baptisme May we not iustly ranke them with those luke-warme Revel 3. 15. 16. Laodiceans that were neither hot nor cold fish nor flesh And may not they certainely looke for the euent which our Lord Iesus threatneth that he will spue them out of his mouth It is high time therefore for all men 1. Reg. 18. 21. to resolue themselues whether they will follow God or Baal Christ or Antichrist and not to continue halting betwixt two opinions I cannot reasonably conceiue whence this want of resolution should proceed in them that are not desperately carelesse or profainely politicke but onely from ignorance of the necessity of being separated from the church of Rome The clouds of this ignorance I desire and purpose to scatter by the light of truth that all men which will not shut their eyes against the beames thereof may see both the way wherein they are and the place it leades them too Now to the end I may the bettor vnderstand my selfe and be vnderstood by them that seeke for resolution if they doubt or confirmation if they be resolued I will labour to speak as plaine as the matter will giue me leaue to doe desiring to haue that I deliuer rather iudged of thèn wondered at And because we are accused by the Church of Rome sometimes of heresie sometimes of schisme I will apply my disputation and discourse to the iustifying of our forefathers in separating from the popish religion and our selues in continuing that separation Wherefore that we may proceed orderly and plainely I propound the matter to be disputed in these termes Euery man is bound vpon paine of damnation to refuse the faith of the Church of Rome This proposition or sentence hath two things in it to be proued That 1. The faith of the Church of Rome is to be refused That 2. It is to be refused vpon paine of damnation These two I will handle seuerally First by shewing the necessitie of that refusall Secondly by setting out the penaltie if that faith be not refused And that nothing may be wanting which may helpe the simplest to conceiue and iudge aright of that which shall be spoken before I come to debate the point I will declare the meaning of the termes in which I haue deliuered it as shortly as I can with plainenesse By the faith of the Church of Rome I meane the Doctrine of the said Church deliuered by it in certaine Articles propositions or sentences to be beleeued by all men that desire to be saued as matters reuealed by God to that end This their faith I consider as one individuall or singular thing For although it may indeed be devided into many seuerall Articles of which it consists and is as it were compacted or framed yet it is conceiued by themselues as one intire body because they are all knit together by the same bond namely by being assented to or beleeued vpon one and the same ground or reason which is the spirit of that body and are all to be receiued a like vnder paine of the same Auathema or curse if they be not receiued and this is especially to be obserued as the maine point in this iuquir That the faith of the Church of Rome is so to be conceiued of it appeareth manifestly by Mr. Fisher the Iesuites Mr. Fisher Trealise of saith vnder the name of AD. treatise of Faith vnder the name of A. D. wherein the whole fourth chapter is spent to shew that Faith must be intire Faith saith he must be intire whole and sound in all points and it is not sufficient to beleeue stedfastly some points mis-beleeuing or not beleeuing obstinately other some or any one The reason thereof followes a little after where he saith that Not to beleeue any one point whatsoeuer which God by reualing it doth testisie to bo true and which by his Church he hath commanded vs to beleeue must needs be damnable as being a not able iniury to Gods verity and a great disobedience to his will To the same purpose writes the titular Archbishop of Spalato that All Articles of faith determined by Spalato Consil 〈◊〉 pag 20. the Church are fundamentall and that none of them may be denied without heresie By this it comes to passe that whosoeuer is a true member of the Church of Rome must as stedfastly and resolutely beleeue the least point of reliques and Images deliuered by the Councell of Trent as the greatest mysteries of the God-head the Trinitie the Redomption of the world by the Lord Iesus and that if he denie any of the former he is no lesse an hereticke then if he did refuse to beleeue any of the latter yea though he beleeue all they propound to be beleeued saue some one small matter he is for want of beleeuing that one if he know the Church propounds it to be beleeued a miscreant and mis-beleeuer the reason of this is that if the Church may erre in one thing it may erre in an other and so can be no sure foundation of faith But what is it to refuse the faith of the Church of Rome surely nothing else but not to acknowledge the doctrine deliuered by the Church of Rome to be true but to abhoire it as false I speake not of euery particuler point but of all ioyntly together according to my former exposition For I doe freely and willingly confesse that the Papists hold many great misteries of diuinitie truely and soundly wherein also we agree with them but yet I say we may not at any hand receiue their faith for true as it is deliuered by them for one intire bodie of diuinitie reuealed by God to be acknowledged by all men that will be saued So then to refuse the faith of the Church of Rome is not to beleeue that it is true or to beleeue tht it is false and this I say is required of euery man vpon paine of damnation The exposition of the second point vpon paine of damnation I referre to the place where it is to be handled after I haue dispatched that which is first to be debated CHAP. III. Of the Authors that haue formerly hold the proposition handled in this Treatise THere are not a few that looke more after the man then after the matter and inquire rather who is the writer then what is written Therefore least the meannesse of my condition and abilities should bring some preiudice to the truth I search for giue me leaue I pray you in the first place to shew that the point I intend by Gods gracious assistance to proue is no new conceit or deuise of mine but a matter aduisedly resolued of and set down by more then one of the worthies of our church and nation Amongst whom the first in time and authoritie was that rare and pretious Iewel Bishop of Salisburie They B. Iewel des apol paro ◠cap 22. divis 1. haue no cause saith he of the Papists to complaine of our departing and to call
RVNNE FROM ROME OR A TREATISE SHEWING THE necessitie of Separating from the Church of Rome Disputed in these Termes EVERIE MAN IS bound vpon paine of Damnation to refuse the Faith of the Church of Rome By ANTONY WOTTON B. D. REVEL 18. 4. Come out of her my people that ye be not Partakers of her sinnes and that ye receiue not of her plagues LONDON Printed by W. J. for Nicholas Bourne and are to be sold at his Shop at the South side of the Royall-Exchange 1624. TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE EDWARD LORD DENNY OF WALTHAM MY ESPECIALL GOOD LORD Right Honorable WHen the great God of heauen and earth proclaimed by his Prophet to Eli 1. Sam. 2. 30 that he would honor them that honour him he therein implied both an example and a charge for all men to do the like Therefore is this actioÌ„ of honouring theÌ„ that honour God one of those whereof the holy Ghost made choise Psal 15. 4. that he might by them giue vs notice of those men which shal abide in the Tabernacle of the Lord and dwell in his holy hill It is my desire to performe this dutie to God by this seruice to your Lordship wherein I feele and confesse that I receiue far more then I can possibly giue For by desiring to honour our Lordship for your zeale in honouring God I encrease mine owne hope that I am of their number who haue obtained already some part of his grace and shall hereafter haue entrance into his glorie Giue me leaue noble Lord to forget in this respect my particular obligation to your Honour for your continuall bountie to me and good opinion of me that I haue an vnfained desire to maintaine the truth of God profest in this famous Church of England against the subtill and dangerous errors of the Romish Synagogue For I truly and willingly professe that the consideration of your Lordships feruent zeale for the glory of God zealous loue of his truth and true detestation of Popery haue so possest and rauisht my heart with a longing after your Honour that it will not suffer any other of your noble vertues though many and great either to come into comparison with it or to haue the least place in my thoughts while it is in presence This in my apprehension is as much to true honour as in Demosthenes opinion pronuntiation was to true eloquence Let them that will dote vpon their worldly greatnesse as the Peacocke is in loue with his owne feathers It is true honour to be honourable in his sight who onely is worthy of honour and yet graciously vouchsafeth to giue and to command that honour be giue to his faithfull seruants This is the foundation of your Lordships honour in my heart and vpon this ground wil I daily offer vp my poore prayers to God for your good Lordship your noble and truly vertuous Lady and hopefull of spring that it would please him to shewer downe euery day more more the comfortable dew of his grace and blessing vpon euery one of you to the increase of all honour in this life and happinesse in the life to come through Jesus Christ our Lord In whom I shall euer be at your Lordships seruice to be commanded Antony Wotton Tower-Hill May 3. 1624. TO THE CHRISTIAN READER THe Councell of Trent confirmed by the Pope is the chiefe Oracle of the Church of Rome from it she receiues all doctrines necessarie to be beleeued vnto saluation Romish Catholikes hold it for a principle that whatsoeuer is deliuered therein for doctrine is an article of faith and must stedfastly be beleeued vpon paine of damnation he that doth not is pronounced an Hereticke and is made lyable to a supposed heauy curse What little reason there is that Papists should yeeld such blind obedience to the Canons of that Councell may appeare by a plaine but true testimonie which was giuen thereunto by a Bishop a member of that Church and Councell who was present thereat This testimonie I haue thought good to prefixe to this my Treatise because in it I dispute against the doctrine of faith deliuered in the said Councell Andraeas Dudithius Bishop of Quinquecclesiae Quinquecclesiae is acitty in Lungarie calleâ— in German â—unsâ—â—rchin in Turkish â—nden or 〈◊〉 and Embassadour in the Councell of Trent for Maximilan the second Emperour in an Epistle to the said Emperour wherein he deliuereth his iudgement about granting the Cup to the Laitie and the marriage of Priests writes thus of the Councell of Trent WHat good could be done in that Councell where voyces were taken by number not by weight If argument if reason might haue preuailed if we had had some and those not many to take part with vs though we should haue bin but a few yet had vve ouerthrowne the greÌ„at forces of our aduersaries but when all stood vpon number wherein we were much inferiour we could not get the better though our cause were the better The Pope was able to set an hundreth of his against euery one of ours and if an hundreth were not sufficient he could vpon a sundaine haue created a thousand to succour them that were readie to faint and perish Therefore we might see euery day hungrie and needie Bishops and these for the most part beardlesse younkers and wastfully ryotous come in flocks to Trent hired to giue their voices according to the Popes humour vnlearned indeed and foolish but of good vse to him for their audaciousnesse and impudencie When these fellowes were ioyued to the Popes old slatterers then iniquitie got the vpper hand and triumphed neither could any thing be decreed but according to their liking who thought it the highest point of religion to defend the power and royot of the Pope There was in the Councell a graue and learned man who could not endure this indignitie but the Councell by terrour threatning and bayting him as one that was no good Catholike drew him to yeeld to that which he did no way like of In a word things are brought to that passe by their dishonesty who came prepared and made for the nonce that it seemed to be a Councell not of Bishops but of puppies not of men but of images who as it is reported of Daedalus Statues were moued not by their owne but by other mens nerues and muscles Those hireling Bishops most of them were like Countrey Bagpipes which must haue breath blowne into them before they can sound The holy Ghost had nothing to doe with that Couenticle all things were argued by human pollicy which was wholly employed in maintaining the immoderate indeed most shamelesse Lordship Domination of the Popet From thence were answers looked and wayted for as it were from the Oracles of Delphos or Dodona from thence the holy Ghost who as they brag is President of their Councell was sent shut vp in the Carriers budgets and packes who a thing worthy to be laught at when the waters were vp as it falls
vs againe to be fellowes and friends with them If we should content our selues to turne to the Pope and to his errours it should be a very dangerous matter both to kindle Gods wrath against vs and to clogge and condomne our soules for euer And in another place he speakes thus to the same purpose As for vs we haue not fallen from the Bishop of Rome cap. 20. dirts 2. vpon any matter of worldly respect but so the case stood that vnlesse we left him we could not come to Christ Dr. Reynolds another shining light of the Vniuersitie D. Renolds of Oxford shewes vs the same truth in another maner viz. in his verses vpon the third conclusion handled in the Schooles Nouemb. 3. 1579. If that ye seeke eternall life see that you Rome forsake Of the same minde was Dr. Whitaker a man for his learning whether we respect reading or iudgement knowne and approued of the Churches of Christ especially this of England We say saith he that the Church of Rome must be D. whitaker de Eccles cont qu. 6 cap. 1. forsaken of all men that desire to be saued And a little after he addes that There can be no saluation hoped for in the Church of Rome Lastlie Mr. Perkins in knowledge and zeale a worthy Scholler of so excellent a Master treading in his footsteps concludes that All those that will be saued must depart M. Pâ—rlins Reformed Chath nâ— the prolog sed Thus then and separate themselues from the faith and religion of the present Church of Rome We haue seene the iudgement of these learned and reuerend Diuines and therein the consent of both the Vniuersities Cambridge and Oxford for their bookes especially the three last were allowed for printing by the principall Doctors of the seuerall Vniuersities then resident in them neither is it to be taken for the iudgement of the Vniuersities onely but also of the whole Church as appeareth euidently by the continuance of it from time to time in the writings of these famous learned men successiuely one after another It was first propounded by that reuerend Father in defence of the Church of England to iustifie our departure from that strumpet of Babylon diuers yeares after proclaimed openly in the publike Schooles by Dr. Reynolds ratified afterwards by Dr. Whitaker in his publike lectures of Diuinitie and last of all confirmed by Mr. Perkins and by euerie one of these published in print with the approbation of our Church and State And this to say the truth hath alwayes beene the iudgement and practise of the Churches of God in all Protestant Countries euer since the last birth and infancy of reformation in this age for the space of more then an hundred yeares for what else hath beene aymed at in so many writings and disputations of Ptotestants but the iustifiing of our deparâ—ure from the Synagogue of Rome Not of a bodily departure saith Mr. Perkins in respect of cohabitation Peform chathol in Prol guâ— and presence but of a spirituÌ„all separation in respect of faith and religion It cannot then reasonly be denyed or doubted but that our Church generally holds separation from the Church of Rome to be a matter of great consequence yea of absolute necessitie especially if we remenber that euery Parish throughout the whole Land is enioyned to haue the Booke of Bishop Iewel with the rest of his workes in their seuerall Churches for all men to read and that they were all new printed to that end CHAP. IIII. wherein the necessitie of separating is proued YOu see from whom I take the point that I haue vndertaken to maintaine from the same men will I ferch the grounds of my disputation What is the reason by which these worthy learned and godly diuines did iustifie the separation of our Church and her continuing separated from the Romish faith let vs heare themselues speake We haue departed from that Church saith thereuerend Father B. Iewel whose erroâ—rs were proued and made B. Iewel Iuf. apol pag. 4. cap. 11. 〈◊〉 1. manifest to the world which Church also had alreadie departed from Gods word and yet we haue not departed so much from it selfe as from the errours thereof What errours They are generally imploÌ„yed in these words of his chap. 10. diuis 2. Ignorance errour superstition idolatâ—◠〈◊〉 inuentions and the same commonly disagreeing 〈◊〉 the holy Scriptures And againe These men haue broke â— in peeces Apolog. pâ— 5. cap 13. divis 1. all the pipes and conduites they haue stopped all the springs and choaked vp the fonntaine of liuing water with dirt and mire And againe Wee haue renounced that Church wherein vve Cap. 15. divis 2. Apol. could neither haue the word of God sincerely taught nor the Sacraments rightly administred nor the nam of God duely called vpon and wherein was nothing able to stay any wise man or one that hath consideration of his owne sasetie To conclude vve part 6. chap. 22. divis 2. haue departed from him saith that learned B. of the Pope who hath vtterly forsaken the Catholicke faith For as Dr. Bilson Dialogue â—â—t 3. Bilson saith most truely No Article of the Church of Rome wherein we dissent from them is Catholicke D. Reynolds speakes not so plaine yet giues us sufficiently to understand that he therefore concluded the Church of RomÌ„e was to be forsaken because she was no sound member of the Catholicke Church nor held the right faith Her unsoundnes he thus sets out The Church Reynolds conclu 5. of Rome is not distempered with a little ague such as hindreth not the functions of life greatly but is sicke of a canker or rather of a leâ—prosy or rather of a pestilence in so much that she is past hope of recouery unlesse our Saviour Christ the heavenly physician doe giue her wholesome medicines to purge her of permcious humors Conclus 5. And in his presace to his sixe conclusions he writes thus Sith â—â— the fellowship of the Church of Rome it was not In Preface at the 6. â—n â—asâ—on lawfull for vs either to serue God with a holy worship or to beleeue God with a holy faith as God hath commanded sâ—â—h the Church of Rome being taken with contagious diseases and a frensie did put her Counsellers to the fire friends to the sword brethren to cruell death and stained the faith of Christ with reproaches creatures with the Lords honour Gods service with Idolatry we went away from Papists not willingly as from mâ—n not vnwillingly as from heritickes But D. Whitaker and M. 〈◊〉 deeccâ—eâ— coâ—â—o 2. quist 6. cap. 1. Perkins are most plaine Wâ— affirmâ— saith D. Whitaker that the Church of Rome is to be shuned of all men and that no salvation is to be hoped for in it yea we say it is to be condâ—mâ—ed as a deepe pitt of heresy and errour M. Perkins avoucheth our departure for the same reason Perkins in prolog Resor Catho The
cause of this Separation lyeth in the Church of Rome namely the cup of abomination in the whores hand which is their haereticall and schismaticall religion Vpon this foundation of these learned men I set this frame of disputation Euery erroneous faith is to be refused The faith of the Church of Rome is an erroneous faith Therefore the faith of the Church of Rome is to be refused Can there be any question made of the first part or proposition of this reason when the holy Apostle Saint Iude exhorts all men without exception of person time or matter to striue for the faith delivered to the Saints Iudev 3. But how striue we for that faith which is the reuealed truth of God if we can be content to beleeue errours which are against the truth Yea what doe we else by holding errours for truth but adde to the diuine reuelation giuen by the Lord God himselfe contrary to his charge Deut. 4. 2. You shall put nothing to the word that I command you The second part which we call the assumption or minor Deutr. 4. 2. is that wherein all the doubt lieth for what is the Church of Rome the worse for granting that an erroneous faith is to be refused vnles their faith can be proued erroneous And whereas I say in my question and disputation erroneous rather then hereticall I doe it od of purpose because I would shunne all needlesse wrangling about the word for it seemes to many somewhat doubtfull what is properly to be called heresy For my part I can not see that any false proposition deliuered for an Article of faith can be lesse then heresie I doubt not but a man may thinke somthing to be true which is false be no heriticke buâ— he thâ— shall obstinately hold such a point for an Article of faith necessarily to be beleeued by all men vpon paine of damnation cannot for ought I see be freed from heresie As for the errours of the Papists Dr. Reynolds Dr. Whitakers and Mr. Perkins as we haue seene make no doubt to call them heresies Now that we may the better vnderstand whether the faith of the Church of Rome be erroneous or no we must enquire how the truth and falsenesse of faith is to be discerned which we cannot doe either better or otherwise then by considering how the Article of faith or proposition enioyned to be beleeued agreeth with the diuine testimonie concerning that point or Article for the diuine testimonie is the thing or rule to which the Article must be applied and by which it must be squared so that if it agree wholy with it it is true if in any part it differ from that testimonie it is false and erroneous This Sess 14. caâ— Decret de necessitate satiffaction is Decâ—ct de sacram paenitentiae can 6. description of errour and falsehood in matters of faith is warranted by the Councell of Trent where they make falsehood consist in differing from the word of God and That which differs from the institution of Christ is called an humane tradition and therefore is erroneous According to this declaration of a false and erroneous faith I proceed now to shew that the faith of the Church of Rome is false and erroneous That faith which hath a false and ertoneous foundation is false and erroneous Wherein first I take it for granted that Faith must haue an extrinsecall foundation out of the shings themfelues which are to be beleeved This outward and extrinsecall foundation is the credit and authority of him that delivereth those things for true and requires assent or agrement to them Secondly I hold it for certaine and agrred vpon by all that faith is true or false according to the foundation whereon it stands as the diuine restimonie begets a diuine faith an humane testimonie breeds an humane which may thus appeare What makes the faith of the ancient heathen and the now heathenish Turks and all sorts of Infidels who beleeue that there is but one God to be humane false and erroneous and the faith of Christians concerning the same point to be diuine and true but the diuerse foundations of these faiths the former depending vpon the coniectures and testimonies of men the other arising out of the witnesse of God himselfe To come nearer home why doe the Papists denie that wee are of their faith although they confesse wee hold the very same Articles of the Creed that they professe and aagree with them in most points of religion but for that we haue not the same foundation of our faith which they haue of theirs It is then the goodnesse or badnesse of the foundation that make the faith good or bad so that where the foundation is false the faith whatsoeuer it be cannot be true The proposition thus prooued I will adde the assumptition to it The foundation of the faith of the Church of Rome is false and erroneous For the foundation of their faith is the authority of the Pastors of their Church as it Sect. 4. Decret de edit scriptur sect praeterea is manifest by the Councell of Trent It is the office of the Church saith the Councel to giue sentence of the true meaning and sense of the Scriptures Now by the Church they meane the Pastours of the Church as their continuall practise declareth no man being suffered to giue a voice in any Councell but their Bishops whom onely they hold to be the Pastours of the Church By true sense and meaning they vnderstand the doctrine of faith which is nothing else but the Word of God truly vnderstood By the Scriptures they meane euery particular place of Scripture for if they should meane some places onely there could be no certainty in this their decree vnlesse they had determined what particular places they are whereof the Church may giue sentence These things thus declared I dispute thus They that haue the office to determine which is the true faith their authority is the foundation of Faith But the Church hath the office to determine which is the true faith as it appeares by the words of the Councell ere-while recited Therfore the authority of the Church is the foundation of their faith That the Church of Rome claimes this authority it may further appeare by those titles whcih it vsurpeth in the said Councell that The Bishop of Rome is Gods Vicar on Sess 6. de reformat cap. 1. Sess 14. de poenitentia cap. 7. Sess 7. de Baptism Can. 3. Sess 22. de sacrificio missae cap. 8 De verbo dei lib. 3. cap. 3. Sâ—ct Tota igitur Cap. 5. Sect. Ex his earth The Church of Rome is the mother and mistris of all Churches Yea euerie man may plainly see that Bellarmine teacheth the same things of the church of Rome The Church is the iudge of the true sense of the Scripture and all controuersies By Church hee vnderstands the Pope with a Councell and this he saith is expresly
shewed that they are weake and vaine so that the point is still as questionable as it was before Therfore Bellarmine is also guilty of a second begging of the question because his proofes are by-matters as doubtfull or more doubtfull then that is which he would proue by them And of this manner of begging the question speaketh the forenamed Aristole Begging of the question is when the proofe is from things lesse Prio. Analyt l. 2. Cap. 16. knowne or equally vnknowne And this is not saith Aristotle to demonstrate the question But what if we graunt Bellarmine that which he cannot proue that there was such an office yet may wee neuerthelesse deny his assumption and say that The Episcopall authority ouer the whole Church perished at Peters death Will he tell vs that it was ordained for the good of the Church What then It will not follow thereupon that it must be perpetuall vnlesse he can shew that our Lord appointed it should continue for euer by succession For the whole course of publishing the Gospell and bringing men to true faith in Christ dependeth wholly vpon the ordinance of God who being able to make any meanes effectuall to his purpose is not tyed to vse any but what please him Therefore if Bellarmine cannot shew that it was the ordinance of God that such an Episcopall function as he imagineth Peter had should be continued alwaies in the Church it is no inconuenience to hold that it perished with Peters death And of this first argument enough His second Argument is in the said twelâ—th Chapter Sect. secundo and it is thus to be disposed If in the time of the Apostles there was one supreame Gouernour of the church then there ought to be so now because the forme of the Church may not be changed seeing it is one and the same at all times But in the time of the Apostles there was one supreame Gouernour and head of the Church Therefore there ought to be so now The assumption or second part of this Syllogisme is as doubtfull as the conclusion inferred vpon it and therefore it is a begging of the question not a proofe of the former Syllogisme But were it neuer so true he were neuer the nearer for the consequence of the proposition is naught because there is no necessity that the Church should alwaies haue that office which at any time it hath had For this necessity if there were any such must spring out of the nature either of God himselfe or of the Church or depend vpon the decree of Gods will To say there is any necessity in the nature of God or of the Church which may enforce the continuall being of that which once was were absurd It remaineth then that there must be some act of Gods will by which it is decreed that whatsoeuer office hath once been in the Church shall be in it for euer as I answered numb 5. Wherefore Bellarmine must shew vs some ordinance of God for the continuance of such gouernment supposing there was once such an one or giue vs leaue to reiect it He would make good the consequence of the proposition and the proofe of it against our exception by this argument If the Church be one and the same at all times then the forme of it may not be changed But the Church is one and the same at all times Therefore the forme of it may not be changed In the antecedent part of the proposition and in the assumption by One Bellarmine meaneth essentially one by forme in the consequent part he vnderstandeth forme of gouernment According to this sense wee say the consequence of the proposition is naught for the forme of the gouernment of the church is not of the essence of the church as Bellarmine here vainly supposeth and falsly affirmes in his * Dâ— Eccles lib. 3. cap 2 Sect. Nostra autem definition of the church The assumption rightly vnderstood is true The Church indeed is alwaies one with Christ the head because of one and the same spirit in him and euery particular member of it It is also one in faith because the true faith is one But Bellarmine meaneth that the church is one and the same in respect of the gouernment and officers thereof This we deny and looke for better proofe of it from him then his bare affirmation in a matter of faith to bee beleeued vpon paine of damnation There followeth a third proofe in the some twelfth chapter Sect. tertio after this sort If the Sheepe-fould endure to the end of the world then successors to Peter in that his chiefe pastorall office must endure to the end of the world For the office of the Pastors in the nature of the thing must endure as long as the Sheepe-fould continueth because it is an ordinary and perpetuall office But the Sheepe-fold endureth to the end of the world Therefore successours to Peter in that chiefe Pastorall office must endure to the end of the world Bellarmine kepeth his custome to beg the question For here againe he taketh it for granted that Peter was Pastor of the whole church But say it were so what getteth he by it For the consequence of his proposition is naught neither can the proofe hee bringeth make it good The Sheepe-fold may endure to the end of the world and yet that pastorall Office not continue Because they doe not goe together in their nature for if they did then the one must be of the essence or being of the other as a reasonable soule and man are or arise out of the principles of the nature of the other as speech doth from the reâ—sonâ—ble soule which no man will say Neither is there any ordinance of God for the ioynt continuance of them together Bellarm. seemeth to tell vs that there is some ordinance of God for the knitting of them together For he saith in proofe of his consequence that That pastorall Office is an ordinary perpetual office as no office can be in the church but by the diuine ordination If he had shewed vs withall where we may finde that ordinance he had said somewhat to purpose Since neither he hath nor we can finde any such in the word of God he must giue vs leaue to take it for no article of faith Touching his assumption I answer that If by Sheepefold he meane a company of people separated from the world by the profession of Christian Religion and vnited together in obedience to the diuine reuelation Wee graunt that there is and shall alwaies be such a Sheepe-fold But if he dreame of any other Sheepe-fold he must proue his assumption ore we can beleeue it Yet Bellarmine hath not done but setteth vpon vs with a fresh charge in the same twelfth chapter Sect quinto which is thus in due forme Either some must succeed Peter in his Pastorall office ouer the whole church or the church must bee without an head at Peters death and after But the Church must
commission from our Lord Iesus to teach the whole Church by way of iudging and determining what is to be beleeued of all men and what is not It will bee looked for perhaps that I should proceed to the discussing of some other that are brought for the proofe of this question But I thinke it would bee but lost labour for Bellarmine who was as able as any Popish writer that hath dealt with this matter and had allowance of that he wirt especially in a point that so nearely touched the Popes free-hold if not from the Consistory immediately yet with the knowledge thereof from the office appointed for that purpose in Rome setteth vp his rest vpon that place in Iohn and telleth vs confidently that Then onely Peter receiued the keyes of the kingdome as principall Bellarm. de Rom. Pont. lib. 1. c. 12. Sect. vt autem and ordinary gouernour when he heard those words Feede my sheepe and then also as he saith the charge of the rest of the Apostles his brethren was committed to him Therefore since we require a commission for such an office and that is either here or no where to bee found to what purpose should we examine other arguments which can proue no such matter Now that we haue good reason to call for the sight of a commission by which such an office should be erected no reasonable man can doubt if he consider what himselfe would doe if any man should challenge to himselfe the authority of the Lord Chancellor or Lord Treasurer of England would he take his word without knowledge of his commission vnder the broad seale And why then should wee be so simple as in a businesse of such importance to take the word of a Cardinall for the Popes prerogatiue Master Fisher the Iesuit after some other Papists alleageth for the proofe of this commission Mat. 28. 19. Goe teach all Nations But Bellarmine hath disclaimed and disproued all commission in that place and that not without reason For he saith Then onely he receiued the keyes of the Bellar. de Rom. Pont. l. 1. c. 12. Sect. Vt autem Kingdome as principall and ordinarie gouernour when he heard Feed my sheepe In this he disclaimeth it his disproofe is that the commission Mat. 28. 19. is all one with that Ioh. 20. 21. as that which by Bellarmines confession Sect. Dices containeth power both of order and iurisdiction which is also conueyed to the Apostles Math. 28. 20. Goe teach and baptize And this Master Fisher must needs acknowledge if he will haue that place be a commission for the Popes authority As for that Iohn 20. 21. the power there was not committed seuerally to Peter alone but to all the Apostles as to Legates not to ordinary pastors as Bellarmine noteth All other Sect. Vt autem places of Scripture brought by the Papists to this purpose are of the same kind and concerne all the Apostles as well as Peter wherefore all this considered I hold it altogether needlesse to meddle with those other eight arguments of Bellarmines which indeed are of another kinde and perswade my selfe that I haue said enough of that weake foundation of the Papists faith the authority of the Church in person of the Pope for the time being Whereupon I infer my former conclusion that The saith of the Church of Rome is erroneous and false euen in the very foundation of it and therefore to bee refused and reiected of all men CHAP. XI Containing a second proofe that the faith of the Church of Rome is erroneous and false SVch as the foundation of the Romish faith is such is the faith it selfe namely false and erroneous as I will shew by the argument that followes in the seuerall parts of it If some of the Articles of the faith of the Church of Rome bee false and erroneous then the faith of that Church is false and erroneous But some of the Articles of the faith of the Church of Rome are false and erroneous Therefore the faith of the Church of Rome is false and erroneous Lest any man should hastily except against the consequence of the proposition as if I went about to proue the whole by the part which may not bee I must intreat him to remember that as I noted before in this question wee take the faith of the Church of Rome for one intire thing because of that one bond the authority of the Church or Pope by which all the parts of it are so ioyned together that they all make but one body By reason of which bond he that refuseth any one part reiecteth the whole For by that his refusall he accuseth their Church of errour and failing in determining matters of faith and so ouerthroweth the very foundation of their faith Besides the denying of any one such Article let it bee in it selfe of neuer so small importance draweth vpon the denyer that Anathema or curse which seizeth on all them which are not of the faith of the Church of Rome Wherefore I may presume without presumption that the consequence is good seeing euery Article is equally and alike a matter of faith My assumption I will make good by setting downe out of the Councill of Trent diuers Articles of the Romish saith which are false and erroneous and these they are 1 The sauing verity or truth taught by Christ and his Apostles is contained in written bookes or Scriptures and vnwritten traditions Concil Trident. Sess 4. decret de Canon Scripturae 2 The bookes of Iudith Tobit Ester chap. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16. Wisdome Ecclesiasticus Baruch Daniel chap. 3. 13 14. Macchabees 1 2. are canonicall scripture d. decret de scriptur 3 The whole bookes of Scripture and euery part of them as they are in the vulgar Latine edition are to be receiued for sacred and canonicall d. decret de scriptur 4 It is the office of the Church to iudge of the true sense or interpretation of the sacred or holy Scriptures d. sess 4. de edit vsu librorum sacrorum Sect. insuper 5 The Bishop of Rome is Gods Vicar on earth Sess 6. decret de reform cap. 1. and sess 14. de poenitentia cap. 7. 6 The Church of Rome is the mother and Mistris of all Churches Sess 7. de baptis can 3. and sess 13. de extrem vnct cap. 3. and sess 22. de sacrif missae cap. 8. 7 Grace bestowed in baptisme doth take away whatsoeuer hath the true proper nature of sin sess de pec orig can 5. 8 Concupiscence in the regenerate is not truely and properly sinne d. canon 5. 9 Man doth freely assent to and cooperate or worke together with Gods exciting and cooperating grace so that he can also reiect or refuse the same grace Sess 6. de iustif cap. 5. And dessent if he will can 4. 10 The onely formall cause of iustification is iustice or righteousnesse inhaerent d. sess de iustit cap. 7. 11 By keeping the commandements of the
Church a man doth encrease in the iustice which he receiued by the grace of Christ and is more iustified cap. 10. 12 The iust in some actions doe not sin venially cap. 11. 13 By euery mortall sinne a man falleth away from the grace of iustification which he had receiued cap. 14 15. and can 23. 14 By the Sacrament of poenance the grace of iustification which was lost is recouered cap. 14. 15 The good workes of a man that is iustified are his merits can 32. 16 The iust truely deserue euerlasting life by works wrought in God cap. 16. and can 32. 17 vnlesse a man faithfully and firmely beleeue the Catholick doctrine of the Council of Trent touching iustification he cannot be saued cap. 16. Sect. Post hanc 18 Some that are not predestinate receiue the grace of iustification can 17. 19 The Sacraments of the new Testament are neither more nor fewer then 7 to wit 1 Baptisme 2 Confirmation 3 The Lords Supper 4 Poenance 5 Extreame Vnction 6 Ordination 7 Matrimony and euery one of these is truely and properly a sacrament sess 7. de sacram in genere can 1. 20 Baptisme Confirmation and Ordination imprint in the soule a character that cannot be blotted out can 9. 21 The sacraments of the new Testament containe the thing they signifie and bestow it vpon them that hinder it not can 6. And vpon all as much as is required on Gods part can 7. And that by the worke wrought can 8. 22 After the consecration of the bread and wine in the Lords Supper our Lord Iesus Christ true God and man is contained truely really and substantially vnder the shewes of those sensible things sess 13. de sacram Eucharist cap. 1. 23 The holy Eucharist is to be reserued in the Chancell and caried honorably to the sicke cap. 6. 24 The tenth Commandement Thou shalt not couet is rent in sunder and made two by the Council of Trent sess 14. de poenitentia cap. 5. and can 7. 25 The time of Lent is holy and most acceptable sess 14. de poenitentia cap. 5. 26 No man that knowes himselfe to be guilty of mortall sinne how contrite soeuer he seeme to himselfe to be may come to the holy Eucharist without sacrament all confession going before d. sess 13. cap. 7. and can 11. that is Vntill hee haue confessed all and euery one of his mortall sinnes and also those circumstances which change the kind of the sinne sess 14. de sacram poenitentia c. 5. And that to a Priest in secret can 6. 7. 27 Power or authority was giuen to the Apostles and their lawfull successors to remit and retaine sinnes for the reconciling of such of the faithfull as fall after Baptisme sess 14. de sacram ent poenitentiae cap. 1. 28 It is vtterly false and differing from the word of God to say that the Lord God neuer remitteth the fault but with all he pardoneth the whole punishment d. sess 14. de poeâ—it cap. 8. can 12. sess 6. de iustif cap. 14. can 30. 29 Neither the Layâ—y nor any Clergy man that doth not consecrate is bound by any Commandement of God to receiue vnder both kinds sess 21. de sacram sub utraque specie cap. 1. 30 The Church hath decreed it for law that all the Laity and the Clergy that doe not consecrate should receiue vnder one kind onely d. sess cap. 5. 31 We may make satisfaction to God through Iesus Christ by temporall afflictions layed on vs by God and borne patiently by vs. sess 14 de sacram poenitent cap. 9. can 13. 32 The Priesthood was not to bee abolished by the death of Christ sess 22. de sacrif missae cap. 1. 33 Our Sauiour Christ by these words This doe in remembrance of me charged his Apostles and their successours to offer his body and blood vnder the signes of bread and wine d. cap. 1. 34 Water is to be mingled with wine in the Chalice that is to be offered d. sess cap. 7. 35 The names of Subdeacons Acolytes Exorcists Lectors and Doore-keepers and the proper office of euery one of these hath beene euer since the beginning of the Church sess 23. de sacram oâ—dinis cap. 2. and de reformat cap. 28. 36 Matrimony contracted not consummated is dissolued by the solemne profession of religion by either party sess 24. de sacram Matrimon can 6. 37 There is a Purgatory sess 25. decret de purgat 38 The soules which raigne with Christ do offer vp their praiers to God for men sess 25. decret de innocatione sanctorum 39 It is good profitable humbly to call vpon the saints forenamed and to fly to their prayer helpe and furtherance for the obtaining of benefits or blessings from God by his sonne Iesus Christ our Lord. d. decret de inuocat 40 Veneration and honor are due to the reliques of the Saints Sess 25. decret de inuocat venerat reliq sanctorum 41 The Images of Saints and other sacred monuments are not honored without profit c. The memories or monuments of the Saints are not frequented in vaine for the obtaining of their helpe d decret de venerat 42 The Images of Christ and the Virgin Mary and other Saints are to be had and retained especially in Churches and due honor and veneration is to be giuen them d. sess 25. de sacris Imaginum 43 The power of granting indulgences was committed by Christ to the Church and the vse of them is helpfull to Christian people d. sess 25. decret de indulgent CHAP. XII That many Articles of the faith of the Church of Rome are false and erroneous VPon the 43 propositions set downe out of the Councill of Trent in the former chapter I thus argue to proue the faith of the Church of Rome erroneous The aforesaid Articles or propositions are false and erroneous The aforesaid Articles or propositions are articles of the faith of the Church of Rome Therefore some of the Articles or propositions of the faith of the Church of Rome are false and erroneous Touching these propositions that they are articles of the saith of the Church of Rome it is euident because we finde them in the Council of Trent propounded to be beleeued of all Christians Are these all will some man say wherein we dissent from them and which we reiect as erroneous No there are many other and some of them of no small moment But I hold these onely needfull to be debated because the other so depend vpon these that if these bee false none of them can be true For example It is said article 36. that there is a purgatory if this cannot be proued then it is false that the Saints in Purgatery are holpen by the suffrages of the faithfull or sacrifice of the altar which yet is deliuered as an article of faith in that decree Againe it is affirmed article 32. that Christ appointed his Apostles and their successors to offer his body and blood
Church of Rome will easily be decided to the confirmation of the truth we maintaine and the ouerthrow of their false and erroneous faith I haue alreadie in another disputation in Latine discouered and proued the erroneousnesse of the faith of that Church in the seuenth and tenth Articles of the eleuenth Chapter before mentioned touching grace and iustification The like I will doe in the rest if it please God to giue me opportunitie and abilitie CHAP. XVI An answer to those things which the Church of Rome bringeth against the necessitie of separating from it ALthough the point propounded by me to be disputed is sufficiently proued by that which hath past and all men may see a necessitie of separating from the Church of Rome yet that the truth may be the more cleere and all mens consciences the better satisfied and fortified against the deuises of the Romish seducers I haue thought good to examine two principall motiues of theirs by which they mis-lead many that are simple or carelesse and in handling of them I will take the same course that hetherto I haue followed for the more plainnesse and certaintie in iudging what is true what false The former of the two is this Euery man must receiue his faith by the teaching of the Romish Church That it may appeare what force there is in this to conclud any thing for the Church of Rome against the question hetherto disputed I will apply it to the matter in question and answer to it accordingly They that must receiue their faith by the teaching of the Church of Rome must ioyne in faith with that Church Euery man must receiue his faith by the teaching of the Church of Rome Therefore euery man must ioyne in faith with the Church of Rome The proposition or first part of this reason I acknowledge for true because the teaching of the Church of Rome giueth being to the faith of that Church The assumption is false being grounded vpon that false foundation that The Pope of Rome is to feede the whole Church as Peters successour by determining what is matter of faith what is not But this appeared to be manifestly false chap. 8. and 10. wherein I propounded and handled the question The second deuise is commonly deliuered by way of question Where was your Church before Luther Now this question implyeth a negation as if they should say The Protestants Church was not before Luther This must be applied to the point in question after this sort Euery man must ioyne in faith either with the Church of Rome or with the Protestant Church But no man may ioyne in faith with the Protestants Church Therefore euery man must ioyne in faith with the Church of Rome Let the proposition passe for true to which we may iustly adde an assumption contrary to theirs No man may ioyne in faith with the Church of Rome and this assumption is alreadie made good by the foregoing disputation through this whole treatise which hath shewed that the faith of the Church of Rome is false and erroneous But to answer directly to their assumption we say it is vtterly false and the contrary to it euidently true that Euery man is bound to ioyne in faith with the Protestants Church For our faith is nothing else but Euery article or proposition to be assented to or beleeued as true vpon the authoritie of God the reuealer of them by his holy seruants the Prophets and Apostles The Articles which we assent to or beleeue in this sort are either expressely set downe in the Scriptures in direct words so that the sense of them cannot reasonably be doubted of or else gathered and concluded from such places by necessarie consequence so that if the one be true the other must needs be true also Whatsoeuer proposition is not of this nature we allow not for an article of faith how likely soeuer it seeme to be Now in this faith of ours there can be no danger seeing whatsoeuer proposition is plainely expressed in the Scripture or necessarily concluded from it is vndoubtedly the diuine reuelation which is the onely foundation of true faith More particularly I say touching the said assumption that it must be vnderstood of the Protestants faith so far forth as it differeth from the faith of the Church of Rome else by it they should disswade men from the faith of their owne Church Besides It is to be considered that this assumption supposeth that the Protestants haue a faith opposite to the faith of the Church of Rome Which is vtterly false All the opposition we make to them is by refusing their faith not by deliuering any of our owne and by ansswering to their arguments so that we hold the negatiue part of the contradiction in all points wherein we dissent from them although in some we adde a contrarie affirmatiue where the Scripture affirmeth that which they denie For example they say The Pope is Gods Vicar This we oppose by saying that The diuine reuelation doth not teach vs that the Pope is Gods Vicar Againe they deliuer this for an Article of faith that Concupiscence in the regenerate is not properly sinne To this we answer by way of opposition as to the former The diuine reuelation doth not say that Concupiscence in the regenerate is not properly sin Yea in this point we say further the Scripture saith it is properly sinne but our opposition to them in this point stands in this that the Scripture doth not say it is not properly sinne so that though there were no word to the contrarie of it in Scripture yet that proposâ—â—on of theirs were vtterly false By which it is manifest that in those things wherein we dissent from them we haue not articles of faith contrarie to the articles of faith which they propound but onely deny that Those they would thrust vpon vs are articles of faith If any man obiect as Stapleton and Wright doe that Our religion is negatiue we answer that if they meane we hold no articles of faith which are affirmatiue they charge vs vntruely for we consent with them in many affirmatiue articles of faith As for those points wherein we dissent from them it is no fault in vs to hold the negatiue for there is no other way for vs to oppose the errours they bring for matters of faith but by denying them to be matters of faith So theÌ„ this is that they auouch in the former assuÌ„ption No man may ioyne in faith with the Protestants Churches in those points wherein they dissent from the Faith of the Church of Rome The reason is because the faith of the Protestants in those points is false which they thus proue The true faith hath been professed so publikely in all ages since the Apostles that the professors of it from age to age may be named The Protestants faith hath not been so publikely professed in all ages since the Apostles that the professors of it from age to age may be named Therefore
the Protestants faith is not the true faith Before I answer directly to the parts of this Syllogisme I hold it needfull to note a few things concerning the reason in generall The first is that in this question wee inquire not of such professours onely as our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles were who deliuered the Articles of faith by way of reuelation but of such as haue beleeued and profest those articles as they haue beene gathered out of that which they reuealed Secondly it is worth the doing to consider a little way of gesse what the reason should be why the Papists are so loath to make tryall of their faith by the Scriptures and cry so loud for a catalogue or register of the names of such as haue from time to time beleeued as now we do This may well seeme strange to all men who vnderstand that the diuine reuelation is a most faithfull record and most certaine rule in all matters of faith so that whatsoeuer is agreeable thereto is a part of true faith whatsoeuer differeth from it either positiuely by affirming that which is not reuealed or negatiuely by denying that which is reuealed is vntrue and may not be taken for an article of faith As for a beadroll of names who knoweth not that it must needes be made out of humaine storie Wher as Diuine and infallible faith is not built upon deduction out of humane historie but diuene reuelation as is well obserued by the learned reuerend D. Featly And how can that be any foundation of diuine faith when it is not diuine authoritie nor free from errour but humane onely and subiect to errour yea among all kindes of humane authoritie of least credit Our of doubt then the Papists would neuer haue pursued this course so eagerly but for some especiall aduantage to theiâ— cause which in all likely hood is this that they saw well enough it was not for their religion to abide the tryall by Scripture in those articles of faith But what saith the Prophet Isaiah If they refuse the Law Isa 8. 20. 8 and the testimonie it is because there is no light in them Now in particular I say that the proposition is faultie diuers wayes First whereas it supposeth that the true faith hath beene in all ages in the word if they meane it hath been in the Scriptures in all ages we grant that they say is true but we adde that it is not to purpose for our question is not of faith as it is reuealed in the Scriptures but as it is gathered out of them and particularly beleeued and in this latter sence we denie that the true faith hath been in all ages For proofe of our deniall we alleage the experience of all ages by which it is manifest that some articles of faith haue been obseruÌ„ed and concluded out of the Scriptures from time to time and were not all known and beleeued for articles of saith at once I may bring for instance those great points debated and determined in the 4 first generall Councells For certainely if The god-head of our blessed Sauiour and the holy Ghost the distinction of the diuine and humaine natures of our Lord Iesus the Vnitie of his person had bin resolutely holden in the Church for articles of faith Arius Macedonius Eutyches and Nestorius would not haue durst to speake of them so wickedly and heretically as they did neither would the Church haue assembled Councells to aduise of the points but haue cast out those wretches as enemies of the faith The like might be said of Pelagius touching grace and of many other points of no small importance To come nearer to this our age there is no Papist of any reading and iudgement but will confesse that diuâ—rs propositions in tholate Councell of Trent which ended since I was borne were neuer receiued for articles of faith till they were neuer receiued for articles of faith till they were propounded for such by that Councell Secondly to grant them as much as they desire I yet except against their proposition as false because there is no necessitie that the being of true faith and such a profession thereof must alwayes goe together For such a publike profession of faith is neither of the essence of true faith as a reasonable soule is of the essence of a man nor proceedeth from the essence thereof as the faculty of speech doth from the essence of man neither are they lincked inseparably together by any ordianance of God as faith and iustification are The two former I am not out of doubt all Papists will grant If they fly to the last let them shew the record or deed wherein that coniunction of true faith and such a publike profession of it is inrolled and ingrossed Will they tell vs I know not what goodly matters of the visibilitie of the Church what is that but to beg the question For we denie that as no lesse vncertaine and vntrue then the other The assumption also is false which auoucheth so confidently that The professours of the Protestants faith in such things As they dissent from the Church of Rome in cannot be shewed in all ages from time to time since our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles If we call for a proofe of this they bid vs shew a beadroll of their names that were professours of our faith what if we cannot will they conclude thereupon that it cannot be done there may be a Catalogue though we cannot shew it Which cannot seeme strange to any man that shall consider that the Papists had for many yeares yea ages the whole sway command of Christendome and laboured all they could to make away if it had been possible not onely the writings but the memorie of all such as made any kind of opposition to their doctrine or proceedings Yet by the gracious mighty prouideÌ„ce of God it hath come to passe that the registers of their own bloudy persecutors haue by the worthy paines of som of our writers afforded the world a view of the names of many holy Martyrs confessours which from time to time haue refused as we do now to acknowledge many of the points wherein we dissent from the Church of Rome and it cannot be looked for that wee should shew that all of them haue been denied because many of them were first bred and hatched in the late Councell of Trent and were neuer articles of faith till then Wherefore to returne to my first conclusion since the faith of the Church of Rome is erroneous both in the foundation of it which is the authoritie of the Church and in many particular articles thereof I may boldly affirme that it is to be shunned as a perilous rocke whereon many haue suffered shipwrack of their eternall saluation CHAP. XVII That the faith of the Church of Rome is to refused vpon paine of damnation VVHen I first deliuered the proposition I intended to handle that there might be no ignorance by errour
to be found in the Councell of Trent Sess 4. which is the place I alledged ere-while It is committed singularly to Peter and his successors that they should teach all men what is to bee held concerning the doctrine of faith For the expounding whereof he saith a little after Sect. Si etiam that The Lord speakes of a singular office of teaching the whol Church by appointing and decreeing what is to be beleeued of all men And againe he saith that The Councels Popes execute the office of a Iudge committed Cap. 10. Sect. Respond aliud est to them by God What the Office of a Iudge is he shews in the same place a few lines before To explication after the manner of a Iudge there is authoritie required A Iudge deliuereth his sentence as a thing that necessarily must be followed To conclude hee tells vs in the same tenth chapter that Sect. Septiâ—um argumentum Christians who are sure the Church cannot erre in expounding the doctrine of faith are bound to receiue that doctrine and not to doubt whether those things be so or no. This matter Bellarmine makes plaine to all men by shewing the manner of this Office in this sort The Scripture for Cap. 10. Sect. Respondeâ— Christus It selfe needs not the witnes of men for it is most true in it selfe whether it be vnderstood or not but for our sake it needs the witnes of the Church because otherwise wee are not certaine what bookes are sacred and diuine nor what is the true and proper meaning In the same Chapter he giues vs to vnderstand what manner of foundation the testimony of the church is The word of God deliuered by the Prophets and Apostles is the first Sect. Respondeo Ad hoc foundation of our faith for therefore we beleeue whatsoeuer we beleeue because God hath reuealed it by his Prophets and Apostles But we adde that besides this first foundation there is another secondary foundation needfull to wit the testimony of the Church for we know not certainly what God hath reuealed but by the testimony of the Church Therefore our faith cleaueth to Christ the first truth reuealing those mysteries as to the first foundation It cleaues also to Peter that is to the Pope propounding and expounding these mysteries as to a secondary foundation And to make the matter yet more plaine he speakes thus in the same tenth chap. Sect. Respondeo verbum We are to know Sect. Respondeâ— verbum that a Proposition or article of faith is concluded in such a Syllogisme as this Whatsoeuer God hath reuealed in the Scriptures is true But this God hath reuealed in the Scriptures Therefore this is true Of the first of these Propositions no man makes any question The second is held for certaine truth amongst all Catholikes for it is grounded vpon the testimony of the Church that is the Councell or the Pope By which it appeares how little Mr. Fisher vnderstands the doctrine whereof he makes profession or how vnaduisedly he deliuereth his opinion For whereas Bellarmine will haue a two-fold foundation primary and secondary Mr. Fisher will acknowledge but one namely the authority of God speaking by the mouth of the church Christian beleefe saith hee ought onely to bee Treat of Faith in the Preface Sect of which point grounded vpon the authority of God speaking by the mouth of the Church We haue seene Bellarmines opinion of this matter which indeed agrees very well with the words of the Councell where it challengeth the office of interpreting the Scriptures For in that clayme it presumes that the diuine truth is already reuealed and that it is the first foundation of our faith to which the office of the Church is added which is but a secondary foundation Now by these places of the Counceâ—l and Bellarmine it is cleare that The foundation of the Romish faith is the authority of the Church This foundation of faith say wee is false and erroneous That our Sauiour Christ and his Prophets and Apostles are the foundation of faith wee beleeue and acknowledge and in this we and they agree That secondary foundation which lyeth in the authority and testimony of the church we refuse as false and naught and in this lyeth the true difference betwixt vs and them in this point as besides other De Script quaest 5. cap. 3. Apol. part 2. chap. 3. diuis 2. 11 Dr. Whitaker hath noted and the reuerend B. Iewell And this indeed is the main reason why we may not ioyn with them If they demand of vs VVhy we receiue not this authority of the church for a foundation of faith VVe answer Because we find no commission in the word of God wherby any such office is conueyed vnto it Neither deale wee herein any otherwise then reason and law direct men to do in the like case For is any man so destitute of reason or so ignorant of the law that he would receiue a man for L. Chancellour L. Treasurer or Lord Chiefe Iustice that were not able to shew any commission for the hauing and executing such an office And shall wee in a businesse of such importance that concernes our free-hold not onely for our present being of the church but for our future becomming heires of glory in heauen giue credit to men vpon their bare word without sight of their commission VVerfore doth our Lord and Sauiour so often in the Scriptures plead his authority from God warranted by the old Testament and vpbraid the Iewes with lightnesse and folly for being ready to receiue one that should come in his owne name If then the Papists would haue vs beleeue that their church is appointed to bee a foundation let them shew their warrant for it and we will accept it and build our faith vpon it But we looke that their commission should be very plain and certaine because it is of such a matter as no naturall reason can conceiue to be true For who would imagine or beleeue that the Apostles who had a little before receiued full power of order and iurisdiction ioyntly and equally with Peter as Bellarmine himselfe confesseth should suddenly De Rom. Poâ—t lib. 1. cap. 12. Sect. vt autem haue their authority abridged and be made subiect to Peter yea to his successors too as it fell out with S. Iohn to learne of them which wee bookes of Scripture and what was the meaning of the seuerall places or texts and what was true what false in Diuinity Besides the matter it selfe is of such importance by their doctrine that without the constant beliefe thereof and obedience according thereto there is no possibility of saluation For Whosoeuer saith Bellarmine will not be sed by Peter De verb. Dei lib 3. cap. 5. Sect. quartum that is learne of him or his successors as iudges and determiners what he is to take for matter of faith and what is the sense of the Scripture is none
of Christs sheepe CHAP. V. Of the course that is to be followed in this disputation I Haue shewed that the foundation of the saith of the Church of Rome is the authority and testimony of the church and haue refused that foundation as vnsound and erroneous It will now perhaps be looked for that I should proceed by prouing that it is false and counterfeit But I see no necessary or sufficient reason for this course and therefore haue rather chosen to follow thaâ— way in this disputation which the matter it selfe leads me to and in which it leads me The question betwixt the church of Rome and vs is this Whether the articles or propositions to which they require our assent as to certaine truths reuealed by God and commanded of him to be beleeued vpon perill of damnation if we do not assent and beleeue be reuealed and commanded by God or no as Bellarmine himselfe putteth it in the assumption of his Syllâ—gisme set down by me Chap. 3. num 9. The church of Rome saith they are and call for obedience thereto accordingly We deny that they are reuealed and enioynâ—d by God and therefore refuse to giue assent to them Who seeth not that the very nature of this difference betwixt vs layeth vpon them a necessity of prouing that those points or articles are propounded by God to be beleeued as matters of faith reuealed by him This made the reuerend and learned B. Iewell in his Apology 3 B. Iewell Apol. part 1. chap. 10. diuis 1. tell the Doctors of the Romish church that It was their part to prooue clearly and truly that the Romish Church is the true and right instructed Church of God And in his second answer to Dr. Cole lett D D. E E. to affirme that It was vnreasonable for that Dr to call for the proofes of our doctrine And therefore as it appeares in that answer lett O. he stands vpon the negatiue as he speakes and putteth the Papists to their proofes because they presse vs to receiue those points for articles of faith This course I haue holden in those bookes that I haue formerly published in this kind of writing this I meane to hold now and hereafter if it please God to afford me opportunity to goe forward in the defence of his truth Yet for their better satisfaction and clearer manifesting of the truth I will alwaies giue some reason of my denying the propositions I refuse howsoeuer it were enough for an answer to deny that which of it selfe is not apparantly true And thus much of the course of this disputation I returne now to the disputation it selfe The maine ground for the proofe of the authority of the church in this kind is taken by Bellarmine out of Iohn 21. 15 16 17. Ioh. 21. 15 16. De verbo dei lib. 3. cap. 5. Sect. quartum testimonium seqq Iesus said to Simon Peter Simon the sonne of Ionas louest thou mee more then these He said yea Lord thou knowest that I loue thee He said vnto him Feed my sheepe c. From these words Bellarmine disputeth thus Feeding of Christs sheepe Ioh. 21. 15. is a singular office of teaching the whole Church by determining and iudging what is to bee beleeued of all men To Peter and his successours the feeding of Christs sheepe is committed Ioh. 21. Therefore to Peter and his successors a singular office of teaching the whole Church by iudging and determining what is to be beleeued of all men is committed Vpon this conclusion Bellarmine inferreth that he that will not be thus taught by Peter is none of Christs sheepe Many weighty points are hudled vp together in this Syllogisme worthy of serious consideration and debating In the Proposition or first part these foure things are comprised 1. In those words Ioh. 21. 15. a singular Office is contained 2 Feeding there signifieth teaching 3 Feeding Christs sheepe is teaching the whole Church 4 Teaching the whole church is by way of determining what is to be beleeued of all men All these are contained in the Proposition and euery one of them so necessarily required to the truth thereof that if any one of them bee vntrue the Proposition of necessity must be false How then shall the conclusion be an article of faith as the Papists will haue it I will therfore examine euery one of them seuerally and then goe forward to consider of the Assumption CHAP. 6. Of the two former points of the foure THE first of the foure points to be discussed is this In the words rehearsed Ioh. 21. 15. a singular office is appointed That Bellarmine speakes of a singular Office the words themselues shew that hee must needs bee vnderstood of appointing such an office not of disposing of one already appointed it is manifest as well because there was no office yet ordained but that which was common to Peter with the rest of the Apostles and therefore not singular as also for that it will not serue Bellarmines turne to speake of an office common to all the Apostles since hee endeauors to settle such an office vpon Peter as was proper and peculiar to him and such as no other Apostle euer had This may farther appeare by another place in Bellarmine where he saith that that very thing is really giuen Iohn 21. 15. which was promised Mat 16. 19. I will giue thee the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen and as he there saith giuen to the same Simon to whom Bellar. de Rom. Pont. lib. 1. cap. 14. Sect. Ac primum cap. 12. Sect Et propterea before it was promised hee saith that the keyes were promised Math. 16. 19. and â—eliuered Iohn 21. 15 16 17. Thus haue we the first point in Bellarmines proposition now let vs try the truth of it For our parts we vtterly reiect it as false because wee are out of doubt it cannot any way bee soundly proued And we are the rather so perswaded because Bellarmine hath not once attempted to proue it although hee could not chose but see that there was necessity of prouing it for it is not so plaine and manifest in it selfe that it needs no proofe and the conclusion drawne out of it is an Article of their faith yea such an article as like Atlas beareth the waight of the whole body of their faith Besides Bellarmine knew well enough that we deny it to be true For hee brings Luthers words to that purpose Martin Luther saith Bellarmine in his booke de potestate Papae affirmes that by the word Feed Iohn 21. there is no new power giuen but only the duty of louing Bellar. de Rom. Pont. la. ca. 15. Sect. Iam vero and teaching enioyned Peter who was made an Apostle before Neither doth the text it selfe nor any other place of Scripture for ought they say or we see afford vs any proofe thereof If there bee any thing in the text for their reliefe it is in that Peter is commanded to feed But
vnder the signes of bread and wine If there bee no such commandement of our Sauiours then 1 There is no Masse 2 The vertue of the bloody sacrifice is not applyed by the sacrifice of the Masse 3 The sacrifice of the Masse is not truely propitiatory All which are propounded for Articles of saith by the forenamed Councill sess 22. de sacrificio Messae I might say the like of many other points but these may suffice It remaineth that I proue the proposition which must be done by handling the points seuerally First therefore I thus begin with the first The sauing truth or verity taught by Christ and his Apostles Concil Trid. Sess 4. decret de Can. Script is contained saith the Councill in written bookes or in the Scriptures or in vnwritten traditions In this proposition or Article wee must vnderstand that the Scriptures and traditions are made diuers parts of that record wherein the sauing truth is contained so that neither of these parts containeth all but the one some the other some which appeareth plainly by the Council it selfe where describing Traditions it saith that They are not writen that They were receiued by word of mouth from the Apostles and were deliuered to them either by our Sauiour or by his spirit and haue beene so conueyed from hand to hand to the present Church And indeed if this were not the Councils meaning they said nothing at all against vs who make no question but that the ChristiaÌ„s which liued presently after the Apostles did truely gather diuers points out of the Scriptures which haue worthily beene receiued and maintained from time to time Such for instances were these points that our Lord Iesus is true God that the holy Ghost is true God that our Sauiour Christ consisteth of two distinct natures that He is but one person not two These points the Christians rightly drew out of the Scriptures For they bee not expressed there in so many words and these were acknowledged to bee Articles of faith by the foure first generall Councils against Arius Macedonius Eutiches and Nestorius Of this kind there are many traditions in the Church and will daily be more as it shall please God to blesse the labors of his seruants in the reading vnderstanding of the Scriptures Of these we dispute not but onely of such as are not comprised in the Scriptures It would also bee obserued that the Councill saith not barely and simply truth but sauing truth which in all likelihood was put into the decree because we grant that some things concerning rites and ceremonies were deliuered by Bellar de verbo Dei non scripto l. 4 c 3. Sect Secundo dissidemus our Lord or his Apostles which are not recorded in the Scriptures as Bellarmine confesseth Lastly whereas the Councill saith the sauing truth taught by Christ and his Apostles wee must inquire whether they meane vniuersally and wholly whatsoeuer our Sauiour and his Apostles taught not any one sentence excepted or onely so much as was intended for the perpetuall vse of the Church That it meaneth absolutely all sauing truth so taught it may be probably gathered out of the very words of the Councill For it saith that The preaching of Christ and his Apostles is the fountaine of all sauing truth and by and by addeth which truth is contained in written bookes and vnwritten traditions which is all one as if the Councill should haue said in plaine termes All sauing truth taught by Christ and his Apostles is contained in written books and vnwritten traditions Thus haue we the meaning of the Councill now that it may appeare what is true in it what false I will draw it into seuerall propositions namely these 3. 1 All sauing truth taught by Christ and his Apostles is recorded for future ages 2 Some sauing truth is contained in written bookes 3 Some sauing truth is comprehended in vnwritten traditions The two latter propositions viz. the second and third are manifestly in tâ—at article of the Councell the first of the three is necessarily implyed For if some things taught by them remaine not to posterity then all sauing truth so taught is not to be found in the Scripture and tradition because some of it is not at all recorded In the second proposition that Some truth taught by Christ and his Apostles is contained in the Scripture wee wholly agree with them and say farther in particular that All such truths are containd therein as the Lord appointed for the saluation of the Elect in all ages And this is the meaning of our Diuines when they say that All things necessary to saluation are comprehended in the Scriptures Which is manifest by Dr. Reynolds for D. Reynolds proface to his sixe conclusions at conclusion first D Whitaker de script q. 6. c. 6. saying that The Lord teacheth the Church all things necessary to saluation he expoundeth necessary to saluation thus which lead the faithfull to saluation and life And Dr. Whitaker propounding our opinion of the same matter in the same manner interpreteth necessary to saluation in these words by the way of life signifying thereby that Those things are necessary to saluation which teach vs the way to euerlasting life Reuerend B. Iewell speakes to the same purpose B. Iewells Apol. part .. 2. c. 9. diuis 1. that The Scriptures doe fully comprehend all things whatsoeuer bee needfull for our health and that they be the very might and strength of God to attaine to saluation Whereby it is manifest that Bellarmine dealt falsly and De verbo Dei non scripte l. 4. l. 3. Sect. Controversia deceitfully when he propounded the question The controversie saith he betwixt vs and the Heretickes is that we say The whole doctrine necessary to faith and manners is not contained in the Scriptures expresly and therefore besides the written word of God there is also an vnwritten word of God required that is to say Diuine and Apostolicall traditions Wherefore I will leaue Bellarmine with his frauds and debate the point as it is deliuered in the Councell of Trent For the first that All sauing truth taught by Christ and his Apostles is recorded for future ages Bellarmine bringeth no proofe and yet he could not choose but see that there is no necessity in the point it selfe why we should take it for true For it might well be that our Sauiour and his Apostles taught some things which tended to the saluation of some particular men not of all men and therfore might be left vnrecorded without any losse or damage to the Church Therefore we may iustly call for proofe of a point so vncertaine that is made by Bellarmine a matter of faith The third proposition at numb 5. is that Some sauing truth is comprehended in tradition For the better vnderstanding and cleering whereof wee are first to learne what vnwritten traditions are Which the Councell of Trent teacheth vs. Vnwritten traditions are things endicted by our
Concil Trident. Sess 4. decret de canon script Sauiour by word of mouth or by the holy Ghost and kept in the Church by continuall succession We may content our selues with this description without seeking any explication out of Bellarmine or any other because Bellarmines definition that A tradition is a doctrine not written by the first author thereof is so far from making the meaning of the Councell of Trent plaine that indeed it doth rather more obscure Bellarm. de verb. Deâ—l 4. c. 2. Sect. Vocatur it The Councell setteth downe no distribution of traditions but this that some of them concerne faith some manners But Bellarmine wearieth himselfe and his Reader with a number of distribâ—â—ions which as I said of his description are of no vse but to darken the question Tradition being thus vnderstood I say that third proposition is false and the contradictory thereof true No sauing truth taught by Christ or his Apostles is contained in vnwritten traditions which may thus appeare If no part of the Scripture refer vs to tradition for some part of Gods word not contained in the said Scriptures then haue we no reason to seeke for any part thereof in tradition For the Scriptures doe send vs to the scriptures for the knowledge of sauing truth Ioh. 5. 39. Search the Scriptures for in them ye thinke to haue eternall life And the Apostle Paul 2 Tim. 3. 15. saith that The 2 Tim. 3. 15. Scripture is able to make vs wise to saluatioÌ„ And wold not the scripture trow we haue sent vs to tradition for supply of that which was wanting in it if there had beene any supply to be had therein For it was as easie and as orderly for the Scripture to referre vs to tradition as to it selfe and as well beseeming the wisdome and prouidence of God to haue sent vs to both parts of his word by the Scriptures as to the one of them yea it was a great deale more needfull For no man could doubt but he was to haue recourse to the Scriptures because they were knowne to be the word of God But who could haue imagined that the Lord God teaching vs so plentifully in the Scriptures would leaue out some part of the sauing truth and not so much as giue vs any inkling thereof nor direct vs where we might finde it But they tell vs the Scripture doth put vs ouer for some of the diuine truth to vnwritten traditions Let vs see and examine the places that are brought to this purpose by Bellarmine Bellarm. de verb. Dei non scripto l. 4. c. 5. Sect. Ac primum who made choise of the best places that had beene or could be alledged in this matter The first wherof is thus to be concluded Those things which our Sauiour spake of Ioh. 16. 12. and Ioh. 16. 12. and 21. 25. 21. 25. Act. 1. 3. are comprehended in tradition For they are not written and it is not credible that the Apostles which heard them did not deliuer them to the Church Surely they were neither so enuious that they would not nor so forgetfull that they could not But those things which he spake in those places were sauing truths Therefore some sauing truths taught by Christ or his Apostles are contained in tradition Ere I answer to this argument particularly I must note in general that euery proposition of euery argument brought in this question must be certainly and euidently true because the point concluded is an article of faith which must be either expresly set downe by the holy Ghost or collected from the word of God by manifest and necessary consequence Therefore if we finde any proposition in any argument that is not in such sort true the conclusion cannot be an Article of faith because of those premises but is only at the most probable as they are Particularly I say of this argument that no Article of faith can bee concluded by it because the proposition or Maior with the proofe of it are at the most but probable as the examining of the reason will shew Either our Sauiors speeches theâ—e mentioned are contained in tradition or else they remaine not at all to posterity But they remaine to posterity for the Apostles did not omit the recording of them since they were neither enuious nor forgetfull Therefore our Sauiours speeches there mentioned are contained in tradition First this argument presumeth that whatsoeuer our Sauiour spake was some way or other committed to posterity And this was the first proposition in this doctrine of the Council denied by vs n. 5. 7. therfore Bellar. doth but play the sophister by begging the question proueth nothing Secondly I answer that if I should grant him that he beggeth yet his pâ—oposition would be false For the disiunction is nought What if I say those speeches of our Sauiour neither perished nor remaine in tradition but are recorded in some part of the Apostles writings in the new TestimeÌ„â— For since our Sauior promised Ioh. 16. 13. to send them his spirit which should lead them into all truth and Ioh. 14. 26 bring to their remembrance all things which he had told theÌ„ and performed what he promised Acts 2. 3. It is more then likely that they did coÌ„mend the things to posterity which he caused theÌ„ to remember for why else were they brought to their remembrance But wee find no other course that euâ—r they tooke to deliuer the Gospell to posterity but writing Why then should these points be kept vnwritten Suâ—ely they are neither greater mysteries nor smaller matters then some that are written The proposition then is either false or doubtfull and the assumption little better For how can Bellarmine tell whether those matters be recorded in any of the Apostles writings or no vnlesse he know what they were as he will not for very shame say he doth But If we doubt of it he would make vs beleeue wee accuse the Apostles of envie or negligence God forbid We will grant him any thing almost rather then lay such an imputation upon those glorious instruments of our salvation We haue a better way to answer then so namely that Bellarmine commeth short of his reckonig either of negligence or enuy What needeth that It may well be that they did not record every one of our Saviour speeches because they had no commission to leaue them on record and they were to doe according to their comission being to deliver the word of God as they were inspired by the holy Ghost not to set downe every thing they could remember as men doe that follow their owne naturall discretion Neither can Bellarmine any way make good the assumption of the principall Syllogisme negatiue that Those things which our Lord spake of in those places were saving truths except he can certainely tell what they were CHAP. XIII Of Bellarmines second and third Arguments to proue vnwritten traditions BEllarmines second argument in the place aboue named
must be thus ordered a Bellar. de verbo Dei non script lib. 4. cap. 5. sect Secundum testâ— monâ—im The ordinances which the Apostle speaketh of 1. Cor. 11. 2 are not written for they concerne the manner of praying and receiuing the Sacraments and these we find not written any where The ordinances which the Apostle there speaketh of are sauing truths for he commendeth the Corinthians for keeping them Therefore some sauing truths are contained in vnwritten tradition The proposition taketh it for granted that whatsoeuer the Apostles taught is committed to posteritie But this we denie as I shewed cap. 12. n. 7. How then shall this argument proue that the conclusion is an article of faith Well admit it were true yet is the proposition vncertaine as the proofe sheweth For out of doubt it is noâ— manifest of it selfe The proofe lieth thus Whatsoeuer was deliuered to the Apostles and is not found written any where that is kept in vnwritten tradition The ordinances the Apostle speaketh of were deliuered by him and are not found written any where Therefore the ordinances the Apostle speaketh of are kept in vnwritten tradition The proposition of this Syllogisme is vntrue For although it be not found yet it may be written diuers things are contained in the Scriptures which are not knowne to be there contained but may in time be manifested as I signified cap. 11. n. 2. Now concerning the principall assumption n. 1. The ordinances which c. I answer that it is neither cleere in it selfe nor proued by Bellarmine For euery precept of the Apostle the keeping whereof deserueth commendation it is not therefore a sauing truth Obedience to any commandement or aduise of an Apostle touching but a rite or ceremony yea the smallest matter that can be imagined though it be no sauing truth deserueth due coÌ„mendation and Bellermin hath nothing else in this disputation that may be applied to the proofe of that point But say we grant Bellarmine that the precepts signified verse 2. are sauing truths as we may doe with great likely hood vnderstanding thereby the doctrine deliuered in the former part of the Epistle to that 11. Chapter What will it auaile him seeing the assumption then will conuince the proposition of falsehood because the precept is there written Therefore this second argument is to as small purpose as the former I come to the third argument in the same place Those things which the Apostle disposed 1. Cor. 11. 34. Bellar. de verbo Dei non scripto lib. 4. cap. 5. sect alteram quastioâ—em are contained in tradition for we find them not written any where But the things he there disposed were sauing truth Therefore some sauing truth is contained in tradition Both the faults of the former proposition are in this also first that he taketh it for granted that whatsoeuer the Apostles taught is recorded which we alwaies denie Secondly that he saith confidently these things are not written and yet knowes not what they are so that he may find them and not know of it Let vs passe by the proposition yet will Bellarmine come short of his conclusion because the assumption is full of doubt for how will he be able to proue that the things disposed by the Apostle were sauing truth He confesseth that some of them were matters belonging to rits ceremonies but he telleh vs with all that Catholiks worthily thinke that he deliuered also some greater matters concerning the ordination of Ministers the sacrifice of the Alter and the matter and forme of other Sacraments and hee addeth that The hereticks cannot disproue them That we may the better iudge of these worthy thoughts of Bellarmins Catholickes we will set his reason in frame Whatsoeuer Catholickes worthily thinke and hereticks cannot disproue that is to be holder for true But that the Apostles disposed of those weightie matters Catholickes worthily thinke and the hereticks cannot disproue Therefore that the Apostles disposed of those weightie matters it is to be holden for truth A stout argument and well worthy such Catholickes who seeth not the absurditie of the maior Truth is not to be measured by their affirmation or conceite and our vnablenesse to disproue but by the adaequation or full agreement of the thing and our apprehension of it For a man then onely speaketh the truth of a thing when hee speaketh as the thing is indeede But the assumption presumeth we cannot disproue it That were hard Why should not our saying we thinke he did not meane those matters be as good a disproofe of it as their saying you thinke he did is a proofe Such answers are good enough for such arguments But surely me thinketh we may bring some likelyhood of reason for our opinion For who would imagine that the Apostle would spend so many lines as he doth in this chapter about matters of so small importance as long haire and bare heads which were not for the perpetuall practise of the Church as experience sheweth and put off matters of so great weight till his comming to them which might haue been neuer And that they may not say we conjecture this without any likelihood as Bellarmins Catholiks worthily doe let them heare what Chrysostome saith upon the place He Chrysost Homil. 28. ad 1. Cor. 11. meaneth either some other things or the same that he hath mentioned For seeing it was likely that they would bring other cases and he could not redresse althings by letters Let those things saith he that I haue admonished you of be obserued and if any other thing need redresse let is be referred till my comming He speaketh as I said either of the same thing or some matter not greatly urgent He speaketh saith Theophilact of some other faults of Theophilact ad 1. Cor. 11. theirs which had need of correcting or of some which he had mentioned It is likely saith he that some men are praparing to defend themselues against that which I haue said but in the meane time let thom obserue that I haue charged them to keepe ad 1. Cor 11. When he had written of those things that were more necessary he reserueth the rest for his praesence with them The Interlinear glosse expoundeth it thus Other things concerning the Sacrament I will order when I come but you might not be without direction for those things that I haue deliuered ad 1. Cor. 11. Other things saith Lombard which perteine to order in the same Sacrament I will order when I come ad 1. Cor. 11. Other things which are not of so great danger I will order â—â—resence Thomas ad 1. Cor. 11. CHAP. XIIII Of some other Arguments of Bellarmine to the same purpose LET vs see if Bellarmines fourth reason be any better then the former That which the Apostle commanded the Thessalonians to Bellar. ubi supra Sect. tertium keepe 2. Thess 2. 15. is contained in tradition for it was not written but deliuered by word of mouth
That which the Apostle commanded the Thessalouians to keepe was a sauing faith Therefore some sauing truth is contained in tradition There is no end of Bellarmines begging We must deny as before that whatsoeuer the Apostles taught is recorded and come to posteritie To the proposition I answer in particular that being vnderstood of that time when the Apostle writ that Epistle it is true he had then deliuered some things by word of mouth and not written them and those hee commandeth them to keepe But what proofe can Bellarmine make that those things were not written afterwards The assumption is not easily to be proued that those things were sauing truth Why doth not Bellarmine tell vs what they were Me thinks he dareth not so much as guesse at them otherwise he would let vs know at the least what his Catholickes worthily take them to be Would any man dally thus in a matter of faith to bee beleeued vpon paine of damnation Bellarmine will make amends for the want of weight in his reasons by the number of them and he propoundeth his fift thus to bee deliuered Bellar. ubi supra sect quaitam That which was committed to Timothy 1. Tim. 6. 20. and 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2. is contained in tradition That which was there committed to Timothy is a sauing 1. Tim. 6. 20. 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2. truth Therefore some sauing truth is contained in tradition Here he beggeth againe as before but wee cannot grant that whatsoeuer the Apostles preached is remaining vpon record to posteritie If that were granted yet should I thinke the proposition no sufficient warrant for an Article of faith Therefore Bellarmine offereth proofe of it on this maner That which Timothy had heard of Saint Paul 1. Tim. 6. 20. and 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2 and was to deliuer to faithfull men able to teach other also that is contained in tradition But that which was committed to Timothy 1. Tim. 6. 20. and 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2 he had heard of Saint Paul and was to deliuer to faithfull men able to teach other also Therefore that which was committed to Timothy 1. Tim. 6. 20. and 2. Tim. 2. 1. 2 is contained in tradition Least wee should deny the first part or Proposition of this Syllogisme because the things so delivered and given in charge by the Apostle might be matter for the present vse of the Church and such as needed not to be alwayes knowne Bellarmine telleth us that by those things so heard and so to be committed the vnderstanding of the sense of the scriptures and other doctrine is signified so that the whole force of his Argument lyeth in this interpretation which he never offereth to proue Therefore vnlesse we will take his bare word for proofe wee are as farre to seeke as we were before Now that we haue no reason to doe so I thinke it may appeare by those things which I will now propound to the consideration of all reasonable men First then I would know oâ— Bellarmine whether by Vnderstanding of the sense he meane generall rules for the vnderstanding of it or the sense of particular places Secondly I demaund whether he deliuered to him the sense oâ— euery place of Scripture or of some onely Whether he answer this or that I aske thirdly what is become of those rules and expositions How will he proue to vs that they haue beene continued from time to time till now If they haue not beene continued what haue wee to do with them who dispute onely of such traditions as are in the possession and vse of the present Church Fourthly is it likely euen in Bellarmines iudgement that Saint Paul would take vpon him to instruct Timothy in the sense of any place of Scripture when as the office of interpreting the Scripture is committed by the Councell of Trent to the Church that is as Bellarmine expoundeth it to Peter and his successours Did he meane ambitiously to vsurpe Peters office or to send him to Peter or his successours to learne of them whether the interpretation he had giuen were true or no. Touching the second part of the first Syllogisme that Those thinges which were committed to Timothy were sauing truths Bellarmine saith nothing which argueth that he knew not what to say What reason haue we then to imagine that they were sauing truths or that this argument concludeth any thing for the doctrine of the Councell of Trent concering traditions There is yet one argument more in the same fift chapter thus to be concluded Those things which Iohn had to write 2. Ioh. 11 and Bellar. ubi supra Sect. ultimum testimonium 3. Ioh. 14. are contained in tradition for he saith he would not write them But those things which he had then to write were sauing truths taught by the Apostles Therefore some sauing truths taught by the Apostles are contained in tradition I am inforced here also to repeate my former answer that Bellaâ—mine still takes it for granted that whatsoeuer the Apostles taught is continued to posteritie which we denie and no papist can proue His assumption or minor is to weake to beare vp the weight of an Article of faith vnlesse he be able to â—â—ll 〈◊〉 certainly what the things were which the Apostle would not write and to whom hee did or at the least that hee did afterward deliuer them to some body from whom the Church hath receiued them Till we know what they were how shall we be sure they were part of the sauing truth CHAP. XV. Of two other arguments of Bellarmine VVEE haue done with the fift Chapter and are now to examine two arguments set downe chap. 4 the former I frame thus That there are Scriptures that these we haue he they is â— Bellar de verbo Dei non scripto cap. 4 Sect. quarto quinto Soxio contained in tradition For we cannot find them in the Scriptures But that there are Scriptures that these wee haue are they is part of sauing truth taught by Christ and his Apostles Therefore some sauing truthes taught by Christ and his Apostles are contained in tradition It hath appeared by my answer to Bellarmines arguments that he can find no place of Scripture that sendeth vs to tradition for any part of sauing truth taught by our Lord or his Apostles Wee might therefore conclude that there are no such traditions without troubling our selues any further But that we may dit vp the mouths of the Papists wee will bestow a little time and paines in these arguments If there had beene no more intended by the Councell of Trent in the decree touching tradition but to signifie that these three points are contained in tradition the danger had not beene great for then both the number and the particulars had been determined but the Papists by vertue of that Article take authoritie to thrust what they list vpon the Church and warrant it by tradition Thus much to the argument in generall Particularly I answer
that the first part of it and the proofe thereof suppose that those two propositions There are Scriptures These we haue be they are formally that is expresly contained either in the Scriptures or tradition But this say we is false they are contained formally in neither where then shall we finde them Radically and originally in the Scriptures themselues which of themselues afford iust occasion to all men to conceiue both that There are Scriptures and that These are they They are contained formally in the apprehension of euery mans vnderstanding that beleeueth them and that this beleife is diuine faith not humane coniecture it appeareth because it is wrought in men by a speciall prouidence of God which perswadeth and draweth men to acknowledge the things to be as they are in themselues and is farther grounded vpon the diuine authoritie vertually affirming that they are both true indeed And yet wee make not a priuate spirit the ground or rule of our faith or the iudge to determine what is matter of faith what is not As Bellarmine slandereth vs and Bellar de verbo Dei non scripto lib. 3. cap. 5. Sect. Norum cap. 9. sect quod 〈◊〉 after him Mr. Fâ—sher and other But wee onely attribute to that speciall prouidence the office of in lightening and mouing the vnderstanding in lightened to giue assent to the bookes of Scripture that they are the word of God as indeed and truth they are Now to this assent it moueth vs by many reasons fit and effectuall for such a worke as namely by the continuall consent and testimonie of the Church by the matter deliuered in the bookes them selues by the stile or maner of deliuering it and the like as diuers of our diuines haue shewed at large and that this assent of ours is a true faith it is very manifest because it conceiueth of the thing deliuered as in truth it is which is the very rule of truth and wherein the nature of truth consisteth The assumption is false The last proposition is not part of sauing truth taught by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles Neither all nor any of the Apostles for ought appeareth in the word did euer set downe a Catalogue of the Bookes of the New or Old Testament neither indeede was it possible for any of them to doe it but S. Iohn who out liued them all and writt after them all As for S. Iohn he neither might nor could doe it because that was onely Peters office or his successors to declare which were Scriptures and which were not as we learned out of Bellar. Chap. 3. 11. 9. Pâ—â—ar ubi supra sect dâ—nique The second and last argument lieth thus This Proposition There is no word of God besides that which is written is contained in tradition not written This proposition is a sauing truth taught by Christ and his Apostles Therefore some sauing truth taught by Christ and his Apostles is contained in tradition not written First it is to be considered that Bellarmine bringeth this assumption as a proposition of ours and from thence concludeth for the Church of Rome against vs For if hee brought it as his owne and acknowledged by him for true he should thereby gaine say the Councell of Trent affirming that There is some part of the word of God contained in tradition which is not to be found in the Scriptures But in this Bellarmine doth vs wrong for although we say that there is no word of God but that which is contained in the Scriptures as a Rellar de verbo Dei lib. 4. cap. 3. Sect. adipsi Bellarmin alleageth out of b Caluin Instit lib 4. cap. 8. â— 8. Caluin yet we say uot that this proposition is a sauing truth taught by Christ his Apostles neither indeed need we say so For by that propositioÌ„ we only deny that which the CouÌ„cell affirmeth and set it downe as a contradictory thereto and Bellarmine himselfe in the place for enamed bringeth it to the same end The reason of our deniall is that the Scripture doth no where send vs to tradition nor hath any word to that purpose as hath appeared in the former disputation And this reason is very sufficient because nothing is to be receiued for an Article of faith but that which is taught in the word of God The like answer is to be made to the proposition If it be true in Bellarmines iudgement then the doctrine of the Church of Rome in his iudgement is salfe For the Councell of Tâ—ent teacheth that There is some word of God contained in tradition but this proposition affirmes that There is no word of God besides that which is written If Bellarmine would father it vpon vs he accuseth vs falsly For we neuer saiâ— nor thought that that proposition was contained in tradition but perhaps he thinketh it will follow vpon that wee say but in so thinking hee thinkes idly for we doe no more hereby but denie that which they say and neither do nor neede affirme that it is contained either in the Scriptures or in tradition It is enough for vs in matter of faith to refuse whatsoeuer is not taught in the Scriptures But it may be said that this proposition There is no word of God besides that which is written is either true or false we grant it because it is certainely true that in euerie contradiction properly so called the one proposition is true the other false What of this It will farder be said If it be false then the contradictory to it which we hold is true We grant this too what more If this be true it is contained either in the Scripture or in tradition This we denie It may be true and yet contained in neither of them For the truth of this proposition is not positiue whereby one thing is affirmed of or ioyned to another but negatiue by which one thing is denied of or seuered from another Now propositions of this kinde are then true when the things comprehended in them are indeed seuered the one from the other for then the proposition speaketh of the thing as it is Therefore it is enough to make this negatiue proposition true that the Scripture is silent in that which they affirme and doth not ioyne Heb. 1. 5. them together as they doe And this is the ground of those negatiue disputations wee find in the Scriptures P. Iewels answ to Dâ— Coles second 〈◊〉 let O. P. especially To which of the Angells said be c. He that desireth to see more of this may reade the reuerend Bishop Iewel in his answer to Dr. Cole I should now goe on according to the order followed in the Councell of Trent to examine the rest of the Articles set downe by me chap. 11. num 3. But for this time I thinke it enough that I haue debated these two questions because if these proue false as I trust they haue done all the other differences betwixt vs and the