Title to it by Eating Flesh on Fasting-days 'T is the same thing as to the Place Command them to Church They will tell you There is no Inherent Holiness in the Walls The Hearts of the Saints are the Temples of the Lord Is not God to be found in a Parlour as well as in a Steeple-house Finally What have they to say for all This But that This is One Man's Judgment That Another's This or That may be indifferent to you but not to me To conclude What One Man urges All may and in All Cases as well as in Any Which has brought us once again to an indeterminable Liberty The last Resort of all the Champions of your Cause if they be followed home Now if you can assign any other Arbitrator of this Matter then the Civil Power do it If you cannot let us proceed N. C. Go forward then SECT IV. Thâ—… BOUNDS of Toleration And the Error of making Fundamentals and Non-Fundamentals to be the Measure of it C. IN the Question of Toleration says a Learned Prelate the Foundation of Faith Good Life and Government is to be secured Wherein is comprised a Provision and Care that we may live as Christians toward God As Members of a Community toward one another and as Loyal Subjects toward our Sovereign If you 'l take This for the Standard of your Toleration we have no more to do but to apply Matters in Controversie to the Rules of Christianity Good Manners and Government and to entertein or reject all Pretensions thereafter as we find them Agreeable or Repugnant to Religion Morality and Society N. C. Uery well stated truly I think C. All the Danger is the falling to pieces again when we come to bring This and That to the Test. For if we differ at last upon the Application of Particular Points and Actions to the General Heads of Faith and Government already laid down and agreed upon We shall yet lose our selves in Uncertainty and Confusion N. C. There will be no fear of That if we tye up our selves to Fundamentals C. What do you mean by Fundamentals N. C. There are Fundamentals of Faith that bind Us as we are Christians And there are Fundamentals of Practice that oblige us as we are Members of a Community From These Fundamentals there lies no Appeal to Conscience In other Matters which we look upon as non-Non-Fundamental we think it reasonable to Desire a Toleration C. This Distinction has a fair Appearance but there is no trusting to it First it proposes a thing neither Practicable nor Reasonable which is The Uniting of all People under one Common Bond of Fundamentals What possibility is there of attaining such an Agreement among so many Insuperable Diversities of Judgment as reign in Mankind Insomuch that what is a Fundamental Truth to One is a Fundamental Error to Another and Every Man is ready to abide the Faggot for his own Opinion It is also very unreasonable to exact it God Almighty does not require the same Fundamentals from all Men alike But Much from Him to whom Much is given and Little from Him to whom Little And from All according to their differing Degrees and Measures of Grace and Knowledg You will likewise find your self under great Uncertainty about the Stating of your Fundamentals For divers Circumstances of Little or No value in Themselves become Fundamental in respect of their Consequences As for Instance That Christ died for Sinners I presume shall be one Article of your Faith But whether upon Mount Calvary or some other part of the Neighbourhood seems of no great Moment as to the Main of Our Salvation And yet he that denies that Our Saviour suffer'd upon Mount Calvary puts as great an Affront upon the Veracity of the Holy Ghost in the Gospel as He which denies that he suffer'd upon the Cross. N. C. I give it for Granted that from some more is required from others less In proportion to their Differing Gifts and Graces But then there are some Principles so Essential to Christianity and so clear in Themselves as to admit of no Dispute C. Saving That Grand Foundation of Our Faith that Iesus Christ is come in the Flesh and that Whosoever confesses that Iesus Christ is the Son of God God dwelleth in Him and He in God Saving I say That Radical Principle which if we disbelieve we are no longer Christians There is scarce One Point that has not been subjected to a Controversie If you reduce your Fundamentals to This Scantling Your Creed will lie in a very Narrow Compass But your Toleration will be Large Enough if you are at Liberty for the rest Touching the Clearness of them I do not comprehend it For Supernatural Truths hold no Proportion at all with the Ordinary Motions of Humane Reason If They be so clear Tell us What they are Where we shall look for them and How we shall know them when we have found them N C. Where should we look for the Foundation of our Faith but in the New-Testament of Jesus Christ C. But still we do not all read the Bible with the same Spectacles To draw to an Issue Generals conclude nothing so long as we are left at Freedom to wrangle about Particulars and you will find much surer footing upon the Foundations of Establish'd Law then upon the Whimseys of Popular Speculation To my thinking the Doctrine and Discipline of the Church of England as it is settled by Acts of Parliament with other Legal Constitutions for the Peace and Order of the Government are every whit as competent a Provision for the Good of the Publique as your new Fundamentals N. C. The Point is not as you seem to understand it a Competition between Our Fundamentals of Notion and Yours of Law But an Inquiry concerning the Limits of a Iustistable Toleration C. Very Good And you refer us to your Distinction of Fundamentals and Non-Fundamentals as to a Rule how far we are at Liberty and wherein we are Bounded But This will not do the work and I have spent the more words about it because I find This Distinction the Ordinary Retreat of Your Party The Truth of it is there 's not One of a Hundred of you but takes This Question by the wrong Handle You make it a Question of Conscience and Religion What may be Tolerated and what not Whereas the thing falls properly under a Consideration of State In Matters not to be Tolerated as in Articles of Religion The Magistrate is positively bound up In other Cases He may chuse whether he will Tolerate or Restrain That is to say with a perpetual Regard to the Qâ—…iet and Security of the Publique Where Particulars may be relieved without Inconvenience to Communities it is well But otherwise Private Consciences weigh little in the Scale against Political Societies And Toleration is only so far allowable as it complies with the Necessities and Ends of Government N. C. That is to say according to your first
and the People Which of the Two shall Determine upon That Congruity and Convenience Your Limited Toleration too stands or falls upon the Same Bottem with Your Comprehension That is to say Who shall Iudge of the Sound Belief and Good Life of the Pretendents to That Indulgence As to your Connivence You say Nothing of it your self and I shall Reflect as little upon it Let me only Observe Upon the Whole that if you had really a Mind to set Us right Methinks You should not Trifle Us with these Ambiguities and Amusements But rather endeavour by some Pertinent Intelligible and Practicable Proposition to bring Us to a better Understanding Say What Injunctions You would have abated Name the Parties You would Recommend for their Importance of Interests Congruity of Principles Sound Faith and Good Life Teach us how to know these Qualities Where to look for Them and Who shall Iudge of Them Let it be made out That the Present Sollicitors for Tender Consciences are duly Authorized and Commission'd to Act as the Trustees of the Respective Parties Do This and Matters may be brought yet to a Comfortable Issue But so long as You place the Conditions of your Indulgence out of the Reach of Ordinary Proof and indeed of Humane Knowledg Every Man that is Excluded shall dispute his Title to the Comprehension without any Possibility of being Confuted To the Scandal of Religion and to the Perpetual Trouble Both of King and People N. C. To set forth the Propounded Latitude in the Particular Limits thereof were Presumptuous both in Reference to Superiors and to the Party Concerned in it C. As if it were not a greater Presumption to Alienate the Affections of the People from their Superiors by Reflectings upon the Iniquity of the Government then by the Tender of some Rational Medium of Accord to Dispose the Hearts of Superiors to a Compliance with the Prayers and Necessities of the People But there is more in these Generalities and Râ—…serves then the Multitude are well aware of and I am afraid it will be as hard a matter to bring you to an Agreement about the Pâ—…rticular Parties to be Tolâ—…rated as about the Model it self SECT XI The Non-Conformists demand a Toleration for No Body knows WHOM or WHAT C. THe Non-Conformists are the Party that desire a Toleration Pray let me ask ye What are their Opinions What are their Names For I presume you will not expect a Toleration for No Body knows What or Whom Are they all of a Mind If They were Tolerated Themselves Would They Tolerate One Another Are They come to any Resolution upon Articles Are They agreed upon any Model of Accommodation Do They know What They would be At Or is it in the Wit of Man to Contrive a Common Expedient to Oblige them N. C. There 's no Body says that they are All of a Mind Or that it is pâ—…ssible to please them all Or Reasonable to Endâ—…avour it There are Divers among them whose Principles will never endure any Order either in Church or State But what is the Sober Part the Worse for these Extravagants Those I mean who are ready to Iustifie themselves even according to the Strictness of your own Measures C. If You are for such a Toleration as shall Exclude the Wild and Ungovernable Sects of Dissenters How comes it that in Your Writings and Argumentations You still plead the General Cause of Non-Conformists without any Exception or Distinction N. C. You are not to fasten a Charge of this Quality upon us that have already submitted Our selves Not only to the Moderation of a Limited Indulgence but to your own Conditions also under that very Limitation C. This You have done I must confess in General Terms But still I say as to Particulars Your Discourses are of such a Frame and Biass as to give Credit and Encouragement to Every Sect of the Whole Party N. C. I am of a Perswasion but not of a Party and whatsoever my Perswasion be it is Moderate Catholick and Pacifick C. And so is every Man's if his own Word may be taken for his own Perswasion But why aâ—…e ye so Nicâ—… and Cautious in the owning of a Particular Way and Profession and yet so Frank and Open in a Clamor for the Whole Party You Complain that you are persecuted and yet Obstruct the Means of your own Relief Some Ye say are to be Indulged Others Not. How shall Authority Distinguish of Which Number You your selves are so long as You remain under this Concealment Are You for the Presbyterians N. C. I am not ashamed of their Company that are Commonly called by That Name Yet I have no Pleâ—…sure in such Nâ—…mes of Distinction Neither my Design nor my Principles engage me to maintein the Presbyterial Government C. Are You Inâ—…endent then N. C. Neither But yet I am as I told you for Tolerating Thâ—…se of Sound Faith and Good Life That have taken up sâ—…me Principles of Church-Government lâ—…ss Congruous to National Settlement C. What Do you think of the Anabaptists Brownists Quakers c N C. Why truly So it is That Prudent and Pious Men may be of Exceeding Narrow Principles about Church-Order and Fellowship Toward Whom Christian Charity pleadeth for Indulgence and We hope Political Prudence doth not gainsay it C. So that you are FOR All Parties but not OF Any Which Genâ—…rality gives to Understand that your Business is rather a Confederacy then a Scruple N. C. Make That Good if you can SECT XII The Conjunct Importunity of the Non-Conformists for a Toleration is not grounded Upon Matter of CONSCIENCE N. C. YOu are the first Person certainly that ever undertook to make Proof of a Conscience C. And yet Our Saviour tells Us in This very Case of Hypocrisie that the Tree may be known by its Fruits But however the best way of Proving a Thing Feasible is the Doing of it The Non-Conformists refuse Communion with the Church What is it They boggle at N. C. They do esteem the Ceremonies an Excess in the Worship of God Pag. 31. And Dissent from the Present Establishment of Religion only in things relating to Outward Order and Worship Pa. 12 About the Choice of some Peculiar Ways of Worship Pa. 12. But as to the English Reformation Established by Law They heartily Embrace it and Assent to the Doctrine of Faith conteined in the Articles of the Church of England Pa. 22. They have no New Faith to Declare No New Doctrine to Teach No Private Opinions to Divulge No Point or Truth to Profess which hath not been Declared Taught Divulged and Esteemâ—…d as the Common Doctrine of the Church of England ever since the Reformation Pa. 11. They come up to a Full Agreement in all Material Things with Them from Whom they Dissent Pa. 30. C. If They Agree in all Material Things it follows that they Divide about Matters Inconsiderable and Break the Order Peace
Candour which I expected from You. But the Main Stress of your Argument lies against the Whole Party of the Non-Conformists And in effect against any Toleration at all with little or no Regard to those Accommodable Points that might have brought the Matter in Difference to some sort of Composure C. It is very True That I am utterly against Tolerating the Whole Party as a Thing of Certain Inconvenience to Religion and Government and to the Ruine no less of your selves then of the Publique Will Presbytery ever satisfie the Independents Conscience Or will Liberty any better suit with the Presbyterians And yet you could both of you joyn with the Directory against the Common Prayer with the Authority of the Pretended Assembly against That of the Church wherein you have given Proof to the World that you were not United upon any Consideration of Conscience but with a Design upon a Common Booty Ye overturn'd the Government Divided the Spoil Enrich't your selves Embroiled every thing and Settled Nothing And yet in those Days there was no Act of Uniformity to hinder you This is enough to make Evident that the Non-Conformists are Intolerable in Conjunction But if you think fit to make a Tryal how far any sort of them may agree with our Standard of Toleration Apart Plead you the Cause of the Presbyterians and let your Brother Independent here that has been a Witness to our whole Debate take up the Cudgels for his own Party Not forgetting that In the Question of TOLERATION the Foundation of FAITH GOOD LIFE and GOVERNMENT is to be Secur'd N. C. According to what Latitude are we to understand that which you call the Foundation of FAITH C. According to the Latitude of the APOSTLES CREED wherein are conteined All the Articles of Simple Faith which are Necessary to be Explicitly Believed And whatsoever was found by Them to be Necessary and Sufficient to Salvation continues so still and ought to be so Received and Acknowledged by Us without insisting upon Deductions and Consequences as Points of Prime and Fundamental Necessity though Occasionally and Obliquely they become Necessary too This is the Word of Faith which we Preach that if thou shalt Confess with thy Mouth the Lord Iesus and shalt believe in thy Heart that God hath raised him from the Dead thou shalt be saved Here 's the Foundation of FAITH And in That of GOOD LIFE respect is to be had to Morality that nothing be Tolerated to the Encouragement of Loosness Sensuality and Dissolution of Manners As there is an Absolute Necessity of Providing against Doctrines and Opinions of this Quality so I think there will be no great Difficulty either of Discovering or of Suppressing them For they are of a Condition so Notorious that they ly open to all People and then so Odious they are by reason of the Gross Impiety and Scandal that they have no Friends upon the Face of the Earth for their own sakes I mean but the profest Enemies Christianity and Nature It is another Case when they are made use of in Subserviency to a Faction So that you may save your selves the Trouble of Catechising your Brethren upon These two Points and rather spend your Time upon the remaining Caution for Securing the Government which will be much more to Our Purpose For the Matter we are now upon is a Question rather of Policy then of Religion Toleration Discuss'd BETWIXT A PRESBYTERIAN AND AN INDEPENDENT SECT XXV An Enquiry upon a Short and Impartial Survey of the Rise Progress and Issue of the War raised by the Two Houses in 1641. Whether were more Criminal The PRESBYTERIANS or the INDEPENDENTS Presb. IN all our Arguments and Pleas for Toleration we are still hit in the Teeth as in Bar to our Demands with Dangerous Practises and Opinions The Murther of the Late King The Over-turning of the Government and that we have a mind to serve the Son as we did the Father Now forasmuch as the Fact is undeniable and truly the Exception but Reasonable as to those that did it We are first to clear our selves of that Execrable Fact wherein I am content to become an Undertaker for the Presbyterians And to speak afterward to the Iustification of our Principles and Opinions Indep Give me leave then to Plead the Cause of the Independents and to observe to you in the first place that the Scotch Non-Conformists under King Iames were Totally Presbyterian and so were the English Puritans under Queen Elizabeth Presb. Were the Anabaptists Familists and Brownists that started up in Those Days Presbyterians Indep Some Dutch Anabaptists came over indeed in 1560 but one Proclamation scatter'd them Immediately And then for the Familists and Brownists you speak of Alas They gave the Executioner more Trouble then the Government and were Supprest as soon as Detected But the Formal and United Confederacy was still Presbyterian and you must overthrow all the Memorials and Records of Those Times to gainsay it Briesly If you look forward you will find the Presbyterians again under King Iames at Hampton Court The Presbyterians again in the several Parliaments under King Charles the First and so the same Hand still to the beginning of the Scottish Broils in 1637. which was but the Midwifry of the Plot they had been so long a Hammering Presb. You make nothing it seems of the Turbulent Independents that went away to New England Holland and other Parts beyond the Seas with all the Clamour and â—…ancour Imaginable against the Government Indep Not to Justifie them in their Clamour I must yet recommend their Departure as a fair Testimony that they withdrew upon Conscience For by this Secession they put themselves out of Condition to carry on a Faction Whereas The Presbyterians that had a further Design in Prospect stood their Ground watch'd their Advantages and gain'd their End Presb. All this is but Talk without Proof Indep It will be granted I suppose that the Scottish Tumults in 1637. and the Râ—…bel ion upon the neck of them in 1638 were advanc'd upon a Presbyterian accompt and consequently that Those were of the same Leven that Voted them Good Subjects and Money for their peins and Adopted them their DEAR BRETHREN for so doing Were not the Principals of the Faction in the Long Parliament every Man of them Presbyterian Were not the Army and Assâ—…mbly Presbyterian And all their Votes Actions and Conclusions Influenc'd accordingly Who were they that Invited the Scots into England the Second time Nov 7. 164â—… That Imposed the Covenant Prosecuted the War under the Countenance of it and made it the Test of Discrimination betwixt the Malignant and Well affected Parties That Settled the Directory Nay the Presbytery it self Were not These Presbyterians Who were they but Presbyterians that stripp't the King of his Regalities and Revenues Commission'd an Army against him Fought him Pursu'd him and in fine brought him to utter Ruine Presb. You will find the Late King of another
Convention Look now a little into the Scotch Affairs and observe the Growth of the Non-Conformists Demands from one thing to another till in the End by virtue of what the King Granted them they possest themselves of all the Rest. In their Tumults says his Majesty they complein'd only of the Service Book In their Petition exhibited to the Counsel they complein'd of the Service-Book and Canons In their Covenant they complein of and Abjure the Five Articles of Perth although Establish't first by a General Assembly and Then by Parliament After This they complein of the High Commission And Then of Prelates Sitting in Civil Judicatories Hereupon His Majesty Commissions Marquis Hamilton with full Power and Authority to Conclude and Determine all such Things as should be found for the Good Quietness and Peace of that Kingdom Directing him also to take the mildest Course that might be for the Calming of those Commotions And what Effect had this Peaceable Inclination of His Majesty upon the Covenanters but to blow them up into more Seditious and bolder Practises against the King's Authority and the Publique Peace They pursue their Demands and Clamour for a Free General Assembly and a Parliament His Majesty gives them all their Askings Indicts a Free General Assembly and a Parliament Dischâ—…rges the Service-Book the Canons High-Commission The urâ—…ing of the Five Articles of Perth Commands the Subscribing of the Confession of Faith and the Band thereto annexed in the very Form which they pretended to Impose And offers them an Act of Indemnity for what was past In all which Condescentions the King's Patience and Mercy only served to heighten and confirm those Men in their Undertaking and to expose his Royal Dignity to Contempt In the conclusion the King had so far gratified their Importunities that they had nothing left to Quarrel upon but His Majesties refusal to Abolish Episcopacy and to admit the Authority of their Lay-Elders From hence they brake out into open Rebellion and when the King had them directly at his Mercy upon the Interview of the two Armies near Berwick such was his Tenderness that upon their Supplication for a Treaty he Trusted them again and Concluded a Pacification whereof the Covenanters observ'd not so much as One Article Upon his Return to London His Majesty as is elswhere observed passes the Triennial Bill Abolishes the Star-Chamber and High Commission Court Passes an Act for the Continuance of the Parliament Not to insist upon the several other Concessions concerning Ship-money Forests and Stannary Courts Tunnage and Poundage Knighthood c. Now in Requital of these Benefits the Faction Claps up and Prosecutes his Majesties Friends Prefers and Enlarges his Enemies Rewards the Scots Entertains their Commissioners Votes Them their Dear Brethren for Invading Us Calls in all Books and Proclamations against them They take away the Bishops Votes Impose a Protestation upon the People Take away the Earl of Strafford's Life Charge Twelve of the Bishops with Treason Declare the King's Proclamations to be False Scandalous and Illegal Keep his Majesty out of his own Towns and Seize his Arms and Ammunition They present Him with Nineteen Propositions for the Resignation of his Royal Authority They Vote a General and Raise an Army against him They Usurp the Power of the Militia and give the King Battel Levy Moneys and Declare the Queen Guilty of Treason After all These Usurpations upon the Civil Power They are put to 't to bring the Cause of Religion once again upon the Stage They enter into a Covenant and call in the Scots again They Abolish the Common-Prayer secure the Person of the King Share the Revenues of the Church and Crown They Sequester Banish and Imprison his Majesties Adherents and in the Conclusion Sell Depose and Murder their Soveraign This was the Fruit of that Pious and Unfortunate Prince his Clemency and Indulgence Now to bring the Instance home to the present Times What could be more Pious Gracious or Obliging then His Majesties Declaration concerning Ecclesiastical Affairs in Favour of the Non-Conformists All that was possible for the King to do in Consistence with Conscience Honour and the Peace of his Dominions His Majesty has therein given them a frank Assurance of with their Lives and Estates over and above in the Act of Oblivion And are they one jote the Quieter for all This No but the Worse for no sooner was the King's Tenderness in That Particular made Publique but the Generality even of those that had lately Entred into a Regular and Dutiful Compliance with the Orders of the Church started into a new Revolt which proves sufficiently the Benefit and Necessity of a strict Rule and the hazzard of a Toleration For rather then abide the Penalty of the Act they could Conform but upon the least Glimpse of a Dispensation they Relâ—…pse into a Schism Neither do I find that they were less Troublesom before the Act of Uniformity when they Preach'd at Randome then they have been since Nor to say the Truth that they have much more Cause of Compleint Now then they had Then For what are they the worse for a Penalty that is never Executed But if you will have a True Measure of their Moderation and Good Nature I pray'e take notice of their Proceedings upon His Majesties Commission for the Review of the Book of Common-Prayer We will appoint says His Majesty in his Declaration concerning Ecclesiastical Affairs an Equal Number of Learned Divines of Both Perswasions to Review the same and to make such ALTERATIONS as shall be thought most NECESSARY So that the Alterations were to be agreed upon by BOTH PARTIES and found likewise to be NECESSARY Now instead of Alterations joyntly agreed upon They Publish a Complete Liturgy of their own indeed a New Directory but under the Title of The REFORMATION of the Liturgie which in all their Books signifies ABOLITION Give me the favour next to observe upon some of their NECESSARY Alterations They have turn'd WEDDED Wife into MARRIED DOEST THOU Believe into DO YOU Believe All this I STEDFASTLY Believe into All this I UNFEIGNEDLY Believe These are some of the Important Scruples that are cast into the Balance against the Unity of the Church and the Peace of the Kingdom What is This but to make Sport with Authority and Conscience Laws must be Suspended Princes Vilified and Importun'd because forsooth the Godly Party may not be Govern'd by Laws of their own making Nay by Words of their own chusing too So that we are like to have a Schism for Syllables as well as for Ceremonies For what is the Difference betwixt WEDDED and MARRIED but that the One wears the Stamp of the Law-Makers and the Other of the Law-Menders Is it not now evident that they are the worse for good usage And that they have ever been so You see the Effects of keeping to a Rule in Queen Elizabeth and King Iames And we have since felt to our Cost