in the seed of Faith sowne and deduce from it as to seeke out and teach that which was altogether unknowne And if this be so then sure the Church of the Apostles required guidance by a greater degree of Infallibility then the present Church which yet if it follow the Scripture is Infallible enough though it hath not the same degree of Certainty which the Apostles had and the Scripture hath Nor can I tell what to make of Bellarmine that in a whole Chapter disputes five Prerogatives in Certainty of Truth a L. 2 de Con. c. 12. §. ult Cùm utraque sint infallibilis veritatis aquè certa dici possunt that the Scripture hath above a Councell and at last Concludes That They may be said to be equally certain in Infallible Truth The next thing I Consider is Suppose this not Exact but congruous Infallibility in the Church Is it not residing according to Power and Right of Authority in the whole Church and in a Generall Councell only by Power deputed b Nam si Ecclesiae Vniversitati non
Emmanuel Sa in his Aphorismes Verbo Tyrannus yet he is so moderate that he would not have this done till he be Sentenc'd but then Quisquis potest fieri Executor Mariana is farre worse For he sayes it is lawfull to kill him postquam à paucis Seditiosts sed doctis caeperit Tyrannus appellari L. 1. de Rege Reg. Iustitutione c. 6. Yea but Mariana was disclaimed for this by the Iesuites Yea but for all that there was an Apology printed in Italy An. 1610. permissu Superiorum And there 't is said They were all Enemies of the Holy name of Iâ—…sus 〈◊〉 condemned Mariana for any such Doctrine As for Testatus no Sentence hath touched upon him at all for it And whose Deposition and Vnthron ing nay killing of Princes the like if they were not yours For I dare say and am able to proove there 's none of these but are rather contrary then conformable to Scripture Neither is A. C. or any Iesuite able to shew any * Corpus Christi veraciter esse in Eucharistià ex Evangelio habemus Conversionem vero Panis in Corpus Christi Evangelium non explicavit sed expresse ab Ecclesià accepimus Cajetan in Thâ—…m 3. q. 75. Art 1. Scripture interpreted by Vnion or †De Transubstantiatione Panis in Corpus Christi rara est in antiquis Scriptoribus mentio Alph. a Castro L. 8. advers Haer. Uerbo Indulgentia Consent of Fathers of the Primitive Church to proove any one of these Nor any Definition of Ancient Councels but only a Conc. Lateran Can. 1. Lateran for Transubstantiation and that of b Conc. Constan. Sess. 13. Constance for the Eucharist in one kinde which two are moderne at least farre downward from the Primitive Church and have done more mischiefe to the Church by those their Determinations then will be cured I feare in many Generations So whatever A. C. thinks yet I had reason enough to leave the Iesuite to looke to his owne soule But A. C. having as it seemes little new matter is at the same againe and over and over it must goe That there is but one saving faith That this one Faith was A. C. p. 70. once the Romane And that I granted one might bee saved in the Romane Faith To all which I have aboundantly answered c §. 35. N. 1. §. 38. N 10. before Marry then hee inferres That hee sees not how we can have our soules saved without we entirely hold this faith being the Catholike faith which S. Athanasius saith unlesse a man hold entirely he cannot be saved Now here againe is more in the Conclusion then in the premises and so the Inference failes For say there was a time in which the Catholike and the Romane Faith were one and such a time there was when the Romane faith was Catholike and famous through the world Rom. 1. Yet it doth not follow since the d Concil Triden Bulla Pii 4 super formâ Iuramenti professionis Fidei ad finem Concil Trident. Councell Rom. 1. 8. of Trent hath added a new Creed that this Romane faith is now the Catholike For it hath added extranea things without the Foundation disputable if not false Conclusions to the faith So that now a man may Believe the whole and entire Catholike Faith even as S. Athanasius requires and yet justly refuse for drosse a great part of that which is now a And this is so much the more Remarkâ—…ble if it be true which Thomas hath S. 〈◊〉 non composuisse hanc â—…nifestationem Fideâ—… per mâ—…dum Symboli sed per modum Doctrinae c. Et deinde Authoritate summi Pontificis receptam esse ut quasi Regula fidei habeatur The. 2. 2ae q. 1. A. 10. ad 3. Symbolo Apostâ—…rum addita sunt duo alia scilicet Symbolum Nicaenum S. Athanasii admajorem Fidei Explanationem Biel. in 3. Sent. D. 25. q. unicâ A. 1. D. the Romane Faith And Athanasius himselfe as if he meant to arme the Catholike Faith against all corrupting additions hath in the beginning of his b S. Athanas. in Symb. Creed these words This is the Catholike Faith This and no other This and no Other then here followes And againe at the end of his Creed c And yet the Councell of Trent having added twelve new Articles sayes thus oâ—… them also Haec est vera Catholica Fideâ—… extra quam nemo salvus esse potest c. Bulla 〈◊〉 4. super forma Iuramenti professionis Fidei In sine Concil Triaent This is the Catholike Faith d Integram Fidâ—…i Veritatem ejus Doctrina breviter continet Tho. 2. 〈◊〉 q. 1. A. 10. ad 3. This and no more then is here delivered alwaies presupposing the Apostles Creed as Athanasius did and this is the largest of all Creeds So that if A. C. would wipe his eyes from the mist which rises about Tyber he might see how our soules may be saved believing the Catholike Faith and that entire without the Addition of Romane Leaven But if he cannot or I doubt will not see it 't is enough that by God's Grace wee see it And therefore once more I leave him and his to looke to their owne soules After this A. C. is busie in unfolding the meaning of this great Father of the Church S. Athanasius And A. C. p. 70. he tels us That he sayes in his Creed that without doubt every man shall perish that holds not the Catholike Faith entire that is saith A. C. in every point of it and inviolate that is in the right sense and for the true formall reason of divine Revelation sufficiently applied to our understanding by the Infallible Authority of the Catholike Church proposing to us by her Pastours this Revelation Well we shall not differ much from A. C. in expounding the meaning of S. Athanasius yet some few things I shall here observe And first I agree that he which hopes for salvation must believe the Catholike Faith whole and entire in every point Next I agree that he must likewise hold it inviolate if to believe it in the right sense be to hold it inviolate But by A. C s. leave the Believing of the Creed in the right sense is comprehended in the first branch The keeping of it whole and entire For no man can properly be said to believe the Whole Creed that believes not the Whole Sense as well as the Letter of it and as entirely But thirdly for the word inviolate 't is indeed used by him that translated Athanasius But the Father 's owne words are That he that will be saved must keepe the Faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the sound and entire Faith And it cannot be a sound Faith unlesse the Sense be as whole and entire as the Letter of the Creed And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is compounded of the privative particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and
Foundation for all cannot be one and another to different Christians in regard of it selfe for then it could be no common Rule for any nor could the soules of men rest upon a shaking foundation No If it be a true Foundation it must be common to all and firme under all in which sense the Articles of Christian Faith are Fundamentall And f Quum exim una cadem sides sit neque is qui multum de ipsà dicere potest plusquam oportet dicit neque qui parùm ipsam imminuit Iren. L. 1. advers haeres c. 3. Ireneus layes this for a ground That the whole Church howsoever dispersed in place speakes this with one mouth He which among the Guides of the Church is best able to speake utters no more then this and lesse then this the most simple doth not utter Therefore the Creed of which he speaks is a common is a constant Foundation And an Explicite faith must be of this in them which have the use of Reason for both Guides and simple people All the Church utter this Now many things are defined by the Church w ch are but Deductions out of this which suppose them deduced right move far from the Foundation without which Deductions explicitly believed many millions of Christians go to Heaven and cannot therefore be Fundamentall in the faith True Deductions from the Article may require necessary beliefe in them which are able and do go along with them from the Principle to the Conclusion But I do not see either that the Learned do make them necessary to all or any reason why they should Therfore they cannot be FundameÌ„tall yet to some mens Salvation they are necessary Besides that which is Fundamentall in the Faith of Christ is a Rocke immoveable and can never be varied Never a Resolutio Occhami est quòd nâ—… tota Ecclesia nec Concilium Generale nec summus Pontifex potest facere Articulum quod non suit Articulus Sed in dubiis propositionibus potest Ecclesia determinare an sint Cathilicae c. Tamen sic determinando non facit quod sint Catholicae quum prius essent ante Ecclesiae Determinationem c. Almain in 3. D. 25. Q. 1. Therefore if it be Fundamentall after the Church hath defined it it was Fundamentall before the Definition els it is mooveable and then no Christian hath where to rest And if it be immooveable as b Regula Fidei una omnino est solailla immobilis irreformabilis Tertul. de Virg. vel cap. 1. In hac fide c. Nihil transmutare c. Athan. Epist. ad Iovin de side indeed it is no Decree of a Councell be it never so Generall can alter immooveable Verities no more than it can change immooveable Natures Therefore if the Church in a Councell define any thing the thing defined is not Fundamentall because the Church hath defined it nor can be made so by the Definition of the Church if it be not so in it selfe For if the Church had this power she might make a New Article of the Faith c Occham Almain in 3. Sent. D. 25. q. 1. which the Learned among your selves deny For the Articles of the Faith cannot increase in substance but onely in Explication d Thom. 2. 2. q. 1. Ar. 7. C. And for this I 'le be judg'd by Bellarmine f Fides Divina non ideo habet certitudinem quia toti Ecclesiae communis est sed quia nititur Authoritate Dei qui nec falli nec fallere potest quum sit ipsa Veritas L. 3. de Justif. c. 3. §. Quod verò Concilium Probatio Ecclesiae facit ut omnibus innotescat Objectum Fidei Divinae esse revelatum à Deo propter hoc certum indubitatum non autem tribuit firmitatem verbo Dei aliquid revelantis Ibid. §. At inqust who disputing against Amb. Catharinus about the certainty of Faith tels us That Divine Faith hath not its certainty because 't is Catholike .i. common to the whole Church but because it builds on the Authority of God who is Truth it self and can neither deceive nor be deceived And he addes That the Probation of the Church can make it known to all that the Object of Divine Faith is revealed from God and therefore certaine and not to be doubted but the Church can adde no certainty no firmenesse to the word of God revealing it Nor is this hard to be farther proved out of your owne Schoole For a Scotus in 1. Sent. D. 11. q. 1. Scotus professeth it in this very particular of the Greeke Church If there be saith he a true reall difference betweene the Greekes and the Latines about the Point of the Procession of the Holy Ghost then either they or we be verè Haeretici truly and indeed Hereticks And he speakes this of the old Greekes long before any Decision of the Church in this Controversie For his instance is in S. Basil and Greg. Nazianz. on the one side and S Ierome Augustine and Ambrose on the other And who dares call any of these Hereticks is his challenge I deny not but that Scotus adds there That howsoever this was before yet ex quo from the time that the Catholike Church declared it it is to be held as of the substance of Faith But this cannot stand with his former Principle if he intend by it That whatsoever the Church defines shall be ipso ficto and for that Determination's sake Fundamentall For if before the Determination supposing the Difference reall some of those Worthies were truly Hereticks as he confesses then somewhat made them so And that could not be the Decree of the Church which then was not Therefore it must be somwhat really false that made them so and fundamentally false if it made them Hereticks against the Foundation But Scotus was wiser than to intend this It may be he saw the streame too strong for him to swim against therfore he went on with the doctrine of the Time That the Churches Sentence is of the substance of Faith But meant not to betray the truth For he goes no further than Ecclesia declaravit since the Church hath declared it which is the word that is used by diverse b Bellarm. L. 2. de Conc. Auth. c. 12. Concilia cùm definiunt non faciunt aliquid esse infallibilis veritatis sed declarant Explicare Bonavent in 1. d. 11. A. 1. q. 1. ad sinem Explanare declarare Tho 1. q. 36. A. 2. ad 2. 2. 2. q. 1 A. 10. ad 1. Quid unquam aliud Ecclesia Câ—… ili rum Decretis enisa est nisi ut quod anica simplicitèr credebatur hoc idem postea diligentiùs crederetur Vin. Lyr. cont 〈◊〉 c. 32 Now the a Sent. 1. D. 11 Master teaches and the b Alb. Mag. in 1. Sent. D. 11 Art 7. Schollers too That every thing which belongs to the Exposition or Declaration of
speake of the Written Word and so lie crosse to Stapleton as is mention'd But to returne If A. C. will he may but I cannot believe That a Definition of the Church which is made by the expresse Word of God and another which is made without so much as a probable Testimony of it or a cleare Deduction from it are made firme to us by one and the same Divine Revelation Nay I must say in this case that the one Determination is firme by Divine Revelation but the other hath no Divine Revelation at all but the Churches Authority onely 2. Secondly I cannot believe neither That all Determinations of the Church are sufficiently applied by one and the same full Authority of the Church For the Authority of the Church though it be of the same fulnesse in regard of it self and of the Power which it commits to Generall Councels lawfully called yet it is not alwayes of the same fulnesse of knowledge and sufficiency nor of the same fulnesse of Conscience and integrity to apply Dogmata Fidei that which is Dogmaticall in the Faith For instance I thinke you dare not deny but the Councell of Trent was lawfully called and yet I am of opinion that few even of your selves believe that the Councell of Trent hath the same fulnesse with the Councell of Nice in all the fore-named kinds or degrees of fulnesse Thirdly suppose That all Determinations of the Church are made firme to us by one and the same Divine Revelation and sufficiently applied by one and the same full Authority yet it will not follow that they are all alike Fundamentall in the Faith For I hope A. C. himselfe will not say that the Definitions of the Church are in better condition than the Propositions of Canonicall Scripture Now all Propositions of Canonicall Scripture are alike firme because they all alike proceed from Divine Revelation but they are not all alike Fundamentall in the Faith For this Proposition of Christ to S. Peter and S. Andrew Follow me and I will make you fishers of men a S. Matth. 4. 19 is as firm a Truth as that which he delivered to his Disciples That he must die and rise againse the third day b S. Matth. 16. 21 For both proceed from the same Divine Revelation out of the mouth of our Saviour and both are sufficiently applied by one and the same full Authority of the Church which receives the whole Gospell of S. Matthew to be Canonicall and infallible Scripture And yet both these Propositions of Christ are not alike Fundamentall in the Faith For I dare say No man shall be saved in the ordinary way of salvation that believes not the Death and the Resurrection of Christ. And I believe A. C. dares not say that No man shall be saved into whose Capacity it never came that Christ made S. Peter and Andrew fishers of men And yet should he say it nay should he shew it sub annulo Piscatoris no man will believe it that hath not made shipwrack of his Common Notions Now if it be thus betweene Proposition and Proposition issuing out of Christ's own Mouth I hope it may well be so also betweene even Iust and True Determinations of the Church that supposing them alike true and firme yet they shall not be alike Fundamentall to all mens beliefe F. Secondly I required to know what Points the Bishop would account Fundamentall He said all the Points of the Creed were such B. Against this I hope you except not For § 11 since the a Tertull. Apol. contra Gentes c. 47. de veland virg c. 1. S. August Serm. 15. de Temp. cap. 2. Ruffin in Symb. apud Cyprian p. 357. Fathers make the Creed the Rule of Faith b Alb. Mag. in 1. Sent. D. 11. A. 7. since the agreeing sense of Scripture with those Articles are the two Regular Precepts by which a Divine is governed about the Faith since your owne Councell of c Concil Trident Sess. 3. Trent decrees That it is that Principle of Faith in which all that professe Christ doe necessarily agree Fundamentum firmum unicum not the firme alone but the onely Foundation since it is Excommunication d Bonavent ibid. Dub. 2. 3. in literam ipso jure for any man to contradict the Articles contained in that Creed since the whole Body of the Faith is so contained in the Creed as that the e Thom. 2. 2ae q. 1. Art 7. c. substance of it was believ'd even before the comming of Christ though not so expresly as since in the number of the Articles since f Bellar. L. 4. de Verb. Dei non Script c. 11. §. Primum est Bellarmine confesses That all things simply necessary for all mens salvation are in the Creed and the Decalogue what reason can you have to except And yet for all this everything Fundamentall is not of a like nearenesse to the Foundation nor of equall Primenesse in the Faith And my granting the Creed to be Fundamentall doth not deny but that there are g Tho. 2. 2ae q. 1. A. 7. C. quaedam prima Credibilia certaine prime Principles of Faith in the bosome whereof all other Articles lay wrapped and folded up One of which since Christ is that of S. h 1. S. Iohn 4. 2. Iohn Every spirit that confesseth Iesus Christ come in the flesh is of God And one both before the comming of Christ and since is that of S. Paul i Heb. 11. 6. He that comes to God must believe that God is and that he is a rewarder of them that seeke him Here A. C. tels you That either I must meane that those Points are onely Fundamentall which are expressed A. C. p. 46. in the Creed or those also which are infolded If I say those onely which are expressed then saith he to believe the Scriptures is not Fundamentall because 't is not expressed If I say those which are infolded in the Articles then some unwritten Church Traditions may be accounted Fundamentall The truth is I said and say still that all the Points of the Apostles Creed as they are there expressed are Fundamentall And therein I say no more than some of your best Learned have said before me But I never either said or meant That they onely are Fundamentall That they are a Conc. Trident. Sess. 3. Fundamentum unicum the only Foundation is the Councell of Trent's 't is not mine Mine is That the Beliefe of Scripture to be the Word of God and infallible is an equall or rather a preceding Prime Principle of Faith with or to the whole Body of the Creed And this agrees as before I told the Iesuite with one of your owne great Masters Albertus Magnus b In 1. Sent. D. 11. A. 7. Regula Fidei est concors Scriptururum sensus cum Articulis Fidei Quia illis duobus regularibus Praeceptis regitur Theologus who is not farre from
say that the Booke of Articles only was the Continent of the Church of Englands publike Doctrine She is not so narrow nor hath she purpose to exclude any thing which she acknowledges hers nor doth she wittingly permit any Crossing of her publike Declarations yet she is not such a shrew to her Children as to deny her Blessing or Denounce an Anathema against them if some peaceably dissent in some Particulars remoter from the Foundation as your owne Schoole men differ And if the Church of Rome since she grew to her greatnesse had not beene so fierce in this Course and too particular in Determining too many things and making them matters of Necessary Beliefe which had gone for many hundreds of years before only for things of Pious Opinion Christendome I perswade my selfe had beene in happier peace at this Day then I doubt we shall ever live to see it Well but A. C. will proove the Church of England a Shrew and such a Shrew For in her Booke * Can. 5. of Canons A. C. p. 48. She Excommunicates every man who shall hold any thing contrary to any part of the said Articles So A. C. But surely these are not the very words of the Canon nor perhaps the sense Not the Words for they are Whosoever shall affirme that the Articles are in any part superstitious or erroneous c. And perhaps not the sense For it is one thing for a man to hold an Opinion privately within himselfe and another thing boldly and publikely to affirme it And againe 't is one thing to hold contrary to some part of an Article which perhaps may bee but in the manner of Expression and another thing positively to affirme that the Articles in any part of them are superstitious and erroneous But this is not the Maine of the Businesse For though the Church of England Denounce Excommunication as is a Can. 5. before expressed Yet She comes farre short of the Church of Rome's severity whose Anathema's are not only for 39. Articles but for very many more * Concil Trident. above one hundred in matter of Doctrine and that in many Poynts as farre remote from the Foundation though to the farre greater Rack of mens Consciences they must be all made Fundamentall if that Church have once Determined them whereas the Church A. C. p. 45. of England never declared That every one of her Articles are Fundamentall in the Faith For 't is one thing to say No one of them is superstitious or erroneous And quite another to say Every one of them is fundamental and that in every part of it to all mens Beliefe Besides the Church of England prescribes only to her owne Children and by those Articles provides but for her owne peaceable Consent in those Doctrines of Truth But the Church of Rome severely imposes her Doctrine upon the whole World under paine of Damnation F. And that the Scriptures only not any unwritten Tradition was the Foundation of their Faith B. The Church of England grounded her Positive § 15 Articles upon Scripture and her Negative doe refute there where the thing affirmed by you is not affirmed by Scripture nor directly to be concluded out of it And here not the Church of England only but all Protestants agree most truly and most strongly in this That the Scripture is sufficient to salvation and containes in it all things necessary to it The Fathers a S. Basil. de verâ piâ fide Manifesta defectio Fidei est importare quicquam eorum quae scripta non sunt S. Hilar. L. 2. ad Const. Aug. Fidem tantùm secundum ca quae scripta sunt desider autem hoc qui repudiat Antichristus est qui simulat Anathema est S. Aug. L. 2. de Doctr. Christian. c. 9. In iis quae apertè in Scriptura posita sunt inveniuntur illa omnia quae continent sidem mâ—…resque vivendi And to this place Bellarm L. 4. de verbo Dei non scripto c. 11. saith that S. Augustine speakes de illis Dogmatibus quae necestaria sunt omnibus simpliciter of those Points of faith which are necessary simply for all men So farre then he grants the question And that you may know it fell not from him on the suddaine he had said as much before in the beginning of the same Chapter and here he confirmes it againe are plaine the b Sâ—…tus Proleg in sent q. 2. Scriptura sufficienter continet Doctrinam necessariam Uiatori Thom. 2. 2ae q. 1. A. 10. ad 1. In Doctrina Christi Apostolorum veritas fidei est suffi ientèr explicata And he speakes there of the written Word Schoolemen not strangers in it And have not we reason then to account it as it is The Foundation of our Faith And c Scripturam Fundamentum esse columnam Fidei fatemur in suo genere i. can genere Testimoniorum in materia Credendorum Relect. Con. 4. q. 1. Ar. 3. in fine Stapleton himselfe though an angry Opposite confesses That the Scripture is in some sort the Foundation of Faith that is in the nature of Testimony and in the matter or thing to be believed And if the Scripture be the Foundation to which we are to goe for witnesse if there be Doubt about the Faith and in which we are to find the thing that is to be believed as necessary in the Faith we never did nor never will refuse any Tradition that is Universall and Apostolike for the better Exposition of the Scripture nor any Definition of the Church in which she goes to the Scripture for what she teaches and thrusts nothing as Fundamentall in the Faith upon the world but what the Scripture fundamentally makes materiam Credendorum the substance of that which is so to be believed whether immediatly and expresly in words or more remotely till a cleare and full Deduction draw it out Against the beginning of this Paragraph A. C. excepts And first he sayes 'T is true that the Church of England grounded her Positive Articles upon Scripture A. C. p. 48. That is 't is true if themselves may be competent Iudges in their owne Cause But this by the leave of A. C. is true without making our selves Iudges in our owne Cause For that all the Positive Articles of the present Church of England are grounded upon Scripture we are content to be judged by the joynt and constant Beliefe of the Fathers which lived within the first foure or five hundred yeares after Christ when the Church was at the best and by the Councels held within those times and to submit to them in all those Points of Doctrine Therefore we desire not to be Iudges in our owne Cause And if any whom A. C. cals a Novellist can truly say and maintaine this he will quickly proove himselfe no Novellist And for the Negative Articles they refute where the thing affirmed by you is either not affirmed in
hope this is no part of your meaning Yet I doubt this b Qui conantur sidem destruere sub specie Questionis difficilis aut fortè indissolubilis c. Orig. Q. 35. in S. Matth. Question How doe you know Scripture to be Scripture hath done more harme than you will be ever able to helpe by Tradition But I must follow that way which you draw me And because it is so much insisted upon by you and is in it self a c To know that Scriptures are Divine and infallible in every part is a Foundation so necessary as if it bee doubtfully question'd all the Faith built upon Scripture fals to the ground A. C. p. 47. Necesse est nôsse extare Libros aliquos vere Divinos Bellarm. L. 4. de verb. Dei non scripto c. 4. §. Quarto necesse Et etiam libros qui sunt in manibus esse illos Ibid. §. Sexto oportet matter of such Consequence I will sift it a little farther Many men labouring to settle this great Principle in Divinity have used diverse meanes to prove it All have not gone the same way nor all the right way You cannot be right that resolve Faith of the Scriptures being the Word of God into onely Tradition For onely and no other proofe are equall To prove the Scripture therefore so called by way of Excellence to be the Word of God there are severall Offers at diverse proofes For first some flie to the Testimony and witnesse of the Church and 1. her Tradition which constantly believes and unanimously delivers it Secondly some to the Light 2. and the Testimony which the Scripture gives to it selfe with other internall proofes which are observed in it and to be found in no other Writing whatsoever Thirdly some to the Testimony of the Holy 3. Ghost which cleares up the light that is in Scripture and seales this Faith to the soules of men that it is Gods Word Fourthly all that have not imbrutished 4. themselves and sunke below their species and order of Nature give even Naturall Reason leave to come in and make some proofe and give some approbation upon the weighing and the consideration of other Arguments And this must be admitted if it be but for Pagans and Infidels who either consider not or value not any one of the other three yet must some way or other bee converted or left without excuse Rom. 1. and that is Rom. 1. 20. done by this very evidence 1. For the first The Tradition of the Church which is your way That taken and considered alone it is so farre from being the onely that it cannot be a sufficient Proofe to believe by Divine Faith that Scripture is the Word of God For that which is a full and sufficient proofe is able of it selfe to settle the soule of man concerning it Now the Tradition of the Church is not able to doe this For it may bee further asked why wee should believe the Churches Tradition And if it be answered we may believe Because the Church is infallibly governed by the Holy Ghost it may yet be demanded of you How that may appeare And if this be demanded either you must say you have it by speciall Revelation which is the private Spirit you object to other men or else you must attempt to prove it by Scripture a Esse aliquas veras Traditiones demonstratur ex Scripturis Bellar L. 4 de verbo Dei non Scripto c. 5. and A. C p. 50. proves Tradition out of 2 Thes. 2. as all of you doe And that very offer to prove it out of Scripture is a sufficient acknowledgement that the Scripture is a higher Proofe then the Churches Tradition w ch in your own Grounds is or may be Questionable till you come thither Besides this is an Inviolable ground of Reason * Arist. 1. Post. c. 2. T. 16. Per Pacium Quocirca si 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 propter prima scimus credimus illa quoque scimus credimus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 magis quia per illa scimus credimus etiam posteriora That the Principles of any Conclusion must be of more credite then the conclusion it self Therefore if the Articles of Faith The Trinity the Resurrection and the rest be the Conclusions and the Principles by which they are prooved be only Ecclesiasticall Tradition it must needs follow That the Tradition of the Church is more infallible then the Articles of the Faith if the Faith which we have of the Articles should be finally Resolved into the Veracity of the Churches Testimony But this †Eorum errorem dissimulare non possum qui asserunt fidern Nostram cò tanquà m in ultimam credendi causam reducendam esse Vt Credamus Ecclesiam esse Veracem c. M. Canus L. 2. de Locis c. 8. §. Cui tertium your Learned and wary men deny And therefore I hope your selfe dare not affirme Againe if the Voyce of the Church saying the Bookes of Scripture commonly received are the Word of God be the formall Object of Faith upon which alone absolutely I may resolve my selfe then every man not only may but ought to resolve his Faith into the Voyce or Tradition of the Church for every man is bound to rest upon the proper and formall Object of the Faith But nothing can bee more evident then this That a man ought not to resolve his Faith of this Principle into the sole Testimony of the Church Therefore neither is that Testimony or Tradition alone the formall Object of Faith * Uox Ecclesiae non est formale Obiectum Fidei Stapl. Relect. Cont 4. q. 3. A. 2. Licet in Articulo Fidei Credo Ecclesiam fortè contineatur hoc totum Credo ea quae docet Ecclesia tamen non intelligitur necessariò quod Credo docenti Ecclesiae tanquam Testi insallibili ibid. Vbi etiam rejicit Opinionem Durandi Gabr. Et Waldens L. 2 Doctr. Fidei Art 2. c. 21. Num. 4. Testimonium Ecclesiae Catholicae est Objectum Fidei Christianae Legislatio Scripturae Canonica subjicitur tamen ipsi sicut Testis Iudici Testimonium Veritati c. Canus Loc. Lib. 2. cap. 8. Nec si Ecclesia aditum nobis prabet ad hujusmodi Libros Sacros cognoscendos protinus ibi acquiescendum est sed ultrà â—…portet progredi Solidà Dei veritate niti c. The Learned of your owne part grant this †Although in that Article of the Creed I believe the Catholike Church peradventure all this be contained I believe those things which the Church teacheth yet this is not necessarily understood That I believe the Church teaching as an Infallible Witnesse And if they did not confesse this it were no hard thing to prove But here 's the cunning of this Devise All the Authority's of Fathers Councels nay of Scripture too b Omnis ergo Ecclesiastica Authoritas cùm sit ad
Testificandum de Christo Legibus ejus vilior est Christi legibus Scripturis Sanctis necessariò postponenda Wald. L. 2. Doct. Fidei Art 2. cap. 21. Numb 1. though this be contrary to their owne Doctrine must bee finally Resolved into the Authority of the Present Romane Church And though they would seeme to have us believe the Fathers and the Church of old yet they will not have us take their Doctrine from their owne Writings or the Decrees of Councels because as they say wee cannot know by reading them what their meaning was but from the Infallible Testimony of the present Romane Church teaching by Tradition Now by this two things are evident First That they ascribe as great Authority if not greater to a part of the Catholike Church as they doe to the whole which wee believe in our Creede and which is the Society of all Christians And this is full of Absurdity in Nature in Reason in All things That any c Totum est majus suâ parte Etiamsi Axioma sit apud Euclâ—…dem non tamen ideò Geometricum put andum est quia Geometres to utitur Vtitur enim tota Logica Ram in Schol. Matth. And Aristotle vindicates such Propositions 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from being vsurped by Particular Sciences 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Quia conveniunt omni Eâ—…ti non alicui Generi separatim 4. Metapb cap. 3. T. 7. Part should bee of equall worth power credit or authority with the Whole Secondly that in their Doctrine concerning the Infallibility of their Church their proceeding is most unreasonable For if you aske them Why they believe their whole Doctrine to be the sole true Catholike Faith Their Answer is Because it is agreeable to the Word of God and the Doctrine and Tradition of the Ancient Church If you aske them How they know that to be so They will then produce Testimonies of Scripture Councells and Fathers But if you aske a third time By what meanes they are assured that these Testimonies doe indeed make for them and their Cause They will not then have recourse to Text of Scripture or Exposition of Fathers or phrase and propriety of Language in which either of them were first written or to the scope of the Author or the d Intelligentia dictorum ex causis est assumenda dicendi quia non Sermonires sed Rei Sermo est subjectus S. Hilar. L. 4. de Trin. Ex materiâ dicti dirigendus est sensus Tert. L. de Resur carnis c. 37. Causes of the thing uttered or the Conference with like e Uidendo differentias Similium ad Similia Orig. Tract 19 in S Matth. Places or the Anteceden's f Recolendum est unde venerit ista Sententia qua illam superiora pepererint quibúsque connexa dependeat S. Aug. Ep. 29 Solet circumstantia Scriptura illuminare Sementiam S. Aug. L. 83. Quaest. q. 69. and Consequents of the same Places g Quae ambiguè obscurè in nonnullis Scripturae Sacrae locis dicta videntur per ea quae alibi certa indubitata habentur dâ—…clarantur S Basil in Regulis contractis Reg. 267. Manifestiora quaeque praevaleant de incertis certiora praescribant Tert. L. de Resur c. 19 21. S. Aug. L. 3. De Doct Christ. c. â—…6 Moris est Scripturarum obscuris Manifesta subnectere quod prius sub aenigmatibus dixerint apertâ voce proferre S. Hieron in Esa 19. princ Uide §. 26. Nu. 4. or the Exâ—…osition of the darke and doubtfull Places of Scripture by the undoubted and manifest With divers other Rules given for the true knowledge and understanding of Scripture which do frequently occurre in h S. Aug. L. 3. de Doctr. Christianâ S. Augustine No none of these or the like helpes That with them were to Admit a Private Spirit or to make way for it But their finall Answer is They know it to be so because the present Romane Church witnessethit according to Tradition So arguing à primo ad ultimum from first to last the Present Church of Rome and her Followers believe her owne Doctrine and Tradition to bee true and Catholike because she professes it to be such And if this bee not to proove idem per idem the same by the same I know not what is which though it be most absurd in all kind of learning yet out of this I see not how 't is possible to winde themselves so long as the last resolution of their Faith must rest as they teach upon the Tradition of the present Church only It seemes therefore to mee very necessary * And this is so necessary that Bellarmine confesses that if Tradition which he relies upon be not Divine He and his can have no Faith Non habemus fidem Fides enim verbo Dei nititur L. 4. de verbo Dei c. 4. §. At si ita est And A. C. tells us p. 47. To know that Scripture is Divine and Infallible in every part is a Foundation so necessary as if it be doubtfully questioned all the Faith built upon Scripture falls to the ground And he gives the same reason for it p. 50. which Belarmine doth that we bee able to proove the Bookes of Scripture to bee the Word of God by some Authority that is absolutely Divine For if they bee warranted unto us by any Authority lesse then Divine then all things contained in them which have no greater assurance then the Scripture in which they are read are not Objects of Divine beliefe And that once granted will enforce us to yeeld That all the Articles of Christian Beliefe have no greater assurance then Humane or Morall Faith or Credulity can afford An Authority then simply Divine must make good the Scriptures Infallibility at least in the last Resolution of our Faith in that Poynt This Authority cannot bee any Testimony or Voyce of the * Ecclesiam spiritu afflatam esse certè credo Non ut veritatâ—…m authoritatemve Libris Canonicis triâ—…uat sed ut doc eat illos non alios esse Canonicos Nec fi aditum nobis praebet ad hujusmodi sacros Librâ—…s cognoscendos protinus ibi acquiescendum est sed ultra oportet progredi solidâ Dei veritate niti Quâ ex re intelligitur quid sibi volucrit Augustinus quam ait Evangelio non crederem nisi c. M. Canus L. 2. de Locis c. 8 fol. 34. b. Non docet fundatam esse Evangelii fidem in Ecclesiae Authoritate sed c. Ibid. Church alone For the Church consists of men subject to Error And no one of them fince the Apostles times hath beene assisted with so plentifull a measure of the Blessed Spirit as to secure him from being deceived And all the Parts being all liable to mistaking and sallible the VVhole cannot possibly bee Infallible in and of it self and priviledged from being deceived in some Things oâ—…
of Divinity in this sort is a Science because it proceeds out of Principles that are knowne by the light of a Superiour Knowledge which is the Knowledge of God and the Blessed in Heaven In this Superiour Science this Principle The Scriptures are the Oracles of God is more then evident in full light This Superiour Science delivered this Principle in full revealed Light to the Prophets and Apostles †Non creditur Deus esse Author bujus Scientiae quia Homines hoc testati sunt in quantum Homines nudo Testimonio Humano sed in quantum circa eos effulsit virtus Divina â—…sa Deus iis sibi ipsi in eis Testimonium pâ—…buit Hen. à Gand. Sum. P. 1. A. 9. q. 3. This Infallible Light of this Principle made their Authority derivatively Divine By the same Divine Authoriâ—…y they wrote and delivered the Scripture to the Church Therefore from them immediately the Church received the Scripture and that uncorrupt though not in the same clearenesse of Ligâ—…t which they had And yet since no sufficient Reason hath or can be given that in any Substantiall thing it hath beene * Corruâ—…pi non possunt quia in manibus sunt omnium Christianorum Et quisquis hoc primitùs ausus esset multorum Codicum vetustiorum collatione confutaretur Maximè quia non unâ—… linguá sea multis continetur Scriptura Nonnullae autem Codicum mendositates vel de Antiquioribus vel de Linguá praecedente emendantur S. Aug. L. 32. cont Faustum c. 16. Corrupted it remaines firme at this day and that proved in the most Supreme Science and therefore now to bee supposed at least by all Christians That the Scripture is the Word of God So my Answer is good even in strictnesse That this Principle is to be supposed in this Dispute Besides the Iewes never had nor can have any other Proofe That the Old Testament is the Word of God then we have of the New For theirs was delivered by Moses and the Prophets and ours was delivered by the Apostles which were Prophets too The Iewes did believe their Scripture by a Divine Authority For so the Iewes argue themselves a S. Iohn 9. 29. S. Ioh. 9. We know that God spake with Moses b Maldonat in S. Ioh. 9. It aque non magis errare posse eum sequentes quà m si Deum ipsum sequerentur And that therefore they could no more erre in following Moses then they could in following God himselfe And our Saviour seemes to inferre as much c S. Ioh. 5. 47. S. Ioh. 5. where he expostulates with the Iewes thus If you believe not Moses his Writings how should you believe Me Now how did the Iewes know that God spake to Moses How why apparently the same way that is before set downe First by Tradition So S. d Hom. 57. iâ—… S. Ioh. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chrysostome We know why By whose witnesse do you know By the Testimony of our Ancestors But he speakes not of their immediate Ancestors but their Prime which were Prophets and whose Testimony was Divine into which namely their Writings the Iewes did Resolve their Faith And even that Scripture of the Old Testament was a e 2. S. Pet. 1. 19. Light and a shining Light too And therefore could not but be sufficient when Tradition had gone before And yet though the Iewes entred this way to their Beliefe of the Scripture they do not say f S. Chrys. ubi suprà 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Audivimus We have heard that God spâ—…ke to Moses but We know it So they Resolved their Faith higher and into a more inward Principle then an Eare to their immediate Ancestors and their Tradition And I would willingly learne of you if you can shew it me where ever any one Iew disputing with another about their Law did put the other to prove that the Old Testament was the Word of God But they still supposed it And when others put them to their Proofe this way they went And yet you say F. That no other Answer could be made but by admitting some Word of God unwritten to assure us of this Point B. I thinke I have shewed that my Answer is § 19 good and that no other Answer need be made If there were need I make no Question but another Answer might be made to assure us of this Point though we did not admit of any Word of God unwritten I say to assure us and you expresse no more If you had said to assure us by Divine Faith your Argument had beene the stronger But if you speake of Assurance onely in the generall I must then tell you and it is the great advantage which the Church of Christ hath against Infidels a man may be assured nay infallibly assured by Ecclesiasticall and Humane Proofe Men that never saw Rome may be sure and infallibly believe That such a Citie there is by Historicall and acquired Faith And if Consent of Humane Storie can assure me this why should not Consent of Church-storie assure me the other That Christ and his Apostles delivered this Body of Scripture as the Oracles of God For Iewes Enemies to Christ they beare witnesse to the Old Testament and Christians through almost all Nations †Tant a hominum temporum consensione firmatum S. Aug. L. de Mor. Eccles Cath. c. 29. Is Libri quoquo modo se habent sancti tamen Divinarum Rerum pleni prope totius generis humani Confessione diffamantur c. S. Aug. de util cred c. 7. L. 13. cont Faust. c. 15. give in evidence to both Old and New And no Pagan or other Enemies of Christianity can give such a Worthy and Consenting Testimonie for any Authoritie upon which they rely or almost for any Principle which they have as the Scripture hath gained to it self And as is the Testimony which it receives above all * Super omnes omnium Gentiâ—… Literas S. Aug. 11. de Civit. Dei c. 1. Writings of all Nations so here is assurance in a great measure without any Divine Authority in a Word written or Vnwritten A great assurance and it is Infallible too Only then we must distinguish Infallibility For first a thing may be presented as an infallible Object of Beliefe when it is true and remaines so For Truth quà talis as it is Truth can not deceive Secondly a thing is said to be Infallible when it is not only true and remains so actually but when it is of such invariable constancy and upon such ground as that no Degree of falshood at any time in any respect can fall upon it Certain it is that by Humane Authority Consent and Proofe a man may be assured infallibly that the Scripture is the Word of God by an acquired Habit of Faith cui non su'est falsum under which nor Error nor falshood is But he cannot be assured infallibly by Divine Faith a Incertum
erre if he keepe his chaire which yet he affirmes L. 4. de Rom. Pont. c. 4. §. 2. Protestants so you will but understand it s not erring in Absolute Fundamentall Doctrines And therefore 't is true also that there can bee no just Cause to make a Schisme from the whole Church But here 's the Iesuite's Cunning. The whole Church with him is the Romane and those parts of Christendome which subject themselves to the Romane Bishop All other parts of Christendome are in Heresie and Schisme and what A. C. pleases Nay soft For another Church may separate from Rome if Rome will separate from Christ. And so farre as it separates from Him and the Faith so farre may another Church sever from it And thâ—…s is all that the Learned Protestants doe or can say And I am sure all that ever the Church of England hath either said or done And that the whole Church cannot erre in Doctrines absolutely Fundamentall and Necessary to all mens Saâ—…vation besides the Authority of these Protestants most of them being of prime ranke seemes to me to be cleare by the Promise of Christ S. Matth. 16 â—…hat the gates of Hell shall not prevaile S. Matth. 16. 18. against it Whereas most certaine it is that the Gates of Hell prevaile very farre against it if the Whole Militant Church universally taken can Erre from or in the Foundation But then this Power of not Erring is not to be conceived as if it were in the Church primò per se Originally or by any power it hath of it selfe For the Church is constituted of Men and Humanum est errare all men can erre But this Power is in it partly by the vertue of this Promise of Christ and partly by the Matter which it teacheth which is the unerring Word of God so plainely and manifestly delivered to her as that it is not possible she should universally fall from it or teach against it in things absolutely necessary to Salvation Besides it would be well waighed whether to believe or teach otherwise will not impeach the Article of the Creed concerning the Holy Catholike Church which we professe we believe For the Holy Catholike Church there spoken of containes not onely the whole Militant Church on earth but the whole Triumphant also in Heaven For so †Ecclesia hic tota accipiâ—…da est non solum ex parâ—…e quà pâ—…rinatur â—…terris c. vâ—…tiam ex illa parte quae in coelâ—… c. S. Aug. Eâ—…hir c 56. S. Augustine hath long since taught me Now if the whole Catholike Church in this large extent be Holy then certainly the whole Militant Church is Holy as well as the Triumphant though in a far lower degree in as much as all * Nemo ex toto Sanctus Optat. L 7 contra Parmen Sanctification all Holinesse is imperfect in this life as well in Churches as in Men. Holy then the whole Militant Church is For that which the Apostle speakes of Abraham is true of the Church which is a Body Collective made up of the spirituall seed of Abraham Rom. 11. If the root be holy so are the branches Well then the whole Militant Church is Holy Rom. 11. 16. and so we believe Why but will it not follow then Thaâ—… the whole Militant Church cannot possibly erre in the Foundations of the Faith That she may erre in Superstructures and Deductions and other by and unnecessary Truths if her Curiosity or other weaknesse carry her beyond or cause her to fall short of her Rule no doubt need be made But if She can erre either from the Foundation or in it She can be no longer Holy and that Article of the Creed is gone For if She can erre quite from the Foundation then She is nor Holy nor Church but becomes an Infidell Now this cannot be For †Dum Christus or at in Excelso Návicula id est Eâ—…clesia â—…tur fluctibus in profundo c sed quia Christus orat non potest mergi S. Aug. Serm 14 de Verb. Domi. c 2. Et Bâ—…llar L. 3 ac Eccle Milit c. 13. Praesidiâ—… Christi fulâ—…itur Ecclâ—…siae perpetuitas ut inter turbulentas aâ—…itationes formiâ—…abiles mâ—…tus c. salva tamâ—…n maneat Câ—… L. 2. Instit c. 15. §. 3. Ipsa Symboli 〈◊〉 admonemur perpetuam residâ—…re in Ecclesia Christi remission m Peccatorum Calv. L. 4. Inst. c. 1. §. 17. Now remission of sins cannot be perpetuall in the Church if the Church it selfe be 〈◊〉 perpetuall But the Church it selfe cannot be perpetuall if it fall away all Divine Ancient and Moderne Romanists and Reformers agree in this That the whole Militant Church of Christ cannot fall away into generall Apostacy And if She Erre in the Foundation that is in some one or more Fundamentall Poynts of Faith then Shee may bee a Church of Christ still but not Holy but becomes Hereticall And most certain it is that no * Spiritus Sanctificationis non pâ—…ost inveniri in Haereticorum mentibus S. Hierom in Ierom. 10. Assemâ—…ly be it never so generall of such Hereticks is or can be Holy Other Errors that are of a meaner alay take not Holinesse from the Church but these that are dyed in graine cannot consist with Holinesse of which Faith in Christ is the very Foundation And therefore if we will keepe up our Creed the whole Militant Church must be still Holy For if it be not so still then there may be a time that Falsum may subesse Fidei Catholicae that falshood and that in a high degree in the very Article may be the Subject of the Catholike Faith which were no lesse then Blasphemy to affirme For we must still believe the Holy Catholike Church And if She be not still Holy then at that time when She is not so we believe a Falshood under the Article of the Catholike Faith Therefore a very dangerous thing it is to cry out in generall termes That the whole Catholike Militant Church can Erre and not limit nor distinguish in time that it can erre indeed for Ignorance it hath and Ignorance can Erre But Erre it cannot either by falling totally from the Foundation or by Hereticall Error in it For the Holinesse of the Church consists as much if not more in the Verity of the Faith as in the Integrity of Manners taught and Commanded in the Doctrine of Faith Now in this Discourse A. C. thinkes he hath met with me For he tells me that I may not only safely grant A. C. p. 56. that Protestants made the Division that is nâ—…w in the Church but further also and that with a safe Confidence as one did was it not you saith he That it was ill done of those who did first made the Separation Truly I doe not now remember whether I said it or no. But because A. C. shall have full satisfaction from me and without any Tergiversation if I did not
but his owne fiction For the most †Si demus errare non posse Ecclesiam in rebus ad salutem necessariis hic sensus noster est Idco hoc esse quia abdicatâ omni suâ sapientiâ à Spiritu Sancto doceri se per Uerbum Dei patitur Calv. L. 4. Inst c. 8. §. 13. And this also is our sense Uide sup §. 21. Nu. 5. Learned Protestants grant it But if he meane that the whole Church cannot Erre in any one Point of Divine Truth in generall which though by sundry Consequences deduced from the Principles is yet a Point of Faith and may proove dangerous to the Salvation of some which believe it and practise after it as his words seeme to import especially if in these the Church shall presume to determine without her proper Guide the Scripture as * Nostra sententia est Ecclesiam absolutè non posse errare nec in rebus absolutè necessariis nec in aliis quae credenda vel facienda nobis proponit sive habeantur expressè in Scripturis sive non Bellar. L. 3. dc Eccl. Mil. c. 14. §. 5. Bellarm. sayes She may and yet not Erre Then perhaps it may be said and without any wrong to the Catholike Church that the Whole Militant Church hath erred in such a Point of Divine Truth and of Faith Nay A. C. confesses expresly in his very next A. C. p. 58. words That the VVhole Church may at some time not know all Divine Truths which afterwards it may learne by study of Scripture and otherwise So then in A. C s. judgement the Whole Militant Church may at some time not know all Divine Truths Now that which knows not all must be ignorant of some and that which is ignorant of some may possibly erre in one Point or other The rather because he confesses the knowledge of it must be got by Learning and Learners may mistake and erre especially where the Lesson is Divine Truth out of Scripture out of Difficult Scripture For were it of plain and easie Scripture that he speakes the Whole Church could not at any time be without the knowledge of it And for ought I yet see the VVhole Church Militant hath no greater warrant against Not erring in then against Not knowing of the Points of Divine Truth For in S. Ioh. 16. S. Iohn 16. 13. There is as large a Promise to the Church of knowing all Points of Divine Truth as A. C. or any Iesuite can produce for Her Not erring in any And if She may be ignorant or mistaken in learning of any Point of Divine â—…ruth Doubtiesle in that state of Ignorance she may both Eâ—…re and teach her Error yea and teach that to be Divine Truth which is not Nay perhaps teach that as a Matter of Divine Truth which is contrary to Divine Truth Alwayes provided it be not in any Point simply Fundamentall of which the Whole Catholike Church cannot be Ignorant and in which it cannot Eire as hath * §. 21. Nu. 5. â—…efore beene prooved As for the Places of Scripture which A C. cites to proove that the Whâ—…l Church cannot Erre Generally in A. C p. 57. any one Point of Divine Truth be it Fundamentall or not they are known Places all of them and are alledged by A. C. three severall times in this short Tract and to three severall purposes Here to proove That A. C. p. 57. the Vniversall Church cannot erre Before this to prove A. C. p. 53. that the Tradition of the present Church cannot Erre After this to prove that the Pope cannot Erre He should A. C. p. 5. 73 have done well to have added these Places a fourth time to proove that Generall Councels cannot Erre For so doth both * Staple Relect. praef aâ—… Lâ—…ctoreÌ„ Stapleton and †Bellar. L. 2. de Concil c. 2. Bellarmine Sure A. C. and his fellowes are hard driven when they must fly to the same Places for such different purposes For A Pope may Erre where a Councell doth not And a Generall Councell may Erâ—…e where the Catholike Church cannot And therefore it is not likely that these Places should serve alike for all The first Place is Saint Matthew 16. There Christ told Saint Peter S. Mat. 16. 18. and we believe it most assuredly That Hell Gates shall never be able to prevaile against his Church But that is That they shall not prevaile to make the Church Catholike Apostatize and fall quite away from Christ or Erre in absolute 〈◊〉 which amounts to as much But the Promise reaches not to this that the Church shall never Erre no not in the lightest matters of Faith For it will not follow Hell Gates shall not prevaile against the Church Therefore Hellish Divells shall not tempt or assault and batter it And thus Saint a Pugnare potest Expugnari non potest S. Aug. L. de Symb. ad Catecum c. 6. Augustine understood the place It may fight yea and bee wounded too but it cannot be wholly overcome And Bellarmine himselfe applies it to proove * Bellar L. 3. de Eccl Milit. c. 13. §. 1. 2. That the Visible Church of Christ cannot deficere Erre so as quite to fall away Therefore in his judgement this is a true and a safe sense of this Text of Scripture But as for not Erring at all in any Point of Divine Truth and so making the Church absolutely Infallible that 's neither a true nor a safe sense of this Scripture And t is very remarkable that whereas this Text hath beene so much beaten upon by Writers of all sorts there is no one Father of the Church for twelve hundred yeares after Christ the Counterseit or Partiall Decretalls of some Popes excepted that ever concluded the Infallibility of the Church out of this Place but her Non deficiency that hath beene and is justly deduced hence And here I challenge A. C. and all that partie to shew the contrary if they can The next Place of Scripture is Saint Matthew 28. S. Mat. 28. 〈◊〉 The Promise of Christ that hee will bee with them to the end of the VVorld But this in the generall voyce of the * S Hil. in Psal. 124. Prosp. L. 2. de Vocat Gent. c. 2. Leo. Ser. 2. de Resur Dom. c. 3. Ep. 31. Isidor in Iosu. 12. Fathers of the Church is a promise of Assistance and Protection not of an Infallibility of the Church And †In omnibus quae Ministris suis commisit exequenda S. Leo. Epist. 91. c. 2. Pope Leo himself enlarges this presence and providence of Christ to all those things w ch he committed to the execution of his Ministers But no word of Infallibility is to be found there And indeed since Christ according to his Promise is present with his Ministers in all these things and that one and a Chiefe of these All is the preaching of his Word to the People
their own and are with all submission to be observed by every Christian where Scripture or evident Demonstration come not against them Nor doth it make way for the Whirlewind of a private Spirit For Private Spirits are too giddy to rest upon Scripture and too heady and shallow to be acquainted with Demonstrative Arguments And it were happy for the Church if she might never be troubled with Private Spirits till they brought such Arguments I know this is hotly objected against c Praefat. p. 29. Hooker the d Dialogus â—…ctus Deus Rex Authour cals him a e Cordatus Protestans Wise Protestant yet turnes thus upon him If a Councell must yeeld to a Demonstrative Proofe Who shall Iudge whether the Argument that is brought be a Demonstration or not For every man that will kicke against the Church will say the Scripture he urges is evident and his Reason a Demonstration And what is this but to leave all to the wildenesse of a Private Spirit Can any ingenuous man read this Passage in Hooker and dreame of a Private Spirit For to the Question Who shall judge Hooker answers as if it had beene then made f Praef. p. 29. And therefore A. C. is much to blame after all this to talk of a pretext of seeming evident Scripture or Demonstration As he doth p 59. An Argument necessary and Demonstrative is such saith he as being proposed to any man and understood the minde cannot chuse but inwardly assent unto it So it is not enough to thinke or say it is Demonstrative The Light then of a Demonstrative Argument is the Evidence which it selfe hath in it selfe to all that understand it Well but because all understand it not If a Quarrell be made Who shall decide it No Question a § 32. Nu. 2. but a Generall Councell not a Private Spirit first in the intent of the Authour for Hooker in all that Discourse makes the Sentence of the Councell b Praesat p. 28. binding and therefore that is made Judge not a Private Spirit And then for the Judge of the Argument it is as plaine For if it be evident to any man then to so many Learned men as are in a Councell doubtlesse And if they cannot but assent it is hard to thinke them so impious that they will define against it And if that which is thought evident to any man be not evident to such a grave Assembly it is probable 't is no Demonstration and the producers of it ought to rest and not to trouble the Church Nor is this Hooker's alone nor is it newly thought on by us It is a Ground in Nature which Grace doth ever set right never undermine And c 2 de Bapt cont Don. cap. 4. S. Augustine hath it twice in one Chapter That S. Cyprian and that Councell at Carthage would have presently yeelded to any one that would d Uni verum dicenti demonstr anti demonstrate Truth Nay it is a Rule with e Cont. Fund cap. 4. him Consent of Nations Authority confirmed by Miracles and Antiquity S. Peters Chaire and Succession from it Motives to keepe him in the Catholike Church must not hold him against Demonstration of Truth f Quae quidem si tam manifesta monâ—…ratur ut in dubtum â—…enire non possit praeponenâ—…a est omâ—…ibus ills rebus quiius in Catholica 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 aciquid apertissimâ—… in Euangelâ—… 〈◊〉 c. 4. which if it bee so clearely demonstrated that it cannot come into doubt it is to be preferred before all those things by which a man is held in the Catholike Church Therefore an evident Scripture or Demonstration of Truth must take place every where but where these cannot be had there must be Submission to Authority And doth not Bellarmine himselfe grant this For speaking of Councels he delivers this Proposition That Inferiours may not judge whether their Superiours and that in a Councell do proceed lawfully or not But then having bethought himselfe that Inferiours at all times and in all Causes are not to be cast off he adds this Exception a L. 2 de Concil c. 8. §. Alii dicunt Cencilium Nisi manifestissimè constet intolerabilem Errorem committi Unlesse it manifestly appeare that an intolerable Errour be committed So then if such an Errour be and be manifest Inferiours may do their duty and a Councell must yeeld unlesse you will accuse Bellarmine too of leaning to a Private Spirit for neither doth he expresse who shall judge whether the Errour be intolerable This will not downe with you but the Definition of a Generall Councell is and must be infallible Your Fellowes tell us and you can affirme no more That the Voice of the Church determining in Councell is not b Stapl. Relect. Cont. 4. Q. 3. Ar. 1. Humane but Divine That is well Divine then sure Infallible yea but the Proposition stickes in the throat of them that would utter it It is not Divine simply but in a c Divina suo modo Ibid. And so A. C. too who hath opened his mouth very wide to proove the Succession of Pastors in the Church to be of Divine and infallible Authority yet in the close is forced to add At least in some sort p. 51. manner Divine Why but then sure not infallible because it may speak lowdest in that manner in which it is not Divine Nay more The Church forsooth is an infallible Foundation of Faith d In altiori genere viz. in geners causae efficientis atque adeò aliquâ exparte formalis Ibid. Q. 4. Ar. 3. in an higher kinde then the Scripture For the Scripture is but a Foundation in Testimony and Matter to be believed but the Church as the efficient cause of Faith and in some sort the very formall Is not this Blasphemie Doth not this knock against all evidence of Truth and his owne Grounds that sayes it Against all evidence of Truth For in all Ages all men that once admitted the Scripture to be the Word of God as all Christians doe doe with the same breath grant it most undoubted and infallible But all men have not so judged of the Churches Definitions though they have in greatest Obedience submitted to them And against his owne Grounds that sayes it For the Scripture is absolutely and every way Divine the Churches Definition is but suo modo in a sort or manner Divine But that which is but in a sort can never be a Foundation in an Higher Degree then that which is absolute and every way such Therefore neither can the Definition of the Church be so infallible as the Scripture much lesse in altiori genere in a higher kinde then the Scripture But because when all other things faile you flie to this That the Churches Definition in a Generall Councell is by Inspiration and so Divine and infallible My haste shall not carrie mee from a little Consideration of that too Sixtly then If the
punished by the Church Bellarmine hath disputed this very learnedly and at large and I will not fill this Discourse with another mans labours The use I shall make of it runnes through all these Opinions and through all alike And truly the very Question it selfe supposes that A Pope may be an Heretick For if he cannot be an Heretick why doe they question whether he can be Deposed for being One And if he can be one then whether he can be deposed by the Church Before he be manifest or not till after or neither before nor after or which way they will it comes all to one for my purpose For I question not here his Deposition for his Heresie but his Heresie And I hope none of these Learned men nor any other dare deny but that if the Pope can be an Hereticke he can erre For every Heresie is an errour and more For 't is an Errour ofttimes against the Errants knowledge but ever with the pertinacie of his Will Therefore out of all even your owne Grounds If the Pope can be an Heretick he can erre grosly he can erre wilfully And he that can so Erre cannot bee Infallible in his Iudgement private or publike For if he can be an Hereticke he can and doubtlesse will Iudge for his Heresie if the Church let him alone And you your selves maintaine his Deposition lawfull to prevent this I verily believe a Pighius L. 4. Ecclesiastica Hierarchia c. 8. Alb. Pighius foresaw this blow And therefore he is of Opinion That the Pope cannot become an Hereticke at all And though b Communis Opinio est in contrarium Bellar L. 2. de Ro. Pont. c. 30. §. 2. Bellarmine favour him so farre as to say his Opinion is probable yet he is so honest as to adde that the common Opinion of Divines is against him Nay though c L. 4. de Ro. Pont. cap. 11. he Labour hard to excuse Pope Honorius the first from the Heresie of the Monothelites and sayes that Pope Adrian was deceived who thought him one yet d Tamen non possumus negare quin Adrianus cum Romano Concilio imò tota Synodus octava Generalis senserit in causâ Haresis posse Rom. Pontificem judicari Adde quod esset miserrima Conditio Ecclesia si Lupum manifestè grassantem pro Pastore agnoscere cogeretur Bellar L. 2. de Ro. Pont. c 30. §. 5. He confesses That Pope Adrian the second with the Councell then held at Rome and the eight Generall Synod did thinke that the Pope might be judged in the Cause of Heresie And that the condition of the Church were most miserable if it should be constrained to acknowledge a Wolfe manifestly raging for her Shepheard And here againe I have a Question to aske whether you believe the eight Generall Councell or not If you believe it then you see the Pope can erre and so He not Infallible If you believe it not then in your Iudgement that Generall Councell erres and so that not Infallible Thirdly It is altogether in vaine and to no use that the Pope should be Infallible and that according to your owne Principles Now God and Nature make nothing in vaine Therefore either the Pope is not Infallible or at least God never made him so That the Infallibility of the Pope had he any in him is altogether vaine and uselesse is manifest For if it be of any use 't is for the setling of Truth and Peace in the Church in all times of her Distraction But neither the Church nor any member of it can make any use of the Popes Infallibility that way Therefore it is of no use or benefit at all And this also is as manifest as the rest For before the Church or any particular man can make any use of this Infallibility to settle him and his Conscience hee must either Know or Believe that the Pope is Infallible But a man can neither Know nor Believe it And first for Beliefe For if the Church or any Christian man can believe it he must believe it either by Divine or by Humane Faith Divine Faith cannot be had of it For as is before prooved it hath no Ground in the written Word of God Nay to follow you closer it was never delivered by any Tradition of the Catholike Church And for Humane Faith no Rationall man can possibly believe having no Word of God to over-rule his Vnderstanding that he which is Fallible in the meanes as a Staple Relect. cont 4. q. 2. Notab 4. your selves confesse the Pope is can possibly be Infallible in the Conclusion And were it so that a Rationall man could have Humane Faith of this Infallibility yet that neither is nor ever can be sufficient to make the Pope Infallible No more then my strong Beliefe of another mans Honesty can make him an Honest man if he be not so Now secondly for Knowledge And that is altogether impossible too that either the Church or any Member of the Church should ever know that the Pope is Infallible And this I shall make evident also out of your owne Principles For your b Omnia Sacramenta tribus persiciuntur c. Decret Eugenii 4 in Concil Fleren Councell of Florence had told us That three things are necessary to every Sacrament the Matter the Forme of the Sacrament And the Intention of the Priest which Administers it that he intends to do as the Church doth Your c Con. Trid. Ses. 7. Can. 1. Councell of Trent confirmes it for the Intention of the Priest Vpon this Ground be it Rocke or Sand it is all one for you make it Rocke and build upon it I shall raise this Battery against the Popes Infallibility First the Pope if he have any Infallibility at all he hath it as he is Bishop of Rome and S. Peters Successor Bellaâ—… L 4. de Ro. Pent. c. 3. § 〈◊〉 Pâ—…vilegium est This is granted Secondly the Pope cannot be Bishop of Rome but he must be in holy Orders first And if any man be chosen that is not so the Election is void ipso facto propter errorem Personae for the Errour of the Person †Constantinus ex Laiâ—…o Papa circa Ann. 767. ejectus Papatu Et Steph 3. qui successit habito Concilio statuit ne quis nisi per Gradus Ecclesiasticos ascendens Pontifiâ—…atuÌ„ occupare auderet sub paenâ Anathematis Decret Dist. 79. c. Nullus This is also granted Thirdly He that is to be made Pope can never be in Holy Orders but by receiving them from One that hath Power to Ordaine This is notoriously knowne So is it also that with you Order is a Sacrament properly so called And if so then the Pope when he did receive the Order of Deacon or Priesthood at the hands of the Bishop did also receive a Sacrament Vpon these Grounds I raise my Argument thus Neither the Church nor any Member of the Church can know that
1. We offer and present unto thee O Lord our selves our soules and bodies to be a reasonable holy and living Sacrifice unto thee So the Church of England in the Prayer after the receiving of the Blessed Sacrament by every particular man for himself onely and that is the Sacrifice of every mans Body and Soule to serve him in both all the rest of his life for this blessing thus bestowed on him Now thus farre these dissenting Churches agree that in the Eucharist there is a Sacrifice of Duty and a Sacrifice of Praise and a Sacrifice of Commemoration of Christ. Therefore according to the former Rule and here in truth too 't is fafest for a man to believe the Commemorative the Praising and the Performing Sacrifice and to offer them duly to God and leave the Church of Rome in this Particular to her Superstitions that I may say no more And would the Church of Rome stand to A. C s. Rule and believe dissenting Parties where they agree were it but in this and that before of the Reall Presence it would work farre toward the Peace of Christendome But the Truth is They pretend the Peace of Christendome but care no more for it then as it may uphold at least if not increase their owne Greatnesse My fourth Instance shall be in the Sacrament of Baptisme and the things required as necessary to make it Punct 4. effectuall to the Receiver They in the common received Doctrine of the Church of Rome are three The Matter the Forme and the Intention of the Priest to doe that which the Church doth and intends he should doe Now all other Divines as well ancient as moderne and both the dissenting Churches also agree in the two former but many deny that the Intention of the Priest is necessary Will A. C. hold his Rule That 't is safest to believe in a controverted Point of Faith that which the dissenting Parties agree on or which the Adverse Part Confesses If he will not then why should he presse that as a Rule to direct others which he will not be guided by himselfe And if he will then he must goe professedly against the * Con. Trid. Sess. 7. Can. 11. Councell of Trent which hath determined it as defide as a Point of Faith that the Intention of the Priest is necessary to make the Baptisme true and valid Though in the †Histor. Con. Trid. L. 2. p. 277. Edit Lat. Leyâ—… dae 1622. History of that Councell 't is most apparent the Bishops and other Divines there could not tell what to answer to the Bishop of Minors a Neapolitane who declared his Iudgement openly against it in the face of that Councell My fift Instance is Wee say and can easily Punct 5. prove there are divers Errors and some grosse ones in the Roman Missall But I my selfe have heard some Iesuites confesse that in the Liturgie of the Church of England there 's noe positive errour And being pressed why then they refused to come to our Churches and serve God with us They answered they could not doe it Because though our Liturgie had in it nothing ill yet it wanted a great deale of that which was good and was in their Service Now here let A. C. consider againe Here is a plaine Concession of the adverse Part And Both agree there 's nothing in our Service but that which is holy and good What will the Iesuite or A. C. say to this If hee forsake his ground then it is not safest in point of Divine Worship to joyne in Faith as the dissenting Parties agree or to stand to the Adversaries owne Confession If hee be so hardy as to maintaine it then the English Liturgie is better and safer to worship Cod by then the Romane Masse Which yet I presume A. C. will not confesse In all these Instances the Matter so falling out of it selfe for the Argument enforces it not the thing is true but not therefore true because the dissenting Parties agree in it or because the adverse Part Confesses it Yet least the Iesuite or A. C. for him farther to deceive the weake should inferre that this Rule in so many Instances is true and false in none but that one concerning Baptisme among the Donatists and therefore the Argument is true ut plerumque as for the most and that therfore 't is the safest way to believe that which dissenting Parties agree on I will lay downe some other Particulars of as great Consequence as any can be in or about Christian Religion And if in them A. C. or any Iesuite dare say that 't is safest to believe as the dissenting Parties agree or as the adverse Partie confesses I dare say he shall bee an Heretick in the highest degree if not an Infidell And First where the Question was betwixt the Ortbodox and the Arrian whether the Son of God were Punct 1. consubstantiall with the Father The Orthodox said he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the same substance The Arrian came within a Letter of the Truth and said he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of like substance Now hee that sayes hee is of the same substance confesses hee is of like substance and more that is Identity of Substance for Identity containes in it all Degrees of likenesse and more But hee that acknowledges and believes that Hee is of like nature and no more denies the Identity Therefore if this Rule be true That it is safest to believe that in which the dissenting Parties agree or which the Adverse Part Confesses which A. C. makes such great vaunt of then 't is safest A. C. p. 64. 65. for a Christian to believe that Christ is of like nature with God the Father and bee free from Beliefe that Hee is Consubstantiall with him which yet is Concluded by the a Con. Nicen. Fides vel Symbolum in fine Concil Councell of Nice as necessary to Salvation and the Contrary Condemned for Damnable Heresie Secondly in the Question about the Resurrection Punct 2. betweene the Orthodoxe and diverse Grosse b Saturninus Basilides Carpocrates Cerinthus Valentinus Cerdon Apelles c. Tertull. de praescript advers Haret c. 46. 48. 49. 51. c. Heretickes of old and the Anabaptists and Libertines of late For all or most of these dissenting Parties agree that there ought to bee a Resurrection from sinne to a state of Grace and that this Resurrection onely is meant in diverse Passages of holy Scripture together with the Life of the Soule which they are content to say is Immortall But c Libertini rident speâ—… omnem quam de Resurrectione habemus idque jam nobis evenisse dicunt quod adhuc expectamus c. ut Homo sciat Animam suam Spiritum immortalem esse perpeâ—… viventem in Coelis c. Calv. instructione advers Libertinos c. 22. princ Sunt etiam hodie Libertini qui eam irrident Resurrectionem quae tractatur in Scripturis tantùm ad
the printed Edition of Gildas by Polyd. Virg. which Edition was printed at London An. 1525. and was never reprinted since Thirdly these words are as expresse in the Edition of Gildas by Io. Ioselin printed at London also An. 1568. And this falshood of Broughton is so much the more foule because he boasts Proetat to his Reader fine That he hath seene and diligâ—…ntly perused the most and best Monuments and Antiquities extant c. For if he did not see and peruse these he is vainely false to say it if he did see them he is most maliciously false to belie them And lastly whereas he sayes The Protestants themselves confesse so much I must believe he is as false in this as in the former till he name the Protestants to me which do confesse it And when he doth he shall gaine but this from me That those Protestants which confessed it were mistaken For the thing is mistaken but not the Eldest neither had a great Care committed unto her in and from the prime times of the Church and to her Bishop in Her but at this time to let passe many brawles that have formerly beene in the House England and some other Sisters of hers are fallen out in the Family What then Will the Father and the Mother God and the Church cast one Child out because another is angry with it Or when did Christ give that power to an Elder Sister that She and her Steward the Bishop there should thrust out what Child shee pleased Especially when shâ—…e her selfe is justly accused to have given the Offence that is taken in the House Or will not both Father and Mother be sharper to Her for this unjust and unnaturall usage of her younger Sisters but their deare Children Nay is it not the next way to make them turne her out of doores that is so unnaturall to the rest It is well for all Christian men and Churches that the Father and Mother of them are not so curst as some would have them And Salvation need not bee feared of any dutifull Child nor Outing from the Church because this Elder Sisters faults are discovered in the House and shee growne froward for it against them that complained But as Children cry when they are waked out of sleepe so doe you and wrangle with all that come neare you And * Returne of Untruths upon M. Iewell Art 4. Vntruth 105. Stapleton confesses That yee were in a dead sleep and over-much rest when the Protestants stole upon you Now if you can prove that Rome is properly The †For I am sure there is a Romane Church that is but a Particular Bellarm L. 4. de Rom. Pont. c. 4. And then you must either shew me another Romane Church which is The Catholike Or you must shew how One and the same Romane Church is in different Respects or Relations A Particular and yet The Catholike Which is not yet done And I do not say A Particular and yet A Catholâ—…ke Bâ—…t A Particular and yet The Catholike Church For so you speake For that which Card. Peron hath That the Romane Church is the Catholike Causally because it infuses Vniversality into all the whole Body of the Catholike Church can I thinke satisfie no man that reads it That a Particular should infuse Vniversality into an Vniversall Peron L. 4. of his Reply c. 9. Catholike Church it selfe as you commonly call it speak out and prove it In the meane time you may Marke this too if you will and it seemes you doe for here you forget not what the Bishop said to you F. The Lady which doubted said the Bishop to mee may be better saved in it then you B. I said so indeed Marke that too Where yet by the way these words Then you doe not suppose Person § 36 only For I will Iudge * Rom. 14. 4. no man that hath another Master to stand or fall to But they suppose Calling and Sufficiency in the Person Then you that is Then any man of your Calling and knowledge of whom more is required And then no question of the truth of this speech That that Person may better be saved that is easier then you then any man that knowes so much of truth and opposes against it as you and others of your Calling doe How far you know Truth other men may judge by your Proofes and Causes of knowledge but how far you oppose Truth knowne to you that is within and no man can know but God and yourselves Howsoever where the Foundation is but held there for †Caeteram turbam non intelligendi vivacitas sed credendi simplicitas tutissimam facit S. Aug. cont Fund c. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Naz. Orat. 21. Omission of Inquiry many times saves the People ordinary men it is not the vivacity of understanding but the simplicity of Beleiving that makes them safe For S. Augustine speakes there of men in the Church and no * Haeretickes in respect of the Profession of sundry Divine Verities which they still retaine in common with right Believers c. doe still pertaine to the Church Field L. 1. de Eccles. c. 14. Potest aliquis Ecclesiae membrum esse secundùm quid qui tamen simpliciter non est Haereticus recedens à Fide non dimittitur ut Paganus sed propter Baptismi Characterem punitur ut transfuga excommunicationis gladio Spiritualitèr occiditur Stapl. Contro 1. q. 2. A. 3. Notabili 3. The Apostle pronounces some gone out S. Ioh 2. 19. from the fellowship of sound Beleivers when as yet the Christian Religion they had not utterly cast off In like sense and meaning throughout all Ages Haeretikes have justly beene hated as Branches cut off from the true Vine yet onely so far forth cut off as the Haeresies have extended For both Haeresie and many other Crimes which wholly sever from God doe sever from the Church of God but in part only Hooker L. 5. Eccles. Pol. §. 68. man can be said simply to be Out of the Visible Church that is Baptized and holds the Foundation And as it is the simplicity of beleiving that makes them safe yea safest so is it sometimes A quicknesse of Understanding that loving it selfe and some by-respects too well makes men take up an unsafe way about the Faith So that there 's no question but many were saved in corrupted times of the Church when their a Ipsis Magiâ—… pereuntibus 〈◊〉 fortè ante â—…tem resipuerâ—… Luth. de Sov Arbit Haeresiarchae plâ—…s peccant quam alii qui Haeresin aliquam sunt secuti Supplem Tho q. 99. A. 4. c Leaders unlesse they repented before death were lost And b Si mihi videretur unus idem Haereticus Haereticis credens homo c. S. Aug. L. 1. de Util. Cred. c. 1. S. Augustine's Rule will bee true That in all Corruptions of the Church there will ever bee a difference betweene an Hereticke and a plaine
Contrary to his Conscience Presupposing it granted that the Church of Rome erres only in not Fundamentals and such Errours not Damnable which is absolutely and clearly denyed by D. White To this A. C. sayes nothing but that D. VVhite did not give this Answer A. C. p. 67. at the Conference I was not present at the Conference betweene them so to that I can say nothing as a witnesse But I thinke all that knew D. White will believe his affirmation as soone as the Iesuites To say no more And whereas A. C. referres to the Relation of the Conference betweene D. White and M. Fisher A. C. p. 67. most true it is there * A. C. in his relation of that Conference p. 26. D. VVhite is charged to have made that Answer twise But all this rests upon the credit of A. C. only For †For so 't is said in the Title-page by A. C. he is said to have made that Relation too as well as this And against his Credit I must engage D. Whites who hath avowed another Answer as a §. 37. Nu. 1. NUM 8. before is set downe And since A. C. relates to that Conference which it seemes hee makes some good account of I shall here once for all take occasion to assure the Reader That most of the Points of Moment in that Conference with D. VVhite are repeated againe and againe and urged in this Conference or the Relation of A. C. and are here answered by me For instance In the Relation of the first Conference the Iesuite takes on him to prove 1 the Vnwritten VVord of God out of 2. Thes. 2. pag. 15. And so he doth in the Relation of this Conference with me pag. 50. In the first he stands upon it That the Protestants 2 upon their Principles cannot hold that all Fundamentall points of Faith are contained in the Creed pag. 19. And so he doth in this pag. 46. In the first he would faine through 3 M. Roger's sides wound the Church of England as if shee were unsetled in the Article of Christ's Descent into Hell pag 21 And he endeavours the same in this pag. 46. In the first he is very earnest to prove That the Schisme was made by the Protestants pag. 23. And he is as earnest for 4 it in this pag. 55. In the first he layes it for a Ground That Corruption of Manners is no just Cause of separation 5 from Faith or Church pag. 24. And the same Ground he layes in this pag. 55. In the first he will have it That the 6 Holy Ghost gives continuall and Infallible Assistance to the Church pag. 24. And just so will he have it in this p 53. In the first he makes much adoe about the Errig of the 7 Greeke Church page 28. And as much makes he in this page 44. In the first he makes a great noyse about the 8 place in S. Augustine Ferendus est disputator errans c. page 18. and 24. And so doth hee here also page 45. In the first he would make his Proselytes believe That 9 he and his Cause have mighty advantage by that Sentence of S. Bernard 'T is intolerable Pride And that of S. Augustine 'T is insolent madnesse to oppose the Doctrine or Practice of the Catholike Church page 25. And twise he is at the same Art in this page 56. and. 73. In the first he 10 tels us That * Postquam discessionem a toto mundo facere coacti sumus Calv. Epist. 141. Calvin confesses That in the Reformation there was a Departure from the whole world page 25. And though I conceive Calvine spake this but of the Roman world and of no Uoluntary but a forced Departure and wrote this to Melancthon to worke Vnity among the Reformers not any way to blast the Reformation Yet we must heare of it againe in this page 56. But over and above the rest one Place with his owne glosse upon 11 it pleases him extremely 'T is out of S. Athanasius his Creed That whosoever doth not hold it entire that is saith he in all Points and Inviolate that is saith hee in the true unchanged and uncorrupted sense proposed unto us by the Pastors of his Catholike Church without doubt he shall perish everlastingly This he hath almost verbatim in the first page 20. And in the Epistle of the Publisher of that Relation to the Reader under the Name of VV. I. and then againe the very same in this if not with some more disadvantage to himselfe page 70. And perhaps had I leasure to search after them more Points then these Now the Reasons which mooved mee to set downe these Particulars thus distinctly are two The One that whereas the * In the begining of the Conference set out by A. C. Iesuite affirmes that in a second Conference all the speech was about Particular matters and little or nothing about the maine and great generall Point of a Continuall Infallible Uisible Church in which that Lady required satisfaction and that therefore this third Conference was held It may hereby appeare that the most materiall both Points and Proofes are upon the matter the very same in all the three Conferences though little bee related of the second Conference by A. C. as appeares in the Preface of the Publisher VV. I. to the Reader So this tends to nothing but Ostentation and shew The Other is that Whereas these men boast so much of their Cause and their Ability to defend it It cannot but appeare by this and their handling of other Points in Divinity that they labour indeed but no otherwise then like an Horse in a Mill round about in the same Circle no farther at night then at noone The same thing over and over againe from Tu es Petrus to Pasce oves from thou art Peter to Do thou feed my Sheepe And backe againe the same way F. The Lady asked Whether she might be saved in the Protestant Faith Vpon my soule said the Bishop you may Vpon my soule said I there is but one saving Faith and that is the Romane B. So it seems I was confident for the Faith professed § 38 in the Church of England els I would not have taken the salvation of another upon my soule And sure I had reason of this my Confidence For to believe the Scripture and the Creeds to believe these in the sense of the Ancient Primitive Church To receive the foure great Generall Councels so much magnified by Antiquity To believe all Points of Doctrine generally received as Fundamentall in the Church of Christ is a Faith in which to live and die cannot but give salvation And therefore I went upon a sure ground in the adventure of my soule upon that Faith Besides in all the Points of Doctrine that are contioverted betweene us I would faine see any one Point maintained by the Church of England that can be proved
to depart from the Foundation You have many dangerous Errours about the very Foundation in that which you call the Romane Faith But there I leave you to looke to your owne soule and theirs whom you seduce Yet this is true too That there is but one saving Faith But then every thing which you call De Fide of the Faith because some Councell or other hath defined it is not such a Breach from that One saving Faith as that he which expresly believes it not nay as that he which believes the Contrary is excluded from Salvation so his a S. 22. Nu. 5. Disobedience there while offer no violence to the Peace of the Church nor the Charity which ought to be among Christians And b Multa sunt de side quae non sunt absolutè necessaria as Salutem Bellar. L. 3. de Eccles. Milit. c. 14. §. Quinto si esset Bellarmine is forced to grant this There are many Things de Fide which are not absolutely necessary to salvation c Wald. Doct. Fid. l. 2. Ar. 2. § 23. Therefore there is a Latitude in the Faith especially in reference to different mens salvation To set d §. 38. Nu. 8. Bounds to this and strictly to define it for particular men Just thus farre you must believe in every Particular or incurre Damnation is no worke for my Pen. These two things I am sure of One That your peremptory establishing of so many things that are remote Deductions from the Foundation to bee believed as Matters of Faith necessary to Salvation hath with other Errours lost the Peace and Unity of the Church for which you will one day Answer And the other That you of Rome are gone farther from the Foundation of this One saving Faith then can ever be proved we of the Church of England have done But here A. C. bestirres himselfe finding that he is come upon the Point which is indeed most considerable A. C. p. 68. And first hee answers That it is * Pope Pelagius the second thought it was sufficient For when the Bishops of Istria deserted his Communion in Causa trium Capitulorum He first gives them an Account of his Faith that he embraced that Faith which the Apostles had delivered and the foure Synods explicated And then he adds Ubi ergo de Fidei firmitate nulla vobis poterit quastio vel suspicis generari c. Concil To. 4. p. 473. Edit Paris So then that Pope thought there could be no question made or suspition had of any mans faith that professed that Faith which the Apostles delivered as 't is explicated by those Great Councels And yet now with A. C. 't is not sufficient Or els he holds the Faith of our Lord Iesus Christ in such râ—…spect of persons contrary to the Apostles Rule S. James 2. 12. as that profession of it which was sufficient for Pope Pelagius shall not be sufficient for the poore Protestants not sufficient to beget a Confidence in this Case to say wee believe the Scriptures and the Creeds in the same sense which the Ancient Primitive Church believed them c. Most true if we onely say and do not believe And let them which believe not while they say they doe looke to it on all sides for on all sides I doubt not but such there are But if we doe say it you are bound in Charity to believe us unlesse you can prove the Contrary For I know no other proofe to men of any Point of Faith but Confession of it and Subscription to it And for these particulars we have made the one and done the other So 't is no bare saying but you have all the proofe that can be had or that ever any Church required For how farre that Beliefe or any other sinkes into a man's heart is for none to judge but God Next A. C Answers That if to say this be a sufficient Cause of Confidence he marvels why I make such A. C. p. 68. difficulty to bee Confident of the Salvation of Romane Catholikes who believe all this in a faire better manner then Protestants doe Truly to say this is not a sufficient cause but to say and believe it is And to take off A. C s. wonder why I make difficulty great difficulty of the salvation of Romane Catholikes who he sayes believe all this and in a farre better manner then Protestants doe I must be bold to tell him That Romanists are so farre from believing this in a better manner then we do that under favour they believe not part of this at all And this is most manifest For the Romanists dare not believe but as the Romane Church believes And the Romane Church at this day doth not believe the Scripture and the Creeds in the sense in the which the Ancient Primitive Church received them For the Primitive Church never interpreted Christ's descent into Hell to be no lower then Limbus Patrum Nor did it acknowledge a Purgatory in a side-part of Hell Nor did it ever interpret away halfe the Sacrament from Christ's owne Institutior which to breake * Stapl. Returne of Vntruths upon B. Iewell Art 2. Vntruth 49 fol. 44. Stapleton confesses expresly is a damnable Errour Nor make the Intention of the Priest of the Essence of Baptisme Nor believe worship due to Images Nor dreame of a Transubstantiation which the Learned of the Romane Partie dare not understand properly for a change of one substance into another for then they must grant that Christ's reall and true Body is made of the Bread and the Bread changed into it which is properly Transubstantiation Nor yet can they expresse it in a credible way as appeares by †Est totalis Conversio substantiae Panis Vini in Corpus Sanguinâ—…m Domini Bellar. L. 3. de Euchar. c. 18. §. 1. Substantiaâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Transubstantiatio sicut Ecclesia appellat Greg. de Valen. To. 4 〈◊〉 q. 3. punct 3. Now you shall see what stuffe Bellarmine makes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Conversio Panis in Corpus Domini nec est Productiva nâ—… Conservatâ—… sed Adductiva Nam Corpus Domini praeexistit ante Conversionem 〈◊〉 non sub speâ—…iebus Panis Conversio igitur non facit ut Corpus Christ simplicitèr esse incipiat sed ut incipiat esse sub speciebus Panis 〈◊〉 Bellar. L. 3. de Euchar. c. 18. §. Ex his colligimus So upon the whole matter there shall be a totall Conversion of the Bread into the Body of Christ And yet there shall be no Conversion at all but a Bringing of the Body of Christ before praeexistent to be now under the Species of Bread where before it was not Now this is meerly Translocation 't is not Transubstantiation And I would have Bellarm. or any Iesuite for him shew where Conversio Adductiva is read in any good Author But when Bellar. comes to the Recognition of his workes upon this place he tels us That some excepted against him
as if this were Translocation rather then Transubstantiation So in this charge upon him I am not alone And faine would be shift off this but it will not be But while he is at it he runs into two pretty Errours beside the maine one The first is That the body of Christ in the Sacrament begins to be non ut in loco sed ut substantia sub Accidentibut Now let Bellarm. or A. C. for him give me any one Instance That a Bodily Substance under Accidents is or can be any where and not ut in loco as in some place and he sayes somwhat The second is That some Fathers and others seeme he sayes but I see it not to approve of his manner of speech of Conversion by Adduction And he tels us for this that Bonaventure sayes expresly In Transubstantiatione fit ut quod erat alicubi sine sui mutations sit alibi Now first here 's nothing that can be drawne with Cart-ropes to prove conversion by Adduction For if there be Conversion there must be Change And this is fine mutatione sui And secondly I would faine know how a Body that is alicubi shall be alibi without change of it selfe and yet that this shall be rather Transubstantiation then Translocation Besides 't is a Phrase of very sowre Consequence should a man squâ—…eze it which Bellar. uses there even in his Recognition Panis transit in Corpus Christi Bellarmines struggle about it w ch yet in the end cannot bee or bee called Transubstantiation and is that which at this day is a †A Scandall and a grievous one For this grosse Opinion was but confirmed in the Councell of Lateran It had got some footing in the Church the two blinde ages before For Berengarius was made recant in such Termes as the Romanists are put to their shifts to excuse Bellar. L. 3. de Euchar. c. 24. §. Quartum Argumentum For he sayes expresly Corpus Christi posse in Sacramento sensualitèr manibus Sacerdotum tractari frangi fidelium dentibus atteri Decr. par 3. de Consecratione Dist. 2. C. Ego Berengarius Now this Recantation was made about the yeare 1050. And the Councell of Lateran was in the yeare 1215. Betâ—…ene this grosse Recantation of Berengarius and that Councell the great Learned Physitian and Philosopher Averroes lived and tooke scandall at the whole Body of Christian Religion for this And thus he saith Mundum peragravi c. non vidi Sectam deteriorem aut magis fatuam Christianâ quia Deum quem colunt dentibus devorans Espeneaeus L. 4. de Euchar adoratione c. 3. scandall to both Iew Gentile and the Church of God * NUM 4. A. C. p. 69. For all this A. C. goes on and tels us That they of Rome cannot be proved to depart froÌ„ the Foundation somuch as ProtestaÌ„ts do So then We have at last a Confession here that they may be prooved to depart from the Foundation though not so much or so farre as the Protestants doe I do not meane to answer this and prove that the Romanists do depart as farre or farther from the Foundation then the Protestants for then A. C. would take me at the same lift and say I granted a departure too Briefly therefore I have named here more Instances then one In some of which they have erred in the Foundation or very neare it But for the Church of England let A. C. instance if he can in any one point in which She hath departed from the Foundation Well that A. C. will do For he sayes The Protestants erre against the Foundation by denying Infallible A. C. p. 69. Authority to a Generall Councell for that is in effect to deny Infallibility to the whole Catholike Church a §. 33. Consid. 4. Nu 1. No there 's a great deale of difference betweene a Generall Councell and the whole Body of the Church And when a Generall Councell erres as the second of Ephesus did out of that great Catholike Body another may be gathered as was then that of Chalcedon to doe the Truth of Christ that right which belongs unto it Now if it were all one in effect to say a Generall Councell can erre and that the Whole Church can erre there were no Remedy left against a Generall Councell erring b §. 33. Consid. 7. Nu. 4. which is your Case now at Rome and which hath thrust the Church of Christ into more straits then any one thing besides But I know where you would be A Generall Councell is Infallible if it be confirmed by the Pope and the Pope he is Infallible els he could not make the Councell so And they which deny the Councels Infallibility deny the Pope's which confirmes it And then indeed the Protestants depart a mighty way from this great Foundation of Faith the Popes Infallibility But God be thanked this is only from the Foundation of the present Romane Faith as A. C. and the Iesuite call it not from any Foundation of the Christian A. C. p. 68. Faith to which this Infallibility was ever a stranger From Answering A. C. fals to asking Questions I thinke he meanes to try whether he can win any thing upon me by the cunning way A multis Interrogationibus simul by asking many things at once to see if any one may make me slip into a Confession inconvenient And first he asks How Protestants admitting no Infallible Rule of Faith but A. C. p. 69 Scripture onely can be infallibly sure that they believe the same entire Scripture and Creed and the Foure first Generall Councels and in the same incorrupted sense in which the Primitive Church believed 'T is just as I said Here are many Questions in one and I might easily be caught would I answer in grosse to them all together but I shall go more distinctly to worke Well then I admit no ordinary Rule left now in the Church of Divine and Infallible Verity and so of Faith but the Scripture And I believe the entire Scripture first by the Tradition of the Church Then by all other credible Motives as is before expressed And last of all by the light which shines in the Scripture it selfe kindled in Believers by the Spirit of God Then I believe the entire Scripture Infallibly and by a Divine Infallibility am sure of my Object Then am I as sure of my Believing which is the Act of my Faith conversant about this Object For no man believes but he must needs know in himselfe whether he believes or no and wherein and how farre he doubts Then I am infallibly assured of my Creed the Tradition of the Church inducing and the Scripture confirming it And I believe both Scripture and Creed in the same uncorrupted sense which the Primitive Church believed them and am sure that I do so Believe them because I crosse not in my Beliefe any thing delivered by the Primitive Church And this againe I am sure of
because I take the Beliefe of the Primitive Church as it is expressed and delivered by the Councels and Ancient Fathers of those times As for the Foure Councels if A. C. aske how I have them that is their true and entire Copies I answer I have them from the Church-Tradition onely And that 's Assurance enough for this And so I am fully as sure as A. C. is or can make mee But if hee aske how I know infallibly I believe them in their true and uncorrupted sense Then I answer There 's no man of knowledge but hee can understand the plaine and simple Decision expressed in the Canon of the Councell where 't is necessary to Salvation And for all other debates in the Councels or Decisions of it in things of lesse moment 't is not necessary that I or any man else have Infallible Assurance of them though I thinke 't is possible to attaine even in these things as much Infallible Assurance of the uncorrupted sense of them as A. C. or any other Iesuites have A C. askes againe What Text of Scripture tels That Protestants now living do believe all this or that all A. C. p. 69. this is expressed in those particular Bibles or in the Writings of the Fathers and Councels which now are in the Protestants hands Good God! Whither will not a strong Bias carrie even a learned Iudgement Why what Consequence is there in this The Scripture now is the onely Ordinary Infallible Rule of Divine Faith Therefore the Protestants cannot believe all this before mentioned unlesse a particular Text of Scripture can be shewed for it Is it not made plaine before how we believe Scripture to be Scripture and by Divine and Infallible Faith too and yet wee can shew no particular Text for it Beside were a Text of Scripture necessary yet that is for the Object and the thing which we are to believe not for the Act of our believing which is meerely from God and in our selves and for which wee cannot have any Warrant from or by Scripture more then that we ought to believe but not that we in our particular do believe The rest of the Question is farre more inconsequent Whether all this bee expressed in the Bibles which are in Protestants hands For first we have the same Bibles in our hands which the Romanists have in theirs Therefore either we are Infallibly sure of ours or they are not Infallibly sure of theirs For we have the same Booke and delivered unto us by the same hands and all is expressed in ours that is in theirs Nor is it of moment in this Argument that we account more Apocryphall then they do For I will acknowledge every Fundamentall point of Faith as proveable out of the Canon as we account it as if the Apocryphall were added unto it Secondly A. C. is here extremely out of himselfe and his way For his Question is Whether all this be expressed in the Bibles which we have All this All what why before there is mention of the foure Generall Councels and in this Question here 's mention of the Writings of the Fathers and the Councels And what will A. C. look that we must shew a Text of Scripture for all this and an expresse one too I thought and doe so still 't is enough to ground Beliefe upon * Nâ—…n potest aliquid certum esse certitudire Fidei nisi aut immediate contineatur in verbo Dei aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem Consequentiam deducatur Bellar. L. 3. de Iustif. c. 8 §. 2. Necessary Consequence out of Scripture as well as upon expresse Text. And this I am sure of that neither I nor any man else is bound to believe any thing as Necessary to Salvation be it found in Councels or Fathers or where you will †Nec ego Nicaenum nec tu debes Ariminense tanquà m praejudicaturus proferre Concilium Nec ego hujus Authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum Au thoritatibus c. Res cum re Causa cum causâ Ratio cum ratione concertet S. Aug. L. 3. cont Maximinum c. 14. Testimonia Divina in fundamento ponenda sunt S. Aug. L. 20. de Civ Dei c. 1. Quia principia hujus Doctrinae per Revelationens habentur c. Tho. p. 1. q. 1. A. 8. ad 2. Solis Scriptur arum Libris Canonicis didâ—… hunc honorem deferre ut nullum Authorem corum in scribendo errâsse aliquid firmissimè credam Alios autem ita lego ut quant alibet sanctitate doctrináque praepolleant non ideò verum putem quod ipsi it à senserunt vel scripserunt S. Aug. Epist. 19. if it be Contrary to expresse Scripture or necessary Consequence from it And for the Copies of the Councels and Fathers which are in our hands they are the same that are in the hands of the Romanists and delivered to Posterity by Tradition of the Church which is abundantly sufficient to warrant that So we are as Infallibly sure of this as 't is possible for any of you to bee Nay are wee not more sure For wee have used no Index Expurgatorius upon the Writings of the Fathers * Sixtus Senens in Epist. ad Pium quintum as you have done So that Posterity hereafter must thanke us for true Copies both of Councels and Fathers and not you But A. C goes on and askes still Whether Protestants bee Infallibly sure that they rightly understand the A. C. p. 69. sense of all which is expressed in their Books according to that which was understood by the Primitive Church and the Fathers which were present at the foure first Generall Councels A. C. may aske everlastingly if hee will aske the same over and over againe For I pray wherein doth this differ from his †§. 38. N. 5. first Question save only that here Scripture is not named For there the Question was of our Assurance of the Incorrupted sense And therefore thither I refer you for Answer with this That it is not required either of us or of them that there should be had an Infallible assurance that wee rightly understand the sense of all that is expressed in our Bookes And I thinke I may believe without sinne that there are many things expressed in these Bookes for they are theirs as well as ours which A. C. and his Fellowes have not Infallible assurance that they rightly understand in the sense of the Primitive Church or the Fathers present in those Councels And if they say yes they can because when a difficulty crosses them they believe them in the Churches sense Yet that dry shift will not serve For beliefe of them in the Churches sense is an Implicit Faith but it works nothing distinctly upon the understanding For by an Implicite Faith no man can be infallibly assured that hee doth rightly understand the sense which is A. C s. Question whatever perhaps he may rightly believe And an Implicite
Faith and an Infallible understanding of the same thing under the same Considerations cannot possibly stand together in the same man at the same time A. C. hath not done asking yet But he would farther know Whether Protestants can be Infallibly sure that all and onely those points which Protestants account A. C. p. 69. Fundamentall and necessary to be expressely knowne by all were so accounted by the Primitive Church Truly Vnity in the Faith is very Considerable in the Church And in this the Protestants agree and as Vnisormely as you and have as Infallible Assurance as you can have of all points which they account Fundamentall yea and of all which were so accounted by the Primitive Church And these are but the Creed and some few and those Immediate deductions from it And †Tert. praescript adversus Haeres c. 13. c Tertullian and * Ruffin in Symb. Ruffinus upon the very Clause of the Catholike Church to decypher it make a recitall only of the Fundamentall Points of Faith And for the first of these the Creed you see what the sense of the Primitive Church was by that famous and knowne place of a Et neque qui valde potens est in dicendo ex Ecclesiae Praefectis alia ab his dicet c. Neque debilis in dicendo hanc Traditionem imminuet Quùm euim una cadem fides sit ueque is qui multum de eâ dicere potest plusquam oportet dicit neque qui parum ipsam imminuit Irenae L. 1. Adv. Haer. c. 2. 3. Et S. Basil. Serm. de Fide To. 2. p. 195. Edit Bafil 1505. Vna Immobilis Regula c. Tert. de veland Virg. c. 1. Irenaeus where after hee had recited the Creed as the Epitome or Briefe of the Faith he addes That none of the Governors of the Church be they never so potent to Expresse themselves can say alia ab his other things from these Nor none so weake in Expression as to diminish this Tradition For since the Faith is One and the same He that can say much of it sayes no more then he ought Nor doth he diminish it that can say but little And in this the Protestants all agree And for the second the immediate Deductions they are not formally Fundamentall for all men but for such b Quantum ad prima Credibilia quae sunt Articuli Fidei tenetur homo Explicitè credere sicut tenetur habere fidem Quantum autem ad alia Credibilia c. non tenetur Explicitè credere nisi quando hoc ci constiterit in Doctrinâ Fidei contineri Tho. 2. 2 q. 2. A. 5. c. Potest quis Errare Credendo oppositum Alicui Articulo subtill ad cujas sidem explicitam non â—…mnis teuentur Holkot in 1. sent q. 1. ad quartum as are able to make or understand them And for others t is enough if they doe not obstinatâ—…ly or Schismatically refuse them after they are once revealed Indeed you account many things Fundamentall which were never so accounted in any sense by the Primitive Church such as are all the Decrees of Generall Councels which may be all true but can never be all Fundamentall in the Faith For it is not in the power of * Resolutio Ocbam est Quod nec tota Ecclesiae nec Concilium Generale nâ—… suminus Pontifex potest facere Artiâ—…ulum quod non suit Articulus Articulus cuim est ex co solo qui à Deo Revelatuâ—… est Almain in 3. sent D. 15. q. unica Coâ—…clus 4. Dub 3. the whole Church much lesse of a Generall Councell to make any thing Fundamentall in the Faith that is not contained in the Letter or sense of that common Faith which was once given and but once for all to the Saints S. Lude 3. But if it be A. C's meaning to call S. Iude vers 3. for an Infallible Assurance of all such Points of Faith as are Decreed by Generall Councels Then I must bee bold to tell him All those Decrees are not necessary to all mens salvation Neither doe the Romanists themselves agree in all such determined Points of Faith Be they determined by Councels or by Popes For Instance After those Bookes which wee account Apochryphall were †Concil Trid Sess 4. defined to bee Canonicall and an Anathema pronounced in the Case a Six Senens Biblioth Sanct. L. 1. Sixtus Senensis makes scruple of some of them And after b Non est necessariò credendum Detâ—…minatis per Sum Pontificem c. Aimain in 3. sent D. 24. q. unica Conclus 6. Dubio 6. fine Pope Leo the tenth had defined the Pope to be aboue a Generall Councell yet many Romane Catholikes defend the Contrary And so doe all the Sorbonists at this very day Therefore if these be Fundamentall in the Faith the Romanists differ one from another in the Faith nay in the Fundamentals of the Faith And therefore cannot have Infallible Assurance of them Nor is there that Unity in the Faith amongst them which they so much and so often boast of For what Scripture is Canonicall is a great point of Faith And I believe they will not now Confesse That the Popes power over a Generall Councell is a small one And so let A. C. looke to his owne Infallible Assurance of Fundamentals in the Faith for ours God be thanked is well And since he is pleased to call for a particular Text of Scripture to proove all and every thing of this nature which is ridiculous in it selfe and unreasonable to demand as hath beene * §. 38. N. 6. shewed yet when he shall bee pleased to bring forth but a particular knowne Tradition to proove all and every thing of this on their side it will then be perhaps time for him to call for and for us to give farther Answer about particular Texts of Scripture After all this Questioning A. C. inferres That I had need seeke out some other Infallible Rule and meanes by A. C. p. 69. which I may know these things infalliâ—…ly or else that I have no reason to be so confident as to adventure my soule that one may be saved living and dying in the Protestant faith How weake this Inference is will easily appeare by that which I have already said to the premises And yet I have somewhat left to say to this Inference also And first I have lived and shall God willing dye in the Faith of Christ as it was professed in the Ancient Primitive Church and as it is professed in the present Church of England And for the Rule which governes me herein if I cannot bee confident for my soule upon the Scripture and the Primitive Church expounding and declaring it I will be confident upon no other And secondly I have all the reason in the world to be confident upon this Rule for this can never deceive me Another that very other which A. C. proposes
〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is reproach or infamie So that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies the holding of the entire Faith in such holinesse of life and conversation as is without all infamy and reproach That is as our English renders that Creed exceeding well Which Faith unlesse a man do keep whole and * Sic Ecclesia dicitur 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eph. 5. 27. in veteri Glossario Immaculatus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 undefiled even with such a life as Momus himselfe shall not be able to carpe at So Athanasius who certainly was passing able to expresse himselfe in his owne language in the beginning of that his Creed requires That we keepe it entire without diminution and undefiled without blame And at the end that we believe it faithfully without wavering But Inviolate is the mistaken word of the old Interpreter and with no great knowledge made use of by A. C. And then fourthly though this be true Divinity that he which hopes for salvation must believe the whole Creed and in the right sense too if he be able to comprehend it yet I take the true and first meaning of Inviolate could Athanasius his word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 have signified so not to be the holding of the true sense but not to offer violence or a forced sense or meaning upon the Creed which every man doth not that yet believes it not in a true sense For not to believe the true sense of the Creed is one thing But 't is quite another to force a wrong sense upon it Fiftly a reason would be given also why A. C. is so earnest for the whole faith and bawkes the word which goes with it which is holy or undefiled For Athanasius doth alike exclude from salvation those which keepe not the Catholike Faith holy as well as these which keepe it not whole I doubt this was to spare many of his †§. 33. Nu. 6. holy Fathers the Popes who were as farre as any the very lewdest among men without exception from keeping the Catholike Faith holy Sixtly I agree to the next part of his Exposition That a man that will be saved must believe the whole Creed for the true formall reason of divine Revelation For upon the Truth of God thus revealed by himselfe lies the Infallible certainty of the Christian Faith But I do not grant that this is within the Compasse of S. Athanasius his word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor of the word Inviolate But in that respect 't is a meere straine of A. C. And then lastâ—…y though the whole Catholike Church be sufficient in applying this to us and our Beliefe not our Understanding which A. C. is at A. C. p. 70. againe yet Infallible She is not in the proposall of this Revelation to us by every of her Pastours Some whereof amongst you as well as others neglect or forget at least to feed Christ's sheepe as Christ and his Church hath fed them But now that A. C. hath taught us as you see the meaning of S. Athanasius in the next place he tels us A. C. p. 70. That if we did believe any one Article we finding the same formall Reason in all and applied sufficiently by the same meanes to all wou'd easily believe all Why surely we do not believe any one Article onely but all the Articles of the Christian Faith And we believe them for the same formall Reason in all namely Because they are revealed from and by God and sufficiently applied in his Word and by his Churches Ministration But so long as they do not believe all in this sort saith A. C. Looke you He A. C. p. 70. tels us we do not believe all when we professe we do Is this man become as God that he can better tell what we believe them we our selves Surely we do believe all and in that sort too Though I believe were S. Athanasius himselfe alive againe and a plaine man should come to him and tell him he believed his Creed in all and every particular he would admit him for a good Catholike Christian though he were not able to expresse to him the formall reason of that his beliefe Yea but saith A. C. while they will as all Heretickes doe make choice of what they will and what they A. C. p. 70. will not believe without relying upon the Infallible Authority of the Catholike Church they cannot have that one saving Faith in any one Article Why but whatsoever Hereticks doe we are not such nor do we so For they which believe all the Articles as once againe I tell you we do make no choice And we do relie upon the Infallible Authority of the Word of God and the whole Catholike Church And therefore we both can have and have that one saving Faith which believes all the Articles entirely though we cannot believe that any particular Church is infallible And yet againe A. C. will not thus be satisfied but on he goes and adds That although we believe the same A. C. p. 71. truth which other good Catholikes doe in some Articles yet not believing them for the same formall reason of Divine Revelation sufficiently applied by Infallible Church Authority c. we cannot be said to have one and the same Infallible and Divine Faith which other good Catholike Christians have who believe the Articles for this formall Reason sufficiently made knowne to them not by their owne fancy nor the fallible Authority of humane deductions but by the Infallible Authority of the Church of God If A. C. will still say the samething I must still give the same answer First he confesses we believe the same Truth in some Articles I pray marke his phrase the same Truth in some Articles with other good Catholike Christians so farre his pen hath told Truth against his will for he doth not I wot well intend to call us Catholikes and yet his pen being truer then himselfe hath let it fall For the word other cannot be so used as here it is but that we as well as they must be good Catholikes For he that shall say the old Romans were valiant as well as other men supposes the Romans to be valiant men And he that shall say The Protestants believe some Articles as well as other good Catholikes must in propriety of speech suppose them to be good Catholikes Secondly as we do believe those some Articles so do we believe them and all other Articles of Faith for the same formall reason and so applied as but just * §. 38. Nu. 13. before I have expressed Nor do we believe any one Article of Faith by our own fancy or by fallible Authority of humane deductions but next to the Infallible Authority of God's Word we are guided by his Church But then A. C. steps into a Conclusion whither we cannot A. C. p. 71. follow him For he sayes that the Articles to be believed must be sufficiently made
known unto us by the Infallible Authority of the Church of God that is of men Infallibly assisted by the Spirit of God as all lawfully called continued and confirmed Generall Councels are assisted That the whole Church §. 21. Nu. 5. of God is infallibly assisted by the Spirit of God so that it cannot by any error fall away totally from Christ the Foundation I make no doubt For if it could the gates of hell had prevailed against it which our Saviour assures me S. Matth. 16. they shall never be able to doe Matth. 16. 18. But that all Generall Councels be they never so lawfully called continued and confirmed have Infallible Assistance I utterly deny 'T is true that a Generall Councell de post facto after 't is ended and admitted by the whole Church is then Infallible for it cannot erre in that which it hath already clearely and truly determined without Errour But that a Generall Councell à parte ante when it first sits down and continues to deliberate may truly be said to be Infallible in all its after-determinations whatsoever they shall be I utterly deny And it may be it was not without cunning that A. C. shuffled these words together Called Continued and Confirmed for be it never so lawfully called and continued it may erre But after 't is confirmed that is admitted by the whole Church then being found true it is also Infallible that is it deceives no man For so all Truth is and is to us when 't is once knowne to be Truth But then many times that Truth which being known is necessary and Infallible was before both contingent and fallible in the way of proving it and to us And so here a Generall Councell is a most probable but yet a fallible way of inducing Truth though the Truth once induced may be after 't is found necessary and Infallible And so likewise the very Councell it selfe for that particular in which it hath concluded Truth But A. C. must both speake and meane of a Councell set downe to deliberate or els he sayes nothing Now hence A. C. gathers That though everything defined to be a Divine Truth in Generall Councels is not absolutely A. C. p. 71. necessary to be expresly knowne and actually believed as some other Truths are by all sorts yet no man may after knowledge that they are thus defined doubt deliberately much lesse obstinately deny the Truth of any thing so defined Well in this Collection of A. C. First we have this granted That every thing defined in Generall Councels is not absolutely necessary to be expresly knowne and actually believed by all sorts of men And this no Protestant that I know denies Secondly it is affirmed that after knowledge that these Truths are thus defined no man may doubt deliberately much lesse obstinately deny any of them Truly Obstinately as the word is now in common use carries a fault along with it And it ought to be farre from the temper of a Christian to be obstinate against the Definitions of a Generall Councell But that he may not upon very probable grounds in an humble and peaceable manner deliberately doubt yea and upon Demonstrative grounds constantly deny even such Definitions yet submitting himselfe and his grounds to the Church in that or another Councell is that which was never till now imposed upon Believers For 't is one thing for a man deliberately to doubt and modestly to propose his Doubt for satisfaction which was ever lawfull and is many times necessary And quite an other thing for a man upon the pride of his owne Iudgement * S. 32. N. 5. to refuse externall Obedience to the Councell which to doe was never Lawfull nor can ever stand with any Government For there is all the reason in the world the Councell should be heard for it selfe as well as any such Recusant whatsoever and that before a Iudge as good as it selfe at least And to what end did †S. Aug. L. 2. de Bapt. cont Donat c. 3. Ipsaque plenaria sape priora à posterioribus emendari S. Augustine say That one Generall Councell might be amended by another the former by the Later if men might neither denie nor so much as deliberately doubt of any of these Truths defined in a Generall Councell And A. C. should have done well to have named but one ancient Father of the Primitive Church that ever affirmed this * S. 21. N. 5. For the Assistance which God gives to the whole Church in generall is but in things simply necessary to eternall Salvation therefore more then this cannot be given to a Generall Councell no nor so much But then if a Generall Councell shall forget it selfe and take upon it to define things not absolutely necessary to bee expresly knowne or actually believed which are the things which A. C. here speakes of In these as neither Generall Councell nor the whole Church have infallible Assistance so have Christians liberty modestly and peaceably and upon just grounds both deliberarely to doubt and constantly to deny such the Councels Definitions For instance the Councell of Florence first defined Purgatory to be believed as a Divine Truth and matter of Faith a I know the Greekes subscribed that Councell Sed in illo Concilio Graeca Ecclesiae diu restitit Pet. Mart. Loc. com classe tertiâ c. 9. nu 13. Et in ultimâ Sessione istius Concilii Graeci dixerunt se sine Authoritate totius Ecclesiae Orientalis Quaestionem aliam tractare non posse praeter illam de processione Sp. Sancti Postea verò consentiente Imperatore tractârunt de aliis c. Florent Concil Sess. ult apud Nicolinum To. 4. p. 894. c. This savours of some art to bring in the Greeks Howsoever this showes enough against Bellarmine That all the Greekes did not constantly teach Purgatory as he assirms L. 1. de Purgat c. 11. §. De tertio modo if that Councell had Consent enough so to define it This was afterwards deliberately doubted of by the Protestants after this as constantly denied then confirmed by the b Con. Trid. Sess. 25. in Bullâ Pii 4. super formà Iuramenti professionis Fidei Councell of Trent and an Anathema set upon the head of every man that denies it And yet scarce any Father within the first three hundred yeares ever thought of it I know a Omnes veteres Graeci Latini ab ipso tempore ApostoleruÌ„ constanter docuerunt Purgatorium esse Bel. L. 1. de Purg. c 11 §. De tertio modo Bâ—…llarmine affirmes it boldly That all the Fathers both Greeke and Latine did constantly teach Purgatory from the very Apostles times And where he brings his Proofs out of the Fathers for this Point he divides them into two Rancks b Bel. Lib 1 de Purg c 6 §. 1. In the first he reckons them which affirme Prayer for the dead as if that must necessarily inferre Purgatory Whereas
comes this short of Bâ—…asphemy to make the Trinity and Pâ—…y things alike and equally Credible Yea but A. C. will give you a Reason why no man may 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 much lesse deny any thing that A C. â—…7 is defiâ—…ed by a Generall Councell And his Reason is Because every such doubt and denyall is a breach from the one saving faith This is a very good reason if it bee true But how appeares it to be true How why it takes away saith A. C. Infallible credit from the Church and so the Divine Revelation being not sufficiently applyed it cannot according A. C. p. 71. to the ordinary course of Gods providence breed Infallible Beliefe in us VVhy but deliberately to douâ—…t and constantly to deny upon the grounds and in the manner * §. 38. N. 15. aforesaid doth not take away Infallible credit from the whole Church but onely from the Definition of a Generall Councell some way or other missed And that in things not absolutely Necessary to all mens salvation For of such things †Though every Thing Defined to bee a Divine Truth in Generall Councels is not absolutely necessary to bee expresly known and actually believed by all sorts c. A. C. p. 71. A. C. here speakes expresly Now to take away Infallible credit from some Definitions of Generall Councels in things not absolutely necessary to salvation is no breach upon the one saving faith which is necessary nor upon the Credit of the Catholike Church of Christ in things absolutely necessary for which onely it had Infallible Assistance promised So that no breach being made upon the faith nor no credit which ever it had being taken from the Church the Divine Revelation may bee and is as sufficiently applyed as ever it was and in the ordinary course of Gods providence may breed as Infallible beliefe in things necessary to salvation as ever it did But A. C. will proove his Reason before given and therefore hee askes us out of Saint Paul A. C. p. 71. Rom. 10. How shall men believe unlesse they heare How shall they heare without a Preacher And how shall they Rom. 10. 14. 15. preach to wit Infallibly unlesse they bee sent that is from God and infallibly assisted by his Spirit Here 's that which I have twise at least spoken to already namely That A. C. by this will make every Priest in the Church of Rome that hath Learning enough to preach and dissents not from that Church an Infallible Preacher which no Father of the Primitive Church did ever assume to himselfe nor the Church give him And yet the Fathers of the Primitive Church were sent and from God were assisted and by God and did sufficiently propose to men the Divine Revelation and did by it beget and breed up Faith saving Faith in the Soules of men Though * Aliâ—…s ab 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Se ripâ—… 〈◊〉 legâ—… 〈◊〉 saâ—…ctitate 〈◊〉 prapoâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ver 〈◊〉 pâ—…teÌ„ 〈◊〉 ipsi ita 〈◊〉 vel scripsâ—… Tho. 〈◊〉 q 1. A. 8. ad 2. Ex S. Aug. Ep. 19. Miâ—…i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Demonstr 〈◊〉 accipias ex saâ—…ris Liâ—…eris S. Cyril 〈◊〉 Caâ—… 4. no one among them since the Apostles was an Infallible Preacher And A. C. should have done very well here to have made it manifest That this Scripture How shall they preach to wit Infallibly is so interpreted by Union Consent of Fathers and Definitions of Councels as hee a A. C. p. 70. bragged before that they use to interpret Scripture For I doe not finde How shall they Preach to wit †〈◊〉 Apostoli 〈◊〉 possunt intelligi ae Fide infusa illa 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Deocreata est non est ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 haec apertissimè colligitur ex Bâ—… 3. sent D. 23 q. 2. A. 2. Conclus 1. Ergo Fides acquisiea necessaria est â—…d sed prater Acquisitam Infusa etiam requiritur non solum propter Intentionem Act us sedetiam propter Assensum Certâ—…nern Quia non potest esse firmus Assensus à Fide acquisita Quia per cam nullus credit alicui nisi 〈◊〉 scit posse fâ—…lli fallers licet credâ—… cum non Uelle fallere Scotus in 3. sent D. 23. q. unica Therefore in the judgement of your owne Schoole your Preachers can both deceive and be deceived And therefore certainly are not Infallible And M. Canus very expresly makes this but an Introduction to Infallible faith Primum ergo id statno juxta Commâ—…em Legem aliqua exterior a humâ—…a inciâ—…â—…ta 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esse 〈◊〉 ad Evangelii fidem 〈◊〉 Quomodo enim crâ—…nt ei quem non audierâ—…t c. Canus L. 2. de Lâ—…is c. 8. §. Primum ergo Et iterum St Fides infusa ita Fidei acquisitae niteretur tanquam suo fundamento ipsum Fundamentum Fiaâ—… nostra non esset Divina sed Humana Veritas Ibid § Cut tertium Therefore surely A. C. abâ—…ses this place of the Apostle very boldly Infallibly to bee the Comment of any one of the Fathers or any other approved Author And let him shew it if he can After this for I see the good man is troubled and forward and backward he goes he fals immediately A. C. p. 7â—… upon this Question If a whole generall Councell defining what is Divine Truth be not believed to be sent and assisted by Gods Spirit and consequently of Infallible Credit what man in the World can bee said to bee of Infallible Credit Well first A. C. hath very ill lucke in fitting his Conclusion to his Premises and his Consequent to his Antecedent And so 't is here with him For a Generall Councell may be assisted by God's Spirit and in a great measure too and in a greater then any private man not inspired and yet not consequently be of Inâ—… Credit for all assistance of God's Spirit reaches not up to Infallibility I hope the Ancient Bishops and Fathers of the Primitive Church were assisted by God's Spirit and in a plentifull measure too and yet A. C. himselfe will not say they were Infallible And secondly for the Question itselfe If a Generall Councell be not what man in the world can be said to be of Infallible Credit Truly I 'le make you a ready Answer No man Not the Pope himselfe No Let God and his word be true and every man a lyer Rom. 3. for so more or lesse every man will Rom. 3. 4. be found to be And this is neither dammage to the Church nor wrong to the person of any But then A. C. asks a shrewder Question then this If such a Councell lawfully called continued and confirmed A. C. p. 71. may erre in defining any one Divine Truth how can we be Infallibly certaine of any other Truth defined by it For if §. 10. N. 15. it may erre in one why not in another and another and so in all 'T is most true if such a Councell may erre in one it may
explicandi Emanationem Sp. S. quà m in ipsá re c. Iodocus Clictoveus in Damase L 1. Fid Orth. c. 11. Et quidam ex Graecis concedunt quòd sit á Filio vel ab eo prostuat Thom. p. 1. q. 36. A. 2. C. Et Thomas ipse dicit Sp. S. procedere mediatè à Filio ib. A. 3. ad 1. salâ—…em ratione Personarum Spirantium Respondeo cum Bessarione Gennadio Damascenum non negâsse Sp. S. procedere ex Filio quod ad rem attinet quùm dixerit Spiritum esse Imaginem Filii per Filium sed existimásse tutiùs dici per Filium quà m ex Filio quantum ad modum loquendi c. Bellarm. L. 2. de Christo c. 27. §. Respondeo igitur Et Tollet in S. Iohn 15. Ar. 25. Lutheran Resp. ad Resp. 2. Ieremiae Patriarchae The Master and his Schollers agree upon it The Greeks saith he confesse the Holy Ghost to bee the Spirit of the Son with the Apostle Galath 4. and the Spirit of truth S. Iohn 16. And since Non est aliud it is not another thing to say The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Father and the Sonne then that He is or proceeds from the Father and the Sonne in this They seeme to agree with us in candem Fidei sententiam upon the same Sentence of Faith though they differ in words Now in this cause where the words differ but the Sentence of Faith is the same d Eadem penitùs Sententia ubi suprà Clictov penitùs eadem even altogether the same Can the Point be fundamentall You may make them no Church as e Bellarm. 4. de Notis Eccl. cap. 8. §. Quod autem apud Graecos Bellarmine doth and so deny them salvation which cannot be had out of the true Church but I for my part dare not so do And Rome in this Particular should be more moderate if it be but because this Article Filióque was added to the Creed by her selfe And 't is hard to adde and Anathematize too It ought to be no easie thing to condemne a man of Heresie in foundation of faith much lesse a Church least of all so ample and large a Churchas the Greeke especially so as to make them no Church Heaven Gates were not so easily shut against multitudes when S. Peter wore the Keyes at his owne girdle And it is good counsell which a Lib. 3. cont Hares fol. 93. A. 〈◊〉 vidcant ht qui famile de haerest pronumiant quaÌ„ facile etiam ipsi errent Et intelligant non esse tam leviter de Haeresi censenduÌ„ c. In verbo Beatitudo Alphonsus à castro one of your owne gives Let them consider that pronounce easily of Heresie how easie it is for themselves to erre Or if you will pronounce consider what it is that separates from the Church simply and not in part only I must needs professe that I wish heartily as well as b Iunius Animad in Bellar. cont 2. L. 3. c. 23. others that those distressed men whose Crosse is heavie already had beene more plainly and moderately dealt withall though they thinke a diverse thing from us then they have beene by the Church of Rome But hereupon you say you were forc'd F. Whereupon I was forced to repeate what I had formerly brought against D. White concerning Points Fundamentall B. Hereupon it is true that you read a large § 10 Discourse out of a Booke printed which you said was yours The Particulars all of them at the least I do not now remember nor did I then approve But if they be such as were formerly brought against Doctor White they are by him formerly answered The first thing you did was the * P. First righting the Sentence of S. Austine Ferendus est Disputator errans c. Here A. C. p. 44. tells us very learnedly that my corrupt Copy hath righting instead of reading the Sentence of S. Austine Whereas I here use the word righting not as it is opposed to reading as any man may discerne A. C. palpably mistakes but for doing right to S. Austine And if I had meant it for writing I should not have spelled it so righting of S. Augustine which Sentence I doe not at all remember was so much as named in the Conference much lesse was it stood upon and then righted by you Another place of S. Augustine indeed was which you omit But it comes after about Tradition to which I remit it But now you tell us of a great Proofe made out of this †By which is proved That all poynts Defined by the Church are Fundamentall Place For these words of yours containe two Propositions One That all Poynts defined by the Church are Fundamentall The other That this is proved out of this Place of S. Augustine 1. For the first That all Poynts defined by the Church are fundamentall It was not the least meanes by which Rome grew to her Greatnesse to blast every Opposer she had with the name of Hereticke or Schismaticke for this served to shrivel the credit of the Persons And the Persons once brought into contempt and ignominie all the good they desired in the Church fell to dust for want of creditable Persons to backe and support it To make this Proceeding good in these later yeares this Course it seemes was taken The Schoole that must maintaine and so they doe That all Points Defined by the Church are thereby a Your owne word Fundamentall b Inconcussâ fide ab omnibus Thom. 2. 2ae q. 1. Art 10. C. necessary to be believed c Sco us 1. Sent. d. 11. q. 1. of the substance of the Faith and that though it be determined quite d Ecclesiae Voces etiam extra Scripturam Stap. Relect. Con. 4. q. 1. Ar. 3. Quae maturo judicio definivit c. Solidum est etiamsi nullo Scripturarum aut evidenti aut probabili testimonio confirmaretur bid Extra Scripturam And then e Et penes Cercopes Victoria sit Greg. Naz. de Differen vitae Cercopes 1. Astutos veteratoriae improbitat is Episcopos qui artibus suis ac dolis omnia Concilia perturbabant Schol. ib. leave the wise and active Heads to take order that there be strength enough ready to determine what is fittest for them But since these men distinguish not nor you betweene the Church in generall and a Generall Councell which is but her Representation for Determinations of the Faith though I be very slow in sifting or opposing what is concluded by Lawfull Generall and consenting Authority though I give as much as can justly be given to the Definitions of Councels truly Generall nay suppose I should grant which I doe not That Generall Councells cannot erre yet this cannot downe with me That all Poynts even so defined are Fundamentall For Deductions are not prime and native Principles nor are Superstructures Foundations That which is a
things which are but Accessory c. Hooker L. 3. Eccl. Pol. §. 3. Fundamentall in the Faith to all men And secondly the whole Discourse here is concerning Faith as it is taken Objectivè for the Object of Faith and thing to be Beleeved but that Faith by which Christ is said to dwell in our hearts is taken Subjectivè for the Habit and Act of Faith Now to confound both these in one period of speech can have no other ayme than to confound the Reader But to come closer both to the Iesuite and his Defender A. C. If all Poynts made firme by full Authority of the Church be Fundamentall then they must grant that every thing determined by the Councell of Trent is Fundamentall in the Faith For with them 't is firme and Catholike which that Councell Decrees Now that Councell decrees b Si quis dixerit Ordines ab Episcopis collatos sine populi vel potestatis saecularis consensu aut vocatione irritos esse Anathema sit Con. Trid. Sess. 23. Can. 7. That Orders collated by the Bishop are not void though they be given without the Consent or calling of the People or of any secular Power And yet they can produce no Authour that ever acknowledged this Definition of the Councell Fundamentall in the Faith 'T is true I do not grant that the Decrees of this Councell are made by full Authority of the Church but they do both grant and maintaine it And therefore 't is Argumentum ad hominem a good Argument against them that a thing so defined may be sirme for so this is and yet not Fundamentall for so this is not But A. C. tels us further That if one may deny or doubtfully dispute against any one Determination of the A. C. p. 45. Church then he may against another and another and so against all since all are made firme to us by one and the same Divine Revelation sufficiently applied by one and the same full Authority of the Church which being weakened in any one cannot be firme in any other First A. C. might have acknowledged that he borrowed the former part of this out of a Cont. Haer. c. 31. Abdicatà enim qualibet parte Catholici Dogmatis alia quoque at que item alia c. Quid aliud ad extremum sequetur nisi ut totum pariter repudictur Vin. Lir. And as that Learned Father uses it I subscribe to it but not as A. C. applies it For Vincentius speaks there de Catholico Dogmate of Catholike Maximes and A. C. will force it to every Determination of the Church Now Catholike Maximes §. 30. N. 21. which are properly Fundamentall are certaine Prime Truths deposited with the Church and not so much determined by the Church as published and manifested and so made firme by her to us For so b Ecclesia Deâ—…sitorum apud se Dogmatum Custos c. Denique quid unquam Conciliorum Decretis enisa est nisi ut quod antea simpliciter credebatur hoc idem postea diligentiùs crederetur c. Vin. Lir. cont Harcs c. 32. Vincentius expresly Where all that the Church doth is but ut hoc idem quod anteà that the same thing may be believed which was before Believed but with more light and cleerenesse and in that sense with more firmenesse than before Now in this sense give way to a Disputator errans every cavilling Disputer to deny or quarrell at the Maximes of Christian Religion any one or any part of any one of them and why may he not then take liberty to do the like of any other till he have shaken all But this hinders not the Church her selfe nor any appointed by the Church to examine her owne Decrees and to see that she keepe Dogmata deposita the Principles of Faith unblemished and uncorrupted For if she do not so but that c Vin. Lir. cont haer c. 31. Impiorum turpium Errorum Lupanar ubi erat antè castae incorruptâ—… Sacrarium Veritatis Novitia veteribus new Doctrines bee added to the old the Church which is Sacrarium Veritatis the Repository of Verity may be changed in lupanar errorum I am loth to English it By the Church then this may nay it ought to be done however every wrangling Disputer may neither deny nor doubtfully dispute much lesse obstinately oppose the Determinations of the Church no not where they are not Dogmata Deposita these deposited Principles But if he will be so bold to deny or dispute the Determinations of the Church yet that may be done without shaking the Foundation where the Determinations themselves belong but to the Fabricke and not to the Foundation For a whole Frame of Building may be shaken and yet the Foundation where it is well lay'd remaine firme And therefore after all A. C. dares not say the Foundation is shaken but onely in a sort And then 't is as true that in a sort A. C. p. 46. it is not shaken 2. For the second part of his Argument A. C. must pardon me if I dissent from him For first all Determinations of the Church are not made firme to us by one and the same Divine Revelation For some Determinations of the Church are made firme to us per a Vin. Lir. cont Haer. c. 32. chirographum Scripturae by the Hand-writing of the Scripture and that 's Authenticall indeed Some other Decisions yea and of the Church too are made or may be if b Relect. cont 4. q. 1. Art 3. Etiamsi nullo Scripturarum aut evidenti aut probabili Testimonio c. Stapleton informe us right without an evident nay without so much as a probable Testimony of Holy-Writ But c Non potest aliquid certum esse certitudine fidei nisi aut immediatè contineatur in Uerbo Dei aut ex Uerbo Dei per evidentem consequentiam deducatur Bellar. L. 3. de Justifica c. 8. §. 2. Bellarmine fals quite off in this and confesses in expresse termes That nothing can be certaine by Certainty of Faith unlesse it be contained immediately in the Word of God Or be deduced out of the Word of God by evident Consequence And if nothing can be so certaine then certainly no Determination of the Church it selfe if that Determination be not grounded upon one of these either expresse Word of God or evident Consequence out of it So here 's little Agreement in this great Point betweene Stapleton and Bellarmine Nor can this be shifted off as if Stapleton spake of the Word of God written and Bellarmine of the Word of God unwritten as he cals Tradition For Bellarmine treats there of the knowledge which a man hath of the Certainty of his owne Salvation And I hope A. C. will not tell us There 's any Tradition extant unwritten by which particular men may have assurance of their severall Salvations Therefore Bellarmine's whole Disputation there is quite beside the matter Or els he must
others And Miracles are not sufficient alone to prove it unlesse both They and the Revelation too agree with the Rule of Scripture which is now an unalterable Rule by b Gal. 1. 8. man or Angell To all this A. C. sayes nothing save that I seeme not to admit of an infallible Impulsion of a private Spirit ex parte subjecti A. C. p. 52. without any infallible Reason and that sufficiently applied ex parte objecti which if I did admit would open a gap to all Enthusiasmes and dreames of fanaticall men Now for this yet I thank him For I do not onely seeme not to admit but I doe most clearely reject this phrensie in the words going before 4. The last way which gives c Utitur tamâ—… sacra Doctrina Ratione Humanâ non quidem ad probandum Fidem ipsam sed ad manifest andum aliqua alia quae traduntur in hac Doctrina Tho. p. 1. q. 1. A. 8. ad 2. Passibus rationis novus homo tendit in Deum S. Aug. de vera Relig. c. 26. Passibus veruÌ„ est sed nec aequis nec solis Nam Invisibilia Dei altiori modo quantum ad plura pâ—…rcipitg Fides quà m Ratio naturalis ex Creaturis in Deum procedens Tho. 2. 2. q. 2. A. 3. ad 3. Reason leave to come in and prove what it can may not justly be denied by any reasonable man For though Reason without Grace cannot see the way to Heaven nor believe this Booke in which God hath written the way yet Grace is never placed but in a reasonable creature and proves by the very seat which it hath taken up that the end it hath is to be spirituall eye-water to make Reason see what by †Animalis homo non percipit 1. Cor. 2. 14. Nature onely it cannot but never to blemish Reason in that which it can comprehend Now the use of Reason is very generall and man do what he can is still apt to search and seeke for a Reason why he will believe though after he once believes his Faith growes d Quia scientiae certitudinem habent ox naturali lumine Rationis humanae quae potest errare Theologia autem quae docet Objectum Notitiam Fidei sicut Fidem ipsam certitudinem habet ex lumine Divinae scientiae quae decipi non potest Tho. p. 1. q. 1. A. 5. c. Vt ipsà fide valentiores facti quod credimus intelligere mereamur S. Aug. cont Ep. Manichaei dictam Fundamentum c. 14. Hoc autem it a intelligendum est ut scientia certior sit Certitudine Evidentiae Fides verò certior Firmitate Adhaesionis Majus lumen in Scientia majus Robur in Fide Et hoc quia in Fide ad Fidem Actus imperatus Voluntatis concurrit Credere enim est Actus Intellectus Vero assentiontis productus ex Voluntatis Imperio Biel. in 3. Sent. d. 23. q. 2. A. 1. Unde Tho. Intellectus Credentis determinatur ad Unum non per Rationem sed per Voluntatem ideo Assensus hic accipitur pro Actu Intellectus secundum quod à Voluntate determinatur ad Vnum 2. 2. q. 2. A. 1. ad 3. stronger than either his Reason or his Knowledge and great reason for this because it goes higher and so upon a safer Principle than either of the other can in this life In this Particular the Bookes called the Scripture are commonly and constantly reputed to bee the Word of God and so infallible Verity to the least point of them Doth any man doubt this The world cannot keepe him from going to weigh it at the Ballance of Reason whether it bee the Word of God or not To the same Weights hee brings the Tradition of the Church the inward motives in Scripture it selfe all Testimonies within which seeme to beare witnesse to it and in all this there is no harme the danger is when a man will use no other Scale but Reason or preferre Reason before any other Scale For the Word of God and the Booke containing it refuse not to bee weighed by a Si vobis rationi veritati consentanca videntur in pretio habete c. de mysteriis Religionis Iustin. Mart. Apol. 2. Igitur si fuit dispositio Rationis c. Tertull. L de Carne Christi c. 18. Rationabile est credere Deum esse Autorem Scripturae Henr. a Gand. Sum To. 1. Ar. 9. q. 3. Reason But the Scale is not large enough to containe nor the Weights to measure out the true vertue and full force of either Reason then can give no supernaturall ground into which a man may resolve his Faith That Scripture is the Word of God infallibly yet Reason can go so high as it can prove that Christian Religion which rests upon the Authority of this Booke stands upon surer grounds of Nature Reason common Equity and Iustice than any thing in the World which any Infidell or meere Naturalist hath done doth or can adhere unto against it in that which he makes accounts or assumes as Religion to himselfe The Ancient Fathers relied upon the Scriptures no Christians more and having to doe with Philosophers men very well seene in all the subtilties which Naturall Reason could teach or learne They were often put to it and did as often make it good That they had sufficient warrant to relie so much as They did upon Scripture In all which Disputes because they were to deale with Infidels they did labour to make good the Authority of the Booke of God by such Arguments as unbelievers themselves could not but thinke reasonable if they weighed them with indifferency For though I set the Mysteries of Faith above Reason which is their proper place yet I would have no man thinke They contradict Reason or the Principles thereof No sure For Reason by her own light can discover how firmely the Principles of Religion are true but all the Light shee hath will never bee able to finde them false Nor may any man thinke that the Principles of Religion even this That Scriptures are the Word of God are so indifferent to a Naturall eye that it may with as just cause leane to one part of the Contradiction as to the other For though this Truth That Scripture is the Word of God is not so Demonstratively evident a priori as to enforce Assent yet it is strengthen'd so abundantly with probable Arguments both from the Light of Nature it selfe and Humane Testimony that he must be very wilfull and selfe-conceited that shall dare to suspect it Nay yet farther a Hook L. 3. §. 8. Si Plato ipse viveret me interrogantem non aspernaretur c. S. Aug. de verá Relig. c. 3. Vide amus quatenus Ratio potest progredi á visibilibus ad invisibilia c. Ibid. c. 29. It is not altogether impossible to proove it even by Reason a Truth infallible or else to make them deny some
is in Scripture it selfe is not bright enough it cannot beare sufficient witnesseto itselfe The Testimonie of the Holy Ghost that is most infallible but ordinarily it is not so much as considerable in this Question which is not how or by what meanes we believe but how the Scripture may be proposed as a Credible Object fit for Beliefe And for Reason no man expects that that should proove it it doth service enough if it enable us to disproove that which misguided men conceive against it If none of these then be an Absolute and sufficient meanes to prove it either we must finde out another or see what can bâ—… more wrought out of these And to all this again A. C. sayes nothing For the Tradition of the Church then certaine it is wee must distinguish the Church before wee can judge right of the Validity of the Tradition For if the speech bee of the Prime Christian Church the Apostles Disciples and such as had immediate Revelation from Heaven no question but the Voyce and Tradition of this Church is Divine not aliquo modo in a sort but simply and the Word of God from them is of like Validity written or delivered And against this Tradition of which kinde this That the Bookes of Scripture are the Word of God is the most generall and uniforme the Church of England never excepted And when S. †L. 1. cont Epis. Fund c. 5. Ego vero non crederem Evangelio nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commoveret Authoritas Augustine said I would not believe the Gospell unlesse the Authority of the Catholike Church mooved mee which Place you urged at the Conference though you are now content to slide by it some of your owne will not endure should be understood save * Occham Dial. p. 1. L. 1. c. 4. Intelligitur solum de Ecclesiâ—… qua fuit tempore Apostolorum of the Church in the time of the Apostles only and a Biel. lect 2â—… in C. Missâ—… A tempore Christi Apostolorum c. And so doth S. August take Eccles. Contra Fund some of the Church in Generall not excluding after-ages But sure to include Christ and his Apostles And the certainety is there abundance of certainety in it selfe but how farre that is evident to us shall after appeare But this will not serve your turne The Tradition of the present Church must bee as Infallible as that of the Primitive But the contrary to this is prooved * §. 16. Nu. 6. before because this Voyce of the present Church is not simply Divine To what end then serves any Tradition of the present Church To what Why to a very good end For first it serves by a full consent to worke upon the mindes of unbelievers to move them to reade and to consider the Scripture which they heare by so many Wise Learned and Devoute men is of no meaner esteeme then the Word of God And secondly It serves among Novices Weaklings and Doubters in the Faith to instruct and confirme them till they may acquaint themselves with and understand the Scripture which the Church delivers as the Word of God And thus againe some of your owne understand the fore-cited Place of S. Augustine I would not believe the Gospell c. * Sive Infâ—…les sive in Fide Novitii Can. Loc. L. 2. c 8. Neganti aut omnino nescientâ—… Scripturam Stapl. Relect. Cent. 4. q. 1. A 3. For he speakes it either of Novices or Doubters in the Faith or else of such as were in part Infidels You at the Conference though you omit it here would needs have it that S. Augustine spake even of the †Quid si fateamur Fideles etiam Ecclesiae Authoritate commoveri ut Scripturas recipiant Non tamen inde sequitur eos hoc modo penitus 〈◊〉 aut nullâ aliâ fortioreque ratione induci Quis autem Christianus est quem Ecclesia Christi commâ—…dans Scripturam Christi non commoveat Whitaker Disp. de sacrâ Scripturá Contro 1. q 3. c. 8. vbt 〈◊〉 locum hunc S. Aug. faithfull which I cannot yet thinke For he speakes to the Manichees and they had a great part of the Infidell in them And the words immediately before these are If thou shouldest finde one Qui Evangelio nondum credit which did not yet believe the Gospell what wouldest thou doe to make him believe a Et ibid. Quibus obtemperavi dicentibus Credite Evangelio Therefore he speakes of himselfe when he did not believe Ego verò non Truly I would not c. So to these two ends it serves and there need be no Question between us But then every thing that is the first Inducer to believe is not by and by either the Principall Motive or the chiefe and last Object of Beliefe upon which a man may rest his Faith Vnlesse we shall be of b Certum est quod tenemur credere omnibus contentis in Sacro Canone quia Ecclesia credit ex caratione soluÌ„ Ergo per prius magis tenemur Credere Ecclesiae quam Evangelio Almain in 3. Dist. 24 Conclus 6. Dub. 6. And to make a shew of proof for this he falsifies S Aug. most notoâ—…ously and reads that known place not Nisi me commoveret as all read it but compelleret Patet quia dicit Augustinus Evangelio non CredereÌ„ nisi aa hoc me compelleret Ecclesiae Au. horitas Ibid. And so also Gerson 〈◊〉 In Declarat veritatum quae credendae sunt c. part 1 p. 414. §. 3. But in a most ancient Manuscript in Corp. Ch. Colledge Library in Cambridge the words are Nisi me commoveret c. Lacobus Almain's Opinion That we are per prius magis first and more bound to believe the Church then the Gospell Which your own Learned men as you may see by c Canus L. 2. de Locis c. 8. fo 34. b. §. 16. Num. 6. Mel. Canus reject as Extreame foule and so indeed it is The first knowledge then after the Quid Nominis is knowne by Grammer that helpes to open a mans understanding and prepares him to bee able to Demonstrate a Truth and make it evident is his Logicke But when he hath made a Demonstration he resolves the knowledge of his Conclusion not into his Grammaticall or Logicall Principles but into the Immediate Principles out of which it is deduced So in this Particular a man is probably led by the Authority of the present Church as by the first informing induceing perswading Meanes to believe the Scripture to be the Word of God but when he hath studied considered and compared this Word with it selfe and with other Writings with the helpe of Ordinary Grace and a minde morally induced and reasonably perswaded by the Voyce of the Church the Scripture then gives greater and higher reasons of Credibility to it selfe then Tradition alone could give And then he that Believes resolves his last and full Assent That Scripture is of
it but not Evident And therefore he is after forced to confesse That the soule somtimes assents not to the Miracles but in great timidity which cannot stand with cleere Evidence And after againe That the soule may renounce the Doctrine formerly confirmed by Miracles unlesse some inward and supernaturall Light be given c. And neither can this possibly stand with Evidence And therefore Bellarmine goes no farther then this Miracula esse sufficientia efficacia ad novam fidem persuadendam L. 4. de Notis Eccles. c. 14. §. 1. To induce and perswade but not to Convince And Thomas will not grant so much for he sayes expresly Miraculum non est sufficiens Causa inducens Fidem Quia videntium unum idem Miraculâ—… quidam credunt quidam non Tho. 2. 2. q. 6. A. 1. c. And Ambros. Catharin in Rom. 10. 15. is downe-right at Nulla fides est habenda signo Examinanda sunt c. Anastasius Nicanus Episcopus apud Baron ad An. 360. num 21 Non sunt necessaria signâ—… vera sidet c. Suarez defens Fidei Catho L. 1. c. 7. Nu. 3. Infallâ—…ble nor Inseparable Markes of Truth in Doctrine Not Infallible For they may be Marks of false Doctrine in the highest degree d Deut. 13. 1 2 3. 2. Thess. 2. 9. S. Marc. 13. 22. Deut. 13. Not proper and Inseparable For e Operatio Virtutum alteri datur 1. Cor. 12. 10. To one and another he saith not to al. Damonia fugare Mortuâ—…s suscitare c. dedit quibusdam Discipulis suis quibusdam non dedit That is to doe Miracles S. Aug. Serm. 22. de Verbis Apost 〈◊〉 5. all which wrote by Inspiration did not confirm their Doctrine by Miracles For we do not finde that David or Solomon with some other of the Prophets did any neither were any wrought by S. Iohn the Baptist †S. Ioh. 10. 41. S. Ioh. 10. So as Credible Signes they were and are still of as much forceto us as 't is possible for things on the credit of Relation to be For the Witnesses are many and such as spent their lives in making good the Truth which they saw But that the Workers of them were Divinely and Infallibilly inspired in that which they Preacht and writ was still to the †Here it may be observed how warily A. C. carries himselfe For when hee hath said That a cleare Râ—…lation was made to the Apostles which is most true And so the Apostles knew that which they taught simpliciter à priori most Demonstratively from the Prime Cause God himselfe Then hee addes p 51. I say cleare in attestante That is the Revelation of this Truth was cleare in the Apostles that witnessed it But to make it knowledge in the Auditors the same or like Revelation and as cleare must be made to them For they could have no other knowing Assurance Credible they might and had So A. C. is wary there but comes not home to the Businesse And so might have held his peace For the Question is not what cleare Evidence the Apostles had but what Evidence they had which heard them Hearers a matter of Faith and no more evident by the light of Humane Reason to men that lived in those Dayes then to us now For had that beene Demonstrated or beene cleare as Prime Principles are in its owne light both they and we had apprehended all the Mysteries of Divinity by Knowledge not by Faith But this is most apparent was not For had the Prophets or Apostles been ordered by God to make this Demonstratively or Intuitively by Discourse or vision appeare as cleare to their Auditors as to themselves it did that Whatsoever they taught was Divine and Infallible Truth all men which had the true use of Reason must have beene forced to yeeld to their Doctrine a Esay 53. 1. Esay could never have beene at Domine quis Lord who hath believed our Report Esay 53. Nor b Ier 20. 7. Ieremy at Domine factus sum Lord I am in derision daily Ier. 20. Nor could any of S. Pauls Auditors have mocked at him as some of them did * Acts 17. 32. And had Zedcchiah and the people seene it as clearely as Ieremy himselfe did that the word he spake was Gods word and Infallible Ierusalem for oughâ—… we know had not beene layd desolate by the Chaldean But because they could not see this by the way of knowledge and would not believe it by way of Faith they and that City perished together Jer. 38. 17. Act. 17. for Preaching the Resurrection if they had had as full a view as S. Paul himselfe had in the Assureance which God gave of it in and by the Resurrection of Christ. vers 31. But the way of Knowledge was not that which God thought fittest for mans Salvation For Man having sinned by Pride God thought fittest to humble him at the very root of the Tree of Knowledge and make him deny his understanding and submit to Faith or hazard his happinesse The Credible Object all the while that is the Mysteries of Religion and the Scripture which containes them is Divine and Infallible and so are the Pen-men of them by Revelation But we and all our Fore-Fathers the Hearers and Readers of them have neither * Nemo pius nisi qui Scripturae credit S. Aug. L. 26. cont Faustum c. 6. Now no Man believes the Scripture that doth not believe that it is the Word of God I say which doth not believe I doe not say which doth not know oportâ—…t quod Credatur Authoritati eorum quibus Revelatio facta est Tho p. 1. q. 1. A. 8. ad secundum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 C c. Quod vero Animam habemus unde manis stâ—…m Si enim Uisibilibus credere velâ—… de Deo de Angelis de mente de Anima dubitabis sic tibi omnia veritatis dogmata deperibunt Et certè si manifestis credere velis Invisibilibus magis quam Uisibilibus credere oportet Liâ—…et enim admirabile sit dictum verum tamâ—…n apud mentem habentes valde certum vel in confesso Ex homil 13 S Chryâ—…ost in S. Mat. To. 1. Edit Fronto Paris 1630. knowledge nor vision of the Prime Principles in or about them but * Faith only And the Revelation which was cleare to them is not so to us nor therefore the Prime Tradition it selfe delivered by them Sixthly That hence it may be gathered that Pun. 6. the Assent which we yeeld to this maine Principle of Divinity That the Scripture is the Word of God is grounded vpon no Compelling or Demonstrative Ratiocination but relyes upon the strength of Faith more then any other Principle whatsoever †And this is the Ground of that which I said before §. 15. Nu. 1. That the Scripture only and not any unwritten Tradition was the â—…oundation of our Faith Namely when the Authority of
Felicity and then leave him utterly destitute of all Instrumentall Helps to make the Attainment possible since * Deus natura nihil frustrà faciunt Arist. L. 1. de Coelo T. 32. frustra autem est quod non potest habere suum usuÌ„ Thom. ibid. God and Nature do nothing but for an end And Helpe there can bee none sufficient but by Revelation And once grant mee that Revelation is necessary and then I will appeale to Reason it selfe and that shall prove abundantly one of these two That either there was never any such Revelation of this kinde from the worlds beginning to this day And that will put the frustrà upon God in point of mans Felicitie Or that the Scriptures which wee now embrace as the Word of God is that Revelation And that 's it we Christians labour to make good against all Atheisme Prophanenesse and Infidelity Last of all To prove that the Booke of God which Pun. 8. we honour as His Word is this necessary Revelation of God and his Truth which must and is alone able to leade us in the way to our eternall Blessednesse or else the world hath none comes in a Cloud of witnesses Some for the Infidel and some for the Beleever Some for the VVeake in Faith and some for the Strong And some for all For then first comes in the Tradition of the Church the present Church so 't is no Hereticall or Schismaticall Beliefe Then the Testimony of former Ages so 't is no New Beliefe Then the consent of Times so 't is no Divided or partiall Beliefe Then the Harmony of the Prophets and them fulfilled so 't is not a * 2 Pet. 1. 16. Devised but a forespoken Beliefe Then the successe of the Doctrine contained in this Booke so 't is not a Beliefe stisted in the Cradle but it hath spread through the world in despite of what the world could doe against it And increased from weake and unlikely Beginnings to incredible Greatnesse Then the Constancy of this Truth so 't is no Moone-Beliefe For in the midst of the worlds Changes it hath preserved it's Creede entire through many generations Then that there is nothing Carnall in the Doctrine so 't is a Chast Beliefe And all along it hath gained kept and exercised more power upon the minds of men both learned and unlearned in the increase of vertue and repression of vice then any Morall Philosophie or Legall Policy that ever was Then comes the inward Light and Excellency of the Text it self and so 't is no darke or dazling Beliefe And 't is an Excellent Text For see the riches of Naturall knowledge which are stored up there as well as Supernaturall Consider how things quite above Reason consent with things Reasonable Weigh it well what Majesty lyes there hid under Humility a Quasi quidam fluvius est planus Altus in quo Agnus ambulet Elephas naâ—…et S. Greg. Prâ—…fat in Lib. Moralium c. 4. What Depth ther is with a Perspicuity unimitable What b In Lege Domini voluntas ejus Psa. 1. 2. Dulcior super mel favum Psa 18. 11. passim Delight it works in the Soule that is devoutely excercised in it how the c Multa dicuntur submissâ—…s humirepeÌ„tibus animis ut accommodatiùs per humana in Divina consurgant Multa etiam figuratè ut studiosa mens quaesitis exerceatur utiliùs uberiùs laetetur inventis S. Aug. de Mor. Ec. Cat. c. 17. Sed nihil sub spirituali sensu continetur Fidei necessarium quod Scriptura per Literalem sensum alicubi manifeste non tradat Tho. p. 1. q. 1. A. 10 ad 1. Sublimest wits finde in it enough to amaze them while the c simplest want not enough to direct them And then we shall not wonder if with the assistance of d Credimus c. sicut ob alia multa certiora Argumenta quà m est Testimonium Ecclesia tum propter hoe potissimum quòd Spiritus Sanctus nobis intùs has esse Dei voces persuadeat Whitaker Disput de Sa. Scrip. Controvers 1. q. 3. c. 8. Gods Spirit who alone workes Faith and Beliefe of the Scriptures and their Divine Authority as well as other Articles wee grow up into a most Infallible Assurance such an Assurance as hath made many lay downe their lives for this Truth such as that * Though an Angell from Heaven should Preach unto us another Gospell we would not believe Gal. 1. 8. Him or it No though wee should see as great and as many Miracles done over againe to disswade us from it as were at first to win the world to it To which firmnesse of Assent by the Operation of Gods Spirit the Will conferres as much or more strength then the Vnderstanding Clearenesse the whole Assent being an Act of Faith and not of Knowledge And therefore the Question should not have beene asked of mee by F. How I knew But vpon what Motives I did believe Scripture to bee the VVord of God And I would have him take heed lest hunting too close after a way of Knowledge hee loose the way of Faith and teach other men to loose it too So then the Way lyes thus as farre as it appeares Pun. 9. to me The Credit of Scripture to bee Divine Resolves finally into that Faith which wee have touching God Himselfe and in the same order For as that so this hath Three maine Grounds to which all other are Reducible The First is the Tradition of the Church And this leades us to a Reverend perswasion of it The Second is The light of Nature And this shewes us how necessary such a Revealed Learning is and that no other way it can be had * Cum Fides infallibili veritati innitaâ—… Et ideo cum impossibile sit de vero demonstrari Contrarium sequitur omnes Probationes qua contra fidem inducuntur non posse esse Demonstrationes sed solubilia Argumenta Tho. p. 1. q. A. 1. 8. c. Nay more that all Proofes brought against any Point of Faith neither are nor can be Demonstrations but soluble Arguments The Third is The light of the Text it selfe in Conversing wherewith wee meet with the †Fidei ultima Resolutio est in Deum illuminantem S. Aug. cont Fund c. 14. Spirit of God inwardly inclining our hearts and sealeing the full Assurance of the sufficiency of all Three unto us And then and not before wee are certaine That the Scripture is the VVord of God both by Divine and by Infallible Proofe But our Certainty is by Faith and so voluntary not by Knowledge of such Principles as in the light of Nature can enforce Assent whether we will or no. I have said thus much upon this great Occasion because this Argument is so much pressed without due respect to Scripture And I have proceeded in a Syntheticall way to build up the Truth for the benefit of the Church
the satisfaction of all men Christianly disposed Whereas had I desired only to rid my hands of these Captious Iesuites for certainly this Question was Captiously asked it had beene sufficient to have restored the Question thus How doe you know the Testimony of the Church by which you say you know Scripture to be the Word of God to be Divine and Infallible If they proove it by Scripture A. C. p. 53. Et vid. §. 16. N. 28. as all of them doe and as A. C. doth how doe they know that Scripture to be Scripture It is but a Circular Assurance of theirs by which they found the Churches Infallibility upon the Testimonie of the Scripture And the Scriptures Infallibility upon the Testimony of the Church That is upon the Matter the Churches Infallibility upon the Churches Infallibility But I labour for edification not for destruction And now by what I have here said I will weigh my Answer and his Exception taken against it F. The Bishop said That the Books of Scripture are Principles to be Supposed and needed not to be Proved B. Why but did I say That this Principle The § 17 Books of Scripture are the Word of God is to be supposed as needing no Proof at al to a Naturall man Or to a man newly entring upon the Faith yea or perhaps to a Doubter or Weakling in the Faith Can you think me so weake It seemes you doe But sure I know there is a great deale of difference betweene Ethnicks that deny and deride the Scripture and men that are Born in the Church The first have a farther way about to this Principle The other in their very Christian Education sucke it in and are taught so soone as they are apt to learne it That the Books commonly called The Bible or Scripture are the Word of God And I dealt with you †Dixi sicut â—…i congruâ—… ad quâ—…â—…bam c. S Aug. l. 1. Retract c. 13. as with a Christian though in Errour while you call Catholike The Words before spoken by me were That the Scripture onely not any unwritten Tradition was the Foundation of Faith The Question betweene us and you is Whether the Scripture do containe all necessary things of Faith Now in this Question as in all Nature and Art the Subject the Scripture is and must be a Nor is it such a strange thing to heare that Scripture is such 〈◊〉 supposeâ—…d Principle among Chriâ—…ians Quod à Scriptura evidenter deduâ—…itur est evidenter verum suppositis Scripturis Bellarm. L. 4. de Eccl. Milit. c. 3. §. 3. supposed The Quaere between the Romane-Catholikes and the Church of England being onely of the Praedicate the thing uttered of it Namely whether it containe all Fundamentals of Faith all Necessaries for Salvation within it Now since thâ—… Question proposed in very forme of Art proves not but b De Subjecto enim quaeritur semper non Subjectiâ—…n ipsum supposes the Subject I thinke I gave a satisfying Answer That to you and me and in this Question Scripture was a Supposed Principle and needed no Proofe And I must tell you that in this Question of the Scriptures perfect Continent it is against all Art yea and Equity too in Reasoning to call for a Proofe of That here which must go unavoydably supposed in this Question And if any man will be so familiar with Impiety to Question it it must be tryed in a preceding Question and Dispute by it self Yet here not you onely but c L. 4. de verb. Dei c. 4. §. Quarâ—…ò necesse est 〈◊〉 the lesuite here apud A. C. p. 49. Bellarmine and others run quite out of the way to snatch at Advantage F. Against this I read what I had formerly written in my Reply against M. Iohn White Wherein I plainely shewed that this Answer was not good and that no other Answer could be made but by admitting some Word of God unwritten to assure us of this Point B. Indeed here you read out of a Booke which § 18 you called your owne a large Discourse upon this Argument But surely I so untied the knot of the Argument that I set you to your Book againe For your selfe confesse that against this you read what you had formerly written Well! what ere you read there certaine it is you do a great deale of wrong to M. Hooker a L. 3 §. 8. and my selfe that because we call it a Supposed or Presumed Principle among Christians you should fall by and by into such a b Whereas Bellarm. sayes expresly that in the Controversies betweene you and us Non agitur de Metaphysicis subtilitatibus quae sinc periculo ignorari interdum cum laude oppugnari possunt c. Bellarm. Praefat. Operibus praefix §. 3. Metaphysicall Discourse to prove That that which is a c His omnibus Questionibut praemittenda est Controversia de Verbo Dei Neque enim disputari potest nisi priùs in aliquo Communi Principio cum Adversariis conveniamus Convenit autem inter nos omues omninò Haereticos Verbum Dei esse Regulam fidei ex quâ de Dogmatibus judicandum sit esse Commune Principium ab omnibus concessum unde Argumenta ducantur c. Bellarm. Praefat. Operib prafix §. ult And if it be Commune Principium ab omnibus concessum then I hope it must be taken as a thing supposed or as a Praecognitum in this Dispute betweene us Praecognitum fore-knowne in Science must be of such light that it must be knowne of and by it selfe alone and that the Scripture cannot be so knowne to be the Word of God I will not now enter againe into that Discourse having said enough already how farre the Beame which is very glorious especially in some parts of Scripture gives light to prove it selfe You see neither Hooker nor I nor the Church of England for ought I know leave the Scripture alone to manifest it selfe by the light which it hath in it selfe No but when the present Church hath prepared and led the way like a preparing Morning-Light to Sun-shine then indeed we settle for our Direction but not upon the first opening of the morning Light but upon the Sun it selfe Nor will I make needlesse enquiry how farre and in what manner a Praecognitum or Supposed Principle in any Science may be proved in a Higher to which that is subordinate or accepted in a Prime Nor how it may in Divinity where Prae as well as Post-cognita things fore as well as after-knowne are matters and under the manner of Faith and not of Science strictly Nor whether a Praecognitum a presupposed Principle in Faith which rests upon Divine Authority must needs have as much and equall Light to Naturall Reason as Prime Principles have in Nature while they rest upon Reason Nor whether it may justly bee denied to have sufficient Light because not equall Your owne Schoole †Colligitur apertà ex
suum praeferat tanquam ipse solus Spiritum Dei habeat S. Bern. Serm. 3. ae Resurr But Saint Bernard not so For these last words of all the Christian Churches in the world are not in Saint Bernard And whether Toti Congregationi implie more in that Place then a Particular Church is not very manifest Nay I thinke 't is plaine that hee speakes both of and to that particular Congregation to which he was then preaching And I believe A. C. will not easily finde where tota Congregatio the whole Congregation is used in S. Bernard or any other of the Fathers for the whole Catholike Church of Christ. And howsoever the meaning of S. Bernard be 't is one thing for a private man Iudicium suum praeferre to preferre and so follow his private Iudgement before the Whole Congregation which is indeed Lepra proprii Consilii as S. Bernard there cals it the proud Leprosie of the Private Spirit And quite another thing for an Intelligent man and in some things unsatisfied modestly to propose his doubts even to the Catholike Church And much more may a whole Nationall Church nay the whole Body of the Protestants doe it And for S Augustine the Place alledged out of him is a knowne Place And he speakes indeed of the Whole Catholike Church And he * Similiter etiam siquid horum tota per Orbem frequentat Ecclesia Nam hinc quin it a faciendum fit disput are Insolentissimae Insaniae est S. Aug. Epist. 118. c. 5. sayes and hee sayes it truly 'T is a part of most insolent madnesse for any Man to dispute whether that bee to bee done which is usually done in and thorough the whole Catholike Church of Christ. Where first here 's not a word of the Romane Church but of that which is tota per Orbem all over the World Catholike which Rome never yet was Secondly A. C. applies this to A. C. p. 56. the Romane Faith whereas S. Augustine speakes there expresly of the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church and a Quaeris quid per quintam Feriam ultime hebdom adis Quadragesimae fiers debet An offerendum sit manè c. S. Aug. Ibid. particularly about the Manner of Offering upon Maundy-Thursday whether it be in the Morning or after Supper or both Thirdly 't is manifest by the words themselves that S. Augustine speakes of no Matter of Faith there Romane nor Catholike For Frequentat and b And so Bellarmine most expresly But then he adds Universam Ecclesiam non posse errare non solùm in Credendo sed nec in Operando praesertim in Ritu Cultu Divino L 4. de Verb. Dei c. 9. §. 4 And if this be true what is it to Rome Faciendum are for Things done and to be done not for Things believed or to be believed So here 's not One Word for the Romane Faith in either of these Places And after this I hope you will the lesse wonder at A. C s. Boldnesse Lastly a right sober man may without the least Touch of Insolency or Madnesse dispute a Businesse of Religion with the Romane either Church or Prelate As all men know c Euseb. L. 5. Hist. Eccl. c. 26 Et Socrat. L. 5. Hist. c. 22. Irenaeus did with Victor so it bee with Modesty and for the finding out or Confirming of Truth free from Vanity and purposed Opposition against even a Particular Church But in any other way to dispute the Whole Catholike Church is just that which S Augustine cals it Insolent Madnesse But now were it so that the Church of Rome were Orthedoxe in all things yet the Faith by the Jesuite's leave is not simply to be called the Romane but the Christian and the Catholike Faith And yet A. C. will not understand A. C. p. 56. this but Roman and Catholike whether Church or Faith must be one and the same with him and therefore inferres That there can be no just Cause to make a Schisme or Division from the whole Church For the whole Church cannot universally erre in Doctrine of Faith That the whole Church cannot universally erre in the Doctrine of Faith is most true and 't is granted by diverse †Quaestio est An Ecclesia totalis toteliter 〈◊〉 1. pro omnibus simul Electis dum sunt Membra Mâ—…tis Ecclesiae possint errare vel in totâ fiâ—…e vel in gravi aliquo fidei puncto Et respondemus simplicitèr 〈◊〉 esse impossibile Keckerm Syst. Theol. p. 387 Edit Hannoviae An. 1602. Calvinus caeteri Haeretici concedunt Ecclesiam absolutè non posse deficcre Sed dicunt intelligi debere de Ecclesia Inviâ—… Bellarm. L. 3. de Eccles Milit. c. 13. §. 1. But this Exception of Bellarmine's that the Protestants whom out of his Liberality he cals Hereticks speake of the Inâ—…isible Church is meerely frivolous For the Church of the Elect is in the Church of them that are Called and the Invisible Church in the Visible Therefore if the whole Church of the Elect cannot erre in Fundamentals the whole Visible Church in which the same Elect are cannot erre Now that the Invisible Church of the Elect is in the Visible is manifest out of S. Aug. Ipsa est Ecclesia quae intra sagenam Dominicam cum malis piscibus natat S. Aug. Epist. 48. Grana sunt inter illam palcam quando Area cum videretur tota palea putabatur S. Aug. in Psal. 121. And this is proved at large by Hooker L. 3. Eccles. Pol. §. 1. For els the Elect or Invisible Church is tyed to no duty of Christianity For all such Duties are required of the Church as 't is Visible and performed in the Church as 't is Visible And D r. Field speakes as plainly we hold it impossible that the Church should ever by Apostasie and Misbeliefe wholly depart from God c. So we hold that it never fals into Heresie So that Bellarmine is as much to be blamed for idle and needlesse busying himselfe to prove That the Visible Church never fals into Heresie which we most willingly grant Field L. 4. de Eccles. c. 2. Taking the Church for all the Beleevers now living and in things necessary to be knowne expresly Ibid. And Bellarmine himself adds Calvinus dicit hanc Propositionem Ecclesia non potest errare veram esse si intelligatur cum duplici restrictione Prima est si non proponat Dogmata extra Scripturam c. And indeed Calvin doth say so L. 4 Instit. c. 8. §. 13. Secunda est si intelligatur de solâ Ecclesiâ Universali non autem de Representativâ Bellar. L. 3. de Eccl. Milit c. 14. §. 2. And I hope it is as good and a better Restriction in Calvin To say the Catholike Church cannot erre if it keepe to the Scripture then for Bellarmine to say The particular Church of Rome cannot erre because of the Pope's residing there or the Pope cannot
and Bishops And in this Councell he condemned Peter Lombard and in him his Opinion about the Incarnation And therefore of necessity either Pope Alexander erred and that in Cathedrâ as Pope in Condemning him Or Pope Innocentius in restoring him The truth is Pope Alexander had more of Alexander the Great then of S. Peter in him And being accustomed to warlike Imployments he understood not that which Peter Lombard had written about this Mystery And so He and his Learned Assistants Condemned him unjustly And whereas you professe * Apud A. C. p. 68. after That you hold nothing against your Conscience I must ever wonder much how that can be true since you hold this of the Pope's Infallibility especially as being Propheticall in the Conclusion If this be true why doe you not lay all your strength together all of your whole Society and make this one Proposition evident For all Controversies about matters of Faith are ended and without any great trouble to the Christian World if you can but make this one Proposition good That the Pope is an Infallible Iudge Till then this shame will follow you infallibly and eternally That you should make the Pope a meere man Principium Fidei a Principle or Authour of Faith and make the mouth of him whom you call Christ's Vicar sole Iudge both of Christ's Word be it never so manifest and of his Church be she never so Learned and carefull of his Truth And for Conclusion of this Point I would faine know since this had beene so plaine so easie a way either to prevent all Divisions about the Faith or to end all Controversies did they arise why this briefe but most necessary Proposition The Bishop of Rome cannot erre in his Iudiciall Determinations concerning the Faith is not to be found either in Letter or sense in any Scripture in any Councell or in any Father of the Church for the full space of a thousand yeares and more after Christ For had this Proposition been true and then received in the Church how weake were all the Primitive Fathers to prescribe so many Rules and Cautions for avoydance of Heresie as Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis and others do and to indure such hard Conflicts as they did and with so many various Haereticks To see Christendome so rent and torne by some distempered Councels as that of Ariminum the second of Ephesus and others Nay to see the whole world almost become Arrian to the amazement of it selfe And yet all this time not so much as call in this Necessary Assistance of the Pope and let the world know That the Bishop of Rome was infallible that so in his Decision all differences might cease For either the Fathers of the Church Greeke as well as Latine knew this Proposition to be true That the Pope cannot Erre Iudicially in matters belonging to the Faith or they knew it not If you say they knew it not you charge them with a base and unworthy Ignorance no wayes like to over-cloud such and so many Learned men in a Matter so Necessary and of such infinite use to Christendome If you say they knew it and durst not deliver this Truth how can you charge them which durst die for Christ with such Cowardise towards his Church And if you say they knew it and with-held it from the Church you lay a most unjust Load upon those Charitable Soules which loved Christ too well to imprison any Truth but likely to make or keepe peace in his Church Catholike over the world But certainly as no Divine of worth did then dreame of any such Infallibility in Him so is it a meere dreame or worse of those Moderne Divines who affirme it now a The wilde Extent of the Popes Infallibility and Jurisdiction is a Mistake These are the Words of a Great Romane Catholike uttered to my selfe But I will spare his Name because he is living and I will not draw your Envy upon him And as b Puto quòd ipsi etiam rideant quum hoc audiunt tamen nifi hoc dicant quod erabescant si dicant non habent omninò quod dicant Sed quid ad nos Nâ—…ini invidemus Legant nobis hoc de Scripturis Sanctis credimus S. August de Vnit. Eccl. c. 17. S. Augustine somtimes spake of the Donatists and their absurd limiting the whole Christian Church to Africa onely so may I truly say of the Romanists confining all Christianity to the Romane Doctrine governed by the Pope's Infallibility I verily perswade my selfe That even the Jesuites themselves laugh at this And yet unlesse they say this which they cannot but blush while they say they have nothing at all to say But what 's this to us we envy no man If the Pope's Decision bee infallible Legant Let them read it to us out of the Holy Scripture and wee 'l believe it In the meane time take this with you that most certaine it is That the Pope hath no Infallibility to attend his Cathedrall Iudgement in Things belonging to the Faith For first besides the silence of Impartiall Antiquity Diverse c Papa non solùm Errore Personali sed Errore Iudiciali potest errare in Materia Fidei Almain L. de Author Eccles. c. 10. of your Owne confesse it yea and proove it too by sundry Instances Secondly there is a great Question among the Learned both Schoole-men and Controversers Whether the Pope comming to bee an Hereticke may bee Deposed And 't is learnedly disputed by d L. 2. de Rom. Font c. 30. Bellarmine The Opinions are different For the e Si sit à Fide de vius Dist. 40. Can. Si Papa Canon-Law saies expresly He may be judged and deposed by the Church in Case of Heresie †Iure Divino Papatu privatus est c. Io. de Turrecrem L. 4. Par. 2. c. 20. Et Bellar. L. 2. de Re. Pent. c. 30. Io. de Turrecremata is of Opinion That the Pope is to be deposed by the Church so soone as he becomes an Hereticke though as yet not a manifest one Because he is already deprived by Divine Right And recites another opinion That the Pope cannot be deposed though be fall into secret or manifest Heresie * Papa factus Hareticus non est ipso facte vel jure Divino vel humano depositus sed deponendus Cajet Tract de Author Papa Concilii c. 20. Cajetan thinkes that the Pope cannot be deposed but for a manifest Heresie and that then he is not deposed ipso facto but must be deposed by the Church †Papa Hareticus manifestus per se desinit esse Papa Caput c. Et tum potest ab Ecclesiâ Iudicari puniri Bellar. L. 2. de Rom. Pont. c. 30. §. Est ergo quinta Bellarmines owne Opinion is That if the Pope become a manifest Hereticke he presently ceases to be Pope and Head of the Church and may then be Iudged and
this Pope which now sits or any other that hath beene or shall be is Infallible For he is not Infallible unlesse he be Pope and he is not Pope unlesse he be in Holy Orders And he cannot be so unlesse he have received those Holy Orders and that from one that had Power to Ordaine And those Holy Orders in your Doctrine are a Sacrament And a Sacrament is not perfectly given if he that Administers it have not intentionem faciendi quod facit Ecclesia an intention to doe that which the Church doth by Sacraments Now who can possibly tell that the Bishop which gave the Pope Orders was first a man qualified to give them and secondly so devoutly set upon his Worke that he had at the Instant of giving them an Intention and purpose to doe therein as the Church doth Surely none but that Bishop himselfe And his testimony of himselfe and his owne Act such especially as if faulty he would be loth to Confesse can neither give Knowledge nor Beliefe sufficient that the Pope according to this Canon is in Holy Orders So upon the Whole matter let the Romanists take which they will I give them free choyce either this Canon of the Councell of Trent is false Divinity and there is no such Intention necessary to the Essence and Being of a Sacrament Or if it be true it is impossible for any man to know and for any advised man to Believe That the Pope is Infallible in â—…is Iudiciall Sentences in things belonging to the Faith And so here againe a Generall Councell at least such an One as that of Trent is can Erre or the Pope is not Infallible But this is an Argument ad Hominem good against your Partie onely which maintaine this Councâ—…ll But the plaine Truth is Both are Errours For neither is the Bishop of Rome Infallible in his Iudicialls about the Faith Nor is this Intention of either Bishop or Priest of Absolute Necessity to the Essence of a Sacrament so as to make void the gracious Institution of Christ in case by any Tentation the Priests Thoughts should wander from his Worke at the Instant of using the Essentials of a Sacrament or have in him an Actuall Intention to scorne the Church And you may remember if you please that a Neopolitan †Minorensis Episcopus suit Bishop then present at Trent disputed this Case very learnedly and made it most evident that this Opinion cannot be defended but that it must open a way for any unworthy Priest to make infinite Nullities in Administration of the Sacraments And his Arguments were of such strength * L 2. Hist. Trident p 276. 277. Lâ—…idae An. 1622 ut caeteros Theologos dederint in stuporem as amazed the other Divines which were present And concluded That no Internall Intention was required in the Minister of a Sacrament but that Intention which did appeare Opere externo in the VVorke it selfe performed by him And that if hee had unworthily any wandring thoughts nay more any contrary Intention within him yet it neither did nor could hinder the blessed effect of any Sacrament And most certaine it is if this be not true besides all other Inconveniences which are many no man can secure himselfe upon any Doubt or trouble in his Conscience that he hath truly and really beene made partaker of any Sacrament whatsoever No not of Baptisme and so by Consequence be left in Doubt whether he be a Christian or no even after he is Baptised Wheras 't is most impossible That Christ should so order his Sacraments and so leave them to his Church as that poore Believers in his Name by any unworthinesse of any of his Priests should not be able to know whether they have received His Sacraments or not even while they have received them And yet for all this such great lovers of Truth and such Carefull Pastors over the Flock of Christ were these Trent Fathers that they regarded none of this but went on in the usuall track and made their Decree for the Internall Intention and purpose of the Priest and that the Sarcament was invalid without it Nay one Argument more there is and from your owne Grounds too that makes it more then manifest That the Pope can erre not Personally only but Iudicially also and so teach false Doctrine to the Church which a Summus Pontifâ—… quum 〈◊〉 Ecclesiam â—…ct in his quae al Fidem pertinent nullo casu â—…rrare potest Bel. l. 4. De Ro. Pâ—…t c. 3. §. 1. Bellarmine tels us No Pope hath done or can doe And a Maxime it is with you That a Generall Councell can erre if it be not confirmed by the Pope b Concilia Genâ—…ralia à Pontifiâ—… Consirmata 〈◊〉 non possunt 〈◊〉 L. 2. de Con. c. 2. §. 1. But if it be confirmed then it cannot erre Where first this is very improper Language For I hope no Councell is Confirmed till it be finished And when 't is finished even before the Popes Confirmation be put to it either it hath Erred or not erred If it have Erred the Pope ought not to Confirme it and if he do t is a void Act. For no power can make falshood Truth If it have not Erred then it was True before the Pope Confirmed it So his Confirmation addes nothing but his owne Assent Therefore his Confirmation of a Generall Councell as you will needs call it is at the most Signum non Causa A Signe and that such as may faile but no Cause of the Councels not Erring But then secondly if a Generall Councell Confirmed as you would have it by the Pope have Erred and so can Erre then certainly the Pope can Erre Iudicially For he never gives a more solemne Sentence for Truth then when he Decrees any thing in a Generall Councell Therefore if he have Erred and can Erre there then certainly he can Erre in his Definitive Sentence about the Faith and is not Infallible Now that he hath Erred and therefore can Erre in a Generall Councell Confirmed in which he takes upon him to teach all Christendome is most cleere and evident For the Pope teaches in and by the a Conc. Lateran Can. 1. Councell of Lateran Confirmed by Innocent the third Christ is present in the Sacrament by way of Transubstantiation And in and by the b Concil Constan Sess. 13. Councell of Constance the Administration of the Blessed Sacrament to the Laity in one kinde notwithstanding Christs Institution of it in both kindes for all And in and by the c Concil Trid. Sess. 25. Decret de Invotatione Councell of Trent Invocation of Saints and Adoration of Images to the great Scandall of Christianity and as great hazard of the Weake Now that these Particulars among Many are Errours in Divinity and about the Faith is manifest both by Scripture and the Iudgement of the Primitive Church For Transubstantiation first That was never heard of in the Primitive Church nor
Charity of the Church her selfe were mistaken in the Case of the Donatists as shall †§. 35. Nu. 3. after appeare Secondly even Mistaken Charity if such it were is farre better then none at all And if the Mistaken be ours the None is yours Yea but A. C. tells us That this denyall of Salvation A. C. p. 65. is grounded upon Charitie as were the like threats of Christ and the Holy Fathers For there is but one true Faith and one true Church and out of that there is no Salvation And he that will not heare the Church S. Matth. 18. let him bee as a Heathen and a Publicane Therefore he sayes 't is more Charity to fore-warne us of the danger by S. Matth. 18. 17. these threats then to let us run into it thorough a false security 'T is true that there is but one true Faith and but one true Church But that one both Faith and Church is the a And this is prooved by the Creed â—…n which we professe our Beliefe of the Catholike not of the Roman Church Catholike Christian not the Particular Romane And this Catholike Christian Church he that will not both heare and obey yea and the Particular Church in which hee lives too so farre as it in necessaries agrees with the Vniversall is in as bad condition as a Heathen and a Publicane and perhaps in some respects worse And were we in this Case we should thanke A. C. for giving us warning of our danger But 't is not so For he thunders out all these threats and denyall of salvation because we joyne not with the Romane Church in all things as if her Corruptions were part of the Catholike Faith of Christ. So the whole passage is a meere begging of the Question and then threatning upon it without all ground of Reason or Charity In the meane time let A. C. looke to himselfe that in his false security hee run not into the danger and losse of his owne salvation while hee would seeme to take such care of ours But though this Argument prevailes with the weake yet it is much stronger in the cunning then the true force of it For all Arguments are very mooving that lay their ground upon b This is a free Confession of the Adversaries Argument against themselves and therefore is of force A. C. p. 64. But every Confession of Adversaries or others is to be taken with its Qualities and Conditions If you leave out or change these you wrong the Confession and then 't is of no force And â—…so doth A. C. here And though Bell. rm makes the Confession of the Adversaâ—…y a note of the true Church L. 4. de Notâ—…s Ecâ—…l c. 16. yet in the very beginning whâ—… layes his Ground 〈◊〉 1. he layes it 〈◊〉 plaine fallacie à secunaùm quid ad simpliciter the Adversaries Confession especially if it be confessed and avouched to be true But if you would speak truly and say Many Protestants indeed confesse there is salvation possible to be attained in the Romane Church but that yet they say withall that the Errors of that Church are so many * For they are no meane Differences that are betweene us by Bellarmines owne Confession Agendum est non de rebus levibus sed de gravissimis Quastionibut quae ad ipsa Fidei fundament a pertinent c. Bellarm. in praefat Operibus praefixá §. 3. And therefore the Errours in them and the Corruptions of them cannot bee of small Consequence by your owne Confession Yeâ—… by your owne indeed For you A. C. say full as much if not more then Bellarmine Thus We Catholikes hold all points in which Protestants differ from us in Doctrine of Faith to be Fundamentall and necessary to bee Believed or at least not denyed A. C. Relation of the first Conference p. 28. and some so great by the Confession of your owne as weaken the Foundation that it is very hard to goe that way to Heaven especially to them that have had the Truth manifested the heart of this Argument were utterly broken Besides the force of this Argument lyes upon two things one directly Expressed the other but as upon the By. That which is expressed is We and our Adversaries consent that there is salvation to some in the Romane Church What would you have us as malicious at least as rash as your selves are to us and deny you so much as possibility of Salvation If we should we might make you in some things straine for a Proofe But we have not so learned Christ as either to return evill for evill in this headie course or to deny salvation to some ignorant silly soules whose humble peaceable obedience makes them safe among any part of men that professe the Foundation Christ And therefore seeke not â—…o help our Cause by denying this comfort to silly Christians as you most fiercely do where you can come to worke upon them And this was an old trick of the Donatists For in the Point of Baptisme Whether that Sacrament was true in the Catholike Church or in the Part of Donatus they exhorted all to be baptised among them VVhy Because both Parts granted that Baptisme was true among the Dâ—…atists which that peevish Sect most unjustly denyed the sound part as S. †Esse verò apud Dâ—…natistas Baptismum illi asserunt nos concedimus c. L. 1. de Bap. cont Donat. c. 3. Augustine delivers it I would aske now Had not the Orthodox true Baptisme among them because the Donatists denyed it injuriously Or should the Orthodox against Truth have denyed Baptisme among the Donatists either to cry quittance with them or that their Argument might not be the stronger because both parts granted But Marke this how farre you runne from all common Principles of Christian Peace as well as Christian Truth while you deny salvation most unjustly to us from which you are farther off your selves Besides if this were or could be made a concluding Argument I pray why doe not you believe with us in the Point of the Eucharist For all sides agree in the Faith of the Church of England That in the most Blessed Sacrament the Worthy receiver is by his * Corpus Christi manducatur in Coena c. tantùm caelesti spirituall ratione Medium autem quo Corpus Christi accipitur manducatur in Coenâ Fides est Eccl. Angl. Art 28. After a spirituall manner by Faith on our behalfe and by the working of the Holy Ghost on the behalfe of Christ. Fulk in 1 Cor. 11. p. 528. Christus se cum omnibus bonis suit in Coenâ offert nos eum recipimus fide c. Calv. 4. Inst. c. 17. §. 5. Et Hooker L. 5. §. 67. p. 176. And say not you the same with us Spiritualis manducatio quae per Animam fit ad Christi Carnem in Sacramento pertingit Cajet Tom. 2. Opusc. de Euchar. Tract 2. Cap. 5. Sed
Trent opposed this word realiter Figmento Calvinistico to the Calvinisticâ—…ll figment Ibid. Bellarmine confesses it For hee saith Protestants do often grant that the true and reall Body of Christ is in the Eucharist But he adds That they never say so farre as he hath read That it is there â—…ruly and Really unlesse they speake of the Supper which shall be in Heaven Well first if they grant that the true and Reall Body of Christ is in that Blessed Sacrament as Bellarmine confesses they doe and 't is most true then A. C. is false who charges all the Protestants with deniall or doubtfulnesse in this Point And A. C. p 65. secondly Bellarmine himselfe also shewes here his Ignorance or his Malice Ignorance if he knew it not Malice if he would not know it For the Calvinists at least they which follow Calvine himself do not onely believe that the true and reall Body of Christ is received in the Eucharist but that it is there and that we partake of it verè realiter which are b Calv. in 1. Cor. 10. 3. verè c. in 1. Cor. 11. 24. realiter Vids suprà Num. 3. Calvine's owne words and yet Bellarmine boldly affirmes that to his reading no one Protestant did ever affirme it And I for my part cannot believe but Bellarmine had read Calvine and very carefully he doth so frequently and so mainly Oppose him Nor can that Place by any Art be shifted or by any Violence wrested from Calvine's true meaning of the Presence of Christ in and at the blessed Sacrament of the Fucharist to any Supper in Heaven whatsoever But most manifest it is that Quod legerim for ought I have read will not serve Bellarmine to Excuse him For he himselfe but in the very c Bellar. L. 1. de Eucharistia c. 1. §. Secundo docet Chapter going before quotes foure Places out of Calvine in which he sayes expresly That we receive in the Sacrament the Body and the Blood of Christ Verè truly So Calvine sayes it foure times and Bellarmine quotes the places and yet he sayes in the very next Chapter That never any Protestant said so to his Reading And for the Church of England nothing is more plaine then that it believes and teaches the true and reall Presence of Christ in the * The Body of Christ is given taken and eaten in the Supper of the Lord onely after an Heavenly and Spirituall manner And the meanes whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten is Faith Eccl. Ang. Art 28. So here 's the Manner of Transubstantiation denied but the Body of Christ twice affirmed And in the prayer before Consecration thus Grant us Gracious Lord so to eat the Flesh of thy deare Sonne Jesus Christ and to drinke his Blood c. And againe in the second Prayer or Thanksgiving after Consecration thus We give thee Thanks for that thou dost vouchsafe to feed us which have duly received these holy Mysteries with the spirituall food of the most precious Body and Blood of thy Sonne our Saviour Jesus Christ c. Eucharist unlesse A. C. can make a Body no Body and Blood no Blood as perhaps he can by Transubstantiation as well as Bread no Bread Wine no Wine And the Church of England is Protestant too So Protestants of all sorts maintain a true and reall Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and then where 's any known or damnable Heresie here As for the Learned of those zealous men that died in this Cause in Q. Maries dayes they denied not the Reall Presence simply taken but as their Opposites forced Transubstantiation upon them as if that and the Reall Presence had beene all one Whereas all the Ancient Christians ever believed the one and none but moderne and superstitious Christians believe the other If they do believe it for I for my part doubt they do not And as for the Vnlearned in those times and all times their zeale they holding the Foundation may eat out their Ignorances and leave them safe Now that the Learned Protestants in Q. Maries dayes did not denie nay did maintaine the Reall Presence will manifestly appeare For when the Commissioners obtruded to Io. Frith the Presence of Christ's naturall Body in the Sacrament and that without all figure or similitude Io. Frith acknowledges †Io. Fox Marâ—…rolog To. 2. London 1597. pag. 943. That the inward man doth as verily receive Christ's Body as the outward man receives the Sacrament with his Mouth And he addes a Fox ibid. That neither side ought to make it a necessary Article of Faith but leave it indifferent Nay Archbishop Cranmer comes more plainely and more home to it then Frith For if you understand saith b Cranmer apud Fox ibid. p. 1301. he by this word Really Reipsâ that is in very deed and effectually so Christ by the Grace and efficacy of his Passion is indeed and truly present c. But if by this word Really you understand c I say Corporalitèr Corporally for so Bellarmine hath it expresly Quod autem Corporalitèr propriè sumatur Sanguis Caro c. probari potest omnibus Argumentis c. Bellar. L. 1. de Eucharist c. 12. §. Sed tota And I must bee bold to tell you more then That this is the Doctrine of the Church of Rome For I must tell you too that Bellarmine here contradicts himselfe For he that tels us here that it can be proved by many Arguments that we receive the Flesh and the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist Corporaliter said as expresly before had he remembred it that though Christ be in this Blessed Sacrament verè realiter yet saith he non dicemus Corporaliter i. e. co modo quo suâ naturâ existunt Corpora c. Bellar. L. 1. de Euchar. c. 2. §. Tertia Regula So Bellarm. here is in a notorious Contradiction Or els it will follow plainly out of him That Christ in the Sacrament is existent one way and received another which is a grosse absurdity And that Corporaliter was the Doctrine of the Church of Rome and meant by Transubstantiation is farther plaine in the Booke called The Institution of a Christian man set forth by the Bishops in Convocation in Hen. 8. time An 1534 Cap. Of the Sacrament of the Altar The words 〈◊〉 Unaâ—…r the forme and figure of Bread and Wine the very Body and Blood of Christ is Corporally really c. exhibited and received c. And Aquinas expresses it thus Quia tamen substantia Corporis Christi realiter non dâ—…iditur à sua quantitate dimensivâ ab aliis 〈◊〉 â—…bus indè est quod ex virealis Concomitantiae est in hoc Sacramento tota quantitas dimensiva Corporis Christi omnia Accidentia ejus Tho. p. 3. q. 76. Ar. 4. c. Corporaliter Corporally in his naturall and Organicall Body under the Formes of Bread and Wine 't
Animas reâ—…runt Pet. Matt. Loc. Com. Class 3. Ca. 15. Nu 4. they utterly deny any Resurrection of the Body after Death So with them that Article of the Creed is gone Now then if any man will guide his Faith by this Rule of A. C. The Consent of dissenting Parties or the Confession of the Adverse Part hee must denie the Resurrection of the Body from the Grave to Glory and believe none but that of the Soule from sinne to Grace which the Adversaries Confesse and in which the Dissenting Parties agree Punct 3. Thirdly in the great Dispute of all others about the Vnity of the Godhead All dissenting parties Iew Turke and Christian Among Christians Orthodoxe and Anti-Trinitarian of old And in these later times Orthodoxe and Socinian that Horrid and mighty monster of all Heresies agree in this That there is but one God And I hope it is as necessary to believe one God our Father as one Church our Mother Now will A. C. say here 't is safest believing as the dissenting Parties agree or as the Adverse Parties Confesse namely That there is but one God and so deny the Trinity and therewith the Sonne of God the Saviour of the world Fourthly in a Point as Fundamentall in the Faith as Punct 4. this Namely whether Christ be true and very God For which very Point most of the a Hebr. 11. 37. Cyrillus Alexandrinut malè audivit quod Ammonium Martyrem appellavit quem constitit temeritatis poenas dedisse non Necessitate negandi Christi in tormentis esse mortuum Socr. Hist. Eccl. L. 7. c. 14. Martyrs in the Primitive Church laid down their lives The dissenting Parties here were the Orthodoxe Believers who affirme Hee is both God and Man for so our Creed teaches us And all those Hereticks which affirme Christ to bee Man but denie him to bee God as the b Optatus L. 4. Cont. Parmen Arrians and c Tertul. L. de Prascrip c. 48. Carpocratians and d Tertul. Ibid. Cerinthus and e Tertul. L. de Carne Christi c. 14. Hebion with others and at this day the f Si ad Iesu Christi respicias Essentiam at que Naturam non nisi Hominem eum fuisse constantèr affirmaâ—…us Volkelius Lib. 3. de Religione Christianâ cap. 1. Socinians These dissenting Parties agree fully and clearely That Christ is Man Well then Dare A. C. sticke to his Rule here and say 't is safest for a Christian in this great Point of Faith to governe his Beliefe by the Consent of these dissenting Parties or the Confession and acknowledgement of the Adverse Partie and so settle his Beliefe that Christ is a meere Man and not God I hope hee dares not So then this Rule To Resolve a mans Faith into that in which the Dissenting Parties agree or which the Adverse Part confesses is as often false as true And false in as Great if not Greater Matters then those in which it is true And where 't is true A. C. and his fellowes dare not governe themselves by it the Church of Rome condemning those things which that Rule proves And yet while they talke of Certainty nay of Infallibility lesse will not serve their turnes they are driven to make use of such poore shifts as these which have no certainty at all of Truth in them but inferre falshood and Truth alike And yet for this also men will be so weake or so wilfull as to be seduced by them I told you * §. 35. Nu. 2. fine before That the force of the preceding Argument lies upon two things The one expressed and that 's past the other upon the Bye which comes now to be handled And that is your continuall poore Out-cry against us That we cannot be saved because we are out of the Church Sure if I thought I were out I would get in as fast as I could For we confesse as well as you That a Extra Ecclesiam veminem Vivificat Spiritus Sanctus S. Aug. Epist. 5 0. ad finem Field L. 1. de Eccles. c. 13. Vna est Fidelium Vniversalis Ecclesia extra quam nullus salvatur Conc Lateran Can. 1. And yet even there there is no mention of the Romane Church Out of the Catholike Church of Christ there is no Salvation But what do you meane by Out of the Church Sure out of the b And so doth A. C. too Out of the Catholiâ—… Romane Church there is no Possibility of Salvaâ—…on A C. p. 65. Romane Church Why but the Romane Church and the Church of England are but two distinct members of that Catholike Church which is spread over the face of the earth Therefore Rome is not the House where the Church dwels but Rome it selfe as well as other Particular Churches dwels in this great Universall House unlesse you will shut up the Church in Rome as the Donatists did in Africke I come a little lower Rome and oâ—…her Nationall Churches are in this Vniversall Catholike House as so many * And Daughter Sion was God's owne phrase of old of the Church Isa. 1. 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hyppol Orat. de Consum mundi Et omnis Ecclesia Virgo appellata est S. Aug. Tr. 13. in S. Ioh. Daughters to whom under Christ the care of the Houshold is committed by God the Father and the Catholike Church the Mother of all Christians Rome as an Elder Sister †For Christ was to be preached to all Nations but that Preaching was to begin at Ierusalem S. Luc. 24. 47. according to the Prophesie Mic. 4. 2. And the Disciples were first called Christians at Antioch Act. 11. 26. And therefore there was a Church there before ever S. Peter came thence to settle One at Rome Nor is it an Opinion destitute either of Authority or Probability That the Faith of Christ was preached and the Sacraments administred here in England before any settlement of a Church in Rome For S. Gildas the Ancientest monument we have and whom the Romanists themselves reverence sayes expresly That the Religion of Christ was received in Britannie Tempore ut scimus summo Tiberii Caesaris c. In the later time of Tiberius Caesar Gildas deexcid Brit. whereas S. Peter kept in Iewrie long after Tiberius his death Therefore the first Conversion of this Iland to the Faith was not by S. Peter Nor from Rome which was not then a Church Against this Rich. Broughton in his Ecclesiasticall History of Great Britaine Centur. 1. C. 8. §. 4. sayes expresly That the Protestants do freely acknowledge that this Clause of the time of Tiberius tempore summo Tiberii Caesaris is wanting in other Copies of that holy Writer and namely in that which was set forth by Pol. Virgil and others Whereas first these words are expresse in a most faire and ancient Manuscript of Gildas to be seene in S t. Rob. Cotton's Study if any doubt it Secondly these words are as expresse in
most certaine it is that the Ancients had and gave other Reasons of Prayâ—…r for the dead then freeing them out of any Purgatory And this is very Learnedly and at large set downe by the now Learned a laâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In 〈◊〉 answer to tâ—… suites Châ—… c. 7 p. 19â—… Primate of 〈◊〉 But then in the second he sayes there are b Sunâ—… aperâ—…ma Lâ—…ca 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tribus ubi â—…runt Purgâ—…um Bel. L 1 〈◊〉 Purg. c. 6 § De inde sunt most manifest places in the Fathers in which they affirme Purgatory And hee names there no fewer then two and twenty of the Fathers A great Iury certainly did they give their Ver dict with him But first within the three hundred yeares after Christ he names none but Tertullian Cyprian and Origen And c Tert. L. de Ani. c. 17. Internum Tertullian speakes expresly of Hell not of Purgatory S. d Cypr. L 4. 〈◊〉 2. Emendari â—…ne Cyprian of a Purging to Amendment which cannot be after this Life As for e Orig. Lib. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap 6 S. Hieron in â—…nae 3 Bellar. L. de Purg. c. 2. §. Porâ—…o non S. Aug. L 21. civ Dei c. 17 Origen he I think indeed was the first Founder of Purgatory But of such an One as I believe Bellarmine dares not affirme For hee thought there was no Punishment after this life but Purgatory and that not only the most impious men but even the Divils themselves should be saved after they had suffered and beene Purged enough Which is directly contrary to the Word of God expounded by his f S Aug L 21. civ Dei c. 17 Church In the fourth and fifth the great and Learned Ages of the Church he names more as g S. Amb. in Psa. 36. 14. S. Ambrose But S. Ambrose sayes That some shall be saved quasi per ignem as it were by fire leaving it as doubtfull what was meant by that Fire as the Place it selfe doth whence it is taken h 1 Cor. 3. 15. S. Hieron in 66. Isai. sine 1 Cor. 3. S. Hierome indeed names a Purging by Fire But 't is not very plaine that he meanes it after this life And howsoever this is most plaine That S. Hierome is at Credimus we believe eternall Punishment but hee goes no farther then Arbitramur we thinke there is a Purging So with him it was Arbitrary And therefore sure no Matter of Faith then And againe k S. Hieron L 4 cont Pelag. ultra medium he saith That some Christians may be saved post poenas after some punishments indured but he neither tells us Where nor When. S. l S. Basil. in Isai 9. Basil names indeed Purgatory fire but he relates as uncertainly to that in 1 Cor. 3. as S. Ambrose doth As for m Paulin. Epâ—… Paulinus he speakes for Prayer for the dead but not a word of Purgatory And the Place in S. a Greg. Naz Orat 39. fine Gregory Nazianzen is farre from a manifest Place For hee speakes there of Baptisme by fire which is no usuall phrase to signifie Purgatory But yet say that here he doth ther 's a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a fortassis a peradventure in the words which Bellarmine cunningly leaves out And if it be a Peradventure yee shall then be Baptised with fire why then 't is at a Peradventure too that yee shall not Now such Casuall stuffe as this peradventure you shall and peradventure you shall not is no Expression for things which are valued to be de fide and to be believed as Matters of Faith Bellarmine goes on with b Lact. L. 7. c. 21 Lactantius but with no better successe For he sayes indeed That some men perstringenturigne shall be sharply touched by fire But he speakes of such quorum peccata praevaluerunt whose sinnes have prevailed And they in Bellarmine's Doctrine are for Hell not Purgatory As for S. c S. Hilar. in Ps. 118. v. 20. Hilary he will not come home neither 'T is true he speakes of a Fire too and one that must be indured but he tells us 't is a Punishment expiandae a peccatis animae to purge the soule from sinnes Now this will not serve Bellarmine's turne For they of Rome teach That the sinnes are forgiven here and that the Temporall Punishment only remaines to be satisfied in Purgatory And what need is there then of purging of sinnes Lest there should not be Fathers enough hee reckons in d Boetius L. 4. Pros. 4. Boetius too But he though not long before a Convert yet was so well seene in this Point that he goes no farther then Puto I thinke that after death some soules are exercised purgatoriâ clementiâ with a Purgative Clemency But Puto I think 't is so is no expression for Matter of Faith The two Pregnant Authorities which seeme to come home are those of Gregory Nyssene and Theodoret. But for g Theo. in 1 Cor. 〈◊〉 Theodoret in Scholiis Graecis which is the Place Bellarmine quotes I can finde no such Thing And manifest it is Bellarmine a Bellarmin L. 1. de Purgato c. 4 Ex Graecis habemus himselfe tooke it but upon trust And for b S. Greg. Nyss. Orat. de Mortuis p. 1066. Edit Paris 1615. Tom. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. ibid. p. 1067. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. ibid. p. 1068. S. Gregory Nyssen 't is true some places in him seeme plaine But then they are made so doubtfull by other Places in him that I dare not say simply and roundly what his Iudgment was For he sayes Men must be purged from Perturbations and either by Prayers and Philosophy or the study of Wisdome or by the furnace of Purgatory-fire after this life And againe That a man cannot be partaker 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Divine nature unlesse the Purging fire doth take away the staines that are in his Soule And againe That after this life a Purgatory fire takes away the blots and propensity to evill And I deny not diverse other like places are in him But first this is quite another thing from the Romane Purgatory For S. Gregory tels us here that the Purgatory he meanes purges Perturbations and staines and blots and propensity to evill Whereas the Purgatory which Rome now teaches purges not sinne c Item definimus si ver's poenitentis in Ded eharitate decesserint antequam dignis poenitentiae fructibus de Commissis Omissis satisfecorint poenâ—… Purgatorius post mortem purgari Concil Floren. circa Prin. per Bin. Edit Colon. 1618. but is only satisfactory by way of punishment for sins already forgiven but for which satisfaction was not made before their Death Secondly S. Gregory Nyssen himself seems not obscurely to relate to some other Fire d S. Greg. Nyss. de Animâ Resur Tom. 2 p. 658. For he sayes expresly That the soule is to bee
but that it shall still be a maiâ—… Note of the true Church and in that sense which he would have it And his Reason is b Quia Doctrina Sana est ab ipsa verà legiâ—…ima Successione indivâ—…lsa Stapl. Ibid. Bâ—…se sound Doctrine is indivisible from true and Lawfull Succession Where you shall see this great Clarke for so hee was not able to stand to himselfe when he hath forsaken Truth For 't is not long after that he tels us That the People are led along and judge the Doctrine by the Pastors But when the Church comes to examine she judges the Pastors by their Doctrine And this c Nam è Pastore Lâ—…s fieri potâ—…st Stap. ibid. Nâ—…tab 4. he sayes is necessary Because a Man may become of a Pastor a Wolfe Now then let Stapleton take his choise For either a Pastor in this Succession cannot become a Wolfe and then this Proposition's false Or els if he can then sound Doctrine is not inseparable from true and Legitimate succession And then the former Proposition's false as indeed it is For that a good Pastour may become a Wolfe is no newes in the Ancient Story of the Church in which are registred the Change of many a Vincent Lit. cont Har. c. 23. 24. Great men into Hereticks I spare their Names And since Iudas chang'd from an Apostle to a Divell S. Ioh. 6. 't is no wonder to see S. Ioh. 6. 70. others change from Shepheards into Wolves I doubt the Church is not empty of such Changelings at this day Yea but Stapleton will helpe all this For he adds That suppose the Pastors do forsake true Doctrine yet Succession shall still be a true Note of the Church Yet not every Succession but that which is Legitimate and true Well And what is that Why b Legitima autem est illorum Pastorum qui Vnitatem tenent Fidem Stap. ibid. Notab 5. That Succession is lawfull which is of those Pastors which hold entire the Unity and the Faith Where you may see this Samson's haire cut off againe For at his word I 'le take him And if that onely be a Legitimate Succession which holds the Vnity and the Faith entire then the Succession of Pastors in the Romane Church is illegitimate For they have had c In their owne Chronologer Onuphrius there are Thirty acknowledged more Schismes among them then any other Church Therefore they have not kept the unity of the Church And they have brought in grosse Superstition Therefore they have not kept the Faith â—…ntire Now if A. C. have any minde to it he may do well to helpe Stapleton out of these bryars upon which he hath torne his Credit and I doubt his Conscience too to uphold the Corruptions of the Sea of Rome As for that in which he is quite mistaken it is his Inference which is this That I should therefore consider carefully Whether it be not more Christian and lesse braine-sicke to think that the Pope being S Peter's Successour with a Generall Councell should be Iudge of Controversies c. And that the Pastorall Iudgement of him should be accounted Infallible rather then to make every man that can read the Scripture Interpreter of Scripture Decider of Controversies Controller of Generall Councels and Judge of his Judges Or to have no Judge at all of Controversies of Faith but permit every man to believe as he list As if there were no Infallible certainty of Faith to be expected on earth which were instead of one saving Faith to induce a Babilonicall Confusion of so many faiths as fancies Or no true Christian Faith at all From which Evils Sweet Jesus deliver us I have Considered of this very carefully But this Inference supposes that which I never granted nor any Protestant that I yet know Namely That if I deny the Pope to be Iudge of Controversies I must by and by either leave this supreme Judicature in the hands and power of every private man that can but read the Scripture or els allow no Iudge 〈◊〉 and so let in all manner of Confusion No God forbid I should grant either For I have expâ—…esly * §. 26. Nu. 1. declared That the Scripture interpreted by the Primitive Church and a Lawfull and free Generall Councell determining according to these is Iudge of Controversies And that no private man whatsoever is or can be Iudge of these Therefore A. C. is quite mistaken and I pray God it be not wilfully to beguile poore Ladiâ—… and other their weake adherents with seeming to say somewhat I say quite mistaken to inferre that I am either for a private Iudge or for no Iudge for I utterly disclaime both and that as much if not more then he or any Romanist who ever he be But these things in this passage I cannot swallow First That the Pope with a Generall Councell should be Iudge for the Pope in ancient Councels never had more power then any the other Patriarchs Precedency perhaps for Orders sake and other respects he had Nor had the Pope any Negative voice against the rest in point of difference †Patrum Avorum nostrorum tempore pauci audebant dicere Papam esse supra Concilium Aeneas Sylvius sen Pius 2. L. 1. de Gestis Concil Basil. Et illâ—… imprimis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…nes qui aliquo numero sâ—… Concilio subjiciâ—…nt Ibid. in fascic rerum Expetend fol. 5. 〈◊〉 autem Papam esse non solùm supra Concilium Generale sed Vniversam Ecclesiam est propositio ferè de Fide Bellar. L. 2. de Concil c. 17. 〈◊〉 1. No nor was he held superiour to the Councell Therefore the ancient Church never accounted or admitted him a Iudge no net with a Councell much lesse without it Secondly it will not downe with me that his Pastorall Iudgement should be Infallible especially since some of them have been as * Quum hoc tempore nullus sit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fâ—…nd est qui sacras Litâ—…ras dâ—…dicerit quâ—… fronte aliquis eorum docere audebit quod non didicerit Arnulph in Concil Rheâ—…nsi Nam câ—… constet plures eorum adeò illiteratos esse ut Grammaticam penitùs ignorarent qui sit ut Sacras Literas interpretari possint Alphons à Castro L. 1. advers Hâ—… c. 4. versùs medium Edit Paris 1534. For both that at Antwerpe An. 1556. and that at Paris An. 15â—… 〈◊〉 beene in Purgatorie And such an Ignorant as these was Pope Iohn the foure and twentieth Platiâ—… 〈◊〉 Vitae ejus Et § 33. Nu. 6. Ignorant as many that can but read the Scripture Thirdly I cannot admit this neither though hee doe most cunningly thereby abuse his Readers That any thing hath been said by me out of which it can justly be inferred That there 's no Infallible certainty of Faith to bee expected on earth For there is most Infallible certainty of it that is of the Foundations of it in Scripture and the Creeds And 't is so clearely delivered there as that it needs no Iudge at all to sit upon it for the Articles themselves And so entire a Body is this one Faith in it selfe as that the †Resolutio Occham est Quod nec tota Ecclesia net Concilium Generale nec Summus Pontifex potest facere Articulum quod non fuit Articulus Sed Ecclesia bene determinat de Propositionibus Catholicis de quibus erat dubium c. Ia. Almain in 3 Sent. D. 25. q. unicâ Dub. 3. Sicut ad ea quae spectant ad Fidem nostram nequaquam â—…x voluntate humana dependent non potest Summus Pontifex nec Ecclesia ae Assertione non verâ veram nec de non falsâ falsam facere it à non potest de non Catholicâ Catholicam facere nec de non Haretica Hareticam Et ideo non potest â—…ovum Articulum facere nec Articulum Fidei tollere Quoniam sicut Veritates Catholicae absque omni approbatione Ecclesiae ex naturâ rei sunt immutabiles immutabilitèr verae it à sunt immutabilitèr Catholica reputandae Similitèr sicut Hareses absque omni reprobatione damnatione sunt falsae it à absque omni reprobatione sunt Haereses reputanda c. Et posteà Patet ergo quod nulla Veritas est Catholica ex approbatione Ecclesiae vel Papae Gab. Biel. in 3. Sâ—…nt Dist. 25. q. unica Art 3. Dub. 3. versùs sinem Whole Church much lesse the Pope hath not power to adde one Article to it nor leave to detract any one the least from it But when Controversies arise about the meaning of the Articles or Superstructures upon them which are Doctrines about the Faith not the Faith it selfe unlesse where they be immediate Consequences then both in and of these a a §. 26. Nu. 1. Lawfull and free Generall Councell determining according to Scripture is the best Iudge on earth But then suppose uncertainty in some of these superstructures it can never be thence concluded That there is no Infallible certainty of the Faith it selfe But 't is time to end especially for me that have so Many Things of Weight lying upon me and disabling me from these Polemicke Discourses beside the Burden of sixty five yeares complete which drawes on apace to the period set by the Prophet David Psal. 90. and to the Psal. 90. 10. Time that I must goe and give God and Christ an Account of the Talent committed to my Charge In which God for Christ Iesus sake be mercifull to me who knowes that however in many Weaknesses yet I have with a faithfull and single heart bound to his free Grace for it laboured the Meeting the Blessed Meeting of Truth and Peace in his Church and Psal. 85. 10. which God in his own good time will I hope effect To Him be all Honour and Praise for ever Amen FINIS